Today's Lesson: Stop Taking Out Loans
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Live from Nashville, Tennessee, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshaw, and we are talking about your relationships, your money, your retirement, building wealth, the work that you do that you may or may not love. We're talking about everything. If you want to be on this show, give us a buzz at 888-825-5225. It's 888-825-5225. So, we're going to be talking about everything.

Let's go out to the home of Alice in Chains in the Great Soundgarden, Seattle, Washington, and talk to Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike. What's up, Mike? How you doing, guys? We're good. What's up with you?

All right. So I'll try to keep it real brief. Um, so I make really good money out here out in Washington, but super, super unhappy. I, um, with the union got good pension benefits and all that stuff, but super unhappy. So as my wife, she homeschools because of school suck out here and she wants to actually move out to Tennessee. Not sure what area, but I know I'll make less money. And I'm wondering if that's the right move to make me happy, even though, uh,

I'll make less money. How much is your happiness worth? You tell me. What's the dollar amount?

Well, I currently make about $42 an hour out here. And so you went all the overtime, the double time, that's really good money. But I'm stuck in two hours of traffic every single day, only driving 38 miles to home. The politics suck. The schools suck. I mean, there's nothing to do out here. So, dude, go back to my original question. You give me a dollar amount, dude. Because let's be honest, for a million dollars, not – I mean –

objectively, there's not a lot I won't do. But like, for $20, there's a lot I won't do, right? So you tell me. What's your number? Well, I mean, if I could make $30 an hour out there, I'd be happy because I know the cost of living is cheaper out there. Well, that you're probably wrong on, but listen. I don't know. I've never been out there yet. Go ahead. No, you go, John. Bro, get on a plane and come over here. Well, actually, we are in February or March. It's too long. It's too long.

Because here's why. You've already broken up with your girlfriend that is where you live. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. I'm making a metaphor, okay? Oh, oh, oh. Pretend you're dating where you live. You've already broken up with her. She just doesn't know you. You hate there. And there is no price to pay for a husband and a father who hates his life. Because his kids absorb that. His spouse absorbs that. And there's not a dollar amount for that. Leave. Leave.

Yeah. The question is twofold. Number one, get on a plane, get on a Southwest flight, you and your wife, and come spend a weekend in Tennessee. It will confirm what you're thinking. It's amazing here. And do some research on the interwebs on how much all of this costs and look for jobs. You're just sitting at home stewing and stewing and stewing. Work on the things you can actually control and beware of

Because the day you land here and you sign on the dotted line and you buy a home and you start your new job, you're going to walk by your rearview mirror and realize that you came with you. And so if you're a person who's just kind of miserable and kind of hates everything, you're going to be kind of miserable and hate everything here. If you're actually like a guy who's oriented towards positivity, you love your family, you love your kids, and you have some values that you want to be surrounded by, and you're just in a sick system, then yeah, man, you're going to be unleashed out here. Yeah.

Yeah, and that's what I want because I'm truly not happy out here, but I do love the money. How'd you end up in Seattle? Where were you before Seattle and how'd you end up there? I was in Arizona and my daughter from my ex was out here. And so we moved out here because I could make better money. And so, and I just been stuck here because of the money. God, dude, hey, did you grow up with not very much? Yeah, kind of. Tell me about, how'd you grow up?

I grew up in a crappy family. I had to start, God. So I joined the military right after I graduated high school and just been working job to job to job making low-end money. And now that I'm making really good money, it's really hard for me to just let go of that. It's hard because you attach your worth to a dollar amount. Since you were a little kid, that's been your ticket out. And what you've got in the meantime is a family who loves you.

And you have it internalized that that's worth way more than a dollar per hour amount. Very true. But I still got bills. I mean, granted, we can sell our house. And we are coming out there in February or March. That's too long. We don't have the money to do it though right now. Bro, don't make your kids have an angry, frustrated dad for six more months. I mean, it's summertime. They're able to do certain things during the summer and keep them busy.

But, you know, so what I'm doing is that I'm cashing out my vacation. So I'm not going to take vacation at all this year. I'm cashing it all out, using that money to provide for the flight. Okay, Mike, why did you call us? You already know what you're going to do. Why did you call us? I just want to know if, you know, is it the right thing to do financially? Or am I putting a mental block in it to stay here to provide or go out there to be...

I think your arms are wrapped around the dollar per hour amount you make like it's a Snuggie, like it's a pacifier and a blanket. That's what my wife says. That's the only thing that you look in the mirror and say, I have value and worth. And you have a wife and kids looking at you saying, we love you. And you're like, yeah, y'all shut up. I make 42 bucks an hour. And until you cross that great divide, bro, I don't even know how much debt you have. We'll get to that.

But none of that matters because you don't think you're worth a damn other than that dollar amount. And I can't convince you of that on a 10-minute phone call. Oh, I know. I agree. I agree. But that's your cancer right now. And until you detach from that, you're going to live in a house where you hate driving to work. You hate the job you do. You hate driving home from work. You hate where your wife and kids live. But God bless us, we make $42 an hour. That's madness. It's insanity. I know. I know. It's an illness.

Yeah, I mean, plus our house needs so much work. God, shut up with all that. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I know. All right, Jade, I'm going to be less than nice, and I like Seattle, so go ahead. You know what? I don't know why. My mind is going on another train right now, and I think...

I don't know if this message is really for you or for the folks listening because you called in, but I think sometimes we really get, we cling to the best scenario that we've ever had thinking nothing like this will ever come along again. And in this case, maybe it's a money or a paycheck. And I think sometimes it's like, listen, you gotta, you gotta, there's more where that came from. Do you know what I'm saying? Like there's more where that opportunity came from and like,

I'm going to just say it because I feel like it's in me to say it. Like gifts come from God, like every good and perfect gift comes from God. So if you had this opportunity that was there before you, it's because it came from God, whether you believe in him or not. And that means there's more where that came from. And if you hold on to something so tight and don't believe that there's more where that came from, you lose track of really what the source of that is. And Seattle wasn't the opportunity.

Arizona wasn't the opportunity. God provided the opportunity. And so wherever you go, there's opportunity. And so I just really want to let you know that. I don't know why. I know usually I'm here talking about dollars and cents, but...

That's what I feel like I'm supposed to tell you, so that's what I'm gonna tell you. And I feel like I'm supposed to follow that up with, "How do you like them apples, Mike?" No, I agree. I agree. You don't agree! You don't agree! Because as soon as you get off the phone, you're gonna put your last pay stub and you're gonna go, "Oh, $42 an hour. Aren't we beautiful?" You can make it again! And you can make more! What if you made $52 an hour out here? The what now? What if you made $52-- Yo, what? What? What? What? What if you made $50 an hour out here?

Oh, I would love to. It's just my job, if I were to transfer, I know my pay would be cut in half. I've already looked into it. Granted, I could do other things. Okay, listen, listen. Here's your choice. Choose misery or choose joy. That's your choice. Choose misery or choose joy. Ta-da! That's your choice, brother. And you got a wife and kids sitting in the wings waiting on you to make the call. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.

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This is the Ramsey Show, 888-825-5225. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshaw. The best way, the best way to make the most of your money.

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Hi, close, Carolyn. Oh, my bad. So close. Not sweet, Carolyn. Not sweet. What's up? We had a very bad situation last year. We had just moved to Kentucky. My husband and I were out walking on our property with our little eight-pound puppy. Our dog was attacked like nine feet away from us by the Belgian Malinois next door. We had to deal with... Wait, hold on. The Belgian what?

Malinois. Malinois. Is that like a big dog? I only know of Belgian waffles. Yeah, what is that? It's a police dog that the neighbor next door had. Oh, wow. Okay, so it's a big giant dog. It's a very big dog, and he got over the fence and attacked our pet, our boy. Okay.

Four days later, he died. But it was $9,000 in veterinarian bills. Yeah, it's awful. In fact, there are no words to describe it. The neighbor paid all but $1,500 because we were, well, we felt sorry for him. So he paid all but $1,500 of the vet bill, which was good. But that was, as you can see, it was extremely expensive. Yeah.

as well as being the worst thing that ever happened. Now, my husband is saying that we need pet insurance in case, you know, God forbid something like that happened again. The neighbor got rid of the dog, by the way. But we didn't know things like this could happen having moved from a condo in California. Well,

The insurance is $30 per month per dog. And we lived on a fixed income now and we're halfway. He wants to get the insurance and I'm thinking we ought to just save up some money. How many dogs do you have? And we currently have two other puppy homes. Okay. And you told me, I just want to make sure I'm clear. You said out of the 9,000 of vet bills, he paid all but $1,500? Yes.

Yes. Okay. Hey, I hate that you lost your pet. That really does. That sucks. I can't imagine coming home and knowing that something like that happened to my dog. So...

For the money side of it, here's what my brain thinks of. This is something that happened. It was a random occasion. You went your whole life probably with pets and nothing like this ever happened. So I wouldn't let this one terrible thing happening inform how you do things going forward thinking this could happen again. And then so I would not do the insurance, but I would say, okay, what would happen if I just put $30 aside per pet each month and just I always had an emergency fund for my pets.

What would that look like? That would be about $700 that we would have to save per year. Now, that's a great amount of savings, but we are living on a fixed income where even that, whether I spend it on saving it or pet insurance. Well, what's the difference? I guess what I'm saying is the fixed income part doesn't matter. You're either saving the $30 or you're not. Well, the deeper question is you can't afford this.

I mean, even if we said, yeah, go get pet insurance, y'all can't afford it. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. But he's thinking anything to avoid, to be prepared, actually, to be prepared for something happening. Do you guys have any money saved? We have about $13,000 in the three to six months. Okay. Okay.

And do you not feel like if something, you know, like I said, something bizarre, like what took place happens, something that you're completely not expecting, like a dog attacking your dog. Do you not feel like that what kind of falls under the umbrella of an unforeseen emergency? I guess I'm just trying to figure out why what what you have in place is not enough.

Well, I guess we haven't figured that that could have been used for an emergency like that. Of course, that would wipe it out if something, God forbid, happened again. Yeah, but you're living in a state of what-ifs. And I do feel like, I think there's two things that you can have financially in place that

that will help you. And then I do want to turn it over to John, because I think for you having a sinking fund, that's always there for pet maintenance, whether it be, you know, their yearly checkup or things like that, whatever you take them to the vet, having a sinking fund there for that, that's not part of your emergency fund is a good thing probably for you to got for you guys to have. And maybe that's you just putting aside, like I said, 30 bucks a month,

Or, and, not or, and, you have your emergency fund for the things that are truly emergencies that pop up. And maybe you say, you and your husband, maybe you decide, hey, when it comes to pets, this is what we're willing to spend and this is where the buck stops. Because there is something about that that you don't want to put your own well-being at risk for the risk of a pet. Well, okay, yeah.

Here's the other side of it, or the extended side. I just had one of my professors and mentors, Andy Young. Dr. Andy Young was on my show this morning, and he was just here in town. He's actually the guy that gave me the language, facts are your friends when you're dealing with trauma. He's the guy who trained me on crisis intervention, okay? And so under that guise, I want to walk through...

Like we know that when you experience a big, nasty, messy trauma like you experienced, it was terrifying. It was scary. It was bloody. It was a mess. And then there's a couple of days of touch and go. And then your sweet dog passed away. Okay. We know that happened. But if we back all the way out, financially speaking, this is just facts of your friends underneath the trauma. What's reality.

Reality is there was a $9,000 bill that the person who was downstream, no one's responsible for that kind of freak accident, but he paid for it. So you guys were out $1,500. The reality is you're not in a position where you've got an extra $60 a month. The reality is I've grown up with dogs my whole life. Jade's grown up with pet dogs. Everyone I know has grown up with pet dogs. And I've lived in the country. I've lived in the city. I've lived in the suburbs. I've never heard of this happening like this.

So, of course, you know, it's one of those things you really can't plan for. Who would have known? Well, exactly. But that's when that's when these what I would call very, very fringe programs will swoop in. It's the same as if you buy a lamp at Best Buy and they're like, you want the nine dollar insurance plan? It's like, no, I don't want that. Like, so just in case it's a just in case. And you're in a moment where things are sensitive.

And you still have that picture of what happened in that experience and that feeling. And so I don't ever want to feel like that again. So I'm going to make, I'm going to make purchases that don't make financial sense that actually don't make realistic sense because the final facts are your friends is you have 13,000 bucks in the account. God forbid something else happened that costs $9,000 and you were totally on the hook for it. You can write that check tomorrow.

And so what we're telling you is I want you to begin to uncouple the feeling of what happened then that's happening in the present. That's what trauma is. It's when your body reimagines in the present, re-experiences in the present something that happened in the past. What you went through was hell on earth. It was hard. It was scary. It probably will never, ever happen again.

And we're going to grieve it. We're going to be sad. And then we're going to go make the next right move. And the next right move is we're going to love our little dogs. I'm stunned by your neighbor.

Sounds like he was, or she was horrified, paid $7,500, got rid of the dog, right? Like went through a lot to do the right thing after an awful accident. So it sounds like everything in the world that could have happened after this thing happened in your favor. It's just hard to see it because of the trauma you went through, the experience you went through. And so what we're telling you is the next right move is not just to spend, just throw money at somebody.

I want to feel like I'm doing something so that I don't feel bad again, because I'm telling you, if God forbid this does happen again, you're going to feel bad too. And so let's don't try to mitigate our feelings of what's going to happen in the future. Let's look at data. And if insurance, life insurance, car insurance, home insurance, that's math. We need that. This is just kind of out there on the fringe and all that's buffered by the fact that you have an emergency fund already.

I think you and your husband go sit down and I want you to write this dog a letter and tell your dog how much you miss it. I know people who don't have dogs will roll in their eyes right now when I just said that. I want you all to write that dog a letter and let that dog go run and play in doggy heaven, wherever that dog happens to be right now. And then let's start looking at the math and looking at the real world that we have right in front of us. We'll be right back.

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills? How

I'm going to eat next week. Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. Like it's just, it is, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. 888-825-5225. This is the Ramsey Show. Let's go out to Cleveland, Ohio and talk to Tyler. What's up, Tyler? Good afternoon. How are you today? Outstanding, brother. What's up?

So a bit of a predicament I'm in. I currently have four kind of high interest loans that I've been making monthly payments on with an additional loan that was sent to collections for $20,000, an unsecured loan. I recently negotiated with the debt collectors to get a reduced payment of $12,000, which

I was fortunately able to come up with through some very caring family and selling off a few personal items. And in my research, watching your guys' show and everything and reading online, it's usually suggested to pay off the active debt first. I'm curious what your opinion would be in this scenario. I've already got them to agree to the lower amount. Should I use that $12,000 to just pay it off and be done with it?

Or should I dump that into my active loans, which would free up a significant amount of cash in my monthly budget? So to make sure I understand, you have these four loans. You were able to secure a deal on one of them? So I apologize. Five loans, one of them's in collection, the other four are active. Okay. The one that's in collection, I was able to negotiate a deal on. Okay. Okay.

Yeah, the one that's in collections, you need to clear that one up, especially since you were able to secure a deal. The only thing that I would tell you is make sure you get it in writing first. Don't pay the payment until you get them to either email you or snail mail you a copy of what will happen when you pay the $12,000. The balance will become zero. Make sure it's very detailed what the deal is, and don't pay the money until you get that. Have you asked for that? No.

I did already get it in email from them, from the debt collector. Okay.

Over the phone, they had specified that I asked them how it would be reported back to the credit agencies and stated that it would be reported as paid in full. Okay, good. However, in the written deal, I see that it says if I pay the $12,000 on or before the 31st, it will be accepted as a full and final settlement of the account. Now, that doesn't sound quite like paid in full to me. I think the second one's better, full and final settlement of the account. Okay.

That means it's over. The word settlement just kind of struck as this was settled for a lower amount, which I don't really want on my report if I can. But it was settled for a lower amount and it's going to be, they're reporting it that way. So that is the way it is, unfortunately. I just wanted to make sure. Two more things I want to add to that real quick. You got a second? Yeah, sure. Go ahead. Do not, do not, do not, do not let them do an automatic draft or automatic withdrawal of this money.

Okay. Would you, now I was thinking about doing a wire transfer. I got the information from them. Would paying through their online portal be advised or don't do that either? If I'm, I'm just telling you what I would do in my house. Okay. I would go to my bank and I would open up a secondary account and you can open an account underneath your main account. Right. Right. And I'd open an account and I would move that money into that account and I would give that number and then zero it out.

Okay. Because what I don't want them to do is have any path back to my original checking account in any way, shape, form, or fashion. Okay. The second thing is... With... Go ahead. With that secondary account that you say to open up, zero it out, and then once they take that $12,000, close that account,

I would. Should I? Because I know that automatic draft, like pre-authorized drafts that are done through like lenders and stuff like that, they can set it for an amount and there's not really anything I can do to stop it. And it can potentially overdraft an account.

Would you suggest putting on or removing the overdraft protection so they can't, you know, say they said they'll do $12,000, but then they try to charge, you know, $15,000. No, you will use their online portal and you'll put the dollar amount in there. We're not doing a draft. Oh, I got you. I understand. Yeah. Never open the door and say you go in there and get what you said you were going to get because they're going to get more. Gotcha. The second thing is, can we learn a lesson here?

Um, you stopped taking out loans. Yes. And so the, the, the downstream effect of that is who cares what's on your credit report. All your credit report is it's a register for how your relationships have been with debt. And at some point you got to decide I'm done. So I don't care what five ex girlfriends before said about you. You're married now. Who cares?

Gotcha. Understood. So I don't care what somebody's putting on my credit report. We're done dancing with debt. And so I'm going to get these other four things paid off ASAP, and then I'm going to be finished borrowing money. So put whatever you want on there. Awesome, man. Thank you so much. I appreciate the advice. All right, brother. Appreciate your call, man. Let's go out to Toledo, Ohio. Holy Toledo. And talk to Carly. Hey, Carly, what's up? Hey, how are you? Could not be better. What's up?

So I was looking into investment streams because I always wanted to retire like when I was like 50 or like younger than 59, like the normal retirement rate. And so I was reaching out to like financial advisors and I came across one person and they said to get an index universal life insurance where I can pull against like when I'm 50 and it like almost seems too good to be true. Yeah.

How old are you? I'm 21. Okay. I really love the fact that at 21, you're thinking about ways to build wealth and thinking about just, I mean, thinking about when you're 50. When I was 21, I was not thinking about the day that I would turn 50. So I really, I applaud you on that. I think that shows that you're just a mature person and you want to do what's right with your money, which is great.

I think also what you're learning here is that you have instincts. And when your instincts tell you that something's not right or too good to be true, that's generally the case. And so I would agree with the way you feel. Yeah, this is too good to be true. And I would run, run, run, run, run, run, run away baby from this, like in the words of Bruno Mars. So what I would do is tell me a little bit more about your financial situation and then I can kind of craft what I think you should do.

So I have a 401k and a Roth IRA that my old job used to pay into. And now I'm just depositing into it now, like about a hundred dollars a month. It's about like up to like $10,000 combined. Um, and then my current job gave me a pension that I pay 10%. They pay 14%. And, um,

I could touch that when I'm 55. So I was wanting something to bridge that like five year gap so I can retire earlier. Okay. So do you have any debt? I own a house. So that's like the only debt I have. Okay. Who are you?

A 21-year-old with all these retirement accounts who owns their own house, who doesn't owe any extra money. You're amazing. I love Dave Ramsey. I've been listening to him forever. So what percentage of your income total are you investing at this point? Probably less than, probably at like 15%. About 15%. Okay. And I also want to know, do you have any other non-retirement savings? Like do you have three to six months of expenses liquid?

Yeah, I have an emergency fund and like a high yield savings account that I control. Listen, very good. Very good. I want to know who your parents are. This is excellent. Okay, very good. So here's what I would tell you. I like what your goal is. I like that you're thinking about the fact that you need a bridge into retirement. Again, you're on the right path. The only thing is at this point, since you are investing 50,

15% already, my next focus for you would be to get your house paid off. Like let's walk the baby steps in order. And then once you do that, obviously you're building equity there, which,

I don't, you know, I don't know what your plans are. I mean, you're 21. At some point, you're probably going to sell that house. You'll meet somebody that you love and, you know, but that would be my next move is to start paying that debt down. And then when you're done with that, you can go to the moon. Like you can invest as much as you want. I'd probably finish up.

If you're not already maxing those 401ks and those Roth IRAs and those pensions, I'd max that. Then if you can move into something just like a brokerage account, like you said, for a great bridge, just a normal brokerage account, you can invest four ways, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth and international. You can do that in mutual funds. And that's what I would do if I were in your shoes.

Dave Ramsey says get a life insurance policy. That's not like the full life insurance policy. You need term term life is what you need. And it's for people who depend on your income. That's what that's the purpose of having life insurance. It's to replace income for people who depend on it. And you can find that at Xander insurance, by the way. There we go. This is the Ramsey show. We'll be right back.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey good folks, it's Deloney, and with back-to-school madness on deck, my family's schedule is already so packed. And we haven't even made room for things like exercise and date nights and counseling and all the other things that make our life even worth living. When it comes to taking care of me, I have to remember to put on my oxygen mask first, meaning I have to do the things that help me stay well and whole. And you have to do the same thing too.

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Be sure to put your oxygen mask on first and never skip therapy day. Call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Delaunay today for 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Delaunay. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Today's question from Madison in Washington. It's the Ramsey Show question of the day.

I'll read it here, Jade. Sorry, I made that intro kind of weird. It was a little weird. I got you, though. Thank you. All right, you read it. Several years ago, my husband was accepted into an out-of-state college program. We had just had a baby, so I had to continue working to support us, even though my goal in life was to stay at home and be a stay-at-home mom to raise our kids. Last year, he failed all of the board exams, and now I'm left feeling I gave up everything for nothing. I'm sorry, I made that intro kind of weird.

I worked so hard to put him through school and he didn't take it serious enough to pass. I lost time with my two kids when they were babies and I resent that he was able to do what he wanted to do while I put him through school. How do I get over it? I love him and he is the best father to my kids, but it just eats at me. I have thoughts. What do you say, mama? You know, here's the thing.

You had to have gone into this knowing that there's always more options than what you're hoping will happen.

That's my first thought. My first thought is you say, okay, of course, yes, the idea is you'll work even though you didn't really want to. It'll help pay for school. He'll go to school. The hope is that he'll pass the boards and everything will go swimmingly. But you also have to plan and mentally have a space for if that doesn't happen. And I think that's probably where things started going awry is there was only one path and that was the way and that's what's going to make it all worth it. And when that didn't happen, I think that was really a big blow for

I want to know. I wish I could ask questions because I want to know more about the he didn't take it seriously enough to pass. And I want to know, is there another like, can you keep going? Yeah. Like this is not. Yeah. This is not the end of the it doesn't have to be the end of the road. Yeah. So there's more to the story. I don't know it. John.

Anytime you start keeping score in a relationship, especially in a marriage, it's over. It's over. Well, you got to do this so I get to do this and I get to do this. It is a group decision that we all make together that someone's going to school. It's a group decision that we're going to move. It's a group decision that I'm going to quit this job and take this new job and that means your role at home is going to shift and

When it doesn't go your way or when it doesn't work out like we planned, then we have to be adults and plan for the next thing. We can't go back and be like, well, you said you can't live like that. Yeah. It's a choice to be miserable in the present. Can I bring something else up? I might be wrong. And you tell me because this is your area. She said yes. Maybe she should have said no. Yeah.

Said you haven't proven that you're like, you've never been a good student. I've known you forever. You don't like school. You don't. And I've had some wild hair adventures that my wife has said my vote is not a good idea.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. And we don't say like, no, you can't. That's not how we talk to each other. But I trust her wisdom and I powdered about it for a few days and then I look up and she was right. So I kind of wonder then this is just me because I, you know, when you guys call in or write and I'm filtering things through what if this happened in my life? I think part of the resentment could be and I'm just I'm throwing a long shot here just based on Jade.

It might be me really feeling like I'm mad at myself because I know I should have said no, but I said yes. And it's hard. It's easier for me to be resentful of him than to be mad at my own self. That's me all day. And it's easier to blame somebody for the choice that I made or I didn't speak up. Or maybe this isn't a safe relationship and she felt like she couldn't speak up. That's also true. But here we are two years later.

Three years later, however many years later, he failed the boards. My first question is, can you go back and take him again? Can you go back and take him? Second is, we all agreed on this. Yeah. We agreed. And you don't just not take it seriously at the very end. You don't take it seriously throughout, right? Yeah, that's a pattern. So there were some conversations that weren't said and weren't had. And I think you might be into something. I will say this until I'm blue in the face. In marriage, especially...

secrets will destroy your marriage. And if you keep them, they'll destroy you. And so if something is quote unquote eating at you, you have to have the courage to put it on the table. And I want you to put it on the table, Madison, with I language. Anytime you start a conversation, a hard conversation with the person you're married to, and you start with a finger pointing, you say, you didn't take this seriously. You cost me two years of my life with my babies or whatever.

he's going to wall up because he has to go to war. Now he's being attacked. If you sit down and say, I'm struggling with regret and we're struggling with resentment.

I didn't speak up. And now here we are two years later, we are in the hole. We left our families, left our friends. I missed time with the babies and I'm not doing good. This whole thing's eating at me. That's an invitation. Yeah. And that's the way you got to have that conversation. But if you just sit there and let it eat at you for things that happened in the past, you're, you are affirmatively choosing to burn your current relationship to the ground. So is this a, is this a point, John, where, you know, I hear you say all the time guilt over resentment, like should she have felt guilty for saying, no, I don't want to do that. I don't want to sacrifice this time with the kids.

And I'd rather feel guilty for quote, you know, air quotes, not letting you do your dream than me be resentful of missing that time and it not happening. Speak up. Speak up. Speak up.

There's just, I could go on this letter. I could go on about all day because there's a lot going on here. The fact that what glaringly is obvious to me that I put him through school, that hurt me. I was like, yikes. Because he's probably thinking I missed out on X, Y, and Z because I was in classes in school. I missed out on time with my kids because I was in school day and night. And by the way, for almost all of these type of situations, the question, how do I get over it? Starts with, I'm going to choose to move on.

And you, she won't make that choice to move on. Can I highlight something else? Yeah. She feels powerful right now. He failed. She feels powerful and it's good. It feels good just to sit in it. I want to highlight something else in the comments might badger me for this. This is okay. So whenever somebody says this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, but he's such a great father to my kids. Shut up. Shut up. It makes me, there's something there that I'm like,

it just for me it's a little bit of a flag as to yeah but you're not saying anything that he is to you yeah does that make sense absolutely yeah just throwing that out there yeah seat council seat council let's go out to fort lauderdale and talk to eddie what's up eddie

Good afternoon, guys. Thank you for taking my call. You got it, man. What's up? So, I've done the Ramsey-ish. I'm planning to retire in December. And...

My nest egg is really good. I have $50,000 worth of credit card. I'm planning to pay off at least $20,000 of it and a balance of $30,000. I have $1.1 in my nest egg. Do you think it's wise just to take out that $30,000 from my 401k, pay it off, and get rid of it? And that's it. That's

That's my only debt. My house is paid off. It's worth close to $800. I have no more debt, no nothing. And that's it. Hey, good job. How old are you? Yeah, I'm 60 right now. Okay, very good. I love that you've been diligent. You've paid off the house. You've got $1.1 million. Tell me a little bit more. Where did this credit card debt come from?

And are you done with credit cards? I'm done with credit cards. Are you? Yeah, well, it doesn't sound like it.

Well, I'm a very generous guy. So when I go out with my kids and all that stuff, I got a guy. So I'm that guy. I'm that guy. So lately, my wife has found me. She said, no, you don't need to be that nice. OK, you're about to be on a fixed income. You're about to be on a very fixed income here. So I want to make sure that you understand that part of it.

Yeah, no, I know we have done the numbers, me and my wife, and this is only my side. She has no debts whatsoever. I know what you guys teach is our debts, but I wanted to fight this because...

Because she's really good and I'm really horrible. So I'm like, no, honey, I got this. Eddie, that ego is going to drown you, brother. That is 100% male ego. Let it ride. No. Let it ride, homie. It's going to bury you, Eddie. Okay. Okay, if I told you you could go to the bank and take out a loan at 30%, would you do that? Oh, hell no. Okay, that's what borrowing from your 401 is.

Hey, before you make this decision, I want you to sit down and work with one of our Ramsey trusted advisors on this because you don't want to make this decision alone. I truly don't trust that you're ready to make this decision alone. You need somebody to look at the numbers. We'll put the information in the show notes for you to make sure you're talking with somebody who can tell you if you're truly ready to retire, considering your numbers and your wife's numbers. Thank you so much for listening to us. This hour is in the books. We'll be back soon right here on The Ramsey Show.

Hey folks, Dave here. And I know some of you listen to the show waiting for a call that answers your specific question. Maybe you need help with budgeting or investing or saving your emergency fund, but wouldn't it be great if you could get the answers you need right when you need them? Well, I got great news for you because you can, when you download the Ramsey network app, you get our advanced AI search that lets you easily find the calls that matter to you.

You can also browse by topic to find answers for the exact things you need help with. That means you don't have to simply hope the next call will be the one you've been waiting for because the Ramsey Network app lets you have control. And with over 7,000 hours of life-changing content, the Ramsey Network app is the best place to find the answers you're listening for. To get access to personalized content for free,

Just search Ramsey Network in the App Store today. Live from Nashville, Tennessee, this is the Ramsey Show, where we talk about your money, talk about building wealth, we talk about your mental and emotional health, the work you do, all of it.

I'm John Delaney joined by Jade Warshaw. We are taking your calls live at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Whatever you got going on in your life, give us a buzz. And if we don't have an answer, we've got an opinion that we will make up on the spot just for you. Let's go out to Fargo, North Dakota. Fargo. So many things I want to say about Fargo, but I'm not going to. Why are you saying it like that? Let's talk to Amanda. What's up, Amanda?

Hi, am I on or not? You are on in front of all dozen of our listeners. What's up? So we consistently create some financial gains and then we consistently fall back down into the pit. A lot of, usually due to our layoffs,

And I guess I just, I don't know how to break this cycle and trying to figure out what to do. Should we continue in this, what we've been doing financially? Should we, or should we make some changes? I don't, I don't really know what to do. How many layoffs? How many times has this happened? It happens twice a year. So we have a week off in July and two weeks off December, January. So you can, you know that they're happening every time. Yeah. Okay. So that actually makes me plan for it. Say again.

We plan for it. We have enough money to make it through. We've reached the point where we no longer have to take out debt in order to survive the layoff. So if you're planning for it, where's the problem?

because I'm tired of falling back down into the same, no savings, no, like it just doesn't seem to end. So, okay. So then I think we have a situation of we have different definitions because for me, if you're planning for it, then there's no loss of gain. But you're saying that every time it's taking you down to zero. So whatever progress you made, there is no progress. And I'm saying- Yeah, I suppose.

So is that right? Because I'm thinking, OK, if I know there's going to be a layoff in July, how long is the layoff in July again? It's a week. One week. OK. And then and then I've got a two month layoff January and December. Right.

So I'm thinking, OK, yeah, I'm thinking throughout the next 10 months, basically, I've got to make sure in 10 months I'm planning that I have enough for two months. So I'm always kind of like packing it away like a squirrel and I've got it there waiting. And that's that's on top of and aside from emergency funds and all the other things that we're doing. It's almost like a sinking fund that you're creating.

So what I'm thinking is that the income that you guys do have, it might be tight as it is. Am I right? Yeah, it's pretty tight. Okay. So what's your husband earning? I've never, what's that? What are you and your husband earning? I have not had a real job in 12 years. Why? I'm a stay-at-home mom when I homeschool my children. Okay. He makes $45 an hour with zero benefits.

No PTO, no sick time, no dental, no vision. What type of work is it? What type of work is it? I use a contractor in a factory. He's a contractor. And no benefits. Okay. Tell me more about Fargo, North Dakota. Why are you guys staying there? That's where the Lord has called us. My husband is very involved in the ministry. We're in the process of starting a church, and we just were very involved in our ministry.

in our home life and okay and I don't know that's why we're there so you think the Lord calls you to a situation where you're terrified of your ability to feed your family every month um well we're not that bad I have at least three months supply of food in my house at all times it never goes below that but I don't really feel like it's time to leave the town that we're in we're in a small town near Fargo is he working 40 hours a week

um right now he's doing 50 to catch back up and put more in us okay so saving so before taxes i'm looking at the numbers before taxes and it's not really that bad what is he actually bringing home because there's no medical there's no two thousand one hundred and sixty eight dollars i believe was today's paycheck yeah but i mean for the month it varies

What was your household income last year? I don't really know. Okay. Okay. I think that's part of the problem. That is a big part of the problem. So the first thing here is if I ask somebody what they're making and they don't really know, then I know they can't be keeping a clear budget and a tight budget because...

That's just part and parcel to it. It's a month to month. I do a month to month budget. I don't do a year budget. And I wouldn't advise you to. I would advise you to do a month to month. But when you're doing a month to month, you still have an idea of here's about what we bring home. Here's a good month. Here's a bad month.

Right. And so I think that you guys could tighten up a little bit on that unless you just were like, Jade, I got nervous. We're on live radio. Like I get that. I am nervous. I do know the numbers, if not in front of my computer. I got you. And it's also hard because he just he just got fired from his job and now he's at a different job. So he's got five dollars an hour less pay. So I don't really know. OK. Yeah.

So we've had a big change. Are you doing an every dollar budget?

Every month. I don't know what that means. So here's how I run my budget. My budget is everything is in a spreadsheet. Every bill we have is in my spreadsheet. I have the total at the bottom and then I have that divided by four because that's how many paychecks we get in a month. It's a week to week. And then every single week I take that divided number. So today was $670 approximately. Okay. I'm going to simplify your life. I'm going to simplify your life.

before we get off this call, I'm going to make sure you get set up with every dollar. It's going to make it so simple. It's going to be at your fingertips. So much of it is going to do the work for you, which I think could be helpful for a stay-at-home mom who's homeschooling, right? Anything to take something off of your plate. So I think that's going to give you a clearer picture just on a daily basis on what's going on with the numbers. The transactions can automatically come into every dollar and you can see

See it at a glance, which I think is something that will help. And it will help you come up with how can we create a line item where we're always putting away for those off months so that it's separate from everything else.

Yeah. Yeah. I put $300 away every paycheck. Right. But we want to make sure what, what you called in and said is even though we're doing that, I still feel like we're going backwards. And so I want to make sure that that doesn't happen anymore. So do you guys on top of the money that you put aside for his off months, do you guys have three to six months of expenses?

No. Okay. That's not even close. That's the, that's the goal. That's what we want to get to. Because if you have both of, if you have three to six months of expenses, if you have a, a, another fund set aside for when he's laid off, then you're not going to feel that way.

And by the way, if you haven't started paying off debt, that's probably going to be a step in this process too. So hang on the line. We're going to get you set up with Financial Peace University because I have a feeling that you're doing a lot of the right things, but they may be out of order and there may be a way that we can really optimize this for you and really help you get to a point to where you feel like you're only going forward and you're never going backwards. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Real quick.

Just stop what you're doing, not because I'm about to ruin, but because it takes two seconds to subscribe, like, hit the thumbs up button, leave a five-star review. Whatever you got to do, it's a way for no money. It doesn't cost you anything, but it's a way to help out the show. But more importantly than the show, it's a way to help out your neighbors. Because the more you like and share the show and leave five-star reviews, the more it kicks it up into the internets and the algorithms. And it puts it in front of your neighbors, and it gets them some of the life-changing information.

freedom and peace and hope missing from traditional media these days. So please, please, please like and subscribe to the show. It's a gift to us, but more importantly than us, it's a gift to your neighbors. Thank you so, so much for being in our gang. Let's go to Knoxville, Tennessee to the K-Knox and talk to Kat. Hey Kat, what's up? Hey, hi, Jade and John. So I'm trying to figure out how bad or how good my situation actually is.

I'm 68. I'm retired. I have a decent fixed income. I have a mortgage, but no other debt. And I have three months of emergency savings and nothing else. Okay. So you're on the fixed income right now. Is that fixed income enough?

It is just enough. I don't have a complete handle on those annual expenses that pop up. And so I've been a little overspending, but I feel like with what I have, I can get a handle on the annual and I can definitely cover my basics. Okay. And the mortgage, how much do you owe on it? $350,000.

Okay. And what's it worth? And I will say I am committed to keeping this house because of an obligation to a family member. Okay. And so that's... And plus my whole life, my whole retirement is built around this land here, which has

As a small farm and income potential. So I just want to say that's not on the chopping block at this point. I'd have to be going into foreclosure before that would go. Listen, that's your choice. And I'm not opposed. I'm not saying I'm opposed to it. I just was wanting to get an idea of your whole picture. I'm assuming it's on a 30-year?

A 30 year fixed under 3%. Okay. And how many years have you been paying? Basically, when do you pay it off? Like two. Oh gosh. Okay. Yeah. So I'll be, I'll be quite old. 88. Okay. So with your fixed, here's where I'm at with your fixed income. You're like you said, you're getting a handle on the annual stuff, but it's not allowing you to make extra payments to pay this off any faster.

No. And it's not, or is to save money. I mean, one of my questions is assuming I can make some more money, I think I have some ways to bring in a little extra money, maybe even a lot. And I would do that. And if I did that, would I invest it? Or would I pay off this mortgage that doesn't have much of a chance of ever actually impacting my monthly experience? I would invest it because walking through the baby steps, um,

The next baby step for you would be to be investing 15% of your income. And in this case, probably anything that you get above and beyond, right, would go towards that. So for that reason, I would. And the truth is, I mean, like you said, most of us plan on living, right? And so if you plan on living, then you're going to look up 20 years and that money will have grown and it will be money that you can have and pull from. So I would do that. I would do that.

I mean, I think for you, because you said the house is not on the table, then that's really your only option is to say, I'm going to live a life that's on this fixed income. And I'm going to the only other thing I might do and I would do is get your emergency fund up to six months of expenses. OK, I would do that. And then past that, I would just start investing 15 percent or whatever above and beyond, you know, whatever your side hustle brings you.

Okay. And the other part of this question is, how bad off am I? Should I be like, my feet are on fire, I have to make more money? I would because...

like you said, you don't have much wiggle room and all it takes is for something to go wrong. And you're like scrambling, like you're in this house. Hopefully everything's good, but you're also have a lot of land. And when I see that, I'm like, okay, there's a lot of opportunity for things to require money. And so even though you have six months of expenses saved, if something happens and whittles it down to three months, well,

Well, how long is it going to take you to bump it back up? Right. You don't want that to take forever. So for that reason, as much money as you can pack away, you know, obviously whatever you can, you know, invest and have compound interest working on your side is a good thing. So that's what I would do if...

I mean, I can just tell you if the house was on the chopping block, I might suggest downsizing. But in your case, I don't think that it is something that you're going to do, so we won't even talk about it. Tell me about this family obligation. I finished this house with three living spaces and with a promise that my cousin could retire here and save for life. And I'm not breaking that promise.

And she's here. And we both want to be here for life. So all the activity and the way I plan to live my retirement is tied up in this land. Is she contributing in any way? She has, but it's not a monthly cash. So the contribution is done. So it does not help me in a monthly way. Okay. Yeah. I just have to be honest with you. Did you say you were 68? Yeah. Okay. It scares me for you. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It scares me for you simply because you're entering into a space where you don't have the flexibility financially to have the lack of flexibility in all areas of what you want to be true. Right. And so it's...

I've got some acreage out here outside of Nashville and I feel like every month something comes up. I got to pay for that. I didn't expect. And there's something with the well or something with the power or something with something. Right. And man, you get into thinking it's going to be a farm producing and we're going to grow grass. We're going to have people. It is a thing after a thing, after a thing, after a thing, after a thing. And at a million years, I wouldn't have expected that. But beyond that, here's, here's the, here's the part that makes me the most nervous. Um,

And we talk about financial peace and we talk about like, I want to be a millionaire and all that. For me personally, that's never really spoken to me. Here's what's spoken to me. I think it was two years ago now. One of my cousins who I loved, he suddenly passed away. You know what? I'll give you a more realistic example. Today, one of my closest friends in the world's mom passed away after a bout with Alzheimer's. And he said, here's the date of the funeral. I'd love if you could be here.

And I checked on nothing. I said, I won't miss this. And it's because I have an emergency fund and it's because we have built these things up over time that I don't even have to check. I know I've got the money to go be with my friend and his family during this time of pain. And so my concern for you is you've locked yourself into this thing. I will never change this no matter what, come hell or high water. I made a promise, even one that I didn't even know I could financially keep, but I made it.

And so I'm just going to, I'm going to live a life on a fixed income. And that just makes me nervous for you because life doesn't work like that. Generally speaking, if it did, we wouldn't have this show. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, and there are definitely situations that could lead to changing that. And then, you know, maybe in 20 years, we'll, you know, we'll both be ready for something different. Maybe. Yeah. But, but to back up what Jade said about the, about the investment, if I were you and you're still, you still have the ability, I would be out there hustling work tomorrow.

I think you have to. I could get one job, two job, and I would dump that into investments. It'll double every seven years. And so I think 21 years from now,

They will have doubled and then doubled and then doubled again, whatever amount you put in there. Yeah. You have to think of this as you've made two choices. If you've made the choice to keep the house, then you've also made the choice that you're going to continue working. And I think as long as you do it like that, you'll be okay. And to answer your question, if you're on fire, I would say, you know, Scoville meter, you're probably pretty far up there. Like you're pretty hot. It's pretty hot, but you got to work. As long as you work, you can keep the temperature down. As long as you work and you put that money away. Yeah.

This is The Ramsey Show.

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888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Jade Warshaw. All right, so this is Deloney Vulnerability Time. Over the last few years, I've been sitting by Dave, I've been sitting by Jade, I've been sitting by George. Never with Rachel, but with all my fellow personalities. And they will say something about money, because I don't know much about it.

They'll say some kind of retirement vehicle or they'll say like 50 whatever. And I will be thinking in my head, I don't know what that is. And I'm on the radio in front of millions of people. And so off air, I'll ask them like, hey, what was that? And sometimes I just ask them on air like, hey, real quick, stop. So we're doing a new segment.

called Asking for a Friend, because we know that you are out there listening and we're talking about retirement investing. We're talking about 501s, talking about 401ks, talking about all these different things. And you're wondering, I don't know what that is. And I just Googled it or put it in chat GPT, but I don't fully get. So we've got you. We've got you. So today's Asking for a Friend segment is on what is retirement investing?

It's such a good question. And no one wants to admit that they maybe don't know, to your point. So a lot of people hear the term retirement investing or my retirement account. And they're afraid to ask really what this means. Why is it different from other investing? Because it's something that as adults, we feel like we should know, right? You don't want to be today years old when you find out about it. But luckily, it's really not you who wants to know. It's your friend. So take a look at this. You don't have enough money. Okay, right here.

It says right here in this account we have $401,000. Jackpot! You missed it! Nope. Uh, that says you have a 401k account. If you liquidate that right now, you'll have, you know, maybe $5,000. So what happened to the other $396,000? Boom. Gotcha! What is wrong with the two of you?

That sounds like me and Dave on a regular basis. Oh my gosh. Listen, you know, we're laughing at it, but it's very true. I remember talking to somebody and I said, well, are you investing at all? And they said, no, I mean, I have my 401k, but no. And I was like, oh, you are investing. Do you have any debt? No, I don't have any debt. I mean, except for my car, my student loans and my mortgage and that loan I took out on the pony. You're like, what are you talking about? Well, I mean, the truth is a lot of people, you know, you go to your job and they get you set up and it's like, do you want to invest? Do you want to?

put money into your 401k. Okay. You know, but they're not really explaining to you what's going on. Okay. So let's learn about this today. Let's talk about what retiring investing actually means for your friend who is confused. So really there's really two vehicles. When we talk about retirement investing, this is money that when you are of retirement age,

It's there for you because after a while, you're not going to be working your job, getting your normal check. Right. And so you want to make sure that when you get that age, there's money for you. So for most people, you know, retirement age is fifty nine and a half. So these accounts you once you put the money in, you can't get to it until you're fifty nine and a half. OK.

So there's really two vehicles that most people will see. You see a 401k and that's it comes in a traditional form where you pay the taxes right when you put it comes in a traditional form where you put the money in and you pay the taxes on it later. Or it can come in a Roth form where you pay the taxes now so that when you pull the money out later, you don't have to pay the tax.

Right. And these are all this is employee sponsored. When you go to work at a job, they say, hey, we've got this account for you. You can put money into it and invest it and it'll be there for you when you need it. OK, then you could do another type of account that has absolutely nothing to do with your job. Right. Maybe you're self-employed or you're just, you know, not there. Are you taking notes? Taking notes. Taking notes. Get my learn on.

Anything, any kind of earned income you have, you could say, well, I'm going to go out on my own and do my own

retirement investing. And if that's the case, you would do an IRA, right? It's basically an individual retirement agreement, I think is what it stands for. And so that's you aside from your job saying, I want to invest for retirement. And it's the same idea. You've got the traditional option where you put the money in and then you pay the taxes later when you take it out or the Roth version, you put the money in, you pay taxes on it when you put it in. And then when you take it out, you don't have to pay the taxes, right? That's what we're talking about. And

And so that's really what it looks like. If you're a school teacher, you might have a 403B. If you're in the military, you might have a, I think it's a 459, 559, I can't remember, but they take different, those are the tax treatments, those different numbers. And so everybody's got access to one or the other, but that's the point here. It's money that you're putting aside so that later it's there when you're ready to retire. That's the whole point. So if you're not investing,

and it's time for you to invest, I would say you need to do it. So then most people are like, okay, how do I know when it's time for me to invest? So let's talk about that a little bit. John, you got your notes ready? I'm ready. Let's do this. All right. You do the first one because you know this. What's one thing that you should have in place first before you start retiring? An emergency fund. Yay, yay. I got to take care of my today before I start

trying to plan for my tomorrow. I love that. That is just like something that would be hanging on. Yeah, that's like stitching to a pillow. You get it at like, at like, at Michael's or something. That's like in Michael Scott's office, like hanging in a frame. All right. So what I was testing John on is basically the baby steps, right? So this is a format to know if you're ready to invest first. And then you're ready to invest

If you have debt, we're going to walk you through it. First, you need $1,000 saved. That's your emergency fund. It's just there as a cushion. And then baby step two, we want you paying off all of your debt except your mortgage, right? Once that debt is clear, because remember, debt is risk. Once that's clear, you're going to save up three to six months of a fully funded emergency fund. This is making sure that you are set. Like come hell or high water, you are ready to go. Okay, that's what that's about.

Then when that's done, now we start investing 15% of our income every single month into that retirement vehicle. For most of us, it's a 401k. For a lot of us, it might be then going to a Roth. So that's the framework. Some of you are now saying, well, Jade, 15%, like that's great. But how do I know? Do I do the 401k? What can I do beyond that? Let's talk about that. All right, John. So

Let's say you're asking the question, well, Jade, I looked and my employer is offering a 401k. Do I invest there or do I go to the Roth IRA? This is how you want to think about it. Most employers offer some sort of match, right? 3%, 4%, whatever that is. If you have a match, that's the best thing you can get because it's free money. So you always start there. You invest up to your match. And then for most of us, unless your 401k is a Roth IRA,

because that's the best option there is, unless it's a Roth, then you would say, okay, I'm up to my match. Now I'm going to go over and do a Roth IRA, max that out. And then once that's gone, then you can come back to your traditional 401k, finish that up. And that is really, really good. If you still have money that you can invest, then you could go and go into another type of account. That's a non-retirement account. You could do a brokerage account or something like that. So like just to break it down for a simpleton like me. Go for it.

Let's say I work at a company and they give me a 5% match. And so I'm going to put 5% of my income into that account and take their free money. That's right. Right? Yeah. The 5% is usually on income. 5% of your income. And we get this question a lot. So that adds up to 10%, but we're going to put 15 of our own money in that account. Mm-hmm.

So I put in five. Now I'm going to loop back over here and let's say I can put up to 7% of my income and max out a Roth IRA. So now I got 12%. Now I'm going to come back and say, okay, I'm going to up my original by another 3%. That's right. And so I'm going to have 8% and they're matching five. And then I'm going to have 7% of my income in a Roth and I'm walking away. And that sounds complicated, but I've taken 15%.

And I don't care what the match is. I'm not including that. It's just gravy money on top. That's right. And then I'm going to put 8% of my income into this account and I'm going to put 7% in that and then I'm walking away. Yeah. And you bring up a good point. So, you know, we teach 15% of your income goes away until you've paid off your house and then you can do whatever you want beyond that.

But some people say, well, Jade, man, my match is amazing. I get 7% match or 10% match or even 4%. Fine. Does that count towards the 15%? And you're right. It does not. It's on top of that. Because here's the thing. Life changes. And you want to be in the rhythm of investing 15% regardless. Because let's say you move away and now this employer doesn't do that same match or you decide to go into business for yourself. So many things can change. And you want that muscle built that you know is like...

When you get the money, 15% goes. You don't even have to think about it. So it's good. And also multiple jobs. Multiple jobs I've worked. They've come in and said, hey, we're having tough times financially. We're not going to lay people off, but we're going to drop the match to X percent. And if they drop the match to X percent and you've built that in...

Not a lot of people can then go, okay, during tough times, well, then I'm going to have to increase X percent of my salary. That's already part of our life. And so it just makes the gravy a little bit less. Very true. It doesn't hurt you financially on your bigger picture. That's so true. And hey, if you have more questions about investing, you can check out one of our SmartVestor pros and they can help you out. This is The Ramsey Show. All right, here's the deal. I need your help. Jade and I need your help.

We have this amazing Live Like No One Else cruise, and it is almost sold out. We've been talking about it for a few weeks now, maybe a couple months. It is almost sold out, and there is now a quiet competition for who is going to get credit for the last seats sold. And Jade and I are on together, and so I am shamelessly asking, if you are thinking about coming on this cruise, if you know we're going on this cruise, I'm going to surprise the loved one, I'm going to surprise my wife, I'm going to surprise my husband, we're doing this.

$600 deposit. That's all it takes, and these cabins are gone. We are running out of cabins, and you can help me and Jay defeat...

George and Rachel and Ken which is really what we want to do here here's the deal it's the ultimate debt-free celebration the vacation is for those of you who are on baby steps four and above seven days March 22nd through 29th we're going to be stopping in some amazing places and by we I'm talking about me Jade Rachel Cruz George Campbell Ken Coleman Dave Ramsey and a bunch of Dave's rad musician and comedian and other entertainers friends magicians the whole thing we're

We're going to Turks and Caicos. We're going to St. Thomas. We're going to Puerto Rico. We're going to the Bahamas. And we are going to eat well. We're going to have events. We're going to have music. We're going to have all kinds of chaos on this boat. Are you going to play your guitar? I might play the guitar. If George does, I will because they're going to need to get that taste out of their ears. And so, yes. Are you going to sing? You're singing, aren't you? Me and George are going to do a duet of more than words. Well, then we're duetting.

We're dueting. All right, here's the thing. We're almost out. We're almost out. VIP upgrades and many of the cabin types completely sold out. They're already gone. If you're trying to get your pick of the last few cabins, like the one with an ocean view, I think there's a couple left. Get your deposit in right now. $600 deposit now.

Book your cabin today at RamseySolutions.com slash Cruz. Not Tom Cruise. Cruz. C-R-U-I-S-E. Ramsey Solution. Maybe how you spell Tom Cruise. I don't know. That's correct. RamseySolutions.com slash Cruz. It is going to be a party. Come join us. All right, let's go out to Edmonton, Alberta, and talk to Amber, like the light. What's up, Amber? Hey, how's it going? We're partying. What's up?

Right on. Um, I just wanted to ask if you feel that we're in a position to increase our mortgage to buy our forever home or if we should be seeing foot and getting the mortgage done. Okay. Um, yeah, I want to help with that. Maybe give you a rundown of where we're at financially. Yeah. We've been doing, we've been doing the debt pay down, but backwards. So I started with the mortgage. So, um, I stopped that. We've got the emergency fund in place. Um,

Kids college funds were fully funded beforehand. Okay. I stopped the retirement savings. The only thing we owe now is $9,000 on a travel trailer that will be paid off by the end of next month. So then I have a bonus coming that's guaranteed that will put us into baby step six, basically. Okay. And we own a house that's worth about $685. We owe $149 on it.

um the perfect property just came up for us that we feel will be like long term and we have to increase our mortgage by a hundred and five thousand dollars to take that mortgage on okay um so let's think about it like this um i love that you're kind of getting back on track you're paying off the debt getting the emergency fund in place is it is it three months or six months that'll be four months four months okay are both you and your spouse working

Yes. Okay. I'm fine with four months. Kids college is on track. So when you sell this house, what will it bring you all said and done? We got about 500 in equity on it. Okay. And then the house that you're wanting to get, it's $100,000 more? Yeah. Okay. It'll make our mortgage about 255 instead of 149. Okay. And what's the monthly payment? Have you looked at the percentages? Well, I wanted to do it on a 10 year and that puts us at 22%.

Listen, yeah, I'm like, why not? Today, kid, today. Yeah, instantly. I love that you're doing a 10-year mortgage because you want to get this thing out of your hair. I love that it's only going to be 22% of your take-home pay. I mean, you're meeting all the parameters. And as long as you have peace about it, that's the final parameter. And so there you go. My only challenge to you, Amber, is to unclench your fist around the words forever home.

Yeah, fair. Because there's just no such thing, and life just has a bunch of twists and turns, and it's the coolest home for this season. And same as I've got a cool jacket that I got one time from Filson that I love, and I have some cool hunting gear that I got from Sitka. I don't wear those in the summer because it'd be 1,000 degrees, right? And so for that season, it's the best, and then we roll into spring, and then we just do what's right in front of us. So I don't really believe in the forever house kind of thought, but...

When it comes to numbers, you are right on. Good for you. Okay, awesome. Good for you guys. Congratulations. All right, let's roll out to Kansas City, home of Patrick Mahomes, and talk to Jennifer. What's up, Jennifer?

Hi, thank you for having me today. Of course, what's up? So we have an incoming senior, she's going to be a senior in high school, just trying to help her kind of figure out what the next step will be. So she's kind of a clean slate, just started working as a part-time job, but really doesn't have a lot of money saved, you know, anything. The vehicle that she drives right now,

It's one that my husband and I purchased with cash with the idea that that would be all of our children's car as they get 16. You know, it's just kind of an old beater. AC doesn't work, that kind of thing. My in-laws have offered or said they want to give her $10,000 cash as a senior present, whatever it is, total gift. But they have stated that they would really like for her to use this on a vehicle. Okay.

We would like for her to get a vehicle. We have been kind of in the starting to get her to brainstorm about ways to do that. Save money. What are you going to be able to afford? That kind of thing. Is that wise? What's your hesitancy? Yeah. Do what? Why does it bother you? What's your hesitancy?

I just think that's a lot of money that she could also have some of it in her savings to help her get started. Should we discourage the full $10,000 to go to a vehicle? Here's the deal. Once they give you the money, it's your money. Right. And if your apprehension is coming from the fact that you know that they have a record of giving and then those gifts come with strings, don't take the money. No, no.

No, no strings. If they're going to give you $10,000 and they're going to recommend that you use it to buy a car, if it was my house, I might buy a $7,000 car and put $3,000 in savings. Interesting. Or I might buy all $10,000. I don't know. I think I push back on that a little bit because...

If I'm thinking, I'm just, again, putting myself in these shoes. If I'm like, hey, my cousin could really use a car. I'm going to give him $10,000 to get a car. And I say, hey, I know you need a car. This $10,000 is for a car. And they kind of do something else with it. I think you can put something on a gift and say... No, you can. But you just get to decide whether you want to take that gift or not. Right. And in this case, I take it. I guess if we were...

I take it.

It gets, I mean, a $10,000 car, it's going to get her a great vehicle. That'll get her through college and beyond. Yeah, beyond. And then that frees up more because you're not, you're no longer saving for that. That frees up more of the money to do what you want to do, which go towards savings, whether it be, you know, for college or whatever, what have you. Okay. And so if you're, yeah, if you don't want to do the savings, spend, you know, $7,000 on a car, put $3,000 in savings or whatever ratio you want to come up with. Let's say you spend all $10,000 on a car.

I would put a dollar amount. I might show her, here's what semester one of college costs. And we're going to be in saving towards this dollar amount. Because a lot of kids say, I'm going to start saving for college. And it's kind of an amorphous thing. Here's what semester one is going to cost. We're going to start saving.

or here is what your books are going to cost at college or however you all have that worked out. And so she can have a target, a dollar amount that she can begin to see, I earned this and I only have to earn this much more to get this number. But it helps her work towards a project. But a gift is a gift. And if it doesn't have strings to it and you're raising a kid of character, I'd say go for it. What do you think, Jade? I'm with it. I'm with it. I think giving them a target is good for college. That was really, really important.

Thank you so much for joining us. We'll be back very soon right here on The Ramsey Show. What up, what up? This is The Ramsey Show live from Nashville, Tennessee. I'm John Deloney joined by Jade Warshaw. And we are taking your calls on your relationships, your emotional and mental health, your money, building wealth, retirement, all of it. We're talking about work you love, anything and everything going on in your life, work,

888-825-5225. It's 888-825-5225. Give us a call. We're taking live calls. Let's go out to Green Bay, Wisconsin, formerly home of Aaron Rodgers, and talk to Adam. Hey, Adam, what's up? How we're doing? How about you guys? We're doing fantastic, man. What's up? Well, let's start with the good. I don't have any personal debt between me and my wife. We run a business, and I'm drowning.

Business is drowning. Tell me about it. Well, we're the last of a dying breed, I'd say. We're still here trying to, you've got to live in milk and cows, and I just can't make it scale. I cannot make, I mean, I've worn out several pencils, and I just can't, I can't make it work. Can I ask a question? You made the point of saying you don't have any personal debt. Do you have what you're considering business debt? Yep.

Okay. How much? That's all in an LLC. Okay. It's an NL, okay. But how much? Uh, mortgage is 1.2 and there's 300 in open accounts. Cool, man. You can't breathe, can you? Nope. How long you been farming? Um, forever. Okay. So for those listening, um,

Normally, this is where someone calls and says they took out a $1.2 million loan for their business, and they're running a $300,000 revolving account, and we get all fired up and holler at them. And I want everyone listening to hear me slow down because my heart's broken for you, Adam. Because as a farmer who's been a farmer forever, you generational farmer? I'm fourth. 139 years. Wow.

This is you standing back and looking at a family legacy that's going to be different after today. And that's a death, and I'm sorry. I'm heartbroken for you. Tell me about the challenges you're having. When you say you can't scale it, is it the size of the debt? Is it the fluctuating prices? What is it? I mean, price doesn't help anything for sure. In 2015...

I took over from my dad and it, I looked at the spreadsheet and it wasn't going to work how he was doing it. So I, I borrowed, you know, I signed the paper and borrow the half a million bucks and some stuff happened and, and it didn't cashflow the first two, three years of it. Cashflow. Excellent. I was doing 700, $750,000 a year. Um, and,

And the price fell, and as soon as I couldn't cover my payment completely, my bank was not willing to work with me at all. And in the last year now, going back and forth, they sold me to an investment company in New York. And I have until the end of this year to either figure out how to make a full payment or they're going to foreclose on me. Family land? Yeah, 520 acres. Golly, dude. What's the payment?

$16,000 a month. Right now I'm paying the interest just a $10,000. What are you going to owe them at the end of this year? What check do you have to write? It would be $1.2. You have to write them for the full amount they're calling the note? They would be calling the note, yeah. Either they call the note or it would get re-signed for seven years at $16,000 a month. And you can't make that? Not with the current amount of cows I have right now. What would it take? 100 cows.

And what do you got? I'm milking 100 currently. I'd have to be 200 plus. Jeez, man. So what's the worth of this land? Pardon? What's the worth of the land? It's over 1.2 million. So can you... I mean, I don't want to be the one to say this, but I think selling it is worse than foreclosing on it. You're in a hard mess, brother. Yeah, it's... I mean...

I can, if I had. Are you breaking up or are you thinking through this? Sorry, I was getting away from my phone. Okay. You know, if I could get into $100. Adam, Adam, Adam, Adam. But that causes you going into debt, right? You've been doing this dance for a long time. I have. Yeah. Hear us sitting with you, man. We're not running from it, but we're not going to lie to you either. Right. You've been waiting for the next thing and the next thing and the next thing over the hill. And now you owe a million dollars.

And you have become, and you've read about these farmers. You probably know a few farmers like this. They get looped up in the debt cycle. And what the big investment firms want is your dirt. And they find farmers like you who are generational farmers who are trying to keep up with technology and the cratering prices. And they see 500 acres that's about to be theirs. Can you sell your way out of it the back way and keep the land at least? Do you have equipment and cows you could sell?

Yeah, my total assets is like $2.3 million with everything. Okay. What happens if you would go that route and you at least get to keep the land and keep your home? Turn your land into a grazing property or get with these guys who I just love, the carbon cowboys, and just run cattle for a while. It's better than losing 500 acres of generational property.

Yeah, it'd be better than losing it. I mean, that's my biggest fear. I've toured old dairy farms, man. It's staggering. But here's what I know. I've toured old dairy farms. I've got one in my family. And it's so hard to part with it. So that's why I'm just heartbroken for you. But you're about to lose all of it. And if you've got enough equipment and cows and tractors to walk it out the back door and...

Keep a small amount of cows and get with the carbon guys, cowboy guys, and learn how to farm without all the fertilizer and slowly rebuild this thing from scratch. You at least are hanging on to 500 acres of generational property. And they quit making that dirt a long time ago. That's what's most important in this whole equation. Otherwise, your pride's going to end up losing all of it. You and your wife are going to be in a two-bedroom apartment here this time next year. Yeah. I just, I don't, I don't know how to deal with

With the shame. I know. I got you. I got you. Hey, we're coming up on a commercial, brother. I'm going to hold you over because I want to keep talking to you for a minute, okay? So hang on. We're going to run to commercial and we'll be right back. And your bravery and vulnerabilities is a gift. And I'm grateful for you. Stay on the line. We'll be right back.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show. We are talking to our friend Adam in Green Bay, Wisconsin. And Adam is a fourth generation dairy farmer who like countless other farmers across this country is in to quote Adam.

Burned up several pencils trying to make the math work on keeping this farm alive. And as in many businesses, there's always another opportunity if we can just get to this next level and get to this next level. And Adam has found himself over a million dollars in the hole. And he's staring at a foreclosure at the end of this year that would take over 500 acres of generational property away and hand it to an investment crew out of New York City.

And right there at the end of the calls, we're navigating what do we do next. And Adam, you're here. Does that sound about right? Yep. Yeah. At the end of the call, you asked a really powerful question that I think every single one of us wrestles with. And we as a culture do a terrible job of talking about out loud, which is how do I deal with the shame? How do I deal with the shame of being the bottom of the fourth generation saying I'm the guy that had to call it?

Tell me about the shame you're feeling right now, man. It's terrifying. It's all-encompassing. It's all I think about. You can't wash that off. It's not like I'm an electrician and I can go pick up another job. This isn't what I do. It's who I am. I don't know how else to explain it. Are you a husband? Yeah, father to two little girls. You're a father, yeah.

So I know this is a little bit countercultural to a fourth generation farmer, but I'd like to challenge you that you're a husband and you're a dad. And then down the road, you, and if you're a person of faith, you're a child of God. And then down the road is what you do. And I think what you do now creates what happens for the next four generations. And those little girls get to see dad faced with a reality, not by his hand, but in his lap.

and they get to see dad choose his heart, right? Is he going to choose the path of we lost it all? And I'm saying this because I love you because I had some ego. I didn't want to sell all my equipment and net out of this thing. Or they get to see dad weep as people come by the tractor and they buy the pumping equipment and they buy the tanks and they buy all the stuff, but they got to see dad go for a walk with the few cows that he had left through the field that will still be our family field.

And unless I'm, I'm crazy, I don't know another path in front of you. And you decide, okay, um, I'm thinking about my, the family I have that, um, was on my wife's side that was dairy farmers. And now they've got some kind of grasses growing where it makes it. I don't understand what they pivoted to, but they're still farmers. They're still got, they still got fields out there. Um, they're just not doing the thing they were doing for a long time. And that seems like the choice ahead of you. And I, man, I just, it, it, it,

I could start crying here thinking about some guys in suits showing up from New York to take your 500 plus acres from you and your little girls. That can choke me up way more than get rid of a tractor. You know what I mean? Right. And I know I'm being dismissive, but I'm trying to say you don't have an easy path ahead of you. You got two hard paths. And if you've ever heard me talk about shame, guilt is I did something dumb when I took out that extra $600,000. Yeah.

That was dumb. I did that. Shame is I am dumb. I'm stupid. I crashed this farm. And I don't think you crashed the farm. I think you were about to clean up on a lineup that kept handing you tough situations to try to win that game. We'll say both columns. Okay. So fair enough. So what's your next right move?

The good news is you have an opportunity. You have an opportunity to do what John said. And although it's going to be painful for you, you have the opportunity to start something brand new and do it the right way. And I think that that's what your daughters are going to take away from this is plenty of us make mistakes. We do it the wrong way. But what, what differentiates it as a win is you get back up, you start again. And this time you learn from your mistakes and do it the right way. Yeah. Adam, Adam,

This is a big one and we're not gonna be able to solve this one here. Hang on the line. I'm gonna hook you up with both of my books here for free. I want you to have something that you can read while you're sitting there on the back porch, looking out over the field and distract yourself a little bit. So you're not just spinning out and spinning out, but you've done the math. You've sat with the bankers. You've sat with the debt repayment note right in front of you. You know that the math doesn't work.

And the next step is going to be pivotal to what comes next for, again, the next few generations. And given what you've told me in this short conversation, I'd tell you to sell the equipment and unload as many cows as you can and clear that 1.2 and get the banks paid off. And you're sitting on family property. And then when the dust settles, you figure out what you're going to do next. But, man, I would encourage you, don't because of ego and pride and shame, don't let them come take everything because God knows they will.

Thanks for the call, man. And thanks for your bravery. Thanks for being vulnerable in front of all these people. There's countless men and women sitting right where you are at their homes trying to figure out what to do next. And it's pride and ego and fear getting in the way of choosing the next hard right move. So I'm proud of you, man. Call anytime and we'll be with you. So let's go to Denver, Colorado and talk to Andrew. Hey, Andrew, what's up, man? How are you? Thanks for taking my call. We're good. What's up?

Hey, a little back story. About six months ago, I took a new job. Went from about $150,000, $160,000 a year down to $120,000. The job I took didn't quite work out, unfortunately. And so I've been looking for the next move. And my wife and I have explored moving to a state away and going to work for an old customer, my old employer. And I'm talking to them this morning, actually.

And we talked a little about what it would take to move out there. And then about an hour after I hung up the phone, I got a call from a competitor here locally for a pretty generous offer, about $200,000 a year to stay. And so I made a... My wife and I have kind of gotten jazzed about the idea of moving, staying away, going on a little family adventure. And then I got a call saying, hey, we'll pay you a bunch of money to stay. So my question is, is it...

you know, okay to go back to the company I'm talking to to stay away and say, hey, I just got another offer to stay here and you match it or is this just a decision we've got to make as a family saying, hey, are we going or are we staying?

I would definitely go back. I mean, you're seeing what your value is in the marketplace. And so I think that it's fair. I mean, this happened and it's great that your current position offered you more. So yeah, go back to who you were talking to and say, listen, I just got this offer and I'm not trying to play you, but it's enough to make me stay. And I'd really want to come work for you.

If you can match it and just start talking because there might be there might be other ways that he can match it in value, maybe not so much in salary. Right. There might be creative ways you can make this work. That's a great point. OK. And just frame it just like that. Call right back and say, hey, you know, I know it sounds uncanny, but I just got a call 10 minutes after we hung up.

I would honestly, I'd call him laughing. Like, you're not going to believe this man. I just got one dropped out of the moon and they're often bananas money. And so me and my wife have to work through it. Tell me where your final final is.

Okay. And listen, if he looks at you, I mean, if he talks to you on the phone and says, how dare you? You're playing me punk. Then you just dodged a bullet like the matrix. That's true. And if he laughs with you and goes, guy, business, let me go back and see what I can do, man. Cause we really want you here. That's a guy I might take less money for to go have a family adventure with. Rock on. I love it. Does that make sense? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. And, uh, Andrew, uh,

I'll tell Andrew, Jade, what we tell everybody. If you're good at what you do, there's always going to be somebody calling. There's always going to be opportunities. And so at some point you have to settle into what kind of life do we and our family want to live? And the dollar amount is a part of it, but it can't be the end all be all. Yeah. It's a goalpost. The goalpost is always going to move and you have to make the decision at some point to go, I'm content. And

And I'm good with this. Or what field do we want to put that goalpost on? But man, we got to make a life that we want to have. Yeah. And an extra 20, 30 thousand bucks when you have enough. It's not worth it. This is the Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, and I'm looking out into the lobby at all the beautiful people, and on the debt-free stage, we have Taylor and Meredith from Huntsville, Alabama, on the debt-free stage. That means you must have paid it all off. How much did you pay off? Oh, yeah, we paid off about $220,000. Whoa! How long did that take you? So, a little bit over seven years.

I know about that. Gosh, y'all kept going and going, huh? Yeah, it was a while. All right, so what kind of debt was this $220,000? It was our house. Touchdown! Dude, congratulations. And student loan. Student loans. And was the mortgage bigger than the student loans or the other way around? The mortgage was bigger, yes. Okay, all right. Wow, very, very cool. What's the house worth?

So the house now is probably worth a little bit under 400. Let's go. I love it. I love it. All right. What in the world was going on in your life seven years ago that you said, let's just

suck it up and get this thing done. Yeah. So we're recently married, probably seven, a little bit over seven years ago, bought a house, had some student loans. I'm an engineer, a little bit of a numbers person and just saw what we would pay in interest over time and really just wanted to attack the loan to, you

give us a little bit of financial freedom eventually that's a lot of financial freedom eventually when you said i'm a little bit of a numbers person your wife smiled a bit as though your bedroom is wallpapered in spreadsheets yeah big excel guy yeah you said that in a it's not great lots of excel lots of excel all right so you sat down and like like a good engineering nerd you said honey

Look how much interest we're going to save. And how did you receive that? Not so well at first. I agreed with everything he was saying, but it was more difficult putting it into practice for me, I think, just not spending money and saving and putting it towards the house versus...

Maybe going shopping sometimes. Sure, because that's not normal, right? Like it's not a normal practice. Most Americans aren't saying, you know what, I'm going to actively pay off my mortgage today. So in that way, you're kind of going against culture. What were you earning when you were doing this? So we started out probably around $80,000, kind of first out of school. And Meredith graduated a couple of years after that.

I did. And now we're around 230. 230? Wow. Wow. You guys kicked it into the highest gear. Oh, yeah. I mean, just one thing with that, during this period of time, Meredith's had multiple jobs. At one point, I think she had three jobs. Wow. Currently, she has a full-time job and then also a side gig. So she's really just attacked this and, I mean...

done a lot with two kids as well. Yeah. I was going to say, there's also two little ones over there also. Yeah. So, oh, go ahead. I was going to say, how'd you guys play this? Because, you know, part of it was a student loan, which by the way, how much was this student loan? I think it was around 40,000.

total. So you guys went into high gear for the student loan and then usually people would kind of take their foot off the gas and kind of be like, okay, we've done this. We're going to save up our emergency fund and then we're going to kind of lay back a little bit and kind of be more intentional about paying off the mortgage.

something tells me you guys were like no we're going we're going even harder yes we I think we definitely took our foot off the gas a little bit yeah when we had them we we kind of halted a little bit on the extra payments so it took us maybe a little bit longer than it would have to save for them as well for college and things like that but

We bought a minivan during that time. So Meredith now has a minivan and just, yeah, lived a little bit, a lot of trips, a lot of things with the kids. So I've been very fortunate to do a lot of that. We live in a culture that wants everything right now. You have this big motivational speech night where you –

turn all the lights off and you light the candles and light the, get the essential oil diffuser going and you show her these spreadsheets and you'll have this big kumbaya moment and then our culture tells us that everything needs to be fixed by the next day. What would you tell somebody

We'll get to the keys to getting out of debt here in a minute, but I'm more fascinated by y'all hammered away at this thing for seven years. And we have a culture that just doesn't do that anymore. When it comes to weight loss, when it comes to nutrition, when it comes to any sort of any goals, we have people coming out of school with their first year of their bachelor's degree wondering why they're not making six figures. What would you tell somebody is the key to just simply sticking with something over time that long?

Yeah. I definitely had to learn that lesson right when I came out of college, I bought a truck. So with a loan, um, and then eventually paid that off years before we started this. But, um, delayed gratification is something that I've definitely learned over time to, um, and in the back of my mind, the main thing is, uh, how can we help our kids down the road? Ah, so you have this, you have this why down the street, right? That just keeps pulling you along. Right. What about you?

I'd say I still struggle with delayed gratification a little bit. But yeah, I agree. Just knowing the reasoning behind it and looking forward to what's to come is the motivation. So how'd you celebrate? We really have yet. What? I need a cruise. I need you. Listen, the Live Like No One Else cruise is still available. That's exactly right. I need you guys to have a milestone. So if you could do...

anything, what would like a big trip or a big celebratory moment look like? Yeah. So we're going to San Diego in October to kind of get, uh, for a little getaway. So that's somewhat of a celebration. Well, y'all make it a big getaway. You make a quarter million dollars. You don't owe anybody. You need to go to Europe. You need to go to Tahiti. You need to go somewhere. We want a lake house eventually. So that's where we're saying. All right. Okay. Okay. So, um,

There's a guy who just got married or a young bride who still fits. She's got two years left in school. She just got married and they're both realizing how much they're going to owe and they all get out. What do you tell them is the key to getting out of debt? I'd say being on the same page, communication, working through the budget, looking at that constantly and having a good discussion on where we're going to spend our money and both being in agreement there.

Yeah, I think knowing it's going to be hard during the process, but that you'll be able to breathe on the other side of it is motivational too. So I want to hear that story. Paint us a picture of y'all hit send on that last payment. And there's like the, ah, it's kind of cool. But then there's been days and weeks since then. Paint me a picture of what your life has been now that you don't owe anybody anything. No one can take your house. It's yours. No one can take it. No one can take your truck or your van.

Paint the listener a picture of what that feels like. It's definitely freeing. You feel more lightweight, like nothing's weighing you down. Yeah, and I'm in the world of contracts and things like that, so those come and go, and it's good to know that if something was to happen to my work that...

I don't have to go find something right away. Oh, gotcha. You've bought yourself the luxury of time. Right. And peace. It's amazing. Good for you guys. All right. So we ready to rip this thing off? You're bringing the girls up? Mm-hmm. We have Abigail and Emma. How old are they? Abigail is four today. And Emma is... She'll be two in September. Happy birthday, Abigail. All right. All right.

So we have Taylor and Meredith and Abigail and Emma from Huntsville, Alabama paid off $220,000 including your house because you're weirdos in seven years. Count it down. Let's let your debt-free scream rip. Ready? Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Woo! Woo! All right! Woo!

So we're going to hook you guys up with two every dollar gift cards that you can give away. It's a year of every dollar subscription. You can give it away to somebody in need or you can use it for yourself. And, Jade, this is how it's done. This is how it's done. Picture perfect. I love it. Picture perfect. Seven years slowly chipping away. Now forever no house payment. And those little girls are never going to know money stress in that house. Changing the family tree. That's what it's all about. Amazing. If you're listening...

Yes, you can too. We'll be right back. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Today's scripture of the day is 2 Corinthians 8, 11. Now finish the work so that your eager willingness to do it may be matched by your completion of it according to your means. Justin Timberlake says, If you put out 150%, then you can always expect 100% back. That's what I was always told as a kid, and it worked for me so far.

That's some different math, JT. Yeah. He definitely brought sexy back, but he did not bring math back. He did not bring math back. I brought mathematics back. Yeah. That's a quote that Michael Scott would have on his office wall. I mean, I think I'm going to get this thing printed up and put in our suite back there.

Oh, boy. I can just see Dave walking down the hall and pausing to read it and compute it, and his inner calculator just starts smoking. Let's go out to New York City and talk to Daniel. Hey, brother. What's up, Daniel? How you doing, guys? Nice to talk to you guys. We're doing great, man. How can we help, man?

So, uh, I don't know. I sent in an email. So basically I'm 25. I have my own house, my second house. I'm financially successful. I got everything going on. And within my financial success, I would say about 95% of all my friends like dropped me, left me. And I feel, I just have a girlfriend now and I just, you know, just very alone, like depressed, like don't know what to do. So what happened? Where'd your friends go?

I don't know. I don't know. They just, I was just focusing on my business and doing my thing. And then after a while they, I guess maybe they just felt envious or whatnot, but. Were they jealous or did you? Or maybe you stopped calling them back? Yeah. Like you didn't point to the relationship? No, not even. I mean, no, one of my friends I donated a car to. And then a year later stopped hearing from him. Like, so, you know.

So if you, what's one of the businesses you run? You say you're a 25 year old entrepreneur. You're very successful. What kind of business do you, do you, do you work in? Well, I own a power washing and a shrink wrapping business. Okay. So let's say you were working on a, um, power washing job and one of your, um, one of your nozzles broke. What would you do right in the middle of the job? Fix it. How? Replace it. How? Well, if I had in the truck and the back of the truck has some extras. You don't have any in the truck. What are you going to go do?

Go to the store and have to buy some. Okay. The store down the street's out. What are you going to do? You got to finish this job. I'm going to have to replace it or reschedule the job. Excuse me. So here's what I'm saying. You're a very smart young man and you're very driven and you're successful. And when it comes to your business, when it comes to honoring your word and your commitment to a customer, you will keep finding solutions and finding solutions. And so my question for you is, why don't you...

Why don't you love Daniel as much, at least as much as your customer? Maybe I'm just so focused on everybody else, helping everybody else around me that I'm not, you know. I think it's deeper than that, man. I talk to a lot of entrepreneurs across the country and a lot of entrepreneurs become successful because they charge so hard and they can charge so hard because they've been running from something their whole life. Either I'll prove it to you, I'll show you,

Or this illusion, this false illusion that when I get this much money or I get the next car, the next house, when I donate this thing, even giving can become that sometimes. Then finally, I'm going to have peace. And every time they get there, Jade said earlier, the goalpost just moves. I'm going to buy another house. I'm going to get another car. I'm going to give this car to my bro. I'll hook him up. He doesn't even talk to me anymore.

Exactly. So I'm telling you right now, in a weird way, you're lucky. This is, you're, you're finding this out at 25. Most people find it out after make chasing this stuff for 25 or 30 years and they wake up at 50 and their kids don't like them and they're surrounded by nobody. And you're right. And so my question for you is how are you going to solve a friendship crisis? You're going to go find some friends. You're going to put yourself in a position. You might take one less job or two less jobs or hire somebody to, to get some of the work done. Now that you've got some financial margin, um,

but you're going to make a commitment to having people in your life and unfortunately for you it's going to be different people than you than you ran with when when you were younger right 100 there's also part of this that i think is kind of normal you know you're 25 years old the people that you're friends with at 25 won't necessarily be there at 30 and won't necessarily be there at 40 and so

I wouldn't necessarily look at this as, oh my gosh, I can't believe this is happening to me. It's also part of life. Like there's people that I invited to my wedding that I never,

have never seen since you know what I mean there's people that I thought that were going to be my ride or dies for life and we don't talk we don't talk anymore we never talk like it's over and I don't necessarily know what happened it just you drift apart and so there's people who are in your life some of some of them are there for a reason some of there are there for a season some of them are there long term some of there are some of them are there to get you to the next spot and

Some of them, you help them get to the next spot and you never see them again. But in many ways, there is a revolving door to this. And I don't want you to think that it must be because of you or it's because they were jacked up or it's because I think there is part of this that you're 25 and life is changing very rapidly, probably for everybody in your friend group. I agree. That makes sense. And no, men don't tell this to other men. So here you go. You have permission to be sad. You have permission to miss your old buddies, dude.

That's right. It's good. Because those have been your friends since you were 12, right? Since you were 16, since you were 17. Y'all did some stupid stuff together. Y'all got each other out of trouble. Y'all had each other's back. You're the kind of guy that will give you a car. For sure, 100%. So it's all right to take a walk and to exhale and say, man, I miss those guys. And, like Jade said...

I got to go be about making new friends and new community. I'm going to ride with people who are entrepreneurs, who are interested in doing the next right thing, who are good people, who have good character, who will hold me accountable to the man I want to become. Will you do me a favor? Yeah. Actually, it's not me a favor, dude. I'm just going to go about my day. It's doing you a favor. You get off this call sometime tonight, maybe this weekend. I want you to get out a piece of paper and I don't want you to type, but I want you to use a pen. Okay.

And if you're younger than 25, yeah, you're 25. So a pen is an ancient technological device that you can write with. I use pen in school. No, I'm playing. So I want you to write a letter to 35-year-old Daniel. And I want you to write him about the time you had X number of dollars in the bank and you felt lonely and the things you started doing when you were 25 so that in 10 years he could have the life that he's going to be having.

And that's the way I'm living. There you go. But hey, you can live like no one tomorrow, right? That's right. But that 35 year old life is not going to be about square footage. It's going to be about friends who love you. Exactly. Is that fair? That's fair. All right. I'm proud of you. Good man. Thank you for being, uh, for, for having the courage to say, man, I'm lonely. I'm 25 and I've got it all. And I don't got anything. Jay, we see this all the time, right? Absolutely. I mean, I think there's,

especially, you know, we talk all the time about changing your family tree. And so there's this piece of honor in putting your head down and doing what you have to do to make things right financially for yourself and for your family and for your kids. But at the same time, you know,

The peace that you're looking for is not found in the money and the things and the stuff. Like Dave says all the time, there's only one way to true financial peace and it's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. So there's, and that's, that's talking about relationship is what that's talking about. And so even at, on this level, you know, talking about person to person relationship, you need that. You can have all the stuff, you can have the best paycheck, you can have, you know, your business is on point, but if you don't have relationships that matter, you can feel very empty very quickly. Yeah.

But it's an old trope by this point. But I think it was Jim Carrey that said, I wish everyone could just get a million dollars just so you could know. It doesn't do it. Yeah. It doesn't solve that question that we all ask. Do you see me? And do you know me? And do you still love me? Right. And I'm talking to you dudes out there in steel-toed boots and Carhartts and your surgeons just as much as I'm talking to anybody else. Yeah. Everybody wants to know, do you see me?

And now that you really know me, you still love me. And so, man, you can have all the money in the world, but you got to have that gang. You got to have a group of people that you can call in the middle of the night and say, hey, I need some help. Come see me. So that's awesome. Thank you so much for your calls. Hey, America, thank you so much for joining us right here on The Ramsey Show. We're here all the time, always putting shows in your feed to help you live a better, more peaceful life. We'll see you soon. This is The Ramsey Show.

If you're a leader, your personal growth matters for your organization because whatever you lead can only grow as much as you do. I know from experience. I've been CEO of Ramsey Solutions for over 30 years, and now I'm sharing that leadership and business coaching experience with you on the Entree Leadership Podcast. I'm taking your calls and helping you figure out how to overcome challenges within your organization. One episode could change your business. Check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or iTunes.

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