There Is Hope in the Midst of the Struggle
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am your host, Jade Warshaw. I'm here with one of my favorite guys, Jayne.

Dr. John Deloney. What's up? He's the co-host today. He's here to take all your questions on just overall wellness. I'm here for the money side. He's got you on the relational side. And give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225. John, I feel like it's a minute since you and I have flown this plane. I know. I miss you, man. You doing okay? I'm doing good. Let me tell you.

We posted that post on social media this morning and it went, it's gone bananas. Is it spun up? Man. Oh, that was the one about folks taking out just wild town loans for cars. Cars. $2,500 a month payments. Yeah. The equivalent of a house basically. Yeah. A nice house. Yeah. Yeah.

My favorite was you clowning on that whatever somebody posted and they had put prayer hands and you're like, that ain't from God. No, that's not a blessing. That is not a blessing. So man, give us a call. We're going to help you decipher and differentiate between the things that are

you know, really good with your money and the things that you might need to think twice about. Maybe it's your car payment. Maybe it's a home you're considering buying. We'll help you sort through that so you can give us a call. The call is free. You can call at any time in the next three hours, really, depending on when you're listening. But in the meantime, we've got Michelle who is on the line. She's from Denver, Colorado. What's going on, Michelle?

Hi. So a little bit about my situation. I just turned 50 last month. Cool. I have been engaged for eight years.

My fiance and I, we have a daughter together. She's seven years old. I have two teenagers from my first marriage and my fiance has two adult children. And here's my question. So I'm increasingly becoming a little worried about my future. I don't work. My fiance and I agreed that I should, you know, stay at home with my daughter and my two other kids. They also live with us. He's the primary breadwinner.

He owns three houses and they are all in his name. He had one house before we were engaged, but he has since purchased two other homes, neither of which I am on the title. I drive a car that's in his name. My phone is in his name. I have absolutely nothing in my name. And in addition to that, he will not be transparent with...

with me like if something were to happen to him like he won't show me the will I'm just becoming really insecure I guess in my relationship but in my in my financial um situation as well and I'm just don't know what to do at this stage you don't want to be like I'm very in the dark you are in the dark you are in the dark I'm insecure for you me too go ahead John I

how can we help i don't know what you're asking if you were my sister i would tell you to pack up everything you have and go get an attorney today it's been eight years you're not married yet you're still engaged we are not married we are colorado's colorado's a common law state um but but it's also geez it's a mess this is an absolute stone mess um i i what what yeah how can i help you

What are you looking for? Well, I'm just wondering, I mean, if I were to leave the relationship, basically, I'm guessing I am not entitled to anything but perhaps child support. I think I'm not a legal expert, so I can't give you legal advice, but I think that's wildly inaccurate.

I think after a certain time, again, don't hold me to this, check with a licensed attorney in your state. But I think once after you pass a certain point, there's property that y'all earned, quote unquote, together, whether you were putting money in the pot or not, because the house doesn't run without you, right? And so that allowed somebody to go earn some money. So, but sit with an attorney and work through all that. I want to go back to something you just said. You said, if I were to end this relationship, right?

Like my friend Michelle, like your relationship's over. Y'all can build something new from here and decide you're going to do this thing right. But to allow somebody to take care of a child with as little information as you have, to hang somebody out to dry like this, this is not a relationship. This is not a partnership. This is a really messy, messy power trip is what this is.

I agree with you. I feel like there's just so much control. I feel like there's this hierarchy of power, and I feel like I'm at the very bottom of that. So I am in complete agreement, which is why I am just so frustrated, which is kind of the reason for my call. Yeah, but you're frustrated about bigger stuff than this. There's no way that y'all have a great...

intimate life. There's no way you have a great, y'all are friends, y'all hang out. Because friends, I wouldn't do this with my buddy. Right? Like my buddy Todd was my college roommate. He knows where my will is. Right? He knows the role he plays in my will. And he's just a friend. He's not my wife. Right? I mean, this is just common decency. Right.

And he won't even give you that. So y'all have deeper issues here. You got to bite the bullet and go get an attorney. And if you have a couple of friends in town that you could reach out to that would recommend somebody that would be good and fair and give you honest advice and not rake you over the coals, man, that'd be my next step.

And if we were to try to repair our relationship? You're not repairing anything. The car has been totaled. You would have to build something completely new. And that begins with you saying, here's what I want, and here's what I need, and here's what I'm worth in terms of a relationship.

And somewhere along the way, over the last almost decade, you've decided that your voice doesn't matter almost as much as he does. When did this start? When did you start feeling this way?

I've started feeling this way the past few years, but as I turned 50, I have just felt really worthless just because I don't feel like I have anything. And like I said, I think for me, when I turned 50, I kind of hit a corner. I don't

I don't know how long I have, but I mean, if he were to walk away or if something were to happen, I am really fearful that I would, you know, have to start at the very, very beginning. And, you know, obviously I need to get a job and I need to get my life together. But I think your fear is very warranted. Okay, well, I mean, I really appreciate you confirming that. Let me confirm it this way. You're not crazy. Okay.

If you were my friend, I would tell you you're crazy for sticking around for eight years because you've allowed this to happen. Right. I have. I mean, it is on me. That is absolutely for sure. But the beauty of that is once you take ownership of that, next step's on you too. Okay. Go call an attorney. Well, thank you so much for your... You got it. Oh, yeah. Man, we love you. Call anytime we can help, but call an attorney and get that process going. My goodness. Yes.

I'm almost glad that we're going to a break because this is the third time in a very short period today that I've just heard and been on calls where men are tripping. Yeah. And I want to go. I want to go so hard in the paint right now, but I can't. But I just need these guys to get in line and understand that they need to love their families well and they need to do better. This is The Ramsey Show.

You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw. This is Dr. John Deloney over to my right. If you're listening, he is the other voice that you will be hearing. John, you know, we just had a call before the break and I felt for, you know, my girl who called in because her dude was just way off. To be together for eight years, common law marriage. I mean, I don't know.

Under the law, that's what it is. She's got as much entitlement to everything as if they were married, but he won't put her name on anything. He won't let her know where the will is. He won't let her be involved in anything

conversations regarding money and the things that honestly directly affect her life. And I was kind of getting pissed because I just feel like I'm hearing that more and more. I had the privilege of coaching some folks earlier this week, and I keep hearing the same story over and over where couples are so divided with their money. They're so divided with their finances. And how

maybe I'm old school maybe I'm gonna get canceled I don't know but where I come from you you one plus one doesn't equal two it equals one right and you got to be on the same page when it comes to these finances and I'm so tired like I'm gonna just say it if Sam Warshaw let me put it in terms that I can say if Sam Warshaw said to me hey don't forget to Venmo me your half of the rent I

You would never see him again. He would be on the moon because I'm like, you're half of the rent. Are you kidding me? Or don't, it's your night to pay for the dinner. Oh, and you can't have access. You can't know where the will is and your name can't be on the mortgage. Are you kidding me? That's just, that is a man who does not understand

He's not looking out for the well-being of his family. He's looking out for the well-being of number one. And you can't love anybody well when you're putting yourself first and foremost. It's literally got to be the opposite. It's a man that's so small and lacks so much self-confidence and strength and actual...

leadership that the only way he can puff his chest out and feel like he's in the front of the line is by withholding. Just controlling. It's leadership by I know something you don't know. It is power by I know a thing that you don't know, so ha ha ha ha ha and you just sit down because you don't even know where anything is. Your name's not even on anything. I'm getting burned up just you saying it. I'm just getting burned up. It's so frustrating because

There's wives and kids. Yes. These are children, these are human beings. And at the end of the day, true strength, true leadership, true walk alongside, true service is...

We're all in this together. Here's every piece of information. Here's all the stuff on the table. There's no secrets. Here we go. We're going to do this thing together. And that means we have to have hard conversations. We have to figure stuff out. We're going to disagree. But that's not cowardice. That's right. And it's not childishness. Yeah. I'm taking my truck and going home. I'm sick of a generation of grown men who that's their role in the world. Yeah. This is my house. This is my money. This is my...

It's just not a way to live. It's not a way to live. Jade Warshaw, I live in that way. I'll tell you that right now. And I just, you know, I get it. Like when we talk about combining finances, I think it's important to say combining finances is rarely a light switch. Like it's not just like I go home, I have one conversation, boom, we're on the same page. I think it is worth noting and affirming that for many couples, like this is a journey. Like this is a mini conversation. Yes. But there is that line where there is a clear...

Disrespect that's taking place or there's like a clear wow you completely don't value me at all and you're treating me that way or you're very confused as to what it looks like to value somebody in the relationship and Value them in an equal part. Yeah, and I think that's the part that's just guys it burns me up. Um, I would say Not even an equal part

I have to value more than myself. Yes. That's what I was saying before. I have to value more. You want to quote unquote lead, then you get on the bottom and you carry the whole thing. Thank you. That's what it is. It's not going first and making sure that your bread's buttered first. Right. That's not how that works. It's the opposite. It's the opposite.

That's it. All right. I'm just saying that. I'm not trying to get on you. It's because we love you guys. We want to see you win, and you can't win when it's flipped around. Anyway, let's take a call. I got Mark in Honolulu, Hawaii. What's going on, Mark? Hope we didn't go too hard in the paint before your call. What's going on? It's all good. Oh, my gosh. My heart is pounding. I'm earning extra Fitbit minutes to sit here and wait for you guys. What's up, man? We're burning calories. How can we help? Aiden John. So I got two questions. One, I'd like to know,

If you think I can go part-time for my job, and number two, it's kind of a psychological question for J.D. I can't ever approve of any of my family members spending extra money, even though I make a really good salary. So, like, for example... Hold on, hold on. Before we get going, before we get going, I'm going to cut you off. We're going to get our language right, okay? Okay. You can't.

You've chosen not to, okay? So you choose not to let your family spend anything, even though you got a great salary. Go ahead, keep going. Gotcha. Keep going. That makes sense. Keep going. Well, yeah, exactly like if we go out to dinner and the kids want an extra drink, I'll say yes, but inside of me, I'm like, man, that extra $3 we could have saved. Did you grow up without any? Yeah, I grew up poor. There you go. I mean, I wouldn't say poor. I would say...

Okay. I mean, I saw my parents bring us up from a one-bedroom apartment and then made their money and they saved and saved. Hey, Mark, give yourself some grace. Your nervous system is wired up this way. Money is a scary thing that divides families, causes mom and dad to act scary, that bounces around from one-bedroom apartments to a house to this and that. That's in your nervous system.

The challenge for you is, is to recognize, Hey, we used to not be safe and now we are. So that doesn't mean my kids get everything. That's, that's, that's been my approach. Cause I grew up in a scary financial situation growing up. And my challenge has been my kids. I'm thinking of everything they want whenever I got to wheel that back to, cause I'm going to create monsters if I'm not careful. Right. But what that means is when they say, Hey dad, I'm still hungry. Can I get another taco? And I go, sure, buddy. And that my heart starts beating.

I have to know inside I'm practicing something new. And that is we're okay. And I've never had that before, but I'm going to practice. We weren't okay, but we are now. And it's going to be uncomfortable at first, but the more you're mindful of it, the more you accept it, the more your body goes, all right, we're okay now. And you can start being strategic. So go into the money part with Jade. How are we doing?

I mean, this is an absurd thing. I mean, I'm worth 7.3. Bro, it's not absurd. You're running for your life.

Okay, that's a little absurd. You're pretty wealthy. I mean... Yeah, I mean, I have rental properties all paid for, value at $2 million, bringing in, I would say, net $8,000 a month. I'm a physician. I'm one of those weird physicians that Dave always describes, you know, I paid off my loans in my first year out. I've been out for about 20 years. Good. So you just need to loosen the purse strings is what you're saying. Yeah.

Because you have to leave your money. For real. I mean, I'm just so wound up, and it does affect my relationship with my wife. Can I give you one more thing real quick? As a physician, we're going to run up against the clock. I'm going to make sure Jade's got a second to speak in here. But as a physician, if you live an anxious life, always solving other people's problems, and you're doing surgeries, and you're seeing sick people over and over and over again, sometimes an anxiousness response is to grab any variable you can and hang on for dear life.

And I may wonder if your money, if your net worth is this thing I can control when you have a job that's out of control, you got family, you got fires in your community. If this is a way to grab onto control and maybe the path forward is practicing opening your hand up.

That's a mic drop. Like, I feel like that's a mic drop. I don't see any money issues here. Show me where the money problem is. You talked about maybe going part-time. Go part-time, homie. Hey, what about how much do you... I want to go part-time because I want to spend more time with my family. Okay, done. So it's going to reduce my income. I take home, I mean, because I live in the state of Hawaii and they take a lot. Yeah. So...

My annual is going to drop down from, say, $390 down to $220, working three days a week. No! You can't do it, Mark. I'm just kidding, Mark. You're good. Do it. You're all good. Do it. And if you carry any debt on any of these properties, pay it off. Make your life as simple as possible financially. And I love the idea that you've worked hard enough that you get to work part-time and spend more time with your family. Embrace that. I think it's excellent. This is The Ramsey Show.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey good folks, the back-to-school madness is upon us. It's hitting us right now. We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on. My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects. And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

Here's what I've learned. When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first. And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole. And I know that you have to do those same things too. So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments. And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp.com.

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You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw. This is Dr. John Deloney to my right. Give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225. Your Neighborly Question of the Day is sponsored by Neighborly, your hub for home services. If you're moving, you have a long list of to-dos. Don't I know about that? But Neighborly has local pros like House Master, Five Star Painting, Window Genie, and Junk King.

To check items off that list, visit neighborly.com slash Ramsey today to schedule home service experts near you. Today's question comes from Noah in Texas. Noah writes, my wife and I have run into a dilemma with her family. Her parents want to go on a vacation to Costa Rica. Great place. My wife told her mom that we can't go because we're paying off debt and don't have the money. But her mom has said that they will pay for our part of the trip because they really want us to go.

My wife and I don't want them to do that for us. How about convincing them that we aren't able to go on this trip? Man. Here's what this sounds like, Jade. I don't have any problem with them going on a trip that mom pays for. That's awesome. Unless, and I'm reading between the lines here, Noah knows that that money will come with some significant strings attached. 100. Right? 100. And so, I don't...

I want to change your language. You're never going to convince them. What you can do is you're going to tell them, we're not going to go on the trip this year. Thank you so much for the invite. We appreciate your generosity. It's not going to work for us this year. We look forward to going with you in the future. Yeah, that's it. That's it. That on that. And they're going to be mad. They're going to come up with excuses. They're going to be whatever, whatever. We're not going to go on the trip and that's okay. Yeah. I,

I 100% agree. I think we spend too much time trying to convince people or trying to explain to them why we're doing things instead of just telling them. And that's it. I said what I said. Also, on the other side of it, if your family wants to pay for you to go on a trip and it's going to be a great adventure for everybody, go. Go on the trip. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But I'm with you. Clearly, there's strings attached and sometimes it's just...

I'm not getting involved. Don't go though if there's no strings attached and it's just your ego. Go on the trip then. Is that fair? Well. Like I ain't having nobody pay for me. Shut up. Oh, like when you're just like, I don't want a handout kind of thing. I'm not taking a handout. Just be quiet. Go on the trip with your mom and dad. If it's. Yeah. You know, it's going to come back and be like, well, you know, honey, we put a lot of money on that trip. So y'all need to bring grandkid to. Well, now we've got a whole other situation. Well, that's kind of. It's funny because what you just said, the first one where it's like, hey, if it's. I don't even know what that might mean.

like or feel like when you said that, I was like, what, what must that feel like to have no, no,

to have nothing attached. I don't even know what this is, John. I talked to a buddy the other day and he's like, my dad has taken all three kids and their families on a huge cruise. Yeah. And we're all going. And he's like, it's a long time. It's going to blow a lot of vacation, but it's going to be a fun trip. Yeah. It sounded like it's going to take some maneuvering for the family. Yeah. It's going to be, they're going to have to, but on the whole, it's going to be a good trip. Yeah. I'm going to honor my dad. It's going to be fun. We're going to go. Yeah.

I get that. Staying with anybody's parents for 10 days, there's always going to be stuff. Right? Always. We're going to go. That's fair. Yeah. When you get back from that vacation, you're like, hey, we need you to come roof the house for us because you remember I paid for that. Exactly. Now we're into a whole other ballgame. Yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah, because I think...

When people want to be generous like that, it's almost as much of a gift to them if you take it. That's right. Than it is for you if you enjoy the, you know, you accept the gift. So that's interesting. Yeah. I feel that. I'm trying to get it back on a scale that it's like when you go to a nice dinner and... Here's a good example. I did this. I had a... One of my professors when I was graduating said she wanted to start a...

a tradition with her graduate students that she took them out to dinner. So her and her husband and me and my wife went out to dinner. I had a rule, nobody buys me dinner. And it was more of like a bro flex than it was like this hard and fast rule. So I slipped my card, my debit card to the waiter and was like, all cool. And her look of sadness that I took that from her. It was a gift. And I tried, I bro flexed out of it. I was like, oh, I got this.

And she was like, hey, this was a gift. Oh, man. And I remember being super disappointed in myself because I took that from her. It was going to be an awesome gift. And it was going to cost Turner family a lot of money. And it was a nice meal. I took it from her because I had a knee gap problem.

I love that you called it a bro flex. It was just so dumb. It was so stupid, man. But I think if it's a gift like that, then man, let people give you a gift. If it's their down payment on controlling your life. Or if you feel like they're doing it for spite to try to drive home the point. No, thank you. You can feel it. You know the feeling. Let's go to the phone lines. Elena, I'm guessing it's Elena, in Kansas City, Kansas. Did I say it right or is it Alina? Yeah.

You do. It's Alina. Hi, Jake and John. Hey. My husband and I are new to the Ramsey plan. Welcome. Yeah, we've kind of done some stuff out of order the last couple of years.

He is 58 years old. I'm 55. And we have no bills except our mortgage and a retirement loan, which I know now we should not have done. It's about $50,000. We currently maximize our 401-403 account. Should we stop that retirement funding to pay off this $50,000? No.

We're hesitant to do that at our age. And with the taxes, we'd have to pay on that $60,000 that we're putting in there. We cringe at that. Should we sell stocks? We do have...

enough to pay that in stocks. However, we would have to pay short-term capital gains on that. We recently paid off a land loan and sold some stocks, $225,000 worth of stocks. So we would be paying short-term gains on that. Or do we not pay on those retirement loans and then just start throwing money at our mortgage? You don't have any liquid cash? It's all tied up?

Uh, we have about 15,000 in cash, but otherwise it's... And that's your emergency fund? Yeah. Yeah, listen, I'd go to the stocks and I'd clear those out because we're not big on stocks around here anyway. It's a lot riskier than if you were in something that's a little bit more spread out. So I'd probably liquidate the stocks and pay it. And I get what you're saying. I feel like the thing you've got to understand in situations like this is there's going to...

There's always a piper to pay when you make a mistake, right? And so there's no really getting around it, whether it's in capital gains tax or whether it's pausing, you know, you have to pause investing to pay off debt. There's always a give and take when a mistake's been made and you can't really evade that. So in this case, I think the...

I think the best choice is for you to liquidate some of these stocks because, like I said, it's money that you already have. You don't have to stop investing. But I would say from this point forward, I would make sure that I'm doing a more thorough investment mix instead of putting all my eggs in one basket, especially the older you guys get. You're going to want to make sure that you've got your money spread around in a better way. Are you guys working with a professional? Yeah.

We are not. The stocks he gets is in his company. He's rewarded some of those and he buys into some of them. He is an Air Force veteran and has a steady paycheck from that. And then on top of that, works for another company at this time. And he gets stocked in that company. His bonuses are paid in stocks. And again, he buys into it at a good rate. But I'll tell you this. I grew up in Houston.

And for a season, my mom worked at this little bitty company called Enron. And they gave all their employees stocks upon stocks upon stocks. And they were some of the most valuable stocks in the world until people woke up one morning and they were all gone. Right. And so stocks are just such a risky proposition. And if you, all the data says when you start throwing darts at trying to pick the right stock, you lose, you lose. Right.

And yours is just by default. You didn't even choose this, really. It chose you. So it's even more of a gamble in that way. You're getting stock. So man, I would take that stock and sell it and say thanks as though it's cash. And invest it. Yeah. And by the way, you're paying a penalty every month in the interest on the loan you took out. So you're paying a penalty. Like Jade said, you're going to pay a penalty regardless. I'm looking at by 62 years old,

Can I be completely free? Can we owe nobody anything except just us? And then that Air Force check comes in, then husband keeps working, and now we're off to the races. Yeah, that's the way to do this. Those 401k loans, they're tricky. People think I can just access this money. It's no big deal. But the fact of the matter is if you lose your job or if you walk away from that job, that loan becomes due within the next 12 months. It's...

it compounds on itself that quickly. So you've got to be careful with those 401k loans. You never know. This is the Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I've taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills? How am

I'm going to eat next week. Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. Like it's just, it is, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

You've got to say it out loud, and you've got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of a stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282, or go to zander.com.

You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw, joined by Dr. John Deloney. You can give us a call. We'll talk about your life and your money. The number is 888-825-5225. And I'm so excited because we have an amazing live event coming up here at Ramsey Solutions. It's actually on our campus at our live event center. It's going to be May 10th and 11th, and we're calling it the

Total Money Makeover Weekend, which is cool. It takes place on anniversary of the Total Money Makeover book that we all know and love. And so I'm really excited. It's very different. It's different from any other event that we've done. All the personalities are there. We are teaching on the stuff we've always talked about, but just in a new and invigorating way. So that's exciting. It's one weekend and you get a crash course on everything we teach about money. So you hear us talk about the baby steps,

all the time. And so this is perfect because it doesn't matter if you're on baby step one or maybe you're on baby step seven, there is going to be enough content for you to get excited, to get riled up about it. So I'm excited. It's really just gonna be a big fat party, a big rally, and everybody there is gonna be like-minded. So that's really exciting. No matter what baby step you're on, it's gonna light that fire. There's also gonna be Q&As. I know that myself and Ken Coleman have cooked up some really fun content

no pun intended there. So that was just a little, just a little Easter egg. So hopefully you'll enjoy it. Early bird tickets start at $99. That's only for a limited time. So you got to get your tickets. Now you can do that at Ramsey solutions.com slash events.

Yeah, and just keep in mind, this event center holds 2,400 people, so these tickets are going to go super fast. So get your tickets today. That's ramseysolutions.com slash events. Very cool. Can't wait for that. Let's go to the phone lines. Michael, who's in Auburn, Alabama. What's going on, Michael? Hey, how you doing? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm okay. I just got this problem with an ex-wife. Uh-oh. Tell us about it. She's wanting money every day, and...

And so she's coming to you for money? Are you remarried? Hey, I know why she's doing this.

You know why? I'm trying to figure this out. I figured it out for you. She's doing this because you keep giving it to her. And you have been for a decade, even though you went to court and dissolved your marriage. Why are you still giving her money 10 years later after she left you and remarried somebody else? I had kids and they're over 18 now. And I was just trying to figure out a

If I need to part ways or whatever. Are you still in love with her? I care about her, but, you know, she chose another man over me, you know? That's exactly right. And I don't, I don't, I'm, I'm, my heart's breaking for you, man, because I can tell you still care about her. You want her to be successful. She's the mother of your kids, and I get that. But what you just said is important. She chose somebody else over you. She left you. She divorced you. She married somebody else.

And this is the bed that she chose for herself and she's got to sleep in it. She's got to make up that bed. And the only way to move forward is you've got to stop writing checks. You've got to say the ATM is closed. You will not get another penny from me ever again. And then she's going to have to look at her husband who's laid up on a couch and they're going to have to figure that one out. How does that sound? I understand that. Can you do that? I'm going to have to do that.

Let me ask you, this new spouse that your ex-wife has, is she safe over there? Is she fine over there? Or is it just she needs money for cigarettes? Is there more to it? Well, he goes to work and then he quits work for a while. And then he goes to work and quits work for a while. When he quits work, they're getting in a real bad struggle. And she calls me to help. So, Michael, I'm going to tell you something that's hard to hear.

You shouldn't know about their marriage struggles. It's inappropriate for her to be telling you about that. That's between her and him. And when she starts to tell you about her, about him, and what he's not doing, I can't believe... That's when you have to say, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop, stop, stop, stop. I have no interest in hearing about your new husband. None. Zero. Oh, you just don't care about... No, no, no. That's between y'all two. She made comments to other people that all she got to do is...

Holler for me and I'll give her money. Because you do. It's the truth. It's 100% the truth. Yeah. So you have to choose to keep your dignity and to say, I'm no longer doing that. Period. A lot of reasons I do it because I feel sorry for her. I know. I know. And you're a good man. But enough is enough is enough is enough. Fair? Fair. And plus, you know, my daughter lives with her. Your daughter's an adult. How old's the daughter?

18? She's 28. Oh. Brother. Listen. Michael, stop giving them all money. All of them. They're never going to grow up. But I don't want my daughter doing without food, you know. No, your daughter's choosing that. What's keeping her from getting a job? My daughter works. Then she should have food. Yes. Yeah. She needs to move out from her mama's house.

It's a toxic situation. She needs to get her own place. I'm going to go out on a limb and say, you probably need a change of scenery as well, Michael. Like I'm just hearing this and I'm a fly on the wall. This sounds like a stew that's been just sitting like simmering for a long time. And you just need to get out of it. Like it's just a change.

chain of events that just continue just that cycle over and over and over and my guess is you probably need to change the scenery your daughter probably needs a change of scenery because that my daughter's there because her mama is real sick and she's there to you know to help her well part of helping is making sure that there's food and part of yes part of helping is making sure like a fireman doesn't run into a burning building without the proper gear and equipment right

Similarly, you can't call it help and at the same time not be truly helping or helping a tiny little bit, but then calling around all. It's just it's one big mess after another, after another, after another. And then your daughter is going to look up. She's going to have lived in this house. She's going to be 36 years old when her mom finally passes away. And this man who's laid on the couch is going to take the house from her. I understand. Right. It's just a big mess that everyone's got to step away from. Mm hmm.

I'm not saying walk away from a sick mama, but I'm saying what y'all are doing, what your daughter's doing is not helping. You giving money for cigarettes to a very, very sick woman who's so sick that her adult daughter has to come in and live with her. It's not helping. And I'm just saying that because I love you. Not because I'm trying to be mean. Well, I understand. It's,

You know, I'm just trying to help. No, I say you're a good man. You're a good man. I think the greatest gift you could give everybody right now is to be very clear and say, I've been helping for a long, long time, and I've got to take care of myself. I've got to take care of my future. I've got to take care of my home. And so as of effective today, the ATM is closed, and I'm not giving anybody any more money. I love you all. And they're going to bang on your door. They're going to hate you. They're going to write you mean messages. They're going to yell at you.

Because that's worked in the past and it's not going to work this time. Do you have money, Michael, to get? I mean, do you even have? Not that much. Not that much. Yeah. I struggle sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. If you're struggling, you definitely don't have it to give. Yeah. And your best, like John said, getting yourself together and getting your life together is the best thing you're going to be able to do because no one's going to take care of you. So what's going to happen when you're, you know, get older and you're not working anymore? You've got to make sure that you're set up financially as well.

Yeah. We got you, brother. Draw some boundaries and say no more. Changes to make. That's hard. That kind of stuff, John, this magnetic, it's like it has like a magnetic force that pulls you back when you try to get out of it. It's like all the ingredients in a pot and after a couple of days of just simmering, all the ingredients are just one big goo, right? Yeah. Got to jump out of the pot. It's not easy to do, but you can do it. Thanks for listening. This is The Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I am Jade Warshaw, your co-host today. Dr. John Deloney is sitting to my right. We're taking your calls all afternoon about your life, your money, so give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225, and we'll chop it up with you. Call about your life, call about your money, call about your relationships, call about

This show is yours and we are happy that you're here with us. So let's go straight to the phone lines. Kyle in Jackson, Mississippi. What's going on, Kyle? I'm going to Jackson. Hey, Jay, Dr. John. How's it going, guys? Going good. How can we help?

Yes. So just to kind of give you a brief overview of what I got going on, I'm currently just in a situation that I'm trying to figure my way out of. I'll kind of tell you what prompted it. My wife and I are actually expecting our first baby here in a few weeks, and it's just...

It's got me thinking, you know, it's time for a legitimate change. I'm ready to do it. But I'm just trying to get some traction and I can't seem to do that. So that's where I'm at. And, you know, I'm excited, but I'm, you know, getting pretty nervous, pretty scared. And it's coming pretty quick. Tell me about your financial situation that's making you nervous and scared.

Yeah, so altogether, just quick math in my head, roughly about $400,000. That's including a mortgage spread out. I'm pretty much a kosher child of stupid, but $72,000 in student loans. That's between my wife and I. The majority of that is mine, about $64,000. Two car loans. How much are those? $2,000.

One's 18, one's 29. Okay. What else? Roughly 15K across multiple credit cards and then just being conservative and saying another 1,500 medical and miscellaneous. Okay. I think something that'll help is

is kind of separating your mortgage debt from everything else because when you tell yourself I've got four hundred thousand dollars of debt like that feels a lot more overwhelming with the mortgage included in that and the truth of the matter is right now your only assignment is to pay off the the non-mortgage debt so it's not cheating to to kind of cut that part off and put it you know

put it aside for later. So without that, you know, this goes down significantly. Let me just quickly in my head. So, I mean, you've got $160,000 of debt. Does that feel right? Yeah, it sounds roughly right. Yep. Okay. So how much income are you bringing in? $110,000 plus bonuses.

I get about $6,500 a month or so. I haven't gotten my first bonus, but we're on track to about $1,500 next month. Okay, so roughly you bring home anywhere between $6,500 to $8,000 a month with bonuses. Is that fair? I would say $6,500 is fair. Okay, that's fair. And is this just your income or your wife's working too? I know you said she's pregnant, but does she normally work?

She's a homemaker slash babysitter. So she was contributing about $700 a month or so, but that's about to stop. Okay. And when, so this will be your first child. Sorry, I'm asking a lot of questions because I want to get my head around it. So she has this first child. Do you think that is the plan that she'll go back to doing what she was doing before or pick up any sort of work? Or is the idea that she'll probably, you know, take care of the baby and not do any financial work?

The intent is to stay home and take care of the baby to avoid child care, potentially going back to doing what she was doing eventually. I don't know what postpartum and what that's going to look like. The intent right now is to avoid child care costs and have her stay home with the baby. Okay. Okay. So, okay. What that's telling me is,

is because when I think about child care, I'm just I'm thinking out loud here. When I think about child care, you pay around twelve to thirteen hundred dollars per kid. But for an infant, it's more expensive. So maybe you're paying fourteen or fifteen hundred a month if you're doing, you know, a mid level to nice, nicer child care. Do we feel like

And here's the way I kind of think about that. I'm like, is she able to make $1,500 or more a month? Is she able to bring in $3,000 a month? Because if she is, that kind of answers your question.

Yeah, that means, yeah, she can work and we can have child care. I'm not saying that, you know, you have to do it immediately. But I do think that in this equation, as much money coming in as possible is necessary. And I also think this is the hard part of this equation. There's going to be some things that you don't like about it.

Like, I don't think there's any getting around. Something's going to have to take place here that nobody likes, whether it's you picking up a second job, because then the negative side to that is, oh, I won't be around the baby as much. And then your wife's going to be like, hey, you're never here. So no matter how you slice this, there's going to be a trade that takes place and it's not going to be comfortable. So I do want to say that out of the gate and you and your wife can decide what that trade is and when it takes place.

But my screen says that you're on the path to bankruptcy. So what I want to make sure that you know is I don't think that you're on the path to bankruptcy. I think you just have some really difficult decisions that you're going to have to make with your money and the way your lifestyle is moving forward. Okay.

Fair enough. Yeah, that's fair. I'm willing to pick up a second job if I need to. I'm just trying to get my head above water right now and figure it out. So the tactical side to this, so let's talk tactics. Tactical side is, do you have a budget? Are you working on a budget right now?

I just started trying to give it a really good go this past week, and I don't know that it's in the best place. I probably need to see how it comes out. I did attempt to put my best foot forward on it and try it out, but I don't know how well that is right now. Okay, well...

finish it because I think sometimes we start on it and we go get busy with something else prioritize this this weekend you got to get this budget set with your wife together you guys decide on the amounts and first things first if you've never been on a budget before and this is for anybody listening your first job is just to figure out can you live on your income like don't make any big sweeping changes just be like can I live on a budget can I make

can I write down a realistic number for groceries? Can I write down a realistic number that I think we spend? And can I just stick to it? Like that's for so many people, they quickly go to, I'm going to live on nothing. And it's like, I can't stick to this. So just get in a rhythm of you guys living

stick into whatever number you put, don't get too crazy. And we don't use credit cards. We were just living on our income. And then when you start feeling your footing with that, that's when you start going, okay, but now I can cut down groceries and I can cut back on takeout and I can cut back on, you know, whatever those different care categories are. And that's what that looks like. And then I want you to really start playing out and playing through some numbers and seeing what would it look like if our family lived on

80,000 instead of 110,000. And then I want you to start running the numbers on what would it look like if you found a job where you could make $2,000 extra a month. And I really want you to pull all of these concepts out of the air and put them down on paper and start working your way backwards and going, okay, what does it look like to get $2,000 extra a month? What does it look like for us to live on this number of a budget? And that's how you put this in real life. This is The Ramsey Show. ♪

You're listening to The Ramsey Show. Thanks for listening. Hey, if you love this show, make sure that you like, subscribe, and share it with the people around you. That would help us out big time. Obviously, it kicks the show up in the algorithms, and you're just sharing a really awesome show with the people around you, which that is a win-win. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw. This is Dr. John Deloney. Taking your calls all afternoon, so give us a call. The number is 888-825-5255.

5-2-2-5 and we would be happy to give you our opinion on what's going on in your life. So we'll do just that. We got Justin in Seattle, Washington. What's going on?

Justin. Yeah, how's it going? I've got a question for you. So I rent a house below market value, a four bedroom house for about $1,000 a month. And I'm looking at, is it worth it for me to pursue buying a house knowing that the mortgage is going to be twice as much? Um,

I guess that would be the big question. Should I pursue buying a house? I have very little debt, and I just got a new job with a little more money. And I just got married two years ago. My wife wants a house, but I'm not sure if that's... I'm worried about the risk, I guess. How old are you? Or is there a risk of just running? I'm 45 years old. 45. I mean, well...

When you buy, you're taking away some of the risk because for most of us, the largest line item on our budget is our home, whether we rent or buy. And so when we rent, though, that becomes a variable cost, right? We have the ability for rent to go up. We have the ability for our lease to break and then we have to go someplace else. Whereas when we buy, we're

it's just kind of a fixed savings account and we're putting money into it and we're buying, we're building equity in that. Um, and it becomes an asset for us. And, um,

it's fixed. So that kind of creates a stability in our life. So to that point, I would say most folks, really everybody should aspire to home ownership. But the real question for you right now is, is now the time to buy? And that's really the question that most people, including yourself, need to be asking themselves. It's not necessarily is renting better than buying. It's is now a good time for me to buy. Is that fair enough?

Yeah, I mean, I went through a divorce, so I don't have very much in retirement. I do pay quite a bit in child support. So that's the other thing is like, should I just be holding my horses and kind of waiting for...

for the interest rates to go down or, or, I mean, I feel like I've been waiting forever. I was married a long time ago, but I just, I'm now I'm like to the point where I kind of got out of that and I'm just kind of, I have a little bit from when I got married, my wife had some debt that we're paying off, um, maybe about $25,000 or so. But, uh, um, I just feel like I'm just trying to

I don't know. I'm nervous to do it. I know, I guess I get the point that I could, that my rent could go up, but I've been with the same landlord for 12 years and he's, I don't know, I guess he could sell the house or something like that, but I feel like I'm pretty comfortable where I'm at. But maybe that's just kind of me being a little naive as well.

Well, I mean, kind of going back to our initial conversation, there is value in stabilizing your lifestyle. And I think as long as you rent, there is more perceived stability than actual stability. So to your wife's point, she's the one that wants to buy. So let's talk about what it might look like for you to get to that point. And I would say the first thing is I would want to be completely debt free. So I'd pay off this debt that you have. It sounds like it's only $25,000. How quickly could you have that paid off?

I would say within a year or two. Okay, so one to two years? She owns her own company that is kind of teetering back and forth. It's doing okay, and sometimes it doesn't do very well. And when I have a regular job where I make a decent amount of money, I make about $135,000. And then bonuses can get it up there a little higher. What does she make on an average month? Yeah.

I would say on an average month she makes, right now she's breaking even and with her business maybe she'll make about three to four thousand dollars a month sometimes and then sometimes she'll just be flat. How long has she been doing it like that? She's been doing that for, I would say she's been doing it for before we got married so maybe

Five, six years now. All right. I would challenge that. I think there's a point where a business is...

just a really great hobby and it's great when it brings in money. But I'd want to get to the point after five years where the income is consistent and I can say, I'm earning this money and this is what I'm taking in. That being said, and I'd want to see that, especially with you guys thinking about buying a house. So my keys to this would be paying off the debt. Let's save up three to six months of expenses. In this case, I'd probably say six months of expenses because her income isn't as solid as I'd like for it to be.

And then I'd start saving up for a down payment. I'd start looking in your area and saying, okay, like what's feasible for us? What can we get into? And I wouldn't worry. I mean, I say this very lightly because interest rates are real and you

what it takes to buy a house right now is not easy. And so this could be a long journey for you guys saving up to actually get something that you would want to buy. And I think that's okay. But I do think in this case, home ownership, we just know that it's a key component to wealth building. 67% of millionaires have paid for residences. So I do think that it's something that you should consider and should start working towards. John, what do you think?

Yeah. Justin, can I use your situation as just a conversation on a larger, a bigger puzzle piece across the country? Is that cool? Yeah. So Dave in particular has taken, and I guess all of us by proxy have taken a lot of hits recently, and I'm seeing it on social media, I'm seeing it everywhere, that we're out of touch with.

that we don't care about people, that we want people to not spend money or ideas or impractical, they don't work. And so when Jade tells somebody who's thinking about buying a home, hey, don't owe anybody any money first and make sure you've got some money to put down enough that you can get in that house and that you could get out of it if you had to, that you can get into that house and you're not going to immediately be underwater in a huge asset like that.

When we tell people 25% of your take-home pay, what we get back is, well, that's just unreasonable because houses have doubled. And here's the thing. I bought a house in 2020, right at the beginning, before it got bananas. And I'm shopping for a house right now. It's mostly doubled. It is madness. It's heartbreaking. And Dave pays me super obnoxiously well. And math doesn't care about my feelings.

And what does that mean for me and my family? There are neighborhoods in Nashville that we would have moved in with our same income and our same cash situation in 2020 that we're not doing right now. We can't because we can't afford it. I've got friends across the country that want to move to this state to keep doing this job, to live in this town.

And they simply can't do it because the matrix of I want this job, I want to be in this town and I want this home. One of those or two of those have to give. And so the big enemy here is how expensive homes are. The big enemy here is how everyone says it's okay to borrow a whole bunch of money and spread yourself out. And the heartbreaking part for me and for Jade, for Dave, for George, for Ken, for all of us is we sit with hurting people on the other side of this thing when it goes.

And make no mistake, it will go again. It will go again. And so we love people. We want people to buy the nicest house you can afford for you and your family. I want everyone to do the job they want in the city they want in the house they want.

Right now, housing is out of control. It's so expensive. And that may mean that for most people, you're gonna have to rent for a while. And is it ideal? Nope. Is it reality? Yes. Or you're gonna have to move to a new state. You're gonna have to move to a new town. You're gonna have to take on a second or third or fourth job or whatever the thing may be. But math doesn't care what neighborhood I wanna live in. Math doesn't care what school I wanna send my kid to.

Math says if you don't have money in the bank, math says if you go into your home underwater, it's going to bite you and it's going to cost you everything. And by the way, some super, super rich person is going to come buy that house from pennies on the dollar after I lose it. So it's heartbreaking, brother. But if you can't afford it, don't get into it. But it is something worthy to build towards. Housing is out of control expensive. It's just reality.

You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw. This is Dr. John Deloney to my right. We're taking your calls all afternoon. The number is 888-825-5225. Give us a call. Let's go straight to the phone line, shall we, John? We shall. Let's talk to Matt in Pittsburgh, PA. What's going on, Matt? Hey, I am 23 years old, and I am $157,000 in student loan debt. Yikes. And I just...

Don't know how to get out of it. What'd you study, brother? I was originally engineering, but switched to biochemistry and therefore lost my academic scholarship. And now I'm this far in debt. What do you do for a living now? I work as a medical lab tech at a hospital here in Pittsburgh. What are you earning? I'm sorry? What are you earning? Take home is about $2,600 a month. Okay.

Do you have any other debt? No. Okay. What's your living situation? I'm currently running an apartment with roommates. Roommates. Okay. So what are you paying in rent every month? With utilities, $550. $550. Okay, good. Okay. Good news is your rent is in a good spot. What else do you have? No car payment, nothing like that, right?

No. Okay. So the good news is you don't have a lot of other expenses that are pulling away from your ability to pay this debt off. You know, so many people find themselves and I just kind of want to paint this picture for you because it'll make you a little bit more grateful because so many people find themselves in this situation where it's like, hey, I have $157,000 of debt, but I'm also married with kids and a mortgage and

and credit card debt and card notes. So it's really hard to make that traction because all of their money is just going away every single month. The good news is you've got at least half of your income should be at your disposal. Is that fair enough? Yeah, with the minimum payments and the rent, I don't have much wiggle room, like with groceries and gas and everything. What are you spending on groceries and gas?

for a single guy groceries i can get my bill to like 200 bucks a month and then gas uh probably about i want to say like 250 a month okay and then does your job take out insurance and everything like that do you have that benefit yeah okay so what else are you what what's another big expenditure that you have going out every month it's just the minimum payments for the uh

the student loans. Okay, so they're all broken up. How many are there? Well, there's four private and the federal loan. So I'm paying $1,212 every month towards the private loan and about $250 for the federal. Okay.

Jade, the big elephant in the room here is I don't see a possible way forward with him only making $31,000 a year. Yeah, he's got to get his income up. Bro, what's your end goal here? You quit being an engineer to get a biochem degree. You're obviously a smart young man. What's the goal here?

Well, my problem is that I feel kind of stuck where I am in my job right now because I'd have to go get a further degree in order to move up. What I mean is you're better off right now going to try to get a manager's job at McDonald's or an assistant manager at Home Depot.

And I know it won't have the prestige of going into a hospital and being a lab tech, but bro, you are broke. And I'm saying that because I love you. Yeah. Right? I mean, you can't eat. $200, I mean, that's...

I went to Chick-fil-A the other day and it was like $19. I mean, it's out of this world expensive to exist. You just can't do that on 31. So whatever you want to do down the road, man, I'm all for you. I want you to go to med school if that's what you want to do or PA school or chem school if you can get a master's in chemistry, whatever it is, I'm all for it. But right now you can't eat, dude. And that means you're gonna have to break some hearts and everyone's gonna be like, oh my gosh, you got these degrees and they didn't. Yeah, right now I got to go make a bunch of money. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes sense. You're calling us like, I wish I could just be like, all right, Jade and I, we bestow it upon you. I mean, you just got to work and go earn that money. And 31,000 annually is a big math problem. You're digging a swimming pool with a spoon, brother. Yeah, makes sense. What would that look like? I mean, real talk, what does that look like for you? Is this just a matter of applying for different jobs? Did you kind of apply for one, you got it, and that was good enough?

Well, yeah, I was applying for, because I graduated in December of 22, and I was applying for about six months, and I was working that entire time, too. But, yeah, I finally got this job in June of last year. And I've still been looking for other stuff that pays higher, but it's, yeah, I can't. Can you work four hours before your shift from...

and shipping and then after you get off your shift can you work another four hours as an orderly i know those are two positions that are hard to find in hospitals or can you go over and work in the gift shop or in the like i'm just trying to say i understand that draw to be in that ecosystem you worked hard to get in there this is what you're passionate about it just can't it does not pay the bills and so the other alternative is i'm going to cobble together a couple of

two or three jobs inside this system. And by the way, in five years, when you've earned some more money and paid this stuff off, you'll know how a hospital works, right? And that will set you up for whatever you want to do next. But there's not a way that you're going to get through this without a lot of pain and a lot of sacrifice, either going to work at McDonald's and then working at Subway at night and then loading Bosca's at Walmart overnight or doing a whole bunch of jobs at the hospital. Yeah.

Your goal right now should be to 3X this. Yeah, 3X. Okay. And people are going to say, oh, just go make $90,000. No, we know they're not handing out $90,000 jobs. This means you're just going to work seven days a week, 12 hours a day for a couple of years. Piecing together some jobs. Okay. Because think about it. Right now, in your situation right now, you're paying off...

$13,000, $14,000 a year on the way you're going. Maybe that's maybe what you get. So if you, if you two exit, now you're paying off $30,000 a year. And if you three exit, now you're paying off $45,000 a year. So $60,000 a year. So let's, that's, that's where we're getting to. And it's going to be a journey, but I think you can do this. I don't want this to take you mess around and take you seven years to pay this off. Yeah.

And what's annoying for you, my friend, is Jade and I both had this about this much or more. And both of us worked a whole bunch of jobs, did a bunch of wild things and missed a lot of fun times with our families and our friends for an extended number of years to get this stuff knocked out. So we've been there. We know it's the worst. It is. And it's what's got to happen. Yeah. Mm hmm.

How are you feeling? I feel like, you know, I think sometimes people call in and they're kind of hoping that we can, you know, pull out that big red button that kind of like gives them the free pass. Like, I don't know. I feel like we just loaded you up. How are you feeling? Yeah, it's just kind of relieving to like hear somebody else say, uh,

get into another field or like go get a different job because it's stressful to like put all that time and work and realize like this isn't going to be able to

pay off anything. Listen, I think you're finding the reality in the dream that we all believed. You know, so many of us, we went into college with that thought of, listen, my degree is going to ROI. Like, I'm going to do this thing. I'm going to go out and get a job and I'll be able to pay for it lickety split. And so many of us, you're not alone when you wake up and realize, oh my gosh, and you feel just so disenchanted by the whole system and realize this might be four or five years of your life spent

kind of making up for it. And that's a very real feeling. But the hopeful part of it is you're definitely not alone. And there are millions of people who have walked through this before you, and they can verify that the pathway is clear and it actually does work. If you can get your income up, if you can get on a budget and you can start making those payments using the debt snowball. So that's the hopeful side of this, but yeah,

It doesn't make it any more easy, John. I like your idea. James, we've got to get a red button and once a year we just hit it and pay off somebody's everything. Yes! That would be awesome. That is amazing. All right, James, get your bank account ready because it's going to take a lot of money. This is the Ramsey Show. You were supposed to pop in there, James, and say something. I'm speechless. This is the Ramsey Show.

You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw, your co-host today. I'm joined by Dr. John Deloney. And we are taking your calls all afternoon long, so give us a call. We'd love it. The number is 888-825-5225. Call in. Hold on, hold on. We were just talking off air, and I think it's fair to have this conversation. Okay. It's kind of a continuation of when we had earlier.

I think it's important just to call out homes are outrageously expensive. Oh, yeah. The last I looked, and again, don't hold me to this statistic, but it's the lowest inventory is supply and demand. There's just none of houses. Yes. And some of these big Wall Street firms are coming in just buying them, writing checks for them and buying up neighborhoods. There's new competition on the ground that has never existed before. That's right. Housing has just gotten insanely expensive.

And that means for the young couple who's 26 and 27, and she's a teacher and he's a youth minister. She is a nurse practitioner. He is trying to get a small business going.

Y'all are going to be renting for a long time. 100%. That's not because people hate you. It's because to get into a house, it's half a million dollars on the low end. Yeah. To get in a dream home or a really nice place. It used to be 500. Now it's a million dollars. It's just gotten bananas, right? All across the country. I mean, I think now more than ever, you know, we've been...

we're part of the debt-free message like we're always telling folks to get debt free and I think now more than ever it's so important um if you're at the cusp right like you're just starting out you're considering student loans or you're talking to your kids about college it is so so so important for for those of us who got in debt you know shoulda coulda woulda like we're here now but for everybody else who's right at that cusp it's more important than ever because

this journey that you're talking about, John, to home ownership is longer. It might take you seven years. It might take you however long to get there. You definitely don't need to make it longer by having to pay off debt, right? So what I'm kind of likening that to is when Sam and I

uh when we first started out of course we had a bunch of debt it took us seven and a half years to pay off that debt once we realized hey we need to pay it off so really we were nine years in to marriage by the time our debt was paid off and we rented for 10 years because we were like we're not going to buy a house when we still have this debt our debt was our mortgage right so i know what it i know that feeling um to say hey you're not going to buy a house for 10 years but can we call this out this is important

I was at you and Sam's house. Like there was my wife and I, there's a whole group of us over there for a holiday party. Yeah. You have two little kids. Yep. Your house is extraordinary. It's beautiful. Thank you. Right. It's amazing. And I think it's hard when you're 32. It's hard when you're 26. It's hard when you're 40 and the math isn't adding up. Mm-hmm.

To not be able to just exhale and see the other side is if you'll wait and do it right. Yeah. There's a lot of laughter in that home. There wasn't a lot of angst. That's right. There's a lot of joy. There's a lot of fun. There's a lot of I wonder what other house we could get. Right. It's a different ethos than that.

I borrowed half of the 1% down because I got this special loan program from my brother and then this other guy. And then I got a bonus from my work and I was able to get into this place. Nobody moved, nobody breathed. That home owns you. You don't own that home, right? That's so true. It's just a different way, but it's thinking through like, because I was there too. I mean, just, I remember walking around being like, I'll never have a family. I'm never going to have a home for our family. I'm always going to be this, like begging the place where I work for help with it.

And it's just different now on the other side of it. The temptation, I think, John, is when you are in that headspace of like, is this ever going to happen? Like feasibly, could this ever happen? You start, and I think that's the way a lot of people feel right now is the way these prices are and the way my income is and what it takes to even get a $400,000 house or $300,000 house is astronomical. And so you start to feel like the gap getting wider and wider. And if you start feeling hopeless, you're,

then the reaction is, well, who cares? Like, whatever. I'm just going to live my life. And next thing I know, I'm seeing you out at Applebee's and at Chili's and you're buying up the bar. And I'm like, listen, you're just making it worse. Don't lose hope because when you lose hope, it's like you just widen the gap even further. Or you make...

quick, unthought through decisions when you feel hopeless. - That's right. - Right? - Yeah. - And that's when you just go by the house. - That's right. - And then in seven years, when there's a market correction and your adjustable rate mortgage goes way up, a really, really wealthy person is gonna buy it from you on, from the bank at pennies on the dollar. And you just help that person get even richer than they already are, right? - Yeah. - Because you just, and,

it's heartbreaking to me and sometimes it's one of those things like people ask me in interviews like what would you tell 22 year old you and I just laugh and go nothing because that guy was an idiot he wouldn't listen and so I feel like sometimes we're just talking to a wall because I remember being 27 and thinking this is never gonna happen yeah

And that's just simply because I didn't know what it was going to be like. Yeah. You know, the time's going to pass. Right. I mean, I keep saying, I mean, I feel like I'm on repeat saying that the time's going to pass anyway, but the work, put the work in. It makes me think of that scripture. Dave quotes it all the time. Hope deferred makes the heart sick.

And a lot of us are hardest sick because we're like, man, I had this hope, but it feels like it's never going to happen. But if you can just strike up that desire, because it says when desire comes, it's a tree of life. So if you can have enough desire to go, I'm going to see this through. I don't exactly know what the,

path looks like. Like, I'm just going to keep being smart with money. There's something to be said for staying the course. I'm going to keep budgeting. I'm going to keep being smart with money. I'm going to keep setting money aside. And you will look up and you will have a nice stack of money that you've saved up. Who knows how long it's going to take, but you will look up and what used to be a mountain turns into a hill and what used to be a hill turns into a little, you know, just a little swoop. And you might be in a different state.

You might have different friends in your house. That's right. You might have a different job. When I was 27, YouTube didn't exist. Podcast wasn't a thing. That's right, John. And so who knows what's coming down the way. Exactly. Just take the next right step. And that's such a good point. I'm going to belabor this a little bit longer because I do think this is probably helping someone. Who among us can look 10 years ago and say, I knew exactly where I was going to be 10 years later?

No one. Like you don't know where you can guess and you can pontificate about it and say, well, in seven years I will be here and I'll have this job and I'll live over here with this many kids. But you truly don't know. And so especially now, if you're seeing the AI stuff coming out in our field, like it's all going to be different in seven years. I mean, but the point is,

The point is, you know, you make these plans, but you don't know what's on the other side of time. And all you can do is be consistent and do the things that you know to do. Don't grow weary in well-doing because at the right time, you'll reap a harvest of blessing. That's really what it is. And that's really what we're getting to is just don't give up. Keep going. We know it's hard. We acknowledge it's difficult. I look at the numbers and sometimes I'm like,

Just that. I don't know what to tell you. It's tough. You just got to be consistent. There's nothing to say, but it's similar to the grief...

is similar to sitting with somebody who's just lost a loved one. Yeah. You had a dream. You had a dream that you were going to drive a car that you felt safe in, that you were going to live in a nice home and it was going to look like the HGTV generation homes that you grew up watching. Right. You had this picture of what your life was going to be. And now it's different. And so I'll sit with you. It's the worst. Yeah. But it doesn't change the math. Just as similar as I've told people who have lost a child or a parent or a loved one,

They're gone. And so now what are we going to do? Right? It's that heartbreaking moment. Here was this dream. I was going to be of this and this. It's gone.

And because this is we're looking at the numbers, the numbers are what the numbers are. The interest rates are bananas. The houses are expensive. There's very few of them that are out there. And if there is a good one at a reasonable price, it's it's war. I'm in that war right now. Right. And so it just is what it is, what it is. I'm not going to give my integrity over. I'm not going to give over my frustration. I'm not going to make a rash decision that puts my family at risk. Right.

I'm going to choose and own reality and this is it. And then I'm going to make the next right step I can given that set of truth. Yeah, I love that. I keep thinking like tactically, we're feeling this, what can we do? And it just came in my mind. I love the social media handles that focus on

everybody's home is not aesthetic. Everybody's life is not aesthetic. And I love following those accounts because it makes you realize, okay, like I can be content where I am. Like everybody's cabinets aren't bright white with, you know, white marble countertops. Micah won't kill you. Exactly. Exactly. Kill you. Right. And I'm like, at the very least, one of the things we can start doing is bringing more reality into our daily life and just, um,

finding ways to be content with where we're at and making sure that we're not comparing our current state with someone else's social media highlight real estate. Because if that's what you're reaching for, you are going to come up short every single time. Let's be honest about that. So anyway, John, this has been great chopping it up with you. Listen, I hope that conversation was helpful for you. And I'm so grateful that you're here. We're going to do our best to help guide you guys through this because this podcast

It's not easy. The mortgage market is not easy right now. Thanks for hanging with us. This is The Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw. Your other host today is Dr. John Deloney. He is the author of Building a Non-Anxious Life. And we're your hosts today, so give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225. Dr. John Deloney, let's just take a moment and also talk about what your...

show is doing. It's pretty wild times, man. Going bananas. I looked up and you were number one in your category. Yeah, it was pretty wild. We had a wild week. We hit number one in the health and wellness and then we hit number four on the big boy chart. So it's pretty cool. Like number four of all. Of all. Yeah, it was a fun week, man. It was fun. That's crazy. I don't like the fact that you're very nonchalant about this right now. You're like too humble. I need you to be like...

Like I need you to like go bananas. Well, it's because as soon as I go bananas, I walk in my front door and my daughter's like, can I have a snack? And I'm like, yes, you can have a snack. And my son's like, why did you? Yeah. So it's awesome. It's cool. And yeah, it's a pretty neat thing.

Well, I will. We have a pretty amazing team that teaches me how to do all that stuff. So it's cool. That's awesome. Well, I'll go Hulk status for you because I think it's pretty, pretty awesome. If it wasn't for the team, I'd be sitting in the basement still, mumbling into a microphone, telling stories and...

So they pick the calls. They edit these shows. They take out my, and they make it sound right. They do the music. That's true. They master it. They mix it. I mean, without them, this doesn't exist. I feel that. It doesn't exist. Yeah. I mean, clearly, even on this show, there's a whole booth of people who are way better at their jobs than we are at ours. James isn't, but everybody else is pretty good. Actually, James is crushing. It's that Austin guy over there that, man. Yeah.

Oh my goodness. Well, let's take it to the phone lines. Let's take a call from Miles who's in Boise, Idaho. What's going on, Miles? Hello. Thank you both for taking my call. You're welcome.

I've owned a business now for about three years. I'm 35 years old and I have three boys. Oldest is seven, youngest is two. And starting the business plus living the typical American way, I found myself now in $97,000 in debt. And right now I pay myself about $72,000 a year. And I'm

I'm at a point where I feel like it's hard. I'm a single operator LLC, and so it's hard to manage the debt and everything else I got going on. That $97,000 doesn't include $395,000 on a mortgage. Okay.

And, uh, no, you're guys a segment or what you guys just talked about them. The housing market was perfect because the position I'm in right now is I'm like, should I sell my house to do like a debt reset? Um, we have, we have about 205,000 in equity. Uh huh.

But that puts me in the housing market either, you know, in seven years or, you know, paying outrageous prices like we were talking about earlier. And you talk to some people and they're like, oh, man, you're crazy. That's 2.875 interest. There's no way you shouldn't do that. And so just looking for an opinion from you guys. Well, when it comes to selling the house, unless you were in a situation where the payments were

more than 25% of your take-home pay every month. And, you know, if you're at 50%, then I would consider, you know, making that switch. But if you're comfortably making your payments and you're in the market and you're in at a good interest rate, and it technically is a home that you can afford, then I wouldn't sell it. So tell me more about your mortgage payment. Our mortgage payment is $1135, or I'm sorry, $2135. $2135? Yeah.

Yes. And how much how much every month are you pulling out in payroll for yourself? About six thousand sixty five hundred usually, I guess. Sixty five hundred. Yes. And what about your wife? She stays at home. OK, so I mean, it's it's a little on the high side, but.

It's a little on the high side, but at this point, I still think that there's some areas that we can exhaust to get it back where it needs to be and start making some headway on the debt. In this market, I'm just really careful to tell people, go sell your house. That's not what I would do in this situation. I'm thinking, okay, $72,000. There's room to go up here, and I would rather explore that first before we do something massive. Unless you

Right.

Right. Well, I think that, I think for us, it's a matter of like right now I'm breaking even. So even getting to baby step one is difficult. And so then it's like, if I was able to sell the house and pay off even some of the stuff that the business carries, then I could, I could afford to pay myself more, you know, roughly about $2,000 more a month. And so I'm like, well, we could have, you know, money, money there, you know, the leftover equity. Plus I could pay myself more. That seems real appealing, but I, man, I, I don't think we haven't,

rented a house since like 2011 or you know so it's like i just don't know what it's like out there and there's some fear in that it's wild in the streets brother it's wild right what how many kids you have i have three three kids three boys okay one variable that you seem to have taken off the table that may just have to come on come back on the table even if just for a short season

is mama doing some kind of part-time work at home, full-time job, doing something. It's a must. I don't see a way forward. And it's not forever. It's for two years, for two and a half years, for 18 months. But it's either you give away your home or you give away one of your core values, which is mom's going to stay home with the three boys. And Jade and I both also know, like, we...

Pay for childcare and babysitters. It's the only thing crazier than the housing price is the childcare cost, right? Right. But if she has an opportunity to make a couple thousand bucks a month on top of childcare and y'all could really get after this thing, man, you're talking 18 months, 24 months of really miserable living to change everything. Right. Okay. Versus seven years of hoping the guy doesn't raise the rent on you.

Right. Oh, man. Yeah, that's good. Okay. Yeah. I appreciate that. And you'll shed tears. You'll be sad. You'll be heartbroken. All those things. You'll have values. You've got a vision. And the math doesn't work. Right. Right.

Right. Yeah. I'm 100% with John. I think that this is, it boils down to income and sacrifice. Your mortgage payment, you're probably feeling that because it's $500 more than it should be. And so you're feeling that every single month. And then you've got a wife that's staying home and you're a single income family in that way. And you've got the stress of you're self-employed. So it's like, you got to get after it. So on the

on the one hand, I think you're used to that pressure of if I don't go out and get it, it ain't happening. Right. So I think on one, on one side of it, you understand what that means. And I think you just have to tap into that, that self-employed. I run my own business. I, in the words of Dave Ramsey, I go out, kill something and drag it home. I think that's the part that you're going to have to tap into and your wife too. And I think that if you guys can reestablish,

really link arms and do this for a season, you'll come out on the other side and you will be debt free. But to John's point, there is going to be a sacrifice that's unavoidable, 100% unavoidable in this case. So I wish I had something easier to say. The method is never easy. You've just got to go out and get after it. This is the Ramsey Show.

This is The Ramsey Show. I am Jade Borshaw. He's Dr. John Deloney. We're taking your calls all hour long. The number's 888-825-5225. Let's face it, John, taxes are confusing. And if you buy into some of the tax service ads out there, you'll believe that you'll never get a grasp on taxes and you shouldn't even try. Or maybe worse, they suck you into offers that won't help you win with money. But

We think that you guys deserve the truth. So here's today's tax tip. Number one, a tax refund is not a bonus. I know. I know you don't want to hear it. It's a refund. It was your money all along and you earned that money. You loaned it to the government all year long. Interest-free. Interest-free.

And man, they've made some great choices with your money. Oh, man. Golly. Listen, I can go out. I can go on a limb on that. And I know. Let me just talk to the folks that I know I'm talking to. I know you like getting that tax refund because that's your trip to Disney. That is a down payment on a new car. Every year you figure that's, you know, that's the four wheeler. Like every year you're like, this is my little Christmas present. This is how we get our stuff in our house. But.

You could probably take that money and add it back, like change your withholding, add it back into your month-to-month budget and be far more productive with it. And if you wanted to save it, you could save that money in a high-yield savings account and actually get a rate of return on it. Just that.

saying. So if you get a big tax refund, sure, you can have fun with it and spend it on stuff you don't need. But the smart thing to do is to put it to work on your current baby step, like I was just saying, then adjust your paycheck withholdings. So this doesn't happen again next year, because that's money that you could use each month to pay off debt. So if you haven't already filed, make sure that you work with a service that you can trust.

If your taxes are complicated, you need to get a Ramsey trusted tax pro on your side. And if you're comfortable filing your own taxes, like if you've just got that nine to five job, both you and your husband, nobody's self-employed, whatever that is, you could probably do it yourself using a Ramsey smart tax. That would be the way to go.

It's got low upfront pricing with no hidden fees and no agendas. So if you want to get into this, go to ramseysolutions.com slash tax to see what's your best situation and get started. Again, it's ramseysolutions.com slash tax. John, have you done your taxes yet?

I was just now texting the accountant over the phone during the break here. For the first couple of years, I did them on Ramsey Tax and it was amazing. Yeah. Just walked me right through it. It's pretty simple. That's good. Mine are a little too complex for that one. So I have to work with a pro. That was a lo-fi flex if y'all didn't catch that. She actually runs businesses and is...

doing quite well for herself. So are you, John. I just... You're over here looking like Scrooge McDuck. I'm over here trying to... I'm like Huey, Dewey, or Louie. All right, let's take a call. We got Caitlin from Dallas, Texas. What's going on, Caitlin? Hi. Hey, what's up? What up? Oh, nothing much. Just on the show trying to not let work find out that I'm not working, but I feel like this is a good cause. Yeah.

So are you like hiding out in a stall? Are you working from home? I have a pretty hybrid position, so I kind of can set my own schedule in terms of where I'm at. So yeah, I'm at home right now. This is why hybrid work is going away, Caitlin, right here. Well, she's changed her name, so no one... Don't use your real name. No one will know you're here. There you go. All right, so what's up? I'm using my lunch break. Let's do that. There you go. How can we help? So I have...

probably a pretty basic question, but I just hear so many conflicting opinions and I would just love a more personalized approach to it, I guess. So my car was totaled and I got about $10,000 from the insurance settlement. So now I'm wondering, I guess how much car I can afford.

I have about 15,000 in savings, but I would really not... I would like to not touch that because it's kind of my emergency fund slash down payment later on. And so I'm kind of in between...

And cars just, I don't really care about cars that much, but I have always wanted probably the most impractical car that y'all could think of, a Volkswagen Beetle convertible, which I hear all the stories about those. But I feel like if I'm going to have it at any point in my life, it would be most practical to have it while I'm young and don't have any other obligations. Here's why you're awesome, Caitlin. Here's why you're awesome.

You've called us and you've been like, all right, here's the deal.

I want to make like nine terrible decisions and all of my friends and family are telling me that those are dumb, but will you two please sit with me and say, it's all good. All these choices are terrible. Caitlin, if when it's said and done, if when it's said and done, you have $10,000, you have $10,000. And an emergency is, I don't know when you total your car, that's what your emergency fund is for new.

That's true. But if she wants to keep that for her down payment and she's got $10,000, I know a lot of great $10,000 cars out there that you can buy in cash. I know, but this is important, Jade. Caitlin, hold on. I'll fight this fight for you. It has to be a Volkswagen convertible bug. Thank you. Yes. That starts with a rope pull. I know it.

How much do those cost? I'm sure he loves that one. We're all car people, but we also aren't into like children's cars masquerading as adult cars. That's the thing. What does, what is, what does the car cost? Like what year were you trying to buy? What were you trying to spend on this?

Based on my little bit of research that I've done so far, the best years are 2014 and after because supposedly they got rid of a lot of the complications that they're kind of known for with those years. How much does the 2014 cost?

It depends on mileage, and that's the thing. I would want something. With my previous car, I was planning on driving it until it just could not go any farther. I really didn't want it to be totaled, but now that I have this opportunity, I guess, to get a new one. It's only an opportunity if you use it wisely. It's not an opportunity. You did not win anything.

You didn't win. I know. You didn't win. That's what I needed. Okay. It's just not an opportunity. All insurance money is supposed to do is make you whole, and they almost never do, but that's the goal here. I know. That was why I really didn't want it to be, but... You didn't win. Okay. So back to my question. If you get a 2014 bug, how many miles does it have to be for you to get it for $10,000?

Or $12,000. I have not been able to find one that meet those circumstances. I think a more realistic number would be closer to $20,000. And so that would include financing. No. No? Okay. In no world would we tell you to take a loan out on a 2014...

bottomed out depreciated asset okay yeah well it could be 2018 too or whatever is you're amazing let me let me go back let's let's go back because foundationally we have two different ways of thinking you're still in a a phase of life how old are you

I'm 24. Okay. You're still in a fit. How long does your brain develop, John? I was about to say, my son came in. He's like, Dad, listen, listen. I just want to jump off the roof. But listen, it's going to be fine. Just listen, Dad. I was like, that's a terrible decision. Caitlin, this is you telling us. This is the same conversation just with you, Caitlin. Listen. It's so good.

I want to try to meet you where you're at, but what I hope to get you to think about is just the philosophy behind it. Because if I just stand here and say it, don't finance a car, pay cash for a car. You're like, okay, Jade, but why? There's always the but why there. And what I want to get you to understand is that we have a whole show here. This show has been going on for 30 years. Millions and millions of people have called in. And do you want to know what one of the number one things that...

That trips people up. It's the biggest frustration in their budget. It's their car payment. Because you get... That's what I don't want to be. And you're headed there. Because you get in a car payment and you go, oh, I got it. I'll pay it off.

And then by the time you paid off, you're like, oh, it's time to get another car or you total your car. You're like, this is my opportunity. And you get in another car loan and then you drive that for a while. And because you feel guilty, you drive it into the into the ground. And then you're like, oh, this one's driven into the ground. I guess I got to get another car car note. And you start this cycle of this is just what you do. This is how you pay for cars. And before you know it, you're 56 year old.

56 years old calling us, I'm in debt and my car payment is this and my student loans are this. And you create this cycle of debt. So what I want you to understand is if you can start now,

To change the way you pay for things and you just decide I draw a line in the sand. I don't borrow money. I'm not going to give away my biggest wealth building tool, which is my income every single month in payments. I'm going to buy what I can afford. And what you can afford is a $10,000 to $12,000 vehicle, Caitlin. A Corolla. This is The Ramsey Show.

This is The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. This is Dr. John Deloney. Hey, give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225. We'll talk about your life, your money, whatever it is that's going on in your life. We'd be happy to share our opinions with you. All right, let's go to the phone lines. We got Elizabeth in Santa Cruz, California. What's going on, Elizabeth?

Hi, Jade and John. My question is, does it make sense to accept a gift of $1 million from my in-laws to purchase a house?

and I can dive into some more context. I'm happy to accept it on your behalf if you don't want it. One million dollars. Yeah, tell us more about it. I need to know more. My husband and I are in our late 20s. Our income is $194,000 per year. We have no debt, and we would like to start a family in a couple years.

I would anticipate our income dropping down to $120,000 if I reduce my hours to take care of a baby.

If the gift didn't exist, we would just keep renting and saving for five more years while my husband finishes a PhD, and then we would move somewhere more affordable because we really don't ever anticipate being able to buy a house in Santa Cruz, California. However, yeah, my in-laws offered to give us this $1 million as a gift specifically to buy a house here in Santa Cruz, and that

That money is coming from my husband's deceased grandmother's truck. I guess I'm just concerned that a $1 million house in our financial context is just a little out of proportion and it really would be nearly 100% of our net worth.

Even though it's just a normal house, like a three bedroom, nothing too crazy. It's just that it's Santa Cruz. Right. You're in an inflated market for sure. My question is, okay, so this is from grandmother's trust. Was this money that was going to be his? He's just, they're just giving it to him early or? No. Or it truly is a gift. Yeah.

It is theirs and it would be a gift. And go ahead, John. What are the strings attached to this? Are they cool? I mean, if it has to be in Santa Cruz, if my yeah, if my in-laws said, hey, we would like to bless y'all with a million dollars to buy a house. My in-laws are amazing. There'd be no strings attached to it. I would I would gladly accept that gift.

Yeah. I know many who don't. Or like Jade said, I'm going to give you a million dollars to buy a house, but you'll buy it in the zip code I tell you you're going to buy it in. And if y'all ever get transferred or moved, that's our money that we're going to extract from the sale of this. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, I wonder about that. That's where it gets really, really messy. So I think it just depends. Right. How much of this trust is this million dollars? Is it a $50 million trust and this is just one of the millions? Yeah, I want to know that.

To be honest, I'm not sure the full amount, but I think it's less than a fifth. Less than a fifth of it? So it's a lot of money. So nobody's starving here? No. Okay. Let me ask you this. Just level with us real quick. How does that make you feel? Because I...

to you know this is a little bit different from what john said but i i don't even know what that looks like and i feel like i would be so overwhelmed by a gift like that it might be hard to take how do you feel does it make you be like yes we hit the jackpot or are you like oh my my my like i don't know what do you think i am intimidated just imagining our net worth like ballooning and exploding like that overnight fills me with some anxiety

I would just want to take care of that money very well. Be a good steward of it. Can I ask you where that anxiety comes from? Is it because those people, those people are the ones that have a million dollars? Not people like us. Right? Maybe. Maybe a little bit of a feeling of ill-gotten gain somehow. Yeah.

Well, can I interject? Because there is part of this that and you can tell me at any point, Elizabeth, if you're like, no, that's not what I mean. But like, there is something to be said for when you walk step by step.

and you gain you're you know you're growing you're gaining your net net um worth little by little as opposed to it's like it's like it's like a toddler waking up and being 17 right as opposed to you know we see folks who win the lottery and they're like i just won the lottery and they're all excited but then you talk to them five ten years later and it's busted so i could see where there's some anxiety there um why is this different from that john

Well, I, or is it different? I remember a great theologian once said that sometimes people can be as proud of the things that they don't have as people are of the things that they do. So there is, there can be an ethos. I'm not that kind of, I would never spend that kind of money on a house. I'd never buy that kind of car. Right. And if like Davis used this example, if you have $200 million, right.

and your net worth and you gave away $20 million last year and you buy a $200,000 car, that ratio is very similar. Sure. Right? To somebody who gave somebody $20, right? Or bought a $20 car. So all I have to say is if your identity is I don't do stuff like that, then I would tell you maybe check that. And there's a pretty extraordinary gift and an opportunity to set your family up in a community where you're going to have family, et cetera. And also, if the thought of going to bed every night

Here we are. And by the way, y'all make 190 grand. Y'all are clearly smart and doing great. Right. Um, but this idea that I just can't go from zero to 75 that fast, like that's just too much for me to wrap my head around. Um,

Then gently decline and say, no, thank you. What if you just said, hey, a million feels overwhelming. Is there a way that we could, you know, we've been trying to save for a down payment. Can you help us get to the down payment that we've been trying to afford? Maybe there's somewhere in the middle. Or maybe they buy the house and you rent from them. Oh, no, I don't like that. You don't like that? No. All right. I don't know why. I just I feel like that's even more tangled because they're still renting.

I, if you have a great relationship with them, I wouldn't lose sleep over taking the money. But I'd want every everything clear. Like if we decide to sell this house, is this a gift? Is this a loan? Is this a down payment? I want all that in writing on all that clear. I want everybody to have all hearts clear before we make a big decision like this. But if there's a second of hesitation when it comes to strings or I just feel gross about then then just say no. Thank you. What's your husband think?

I think he's also a little bit anxious about being able to maintain and take care of a $1 million house on our income. Well, wouldn't he be paying cash for it?

So you wouldn't spend more than a million, right? And it's a Santa Cruz house, so it's probably 1,700 square feet, three bedrooms, one bath, right? Yep, that's correct. So you're just mowing the lawn. Yeah, you're mowing the lawn. The roof's going to be the roof, right? Yeah. So you make $200,000 a year. Y'all could cover the repairs and things on a house like that. Okay. I'm feeling better about it already. Okay, good. But listen to your husband's intuition. If he knows his mom and dad...

And he knows, oh man, if they give us a million dollars, we're going to hear about this every Christmas, every Thanksgiving, for the rest of our lives. Basically, for a million dollars, they're buying our loyalty. They're buying their grandkids in proximity. I don't want to be on the hook to anybody. Listen, you can look back on the track record. Let's play that out. Have they...

Are they generous people? Are they always giving gifts? You know, big or small, how have they been, you know, whenever they've offered a gift? Or is this their first time? Because this is worth noting. If they are also receiving a windfall for a first time,

they may not know how they're going to be as gift givers. Does that make sense? Let's just pretend if I won the lottery today and I'm like, oh, I won the lottery. I'm going to help my whole family out. And I start giving away a million dollars to each of them. I might go into it thinking that I won't have any strings attached.

But because I've never tested that before, you might realize, dang, a million dollars, it does have an emotional hold on you and you do have an expectation for what they'll do. You're going to pick up the phone and be like, you're not buying that car. Yeah. It's like, whoa. Yeah. So there is part of this that you do need to consider. Like,

Were your in-laws already wealthy people and they've already been generous or is this new for them? So these are some, I like this conversation. I do too. It's a fun conversation and it's such an obnoxious amount of money, right? For most of us, it might happen at $10,000 or $2,000 or $500 or whatever. But I think that idea about strings and can y'all sleep at night is good. And I also like, man, if it's your ego holding you back, check that. Check that.

I kind of, if it were me, she can do what she wants. This is not a right or wrong answer. I feel like I'd be comfortable with taking the down payment on the house that we would have bought, that we would have been able to afford, right? You're just getting there a little bit sooner. I feel like that's fair and the safe option. I'll take the million, Alex. This is The Ramsey Show. You're listening to The Ramsey Show, scripture and quote of the day.

That's Proverbs 3, verse 5 through 6. That's perfect for this show.

So many folks call in, John, and it's like, man, if I'd only known better and we're kind of living that like rear view mirror, shoulda, coulda, woulda, it's like you can't change what you did. All you can do is what you do next. That's right. Man, let's go straight to the phone calls and the phone lines where we got Nick in Salt Lake City. What's up, Nick?

Hey, so I just had a question for you guys. So me and my wife are looking to buy our first home and it would be around 30% of our take-home pay, but it has a base in an apartment, so that's with the rental. So without the rental, it's like about 55% of our take-home pay, but with the rental, it's only about 30. Is that like a risk willing to, like a smart move to make or is it not? I would not. I wouldn't. The only way that this makes sense is if I can afford it

Both ways, because if something happens and your renter is messed up or you have a renter and they mess up the place and you've got to kick them out and then you have to have repairs done. And so no one can rent it for a while. You're up a creek and you do not want this to be at 55 percent of your income.

Does that make sense? Okay. So, and... Go ahead. Sorry. I was just going to say, we can make it like work for a couple months if we didn't have renters or anything like that. And we have a decent amount of savings. So we'd still have around $50,000 left in savings. So if anything did happen, we'd be able to cover that. And then another thing is like, my income is going to double in about the next two years. Okay. So it's kind of like we'd buy now and then be able to...

be able to kind of afford it, be a little house poor for a couple of years. Yeah. Two things, brother. Listen, number one, we would not have a show. We wouldn't exist. This thousand person company would not exist if everybody's plans always worked out, whether it's marriage, who they're going to, who they're dating, the car is going to appreciate the house is going to go up. My job's going to double like everything.

people make decisions based on things they think they project into the future that if they think it's going to happen, it doesn't. Here's the other thing. I'm just going to make up some wild story here. Okay. Let's pretend, um, I don't know, some mysterious illness just made its way across the globe and governments all over the world just

went bananas and hit the brakes on everything and shut it all down. And then in a particular country across the nation, there was rules that went out overnight that said you can't evict anybody for one month, six months, a year, two years, and they don't have to pay rent.

Yeah. Right. And if that I mean, just imagine if that were to happen. Now, I know I'm being kind of crazy there, but that like Jade and I just took that call over and over and over and over and over again. And so, dude, I know you want it. You've probably found the place. It's probably feel so good. Partridge in a pear tree. Can't afford it, man. Yeah, it just is what it is. Yeah. I mean, you used you used the word house poor.

And I think that I think that it's probably easy to say in your mind what you think that will feel like and to say, oh, it's OK if we're house poor for a couple of months. I'm like, if you've never experienced that, you do not want to experience that. That is so stressful. It is such a negative impact on your relationships. And my thing is like, listen, if you're so sure that your income is going to double in the next two years, don't just wait two years. Yeah. Party, man. It's going to go. It's going to double. What do you do for a living?

Um, it's kind of a niche job. I do automotive interior repairs for used car dealerships. So I'm going to buy out. It's just a family business. I'm planning on buying that out in two years. So are you going to borrow money to buy it out? Uh, no, just, uh,

Kind of a slow payment over time kind of thing. Good. Cool, man. Good on you. That's awesome. Yeah. To be clear, don't buy this house. Yeah, don't buy this house. You can't afford it, man. I want you to have it, but you just can't afford it. And I love the idea. Like, I think it's cool if you have a situation where you bought the house and you've got the apartment rental, but I think what makes it even cooler is if you can afford it on your own. It's almost like having roommates, right? Like, you don't want to move into an apartment and say, I can only afford this apartment if...

I have a roommate and you, you know, or I'll buy this house and I'll have a roommate and you can only afford it with the roommate because you're up a Creek if something happens. And so that's, I'm standing on that. So we love it. That's a good way to put it. So thank you. You're welcome. I hate to tell people that they can't buy a house. I know he's going to have to go tell his wife. She's all excited. He'd be like, uh, listen, honey. Well, now we get to tell Bryce in Eugene, Oregon that he might have to sell his car. What's going on, Bryce?

What's up, B-Money? How's it going, guys? Doing good. How can we help? Yeah, so I just... I guess I'll give you a little backstory. I bought a truck a couple years ago because I started my own business when I lived in Texas. And...

Um, I totally, it was my first truck. Didn't really know what the heck I was doing. And I ended up on like 30 grand on it. I was upside down on my previous car that I had bought for my mom and it was kind of a big, big mess. So, um, anyway, uh, I owe 14,000 on the truck currently. And, um, and, uh,

uh, the truck's only worth like $11,000. And so my wife and I are trying to get out of debt quick and, um, are trying to figure out, you know, I mean, it's a really reliable truck. We could start putting, we're at my payments for like $520 a month. Um, but we're paying, we're trying to pay, trying to pay more. Um, we're paying $800 a month right now. Um, and trying to see if we can maybe pay more to get it paid off. Is it your smallest debt? But I mean,

It is. So that's our smallest debt. Our other debt is my wife's student loans. She owes $26,000 in student loans, and then those are the only two. So all our credit cards are paid off. Good. And so those are our only two. What's your combined income? I might...

So I'm the only one working. She's trying to find a job. We live up in the boonies in Oregon, but it's $49,000, but our housing is paid for. So we don't pay for housing. Okay. Housing is paid for, but $49,000. Mm-hmm.

Okay. I still think that you've got to find a way to find more income here. You've got $40,000 of debt. To your question, I wouldn't sell this truck if you can pay it off. I think you can pay it off in...

a year if you really get after it. It's $14,000 and it's not worth going through the rigmarole of trying to sell an upside down vehicle and doing all that. I think that it's low enough and it's not like you have a bunch of other debts that go along with it. And so for that reason, I'd say just it's reliable. You've had it for a while, just pay it off and I think you're good. So the housing that's paid for, what does that amount to?

Oh, when you say... Like what's it worth dollar for dollar? In this area, probably $1,400 a month just in rent, but we don't pay for electricity or water. So probably $1,500, $1,600 a month. So it's worth about $1,500. Okay. Yeah, either way, I just think...

I would find ways to get your income up in order to do this quicker. I think that if you didn't have debt, you might have, you might be able to kind of rest on your laurels a little bit and be like, all right, you know, we've got this cool deal through our work, but I want you in a situation that your income is sustainable. Even if,

Does that make sense? Like, even if that's not part of it. And I feel like $49,000 would not be sustainable in that situation. And even if it were $55,000, right, I'd still be saying, ah, let's get that up to the national average at the very least is what I'd be looking to do. So to your point, I think you're doing right. You're paying off your truck. It's the smallest debt. You're paying as much extra as possible. If you want to make that go faster, you got to increase that income.

How's that land? That's awesome. Um, and I guess one other thing that, um, you know, I, I'd have a question is, is that we have, um, my, my, my heart is to buy houses and, um, and flip them and potentially rent them. And that eventually be my, um, my full-time job. Um, so obviously I think, I mean, in my mind, we need to get completely paid off of our debt and then, uh,

If I'm understanding everything correctly, I need to save 30% to buy the first house. For your personal residence, you're putting 20% down as much as you can, honestly. 5% to 20% is usually where most people land. If you can put more, that's excellent. But just understand that moving forward, if you want to buy real estate, after you've purchased your personal residence and paid it off, now you're buying real estate in cash.

And that's a very different equation, which is all the more reason to pay off this debt and start getting your income up. Because if you're saving up to pay cash for real estate, you got to get some money coming in. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, folks, Dave Ramsey here. You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring. You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind, and that's EveryDollar. The EveryDollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money. Start budgeting with EveryDollar for free right now. Just go to RamseySolutions.com slash EveryDollar and download the app today. That's RamseySolutions.com slash EveryDollar.