What Are You Going To Do When You Have an “Oh Crap” Moment?
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of The George Campbell Show on the Ramsey Network YouTube show. You want to be sure and check that out. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. Sarah is in Seattle to start this hour. Hi, Sarah. How are you?

Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

I'm looking for some investment advice. So I'm a 50-year-old homeschooling mom. I've been homeschooling for about 20 years, and we've been on a single income for a long time and budgeting and living within our means. But recently, about four or five years ago, I used to work for a major tech giant, and I had some stocks that were underwater, so I

didn't think much about it and totally forgot I even had them and lo and behold, a couple of years ago, it just went crazy. And so now all of a sudden I have a great amount of net worth, I guess. Um, but when I log in and see my account, I have up to about 18 million right now, but I don't know what to do with it. And it's all tied up in one stock, which makes me a little nervous. And, um,

And, you know, I've never done a whole lot of online investing or anything like that. So I wanted to see if you have some advice for me. Wow, that's awesome.

I hate it when I log into my account and there's $18 million in there. Way to go! Were you shocked? Like, did you wake up one day and log in and go, oh my gosh, are those zeros real? No, you saw it coming. You knew. Well, no, I didn't. My husband actually said, hey, did you see what happened to your company? I'm like, no, because I was homeschooling. I was doing my normal things, and I actually didn't even know where my stock was.

So I had to log into a couple of different companies and say, well, I hope my account is there still. So, yeah. So I found it eventually, and it's gone crazy still. Okay. Wow. So you've held this for how long? 20 years. And when you got it, it was an employee benefit, so your cost basis is zero? Yeah.

I remember paying around $14 maybe when I left. I left when my son was, when I was pregnant. It was my first time. What's it trading for now per share?

I think it's 120-something, but it's been split four, and then it's been split 10, I guess. Oh, a lot of stock splits. Yeah, when I left, it was only three-something. I got you. So it was completely underwater, and I just filed it away somewhere, you know. You just forgot about it. Okay. Yeah, totally. That strategy worked for you. It's not one I recommend, but I'm going with it. Okay. Hey, good job. So what is your current household income?

So we're still on single income, about $250-ish. Okay. So my husband also works for another tech giant. You need, okay, if your household income is over $400, your capital gains rate is 20%. If it's under $400, it's 15%.

Oh, okay. Okay. So if you were to cash out enough of this that it took you up over 400, it's going to run your rate up, I think. Okay.

So what you need is much better detailed advice, but I want you to sit down. I want you and your husband, who are both smart people, to learn exactly what your rates do as you move this around. It's very, very scary and unwise to leave all of your money in one thing, regardless of what the story is of how we got there.

I understand. Because this thing turned right side up, but it used to be $3, and it could be that again hypothetically. I doubt it, but it could be. Okay? Right. I'm not predicting that. I don't even know what the company name is. I don't want to know. It doesn't matter. The concept of diversification gives you safety, not having all your eggs in one basket, as they say, and you probably heard that, right? Right, definitely. Yeah, so common sense says...

We need to get some of this off the table. The faster, the better, but being wise about tax rates as you do it. Okay. Okay. But so let's say your husband makes 250. And if I'm right, and I might not be, I'm sitting here questioning. I don't know if it affects capital gains. I've got the number here, Dave, if you want. I know it's gone up a little bit. Is it over 20%? It is 20%, but the number, if it's married filing jointly, it's 583. Yeah, but I don't know if capital gains activates that number.

That's based on your household income for the year. Your AGR? Okay. So if you only cash out $150,000 a year, what's the max you can cash out? What's the top income rate before it kicks in? $583,000 this year. If you only cash out $300,000 a year, you're never going to get diversified. It would take a long time. But if you go over $300,000, you're probably going to go from 15% to 20% capital gains rate. Follow me?

Yes, yes. Because the rich must be punished, including homeschool moms. Just ask the bozos in Washington, okay? So anything we can do to do that, but the first $300,000 a year is a no-brainer, but that's not really moving very much of $18 million.

Exactly. You've got to live to be 300 years old to get it all moved around. So you're probably going to take some tax hit. And what your analysis is, what your consideration is, is am I willing to give up 20% of, say, a million dollars? Am I willing to give up 200 grand out of a million in order for it not to all be in one thing?

I see. I am if it's me, but I'm not going to be in a rush. I want to do some of it, but I sure wouldn't want this thing to turn upside down and you end up with half your money because you didn't move it over 20%, right?

Right, right. Well, I think our whole mindset is just really different than maybe people who come on to your show or go on to your programs because I've never lived with this kind of money. You don't need the money. I have no need for any of this money. Yeah, but you've been given the responsibility to manage it.

True. So we want to be wise. We don't want to look back and say we were unwise. Not because you're going to go buy a Lamborghini. That's not the point. Okay. Right. Because you're not. That's not who you are. You just said that. But we also don't want to give up more in tax money than we have to give. And so some of these tax rate things are possibly moving in a different administration. Right.

So it could be next spring or next year. Congress passes with a different president, a different tax law that could happen. I wouldn't sit around and count my chickens on that one either way, but either. So I want you to sit down with a tax professional and with one of our smart investor pros and begin to get some investment advice. If I'm you, even if it costs me some money, I would rather have the safety of,

than I would the extra 20%. So what are we talking about here? 3.6 million moves at all. So instead of 18, you've got 15 or 14. But it's all moved and it's diversified and it's safe. And you've reset your basis and everything higher. And then you can invest it in something less volatile and a little less risky. Yeah, if you did it all at once, that's probably what you're facing, max. Would you rather have 14 diversified or 18 undiversified?

I'm probably a little of both. I'm probably somewhere in the middle of that. But I'm moving some of it, and I'd learn how. So get with the SmartVestor Pro. Get with the Tax ELP. Learn about the taxes. Learn about the investing. Wow, congratulations. If you haven't downloaded the Ramsey Network app yet, you should. It's completely free, and everything on it is completely free. And it's the way you get all of our shows, audio and video.

of all of our shows, including the President Trump interview that I did last week. It'll land on the Ramsey Network app tomorrow, and you can check it out. Also, you can ask questions there. You can search the show by subject's.

You can say, hey, I want to see different times that George Camel has answered a question about car leasing. Boom. It'll all pop up. I want to see the time that George Camel answered a question about sell the horse. I knew it was coming. Ah, there we go. It's going to pop up. You're trying to spike the horse search numbers, Dave. That's it. You're rigging it. There we go. There's a reason to do it. You can create hate.

All just the horse people all hate you. That's what will happen. Equestrian community. I'm trying to make amends. You can even ask questions by email, George. And today's Ramsey Network app question is from Linda. Linda asks, I'm 81 and I own eight rental houses to supplement my Social Security.

The houses have a value of approximately $75,000 each and are paid for. The insurance on them run about $10,000 a year. I'm considering canceling the insurance and putting that $10,000 in a high-interest savings account annually. It would not be devastating if I lost one of the houses. However, it would lower my monthly income. What is your opinion?

Well, the insurance is created there to divert the risk to the insurance company instead of you. So, Dave, she's saying, well, Dave, I can handle the risk. I'll pay the extra if I need to replace this entire house. Here's the thing. I don't think it's going to cost $75,000 to replace that house in 2024, even if that's what she paid for them. Well, she said they have a value. But do you think to rebuild a house from scratch? I don't know what kind of house it is. I can't understand why there's a $10,000 cost.

insurance policy on a $75,000 house. That doesn't make sense. Confusing. There's something wrong with that number. Unless you live in Florida, which would give you a reason to keep them all insured. I mean, did you notice what just happened? And so, I mean, because the thing that bothers me is if you self-insure and one of them burns, I agree. If you self-insure and Helene comes through and knocks them all down, you are screwed.

So I don't know. I mean, or if you live in Asheville, North Carolina today and the whole thing got flooded, wiped out just about the whole freaking town. If that was you, I don't know. I mean, if you're in what, where was it a few years ago? Springfield, Missouri. And like the tornado just did a dance on the whole town. Remember that? Yeah. Or a path that had gum town.

So, I mean, a singular loss, yeah, you could self-insure with those numbers. So first thing, Linda, is there's something wrong with your numbers if you're not in Florida. I think she's saying the total 10,000 a year across the eight. That would make more sense. Now that's 750 a piece? No, I would not cancel it. Simple.

So you're talking a little over $1,000 for each rental is what she's paying for insurance, which tracks. That makes a lot more sense. Okay, you're right, George. I was reading this wrong. We both brain farted. I had $10,000 apiece.

to insure a $75,000 house would be nutso. Okay. So she's going to save a total of $10,000. But now if you're in California or you're in Florida or you're on the Texas coast where you've got a hurricane problem, we're seeing the property and casualty market completely go bonkers. So getting homeowners insurance is bonkers in some of those areas. They've been dropping people. Some of you that live in Amarillo don't know what that means. But...

But that's still, I mean, it's nuts in those towns. And we're sitting here at this moment having just experienced a hurricane as we're broadcasting this. The nation has experienced a hurricane. This is my reference to Florida and Asheville, the flooding from the hurricane. Now, Dave, you own a lot of property. You pay insurance on all of them. They're all fully insured. And it's not a big part of your world as far as rentals go. I do carry a large deductible.

I, um, on the rental, which lowers the premium, probably five or 10 grand.

So she could do that if she wants to save some money. And that would probably cut her 10 by 20 or 30% if she hasn't already run. I would run a large deductible, but if you're only paying $10,000 for eight properties, no, I would not drop my insurance. Not worth it. No. Hopefully the rentals pay out way more to where this is a small cost for you. Yeah. I could survive if I lost any one of my properties and self-insure through it. I have not chosen to for the dollars.

I'm willing to pay those dollars to transfer that risk. It does make sense to me, and I'm not going to recommend at 81 that you do that. But pretty cool question to be sitting there at 81 with eight paid-for properties and still be asking how I can save money. That's a way to supplement your Social Security. Which is all Social Security needs is supplementing because that's all it was designed for. It was not designed to be the thing. Katie is with us in Sacramento. Hi, Katie. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hello. Thank you so much for taking my call. I appreciate it. Sure. What's up? So about nine months ago, my husband and I took in my niece and nephew. They're 17 and 19 now. Wow. What happened? They're...

Okay, that. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

I'm calling in because my question surrounds what kind of oversight we should have over their finances. And the agreement was when they moved in here, because the 19-year-old's in college. So if he was in college and playing baseball, we would support him. So I kind of just wanted your guys' insight because this is new territory for us. Wow, what you're doing is amazing. You're neat people. Thank you. Thank you. Well...

When ours were teens is the only way I know to relate to it, and it's how I would recommend in this case. Okay. Three things that ran through our minds at all times. They're not fully baked yet, so we don't take them out of the oven. Okay? So you are in 100% control of the money, period. Having said that, we now have a goal of turning loose money.

fully baked adults at some point in the near future. This particular pair has some unusual issues that are different than yours will have when they're this age because they're coming out of a dysfunctional setting. So what does fully baked mean? How are we going to, how are we, my friend Andy Andrews always says, we're not trying to raise great kids. We're trying to raise kids who become great adults, different goal.

And that's what I mean by fully baked. So what I'm going to do is, even though I'm maintaining complete control, I'm going to talk through everything with them and the why behind everything as a part of their adult training, training them to become an adult. Okay? So the only reason I'm keeping my hand on the wheel is so you don't wreck. I do want you to learn to freaking drive, though.

Okay. And so we're sitting down and we're talking through choices and decisions, choices and decisions, and the why behind wisdom and the why behind impulsive, stupid four-year-olds trapped in 17-year-old bodies. Why we're not doing that and why we are doing the other. So here's the thing. We want you to finish college and not mess up your money. And so, yeah, you're going to play baseball and, yeah, you're going to get the grades and all that's more important than beer drinking. Hello. Hello.

Right. And so we got to talk about, okay. So it is fair to ask. It sounds like, and no, it's not fair to ask. It's fair to tell. Okay. I'm going to tell them, but I'm going to tell them the why it's not because you need anything out of this relationship or you need any of their money. I'm teaching you to brush your teeth. So you have some,

I'm teaching you to study because people who embark on a continuous journey of learning are those people we call successful. I'm teaching you to sit down with a counselor that I'm going to pay for because anyone that comes out of a situation like you have come out of needs someone to talk some of their feelings through with. I'm teaching you how to navigate life successfully.

To the extent you do that well for your own sake, I will take my hand off the wheel. Otherwise, expect training wheels because that's an act of love on your part. So talk to them about my job is to teach you to become an adult. Here's what an adult looks like, a successful one anyway. And adulthood is not chronological. I meet 52-year-olds who aren't fully baked. Never got there. This is The Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business?

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Thank you for joining us, America. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author of the book, Breaking Free from Broke, is my co-host today. Stacey's in Houston. Hi, Stacey. How are you? Hi, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I just had a question. We are in Baby Step 2 right now. I just came across your website and your YouTube channel and everything. And so we are in Baby Step 2. However, I had a huge question about my vehicle.

I have my husband. He owns his work car, but we are paying on my vehicle, and we're wondering, just based off of everything that I've seen with your videos, we're wondering if we should get rid of that car, like if we should somehow get rid of the one that I have. Well, welcome to the tribe. Hi. Yeah. So it's been tight around there, and it's not been fun lately, huh?

No, it has not been fun. Definitely not. We've, I feel like we've been married for five years now going to six. And we always struggled with money. And so actually we did download your every dollar app. And through that app, we have noticed that the big mistake that we're making is that we're spending more than what he makes. And so we were actually able to see how much money he actually makes in a month. And it's like, well, you

you know, we're broke because we want to be broke. So we're really tying everything down. We're both on board. And so I feel like this is the best way that I can. You're both on board. I heard that, right? Yes, definitely. Yes, we are. You started out with, I download the thing. And then you went to later on in the conversation, we did the app together. So it does sound like you're both on board. I'm good with that. Okay. So I'm proud of you. That's a big step. You are making some big, I mean, cause what happened was, is you went, Oh, this sucks. Yeah.

And then you started, then you, when he put it all on the app, the, the numbers start talking to you and you went, oh, that's wrong. And that's wrong. And we got to fix that. And that's wrong. And look at this car. No wonder we can't breathe. And so it's the numbers start talking to you. And here's the great news. You're listening.

So I predict amazing things for your all's next 12 months. It's going to be very, very hard, but for the first time in your lives, you're going to be on a path towards not only not being broke, but being wealthy. I'm real proud of you guys. We want to help you guys any way we can. So what do you owe on the car? So right now we owe $28,355. Have you looked up what it's worth?

It is worth, no, I have not actually. Okay. Go to kellybluebookkbb.com. It's probably the most accurate. You can also look at Edmunds for car values. Those are two good places to get values. They put out two types of values on there. Trade-in, which is wholesale, what a dealer would give you for it, which obviously they're going to make a profit on that number.

And then private sale, which is if you put it in Traders or something like that, or Craigslist or whatever, and you sold it yourself to an individual to individual, and that's more of a closer to a retail number. The third number is retail, which you can't get because you're not a dealer. But you're probably private sale numbers, what you're looking at. What kind of car is it? What is it? It's a 2023 Volkswagen Tiguan, small CV. Okay. All right. Nice car.

And what's your household income? It is, well, it kind of depends. Right now he's making about, I mean, worst case, a week it's $1,881, but it's looking more like $2,394. His hours are different. So if he gets OT, he gets a couple grand a week.

Yes, he does. Okay. So we're talking about six figures. So he's making $70,000, $80,000 a year depending on overtime. Yes. I mean, up to $100,000, but probably not getting $2,000 every week. Okay. Okay. That's take-home, though, isn't it? Yes, this is take-home. Okay. That's good news. What other debt do you have?

So we have, let's see. So we have one credit card that has $867 on it. We have a loan. Our AC busted. We had to redo the unit, and right now the balance is $2,015. We owe my dad $10,630, the car payment, and the house. Okay. That'll do it. If I woke up in your shoes like, yes, I would sell this car.

Right. You're right. It's the one thing on the list that just screams at me in your numbers, like it did at you when you wrote it down, right? Yes, sir. That's one of the only things you can sort of undo in this mess. Yeah, the rest of it you're going to have to claw through and live on beans and rice, rice and beans. You've heard that already on the website. It didn't take you long to get to that number.

and scorched earth we don't eat out unless we're working in that restaurant we don't see the inside of it we're not going on vacation he's picking up all the ot he can you're selling so much stuff the kids think they're next and you're gonna get this mess cleaned up yeah and here's the beautiful part with the numbers you just gave me if he can get more overtime rather than less and you sell this car you're debt free in a year

Yeah, actually, I was going down the numbers, and we went at it like a gazelle running from the hunter. I mean, we put God above everything else as well, and that really spoke to us. And we've been, you know, studying the Proverbs scripture that you mentioned in the video with the baby steps. And so we're looking at paying two of these loans or two of these debts. We're paying these off by the beginning of November. Yeah.

So, yeah, this is great. And then the loan that we have with my dad, and, you know, everything is great there with the family, but we do need to pay this back, obviously. He says to take our time, but we need to get it out of our chest. No, I want it out of my life. It's weighing on you more than him. Because you've already breathed in the air of what it's going to feel like to have no payments. You can already get your head around those emotions right now, and now you want it. I can hear it. You're doing great. You're going to kill it. Yeah.

This is awesome. Yeah, sell the car. Yeah. Because the car, listen, you can get you another car later, whatever you want. But if you'll drive like no one else and you'll live like no one else later, you can live like no one else and you'll get to drive like no one else. That's right. Stacey, I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. It comes with three months of every dollar premium so you can connect it to your bank. You can track all of your expenses with smart tracking. It'll make it...

real easy for you guys to do this journey. And I hope the book's an encouragement to you, but you guys are already there. I mean, the fact, the way she's talking, this debt might as well already be paid off. It is so interesting, George, that over the 30 plus years of doing this, that I talked to somebody making $200,000 a year and they got $40,000 worth of debt. They don't think they can do it. And I talked to somebody with $100,000 worth of debt that makes $60,000 a year and they think they can do it.

And they actually do. And they're the ones that actually do it. And so she's got, her numbers are excellent, but what's much better than her numbers are her, is her language.

It's revealing her heart and where they are. We are doing this. She's been diving in. She's studying the stuff already. I mean, she's brand new to Ramsey stuff, and she's already spouting that like she knows it all. Well, there's two pieces that were encouraging. Number one, she looked in that financial mirror. They actually did the budget, and they went, oh, crap, we're spending more than we make. That makes sense. That's how we got here. We've got to do something about that. And the other one was the language of just belief that it wasn't someone else's fault. It's not all their fault, but it's their responsibility to pick up the pieces and clean up this mess.

And she had the willingness to go, yeah, this is on us. You know, that's a good point, George. What are you going to do when you have an oh crap moment? What is your first response? Is it to blame others, to get angry, to whine? Or do you go, all right, let's get the budget out. Let's see what we're working with here. And she finally got to that point. Most people never get there. Or it takes 20 years of marriage to get there. Sometimes when you have a moment like that, you freeze from just fear or being stuck in

or whatever, and other people, they go into attack mode. She's like, all right, I've got to find this out. I've got to work this. I've got to get this. And this is what you said to do. Do we need to do this? And all she wanted was one little clarification on the car, but she's already game on, you know? She found that little kernel of hope and just hung on to it, and it's starting to grow, and she's seeing this light at the end of the tunnel. That's the best part. Proverbs says, when desire comes, it is the tree of life. Yeah. Wow. Wow.

It's powerful. Not much stopping you there. Once you get that desire, it's powerful. It'll carry you. What are you going to do when you have an oh crap moment? What's your next step? Start gathering information. Fix the problem. Gather information. Fix the problem. I don't care what the moment, what area of your life the moment is in. It could be money. It could be something else. What are you going to do? Got to gather information. I got to fix the problem because the information I had before brought me to this oh crap moment. I got to stop using that same information.

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We even do this when we look at ourselves in the mirror. I know because I've been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding behind masks and costumes all the time, if you find yourself hiding from your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can be honest, where you can talk to somebody else and reflect and learn and you can accept all the parts of yourself over time and start living an authentic life.

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A few weeks ago, our team reached out to Vice President Harris' camp about doing a long-form sit-down interview and also to President Donald Trump's camp about the same thing. The Harris camp has our invitation, in quotes, under review. The Trump campaign accepted, and I flew to New York last week and on Thursday spent some time with President Trump just sitting down talking about ideas.

My goal there was, I think it was accomplished. You can watch it for yourself and decide, was to have a discussion about what could happen if he got to do the things he wants to do. What are ideas? Not about trashing the other side. We got that, okay? Both of you, we got it, okay? And not about what you used to do. I don't really care what you used to do, except as it's an indicator for what you're going to do. That's all I care about. And so what are the ideas? Because I'm kind of tired of all the,

the four-year-old bickering and whining. I would just like to know if you're really going to do something. And I'm not confused. I know folks, and I continue to tell y'all, and I told him that what happens in your house is more important than what happens in the White House. But just the same, we are in a political season, so it's nice to hear from the different camps what it is you're actually going to do. What are your ideas? What are the things you believe in?

and because those things do matter they they things like the economy yeah there's a thing right there so we talked about the economy a lot uh we talked about taxes oil uh we talked about parenting uh we talked about leadership and um it was a good interview what about golf did that make it in there we actually did talk about golf i worked that in so there you go um but but

to which he asked if I was any good. Oh, wow. How do you respond to that? I had to answer honestly, not really. I'm a 13, and he just kind of snickered. But there you go. Okay. Which means I'm a mid-handicapper and so on. Anyway, it's fun. It'll be out tomorrow on the Ramsey Network app.

That's October 1st. Which you can download for free. October 1st, tomorrow, you can download the Ramsey Network app. It'll be on there tomorrow. I guess at midnight tonight or whatever, they'll put it on there. And then on Wednesday, October 2nd, the episode will be on our YouTube channel and on our podcast channel. So wherever you listen to the Ramsey Show or watch it. Yeah, wherever you listen to Ramsey Network stuff, it's all free. We're not charging. We're not doing it. I just think it's important to have civil rights.

discussions, even arguments about ideas. I don't mind arguing about an idea, but all this other stuff, I'm just, it's out of control and it's ridiculous.

It's just nuts as far as I'm concerned. Some of you love it, and some of you are so mad about everything. You're just mad because I'm doing this interview, and you're like, I'm never listening to Dave Ramsey again. Well, you weren't listening to him to start with, so no big deal, really. I mean, you might have had the radio on. After 30 years, the things you've said, if that's what finally did it, I'm impressed. Yeah, I mean, really. You were really looking for something to be pissed about.

Uh, me, me reaching out to both camps to interview them and sit down with them is that's the thing that did it for you. Okay. Well, good for you. So, cause some of you people hate Trump or hate Kamala so badly that, that it's just, y'all are nuts. Y'all have lost it a little bit out there. Dial it back in seriously. Uh, you can be angry about an idea. I'll fight with you about an idea, but that's just y'all. Some of y'all have lost it.

Your ability to do critical thinking around this stuff is bizarre. Anyway, enough of that. So it'll be fun. The opening question is about the economy. And so that's the opening question in the interview. And you check it out again on the Ramsey Network app on Tuesday, October the 1st, Wednesday, October the 2nd. It'll be all over everything. So and.

It was fun. I've never done something like that before. I've interviewed a couple of presidents or past presidents in the past, but not during an active political season. I did have presidential candidates on one year during the primary season. Okay. So I ended up with like Ben Carson came on. Oh, that's right. I remember that. And some others and...

You know, Vivek came on after he lost the other day, but he's been a friend. He's come on before. Nikki Haley's come on before. She's now going to do a podcast and called the other day to see if I would come on hers, which I will. She's been on here three or four times, but we didn't even end up talking to them during when they were running this time. We could have, but we just didn't. But it's interesting to talk to these people because most of them are just wired a little different.

um, in order to want to do that job. Um, there's something, uh, cool and something weird about it, you know? So, um, you know, it just fun to be in a situation like that. Yeah. That's cool. Talking too much about it. Check it out. We'd love to have you watch it. All right. Monica is with us. Monica is in Virginia beach. Hi, Monica. How are you?

Hi, Dave and George. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. So my question is, should I cash in my investment account to jump to baby step four? Are they in a retirement account? They're both in the S&P 500 in Fidelity. One is in a Roth IRA. That's $25,000. And then an individual account for $27,000. And my 401k has $5,000 in it. And your debt is how much?

$22,000 from real estate. It's on a credit card, but it's from buying properties. I kind of overshot a little bit. Oh, boy. What's the interest rate on that? It's pretty low. You still got the property? It's

I do. I do. I bought two in one year. I had saved up $100,000. This is all before I found you. So I did everything a little bit backwards. So I made some mistakes and then I did some really good things. So I'm very grateful. My net worth now is $500,000, but it's from so much grinding and struggle.

renovating these two properties by myself, getting them rented. So I'm thankful. Let me stop you. Good. Way to go. Congratulations. I'm glad you got here, and I'm glad you're making some adjustments to solidify and stabilize the situation. So let me make sure I understand. You have $27,000 in a non-retirement account, right? Yes. And you have $22,000 on a credit card, right? Right. Now, if you didn't have either of these,

Would you go borrow $25,000 on a credit card in order to put it into an S&P? Right. No, I would not do that. Effectively, that's what you've done, isn't it?

Yeah. You didn't mean to, but accidentally that's where your balance sheet has ended up. Right. Exactly. So I wouldn't touch the retirement accounts, but I would cash out this other non-retirement investment account with 27K. You will likely have capital gains. I don't know how long you've been investing in this, but account for that. Make sure you've got the money on hand to pay that after you've got the credit card knocked out. But this is a, I'm getting you debt free today. I love the idea of you getting to baby step four instantly. Thank you.

Right, but that would only be, so if I cashed in both of those, it would be about $22,000 in taxes. What do you mean both? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. We said non, $27,000 in S&P. The individual account has $27,000, right? That's just one account? And that's not in a retirement, right? Right, it's not. Okay. How would you have taxed on that? Sorry.

Oh, isn't there like 40% taxes basically? Like you're taking it out early? Oh, really? No, you're not taking it out of a retirement account, right? There's no penalty here. Okay. Yeah, there's just going to be capital gains taxes in that account, which could be, depending on your income, 0, 15, or 20%. What's your household income?

About 85. Okay. 15% of your gain, how much it's gone up in value since you put money into that account. How much money did you put into that $27,000 account? I think all 27. Okay, you'll have no tax. Right. You'll have no tax. Wow, I didn't realize that. It'll be a few bucks. Amazing. Yeah, so you can start building your emergency fund, 100% get it done, up to three to six months of expenses. Okay.

And so the secret to holding on to a net worth that is based in a lot of real estate, which is where you are, is to build a cash position. Okay. Most people that do real estate don't have enough cash. Because they love putting it into real estate.

They don't want to hang on to it. Right. I know. Thank you for your teachings. I love this. I'm so excited to work from cash and pay these off. It's so motivating to take the risk portion out of it. Love it. Yeah, that's what does it. Getting rid of the miscellaneous debts like we're doing and then build up a big old pile of cash so when the heat and air goes out on one of the rental properties, you don't even blink.

You just keep rolling. You fix it and you keep rolling. You can't fix it and you keep rolling. And then we start working towards getting those all paid off eventually. And, but you've got a great net worth already way to go. You've made some really good decisions and the little bad ones that you made, you're making adjustments on. So well done. It's amazing. Proud of you. It's amazing to see someone in real estate who has their risk meter intact. So good for her. That's rare. Yeah.

Well, it activated a little late, but it did activate. Better late than never. I love it. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love.

and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book Breaking Free from Broke, and host of The George Camel Show on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Elijah is in Fort Worth, Texas. Hey, Elijah, what's up?

Hello, thank you for taking my call today. Sure. So I am looking to take over my boss's business. He is moving out of state the end of this month and he will be handing over his clients to me. He's not selling the business to me in any way. I'm going to have to open up a new LLC, have it under a new name as my own business. And I am just waiting to get some pointers on the best way to set everything up so I

I don't mess it up. It's a handyman business and he has a bunch of clients, which is why I'm taking over the phone number because that's what it's tied to. And he's on track this year to profit about $120,000 from the business. I am looking to just take over the phone number, set up the LLC and to subcontract out the work that

I'm not able to do so that I can still have income coming in for those bigger jobs that come. But I'm needing to get the LLC set up to get...

probably QuickBooks account, advertising website. And I'm just wanting to know the best way to set that all up to get myself going in a good direction so I don't mess everything up that I'm being handed over. Good for you. It's a good question. How long have you been working for him? I have been working for him since I moved down here at the beginning of August. Two months? Two months, yes, sir.

Okay. That's odd. And how much of the work that is coming in is work that you are going to do? What percentage are you going to do? What percentage are you going to subcontract? The majority of the jobs that he gets are smaller jobs that I would be able to do. You have the hands-on knowledge to do the job yourself.

For the most part, a lot of it is just basic things that I'm learning as I go and I'm able to, it's just simple things.

Simple tasks, he's got a lot of his clients are older clients who just want simple jobs done. But then there are the bigger jobs that come to him. I got that. I got that there's different categories. I'm just saying I'm kind of amazed after two months you can even do all the simple jobs. Did you grow up with a handy father or how did you know how to do all of these things in 60 days? I did grow up doing...

manual labor most of my life and I also was a plumbing apprentice for a little over a year and a half so I have Some knowledge in a side of things so you can hook up a dishwasher. Yes, sir. Yeah, how old are you? 21 okay, all right um well The magic dust here is you it's not an LLC It's not a website

It's not any of that crap. Okay. So the way you're asking the question makes me think that, you know, like you think there's some big thing to setting up a business. You can go to the bank today and open a sole proprietorship in your name and your social security. It could just simply be called Elijah's Handyman Service.

Or Elijah so-and-so, whatever your last name is, DBA, doing business as Elijah's Handyman Service. And that's all. You don't even have to have an LLC.

An LC is an extra layer that I'm not sure you need. And then you could take some of your money out of your pocket and get one of your buddies to help you fill up a website right quick. What, WordPress or something, right, George? No, there's a ton out there. You can do them cheap or free. I mean, Squarespace. Yeah. And then you've got to get, you know, you need a bank account and you need probably some way to accept payment.

So you would set up what, again, Square? Yeah, you could do Square. I mean, my handyman, he uses Venmo and has a business Venmo. You need both. But truly, your client list. Maybe PayPal. Sounds like your client list doesn't really use websites. I mean, it sounds like they're old school. The way he built this business was probably word of mouth. The phone number being transferred is important. So all of that's fine. If you also want to open an LLC, that's fine. But honestly, if I'm in your shoes, I wouldn't fool with it right now.

Until I figure out if I'm actually going to get this thing rolling. Until you get this thing rolling. Make sure you can actually complete these gigs and the customers are satisfied. And then I'd consider how do we grow this thing. Because you have to let all the customers know the business is being taken over by me, right? Right. Because when they start calling that phone number, it's not going to be tied to him anymore. Yeah, it's going to come to you. So, I mean, do you have a list of the customers with their phone numbers? Yeah.

He has a whole list of contacts that he'll be sending to me. When he sends that to you that day, I want you to sit down and start calling. I want you to call them all in two days. Okay. And say, I'm going to specialize in making your life amazing today.

He has left the building. Elvis left the building and Elijah is still here. Okay. And so, um, and I'm going to be there. I'm almost one of the guys already doing the work. And if you need anything, I'm here for you. Just let me know. But I wanted to contact you and let you know that you're going to hear a different voice when you call this phone number and establish a relationship with them as much as possible, as quickly as possible. Don't wait till they call with a need.

Okay, and then would you recommend that I get any sort of insurance for my own personal protection, or do you think I should just wait to do that until later on? I mean, you can, but you don't have to do it immediately. I mean, call an insurance broker.

Okay, a broker is someone who represents many different insurance companies and they will then represent you and shop around and get a little inexpensive business protection policy, a liability policy, just so if they ask, you can say, yes, I'm insured. But that's really the only reason because there's not the likelihood of them suing a 21 year old for hooking up a dishwasher is almost zero. Right. You're not exactly a target. Right.

Right. Unless you burn their house down. You know what I'm saying? And so don't do something illegal. Don't do something outside of code. Don't do something along those lines. But, you know, when you're hauling off some trash and doing a little weed eating and hook up a dishwasher and fix one little leaky pipe, you're fine in freaking Fort Worth, Texas. Nobody's going to bother you.

When you need an LLC or when you need insurance is when you start having some money and or making some money, and then the customer or someone else perceives you as a target. But you're not exactly target rich right now.

Okay. And then would you recommend that I go ahead and wait to subcontract out jobs until later on? I'm fine if you do it now, as long as you can manage it. But I think your primary thing is get these ones that you can do, and I think you can make $100,000 doing by yourself. And then you could have an employee and take it to $200,000 and never subcontract a single thing. But if you get something that's out of your depth, don't take it.

Hand it off to one of the subcontractors or bring one of them in, one of the two. Either send them the lead as a favor or, and then build up a group of people that owe you favors, or bring them in and you manage the job if you want. I don't care, but I think your primary income base is you. Elijah, you're the secret sauce here. Not LLCs, not insurance, not subcontractors, not websites. It's you.

You're going to rise and fall based on your effort. Get them. Hey, when you go against what society thinks is, quote, normal, like avoiding debt, for example, it might seem weird at first, and that is totally okay. We want you to be weird if that means doing things intentionally, including how you spend your health care dollars. And one way to be intentional is with Christian health care ministries. See,

CHM isn't health insurance. They're a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of healthcare costs without sacrificing their freedom. Find out more and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Hey guys, Rachel Cruz here. You know, some people think budgeting means they can't have any fun with money. And I know this because that was me. But the

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The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Y-Refi. Student loan debt is a swamp thousands of people find it hard to escape from. Don't be another statistic in the student loan swamp. For distressed private student loans, there's Y-Refi. We trust Y-Refi because they help you with a low fixed interest rate that you couldn't get anywhere else to help you stick to your budget and get out of debt.

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I recently watched a video from George on no money down mortgages. My wife and I bought a house in 2021 with a $10,000 no interest down payment loan that's attached to my mortgage. The principal for that part of the loan doesn't go down every month. My payment is only applied to actual mortgage. We plan on living in this house for about the next 10 years until I retire. Should we refinance and roll the interest only loan into our mortgage?

It's $10,000. $10,000, no interest, down payment loan that is interest only. Yeah, but you could just pay it off. So you could pay down the loan just to nothing, 10 grand, just knock it out like you would a consumer debt and be done with it. Because it is a consumer debt. Refinancing is going to cost you. And I don't think it's worth doing that with a $10,000 loan to pay $4,000 or $5,000 just to refinance. No, no. You just pay this off. This is not a... All you're saying is you bought a house you couldn't afford.

Because you had no money. You're broke people, and broke people shouldn't buy houses. That's why they call them brokers. All right, it's because it helps you get broker and broker, so you're in a mess. So put this on your list of debt snowball items, like it's a stinking credit card, $10,000, and just pay it off, like it's a car loan. Pay it off. It's $10,000. And if you can't do that, then you need to sell that. You bought a house, you can't afford it. But I don't think that's the case.

I think he's making it. He would have mentioned if he was pinched. Yeah, it doesn't sound like a pinch. Sounds like they made a mistake. And this is 2021. It wasn't a long time ago they bought this house. They got a good interest rate on the first mortgage. It's another reason not to refinance it. That's true. They'd give up that 2021 rate and pick up a 6% or 7% while paying.

paying the five grand it would cost to refinance. Yeah, or more. I would just get the 10, you know, scrape together 10 grand and call them and say, I want to pay this off in full. Be done with it. Be done with it as fast as you can. Rosa's in Dallas. Hi, Rosa. How are you? Hi, Mr. Ramsey. Hi, George. How are you? Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

I'm doing just as well. I have a question today. My parents are 85 and 82, and they have a will, but my question is, is a will enough to keep probate court out, or do they need a trust? I can give you some backstory if you need to. What state are they in? They're in Texas. What's the probate tax rate? Do you know?

I do not. I have no idea because luckily I've never had to be the executor of anybody's will. They do have me as their executor, but we're trying to, if it's possible, to not pay taxes. So what they have right now is... Well, that's not possible. You're either going to pay legal fees to build a trust that looks like taxes or you're going to pay taxes. Either way, you're going to be out some money. So what is the size of their estate?

So they don't have much. The main thing on their will that is an asset worth fighting for would be their home, which is worth right now $264,000. What will happen to it when they pass? So the way they have it written is obviously whoever supersedes the other will keep the home, but once they're both gone...

I, as executor, will put the house up for sale. And the idea was to split the profit amongst all the siblings, which currently they have 11 on the will. If there's any probate tax that can come out of the proceeds of that, it won't be substantial. Did you find it? I've been looking here. I'm not seeing it quite yet. George is trying to look up and see what it was in Texas because I don't know off the top of my head. I don't think it's much. But in most states, it's 3% or 4%.

Okay. And so we're talking about, you know, six or eight grand and at most, at most. And the trust could cost you that just to set up. Well, it could cost you half of that anyway. And it's a pain in the butt. No, you don't need a trust.

But if you want to verify it, you can find out what the probate rate is in Texas and see if it applies to personal residence. It may not even apply to personal residence because Texas has a bunch of homestead laws that apply to personal residence and protect personal residence from a lot of other things. They've got weird laws on real estate because they're not really a state. They're a republic. Just ask them. I'm kidding. But...

But anyway, yeah. So, yeah, they do have very, they have a lot of laws that protect the home. And it might even do that there on the estate side. I don't know. I don't know the law. But you could look it up real easy or talk to an attorney. But the only thing you could do is if you move the house into a trust, then the trust is liquidated. You might run into some capital gains there that you don't want to run into. So I think you're better off just to let it happen with the will.

But I, you know, you could double check and see if my math is off. Let's pretend, okay? Let's pretend they had a 10%, which would be an unbelievably high probate tax on $250,000. That'd be $25,000. And let's pretend it costs four grand, five grand to put together a trust. Well, then you might look at it, right?

Right. But if it costs four or five grand in taxes or four or five grand in the trust, I'm just going to pay the taxes and not screw with the trust because it has one more layer of stupidity you got to deal with as the executor when both of these pass. But, you know, just gather up a little bit more estate planning knowledge than Dave and George have about Texas. And you're doing good.

I can't find anything that says there's a probate tax. It sounds like you have your court fees, attorney fees, but it doesn't sound like there's a special tax. You're going to have that everywhere, but most states have a tax on it. I truly don't know. It says inheritance are generally not subject to state or federal income taxes in Texas.

You may be zero. I'm not saying anything about probate or something. Maybe zero, which makes this a mic drop for sure. It's will only. You don't need a – I'm telling you, there's a lot of – Texas is a very tax-friendly state to the people that live there, not to the government. So it's one of the reasons that people are moving to Tennessee now

to Florida and to Texas in droves because we don't have an income tax. Most of us don't have hardly any estate tax at all. Florida has none. And that's one of the reasons it's the retirement capital of the freaking world before all this stuff happened. And everybody left New York and California and went to those two other places, but three other places. But that's what's going on. You always see migration. Policy does cause migration.

Because if you've got $20 million and you're going to get taxed on it, if you don't move and if you do move, you're not going to get taxed on it. Well, we're moving. We're loading up the truck and leaving Beverly Hills, that is. So there you go. It's the opposite movement of the old Beverly Hillbillies, right? So anyway, that's a good question. Very cool. Anchorage is with us. Abby is calling. Hi, Abby. How are you? I'm good. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Good, good. So my husband and I took out a home equity line of credit earlier this year. And after we did that, we decided that our income to debt ratio was a little bit out of control. So we decided not to use any of that money and just to pay off our debts first. Good. And we have paid a lot off. We still have a bit remaining. So my question is...

Do we have remaining or have we paid off? How much do you have remaining? About $27,000, a little under $27,000. And your question is what, hon? My question is, should we continue what we're doing with the debt snowball and pay off this debt that we have?

with every extra penny that we have or should we start putting some money aside as well so that we don't have to use the home equity line of credit and go further into debt? I'm sorry, why would you have to use the home equity line of credit if you pay off your debt? Well, we are building a shop. Is it under construction? Everything that we've done so far we've paid out of pocket. Do that or don't do it.

And no more debt. The secret to getting out of debt is quit borrowing more. Hello. That's your first step. I'd shut down that HELOC. Do it at the speed of cash. Yes, definitely. Good, good question. Good answer, George. This is The Ramsey Show.

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That's Fairwinds, F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here, and I got a big announcement. I'm coming to a city near you live on the Money and Relationships Tour.

with Dr. John Deloney. This is the most interactive event we've ever done. You get to decide what we talk about. You do not want to miss this. We'll be coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City in April and May of 2025. Get your tickets and more information at ramsaysolutions.com slash tour.

Wow. What a week I'm having. Tomorrow, Ben Shapiro is going to drop by. We're going to do a long-form interview. Last week, I interviewed Dr. Donald... President Donald Trump. Um...

Today, I'm interviewing not a doctor either, but my friend Will Gadara, New York Times bestselling author of the book Unreasonable Hospitality. He's a former co-owner of Eleven Madison Park, which under his leadership was voted several times the number one restaurant in the world.

The book is Unreasonable Hospitality. Welcome back, my friend. Thank you so much, man. I'm happy to be back here. So we got to hang out with Will. I met Will at a think tank in Aspen, which is something I'm not usually associated with. Ha ha ha!

Dave in a think tank or in Aspen, but with our friend Simon Sinek. Yeah. And I met Will through him, and we've become fast friends there. We've had several adventures together since then. Yeah, we have. All kinds of weird stuff. I still remember when we were going around the room in Aspen, and everyone was introducing themselves. I'll never forget what you said. He goes, I kind of feel like a wiener in a steakhouse right now. Well, I mean, there was like the president of Four Seasons Hotel. There was a woman who's a multi-billionaire that has...

coach stores and all this stuff and there's all these other people on there i'm listening to these guys and i'm going what am i doing in this room but it was fun yeah it was fun to hang out it really was so then you did the book um and it came out we were blessed to have you on the air here and talk about it when it first came out yeah unreasonable hospitality it keeps getting more and more life especially now that you're the producer and one of the stars on the bear my favorite act

or the show The Bear on the road. If you're watching The Bear, Will is one of the producers and a lot of this information in The Bear came from you. Yeah. And then they invited you to join. And then eventually I got invited to join the show.

Which here's the thing. I was watching that episode. It's after I had met you and I see cousin holding the book as he's in this personal growth journey. And you said you had no idea this was even happening. I didn't know that they were using the book and the stories from the book. It looks like paid product placement. It was that front and center. But you know, so what was so cool about that is the book it's about leadership and service through the lens of hospitality. And one of the feelings I try to like really convey is,

is this idea that hospitality is a selfish pleasure. It's an amazing feeling when you get to make someone else feel good, and it's also perhaps the best business competitive advantage you can have. But in the show, in that episode, they showed firsthand how someone can find purpose through hospitality in their job and be that much more engaged in pursuit of it in a way that you could never imagine

convey in the written word. They used everything that TV has to get the point across. The powerful episode. And really, I mean, it's almost a healing tool when you look at generosity through that lens. And Dave's been talking about outrageous generosity for years. And there's so much in common that you guys have in that realm of you have to live a life that is generous, that is open-handed. So you and your partner took 11 Madison Park, for those that don't know, to the number one restaurant in the world. Yeah.

what is unreasonable hospitality look like in a restaurant? Yeah. So,

I believe that if you look across disciplines, anyone that's been successful has done so by being unreasonable in pursuit of whatever product they're selling. They do whatever it takes to make it its most fully realized form. And yet, one of the problems is when we want to make a product better, we invest in it. We put resources behind it. We invest energy and time into it. And yet, so many companies out there want to have better customer service or more hospitality and yet are reticent to make the requisite investments in it.

Unreasonable hospitality, it means...

Just doing whatever it takes to make someone feel seen, to give them that sense of belonging. It's unreasonable to do this. Yeah. And yet we're going to do it anyway. Exactly. Because it's mind-blowing. Yeah. We were in a meeting the other day here and someone said, you need to be reasonable. I'm like, never. Reasonable did not get me here. Don't ask me to be reasonable. It's not a chance. And that's about other issues. But still, same idea. If you want unreasonable results, you have to be unreasonable.

And everyone that's been successful can relate to what you just said. Like, no, I'm not going to start being reasonable right now. I'm not going to stop being the very thing that allowed me to be where I am now. And if we devote that same maniacal energy and relentlessness in pursuit of making people just feel awesome.

There's this Maya Angelou quote, which I love. People will forget what you say. They will forget what you do, but they'll never forget how you made them feel. And I believe that to be true. And yet people invest on what we say and what we do, but not in how we make people feel.

Yeah. And you can have that when you walk into the lobby at Ramsey. Yeah. We've got this idea. We cook homemade chocolate chip cookies every morning. So when you walk in here, you smell mama's kitchen, not corporate America. Yeah. And you come in to watch the show, you get homemade chocolate chip cookies. You've got sweet, wonderful people waiting on you, giving you everything free while you sit and watch the show on the glass. And that's part of the experience you have when you walk onto this campus. I mean, I, I,

I believe it doesn't matter what you do for a living. You can make the choice to be in the hospitality industry simply by doing things like that, simply by working a little bit harder to look at what you're serving through the lens of the people you're serving and try to make it just a little bit more awesome for them.

So we got to hang out at a fundraiser with our wives the other night, and they finally got to meet after hearing all of our adventures and things we've gotten into trouble with together. But then I opened up my Instagram this morning, and at lunch today, when we were all just sitting around having lunch because you've been in the building doing the Deloney Show and others today, and you really got to live out the whole dream weaving chapter in life.

true form today. So I want you to talk about what a dream weaver is. Talk about that chapter and talk about what happened today. Yeah. So,

One of the things we did a lot at the restaurant was we tried to just be super present with the people we were serving and pick up on these little cues that we could use to make their experiences more special. We overheard a family from Spain, parents and their children. We had these big windows that started snowing. We learned that the kids had never seen real snow until that night. And so we had a position called the Dreamweaver. They were just there to help everyone else on the team bring ideas to life.

dreamweaver somehow found a store still open at eight o'clock on a friday night selling sleds and when that family left the restaurant at the end of the meal we had an uber suv parked out front with sleds in the back a big thermos of hot chocolate in the front to take him sledding in central park we were serving some of the best food in the world when people went to a restaurant like that years later they wouldn't remember anything they ate but they would never forget how we made them feel when we did stuff like that and by the way you want to take it to the bottom line

Every time we did something like that, it ultimately yielded higher profits because you give people stories like that to tell. What do you think they're going to do? They're going to tell them over and over and over again. Because while this is a very expensive meal, it doesn't cover Uber and sleds. No, no, no, no. Those are investments. You lost money on the whole transaction top to bottom. On that one. But every dollar. It was an investment. But every dollar I ever spent on that was far more impactful than any dollar I ever spent on traditional marketing.

Because people can do your marketing better than you can ever do it yourself. Forget the Facebook ad. So why did you name it Dreamweaver? After the iconic song by Gary Wright and the story. Because you are a child of the 80s. I am a child of the 80s. And so today. Guilty pleasure chapter. Well, today I did a talk this morning at the Grand Ole Opry.

And I was doing this talk. I was speaking to a company there and I was standing on the sacred circle and I was talking about the Dreamweaver and I could not help but sing that song a little bit because I wanted to make sure it was very clear when I got off that stage. I made my Grand Ole Opry debut. Yes. You can finally say it. I don't know if I've heard your singing voice. I mean, it scares me just a little. We'll leave it for the Grand Ole Opry. It scares me a little. I don't know.

But a great picture of you standing in the circle at the Grand Ole Opry. You've got a lot of accolades now. And the Bear now Emmy, I mean, it was just sweeping the Emmys. It was all anyone could talk about. And it's got to be cool to now be producing the show that your book was featured in. And they go, hey, you're going to be producing this next season. And now you're an actor. I mean, you were in the final episode. I was so excited to see you in there. Sitting next to my wife, actually. Wow. That's special. No, man. You know what's so cool is being a part of that show.

What I saw was them not only sharing the stories of the book in the show itself, but them living the ideas of the book and how the show was run and produced. And it showed me that if a television set can embrace these ideas and be more impactful as a result, then truly anyone in any industry can. And in the last two years since the book has come out, I've spent time with everyone from the Dallas Cowboys to J.P. Morgan to...

Sotheby's real estate and literally everyone in between all people who recognize that if they are as as as unreasonable in pursuit of people as they are in their product pretty cool things happen the book is unreasonable hospitality by my friend Will Godera number one one of our top speakers at Entree Summit a couple years ago thank you man fun stuff be sure and check it out it is a number one bestseller and there's a reason thanks for stopping by my friend thank you guys I appreciate it

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Missing out. I can't believe you didn't say don't miss the boat. God, it was right there. It's a soft toss. So don't miss the boat. There we go. We'll edit that in post. I like that. That's good. Except there is no post. All right. Cassie is in Fort Worth. Hi, Cassie. How are you? Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

I would like your non-partial advice on if I should hold my spouse financially responsible for our kids, even though I make more income than he does, I just don't want to put him in a financial hardship. I'm confused. Why would he not pay? Are you getting a divorce? Is that what you're saying?

It is, yes, it is about to be filed. We haven't filed yet. He moved out two months ago. Okay. I'm kind of a dinosaur. I'm an old guy. And so I'm from the generation that believes that men ought to take care of their kids. Moms and dads are both responsible for their kids. I know that's kind of weird in a culture where everybody's lost their dadgum minds, but I

But, yeah, you know, if it causes him financial hardship, well, work more. You brought these kids into the world, you help pay for them, period. You signed up for the trip, Bubba. You get to take the trip. So that's why every state in the United States has child support laws. Yes. Because that is the moral and ethical thing to do.

So what do you make? Yes, sir. I am a military veteran, and between my pension and VA benefits, I bring home $7,500 a month. Thank you for your service. What does he make? He brings home $2,800 a month. Okay. Well, child support is based on a percentage of his income. It is not based on just take all of his money and he has to be homeless. Right.

Yes, sir. It's 25% for two kids. But he's saying that he cannot afford that and he'll end up in jail. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I don't care. It's the law. It's not you being greedy. 25%. It's not got anything to do with you. How long have you been married to this guilt trip agent? 11 years. Yeah, he's been doing this a long time, hasn't he?

Yes, sir. I have been enabling a lot of irresponsible. He's a mama's boy from now on. Mommy always took care of him and he doesn't like it when things are hard. Bless his little heart. I'm sorry. I got no sympathy at all. Can you tell? It has nothing to do with greed. It has to do with babies. Two babies. Dude, you pay for the babies. That's how it works. Simple.

You take care of your children. It's called ethics. It's called morality. It's called manhood, for God's sakes. You take care of your children. It's that simple. And if you don't like what is left over after 25% comes out of your pay, go make more money. Go work more. Go get more jobs. And 25% will come out of all of it. And that's what the state of Texas says, apparently. I didn't know that. But that's okay with me. It costs more than 25% of $2,800 to raise two kids. Agreed?

Yes, sir. Yeah. So good. Glad you got good on you. You got some money. You're not being greedy. You're saying you should do a what the law says and be any man ought to be willing to take care of his children. That's not you. It's not you're not you're not collecting the money and buying a Lamborghini with 25 percent of twenty eight hundred bucks.

Exactly. That's what I told him. I'm not going on vacation. You don't need to negotiate with him anymore on this. You just say, see my lawyer, see my lawyer. It's hard to negotiate with a scumbag. That's kind of part of the problem here. We were going to not have lawyers. Yeah, you need a lawyer. You need a lawyer. You need a lawyer. All right. Yeah, because Junior needs to sign up and pay for his kids, and you need a lawyer. Is he going to be in their lives at all? What does this look like?

He's wanting to say that he is going to see them 50-50. That way he doesn't have to pay child support. That's a real man right there. I'm going to pay just enough. Listen, if he's going to take care of half of them and the law says he doesn't have to do it, that's fine. But that means he needs to take care of half of them, not 25%. Oh, there's a different number. Yeah.

You got 50% of the time, you got 50% of their expenses. Hmm. I think it's more than 25%. I don't think math is his strong suit. I might be wrong, but yeah. I just can't imagine thinking I'm going to hang out with my kids for financial benefit so I can save some money. I guess I'll hang out with them. That's disgusting. Well, I think here's the part. The core problem is you're trying to have an argument with someone who left and

and you don't need to have an argument with them. You just need to have an attorney that says this is what we're going to do, and you guys need to lay it down, and this is what the law says. If you want 50% visitation, that's fine. You've got 50% of the expenses of

of everything associated with them. It goes with the territory, and that's going to be a lot more than 25% of $2,800. So if his only motivation is seeing them 50% as he thinks he's going to get out light, then he's going to figure out, hopefully start doing that sixth grade math thing. It'll catch up, and he'll start to figure out it's more than that. But if he is actually wanting to be in their lives 50%, then I'll call him less of a scumburger than I did a few minutes ago. That's fine. But that does mean, dude, you got 50% of the expenses. That's how that number works.

So, yeah, you do need legal representation, hon, because you're trying to negotiate with someone that doesn't have any knowledge base in this law, and you don't either. So you got a little bit. You got the 25% number, because I didn't know that off the top of my head. But morally, it doesn't make the wife greedy if the husband pays child support.

It's the husband's job to take care of his children, just like it's the wife's job to take care of her children. That is not a greed issue. So don't let that drop on you. Wow. You're so old school, Dave. I'm telling you. But that's like common sense right there. You create a child, maybe take care of it.

But it's sad. I mean, we've seen this, that divorce turns marriage into a business transaction. And for that, it's wise to have counsel saying, no, I'm not going to let you get hosed on this one just because his feelings were involved, but what he thinks he should or shouldn't pay. It's not how it works. Yeah. His life's going to be rough. He left. I remember that part and left you with two kids.

Yeah, but his life's going to be hard. And he says he's saying that he wants to be involved. It didn't give me a lot of confidence there. She didn't believe it. I could tell she didn't believe it. But that's unfortunate. Yeah. Yeah, that's the...

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