One Year of Sacrifice Can Totally Change Your Life
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ph.D. in Counseling, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Networks.

A lot of titles there. He's my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. The call is free, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Wayne starts this day in Chicago. Hi, Wayne. How are you?

Hello, I'm doing great. Thank you. How about you and Dr. John? We are better than we deserve, brother. How can we help? Thank you. Yeah, honored to talk to you all. We're longtime listeners. I had my wife with me, so she can hear me, so...

We are filling out for our paperwork for our inheritance for our children. We're going through all that process right now. We have three kids, two baby boys under two, and one daughter from my previous marriage, and she's 24. And we like how you push stipulations, and we've heard you say before in your will that you have –

They have to live a certain way and be a certain way. We're God-fearing Christians, so we want to make sure, like my wife...

Thinks one way, I think the other. So we need a tiebreaker. We need some wisdom on that. So we want to make sure she's living according to the Bible and doing the things that we expect her to. And my wife says if she's not there doing that yet when we should pass, should we still give her the or we shouldn't give her the inheritance? And I'm like, well, maybe we should give her a chance to get to there and then pass.

She could have part of the inheritance, and that would go for even our boys. So we're just torn on how we should handle that. Okay. You have the information correct. You have the spirit wrong behind what we did. Okay. Okay. What we did was not a punishment thing. It was not a carrot or a stick thing.

It was simply we back up and we told our kids from the time they were adults on that for Sharon and I, as for me and my house, we serve the Lord. And so we view our assets as God's. They're not ours. Our job is to manage his stuff, his way for him. So the kids have no rights. And what we explained to them was if they inherit something, all they're inheriting is the right to manage it.

They don't become the owner any more than I'm the owner. And so you wouldn't hire someone to manage a Burger King who has proven to not follow the Burger King manual, right? Correct. Because the man that owns the Burger King would be pissed.

Because you end up with a McDonald's burger over there or something, right? And it's his money and him that I'm concerned about. And they don't have any legal or spiritual or moral rights or entitlement to our wealth at all. And when they do inherit it, all they inherit is the weight of it and not the privilege of it.

You actually get the privilege, but if you view it properly, it's a responsibility rather than I hit the lotto. You follow me? And so it's not like if you don't behave, I'm going to take it away from you. It's not got any of that in it at all. But it's got to be okay. The other thing that I'll add to that is this, and it's hard for me because at times, especially with people I love, I'm extremely loyal, is that if someone's misbehaving and you give them money, you magnify their misbehavior.

Absolutely. An extreme situation is if you've got a kid doing heroin and you leave them a million dollars, you're going to kill them because they'll overdose because they've got unlimited resources to buy weed and heroin, right? Yes. And so you magnify their problem. You don't help it by throwing money on it, whatever the problem is.

So I don't know what her behavior is that you're so concerned about or your wife's so concerned about. But let's back up and just view this from a manager or a stewardship perspective. And that's the way I would talk to her about it. I would say, honey, I love you. And, you know, you and I can have a discussion about your behavior between father and daughter. But I can also need to tell you, I can't in good conscience leave you managing God's stuff when you're not following God.

I have to report back to him. And so I can't do that as a moral act on my part. And that's different than I'm going to hit you with a stick until you get in line. You're out of the will. You're out of the will until you quit doing that stuff. You know, that's a different spirit. You follow me? Yes, yes, that's correct. And if you want, this is Deloney, if you want to make sure there is never any complete reconciliation, right?

between you and your daughter who sounds like she went through some sort of y'all divorce growing up, something like that. Yeah. So pretty rough divorce. And my ex kept her away from me for six years. So still kind of a strange man. Um,

She's taking steps to follow in God. So she calls me with advice. I guide her. She got saved maybe a year ago. So I just want to make sure we do this correctly and we don't want to stunt her in any way. Here's what I want you to be careful of. I'm telling stepmother not to use this as a carrot and a stick. There you go. Okay. Man, I know you all are both on the phone here, so I'm going to say this directly as I can.

It's very common that when somebody gets remarried, that other kid from that other woman, that other kid from that other man, they're not getting my stuff. And so the red flag for me in this call was not living by the Bible anymore.

I want you guys to be real clear. You can go to 500 different churches and get 500 different interpretations. What does that actually mean when you sit down across the table from your daughter and say, I'm worried about you? I love you. Here's how we can best love you. If you keep, because you're going to be proud of the steps you've made. That's right. Spiritual walk. You still got a couple steps to take to get back just to get this side of the ditch. That's right. You're out of it. You know, you're out of the ditch, but we want to get you over here up in the road again. And I'm going to walk with you and love you. And

And if you want to draw your will up one way or another. But I hesitate to. And here's the other thing. When someone says living by the Bible, when we say that at Ramsey's, it's a very broad thing. It's not every nuanced little, oh, you ate a shrimp conversation.

Exactly. Because it says in Leviticus not to eat shelled animals, right? But, oh, we don't have to follow the Old Testament. Now we've got to get into orthodoxy. Oh, did Christ cancel out that or did he fulfill it? Oh, my goodness. We're in a doctrinal argument here. I'm talking about the big stuff. And you've got some. If you're doing cocaine on the back of a yacht, you're probably not following the Bible. Okay, so you're out.

Okay. But if you went to a different church that has musical instruments and John's church doesn't. Correct. Then it's probably okay. That's exactly right. And here's the thing. If you want to drive a wedge between you and your adult children, try to control their adult behavior with the threat of, well, then I'll just take you out of the will. It won't work. You will lose your children. Don't do that. It won't work. I will say, even though ours would be moved out, it's actually an element of a trust that

There is steps for the brother and sister that are remaining after Sharon and I are gone to walk that person back in. That's right. As they straighten up their lives. Right. So this is not a constant. It's not a stick. It's not a stick. We're constantly hitting somebody with our wealth trying to get them to behave and they're 37 years old and actually have a brain. No, that's not what we're doing. In her case, she's 24. But yeah, it's not what we're doing. So that's...

but you have to balance that, juxtapose that, if you will, with this idea that it's not mine to start with and I'm managing it for him. This is the Ramsey Show. These days, it's not if your identity gets stolen, it's when. And the only ID theft protection plan I have ever recommended is from Zander Insurance. It helps real people with real life situations like

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I stopped by and did a, there was a guy that was new in talk radio that was blowing up and everybody was saying how smart he is. And I stopped by at his studio and did his weekend show. And gosh, that's been 10 plus, maybe 15 years ago now, something like that. And he's blown up and has become a huge deal. And he is very smart. It's unbelievably bright and has blown up talk radio too on the political side. Ben Shapiro.

uh ben's uh company daily wires since moved to nashville to get out of california and um

They've opened up shop here. We've become friends with a whole bunch of their guys, their leadership team, and their behind-the-scenes people. And some of our folks have gone over there to work. And so all that kind of stuff. It's a good, neat relationship. Ben moved to Boca Raton, but he's in Nashville often because the company is here. So he stopped by the other day, and we got to do a long-form interview with him. Hadn't done that before. So George and I sat down, and that interview will be dropping tomorrow on Tuesday, October

So make sure you check it out, and it'll be on the Ramsey Network app on Tuesday, October 15th, and then it'll show up on the YouTube and on the podcast stuff on October 16th, on Wednesday, day after tomorrow, depending on where and when you're listening to this, but that's how it's working out. So be sure and check it out. He's an interesting dude, and we talked about a lot of stuff, a little bit about politics, but I was more interested in his story. Graduated from college at 17.

graduated from Harvard Law, had already published three books before he got out of law school. Very like a savant type character. Yeah, I know many a law student that doesn't have time to go to the bathroom during law school, not write three books. Good grief. Yeah, he's a lot of fun, and I've known him a long time. He's a great guy, and we got some, he's Orthodox Jewish, if you didn't know, and we've got friends in common in that community, and

We got to talk about some of that. So it's a fun interview. And even if you're, you know, not a right winger or something, his politics are all right, of course. And but yeah, check it out. I think you'll enjoy it. Again, it drops on the Ramsey Network app on Tuesday, October 15th free. The Ramsey Network app is free. We don't charge you for it.

and on Wednesday, October 16th on the YouTube channel and on the podcast channels, so be sure you're checking it out. Chloe is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Chloe. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Hi, John. How are you today? Better than we deserve. What's up? So my question is, is it okay for me to set financial boundaries within my marriage, and if so, how should I do that? What does that mean? So

Okay, back story. Several years ago, my husband unfortunately lost all of his finances due to someone else handling slash mishandling his finances for him. So he initially had to start from square one while his finances were seized.

Fast forward to now, he's been trucking from trucking job to trucking job, and there's always been some type of issue with the lack of mileage, the lack of pay, the hours, truck breaking down, all types of issues. So due to him being a high-income earner in the past, I think what he's doing is being extremely selective and picky with what jobs he'll take.

Um, so I'm basically trying to see how I can help him commit to just doing something like soccer and backroom, even entry, like something like that. And so he's able to do the thing that he wants to do, which is trucking just because it's been three years since he's had a secure and steady job. And it just put a lot of financial stress on me. So he's not making any money cause he's not working much. Yes. Why is he not working much?

he's going for jobs like he'll go that wasn't what i said i said why what's broken why didn't he want to work he used to work yeah nothing's broken his pride maybe his confidence maybe yeah have you sat down with him and said i need you to i need i need you to help provide for this family yeah did you say it like that or did you talk about the jobs i need you to take different jobs

No, no. I've said it. We've had several conversations about this and then he'll try to go back into tracking because he's like, oh, this is we'll make a lot of money. This will be more money. But I'm like, OK, it hasn't been working. So even if you had a job, it's only fifteen dollars an hour. Like that's better than just sitting and waiting and hoping for something else. What is he doing during the day? Is he just sitting at home?

No, he does side hustles. He does car audio or he bakes sometimes. He has some family friends that he does side work for, but it's nothing substantial to help cover all of our expenses. Neither is $15. You don't like who he's running with? I don't like who he's running with? Yeah. When he goes over there and works with the guy on the stereo thing, you don't like it, do you? No, I'm fine with it. It's different if it was actual consistent work.

full-time income. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think this is about financial boundaries. I think this is about the fact that you don't respect your husband, and he's doing nothing to earn that respect. And that's different than love, and that's different than honor, and all those other words. But the financial boundaries you're talking about setting are what you do right before you file divorce because you gave up on him. That's right. Because you're talking about splitting the bills because you're tired of carrying the whole weight of this household. As if you running the whole thing by yourself is going to fix it. It doesn't. Are you done? Right.

You sound done. No, I'm just frustrated. Yeah. It's hard when you sit down and tell somebody that you love, I need some help. I need you to be a full participant in this marriage. And he looks at you and goes, nah. That's heartbreaking, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. And you deserve better than that. For whatever that's worth. I'm so sick of guys who are scheming and always have a plan and always have a thing and always have a thing. And their wives are just drowning. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

It sounds like that you need to sit with a counselor and or your pastor both and bring him if he'll go. And he needs to hear loud and clear that your marriage is going down the drain. It's not gone down the drain yet, but the water is running out of the sink because if he doesn't and if he doesn't go get full time employment as a sign that he loves his family, then

then, you know, this is going to continue to get worse. It's not going to get better. And there's no boundary that you can set, like I'm not going to give you anything but lunch money, like he's four freaking years old or something. He's not your son. He's your husband. And so cutting him off from, you know, whatever, that doesn't fix this. What fixes this is his heart changes and he goes, oh, I got to get up off the couch.

and fixing two stereos a week is not going to cut it. And so I'm going to have to go leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. And, yeah, that's, I mean, you're going to have to set a,

not a financial boundary, but a marriage boundary at some point. Yeah. And that's, you do that not with two talk radio guys. Okay. Or podcast guys or YouTube goobs. You do that with a counselor that gets into your all's life and they go through your underwear drawer and they know what's really going on and not a three minute discussion with me or John. And, um, uh,

We would never tell you unless you're being abused to end something on the radio or on podcast. But we will tell you that you're heading that way. Maybe more than you realize, Chloe. Yeah, I think that's the thing. I feel like you're in the dark and Dave and I are looking at the flashing red lights. Yeah. Your marriage is in a lot of trouble. And I think it's about going to see somebody ASAP. Yeah. I hate that for you. Dave, it seems to have cropped up over the last two years. And...

I'll say it's just flat out ignorance on my part. Just the men I run with, even the goofballs I run with, right? None of them would look at their wives and say, I ain't doing that. I just don't know those men, but it seems to have cropped up more and more and more and more. I think they're males. Oh, I like that. Yeah.

I don't think they're men. There's a responsibility you got, man. When you take somebody's hand and you say, I do, till death do us part, you have opted in. You don't have the obligation to wait for the cool new deal. You got to go get it done for your family. Period. End of story. And you can self-actualize later. That's a later problem, right. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Jason and Marissa are with us. Hey guys, how are you? We're doing great. We're doing great. Good to have you all. Welcome. Where do you live? Cheyenne, Wyoming. Love it. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off? $233,585. Love it. Way to go. And how long did that take you? Six years, one month. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? $59,000 to $114,000. Wow. Wow.

I'm going to guess and say some of that $234,000 was your mortgage. All of it was the mortgage. All of it was the mortgage. And this is why you have the We Are Weird People t-shirt on. Yes. Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop. Way to go, man. Congratulations. So what's this house worth? About...

320. Very cool. And it's 100% yours. Correct. And how old are you two? I am 43 and she's 33. Excellent. Wow. You have a paid for $320,000 house in Cheyenne, Wyoming, which is a nice house, by the way. That's a big place in Cheyenne. You can get a lot for 320 there.

compared to other places, you know? Excellent. Very cool. Wow. Way to go, you guys. How much in your nest eggs in your 401Ks and stuff?

600,000. So you're bumping up on Baby Step Millionaire already? Yep. Correct. Wow. Look at you guys. So proud of you. Way to go, you guys. Well, tell us your story. How did you get started on all this and how did you meet the Ramsey thing? Sure. So I actually started, well, years before even buying a house. I had just bought a car in 2016 and I kind of sat down and did the numbers and I'm like,

and at that point i didn't have michelle um with me and i wanted to pay for her college um i didn't have a house and after doing all the numbers i'm like this doesn't work you know so

I went in, instead of Googling how to get out of debt, because most of the time the results were how to lower your interest rate, and I knew the interest rate wasn't the issue, it was the principle. So instead, I looked for podcasts. You were the second podcast, and that's how I got into listening to you. Very cool, very cool. And Michelle that you're referring to is your daughter sitting off to the side. We'll bring her up in a minute. And when did you marry Marissa?

June 2021. 2021, okay. July 2021. Yeah, I can't even. It's okay. Yeah, get that right, dude. Get that one right. My birthday's in June, so. The whole summer's yours. We got it, okay? Good for you. Hey, way to go, guys. So you, when you're getting married, you join in on this we're getting out of debt thing. You have to? Is that the rule? Well, no. So I came from a family where we weren't debt free. My mom was a huge saver.

I'm a huge saver. I'm right now, I'm having to teach myself how to spend money. So I came from that kind of family. So when he talks about Dave Ramsey, I've heard of you. I knew a little bit, but not a ton. So it was more coming in and listening and hearing all the details. But oh, yeah, I was like, no problem. We can do this. Yeah, knock it out. Knock it out. We can be millionaires by the time I'm 33. Yeah. No problem. Yeah.

Way to go. Way to go, you guys. What was your biggest fight about money in your first couple of years of getting married? Did we have one? I was going to say money was never an issue. Yeah, because like I said, I'm a huge spender. Are you a saver? I'm a saver. Yeah, I'm sorry, a huge saver. And I guess I'm a little bit of a free spirit, but I kind of keep that really in reign because I end up saving so much and

Jason's just always been about the budget and the numbers guy. So he always kept himself on in rain because he did all the numbers. He could see what he could spend and what he couldn't. And so you're one of those extra weird people that listened to a few episodes of the Ramsey show and you just kept saying, well, duh, well, duh, this guy's a show telling people what my grandma told me. Wow.

Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. The only thing that my parents didn't do is they didn't necessarily pay off their house. So I will say that even coming from my side of the family, like, absolutely, this is the first time for the family is getting the house paid off early. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. And I do have to add that we only met because of you, Dave. So...

I'm known for matchmaking. What are you talking about? Sure. The Dave Love Connection After Dark. That's the other podcast. That's a new podcast we got coming out next month. It's not. No. The year that you did the book every month. Oh, yeah. The book club. Yeah. So...

You were one of the 14 people that did it. Correct, yes. Okay. Two of the 14. She didn't do it. Sorry, no, I didn't do it. The very first book was Boundaries. Yeah. Dr. Henry Cloud, yeah. And your stuff was based off of biblical principles. His book was based off of biblical principles. And so because of that, I started following Jesus, and that's where I met her. We met in Bible study, so...

No more making fun of this. This is great. Thank you. This is awesome. I stand corrected. I'm honored to be part of that story. Thank you.

Very cool. Very cool. Good job, you guys. What do you tell people? What's the first big thing you're going to do? You're almost millionaires and you're debt-free house and everything. What are you going to do? Celebrate. Come on, you two. Spend some money. I just saw you side-eye her. What are you holding back on? Yeah, what are you holding back? So actually, okay, so here's the thing. We just did my first time of flying. I've never flown before. Oh, wow. And so coming out here, we didn't want to take like a ton of vacation time. So I flew for the first time. So that was a big deal for me.

How'd you do? It actually was fine. Were your arms tired? It was. The first flight had a little bit more bumpiness than the second one, but it was good. After 5,000 of them, you'll get used to it, I promise. Yeah. Right? Wow. So where are you going now? Now that you can fly and you know you can. Yes. Right. Exactly. You could go anywhere. Where do you want to go? I want to cruise. I want to cruise. Oh.

Yes, I've been on one before. We went on one during that honeymoon time frame. And I just, I love it. We were getting off the ship and I was like, now we have to go forage for our food. Because that's what it feels like. After having food in front of you 24-7. Way to go. I love it. Well, very cool. All right, next question. What do you tell people the key

to not only be in debt-free house and everything, but now almost being millionaires in your 30s and early 40s. What's the key to it? What are the things they need to do? Um...

For me, it was about behavior. I knew quite a bit of stuff even in my teens. I knew about IRAs and 401ks, but I didn't follow it. So, you know, it wasn't until I started listening to you and was like, okay, yeah, I need to follow this. Yeah. That things changed. Absolutely. And because sometimes we just have to tell ourselves actually more than sometimes. We have to tell ourselves no. Yeah. Yeah.

So being content. Absolutely. Very cool. Well, good for y'all. I'm proud of you. Very well done. All right, let's bring Michelle up. How old is Michelle now? She's 16. 16, and Dad's planning for college. She's happy about this, I guess.

He's planning to pay for it anyway. He's going to help you. That's pretty good. Yeah. Very cool. All right. It's Jason, Marissa, Michelle, Cheyenne, Wyoming. $234,000 paid off almost on the house worth. $320,000 house and everything. Did it in six years and one month. Making $59,000 to $114,000. Baby Steps Millionaires are almost right at that. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free!

Yeah! Woo-hoo-hoo! Yeah! If you're tuning in to this show for the first time and you don't know what you've joined, that's called a debt-free scream. That's what it sounds like from the bottom of your toes when you have no payments anywhere of any kind. No student loan that's been around so long you think it's a pet. No MasterCard. No American Distress. No mortgage, which is French for death pledge.

It is. That's crazy. These people are free. That's what it sounds like. You ought to try it. Yeah, you! This is The Ramsey Show.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is the season for Halloween. It's October, we're wearing costumes and we're wearing masks. So if you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. And while you're thinking about it, I want you to be honest. A lot of us hide ourselves. We hide our true selves behind costumes and masks all the time. We do this at work, we do this around our friends, we do this around our families.

We even do this when we look at ourselves in the mirror. I know because I've been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding behind masks and costumes all the time, if you find yourself hiding from your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can be honest, where you can talk to somebody else and reflect and learn and you can accept all the parts of yourself over time and start living an authentic life.

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Guys, John and I just signed up to do something. We're really freaking excited about. This is going to be so fun. We just launched a brand new tour. Dave Ramsey, Dr. John Deloney. We're hitting the road, coming to a city near you, the money and relationships tour. We're putting a new twist on these live events where you shape the conversation each night. It's going to be a little different than me just getting on stage and yakking at you. Uh,

John and I are going to be on stage the whole time talking and talking at each other and even talking with you. It's going to be pretty cool. You select the topics that matter most to you, wherever it is, in the money piece or in the relationships piece or wherever.

achieving your financial goals, your voice is going to drive the night. Louisville, April 21. Durham, April 23. Atlanta, April 25. Phoenix, May 5. Fort Worth, May 7. And Kansas City will wrap us up on May 9th.

We can, you can join us live in person on the stage that night. You'll laugh, you'll learn, you'll get your questions and you'll change your life. You can get your tickets at Ramsey solutions.com slash tour. And we'll see you next time.

And if you're tuning in on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the show notes. John, this is going to be fun. Yeah, I can't wait. It's going to be a blast. We've been talking about the content and pieces that we can put out for you guys to select from. And so visualize like we're going to do seven or eight bits, and you've got like 30-something to vote on before the show starts that night. And we'll figure out which ones we're going to do. And that's pretty cool. Almost like doing the show here, because we actually never know what you guys are going to call and ask us on the show.

We just sit down. The show prep here is not any. We just sit down, start answering the phone, and we have no freaking idea what you people are going to call about. So that's kind of a little bit that way on this thing, except that we're going to narrow it down to about 30-something possibilities so that it stays in the, you know, between the lines and all that stuff. Well, and there's nothing worse than going to see a band play, and they play all the songs they want to play.

And you go home, you're like, man, I was hoping they'd play these five songs. And so we're coming out, and you get to decide what songs to play. And here's the catalog. That's right. You pick. I can't wait. That's a good way of looking at it. Chris is in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hi, Chris. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Hi, John. How can we help? So we lost my father-in-law about April of last year. I'm sorry. And I didn't think I was going to get emotional about it, but...

it's been a long kind of just struggling year with my mother-in-law trying to get her together and it's just, and keep my wife together. She's an only child. So it just kind of fell onto us or me. And, um, I'm just, my father-in-law left her set up pretty good. Um, uh, you know, a couple million dollars in assets and in, uh,

and then, you know, a few hundred thousand dollars in assets. I'm sorry, a couple million in assets or a few hundred thousand in assets? I got lost. A couple million in, like,

in like investments and stuff and IRAs and 401ks. How old is she? And then she's 65. Okay. All right. I got you. Um, so, and he, they were already collecting social security and they were in a pretty good spot before he passed away. And I don't know, I just, he was trying to keep this stuff growing. And at this point I just,

And it hasn't stopped. I'm still checking in on it for her from time to time. And it's going through one of the big investment companies. What are you worried about, brother? How can we help? Well, it's not even, I just don't know how to reassure her that she is fine and taken care of and how to keep her from just driving it off a cliff, really. I mean, how long were they married? She's

Uh, 44, it would have been 44 years. They were just like a month shot. What makes you think she's going to drive it off the cliff? Um, dad kind of did everything. So not, not, not bad habits or bad character, just lack of knowledge. Yes. Okay. All right. Good. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, that's really what it is. Dad did everything. Dad made sure. Okay. I don't want you to take the place of dad. This woman is 60 years. This woman is 65 years old. It's time for her to grow up.

Yeah. That's harsh, but she should have grown up before he died. Right. My wife knows what my stuff is, our stuff is, and she knows exactly what to do. And she's not some clueless babe in the woods. And when I die, she's going to have a clue. That's part of our estate plan is her knowing what to do when I die.

And so now what we've got to do is play catch up in that area. He did a great job providing the nest egg. He did a lousy job involving her and letting her have a level of competence and confidence. So we've got a little catching up to do. Now, does the big firm that it's with have an advisor that you all are talking to? Or is this some Internet crap? No, no, no. Yeah, we have an advisor. Does the advisor have the heart of a teacher? Or is he or she a snot? I don't know.

No, actually she's dealt with her with, I think, kind of kid gloves. Okay, I want her to teach her. I want her to sit down and show her what these investments are, how they work, and why with $2 million she's more than okay. Right. I want the advisor to teach her that. If she can't or won't, get a new advisor. Okay. Because the advisor's job is not to handle this for her. Your job is not to handle this for her.

Your job, her job is to make sure that this lady gets peace at night when she lays her head on the pillow because she understands that she's okay because she understands her investments, not because her son-in-law said so. Right. There's no peace in Dave Ramsey said so. There's no peace in Chris said so. Peace is I know what the flip's going on. I get this. I got $2 million. That should generate $200,000 a year in income. I'm okay. Okay.

Right. Well, and like this year I looked at it, her projected forecast is like 60,000 and she's sitting on probably close to 200, just sitting liquid in the bank. Yeah, she's fine. She's fine. She's okay.

Nothing to worry about here. But she does need to get the advisor's job is not kid gloves. It's to be kind, compassionate. She lost her husband in April of 44 years. I'm not driving past that, not being harsh. But I am saying the advisor's job is not to continue this person's inability, your mother-in-law's inability to know what's going on. She needs to know what's going on for her sake. She'll feel better when she knows what's going on.

Right. It's like someone gave her the keys to the car and put her behind the seat and said, drive. And she doesn't know what she's doing. It scares her to death. Yeah. And I mean, it kind of scares us to get to death too. Cause like I said, we're up here in Pennsylvania and she's down in Texas. And yeah. Is she willing, is she willing to relocate or is that just where is that home that were her friends and family and rest of her family is? I it's, it's home. I mean, she says yes, but I don't know. You got kids. Um,

Yeah, I have a daughter. Okay. That's a draw card. Yeah. Right. Here's something. So a lot of times people get stuck and it's hard to metabolize a loss. Like, right. She lost a lung. She lost a part of her heart. She lost an arm and like she lost a part of herself. Right. Right. That's half a century. A cool gift you can give her. And it's going to sound weird. But next time you are together over the holidays or having a cup of coffee or even a phone call.

I would love for you to say, I would love for you, mother-in-law, if we could have a couple of conversations. The way your husband left you is inspirational to me, and I want to take care of your daughter, my wife, the way you were taken care of. Will you tell me some of the things he did? Will you tell me about him? Some stories I don't know. And here's what you're going to give her and you. Y'all are both going to get the gift of metabolizing this loss by telling stories.

Yeah. And in those stories are the lessons. And as she talks about it, it will slowly move to past tense and it will slowly lose, move to exhale. I'm okay. Right. I can learn how this money works. Some of this I can see is fear. Of course it is. Because he did so much for her. That's right. And every day she wakes up. A lot of it is just,

she blames on the way she was raised well when you're 65 that one doesn't work anymore yeah yeah we're past that works when you're 25 that's right yeah call her and say hey i want to learn i want to learn about him because i want to take care of of your daughter the same way he took care of you right tell me some stories yeah and stay with that advisor if they've got the heart of a teacher if they don't move it and to get somebody that says honey this how it works you're fine now tell me back how it works this how it works you're fine now tell me back how it works

Sometimes you have to explain it like five times when you're a teacher. Like I've been doing that for 30 years here on the radio over and over. Yeah, that's how it works when you're teaching. This is The Ramsey Show.

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do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ph.D. in Counseling, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. All right, Dylan is with us in Seattle. Hi, Dylan, how are you? I'm doing good. Good. How can we help?

So I, um, I'm having an issue with like relationship wise and also my financial stresses. Um, my, uh, my girlfriend has an overspender and we're also having some relationship issues and just trying to figure out exactly, um, the best way to go about it. Go about what? Uh, just go about like, um,

whether or not like exactly how to, I'm trying to think of the name, sorry, trying to figure it out, how to go about talking to her about financial stuff and whether or not she'll go with it. What kind of relationship issue? What do you mean? You said we're having relationship issues.

Yeah, so she's gone about cheating and stuff like that, and I've sticked with her for a little bit of a time still, and I have a daughter with her and a stepson. However, I'm not really a...

I don't want to leave her, if that is the right way to say it, because I don't want the financial stresses on her and for that poor son of hers. Man, you got yourself all twisted up here, brother. Okay. She's making choices about her life and her son that she had with another father. Yes.

Right now, you are... You drove by, she's cheating on me, like you went through the drive-thru at Burger King. She's cheating on me as a full stop, dude. That's like, stop! Overspending, and I want to work it out, and I'm worried about her kid eating. Those are way down the road of things I'm worried about once we got past the other thing. Got it. Did I miss something? I mean, are you just nervous on the radio? But I mean...

Well, yeah, I'm a little nervous on the radio, too. It's my first time being on the radio. No, that's okay. We're not going to kill you. I just went, okay, there's a whole bunch of different stuff here. So her feeding her son. Now, your daughter is a different issue. That's your job. Okay? You took that on when you made the baby. Ding, ding. That's how that works. Okay? You didn't take on cheating girlfriend for life because you didn't marry her.

And you certainly didn't take on her kid for life because you didn't marry her. You can care about them, but that's different than you having a moral ethical responsibility for their, for their wellbeing, the wellbeing and moral and ethical responsibility you have in this whole conversation is one daughter. That's it. Am I missing something, John? No, I'm, I'm, I'm still a little bit speechless on how you rattled this thing out. Like what, what am I missing here, brother?

So I left her once already to go to Texas. I live in Washington. That way I can pursue a diving career. Did you leave your daughter in Washington?

I did. Don't do that. I understand. And I, I resented it and she followed me over to Texas. Okay. Um, and we lived in over in my mom's house for a little bit. I was paying off my debt and she, um, what was it called? Um, I went up for four months to, uh, on a diving boat to prepare type stuff and saved about $10,000. Um,

And I was paying off a lot of debts and stuff. And then having a bunch of issues with my family-in-law. Sure. You don't have a family-in-law. You're not married. My family, yeah. And then as I was diving, I had a horrible accident come back, and I found out she was cheating. Okay. You made $10,000 over four months?

No, it was that's with paying off all my I'm a diver. What was the nature of your horrible accident? Commercial diving. I know what did you what what did you hurt you get the bins? Yeah, I got the bins. It was type 1 illness Okay Have you met a mess up brain function? No

It's just really my ears at this current moment. I'm having some massive ear issues. Yeah, you're probably done with that sport, huh? Done with that career. Are you back to work? Are you working somewhere else now? Yeah, I'm working back with my company that I used to work for in Washington where I would do Christmas lights and soft washing on roots and stuff. Yeah, you're not going down more in that atmosphere again probably. Okay. How old are you?

I'm 24. How old is she? Almost 30. Okay. All right. And where's your family, hon? My family is in Texas, so I don't have anyone over here in Washington. Is she back in Washington in your area, too?

Yes, we're both back in Washington. When I had all that stuff saved and my family actually kicked everyone out of the house because she did not like the way my girlfriend was saving up money and she was just not spending or she was just spending everything and not saving money. All right, so here's what I want you to do. I want you to get your priorities in the right order, okay? Okay. Priority number one is?

You and your daughter need to have a safe place to live. And what I mean by safe is a secure place with food, with shelter, with utilities. Okay? Yes, I have all that right now. Or you'd have stable work. Then I want you to go down and be very clear about next steps on your romantic relationship. This woman's 30. Okay.

Got two kids, two different dads. She's running around on you again. Hopefully she stopped that nonsense when y'all are back together in Washington. But I want y'all to start being adults. You're not dating. I mean, you're not high schoolers dating. Y'all are adults having adult relationships. You made a kid. You're going to mess around and make another kid.

and you're putting everybody at risk and then as a part of dealing with what our relationship is going to look like here's my boundaries here's what must be true for me to remain in relationship with you and that's going to require you standing up on two feet and saying i'm the father of this young daughter and as for me and my house is what it's going to look like if you want to be a part of our house you're not going to cheat anymore we're going to go to a to premarital counseling

Here's what it's going to look like to spend money. You see what I'm saying? I want you to get very clear. You're trying to just kind of lukewarm everything. And it's all just feeling like old wet oatmeal. Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah. It's almost like this is just blowing in the wind. Yeah. And you're going to have to stand up and go, okay. Enough. I don't do this. Correct. This I don't do. If you do this, you don't get to be here. Period. Ever again.

Or if you want to just say, you did this so you don't get to be here. That'd be okay too, which is kind of where I would be. But you do whatever you want to. I'm kind of pretty cold on that stuff. This is The Ramsey Show.

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All right, today's question comes from Meredith in Virginia. Meredith writes, my husband and I started following your baby steps this year. Now that we are budgeting, it's clear that a lot of our money is going towards my husband's alcohol purchases. He enjoys collecting bourbon and spends 75 bucks a week on his hobby.

Okay, you're not following the baby steps. We really need that money to get out of debt. I'm embarrassed and frustrated that he is spending our hard-earned money on this unnecessarily. He's defensive and says he doesn't spend money on anything else, so I shouldn't complain. I don't know how to get through to him. Okay. Well, when you are working your get-out-of-debt plan, you put your hobbies on hold.

Um, that might include your $75 a week for nails and facials and hair care and eating out and him buying a bottle of bourbon. But, um, I have a bourbon collection. Um, I can afford it though. And I'm not in debt.

And do you have a collection or do you have a museum? Well, yeah. And this is not about me, John. But the deal is this. So I'm not against the idea. I do read in this language, Meredith, that you have a problem with this that's beyond money. Absolutely. The language you're using. Yes. And it's a very generous we.

we are following your baby steps we are budget we're not we are not and i think you want this relationship relationship to be something that your husband does not care it to be and that's underneath all this mess and y'all need to sit down and have that conversation i kind of think she doesn't want him to have the bourbon too i think there's something going on there and that's okay too that's a fair discussion to have if you know like your dad was an alcoholic and i don't want bourbon in my house that's something that's that's nothing unfair to have that discussion but we don't have to

use the baby steps as a weapon to have that discussion. That's a different discussion. So discussion number one is, you know, I got a problem with bourbon or I got a problem with you collecting bourbon or I've got a problem with that much alcohol in our house. I don't get it. I don't understand. That's fine. That's discussion number one. Discussion number two is putting your hobby, whatever it is on pause, which we're a hundred percent down with. And some of the most manly,

things I've seen men do in the early days of teaching financial peace university. I had one old guy's serious country boy and he had a huge fabulous, Oh God, my mouth waters. Think about collection. He had these custom knives from all over the world. I mean, this, this was a knife collection. He took his knife collection and I can still see he was a great big old guy and his little wife was like five foot one tiny little thing. And I can see her, uh,

crying and

with happy tears of what her husband had sold this knife collection for $23,000. Whoa. It was a lot. I mean, it was a very nice, and this is like this kid got selling one of his kids as far as he was concerned. But he put, what that said was to her is I put you and our future and the future of our kids ahead of me, my wants, my hobby. I've seen guys do that with their gun collection. And let me tell you, Redneck sells our guns. It's a big deal.

Okay. That's like, that's a big deal. And that's what this is for this guy. Right here. Probably because guys that get in on, I'm buying a cell and fool around in that world a little bit. And, um, guys that get into this, it's not because they're an alcoholic. It's just that they enjoy the process of collecting and tasting and whatever with bourbon. There's nothing evil about that in my mind anyway. Um, but what you don't want to do is put this in front of the good of your family. And that's how she's couching this.

I'm suspicious with the wording she's using and the spaces between the words. I'm seeing things there. But either way, he should stop until we get on the same page on this. And so my wife has a fairly generous attitude.

purse collection that is somewhat one for one with my gun collection. Is it retribution? It's like a one-off. You get one, I get one. But I don't care. It's fine. We got the money. It's non-issue. It's something we do for fun. These people are trying to get out of debt, trying to get their head above water. You don't do this stuff when you're in that. So he needs to stop this, to her point. But I also think she needs to figure out what's

really bothering her here. And Dave, it's a thing that sets me off a little bit. When somebody, when either spouse sits down and says, hey, this thing is a big deal to me, and they are shut down by the other spouse with, hey, you shouldn't complain. I don't like that language, Dave. It just, it pisses me off. If you feel in your heart that, hey, my spouse is complaining about something they shouldn't complain about, you'll need to go see a counselor.

Um, but either you have a whiny complainy bratty spouse, um, and y'all need to go talk to a professional about that, or you're acting like a baby and, um, your response is to say you shouldn't complain. It's like, I'm gonna take my ball and go home.

Your marriage is on thin ice if you start running around like that. So go talk to somebody who can help mediate that because you guys got a mess. But you're right, Dave. There's something underneath here. Either he's struggling with alcohol, she don't want this nonsense in her house, or this hobby, if you will, is a proxy for she's trying to drag this marriage, kicking and screaming into something that he could care less. He's going to sit on the couch, play his video games, and collect his thing, and she don't need to complain about it because he earns the money around here. And I just hate that attitude.

Here's the thing, though, folks, in general, okay? $75 a week for anything, give it a name, that's not necessary for the operation of the family. That's only $300 a month. Does that really keep you from getting out of debt and becoming successful? No, it does not mathematically. What it does is it signals everyone in your universe, your wife, your kids, your boss, that you're not serious. But when you say everything stops,

All the altars I am worshiping at, all the things that I claim are important are not as important as the future of our family. We are getting out of debt. We're going to build some wealth. We're going to have an emergency fund cushion come hell or high water. You know, you can't do, you know, I get my massage every week. You can't have my chiropractor visit. Okay, shut up. Okay. Okay.

you know we've had people cut their own hair it's not an issue for me but um you you were so serious yours just fell out there you go that's how serious you got about it i just took care of it that's right you held your nose real hard and blue and it fell out that was that's gross that was pretty rough sorry you do something my paychecks i apologize

So, but I mean, yeah, you put... You do whatever it takes, man. These little... Because they're representative of where your heart is. Yeah. Where your heart is, your treasure is also. And it can be flipped, right? So someone can sit across the table and say, dude, this is 300 bucks, relax. And somebody across the table says...

Oh, our family's not even worth $300. Right? Yeah. It's a yin-yang. It just keeps going in a circle. Just stop. But it's a signal. It's a signal flare that says I'm not in. I'm not in. I'm not going to go all in. I'm not going to leave it all on the field.

And you don't send that signal into heaven and you don't send that signal into your relationships and into your career and get anything positive back. You don't hire people who like, Hey, when you send a signal that says I'm all in and you know, nothing's going to stop me. You know what? Nothing stops you. That's right. And it's not the 300 bucks. It's the signal. That's the problem. And so, and this is raising up something else.

that's going on here too. Yeah. I wish you the best Meredith. Uh, but I think it's time to sit down like Dave was saying and have the true real conversation that needs to be had here. And, um, if it can't be had, then it's time to go get a marriage counselor. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Cause the alarm bells are ringing on this one. That's why we're doing the relationship and money tour together because they go together all the time. All these questions are intermingled. This is the Ramsey show.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here, and I got a big announcement. I'm coming to a city near you live on the Money and Relationships Tour with the

with Dr. John Deloney. This is the most interactive event we've ever done. You get to decide what we talk about. You do not want to miss this. We'll be coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City in April and May of 2025. Get your tickets and more information at ramsaysolutions.com slash tour.

Guys, you are well aware that I have no love for Bank of America and Fifth Third and the other big national banks, Chase and all that. You're just a number there, and you're going to get screwed if you're the customer. And I tell you not to go there. I've told you that for 20 years. They don't give a crap. They really don't.

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Ramsey. All right, we're talking with Nevin and Maisie. Hi guys, how are you? Good. Good. On the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, where do you live? Iowa City, Iowa. Love it. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off? $62,000. Good for you. And how long did that take? 11 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? $90,000 to $140,000. Cool. What do y'all do for a living?

I work in research administration. I do heating and air. Very cool. Good for you guys. And then we also press wedding flowers. We have a side hustle. Oh, that's fun. Good. Good for you. I don't even know what that means. What does that mean? We press wedding flowers in frames for people who get married. After you get married, you take your bouquet.

And keep it forever because it's pressed, right? Right. Yep. That's amazing. Yeah. It's very cool. So we do that together. It's amazing that I knew that. Yeah. I mean, that may be the most impressive thing about you today, Dave. That was kind of cool. It's a great, great side hustle, you guys. What kind of debt was the $62,000? A HELOC and a car loan. All right. How long you two been married?

Three years. Three years, yep. A little over three years. Okay, so two years into the marriage, you look up a year ago and said, this sucks, I don't like HELOCs and car loans, I want out. Tell me what happened and how you got in touch with us. We found out we were expecting and we still had our finances mostly separate and we were

you know, dealt with most of the finances and I was like, I don't know how we're going to do this, not having our money combined. So it started with us combining our finances, um, starting a budget. And once I started a budget, you know how social media gives you an algorithm that, you know, pumps out all of these, um, your phone is listening. Right. Um, so we found some clips from the Dave Ramsey show and I kind of got hooked. We both kind of got hooked. Um, and from there we,

The first month, I think we were ish, and then we figured out how much we could do, and then we really just went gazelle intense. Once you start to believe, you can turn it on, right? Right. I mean, head come, we can do this. Boom. Yeah. Once I learned more about a HELOC, I was like, well, what did we just do? We just put our house on the line for what? We actually bought a boat with it. So, yeah. I had to have my fishing boat. Yeah. Yeah.

What happened? Did you keep the boat and pay off the HELOC or sold the boat? We paid off the HELOC. Spring came around and we sold the boat. Both? Oh, wow. Yep. Made the tough decision. That's what we were just talking about earlier. Yep. Like, what a signal you sent to her and to that little one. Like, I'm all in. I'm selling the boat. Yep. Good for you, man. That's exactly the thing I'm talking about. That's a hard decision.

Because I'm sure it was a sweet boat. It was a sweet boat. He drove all the way down to Georgia to get it. What kind of boat was it? It was a Crestliner 1650 Fishhawk. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah, it was a...

That's a beast. Maisie, if you ever wonder, does he love me? He loves you. You have no idea how much this man loves you. Wow. I mean, like walk through windshield loves you. I mean, that's like, that's real love. Wow. Wow. Very cool. I'm proud of you guys. Congratulations. Thank you. And so you got a new baby. Life is ahead of you. Everything's paid off, but the house, here we go. Game on. Now we can do anything. Right. Absolutely. So when you were started listening to this and you started putting it down, did you

You remember what happened, like what it was that made you believe you could do it? Like you had that moment like, we can do this. This is not just a theory. We're going to do it. I think I just saw...

you know, when our money was finally like lumped together and what was actually coming in every month, um, I, I saw that extra room. Where's it all going? Yeah. Where's it all going? And we started actually looking at where it was going and we started like cutting like TV. We cut YouTube TV and we cut all these other things. Um, and finally like in three months we paid off like $15,000 and we were like, how we can do so much more than this. So, wow. Yeah. We just started living more frugal. Yep. You know, didn't go out to eat.

But our life is so abundant even though we don't have a lot of stuff. I'm interested in that because it's hard when you're on one side of this fence. We go out to eat. We do all these things. We have these monthly whatevers. It's hard to believe that you will smile and still like each other and have a good marriage on the other side of this. Y'all are both smiling. Tell me about that.

We just love spending quality time together and with our son. And we have two dogs, Daisy and Ginger. And it just seems like time flies by so fast. We just started realizing how much fun we could have doing things that didn't cost money. Yeah, like taking him to parks. He jumped into my floral pressing business and it kind of became something that we do for fun. And I don't know, it...

puts a price tag on our free time but it's also enjoyable yeah we sit at the kitchen table and drink tea and coffee and chit chat and press flowers and it's just beautiful thing yeah you tell your buddies that you're a plumbing department that you're like guys this weekend I was pressing flowers just having tea chit chatting

I'm like your biggest fan because she's the artist and I'm like the laborer. So like I tell people all the time like, hey, look at what my wife does and she's very talented and I'm just proud to be a part of that. And

Maisie, listen to me. I work with unmarriable men. That's what I do. And this guy is amazing. He's amazing. You got a prize. Amazing. Well done, dude. Hey, you're setting the bar for all of us. For real. Thank you. You go out there and you work a hard job and you work really hard and you get dirty and you help families and then you come home and...

you look in the eyes of this wonderful woman and you have coffee and you press flowers. And to put it on a whole nother level, like when we had Sawyer, he made the ultimate sacrifice to go on nights so that we didn't have to pay for daycare through it all. So he was also working night shift as well as taking care of Sawyer during the day. Wow. Way to go, you guys. I'm proud of y'all. Yeah.

You can do this kind of stuff. You can do anything, right? Absolutely. You feel like you're invincible, don't you? Yeah. Little Superman cape tucked in back there. Yeah. I'm so proud of you. You really can because once you set your mind to it and, you know, the biggest problem that people have hitting a goal is not what they're willing to do to hit the goal. It's what they're willing to give up to hit the goal. Right. That's the hardest part. But you look like you gave up stuff and you gained everything. Yeah. Yeah. I guess if you just don't know what's on the other side of the fence. Yeah.

you know, and the creativity side of it. And you just, you never know unless you give it a try. It's amazing. Yeah. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Um, well, the nuts and bolts, combining your finances and sticking to the budget and just working hard. We both have a really good work ethic. Y'all using every dollar. Yes, we are. Um, and then just finding hope, um, just finding joy in the little things. Um,

We just have such an abundant life. Well, it's going to be. It's going to be so abundant. It's going to blow your freaking mind 10 years from now because you guys have set the table for a beautiful thing. Very well done. All right. Sawyer is your son's name? Yep. How old is Sawyer? Sawyer is almost nine months. All right. And he gets to be in the debt-free screen. He doesn't even know what's going on.

He didn't know how big a hero his parents are. Nevin and Maisie, couple of heroes for Sawyer, Iowa City. Man, $62,000 in 11 months, making $90,000 to $140,000. Sold the freaking boat. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Hey, America. We're going to be okay. There's people like them out there. This is The Ramsey Show.

Folks, changing your family tree takes more than rice and beans and side hustles. It's also about transferring the big financial risks off your family by having the right kinds of coverage in place. That's why my team created the Coverage

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Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. If you didn't know, Dr. John and our products team developed a whole series of questions for humans cards. Parents and kids edition, couples edition, friends edition, and now... Uh-oh.

It's time, Dave, for three years. Uh-oh. For three years. How did this get past my approval? You went out on vacation for a few weeks, and we got it through. That's how it happened. We got it through. So, hey, we got the new friends, couples, and parents version three. So they're all brand new questions. But the one I'm most excited about, questions for humans, intimacy deck.

All those questions, spouses all over the country, people clapping out there. They wanted the sex deck. Yes, they've been wanting to talk about sex and intimacy, and nobody knows how to do it, and they Google it, and you get some crazy things in the Googles. Oh, you don't understand. You don't want to do that. So this is a way for...

spouses to sit in the same house and reconnect man and um dude i i have not been this excited all kidding aside it's not all sex it's not all sex um and if you know anything about being married sex doesn't start it doesn't start in the bedroom it starts all over the house and so well that sounded weird i made that weird i made that real real weird sorry america i don't think that's what you meant that's not what i meant um

But listen, questions for humans, intimacy. It starts with drying the dishes. Just try that. That's right. So it will be the best 15 bucks you spend this calendar year, I promise you.

Go check them out. And again, all these other new, the friends, the couples, and the parents and kids are all edition three. So they're all brand new questions. Go pick them up. So are you actually going to air the commercial with the saxophone in it on this one? Yeah, you can go to, you can, I think it's going to launch here in a second on all the social media channels. But the guys here in the building, Wes Freitas and the team created maybe the greatest commercial I've ever been a part of.

for the intimacy deck. It's fantastic. It's really funny. That's the hardest I've seen Dave laugh in a long time. It's good. Two or three people are like, Dave's not going to let that air. And I'm like, oh no, that's definitely going on the air. That's hilarious. So.

The person I'm most worried about is my 14-year-old. He's going to have to answer for that with his high school buddies, but that's fine. Yeah, this is what happens when your dad does stuff. I just told him, if you get to go to college one day, just know that the intimacy deck paid for it. Could be the questions for humans intimacy deck paying the dad tuition. I'm just saying. That's right.

All of a sudden, he'll have respect. Questions for him? Go to RamseySolutions.com slash store. Oh, yeah. Definitely get all that in the store. The three new editions of the other ones are out, plus this new...

Red box. The red box. Hey, I want it to be black with an X on it, and I got vetoed, so there you go. Jesse's in San Antonio. Hi, Jesse. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, fellas. Happy Monday. Happy Monday. What's up in your world?

Well, I'm trying to figure out what my next step is. Uh, I'm my wife and I are 39 and, uh, Lord willing, if all goes according to plan, then, uh, this time next month, we'll be bringing our new baby girl. Thank you. And so we, uh, we, we've been talking for a while, uh, planning on my wife staying home after our daughter is born. And, uh, so we'll be living off of my income. We're, we're debt free. I'm a pastor of a church and, uh,

We've got our emergency fund in order, and so now I'm considering myself on baby step 3B or 4. I'm set up to have 15% of my income in retirement, but I'm also thinking about possibly having to own a home one day. Right now we live in a church-owned house, and so I don't need

to buy a home. And so I'm trying to figure out balancing saving for a down payment on a house, preferably 100%, right? But then also making sure I have retirement dollars. Yeah, we've worked with pastors for 30 years in these situations. And it's almost as if the ending of the parsonage surprises them at some point.

Oh, I didn't see that coming. Well, yeah, you did for 30 years. You saw it coming. And but there's something about the process that lulls you to sleep. So don't do that. If I'm in your shoes, I'm gonna start paying myself a house payment at a minimum into a mutual fund separate from all the baby step stuff. If you don't want to actually start saving for a down payment aggressively, that's fine. But just you don't have a house payment. So pay one.

Right. And so, I guess... Why do you seem sad about that, Jesse? Well, I think it comes down to, you know, how much can I actually put aside for, I guess, paying myself a house payment. Well, I mean, you don't necessarily have to pay yourself a $4,000 a month house payment. What's your household income going to be with her staying home? $4,000. About $4,000 to take home?

Right. Okay. So, I mean, if it's $500 or $1,000, that'd be fine with me. Yeah. Okay. And so I guess what you're saying is go ahead and put that aside and continue investing in retirement. Yeah. If you slow down your retirement a little bit in baby step four, because you're saving for a house, that would not be an unusual baby step three B. The only difference here is, is we don't have an immediate need for a house.

Right. And so I was like, I don't feel like I need to be as aggressive since I don't need to actually move. Yeah, that's why I'm saying only $500. Because $500 is only, you know, that's $6,000 a year. $1,000 is only $12,000 a year. You're not going to get a house anytime soon doing that. So paying yourself a house payment is slowing down. That's what I was talking about. If you were aggressively going to buy a house by this time next year, you'd have to do more than that, right?

Say that again. I'm sorry. I said if you were going to buy a home this time next year, you'd have to be saving more than $1,000 a month. Oh, yeah. Well, I don't need to buy a home as I know. I know that. But I'm saying you're so your baby step three B is different. So we're going to lighten it up and say, all right, we might do 10% into retirement. And I, you know, 500 to $1,000 house payment into a mutual fund because these things are

There's a bunch of times, it's interesting, Pastor, I just, I don't flash through my head, so I'm going to say it. I actually remember in a Bible study one time, a Bible teacher I had 20 years ago walked through, and we went through and studied all the times in the Bible it says suddenly, and suddenly occurs never, but it always says suddenly. It's like you could see it coming, see it coming, see it coming, and then suddenly, boom, you know, and

That's what's going to happen here. You're going to have suddenly, but it's not really suddenly. Does that make any sense? Yeah, and my whole career has been showing up when a real suddenly happens, right? So you have the planned plane landing, and the number of pastors I've sat with personally who have said, I didn't see it coming. One of the elders or one of the board members didn't like this sermon, and they, man, it's

I want to know that now you're looking for a job and you're a renter and you got to find a house and a job in the same weekend, man. Um, dude, I, yeah, I, that makes me just uncomfortable and nervous and nervous and uncomfortable, Dave. Yeah. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna plan. It's an okay thing for today. It's a nice benefit for today. It's not a bad thing. There's nothing evil about a parsonage. Um, and,

Of course, a lot of churches do a housing allowance that is tax deductible now for pastors, if you didn't know that. Think of it this way. If you don't save a house payment and you put all your money into a retirement and you make it all the way through and then you retire.

You're going to immediately be pulling out of that saved retirement to buy a house. Yep. You're going to be doing it anyway. Yep. So you might as well plan for if you get offloaded on a weekend that you don't see coming. That's exactly where we are. That's perfect. That's a good way of looking at it, a good way of saying it. So anyway, yeah, let's back it and do 10% or so. If that helps you figure out the actual numbers of what you were planning to do, 10% on your end of retirement would be $400 a month. 15% would be $600 a month.

And so if you, you know, back it off to 400 and you say, I'm going to pay myself a $500 house payment. Um, I think that's acceptable for today. At least then you're not going to be caught completely flat footed. If suddenly is suddenly, um,

But that's the thing I'm looking for there is just to try to keep some plans. The mind of man knows his ways, but the Lord directs his paths. That's what we're looking for here. And so it's wisdom into the future. We're looking into the future trying to see what's there. We're fortune tellers or something like that. It's just wisdom.

So good question, sir. We appreciate you. Congratulations on the new baby. Appreciate you serving that congregation there in San Antonio. I'm sure they're blessed. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, you're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.