Make Decisions With the Future in Mind (Not the Present)
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, and Ph.D. in counseling. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Marie is in Washington, D.C. Hi, Marie. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yeah, so I'm calling because I'm wondering if I should be more forthcoming about my financial situation with my parents in order to gain, I guess, credibility on the topic of personal finance. What need credibility from your parents?

Yeah, so over the years, I've tried to share the baby steps because I've had

success with them and nothing has quite stuck. I've gifted them the book in print and in audio. I've also gifted them like budgeting app subscriptions and even still I've watched them make bad financial decisions over the years. And recently my dad started talking about Rothschilds

Roth IRAs. And I was like surprised that this term was in his vocabulary. So when I asked him what spurred him on, he was telling me about this YouTuber and TikToker that he's been watching. And as he was showing me the videos, I couldn't help but think like, gee, my dad is more like willing to listen to a random stranger on the internet over his own daughter.

That's probably always going to be the case. You're suffering from what we call powdered butt syndrome. Once someone has powdered your butt, they don't want your opinion on money or sex. Generally speaking, I mean, it's a rare parent relationship on a rare subject that the kid speaks into the parent's life until the parent is somewhere around 80. It does sometimes, but it's...

You're never a prophet in your own land, Jesus said, right? And this is your land. So it's very, very, very difficult. And I'll just tell you, the vast majority of my family, Sharon's family, does not do the stuff we teach.

Oh, wow. Tens of millions of Americans do, but not my people. So, I mean, that, you know, they like what we do. They think it's impressive and they're proud of us for helping people. But, you know, there's a handful of them do it and the rest of them don't. I'm just saying. So they just kind of look at us like we're, you know, vegetarians or something. Like we're weird, you know what I mean? It's like, and so, yeah.

Anyway, the only hope you've got is not to tell them what to do, which is what you're searching for credibility on. Your only hope is just to tell your story and say, you know, Dad, I was out of control. I was in chaos.

And when I started doing a budget, I had this experience. And then I started working these baby steps, and then I had this experience. And now, gosh, I know you'd be really proud of me. Now I've got X number of dollars in my 401K, and this stuff really worked for me. And I'm just so excited. And you just tell your story. Don't even bring them up. If they then say...

Well, that'll never work for me. You could just say, well, it might. It might. If you want to talk about it anytime, I'm here to help. But then please just have your expectations really low. The secret to happiness is low expectations. I don't think you're going to have a, unless it's a very unusual situation, a high percentage of the time, you're not going to have a high influence over your parents. Can I tell you why, Marie? Yeah, go for it. Because this is not a you problem. This is a him problem.

And I love the fact that you have been searching high and low for what you're doing wrong in communication, but you're not doing anything wrong. He's pretty lucky to have you as a daughter. Yeah. Yeah. He just, he literally can't see it. I just don't want you to have the expectation that he's going to suddenly go, oh, that little girl that I taught to ride the bicycle in the backyard is now a millionaire. You know, it just, our brains just don't work that way very well.

It's very unusual. I'm thinking of my grown kids right now who I've got great relationships with. They run segments of our life, our business. I've been in the room when they try to tell Dave what to do, and it's incredible. It generally doesn't go well. It does not go well. It's just like, I mean, I'm, you know, and even though, you know, sometimes if they do it three or four times, I'll hear it. But the first time, even, and I'm in a room where I'm asking for this, but no, it's,

you know, especially when you get on a personal level and that that's in a business situation. So here's where, um, Marie, here's where you can elevate the whole, the maturity of the whole interaction. Do you want to tell your dad about this, this Ramsey plan and this get out of debt plan? Because you want him to look at you at the end of the day and be like, man, you really saved us. You did a great job daughter. I'm proud of you. Thank you. Or,

Do you want him to learn about the Ramsey stuff, this plan? Because you want your dad to have a better relationship with money and to finally have peace inside his home. Because if that's what you want, wherever he gets this information, let's cheer him on for it. If he gets it from a TikToker and he comes to you and says, hey, I'm going to pay off all my debts. And maybe that TikToker is George Campbell, by the way. But I'm going to pay off all my debts. I'm going to start putting some money in some Roths. Let's exhale money.

That's our ego. And let's just be happy that dad's making some better choices with money. If it's about, hey, I need him. This is going to be my avenue for him to be proud of me. Finally, have that conversation with him. Ask him directly, daddy, are you proud of me? Or do you think I'm doing a good job? This doesn't as a young adult, let him have that conversation, but don't use this as a proxy. Otherwise you're going to make yourself bonkers doing that. Yeah. Yeah. And, and please really don't expect for you to be the solution.

If it is, it's wonderful, but it's highly unusual. And the only possible way with the people closest to you is to not tell them what they're doing wrong, but instead just tell them about your story. No one can argue about your story.

This is my story. This is what I did. This is when I was scared. This is when I goofed up. And when I changed that and I started doing this other thing, it started working. And here's where I am now. And this is, and then I went through this and then I sold a car and then I did this and then I did that. And you just walk through your story. It's your story. Nobody can debate your story. You can debate the theoretical probabilities of the baby steps, but you can't really debate your story.

And you especially can't, I think we talk a lot about the trees, Dave. You can't debate the fruit. And if people see you always picking up the tab at dinner and you drive in a car that you don't owe any money on and you just bought a nice house that you put 50% down on, they begin to ask that question, what are you doing differently? It's the same in our church circles. We always tell people, no one's ever started following Jesus because they lost an argument. They just see that

Man, that guy's got more light and joy in his life. I want to learn about that. So you mean hateful Christian posts on YouTube don't lead people to Jesus? I haven't seen it yet. I haven't seen it yet. Who knew? So you guys in the comments section, it's not working for you. Who knew? Yeah, there you go. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Happy birthday, America, you big, beautiful beast, you. Absolutely incredible. Best country in the world. You don't believe me? Try visiting some of the other places. You'll come back here going, oh, wow, we got warts, but we're gorgeous.

Unbelievable. Wow. Very cool. Hey, 4th of July flash sale right here at Ramsey from today through Sunday, July the 7th. We're going to have the lowest prices we have had in over 12, 14 months. $10 for the Baby Steps Millionaire's book. $10 for Own Your Past, Change Your Future. Number one bestseller from the guy to my right, Dr. John Deloney. Paycheck to Purpose by Ken Coleman. $10. $10.

Know yourself, know your money by that Rachel Cruz woman. $10. Get it all for $10. Not bad at all. Ramsey Personality stuff and more, by the way. Flash sale. Flash sale. 4th of July flash sale. Just through Sunday. So don't miss this. Check it out. Ramseysolutions.com slash sale. Jump in the store. You'll see all the goodies going on. It's a deal. There's some deals. Tyler's in Houston, Texas. Hey, Tyler. What's up?

Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. My wife and I watch your show all the time, and we love what you're doing and what you stand for. Thank you, sir. Yes, sir. So I had a question for you. I'm dealing with some fear and anxiety, I guess, with potentially buying a new house. So my wife and I, we purchased a home in 2020 in a lower-income, lower-tier school environment.

And we have two little girls, four year old and a two year old looking to get them in some better schools and getting them in a different area. So we currently right now owe 199,000 on the current home. We could probably sell this one for around 300 to 320. We currently have a 2.9% interest rate. So we're paying about 1500 a month.

The new house is about 390. We could probably bring that down to 370, the 6.75% interest rate. So that's putting us around 2,500 to 2,800 in payments, which puts us within that 25% to 30% wheelhouse that you're looking at. I'm getting about 10,000 a month, so 160,000 to 170,000 a year.

We have no debt, $35,000 six-month rainy day fund. So I'm trying to decide if this is a right move or not. It is. You need to do it. Okay. Yeah, you're fine. Because there's two things that are going to happen in the future, three things that are going to happen in the future maybe, two of them for sure. Number one, your income is going to go up long term. Agreed.

Yes, sir. Number two, the house value is going to go up long term. And in a better neighborhood, it's going to go up more than in a not so good neighborhood. Agreed? Yes, sir. Okay. So both of those things are going to make this a smarter investment every day after you buy it. So your point of greatest strain is the first day. And every day after that, the strain diminishes. Follow me? The third thing that could happen is rates could go down and you could refinance.

Right. So we marry the house, we date the rate. The mortgage is not permanent. Okay. You're not stuck with the mortgage. Makes me feel better hearing that from you because I've been beating myself up over it. I think you're being wise beyond belief.

compared to your neighbors compared to the average American walking around right now who would have just went yeah give me that I want that I'll take one of those and yeah an adjustable rate mortgage while rates are going up and stupid but statements like that and so that's you know because I want one and I deserve it and I have a smartphone that gives me everything I want so no one can tell me no about anything and they go buy crap they can't afford you're not you're not even close you're not on that spectrum dude you're being very wise you're

So your anxiety is just due to you being reasonably conservative and you're thinking about this. And if your anxiety makes sure that you do a budget and it makes sure that you don't overspend on a bunch of new furniture or something when you move into the house or going to debt to buy a new car after you move into the house or something silly like that, if your anxiety tempers your stuff, then the anxiety is doing its job, right, John? That's exactly right. Does that sound good, Tyler? Yeah.

Yes, sir. Yeah. I, you know, before I met my wife, I was, you know, as Dave said, spending like I was in Congress and, uh, and making some poor decisions. And then, you know, now that I have a family, two little girls, I think, you know, that, that weight of that, um, good husband. Yeah. Good dad. Yeah. Yeah. You're showing up for your family, man. And know that your anxiety is right here. Yeah. Like it's, it's,

throwing up the caution flags are you thinking this through you're doing this right so it's it's it's doing its job and we're going to do the next right move i'm getting awfully close to the edge here i'd kind of want anxiety to tell me that right because you're on the your numbers are on the bubble you're right you're you know you go much further up than this you're going to have a problem yes sir yes sir you know you're you were right you walk right up to the edge of the of the guidelines and maxed them out but i think you're going to be okay uh i really do i i

You know, as far as would the Ramsey Show folk, me included, tell you to do this deal? Yeah, we just did. So that's simple. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jesse's in Los Angeles. Hi, Jesse. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I actually have a question about my current 401k. Okay. Okay.

And it's a traditional 401k. And I'm wondering if I'm able to take my traditional into a full-off 401k. Yes, but you'll have to pay taxes on it. Oh, okay. There's no penalty, but there's taxes. So what's the balance? The balance is $226,000. Okay. So you're going to need $50,000. You got an extra $50,000 laying around?

Not currently. Okay, no, then I wouldn't do it. Okay. Today. Now, what you can do is change your contributions from this day forward into Roth. Oh, okay, and will the same... It doesn't change anything then. You just say, okay, the money I was putting into the 401k traditional, now I want to put it into 401k Roth, and that's fine. That doesn't cost you anything.

I mean, you may have a little bit of a tax bill, but it's tiny, tiny, tiny. Then later on when you get your house paid off and you got some extra money, if you want to flip the rest of this over and you got some extra money and you want to get it growing tax-free, then yeah, it's a good move to do it. But it's not a good move, you know, like while you're trying to get out of debt or while you're trying to do other stuff. Yes.

And on a side note of that, I have to thank Dr. Deloney. I called not too long ago, sold my truck. He said to sell it on the weekend, sold it, and I just went from a $50,000 bet to $22,000. Whoa, nice move. Way to go, man. Jesse in Los Angeles selling a truck. My baby. Did you cry just a little?

Not a little. I did. I saw that Jaguar all those years ago. I cried just a little. I was that little too attached to a dadgum car. Are you married, Jesse? I'm not. I'm not. I'm single. Wow. Man, you really stepped up. I'm proud of you. Good for you. Yeah, not a lot of single guys selling their trucks, man. You just moved up even more cool points, brother. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're like a grown-up and stuff. Way to go, man. I'm proud of you. Good work. Very good work.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. So the Roth, when we're talking about putting your money in your retirement and baby step four, 15% going into retirement and good growth stock mutual funds, I spread mine and I suggest you do two across four types, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. Pick good long track records, preferably 10 years or longer. So you've got predictable environment for these mutual funds.

and you can project what you're going to get out of that. The best place you can put money is where you get a match. The second best place to put money is Roth, 401k, Roth IRA, because it grows tax-free. The third best place is traditional. So it's almost rock, paper, scissors, but it goes only one direction. Match beats Roth beats traditional.

So you max your match out, you max your Roth out until you get to 15%. If you're still not there and one of your spouses only has a traditional available, then you do the traditional as your last step to get to the 15% in baby step four. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

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That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, we do the show every Monday through Friday from 1 to 4 Central Time. You're welcome to come hang out, watch, have a free homemade chocolate chip cookie, some free coffee, and watch the show. And it's free to watch, and some say it's worth what you pay for it. So there you go.

On the debt-free stage in the lobby, though, is Joseph and Candace. Hey, guys, how are you? Doing great, Dave. We're great. Excellent, excellent. Welcome. Where do y'all live? So we're just outside of Atlanta, Georgia, in Stone Mountain. Oh, yeah. I know it well. Well, cool. How much debt did y'all pay off? Oh, we paid off $47,500. Cool. How long did that take?

About 16 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? We started at $107,000 and got it up to about $120,000 with some side hustles and pay raises. Cool. What do y'all do for a living? I'm an IT specialist at a Christian school. And I'm an elementary school librarian. I'm at a public school. Awesome. Very cool. And what was the most lucrative side hustle, the one you made the most money at?

We actually did a cleaning side hustle where we went to a small business and did cleaning for them. So that was for... That's really... You can make good money doing that. Yeah. And it's hard work, but it's... Man, it's amazing. Well, cool. Yeah. Very cool. Good for you. What kind of debt was the 48 grand? We had student loans. I had about 3,500, and then she had some from undergrad. And then I also had a personal loan that I'd used to start a small business, but since I have closed that...

Ouch. Yeah. It was a life lesson. Close the dream and then you get to pay payments on the dream. Yeah, that's called a nightmare. Yeah. Ouch. No fun at all. Wow. How long you guys been married? About three years. Just celebrated our three year anniversary in June. Okay. So after you're married about a year, you look up and go, debt is everywhere. I've had it. Tell me about your I've had it moment. What was it brought you to the where you go, okay, we're doing this.

Well, I had heard of you since I was in college. FPU was actually taught at the church I was going to, so I was familiar with Ramsey. But we didn't really actually get into it until we got married. I had picked up the book, The Total Money Makeover. I read it.

And we had talked about it. She listened to the audio book. And from then on, we I took out that personal loan for the business. That was really the I've had it moment. It's like I felt like we went back $20,000 from where we're already at. And, you know, you see the payments just kind of increase and stuff like that. So it's like something's got to give here. Right.

So we went through Financial Peace University a second time. Yep, had to do it twice to kind of get it through and really get us on the plan. Well, I mean, there's before marriage, after marriage. So went through it a second time together, kind of like New Year's resolutions. And we just went gazelle intense. We got the EveryDollar app, started budgeting. Had been budgeting on paper before that, but EveryDollar is way better than paper. So really from that point on, we were gazelle intense and took everything we had, basically learned to live on one income and throw the rest of it at debt.

So Candice, when Joseph goes after something, he kind of goes all in. Oh yeah. Yeah. So at what point in this process did you decide he wasn't crazy? Instead, you wanted to go all in. Pretty much the same after the personal alone. I think it both hit us at the same time and we looked at each other and said, okay, we got to do something about this. This ain't cool. It's not cool. Something's got to give. What was your biggest fight as y'all worked through this?

I don't think we really had a huge, I think really it was the, the, the personal loan. It was a, it was a little bit of a debate as to whether to take it out. Cause I was trying to kind of keep the business alive and stuff like that to kind of pay for, you know, employees and stuff like that. So it was really like, do we take it out? Don't we take it out? Oh, it's only, you know, you know, a $375 a month payment. And, you know, so we ended up doing it and, you know, but when we kind of got on the, on the same page and everything like, it's like, okay, let's just get rid of

all of this and let's just do it as fast as we can. So Joseph, that was the most husband answer. We didn't really have a fight. Let's be clear. Candace told him not to do it. Candace. Let's be clear. And he didn't listen. And he had a spreadsheet and he was like, no, no, you don't understand. Here's what's going to happen. And she was like, I don't feel good about it. And he's like, no, no, you don't get it. And

This is a classic. Then he was like, do you want to take FPU again? Candice, if you talk to Sharon Ramsey, she'll tell you I did the exact same thing. It's okay. So when you're sitting at the kitchen table, who wins the great debate in your home, private school versus public school?

I feel like we're both on the same page in that, you know, like, I mean. You don't have to answer that. I'll just mess it up. You're good. One of y'all will get fired if you answer that honestly, so we can just let it ride. Thanks, John. Never do that. That's not good, yeah. Way to go, guys. I'm so proud of you. Who was cheering you on as you were doing this?

um definitely uh we have some a great church family we've uh i had some co-workers that have been through fpu and are actually baby steps millionaires so once i kind of told them that i was going through this process they were you know checking in on me weekly like how's it going um you know her parents my brother it was just we had a great support group very good very cool all right when people say how'd you pay off forty eight thousand dollars in 16 months what do you tell them the key to getting out of debt is

I would definitely say if you're married, working together, being on the same page. We had budget meetings every month and sat down and talked about it to be sure we're on the same page. We both had every dollar to keep each other accountable. So definitely good teamwork and communication. And I would just add to that, just having perseverance because life is still going to hit you even when you're going through this debt payoff journey.

Like for example, I actually got in a car accident last August and my car was totaled. And you're so tempted to take that insurance money and just be like, oh, let's just do the easy thing. Let's go down to the dealership, put a down payment on a car, call it all good, wipe our hands.

But I didn't do that because we were in this. It's like, I can't do debt anymore. I'm done with debt. So I just took the money I could and bought a beater car and still driving it today. But it gets me from point A to point B. What are you driving? I'm driving a 2007 Honda CRV with about 200,000 miles on it right now. Okay, cool. What'd you pay for it? About $5,000.

Okay, and how much insurance proceeds did you get from the total? $4,700. Oh, wow. So that was it. So you were already driving a beater. Yeah, yeah. I was driving a 2008. This is amazing how God works. I was driving a 2008 Honda CR-V with about $275,000.

Crash that, get a 2007 with $200,000. So I rolled back the miles, and, you know, it's a year difference, but it's, you know, the LX brand, so it's got, you know, the heated seats and the sunroof. Dude, that car is halfway home. You're going to have that car for a long time. Wow, that's pretty cool. Yeah, heated seats, sunroof, and a beater. I know, yeah. They didn't make beaters like that back in the day. All right, way to go, man. You guys, that's good stories. Good stories. Well done. So proud of y'all. How does it feel to be free?

Feels amazing. We feel like we can do anything now. Yeah, definitely brought us closer together. Like once we've done this, like whatever we put our minds to, there's,

It only goes up from here. It's really exciting. We're working on the baby step three right now, doing the fully funded emergency fund. It should be done in a couple months. But just continue to have those dream meetings and realizing this is actually doable. This is possible. And to folks watching and listening, just get started. Don't wait another day. Just do it. Joseph, what's the biggest lesson you learned? I know what it is. I can answer it for you.

She's probably right. Listen to the wife for sure. You'll have another scheme one day and she'll just look at you and then you'll go, oh yeah, all right, you're right. We'll remember, look back and be like, let's not do that again. Congrats, guys. You're right. She doesn't even have to say a thing. She gives him the FPU look. I like it.

Way to go, you guys. Way to go. So proud of you. Very, very cool stuff. Joseph and Ken to Stone Mountain, Georgia. $48,000 paid off. 16 months, 107 to 120, including side hustles, cleaning the local small business. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're done! This is how it's done.

Wow. Life is good. Pretty cool, John. That's so cool. Three years into their marriage. It's fun being almost 20 years past that, and they don't even realize how they've set themselves up. I think he kind of has a glimpse of it. I think he does. I can see it forward, yeah. But man, when they're multimillionaires 20 years from now. Encouraging some young couple just got married to pay off their stupid student loan debt. Yeah. Yeah.

Or their leftover loan from a failed business. Whatever, yeah. And he'll still be driving that Honda CR-V because it'll still be going. It probably will. It'll still be going. I hope he's not driving it. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Hi. I'm sorry I'm really nervous. It's okay. We've never lost a patient. You'll be okay. So I'm 19, and for all of my, for my two years of college that I've gone to so far, my dad has controlled all of my savings money, and he invests the big chunks of it and tries to make more money. He's been emotionally abusive in the past.

and he's decided in the last year that he does not want a relationship with me whatsoever. He wants to come out, but he doesn't want to give me access to my own savings. And so I'm wondering, as an adult, if that just doesn't feel right, if he chooses not to have a relationship with me, should he have control of my money? And also, you know,

He's legally obligated from the divorce to provide me with a car for work, and he won't give me a straight answer if he's going to give me a car to take to school. And then I can't get a job, and I'm in baby step two. Your money and your savings...

I assume he and your mom saved this money, or did you put the money into the account? Actually, it's my money. Growing up, the rule in my house was you have to put half of whatever you make into savings. He's like a big fan of yours. So I've been putting half of my money into savings, and I've worked really, really hard. Is your name on the account? I don't know. He says that it's my money, but I've never actually seen the account. You just gave the money to him when you were a kid?

Um, it was in my, yeah, when I was a kid and then when I got a bank account, um, I'd put it in my savings and then he would take out money whenever it got over a certain amount and he'd put it in the investment. Do you know what bank it's in? Um, well, the bank that I would put it in was the, was the, uh, local credit union. Yeah. But, um, I don't know where he's got it. You think he's moved it out of there?

I know he, I can see the bank. I know that he's moved, like he's told me he has like 13 grand in the investment and I've asked him for access to it but he just sends me pictures of statements and then he got mad at me for not thanking him for making money on my money. So if he took money out of an account with your name on it, I'm assuming his name was also on the account as a, if you were a minor and he,

He took money out. Yes. Well, I guess it's going to be a joint account. It could be he's the custodian of the account that's in your name. If you can figure out. Wait a minute. He sent you a statement. Yeah. So you know where the money is. Well, I haven't looked at it yet. Okay. Well, you know where the money is. Contact that financial institution if your name is on the statement and take the money out. Okay. That's easy.

And if you open up, it's got your name on it. No, I bet not. I bet he opened an account of his own and moved it over there, pulled it out of that credit union and stuck it over in his account. Cause he's going to quote unquote, make a bunch of money on it. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not sure this guy's that smart. Um,

The first thing you need to do is figure out if you can figure out where the money is and if it is your name on the account. It's a simple thing. Just walk up to the teller window and go, my name is Joe and here's my social security number. I want to close this account out and take the money out. And just take my money back in even though he's

It's your money. Take it. He's not helping you. He just said he's cutting you out. You just told me he wasn't helping you. I don't care what he supposedly is doing. I mean, the reality is you're telling me he's taking your money. That's what you're telling me. So all you're going to do is just not allow that to happen by moving it.

And you need to pull all the money out of this joint account you'll have and open your own account. Yeah, anything you can find that has your name on it, you're one of the owners. You have access to the money. You're 19 legally. You can walk up and just cash out the account. Just cash it out. Okay. And take the cash to somewhere else and open it exclusively in your name. And, Joe, you want me to tell you something else kind of cool? Yeah. What college do you go to?

I go to St. Louis University. Okay. I would be willing to bet almost every college these days has an office called Student Legal Services that helps students with things like traffic tickets and roommate disputes, but they're attorneys that serve students.

I want you to go sit down with them and ask them about the divorce decree. Ask your mom to send you that and tell them, I need this. And hopefully, here's what we're looking for. We're looking for one of those attorneys to write you a letter. Or write your dad a letter. Write your dad a letter on your behalf that I need my money back per this statement and I need access to the car per the divorce decree. And he's going to receive a letter from an attorney. And you've already paid for this attorney with your student fees.

Okay. And if you can't find the SLS office, the Student Legal Services office, go ask your dean of students office and they'll be able to direct you. Yeah. So you have a lawyer who's on staff to help you for free is what he's saying. Well, it's not for free, but he already paid for them. It's not going to cost you any cash. That's right. Yeah.

But first and foremost, open those statements and figure out where the money is. Go to that credit union and cash out anything that's in your name there and open that statement and see where he quote unquote invested this money. Get in touch with that investment outfit. If it's got your name on the account, your social security number on the account, you're one of the owners, simply cash it out. And then that puts you in where if you get all of that done, then you're just in the heartbreaking deal of dealing with

An emotionally abusive dad who doesn't want a relationship with you. That's the horrible thing. And I'd like to just put this out into the world to clarify something. That man is not a big fan of quote unquote Dave Ramsey.

Because Dave... He wouldn't be if he called here. Well, there's a financial... It wouldn't go well for him. But you also honor your children, and you also honor your spouse, and you honor your word. And that man doesn't do any of those things. Yeah. Yeah, so... I mean, it wouldn't... If he's a fan, it's at a distance, because if he got up close, it wouldn't be pleasant. Yeah. Yeah. That's just wrong. I mean, it's just... It's...

So, but, but, you know, what we've got is a divorce and everybody's mad and everybody's hurt and everybody's throwing stones and, you know, kids hurt, moms hurt, dads hurt, everybody's hurting and hurting people hurt other people. And, you know, that's what's going on. So who knows exactly, but yeah, either way, um, yeah, you've got it. You got to play through on these things and,

It's not, you know, you need to make decisions, folks, in these situations that play well over a 10-year period of time, not a 10-minute period of time. Because these are bad, they feel good in 10 minutes. I don't want a relationship with you. I'm a toxic jerk. Those are all short-term thinking. I mean, no one on their deathbed is glad that they lost their relationship with their kid. Not over 13,000 bucks. Yeah.

Good gosh. Or the ego of having reinvested it for you and you're not grateful. Yeah. Give me a break. This whole call reeks of ego, ego, ego, ego. And you're ungrateful. I was trying to help you. Yeah, I can do without your help. Instead of sitting by his daughter and saying, hey, I know you're in college, but your mom and I just got divorced and we just blew up your entire world.

and it's going to be hard for everybody, and I'm hurting. Instead of that, which is an emotionally mature response, it is, oh, you didn't make me feel good about what I did? Then fine. Screw you. I'm literally going to steal from you, and I'm going to hold it because you can't do anything about it. Dave, I can't wrap my head around it, man. All for your own good, though. That's the one. My daughter Josephine will be here later on, and we're going to spend a few days together, just us two, and

I can't ever wrap my head around making a choice that I'm going to break up this relationship. She's not a teenager yet. That's probably true. That is probably true. The thought will occur to you. No, trust me. The thought has occurred, but man, I just can't wrap my head around it. I told one of mine, you might talk to your mother that way, but no one talks to my wife that way and lives. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

But man, oh, man. Those are the teenage years. Oh, can you imagine a Ramsey kid having a mouth? Yes. You can imagine that, can't you? I can. That could happen. The fruit usually bounces up against the tree trunk on its way down. Oh, I love it. This is The Ramsey Show.

And heck,

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Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author of the book Building a Non-Anxious Life, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, PhD in Counseling. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jennifer is with us in Tampa. Hi, Jennifer, how are you? I'm great. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

First of all, I'm very grateful for you guys taking my call and I have probably a lot to unpack here to fully understand the financial picture that I'm in. I've known your name for a long time, so I basically have a lot riding on this phone call where it will probably change my life and be one of the... Just totally turn my life completely around.

My dad is gone, and I don't have him anymore to ask financial advice about. In fact, I figured you would be the next best thing. Wow. That's a lot of responsibility. Yeah, you've set this up big, Jennifer. This is a big deal. Don't screw it up, John. Dave is probably going to give you bad advice, Jennifer, but I'll bail him out.

The funny thing is I'm pretty sure that I already know what you guys are going to say. Oh, okay. That makes it easier. Okay. It does. Um, I'm 37. I'm a single mom, recently single mom of four kids. I'm a nurse. I make a decent income, a pretty decent income. Um, when my parents, I've actually lost both of my parents now. When my mom died, I inherited money, um,

from that split between me and my sister. My dad was very financially savvy and had things split all around with just different 401ks, Roth, life insurance, food insurance, gold,

Um, very, very smart man. And in the loss of my mother, I made a financial decision to sell my house and move to my childhood home that my parents raised us in. And moving there meant that I sunk just about every dime of my inheritance into remodeling it and fixing the property up. Cause when my dad died, my mom kind of just got swallowed up in this home. My question is, um,

I am only, between mortgage and student loan credit card debt, I'm only $320,000 in debt, which sounds like a lot, but the house is worth $1.1 million. Why do you have a mortgage? My parents had a little bit left of a mortgage on the property because... Okay, how much is that? At one point, it's $125,000. Okay, and then the rest of the rehab on the house was done in cash?

Correct. Okay. What did you spend on the renovation? I owe my sister $125,000 as well because that was kind of like the buyout for me taking over the house. So basically I have essentially like a $250 mortgage on the house, if that makes any sense. Yeah, I got you. Okay. Okay. And then the rest of that is student loan and credit card. And what's your sister's expectation on when she gets her money?

It has changed. So neither one of us knew what to do really when we lost our parents with the money and it has changed over time. Initially it was that I would pay her 50 grand a year until what I owed her was paid off. And then we realized, well, that puts me in a certain tax bracket and then I'm going to be taxed on this income and it just kind of didn't really seem fair. So then the next plan that my sister and I have... You're not going to be taxed on the income. She is.

But it's not income. Well, no, I would be taxed on it because the money I would pay my sister came from the investment accounts that my parents had. Oh, you would pull it out of a return, an inherited IRA. Okay, okay. Correct, yes. All right, I got you. So how much is in the inherited IRAs and that kind of stuff today? Today, right now, everything is essentially gone. It may as well be gone. Oh, you've used it all. You have cashed it out and paid the taxes after all. And what do you make? Yes, I have.

I make $45,000 an hour. It changes by year based off of what... In Florida, we can get seasonal here with snowboards and urban such. So my annual... So you're making, what is that, $80,000 a year? Yeah, it's usually that at least. Yeah, okay. And how old are your kiddos for? 20, 17, 5, and 3. I started very, very young. Okay, all right. And...

Okay, and so you have a $120,000 mortgage, $120,000 owed to your sister, and then you have other debt as well, right? Correct. And that's on what? $58,000 in student loans and $10,000 in credit card. Okay, all right. Well, if you were not emotionally attached to the house, you would have already sold it, right? Yes.

So that's kind of what I figured you would say. To be free. Because I could turn around. Yeah, if you were not emotionally attached to this house, the house is like, it's out of, everything else in this picture fits in the picture. Then there's this house over here that's way big, you know, in terms of value. And if you didn't, if it was not childhood home, you'd not renovate it, you weren't emotionally attached, you would have already sold it and cleaned up the mess before you called me, right?

I thought I was doing the right thing at the time. I'm not picking on you. I'm saying, again, let's pretend this house was somebody else's house and you didn't care about it. You're not emotionally attached. If you woke up this morning in a house you did not care about in any way, you would have already sold it today and you wouldn't have called me to clean up all this, right?

Yes. Yeah. But the only, so the only thing that's keeping you there is all of the history and that's valid. That's part of the story. It's valid for that to hold you. Um, the only question is what, you know, basically then you got the scales in front of you on one side of the scales is the history and the memories and,

And the part of your childhood you're trying to recapture, which is apparently a good family, a good upbringing, you know, huge respect to your dad several times. Your house kind of represents all that on one side of the scale. On the other side of the scale is the stress over money, the debt owed to your sister that now you don't really have a way to pay unless you go get a mortgage.

and the stress of this whole thing, and your future is on the other side of the scale. It's almost like your past is on one side and your future is on the other. Exactly. That's how it feels just talking to you. So what are you going to do? What are you going to do? I feel like if I sell the house and I'm 100% debt-free for the rest of my life, and that, I feel, would be a decision my parents could support. And I think that's the daughter that your dad raised. Okay. Yeah.

Didn't he? I have a lot of guilt because I spent the money that they earned. You didn't spend it. You invested it in renovating the house. It should have made the house more valuable. Oh, it certainly did. Yeah, so you're not, it wasn't consumed. You didn't take a cruise around the world. No. I mean, it wasn't, the money's not, you didn't burn the money. It's invested into the house. You're going to get it back out. I don't feel guilty at all. I think you were doing a very sweet thing.

an honoring thing to your wonderful childhood. And then I think the next step is to honor the legacy of your dad and mom by having an awesome future. I think the future wins on the scales. If I'm you, Don, what are you thinking? Yeah, I think in one fell swoop, he could, she could honor her dad by setting herself up for the future. She could honor her mom and dad by healing up that relationship with her sister and getting that debt out from between the two of them.

And all this regret and guilt and stuff about the renovation and all, it's in the past then. And it wasn't a net zero. It came out okay. That's right. I think you did pretty good. This is The Ramsey Show.

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NMLS ID 1591. NMLS ConsumerAccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jerry's with us in Phoenix. Hi, Jerry. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, thanks, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

So I'm 58. My wife is 57. About three months ago, we started the Baby Step program. Actually, we started off pretty well. We paid off $13K in credit card debt, $9K in car debt. We're under the big one. Outside of our home, we've got $210K in parent plus student loans. Ouch. Yeah. So, you know, we make about $220 a year. So, fortunately, we do have some – we have an income stream of

But, you know, so here's where we sit with our assets and also retirement. So we've got $45K in cash, $45K in Roth IRAs, $170 in long-term retirement accounts. Okay.

monthly expenses about $7,500. So outside of that, we've got about $3,000 that we can put towards debt. So where we're kind of struggling right now is this combination of, you know, we're getting, we're older, right? We're getting closer to retirement or retirement age. Where do we, do we, you know, we're kind of straddling baby step two and three. We've already obviously done baby step one. We've got cash in three. But

but obviously this debt we want to get out of. My question is, should we look at that cash that we have, maybe split that in half? Because right now, 45K puts us right at six months of a safety fund. Light dispersed simply lights a room. Focused will do surgery or cut metal. You're trying to light the whole room and wondering why you're not getting progress.

You're going to have to get focused, and that's going to mean cutting your lifestyle. You're going to have to not act like you make a quarter of a million dollars a year because, oh, by the way, you owe a quarter of a million dollars. You're broke. And if you're worried about your age and you're approaching retirement, you should act like it and how—

austere scorched earth your new lifestyle looks with your budget and it's not three thousand dollars a month then it's more going towards this and we're going to pull out all the stops and clean up this mess while we can because if we don't get this mess cleaned up we're not going to have a good retirement

So the faster and the more on fire that your hair is, the deeper you sacrifice, the faster you'll get out. And that requires complete focus, not trying to rework the baby steps. Yeah. So, you know, one of the things I'm juggling with, my wife and I are actually on the same page however she's,

a little more risk averse than I am. And so, you know, taking that cash that we have and really paying down the debt to her, she's really uneasy about that. Yeah, I'm pretty uneasy about you being broke people at retirement after you made a quarter million dollars a year. That's the risk I'm trying to avoid. Okay. Not your tiny little emergency world that the $45,000 won't even pee on.

What about the Roth IRAs? You think we should... No, you should leave your retirement alone, but you should stop adding to it. Are you still adding to retirement? Yeah, I mean, doing it where, you know, a small percent do work. See, again, you're trying to light the whole room. You're trying to do everything for everybody on this page, and nobody's getting served.

Dude, that's the differentiation between what we've been teaching and how we've been able to move people along all these years. You have to quit trying. The best way to get your retirement funded is to get your butt out of debt. The best way to get your emergency fund in place is to get your butt out of debt and quit screwing around trying to do seven things at once. You're not doing it. You suck at it. And it's what got you here.

And so you've got to, you know, you guys have really got to stop and look at this. Now you can do your plan if you want to do it, but you called me. And so that means I'm going to love you well and tell you the truth. This is what you're doing has a low probability of getting you to a million dollar net worth by the time you're 70. What I'm telling you to do has a high probability of getting you there because I want all of this debt gone forever.

In the next 24 months, I want you to act like your child's life depends on it for you to clean up this freaking mess. Then when you don't have anything hanging over your head, you got a quarter million dollars to go build wealth with. And you can turn all kinds of stuff into at that point and make things happen. But the power of focus is tantamount to the probability of success here, John. Yeah, it...

I want to add to that. You're right. It's just tough when you see somebody who's clearly successful and smart in one area and unable to see it or hear it in another area. It's just tough. Well, what you are seeing correctly, Jerry, is all of these things are important. What you're seeing incorrectly is the fastest way to get them all addressed.

is not simultaneously. It's completely stop your retirement. Don't take anything out, but stop adding to it. Clean out your emergency fund and step on your lifestyle with a muddy boot. Live like no one else so that later you can live like no one else. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness. In two years, you could have your life back.

Right. Think of it. Take money aside because it tends to light a fire. Think of getting your kid out the door. You have 15 minutes to get them out into the car so you don't get to church on time. If you try to put them in the shower and put clothes on them and brush their teeth and feed them breakfast at the same time, you're never going to go anywhere. Get them in the shower. Get them out. Dry them off. Put clothes on them. You'll get out the door much quicker and you'll get out the door in the right steps and you're not going to just have soggy cereal.

Wyatt is in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Hi Wyatt, how are you? Good, how are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. What's up? So I have a question. I had recently bought a car off Facebook Marketplace about two months ago because the car I had before that died on me and I just got word I'd had it in and out of the shop the past couple weeks. I just got word yesterday that it

is going to need either like a full engine swap or they're going to have to pull the whole engine in general. Yeah, so you're going to sell it for salvage. What did you pay for it? $2,800. All right, and so you'll sell it for a grand or $1,200 like it sits. And you got any money to add with it? Well, I just recently started the baby steps, so I have $1,000 saved up. All right, so you're going to go buy another $2,000 car then, huh? Yeah. That's cool. Nothing wrong with that. Yeah, where am I?

Yeah, that's where my question is. Do you recommend me to do that? Yes. Like go on Facebook or try to risk it again? Yeah, yeah. You're buying a throwaway car. I don't want you to drive this car the rest of your life. They generally do fall apart. That's why they're cheap. Now, I will help you for this. Are you at home? Are you living at home? I live about 30 minutes away from home in town. I just graduated college. Okay, good for you. Is your dad around?

Yeah. Okay. Start talking to him and ask him to help you with this car search. Here's what you're looking for. You're looking for an ugly automobile that you can't get a date because of the car. You better be good looking because you ain't getting a date because of this car. It's ugly, okay? But it's very reliable, low miles, okay?

And it's like a 2000 model, 1999, 25-year-old Honda Accord. Jesus said to get that. He said they're all in one Accord. So you just, it's a Jesus car, okay? We're going to get a Camry. We're going to get something with some age on it, but not 200,000 miles. And it does not look good. It may have hail damage.

Like, we had two people in our parking lot right now that drive hail-damaged cars. They're like $6,000, $7,000 cars, but they paid like two grand for them because they looked like they were shot in Iran. Right? Yeah. And so that's what you're looking for. All right? You're looking for something that people make fun of, and you have to give it a name. Old Bessie. Old Blue.

Henrietta. Old Dave. What? Old John the Mule. Old John the Mule. This is the Ramsey Show. The best way to make the most of your money is by creating and sticking to a plan. In the money world, we call that a budget. Every dollar, the world's best budgeting app with tens of millions of users makes it simple.

To plan your spending, track your expenses, save what matters most, work the baby steps, get guidance from us as you go along. Oh, wow. Keep a pulse on your spending. Make the progress with your money goals. Be in agreement with your spouse. Both of you have the app on your phone. Ding, ding, ding. Download every dollar.

for free in the app store or Google Play. Check it out at DaveRamsey.com or check it out at RamseySolutions.com or EveryDollar.com. And yeah, that's what you ought to do. Jackson's with us. Jackson's in Montgomery, Alabama. Hey, Jackson, what's going on? Hi, Dave. First of all, thank you for having me on the show. Super excited. I'm

So I am 21 years old, married with a three-month-old kid, or not three months anymore, excuse me, five months old, and recently separated from the military. And my wife and I are roughly $16,000, $17,000 in debt, and we have no idea which way is up. We're just kind of stuck. We don't really know how to get out of all this debt is our big issue. How old are you?

21. Thanks for your service. Why were you separated from the military?

Yeah, I was 10 days away from graduation of basic and we found out that I had a medical condition that I'm not allowed to serve with, unfortunately, which really sucks because we kind of put all of our eggs in that basket because we were in debt before I went and we knew that we were going to make a lot of money, but hopefully enough to kind of get us, you know, in the right direction. So now, you know, just got home probably roughly a month ago. I

I don't have a job working on getting one. My wife started a job last week making $10 an hour, and we live with my parents. Okay. So what you have – I'm sorry you've gone through this. It's hurtful. It's scary. Yeah. What you've got is a career crisis. Yes. Okay.

All of your questions are answered when you have a steady big income. If you got a job tomorrow making $60,000 a year, you wouldn't have called me. Yeah. So what you have is an income problem. Agreed? Yes, absolutely. And there's two parts to the equation to land that. One is you've been home a month. Are you ill physically where you can't work?

Uh, no, not, not at all. Okay. It was just a thing. They were just scared to put you on a dress at basic. Okay. All right. Um, so, uh, I want you to get three jobs delivering stuff by nightfall today. All right. It's called door dash Uber and pizzas, and you can just go sign up and start doing that right now. There's no excuse for you not to be engaged in doing something.

for a whole month in your mother's basement. Go get something going. So I currently, when I left for basic, left our only vehicle with my best friend in Texas because it's where we were living when I went. And he's been working overtime, a bunch of stuff. He's been unable to get it to me. So it's kind of the big hindrance of why I don't. I'm in, I'm in, I'm in.

Okay. You've been in Alabama a month. Mm-hmm. Get your butt to Texas and get your car. He's driving it out tonight, actually. Oh, okay. Good. Good. Okay. He's got that solved. All right. So go ahead and get the three jobs in. I want you doing something immediately. So the immediate need, this does a couple of things for you. One is it starts throwing some cash on this mess. Okay.

Two is the activity is good for your spirit and your soul. Hard work is good for you. It brings dignity. And three is you walk different when you go into the interview for a real job when you're not broke and scared. Your voice tone is different. You have a little bit of swagger. You're not desperate. You don't have the stink of loser on you. Right. But when you're broke, scared,

All of us walk different, talk different, and don't interview well. Right. So it helps your confidence level when you walk in there. So I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, What You're Wired to Do, which includes their long-term plan. Okay. It's got the Get Clear Career Assessment. I'm going to give it to you as my gift.

And I want you to take that assessment, and it's going to give you some guidelines on the types of long-term careers you should be plugging into. And then I'm also going to send you his other second bestseller, or his first bestseller, which is called The Proximity Principle.

which is how to land a job in the career field that this Get Clear Career Assessment lays out. But between now and the time you land that job, I want you working on something, making some kind of money, swinging a hammer on a deck, pushing a lawnmower, delivering something to somebody that needs it being delivered. I want your butt in gear every day.

Understood. That'll stack cash for you, and that will give you dignity, and you will walk different into the other interviewers.

So I do have a job interview coming up this Monday at like a local place and installing emergency lights on vehicles. What's that going to pay? That's the problem. I don't know yet. It wasn't online. And when I went in and talked to the guy, he didn't tell me. And that is a worry of those people.

It's not a worry. It's just one thing you're looking at. You're going to look at 63 things before you land the big thing. And by the way, when you're done with this, I want you to decide what it is you want to do, not just something that drops in your lap. What do you want to be doing when you're 31? Let's get about the business of becoming that. I mean, my goal currently is federal law enforcement because I like the benefits. Okay, then let's start working towards that.

Okay. I'm not sure that's a good reason to go into federal law enforcement. That's a terrible reason to go into federal law enforcement. The benefits...

The benefits are you get shot at. But the, no, I... Go to be a federal police officer if you are, just have a burning desire in your soul to go serve your community. Don't do it for the benefits. That's the worst kind of police officer. There's a lot of other places you can get benefits. It's collecting a check. The police officers that are there to serve and protect their communities, that's what we need more of. But you need to do some soul searching, man. Yeah, you need to think about what it is you want to be from your heart.

And how you're going to do that in a way that provides for your family a level of prosperity in the next decade. And then what are the steps to get there? And in the meantime, go make some dadgum money because you'll feel different. Your confidence will change. I promise you it's a big deal.

John, there's actual data. He's not depressed, but he's in a downtime of his life. I mean, his dream just got taken away by the military. He was going to do that, and that rug got... So he's trying to emotionally recover from that. So it's not like... I suspect it's not full-on depression, but...

The data on depression is physical exercise, sunlight, and activity. You've got to do some stuff. So this sounds harsh, but in his situation, because of the totality of it, he's got a five-month-old. I've got to put food in that baby's mouth. I have a brand-new wife, and she just got a job, but she only found a job making $10 an hour. I'm in my mama's basement again. In your mama's basement. If he was my friend, if he was somebody that came and sat with me, I would say, do you get 48 hours?

to have your heart broken and be sad and walk around your neighborhood. And then you are throwing boxes at the night shift at Walmart for $27 an hour, whatever they're paying 20 bucks an hour. You have to get out there and start doing it. And we're going to figure it out.

Go on your lunch break and go to this other job interview. By the way, this job interview is going to be about ego. It's going to be inside. It's going to be cool. And it's not going to pay what throwing boxes is. It's not going to pay what being an assistant manager at a local McDonald's is. And he's not in a place where ego can drive right now. He's got to make some money to feed a baby. And in the evenings, he can begin planning, applying, sitting at the computer trying to research some of these jobs. That are long-term plans. Long-term plans. Right now, he's got to put food in that baby's mouth and...

Yes, he'll start walking taller. He'll start acting. His life will clarify for him what he does and doesn't want to be doing. Yeah, you get knocked out of the saddle, you can sit and study horses or you can get back on the saddle. Get in the saddle. Study horses while you're riding. But you've got to start riding. You'll learn more about them. This is The Ramsey Show.

Listen, tickets for the Live Like No One Else cruise are selling fast. This is the ultimate debt-free vacation, and I can't wait to celebrate with all the folks who've worked their butts off and changed their family trees. We will be sailing through the blue waters of the Caribbean with the Ramsey personalities.

and other special guests. A bunch of cabin options are already sold out, so hurry and reserve yours with a $600 deposit today at ramseysolutions.com slash events. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Today's question comes from James in Montana. James writes, you've done a wonderful job teaching about how to build wealth and what buckets to use in order to invest.

I know match beats Roth and Roth beats traditional and traditional beats brokers accounts. My question is, what is the best way to do the reverse? Where do you pull from first for spending when you retire? In the reverse, traditional is taxable and has RMD required minimum distributions at 72 and a half. They require you to start pulling some of it at 72 and a half if you haven't pulled it.

And so I'm going to begin to pull off and pay the taxes on that money as I use it. And that's basically for two reasons. One is that account is continuing to grow and every bit of growth is taxable. The Roth account continues to grow and none of it is taxable. Reason number two, the traditional account grows and is taxable to your heirs.

If you get an inherited IRA that is traditional or an inherited 401k that is traditional, you have to pay taxes on it that your dad or mom left you and didn't pay. If you get an inherited Roth, there's no taxes on it.

And so I'm going to clean out that traditional and get that tax mess cleaned up before I start messing with stuff that not only grows tax-free but passes to the next generation tax-free. Can you pull that money and immediately open another brokerage account and start the growth over again? Yeah, yeah.

I guess after you pay the taxes, you could never catch back up to your original number, though. No, because you're down 30% or whatever. I mean, you pull $100,000 out, you lose $30,000. So, you know, welcome to America. But there you go. I mean, that's just how it works. All right. Amy's with us. Amy is in Huntsville. Hi, Amy. How are you? Hello. I'm great. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Me too. Okay. Hey, I've been following you for over 20 years. Okay. I have met my husband since then, had three beautiful children. I have the best blessed life in the world. Okay. Cool. We have 1.5 million in retirement accounts. Way to go, millionaire. Only because of you, Dave. I didn't put any of it in there. You did it.

No, because they got your book in 2003. Really, I've been listening to you forever. Well, thank you. I'm glad you did it. I'm glad you won. It worked. All right, Amy, you already know the answer to the question you're about to ask then, don't you?

No, I don't. Oh, wow. Okay. The question I want to ask is we have $1.5 million in retirement accounts. We have a pension that we are going to be looking forward to in retirement. And we owe $145,000 on the house. We are a little bit pinched for money because of the inflation right now. But we can survive without it. Why are you pinched for money?

Okay, we really got that pinch for money, but I want to have more money per month. Okay. All right. I got you. Okay, I'm with you on that. Now, so how old are y'all? I am 49. My husband is 43. Okay. So we still have quite... What's your household income? He makes $135 a year, so that's like... And you?

I'm a stay-at-home mom. Oh, okay. So your household income is $135,000. You owe $145,000 and you're in your 40s. Yes. Okay. All right. Cool. I want to know if we can pay off the house and take the hit on the taxes. I wouldn't. No, I wouldn't. You're not only going to get the taxes, you're going to get a 10% penalty. So what's going to happen at $135,000? You're going to lose 40%. That's like borrowing money at 40% interest.

Yes. No. But I've made, I am actually an active trader in our brokerage account, and I've made like $700,000 in the last five years. Inside the retirement? Yes. Yeah, but you don't have anything that's not inside retirement? No, besides the house, no. Yeah, so you're running a self-managed IRA. Yeah, but I mean a self-managed, you're doing a self-managed IRA, okay.

All right. But just because you can... That's all the more reason not to give the government 50 cents on the dollar. Okay. Because if you can make that kind of money, you can make that kind of money instead of giving it to the government. Now, what I would do is this. What I would do is this. I would stop investing into your 401k. Well, we do put 10%. I would stop investing into your 401k. Well, we do that because there is a match. I would stop investing...

into your 401k and pay off your stinking house. If you want to get the match, that's fine. If you want to invest, that's fine. But you have no money...

except in this retirement account so you're seriously considering as smart as you are on everything else taking a 40 hit on your money no i want your house paid off too but i'm not giving the government 40 cents on the dollar you pull 100 grand out you send them 40 you got 60 left that stinks to high oven no no no no no no no no no no hundred times no wouldn't do that

Now, I was hoping you were going to tell me you're 59 and a half, and I would cash it out without the 10% penalty. I would. But you're not there. So anyway, pay the mortgage down with other means between now and then. And if you want to slow or stop the 401k to apply the difference to your mortgage, that would not be unwise at this stage of the game. Because your million and a half, if you just let it grow at a 10% rate,

is going to be worth $3 million by the time you're 60. And by the time you're 67, it's going to be worth $6 million. And by the time you're 74, it's going to be worth $12 million. So you're going to be okay. You're going to be all right. And that's if you add nothing to it. Let me ask you this, Dave. So if my friend came to me and said, hey, I've been self-managing this mutual fund over the last five years, and I've made $700,000.

If I look at all the data about self-managed funds, they don't ever work long-term. Right. I would tell my friend, take your money off the table. You had a night and you beat Vegas and dump it in. Is that bad advice in this situation? Because I feel like that's a person that's going to take that $700 and is going to end up losing it statistically over a long enough arc.

Well, I did not delve into what she's doing. Okay. So if she's buying and selling single stocks, yes, I would take it off the table. I agree. I mean, how else would you make 700,000 bucks in five years? I don't know what she started with. That's fair. Okay. So, um, you know, if you doubled it in five years, that's only about a 15, 16% rate of return. Okay.

So that could be done with mutual funds if you're very careful. Sure. Right. So maybe she selected the best package of mutual funds possible in the last five years. That could be, but if you're buying and selling single stocks, I agree. I wouldn't do that. I don't do it. And I know a lot about it. I don't do it. My retirement accounts are not self-managed. They're just sitting in mutual funds, cooking, just cooking right along. Yeah. That's a good point. I hadn't thought about that in her case. So you've done really, really well. Be careful.

Be careful and don't, you know, let's not be giving the government half our money and let's not be taking big risk with a self-managed account. That would be the two tune-ups or answers to what we think we're hearing in your situation. And good question, Amy. We appreciate you joining us. The good news is, is what she said is right. If you do follow this stuff, you'll be a Baby Steps millionaire. It works every time. Every time. And...

Her family situation has changed during that decade. Her employment situation has changed during that decade. Everything has moved, and still we're sitting on a maid and a half in her 40s, plus a house that's almost paid for. We didn't ask what the house is worth, so their net worth is $1,000.

presumably over $2 million. My guess is, you know, whenever you're traveling and you have to go to the bathroom and you finally find an exit that has a gas station and you exit, for some reason, right when you exit and you get to that stoplight and you see the gas station,

Your body's just like, all right, we're going to go right now. You've got to go real bad. And I feel like she's got a million and a half bucks, and she's right there at the edge to pay that house off. And then all of a sudden, it's like, I've got to pay this off right now, right now, right now. I had no idea where that metaphor was going. Hey, let's slow down. I had no idea where that metaphor was going. That metaphor landed like a sweet airplane. That's a Rachel Cruz metaphor right there. Oh, my gosh.

Unbelievable. You've got to stay the course, even though you're right there at the edge. Just stay the course. Okay. Don't pee in the car. That's it. That's the moral of the story. Don't pee in the car. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, Ph.D. in counseling. He's my co-host today. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Happy Fourth of July weekend. Happy birthday, America. You big, beautiful beast. Pretty amazing. Brandon's with us in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Brandon. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi, John. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. How's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up? The reason for my call is my mom is kind of giving up on her career field and is depending on me to fund essentially everything for her. Now, a little bit of background. I don't have any brothers and sisters. My parents divorced early on. How old is your mother?

She's 52. And so you're supposed to support this 52-year-old woman for the rest of her life who doesn't want to work much.

Well, the thing that's happened is essentially she worked at a university. She went to school, got her PhD, and was really trying to break into the medical field with her doctorate, and she just wasn't able to get a job. And so now, you know, it's gone on about a year and a half now where she essentially hasn't had a job and has been using all of her, I guess,

I guess money that she has saved. Pretty irresponsible for somebody smart enough to get a Ph.D. What's her degree in?

Uh, something medical research. He was working. She actually was doing, uh, some sort of, um, job at the CDC during COVID that was, you know, an assignment for, I think six months or something like that. Uh, but before that she was working with infectious disease in, uh, wait, here's the deal. Does she have her name on your checking account? No. Okay. She can only get money if you give it to her.

That is correct. And so she can't take it from you. She can't steal it from you. She can just ask you for it. Let's stop a second. Okay. Let's pretend that this wasn't your mom for a second. And you just, you're talking to your best friend's mom. Who's 52. Is it good for her to do nothing and drain her kid? Let's talk about her. Is it good for her?

Yeah. It's not a rhetorical question I'm asking you. Is it good for her? Of course not. Okay. Then if you assist her in doing something that's not good for her, you are not doing good, sir. Follow me? Yeah. You're giving a drunk a drink. I'm with you. You're giving a drunk a drink. So what's happened is her heart got broken and her confidence got shaken. After she went and got her PhD, she thought she had a meal ticket, and it turns out you still got to go out there and shovel the ditch.

And she shook up and her heart's messed up. And instead of actually reengaging life, she's trying to escape life.

And in the process, suck the marrow out of your bones. The only way forward, good man, is to sit down and have an across-the-table conversation with your mom. Yeah. It's good for her to reengage life. I love you. And you got knocked down hard, and I'm so sorry. And I'll walk with you. I'll be your biggest cheerleader. I'll pick you up. I'll dust you off. But I'm not going to support you while you do nothing because it's not good for you. You're way too smart to waste your life away sitting and watching Oprah reruns. Right? Right.

Yeah, yeah, that's right. And I promise you there's a job at a university for her. And if she tries to be a travel agent for guilt trips, don't let her. Mom, I am not an ungrateful son. That's why I'm sitting here. But I'm so grateful and I love you so much that I will not participate in your destruction. I will not participate in you turning a wonderful life into a pile of poop. I'm not going to participate in that.

I love you too much to do that. I'm going to walk with you. I'm going to hold you accountable. I'm going to dust you off. I'm going to cheer you on. I'll call you back. I'll coach you. I'll buy you books. I'll be your biggest cheerleader, but I'm not going to give a drunk a drink because something knocked her out of the saddle and now she's scared of horses. She's afraid, I think, isn't she?

Yeah, I don't know if he really wants to anymore, to be honest. Well, that hopelessness comes from not believing anymore. That's a type of fear. Proverbs says, hope deferred makes the heart sick. But when desire comes, it is the tree of life.

And so if I called her up tomorrow out of the blue and said, the CDC is on the other line. They want to pay you 140,000 a year. Can you be there Monday? Suddenly she wouldn't have given up. Suddenly she would light up like a dadgum Christmas tree. So she's not done. She's heartbroken, hopeless. And so part of your job is not to give her money, but to inject hope into her life and help her get back on the horse.

And don't you dare give her any more money. Don't you dare give her any more money. If you want to buy some food and drop off a bag of food, do that. But don't you give her cash to sit on her butt. Don't participate in her own destruction. That's the worst kind of enabling. You're not being nice. You're being mean when you do that. Is that making sense? Because it's not good for her. And the byproduct of you doing this right is it actually does protect you. But that's really even down the list.

I would let you suffer if I thought it was the right thing to do to pour money over there. Yeah. It's not good for her. How does this conversation go, Brandon? How does it sound when you talk to her next time? It really will.

No, I don't have any problem really having the conversation with her. I just was really wondering how to navigate it, you know, because it is touchy for her. In person? In person. Holding one of her hands, you pick up the tab for the breakfast.

You're looking into her eyes and just tell her how much you love her 22 times during the thing. And I love you so much that I'm going to help you get back on the horse. Because, Mama, I can tell your heart's broken. I can tell you've lost hope. And you're too smart. You've got a freaking PhD. You're too smart to waste your life away. And I'm not going to stand by as someone who loves you and allow you to do that. I'm going to be cheering you on. I'm going to be kicking your butt. Huh? Yeah, go for it. What's up?

Could I ask you one quick thing? So currently she's moved out of her house into what my, I have a rental property. It's the only debt that I have left. And, you know, now it went from, you know, me being able to put an extra $1,500 it made towards that mortgage to me now paying probably another $700 or $800 out of my. Yeah, put a time limit on how long she stays there. Six months. Six months. You got six months in the house, Mom, and then I got to sell it.

You need to put a deadline on it. Yeah. Because otherwise this goes on for 15 years. That was a bad move, by the way. Hey, hang on. I'm going to send you Ken Coleman's books for her from Paycheck to Purpose and Proximity Principle. Maybe they'll help her get started. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, good folks. Dr. John Deloney here. Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So guess what?

Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions.com slash careers. That's ramseysolutions.com slash careers.

Buying a house or selling a house right now, the Ramsey way makes homeownership a blessing if you do it right. And if you do it wrong, it'd be a curse. Yeah, stay away from it. It's a wild real estate market out there. And the Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find a good real estate agent that you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at Ramsey and help you get the best offer on your house, find the right house for you.

We only send you to the top producing agents in the area who we trust. We review their stats. We interview them. We decide which one. And then you do the same thing, and you can pick the one you want. Ramsey Trusted Agents have years of experience. They didn't get their license last week. Your Aunt Sally might be sweet, but she doesn't need to sell your house.

You need a pro. Find a Ramsey-trusted real estate agent for free at ramseysolutions.com slash agent. Ryan is in Fort Worth, Texas. Hey, Ryan, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, thanks for having me on. Sure, what's up?

So I'll just try and paint a picture for you guys. I'm a, I'm 21 and I have been with my girlfriend for a little under four years and I'm considering getting married, but, and, and she's, she's amazing. She's really hardworking. Um, the only thing is when we've had conversations previously about marriage, I've told her that I've always thought that getting premarital counseling, uh,

is kind of necessary. Well, I guess it's not necessary for everyone, but it's a very good idea. And, um, she reacted pretty negatively to that. And, and we kind of argued a little bit about it. And she said that she, uh, she wouldn't want to have another person, uh,

talk about our issues with, I guess, like a stranger. And I was just wondering what you guys thought about that. Her alternative that she offered was we'd read some kind of book on marriage together and kind of work it out ourselves. It's an ironical irony that you're having a fight

about pre-marriage counseling yeah yeah so brother ryan brother ryan yeah just slowly back away when you get to the door turn and run as fast as you can yeah here's why here's why um no couple has it figured out when they're first getting married

You at this point are unable to say, I want to do this because it's important to me. And if you already can't say what you need or what you want out loud, it's going to be tough sledding. This has nothing to do with her. You want to put this on like it's just a good idea. All couples should do this. You need to be able to look your future wife in the eye and say, this is really important to me. The second thing is if she is a person who cannot hear outside counsel or wisdom, which all of us need.

then she's going to have a very tough time being your wife or your partner and your co-creator of this world y'all are going to build together. And I don't see a healthy path forward. The Bible says in the multitude of counsel, there is safety. There's a ton of statistical evidence. Have you ever heard the saying, Ryan, that half the marriages end in divorce? Have you ever heard that saying? Yeah, I have. It's statistically untrue, by the way.

And let me throw some numbers at you that are pretty crazy, okay? If you get married before having a child, if you don't live together before getting married, if you both graduate from high school, if your combined household income is going to be in excess of $50,000, those are all controllable variables, by the way. The controlling variables you don't have is if both of your parents are married still,

If all of those things are true, and if you share a faith together, you're both of one faith, if you regularly attend a house of worship for that faith, if you do all the things I have just listed, you have a 90% probability of staying married. And

Part of that is, by the way, if, oh, I left out too, I'm sorry. If you get pre-marriage counseling and if you have an engagement period that lasts six months or longer, not three days, and I got married in Vegas, okay? So some people that get married three days after they meet, their marriage lasts for 50 years, but most don't. So basically a good, decent length of an engagement. You're not sleeping together, living together, having babies together before marriage, right?

And you have good pre-marriage counseling. And you do some of these other basic things. Most marriages that follow that statistically make it. It's in the 90 percentile. But it's all the people that get all this crap out of order. And like John said, that refuse to have any input into their marriage. You're freaking 21 years old. I'm not putting you down. But you don't know beans about nothing. Of course you need outside help.

Of course you do. You called us because you wanted help. Well, Ryan does that. Because you're wise in the multitude of accounts for their safety. I'm 63, and I need help. A lot. Shut up, John.

All right, so Ryan, like... John needs a new job. I'm going to get paycheck to purpose on the way out the door. All right, so Ryan, there's got to be something beneath this. That's weird. Yeah. That she gets at angry about it. So... Like her parents went to pre-marriage counseling and got divorced, or they went to marriage counseling and got divorced anyway? So it was her sister. Ah, okay. And she's really close with her sister. Yeah. And...

It wasn't the counseling that blew the marriage up. It was the sister. What were you saying, Ryan? I was saying I may have come on a little strong. Usually we talk in the car as I'm driving, and sometimes I'll say something like, we have to do this, and maybe that put her on the defensive. I don't know. But also, yeah, the main thing is her sister. So here's the response in a gentle way.

I'm asking you to put my needs above your sister's. And if she can't do this now, then your marriage is not going to make it. And right now what she's choosing to do is to take her sister's experience and put that over what you're asking. But you also have to have the courage to say, I pawn this off on this is just what we're supposed to do or this is the right thing to do. I want to do this because it's important to me. Yeah.

And if she looks you in the eye and says, I can't meet your needs or I have no interest in quote unquote doing what you say that you want, then you'll need to address your relationship there. That's a tough place. Okay. Is that fair? Yeah, I think that's. This is my, I've been on, I've been doing radio all day today, including my show, this show, and this is my least favorite phone call I've had to make because I know that's hard. Yeah. I know that's hard.

I think I'm going to try and implement that, though, and see if she does have any. Yeah, I mean, this matters to me. Me too. That's a big deal. If you say that to your spouse and our potential spouse and they go, yeah, well, I don't care. We're not doing it anyway. Unless it's something that's harmful. I mean, what's the downside? But, I mean, this is...

And here's the thing that as an almost newlywed that you don't see, this will happen with the home you buy. This will happen with the neighborhood you live in. This will happen with the job you take. Man, you throw kids in the mix. Hey, it's a really big deal to me that our kids go to this church. Yeah, it's not happening. Like these things just get bigger and bigger and bigger. There's an old counseling saying conflict deferred is conflict amplified. If you don't say, hey, this is important to me that we get some counsel, that we get people to walk with us in this stage of our marriage,

And she says, nah, this will just, this will turn into a nuclear bomb down the road. And I hate that for you, man, because I know that you love this woman. I had very few requests of my grown children when they, when their spouse came and asked for our blessing to get married. One of them was pre-marriage counseling. All three of them did that. They're my kids. They need counseling. This is the Ramsey Show.

I know you work hard for your money, and the key to keeping more of it in your pocket is by making a plan for your spending with a budget. And EveryDollar is the budgeting app that I use personally because it's perfect for looking every dollar you make in its little president face and telling it exactly where you want it to go, just like you told that guy in traffic exactly where you wanted him to go. And even better, EveryDollar walks you through the entire budgeting journey so you always know your next right step.

Download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today. Thanks for joining us, America. Dr. John Deloney Ramsey. Personality is my co-host in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the Dead Free Stage. Chad and Natalia are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Terrific, Dave. We're doing great. Good to have you guys. Where do you live?

We live in Pennsylvania, close to Erie. Erie. Okay, very good. And how much debt have y'all paid off? We paid off $151,405. Wow, love it. Very good. And how long did it take to pay off $151,000? 34 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that three years? From $142,000 up to about $177,000. Cool. What do y'all do for a living?

We're both teachers. Oh, awesome. What do you teach? I teach fifth grade. I teach middle school math. Awesome. Very good. Very good. What kind of debt was the 151? Well, about 15,000 was our car loan and a little bit of my school debt, and the rest was our mortgage. You paid off your house? Yes, we did. Looking at some weird people right here. Love it. Very cool. Good looking house. I'm seeing it on YouTube here. How much is that worth?

About 270. About 270. Excellent. Excellent. How old are you two? We're 50. And a paid for house, baby. Yeah. Worth almost 300 grand. How much is in your retirement accounts?

So we have only about $45,000 in our Roths, and then we have a whole bunch of money and contributions and interest that will come to us in a lump sum from our pensions eventually, and that's what we have so far. All right. Way to go, guys. Good job. Not to mention, when you die after spending life as a middle school math teacher, there's a conveyor belt to heaven. You just get to pass everything. You just get straight in, man.

kindergarten teachers you got to stay in line but you just get to go right ahead wow spoken like somebody who taught math in middle school nope spoken like a kid who just got a middle schooler out of math oh wow way to go guys congratulations thank you okay so 34 months so 36 months ago or so something happened how long have y'all been married

29. Okay, so 29 years you've been bumping along, but something happened and you said, okay, something's got to change here. We're going to get this house knocked out and these other things too. What happened? So I have a friend who...

is quite a bit younger than me. And so conceding to him much of anything is not something that I like doing. And so he had gotten way on board with the Ramsey business and was drinking the Kool-Aid and way down the road.

And I was hemming and hawing and hedging. And he would just make these little comments. Shout out to Carl Giesing. And he would say things like, well, that's okay. You don't have to do it. But someday I'll be a millionaire and you won't.

just these little just these little digs and so eventually i decided um pretty much the classic thing of like we make too much money to be to still be paycheck to paycheck like you know i mean our incomes continue to grow and and you know what why don't we have something so natalia chad comes in and says i'm tired of carl dogging me we're going to look at this what'd you say

I was pretty much on board. The only concern that I had, because we were very poor when we got married. Chad was a missionary in Russia and that's how we met. I'm actually from Russia anyway. So when we first got married, we had $14 as our budget for food a month.

So when he proposed that first of all was a miracle because Chad was never really about money He would just give everything away and we were happy and you know, we love Jesus and just God will provide and

But then it was a miracle that he brought it to me. And I hope I was on board right away. But my concern was like... You didn't want $40 food budget. Yeah. That was my only concern. So I'm guessing it wasn't. No, it was not. We're the classic...

that comes up a lot on the show where somebody is the idea guy and they're all about this. So I'm Mr. Bottle Rocket and she's just been yanked all over the place. So I think her reservation to get on board was, oh, this is my next thing. And pretty much we really...

the thing where we sat down and we had a dream meeting and we talked about what could be and we tried to dream in Technicolor and once we did that instead of what we can't do and the fact that now we're going to be budget people like this is our compelling reasons why and once we did that then it started to then it came together and it made sense and we and we were off to the races love it love it love it congratulations you two wow so

So what's the first big thing you're going to do now that you don't have a payment in the stinking world? Well, the first thing that we are doing is here. What's the first big thing? Well, we're staying at the Drury downtown in Nashville, and this is a lot of money for us to spend. I'm driving a $1,750 car that's called the Golden Marshmallow. The Golden Marshmallow has got to go. It's a 1996. That's number one. It's got to go. Yeah, Sable. Anyway, Mercury Sable.

There's a picture of it. I love it. What year? 97? 96. It's a 96 Mercury Sable. And you always talk about buying a $2,000 car. You just told somebody about buying a $2,000 car. It was a $1,750 car.

And it overheats. So when it overheats, it stops working. So he has to like take it apart. That's how you make s'mores. An overheated marshmallow. You could cook s'mores on the engine. So we'll get a replacement car. We'll get her a replacement kitchen at some point in the not too distant future. We're going to go on a family vacation where we take other folks along with us. Good for you. Well done. All right. That's a good plan. I like it.

How does it feel to not have any payments in the world? It doesn't feel real, to be honest. But it feels so good, but not quite real. How old were you when you came from Russia? I was 21. Okay. That's when we got married. Okay. Yeah. And how surreal is this American dream now, like decades later, right? Yeah. Here you sit in a house that you completely own 100% of.

That's got to feel a little different than... It's amazing, to be honest. But since we were very young, we worked really hard. So it feels amazing because it was not a gift. It was not...

you know, something that somebody gave it to me. We are not lucky. We worked so hard. And that was one of the hardest things for me to watch my husband work day and night, not just physically, but also mentally for an hour in the morning. And then for an hour or two or three at night, just looking at his notes and crunching the numbers and making plans. And that was the hardest thing for me. Yeah. Beautiful.

And what about these two handsome boys over here? How old are these guys? Enoch is 25. Raise your hand. 25. And Caleb is about to be 22. Yeah. And so when we started this, the summer of 21, like we just like kind of on the

on ramped toward it realized that if we're going to go all the way in we need to do FPU and so we brought them on board and we did FPU like one lesson a day for nine straight days and that was like the launch board and so these guys have really been along for the journey here's what I love about that that's a dad that says not only no more with me

But that's a dad that looks at his two sons and says, no more with y'all either. Yeah. And that's amazing right there. I'm proud of you for that. One of them just bought his own first car, all cash for a beautiful Subaru. It's a better car than yours. Oh, it is way better. Yes.

It's a low bar. Way better. Anyway, and the other one paid for college debt-free, and they're both living totally debt-free. They're roommates across town. It's great. Jump up there with your mom and dad while they show that they changed your whole family tree, young man. $151,000 paid off in 34 months, making $142,000 to $177,000 100% debt-free. House and everything!

Chad and Natalia, Erie, Pennsylvania. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. Whee! Yeah! That's how that works. Woo! You gotta love it, baby. This is the Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day is Psalm 2713. I remain confident of this. I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living.

General Douglas MacArthur said, duty, honor, country. Those three hallowed words reverently dictate what you ought to be, what you can be, and what you will be. Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. Happy Fourth of July weekend, everybody. Reese is with us in Gainesville, Florida. Hi, Reese. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Good afternoon. Hey, what's up?

So my question is that I'm 25 and I'm on disability insurance and disability payments, and I was wondering how I could build wealth. What's the nature of your disability, sir?

So when I was five months old, I had a heart transplant. Fast forward to 2018, I got lymphoma cancer. Then in 2022, it relapsed again. I'm in remission for both, so I'm good there. And currently, I am a University of Florida student. I'm in the senior year. I plan on getting my master's, and I'm debt-free. Very good. What's your master's going to be in?

Same thing, food and resource economics or applied economics. Okay, fine. All right. I don't know enough. I'm not good enough at medicine to know what all that stuff means for your future and what your situation is.

What I always, when I'm working with someone that's facing a disability, the always reason I ask the nature of it is there's a technical disability. There's meaning that you are declared disabled in order to receive payments from the military or from a disability policy or from SSI or whatever. And then there is, um, I don't know how to say this properly. I'll just try to say it, uh, just try to say it. And if it's, if it sounds wrong, don't be offended, please. Then there's the actual disability.

meaning what can you actually not do? And so if I woke up in those shoes, you've got a balance between the

technical disability, you can't continue receiving most disability checks while you go earn $300,000. They generally cut those checks off, right? Depending on the situation. Now, sometimes with military, it keeps going either way. I don't know. But if you're unable to do certain things like physical things, but you're able to use your mind, which in talking to you, it sounds like you have a wonderful mind, a great intellect, and you could use your mind and go have a wonderful career in spite of these limitations, then

obviously that's going to be your best route. Agreed? Yes, sir. That's actually, um, that was my plan was to go into government and do researching so that I wouldn't physically have to do anything, but I can use my brain to thoroughly thrive. But I'm kind of a little bit weary right now because due to the fact that I have these, uh,

I'm way more likely to get cancer again. I'm way more likely to pass away sooner than the average person. And half of me is thinking, like, is it even worth it to save up wealth and build into a retirement that I might not never receive? Yeah. Yeah, it is. But it's not worth it to have no life in the meantime. And so you've managed to stay debt-free.

Right? Yes, sir. And so, you know, you've got three things you can do with money. You can invest it, you can give it, and you can enjoy it. And I always tell everyone you should do all three, and you should do all three. If you want to slow down on investing and have a moderate investing plan and a higher enjoyment plan based on your supposition, that's okay if you want to go that route. I don't care.

The downside is you might live to be 70 and be screwed, right? Right, right. Yeah, that's a good point. Reese, you've been given a strange gift, and it's a gift I wouldn't wish on anybody, but it's that you got to peer over the edge, right? You had to sit in a doctor's office and hear them say the word cancer, and you were raised with one or two parents who had a youngster with a heart transplant. Like, you know.

And you know that millions of men and women go to college every year because they want to get rich or they want a paycheck. Or we talked to somebody earlier in the show today that just wanted to get a job because of the benefits.

And you have had the gift to peer over the edge and realize, I am not doing anything that isn't going to bring me joy and excitement and that I'm going to be able to pour myself into because I know this whole song and dance comes to an abrupt end. It's just a vapor, right? Yeah. And so if you love studying economics, what a cool moment in history when they've thrown all economics programs online and you could be a professor that's got incredible compassion for students.

Or you can be an economic researcher, and please, God, help Congress. Right? Like, you can be an incredible contributor if this is something you love to study. If you hate studying economics, I'm going to plead with you. Your life is too short, and you know it, and I know it. Go find something to use that amazing mind that's going to contribute to your life and to everyone else's life around you. Yeah. So I think your baby steps are exactly the same, though.

And I think investing is always going to be a part of your plan. See, $100 a month invested from 25 to 65 in good mutual funds and a Roth IRA is over a million dollars. Okay. So it doesn't take a lot. So you land a job out there with a master's in econ making six figures. You know, you save $500,000 a month. You're going to be a multimillionaire if you make it to 70. Okay.

And none of us know when we're going to make it, right? But like John said, you've peered over the edge. So, yeah, I don't think it changes a lot. It just changes the maturity level with which you're going to be unusually emotionally mature at 25, more serious. Yeah, and for somebody who thinks, well, I'm not going to get to spend this retirement, what if you thought about –

What your mom's face looked like when they told her your baby's going to have to have a heart transplant and you created an endowment for moms and dads who are facing that kind of surgery or you begin to pay into something that's going to live on long after you're gone and honor and bless families.

Like you get to think bigger and beyond just what kind of car am I going to drive? You might have $10 million in an account that sets something up that runs in perpetuation. Just that keeps going. The endowment idea. And how fun if I know, okay, I only got this much runway. I'm going to make this runway count. And Dave, there's an increasing call in some of the psychology literature about we just burn our most precious resource time. And if we all knew how precious it was,

man, we'd get off these stupid phones and be about earning and loving and serving. Anthony in California, how can we help? Hey, guys, how's it going? Better than we deserve. What's up?

So I have a question. I recently got a new promotion and with that promotion came a raise. It's about, I want to say seven or $8. But by September I'll be at a complete $9 raise from where I was at. So it's awesome for me, but I'm not baby step two right now. Just finished paid off most of my credit card debt. I have about a thousand left on one card. And then unfortunately I have a $50,000 Sally May loan from school.

So that's kind of biting at me. And I kind of feel like I know what you guys are going to tell me. However, the thing is, now that I'm at this new job, I have to commute about an hour from where I live. The gas isn't a problem. My car is paid off, and I only have to pay the insurance. But it's really old, well into over 200,000 miles. And it's got this maintenance I have to always do. I'm just kind of worried that it might break down on me later. And then if I don't have anything saved up for the car, then...

drive the beater and get out of debt you don't buy a car you don't buy a car with the race go be free you already knew that you knew we were going to say that you know why we say that because we love you and we want you to win i want you to be able to drive anything you want to drive the rest of your life if you go buy a car right now you're going to short circuit that it's going to delay your financial freedom significantly it's so easy and

Bakersfield, California to get car fever. At every stoplight there's cool cars and you're not driving one of them because you're broke and $50,000 in debt. But someday you'll remember sitting at that stoplight when you're driving a nice car and you didn't use your raise to go buy a stupid car that goes down in value. I love cars, but financially they're just straight up stupid.

There's just no way around it. Please don't do it, Anthony. Please don't do it. And you knew we were going to say that. You just wanted us to say it so you could hear it. And we did. That's what we're here for, stating the obvious over and over. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Hey, folks, Dave Ramsey here. You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring. You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind, and that's EveryDollar. The EveryDollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money. Start budgeting with EveryDollar for free right now. Just go to RamseySolutions.com slash EveryDollar and download the app today. That's RamseySolutions.com slash EveryDollar.