The Pain of Transformation Isn’t Easy but It’s Always Worth It
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. The phone number is 888-825-5225. My co-host is number one best-selling author many times over Ramsey personality, host of The Rachel Cruze Show, and my daughter, Rachel Cruze. Open phones here. Again, 888-825-5225. Stephanie's in Dallas. Hi, Stephanie. How can we help? Hi, Dave. Appreciate you taking my call. Sure. What's up? So, I...

Feel like I'm on the edge of losing everything I have very much been financially responsible to my best extent but I find myself in a very difficult career situation and I'm very afraid of making the wrong step and everything falling apart Wow

Where did all of this loss of confidence come from? Actual financial facts or something else? I think it's something else. I have had a great career, but I have been unemployed now for eight months. What's your career? So I work in M&A and also, let's just say IT. What were you making?

$245,000 a year. Okay. That doesn't sound like someone that's about to fall off a cliff to me, but then you haven't had a job for very much. Why?

Honestly, it's been a lot of factors. It's been a tough job market, first of all. But part of the reason is that I'm located in Dallas. It's high competition here. But also, I have not wanted to move. I've wanted to stay in the Dallas area. So I haven't looked outside of Dallas. And I've been in Dallas for a long time.

And I have two teenagers that I'm really struggling not to have to move them and change their schools and all of those things. And so you're a single mom. How long you been divorced? That's correct. I've been divorced over three years, about three and a half years. How long were you in that position? The M&A?

My career is about 25 years. I've been at the 345 range now for up until now about eight years. Okay. What was the cause of the job loss, Stephanie, to begin with?

I was laid off actually because the M&A activity went down because the interest rates on companies being able to borrow investment capital shot up. And so I was actually laid off in December for my company. And that's also part of the struggle is that that industry is having some difficulty right now. And it's high competition, a lot of people that have been without work. Yeah.

Well, there are people doing M&As without borrowing money to do it. You know that, right? That's correct. And I've been trying to find those people. Well, I mean, they may not be in Dallas, but you've also got the double. Dallas is not oil-driven like Houston is, but it is somewhat oil-driven. And that's hitting that market, too. Okay. Wow. How old are the kiddos? What year in high school?

Yeah, so I have a boy that's 14 and a girl that is 12. Okay. All right. Are there other areas in the country that have more openings than just Dallas? Yeah, she can get a job.

Yeah, I have started. I mean, that's the thing is I've started in the last couple of months. You know, I tried for a while to kind of hold on and say, okay, I'm going to try to work this out. And then after about six months, I said, oh, yeah, this isn't going to. What have you been living on during this eight months?

Oh, so for the first seven months, I did get unemployment. Oh, okay. And so I was living off of unemployment and a small amount of child support that I get. So it was $3,500 a month. What's it take to operate your house?

So my expenses are $2,500. Okay. So you need $4,000 a month burn rate, $48,000 a year, a long way from $250,000. Yeah. So I've been... Okay. So you've got two choices, Stephanie. You're wise enough and you're math-oriented with what you do for a living to know...

That obviously doing nothing is burning, going to burn through any cash you've got, and you're going to reach an end point. And yeah, you're going to have some of those fears that are currently irrational, but they'll become real fears of losing things. Okay, so you've got to get employment, period. Now, you got two options. One is take the same skill set that you're using, because obviously you're an analyst, right?

Okay. You know how to run analysis on financial products and so forth. And that applies to that skill set applies to a lot of things in addition to mergers and acquisitions. Okay. So you can, you can land a job making a hundred.

If you want to camp out in Dallas till those kiddos finish up their little high school careers and you just make less and that's okay. Meanwhile, maybe you keep looking in Dallas or the kiddos are moving because mom's going to make 300 in Charlotte or Atlanta. Yeah. That's okay. Honey, they're going to be okay. They're pretty resilient little characters.

And, you know, their life is even 150 in Dallas. I mean, anything you can land with for survival. So I think you probably I think you've been staying right in the M&A lane. And I want you to step out of that lane and go for a broader swath in your look and in your thought pattern on what you're going to take and then decide, am I going to settle for something less using the same skill set for the next five years?

Yeah. And finish these high schoolers up. Is it worth that to me? Because basically you're saying it's going to cost you $100,000 a year, $150,000 a year. So in order for these high schoolers to stay put, you're willing to give up 600 grand.

yeah i'm not i'm moving a high schooler's butt okay i was like i'm staying staying with my other friends yeah yeah no not for 600 but if you're but if you're if you're in a good position that's the thing is you to run your household is four grand a month yeah so there is i mean it's it's a total choice of values at that point exactly you can do whatever you want to do but i just i'm

Teenagers survive far worse things than moving. I agree. But my thing is, if it's something that, like obviously if she was not going to be making enough, if she was making 60 and she's like, I can't even find that, you know what I mean? Then that's one thing. I get it. But you're totally fine making 150 more than fine in her position.

But here's what I'm hearing, okay? This lady lived her life. She lived her life for her husband and her kids. The husband dumped her. Now she's living her life for her kids. And her confidence is eroding. And yet she is an amazing lady. And I want her to be who she's supposed to be.

And that's good for her kids. That's fair. That's good for her kids. If she steps into who she is. I agree. That's good for her kids. I agree. If they do it in Charlotte or Atlanta, that's not a bad thing. Kiddos, they're okay. Yes. Ask people who grew up with a mom or dad in the military. They live in a different high school every month.

And they did just fine. I'm not saying that they're not resilient. I'm just saying she's in a really blessed position to have those two options of what we're talking about. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you Ken's two books, Paycheck to Purpose and Proximity Principle. That'll give you some reading. And I want you to get yourself back out there, kiddo. You need to land something. It's been too long. Now, go get something. This is The Ramsey Show.

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NMLS ID 1591. NMLS ConsumerAccess.org. Equal Housing Lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Another Rachel is in Winnipeg. Hi, Rachel. How are you? I'm well, Dave and Rachel. How are you folks doing today? Great. How can we help?

Good. I have a question for you. So I am moved out. I'm fully on my own, which means I don't see my folks all that often. I also have a little bit of debt. So I work a full time job and a part time job. This upcoming weekend, we have a long weekend. And so I was able to get some hours in my part time job, obviously, when I get through those baby steps as soon as possible.

But I was offered some time to come up to my folks cabin and spend the weekend with them. And I think I'm just having a hard time reconciling paying off my debt as soon as possible versus spending intentional family time. And I wanted your advice on how to how to balance both of them. It's a great question. How much debt do you have?

About 22,000 Canadian, some of student loans and some of credit for debt. What's your income? At my full-time job, I make $54,000 a year, and then at this part-time job, I'm going to be making $15,000 an hour. Okay. What do you project being done? One year? Ideally, if I can, I mean, as soon as possible, but yeah, ideally a year, year and a half. And you're how old? I'm 27. And your parents are how old?

In their 60s. Okay. So in the scope of your life, if you didn't see them for an entire year, you would not be an unusual human. Yeah, that's true. I mean, again, people are deployed in the military. People do all kinds of things that are uncomfortable for short periods of time to create long-term comfort. So the tradeoff, however, is $15 an hour, so it's not –

It's not like you're, you know, what are you going to lose? 200 bucks or something? I mean, it's not, you know. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. I think you back kind of your way into it, Rachel, and just say, hey, my goal is in a year and a half, I want to be debt free. So what does that mean? And you can kind of back it out. And that way you can kind of calendar out and say, okay,

you know, every other month I'll go spend the weekend there and I can do that time-wise and mathematically to still hit my goal. Does that make sense? Like I think when it's kind of arbitrary and it's like you're kind of just like floating a little bit of, gosh, what's my life looking like? How much am I working? You know, when am I going to pay off my debt? When all of that is up in the air, I think it is hard to prioritize. But when you have kind of a rigid systematic plan and

it kind of gives you that permission to say, oh yeah, I have this weekend budgeted, quote unquote, to not work, to go see them. And that still works in my timeframe. So that way you can actually enjoy your time and you're not second guessing yourself constantly. It sounds kind of rigid, but I think the more rigid you are during it. Well, that gives you, that gives you the permission to not, to not do some of them and to do some of them. If you had a system, it's like a spending plan or a budgeting plan, same thing. Um,

The thing that I do want you to address, and I'm not accusing you of this. It's just a possibility, okay? So you can take this, in other words, for what it's worth. Sometimes when I'm in these situations, I act like in my little drama brain that everything is forever. And this isn't forever.

So when you get right down to it, you're going to miss four weekends. Yeah. You know, it's not like you're never going to see your parents again or one of them has a terminal illness. It's not a, you know, it's none of that. It's like four weekends at the lake with my parents and I'm 27. It doesn't sound real devastating.

When you kind of put it that way. It's just for now, not forever. Exactly, yeah. But in my little mind, I'm like, I never see my parents. You know, my drama brain kicks in, right? And it's like, forever! And it's not. It's not forever. And so sometimes it helps me to quantify it. And I think if you use those two, that on the emotions and what Rachel's suggesting on the budget and go, okay, I am going to give up two of the four.

And that's going to cost me 500 bucks towards my process. Yeah. But I'm still going to make my goal. And I'm actually probably going to pick up and work later a couple of nights that I wouldn't have in order to make up for that. So I can still hit my goal. And I think you can do some stuff like that. And then you feel okay about that.

Yeah. And I would say to Rachel, you know, this is a problem that like a lot of just family, you know, families have with kids. I don't want to be away from my kids or working parents are like, oh my gosh, you know, if I travel like whatever it is and kind of what you're saying, it can be so built up in your head. And this sounds so cheesy, but it's just true. Winston and I, we got a 12 month calendar we put in on one of our walls in our house. And it's just so cheesy.

And when it's like, I know for me with traveling and speaking and stuff, it's like, oh my gosh, it can feel, it feels overwhelming. I'm like, oh, I'm doing too much. And then you lay it all out visually and you're like, okay, this feels better because here's a week there. That's good here, here, here. You actually start to see it, you know? Yeah. It quantifies it and it does away with the drama. Yeah. And same with the budget. That's why we always say to have a written budget or on the EveryDollar app, see it visually because it kind of takes that out. Help me with the math because I can't do it in my head right now. Oh, you're asking me? How old were you in 2003?

I was a sophomore in high school, so 16. Okay. All right. And so we had a senior in high school, sophomore in high school, and a middle schooler. And I went on book tour for Total Money Makeover, and I was gone 42 days. I remember this.

Well, can we back up? Because talk about drama, Dave. I remember. Okay. So I was a sophomore. Okay. I remember you sitting us all down. We had a family meeting, which was a normal occurrence in the Ramsey household. We have family meetings. You know, someone's messed up. So we're all going to have a lot. Whatever it is. Like there's family meetings. Rachel's done something. I've done something. It probably was me, honestly. It's like, all right, we're going to hear. But I remember when you laid out this whole thing about how you love it. It was like this whole speech. And we're like, what is he getting at?

And he's like, I'm going on book tour for about a month and a half. And I remember I was like, okay. See ya. See ya. It genuinely was like, okay. I don't know. So to your point, things can be dramatic, especially in a parent's head or I don't know, in a person's head. My work-life balance is not good. I'm sorry, children. Rachel's like, eh, no big deal.

Well, and I will say, because you were present most of the other time. So that's it, too. We weren't abandoned. You were not abandoned children with a workaholic father. But I think the same kind of thing falls into this. Because we get the work-life balance question all the time. It's like, I'm afraid I won't see my children if I'm getting out of debt. Oh, stop it.

you know, get your butt to work. You know, it's just, and that's what I have to tell myself too. You know, and I'm like, okay, this is a sacrifice I'm going to do. And that book now, by the way, has sold 10 million copies. So, you know, that little 42 day book tour worked out. Okay. So, um, you know, so, so is the, is the price worth it? Is the price you pay worth it? You know, and, um, that, that's what we're looking at. And then to keep it all,

In sync with your life, too, because, yeah. It's good. What you're talking about writing it out like that, that gives you perspective. Yes, that's right. And you go, okay, 42 days out of the scope of my life. Four weekends for her out of the scope of her life, you know, is not. And all of a sudden, the little drama child inside my head starts to calm its butt down. Or the guilt of the parent, whatever it is. That's drama. That's parent's guilt.

You know, it's like, I'm not nurturing. It's, oh, brother. And the kid's like, yeah, whatever. I was at least.

So, yes, you can when you're in baby step two and you've got two little kids and you're working six jobs and for a period of time, you don't change as many diapers as the other one does. And that could be the husband or the wife. Maybe the wife's, you know, working 36 hour shifts as a nurse. I don't know whatever it is, but there's all kinds of stuff you can do for short periods of time. And the kids are truly yawning at your drama.

They're truly not affected because you're not doing this for a decade. That's what I was going to say. That's not the life pattern that you're setting up. It's not a life pattern, and it's not for a decade. And oh, by the way, if you're working really hard when you're at home and I need to spend time with the children, turn off your television. You're supposed to be spending time with your family. Or your phone. Binge watching Netflix or doom scrolling Instagram is not family time.

Damn! Now we got what you're spending your hours on. The Olympics are on and we're in the middle of a political season. You know how many of the Olympics I've seen this week? Zero. You what? I'm not an American, I know. I'm a communist. But, um, no. I mean, seriously. I've not watched it. Oh, it's so good. I'm sure it is. Yeah, I love it. There we go. This is The Ramsey Show.

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and shocking what they charge for them now. It's awesome what we charge, too, by the way. But now it's $12 on sale. The sale is something for you no matter what you're facing, whether you're battling anxiety, Dr. John Deloney can help, struggling with money, Rachel Cruz and Jade Warshaw and me and George Campbell can help, or you're feeling stuck in your professional life, Ken Coleman can help. There's lots of bestsellers there. RamseySolutions.com. Kelly is in Minneapolis. Hi, Kelly. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi, thank you for having me. Sure. How can we help? Well, my husband and I have been working really hard and paying off our debts and we're looking at being debt free outside of the mortgage by probably late October. Nice. We're really excited. But there's one debt in particular, my student loan. It's about $6,000. And I've recently learned that my employer started a student debt retirement match with

So if I'm not already contributing, let that 4% match, which I'm not currently, I can report my student loan payments and they will treat that as if I'm contributing and then match the 4%. So I'm wondering if it makes sense for that particular loan to continue paying it monthly just to get that 4% match. And keep the loan around longer than necessary?

No. Right. I don't know if it's worth it. No, it's not. No, I wouldn't stay in debt to get your employer 4%. Now, between now and the time you pay it off, can you get the 4%?

Yeah, the next couple months or whatever. Yeah, you've got three or four months worth of it. But 4% does not justify staying in debt. No, let's get rid of the debt as soon as you can. Darn, I wish they found that a year ago. I know. I can actually, I've looked and I can report all the payments I've made this year. Oh, wow, that's good. Oh, definitely do all that paperwork for sure.

Yeah, I'm already on it. Just scraping the free money off the table. Yeah, definitely. That's cool. Yeah. Now, Kelly, the problem with some of these assistants, anytime we get help with these types of things, the problem is it causes us to think illogically, and that is, oh, I'm going to stay in debt, which the purpose of the assistance is to get out of debt. But yeah, just gather up everything you can get out of this, but get out as soon as you can.

The faster you get out of debt, honey, the faster you're going to prosper. It is that simple. Sammy is in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Sammy. How are you? Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. How are you guys? Great. What's up?

Well, I have a question regarding a loan. I know your favorite question. Basically, I live with my mom and husband. We would like to sell our home, eventually move out of the city. We have a decent amount of repairs we need to do to the home to be able to sell it. We don't have good credit. We

We've heard about the home equity loan. We have a decent amount of equity in the home. We don't know much about it. What do you know about that? What do we know about it? A home equity loan? Is it a good idea? No. Okay. No. No, I mean, you're just borrowing equity on your home is what you're doing. You're going backwards when it comes to you owning your home. So my question is, what are the repairs?

One is a brand new AC, which is about $10,000. One is the pool being fixed, which is about...

eight to 12 that we've gotten estimates for. And then the last small thing is a small, old, you know, very old, lots of miles used car for my mom. Cause she's currently using my car. Okay. So just a car in general that hasn't even do with the house. Okay. What is, what does your mom make? She makes about 80,000. What do you make? Um,

I don't make much. I just am part-time delivering here and there. Well, what, because she has my car right now, and she makes a lot more than I could. What does your husband make? My husband, about $45. Do you guys have kids? Not yet. Not yet, okay. And then the house, tell me how much, if you sold the house today, how much would it be?

How much did you sell it for? We could probably sell it as is, maybe $350. Okay. If we did all these repairs, maybe $400. And what's the equity? How much do you have left to... We bought it for $170, and we owe about $130 on it. Okay. Here's what I would do. I would sit down this week and tighten your budget down to nothing. Okay.

and go get a $2,000 car. And then I want you to go get a $40,000 job. And that will pay for the repairs. When you guys household income, you're making $125,000. Yeah. You only need $20,000 for the repairs. You need $20,000. Whoa, whoa, whoa. You need $20,000. Go get it. Yeah. Well, the AC, we're supposed to do it in the next, like, month or else it's going to totally go out. How do you know?

Who's the AC genie? How do they know? We've had a few people over now that sell ACs.

and our bill is like 700 a month yeah because of it yeah so we don't have a lot of 10 grand that's 10 grand so 10 grand is asap so i mean yeah sammy if i were you i'd go get i want so your husband's working overtime you're working overtime and you guys are three of your piling their money in a in the corner as fast as you can pile it and get in an ac as fast as you can it's still working

When it goes out, we'll call it an emergency. It's not out yet. And you do need to replace it, but I'm not talking about waiting. If you get a job making $40,000, now you've got a household income of $165,000, I think you can come up with $10,000. I don't know how to find a job that pays that well for me. Well, you're going to have to be looking, which you haven't been doing. That would be a first step. And, I mean, that's only $20 an hour, $25 an hour. I mean, your target's paying $20 an hour.

So go over to Target and then run over to Walmart right after that. They're both paying $20 an hour. And just stack up these jobs and go get you. You need some money. Money comes from work, not borrowing. And then you get the AC fixed. And then you start talking about fixing the pool. And you do all this with a $2,000 car. Y'all have the money. Y'all got it. You just need to tighten down what you're spending to nothing by being on a budget and get your incomes up. All of you take extra jobs.

All of you. Until you get past this emergency. But I don't think you're going to do it, though. Well, tell me this. Would you... I mean, does it get messy, though, if the house...

is in their name mom's living there though or the house is in my like you know what i mean like she's living there free and using their car yeah i'm taking her money yeah okay i mean we're fixing the ac mom i agree i agree yeah but i'm just thinking of like there's always those layers when you have people that don't own the home that are in the you know what i mean like yeah i mean if if

She won't go get a job and you're taking mom's money. Mom might object. Yeah. Okay. But hey, everybody's diving on the ball here. We've got to fumble. Yeah. And we've got to recover here. We've got to recover. We've got to recover. Everybody game on. It's a household emergency. I mean, air conditioning in Phoenix is an emergency. Yeah, that's important. Yeah. Yep. It's 100 degrees, but it's a dry heat. You're killing me. It's like sticking your head in an oven.

It's a confection oven is what it is. It's dry. It's hot. I love Phoenix. That's what they always say, though. It's hot. It's really hot. But I will say, we are in Utah, and the no humidity thing is different. It is different, but it's still hot. It is still very hot. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Most of you are aware there are two types of student loans, government-insured student loans and private student loans. Government-insured student loans have a bazillion different programs that you can get on or off, most of which suck, but you can still get on and off a program until you can get yourself squared around and get the thing paid off.

Private student loans, however, are basically just a bank loan to go to college and you get no help from nobody until now. If you have a private student loan that is in default, you've been unable to pay your private student loan, it's gotten behind, you're probably experiencing some pretty interesting collections pressure.

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away your peace of mind and you don't see any way out, you need YRefi. YRefi refinances defaulted private student loans that other places won't touch. They give you a low fixed rate loan built for you, and it actually works out for them too. So here we go. Go to YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Elise in Indiana.

Elise says, I am a 28-year-old mother of two children. My fiance and I have been together for six years, and I have been the only one working. Two years ago, he started to learn how to trade stocks. At the time, neither of us were familiar with the process and knew it would take him some time to learn. He started out investing in Tesla, Apple, and Meta. The past two years, he's invested an unreal amount of money for my paychecks, which has caused some bills to go unpaid.

Whenever I'm stressed about the money going being wasted, I get scolded and accused of being controlling. He doesn't want to get a job because they don't pay enough. He says he will do DoorDash but makes excuses not to go. We agreed that he would get $1,000 from my tax refund to trade with and he blew it in a week.

He has put over $1,500 into yet another platform and maxed out one of my credit cards. I work from home and he yells when I'm on work calls and gets mad because my job is a priority. Oh my gosh, my job is paying the bills and funding his trading. I don't understand that this is his dream, but I can't do it anymore. At least I can't. I don't understand how you're still with this guy. I'm not worried about his dream. I can't do him anymore. That's terrible. Yeah.

Yeah, no, I'm done. I'm completely done. You've been with him for six years and nothing's happened. No, I'm done. This guy's got too many strikes. He has four strikes. Well, yeah, hear me out. He yells. He doesn't work. He steals your money.

And he calls you controlling. Strike four. You're out, buddy. And he has too much pride to go make any kind of money regardless of it. Oh, and he's lazy and won't work. Yeah. We got a lot, Elyse. We could probably go up to 10 about this guy. So I think he's your problem. You chose poorly, darling. I'm so sorry. Man. This guy's a bum. And you know it. After you wrote this down, Elyse, and you reread it before you hit send to us, you had to go, poor girl.

I hope she's okay. You had to look at your own story and go, oh my gosh. And let us be the strangers from the outside to say, because when you're caught up in this and you've been with someone for six years, that becomes your norm, right? Like there's a level that like you kind of almost become, well, I don't know any different. Like it's, you don't feel the pain as much because it's been the norm for six years. So just-

If you were my daughter, I would show up in the front yard, back the U-Haul up, put him in a corner, and move your butt out. Okay? I mean, this is the guy's abusive. He's lazy. He's a thief. He's awful. He's not bright. I mean, just not a smart man. He's not a smart man. Not a smart guy. What did Forrest Gump say? I'm not a very smart man. Yeah, this is this guy. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Hmm.

Sorry, Elise. I mean, that's it. You're not going to be able to convince them otherwise. You're not going to be able to show. Yeah, we're not. You're not married to him. We're done. It's probably his kids. But you're the only one earning money. I'm a mom of two children and my fiance. Or maybe maybe he is the dad. Yeah. But then there's six years. Two kids have been there six years. So anyway, by either way, I mean, you're the only one producing anything here. As soon as you get rid of this boat anchor, your boat will go really fast.

And you're not crazy, Elise, either. No, you're not. It can make you feel like, oh, my gosh. Nothing crazy is staying there 10 more minutes. Oh, this is awful. Get out, Elise. I'm so sorry. What a heartbreak. Yeah. And here's the thing. I almost feel like I need to yell this because you haven't moved out for six years. You're somehow...

thinking you can't do this on your own or he's somehow going to turn around or some other kind of dysfunction. So I really need to get my Papa Dave hat on and just stomp my foot really loudly and say, this is crazy. Okay, I did it. I just got it out of my system. Because, I mean, if you've been there six years, you've already, this is not your first ride on him yelling, controlling, being lazy, taking your paycheck. God, what a parasite.

Unbelievable. See, I hope we weren't unclear, darling. Okay. Kelly. Kelly is with us in Los Angeles. Hi, Kelly. How are you? Hello. How are you guys doing today? Great. How can we help?

I have a question. I'm a new listener for me. I'm kind of nervous. I'm sorry. It's okay. For about two weeks and a lot of the things you talk about, I've made the mistakes of credit card debt and overspending and not budgeting. I work for the state of California. I'm 56. I just paid off $2,800 of credit cards. Good for you. Kelly? Yeah.

You catch on quick, kiddo. Good job. Yeah. Yeah. I told myself, what's the point of listening and not putting it into action? Right. So I, yeah, I paid off $2,800. Um, so I, I've been working for the state for 26 years. So my health insurance is, is there for life. Kiddo, before I run out of time, what's your question right quick?

My question is about, I have a car lease, and I know that's a no-no. And it's over in the end of this year. Okay. I don't know what to do after that. I'll need a car. Yeah, I want you between now and the end of the year to save up a few thousand dollars and get you a beater car. Okay. So you can turn this thing in. Oh, okay. Are you over on miles?

Yeah, 200 miles over. Oh, you're not bad. Okay, that's good. You may have to write them a small check, so you need to get ready for that, too. Is the car torn up? Is there any excessive wear and tear? No. It's a 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Okay, but I mean, you haven't messed it up or something. Because they only charge you for two things when you turn in, being over on your miles and excessive wear and tear. And if you've got limited or little of that, you can just hand them the keys. But, of course, you've got to have transportation, right? Right.

Yes, correct. So we need to get you some money saved up between now and then. Yeah, and I would do that. And that gets rid of your car payment. That's very cool. Yeah, I would get your emergency fund first, Kelly. And then car, I mean, I would be saving up a couple thousand first. Yep, before you do anything. And then go back to your debt snowball. But having that set aside so that at the end of the year, which is like five months from now, yeah, you're able to get a car. So that's great. If you saved $1,000 a month, that'd be a $5,000 car. And you didn't do anything else between now and the end of the year, I'm going to call that a win. That's a win.

That'll get you there. And you got no car payment, and then you go into next spring finishing off your debt snowball. Hang on. We're going to put you through Financial Peace University and sign you up for every dollar for free as our guest, as a brand new listener. Thank you for calling in, Kelly. We're proud of you.

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So do yourself a favor, get rid of the distractions and dial things in. All you got to do is search Ramsey Network app in the App Store or click the link in the show notes to download the Ramsey Network app today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. My co-host today, number one bestselling author many times over,

host of the Smart Money Happy Hour, along with George Camel and my daughter, Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality. We're here to help you. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Molly is with us in Austin, Texas. Hey, Molly, how are you? Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

I just inherited about one and a half million dollars. Wow. And I'm getting married in a little over three months. And so I want to know if I should get a prenup or not. Wow. How old are you? I'm 22. Whoa. Where'd the money come from?

My grandpa was a successful businessman in like hardware stuff. And so I have like, he had about half a million dollars in stocks and then he loaned his business about a million dollars. And so I get loan repayments on that. And then he owned his business building.

And then my mother's house and just various accounts they have. Are you getting cash, $1.1 million cash? No, she's getting half a million cash and then payments on a million. And then through all the rest. Yeah, so half a million in cash, half a million in stocks, and then the rest in business notes mostly. Yeah. Okay. Before this happened, did you have any money? I was pretty good with my money and had a pretty... How much money did you have before this happened?

I had $10,000. Okay. You didn't have any money. Okay. Well, I know. It's not like you already had a half a million dollars. I know. It doesn't feel the same. There's a little difference in a half a million or a million and a half and $10,000. Okay. Now, the fiance, does he have any money? Not a ton. What's he do?

He graduated college, and his parents have a franchise called Mosquito Joe that he was going to take over. But he has, like, he's done some work to start it up, but I'm just a little concerned that the inheritance has made him less, or it's created less pressure for him to work. That's a different question than do I need a prenup, okay? That is you need pre-marriage counseling.

Okay. When is the wedding scheduled? November, or no, sorry. Yeah, no, November 20th. I'm sorry, November what? Oh, November 20th of this year. November 20th. So two or three months. Have you all been through pre-marriage counseling yet? We did one group thing, but not like individual. You need to do some intensive marriage counseling where you say to him what you said to us. Okay. That's very important.

Okay, because here's the problem. Money does not cause people to have problems. It exposes problems that they have. It magnifies the good and the bad in you and in him. And what you're saying is, is this has magnified a lack of work ethic or something along those lines, a lack of motivation or whatever we want to call it. And this seems to have made it worse. It feels like to you.

Yeah. Okay. Did he know that you were going to be getting this money? Was this a conversation or was it a little bit out of the blue for both of you? Well, so we had been together about like five years and then my dad passed away. So that's how I inherited it. I mean, yeah. Oh, I'm sorry, Molly. Wow.

Yeah, you've been through a lot, kiddo. All right, so the point is this. Yes, I do want you to get a prenup, and I'll come back in a minute and explain why. I don't believe in prenups very often, but occasionally I do. What I don't want you to do is to think your prenup is going to fix your fiancé. It doesn't. It just helps you escape him if it goes completely bad.

Okay, so you've got to go in and have real clear relational goals with him, and that's 90% of solving the problem you called about. 10% is the prenup piece of paper. If you've got to fix a future spouse with a prenup, you shouldn't get married is my point because the prenup won't fix them. It's like doing a contract with a crook.

contracts don't make crooks suddenly honest. They're still going to find a way to crook you. Yeah. Okay. Contracts are not magical documents. They don't suddenly give people character.

and prenups are not magical documents they don't suddenly solve relationship issues that have been exposed by this newfound money so i want you really really really lean into that and a good friend of mine asked me this morning he said his daughter's getting ready to get engaged and he wanted advice on what to tell the young man talking to him about his hand in marriage to his daughter i said fpu and pre-marriage counseling you have a

Pre-marriage counseling alone will set you up detailed in-depth. Rachel and Winston did it. Denise and Bill did it. Daniel and Allison did it. And, I mean, these poor people are married into the Ramsey family. They need counseling. So, right? Deal with the family of origin that looks like this one. Oh, my God. And so, yeah, you got to do it, Molly. That's the thing. Now, the reason I would tell you yes on a prenup,

is not because of what you're concerned about with him. It's because anytime there's a great disparity, like a huge pile of money like you've got versus no money like he's got, it brings out weirdness in the extended family. Like his mother leans over and says, well, honey, you don't have to work so hard, you know.

It brings out weirdness in the extended family. And there's always crazy in every family, folks. And if you think there's not crazy in your family, that means it's you. So you've got to know that this million and a half, it's going to warp your relationship with them. And one of the things a prenup does is it helps him not be susceptible to the other family influences that are weirded out by this money.

Okay? Okay. It doesn't fix him, but it gives you guys some tools to say, look, this money's just not accessible for that. It's not accessible for Mosquito Joe. Sorry, we're not doing it. By the way, Mosquito Joe's a great little franchise. We're actually a customer. Yeah. Yeah. And Molly and you guys... We're talking about the great financial prospect. Yeah, and you guys, I mean, y'all have been together, what, since 16 years old? 17? Mm-hmm. Yes, ma'am. Yeah, so I mean, and again, not that...

you can't marry your high school sweetheart by any means. But I, I mean, I do, I do think a good counseling or therapy, honestly, before you walk into this is going to be huge because there's habits or routines or, um, just this kind of like way you guys have been doing life since you're 17. Yeah. That having a professional sit down and kind of just,

up the dynamic a little bit. Change the high school romance into a marriage. Which is good, yeah. I'm like, because it's a totally different ballgame. And you're kind of feeling that now all of a sudden when you're out on your own and here's your soon-to-be husband thinking, oh my gosh, is he going to carry his weight? And all of that needs to be exposed and fleshed out beforehand. So you're not crazy, Molly? Yes. This is a flag. Because the disparity is so wide, I would get a prenup. Otherwise, I would not, folks.

and don't think the prenup's going to fix the relationship. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruz, here to tell you about a faith-based alternative to health insurance that can make healthcare more affordable, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM allows members to share each other's healthcare costs

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Find out more at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. If you guys want to help us out, we would appreciate it. We need your help. And a bunch of you have been helping us out. We know that because the numbers around here are way up.

Thank you.

and I had a good friend recommend a good book this week, and I picked it up immediately. I'll be reading it soon. And so that's how I get my best books is through people who know what they're doing sending me an idea. There we go. So check it out. And also, of course, the five-star reviews make a big difference. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Donnie is in Charleston, West Virginia. Hey, Donnie, what's up?

Hey, Dave. It's good talking to you. You too. How can I help? So me and my wife are kind of young and dumb. We've done stupid with a lot of zeros, as you'd say, one of the listeners to the show. So basically to get right to the point, we're just kind of wondering if we have an income problem or a budget problem. Okay. What do you think it is? I think it's a budget problem, and she thinks it's an income problem. She's looking into a new job. What's your income? Yeah.

We make 110,000 years a household. What does she make? She makes 60. Okay. And she thinks she can make more? Yes. She's a travel CNA, and she's looking into taking a contract in Pennsylvania. You're in Charleston. I'm sorry, you would move to Pennsylvania? She would just go to stay there during the duration of the contract. How long is the contract? It's...

built in for about 16 weeks but it's indefinite so it could be as long as she wants it to be okay um and how much would she make instead of 60 she would make what um so she's making about 27 an hour now she'd go up to 35 okay do you guys have debt are y'all are y'all trying to get out of debt or are you just trying to yes okay how much debt do you guys have

We are just shy of $94,000. On what? Credit cards, personal loans, and car notes. What do you owe on the cars? $75,456. And break that down. Which car is which?

So she has a 2024 Ford Bronco. She owes about $44,000 on it. And she also has a 2018 Ford Fusion, which she owes a little under $16,000 on. And I have a 2010 Chevy Silverado, and I owe about $15,000 on it. Why do we have three cars?

A very dumb mistake. Okay. There's not three people there, right? How long have you been married? Since May. Okay. So, Donnie, here's the thing. I tried for years to out-earn my stupidity, and it always would catch me from behind and tackle me.

So before I let my brand new wife be gone from me for 16 weeks to make a few dollars more, I would sell the crap out of every car sitting in your driveway and get you two $2,000 hoopties and have a wonderful first year of marriage. Okay. You need to amputate the Bronco, buddy.

You ain't going to do it, though, are you? Well, it's hers. I don't care. It's not hers. It's ours. We just got married. I agree, but in her mind, it's probably hers, and he's going to have to convince her. Yeah, you've got to convince her. Donnie, does she want to do this, too? Meaning like this plan, does she want to get out of debt? Because part of the sacrifice of...

going and moving away for four months there's obviously something there but hers is the income problem is what you're saying or what she thinks she's trying to out earn yeah the bronco yeah and the bronco is going to run her over yeah i mean if you guys yeah i mean just looking at the simple math really fast i'm like you can almost cut this in half by selling two of the cars hello ding ding ding ding sixth grade buddy you can go down to fifty four thousand dollars your brand new newlywed wife wants to trade four months time with her husband for her bronco bad trade

Okay. So how would you guys recommend going about the negative equity? That's a big problem we've got with all three vehicles. I would borrow the difference. Okay. It still is going to be a whole lot less debt than you have. Yeah. But you guys are car poor is your problem. You've got $90,000 in debt, 75 of it's cars.

Yes, sir. Yeah. You've got a car problem. Which, honestly, Donnie, on the joyful flip side of it, this is amazing because you can actually do something about it. Some people call us and they have $100,000 in student loan debt. That, you've got to just grind it out. Yeah, you can't sell the student. Yeah, this you can actually make a big dent really quickly. This is the best case scenario. The best case scenario, right? You can actually do something drastic and

And what a gift. See it as a gift of like, oh my gosh, we can actually make really big strides. It's going to take some, you know, making some changes, but it's a car. You guys can get that later. When I was a new husband, I was a stupid husband. So let me tell you how not to do this because I've done it. Honey, I talked to these guys. We're going to sell your car. That's not how you do it. Okay. Okay.

The way you do it is I love you so much. I want to spend time with you. I do not want you to be away from me. And I feel like we're trading all that time away just to keep a Bronco. That Bronco doesn't mean anywhere near as much to me as you do much better sales technique. Okay.

Yes, sir. And you guys, Donnie, lay this out. Seriously, together tonight, sit down and you guys do a timeline and just look at run numbers, get a sheet of paper on a pen and a calculator and just sit there and just do a run a bunch of numbers, a bunch of timelines and like actually get a plan in place. Have you guys even think about selling the car? I'm just curious.

We have. I actually had a second car myself. Just from listening to your guys' show, I recently went out and got a personal one for the negative equity on it, got rid of it as well. Good. Great. Great. Perfect. Yep. So you called up and said, do we have a budgeting problem or an income problem? The answer is neither. You have a car problem. Okay.

Thanks for calling, man. I hope that helps you. I hope you go do this stuff because otherwise you're going to struggle for an extra five years more than you needed to. If you dumped every car in your life, got you a couple of hoopties, you can be completely debt-free in a year. A year. With $110,000. Income. And you're brand new married and you spent the whole year together instead of apart. Yeah. Really hard to be apart right after you're married. Yes. Very difficult.

Good call, man. Thank you for your question. Open phones at 888-825-5225. There are folks who are forced to be a part. Like we have a good friend whose daughter got married to a Green Beret. And three months later, he was gone for nine months.

So of their first year of marriage, he was gone the last nine months of the first year doing things that he can't talk about in places he can't talk about. And so because that's what people like Green Berets do. And that's what keeps you people free out there. So thank you. We salute you. But wow, I mean, it's a brand new married couple.

And oh my gosh. - That has options. And I think that's the other thing. It's kind of like been the theme I feel like of the show is when you have options, that's a gift. Take the options.

sell the car that's an option right when you're a military family you don't have the option you don't have the option that's your job she knew what she was signing up for she can she can still be a nurse she's an option to still be a nurse where you guys are in west virginia and sell the car and you guys can move forward on the on the progress so that that's such a gift it's a gift when there's options right if you don't have the option you know if it's just student loans there's no option to sell anything you know to sell to sell an item you got to pay off the debt right so um

See it as a gift, Donnie, for sure. And you guys, you can make such quick strides and you're still so young in your marriage. Like, do it. Do it. You have plenty of life to go get a Bronco again. I can promise you, I've been married 43 years and the cars that we were driving when we got married are completely irrelevant in our life today. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Andrea is in Pensacola. Hi, Andrea. How are you? I am doing amazing. How are you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? All right. So I work in food service. I work a $14 an hour job, and I have made $60,000 by working a crap ton of overtime in 2023. Okay.

I have been looking forward to going on vacation because my grandmother's turning 90. So the 401k, I have $65,000 in a 401k. I have $24,000 in my Roth IRA and I had $10,000 in Yotta Bank.

I had a $4,000 in regions. Um, that was my emergency funds, but we had a storm here and we needed the new roof, uh, which I was able to pay, uh, completely. And the car had bought a nail in the tire. And so we had to replace it higher. So the checking accounts down to $400. And my grandmother's birthday is next week. And I, uh,

Should I go ahead and take some of the money out of retirement accounts because Yarnoak is currently frozen and I've been working really hard for this vacation, but I don't have any money in my checking account. It's all in retirement. Where is the birthday? The birthday is in Colorado, so I'd have to go from Pensacola to Colorado. It's a very long drive.

And then once you get there, do you have people to stay with, or what does it look like for that? I'd have to stay with my aunt, but they wanted to go to a... You there? Did we lose you? I think we lost you. Oh, no. Let's see if we can get you back. Rachel's in Atlanta. Hi, Rachel. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi, how can we help? Well, I just need to ask a question and it may seem obvious to you. It's just not completely obvious to me. I I'm 66 years old and my financial advisor has said that I should wait till 70 to take my social security. But I'd like to take it now. We do have quite, quite a bit of assets left.

but I would just like to have more money now to spend as I'd like to rather than waiting until I'm 70. Okay. Financial advisors are there to teach you, not to tell you what to do. They should have the heart of a teacher. And so the first thing I want you to do is to go back to your financial advisor and say, why are you telling me this? Okay.

Did you understand why he said it or she said it? Well, he basically said, you know, if you wait until you're, I think that's about $1,700 a month now if I take it. But if I wait until I'm 70, it'll be a little over $2,000. And he just said, you know, everything goes up and the more money you can get, the better. Well, that's not necessarily true. Okay. In order to do that formula, we have to know when you're going to die.

Right. We don't. Okay. No. And so basically we're trading $300 a month for the rest of your life, whatever that is, for $1,700 times 3,600, times 36 months. Okay. And so we're talking about $18,000. We're talking about $50,000. Okay.

Okay. So the $50,000 extra that you get during the three years of not waiting, were you to invest that would provide you with more than the $300 of income that it's going to increase. So he's wrong.

Okay. So hypothetically, let's say you weren't going to spend it. It sounded like you want to spend it, which I'm okay with that, okay? But mathematically, if we want to measure out which way is the best way, if you get $1,700 now times 36, okay? Mm-hmm.

That's going to be almost $50,000, all right? It probably is $50,000, but it's right around there, okay? And so if you make 10% on $50,000, that's $5,000 a year. That's a little over $400 a month, and you've got the $50,000 in your hand.

So if you didn't spend the $1,700 and put it all into an investment to offset the fact that you are not going to get $300, instead you're going to get $400 and you have $50,000 in the bank. You see what I'm talking about? Yes, sir, I do. Yeah, so you take it now. He's wrong. Okay.

Even if you're going to spend it. And even if you want to spend it, enjoy it. Because to your point, I mean, in the later years of life, right, health, everything, I mean, things start to, it can go down. Yeah. And so while you're feeling great and want to enjoy life, do it. You know, I probably need to sign up. I'm 63. Because here's the thing. Social security, it is absolutely sucks beyond belief.

The amount of money I'm going to get out versus the amount of money I have put in in my life, I have a negative rate of return. I have lost money. It's a tax. And so I'm taxed even more. If I don't take it all as much out as I can before I die, I've lost all of it. Because what you get after you die, it's called zero. And so, yeah, I'm taking this now.

especially with the numbers you gave me. Look at you, taking social security. Well, I hadn't even thought about it. I know, getting up there in age, Dave. There we go. Getting up there in age. Take what you deserve. Well, I mean, I don't know if I'll do it at 63, but I probably do need to actually look at the calculation. I haven't bothered. It's not a life-changing event for me, but the point being, it's just that...

Get as much as you can get of it back before you die because you've gotten screwed by them with this whole system. It's called socialized retirement. I think we have Andrea back, too. Oh, good. All right. Let's go back to Andrea. Okay. Andrea's trying to get to her 95-year-old grandmother. 90th. She's going to stay at her aunt's, and she's going to drive from Pensacola to Colorado. She needs the money to do that without taking it out of her retirement account. Okay. Number one thing, we don't analyze some- Are you there, Andrea? Yeah.

Are you with me, Andrea? Yes, I am. Perfect. Number one thing is we don't analyze this whole thing based on a pity party of how hard you've worked. I'm sorry you worked. You're like an adult and stuff. That's what you had to do.

Okay. I've worked really hard and I deserve it. Sorry, you don't get to do stupid stuff because of that. And cashing out your retirement stuff is bad for you. I'll throw the pity party at you, Angela. It's okay. It's bad for you. I want you to go. I want you to go. But if we go, we're not going to do it because of those feelings. Because those feelings will cause you to do stupid stuff your whole life and get you broke. I know because I used to fall for that all the time. Now, got that out of the way. So you need how much to go over there?

I was thinking $3,000. Okay. Did you actually run a budget of what you need to go over there? You need gas. It's not $3,000 worth of gas. What else do you need? Probably food. Okay. And it's next week? Yes. And the $10,000 is frozen? What was that in the account? What was the $10,000 in again? Yotta Bank account. It was Graham Steffen was recommending it at some point. The Ibotta Bank account.

I'm sorry. It's like a savings account. Why is it frozen? Did it fail? I'm not familiar with what you're talking about. Synapse went into... Oh, crap. It's in that deal. Okay, now I know what you're talking about. So yeah, it is a bank failure, so you've got an FDIC frozen account. Oh, jeez. Okay. All right. I also do have about $3,000 in I-bonds, but they aren't a year old yet. I don't care. Go cash them. I can't get back.

That's it. Go cash them. Go cash them and go on vacation. Yeah. You can't get to the 10K. It's a failed bank. You're going to have to wait on the FDIC to do that. The other thing, if you cash out your Roth IRA, you're going to lose so much money. Oh, when you're your grandmother's age, you would call me up and choke me if I let you do it. So no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, cash out the I-bonds, kiddo. Oh, by the way, anything else you got? Put it on Facebook Marketplace. Let's have a huge garage sale at your house this week and sell everything in sight. And let's go see Granny.

I want you to go. I just don't want you to cash out your retirement to do it, and I don't want you to use your feelings to make your decisions with. Use math and logic and wisdom and grown-up emotions. It's a valid thing to want to go. I want you to go, but I want you to do it smart. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, small business owner, does it feel like there's never enough time in the week? If you're sick and tired of barely keeping your head above water or never having enough time to work on the important stuff, then you need the Entree Leadership System, the blueprint for building a self-sufficient business so you can spend less time running your business and more time growing it. Go to ramsaysolutions.com slash more time and download our free getting started guide today.

Today, Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. James, do you have the numbers on what that thing, this video did on social? I don't know them off. It was millions of millions, but I don't want to super exaggerate. It might've been 10 million. Not off the top of my head, but I can go look. Okay. If you get it, that'd be great. So

Our social media team goes back through the archives of this show and they found a talk, our call I took, uh, gosh, it had to be before 2019 cause it was in the old studios. We've been in this building since 2019. Um, and I could tell by the background obviously in the, in the video and they posted a clip of it. And sometimes we are around here are a little bit caught off guard by, uh,

We may post 10 clips. One of them will have a million views and one of them will have 40 million views or something. And so on Instagram, I've got about 5 million people on Instagram or something like that. And so you find it.

5.8 million on Instagram. We're looking at 5.8 million. This thing viewed on Instagram when they posted it, which we don't understand sometimes why these, why some of them take off and you guys are so responsive to some of them and other ones just that we think are really cool. Don't take off. Anyway, this thing blew up, so we're going to play it and then Rachel's going to tell us why it blew up. No, I'm kidding. I was like, I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it. All right. Watch careful then. Here we go.

I have 35 credit cards. Okay. Are you ready to endure some pain to get rid of this mess? It's going to leave us with hardly anything. Are you ready to endure some pain to get rid of this mess? Yes, I am. What about your husband? Oh, yes. Yes, he is. Okay. And the two of you need to sit down together, go on everydollar.com, and do your budget tonight. Okay.

Okay. You can download it to your iPhone or your Android or your desktop. It's free. A check comes in, all the money goes out, and then you're broke and you can't figure out how to go to the grocery store. Yes, exactly. You're not living by any kind of plan. This money is owning you. You don't own it. And you've got to get the other side of it, and the budget helps you do that. You're telling your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. Okay. And then you and your husband are in agreement. We're going to sacrifice deeply because I am so sick of living like this. And when you get sick and tired of sick and tired, you're ready to change your life, kiddo.

Yes. You can do it. And you call me back if you need help, okay? Okay. Thank you, Dave. It sounds like a call I've done 5,000 times. Well, did you say 35? Maybe that was it, though. 35 credit cards? Yeah, but I mean... It's a lot. But yeah, it's a... George Costanza wallet, right? I mean, you know.

I don't know what that means. On Seinfeld, George had a wallet that was six inches thick. Seinfeld. Seinfeld. Okay. In a whole different way. Okay. I know. I'm friends. Another generation. I'm friends versus Seinfeld. Sorry. But no, I mean. You don't know either. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know why 10 million people want to see that. It's probably $35,000. And everything you said in there, though, is all true. You want to be the one controlling your money, not your money controlling you. You actually want to be able to have a say. You're exhausted of how you've been living. I mean, it is all of that pent-up tension when it comes to feeling...

lost and hopeless with money right i mean it's yeah it's the exact pain points so many people feel so you reach the point of being sick and tired being sick and tired and les brown the great motivator i've said it a thousand times always said you finally say that's it i've had it that's what i was asking her challenge are you ready yep because you've got because change is painful

Doing something you've never done before is scary. Yep. It's frustrating. It's painful. But you're going to keep getting what you've been getting unless you change the mix.

If you keep making a cake and it's strawberry and you want chocolate, you should change the recipe. You know, you're going to be surprised. It's chocolate again. Who knew? Well, of course, it's the same stupid cake. You made the same stupid recipe. So you keep doing that in your life. It's the same thing. And so if I keep eating what I've been eating, my body's going to continue to look exactly like this. Well, on any level of growth, and I'm thinking, you know, relationally, financially, physically, like any of that. I mean, all of it.

There is a level of change that is so uncomfortable, but you have to be uncomfortable to grow. If you keep staying where you, you know what I mean? How you've been, you're going to, there's no pain involved because there's no friction. It's just,

You're just doing the same thing over and over again, right? So when you are changing, it's going to be uncomfortable and there's going to be some pain, but that means you're growing. You're growing in an area of your life and you're not stagnant. It's not change. The pain is not for nothing. It's transformation. Yep. It's the strain of the caterpillar pushing out of the cocoon allows it to become a butterfly. It's transformation. It's not accidental.

And so you can count on you becoming the next awesome version of you hurting. It's going to be painful at times. Um, you know, no discipline seems pleasant at the time. The Bible says no discipline seems pleasant at the time, but ding, ding, ding, but it yields a harvest of righteousness. So no, you know, no time, uh,

you know, you and Winston got the whole family doing cold plunges. At no point in doing a cold plunge is this fun. My children are done. Yeah, we put the little babies in there too. No, God, no, no, no, no, no. I'm kidding. No, but I mean, you got, at no point is this fun. Yeah. But the result is inflammation's down, all these other things, and, you know, the result is it's, you know. It's good for you, yeah. You pay a price to get better, and that price is the pain of,

And until you have enough pain where you are today, you will not walk towards the pain of change. The pain of today can be just simply disgusted with myself, or it could be I'm about to get foreclosed on.

I mean, the pain of today can be a lot of different kinds of pain, but you can manifest pain today. You can just get sick and tired of being sick and tired. That's right. It's a disgust, right? And then you go, okay, 35 credit cards. I'm broke. I look like I'm in Congress. I'm not living like this anymore.

And then giving her a tool, every dollar. I think people are, they're needing something to help them in this world of money. They're needing a tool. They're needing something to assist them because it is, it's hard to do it on your own, right? I mean, I have a trainer to help, you know, with working out. You have, you have,

areas of your life that you get advice from and you have experts to help you. And now in the world of technology, you're able to, in a great way, you know, have an app on your phone that is guiding you. Just as Winston and I, we sat down two nights ago and did our August budget on EveryDollar. So I'm like, to have something assist you in it is such a gift, you guys. So the EveryDollar budget, it's that. If you go to EveryDollar.com and create your first budget for free, you're

and start actually doing this, that's a gift in and of itself of having a tool come alongside you as well. Yeah, but then you have to do it. You have to stick to what you wrote down. And if you wrote down something that's different than the way you used to live, and it says, okay, we're not going to spend anything on restaurants this month, and we've been living at restaurants prior.

That's a big change. That's right. Yep. And, you know, it'll be about 30 minutes before that little devil on your shoulder says, Chick-fil-A. No, the devil would not say Chick-fil-A. That's Jesus chicken. But he might say Chipotle. Chipotle. He might say Chipotle. Yeah, I don't know. What would the devil say? But anyway, you see what I'm saying? There's going to be some kind of little thing reminding you. Taco Bell. Taco Bell. Oh, that's definitely the devil. No question that's the devil. Okay. So, oh my gosh.

So anyway, whatever it is, you go, okay, what's the temptation? You know, you used to watch those cartoons when you were a little kid with Fred Flintstone, and he would have a little devil on one shoulder, a little angel on the other shoulder, right, whispering. And what's the temptation? Somebody's going to try to drag you back to your land of stupid that you're trying to leave, even though you have a roadmap with your every dollar budget on how to leave the land of stupid.

Drive on, boy. Drive on. Get through. Get through. Get through. Push through. Get through. The old country song, if you're going through hell, keep going. You know, keep going. There's nothing on the other side. Deloney talks about that. If you're going through a hard time, the fastest way through a hard time is straight into it. Yep. Not trying to back up, not trying to run around it, not trying to avoid it. Run right straight through it. And that's true of change. That's true of change.

That's true of transformation. And that's why we teach you that snowball because you get out of debt fast. We want you to lean in with intensity. And this is why the every dollar system works. So I guess that's what that was. I don't know. I don't know.

It is a bit of a mystery to me. I was waiting for something so profound. I'm just kidding. Yeah, really. It's a bit of a mystery to me that the things I've said like 80,000 times occasionally go viral and other times they're just flat as a board. And it could be the 35 credit cards. That might have been it. It was a good opener. It was a good teaser, yeah. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth,

do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Carrie May is with us in Minneapolis. Hi, Carrie May. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm good. Good. What's up?

Well, about a month and a half ago, my house was hit by a tornado. Oh my Lord. Me and my three kids were home. It was horrifying. And when we went to make the claim, we called the insurance and we were informed that our insurance had been dropped a few months ago.

And so we have no insurance. How long have you been in the house? We moved in in February. This is a new build. We moved in February of this year. And you put permanent, because usually when you do a new build, you have builder's risk insurance, which is different than homeowners. When you move in, you put a new homeowners policy on it. Did you do that? So we had the builder's insurance, but

That started in July of last year, and it was supposed to go through July of this year. It doesn't go through once you move in. Correct. So what we found out was that they had dropped our insurance during the building, not even when it was completed, but during the building.

And the bank never got informed of this. When we went to sign the mortgage, the bank never verified that we were switching from the construction loan to a permanent homeowner's insurance. But you didn't do that either. You didn't know you were supposed to switch from a builder's risk to a homeowner's? No. Okay. Did you have a builder or a realtor or anybody involved in this?

Um, we had, uh, well, it's a manufactured home, so it was a company that built the house offsite and put it on the foundation, but they were doing the contracting. Um, we went through a title company and we went through the bank and yeah, they, they couldn't believe it when we called them and they were like, they did not know how it happened, how it happened that we did not have insurance.

Okay. How much do you owe on this house and how much is left of it? The house needs to be taken down to the foundation. There's $277,000 on the mortgage. And then what the bank did do, because they did realize what a mess-up they had on their end, is they backdated forced hazard insurance.

which only covers the mortgage. But I don't know if that means it's going to cover the entire mortgage or if they're going to look at, well, there's still value in the foundation and things like that and subtract that. I'm not sure how that works. That's really good news. Okay. I am not sure how you – they may have some kind of a blanket policy for all of their loans that is force-placed.

and they have the ability to legally backdate, normally you cannot backdate insurance. Like, oh, the house burned down. Let's go buy some fire insurance. You really can't do that normally. But if they've got a blanket policy for all of their loans, it's what's called force-placed.

meaning that a bank can force insurance onto your property if you have a lien with that bank, a mortgage with that bank. It's forced placed if you haven't paid your homeowners to protect themselves only. Right. And that's what this is. And they generally have a blanket policy for their whole portfolio. So maybe that's how they're able to do that. The good news is the house has probably only cost you about, you didn't put a lot down on it, did you?

We put $70,000 into it. But you're going to get the lot. Yeah, it's a two and a half acre lot, and then plus we put in the septic and the well. What's the lot worth? We bought it for $36,000. Okay, all right.

I'm so sorry. What a mess. Okay, let's run two possible scenarios down. I think what's going to happen is the bank's going to pay off the mortgage. You're going to end up with a lot, and you're probably going to lose some money if you sold the lot versus what you put into it, but you're probably not going to end up owing $270,000, which is really, really good news. Agreed? Right. So I'm sorry you've been through this. Is everybody okay? Yes. Okay. Where are you guys living now?

We were living with my parents an hour away. What's your household income? $75,000. Okay. And nobody was harmed? Nobody was harmed. Praise God. That's important. That's so scary. Okay. Yeah. So what would I do if I were in your shoes, if I went through all of that, is I would sell the lot. Okay. Put the $40,000 or $50,000 that you can get out of the lot, whatever it is, in my pocket, and I'm going to start the whole thing.

idea of homeownership over again and go, I lost 20 grand and nobody got hurt. And that's where we are. Okay. That's not bad. That's really not bad. That's not, that's better than we started the call with. Okay. And that's probably what you're, I'm going to give you a 90% probability. That's what's going to occur. And by the way, I'm also going to tell you, don't do manufactured housing again. Yep. Okay. So the good news is you got out of manufactured housing because it goes down in value. It does not go up.

And so this time we're going to buy a stick-built, normal-built home or build a stick-built, normal-built home, one of the two, with $50,000 down. Now we don't have $70,000 to put down because we lost money on this overall transaction. I think that's what's going to happen. Scenario number two, pull all of this together, including copies of...

the policies, the insurance policies, that if you haven't got them, call the insurance company and tell them to send them to you. If they don't send them to you, your attorney's going to make them send them under discovery, okay? Because most states have a requirement of 30 days of written notice before they cancel insurance coverage.

The bank claims it didn't get written coverage. You claim you didn't get written coverage. They're going to have to prove they gave written coverage or written notice of the coverage being canceled. So I should say that after the fact, I did realize that we had a letter that said that. Oh, you're screwed. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So what that means is you're not very organized and you don't keep your mail opened and your bills paid. Right.

Okay. Right. That exercise cost you 20 grand, so change that habit, okay? Yeah. Yeah. So they did give you proper notice. So they're not at fault then. Okay. All right. Because I'm guessing that Minnesota requires the same as most states, which is a 30-day notice. Tennessee does, I know, and most others. So, yep, you're going to sell a lot.

Hey, good folks, Dr. John Deloney here. Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So guess what?

Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions.com slash careers. That's ramseysolutions.com slash careers.

Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, my daughter, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Well, the Live Like No One Else cruise on Holland America in March, going to Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, the Bahamas, with all the Ramsey personalities, plus Stephen Curtis Chapman, Manit Shohan, and others, is almost sold out.

Now, almost means not quite. So you can still get a cabin. And the ultimate debt-free celebration, this vacation is for those of you who are on Baby Step 4 and beyond. And we're going to have, as I said, Stephen Curtis. So Rachel, Stephen was over at the house Monday night. And, you know, he's a Grammy Award winner, 67 doves, major, major deal. Yeah.

Last week he got inducted into the Grand Ole Opry. Oh, that's great. And he was tearful. Talking about it. Ricky Skaggs, our buddy Ricky, did the induction, surprised him. And he had actually done an appearance on the Grand Ole Opry when he worked at Opryland when he was 19. Oh, yes. Stephen's not 19 anymore. So, yeah, pretty cool. Opryland, those were the days.

Pretty cool. So he's going to be with us on the cruise. All of us, all the Ramsey personalities, will be doing events and talks and other things. Monique will do a cooking demonstration. She's off the Food Channel and all this stuff. It's going to be pretty stinking cool. You can put a $600 deposit down before all the cabins are gone. You should do that.

before all the cabins are gone because it's almost sold out. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash cruise. We'll be cruising March 22nd through the 29th. And this is a high-end, nice cruise. This is Holland, America. This is not Walmart on the seas. This is a pretty nice deal, okay? So check it out, and you're going to love it. Not that I hate Walmart, but Walmart on the seas is unappealing. All right, now Melissa is in Philadelphia. Hi, Melissa. How are you?

I'm doing, how are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Okay. Um, it's a little complicated. Um, my, uh, sorry, I'm at a crossroads and I feel very stuck and I'm, um, uh, sorry, I'm a little nervous. Um,

I'm a single mother of a beautiful daughter. She's about to turn 15 in October. And I left her father eight years ago, my husband of 25 years. We had our late move to that miracle. And I've been on my own with her. We share custody. That's a different story. But I've been trying so hard to make it because he was always the breadwinner and

I don't know at this point if I should go back to school, but my age, I feel like I'm running out of time. How old are you? I'm 56. Oh, you're out of time. That's for sure. Stop. Unbelievable. I need to start a whole career, like, you know, 23 years. Yes, I hear you. You ever hear of the Sistine Chapel, the famous painting of the Sistine Chapel painted by Leonardo da Vinci?

You ever heard of that? I haven't heard of it. I heard of him, but not of that. There's a famous painting on the Sistine Chapel. It's on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, 44 feet off the ground. You've probably seen it. It's right, God and Adam, they're touching fingers, right? Two guys touching fingers, yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's it. It was painted by Leonardo da Vinci laying on his back on scaffolding. He was 77 years old. Wow. Colonel Sanders never fried any chicken until he was 72. Wow.

multi-millionaires all over the world with Kentucky Fried Chicken because of him. You're not done, kiddo, as long as you're breathing. I have nothing. I really do. I'm not saying nothing, but one good thing, I'm under $5,000 in debt that I owe. So your daughter is 15. How long have you been gone from the husband? Eight years, 2016. Okay, and you've been surviving since then as a scrappy she-bear.

It's been hard. You're a warrior princess. You are tough as nails. I don't feel that way, honestly. I really don't. Well, I guarantee you, you freaking survived. You got no debt. And you raised a 15-year-old. My God, these are mammoth tasks. Seriously. I'm trying. Seriously, you're tired.

I don't blame you for that. You have a level of emotional fatigue, and you've never completely regained all of your confidence yet, but you are a pretty amazing lady. Now, what is it you want to be when you grow up, Melissa?

Okay, so back in my 20s, I started college. My goal then was to become a CPA. Good. And I did go to college for, it was under two years, and I dropped out. Life happened. My grandfather passed. I'm not making excuses. My one friend told me, warned me back then, don't do it because you won't come back, and she was right. That's all behind us. Is that what you want to do?

I do. I've done bookkeeping throughout the years. That's what you want to do? So what do we need to do? Let's go do it. What do you got to get? I don't know. Got to get a two-year degree and then go get your CPA? Should I go back to college and go into that debt? You're not going into debt. We're just going to go get a community college and get a two-year degree in accounting and pass your CPA. It takes more than two years, doesn't it, for CPA? Or is that just a test? Oh, you just passed a test. You're an adult. You're not a 21-year-old.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, check in Pennsylvania what you've got to do. Start talking to the community colleges. And what I want you to do is gather up a bunch of online options and a bunch of community college options. They're very inexpensive. And go take whatever you need to take and then take the test and go be your next self. You're awesome. Thank you. And none of this is going to cost a lot of money.

Well, I'm looking at – my other dilemma was online there's a lot of things popping up, be a bookkeeper, make your own business without college, and I click on certain links, and some of them are, in my opinion, scams. Yeah, most of that's a bunch of crap, and most of that's get-rich-quick crap. You know that. Yeah, and that's not what I want. Why don't you go talk to five or six different people that own accounting firms and ask them if they need some help

and what of your education they would pay if you went to work for them. Okay. And let's go ahead and just get started. It's not really around here where I'm at, but I could definitely look into that. Look anywhere. It doesn't matter. Wherever you want to be. You're right.

The new you can live wherever you want to live. You're Melissa. I don't know. You know what's funny? My self-esteem, my whole life has not been well. It is at times because I know deep down who I am. But there's been a lot. Yeah, you've been through hell. Hey, so Dr. Deloney, our guy that's got a Ph.D. in counseling around here, he does a lot of work with trauma.

That's what I've had. Extreme trauma. And he says that one of the things you need to remember when you're in trauma or have been through trauma is that facts are your friends, not feelings. Okay. So what I've been yelling at you for the last few minutes because I'm your friend and I love you is our facts. I've been telling you the facts that I've already discovered in a short conversation about Melissa.

Wow. Those weren't feelings. I don't have any feelings. I don't know you. Okay. I'm just observing who I'm talking to and feeding it back to you.

So facts are your friends. And that'll also be true when you go talk to some accounting firms and you do some, you talk to like Liberty University about their online programs. They've got the largest online program in the world. You ought to go check them out. You go talk to the local community colleges. They're very inexpensive to go to, maybe even free. I would say some states they're free. Yeah, some states are completely free. And go gather up a bunch of facts. Yeah, and Melissa, hold on the line because Christian will pick up. We'll give you Ken Coleman's assessment. Okay.

and his book just to kind of, you know, get some, again, facts on paper about who Melissa is. And then Christian throw in John's books as well, building a non-anxious life. And yeah,

Building a non-anxious life will do it. No, I know, but... Own your past change of... Own your past change of... Sorry, John. That's better for her situation. Own your past, change your future. But that's all good. Those are all good tools. Give them both of those and give her the... Get clear assessment. The get clear assessment and find the work you're wired to do book. And all of that will help. Yeah, all of that. Because that's what you need to do. Sit down and make some lists, a list of actually...

What is going on Not what the feelings are About what's going on Because you've been in just Freaking survival mode For so long You haven't looked up And realized exactly Where you are And Melissa Go talk to those people Like Dave said Because you may find too Gosh there's a position Over here That I may not need As much over You know The degrees And this is a great fit And pays great And I can just kind of Plug in here You never know So talking to people And who you know Is so key too Yep Go get them girl Go get them

You're a warrior princess. This is The Ramsey Show.

Are you planning to sail with us on the Live Like No One Else cruise? Then you better book your cabin before they're sold out. If you're on Baby Step 4 and above, come aboard March 22nd through the 29th of 2025 as we set sail for Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, San Juan, and the Bahamas. Join me, the Ramsey personalities, and a ton of special guests for the ultimate debt-free celebration. Book your cabin because they are going fast. Head to ramseysolutions.com slash cruise today.

Today, Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. My daughter is my co-host today. Why, David is with us in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hi, David. How are you? How are you, Don? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay, so my question is, so just a back story. About a year ago, my wife's grandfather had passed away. So we had moved down with grandmother just to keep her in good spirit. So recently it was brought to my attention that when full circle happens and she passes away, the house will be given to us. Now, one thing I don't want to wait around on is that. So my question is, do I follow the baby steps and still save up for a house in my

purchased a house, or since this house is being inherited to us, do we stay here? I think there might be some other reasons to stay there, but I wouldn't stay somewhere because of a house. Correct, correct. I would live where I'm supposed to live my best life and what is good for you and your wife. And if you're there temporarily to care for a family member, that's nice and noble, but that does not mean that you are

directed by God to spend the rest of your life in that particular location. So you just got to decide that, right? And so the two of you need to say, okay, 10 years from today, where do we see ourselves living? You have any idea of the answer to that question? I don't. Okay. Do you think it's there? No, I really don't. Okay. Then inheriting that house is irrelevant. Okay. Because when you inherit it, you're going to sell it. Yes. And that's also one thing I did talk to my wife a lot. I'm like,

The emotional aspect, are we just going to sell the house anyway? If that's the case, then we can just look for a house. You can look for a house anyway because you're not going to stay there. Now, are you going to stay there until she passes to take care of her?

Um, most likely that would be the plan. I know she said that, um, she wants to, she wants to, she's going to be retiring soon, but also when she gets to a point to where like she can't take care of herself, she's saving a lot of money just to like do the nursing home route. We're talking about grandmother. Yes. Grandmother is still working. What does, how old is grandmother? Uh, she retires next year. She's 64. I want to say, Oh, good Lord.

Yes, that's the biggest thing. Hey, I'm 63. If you're waiting on me to die, it's going to be 30 years, okay? 100%. You don't need to be taking care of me. I'm 63. You guys need to go live your life. A 64-year-old does not need to be cared for unless they've got an illness. Yes, understandable. You don't need to hang around and wait on her to get old. No. I think y'all need to really start thinking about where you're at. How long have you guys been married? Huh?

um we actually been married a year okay ah okay all right yeah uh yeah you went there to help take care of grandpa when he was sick that was sweet it's time to move back to where you're going to have your life how far away are you guys from them um we were living about 45 minutes away and i'm actually still commuting up there to work yeah you need to move up there and start talking about saving up money get out of debt build your emergency fund buy a house there brother

that that's um and then in 20 years in her 80s if she needs help y'all can make that decision but that's i mean that's a long that's a long time yeah hello time hello yeah it took me a second when i realized grandmother was still working okay i always think of grandmother as old and yet i'm married to one what do i know okay all right here we go all right laurie is with us in atlanta georgia hey laurie what's up

Hey, thanks for taking my call, Dave. I appreciate it. Sure. How can I help? So my situation is I'm trying to get my car payment lowered. And currently I owe $23,000 on it.

and I'm not really getting a lot of breaks in terms of lowering it. And I'm just wondering if I should be paying in addition to the car payment, you know, a little bit more, or should I be thinking about trading in this car and getting an older one for less money? What do you make? About $40,000. And you owe $23,000. Yes. How much money have you got in the bank? Right now about $10,000. Okay.

What's the car worth? You know, I'm not really certain what it's worth. I honestly am not sure about that. Okay. You're trying to fix this without feeling any pain. Yeah. Exactly. And it's painful because you bought a car that's too expensive.

What we have found is mathematically cars are the largest things that we all buy that go down in value, and you don't want to own vehicles with motors and wheels totaled all up to equal more than half your annual income. You broke that rule. Okay. So you need to move down in car, and you should be in a car around $10,000 or $15,000, and it should have no payments. Okay.

Okay. Okay. So what that may mean is that we sell this car, write a check because you're probably upside down. Was that your guess too?

Yeah. Okay. And then maybe you buy a $5,000 car and start saving for another 5,000 on top of that to get a 10,000 and then start saving and put another 5,000 on top of that and get a 15,000. It may be a three year or a two year process to move back up from a $5,000 zero payments all the time car up to a 15 and get rid of this thing. Okay. It's bringing you more pain than it is joy. Right.

Yes, it is. Okay. No kidding. Yeah. And I can tell that in the math. I mean, even if you hadn't realized it, it is bringing you more pain than it is joy. So, yeah, it's very easy to hold on to something like that. And the weird thing, Rachel, too, is cars, we all tend to think they're more permanent than they are. Like a car is a big deal. You just sell a car.

yeah houses now you start selling a house that's a big deal that's hard right that's uproots everything but car i mean you just got to clean out the glove box take the license plate off it's really there's not a lot to sell in a car i mean you get it's just a stupid car there's another one right there another one right there another one right there they're everywhere so you can get and so but i have that tendency too i feel like if i'm in a car get emotionally attached or something well no i just feel like it's like

It's like a rule. I have to keep it if I bought it or something. I don't know. I did that with a truck a while back. You probably forget that truck, but I bought this truck and it was, um, it was a big old, it was a nice truck, but it rode. It was horrible. I've been driving a Raptor and it has a better ride. And, um, I drove that thing for about four months and I thought, why am I driving this car? I hate this car.

And I don't hate cars. I love cars. So this is dumb. So I just sold a stupid truck. And I thought, well, that was kind of freeing idea. I'm not, I'm not stuck with it. You know, I can just get rid of it. It's just a car, you know, it's just a car. Give me another Raptor. Life goes on, you know, it's like just a car. So yeah, that's, that's the way I, it's,

Trying to train myself and everybody else to hold these things with a little bit more of an open hand. Becky, or I think it's Becky, is with us in Los Angeles. I didn't go to the same school you went to, Christian. Hi, Becky. How are you? I'm good, thanks. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I'm on Baby Step 7. Thank you for changing my life. Is it Becky or is it Bessie?

B-E-C-K-Y, Becky. Okay. All right. I thought he spelled it wrong. Okay. How can I help? I'm sorry. That's okay. I wasn't positive. All of a sudden, they're back in the booth talking like I'm an idiot, so I couldn't figure out what's going on. Okay. All right. So how can we help you, Becky? All right. So my baby's step seven. I own my home. I have two 401ks worth just under a million dollars total. Way to go. I'm 59. I'll be actually...

I'll be 59 next week, so I'm getting closer to retirement age. I make about $200,000 a year, and I'm not eligible for a Roth IRA. So right now I'm just putting the maximum amount I can put in every year into my 401K. Does your 401K have a Roth option? No. Well, it does, but I don't think I'm eligible. Oh, you're eligible. 401Ks don't have a limit on them.

So a 401k Roth is okay? Yeah, from this point forward. I wouldn't change everything you got, the million you got in there over, but from this point forward, your contributions ought to be in a Roth. And get with a SmartVestor Pro at RamseySolutions.com. You can do a backdoor Roth even if your income exceeds the limits. I do backdoor Roths every year, and my income far exceeds the limits. So you can do all that and keep maxing stuff out. You're making a lot of money. You got a lot of money. You're a millionaire starting from nothing. You're amazing. Way to go.

Our Scripture of the Day, Philippians 3, 17, join together in following my example, brothers and sisters, and just as you have us as a model, keep your eyes on those who live as we do. That would be Paul speaking, not Dave and Rachel. Dolly Parton said, if your actions create a legacy that inspires others to dream more, learn more, do more, and become more, you are an excellent leader. Love, Dolly. Well, Ms. Dolly, you are an excellent leader.

Dream more, learn more, and do more, and become more. One of the most compassionate, kind people. Generous, inspiring. Have you ever met her? Lives in our neighborhood. No, I have not. She would be one of the two or three people on the planet on my bucket list that I've not met. I'm not a big star chaser. I'm not really impressed.

much with those folk um i mean i like like them i know a lot of them but it's not a big you like the showbiz a little bit yeah a little bit but very little but i mean but she's she's so iconic oh man dolly's the best all right todd is in indianapolis hey todd how are you good how are you dave better than i deserve how can i help

Sure. Well, thanks for taking my call. Hey, I just had a question and wanted to see about your philosophy from a 15-year mortgage perspective versus maybe going a 30-year mortgage but possibly paying it off like a 15-year mortgage type deal, whether it be making biweekly payments and then making an extra mortgage payment each quarter. Yeah.

There's a couple of numbers that bother me when I think about that concept, okay? The Federal Reserve has done a study that says when it comes to mortgages, 97.3% of the mortgages are not systematically repaid or prepaid, okay? Not systematically prepaid.

Which means if I take out a 30 and I promise to pay it like a 15, I'm claiming to be in the top 2.7% of the people out there as far as my discipline goes. I don't want to make that claim about me because I know me better than that. The second thing is I have read and discovered, there's a guy named David Bach years ago, came on the scene after I did, that wrote a book called Automatic Millionaire.

And he makes the very valid point in that book to do as many things in your life as you can that, uh, that you put on autopilot that are automatic discipline, uh,

Uh, for instance, you know, you automatically have money withdrawn going into your 401k. You automatically have money coming out of your checking account to pay your insurance. So you don't have to think about it. It's paid on time. Okay. You don't pay late fees on your utilities because of auto withdrawal. All those, anything I can do that's automatic that helps my discipline be automatic. I don't have to think about it. I don't slip up. It's not an accident. It's just there. It's done automatically.

And if I have a 15-year mortgage, we do know 100% of the time it's going to be paid off in 15 years or less. That's the second data point. The third one.

is that we find as we studied 10,167 millionaires in the largest study of millionaires ever done that the typical millionaire Todd that we run into that has one to five million dollars in net worth they're not a multi multi multi they're not got 30 million or 50 million but they're they got that first million second million third million typically in that one to three million and particularly

There's two major things that show up almost every time. One is $800,000 to $1,000,000 or something like that in their 401k. Again, automatically done. Or their Roth IRA, automatically done. The second thing we find is they have a home that is paid for that's $600,000 or $700,000 or $800,000. Those two things combined give them a net worth of $1,000,000 to $3,000,000 typically. Those two things show up all the time as a paid-for home. And then when we interviewed them,

We found two types of millionaires that we were interviewing out of these 10,000. Ones that were doing Ramsey stuff and familiar with us and ones that had never heard of us. Okay. And it was about 50-50. We tried to find a group, a large group that had never heard of us because we didn't want the research to be biased. Okay. And so the group that does not follow us typically paid off of millionaires in America, typically paid off their home in 11.7 years.

The group that did follow us pays off their home in 10.2 years. The difference doesn't matter. It wasn't enough that we went, ooh, Ramsey's way cooler. We're not. We're just right there together. We were a little bit better, the Ramsey tribe, but not a lot better. The bottom line was, though, what we could say conclusively is that millionaires pay off their homes in 12 years or less on average. Okay. So all of those reasons say don't do it. Do a 15-year.

And a 15-year fixed rate where the payment's less than a fourth of your take-home pay. Yeah, that's right. And I think what's hard too, Todd, is in today's market, right? I'm like... Oh, it stretches you. Yeah, the price of houses and all of it. And I feel like this is the one place that some people are like, oh, we'll just do a 30 and... And promise myself I'll pay it. Pay it like a 15, yes. And then you don't. And then things end up happening. And if you're not on a plan and you're not intentional with it, you know that it's not going to happen. So the systematic approach that you just get in...

easily fall into it and, and,

and it's great so yeah you have all these things come at you while you're trying to do this promise to pay yourself a 30 like a 15 prom dresses and transmissions would you say though out of that 10.2 years and 11.7 years that some of them had 30 year but because they were on a plan to pay it off early they just we don't we didn't ask yeah we did not like i'd be curious if that's a we didn't get that piece of there's a psychological we just know that they did it you're right we don't what the average was they got they did it early and so

In my case, what that means is, though, that you need to take out a 15 and do it even faster. If you can't do it on the 15, you can't do the millionaire plan. You'll get a better interest rate, too, with the 15. That's true. Like as much as a half a percent right now. It's pretty crazy. It's a big deal. Amber's in Sacramento. Hi, Amber. How are you? Doing good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, well, not doing great, actually, to be honest. My husband's been working in the mental health field for the last eight years, the last three of which he's been fully remote, which hasn't been a great transition for him. He really hates his job, to put it simply. He took the career assessment in last August and decided that he really wanted to be in law enforcement.

Um, he's been, he applied and has been working out and doing all of the testing and he's been successful. I'll even got his conditional off her letter and everything, but he was supposed to start in a week and we just heard today that he didn't pass his psych evaluation. Um,

So he will not be joining. And on top of all of that, I'm three weeks postpartum. So our whole world just got turned upside down. This is something we've been looking forward to for so long. I just don't know what to do next.

I'm so sorry, Amber. He already did two weeks of it at work because he thought he was in. What came back on the psych evaluation? Do you know the details of that? Because that's interesting. A mental health professional didn't pass the psych eval. That's right. Yeah. He passed the written test for psych, but not the person-to-person. Did they tell you what the objection was? They did not. Okay.

Okay. Is there an appeals process? Uh-huh. There is. Oh, do it. Yeah. And are there other forces around you guys? Maybe the guy doing the in-person eval had too much Red Bull. That's what, yeah, he said they were, let's just say an expletive. Yeah. Yeah, I would do it. Yeah, I would do an appeal. We'll just do an appeal. Yeah. And by the way, that particular law enforcement individual group, it's not the only place to do law enforcement. There's like one in every city. Hello?

Or two in every city. He can't apply for another year to any other agency. You can apply in a different locale. No other agency is what he's told me. That's not true. Like he's barred from applying anywhere else. That's not true. He could apply at 15 tomorrow, and they're all hiring because people are leaving law enforcement because of the way law enforcement is treated. So, yeah, it's a great time to go into law enforcement.

I'm assuming he's okay if he's okay mentally. I don't want him doing it if he's not okay mentally. But I would go through the appeals process and I would go somewhere else. Yeah, this is not the only girl on the planet. There are other pretty girls. Bad metaphor since you just had a baby, but okay. Yeah, there's lots of fish in the sea, as they say, right? Congrats to Amber on the baby. Sorry.

That puts this hour of the show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Dr. John Deloney here. Mental and emotional health challenges, broken relationships, it's all just part of life, but they don't have to define you. The Dr. John Deloney Show is here to help. It's a collar-driven podcast where you can get practical advice on dealing with anxiety, loneliness, depression, relationships,

relationship challenges, your kids, and so much more. Listen to questions from our callers, or if you're walking through a tough situation and need some help, give me a call. You were never meant to do life alone, and that's what this podcast is all about. Follow along on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app. Remember, you're worth being well.