Get Up Off Your Butt and Live Your Life!
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Open phones this hour at 888-825-5225. Number one bestselling author, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, and author of the latest bestseller, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

Ken is my co-host today. Fresh back from doing your Jim Cantore impression. He was in Barbados with his family just in time for the hurricane to hit. So exciting. So you're a hurricane survivor now. I am. Very excited. Thankfully, it went south of us, about 100 miles south of us, and so we didn't have too much of an issue with it. If you watch the news, it blew Barbados away. I know. Well, it was terrifying.

to everybody else but me. And I got in trouble in my own house. Are you storm dad? Do you go out and stand and watch the storm outside? Are you storm dad? I had the sliding doors open. Sliding doors. Glass sliding doors. Yeah, I had them open until about midnight as it approached. And they said it was going to hit the island at about, or it was going to come close to us. At this point, we felt pretty good. It was going to go south of us. But yeah, it was freaking the kids out. But I was enjoying the blustery winds at that point.

And when we lost power at 2.30, everybody else was a little freaked out, and I did go outside for a bit. Because at that point, it was tropical storm winds. I wasn't in danger. And I am the guy who does stick his nose out there to see what's going on. I'm a little curious, probably too curious. I stand in the middle of the street watching for tornadoes. I'm Storm Dad. I'm like that, too. My kids call me. Yeah. Very much. Consequently, I've got... What does that say about us? I don't know. We don't... I mean, you just called a hurricane blustery.

I just heard that. Ken Coleman thinks a hurricane is blustery. No, it was in our neck of the woods. It went south of us. For the record, I grew up in Virginia on the coast, so I've been through these scares my whole life, so that's why the pulse rate was pretty low. But I will tell you that anything 80 to 100 miles away, you're not in danger. Okay.

Meaning the outer band of the storm. Nobody cares. This is my gym kid. The outer bands, the right side of a hurricane is always the most dangerous. So when you're about 80 to a hundred miles out, there's really nothing to be scared about. Uh, and so I wasn't, I was watching it. I was paying attention and, uh,

But my wife pulled me aside at one point. By the way, Sharon Ramsey and Stacy were texting. Sharon was checking in on us. Dave not worried about me at all. I just emailed and said, are you alive? I know. It was funny. I appreciate it. But Stacy pulled me aside and said, you need to be more sensitive to the kids' fears. They were irritated that I was so calm about it. In other words, dismissive. You should add to the drama.

That's not the dad's job. Thank you. It's not the dad's job to add to the drama. Yeah. Which I did. Unless going outside and getting conked on the head with a palm tree because you're standing outside in the middle of a hurricane. Well, you'll be proud of me. I did call the property owner and I introduced a new concept to them in Barbados. I said, do you board up the windows? Our master bedroom, we had rented a house and it had glass windows. Everything else had wood shutters on it. So it's fine.

And he said, we don't do that here. I said, well, listen, I'm not going to ask you to do it, but I think for the people who own this property, they'd probably appreciate it. And two hours later, Dave, plywood going up on the window. So I introduced a, this is what we do in Virginia. You made Home Depot Barbados some money. I did. So I did introduce that, and I told the kids, we're fine. We've got the windows boarded up so everybody can relax. I love it. Ginger's in New York. Hi, Ginger. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Good afternoon. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? I'm from, of course, New York, and I have an opportunity. I can't afford my lifestyle here, and I do have an opportunity, another job in another state down south. Being that I'm, you know, currently...

that I'm in a lot of debt at the moment. I just was trying to get, you know, a little understanding of what your viewpoint might be. Do I stay in my city that I'm comfortable with, or do I now relocate again? You can't afford your lifestyle. No. How is that comfortable?

It's not. I think you're professionally comfortable is what you're saying. Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah. Let me ask this. The job down south, does it forward you in your career or is it a complete pivot?

It's something I did previously. It would be children's services. I've done children's services before, not saying I will want to do it again. I am in school for court reporting, so that's something I am caring towards. So do they have court reporters in the South? They do, of course. Okay. And so how much of a pay bump would there be if you go down South?

No. New York. How much more money would you be making if you take this new job in the South? No, I wouldn't be making more. I'd probably be making maybe almost the same. But the cost of living, how much have you factored in, cost of living being less? Yes, I have factored cost of living being less. How much new margin, and I'm talking about real money in a budget, would that now present to you if we take this job?

Each month, you would now have this much more money because of cost of living reduction. What would that look like?

I think that'll be at least $400 to $500. It's a no-brainer. It's a no-brainer for me, and I'll tell you why. You're in school to be a court reporter. You can't afford to live where you are now. You're not going to stay in the career that you're in in New York City, and let's go reduce our expenses while we're getting qualified. Maybe even have to press pause for a little bit on the court reporting school. That's a possibility to press pause. Mm-hmm.

Because then we get our mess cleaned up from the debt standpoint, create more margin, and I can pivot into court reporting in the south. Or if I want to come back to the northeast after I've got my mess cleaned up, then I can do that. But I just think going south right now is a great option for you. Yeah, Ginger, you called me up and said, Dave, I'm drowning, but the water's warm. That's right. Yeah, no, you're gone.

You, you're just, you're, you've set out, there's just a little fear, uh, insecurity. Um, and change, you know, change is always difficult, but, but also sinking and drowning is difficult. So, um, you know, we're going to choose our pain here and we're going to choose pain that has a good upside. Um, and it's not that painful. So, um, yeah, I think you've identified correctly what you've got to do. Um,

you opened your first line when I picked up the phone was, I can't afford my lifestyle here. And so that means something has to change because you're not in Congress, so you can't print money, so we've got to have some other game plan. So Ken's exactly right. And hey, here's the other thing. Always remember, none of this has to be permanent. That's correct.

You can go south, have an adventure, get your income way up, and decide you want to come back to New York. There's nothing wrong with that idea. But coming back to New York, you know, with a victory parade where you then can afford your lifestyle.

And because you cleaned up the mess, got the income up, got the career shift done and did all of that in a, in a cheaper cost of living area and got your foundation. So it's not as if this is a decision that has to be a permanent decision. It is, it's a, you don't want to jump and move every three weeks. It's expensive emotionally and financially, but, but sometimes folks go, I'll never be back. Yeah, you can be back. You can just decide to, this is the Ramsey show.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, good folks, it's Deloney. And with back to school madness on deck, my family's schedule is already so packed. And we haven't even made room for things like exercise and date nights and counseling and all the other things that make our life even worth living. When it comes to taking care of me, I have to remember to put on my oxygen mask first, meaning I have to do the things that help me stay well and whole. And you have to do the same thing too.

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That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Malachi's in Tucson, Arizona. Hey, Malachi, how are you? Pretty good. How about yourself? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I have myself in kind of a financial hole that I'm finding harder to get out of than I expected.

I have debt that I'm trying to get rid of, but it just seems like it's not getting anywhere. That's no fun. How much debt have you got, brother? I have just about $260,000 of debt. Okay. Give me a little breakdown on that. What's the categories? So $250,000 of that is my house and the other...

I'd say about $10,000 is money that I owe family. So you don't owe anything on a car or a credit card or a student loan? I do owe $4,000 on my car. Okay. All right. And what else? Anything else? No, other than that, that's it. Okay. And so what's your income, sir? My income is at $90,000 per year right now. Okay. Okay.

So why can you not pay these bills with $90,000? Well, I've been eating away at the debt of my home just over six months. I've paid $110,000 of it. That's far from being stuck, sir. That's actually incredible progress. Yeah, it just doesn't quite feel that way. I have no money in the bank. Well, you paid it all on debt.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're not going to have money in the bank until you clear the debt. So I would back up and knock the $4,000 car debt and the $10,000 family debt out next before I pay any extra on the house. And then I would put an emergency fund in place of three to six months of expenses. And so I'd put $15,000 in a high-yield savings account that's sitting there just for emergencies. Right.

And so I just gave you $30,000 worth of an assignment. How quick can you knock 30 out? Well, I would have to figure about six months, maybe less. Yeah, that sounds right. Because you're living on nothing. You're game on. I mean, you've not got any lifestyle eating this up, or you wouldn't be making this kind of mathematical progress. Yeah. You're already pretty stinking frugal, aren't you?

Very much so, yeah. I'm thinking. Basically top robbing every day. There you go. Yeah, I got a different word for you, Malachi. You don't have an elimination problem. You have an allocation problem. And our baby steps, the snowball, is where you start here. And all of a sudden, this momentum is going to just be unbelievable for you. You've just been going about it the wrong way. Get the family and the car off your back and emergency fund in place of $15,000. That's $30,000 worth.

Then you go back and start talking about the house again, and you don't have to be so intense on the house. You're going to wander out of that house. You don't have to be quite so fired up about it. So it's interesting, though, the way you opened the phone call with us, it sounded like you were on the verge of bankruptcy or something, like you were stuck. And quite the opposite is true. You're making incredible progress, and you're living on nothing and applying all of your money towards your goals. Right.

So, you know, you're way ahead of the game. You're far from stuck, sir. You're actually very successful. Well, I mean, you know, I'm 23 years old, just turned 23. And I just felt, I guess, off that I have no money in the bank and, you know. Well, that's fair. Okay. But, you know, you understand the progress you're making mathematically is pretty incredible.

I can see that, yes. Okay. All right. I want you to own that because that helps you continue because if you feel like you're doing something wrong, you know, you lose your emotional momentum to fight on through. But get the family off your back, not like they're on your back. They may or may not be. And get the car off your back. It is definitely there. And have $15,000 in the bank. I think that'll put you in a different emotional spot. And then let's turn up the lifestyle a little bit, like have a life.

and uh and slow down a little bit on paying off the house i want you to pay it off in you know four or five years three or four years so like i don't know you're 27 with a paid for house in tucson arizona that would be a weird gen z thing to do lovely

You know, I want to point out to our audience, we have a lot of new people joining us all the time. And I'm glad, Dave, that you're here on this call because this is an example of why so many years ago you created the Baby Steps to create not just financial momentum, but actually emotional momentum. And so here's a guy who's got his act together. The studio audience is shocked. There's a 23-year-old. He's like, I feel like I'm stuck. Well, he's been putting all of his money on the biggest piece of his debt, which is the house.

And therefore he has no emotional momentum. And that's why he presents this way. And that's the magic of what you created all these years ago. The power of baby steps is you can go anywhere you want to go if you just keep walking. Right.

It's just one step at a time. Right. And so, um, he feels like he's in a hamster wheel right now because he's going at it the wrong order. Yeah. Yeah. And so knock out the little stuff, you know, start achieving some of the goals. So hang on Malachi, I'm going to send you a copy of the book, the total money makeover about 10 million people have got it. So it's working.

And the baby steps are outlined in that, and it'll show you exactly what to do, and it'll change that. Because Ken's right. What we figured out, Malachi, and for the rest of you, is that personal finance is 80% behavior. It's only 20% head knowledge. The mathematics of wealth building you learn by the sixth grade. It's not rocket science. This is not med school.

You don't have to have a master's degree in finance and statistics to become wealthy. It's literally sixth grade math. So math is not our problem.

It's not bothering to pay attention to the guy in the mirror and his decisions. Malachi is paying attention to the guy in the mirror and is making great progress. We're just going to redirect his progress a little bit so he feels it. That's exactly right. And if you feel it, then that matters because this is behavior. Yeah.

So it's all about feedback loops, the psychologist would tell you. So you're not going to keep going to the gym and not quit eating and not stay away from donuts if you don't lose weight as a result. You're like, bring on the donuts and I'm not sweating. If I'm going to lose, if I'm going to not lose weight or I'm going to gain weight, I might as well enjoy it.

But if you go to the gym and you stay away from donuts, I'm talking to Dave, then you can drop some poundage. And then you go, oh, well, that behavior resulted in a result that I like. So I get a feedback. That's exactly right. Positive feedback keeps me doing it. Yes. That's a feedback loop. And that's where all this comes from and where it goes to. So very, very good stuff. Devin is in Kansas City. Hi, Devin. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, thank you guys for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Hey, so me and my wife are wanting to know if we are in a good financing spot to make her a stay-at-home mom. Can you live on your income? I believe so. It's going to be tighter than what we're used to. Well, of course. After budgeting it out and doing our every dollar budget. What do you make? I make about $56,000 a year. What does she make? She makes about between $20,000 and $25,000. How many kids have you got?

So we've got one right now and one on the way due in about November. Okay. Well, daycare and some professional clothing is just about eating up her income. Yeah, she works in a daycare, luckily. Oh, well, then it's not. Then it's not. So she gets $25,000 plus she gets a deal on the baby daycare, right? Yeah, and I think we would technically qualify for daycare assistance in Kansas. So that would help out as well.

I don't even know what that is, but okay. We have daycare assistance. All right, good. That's another government program. It sounds like a joy to me, but I don't guess you need that if she's going to be at home. Yeah, correct. So here's what you do, man. Not only run your budget, between now and the time she quits, live two or three months on your income without touching hers.

and apply all of her income or more to your baby steps and prove to yourself that you can live on your income. Just act like she doesn't have an income and run your household because if she quits, she ain't going to have an income. You better get used to that. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. The best way to make the most of your money is a plan. Tell your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. Most people, the money comes in, the money goes out, only the names are changed to protect the innocent. We don't know where it went. That's most people. And then you scratch your head and wonder why you're broke. If you ran a company and your job was to manage money, and you managed money the way you manage money for you, you'd get fired.

For incompetence. So, because if you work in a business, you're supposed to have a budget. And then you're supposed to, like, stick to it and stuff. Hello? That's kind of basic, y'all. I mean, it's really not hard. But it's hard because it's dealing with me, and I've got to look at the teenager and go, no. And I've got to have a discussion with my spouse about spending. And, you know, we've got to quit eating out every freaking night of our lives, right?

And then wondering why we have no retirement because we're eating it. That's why basic stuff like that comes up when you do a budget. Hello. That's why we came up with the idea that every dollar needs an assignment. Every dollar needs a name. Every dollar of your money before the month begins needs a mission beside it.

You need to send it out there to do stuff for you. You work too hard to be broke. And the only thing that fixes that is giving every dollar an assignment. That's why we named the world's best budgeting app EveryDollar. And that's why tens of millions, no exaggeration, tens of millions of people are using EveryDollar every month, the budgeting app.

to run their budget with their spouse. Download EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play or go to EveryDollar.com. And let's get started, boys and girls. It's time to do this. Open phones at 888-825-5225. John's in New York. Hey, John, how are you? Hi, Dave. How are you, sir? Better than I deserve. What's up? Good. So I'm around 23 years old, and I have around 57,000 liquid cash in the bank.

And I got kind of screwed over by the car industry twice now. When I was 19, I bought a new Mustang. Hindsight, very bad mistake.

Um, and obviously I was upside down and then, uh, now I have a Cadillac. Obviously I got a pre-owned. I now that loan is around at 35,000. I just got it about eight, nine months ago. And then I have student loans of about 25,000. They're not crazy high because I went to community college. I've been listening to you guys for a while and I just wanted to, what do you make? What's that? What do you make? Around 80,000. What do you do?

I'm a bartender at my family's restaurant. Okay. Very cool. Very cool. Thank you. Okay. And so your question's what? Should I, because I've watched a couple of your videos, if I should just take the $57,000 and dump it into all the debt and just clear it, but then I have nothing left in my account, or do I do thousands at a time and knock it down as quick as I can? Okay. Is your goal to be wealthy? Yes.

Yes. Yeah. Okay. Cause you make a lot of money. You're doing really good. Thank you. You must work really hard. I do. Yeah. I work six days a week. Yeah. And some serious hours too. Yeah. Good for you. Thank you for you. Um, I mean, you're pretty sweet spot for 23 years old overall. I mean, you've done some stupid stuff. So, um, all right. A couple of things that come out of the conversation is one, you did not get screwed by the car industry. You got screwed by you, uh,

Because you walked onto the car lot and you bought a car you couldn't afford because you were acting like a child. Is that fair? Yeah. Yeah, of course it is. Okay, you're not a victim, dude. You caused this. All right. Both times. So I don't know what a guy making $80,000 that's 23 years old, working his butt off needs with a $35,000 Cadillac. I don't know why you have to have that. Right. You might rather have the cash than that. Right. So one option, sell a car.

And buy a $10,000 car for cash. And then you don't have to give up all your cash. You just give up the Cadillac. That's the main thing I want to avoid is I don't want to just deplete all my savings that I worked for. Well, I mean, then the Cadillac's on the block. So, I mean, if you want to keep the Cadillac, you need to pay it off. Right. See, your money's already gone. Paying it off, you just admit it. Yeah. You've already spent the money.

You just hadn't admitted it yet by paying off the debt. Of course, yeah. So, you know, it's so you can under, but you can, you can choose. Okay. Do I want, because basically if you sold the car for 35,000 bucks and you took $10,000 of your money, broke even got out of it, cleared it, right? Will it bring 35?

No, I think it'll bring 24 because I was upside down from the other one. Oh, you rolled negative into it. Yeah, I was around 9,000 negative. So you're going to spend 10 of your money even if you sell it, and you're going to spend another 10 of your money to buy a car, and you're going to spend some money to pay off the student loan debt. Right. So you said 25 in student loans? Yes, sir. Okay, so you're 60 and you got 57, so you don't have enough to pay off everything. Right.

Yeah. Quite. But, I mean, you're making money and you're used to stacking cash because you. So, all right, the premise is this. If we could get you where you had no payments, student loan and the car payments gone through whatever mechanism, either paying it off or selling the car, either one. You choose, okay? If we can get you where you don't have any payments but most of your money is gone, without any payments making 80K, you could stack that cash up real quick again. It won't take long, just a few months. Yes.

I mean, you probably save $5,000, $6,000 a month, can't you, if you don't have any payments? Yeah. Are you living at home? I am, yeah. Me and my mom and dad live above the restaurant. Yeah. So you got almost no overhead. I thought that. Okay. So that's how the 57 got there. Mm-hmm. I got some quick numbers here. Good for you. I want to run with you here. I think you're still walking away with Dave's plan with $11,000 in cash. Yeah.

Because if you owe 11, so you're going to pull 11 out because you're upside down. You're going to spend 10 on another car. So that's 21. 57 minus 21 is 36. We owe 25 in student loan. That leaves you with 11K. And you're debt free. No payments in a paid for $10,000 car. And you live at home with a pretty secure job. And you're stacking cash like a boss, man. Right.

You could, you, you stack 6,000. I mean, in 10 months, you'd have 60,000 bucks on top of the 11. You have $71,000 in 10 months. I mean, I also have a 10,000 in an IRA that I'm maxing out every month as well. I would, I would stop that until we get this mess cleaned up. But if you're going to clean up the mess in one fell swoop, you don't have to stop it, but you can stack cash. You're following me, especially if you don't have a car payment, 35 grand. Yeah.

And so, you know, I'm going to use up all my money, yeah, for a hot second. Mm-hmm. Because a month later, you're going to have $10,000 more. And a month later, you're going to have $8,000 more. And a month later, you're going to have, you follow me? Got you, yeah. Yeah, so you're not going to be out of cash for, but just for a few days. Well, you still have $11,000. I know, you got $11,000, but I'm saying he's 57 is down to 11, and that's causing emotional distress, right? Sure, heartburn, a lot of heartburn there. Heartburn, yeah, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So, but the point is it's, it's a temporary situation and it's the best path for you to become wealthy because your most powerful wealth building tool is your income and you don't give it all to car companies and student loan companies. You get to keep it. Right. And that causes wealth building. And that's what I'm going to tell you to do. So I would be debt free either by selling the Cadillac or not immediately. Right.

even if it caused my heart to burn and keeping because keep in mind your heart's not going to burn for very long because with no payments and serious motivation called a little bit of fear uh you're going to stack that cash real fast and you'll be right back where you are by christmas and uh you'll be a whole 23 years old wow you got lots of time to be smart now this is the ramsey show

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Financial.com. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Guys, we could use your help if you will click subscribe or follow.

on YouTube or Spotify or podcasting or whatever, Apple, wherever you are. If you subscribe to us, follow us, it changes the numbers dramatically on how those platforms push our show forward and new people discover us because you subscribed or followed because you left a five-star review because you shared the show. Some of these platforms have a share button where you can just share, send it to your buddy.

Say, hey, give these guys a listen or cut the link out and send it in an email. Or if you're listening on talk radio, just say, hey, I listen to the station. You ought to try these guys out. Just like you tell your friend about a good movie or a good book. Same thing or good Netflix thing. You need to binge watch. I'll give you one of those. Have you seen the Steve Martin documentary? No, but I'm a big Steve Martin fan. Apple TV. Okay. Two sections. The old days when he becomes famous and his current days. Yeah.

And it is, it's lights out. I'm in because I'm a big fan of his. Well, I mean, you...

The behind the scenes stuff he pulls out of his journals when he was about to fail and he almost quit. And it's, it's, uh, and then he has breakthroughs, you know, and it's just, it's pretty cool. Yeah. So I'll just see there. I just shared with you guys. I shared you something and I just gave him a free plug and you're welcome, Steve. And, uh, he needed our help. I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure. And, uh, but it's good. It's a great documentary. And he's of course doing his sister as his parents were, uh,

It was a wild family situation, man. And his sister's on there talking about it. It's pretty cool. Yeah. Did it cover any of his bluegrass music? Oh, yeah. If the casual fan doesn't know it, he's a wonderful banjo player. World class. Like incredible. Yeah. I've been on the Grand Ole Opry with it. Yeah. It's crazy. Elise is with us in Sacramento. Hi, Elise. How are you?

Hi, thank you so much for having me. I've been listening to the show for almost 10 years now, so it's an honor. So thank you for all you do for us. Well, we're honored to have you. How can we help?

I have a career question. So my question is a little background. Essentially, I am in a niche area of nursing and I've made a couple changes in my career the last two years because I essentially was burnt out in what I was doing and I was ready for a change. And so I've made that change. And now I'm almost looking into whether I should go back to that other career or as

Essentially reassurance that I'm good where I'm at. Okay. What's making you question this move? I think it's because I have multiple passions in the niche nursing areas that I'm in. And so I have the unique opportunity to be able to also what we call float back and go back and forth. But my questioning to myself is the stress.

Yeah. Yes. I didn't like it. Why would I float back to something I don't like? I think it delved into, I enjoyed what I did, but the stress eventually got to me. Right. So the question becomes though, so let's stay right there for a quick second.

The question is, was that circumstantial or is that a part of the actual gig? And it doesn't matter what hospital system I'm in, what state. It's the nature of the role or was it circumstantial to the environment? That's the real question. The stress. The nature of the role. The stress. It's the nature of the role. Because I've worked in multiple hospitals. All right. So here's the deal. So then you have to say, are there things that I have control over?

that I can do that I didn't do in the past that would allow me to manage the stress? In other words, you know it really well. So are there physical things you could do differently this time? Are there boundary issues when you're not at work? That's my question. Is there anything that you could do the second time around that would alleviate the stress?

Possibly. I don't know that I necessarily have any control over it because it's a hospital, right? Things happen and that's the nature of the job. Okay, so that's my point. So that's our answer. Yeah. If you can't control...

some of the stressors and there's something there's not something that you can do that would allow you to be in the role and thus manage the stress then i think that's your answer it's kind of it just doesn't make any sense for you to go back to it just because you can yeah it has a detrimental effect on you physically i'm burned out i was overstressed and now i'm going to walk back and do the exact same thing again that's what you're saying that's not logical that's

That's my exact worry that kept coming back. And I think I'm looking into, I'm an overthinker, so I'm looking into, oh, I missed that role. I missed a lot of aspects of it. But I'm very happy where I'm at now, and I make the same amount of money. And so I think to myself. You're done. You're not going back. Don't go back. Work happier, smarter, less stress, save money. You're having selective memory about the good parts of the old job that you left because you hated it.

Yeah, there's something deep. You let it go. Something deeper here. And I would just say you have to dig a little bit deeper into this over analytical side of your brain. Boy, do I, you're talking to an overthinker. So let me just say, I, I get that, but there's something deeper there that makes you keep wondering, am I missing out? Am I missing out? And I think you, I'm going to tell you, I'll take a stab at it. And I think maybe a session with a counselor might help or a really good friend, but,

I think that you don't trust your own judgment.

And I think there's something deeper there, but I think that's the source of this. And again, when I get into this kind of loop myself in my own life, I'm being very vulnerable and transparent to say, when I overthink, it's because I got to go back inside and go, what do I not trust in my own judgment? What's behind it? I think that's probably the source of it, just to try to help you out here, because all the common sense and all the factors here lead to don't go back, which is why Dave and I are saying, stop thinking, stay where you are. Yeah.

Gary is with us. Gary is in Greensboro, North Carolina. Hi, Gary. How are you? I'm doing well. Quick question. When you get out of debt, how do you rewire your thinking or change your thinking so you're not afraid that you might go back into debt? That's a great question. Well, I think what I did when I went broke was I did an autopsy on my stupidity.

Right. And I'm like, okay, that was stupid. And that was stupid. And I was stupid when I did that. And that was stupid. And so I try not, I do a lot of stupid stuff, but I try never to do the same stupid thing over. So if I just go, okay, that's one less stupid thing I know not to do. And so if I, if I do stupid things now, it's new stupid things, right? You know what I'm saying? And that's kind of how I looked at the debt thing. I looked at it and went, that didn't work. Why would I go back to something that didn't work? It did not bring me joy, you know?

It's just not bringing me joy. Thank you, Marie. I guess I was thinking you worry about having a major housing expense that you can't, that you're not quite fully funded. Well, that's called savings. Right. But what do you do in the meantime before your savings gets to that level? That's kind of where we're at. We're out of debt. We're working on growing. That's a different kind of a, okay, so that's fear of an outside variable coming at you, not you relapsing into stupidity.

Okay. That's a different fear, right? Okay. So I misunderstood you. I'm sorry. I thought you were talking. So you're saying I don't have enough money to put heat and air in. If my heat and air goes out, what am I going to do? Exactly. Okay. So how much money have you got saved? Right now we've got about $6,000 to $7,000 in savings account. All right. And what's your household income? About $54,000. Okay. So you'd have to have a $10,000 expense before anything really bad

Before you were back to actually facing the decision about debt. Because if you had a $3,000 expense, you'd just do it, right? Correct. If you had a $5,000 expense, you'd just do it. It would hurt, but you'd just do it. Right. Yeah. What would you say to your kids if they came home one day and said, Dad, I'm worried about what's going to happen on this sports team that I just signed up for two, three games in? What would you say to them?

Work hard and do your best. Yeah, you're not. Don't worry about it. You're worrying about something that hasn't happened. Today has enough worry of its own. Don't worry about tomorrow. Dale Carnegie did a whole segment on worry, and he said the statisticians tell us that 80% of what we worry about never occurs. Yeah, that's fascinating. So the number of personal emergencies that a guy making $54,000 has that's over $6,000 is virtually zero.

virtually zero. So, yeah, your statistical probability of that happening is almost none. So you're worrying about something's not going to happen. Keep piling up cash, my man. You're going to be fine. This is Ramsey Sheldon.

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build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, number one best-selling author, host of The Ken Coleman Show, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Marcus is in Boston. Hey, Marcus, how are you? Hey, Dave, appreciate you taking my call. Sure, what's up?

Hey, so, um, I'm going to make a long story as short as I can. So I have, I own my own insurance practice and financial practice a couple of years ago. Um, and basically it was costing me more money than what I was making. And, uh, I pumped all my savings and I even cleared out some Roths, um, to keep it afloat. Well, I eventually got out of that and, um, uh,

Didn't realize the negative ledger that I had, the negative account that I had would go into collections. Well, I started paying and they started calling me on a biweekly basis. And then it became, you know, six, seven times a week. And I was making consistent payments of 30 to 50 bucks a month.

But they've stopped calling me, and I just want to, you know, I don't want to just think this thing has gone away and that, you know, should I be worried about them drawing up a lawsuit against me? What is the debt for? So I actually did the exact opposite of what you believe in regarding I sold whole life insurance, variable whole life and annuities. Oh, so this is commissioned chargebacks. Yes.

Yeah, exactly. When you get paid, you're not really getting it. I know. And so these are commission chargebacks. So the company that you used to sell insurance for is going to sue you? No, not yet. I'm just trying to find out. How much do you owe them in commission chargebacks? $1,500. So it's really not. $1,500? Yeah. What do you make now? Right now I make around, I'm on page for $75, but I'm also at another job.

And you're also at another job in addition to the $75,000? Oh, no. So, yeah, I work a more than full-time job, and I'm on pace to make $75,000. Gotcha. But I got in such a hole with my practice that... Oh, no, but $1,500 solves this problem. Right, yeah. And you make $75,000. Yeah, I'm on pace for that, yeah. Well, what's on pace mean?

You either make it, are you going to make it or not? Is it commission again, right? No, no, no. I'm in a totally different field now. I'm in logistics. I do have a stable income, but it does vary on how much I, on whether how much. Okay. So what'd you make last month, honey? So I pulled in 6,500. Okay. What will you make this month? I'm on pace for around, let's say 62. Okay. Why can't you just write him a check?

I have another range of debts that are, frankly, far more, that have far more urgency than these people. I mean, and from a liquidity, like I said, I got in such a hole. I got three behind on my mortgage. How much other debt have you got? Let's say about seven grand. Are you current on your home? I am. What's the seven grand owed to?

other credit cards, and then a couple medical bills. Okay, so why are they more urgent than these people who are getting ready to sue you? Because this life insurance company is going to sue you, dude. I don't care if they got quiet or not. They're going to get their charge back. I've never seen a life insurance company that didn't get a charge back commission back out of somebody's hide. They're coming for this. Medical bills might get around to it in two or three years, credit cards in three or four years, but these boys are coming. I don't care whether they're quiet or not.

Right. So $8,500 cleans up your entire mess. And there's a lot more than $8,500 stress in your voice. I think it's because you got the crap knocked out of you. Oh, I did. I told some of your, some of your confidence. And so this 8,500 bucks, 7,000 of credit cards and medical bills plus 1500 of commission chargebacks feels like 85,000 in your emotions.

Yeah, exactly. Because here's the thing. I'm making good money subjective. I'm making pretty good money. You are. And I am current, but from a liquidity standpoint, I have other investments that are illiquid. I'm not going to incur those fees. What I have readily available right now is $2,000. Other investments that are illiquid. Like what? Well, I got a couple mutual funds, a couple Roths. You have mutual funds that are not in a retirement plan?

So, well, so I have, I have, um, do you have any non-retirement investments? So they're all retirement investments right now. Um, I, I just opened up, like I said, I just opened up a new Roth. I actually drained my old one. Um, and like I said, if I, if, if I have an emergency fund right now, if something, if my car broke down or something, I have 2000 available liquid.

um i you know i know you're going to tell me to pay this off 1500 um i just did yeah yeah but but what happens is you know as soon as you get rid of the money that you have something worse happens you know we want that emergency fund dude you are running so scared you're not even thinking clear okay eighty five hundred dollars makes your whole stomach unwind and it's in your throat

$8,000 lousy dollars. It's not $85,000. And you make $75,000. You need to sit down and do a written budget tonight. Are you married? No. Okay.

You need to sit down and do a written budget, detail out exactly where every dollar of your money is going to go this month, list your debts, smallest debt to largest debt, and begin to pay them off as soon as possible. Take $1,000 of the $2,000 and apply to that. Liquidate all non-retirement investments. I don't want to hear illiquid investments. There's no such thing. Sell the stupid Bitcoin.

sell the stupid whole life policy. Get out of it. Get your money out. You need the money. Cause honey, if you didn't have, if you didn't have this $8,500 worth of debt, you would have, you have so much peace in your life and you could put the rest of this crap in your rear view mirror.

Yeah, I would get busy too. You know, you can make money. It sounds like you're a single guy. You've got some time. I would be freelancing in the logistics space. I would be, if I have to go drive, deliver, do landscaping, just to get yourself some breathing room because you can knock this out really quickly. You just start calculating how many hours would I need to work at X amount of dollars to make an additional investment.

$8,500. Just start playing with us and start to see possibilities. I mean, you make $6,500 a month. You're a single guy. And so you put $2,000 a month on this. You're done in three months, four months. I think the budget probably takes care of this. Sit down and do a budget. Sit down and lay out how you're going to do it. And so $2,000 a month, four months, you're done. That's it. And then you build up your savings, a good three to six months of expenses. And then you figured out that. So, yeah.

So folks, 85% of the people that start in the whole life business as life insurance salesmen are gone in one year. That's what that is. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is our co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Today's question comes from Jonathan in Massachusetts.

Jonathan says, without getting too deep in the weeds about my background, I've always had what I would consider a menial job on a help desk, and I don't see that changing in the future. My concern is about the example I'm setting up for my five-year-old son. What can I do to ensure he succeeds at his chosen career when the time comes, and how do I encourage him so that he actually does something meaningful with his professional life? I will keep his mind open to trade school possibilities and won't dismiss anything. He simply has to do better than I have.

Wow. Man, I wish I could give you a hug, Jonathan. I would say to those who feel like Jonathan feels, you can change your future. You can change your future professionally. But to the specific question, this is kind of a parenting question on how do we set our kids up so that they can do something meaningful in their professional life. And I think it's a very simple formula that I teach myself.

And it's in a simple sentence. If they use what they do best to do something they enjoy, to produce a result that they care about, they're going to be very, very fulfilled. That is the recipe to meaningful work. That's in the book Paycheck to Purpose. That's right. The Paycheck to Purpose, we unveil seven stages that will get you there, a clear path to get you there. But that's the formula. So how do we do this with our kids? So early on, mom and dad, pay attention.

Pay attention to the things that have come easy to them. I mean, from the time they were toddlers all the way up through high school. What are the things that just have naturally come easy for them? Maybe their siblings struggle, but it comes easy for them. Help them see that. Help them pay attention to the compliments they get. Where are they getting compliments in their life?

This is just basic awareness that you as parents instinctively are going to be able to see, but you help your kids see this. And what this does early on, before we ever start thinking about college and a major and a professional life, we start to pay attention to what they're good at. There's a high correlation, Dave, between the things that we're good at and the things that we actually enjoy doing.

And so you don't generally enjoy something you suck at. That's right. The only exception of golf. That was what I was going to say. And that's because of the company and the surroundings. Right. And so we start there. Let's not overthink this. And so as they're younger and they're beginning to age into high school and there's pressure to choose a college and then a major and a career path.

Hopefully as parents, we've given them this foundation that early on they're paying attention to. This is what I'm good at and this is what I enjoy. And as they begin to experience more of life, let them test some things. Here's one thing I don't think parents do enough of in America.

And I think it's when we get a kid who, let's say, says, I like working on machines. I'm good at fixing stuff. One of the things I would do is I would allow them to spend time with people in different walks of life that are in some ways fixing something, solving a problem mechanically or maybe with their minds and begin to let these kids shadow and see the real thing.

I think you'll see your kids' eyes light up. So we've made this thing too complex because what we do is we put pressure on these kids to choose a name brand school and get a degree that seems to make a lot of sense according to Kiplinger's and U.S. News & World Report. God help us. And we push kids into a career that they end up in their –

early 30s regretting that they did and they can't use a degree. So that's the answer. Now, we actually have a student assessment. It's called the Get Clear Career Assessment. You can get it at ramsaysolutions.com. And it's actually made for students.

We took the adult version, which has been a wild success. Probably not going to work for a five-year-old. And we simplified it. Not a five-year-old. But as I'm talking to parents in general, this is a wonderful tool. If you've got a high schooler, get this assessment. The results will allow you and them to get on the same page and begin to talk practically through the advice I just gave. And I'm really proud of the tool because it actually works. Yeah, it does. It's an incredible tool. So what you're referring to is what the old proverb says in the Bible, that

In King James versions, I like the King James version on this. It says, train up a child in the way he is bent. The other versions say train up a child in the way he should go, and when he's old, he'll not depart from it.

But bent, meaning what is his natural bent? What is his giftings? And find that and then accentuate that. And by the way, a kid that likes to work on things doesn't necessarily mean that he or she is a mechanic. That's right. They could be a mechanical engineer. Mm-hmm.

If you see things spatially, you could be an engineer. And by the way, engineers are the number one career category of millionaires. Correct. So highest probability of being a millionaire. So among our study anyway. So, yeah, it's very, very interesting. I got to circle back, though, Jonathan, and tell you, raising kids, more is caught than taught. And so if he doesn't see his dad going for it.

And stepping up and stepping out instead settles back in that easy chair at the menial desk job. And I'm just, uh, what are you freaking Eeyore? Get up, man, get up, throw your shoulders back, suck it up, step out. I don't care how old you are. Some really great careers start in fifth people's 50s, 60s and 70s. Colonel Sanders never fried chicken publicly until he was 72. Wow.

Leonardo da Vinci painted the Sistine Chapel laying on his back. It's the ceiling, by the way, boys and girls at 78 years old. It ain't over as long as you're sucking wind. So stand up, throw your shoulders back, suck it up and go do something, buddy. Your five-year-old needs to see you do that. That's right. That's what he needs to see you do this. I'm stuck. It's always going to be this way. Oh, crap, man. Get up.

That's silly. Don't do that. Don't do that with your life. Your life is too precious for you to do this. Ken wants to give you a hug. I'm kicking you in the butt. That feels about right. I'm going to be Coach Ramsey right here, man. It's halftime. Get your butt up. You're behind. You need to catch up. Get it. Get out there, man. That's what your son needs to see. He needs to see his dad do that. Even if his dad falls flat on his face, at least he's running.

At least you get your hands scratched when you fall, hit the pavement. You get your nose bloodied when you fall and hit the pavement. Shut up. Get up and do it again, man. This is how you live your life. This is a life. This email screams of quiet desperation. Yeah, it's true. Come on, man. Your kid needs to see that. More is caught than taught.

They're not going to excel if they've never seen any adults excel. If all the adults in their life settle, please expect them to settle. Please expect them to do that. If the adults in their life esteem academics, expect them to esteem academics. If the adults in their life fill in the blank, expect them to fill in that blank. Whatever it is, okay, hello. It's what these kiddos are. Now, some of them will revolt directly against it, but at least they got something to bounce off of.

So get it, get it, get it done. I had a friend who's a real estate agent, a friend of my dad's. I used to do deals with him and he worked all the time. He just passed away. He worked all the time. He had two kids. One of them said, I'm going to be a teacher. I'm never getting real estate business.

My dad worked all the time. Yeah. You know what the other one does? Real estate. Real estate business. That's right. At least you got something to bounce off of, man. That's true. I think that's absolutely right. By the way, he, in all reality, he's a very affordable tech certification program away from potentially doubling his salary. Oh, God. Because he's got a background in tech. You say that? So he's not stuck. Yeah, he's at a support desk, a help desk. Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's tech, does it?

I'm assuming help desk means tech, but... Oh, I don't know. If it's tech, it's even worse. Yeah, you're right. Get it. I've never heard that phrase used for anything else, but I could be wrong. That's because you always need help with tech. It's funny. I actually did email our tech team today. It's like, hey, we have one guy. His full-time job is to fix the tech I break. So... Yeah, I'm in the same category. Just an entire... All the phones and computers that I walk near, they all just blow up. Mm-hmm. Like...

Like, so yeah, we got our own little help desk thing going here. I don't know what kind of help desk you're on, man, but go do something. Don't sell yourself. Don't settle. Get back to your life, man. Go have fun. Go have fun. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

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Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Sarah is in Minneapolis. Hi, Sarah. How are you?

I'm good. I'm so excited to talk to you guys and I'm a little bit scared. But thank you for taking my call. It's okay. We've never lost a patient. You'll be okay. I will get to the explanation as quickly as I can and then get to my question if that's okay. Sure.

My husband is in commercial construction. He's a field superintendent and it's a family owned company. His grandpa started it and now his dad and two uncles own it along with one other non-family CFO. We moved to Minnesota about six years ago so that my husband could work for the company and eventually take over ownership with his two brothers. My husband and his two brothers are the only family members that are interested in being owners, but the current owners also

would like to bring in a number of non-family owners as well. The succession plan has been extremely difficult to plan for. The owners have been not willing to communicate details. So we don't know how to plan for things. And two of them are set to retire at the end of this year with the other two that are going to be hanging around for another 10 to 15 more years. And so with all of that, there's just been some like character information that has,

come out about like the owners and my husband has just been questioning whether or not he actually wants to take part in the ownership anymore so we just started dreaming about moving back to South Dakota where we met and him starting his own handyman business out there and I train horses seasonally as well right now my husband brings home about 90,000 a year and I'm about 25,000

between May and September. So monthly, our consistent income is about $7,200. We have two kids at a home school. Our mortgage is about $3,000 a month. We have no car loans. We do owe $415 on our farm. What city in South Dakota? Rapid City. Okay. So it's a large enough market that he can build an actual handyman business and probably make more than he's making now. Right.

That's the hope. No, it's not a hope. He can do it. I don't know if he will or not. But, I mean, we're working with handymen. They're making $250. Awesome. Yeah, it's a huge business because nobody knows which end of a screwdriver is anymore. Our culture is tool illiterate. And so anything that breaks, they've got to call somebody. Ken Coleman.

Yeah, that's true. He can do anything. I mean, seriously, if he will show up on time and do what he said he was going to do, he can charge whatever he wants, and he'll have a line around the block. Okay. What's keeping you from saying this is a no-brainer? Because, well, one, we owe about $415,000 on our house.

And on top of that, we bought a new carper because he's so handy. Right now the house is worth $750,000. So why can't you sell it? Because by the time we would clear our debt, we would have about $150,000 left over.

And then to buy a farm. Why do you have to buy a farm? Because that's my job. I train horses and that's kind of. You have a farm now? Yes. How many acres do you have now in Minneapolis? Minneapolis, we only have 10. It's the only place to train horses is your personal farm? Yeah. I mean, South Dakota is like one thing they got is land. I don't know. Oh, yeah.

It's very expensive, though, and so that's our hang-up is we don't know if we can afford it. Cedar Rapids is expensive? No, South Dakota. I'm sorry. Rapid City. Rapid City is expensive? Same voice tone. No, it's not. Okay. Rapid City, South Dakota is not expensive. I'm sorry. You're not trying to buy 10 acres in New York. You're not. It's freaking South Dakota.

The houses that we would need, the cheapest that we were finding with a house on 10 acres of land is going for about $500,000. And I don't know if we can do that. So don't buy 10 acres of land. Go lease 10 acres of land to do your little horse business until you get the horse business big enough that it justifies a $500,000 investment, which is probably never. Yeah.

I'm with Dave here, Sarah. Let me throw an idea at you. Why don't you sell and move up there and maybe rent for a couple of years? Get your feet on the ground as in find out who's got horses, what the potential is for you. You're making way less than him, and we've already established that he should be making way more than he's making now once he gets there on the ground. I would ease into this. I don't think you have to go from where we are now to a 10-acre farm so I can do my horse business now.

I think you've created a false narrative. There's no way that the sorrow lies. Yeah. I'd ease into it. You buy 10 acres because you can afford it, and then you do horses. You don't buy 10 acres to do horses and make 25K. That's a bad business model. Okay. You don't make enough to justify the expense.

Correct. Yeah. So you need to lease that land or you buy the land because I want the land. Oh, and then I'll do some horses for fun. And then I can do 25K on horses. All right. But we're not staying in Minneapolis in this toxic situation with this sort of kind of family business debacle that he is not going to stay in because you need 10 acres.

That's just no sell it and go to South Dakota and let him get his handyman business going. You go rent a farm to do your horse business on. And then later on, when you guys make a bunch of money, buy you a farm and you can do your thing. And you know, it's a five-year plan to get to that. Okay. But you guys, you can't, what you've described in Minneapolis is not sustainable. You've, you gave us all reasons to leave and they were all good reasons. And then you took Cedar Rapids and made it unattainable.

Or Rapid City. I can't say it. I keep going the wrong states. The Rapids. Sorry, South Dakota. I actually do know where you are. That's right. Oh, my gosh. There's some people in the lobby from South Dakota. And Dave is geographically challenged. But, yeah.

I also don't understand why you need 10 acres. That seems like a lot for training horses. It depends on, I don't know. I mean, I'm not a horse trainer, but if you're going to graze them, I mean, you're going to pasture them and so forth, you might, but. Oh, I see. I was thinking the training part. I've never played one on TV, Dave. So I'm over my skis. Yeah, definitely. Me too. But, but I do, I'm not over my skis to say you don't spend $500,000 to do a $25,000 business. That's correct. That's an easy one. Yeah. That's a no.

We don't do that. Period. You know, if you want to buy a half million dollar house and can afford a half million dollar house that's on 10 acres, great. Do that. Oh, and then I want to do some horse stuff on there. Cool. That's fine. But we don't buy a $500,000 piece of property to do $25,000 a year on. That does not make sense. That's not, that's a no, that's a non-starter right there. So, all right, there we go. Move, Sarah, move.

Load up the truck and head to Beverly. That's what we're doing. Bring Uncle Jed and Granny and let's go. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Ah, family businesses that do succession poorly. They bring pain onto themselves. All they had to do was treat this guy right. And he and his brothers would have taken the thing over and it would have gone another generation. Instead, they're putzing around and they're going to lose their talent, which is in their family to be able to carry this thing generation. I was going to ask you, does it make sense with what little information you have that

that they would bring in an outsider for ownership when it was supposed to be a family thing. No, all this is somebody trying to get some money. One of the uncles wants some money. He's trying to get some cash, and none of the boys got any cash. He's trying to bring in an outsider with some pockets. That makes sense. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Daniel is in Los Angeles. Hi, Daniel. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hello, Dave. We have some home fears, home buying fears, actually. Okay. All right. So I want to start with our numbers. Me and my wife's combined income, which is all self-employed 1099, is $243,000. The house we want to get is a $477,000 place. So we can only qualify for bank statement loan. And that lender...

gave us an average of 12 months of deposits of $9,500 a month, which puts our house payment at 29% of our take-home, which is not Dave approved. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. How long have you had your 1099 business? Ten years. Ten years. Okay. Okay.

Well, you've got a dumb butt lender. You qualify for a standard mortgage. If you've got two years of tax returns proving this business value, you qualify for a standard mortgage. You don't need to get ripped off on a mortgage. Okay. So call Churchill Mortgage and talk to those guys. They'll help you get it done. Because he's hammering you on the rate, isn't he? Yeah, it's between 6.9 and 7.7. Yeah. Why is it between? Because if I down payment more, it'll come down. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, you need a new mortgage lender. Got it. Great. Good news. The last little bit here is every other, I've done about 10 trying to get qualified for a loan, 10 times, and only forgotten the bank statement loans once or twice. Because the FHAs and the conventionals or whatnot, I can't seem to qualify for ever. Why? Is your credit bad? No, we have great credit.

Uh, we just have a lot of write-offs and lifestyle. Okay. So you have a taxable income on your tax return of 250,000 or not? No, no, not, not a personal, uh, income of 250,000. What you told me you make? Yes. Combined business income. Gross revs or net profit? Gross. Oh, well, crap. You could be losing money then. What is your net profit? What's your taxable income?

Our personal taxable income? Yes, sir. That's all you got. Your business is personal. You're filing a Schedule C, aren't you? Or you got it in an LLC? We have S-Corps and General Partnerships. Okay. And all of that flows through directly to your tax return. When you pay taxes, all of your businesses, the net profits land on your personal tax return. What is your income, sir, that you pay taxes on? It's about $25,000.

$25,000 a year? Yeah. Then you're not making any money. You're starving to death. In business, there are only one kind of write-off. You can only write off actual cash expenditures, which creates net profit, and you can depreciate items.

And the depreciation has something to do with reality called loss of value in the item. So if you buy a $10,000 item and it's worth spit two years from now, you can depreciate that item because it's depreciated. But you lost the money. That's why you can depreciate it.

I buy a computer. I can write off the computer and depreciate it either one year or three year, depending on where it falls in the tax code. But I lost the money still. It's still a loss. So if you're really only making $25,000, I don't know how the heck you can afford a house in Los Angeles. Yeah, correct. We're moving out of state to Las Vegas instead. Well, you can't afford a house in Las Vegas making $25,000. Yeah, absolutely correct.

I have no idea what I'm doing. All right, open phones at 888-825-5225. Jonathan is in Columbus, Ohio. Hey, Jonathan, how are you? Hey, I'm good. Thanks for taking my call today. How can I help? So I got myself in a financial pickle, so forgive me for that. But to my wife, she's an epileptic, excuse me, and she's no longer going to be able to work full time.

So she's going PR in at work. She's a nurse. So we're going to take about a $60,000 to $70,000 hit in our income. What do you make, John? I make roughly $36,000. I'm a commission-based salesman. And what does she make? She was making roughly $75,000 a year going part-time. How often is she having seizures?

So you get three years Caesar free, but the auras are causing her not to be able to fully be a nurse. So it's very dangerous. Yes, I agree. So she's having to back off. Well, that's the bad news. The great news is she's a nurse. So she could do non-nursing, non-actual care, but use that knowledge base and make really good money. Maybe from home. Yeah. Yeah.

Ken, there's a lot of stuff she could do, isn't there? Yeah, I think there's a lot of pivoting there. She's got some transferable skills. Have you guys looked into that or is this just... I mean, I don't want her... For her sake, I don't want her on the floor going bed to bed to bed in a hospital. That would not be cool for her, much less the potential risk to a patient or something. So I completely agree with the fact you need to pivot, but I don't think it goes to zero.

No, it's not going to go to zero forever. We know that part. My concern is the next three to six months as we pivot or transition. Has she already quit? Yes, that already took place. Okay, cool. So now we've just got to figure out a different way to apply her skills, and it shouldn't take three to six months. It ought to take three to six days.

I am open to suggestions even on that. Okay. I'm trying to find online. Because the nature of your call is we're struggling financially because we just lost, dadgum, 60%, 70% of our income. Yes. And you're scared to death for your wife's health because that brings tears to your eyes. It brings tears to my eyes, too. You're a good man. Yes. You love your wife. You're a good guy. Yes, sir. So we'll help you with the, you know. But if we fix the income thing, don't we fix a whole lot of the other stuff?

Yeah, because then I can fully get on to that snowball and get ourselves out of the pickle that we're in. Have you sat down, the two of you, and looked at what her options are? It doesn't feel like you guys have sat down and talked about it. For instance, telenursing. Is that an option? I don't know, but that's where my brain goes.

So it is an option, and it is not an option that we have found readily available. I started applying for her ahead of time, knowing this was coming ahead, and we've not had a lot of success with that. And so her auras and her seizures were all stress-induced, and her neurologist even warned her she may have to give up nursing and go on disability.

We have fought for two and a half years now to avoid that because she would rather work than not work. All right, so let me throw another high-level idea out because I think you guys are a little bit panicked, and it's hard to think clearly when you're panicked.

But you've got to start looking at real options so it becomes less scary. The unknown is freaking you out. I would be looking at other caregiving jobs. I've coached a lot of nurses who have been burned out, and it is one of the top industries as it relates to burnout and transition right now in this country. It's a massive problem.

So I will tell you that one of the things I coach nurses on is caregiving. And when I've asked them, what is it, the core of nursing that you love, they always come back with, I just love caring for people. So I would start to look in the Columbus, Ohio, greater area and go, what are the jobs out there where it is about caring for people?

Okay. And then where are my limitations knowing what we know medically? I just think there's more options for her to step right into something right now. Because let me tell you something. There are holes everywhere in the world of caring for people. They need people. I would start there. Yeah. I think you work on the income side of this equation, Jonathan, and keep doing that. And I'll tell you what, I'm going to send you a copy of Ken's book, Paycheck to Purpose, and also Proximity Principle, two of them.

That'll help you get started. And I think you guys just need to start brainstorming tonight, clearly thinking about where she could apply these skills in a non-traditional way that's low stress environment. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Rebecca is in Louisiana, Shreveport to be exact. Hi, Rebecca, how are you? Better than I deserve, Dave and Ken. Thank you. How can we help?

Listen, I first have to say it is such an honor to talk with both of you. Since becoming an avid listener of your show just last year, our family has paid off about $50,000 since last September. Way to go, kiddo! I could cry saying that. But anyways, the reason for my call today is I am sort of at a crossroads in my career and wondering what you guys think my next right move should be.

Is it okay if I kind of give you an overview? Tell us about it. What's the crossroads?

Perfect. So a little bit of background. I'm recently 30. I'm married and we have four kids ranging in age from about 13 to 4. I was a teen mom. I graduated high school with one baby, went straight on to college and graduated on time with two babies. And in those hard life experiences, my purpose work, as Ken would probably put it, was born. And I began a career in faith-based nonprofit work about nine years ago. I made...

peanuts at first, but currently work in a leadership role at a nonprofit making $85,000 a year. Alongside this, I've also always maintained for the last eight, nine years, a self-employment side hustle type work, although it's really a ministry, it's a passion. I enjoy it. And that is in keynote speaking and fundraising for nonprofits, particularly ministries. And

in 2023 my side hustle brought in about a hundred thousand dollars in net income and this year for 2024 i am on track i just picked up another contract yesterday to net 140 000 in my side income great job it is but uh you know you can see my spouse employment income now supersedes my regular income and the way we've kind of always worked it is my

W-2 paycheck, along with my husband's, goes towards paying our bills. And then my speaking income, because it's grown so much, has just gone straight to the debt. And we've been able to slash it in the last year with a lot of force and with quick pace. But now...

Now, both jobs have grown. They've grown in responsibility and time. Both require nationwide travel, and I'm away from my kids and my husband, and I just feel like my mind, my body, my family is suffering. And this is kind of the crux of my question. Is it time that I quit my regular job and pursue just myself and my network? Yes. It is. Yes, 100%. I feel... I know what you feel, guilt. Okay.

I feel a ton of guilt. I know. I've talked to you so many times, but you have a different name and a different life. Yeah. I really understand this. Here's the deal, though. Okay?

Your love of the organization and the mission, and I would guess, just hearing what we've heard about you, that you carry a lot of responsibility to that organization. And you are worried that if you leave them, it might come crumbling down. If not that bad, it might really put them in a bad spot. Is that about right? Yes. Okay. That's exactly right. All right. And I understand that's because you're a really good person. But number one, the organization existed before you.

and I got a good feeling it'll exist after you. Would you agree with that statement? Absolutely. Okay. I am in no way accusing you of some messianic complex, superwoman complex, because I think you're a humble, hardworking person. However, if you're not careful, you will put too much stock in

in your value for them, and that turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy that if I leave them, I'm a bad person, as opposed to the mindset ought to be, I have served them very well and have done so much for them. Is that a true statement? That is a true statement, yes. How's your bench depth over there behind you? Yeah.

How's your bench depth behind you? No, I don't. I don't understand. It's a sports analogy. Do you have anybody behind you in leadership that's going to step into these shoes? That's the problem. I don't. So I'm not at the very top. There is a president over me, but I am at the executive level, and there is not somebody currently. I mean, they're going to have to bring in someone from the outside. Therein lies the guilt. Now, the question is, can you have any say? How many people on the team at this organization?

Probably about 45 total. Okay. Yeah, your leadership team needs to work on always having you be working on your replacement. All of our leaders here are always working on their replacements all the time because our leaders usually are going to have to step up into something new as we grow, and somebody's got to step up into the shoes that they were in, and so we were always working on our replacement, including me. How are you doing, Ken?

Yeah, thank you very much. I think I feel okay, but my throat's a little scratchy all of a sudden. Quick question here, practically speaking, Rebecca. Yeah. If the replacement that Dave is bringing up was ready to go today, how quickly would you move on?

Oh, today. Okay. All right. Because we have a little bit of money set aside and I've got enough. I mean, my self-employment work is- I know. Now that was- That pipeline's plentiful. Yeah. I backed you into a corner there on purpose because I wanted you to get emotionally to the place where you're going to have to now get to mentally. So mentally, you're going to have to say, what can I do in the days ahead to

to help prepare a person who's on staff or help my leadership team go find somebody that can step in. You do not owe them any more than that.

Now, you owe that to them to leave well. And to me, that's the definition of leaving well, to say to them, hey, I'm moving on soon. Because you have nothing to worry about. They're not going to fire you when you tell them. But you owe it to them, if you haven't already, to tell them, hey, listen, my time here is coming to an end. But I want to leave well.

And I have determined... How can I help you fill these shoes? Yeah, I don't think we have somebody here. Do you all think we have somebody here? Or if you think they've got somebody, then you need to identify that person to them and see if they agree. And then we begin to create a transition plan. But that needs to happen tomorrow.

That conversation needs to happen tomorrow. And it can be gradual if you start sooner rather than later. It doesn't have to be two weeks notice. You can say, okay, my goal is September. That should give us plenty of time to get someone in here and me to walk with them for a few weeks and get them, get them acclimated or whatever your goal is. I don't care. And go guys, if the leadership team wants me to give a two week notice, I can do that. But I'm available to help this be gradual and smooth.

Okay, that aligns with what I was thinking. I was thinking September. Can I ask kind of a clarifying question just to, I want to make sure you guys have the details. Real quick, we got about a minute. Make it quick. We still have some debt. We are down to just our student loan debt, and I think that is where my guilt is coming from because I think, part of me thinks if I stick this out and grind, although my body is suffering, my kids are suffering, we could be done in probably nine to 12 months, or I could budget better. Can you make it for 12 months? Are you going to be okay?

No, but if you told me to, I probably would. Well, I mean, you probably can. You're probably not going to die from it, but I don't care. I mean, you're just making a value decision. In order to get some of my sanity back, I'm going to be in debt a little bit longer. That's what you're saying. That's okay. You can decide that. I'm not going to shame you for that. But if you want to suck it up and plow on through, there's no problem. That's not a negative thing. I could do a lot of stuff for nine months, you know?

I really can, but it's up to you. You know, you don't have to. You're doing great. You're amazing. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. If you're selling a house in this weird real estate market, if you're buying a house in this weird real estate market, you really need a pro in your corner. You really need someone in your corner that has a clue. And I'm not talking about Uncle Henry who got his license three weeks ago.

I'm talking about somebody who sells 50, 100, 200 houses a year. Somebody who's a high-octane, high-protein, get-or-done real estate agent. That's what you're looking for. We don't want the... Hey, we put together a network of agents. I grew up in the real estate business, and so I know what a winning real estate agent looks like and...

We've got the Ramsey Trusted Program of Endorsed Local Providers. These are endorsed people that we endorse. They're local, and they provide you help with your real estate, and they're high-octane, high-protein people. They're Ramsey Trusted. If you want to know who the Ramsey Trusted agent is in your area to buy a house from, and now's a great time to buy, sell a house, it's a really great time to sell. You can find the Ramsey Trusted agent for free at ramsesolutions.com slash agent.

Up next is going to be Kaisa. Hi, Kaisa in Spokane. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

So I have an annuity with a previous employer. I don't know anything about annuities. I've tried to do some research on them. I feel like I was left with more questions than answers though when I did that. The gist of it is that I have a $45,000 annuity with them and $50,000 worth of debt. If I did pull the annuity, then it would wipe out six of my seven debts and I know it wouldn't be

The total amount, I would obviously owe some taxes on it, but it would wipe out six of my seven debts and speed up the journey. And I don't want to make an irrational or irresponsible decision with this, but I can't find any answers on annuities. And so I just wanted to call and get some advice and guidance on whether or not I should touch this or leave it alone. Well, there's three different ways you could get tagged or could get banged up doing this. One is if it's in a retirement plan.

Do you know if it's inside like a 401K or a 403B or anything like that? To my knowledge, no. Where were you working? What were you doing? Construction, Boston. It's a union. Okay. All right. So you don't think it's in a retirement plan? Because if you take stuff out of a retirement plan early, you know you get a 10% penalty plus taxes, right? They told me that I'm going to have the...

10% penalty in taxes regardless? Then it is in a retirement plan. There is no 10% penalty on annuities. Okay. You can cash it. If I buy an annuity and cash it out early, I don't have any taxes except on the gain inside the annuity. Okay? Gotcha. And I don't have, there is no penalty. Now, the third thing is the penalty, and that's an annuity thing, and it's called the surrender penalty.

the surrender charges. Okay. And so they're going to have dates that after certain dates, you get hit a certain amount. Do you know how old this thing is? Um, it would be about 10 years old now. Okay. You might not have any surrender charges. You, the problem is, is there's about, there's,

Three different variables here, and without knowing the actual details of the contract, I can't help you. That's the problem you're running into on the Internet, too. So here's what you need to do. Go to RamseySolutions.com and click on SmartVestor Pro. That's the mutual fund brokers that we endorse in your area. You need to probably have one of those in your corner anyway for future investing. You can send them the information you have over on this thing, and they can tell you how bad the ding is.

Okay. If you're going to lose like 50% of your money in penalties or surrender charges or taxes, no, we don't want to cash it out. We're not borrowing money at 50% interest to pay off debt. Agreed. Right. But if you're going to lose five or 10% and you can free this money up and get it away from this union that you don't have anything to do with anymore. Sure. Let's get it out of there. So it's a value judgment that way. How much of a ding on the money?

Because, I mean, if you got $50,000 in there and they take $25,000 of it, then this starts to not be fun. They told me it was going to be about 15%. So I don't know. Like I said, I'm not getting necessarily the most clear answers from them either. Yeah, that's what's bothering me. I'm not sure who you're talking to even knows what they're talking about. So I'm thinking there's probably no surrender charges. Most of those are gone by seven years.

in almost every annuity. It would be a very unusual annuity, but unions do some weird stuff sometimes. But probably not going to surrender charge. If it's in a retirement plan, you're going to get taxes and a 10% penalty, and I'm going to tell you not to cash it out. If it only has a tax penalty, if you're only paying taxes on the growth, that would be probably 15%. Then I probably would cash it out.

Okay. So if you get to the bottom of this and it really is only 15% and you feel like that's solid information from maybe someone like a SmartVestor Pro helping you look at it, then yeah, I'd probably use it. I'd probably take that money and use it because it's not in a retirement account. You've just got a little bit of taxes on it. It'd be like if you owned a mutual fund and you had a little bit of taxes, but it wasn't in a retirement account. I would tell you to cash that out and pay debt. And this is the same category, only this is just infinitely complicated.

So, because there's these stinking annuities or there's so many different, they're not, it's not a generic product. There's so many versions that you could stumble into or could be designed specifically for this union or whatever. I mean, there's no, they're not breaking any laws or doing anything wrong to have a unique contract there. So that's the problem. Philadelphia's next. Ed's on the line. Hi, Ed. What's up? Hi, Dave. How are you?

Better than I deserve. How can I help? Great. Hey, so to keep it brief, a few years ago, I bought a duplex. I did the old, you know, live in one half, rent out the other half thing. Hasn't gone as well as I would like it to go, but it's in a place where it's stable. Oh, well, within a year of, say it again? Tenant problem?

Yeah, the tenant actually died in a car accident and destroyed the unit within a year of purchasing the property. So that's kind of what went wrong. I'm sorry. Not in that order. They destroyed it and then died in a car accident. Correct. Okay. That's a yes, that order. All right. I'm trying to make sure I know how this hidden drive the car into the unit. Okay. No, no, no, no. God almighty. Oh, man. And you're living next door and you didn't know he was trashing your unit?

I mean, I kind of knew, but what are you going to do at that point? Stop him. The first day I hear a hole in the wall, the first day you're gone, buddy. That's what you do. He was paying. I don't care if he's paying. He's tearing it up. I don't care if you're paying. You've got a cat. You've got to move. We don't have cats. Wow. It's a $10,000 cat.

Tearing my dad's dumb house up. It was kind of a, looking back, bad idea. Okay, so now here we are. Have you fixed the unit back up now? Oh, yes. And now you've got a new tenant in it? Yeah. That's living and not tearing it up. Okay, good. Correct. It's an improvement. Okay. The question here is,

In the meantime, I got married, had a baby. The place isn't that big. My wife wants to move. I'd like to stay here a few more years to continue saving money since the property's finally stable. I just wanted to see what your guys' take was on the timing discrepancy we have here. Sell it. Leave. Yeah, I agree. You have a wife and a baby. She doesn't want to live there. You think tenants will make you miserable? Woo!

A wife with a baby can make you more miserable. All right. So if she don't want to live there, that ain't good, man. No, you got to go. Well, you're a young dad, aren't you? He's still not quite convinced. Take it from the two old married guys. Happy wife, happy life, my friend. Yeah, this is not, this is no longer about investments. This is about peace of mind. Yeah. I mean, it worked cool when you were a bachelor, but now you got family, dude, you're out, you're out of the duplex business. Seriously. Um,

So you don't think maybe hanging on to it? No, I don't. No, I wouldn't hang on to it 20 seconds. I mean, there's nothing in this conversation about this duplex that's been fun so far. No. You know, tenant tore it up and then died in a car accident. And now your wife wants to move. I think this is a sign from God. A lot of signs. This is the Ramsey Show.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. His Get Clear assessment has helped almost 100,000 folks. People have bought it off of RamseySolutions.com. And so we did the new book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

which includes a Get Clear Assessment. You get a code for a Get Clear Assessment inside the book, and the book is all about showing you how to properly read and go through the assessment. It tells you how it works, right, Ken? That's correct. It absolutely walks you through your actual results. So in other words, you get the assessment results,

And then this book coaches you through it. It's a nice report. It prints out a great report. It's a great report. You're going to get detailed on what you're really good at, what you really enjoy doing. We're talking about work. And then what results motivate you? That's your detailed report. And then this book is kind of like a coaching session to help you ideate your

where you can go in the world of work or confirm, hey, you know what? I am doing the right thing. Maybe I'm in the wrong environment. And so it's a wonderful clarity guide is really what it gives you. Self-awareness so that you have a lot of confidence going forward. Love it. So find the work you're wired to do. It includes the Get Clear Career Assessment when you buy the book.

It is a national bestseller, and you can get it at RamseySolutions.com slash store. All our stuff's in the store, boys and girls. Alex is with us. Alex is in Indianapolis. Hi, Alex. How are you?

Better than I deserve, Dave. How about yourself? Just the same, sir. How can I help? So I'm currently an undergraduate student, graduating actually in finance next semester in December. Good for you. My hope is to go to law school after this, but I'm currently very, very fortunate to be debt-free coming out of undergrad, and I don't want to go into debt

at all. Been reading some of your stuff kind of recently and kind of sold me on it a little bit. So I was wondering what would be some ways that you might recommend not going into debt when you know you have like a massive law school debt

debt coming up. I'm going to jump in here because I've coached a lot of people on this. I interviewed a legal expert out of Houston, Texas years ago who did this himself and he figured out how to go to law school for free and you can search this. There's tons of resources on this, but here's the short

process of how you do it. Number one, it's about your LSAT. The higher the LSAT, the greater the chance you have for a full ride scholarship. So you can take, you know this, the LSAT as many times as you want. There's a cash value on that. And so study, study, study and get a really high LSAT score.

Second, early application. The earlier you can apply to these law schools, the greater the chance you have for, again, a full ride because these law schools have quotas that they're trying to get, and they want people who are ready to decide early. The third thing is...

how impressive your total application is. So this is really do the homework on what they're looking for, strong recommendations, people like U.S. senators, congressmen, governors, really well-known business people. That's your total application process. And then the last piece is to go for the non-name-brand law schools.

Your name brand law schools, I'll just pick a school right here in the shadows of our organization's headquarters. Vandy Law is not going to give full rides to people because everybody wants to get into these name brand schools. You can pick a name brand, your big state school. People are clamoring to get in there, so they're not looking for students. But there are a lot of smaller schools all around the country.

No one's clamoring to come to their place. In other words, supply demand is the principle here. And where there's low demand, they are looking for supply and they are wanting to get people graduating from their law school. So all that said, if you're willing to go to a non-name brand law school outside of those other three things I gave you, there is a very good chance that you can get a full ride, if not most of it covered. What kind of law are you wanting to practice when you're out?

Specifically intellectual property, kind of with startup law, like that kind of in between those two. Yeah, good. Contract law and IP law. Yeah, good. By the way, I want to add to that, no one cares. Your future clients will not care. I'm your future client because I've got people that do that. I've got trademark guys on retainer. We've got IP people on retainer. I've got a lead counsel that works here full-time. I've got two guys that work for him, two lawyers that work for him full-time. We've got three on staff.

um i've got a state planning attorney i've got a tax attorney i've got um and i don't know where one of them graduated i don't have any idea okay all i care is can they do the work that's right and do they have the expertise and now if if if they're a doofus i'll start to worry about them okay but i mean and there are lawyers that are doofuses there's plenty of them but um actually i do know where my lead counsel graduated

I just lied. I do know where he graduated from, but that's just an anomaly because in the interview process I was making fun of him. But that was giving him a hard time about his team. Right. But it had nothing to do with the law school. But anyway. But you're hiring these attorneys based on the credibility of their firms. Yeah. Like I talked to one of my friends who had some trademark issues, and I'm like, who are you using?

And 17 people have called me since then and said, who do you use? And I've referred them. And I never said, and he's a graduate of, because I don't even know. Nor does Dave know their GPA in law school. I have no idea. Nobody cares. I don't know how much debt they've got from law school. I don't know any. I didn't do an interview like that. I just said, do you know how to do this? And prove to me you know how to do this. Oh, I've got litigators on retainer, too. Come to think of it. Two of them, three of them right now. Yeah.

And so and I do not know where any of them went to law school. So that's your customer. So Ken's right. Where you go to law school doesn't matter to anybody but you.

That's it. Your mama might want to brag about it to her quilting friends. But other than that, nobody gives a rip. I'm just saying. So my son went to Harvard. Now that and five dollars will get you a cup of coffee. I mean, it's just honestly, it does not mean squat unless you're if you're going to run for president. It might turn up. Yeah. If you were, you know, if you were the editor of the

Harvard review in while you were in law school, it might show up if you're running for president. But other than that, it's not going to come up. Yeah. And I want to address a objection to our audience because some people I could hear it. I've heard this a million times. Well, you go to some no name law school. They don't have connections with big firms. That's why that's a bunch of garbage. And here's the other deal.

Yeah, it's absolute garbage. That's just cool. But here's the other thing. If you go to the Ivy League or your name brand school, understand that you are in competition with a bunch of people all working the same connections. So it is not this advantage that you've been told that it is. It's a disadvantage.

Because you're in this pool with the wrong, you're swimming in the wrong fishbowl. That's exactly the issue. You need to get in a different fishbowl than that bunch anyway. Because here's the thing. I mean, if you want to work for a law firm in New York City and you want to work 90 hours a week for five years to hopefully get to make partner, you know, yeah, you might want to go to a name brand. If that's your goal. But I wouldn't sign anybody up for that hell personally.

You make a lot more money doing something else with a law degree and have a lot better quality of life. So anyway, that's our thing. We're sticking to it. That's true of all your degrees out there, people. Where you go to school. You know, I had a friend that was just come through a cancer treatment. She has no idea where her oncologist went to college.

That's a great point. Doesn't have any idea. Didn't look it up. Just said, can you help me with my cancer? That's all she cared about, right? That's right. That's the deal. I mean, Daniel's wife's getting ready to have our eighth grandchild. I have no idea where the obstetrician went to college. Right. None. And he's bringing a Ramsey into the world. By God, he better know what he's doing. So...

You're telling me you aren't the father of the ride Steve Martin grandfather running around the hospital nervous? I'm definitely that guy. I'm definitely that guy. No, I'm serious. I mean, this thing of where you go to school is the biggest lie that has been told to people, second only to if you go to college, automatically you're going to be successful. That's right. I got a degree in left-handed puppetry.

Well, your degree's freaking useless. What were you thinking? Well, I learned how to think, Dave. Mine's in German polka history. You're a barista is what you are. This is the Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Habakkuk 2.3. Patience is not the same as indifference. Patience conveys the idea of someone who is tremendously strong and able to withstand all assaults. Whoa.

Albert Einstein said, it's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer. Ooh. There we go. Sharon is with us. Sharon is in Detroit, Michigan. Hi, Sharon. How are you? Hi, I'm great. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay. I, well, first of all, I'm Canadian. I'm near Detroit, but in Canada. Okay. And I'm

I'm going to need to buy a car. Currently, my car is 10 years old. I think it's going to last another five to 10 years. I'm 66, so hopefully I'll retire sometime in those five to 10 years. My financial planner says, oh, get a loan.

And I'm like not comfortable with that. Yeah. New financial plan. I don't want to make, yeah, I'm not happy there. I don't like making a car payment. I haven't had one, obviously, for a lot of years because I have an older car. So I'm just wondering. What size is your nest egg? Pardon? How big is your, how much money do you have? I thought I had more than I have, but about $150,000.

$2,400 of that I have for designated spending, but the rest of it is investments. You said how much is designated spending? What are you talking about? About $2,400. So we'll say I've got $150,000 invested. I see. Yeah. Okay. And you are still working or did you say you retired?

I'm still working. I work full-time. I have a primary job, which my income gross is about $50,000 a year. And I also have a part-time job. And this year, I'll be working a little more, so it'll be somewhere between $9,000 and $10,000 gross. Okay. All right. And so we got $60,000 a year, and you have... Yep. So what were you thinking of spending on a car?

Well, right now I have a 2014 Toyota Camry and I kind of figured it out in miles. I got about 88,000 miles on it and I would like to stay with a Toyota, probably a Prius because we're all supposed to be going electric. I can't.

I can't have a plug-in, so I'm looking at a hybrid. So they run around between $40 and $50 here in Canada. Okay.

So what I want to do, like, I don't want a car payment, but I'm okay with designated spending. So that to me is just putting the money away now to spend later. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to do that, whether to put it in. So in Canada, like the States, we have to pick up a $20,000, sell your car for what you can get in a total of about $20,000, $25,000 Camry.

I'd give up on the Prius and just go to another Camry and move up in car and write a check and not think about it again. Like right now? Yeah, you got the money. Is that money in a retirement account? Yes, it's my retirement. Is it in an RSI or is it just designated by you as retirement? No, so I have someone in a TFSA, which if I pull it out, that's after tax dollars. Yeah, you don't want to leave that one alone, right?

The other one, the RRSP, if I pull money out, there are tax implications. So all of it's in some kind of a retirement account? That's correct. Oh, okay. Just one is there's no tax implications if I use it. The other one there is. So your plan is just save up the money then? Correct. Okay. So you want to save up like $20,000. What's your car going to bring?

Right now, about $14,000. Yeah, okay. So you save up $20,000 and your car brings $10,000 by then, and you buy a $30,000 Camry. I'm in. Okay. So my question, though, is to save that, like I can save that, but how should I invest it so that it's making money while I'm saving it? Oh, you don't have to worry about it. You're not going to be saving it that long. It's not going to take you that long. How long is it going to take? A year? Two years?

to save that yeah well i'll still be putting money into my um my retirement yeah so how long is it going to take you to save 20 000 bucks making 60 making 60 two years okay yeah the interest didn't go back to anything this i mean put it in a high you put in a high yield savings account don't worry about it it's not there's not a big investment that's going to suddenly make you ten thousand dollars on on 20.

Not that's safe. Not that I would put you in or that I would be in. If it was me doing this, I would just throw it in a high-yield savings account and call it a day. Okay. And just keep... And I really would get a different financial advisor. Any financial advisor that tells a 66-year-old woman to go get a car loan should be disbarred from ever giving advice again.

I'm not happy with this company and I don't know what to do. Well, get somebody that's got the heart of a teacher. Jump on. I mean, we don't have the SmartVestor Pros in Canada, per se. We do have them in Detroit that probably know Canada, though, if you're close enough to Detroit. So you can check that way. But you're looking for someone that has the heart of a teacher and has some dadgum common sense.

But anybody that tells a 66-year-old woman getting ready to head towards retirement to go get a car loan, that's just, you're done. That's just dumber than a rock. No. So you deserve to be fired. Yeah. You're fired. They're just mailing it in. Oh, for real. I mean, that's not even, that's not mailing it in. It's just malpractice. Jan's in Atlanta. Hi, Jan. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay. So currently we are debt free, my husband and I, we are renovating an investment property that's paid for. But our goal is to be able to rent this out when we're done Airbnb kind of style or something of that nature. And then we would like to build a home back in our community. That's about an hour and 15 minutes away from here, our church and friends and all that stuff. But we,

We know that it took us a long time to get out of debt. We can get back into that very quickly. And so we're looking for the best way to get back to where we want to be. And if that is, hey, you can buy some land, build a house, and then pay that off like we just paid off a house, then we can do that. But I wanted to get some advice on the best way to do that so we can stay debt-free. Okay. So the current home that you live in,

you would sell and move closer to the community you want to be in? Well, we are living in our camper, renovating this investment property that we own. Oh, and what's going to happen to the investment property? You want to try to keep it? We would. Why don't you just sell it and use that money to buy you a house? Well, we can, and we're not opposed to that. We were looking at long-term. I am too. Having a paid-for house is a great long-term move.

Okay. And then with a paid for house, take your income and start stacking cash and get you another investment property if you want to buy some real estate. But I would not own an investment piece of real estate and then take out a mortgage on a new home. That's the same thing as borrowing on a paid for home to go buy investments. And I would never do that either. It's the same thing though. Okay. That makes sense? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yeah. So I'd sell the investment property and build you a house or buy you a house. One of the two in the community. Okay.

that you want to go to. And Jan, anybody that's willing to live in a camper to hit their goals is able to get just almost anything done. That is true. That is true. That's serious sacrifice right there. If I told Sharon Ramsey we were moving into a camper. I would like to be there to video that. So I could have an investment property.

That would, the camper would have its tires slashed. It's true. By a hillbilly woman. Mysteriously. It would happen. There would be no evidence. I promise you that. No bloodshed. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. ♪

Okay.

And we also talk about something else I'm passionate about Disney adults. George, why is it a thing? Listen, some adults still find the magic. Sure. We,

We also talk about toxic money traits and girl math. And if you don't know what those are, you have to listen to the podcast. Yeah, there's a lot there, you guys. It's pretty fun. We keep you relevant is what I'm trying to say. We help you out. So pull up a chair to the happy hour you wish your friends were having. We promise you won't regret it. And if you don't have friends, we'll be your friends. We will. We're great friends. So make sure to check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app.