The Borrower Is Slave to the Lender 100% of the Time
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. He's a number one best-selling author and host of The Ken Coleman Show as well. Shauna is with us. Shauna is in Chicago. Hi, Shauna. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Thank you. I appreciate you and your staff and what work you did to get to give me some direction. I appreciate it. Thank you. We'll try. How can we help?

Well, I need some help finding a job. I'm 72, married, no access to any finances. That was taken away from me four and a half years ago. Why? So I get my...

I don't know. I used to handle, it's a, he has a business out of the home. I worked for him for 27 years, no pay, no, um, putting into my social security. So, um, I was, uh, anyway, so all of a sudden, I don't know, change of life, what the heck happened, but he took my name off everything, um, deleted our, uh, life insurance policies. So I have no idea what we have, uh,

And I did. Why are you going along with that? What are my options? I'm off. I'm off. That sounds abusive to me, does it not to you? Well, for sure. From what I find out, it's financial abuse, which is illegal. And I have a call in today, kind of escalated, and I have a call into legal aid.

because obviously I have no money for an attorney. But yeah, I know he is up to his eyeballs in debt. He did this two other times, took the responsibility away from me and made such a mess.

that I cleaned it up for him two times while, yeah, he lives downstairs and I live up here. How long have you all been married? 52 years. Mm-hmm.

So, anyway, I'm looking for some side hustle, something I can do from home. I have a lot of health issues, which creates a lot of medical bills, which, you know, I'm having trouble keeping up with. I owe my daughter $2,300. She's, I don't even get money for groceries. I think the last time I went to the grocery store was a month ago. She died.

She gives me food that she feeds her family. Anyway, it's – You don't need a side hustle. You need to see a lawyer today. That's right. Well, that's – I know. And a lawyer will take your case on the idea that they're going to get money. The two of you have community property. I don't care if his name's on it, your name's on it. It's Illinois. And half of what is owned in a 52-year marriage is yours, whether it has your name on it or not.

And an attorney can explain that to this, your husband's out of control, honey. This is weird. I know. And the problem is that if I go, why I haven't gone to a lawyer is I'm afraid we're going to lose our house. He has not paid income taxes in three years. Do you think not dealing with this is going to keep that from happening? No. Of course it's going to happen anyway. The only difference is you're not going to see it coming.

I'm going to lose my house. I'm going to lose. You already have, probably. But we don't know. I mean, we don't know. You don't know. All you're worrying about is the troll that lives in the basement. I know. And you're scared of him. Yeah, I'm afraid that he's going to, I'm going to lose my house. Baby, you missed the point.

You could be 10 payments behind right now and not know it, and your knowing it doesn't keep you from losing it. The house is paid off. I took care of that back when I was here. It was. Yeah, it was paid off. Yeah, we don't know if it is now. Oh, yeah. Well, I guess you're right. Yeah, you need to find out what the flip's going on. Not knowing is not a strategy. I do a little snooping in his house. Honey, get a lawyer and hit him between the eyes. That's right.

You're being abused. Quit dancing with this. Go smack it. I still need to find a job. Okay, so let me ask you this. What did you do to clean it up before? You said you cleaned it up. That implies to me that you might have been working. Is that correct? You had some income. Never? Yes, I worked for a nonprofit, and all of my check went into the business account. I know I've been terribly stupid. Okay, so what did you do for the nonprofit?

I was an admin. What I would be looking for today. Okay, but Dave's right. Don't miss what we're saying. Your first agenda item is a lawyer, and if it's only legal aid, you get a bulldog who wants to make a name for themselves and get some media on the story. Because this guy is an absolute psycho from a Lifetime movie. That's what I think your husband is. I'm not going to mince words on that. So you need to play that up. But listen to me.

What you need to do today is you need to be looking at there are national organizations out there that have, they are remote administrative positions. Okay, so it is a executive assistant and it is remote. And if you've done it before, you can do it again. Customer service where you're on the phone, large companies, they're looking for people who are willing to get on the phone online.

all day long and answer questions. They give you a script. These are things that you can do and you can do it full time, 40 hours a week. But I would use that experience and try to become an executive assistant that is, again, remote. You don't have to leave the house. These are things you can do now to try to bring some money in. But my goodness, Dave, this is, this is what I'm afraid of is you're looking for a job to make a little money so that you don't have to deal with this. That's a very good point. But guess what? You got to deal with this.

And the sooner you decide you're not going to, you've been avoiding it for 52 years. You've been walking down this thing and you know, for four years you've been living in a completely abusive situation and you've been avoiding dealing with it. My daughter gets me some groceries so I don't have to deal with it. I'll get a job. I can get a little money so I can survive upstairs and the troll in the basement can do what he wants and I don't have to deal with it. But guess what? You're still going to have to deal with it.

This stuff has a high rate of resurrection, as our friend Les says. When you keep these things buried, they just pop back up like a dadgum zombie, and you have got to deal with this stuff. And the sooner you come to the conclusion of, I know I'm scared, and I'm afraid of what I'm going to find out,

I, the unknown, the devil that I know is sometimes much better than the unknown, but the unknown right now, it seems to be friendly to you. You prefer not to know how bad this situation is. You prefer not to go through the heavy amount of conflict that is probably in your near future, but you really don't have a choice. You're living like a homeless person, no money to buy food after 52 years of marriage. Not the honey. That's ridiculous.

So you're going to have to get an attorney. You have to deal with this starting right now. And I can't believe your daughter is standing on the sidelines watching this circus and hasn't reached and grabbed her dad by the hair and said, you straighten up, you common and feed my mother. Oh my gosh. First time I got to buy groceries for somebody that's supposed to be taken care of by somebody else. That's what I'm going to grab that somebody else. Hello. Hey, Ken.

Psycho Lifetime movie? Yeah, you know. Lifetime movies have psychos? Yeah, you know. I thought that was Hallmark. No, no, Lifetime. Hallmark is all G-rated. Lifetime gets you a PG-13. Okay.

I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I've taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills...

I'm going to eat next week. Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. Like it's just, it is, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza to get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today. The best way to make the most of your money is by creating and sticking to a monthly budget.

Every dollar makes it simple to plan spending, track expenses, and save for what matters most to you. All in an easy-to-use app that fits into your busy lifestyle. Keep a pulse on your spending and make progress on your money goals with EveryDollar. Download EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play or just go to EveryDollar.com. It'll work there too. Vincent's in New York City. Hi, Vincent. How are you?

I'm good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I just graduated undergraduate in accounting and finance in May, and I have a job lined up full-time for October. I'm now studying for the CPA, and I'm just kind of second-guessing the whole field, honestly. What's causing you to second-guess it? I did an internship last summer for a big accounting firm in the city, and although it was great, I made a lot of connections and learned a bunch about

which is the particular field I'm in. I don't know if the corporate culture is for me. I mean, I usually love working with my hands, working outside. And I was looking into getting a degree in engineering management just one year online. I have no student debt, so I was wondering if that's maybe a good idea, if I like that better.

Maybe, but before we determine that, I would take this job that's been offered to you because you're trained for it. You know you can actually do it. And I would go ahead and let's start putting some money in the bank and

and stay debt-free, and then cash flow if, if, if, if you spend some time. I'm going to give you a concept called the proximity principle. It says in order to do what I want to do, let's say it's engineering in your case, I've got to be around engineers. I've got to be in places where engineers are. That could be online groups. That could be local groups. I've got to be around engineers, and the whole purpose is

I want to verify that this is actually something that I will enjoy doing. And the way to do that is coffees, lunches, if they'll let you shadow them for half a day. That's how you assume everything that you can possibly assume about it. And I call that clarifying and verifying. And that's just going to allow you to go, okay,

I get excited. I get the juice when I watch this kind of work or I hear about it. I hear the good, I hear the bad, and I hear the ugly. And after that point, if your head and heart are aligned, that means your logic and the emotion for the actual work, then the answer is if you have to go to school for one year to get a ticket to the dance, then

Then the answer is yes. But while I'm determining this, if it were me, I would take the opportunity right in front of me because I know I can do it. And if it takes me a year, year and a half or so to make that transition, if in fact that's the right transition, that's the way I would play it if I were in your shoes. Yeah, it's very unlikely you spend four years, sit for your CPA position.

to do accounting that you absolutely detest accounting. Now, maybe you detest corporate America. Well, that doesn't mean you have to do that. That's a different issue where you do accounting. Doesn't matter. You can do accounting a lot of different places, um, or where you use the skills from an accounting degree and a CPA. Um, not unusual for a CFO to graduate into the CEO position.

role in a company, a mid-sized company or a small company. Not unusual at all for that to happen because they know how to run the financial side of the business. And so, you know, numbers people do well inside a business. And so it's not required that you sit in the basement of

um, with books stacked around you and no one knows you're there like Milton and his stapler to do audits. Okay. It's just not required. That's not that that's not the only picture that your degree sets you up for. So, uh, I would do something like Ken saying, and really lean into it and say, all right, here's the parts of accounting. I hate after really doing it with great gusto for a year.

And here's the parts of accounting I really like, because something led you here, sir. You didn't wander along doing something for the last four years that you detest. And then suddenly when you're sitting for your CPA and you actually have to go to work now,

All of a sudden you wake up and go, I've been working on things. I hate the whole time. No, you haven't. That's not true. You looked over and didn't like the place you're about to land. That's what's going on. And so dude, lean into it, go bust something, knock something over, be, be a force of nature in the marketplace. Uh, have some enthusiasm for what we're doing here. And if the place you're working at sucks, go get another place.

This is not slavery. You're allowed to move around. And it's not a permanent. Yeah. And the only thing I'd add to that, Dave, you're absolutely right, is he's got to absolutely, you can't let a feeling like a negative experience or a negative environment over an internship totally knock you off the path. Exactly. That's the issue. Check it out. Make sure this wasn't a series of emotions that made you question the wrong things. Well, and so what am I going to do? I'm going to go get another dadgum degree.

Oh, geez, you're killing me here. I know. That's just the worst thing to do. I'm going to hide from facing down these demons and figuring out what I'm going to do by running from degree to degree to degree and end up with more degrees than a thermometer and never done anything. Right. So, no, I don't want to do that. I want you to go to work.

Get out here in the marketplace, knock some stuff down, get knocked down, find out what's fun, find out what you hate, and then let that inform your next career shift. And by the way, you may not have to touch another classroom to go from CPA into simply managing engineers. That's right. One other quick call out here on this, and we don't know if this is what Vincent did, but a lot of people, Dave, could wind up in Vincent's place because they were always good at numbers.

And because they're always good at numbers, they kind of go, well, that's the direction I go. And then all of a sudden he goes that direction. This could have happened. And then he realizes when I actually get in there and see it, I realize I don't want to be number crunching. But see, that's a mistake that can be made as well. You've got to combine the talent with the work that's enjoyable. And so that same numbers brain is,

could very well do well in engineering because it's the analytic side of the numbers that he enjoyed more than the actual. Okay, help me make the distinction between this, okay? For people out there listening, Vincent aside, okay? I don't know what bucket, I don't know what verbiage to put with this. You probably have the vernacular for this, okay? So...

There are people that are really good with numbers and love to crunch the actual detail down in the weeds. I, on the other hand, I am fabulous at math. Yeah. Very good. It's a natural skill for me. And I detest going into the details. That's correct.

So I'm designed to do what I do right here on this microphone. But if you had put me in the basement with my stapler and Milton beside me, I mean, I would have gone postal, right? So let me give you that breakdown. You're not going to say that anymore, are you? I think you can. That's okay. It's one of the great scenes from a great movie. Okay, so. Not Milton, the postal.

Oh, the post. Oh, yeah, I guess you can't say that. See, I'm so unaware of all those things. Me too. I'm the worst guy to ask on what's offensive. I don't care. Me either. All right, so here's the difference. You're good with math, but if you were to take the talent of math and then take a work like analysis...

you'd go crazy. But what you did is you took the talent of math and you married it with the talent of instruction. You're a teacher. That's what you've done. See how you work that though? Is there not some people that use a certain skill from a

A strategic viewpoint and some from a tactical viewpoint. Yeah. That's the bucket I'm looking at. Yeah. I'm above it looking down on it. Not in a snobbish way, but I mean, if I have to get down in it, it's messy. Right. But I can do the big math real fast here and I can look for patterns in this place. Right. I can go over our accounting reports in 15 minutes here and know exactly what's going on at Ramsey. Right.

I could see the numbers. They talked to me. That's right. They talked to me. But if I had to create those numbers. That's what I'm saying. You're not a process guy. You're an instruction guy. You're a people guy. But I think people out there, what can happen is somebody that's good at math.

thinks the only way to utilize that skill is the tactical detail. That's it. You can't just take proficiency and say, the only thing I can do is tactics. You could be really good at the English language and not need to be writing content every day. That's exactly right. Well, the methodology is this. I use what I do best...

to do what I enjoy. And you took your talent of numbers and you combined it with what you enjoy, and that is teaching and instructing and communicating. I think sometimes people get real tactical with their gifts. Oh yeah, just, I can only do this. Yep, this is The Ramsey Show.

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And now you really have no excuse not to get it done. That's 20% off at MamaBearLegalForms.com with the code RAMSY. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host. Taylor's in Kansas City. Hi, Taylor. How are you? Hey, good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, man, I've been able to teach a class back in the day at church, and I've really been trying to get ourselves in a better spot as a family. I work as a teacher, and

And here recently, after basically having a second mortgage, paying off student loans, we sold everything. We moved to a rental, sold our home, paid off everything. And here we find ourselves debt-free, loving the extra income, have a chunk sitting in savings and really just kind of like, okay, now what? Looking to kind of get some guidance on what to do with the chunk of money that we have sitting there and setting some stuff up for our kids for college and what we should do next.

You're renting? Yes, we moved to a rental here back in June. And how much is the chunk sitting there, and you're debt-free? A little over $50,000. Okay, all right. And how old are your kiddos heading to college? Not quite yet. I've got a 16-year-old that's in high school, and he's a junior this year, and then I've got a 12-year-old. And your household income's what? About $8,700 a month is our take-home. Good, okay. All right, well, I mean...

Do you have the emergency fund of three to six months of expenses in addition to the $50,000, or is that in the $50,000? No, we do not. We have like $52,000 sitting there, just kind of one big pot at the moment. So your household expenses are what, monthly? Right around $4,000. Okay. So you need $12,000 or $15,000 sitting for an emergency fund. Carve that out of the $52,000 and put it in a separate account.

Now you're at baby step four, five, and six. You should be putting 15% of your income away for retirement. You should be thinking about kids' college. Now, that leaves us with the $35,000, $37,000 that's left in that account. There's two things it needs to go towards. One is we need to sit down and do some detailed planning on where the 16-year-old's going to go to school, like in-state tuition. Right.

or community college. And so what money of that do we need to set aside? We don't need to set it all aside. And what money of that are we going to cash flow? And what money is he going to get on scholarships? And what money is he going to earn while he works, while he's in school? Those are three, you know. So where you go to school gives us the price tag.

Then how much in scholarships and work is he going to help with? What are you going to maybe give him a jumpstart year one or something like that? And, you know, of course, school selection is the biggest. The biggest thing you decide financially on college is where they go, because it'll range from 10,000 to 80,000 a year. Yeah. Okay. So obviously this kid's not going to 80,000. You don't have it.

Right. Okay. So that's, so we're going to, we need a strategy for his. So here's kind of what I'm thinking. I'm thinking you're probably going to earmark about 17 of that 37 towards the 16 year old to get him going. And you're going to pick some schools. You can cashflow, he can help pay for, and he can get scholarships for, and we lay out a strategy now.

that that 17 will help you accomplish. And then I'm going to use the other 20 towards to rebuild a down payment fund to purchase another home. Sure. Does that make any sense?

Yeah, that makes sense. I think the other part with that was just kind of, okay, with that excess now that's each month, what to do with that? Where we look to put that? Pile it in the build-up. If the 17, once you lay the formula out, the detail formula, starting with we're going to go to an inexpensive school, what's it actually cost? Let's look at the school. What's the actual numbers? Let's don't dream up and have vague theoretical concepts. Right.

lay down the numbers. This is what it costs to go to Kansas state. And this is what it costs to go to, to be a Jayhawk. And this is what it costs, you know, whatever it is, right? We're going to lay it out here and here's the community college. And now we're going to choose. Okay. That's all right. If we put 17 towards that, you're going to go get scholarships for this much and you're going to work. And we're going to provide a little bit out of our cash flow. When you get there two years from now to help you get through debt free. Okay. So once we've got that laid out, if the 17 works, okay,

As an example, it's an example. Now I've got, so I took the 52 and I've carved it into three buckets, 17 for the kid, 15 for the emergency fund. That leaves me 20 in the, in the down payment fund and all excess that I can find in the monthly budget is going to go to build that up because you need to get back in a house long-term. I mean, we're not panicking.

But we need to have, so the point being is we've got a series of goals here. All of them are good goals and we just need to force rank them and work our way through them. And that's all I was doing with you. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Really good job. It feels pretty good sitting where you're sitting, doesn't it?

Yeah, it's a wild thing, you know, and looking at only six, seven years away from potential retirement as a teacher, you know, I like what that PSRS system looks like, but I wanted to set ourselves up to not have our kids be 45 and paying off student loans, you know. Yeah, we don't need that. We don't need that. We're done with that. You're breaking the cycle.

For sure. Way to go. Good job. I love that move. I love that. Because now they've got a blank canvas, and if they follow the baby steps, now we're talking about baby steps millionaires pretty soon. Absolutely. Bob's in Dallas. Hey, Bob, how are you? Bob? Thanks for taking the call. Sure. How can we help? Hey, Dave, can you hear me? Yes, sir. What's up? Yeah, quick quote. My fiance and I have separate IRAs, and once we get married,

Your phone's cutting out. You said your fiancé and you have separate IRAs and once you get married, what? Should we combine those IRAs into one IRA account or should we leave them separate? You can't. You can't. IRA stands for individual IRA.

Retirement account. Okay. There are no married accounts, but you do have beneficiaries on all of them. Okay. So all 401ks and all IRAs should have a beneficiary name, meaning when you die, who's it go to? And you need to change those to your wife's name, and she needs to change those to her husband's name. Got it. You wouldn't believe the number of times, dude, it probably doesn't apply to you, but the number of times we find out four years later, somebody dies after a divorce and forgot to change the beneficiary, and the ex gets the 401k money.

Boy, people get pissed off when that happens. You don't say. Because you forgot to change the beneficiary on the life insurance or on the, after the divorce or on the 401k. I have bad dreams about that stuff. Like every year we do our annual meeting with our actual smart investor here locally. What like that have I forgotten? Have you checked everything to make sure I've done it right? Debbie is in Detroit. Hi, Debbie. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi, thanks for taking my call. Sure, how can I help? So I'm out of debt other than our mortgage and we're on steps four, five, and six. And my job just last week offered all of the employees a buyout. Yay! Yay! A five-month salary and six-month payout of COBRA.

complete payout of our paid time off, a bonus. And I'm just trying to figure out if I should take this or not, or if I should stay with the company. What would you do if you didn't take it? What's the alternative? Well, that's the problem. If I stay with the company, I'm in a department of two people. And for sure, the other woman that I work with in that department is taking this package. So

they would probably expect me to take on the work of two full-time employees. And how do you feel about that future? I don't feel good about that future. Yeah, what do you make? Well, with overtime, I make about $120 a year. What do you do? I'm in purchasing. Okay. So what if you went and got another job in purchasing, like in 20 minutes? And this huge amount of money becomes just a signing bonus. Right.

Exactly. That was my plan because there is an opportunity for me to stay with the company until April 2025. So my plan was to find a job that starts in April 2025 as soon as I walk out the door of this company and just pocketing this payout. Every bit of that buyout and payoff. Yeah, that's your plan. Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. I like it. That's fun. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y-Refi. If you're in over your head with private student loans and you're tired of getting calls from collection agencies, you need Y-Refi. Y-Refi refinances defaulted private student loans that other places won't touch.

And they give you a low fixed rate loan customized to you so you can actually pay your bill. That's pretty cool. It's a good way to get the whole thing straightened out. Go to Yrefy.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Aiden in Virginia. I had a work accident that put me out of work for a few weeks. When I returned to work on light duty, I was assigned to a different department and

I enjoy it and have been asked to stay in this position, which will come with a hefty pay increase. The only downside is that if I choose to stay in this position, a work friend of mine will probably be fired. He's the person who encouraged me to grow in my relationship with God and to do the baby steps to tackle my finance issues. How do I save my friendship with my coworker if they fire him and give me his position? I'm scared that he will think I've been faking the friendship and just trying to take his job. I don't want to lose this opportunity at work, but also don't want to be the cause of my friend losing his job.

Well, Aiden, I'm a little confused with the way the question is worded because they've put you in a position and they want you to stay in this position. And I don't see the connection to where that position was his position because he's still there. So if you know something we don't know and you've got a hunch here, if your hunch is right –

This is a pretty sticky situation. It's a pretty tough situation. And I don't have a quick answer to that, although what I would do is they've asked you to stay in this position. So that implies they like you and you've got a little bit of leverage to say, hey, here's a question.

if I take this, I've heard this or I'm feeling this, is this true? Because you've got some hunch or somebody's told you something, and I would go to the leader in a private meeting, and I would ask the leader if this is in fact true. I would not assume anything. I think you've added drama to this. Yeah. I don't know if that's true. The way you've worded this, it doesn't sound like it's a lock. So here's the thing. Business ethics are fairly easy.

Treat other people like you want to be treated. Okay, so you switch shoes. How would you want your friend to treat you if it was you? I can tell you what I'd want them to do. I'd want them to come clean, tell the whole bunch. If I'm you, I'd walk in the boss's office and I'd say, boss, thank you for this position. I am so grateful. I'm so excited. But I got to tell you, if it means that my friend gets fired, I can't do it.

To him, I'm not going to be the cause of my friend losing his job as much as I want this. I would love to have this job, but I will not. I cannot do that. It's wrong for me to cause my friend to get his head chopped off. No, that's the answer. I agree. And if you lose the job, you lose the job. But you can't. You got to sleep with Aiden. You got to look in the mirror. You got to put your head on the pillow at night and go, whew, I feel pretty good.

Yeah, that sucked. I lost that position, but I did the right thing. I got to tell you, man, you can sleep when you do the right thing. Even if the right thing hurts, even if the right thing leaves a mark, you can sleep and you don't get to your deathbed, you know, many years from now.

With this stuff swimming around in your head, wishing you hadn't done this crap. Yeah, I agree. But let's get to the bottom and let's make sure this is in fact the case. It doesn't feel like that the way it's been set up here. So we'll see. If you just put all this stuff on the table, it makes everybody that's trying to do stuff behind the curtain pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. You rip the curtain open, shine a spotlight on the whole thing, and just say it all out loud.

As Deloney says, turn all the lights on. And by the way, that advice, when he says it that way, he's taking the high road. And in that situation, he can read the body language, read the tone, read the stumbling, the stammering, if in fact that happens. And now he has a really good idea, and he doesn't hurt his brand within the building. It's a win-win-win all the way around to handle it that way. Absolutely. And if they're willing...

to lie and go behind your friend's back they'll do it and slit his throat you're next buddy that's true it makes you think you're different so this ain't the sweetest job in the world all of a sudden it's a toxic environment and you want to get out of there anyway so this this this you know the process of flipping on all the lights reveals everything here

All right, boys and girls. It's like, Ken, one of my favorite things, not sarcasm, is someone comes in my office and says, you know, I need to tell you something about such and such, but you can't use my name. And I'm like, well, you can't tell me. Right. Because you're what's known as a gutless wonder. Right. You know? And no, you can't tell me. If you can't stand behind your problem, then you're just a gossip. Right.

And I'm not going to, as a leader, I'm not going to act on anonymous sources. You can kiss my anonymous source. Not a chance we're doing that. No way. That's just gutless, man. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Crazy. Zach is on the line. Zach is in Calgary. Hey, Zach, what's up? Hey, can you hear me all right? Absolutely. How can we help? Perfect. Yeah, so I've been looking for an outside opinion on my situation here.

Um, and I know you guys are going to give me a straight answer. So you can count on that brother. Yeah. Um, so we are a little tight on mortgage. Me and my wife, um, we knew that. What's that mean? You know, well, it's probably north of 40% of our take home. Yeah. That's what they say. Yes. Um, uh,

We're trying to get some advice on what we should do. What is the probability that your income is going to increase dramatically quickly? Unless I take side jobs consistently and work 12 hours plus a day, not likely. You want to do all that just to keep a house? I don't. No, not really. You sell the house. You bought a house you can't afford. Yeah. If your income's not going to go up fairly quick...

I mean, you know, in the next year, two years or something like that to where the house payment ends up being 25, maybe 30% of your take home rather than 40%. You know you're in an unsustainable mathematical situation. You don't have any wiggle room in your dadgum budget. You are what we call house poor. The house owns you. You don't own the house. Oh, I feel it. Yeah.

Our other idea was with a job offer about two weeks ago that's in a smaller town that pays less, but we could buy a house cash or have a very small mortgage and maybe $100,000. What would keep you from doing that? It's a small, small town. You don't want to live there. That's good. That's a good answer. Yeah.

Nothing wrong with any of this. And so here's another option. Get a better job. Yeah. And stay where you are. Well, that's the thing. I'm a plumber, and I got one of the better paying jobs in Calgary. What's your wife do? She's a stay-at-home mom. Okay. She's homeschooling her kiddos. Okay.

All right. Yeah. You guys just, you, you, you got, um, house fever, which causes the brain to stop working and causes us to purchase something we can't afford. And then the fever went away and the bill is still there and you woke up and realized you'd made a mistake. And so I'm sorry, you, you either have to get your income up or you have to get rid of this house. These are your two options. There's nothing else that's going to work here, man. What you're sitting in and you've discovered this, you knew it for you called us.

It's unsustainable. You cannot win. Everything you do after you pay this house payment is hard because the house payment is just eating your lunch. No pun intended.

So, I mean, it's just, it's hard. I've done it too, Zach. I mean, I've done that kind of thing. And you go, oh crap. What did I do? You know, you get, oh man, it's hard. But the good news is you can sell it. And you know, it's not, it's not a tattoo. It's not going to be there forever. So you can get rid of it. That's a plan. Get rid of it. Sell the house. Sorry. That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books.

Before we get to the next caller, I got some good news for you. Even when this portion of today's show runs out of time, there's still plenty more for you to tune into. Just head on over to the Ramsey Network app to finish today's show for free right there on the home screen. And if you don't have the app, just search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play, or simply click the link in the show notes for an easy download. You never know what call is coming up next, so be sure and check out the Ramsey Network app.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, host of the Ken Coleman Show, number one best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, is my co-host today. We're here to help you. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Kristen is with us in Fort Worth, Texas. Hi, Kristen. What's up?

Hi, Dave. I am so honored to be on the show. I'm a little bit nervous trying to gather my thoughts to make sure that I've asked all the questions I want to ask. But I would first of all like to say that I'm thankful to my husband for finding your show almost five years ago. We were able to save $50,000 to put down on the house. Wow. I appreciate it.

all the hard work that you pour into others to be able to change their family tree. So I want to start out by saying that. Good job. And I guess I have more of a moral support question. I know the last year my husband's been able to, you know, I was following along with his plan and for the

Last year, I'd say I intentionally try to follow your plan and listen to y'all's show on my way home from work. And a lot of people call on for moral support. So my husband recently lost his twin brother yesterday. He took his life. Oh, my. His twin brother committed suicide yesterday?

Yes. I'm so sorry. Yes. Um, and I think for me, um,

We have five children and I just want to know how I can support him the best and like any wisdom that you all may be able to bring to the table would be very helpful and just how I can support my husband through this time while also mourning and not

getting so down that I can't support my household and support my husband. And then I'm just afraid of losing my husband through this pain. So I don't know like the right steps to take. Do I just let him mourn for a while and then mention maybe him getting counseling or I just never been through this. Yeah, I haven't either.

I wish Dr. John Deloney was sitting here beside me. Not that Ken Coleman has chopped meat or something, but neither one of us are professionally trained in what you're facing, obviously, okay? And he is. That's why I mean that. So just working in pastoral care around –

uh families that had all kinds of things have happened over the years that a couple things that come to mind are the good news is uh that ladies have a tendency to understand this quicker than men uh we have to train men uh in in these situations because guys like to go in and fix everything we want to go in and make it all better and you can't here

And so what we called it and still do call it when you've got a friend that's hurting in your case, your husband is hurting the we call it the ministry of presence, just going and sitting, being present. You don't have to say anything. You don't have to do anything. You don't have to come up with some pithy saying. People say some of the dumbest things at funerals. Well, he's in a better place. Well, yeah, he is. But I still miss him, you know.

Uh, well, I can't understand. Well, nobody understands. I mean, you can't, there's not, there's not a thing you can say that makes this pain go away. So don't say anything. That's the point. Or don't say much. Don't try to come up with a Bible verse that answers his pain. It doesn't. You just have to walk through it with him. So just holding his hands, making some comfort food. Um, you know, if he wants to talk, let him talk. If he wants to cry, let him cry and just being present.

And grief is a process. You go through it. It comes in waves generally. And you do go through it, though. You don't stay in it. This is particularly hard because this is particularly hard because suicide is particularly hard to grieve. Had twin wives.

The loss of a twin, because there's a special connection. There's a special connection. We have twin sons that are eight, so I feel like it's almost hard to look at them under the circumstances. Well, you can look at them and say it's a beautiful thing. Twins have a special connection. My wife's a twin. She and her sister...

They say they sometimes know what the other one's thinking and they're three hours apart. You know, I mean, it's strange and it's weird and it's wonderful, but it's sad. It makes us super sad. So your kids are going to be OK. You're going to be OK. And your husband's going to be OK. But it's going to take some time and just be kind and present and loving and, you know, listening. Don't try to fix it.

If it goes on for weeks on end and he becomes depressed and doesn't go through the grief process, it doesn't begin to gradually, there's some sunshine coming out of the dark clouds, then yeah, you're going to recommend you see somebody. But not 24 hours after his brother commits suicide. He does not need therapy 24 hours after he commits suicide. I would jump in really quick, though. Kristen, if I were you in your shoes as the spouse and the fears that you've shared with us, I would call our friends at BetterHelp.

This is a wonderful service. These are licensed therapists. And having someone who's a real pro give you some steps that you can take and advise you and counsel you. I agree with Dave. Your husband doesn't need it, but this wouldn't be a bad idea for you to get some sessions in there and have someone guide you through the best way to

to be present. As Dave said, there are some ways that you can do that. And you also need to confront your fear because your husband's twin brother committed suicide doesn't necessarily mean that you should be projecting that fear. And I would talk to a professional about that. I think that'd be a wonderful step for you to give you some tools to be present. Yeah, that's so sad. Wow.

Tragic. The other thing the Ramsey family would do, we'd be on the phone with our pastor. Yeah, that's absolutely right. And we would want the closest mature, wise, calm, pastoral pastor team and friends from our church community to

in our living room. And we're in the south, so you have to bring a casserole to everything. It's like a rule. So...

Everybody brings food. It's like you're supposed to gain weight during this time. It's like, but we do. It's part of the process. It's old school. But that there's community. Community. What is it? Deloney says he always quotes the author. Grief demands a witness. And so having sitting in a room by yourself is not a good way, a healthy way to grieve.

You know, I just want to be by myself. Yeah, that's okay for a little while. But having people around you just not to fix you, but just sitting there with you. Community is a big deal. This is The Ramsey Show.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey good folks, the back-to-school madness is upon us. It's hitting us right now. We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on. My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects. And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

Here's what I've learned. When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first. And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole. And I know that you have to do those same things too. So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments. And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp.com.

BetterHelp is 100% online therapy staffed with licensed therapists. It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule. And therapy can help you learn positive coping skills, how to set and practice boundaries, how to become the best version of yourself, and most importantly, how to find peace in all of this chaos. In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first. Never skip therapy day.

Call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash DELONI today for 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash DELONI. Listen up. Trying to reach your money goals without a rock-solid budget is like trying to climb Mount Everest in ice skates. It isn't going to work. That's why we built the EveryDollar app to help you win with money. It's the simplest, most straightforward way to track your spending...

and give every dollar a job. That way, you can stop letting your money push you around and start reaching those money goals. Download EveryDollar for free on the App Store or Google Play. The Ramsey Cash Giveaway is here. Yeah, we're giving you away cash. About $10,000. You know, the average student loan payment is $500, so that's around 20 extra payments for a lot of people who pay off their loan, right?

Hey, we actually have student loan forgiveness that works. Oh, for one person. Yeah, we're going to give away $10,000. Yeah, that's pretty neat. So go to RamseySolutions.com slash giveaway now through August 31st. You can shop our $12 sale and you can enter the giveaway. No purchase necessary. Must be 18 to play.

So if you want a $12 sale on any of our best-selling books by Ken Coleman, Dr. John Deloney, Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, Jade Warshaw, and George Campbell, they're there. Ramseysolutions.com slash store. Gina is in Gainesville, Florida. Hi, Gina. How are you? Hey, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So a crane fell on top of one of our investment properties two days ago. Wow.

Yeah, it kind of destroyed the house. It's completely inhabitable. And we were all very devastated about it. And then the tree removal company, they asked for partial payment. The tree removal company, it was their crane? Yeah, it was their crane. And they want to be paid for destroying the house? They want to be paid a partial payment. And me and my husband are just very shocked that we're here with a house that's

And you destroyed my house and you want me to pay you for that? Yeah, I'm glad you're shocked as I am. Well, that's just ridiculous. That's cray cray. Yeah. What is their justification for this? Well, they have said that they still have to pay their employees for the work. Well, yeah. That's their employee that dropped a crane on my house.

Yeah, that's kind of where we're feeling. We're feeling it's a completely ridiculous thing for them. Do they have insurance? Yes, they do. They have insurance. Good. Their insurance can pay their employees. That's what we were thinking. I mean, that's what sounds normal. Yeah, so let me just help you with this. I'm not paying them. Yeah, that's what we were wondering. Nope. Should we pay or not? Nope, nope, nope, nope. And by the way, just asking for that's so asinine that it's just laughable.

Yeah, I mean, we thought that, but we're like, we're not business professionals. Well, you know, it's not business. It's just common sense. It's common sense, okay? I mean, the mechanic working on my car runs it out the back and totals it, but he wants to be paid for the brake job. I mean, really? That's what we're talking about, right?

Yeah, pretty much to a certain extent. It's just dumber than crud, man. Some people, their parents are cousins. Oh, my gosh. That's just, that's strange.

Now, I would just you don't have to be mean about it. You just say, listen, we're seeking legal counsel because we want to make sure that everything is made whole here. And when our lawyer tells us that we can release funds to you, it'll probably be that we will. But it'll probably be after the house is repaired because that's how these things work. I'm sorry you misunderstood how that's going to work, but that's probably what we're going to do. But we'll talk to our lawyer and let you know. And you do need to actually probably get a lawyer.

Yeah, we're in the process of dealing with lawyers and attorneys and adjusters. Yeah. Yeah. Tell your lawyer about that request, and after he gets done laughing, he'll tell you what he thinks you should do. Because that's exactly what's going to happen. Listen, I'm not able to answer questions as dumb. You have to talk to my lawyer for dumb questions. Right. Yeah.

Dave's advice was way nicer than mine would have been. I'd have told these folks to pound sand. I mean, just literally get it. I mean, you've got to be kidding me right now. That's so funny. Partial payment. That's so funny. We have to pay our employees. Yeah. Okay. I know. Probably should do better work. You know, that scotch and that crane thing, that's a big deal. I should get off.

This is horrible. You dropped a crane on my house. There's a YouTube thumbnail right there. Dropped a crane on my house. I've not had that call before. 30 years I've been doing the show, never had the crane dropped on my house call. Cheryl is in Spokane. Hey, Cheryl, what's up? Hi, how are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

I was wondering how do we save for the step four, the three to six month emergency fund, and then the next step, retirement, when we have upcoming expenses? Okay, maybe step three is your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. You're out of debt. You've gotten out of debt.

No, but I will be on baby step two and we'll be out of debt. How much have you been saving? How have you been getting out of debt? You had money in the room and margin in the budget to get out of debt, right? Yes. Okay. Why can that room in the budget, margin in the budget not be used to build up baby step three? Because we need a new well on our property. Okay. How long have you needed a new well on the property?

A year. Okay. And how have you made do without it? We have a cistern, so we have water delivered. It costs us $244 a month. How much will the well cost? About five different estimates. It depends on how deep they have to drill, anywhere from $20,000 to $30,000. Really? Yeah. You on a mountain or something? No. I'm in a dry part of Washington. Very rocky. Okay.

Wow. Okay. We're spoiled in Tennessee. We poke a hole in the ground, water shoots out. Well, nice. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy. It's everywhere. It's a couple doors down. Newhouse, just a couple doors. And that's what they're comparing it to, I think. Newhouse, a couple doors down. They had to go 280 feet. Why is that 20 grand? Is it solid rock? It's rocky. It's not solid rock, but...

Okay. I want you to, did you actually get a bid? Yes. You had one company or two companies come out and give you a bid. 280 feet is $20,000. That doesn't sound right. I mean, I've drilled a thousand foot well in Tennessee and we didn't pay anywhere near that.

It's not solid. It has rock in Tennessee, but not solid rock. So I really don't know. I've just done it, and I'm certainly not a well expert in the state of Washington. So I'm not questioning. I'm just, it sounds out of whack. So anyway, if I'm in a situation and something sounds out of whack, and I don't know, because I'm ignorant about it, meaning I don't have knowledge about it, which is me right now in your situation, I don't know, I'm going to gather more information. I'm going to become a freaking well expert for $20,000? $20,000?

I'm going to learn everything about it and every different company in the area that has any kind of new technology or old technology or different kinds of systems, and I'm going to learn, you know, okay, here are the 14 ways this can be done. Ten of them are ridiculous, and these other four we can seriously kind of comb through and decide which way we're going to do. What is your household income? Yearly or monthly? Yearly.

$62,000. Okay. All right. So it's going to take a while to get $20,000 no matter what we do. Yes. How long have you been doing this cistern thing? One year, you said, right? A year, yes. The other well just went bad? It went dry? Yes. What a pain in the butt. I'm sorry. That's a hard one. Because I don't know where you're going to get $20,000. How much debt have you paid and how long did that take you?

We had $9,000 in debt. And it took you how long? Four months ago. You did $9,000 in four months making $62,000? You've been making some extra money somewhere. No, no. I mean, no. I still owe $5,000. Oh, okay.

All right. So anyway, extra work, tight budget, pile up money to get the money to do the well and do the emergency fund in some order. And you need to gather up more information because I'm, I've got the German shepherd on this one. I've got the head sideways, right? And I want to learn more. This is the Ramsey show.

Looking for a place to get honest and reliable news? Then check out The Megyn Kelly Show, hosted by my friend, Megyn Kelly. The Megyn Kelly Show is your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures today. No agenda and no fear. Megyn also interviews a variety of guests from different backgrounds where she explores both sides of contentious issues.

The show provides in-depth discussions and insights into relevant topics shaping society today. So be sure to look for The Megyn Kelly Show wherever you listen to podcasts. All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions.

Ramsey Trusted Agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're someone you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey Trusted Agent near you at RamseySolutions.com slash agent. RamseySolutions.com slash agent. Andres Gutierrez is my guest. The machete for your money.

I can't do the Spanish version. I chop up credit cards with scissors. He goes into the Latino community and chops them up with a machete.

And, uh, he does a show much like this show on Spanish radio and in Spanish podcasting, answering questions. And, uh, Andres used to be on our team years ago. Uh, he left to start to take what we were doing as a Spanish initiative in those days, years ago, and, uh, to do it on his own with our blessing. And, uh, uh,

He's an amazing, amazing young man. And he dropped by Nashville today. He doesn't live here anymore. And did our devotional with our team this morning. And we asked him to come on and hang out since he's a big-time radio guy now that he left us. Welcome, my friend.

Dave, happier than a flea on a hairy dog. I love it. To be back home. Well, this is your second home for sure. Your second home for sure. And you're always welcome here. So there's an awakening, you told me at lunch. We were having lunch a few minutes ago in the Latino community.

uh on this whole issue of money yeah and um i mean you and i've been having this discussion about how to take the this message of debt freedom of being responsible being on a budget thinking long-term investing all of the stuff that we do around here and and inserting that more thoroughly into the uh latino community we've been having that discussion for 15 years you and i

But you're saying they're waking up. There's a wake up. Yep. Dave, before I answer that, let me just take a minute. On Romans 13, it says to give honor where honor is due. And I'm happy to be here. I mean, my wife and I, we lived here for almost six years. My kids kind of grew up here. But the reason why we moved from San Antonio to Tennessee was because there was a moment when in your heart, you know, there was a soft spot for the Spanish speakers to

And the story goes that you were trying to learn Spanish. You even hired a Spanish coach. Yeah. And that kind of didn't work out. Worse than that, we did overdubs that were really bad and nasty. It was like a kung fu movie. Yeah. You know, it was like, oh, it was nasty. With a Cuban accent. Yeah. Yeah. Was it Cuban? It was a Cuban accent. I had no idea. All I knew was it wasn't English. Yeah. Okay. One day I took a call. Hillbilly Spanish. Yeah. That's what it was. But I took a call.

and said, hey, we're telling the richest community we know that these truths would change their lives, and we're looking for a Spanish communicator. And I remember the question, are you ready?

And I was over there doing my thing as a financial advisor. And not long before that, I had this dream. I woke up and I knew there was something special. And I saw myself teaching Spanish. And I told my wife, she said, I don't know. I said, just pray about it. And then that call came in. And that's what got this whole thing started. And I just want to say thank you, brother, for your trust.

But I just wanted to say, you know, thank you for that. And I just wanted to honor you today and thank you for the invitation. Well, thank you. We had a good run here together and you've had a great run after that. So very, very well done. Very good. Good job, man. But to answer your question, you know, this awakening didn't just happen because the earth tilted another degree. It happened because we've been with this pick, you know,

Me and others probably, you know, just with the internet, you know, with the internet opening up, you know, a platform for a lot of people. But we've had this, you know, pick on our hand and we've just been, Ken, just hitting that rock and hitting that rock and hitting that rock. And then one story and one testimony to a two, to four, to eight, to 16, to 64, to 128, 256, whatever the number, 512, 1024. Yeah.

And that snowball has now impacted tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of families that are living this awesome life where money is no longer a worry. And you would be so proud and surprised

what happens to these families when they get it, Ken, and it starts happening. You listen to the show and then what happens, how much people begin to earn and what's happening in their lives. Now we're doing some conferences, we're running into people that started with nothing and they're bringing statements with accounts over a million dollars. Dave, they're bringing the statements, showing me accounts. Understand,

There was zero. Like we had no clue about money, but we've been doing it long enough that there's been enough time where these families have crossed the seven digit mark because of the stuff that came out and sprung out of here in 2009. I love it. Very well done. Now, this marriage event you guys are doing, that's probably different in the Latino community, is it?

No. Okay. It is different because imagine, you know, the way you hear it. So, you know, the way, you know, you've heard. So all we did is we took a little bit of salsa, you know, just a little spice, a little jalapeños, and just added some of that stuff to it. And that's what has us. Actually, it's two things. You know, my wife and I, we wanted to come and hang out at Nashville with some friends.

And then Jorge, somebody from the team, ran into somebody from your team. And they said, hey, you know, Andre's going to be here. Would you come and do Devo for us? And I accepted that. And I was excited to be here. And then we said, why don't we do, you know, this new conference? And here's what happened, Dave. You know, I've been doing this conference on money. And when I touch, you know, for those 15 or 20 minutes on marriage and money, I can see people just like scoot up in their chair.

And then we started hearing these comments where they're like, Andres, I've been married for 20 years. And in those 20 minutes, I've seen more change in my husband. I've seen more change in my wife than in 20 years of marriage. And I was like, hmm. And read that comment again and heard that comment again. I said, you know what? I think there's something here.

So I've been working for the last 12 months, you know, just kind of reading everything that I can on marriage and money, you know, God's principles and then how to share them. And that starts tonight here in Nashville, Tennessee. Oh, wow. I didn't know you were doing it here. That's awesome. Very cool. Very cool. How's the radio show doing?

I love it. I love doing the radio. I love taking the calls. I love answering questions. I love hearing the stories. And that is kind of, that is the negative pushback. Do you get?

Not much. Oh, you need to stir it up a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like you're not being honest. If you're not getting hate mail, man, something's wrong. No, no. The haters are always there. Okay, good. The hate is there. I don't know if you meant like we're going to turn off your show, we're going to turn off your radio show, we're going to take you off the station. That hasn't happened. Okay. And you know I don't shy away from sharing God's principles. I don't at all. Right. Okay, that's fine. So the marriage and money issue,

uh, Spanish or Hispanic event, Latino event is tonight in Nashville. That's tonight. It's going to be in Franklin at the Williamson County performing arts center. It's beautiful theater next to the library over there. So we're going to be there. We started eight. Uh, we start on time and, uh, for anybody that's listening, there's a Spanish speaker, uh, come on over. We're gonna have a good time talking about this. I love it. I love it.

So we have, I believe you're still using them, six lessons that you did of Financial Peace University in Spanish done by Andreas. They have books. They have a radio show. They have a podcast. They have online. They have other conferences they're doing. If you want to plug in,

to the Spanish-speaking side of what we do, Andreas is our guy. He doesn't technically work on our team anymore, but he's family, and he's who we send people to. We have no idea what he's saying. We hope it's right.

Have you had any complaints? No, we haven't. I'm kidding. AndresGutierrez.com is how you can find out about him. And if you jump on, easy to get a hold of him on the Internet. Not any problem at all. He's everywhere. He's a big deal, especially in that community. And so I'm so proud of you.

It's good to see you again, my friend. AndresGutierrez.com. Be sure and check it out. And for those of you that are listening live, if you're in the area, you want to come by that event tonight, you can find out about it right there on his website. This is The Ramsey Show.

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go to ramseysolutions.com slash store. Ken Coleman is my co-host. Jimmy is in San Antonio. Hi, Jimmy. How are you? Hey there, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yeah, I sent it a question.

Your dude got in contact with me, and now I got to ask it to you in person. So in today's world of like five-round interviews, automatic rejection systems, and like thousands of people applying for the same jobs, how do you think that a 20-something-year-old dude might try and stand out in today's job market? Personal connection.

to the extent that you can find it. And I say this, this is general advice. And I understand that at times it can be more difficult than others, but if you can find a personal connection and it may be one to one, it's more likely one to two, meaning two or three people between you and a person in that building. So if you're applying for company ABC, and the first thing you want to do is just figure out through all of your connections, your close social ties, your,

That's your friends and family, people you're doing life with, and then all of your relationships from acquaintances to former friends at college, Facebook, the socials, all of that. You start to see if you can find somebody that knows somebody in the building at ABC. And what we're trying to do there is through the credibility of relationships,

will that person at company ABC take your resume? And even though you've got to go through all the other stuff, the AI and all the filters, will they take your resume in

and talk to the hiring manager and go, hey, listen, here's how I know Jimmy. And this is what I know about Jimmy. And, you know, I think Jimmy's probably a really good candidate to look at. We really want to be that simple. We want to be that analog in a very digital world. That's going to make you stand out. There's some credibility. Now, there's no guarantee for that.

A second piece of advice I would give is if you get into the interview process, the way to stand out in today's world, and I think has always been the way to stand out, is the questions you ask in the interview. Most people don't treat an interview, Jimmy, like the interview is just as much for them as it is for the company that's looking at you. This is a dating thing. What are some good questions he could ask? Great. So first question I would ask is…

Tell me the kind of person that wins in this role. This is to the hiring manager. Describe the person that you think is going to win in this role. Another question is, describe your leadership and management style. What would someone need to know to thrive and connect well with you? These are two very interesting questions that require that hiring manager to actually think.

And in this process, if they've actually thought about that and they have an answer, they're going to give you an answer. You get to assess if you think you're a good fit there. The second thing it will do is whether they got a great answer for it or not, you're going to stand out because you put them on their heels in a good way. In other words, you didn't ask a twerp question. You asked an insightful question that implies that.

that you want to fill that role. And that's the way you ask it. Those are two samples. But I've got a How to Win the Interview resource at KenColeman.com that's free that goes into great detail so I don't have to list all those out. But that's how you stand out in today's interview process. Well, and it kind of...

I think it's always just a good idea to put the employer's shoes on. Yes. So, I mean, as an employer, I don't personally do interviews at Ramsey anymore, ever. I'm not good at it, for one thing. But what I'm looking for is if they're asking questions that tell me they're a taker, how much does this pay? Yeah, that's exactly right. How much time off I get? Right. You're just trying to figure out how little amount of work you can do for how much money, right? Mm-hmm.

um instead i like questions they're they're not a taker they're they're they're not subtraction they're addition that's right they're not division they're multiplication and so you know how can i add value how can i you're the question you asked i like that one it's like uh what what kind of person wins here yeah you know um

If I came in here and, you know, what's the advice you would say to move ahead at Ramsey? Yeah, that's a great question. And how can I add value? How can I make you more than I cost you? Because that's really what's running through an employer's head is can I ROI this payroll item?

That's what they're asking. It's like if I hire a technician, I'm in the heat and air business. He's got to do more heat and air work than I pay him to make a profit on having hired him. Otherwise, I don't get to keep him because I can't afford him. Here's another question. Describe how this team that you lead, describe how they work together. What's that? How would you describe if you're going to pick a one word to describe this current team? Again, an insightful question that yields an answer for you.

and it actually gives you some sense of what it's actually like there. Yeah, and what kind of team member – what would I need to be to be a great team member? That's right. To add value to this team and to add – what kind of synergy can I add or lift can I add? And so –

By the way, if you get a nothing answer or a crap answer, so if it sounds like a politician on a Sunday morning show, that's the nothing answer. A lot of words, no substance. Or you get a really kind of crappy answer, that's a warning sign that maybe I don't want to be a part of this team. If I can't sit with a leader and a leader tell me, this is the kind of person who wins here. You do this, you win. We reward this here. And they, by the way, will show you. Now, Ramsey example, you asked that question at Ramsey.

And a leader is going to show you somebody in our company. They'll point this way, this way, and this way and say, now they started out in this position. Now they're here. I always think of that old story of the guy walking along the dirt path and he comes along a guy and the guy says, what were the people like in that town you just left over there? And he said, well, what were they like in the last town? Yeah.

He goes, they were wonderful. He goes, you'll find them to be wonderful. He runs another guy and he said, what are the people like over there? And he goes, what'd you find in the last town? He goes, oh, they were horrible. They were just awful. He goes, well, you're going to find that over there too. And so, so if somebody sits down, all they tell me is all the horrible things about all the places they've worked. And the only common denominator is them. I'm done. That's right. Done. So you come in and victim mentality, your interview, you screwed up your interview. Um, so, um,

Because it's possible that you are actually a victim of a toxic thing, but not repeatedly. That's highly unlikely, unless you are, like, attracting this. Well, that's a very good point. I mean, you don't know how to sniff it out. You keep allowing yourself to go to these situations. Well, I mean, yeah, or...

Or you're just a drama queen. You're part of the toxicity. Yeah, you're the core of the issue. There we go. Hey, guys, for all of you that are listening to the show right this second on YouTube or on a podcast, at the top of the hour here, the show is going to end. And the other 40 minutes...

the show is available for free on the new Ramsey network app as a matter of fact all three segments of the all the entire show is available the first part and the last part on the Ramsey network app video and audio and so you can watch the show listen to the show however you want to download the show you can search the show on the Ramsey network app by subject and find calls that we have taken on each subject you can send emails that we will answer and

From the rim on the air from the Ramsey network app. It is 100% free We are not going we do not have plans to take it to a subscription

We simply need to offload part of the programming and we're built out like our audio book stuff is over there. Everything else is we're starting to build a whole network app literally over there. And the last 40 minutes of the podcast, the last 40 minutes of the YouTube show is now available only on the Ramsey network app.

So jump on the App Store, get the Ramsey Network app, download it, open your account. It's completely free. You can watch the whole show there or you can just jump over there and pick up the last 30 or last 40, whatever you want to do. Google Play as well. It works on all of that.

If you're listening on radio, nothing changes. Everything's exactly where it's always been. We're not moving a dime on radio. So if you're in a city where they carry radio runs by the hour, if you're in a city where they carry all three hours, you're still going to get all three hours. We're not changing a thing on that. But this is podcasting YouTube. The last 40 minutes is free.

and available only on the Ramsey Network app in the App Store or in Google Play, and jump over there and get that done. And you can click on the show notes if you want to get the free app, too. That'll be another way you can get it and get it done. I can promise you this. The value...

It's going to be worth the cost. There you go. It's free. It's free, okay? This is not hard. Quit your crying. Don't be crying about it. It's free. Yeah. Ramsey Network. Check it out. This is The Ramsey Show.

You're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.