If You Race To Build Wealth You’ll Fall Flat on Your Face
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From Ramsey Network, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey Personality, George Campbell, joined by my good friend, some would say best friend, Dr. John Deloney, best-selling author and host.

of the very popular Dr. John Deloney show, and we are here for you to help you take the right next step for your life, your relationships, your mental health, your money. So give us a call at 888-825-5225, and we will try to do just that. Joe is going to kick us off in Tampa, Florida this hour. What's going on, Joe? Hey, what's up, guys? How y'all doing? Doing well. How are you?

Not too bad. So I got some frustrating stuff going on, unfortunately. So in the spring of 2020, met the love of my life. She was finishing up college in a master's program. She had about a year left. And what happened was some life stuff happened. COVID happened. We kind of fell in love. I knew I was going to be a single income family once we got married. So I was like, it's time to withdraw.

So she withdrew from the university online master's program. And at the end of 2020, she found out that she was charged, charged for the classes. And she's like, I booked my advisor, sent the information in, and they confirmed, yeah, this advisor left, so we're still charging you, basically, is what happened. We sent them all the paperwork. Here we went through, never heard from the university, never heard from the professors,

So it kind of went cold for like a couple years. So the end of 2022, what happened was we got something from Collections. It kind of went quiet. And they said, you still owe us seven grand. We're like, what?

We never took classes. There was never a product, never a university professor reached out to us. Nobody told us the thing, right? So we got all the emails, all the communication with the advisors. And for some reason, this large university is still like coming at us for this money. We're like, we never took classes. We withdrew. We got all this information. So then now, two years later, we get a second collections. Okay. Okay.

So my wife, we're debt free, life's great. And we have this $8,000 check for something that we never, she never did, never was a part of. And it doesn't really make sense. And not only that, it's really frustrating because she was a straight A student in her undergrad. They've held her transcripts. She can't even look at her class records anymore. She can never get a job with the degree, almost improve it. And they've like froze all of her accounts. Okay. Yeah.

So really what I'm asking you guys is, I don't know in a legal way what to do in a circumstance like this. I'm in Florida. The university's in Pennsylvania. And obviously this is pretty stressful on my wife, who's worked really hard with me to get that free. So I don't know if you guys have any advice on where to go and how to kind of get this to just end. Well, good thing you called two attorneys at law here at the Ramsey Show.

So, hey, Joe, here's the first place I would start. And I spent 20 years almost in university systems. OK, I know they can be they can be a maze. And I can't count. I would say in the hundreds, the number of students who registered for classes at some point withdrew, but withdrew past the withdrawal date.

Meaning the gift the university gave you was not to give you all Fs, but you bought a seat or your wife bought a seat on the bus that they couldn't sell to somebody else. Now, this doesn't always scale in online classes, but just go with me here. There's a deadline to withdraw.

We let you withdraw, but once you bought a seat past the withdrawal date, and usually in the university system, it's a graduated. So like one weekend, you get charged this much for the class. Two weeks, three, and then you have to pay for the whole class. And I would start there. And you can't say, I didn't get a product. You bought a seat just because you didn't get on the plane. That's fine. But they couldn't sell that plane seat to somebody else. So they're holding you responsible for the cost. I would check the withdrawal dates first.

If you have the withdrawal paperwork and you have the catalog and the calendar from when this, from when the, because those things change every year, then all I would do is send it to the registrar. I've never met a registrar who likes to steal money from ex-students. I've never met that person. Okay. It almost always is a, hey, here's a deadline. And by the way, in a graduate class, professors treat you like grown adults.

They don't always chase you down. They don't baby you. Like, you want to drop out of the class, drop out of the class. I got other stuff I got to do. But I would go look at those dates before you get indignant. And if you find out they are ripping you off, then call the registrar's office and say, I just received a note from collections. I need to know who to talk to about it.

Gotcha. All right. Sounds good. That's good advice. That's where I'll start then. My thing is, every experience I've had in collegiate is there's at least one bit of communication, just like one, like, welcome to class. Here's your online class. All of her undergrad was online, and she had taken online masters. So when she got that bill, she was like, I never received any communication from the university at all.

That I was even actively, even on the bus. You know what I mean? That I was even, there was even a seat for my name on the bus. You know, so that's like right there. I'm like, how can you be still kicking it down? I get it, but dude, in a very strange way, this isn't Deloney story time hour, but I registered for a class and I totally forgot. I registered for a class at the beginning of a spring semester for the summer, I think it was summer two session. I completely forgot about it.

In the fall, I went to register. I had an F on my transcript, graduate school. I went and met with a professor, and she's like, I'm not taking the F off. You didn't show up for my class. And the class, I couldn't have another student in here. So in order to make up the F, I had to go retake. That was on me, man. I forgot about it. I did it seven months before, but that was 100% on me. I just had to say, hey, I'm at your mercy. Will you help me out here? But here's the other thing. A lot of schools have switched to portals.

Kind of like doctor's offices have. They don't email you 500 times. They don't baby you. They say your responsibility is to check your portal every day. Here's the meta here. Take full ownership of this and get yourself out of a victim position until you have proof beyond a reasonable doubt that you are indeed a victim here. Assume that a giant institution isn't out trying to destroy you.

that they have just computer processes and I guarantee you this was a computer wipe off sent you to collections there's not one person in the room going ha ha it's just you know what I mean so get rid of the villain and the bad guy and the victim let's check the dates and if y'all didn't register I mean if y'all registered for a class and you didn't pay for it just own it and pay your 8,000 bucks and move on or call and beg for mercy say we totally blew it totally blew it during 2020 life fell apart can we come to a settlement here

Right? I mean, that's what I would do. But take ownership of this thing until you find out. Man, if you're getting hosed and they're just like, yeah, doomed, we're trying to get some extra money. Well, then, yeah, then hire an attorney and go down that road because they've falsely sent you to collections. But, man, I've just been in a lot of these conversations, George, where...

Injustice, injustice, injustice. It's like, hey, you're Richard for class. You just never showed up. Oh, my bad. Oh, yeah. I'd be filing an appeal with the registrar's office. You can try to send a dispute letter to the collections and just go, hey, this was a big misunderstanding. But before you do that... What's it going to take to clean it up? Before you do that...

Go take full responsibility. Is there a chance that I'm at fault here? I reached for class and I didn't show up for it. And if it is, then call and beg for mercy. That's different than you screwed me. That's right. Sorry this happened to you, Joe. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Well, John, we just announced the brand new 2025 Ramsey Gold Planner. It's officially on presale. And I love this because you talk about how we've gone digital with everything, and sometimes we need to go tactile and analog. Well, and yeah, like my wife used the same...

of like old school writes in it every morning planner. And I'm an old, you know that too. We talk about this off air all the time. Well, if it's digital, John has lost track. I am out. I still like holding it and writing in the calendar and this Ramsey goal planners, it's, it's a perennial seller. It always sells out. But this year is a little bit different. We understand that everything's tight. Like everything's just tight in people's homes financially. And so,

We're doing something different. We're rolling it out early. We're pre-selling it this year. And by pre-selling it, we can offer it at a much lower price. And so this is the best price that's ever going to exist, $35.97. If you buy this planner for your wife, your husband, if you buy this planner, if you use this planner and you buy it every year,

I can't tell you enough. Buy it right now. It's the best price that's going to be on it and it's going to help you with your money, your faith, your relationships. I've got some writing in it. Jade's got some writing in it. Rachel Cruz has some writing in it. And of course, there's the calendar, which is probably, you know, arguably the most important part of the planner that is the calendar part. But,

It sells out every year. Get it now. Pre-order it. And it just is another thing you can mark off your Christmas list. And it's just, it's 36 bucks. So go to RamseySolutions.com slash store. Or you can click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or on the podcast. Easy. But it's an easy way to grab it. Go get it. Last day to pre-order, September 2nd. Plus it looks rad. It's got these little gold, I don't know. They didn't ask me. It's gold.

I would love to see you try to explain the design work on this. Yeah. It's got these rings that are cool. It holds it together. It's beautiful. It's got numbers in it, calendar, goals. It also has books I'm reading, which is a thing you don't do, George. That's cool. That's not true. Maybe you should get this. I'm actually going through an audio book right now. I'm really enjoying it. It's a memoir. That's what I'm into right now. It's my thing. Alright.

All right, let's get to the phone lines. Mike is in Houston. You don't even know what that word means. What's up, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike? What's up? Mike in Houston. What's going on? How are y'all doing today? Big fan. We're doing well. Keep us on the track, man. How can we help you?

Well, just to make it quick, I'm basically 33. I'm moving into Houston to get a better job and make more money. However, going through my debt, I'm trying to attract the credit cards that I have. So thinking about my vehicle, I owe $16,000 on it, and it's worth about $11,000. So would it be better to just give it back to the bank and just tell them I can't afford it, or should I just...

Use the $10,000 that I have right now that I'll be using to secure my moving and pay the difference and just sell it. I would definitely not do a voluntary repo. Like you first mentioned, I would much rather see you come up with a difference, even if you had to go down to your local credit union and get a $5,000 loan for the difference. But good news, you have it in cash.

And so I would use that difference. If you owe 16, it's worth 11, you have $5,000, you show up with the buyer to the lender's office and go, all right, I need the clean title. Boom, you pay it down with the check that they give you. You have your cash to cover the difference and it's over. And I would sell a private party and try to get the most you can out of this vehicle versus trading it into some dealership.

Okay, I agree with that. I might maybe get more if I, that's what I saw online, you know, but you know the dealership will probably even go lower than that. Oh yeah, they're going to give you nothing for that. They'll go, well, I'll give you six grand for a car that's worth 11 because they need to make some money too. Okay. So that's what I would do in your shoes. What's your income right now? Okay.

Well, I was kind of in South Texas and my income used to be 32, but the job that I just got, I'll be getting about 65. Wonderful. So you just got the job and you're going to move to Houston soon? Yes. Do they include any relocation packages, any money to help you with this move?

No, unfortunately. And where I used to stay, basically, I did not pay rent. I owned a place, but I went ahead and sold it to just go ahead and get the new job because I've been here for about two years and a half and I couldn't really get any more income, but just side hustle. So I decided to just

take another job to double my income and also possibly making commission plus bonus. Good for you. Excellent. Plus you get to root for the Astros, which is amazing. Arguably the best part. Easily the best part. Okay, well, so I think I will just go ahead and, you know, push myself and pay the difference and try to sell a heel within this month on a private party. Yeah, and then limit how much it's going to cost to move. How soon is the move? Is it a month from now?

No, it's actually in the next two weeks. Next two weeks. Okay. So I'd scrape together any money you can. Do you need a car in the meantime? How are you going to move? Well, I'm using the truck that I have right now to basically move. But I'm thinking, you know, after I sell it, I'm just going to give me something cheap for like $3.

$2,500 and just drive it for two years until I save up and pay everything that I need to pay first and then worry about the car later. You are thinking correctly, my friend. That is awesome. I love this plan and it's not going to be a nice car. It's going to be a beater, but you make sure you get a good inspection on it so there's no major issues. If you buy something for three or four grand, you'll be able to upgrade probably within a year if you have no other debt to where you can then have a $6,000 car, an $8,000 car,

And that's what John and I have done for years, and it's the best way. I never think you should drive your nicest car at a young age. That ruins you. When I see 16-year-olds driving brand new cars, it just hurts my soul. Yeah, man. Mostly out of jealousy. My car's... You don't even know how to... You've been driving for three seconds. You're going to crash that thing. Plus, I just like to go back to 1984 every once in a while. 82. Any car still on the road today is...

It's like a Porsche compared to what people are... Like, just... We're fine. Everybody's fine. We're so dramatic about our cars. Oh, gosh. Now it's the leather's not nice enough. Oh, yeah. Or the... Well, it's like iPhones. I look... You know, when the iPhone 8 came out, I was like, this is the most amazing phone. Now I see an iPhone 8, I'm like, oh, my gosh. What a relic of the past that is. And the iPhone 1 was like a... It's like a spaceship. Yeah.

And we're like, oh, gosh, are you poor? Like, God, get over yourselves, people. Yeah. If they get you from A to Z, it's fine. We sound like old guys, John. It's not good. All right, Caitlin's up next in St. Paul. What's happening, Caitlin? Hi, guys. So you guys are great. I've kind of followed everything. We have, like, our emergency savings. We have life insurance. We have one child. We have a savings account for him. I have my...

retirement at 15% and now I'm just trying to look at like paying off our big mortgage in a faster way. So I went to our credit union to kind of do biweekly payments instead of monthly. So we're paying more interest down faster and then trying to look at making extra payments as well. But they're telling me that they won't let me do biweekly payments, that basically what they'll do is they'll put it into a savings account

and they'll still only pay my payment monthly. Can they technically do that? They can do whatever they want. They make the rules for how the payments work on the mortgage. But here's the good news. The whole idea of paying biweekly to save some interest, you can do the same thing yourself once a month with your normal payment. Just add extra to the principal. Okay. And so that's a simple way. When you actually do the math, you're just paying an extra payment a year kind of accidentally.

Okay. Because of how the weeks versus months go. Yeah. So however much it was in each check, just go, all right, we're going to double that and do that once a month on the principal, on a normal payment. That's how I paid off my mortgage early. If the mortgage is $2,000 and you want to put an extra thousand, put an extra thousand with that principal. Just make sure you designate it. This is for principal. Otherwise, if you don't designate it, they'll often roll it into- Pre-pay interest or something. Pre-pay interest.

Okay, so principal only. Yes. And you can usually, I don't know how your credit union works, you can do that online. But if you're there in person, just say, hey, I want to auto pay an extra thousand toward the principal every single month along with my normal payment. And they should be able to do that. No problem. Never pay a fee for any of this.

Okay. Sounds great. Thank you guys so much. Awesome. Way to go, Caitlin. She's calling. She's like, I got the emergency fund. I got the life insurance. I'm investing 15%, which is, that's the steps, John. There's an order to the madness. Baby step one, $1,000 starter emergency fund. Baby step two, knocking out consumer debt. Baby step three, three to six months expenses in an emergency fund. Baby step four, 15%. Then you start to do these simultaneously. Well, hey, I'm a huge TikTok fan, as you know. Huge, huge TikTok fan. I don't even know how long again. But,

I've heard that over and over, that you want to pay. There's some secret mortgage hack to paying every two weeks. That's not right? Well, here's the thing. You pay 26 payments, right? Which is 13 months worth instead of 12. So you're just paying an extra payment. That's it. Oh, man. So instead of 12 payments, you're doing 26 payments. That really turned out to 13 whole payments. So just pay extra once a month. That's it, guys. That's it. You ruined my TikTok dreams. Life hack over.

I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills? Yeah.

I'm going to eat next week. Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. Like it's just, it is, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Ava joins us up next in San Jose. Ava, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, thank you. I am such a huge fan of Dr. John and you. This is amazing. That's so kind. Can you clear something up for us, Ava? Who are you a bigger fan of? Just kidding. Don't answer that.

All right, go ahead. What's up? Okay, that's a tough one. What's up? What's up? So I am a newlywed in the Bay Area of California, and we make a pretty decent income, but the housing prices out here are insane. So I want some advice on how we can best save for houses when everything is upwards of $900,000. Okay. Okay. You get to choose your own adventure. Do you want George and I to make up a pretty amazing story about what y'all could do?

Or do you want us to tell you the truth? You get to pick. I think I need the truth. We can make up great stories. We're pretty good at it. Okay, go for it. It's the government's fault. I don't know. I was just trying. I'm not good at it. So the worst thing you're going to run up against, and George is going to walk you through it, math doesn't care how in love you are. It doesn't care what the prices are. It doesn't care about anything. It's just math. The question you have to answer is,

How unsafe and at risk do I want to put me and my new marriage and my new family in the pursuit of this thing that everyone has told me I have to have in order to be complete? That's the bigger question. Okay. How old are you two? We're 23. Okay. Okay.

The last I checked in the Constitution, there's no law that says 23-year-old newlyweds are entitled to a home in California. They must be homeowners by 25 or else their life is over. You're the worst failure. It's not in there. How much do you make? Gross, $140,000. Together? Together, yeah. Okay, cool. So what are you taking home every month? About $8,000 net. That's after insurance, 401k, all that. And you guys are just getting started in your careers.

Yeah, yeah. I just started in February. So let's paint a broader picture instead of I can't buy a house in California today and go, okay, let's make a goal that three years from now, five years from now, if we want to stay in California, this is where our careers and family holds us. We want to be able to purchase a home.

This opens your options. You go, okay, a home, that could mean it could be further out. It might be a townhome. It might be a condo. We just want to get our foot in the door of the real estate market and do it in a smart way. How much would we need to save up? Well, you might need to save up two or 300 grand if your income stays the same.

But that's barring other things happening, like your income going up significantly. And so that kind of helps me go, okay, what are the facts? So the emotions are, oh my gosh, I'll never own a home. The American dream is dead. Or we make so much money. We've worked so hard. How do we make 140,000? We can't even buy a house. I hate everyone. The whole system's against us. Let's burn it all to the ground. Like there's so much spent energy there that accomplishes nothing for your goal, which is what you and your husband want to have a house, right?

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Our goal is to have something better than what we're in when we want to have kids. Amazing. And do you guys commute to work currently? I work from home most of the time. My husband commutes about an hour a day, each way. And is that because where he works is an insane area to live? Yeah, it just isn't feasible. I mean, it's closer to San Francisco. We live south of that, and we have super cheap rent, so we're just not willing...

to leave that and spend $4,000 for something equivalent. It just doesn't make sense at this point. What do you do for a living? I'm an M&A analyst at an accounting firm, and my husband is an assistant project manager for underground construction. Can I tell you something bananas? Go for it. I believe with all my guts that you could move to Dallas, Texas or Austin, Texas or Nashville, Tennessee, and both of y'all could find $70,000 a year jobs.

You know, it's funny you say that because I can keep my California pay and move to Dallas. I just picked those cities randomly just because I'm from Texas and I live in Tennessee. But here's the thing. It's also where people are actually going when they leave California. Yeah, that's a huge, and that in Florida. But as George was saying, you guys want to ask yourselves in three years, what kind of life do we want to have? And I want you to throw in another variable, which is geography. And if you can bend on one of those variables, right?

Then there's suddenly a path emerges where people get stuck and enraged and anger is they want everything all right now. I went all the way exactly the way I want it and I refuse to bend. And so I'm going to burn all of your world down because I'm not getting my way versus no, we want to have this size house so that we can have a family.

okay, can we do that in Dallas? Or we want to live in California because that's where all our friends and family are. Okay, it's going to cost us. So we might have a condo, which by the way, you can raise an amazing family in a condo, right? Or we're going to rent. It just allows you some freedom. It opens up, I love the way you said that. It just, it opens up your mind. It lets you step back a little bit from the current, ah, to, okay, at 28 years old, what do we want our world to feel like and look like? Let's do the best we can to get there.

Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Do you guys have any debt? No. So we just paid off my car in May and that was our only debt. Awesome. So we're all good there. Amazing. And you're starting to build up some savings?

Yeah, we have about $25,000 in a high yield. That's great. So let's call that your emergency fund. And so now we're on to baby step 3B, which is this down payment land. And so the question becomes, how much can we save? How aggressively do we want to save? And like John said, is this where we actually want to stay put? Should we be searching in this area or do we need to search outside of here? Is it worth moving? Because to live in an ultra high cost of living area, which is where you guys are at, you kind of need an ultra high income to match that.

And so if you're going to work near San Francisco, yes, you might need to make 200 grand or more just to survive out there if you want to live right there. Yeah. And I don't know about you. I don't want a long term, you know, hour each way commute because that's going to eat up your life. Right. And so I think we just need to look further out. Right.

Yeah. Our goal is either to move closer to San Francisco and one of the surrounding areas that's a little cheaper, or we're seriously considering Dallas because I could keep my job. Okay. Well, that's fantastic. And so the other thing that I think a lot of 23-year-old couples make, 24, 25-year-old couples is any one decision we make is our future forever and ever. Amen. Amen.

Right. And right. George and I have both are in job what six, seven, eight since we were 23 live in different places. I'm in a different state. I think George different. Like, like, it's just hard to project where you're going to be when you're 40. So we're going to make the next right move. Always knowing the coolest thing about our life is we get to choose what happens next. We can we can change this.

Mm-hmm. That's actually a really good perspective. It feels like we've been moving at a million miles per hour the past year being married and trying to figure it all out. There you go. All you have to figure out right now is what's the next right move. And the next right move is cool. Let's start saving for a house because we both know that. We don't know where it's going to be, but we're making good money. We can both just start saving up for it. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good perspective. And by the way, all this energy is going to be there.

All the energy. And you can channel it into rage. You can channel it into how dare they. You can channel it into entitlement or you can channel into, all right, I'm just going to do the next right thing. But that energy has got to go somewhere. And man, I love people choosing. All right, I'm going to go be proactive about this and I'm going to go make it happen. But, and by the way, George, can we call this out?

Have you ever been to San Francisco area? Yeah. It's stunning. It's beautiful. The weather is just perfect. The weather in Malibu, perfect. I get why everybody wants to live there. It's easy to bag on it like, oh, it's crazy. Who would want to live there? It's amazing. And it comes at a significant cost. It's just both are true, right? It's amazing.

It's like driving around in Rachel Cruises' Tesla versus your Tesla. Very different experiences. One's amazing and one is a Tesla. I was like, somehow John's going to make this a dig at me. And he did it. It was a success. I can't even hate on that. Ava and anyone else listening who wants some resources on this, our team created a real estate hub. It's totally free.

Lots of tools and resources for those preparing to buy, wanting to buy right now, home selling, even real estate investments and tons of great tools as well. Totally free. If you want to find an agent, you want to use our home buying calculators, home payoff calculators. It's all there. Just go to RamseySolutions.com slash real estate. We'll also drop a link to that in the show notes. And we created this to be a resource for you to help you during these crazy real estate times to parse through all the noise, what's actually true to help you get to that goal. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey,

Heck, you can do it during halftime of the game if you're watching, so you got no excuse. Plus, you can make changes to your will for free for up to 180 days until you're completely satisfied. There are a lot of online will companies out there, but with Mama Bear, there are no membership fees, no subscription, and no upselling. The price you see at the beginning is the price you pay. So go to mamabearlegalforms.com and save 20% with the promo code RAMSEY.

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Lester is up next in Dallas, Texas. How can we help you, Lester? Hi there. I was calling to see about some advice on how to talk with my wife about saving more than spending. My wife's a spender. I'm a saver. We're aligned on our goals, but she just spends a lot of things here and there. And so just some advice on that. Was there like a spit shake on, hey, here's how much we're going to spend. Here's what the budget says. Stick to it.

Yeah, we've budgeted out a lot of different things. We even have a split to where we have our own fund money where it's like $100 a month that we can spend it on whatever we'd like. But there's a lot of gifts and celebrations and things like that that my wife wants to make sure we're showing love to our friends and family. And then just things add up very quickly, and then things are gone. Is this a communication challenge, or is your wife...

being spiteful because there's two different ways to approach this. I don't think it's, I don't think it's either. Um, my, my wife and I communicate very, very well, um, and frequently about it, but, and I don't think she's being very spiteful at all. She, she agrees that, um, we need to be saving and we want the, we want the things we want where a house and being able to retire as both of our families, um, are in that basket at all and don't have a retirement even in their fifties and sixties. Um,

Um, and we don't want to do that, but she just kind of forgets about the things and it doesn't think about the $20 here or $20 there, a hundred bucks here. And it just kind of adds up. And so if there's anything that we can do to try and try something different, cause we've tried like different cards that only have a certain amount of money on it each month to help limit that. But obviously I don't want her stranded. So she has access to a card that, um,

It has access to the main fund for gas and all that kind of stuff. Are you guys only using debit cards or are there some credit cards still being used? No, no, no. We only have debit cards. I hate credit. I always have. But, yeah, we only use debit cards. I don't mean to overly gender this, but this is just the way it plays out in the real world. Most of the time when I talk to men in your situation, they try to solve this with a plan.

a strategy, a new card, a new spreadsheet, a new commitment ceremony. And the only way I've ever seen somebody be successful is if they are honest with their spouse about the story behind the story, the story behind the strategy. And that would be you sitting down and saying, I need to be open with you. Can I tell you something that's scaring me to death?

and her say oh sure honey what's going on and you say i'm scared about not having any money and i'm feeling like um i'm not communicating this well because every month there's another 250 dollars in gifts and stuff like that and 20 increments and i don't feel like i'm i'm i'm i'm being fully honest here at the table and you notice i did two things here number one i was honest i thought you told her how you felt you didn't throw a strategy at her and number two you used the word i

Not you keep overspending and you keep doing it 'cause when she does that, man, she's gonna go back to her childhood, she's gonna go to war.

Yeah. My guess is she's going to have to decide. I would rather feel the short-term discomfort of not having a gift for every single thing that pops up because I never could buy gifts for anybody or I never got any gifts for anybody. And now I can. So I feel like I have to, she's got to give up that short-term pleasure for the long-term safety of me and my husband. Don't have to worry about not having anything to eat. And that's hard. And I haven't seen a way to get there without emotion.

without a story, without you saying, this is how I feel. Yeah. And if she looks at you and says, I don't care how you feel, I'm buying gifts for this thing, well, now y'all got a deeper issue y'all got to deal with. Yeah. Can you do that? Yeah, most definitely.

The other side of this, Lester, when it comes to the tactical, is that you should be sitting down with her before the month begins going, hey, what's happening this month? A birthday should not be a surprise. We know when the birthdays are happening. Christmas happens on December 25th every year. I check my calendar. Still happening. And so you kind of know what's coming up, and you adjust the budget accordingly. So if we need to add a gift...

line item in the budget, let's do that. If we need to add a miscellaneous sort of little catch-all of 50 bucks or 100 bucks, let's do that so it doesn't derail our plans. Well, that's often really important because that's when the $20 plus $20 plus $50 turns into 310 bucks and she goes, oh gosh, I don't want to do that.

Yeah. And the other thing is we check the budget before we make the purchase. So if we go to the gift and we go, oh gosh, I wish we're going to have to do a handmade gift. Let's make a little basket. Let's get some roses from the garden. Let's get creative. George made me a basket once. John still has it. He loves it. It was a great gift.

So Lester, that's where we come up with a solution together and have the conversation. But there is a part of this that's on her as far as accountability going, you need to check the budget before you make the purchase. That's how I do it. That's how you do it. We can't just hope that we lined up with the budget perfectly. We use that as our guiding kind of North Star. And I think when you do that, you start to add in these line items. It starts to be less and less of a surprise. You get to kind of align it a little more. And on top of that,

What is your next goal? What is the thing you guys both agreed to is the next thing that we're saving up for?

Well, it's not necessarily saving up for, it's like being able to pay off our debts. So you're in baby step two. Correct. So even more in baby step two, there's even more intention, intentional sacrifice and intensity here where it's going. We can't afford to buy people gifts. We got to put our own mask on first. We're broke. And think about how many gifts we can buy people. Once we're debt free with an emergency fund, we're preparing for our future. Then we can look up for opportunities to give and be generous.

And so I think that's part of it is you need to have a plan together going, we're going to pay off $700 a month of debt and here's how we're going to do it versus we really need to save more, really got to get rid of this debt. We need to get more specific so we can actually hit the target. Lester, have you tried any of these things we're throwing at you? Does it all sound crazy?

No, no, no, no. Yeah. And these are conversations we've had, but I agree. I haven't been very specific with it. My wife and I are blessed to be in the positions that we're in. I mean, I'm making more money than I ever thought I would before. And it, it's not been specific of, Hey, we're going to spend X amount of dollars on our debt every single month because we have to, um, it's just been, we want to spend more on our debts. Um, and realistically we don't have a lot of debt, um,

even student loans and medical debt and things like that included. We don't have a lot. And so within a year, we could easily have 80% of it paid off. Put that plan in front of her. Put that plan in front of her and y'all talk through it. And then more importantly than that plan, paint a picture for her of how you're going to be able to breathe in your own home. How you and her are going to have something neither of y'all have ever had, which is economic security.

Let her just absorb that and feel her husband radiating this thing that you've probably never radiated before, which is just peace. Man, it makes, there's not a lot of gifts I'm going to buy in exchange for my wife's peace, for my peace. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. And then by the way, once you get that peace, once y'all, like George said, you don't owe anybody money, you can buy gifts for everybody. You could be kind of over the top and reckless with who you buy gifts for because you don't owe anybody money.

So this little plan, this one year thing we're after, this is just part of reverse engineering the picture you painted her. So instead of we got to get on a budget, you got to spend less, it becomes, hey, remember, that's what we're aiming for. This is a little blip on that timeline of intentionality and sacrifice. Are you with me? And I hope that helps. We're going to gift you every dollar premium, Lester. What are you using right now for a budget when you guys sit down together?

pen and paper. And then I use an Excel sheet and that's kind of it. Yeah, you show a spender an Excel sheet, they implode inside. They die inside. They just die. So we're going to gift you every dollar premium. It's much easier to look at, easier to use. You both log in, you both have accountability. So while she's out, she can actually check the budget versus Lester's spreadsheet at home. So hope that helps Lester. We're wishing you the best.

as you attack this debt. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you to Dr. John Deloney, all the folks in the booth keeping the show afloat, and you, America, will be back before you know it.

Before we get to the next caller, I got some good news for you. Even when this portion of today's show runs out of time, there's still plenty more for you to tune into. Just head on over to the Ramsey Network app to finish today's show for free right there on the home screen. And if you don't have the app, just search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play, or simply click the link in the show notes for an easy download. You never know what call is coming up next, so be sure and check out the Ramsey Network app.

From Ramsey Network, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined this hour by Dr. John Deloney, best-selling author and host of The Dr. John Deloney Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You call in and we'll do our best to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Stav is going to kick us off in Toronto. What's going on, Stav?

Hi there, how are you guys? Doing well. How can we help? Good. So I'm a 22 years old. I have $200,000 in savings and I actually got accepted into law school a month ago. Now I'm

Considering taking a student loan. No, no, no, don't do that. So that's my question is what do I do? Do I pay for school outright and forget about everything and come out of school with, um, school's going to be $120,000. So come out, I think it's like $80,000 left in my bank account or take a 0% interest, uh, student loan because right now I'm getting percentage on the money that I have. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Here's why.

I was a dean of students at a law school. I worked with young attorneys in training and then as they transition out. And the number of students who had a vision of who they wanted to serve and who they wanted to help and who they wanted to go to war on behalf of got put in the trunk of a car because they had to go take the job that paid them the most money regardless of how unsafe, how toxic, how madhouse the culture was.

Right. And I watched it. It ate people alive. I want you to leave law school with 80 grand in the bank. No debt. You don't owe anybody anything. And you are armed with one of the most powerful credentials known to man, which is a North American J.D.

Right. A Juris Doctorate. You know what you can do? Anything. You can go serve the least of these. You can go work at a corporation. You can go be an executive. You can go be a member of the... I don't know if you're going to be... Are you going to school in Canada or in the States? I'm going to law school in the UK, actually. Oh, UK. Okay. So what are you going to do with a UK law school credential? Well, I'm looking to either come back to Canada or come back to America and work there. But what...

I'm going to be working with either or. So when you come back, when you go to law school in the UK, you have to do a test either in Canada or the UK, and then you can start working in either country. Okay. But then if you came to work in the States, you'd have to take whatever state's bar exam that you wanted to take, right? Correct. Correct. Is the barrister's exam in the UK the same as it is in Canada?

It is the exact same. Oh, wow. It's more similar in the UK and in Canada. There's certain things that I'll have to study for the States, but it shouldn't be a problem at all. Okay. And what job would you get right now? And by the way, it's going to change almost always changes, but what job do you think you're going to get?

You know what? I've been thinking about it and I'm looking to potentially do tax law or corporate law going to that section. But you know what? I used to think that I wanted to do family and then people are like, don't get into family. It's way too messy. And then I was thinking of potentially doing construction law and going into that. But you know what? I'm not sure yet. So I'm going to start law school, see what pulls me in and then I'll go that route. Okay. If your heart tells you to go sit with hurting families and help

take care of people in their most vulnerable moments, man, do that. Yeah. It's messy and it will, it will tear, tear, tear pieces of your soul and it's also good and right. So yeah, whatever you were going to do. Um, the only thing I would challenge you on is to really consider why the UK, unless you're going to live and practice in the UK. Right. Um, I understand because it could be a cool time to go study law and you can go over there. It's just different. It's, it's,

You're going to lose out on the networking opportunities on the local areas to getting plugged in and local places and local systems. You just lose all that when you go overseas, but is what it is, dude, but just don't borrow money. Don't come out owing. Cause man, that can make, that can, that can, you can end up sideways real, real fast.

Right. Yeah, I understand. And that was definitely one of the factors that I took that the networking is not going to be the same. But I know myself, I love talking to people and what I'm going to do is find a job in the UK that also has a firm either in the US or Canada. So that way I'll be able to transfer over. But also, I've never really traveled Europe. And so I want to take the opportunity that now that I have the money and I'm young to also travel while being in law school. You don't know what law school is about, do you?

I do, but hopefully I could take a Friday or Saturday and go somewhere close. I would recommend, dude, if that's the case, I'd recommend you defer for a year and go travel. Use some of the money and go travel. Law school is going to take your soul. It's just hard, man. It's all in. Right.

It's all in. You do what you're going to do. But man, if you want to go tour Europe, go tour Europe. You've got 200 grand in the bank. Go do that. If you want to go to law school, go to law school. Trying to combine both is going to be really, it's a recipe for being pretty disappointed. What were you saving the 200 for, Stav? I'm curious. What was this kind of earmarked for? You know what?

It's always been something that I didn't know. I'm really good at saving and I worked at tech sales and I've just always been putting money aside. I've looked at the way my family is and I'm like, they've moved to countries and I really wanted to set myself up for success. So I've just always put money in savings. I probably saved all my tech sales income, probably 90% of it. So you saved up 200 grand on your own?

So I got $120,000 by myself, and then it was $80,000 from a motor vehicle accident settlement. Okay. That's impressive, man. $120,000 on your own at 22. That's very difficult to do. So good on you for doing that. That kind of resourcefulness is what's going to get you through. I worked a lot.

Thank you. I worked a lot during university. That's why I'm hoping that potentially I won't be working in law school, but maybe I can take two days or something and go see Amsterdam or go see... Or take three weeks before you start and go travel. Yeah.

I'm doing that as well. I'm actually leaving in a week. Wonderful. Well, have a good time. Congratulations. And what a way to tell people, hey, I'm 22 and I saved up $120,000. What are you doing? Because a lot of people, John, they go, well, I just have to take out a loan, John. I just decided yesterday to go to law school and it's going to be $300,000 and we don't have that money. So I'm going to go drown myself in debt and hope for the best.

if you even make it through law school. I'm sure those are the most depressing cases where you don't even finish the very expensive degree and you still have a debt to show for it. Yeah, that's the catastrophic is when students are worse off having interacted with the university. And that's when they leave and they don't get the degree. But they leave with one semester, two years of school. The lender doesn't care if you graduate or not. They care less.

Like you owe, can't discharge it, you owe, you're paying. And if you can't pay, we'll take it from you. Yeah, we saw those stories in our documentary called Borrowed Future, where a bankruptcy lawyer who focuses on student loan cases was saying they want their pound of flesh. I'll never forget how she said it because it was so intense. And it's almost impossible to bankrupt on this, even through hardship. I mean, she was sharing the craziest stories of people who should qualify. Doesn't

Doesn't matter. And they didn't get it. They'll get it. If you got a hundred grand in cash, pay for it, man. Go to law school, do your thing, and then go on about your life. I encourage everyone to go watch the Borrowed Future documentary. It's free on our YouTube channel. It's 88 minutes. Parents watch it. Students watch it. Parents, students watch it together. It's going to spark a conversation, number one, about how to avoid student loan debt, and number two, what the path looks like to go to college debt-free the right way, regardless of what your plans are.

Woo! But you heard him say, John, I wanted to set myself up for success in the future. Well, that's what that money is then for. That's right. Success to me means freedom and options and margin when I graduate, not chains to the tune of $200,000.

And so parents, please have the conversation with your kids, even if it's awkward, even if you have your own baggage and shame and guilt and money mistakes. Do not continue to let this generation go deeply into student loan debt. Also, they go to mommy and daddy's alma mater. This is The Ramsey Show.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey good folks, the back-to-school madness is upon us. It's hitting us right now. We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on. My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects. And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

Here's what I've learned. When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first. And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole. And I know that you have to do those same things too. So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments. And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp.com.

BetterHelp is 100% online therapy staffed with licensed therapists. It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule. And therapy can help you learn positive coping skills, how to set and practice boundaries, how to become the best version of yourself, and most importantly, how to find peace in all of this chaos. In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first. Never skip therapy day.

Call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash DELONI today for 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash DELONI. Listen, the housing market is crazy. And if you've been on the internet, here's the sentiment. Affording a home is impossible and you're doomed to be a renter for the rest of your life. Right? Wrong. George Campbell here.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney.

It is time for our question of the day, brought to you by YRefi. Now, we don't recommend refinancing on everything, but for distressed private student loans specifically, there's YRefi. We trust them because they help you with a low fixed interest rate you couldn't get anywhere else to help you stick to your budget and get out of debt. That's the goal. Learn more at YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be available in all states.

Today's question comes from Brooke in Kentucky. Brooke writes,

I am deeply regretting my actions and feel terrible about all the money I wasted. Is there a way to put the stupidity behind me and not be angry with myself? I mean, this sort of pathological gambling and this continuing to gamble tells me Brooke has not fully metabolized the depths of all of this. And so, I mean, anything I wanted to add here would just, you got to go to Gamblers Anonymous today.

and submit to a 12 step plan. I mean, this is so much bigger than you. And it's just gonna be tough. You can't just decide, well, I'm just gonna put this stupidity behind me and not be angry.

you haven't fully owned all of the decisions here, right? In most cases, John, with these types of any kind of addiction, really, is full sobriety the path? Is there a way for someone to go, well, I still gamble, but now it's controlled. Like, is there a piece of you that is still out of control? I mean, there's actually been some movement there over the last few years in the addiction community, this idea that like, once you admit it, you have to be sober for the rest of your life. The answer is no.

Um, and that's so individualized and it's so person by person. Um, and this is, I mean, this is in the alcoholic world. This is the equivalent of drinking two or three bottles of Jack Daniels a day for 10 years, right? I mean, probably not. If you've burned through more than half a million dollars, um, then probably in, you're still doing it.

probably you're going to have to end up at a place where you're sober. Right. But again, I can't make that call from this, from not even talking to this person, just reading their note. What I know from this note is, or what I believe I know from this note is, um, there just hasn't been a full, she didn't really deal with ownership. And here's the other thing. Um,

Healing here will come in community with other people. It will not come from some epiphany that you have in your head by yourself. It has to happen. I decided I'm going to try to be different. It has to happen in community where somebody looks at you and says, I see what you did and I still love you. I see what you did. I'm sad too. I'm hurt too. I'm angry too. I'm pissed off too. We're going to go build something new. And that has to happen in a group. But

I'd want to have a conversation with Brooke, but the, I think the most responsible thing I can tell Brooke is call a GA group right now, a gambling anonymous group right now in Kentucky and go, go see somebody like right now, right now. And for the first time in 10 years, be a hundred percent honest. Yeah. That's a mess. It's a mess. Thanks for the question, Brooke. Wishing you the best. Beth is on the phone lines up next in Sacramento. How can we help Beth?

Hi, excuse me. My adult sons, they're 34 and 39, came to me with this question and I wasn't quite sure the answer, so that's why I'm passing it to you. Their father, who I'm not married to, has taken out a reverse mortgage on his home.

And they just wanted to know when something happens and he passes away or goes to a home, what they're responsible with inheriting a reverse mortgage. Okay. Well, their name's not on the mortgage, correct? Correct. Okay. So they're not going to be personally responsible. No one's going to come after them for this, but it must be paid when he passes.

And that might mean from the estate, you know, goes through his estate is going to go through probate. The house is going to get sold before they ever get an inheritance if there is anything left. And so that's part of the process. So they can decide, hey, we're going to sell the house. We're going to take the proceeds, pay off the mortgage, and we, you know, share the rest. Or they decide we want to keep the house. We're going to still need to pay off this loan. That might mean they refinance and take out a loan, a new loan in their name to basically carry this loan to the future.

Oh, okay. But it needs to be repaid from that original lender. Okay. And now in a reverse mortgage, they don't – I was reading where they give 65 – they're able to get 65% of the equity out of the – their father was able to get 65%. So is it normally –

Completely, I don't know how to put it. Did he take a lump sum or was this payments over time where it goes up to 65% or it's capped? Oh, that I don't know. Yeah, that I don't know. So the actual, we'll need to find out what the current balance is. Is he in good health? Yes. Okay, so this could be a while. Right. I would still have a plan of attack. I mean, the fact that he went into a reverse mortgage, which is a terrible product, tells me he's not doing well financially. Right.

Right. And so likely this is just going to eat up all the equity in his home and he may not have much of a nest egg or estate for to be inherited by the children.

Right, right. And I think they had pretty much bet on that at the time when they heard that he had gotten a reverse mortgage. So they just weren't sure. Did they have like a limited amount of time to sell the house? He lives in a different state than they do. So they were just wondering what kind of mess it is that they would have to clean up. I assume they'd have to go clear out a house and. Yeah.

Yeah, if they're the heirs, there's going to be stuff to deal with. And typically heirs would have about six to 12 months to settle their reverse mortgage. They might be able to request an extension because it's out of state. You can contact the lender for details on that. But this is going to be it's not going to be a fun thing. You know, I'd much rather leave my kids with no payments to deal with. And they go, all right, here's the house. Here's the keys. And so and expect there to be significant additional interest, balloon interest fees, etc.

Like, I can see them in their head doing the math on, okay, 65%, so it's going to be this and this. Okay, we're going to get this much money out of it. Probably not. Okay, so there's on the back end of this. Oh, my gosh, yes. I'm sure the lender has all kinds of fine print on fees. Because what I, again, what I would guess a lender wants is, wants the cake and to eat it too, or however you say that thing. The lender wants the...

The lender wants that house when it's all said and done to sell it. And the lender wants the interest that it pays on that loan or that earns off that loan. And so the lender has a vested interest in claiming the home at the end of this thing. I mean, they'd be happy to go, all right, it's going to be a foreclosure and we own it.

And so that's what I don't want to happen. So they're not personally liable. If they say, hey, we want nothing to do with it, well, the lender is just going to foreclose on it. They're happy to sell it and take the money. So they will have kind of a little bit of a mess to clean up. But, yeah, they already pretty much know that once the reverse mortgage was taken out that there's probably not going to be any – that was not their concern. And they just wanted to make sure that they weren't –

responsible for his debt. No, they're not responsible. If they didn't co-sign on any debt, and this goes for any debt for any human, if your name is not on the debt, you're not going to be responsible. Okay, good. But they might not get any of this home at all. Right, yeah, they pretty much have figured that out already. That dad is not a secret billionaire. Yeah. Right. I'm sorry, you're the one dealing with it. It's money plus interest plus fees.

Right. Are you calling on their behalf just as a kind of worried mom? I was. Right. Well, yeah, because they had asked me the question. And even though I knew a reverse mortgage was not a good thing, I just didn't know then what they were responsible for. How old are the sons? 34.

34 and 39. So they've got their own families in their own homes, but they were just, you know, trying to see in the future what, you know, I think it's best for them to be prepared. Absolutely. And have a conversation with dad. Call him up and say, listen, we want to know exactly what's going on with your finances because clearly things aren't going well and we're going to have to be cleaning up this mess. Oh, not the legacy I want to leave. That's for sure, Beth. Thanks for the call. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey folks, there's a lot of half-baked investing advice out there, but here's what you can do to get more confident about this stuff. Check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVestor connects you with local financial advisors who have the heart of a teacher. They'll help you level up your knowledge and build a retirement plan based on your goals, not theirs.

Go to RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor to get connected and get more confident about your plan. That's RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor. Ramsey Solutions is a paid, non-client promoter of participating pros. Learn more at RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. The phone number to call is 888-825-5225.

Well, John and I are hitting the high seas in March of 2025, along with thousands of our friends, the entire Ramsey crew, and a bunch of you guys. It's the ultimate debt-free celebration. We're calling it the Live Like No One Else Cruise. I thought it was the Cult Cruise. That's part of it. Okay. Because on all Ramsey crews, you've got to really want to be on that. You know what I mean? There's going to be big vats of the Kool-Aid. We're all going to drink it together. Big punch bowls. That's right. Big punch bowls. Oh, my goodness. It's going to be a good time. So this is for those who are going to be on that cruise.

who are debt-free. So if you're baby step four or above, meaning you don't have any consumer debt, you have the emergency fund, you're investing 15%, now is the time to celebrate. Some of y'all, it's time because you've been debt-free for a while and you haven't done anything fun yet. And so we're creating something fun for you to do. We want to celebrate with you. More than 80% of the cabins are already booked up. So it will sell out shortly. It's seven days at sea, March 22nd through the 29th. We're stopping at Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, San

the Bahamas, Dave, Rachel, John, Ken, Jade, myself, a bunch of special guests, Stephen Curtis Chapman, Manit Chauhan, Dina Carter, one of my favorite comedians, Trey Kennedy, just announced that he'll be joining us there, magicians, songwriters, comedians. I've heard Ken Coleman has challenged all of us to a cannonball competition in the big boat pool. Wow.

I've never seen him can. He's not a big guy. I can't imagine he can make a big splash. Yeah, but I think it's all technique. And if there's somebody who's just got the technique dialed in, it's Kenny Dub Coleman. He needs the win. So I'm happy to let him have this one. He'll get the win. He'll have it. Well, you never know what's going to happen. But you have to join us to see it for yourself. So secure your spot with a $600 deposit before all the cabins are gone. RamseySolutions.com slash cruise is the place to go to book your cabin and for more information. Can't wait.

All right. Pete is in the great city of Lubbock, Texas. What's going on, Pete? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. How can we help? I have kind of an advice. So I've been in the oil and gas industry here in Texas for about 20 years. And during COVID, I was laid off from a job. Well, right now, I just found out that I'm going to be laid off again from another company probably next month. What field is this?

Oil and gas. Okay. Still in the oil and gas field. Still in the oil and gas, yes, sir. All right. And anyways, right now I'm 43 years old. I'm recently divorced, but I am debt-free. My vehicle's paid off, everything. And I really don't have really much retirement, hardly anything. The only thing is, though, that this company that's going to lay me off is actually going to give me a very significant severance package.

How much? Probably after taxes, it'll probably be around $200,000. Wow. Excellent. Well, that's some good news. And how much do you have in savings currently? Not your retirement, but how much do you have in a savings account? Not much. Probably like $2,000. That's about it. Okay. Okay.

So during this time, I've actually been contemplating before I even heard about this news that I've been wanting to change career fields. I've been wanting to get into a, to be a realtor, to get my real estate license. But my question is, is that should I, would it be okay to try this new field?

Well, I get laid off and take that money. And if I try it, then that means I might have to live off of some of it until I get my feet wet, until I basically learn what I'm supposed to do. And on top of that, I was giving my ex-wife, you know, child support payments and paying for, you know, medical. So now that my kids are going to be under her insurance, basically I'm going to have to pay for the medical insurance and still have to give her the child support money.

Well, if I'm going to school to be a realtor and learning that new trade, I'm going to have to use some of that severance to kind of keep my kids afloat. Or should I just suck it up, stick with what I know, and just find another job and put all that money into a mutual fund and just let that go? So anytime somebody calls me or asks me and they have distilled their next move down into two not great options, I always just want to tell everybody to stop.

Because in your mind, you have said option one is suck it up, stay miserable, find another job out in this West Texas heat. And by the way, I moved from Lubbock. I get it, man. It's hot. You're down there in Midland, Odessa, and down there in La Mesa. It's hot, man. It's brutal. I'm just going to have to do that. Just suck it up. Or I'm going to take this literal gift from God that fell out of the sky, 200 grand.

That I can get an emergency fund. I can begin retirement savings so my kids aren't going to have to take care of me someday. And I can go get a job, a regular job that's going to float me while I go get certified because I'm going to get certified at night with real estate classes online. And then I'm going to start hitting it up in that West Texas market. That's what I would do.

I would not use this money to float you. Why? Because you're going to get, everyone's going to tell you, oh, you got to have this car. You got to pay for this merchandising. You got to go do this and add on this. And that money's going to be gone. I'd rather see you put that money away and have it work for you downstream. And I'd rather see you go get a job, a regular old job, not making what you're used to making out in the oil and gas field, but go get a job job and know that all I'm doing is funding my life right now while I go work on the credentialing to go be a real estate agent.

Okay. That's a third option. And you're going to have to pinch. It's going to be a totally different transition for you. You've been making good money out in the oil field? Yeah, at least six figures. Yeah, it's not going to be that way for a minute. Real estate takes a lot of time to build up and get some momentum.

And so it's not going to be something you just go start tomorrow and make good money. And so that's why we're saying get a different job, get the real estate thing happening part time and start to build up your kind of book of business, get a house closed, talk to people who have been in real estate, see what it's like in your area, make sure it's right for you. Then as you get some traction, you can go, all right, now it's time to go full time. Okay. Brother, I'm telling you right now, you're going to look up in 18 months and you will have no money left.

And you may have closed one or two houses depending on what they do with the stock market. I mean, with interest rates in the next few months. Okay. That's not true. You might do five or 10. You're a hustler. But I would talk, do you have any real estate buddies that you can talk to who are actually in the business? I actually have a couple of people that I went to high school with that I just happened to see that they started in real estate maybe a couple of years ago and they looked like they were killing it pretty good. Yeah, the key word is look like it.

Real estate agents are great with the vanity plays. They can make it look like anything is happening. They're really good at that. Man, they get the best pictures. They get glamour shots. They get their nails done, hair done. Everything looks great. Right. Let me ask you this. What do you think the real estate career shift is going to give you that the oil and gas field will not? Freedom. Basically, just the freedom to...

you know, be with my kids whenever I want to not have to be tied down to a Monday through Friday job. Just, and also really just, well, what I, what I do, I mean, it pays really good, but I'm, I'm pretty much hit the ceiling and I have financial goals that I want and I'm not going to get there with what I'm doing. I mean, I can make a really good living, but

I mean, I want more. You know, I want more freedom and I want to be able to build wealth before I'm an old 65, 70-year-old man. Okay, here's what I'm going to do. When we get off air, I've got a close, close friend who's a real estate, does really well with real estate in the 806 area code. And I'm not going to do it on air, but I'll hook you up with her contact info and see if she can have a cup of coffee with you because I think your picture of what that life is like is not accurate.

Because the real estate agents I know that build the kind of wealth that you have in your mind, they're making deals at midnight on Saturday nights. And they're driving to show a house at 9 o'clock because that's when the client could do it. That's right. They're going from Amarillo to La Mesa on Saturdays, missing games. They are working round the clock. There's a million real estate agents out in West Texas that do two houses a year.

and it's supplemental income and they go to their kids games and really they got their license because they don't want to pay closing costs on their home purchases and they like to help out their friends and family every once in a while that's not what you have in mind you want to be a mogul you want to crush it and move it just the real estate folks that i know out there man they are always on call always working always hitting the next deal it's just it's it's it's a lot so hang on the line here man i'll get your contact info and i'll reach out to you personally

Hey, it's Dr. John Deloney. Look, when you're stressed about money, it makes everything feel out of control. You run around like a maniac trying to make sure everything's covered, everybody's okay. I've been there. It's the worst. But you can flip the script with an every dollar budget. It helps you track spending and expenses in real time so you always know what's happening with your money. Talk about a weight lifted off your shoulders.

Start feeling in control of your money again. Download the EveryDollar app today for free. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225. I'm George Camel here with Dr. John Deloney. Ethan's up next in Washington, D.C. What's happening, Ethan? How's it going? So I watch you guys' show all the time, and I'm a big fan. Thank you. And my question to you is...

I have zero debt. I have no credit cards, nothing. And for someone who's never bought a home before, is taking out a big loan to buy a home a good thing or a bad thing? Well, let's define big loan. What are you taking out? Well, the thing is, is that most homes, you know, are $200,000, $300,000, you know, $400,000, and homes go for crazy prices. You know, so...

So it's not that I've started to take out a loan. It's the fact, is it a good idea to? Well, it's never a good idea. The only debt that we don't yell at you for is a 15 year fixed rate mortgage. But we still don't like it. They would say the 100 percent down plan is the best plan.

It's never going to be a blessing to take out debt. But if you are going to do it for a home specifically, if you do it on a 15-year fixed rate mortgage where the payment is no more than a quarter of your after-tax income monthly, then it'll be a blessing and not a burden. That's the goal. And even then, the goal is to pay it off early. And so if your goal is to hang on to debt for 30 years, then that's a bad goal. Yeah, and the thing is, I'm 19 years old. I have $20,000 saved, and...

I'm really trying to go about it the smartest way, and I don't want to dig myself in a grave here. And I recently started a car flipping business, and I made the $20,000 in the last two weeks selling cars. And I'm just in a really complicated situation because I work for my dad, and I've worked for him all my life, but I started making all this money, and I don't know exactly what to do. I don't want to leave my dad high and dry, but I'm also making a lot of money doing this, and I work for him all week.

You know, so my question to you is, how should I invest this $20,000? Should I spend it on a down payment for some sort of loan for some sort of housing? Or should I continue to invest it and double the money and keep buying and selling trucks and cars and making money with it? Are you living at home right now? Yes. What is the urgency to go buy a house? I am engaged and my girlfriend is 24 and she's ready to get married, settle down and have kids. Are you ready?

Yeah. That was a long pause, my man. You seem like you're in a sense of panic. Just take a breather for a second. I'm in a difficult situation, man. But listen, you had a good week. My promise for you is this isn't going to happen every week of your life for the rest of your life. You had a good week. It was awesome. And I don't want to dampen it, but it was awesome. Good for you. It was amazing.

And then what you probably found at 19 years of age, which is a blessing for you, it took most of us till we were older, is the next day you just woke up and had to brush your teeth and put on deodorant again and go about your day again. Right? And so do you not want to work for your dad anymore? I want to work for my dad, but the issue is I'm making, I mean, triple, quadruple the amount of money. That's not true. That's not true. You did one time.

If you show me over six months, you're making 20 grand a week flipping cars. I would tell you to sit down with your dad and say, dad, it's time for me to move on. Cause I have, I have a million dollars in the bank and I can run this whole thing with cash. And so when things get real dicey economically and people stop buying used flipped cars, I'm going to be all right. Like dad, I'm good. You had a good week, man. Yeah. So you think I should take the 20,000? Do you think I should

Get a house with her? I think you should just slow down. If you were my brother, I would say put in a high-yield savings account, high-five yourself, take you and your girlfriend out to dinner, and then go back to work on Monday. Relax. So right now, high-yield savings account, just keep piling up money. You have no debt? No, zero. And how much money do you have in the bank right now? 20K. 20K. Okay, let's call that your emergency fund. So let's earmark it in a separate account, in a high-yield savings account, and say that is Ethan's emergency fund.

Now, outside of that, you can begin to set up another savings account and go, this is a down payment fund for the future. And my goal is to save X number a year. Let's call it with the money you're making. Let's say it was 50 grand a year. What if I could save 50 grand a year? Three years from now, I have 150 grand. And maybe you're married at that point, right? Yeah. And maybe you guys rent for the first one or three years. There's no one that says you have to get a house as soon as you're married, especially at 19. Yeah.

And so I would just pause, slow down and go, what makes sense for me in the future? Well, I got to get an engagement ring. I'm going to upgrade the car. We need a plan to cash flow the wedding. Maybe I want to go to school for some, you know, credential. Maybe she needs to go to school. Maybe she has debt that we need to pay off. So you're going to have some upcoming life goals. And I just want you to pause before jumping into a thing just because you have a pile of money sitting there.

Now, here's my next question. So my plan was my dad has a piece of property he's willing to give to me, and my plan was to take $10,000 of it, take a mobile home, because I do construction as well, totally gut it, and set it up on there, and I might have $10,000 to $15,000 in it, and we can live in there. And my plan was to build my house out of pocket and go to material auctions and biddle materials and do things like that instead of taking out a loan to buy a house.

Do you think that that will be a more viable option? I'm not a fan of mobile homes because they're a depreciating asset. So that thing's going to go down in value versus buying a normal home is going to go up in value over time. History has shown us. Or let's reverse the life you say you want to have. Let's say you find a place to rent for a year and it's, what, $2,000 a month? You get a real nice place. I don't know where you are. It's $24,000.

And then you move on. Then you buy the house that you want. If you like to go to auctions and do that kind of stuff, more power to you. It's just going to take time. What if once I build my house out of pocket, I can rent the trailer out though? Bro, you've got, listen, here's what you've got. You've got two old married guys on one side of the table and you being a 19-year-old who just had a great week.

and a 24-year-old fiance who's pressuring you to start your life faster than you're ready to start it. And so you have a choice to make. You can scramble and have this plan and buy this depreciating asset and take this piece of land and put a double wide on it and do this and flip it and slap it up, flip it, and reverse. You can do all that, dude. Or you can look at two old married guys. I got two kids. George has one. We each got a couple of dogs, and nobody could take our house from us.

And nobody can take our cars from us. And we sleep obnoxiously well at night. You see what I'm saying? Yes. I just don't want you rushing through life because it's way easier to fall flat on your face. And you're so young and so successful that it's going to be really easy to do that at the pace that you're running. And everybody will have an opinion because you're a hustler. But I want you to hear what George said because it's really important. You got $20,000. As far as George and I are concerned, you're at zero now. Now you're your own bank.

Now you can begin saving money for a home, for a truck, for a piece of land, for whatever. Start your business. Because I promise you something's going to break. You're going to have a bad month. It's just life, man. And now you've got emergency fund. Millions of people in America, millions are not in the financial position you've just stumbled into. I'm not going to say stumbled that you worked your butt off into.

Yeah. Don't go blow it. Just exhale. So I would wait until you're in the next phase of life where you've been married for a year or two. You've rented. You kind of got to know this person. I mean, I don't know how long you've been dating, but at 19, I can't imagine it's been a super long time. You don't sound like you're even ready to take the next step. So I would just pause and reassess before making any money moves. Just keep making it. Keep piling it up and you'll be all right.

Well, John, this show particularly is almost over. If you're on YouTube or podcast, it's about to end. But more calls are coming up in the Ramsey Network mobile app. And it's the only place to get full episodes of The Ramsey Show. And if you're wondering, if you're on radio, just stay right where you are. The show will continue on.

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