Patience Always Pays Off in the Long Run
02:03:52 Share

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, find and do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined by my good friend, Mr. Ken Coleman, and we are taking your calls at 888-825-5225. If you've got a question about wealth,

about your work, about your purpose, the impact you're making out there, or you just got a conundrum and you need a third party, maybe an unbiased party, to just give you some advice. Ken Coleman's got lots of wisdom for you. If you don't know what a conundrum is, that just means you got an issue where you feel a little stuck, and George and I, we're going to shoot you straight, and we're going to have fun while we do it.

That's the goal. That's our MO. That's our promise, if nothing else. So let's get to the phones. Victoria kicks us off in Destin, Florida. Victoria, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you doing? Good. How are you? How can we help today? I'm all right. I'm a little nervous. I'm just calling because about five months ago, I had a stillbirth. So sorry. Sorry.

At 39 and a half weeks. Oh, wow. Yeah. So my life has been a little crazy. Yeah. Understandably. And on the work side, just this past month, I recently, you know, just built up the courage to go get another restaurant job. And it turns out that they're just running it.

unethically and the manager and owner are in the tip pool and

basically stealing money from servers. So I'm just kind of at a point where like, I just reached the courage to like go work again. And, um, I live in a tourist destination. So I was even surprised to get this job because most places don't hire till February before spring break. So, um, yeah,

I've tried to start a few different businesses in the past and it just never turned out good. I've tried MLM. I've tried, I've just tried it all. And I'd like to own my own business. Me and my husband are saving to buy land because I want a market garden, but that's not anywhere in the close vicinity.

So I'm stuck in this, this like back and forth of like, well, I'm grieving. So it's hard to, it's hard to start anything right now, but then I don't want to work in restaurants. Yeah. Um, you know, I, I owned a, a childcare, um, my first business when I was 20, I started, uh, nannying for tourists. Um, and that did pretty well, but I, at this point in time, and just can't be

be in the childcare realm. Sure, of course. You know, I've tried starting a sticker business. I've tried

Um, I've tried several different things like, and I just don't know what to do. The internet is such a big place. It's overwhelming, isn't it? You know, I, I've written a grief journal, but it's like, I don't even know how to go about like publishing that and actually making sales. Cause that's, you know,

Dave talked about it, like writing a book and publishing it unless you're on your guys' platform is not a short-term thing. I'm in the middle of grieving. Absolutely. So let's simplify this for a second. Do you need the income? Do you and your husband need your income or is that considered extra? Our shovel is not very big. Sure.

What is he making? He just started a business at the beginning of this year. What is the business? He does lawn care. Lawn care. Okay. Is it already successful? Is there a net profit? Yeah, we started it with cash. We've never been in debt for it. Everything's paid for. We're saving for more equipment. Okay.

It's just slow. Sure. So the answer is you do need your income. It's not like you're... Our bills and our life is paid with his income, but there's no extra. Okay. So my money is just for extra. Okay. So we're going to reverse engineer this, okay, with a couple rapid fire questions. So what would be the amount of money, forget what you're doing, okay, but let's say we're taking restaurant business off the table. Okay.

What would be the amount of money that if I snap my fingers and you were making that you would be able to breathe easier and continue the grieving process with a lot less stress because of the money you're bringing in? What would be that amount of money? I mean, my idea would be about $6,000 just for savings. Our living situation is not a month. $6,000 a month. Okay. Okay.

So that's a pretty... Are you talking about for the two of you or just you? For... Well... I'm talking about just you. What would be an income? I'm trying to get to a baseline. What's the number that you would really like to make? How much? Four. $4,000 a month? $4,000 a month. Okay, great. All right. So I think that's an important number to kind of put in the whiteboard of your head, if you will, or write it down on a piece of paper and go, okay, that's what I'm looking for financially. That becomes our goal. All right? Now...

Outside of the restaurant business in that world where there's really just no juice, you don't love it. It's just kind of something you're doing. It could be difficult. The hours can be crazy. You're grieving. Doing some work that is connected to that thing that you would do, which is if I give you a blank check to write yourself for a business, you would buy a piece of land and you would be in gardening, some type of plants and gardening. Am I understanding that correctly? Yes, sir. Okay, great. So here's what I'm suggesting.

And I know the area that you're in, love that area. It's one of the greatest areas on the planet. Our family goes down there a lot. I would be thinking about the gardening centers, the

I would be trying to get in that space. Could you get an hourly job or even a salary job in that space where someone else is paying you and you're in that space, you know, healthy plants, eating fruits, veggies. Am I making sense so far? Yeah. We just don't really, everything here is luxury stuff. We just don't have,

I'd have to go like an hour north where we would buy land. Well, forget the land right now. No, no, I'm not talking about the land. Can you get a job at the Lowe's in Destin in the gardening center? That's what I'm saying.

Like get around the plants and get in that space, like work for a, you know, a very successful farmer out there who's they're growing this stuff and selling it. I think you need to try to get in that space because it's something that you really enjoy. I think it's going to advance the healing process. Can I get paid to do something very similar to what I would do for myself? Does that make sense? Yes. That's what I think you should focus on. You need some income. You need to heal.

Okay. And so instead of trying to start a business or even worry about that right now, now's not the time. I think you're very mature to understand that. So my encouragement is let's get out of the restaurant game and

And let's go get as close as we can to the type of work you really would want to do for yourself. Get some stability with that full-time job, close to what you want to do while you build this thing on the side. I'm going to send you some resources. Hang on the line. We're going to send you Ken Coleman's Get Clear Assessment. That's really going to sharpen this image of what you want to do. And we're going to send you Dr. John Deloney's bestselling book, Own Your Past.

change your future to help you with this grieving process and help you take the next step. I'm so sorry for what you've been through, and I'm excited for the future ahead for you guys in this business, and we're wishing you the best, Victoria. Thanks so much for trusting us with this call. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Ken Coleman. This is your show, America. You call us with your questions about money and work and everything in between, 888-825-5225. I know a lot of you out there, you're struggling. You don't love the job you're in. You've got the toxic boss, the toxic environment. There's this other thing you want to do that you've got this itch for. My friend Ken Coleman is the expert on work.

and he's going to help you make a plan and make a path to get there. And of course, I'll help you with those money questions that are on your mind. Speaking of money questions, I'm really proud of you, George. Your new book coming out in January. That's right. And this is really fun. It's called Breaking Free from Broke.

and he's got a copy of it right there. This is the actual cover. It's the actual cover. You look great in your little denim outfit there. I shouldn't say little. I don't know why I throw that in there. It's little on the cover. Yeah, but let me tell you what. This book is not little. It's got a lot of great content in it, and this book is a little bit different, and I want people to know this. So in your words, George, I got all the talking points. We want people to know about the special deal. I'll get to that very briefly, but how is it different than every other money book that we've put out? Well, this is...

my personal experience and tons of research on how the system, the financial system is designed to screw you over, how it's designed to keep us broke. That's right. And how I broke free from it. And it's controversial in today's world, Ken, to tell people, oh yeah, I don't have a credit score. Yeah, I don't use a credit card. Oh, I don't have a car payment.

Oh, I don't have a mortgage payment. People look at you like you've got seven eyes. And so I walk people through exactly why the system is set up this way and how you can break free from it through very simple steps, the same steps I use to go from broke to millionaire that millions of people have stood on a debt-free stage and talked about, you know, budgeting and how spending can be self-control and how you can actually save for the future and build wealth with patience and

But it takes getting riled up about the current state of things, which doesn't take long, by the way. That's exactly right. When you look up at all the excuses we can make and what the system is doing to us. So this is the book I wish I had when I was in my 20s. It's very practical. It's going to feel like he's reading your mail as to what you're dealing with and how to break free from it. It's available today for pre-order for only $20, and you get $100 in free bonus items.

including a talk that George does. It's great. It's called Show Me the Money. You get the audio book, the e-book, and an online Q&A with George. All of that is available at ramsaysolutions.com. Go pre-order it today. It could be a great gift for somebody for Christmas as they head into the new year with maybe some new financial goals. It's called Breaking Free from Broke, and it's a fabulous book. You've got to get it. Thank you for that kind endorsement, Ken. You bet.

By the way, I noticed my endorsement didn't make it on the back of the book, so it's a little awkward. It did not. We found some... Some other bigger names, it looks like. Yeah, we thought we could have Mike Rowe or Ken. Who are we going to choose? I guess I see where I stand.

on the old george camel totem pole of friends you know what you were quoted in the book ken to be is that right yes i didn't even know this maybe multiple times i must have missed that you'd have glazed over that i glazed over that you're too upset tell me what page number that is i'll get to that tonight that'll be exciting i'll facetime your kids will be like we'll read it together so cool you made it they like george my kids think you're cool that means the world not me

Well, you're a bit older than me. I get it. A bit. Not by much. I know. All right. Let's get to the calls. Jared is in Salt Lake City. Let's see if we can help him out. Jared, what's going on?

Hey, guys. I've got a question for you. We are moving from Salt Lake to Texas in June, July of next year, 24. Nice. And I've just got a question about should we continue paying our monthly minimum on our student loans in efforts to try to save up for a house purchase that we know we're going to have to make in that June-July timeframe? Or should we throw everything that we can at our student loans now and

and then see what happens in June, July for a house and where to live. What's the total debt amount you owe? We just have, it's $135,000 in student loan, and that's the only debt that we've currently got. Well, that's plenty. I don't think we need any more. Yes. Okay. What's your household income? Right now it's around $120,000, but in August it should double to about $240,000. So this is a job in Texas or are you remote?

Uh, it's a, my wife's actually in residency right now and she's gonna, residency's ending in June and then she'll start a new job in August, um, at a clinic, uh, being a full-time practicing doctor. Wonderful. And that's why the income increased. Love it. And that's why the move as well, so. Doubling the income, I would assume is a similar cost of living? Is it going to be cheaper in Texas slightly? It will be, it will be cheaper. Okay. So like, um, we're currently paying $2,200 a month in rent, um, and,

We would rent, but there's just nowhere to rent and we're removing too. Hold on, hold on, Jared. Now I'm fighting words right there. You're telling me there's not a single place to rent in Texas.

Not one. In this town, there's not very many places to rent. Let me rephrase that. I would feel comfortable living with my baby. Jared wants to buy a house. Am I right? You're just itching to buy a house. That's okay. We would like to buy a house. Okay. So here, you called our show. We're going to give you our advice, and it's exactly what we would do. I would not buy a house before these student loans are paid off.

I know that stinks because that means we're going to aggressively attack these student loans until we move and maybe after we move and we're going to rent for a year, maybe two years, because then we still got to get an emergency fund in place. What's the timeline on that, George? Well, most people pay off all of their consumer debt in 18 to 24 months using the debt snowball method. And with your income doubling, how quickly can you pay off $135,000 making $240,000?

a year at the very latest. Love that. Wow. Now you're not making that $240,000 for a little while. And so that's going to slow this down a little bit. Do you guys have any savings? We've currently got about $15,000 in savings. Okay. So that could be a head start on this debt payoff.

And that'll help you knock out this debt faster, help you get back to a fully funded emergency fund, which may be $30,000 for you guys. I don't know. And beyond that, we start saving up for the down payment on a house. I imagine it's going to be expensive in that area to buy a house. Do you have a ballpark number of what it would cost to get a reasonable home there?

A small starter home would be around $300,000, and that's what we'd like to move into, just a relatively updated starter home. Okay. So here's my question, Jared. If you follow George's advice, and you should, how long would you be renting? We'd be renting for—we'd probably have to do a year lease.

And rent for a year. That is nothing. My wife and I rented for two years when we moved from Atlanta back to Nashville. We had three kids, so we really wanted to make sure that we were landing in the right place. I just want to point that out, that you're going to be debt-free and in your first home, and that is such a better prospect than if you do it your way. I agree with George wholeheartedly. You're not throwing money away, by the way, for a year. Yeah.

Yeah. And I know you might be limited in options of where you're going to rent that's nearby, but it's only a year. You guys sound young. How old are you two? We're 29, and we've got a three-month-old. Wow. It's a three-month-old. It doesn't care if you're living in a box, you know? So you get there on the ground in Texas, and you get a lay of the land. I like it for a lot of reasons. Yeah.

Not just the financial reasons, but also just getting there on the ground. You're renting. You got a lot of freedom. Yeah. Where do you guys want to raise that child? I like that. What are the school districts like? You know, all of that stuff is you need to just take your time with it. So even if you were in a good financial position, renting is still a wise move when you're moving across the country to figure some things out and settle in.

Yeah, and we know we want to be there for the long haul. The place she's working is a clinic that we could buy out eventually. Cool. But we don't want to plan for that. We just want to plan for what's in this next seven months, what's in this next year. Rent, rent, rent.

It's right financially and it's right emotionally to make a decision you feel confident in. You guys want to be there long term. I would absolutely rent for a minimum of a year to go, where do we want to plant our roots? And all of that's going to help you make different decisions down the line when it comes to buying out this clinic and you don't have debt payments weighing you down and you've got a bunch of money in the bank and you've got a reasonable mortgage payment because you waited until you had a solid down payment.

All of those things are going to affect the rest of your life. And so I want you to make decisions now that you're going to be proud of a decade from now. Where you go, yep, that was the right move. It delayed us two years, but man, it catapulted us for the future.

So hope that helps, Jared. Yeah, it does. Thank you. Excited for you guys and the move and the jump in income. And you got a little baby that you're raising. This is exciting time. I got a three-month-old too, Ken. I know. How's that? Yeah, you look remarkably rested today, I must say. So much cake, dog makeup. Oh, is that what it is? You look fantastic. I would be more tan if I had makeup on, let's be honest. Hey, more of your calls coming up. 888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show.

These days, it's not if your identity gets stolen, it's when. And the only ID theft protection plan I have ever recommended is from Zander Insurance. It helps real people with real life situations.

Like the call we got on the show recently where a woman's abusive ex opened a credit card in her name and racked up over $8,000 in debt. Then the bank sued her even though the charges weren't hers. What a mess. With Xander's help, she was able to get the entire nightmare cleared up and now her family is officially devastated.

debt-free. Listen, Zander's identity theft protection is the best option out there. They have all the cyber tools and monitoring services you need. They cover all types of ID theft, and they even include up to $2 million in stolen funds protection. In the end, though, you need an ally, someone on your side to take over the work and fix the problem. That's what Zander is all about. Go to Zander.com to learn more or call 800-356-4282.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman. The number to call is 888-825-5225. We'll take your call live. And if you're uncomfortable, you're nervous, we can change your name, your location. We want to do whatever makes you comfortable. We just want to make sure you get the help that you're looking for. And our phone screener, Christian, can assist you with that if you make it through, if you should be so lucky.

Our question of the day is sponsored by Neighborly, your hub for home services. Let me ask you this. When was the last time you thought about your dryer vent, Ken? You know, I think about it two or three times a year because it could cause a home fire if you don't get that cleaned out. I'll bet you don't even know where yours is.

I know the location. Do you? Yeah. That's more than I... I'm impressed. I clean out the lint every time, if that's any consolation. I now do, but several years ago, I had no clue. You were that guy. And my father-in-law said, you should probably clean that out once a year. No clue where it was. Here's why it's important. Those clogged dryer vents are the cause of thousands of house fires every year. That's what I just said. So let the experts at Dryer Vent Wizard clean yours. Don't let Ken Coleman do it. He'll do a terrible job. 100% do not want me. Yikes. Yeah. Yeah.

Let the pros handle it. Visit neighborly.com slash Ramsey to schedule service today. All right, today's question, George, comes from Nick in Wisconsin. I just graduated college with a finance degree and got a job offer from a real estate investment firm to be an agent, but it's only commission, which means I wouldn't see money for 6 to 12 months. I want to know if I should stick with this job and get a remote part-time job or find another job.

I want to work for myself but don't have the money and don't know where to start. Wow. Okay, so we've got a little bit of a head-spinning question here. We're all over the place. Let's talk about the commission job. So you got the job offer from a real estate investment firm, and you have that ramp-up time. So can you adjust your life? Would a part-time job give you enough to stay in it? A. B. C.

Would the part-time job distract you from crushing it in that first six to 12 months to where you're building your pipeline, you're getting going? These are questions that I would ask. You've got to get the answers to these questions, George, because they really determine whether or not the part-time job is even an option. Can you financially survive in a straight commission job? You're not the first person I would venture to have to do this kind of thing. So then that begs the question, do you want to be in real estate long-term? If the answer is yes, then

then this is an option. It doesn't have to be the only option. However, this is the game. Real estate, by nature, is a straight commission play. So it feels like in the back half of the question, George, he's kind of going, I don't know if I should do this. I want to work for myself, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so we've got to get clear on what's that 15, 20, 25-year play? What's that mountaintop professionally that I want to scale?

And I know it's hard when you're coming out of college, but it is possible. It's why I created the Get Clear assessment that we sell at Ramsey Solutions. It helps you go, okay, what is it that I do best? What is it that I enjoy doing? And then what results would give me tremendous motivation and joy if I knew I was producing a result? Remember, all work is around a product or a service.

I'm indirectly involved in providing the product or the service, or I'm directly involved. And so really getting to that, that's really important for this young man. So trying some things, testing some things. Yeah, finance is a wide space. Don't put all your eggs in this one real estate basket. Yeah, finance is such a wide space. He may go, you know what, I really want to be in the banking sector, or I want to be a financial analyst, or on the investment side versus real estate investment. So

I don't think this is a bad move, but you're probably going to have to find an evening job to just pay the bills. And if six months down the road, you're like, this isn't it. This is not for me. You got to go find something else. But I would also be asking, hey, can you show me what the last five guys have made in the first six months of them starting out?

Just very entry level. How long till they see a paycheck? I just got to know for my own bills and expenses. I think that's a reasonable ask to me. Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. And here's something else too. Get around people that are in all different areas of finance. To your point, the banker, the investment advisor.

you know, whatever, all the options and just get around at this stage in your career. You're so young, get around some people, multiple different channels, if you will, or lanes, right?

and just shadow them talk to them take them to lunch coffee and get an idea whether or not that's something you want to try and i'd even do that with the real estate pro too we go all right do i really want to go through the next six months and now's the time when you're a young single college grad that's the time to try out all the things and no one's gonna miss you if you're working at night so it's okay that yeah i was working a lot of nights just side hustling just trying to get rid of debt get a savings goal get a down payment for a house all of those things and uh

It didn't kill me, Ken. I'll tell you that much. I survived to tell the tale. You did. You did. Thanks for the question, Nick. Appreciate it. All right. Cameron is up next on the line in Knoxville, Tennessee. Cameron, what's going on? Hello, Mr. Campbell and Mr. Coleman. How are y'all doing this afternoon? Doing well. How can we help? It's an absolute honor to be able to speak to the two of y'all today. I've been listening regularly to the show for about four years, so I'm trying not to fangirl too hard, but no promises.

Well, George is used to it. He handles it with grace. I'm 19 and currently studying construction science and management at the University of Tennessee. I absolutely love it. I've been working construction for a few years now, but decided that I wanted to run a business. So I started a little construction and handyman service here in Knoxville.

I recently learned how lucrative this kind of business can be. Coming from a very humble, middle-class household, it's really exciting for me just to see a check with four digits on it. This excitement, sadly, has led me to forget my priority here. I'm a Christian myself, but I've realized that recently I've been spending my life chasing money and business rather than God. You broke up on us, Cameron. Speak directly on your phone. Sorry. I'm sorry. Can you hear me a little better? There we go.

What was the last thing you heard? You said you were chasing money instead of your relationship with God. That's the last thing I heard. Yes, sir. So that moves me to my question. I'm calling today not necessarily for money help, but more so for spiritual guidance. I want to work hard and build a good life for myself and my future family, but I also don't want to live a life focused on my worldly desire for wealth. How in the chase for success have you each personally dealt with prioritizing your relationship with God? I'll jump in first and just say that

I appreciate the question, but you working and being successful is not mutually exclusive from having a relationship with God. Like, you should be able to do both. In fact, I believe if you're going to ultimately be successful, you've got to understand what the success is based in. I'll give you a verse that stuck with me. My dad gave it to me when I was probably 16.

So not much younger than you. 2 Timothy 2.15, this is the King James Version. That's the one I've got memorized, so you can look it up in a different version. It's a little old school, but it says, "...study to show thyself approved unto God a workman who needeth not to be ashamed."

That's just part of the verse. And that stuck with me. And I believe that Genesis chapter 2 makes it very clear that we were created to work. And I think, you know, you look at Colossians 3.23, do your work as unto the Lord. You know, work itself is, in fact, what God created you to do. In fact, I think there's two things.

There's two primary purposeful roles in a human. One is relationship, first and foremost, whatever the relationship situation you've got in your life, and the relationship with God. So with God and then with your family, that's your primary role. There's purpose in that role. And I think there's purpose in your work role, whatever it is.

And so I would just encourage you that you're not choosing between one or the other. You can absolutely go after it to be successful financially and vocationally. But that does not in any way cancel out you having the ability to be successful spiritually. George? Yeah, I think this is going to take a reframing, Cameron, to go, all right, money's not evil, wealth is not evil. 1 Timothy 6.10 says the love of money is the root of all evil. And so we've got to search in our heart and go, where is this –

greed and fear and pride coming from? Is it a scarcity mentality because I didn't grow up with money? It sounds like that's a part of it. And when you realize, listen, I'm a steward of this money that God's blessed me with in this business. I want to use it wisely. I'm going to give wisely. I'm going to spend wisely. I'm going to save wisely. And when you do that, I don't see it as interfering with your relationship with God. In fact, I think it makes the whole thing a whole lot richer.

So I hope that helps. Baby Steps Millionaire's book talks about this. The Legacy Journey talks about this. So check those out. I think that will help you reframe some of this. Our friend Rabbi Lappin's book, Thou Shall Prosper, also a great read on this topic.

This is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Ken Coleman this hour. The number to call is 888-825-5225. Don't be shy. Ken and I, we're very gentle, and we're going to make sure that you get the help you need with very little judgment. That's true. I don't know if I'd choose the word gentle. Well, you're not the type to get angry and yell at a caller. Yeah. You'll rant about an issue. That's right. But with callers, I think you're a kind soul. We're here to help. That's it.

That's it. And hopefully entertain at times. We're going to try to be fun today. Let's see if we can do that here with Tammy. Who's up next? Tammy in Chattanooga is up next. Tammy, how can we help today?

Thank you for taking my call. I'm hoping I can get some advice from y'all today. Oh, you're going to get advice. Whether or not it's good or not is up to you. Well, in August, my husband and I jumped on the Ramsey train, and since August, we have paid off $22,000 in credit card vehicle. Whoa! Choo-choo! Awesome. That's awesome. We now currently owe on our house, and we only owe $150,000 on it. Wow. Yeah.

I show that by figuring, it looks like we can pay this off in two and a half to three years. The problem is we...

We both currently are not investing 15% in our retirement. We both have a pension. Therefore, when we started in our careers, we never invested in a pension because we had the pension. So we never invested in a 401K. But we currently do that now. But it's only like maybe at 3%.

So my husband is hoping to retire in a year and a half to two years from his current job, but he'll still work after he retires, but he will be drawing the pension once he retires. So my question is, would you suggest that we go ahead and invest that 15% or go ahead and pay our house off first because we can pay it off in two and a half to three years

If we don't invest and then after we pay the house off, then we can invest a lot into our retirement and continue and do that then. I think you're seeing this as a black and white A or B issue. I want you to do both of these things. You should be investing 15 percent with whatever money is left over. Let's throw it at the house. Now, to your point, that might slow this down by six months or a year, right?

Possibly a year to a year and a half. Okay. I'm all right with that because that money is going to compound for you for the next 30 years in those investment accounts. So I don't want you to delay investing at the sake of paying off the mortgage a year early. So when it comes to this pension, is this the company is forcing this out of your paychecks? No, no. Our pension, we are both in public service. Okay. Okay.

So we have a pension through that. The problem with pensions is that they're out of your control and they perform very poorly. And so I don't want you just relying on the pension. You should also be investing in that 401k up to that 15%. Okay. How much is being taken out percentage-wise right now for the pension?

Um, we don't, we don't have to invest in a pension itself. Yes. Okay. Yes. We only contribute to the 401k, but it's like 3% that we're putting in our 401k right now. I would bump that up. And, uh, how old are you two? 54, uh, excuse me, 55. Okay. The good news is you also have catch-up contributions that will up your limits in that 401k, which is great. So I would take advantage of those while you can.

And that means putting more in there? Putting even more in there. Don't need to catch up? Yes, exactly. Okay. So what's your household income? Bring home is about $86,000. Before taxes is like $136,000. Awesome.

All right. So let's do 15% of that and make sure that that's the total amount you're investing over the course of the year. And that will help you guys retire with some extra dignity because I don't want you just relying on this pension because, again, it's out of your control and it performs poorly. So it's going to be great to have different buckets when it comes to retirement to be able to draw from. And what's in the nest egg currently? Do you know what this pension will amount to?

I'm not really. I'm thinking our bring home with the pension would probably be about $2,500 to $3,000 a month for him once he retires, which is not much less than what I would say probably bring home for a month would probably be between $3,000 and $4,000. Okay, so it would be a little less than he's making now. What's the house worth? Yes.

About $260,000. Okay. Yeah, we just don't know what the future holds, what expenses will be, health care costs. Are you going to want to upgrade and house later on or downgrade? We just don't know. And so I'd rather have you have a bigger pile of money, and if that means the house is paid off a year later, so be it. You guys are doing great. Proud of you.

Okay. Well, let me ask you one other thing. We have two IRAs, and we thought about taking from them and putting that down on my house. No. Boo. Okay. Let that grow. And in fact, if you...

You look at our investing strategy, it's match beats Roth beats traditional. And so if you don't have a match, let's fully fund a Roth IRA for the year and then go back to that 401k and finish out the 15% there. And that's going to help, again, add more buckets. And the Roth IRA is great because you have unlimited investing options and it's totally in your control, which is way better than that pension. So you guys are doing...

You're doing the right things, but I want you to follow those baby steps in order. Baby step four, invest 15%. Baby step six, we're paying off the home early. Once we pay off the house early, then the world is our oyster. We can increase investing far beyond that. And you guys are on track to do that in just a few years. Way to go. All right, let's take a quick one here from Emily in Philadelphia. Emily, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you? Good. What's going on? So I just have a question about a family business. I have worked for my dad for as long as I can remember. But this past year, the business was really bad. He already sold off half of it the previous year. And now this year, business is bad again. So we ended up closing for the season. We're usually just pretty...

busy in the summer. Um, so right now I'm out of work, but I am staying home with my two kids. Uh, there are two and, um, well, almost three and one. Um, so I'm trying to decide if I should go back to work or if I should just kind of like see what happens with the business. Um, or if I should just go find another job. I'm not, I'm just trying to like figure out what, where I should go next. Okay.

What's the number one priority with this? And what I mean by that is, do you need to go back to work? In other words, if the season comes back around and you don't have a job, is that going to affect you guys tremendously or could you make it without it? And is that your priority to stay home with the kids?

I love what I do, and I love working outside the home. Right now we're on baby step three, and we should be done baby step three by March. So our main goal is just, like, throw everything at, like, what we can to save up. We do expect to have another child at some point fairly soon. So I'm probably...

I don't know. I don't think I have to go back to work, but it would definitely help with our... I would work. Based on what you just told me, George, that's my quick opinion on that. Based on what you said, I think the answer is I would work. I wouldn't wait. Yeah, things are going to be tight if you decided to stay home today. What does that budget look like? So right now we have about like $2,000 that we're just like throwing into savings. So my husband brings home around like $80,000. So like we're okay, but...

like extra money would always be helpful. I would go into every dollar and make a fake budget and pretend like his is the only income and let's add that other kid in as a line item in the budget, the diapers, the expenses, and see what that would do monthly for you guys. If that's going to feel tight, if you can't then invest 15% of that income into retirement and you can't put anything away for college and you can't put anything toward...

the house, then that tells me things are too tight and we either need to find a way for him to make more money or for you to work part-time in order to close that gap. Okay. Does that help?

Yeah, that helps. I haven't ever done another job other than what I've been doing since I was a kid, so I don't really know. Yes, but you do have some skills that are transferable and experience that's transferable. So think about how the skills and experience from what you have done can be translated. Hang on the line. Let's get her the Get Clear Career Assessment, which will help as well.

Thanks so much for the call, Emily. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. My thanks to Ken Coleman, my co-host, all the folks in the booth, and you, America, will be back before you know it.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, here with my co-host, Mr. Ken Coleman, best-selling author and host of The Ken Coleman Show. And we're here for you, America, taking your calls on money and work and everything in between at 888-825-5225. Rebecca's going to kick us off in Pensacola. Rebecca, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can Ken and I help? I am fortunate to have a parent who wishes to help me out a little bit. I'm in a tough situation right now with my vehicle, and I have a parent who says, I just found out that she has a bond that she had purchased years ago with me in mind and is offering to cash that bond back

And so I can get a vehicle, a safer vehicle, a better vehicle. And while I'm very glad of that, there are going to be strings attached. And I'm wondering if there are points that I might be able to diplomatically make with her to convince her that I am mature enough to find, you know, shop and find a vehicle on my own without problems.

it being relegated to my brother who is in a, you know, a thousand miles away. She and my brother live a thousand miles away. There's an interesting family dynamic. What's the strings? The strings attached are the money is only for a vehicle only if they buy it. And I know how I drive and the things that I like to do. And I would like to have some agency in picking it. And, uh,

On the outside chance that I can find something nicer, you know, nice enough for less than the full amount of the bond, perhaps I could put some of that money away for maintenance or for a little saving. And you've told them this? You've told your mother this? I have. I just found out about it. So, no, I just asked if it had to be a vehicle, if they had to pick it, and she said yes. Yeah, that part's confusing. It sounds like she doesn't trust you.

No, she's controlling. It's always been like that. And while I am very grateful for the potential gift... How much are we talking here? Possibly up to $10,000. Okay. And are you in debt currently? What's your financial situation?

I'm not in debt. However, I am an unemployed and I'm living off my savings. I am, you know, I'm, I'm worried and struggling and trying to get a job. And, you know, I don't know what the future is going to hold for me. It's just like everybody else, but I'm really, I'm not in a good financial position. I saved and worked my butt off and put money away and I've been living off savings, but

Are the strings attached over? Like, let's just say they just gifted you a car. You had no idea about it. It was not the car you would have chosen, but it's a free car and you're going to take it. How would you feel about that? Okay. You know what? I get the point. I would just be like, hey, a free car. It's amazing. It's not my dream car, but I'm going to... Now, here's the thing. What if you saved up and you were like, you know what? I'm going to upgrade. I'm going to sell this car and upgrade to the car I really want down the line. Would they then be upset?

It's possible. I don't know. Because that's the part that worries me is that we're not done. There's more strings attached to this string. That's the part that scares me where I'd go, you know what? Thanks for the offer. It's very kind of you. I'm going to handle this one. I'm going to get a job and just save up and upgrade over time and get the cars that I want.

But otherwise, I'm taking the free car, but it sounds like there's more to this story that you're not going to share in this call. I want to dig a little bit more, can I? Because I think George is on to it. He's got great spidey sense there. My spidey senses were tingling. Yeah. When he asked you, would there be strings attached if you upgraded, meaning you sold this car they gave you down the line, and you said...

Probably, but I'm not sure. It doesn't feel like there would be a whole lot of blowback. That wouldn't be your answer if you thought it was going to be a big deal. Am I right? You may be right. Actually, I think part of my hesitation in answering was simply because, wow, I hadn't even thought of it initially.

until you started leading up to that, that, hey, take it and you can. And I was processing what you were leading to. And I was thinking, well, why couldn't I just do that? We've just seen it all on this show. And no one thinks through all the different angles and what's going to happen three years from now and all the relational issues that could pop up. And so I'm just thinking ahead going. But what if I love your scenario, George. So, Rebecca, what if you did what George said?

And now this is an upgrade responsibly. Is there any scenario by which your mother would get upset over that? I don't think so. I don't either. I'm just like, I hate to speak. I guess there's a trust issue. I don't trust them to get a good car. He isn't known for that. He has, my brother has like,

Lots of junky cars that he's going to buy and fix up and turnover and all that. And I'm like, wow, I hate to see all of that money just blown on, oh, this looks good. Let's get her this. But isn't it your call? Isn't it your call, though? No. I missed that. I think it's going to be up to him. Oh. They're a thousand miles away in a rough belt state. I'm in sunny Florida. Yeah.

where I can get a car that isn't a rust car. I've got to bring George back in here, knowing what we know. I either missed that...

But if the brother's buying the car and he's got a track record of buying garbage and she doesn't get to buy the car, that makes me nervous. Yeah, because then it's going to be her problem that she's driving around and then paying for repairs and maintenance. I wouldn't do it. If it were me, I would not take the car. I would say we can have parameters on, hey, I'm going to get this car inspected. Here's the amount I'm going to spend. I'm not going to spend it frivolously on other things. But outside of that, this is my decision. Good answer, George.

Do you think the brother would allow you to do that? The car he picks, he's got to take it to a mechanic? I don't know why this is his business. He's clearly not a car expert. Well, because he's the designated mom, his designated brother is the expert. Is that what I'm guessing? I think so. And there's a very...

There's a very codependent relationship between... It's almost like they're an unhealthy marriage. There it is. It's mother and son. And so it's like... They're both very, very controlling, including trying to control me, which, you know, we're all much past the age of that. This whole thing just feels weird. Over 10 grand.

I would tread very lightly because I think there's more where this came from down the line and he's going to be talking to mom about what you did with that car and it's going to just cause more relational drama down the line. So you just got to be prepared for that if you choose to do this. I'm out.

Yeah. I'm out. What about taxes? Rebecca, I'm out. If I were you, I wouldn't do this. This stinks. Well, you'll pay sales tax on the vehicle. Yeah. And if you're registering in Florida, it would be the Florida sales tax on vehicles. That's right. So you'd have to factor that in to the equation. But will there be...

I'm so sorry. Yeah. Would there be a tax just on her cashing this bond? Will there be a tax to me if it says P.O.D. in my name? Because I'm not I don't think that I'm actually on the bond. I saw it and I saw a picture of it. And it's in her name with her social security number only. It's my name and social security number. My social security number is not on the bond, but it just says at the bottom P.O.D. It gives Rebecca's name.

If she's the owner of the bond, that would count as income on her. And so I would look into that as well because that could count as taxable income for you. It's not going to be a deal breaker, but it's something to think about as you file taxes. I'm out. We're out.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey good folks, the back-to-school madness is upon us. It's hitting us right now. We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on. My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects. And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

Here's what I've learned. When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first. And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole. And I know that you have to do those same things too. So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments. And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at betterhelp.com.

BetterHelp is 100% online therapy staffed with licensed therapists. It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule. And therapy can help you learn positive coping skills, how to set and practice boundaries, how to become the best version of yourself, and most importantly, how to find peace in all of this chaos. In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first. Never skip therapy day.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman.

You've probably heard us talk about EveryDollar. It's our world-class budgeting app that helps you manage money the Ramsey way, and it simply works wherever you are, iOS, Android, or online. And you can start EveryDollar for free and immediately see where you stand with money. It's like a mirror for your finances. It's going to help you get organized, personalize your budget. It's going to help you stop overspending and save more money. And if you're new to EveryDollar, we'll show you a long-term financial roadmap, and we'll

which helps you track your net worth, your debt-free date, your retirement date, your baby step progress, and more. So go download the free EveryDollar app for iOS and Android, or go to everydollar.com and get started. Adam joins us up next in Omaha. Adam, welcome to the show. Hey, thank you guys so much for having me on the show. I really appreciate it. Absolutely. What's going on with you?

So to get to the point, about three weeks ago, my job was dissolved. I put that in quotes because I was laid off, and that's what they told me was the reason. And so I'm out. I listen to your show every day. I've been listening to you guys for years, first-time caller. And I've applied for lots of jobs, gotten callbacks, and now I've got an offer in, but it's lower than I was making. And so my question is,

Does it behoove you to take a lower paying job while you're still looking? Or would it be better to either like maybe get on unemployment or just use your emergency savings you do have while you're looking for a job to get some more money in? And that currently does work. Yeah, I think it depends on your financial situation is the answer to that question. Do you guys have the ability to live off? Can you live off of her income for a few more months if that's what it took?

It would be pretty tight. We'd probably have to sell some stuff. We're maybe step two and we've gone, we went from Dave from Ish to full blown

So we've gotten rid of all of our extra money and put it into all the bills that we had. How much less money would you be making if you take this current offer than what you were making? How much money less? Over $20,000 less. So the question then becomes, could you make that amount of money with a couple of part-time gigs and not take this full-time gig? That's one question.

The other question is, if you take this full-time gig that's paying you less, things aren't going to be tight, but would it look bad if you were to move on two or three months later? Is it in the same field? Is there a negative for you taking this current offer and then moving on maybe a few months later? No, and that's something that my wife had brought up was, it's outside my normal field. I'm retired IT.

military and it's going to be, it'll be working with veterans, helping them, helping veterans, but it's not in the IT field. I'd do it. So it could be something I actually love for. I would do it. I would do it. Yeah. It's here's why it's going to stabilize you financially and emotionally. It sucks. It really sucks to lose a job. I don't care what they say. It's dissolved or whatever. We know from psychology research that losing a job has the same emotional impact

as losing a loved one. It sucks. And getting a job where you're working with veterans, even though it's not in your field of training, I would guess that's going to help with your healing. These are brothers and sisters in arms, if you will. You've got a connection there. I think it's going to stabilize you just by getting back out and working again, not being at home,

And I think it's going to help the healing process. That's what I mean by stabilize you emotionally. And we know it's going to stabilize you financially because even though it's a little bit of a hit, and I mean, 20,000 is over 20,000 is a significant hit. I don't want to minimize that by saying a little. The point is, is that it's not going to hurt. You guys aren't going to be hurting. You're not going to be as tight. And I think it sets you up. And then, and then when you get back into it, cause I believe you will, um, you're not going to look like a flake at all. You're like, look, I went and helped veterans while I was looking for another it job.

I think it's a great move, George. Yeah, I'm with that. I would take this lower paying job, especially if you've got to make this decision soon. If you don't have time to go look for that better offer, I'd rather you take this one because what we've seen is people call the show and they go, well, when's the last time you're working? Well, it's been six months and I've just been looking for a job. I haven't found the right perfect one yet. And I'd rather you be working in the meantime, like Ken was saying, um,

you know, adding to the resume, having that impact, getting out of the house, making that money versus just continuing to look for this needle in a haystack. Now, what if it's, so yeah, something going from like Friday, one job Monday to the new job, but one of this, I might end up loving. And I know that I've heard Ramsey say, uh,

He talked about, well, I don't even know if you guys thought about it. If you can make more, go to help get a bigger shovel. But what if I end up loving this job and it's not the biggest shovel? We can still make it and we'll still have our margin will still be

somewhat decent to get out of debt within two years. The key here is to not slow down your gazelle intensity. And so if that means picking up an extra side job on top of that to get out of debt by your debt-free date you guys had in mind, that's fine by me. I agree with George. What I would tell you is if you love this veteran's job, you know what you do? You go get yourself a freelance tech job, IT, because you're good at it.

You're freelance. Yeah, I've been doing it for 25 years. You're very good at it, very connected. So, yeah, I think George is absolutely right. I just pivot and I go, I stay in the veteran's job, serving veterans. I love it. And I'm going to make some money in IT on the side and get out of debt and get the emergency fund funded. And I think that's a no-brainer. And then once you're out of debt and you're in a better place financially, you get to make the call. Do I drop the side job? Do I, you know, is this enough to keep our bills going and help us accomplish our goals? So thanks for the call.

All right, let's go to Jordan in Irvine, California. Jordan, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely. How can we help? So wanting to know if it makes sense to sell our current home in California, which we still have a mortgage balance of about $650,000, use that equity that we've gotten from the appreciation and buy a house in cash out of state and have zero debt,

Or does it make sense if we try to keep the California house, rent it out, and then take out a second mortgage loan for a new home that we'd potentially be moving to and living in? Well, I'll tell you which one sounds more stressful.

I can probably guess, yeah. Double mortgage, trying to be a landlord, long distance, all of that is going to not really give you a smooth move. And when you land, you're not going to have as much peace as you would if you had...

had no payments in the world and you got to then save up. And if you wanted to buy an investment property in your new location, you can do that because you don't have a mortgage payment. And so that would be the time to do that. But if you said, hey, I want to buy two houses at once, we'd go, gosh, that's crazy. And so that's essentially what we're doing here. And I understand that we can get starry-eyed at the numbers of, well, I could rent it for $3,000. I'd more than pay for the mortgage. It sounds great on paper, but the paper doesn't reflect reality of-

Sure. And I assume even if we look to have one of the property management companies where they take 10% of the monthly rent, still going to have the headache, still not worth it. Is that your opinion? Yeah.

Yeah. And I don't think there's been a call on the show where we said, yeah, go ahead and keep it. Just be a long distance landlord in almost every case. And if we could go back in time, I'd tell you don't do investment property until you can pay cash and your primary home is paid off. And so this helps you sort of have a fresh start. You're going to have a home paid for in cash. That's incredible. What a great way to kick off this move that you guys are making. And I don't think you're going to look back with regret at the money we could have made on the rental.

Sure. No, that always sounded makes sense. One man's opinion. Ken, do you think anything different here? I know Ken, he loves, he's like, I don't sell it. Don't sell it. Yeah, I don't disagree with you. Okay. I think you're absolutely spot on here. I've just seen too many where people said, we kept it as a rental. We thought it was going to work out. I thought your metaphor was strong where you just said, we'd never tell you to buy two houses. And I think financially it's the same thing. I thought, what do I add to that? Magnum opus. You dropped it and I went, okay.

I just wanted to make sure. No, I think you're right. You look pensive over there like, oh boy. I was thinking through it. I was thinking through the motivations behind all of it. Patience is what I was thinking, but I think the financial advice is great. I would agree with you 100%. Wealth is patience. I'm more of a tortoise, Ken, and some people find that advice controversial these days. You know what tortoises are? Financially risky. That's true. They're steady. But they make it. They always make it eventually. You look like a tortoise in that shirt, by the way. I don't know if that's a compliment, but I'll take it. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Kamel, joined by my friend Ken Coleman. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. It's a free call, and you can make it if you so choose. If you can get through to our friend Christian, screen the phone calls, he would happily let you through, and we can try to help with whatever situation you've got going on. Mike is in Phoenix up next. Mike, welcome to the show. Hello, how are you doing? Doing pretty well. How are you?

I'm doing good. Thanks for taking the call. I like listening to you guys, and I'm surprised I got a call in or was able to get accepted. So that's cool. Welcome. Yeah, thank you. So throughout my life, I've been a pretty good saver. I followed Dave Ramsey's path and was at Baby Step 4, but currently it's not looking good. I purchased a house last year.

And I found out that it's filled with mold and it's pretty bad as far as options. So right now, my family, we're looking at possibly having to walk away from the home just because kind of ran out of options.

And just, you know, I love listening to you guys all the time, so I just figured, you know what, maybe they might have some advice on maybe some next steps to take. What are your current walk-away options? What does that look like? Short sale. Oh, man.

Just because, you know, foreclosure would be an option too, but short sale is definitely a better option. How much damage is it? Are you getting quotes on what it would take to remediate or fix it? That's correct. Yes, it's pretty extensive. I'd be so underneath, you know, upside down in the house if I were to do the repairs. Is it everywhere? Tell me, paint the picture.

Yeah, it is everywhere. We do suspect that there was fraudulent activities going on in the home prior. It was, you know, it was hidden pretty good. Not pretty good, actually hidden really well. And you've got a professional mold inspection already done? Correct, and a hygienist.

And, you know, I did all the proper precautions pre-purchasing the home. And the home inspector found a minor spot, you know, in an area that wasn't even...

in that general vicinity. So, you know, that's kind of, you know, sometimes you'll find that with purchases. So, you know, you figured, all right, you know, that's not, you know, we could, we could deal with that. But then after moving in the house within just a few weeks and things started to show up, you know, that weren't in the area of concern and just started, you know,

Getting real concerned. So at that point, you know, had a mold remediation company come out and do an invasive inspection just because home inspections are non-invasive. Yeah. As I learned, you know. So you're telling me, though, the seller knowingly concealed this mold problem and provided false information. That's what we're suspecting. If that's the case, I would be going to a real estate attorney. I think you've got, you could have a case here. What did they say?

We've already gone down that path. And then the other thing is just my concerns. Like I want to speak with you guys in regards to, you know, more information. I've just been kind of nervous just because there is a process that I have gone, you know, down some of the routes that you just discussed. So that's one of the things, you know, that, you know,

I don't want to say the wrong thing or, you know what I mean? Sure. I mean, I don't think you have any recourse here except legal recourse. Right. I'd rather you fight this thing. And in the meantime, you're going to have to find a different living situation. I wouldn't be living in that house with my family.

Right. Yeah. But I'd be looking at all the options and seeing your legal rights are going to be the big piece of this equation to see if they'll, you know, compensate to basically gut this home and do the mold remediation. Right. And.

Yeah, just for buyers, you know, I really am. I'm like, I'm a nervous buyer now. Like I would, buying the next home is going to, it's so nerve wracking. Well, yeah, you've got some trauma now. Well, let me say this. I ran into a situation with our current home.

And it was a crazy situation. We were just doing some basic remodeling and found a wall with a good amount of mold on it. And it was coming from an area off of the roof that had not been flashed properly.

And so once we figured it out where it was coming from, then we're able to address the situation. And it costs a lot of money. I mean, nowhere near what you're dealing with. But speaking to you moving forward, I mean, a really good inspector and you're checking for mold comes from water. So where was the water coming from? And and you've got some experience now.

Oh, yeah, and it's from fraudulent activities, too, that we suspect that it's not a natural experience that homes go through. What does that mean? No, we don't know what you mean. Are they spraying the walls on purpose? I don't understand what that means. So as far as what we suspect is growing problems,

Okay. So they have, it's not a greenhouse, but they were treating it like a greenhouse and extra moisture to grow illegal. Okay. There you go. That's the worst aspect. All right then. So my friend, let's focus on the future here. All right. I need the future. Yeah. Let me tell you something. You have all the evidence in the world from these remediation companies that there is mold all over the place. You absolutely have got to, you find the right lawyer, right?

who sees the basic evidence as we've heard it, and they get rewarded when you get rewarded, I would absolutely get a bulldog on this and fight it. A lot of what I've been learning is not pro bono.

too that's the other thing nobody said pro bono do you have money to pay for a lawyer personal injury lawyers get paid on the back end of situations and so i'm guarantee you can find a lawyer who goes we got something here and i'm and i'm i'm gonna i'm gonna take these clowns to the bank and and i'll get paid nicely yeah you sound like a wounded wounded dog and i get it oh yeah but listen but like you you gotta fight for this i do

You don't have any other option. Don't take it laying down. You were a victim here. Go find a lawyer who sees it and is going to go to the mat for you. Yeah, definitely. So what's the total mold remediation cost? Oh, that's hefty. We're looking at about three, over three. That's just remediation. That's not rebuild. Over $300,000? Yeah. Yeah. We're not going to do that.

What's the house worth? I don't know if I believe that. 1.1. It's worth 1.1. It's a big place? Yeah. And it's totally covered in mold. They found it in every wall. And infested. Oh, gosh. So they're basically rebuilding this house from scratch, it sounds like. Like bulldozer time. Golly. Yeah, I would fight this. This is big enough that it's not a, eh, it's a stupid tax. We're just going to pay it. There's no way. Do you know the previous owners?

Unfortunately, yeah. Are they reputable people out there in the community and this was a side thing? Yeah, probably not. They're not? Probably not. I wouldn't. Right. Yeah, you know what I mean? Well, but I mean, that's my point is if we pursue suing them, can they even come up with it? Exactly. That's what I'm dealing with too. What I've heard is that you put a lien on the home.

And as you guys know, being well-versed in finances and mortgages and homes and such, the mortgage company gets first.

They're getting paid before you do, man. That is it. Mike, Mike, Mike, I'm so sorry you're going through this, man. This is just a bummer all around. We are not lawyers, but I hope you find a bulldog and you fight this thing and you call us back with some good news, man. We are wishing the best for you in this mold situation. This is The Ramsey Show. ♪ music playing ♪

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Ken Coleman. We got a lot of fun stuff happening in the Ramsey Solutions store, including a new book from Jade Warshaw. It's a quick read called Money's Not a Math Problem. It comes out December 5th, and you can pre-order today for just $10. You'll also get access to a live online Q&A with Jade. On top of that, our friend Rachel Cruz has released a new book,

a wonderful kids book that is beautifully illustrated. It's called I'm Glad for What I Have. That's also available for pre-order now. And the other things you can get on there is the new Goal Planner for 2024, featuring some of our Ramsey personality friends. And of course, we've got a Cyber Monday sale being extended to...

Because we want to make sure you guys can get all your shopping done. And we've got our best deals of the year happening at ramseysolutions.com. You'll also find my new book, Breaking Free from Broke, on there. Questions for Humans, Conversation Cards. There's just something for everyone. And so go check it out and stock up for the year. I know a lot of you love to give out the Total Money Makeover as gifts.

I do that like, you know, I had a pest control guy over. We start talking about finances, and I always have him on hand to go, hey, here's a book. Is that right? This book changed my life. I hope it helps. Hey, you know, shameless plug here. Don't forget your co-hosts, you know. You're starting out the new year. That's right. You're thinking about, hey, I want to do work. I finally want to pursue this work that I love. I want to chase the dream.

From Paycheck to Purpose, the Get Clear Career Assessment. Don't forget those products, George. And many of the audiobooks are on sale for as low as $5. Is that right? $5? As low as. I'm not making any money on that. Dave, what's he doing? Listen, I don't call the shots, Ken. I just report the facts. That's fine. So RamseySolutions.com slash store is the place to go. Max is up next in Chicago, Illinois. Max, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Good afternoon, George. Ken, how are you guys? Doing well. Good. How are you?

Not too bad. What's going on? So my question is, and I called in about three years ago, and Dave just kind of hammered me, and I never really had an answer to my question, but I'm back in a similar situation. Okay. Basically, how do you handle financing the retention of a lawyer and obviously ongoing fees as you –

go through, you know, whatever it was. Originally it was a divorce. Now I'm going through, you know, fighting over my kids. So just how do you maintain that? I mean, I just blew through my, what I had saved as my emergency fund on the first lawyer. And it's like, now you're back to zero again. And it's like, where do you go from there? I mean, they obviously wanted it immediately. How much have you spent so far on legal fees?

So the divorce cost me 60. So I paid that off back to no debt, no credit cards. And that's how I got through that one was I ended up getting two credit cards, paid them off, got back to zero, had eight grand saved, heading towards my 25, about 20 grand in emergency fund that I needed. And that immediately was gone. So I've just dropped about another 11 going into a second lawyer now since June.

And is this custody battle soon to be over? What's the timeline look like? I mean, is it just never ending? There's not. And that's the, I guess, issue with the system is they tell you that it's over, but then anybody can go back to court and, you know, file fees or whatever and paperwork. And then it just obviously just compounds time over time. Yeah.

I mean, the divorce is bad enough, but when you're fighting over your kids, it's completely different. Now, how is your ex-partner dealing with all the legal fees? Because this seems never-ending. Are they just trying to get you to where you give up because of the fees? Yeah, and basically, I think hers are just being paid for by somebody else, so I don't think it's an issue for her. So obviously, it's an issue for me. So what are the ongoing legal fees per month?

So initial, my first retainer was $7,500, which, like I said, about wiped out what I had saved. And then obviously, you know, working through that, he's higher than normal, but became highly recommended. Had him since June. Just really wasn't doing much for me. So went through that, just hired another one. And this guy was $3,500 retainer. And then basically once you get through that, you're getting hit with a $3,500 every time you go through it. So we're talking $3,500 a month?

And it depends. I mean, like the $7,500 lasted five. So again, it depends what you're doing, how many times you're going to court, how much paperwork, how much contact you have with your lawyer, every phone call, every email. I'm just trying to find an average here so we can figure out how much you need every month in order to cover this and how long you can go for at this point. And that's, I guess, the hardest thing is you don't know because when I looked back at the divorce...

There's no way to track it because some months it was like very little. And then other months as you're getting, you know, things sent in from the other side and you're having to respond to them and documentation and putting things together and meeting with your lawyer. Then the next month is, you know, you've doubled what you spent the first month. So it's just, it's almost impossible to track. Well, is there an end in sight? Is there like a court date where we got the judge and, you know, is there some end in sight on this as to when this gets resolved?

I mean, at this point, it's gone on six months. We just extended it into almost January. And that's the other part of it is— I think the lawyers need to have a come-to-Jesus meeting and go, guys, we've got to come to a resolution here. And obviously the downside is that she's supposed to give up, right? And it's my kid. Or just find some compromise. It may not be, hey, one person got it all. What's the custody right now?

So we settled after the divorce was settled at 55, 45. Okay. And no child support. She made more than I did. No issue. So, you know, lead three years forward, I'm making more than she is. And she wants full custody and child support. So basically I would not see my kids at all. Now, listen, neither one of us are saying you don't fight for your kids. I'm not saying that. What I am saying is this kick in the can down the road. I think you've got some good instinct on this. She's trying to bleed you out.

And so we stop that. So we fight that. We go, no, we're not doing this. We're not kicking it to January. Why do we need to push it to January?

You know, it's, this is the deal. This is what the previous settlement is. I would be saying to your lawyer, to her lawyer, like, we're not doing this. Let's get in front of a judge. The judge decides anyway. We have been three times. That's part of the issue is that they just, okay, we're going to follow up and then, Hey, it can't be 20 days later. It's a month and a half later. And you know, this is when they got time. So the next hearing. So I, yeah, trust me. So the next hearing is in January.

Yeah, there'll be one that I will need to go to is in December, but it'll end up in January. Well, here's, all right. So I don't want to get down this rabbit hole, but I think you got to fight. And I think George is right. You know, you got to go. I have at least a ballpark. And I think you tell your lawyer, look, this is what I can do. This is realistic.

I don't need to, you know, we don't have to respond to everything. If the next thing in front of the judge is then, then that's what we do. Like at some point you've got to take control of this as much as you can. And financially you got to go work. Yeah. You might need to go get an extra job just to cover these fees, but do not go into debt, especially compounding month over month to try to resolve this for the next year. That's not a solution. So how much do you make?

It'll be about $120 this year. Okay. So I would just factor this into the budget, take the average of what you've been paying, maybe you just divide it out over how many months you've had a lawyer, and really need to be budgeting about $1,500. That might mean I need to cut expenses. That might mean I need to go get an extra job in order to cover this through January. But be honest with your lawyer and say, that's it. After January, I'm tapped out, man. We've got to come to a resolution here.

I know that it's easy to say from the desk, but we also can't just kick this another six months because you're going to be 60 grand in debt trying to pay this off for the next three years. Again, yeah, I follow you. So I wish we had a better answer, Max. It stinks. There's not really a beautiful magic scenario we can just lay out here that solves all of this. This is just messy, and this is what it looks like when marriage becomes a business transaction and things get rough. You know what it irritates me, George? What?

The lawyers, they ought to go before the judge and go, hey, judge, we know you're the final say on this. What do you need from us? This gentleman can't keep doing this. At some point, the judge has got to have some stinking common sense and go, we're not going to break somebody financially over a custody battle. Doesn't seem like this is hairy enough.

to warrant all this garbage. No, sir. Come on. Where's our common decency? I'm just glad I'm not a lawyer, Ken. I think we're in the right field. Although you would have made a great lawyer in another life. It's not too late, Ken. It's not too late. Things don't go well for you here. There's still time. Hey, that puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. I'm George Camel. He's Ken Coleman. We'll be back.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined by the one and only Ken Coleman. And we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. You call us up. We will give you our best wisdom on your situation regarding work and money.

Megan kicks us off in Kansas City. Megan, welcome to the show. Megan, are you with us? Hey. Yeah. There she is. What's going on?

So my husband spends on average about $1,000 a month at gas stations for snacks, drinks. A majority of that, though, is for chewing tobacco. And my question is, how can I help him become...

How can I help him work towards becoming more financially responsible so that we're not worrying how we're going to make it till the end of the month with bills and other priorities? How long has this been going on for? It's been going on for a few years. It has gotten worse, though, within the last year or so. Is he using more chewing tobacco? What do you think the problem is there?

Definitely more chewing tobacco. He goes through maybe two to three cans a day, and that can be pretty pricey. And it hurts us financially, as you could probably imagine. I assume you've had conversations with him about this. How do those go?

Yes. Um, they, they don't go very well. It usually starts an argument. Um, he, uh, he has tried to quit multiple times through the last several years. Um, we've done medical, we've, we've, we've spoken to doctors. Um, he's put, been put on prescriptions. He's tried the patches, everything. Um, he's tried quitting cold Turkey and just nothing has worked. And, um,

Especially since we now have a family, I really thought that that would help out in getting him to quit, but it hasn't. So why did the patches not work? If it's given him the same, unless he just, the patches can't possibly give what three cans a day is given him. Yeah. I think it's just, it all boils down to, you know, deep down he really doesn't want to quit. No, he loves it. He likes it.

Yeah, and I just can't really find anything that gives him that push to make that change. Is it relaxing to him? What is the benefit? Is it a buzz that chills him out? What's going on? Well, he does have ADD, so I think it just chills him out, but also it's become such a habit. And I think it's just that buzz maybe.

Well, and I wonder if there's not something else below the surface, because what doctors are trying to treat, they can't treat. Feels like this is something in his soul, in his heart. That's what I think. Is that true? No, I agree with you. What does he do for work? He is an HVAC technician. Yeah. Does he like his job? Oh, yes, very much so. Yeah. This is deeper than this. This is deeper. So here's the deal.

We've got to get that part figured out or any financial advice or any conversational or communication advice we give you is largely going to fall on deaf ears because he's defensive now. However, I do think there's a money piece to it, but I think it has to be whatever's going on that is requiring you to medicate yourself this way is going to break us. That's the depth of this. And so we've got to get to that.

And then the financial piece will take care of itself because he doesn't have to medicate. Yes. So in the meantime, since we can't solve that, George, I want to know what George thinks. I think this is it. So I'm going to come back to this in a second. I want to come back to the conversation of what she might say. But I want to bring in the financial. In this case, giving her advice. This is such a sensitive issue that's got a lot of depth to it.

Could she get him on board with, all right, you got to go get a side hustle to the tune of $1,000 a month. You're going to cover this addiction.

to cover this medication. I think that's a fair ask. What do you think, George? Yeah. I mean, with addiction, it's not as simple as saying, hey, we're going to cut them off. Yeah. And so I still think I'm not a medical professional. I think cold turkey is the way to go. And I think it starts with this conversation of you going, listen, this is going to deteriorate your health. I want you around to see our kids grow up.

I want us to actually hit our financial goals. It's derailing us financially for you to be spending this way. And by the way, gas stations are one of the worst places to buy all of this stuff. It's the highest cost. And so if he's going to do this, he's got to be smarter about it than just impulsively stopping by the gas station every four hours. And so he's got to find a way to curb the spending, even if it's, hey, we're cutting back. No more food, snacks, drinks, all this stuff. Yeah, I think that's the key.

You have to say, babe, I'm worried about this. And you're going to have to get more involved in the finances. Do you guys have combined bank accounts? No, and because of that reason, yeah. And I know that's something I've struggled with. I've taken control somewhat of his bank account just so that I can monitor his spending. And every month it's the same thing when we sit down and have that talk. Like, hey, you're spending way too much, and it just –

Is this on a credit card, a debit card? Debit. Okay. And so he's got the money, but it's his income, and he's just spending down his account every month doing this. Yes, and we've even tried with having him send me a certain percentage of his paychecks that I would then put into savings or would go towards bills for that month. I think you need to tell him, listen, I didn't sign up to be married to a child that I have to monitor and babysit.

You need to care about this family more than you care about your chewing tobacco habit. And I need you to show me that. And if you guys need to go to counseling to deal with the marital issues beneath this, I think if you don't, it's going to cause more resentment. And this marriage isn't going to survive this. George is right. Because this is going to just compound every month for the next, what, another three years of this? Well, you're not going to solve it. You can't solve it.

He has to understand how afraid you are, how exhausted you are. And how it's affecting you guys. How it's affecting your marriage and what that's going to have an impact on the rest of his life. And then he's going to have to get to the bottom of what's going on with him, which is causing the medication of the tobacco. And then you guys have to fix what's already been in some ways bruised and broken with you two.

All of that has to happen or this spending isn't going to stop. Yeah, even if we go, hey, tell them to get in bulk at Walmart. Well, that might be a Band-Aid that might save us $200 a month, but it doesn't solve the real problem here. No, I agree. I'm sorry you're going through this, Megan. Again, I wish we had a magic answer for you. I think it's a come-to-Jesus meeting. I really do. Yes, I agree.

And I know addiction is one of the most difficult things a person can deal with. And I encourage him to call Dr. John Deloney's show to walk through that piece of it. And if he's willing to call, he's really serious about this. We can get him on the line with our friend, Dr. John, to help him work through that. But that's the only answer to this money problem is him overcoming this addiction. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by my good friend Ken Coleman. The number to call is 888-825-5225. Let's keep the calls rolling. We're headed to Manchester, New Hampshire, up next with our friend Jean. Jean, what's going on? Oh, not much. Well, something's going on, Jean. Tell us about it. I'll tell you what's going on, Jean. Before we get to your question, how many presidential candidates have you seen in the last six months in Manchester?

You know, I'm just going to stay away from all of that and be happy at home. Smart. Smart woman. But you've seen some, yes? Yeah. Yeah. You get that. It's first in the, you got Iowa, New Hampshire, and they're just- That's the big one. They're all stopping by. All the candidates are just everywhere in those states. Sorry, Gene. But Gene, she doesn't want any of it. She wants no part of it. Let's talk money instead of politics.

Oh, yeah. What's going on? I've been watching the Ramsey show. We paid off all of our credit cards, chopped them all up, paid off our cars, bought my son a car in cash. Wow. You guys are doing good for us. You're doing the good work. Look at you. We sat back and relaxed here at the desk. We're proud of you.

Awesome. So I, in 2017, we refinanced our house in order to purchase a commercial property for our business. And our home at the time, at this time, we're making four times the monthly payment. So we're paying that off. Hopefully in the next couple of years, it has 61,000 left on it, but we're kind of looking at like,

At the end of the year, we can invest in our IRA, but I mean, I'm 47. So it's kind of like, do I invest in the IRA or just put all that money down on that home loan? Because the home loan is at the beginning. I mean, it's only six years old. So I don't know if I should. What is the track to pay this house off?

Um, hopefully within two years, cause we're making four times our monthly house payment every month. Awesome. But you're not investing. Um, we did last year, we put in the maximum for our IRAs, both of us for last year, and we were able to do it for the prior year. Is that the only thing you're doing is the IRAs?

Yes. You should look into, so you guys are, are you self-employed? Is it just you two or is there more people? Yes, we both, we are, we both are self-employed. We both own the business. Okay, and it's just you two? Yep. Okay, I would look into better retirement options through your business, like a solo 401k and a SEP IRA. Okay.

And with that solo 401k, it's going to allow you to invest way more than those IRA limits. So I just want to throw two options out there to look into. You can contact one of our SmartVestor pros on our website through our SmartVestor program, and they can navigate which option is the right one for you based on your specific business. But I think that's going to really help you guys retire with dignity versus just the IRA.

I looked into solo 401k and we have like one employee. So it's not actually like, I don't think we can do that. But anyways, I will look back into that definitely. So the SEP may be an option still. I hadn't heard that. So yeah, check that out. So that's that side. Now, what are the other debt you have, other debts you have outside of the mortgage? We have nothing. We have my house, my

which we owe $61,000. And then the commercial property has two loans on the commercial property. They made a split like half SBA loan. So the SBA has $74,000, but we can't pay that off until 2027. And then we have a regular, oh yeah, this is a stupid move. I wasn't listening to you guys then. Our

Our $96,000 loan for the commercial property actually is an adjustable rate. And my dad has been freaking out about that.

Okay. Why is your dad freaking out? What does he have to do with it? Because he also listens to you guys. So he's like, you should not have an adjustable rate loan. And I'm like, yeah, well, that was 2017. Well, I would still be investing 15% and I would be tackling, I'm going to couch this all in kind of this weird baby step six real estate pay down.

So I would be, you know, that might slow you down on the house payoff, but it's also going to help you have a bigger nest egg, you know, 15, 20 years from now. Keep doing the retirement at the same time. What's your household income that you're taking home every year from this business? $72,000. Okay. And that's between the both of you? Combined. That's what you're... Yeah, combined. That's gross. Yes. I would try to find a way to make more through this business.

We are. Okay. That's equivalent to each of you making 36K, which you could go do that in a retail job. And so I want this business making more money or else we need to go find something else to do to where we can both be making 75K. Right. So that's just a goal for you guys to set as you look forward to the next year. If we can't ramp this business up and scale it, we may have to look at other options.

Perfect. So thanks so much, Jean. You guys are on track. We just got to get rid of all this debt. And, you know, we've all made money mistakes. Sometimes they have a lot of zeros on the end and sometimes they have an adjustable rate. That sucks. All right. Jake is in Salt Lake City up next. Jake, what's your question?

Hey, thanks for taking my call, you guys. Sure. So I am 23. My wife is 24. And we have a family investment opportunity in an uncle's company. And I have me and two brothers and my parents who are going in on this investment. My question is essentially what's the safest way to pull together money as a family that is also legal so we can pay taxes on it the right way and nothing will come back to bite us?

What do you mean by that? You're pooling the money together. So walk me through an example of what this investment would look like. Yeah. My uncle has done this before. He owns six or seven multimillion dollar companies. And essentially he's reached out and given every family 1% that they can buy into this. It's valued at 2.5 million right now. So each family can buy in 25,000.

I want to put in $10,000. My parents are going to do $10,000 as well, I believe. And then I have a brother who's doing $3,000 and $2,000 respectively. Then in five to 10 years when the company is worth more and we decide to pull out our share, we'll just redistribute proportionally, if that makes sense. And how guaranteed is this return?

I mean, I'm comfortable losing 10,000. I wanted to do 25, like my own percent, but that's just with what I'm, that's what I'm comfortable losing. It's pretty sure though, my uncle's putting all of his kids' trust funds into it. He's done this thing before. And I think in past days he had like a 50, 50 times return. So it was really good. This one's estimated to be like a hundred to 300 times ROI. Wow.

It could be really good. And with money that big... You're telling me he's going to scale this $2.5 million company 300x? He works in medical plastics, and he has some out-of-country businesses as well that are vertically integrated. This is like the last key piece that needs to be vertically integrated before stuff can like...

He's already blown up his companies in the past, but this is going to make it just that much easier. My only hesitation is when something sounds too good to be true, it is. And so that's my only, now you could be saying all the right things and you could 300 extra money and I hope that for you, but I just walk into this with some hesitation when it's family and it's an investment opportunity. Those words rarely end up going well for the person who's doing the investing.

This is why I'm trying to be so careful. I'm fairly conservative. I'm skeptical. That's all. You called us. What's your gut, Jake? You know, my problem as far as, you know, where I'm learning about this stuff, I really want to do this. I want to give it a shot. I'm not worried about the investment. Where my question actually is, is there a safe way to pull together money so that, say, there is a return. Maybe it's not 100 times whatever. If there's any return...

It's not all in somebody's hands and we're just, you know, writing on good intention.

then it's really the issue of you've got some concerns. You've got some fears that need to be addressed. And the way you do that is talk about it and get it all handled in writing. And work with professionals all the way around. No handshake agreements here. But I wish you the best, man. And obviously you're doing this with cash. Make sure you're debt-free with an emergency fund before you start meddling with this. And that's fun money.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Ken Coleman. If you're a fan of The Ramsey Show, be sure to check out all of the shows on The Ramsey Network, including The Ken Coleman Show, Smart Money Happy Hour that I co-host with our friend Rachel Cruz, the George Camel channel on YouTube and Spotify. You can watch it over there as well. Dr. John Deloney Show, Rachel Cruz Show. We got something for everyone, Ken. Entree Leadership. That's right. By the way, there's a rumor that

that I may be joining you and Rachel on Smart Money Happy Hour. Are you starting the rumor right now? Well, you told me that you would like to have me over there and how fun it would be. So maybe I'm starting a rumor. That's a very different sentence. I would like to have you.

I have no jurisdiction, Ken. I know you do not. I got no pull. I get it. So maybe I've accidentally started it. So I want to go ahead and retract that because you're my friend and I don't want to force that. Well, I'll be honest. We had a special guest on that will be – the episode will be released soon, and it's Sharon Ramsey. See? So she trumped you somehow. Well, of course she should. I don't know that there are many people that are more of a favorite than me.

than Sharon Ramsey for me. She is a great lady. That'll be very fun. It was a fun episode. Highly edited. There was a lot of things that didn't make the cut. We'll just put it that way, Ken. I guess I could just invite you and Rachel out for drinks. If you can get the queen on the podcast or a court jester, who are you going to choose? The queen. The queen. Well put. The court jester will make the cut. I resemble that remark. I can see it. Yeah. I like that. That's just all I'm looking for is an excuse to have a beverage with you and Rachel. We'd love to have you as soon as Rachel allows it.

That's the one you got to get through. We'll get there. Good luck with that. But if you like any of the shows, including The Ramsey Show, please consider subscribing, leaving a review wherever you're listening, sharing it with a friend, all of that. That's our marketing plan right there. There it is. Cats out of the bag. And we so appreciate all of you who listen every week, who send us messages, who post about it, who leave the reviews, who subscribe. It means the world to us and it helps the algorithm show it to more people so we can have more impact out there. Thank you.

All right, Ken, let's get back to the phones. Julia is waiting with bated breath in Austin, Texas. Julia, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you guys so much for answering. Absolutely. How can Ken and I help?

Yeah, so I'm 25. My husband is 30. I have a past of managing finances terribly or really just like not managing finances at all. My husband is a financial advisor. Thank God for that one. God really pulled through for me on that. And he has really just taken over everything when it comes to managing our finances and money. And I don't even look at our account and I don't want to. I just feel like it's best for me to stay out of it given my past.

Do I need to be more involved? 100%, yes, you'd need to be more involved. Because what's going to happen inevitably is you are going to be resentful at some point

when you go, what? I didn't know. And he goes, well, I mean, I managed the money. You said you didn't want anything to do with it. And so you need to have a vote. Even if you're not the financially astute one where you go, I don't want to look at the spreadsheet. That's fine. But you have to have a vote. You have to know what we're doing with our money every single month because you're spending too, right? Yeah. So that tells me we're not on a budget. So we're not really managing our money. He's just handling the in and outs of the account.

Yeah, and I do think that

there is a sense of anxiety that it causes him that I could contribute to alleviating if I did have these conversations with him because he is, it's something he's passionate about too. Um, so I don't know if you have any advice on how to get past my anxiety of like, I don't like my childhood was mom and dad hiding things that they bought from each other when they're walking in the door. Like our mom would be like, don't tell dad about the things in the backseat. I'll come get them in at three o'clock in the morning. So I just have this weird relationship with,

And I went through FPU and did that. But it just feels better to me that I don't even have to think about it, which might just be, you know, I don't know, obviously not what's best. But I don't know how to get over that fear. I can tell you how. You actually need to go get some counseling on that very issue. You have trauma over this. That's what this is. This sounds very normal to me for someone who has gone through what you went through.

You would just rather not, you want to avoid it completely because you feel like if I avoid it, then I can't be hurt by it. And I can't see my past come to fruition in my own life. That's what this is. You nailed it. You diagnosed it beautifully. And I think, honestly, you just need to go get with a great therapist and talk through this stuff.

This is a wound that probably has not healed yet. And you see money as this point of contention instead of as a tool that can help you guys live your best financial life. And that takes a huge shift. And one way to do that, Julia, you tell me, what is the opposite of hiding it all and not talking about it? Being open and having good communication and having a good marriage. Do you guys have that? There it is.

Yeah. Forget about money. Do you guys have an open communication that like the relationship is very open minded when we talk to each other and we're able to talk about parenting or maybe religion or whatever? Do you have that in other areas? Absolutely. Yeah. Then you can have it with money. In fact, you and this is not an attack. This is this is just kind of an embrace of what you've already said. You are the reason you can't have the conversation about money. If you can have it about other things, then this is just a fear of

And it's a block and it's got trauma attached to it. So you got to heal from the trauma. Once you heal from the trauma, you'll be able to do what George is talking about because you're doing it in other areas. Would you recommend, I know you guys recommended therapy, would you recommend us doing it together? Yes. So there's like an understanding or just myself? I think it'd be very helpful for him to understand where you are coming from because it's going to give him tools that he can use to help you with this. Yeah.

Either one is great. But for him to sit in on the session and watch you do the hard work on this, the empathy he's going to have. And he's probably going to start over communicating to make sure that you're in the loop and that you have a vote and that you have a say. And part of that is doing a monthly budget and doing maybe a weekly budget meeting with him. And I'm going to gift you one year of every dollar premium to help with that.

And here's your next goal is to go, we're going to make a budget and he might help you create that. But you're going to have a vote and you're going to have total visibility into what is our family doing with money? How much are we spending on groceries? How much do we plan to spend? How much do we actually spend? What are we putting into investments? Where is that being invested? Can you explain that to me? Start being really curious and asking good questions.

And set some goals for yourself. Have a self-care line item for Julia where she gets to get her nails done every month and everything's out there on the table. And that's going to help you see, oh, the boogeyman is really not that scary. I just needed to put the flashlight under the bed and take a look. Mm-hmm.

So the other thing you can do is sign up. We've got a free webinar tomorrow with our friend Jade Warshaw, Wednesday, November 29th, 1230 Eastern Time, 1130 Central Time. It's about an hour long, and she's going to walk you through how to set up your very first every dollar budget, how to break this paycheck to paycheck cycle so many people find themselves in. And I think it's going to give you some confidence in what it looks like to pay attention to money and not be afraid of it.

Awesome. That's great. Thank you. One last question. What do you guys recommend? What kind of therapist would I seek out? Would...

I just type in, like, is there such thing as a financial therapist or would it just be like family counseling to get past it? There's financial coaching, but I think what Ken is saying is you need a traditional counselor, traditional therapist. Our friends at BetterHelp are a great start. You can do this remotely online. Start with him at home in the living room and do this. So that's a great start. And then if you want to pursue someone locally, you can also do that.

Okay. Awesome. Thank you guys so much. Absolutely, Julia. We're rooting for you. Yeah, you're going to do great. She's going to win. 100%. Well, the fact that she's self-aware and wanting to grow in this area and going, I feel like I should, and here's the root issue, and I'm willing to deal with it, that's everything. Well, I mean, she told us pretty much the source of the trauma. Yeah. And I think a great therapist is going to be able to go, let's dig into that and figure that out. And I love the fact that they've already got

great marriage where they're talking about everything else and once she gets over that pain, you know. I think he's going to be excited that she wants to talk about money. Sounds like he's very passionate about it. Oh yeah, he does it for a living. He's going, you want to talk about budgeting? Absolutely. Let's go. Right. So I didn't give you the website. The website to go to to sign up for that free webinar with our friend Jade Warshaw is everydollar.com slash budget.

budgeting. It's completely free. It's Wednesday, November 29th, 1230 p.m. Eastern Time, 1130 Central Time over the lunch break there. And it's going to be super helpful to visually see every dollar, see how it can create margin to help you accomplish all of your goals, whether you're paycheck to paycheck or whether you're baby step seven.

It's all there, including some of the awesome premium features our team has been working on. So go check that out, everydollar.com slash budgeting. It's one of the best ways to curb anxiety with money because just paying attention to it gives you a sense of confidence and control that nothing else can do. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show, our scripture of the day, James 1.12.

Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him. Claude Pepper said, Life is like riding a bicycle. You don't fall off unless you stop pedaling.

Claude. There we go. Do we know who Claude Pepper is? No idea. Probably someone very famous. I'm going to get roasted in the comments every once in a while. Well, see, I don't want to eat up any time, but I'm going to look up Claude really fast. I wish President Biden had read that because that must have been what happened when he fell off that bike. Must have stopped pedaling. Nice. It's a classic.

So Claude Pepper was an American politician of the Democratic Party. There you go. That tracks. And I guess he was a congressman from 1963. So anyway, thank you, Claude. There we go. They pulled up the Wikipedia for us, Ken. What if my name was Claude Coleman? Eh, I'd buy it.

You look like a Claude, and I don't mean that in a kind way. I know you don't. I didn't take it that way. But you, let's see, folks, I just want to say something. This is why I love George Campbell. I give him an opportunity like that, and he doesn't miss it. This is T-Ball. That's T-Ball, and I liked it.

That was a shot to the ribs and I liked it. We're friends. That's why we do that. That's funny. But I think Claude Coleman's funny. It's a lot funnier sounding than Ken Coleman. I agree. But I digress. Let's help Alexandra out. That's a much better name. Alexandra in San Jose. It's a much better name. Alexandra, how can we help today?

Hi, I'm so glad to talk to you. You guys are my favorite duo on the Ramsey show. What? Alexandra, you're our favorite caller. I love you guys so much. You're so funny. And Ken, you always give the best advice. Thank you. So my question today is, I recently got a second job and it is to help me basically save up for my move to Idaho. And I,

I met my boss at least a week ago over the weekend, and she doesn't seem like she's really the nicest person. She's very rude.

When I first met her, we went to do some training and she got upset that I had brought a packed lunch with me to work. And then yesterday she called me and because I've been asking so many questions because I'm new to the place and I haven't really gotten the proper training that I've been asking questions and she called me annoying for asking her questions regarding my job. And I just don't really know how to handle that.

a person like that who is angry all the time. Yeah. And how long you've been in this job? It's been two weeks. Ooh. And you're thinking about moving to Idaho for this? I'm thinking about, yeah, I've been planning to move to Idaho since the spring earlier this year. Okay. Just because in California it's getting out of control. So what's the connection? So here's why I'm asking the Idaho question.

So you want to move to Idaho, whether this job is, is this a remote job anyway? No, it is in person. So you've already made the move to Idaho. I have not. So this is in the San Jose area. I'm so confused. Okay. Okay. So I'm planning to move to Idaho and I got this job so that I can save up money. Oh, I see. So this is your second job and you have the rude boss of the second job?

Yeah. Oh, okay. This is temporary. All right. I'm trying to get to the bottom of, because here's why I'm asking all the questions. Okay? This isn't worth putting up with. She's not going to change. This is a woman who got upset with you because you brought a packed lunch. How dare you? Who gets irritated over somebody packing their lunch?

Yeah, she seems like the type of person who gets very triggered by people who just live a different lifestyle than she does. Yes. And this is America, you know, you can, you know, you have to do that. Absolutely right. I didn't know a person who was unhappy. Bringing up lunch was a lifestyle. It's not. She's just unhappy and she's looking for anything possible to be rude about because she's very unhappy. Can I ask what kind of job this is?

This is a sales job. It's a company based in South Korea where it's a wellness company that sells thermal massage beds

that look like furniture. And so we cater mostly to people who have back problems or for people who work all day, lift heavy things. That sounds delightful. I would love this product. I would love this product. But this is just a second job for you. So how much are you making in the second job? Is it hourly or is it commission? It's both. So I make $40,000.

is my yearly income and then on top of that I make $300 per unit I sell. Okay. $300 per unit I sell. I think you have two options. One, you just put up with her nonsense.

you know, and just put up with it because it's a second job and it's a means to an end. It's literally, I'm trying to bank money so that I can check out of California and move to Idaho. So you either just decide, can I put up with her rudeness and move on and make good money and just deal with her, whatever she is.

The other option is to go, if I can't deal with it, then I got to move on and I'll go find me another second job that I can make the same amount of money and not deal with all her crap. Those are your two options. She's not going to change. Yeah, and I realize that. So which is the bigger hassle? The other thing is that she basically, so my main income, I work for my mother. She's an abstract artist and she has her own business. And so I handle like all of her social media.

And I also assist her at some of her workshops too that she does across the nation. And that's $20 an hour. And it can be, it's part-time. And then the other one is also part-time. So I work five days a week for my mom and I usually work early in the morning. And then I basically work at my other job from 10.30 a.m. to 5.30 a.m.

7 p.m. So it's about an eight and a half hour shift. But that's irrelevant. It depends on how much they schedule. It's irrelevant. The question is, which is the bigger nuisance for you? Dealing with the rude boss who's clearly hurting and her life sucks in some way or moving on to a different part time job?

Which is the bigger nuisance. Or you just say, I'm not going to work for mom, I'm not going to work for a rude person, and I'm going to go get a full-time job that pays me really well so I can stack up cash and move to Idaho. You have three options. Which is the least of a nuisance? Because these are all short-term plays. Yeah. So which one?

Well, I definitely want to work in customer service as a full-time job, and I've been applying to places like that. And for some reason, I'm not getting any. Well, that's okay. You just got to stay with it. But I mean, here's what I want to do. I want to answer your question, why you called. And so you're not going to change this lady. You're not going to change her. So you have the option to deal with it.

And keep stacking the cash that comes with it and go, this is just a short-term play. Or you move on to another short-term play. You have to decide. But you don't have to leave. You could put up with her long enough to replace that job, can't you? Just work around her. Mm-hmm.

No, I'm asking. Can you? Yeah. I mean, I think I want to stay with the company just because it is still new and I do. Great. Then you know what? It's a good income to keep. Then who cares what she says about your pack lunch? And who cares if she calls you annoying? You know? Get the answers you need to do the job well.

Yeah. Well, the thing is that I never really have to see her in person. She just calls me because she lives in Los Angeles. Great. Even better. She's the regional manager, and I'm the supervisor of the store. Great. So I report to her on the basis of the day that I... Well, she can't see any more of your packed lunches, so that problem is solved. That's true. There we go. One problem solved. I would just put your head down and do your job. I think so. And don't worry about her. But sorry going through that. That's never fun. That's never fun.

And hopefully it gives you more fuel to make this move to Idaho and follow your dream and get a great customer service job and all of that. Yeah, I hope so. And Alexandra, I want you to hang on the line and listen to this. I'm going to put George in a role play situation. I think this is perfect. Okay, hit me. Because she thinks you're very funny. So I'll put you on the spot.

You're in her shoes. You're just asking basic questions because you haven't been trained properly. Yep. And the boss says, you're so annoying, George. What do you say? You sound just like my mother. That's it.

You try to diffuse it, you know, see if you get a laugh out of them. If not, you go, well, 0 for 1. Well, we'll have another at-bat sports reference. Boom, nailed it. Wow, folks. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. My thanks to the legendary Ken Coleman, all the guys in the booth keeping the show afloat today, and you, America. We do this show for you, and it's because of you. We appreciate it. We'll be back with you before you know it.

Hey guys, I'm Rachel. And I'm George. And you've probably heard our voices before on The Ramsey Show. And do we have a surprise for you? Yep, we have our very own show, Smart Money Happy Hour, where we talk about pop culture, current events, and of course, money. George, it's a great show. And what else do we talk about? So much, Rachel. Not enough, and yet too much. We talk about guilt tipping, because tipping is out of control and I won't stand for it anymore, which is why I'm sitting. I'm glad you're taking such a stand.

And we also talk about something else I'm passionate about, Disney adults. Oh, George. Why is it a thing? Listen, some adults still find the magic. Sure.

We also talk about toxic money traits and girl math. And if you don't know what those are, you have to listen to the podcast. Yeah, there's a lot there, you guys. It's pretty fun. We keep you relevant is what I'm trying to say. We help you out. So pull up a chair to the happy hour you wish your friends were having. We promise you won't regret it. And if you don't have friends, we'll be your friends. We will. We're great friends. So make sure to check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app.