Don’t Let Toxic Family and Friends Pull You Down
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book Breaking Free from Broke, host of The George Camel Show, massive YouTube property, and all-around network star here at the Ramsey Network. She's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Steve starts off this hour in Atlantic City. I'll get it out. Hey, Steve, what's up?

Hey, thanks for taking my call. Thanks, George. I want to thank you guys for what you're doing, first of all, because not many people are financially smart, I guess you would say. And so what you guys are doing is awesome. Well, thank you, sir. I'm 41, and I'm really not planning to work until 60-some years old to retire.

And so I have retirement and I have investments that aren't retirement. And so I'm investing heavy right now.

And I feel like it's so overinflated at the moment. And being that I'm not completely out, I have significant money in right now. Would it be wise to just collect 5% in the money market and wait for a correction? I know you're more of a slow and steady, just keep putting it in every week, but it just seems a little crazy right now. Yeah. Well, yeah.

generally speaking the reason it seems a little crazy is it's the first time you have stood on top of that mountain if you'd stood on top of that mountain several different times it wouldn't feel as crazy and so it's an emotion that says i've never been here before and um

And human nature, I think there's something about, you know, there's a black side of human nature, a dark side of human nature that says, oh, it can't stay good. Nothing can stay good. It's like if everything's good, I have to look over my shoulder. Something must be wrong. And that's human nature, but that's an emotion, Steve. There's no data that says we're due for a correction. If you had called me five years ago and I said, oh, yeah, yeah, we're getting ready to have a correction.

You would have missed out on a 90% rate of return. In the last five years in the S&P 500, your money has doubled in the last five years. And so why do we not think it's going to do that in the next five? Well, I mean, it goes up, it goes down. You know, in 22, the market was down overall. In 23, it was up 27%. It's up 18% already this year.

But that doesn't mean that it has to correct because there's actual income and assets backing the companies that create the stock price. You don't price Home Depot stock...

based on a wish, a dream, and a prayer. Home Depot actually makes money, and they own stuff. You don't price Apple stock based on a wish and a prayer. They actually make stuff and make a profit, and you can use those numbers to determine the value of the company and therefore the value of the stock, and that's where this is coming from. It's coming from the prosperity of these companies, George.

And what's amazing, Steve, if you actually look at the data, if you go look at right now, the S&P 500 returns, you know, the last major dip was COVID. And guess what? March 2020 was the dip. It came back in July, back to record highs. And so you got to just, you know, the old saying, it's true.

It's not about timing the market. It's about time in the market. And the best investors out there are the average ones who just let it ride. Yeah, so please don't try to time the market is the moral of this story, and that's what you were asking about. And, you know, it's one of the reasons I tell folks to be in with a SmartVestor Pro.

Because all the data tells us that someone who has a good broker in their corner, not somebody who's a shyster, but somebody who's calm and data-based, and they'll teach you, talk you off the ledge, you know, talk Steve off the ledge.

uh they tend to keep you in the market they tend to say don't get out don't get out don't get out they don't call you up and go i'll be scared no you don't get out don't get out don't get out set it and forget it set it and forget it time in the markets more than timing of the market that's a great phrase i love that phrase and and that so all the data says for that reason if no other reason

A good broker in your corner, a good smart investor pro in your corner makes you money because they keep you from the, as Churchill talked about his depression, he called it the black dog, right? The black dog inside of every one of us is telling you,

you know, get out of the market. It's going to crash. Get out of the market. It's going to correct. And there's nothing that indicates that. Well, what causes a lot of that is the inputs you have in your life. And I'm guessing, you know, Steve's watching some headlines and it's going, we've hit record highs, but what's around the corner? What's going to happen with this election this year? And what about the Fed and the interest rates? It's all got to come crashing down eventually. There's clickbait every day since the internet was invented. Every day there's clickbait that says, economists predicting the end of the world.

You know, quickly read my article. Those guys are my favorite because whenever they're wrong, they go, oh, we missed a calculation. We're off by a few years. We'll be back. I go, okay, so I guess it wasn't the end of the world. Yeah.

We're all still here. So, Steve, please, I got to tell you, what's George doing? George is going to stay. He's not looking for a correction. What's Dave doing? We're going to continue to invest. We're not looking for a correction. If someone handed me a million dollars today, I would, an extra million, that'd be cool. I'll take it. I would put it in the stock market in good mutual funds or I'd buy a piece of real estate with it because I'm bullish on both. I think that America...

The best is yet to come, baby. The best is yet to come. We're not done. It didn't peak out. We missed the top. No, you didn't miss the top. Because if you go back and look 30 years since I've been doing this, I mean, 2008, the Dow went to 6,800. It's almost 40,000.

I mean, golly, what would your money be worth? Oh, please, please, please don't time the market for this. I had people in my own family, they took out money when they got spooked because someone told them, hey, now's the time, take the money out, there's about to be a correction. And then the money sat in a settlement account making 0%, and then the market came back, as it always does. Like a roaring. And they lost out on all of that growth. Yeah.

And it's heartbreaking to see. And we get calls like that where they say, Dave, I haven't invested or I pulled my money out. Now what do I do? I'm broke because I didn't stay on the roller coaster. And that was the last time we saw a major correction in the market was 2008. And the Dow took a dive. It took a dive off a cliff down to from, I think it was about 14 and it went down to 68. It went basically in half. Your value, what you had in your mutual fund, if you had a million dollars, it turned into $500,000.

And that scared the crap out of people. And you know what I did? I scraped every dollar I could and bought more. It's on sale, half off. That's right. You're at Kmart and the blue light's on. Any of you old people know what that means, right? Blue light special. You don't even know what Kmart is, much less what the blue light is. But when I was a little kid, a little redneck kid, we would go to Kmart and they had these little roller things, little square cabinet with a pole and a

blue light on top and they would roll it over next to an item and put that item on a flash sale and turn the blue light on that's pretty impressive technology for that blue light technology had a little extension cord followed it around so and so you thought the police had set up shop right there in that corner of the kmart but um but all the redneck women run over there and got their deals i'm telling you so it's a special it's a deal

It's a special. It's a bargain. That's what that means. If it's doing well, be thankful. And if it's not doing well, it's on sale. Be super thankful. There we go. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, good folks, it's Deloney. And with back-to-school madness on deck, my family's schedule is already so packed. And we haven't even made room for things like exercise and date nights and counseling and all the other things that make our life even worth living.

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Be sure to put your oxygen mask on first and never skip therapy day. Call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Diloni today for 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Diloni. Hey, jump over there and get that book. I want to put it on. Oh, yeah, absolutely. So we just laid a book down as we're walking back in from inside, so I'm sending George to pick it up. So an old friend of ours, Davey Blackburn, just dropped in yesterday,

Davey, many of you will remember the story. It was about six or seven years ago, I think. He was a youth pastor, and his wife was murdered in their home in Indiana. And so the story is horrible and heart-wrenching and amazing. I endorsed the new book called Nothing is Wasted, and it's the whole story of what happened in the whole process. So Davey,

And the book, he just got a book done, and the book has come out. So we want to tell you guys about it. Nothing is Wasted, and he's got the Nothing is Wasted Ministries, and it's even the murder...

of his wife. Nothing is wasted. Wow. Crazy. There were a lot of redemption and healing and forgiveness and hope and all kinds of great things. Yeah. So, um, Amanda and their unborn daughter, I profile case slowly meandered its way through the toward legal justice. David embarked on the wrenching task of finding the strength to restore a shattered soul and broken pieces in his life. Yeah. That's the writeup on the book. So nothing is wasted. Um,

I'll tell you guys about it. He's a great man, and it's a horrible, tragic story, but a beautiful, beautiful result out of a horrible situation. And so a picture of Amanda on the front of it. So, wow, good stuff. Nothing is wasted. You guys be sure. I think it's apparently on the street right now. It just came out. So be sure and check that out. I'll definitely give that a read. I know the whole story, and I know Davey, and he's spoken here for our team. And, you know, we were...

behind the scenes helping him with all the stuff when all the things were going on. And wow, what a deal. Looks like it's on pre-order right now. Oh, it's on pre-order. Publication date, pub date, July 30th. So coming out the end of the month, you can pre-order it now. Okay. Thank you, George. Always here to help. Well, I mean, you get the book off the chair, you find out the publishing information, the whole best. So we make this up as we go around here.

All right. And George catches all my slack, which apparently there's a lot of it. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Adam is with us in Chicago. Hey, Adam, what's up? Hi, Dave. How are you doing today? Better than I deserve. How are you?

Doing quite well. So I've got a bit of a question for you. I'm currently baby step two. I've already made quite a bit of progress, but my girlfriend and I are looking to get hopefully married in the next couple of years. And I'm just looking for some guidance on what's the proper way to go about doing that while we're still actively kind of in the midst of debt. There's not a, we do not tell people to wait to be out of debt to get married.

As a matter of fact, we tell them go and get married. If you're going to get married, get married. Period. That's simple. We do tell you not to spend $70,000 on a wedding when you've got $60,000 in debt. You know, I would tell you that, right? But the getting married part, getting married does not hold you back for getting out of debt. Now, what I will tell you, and you probably have already basically...

based on the way you formed your sentences and the way you brought this to the table, you're probably already doing this. But I will tell you that you don't want to get married to someone who doesn't share your hatred of debt. Right. Because that's going to be a long life, long, miserable life. Yeah. So but so but if you're both saying, hey, this sucks, we're going to lean in because they'll intense and get out of it.

You know, but we're going to wait till we're out of debt to get married. I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't. I'd go and get I'd go and get married. And, you know, George, that's that's consistent with what we teach. Well, what's how much debt are we talking here? Because you said a few years to where it tells me, are you waiting a few years because of the financial situation or are you saying that's a natural sort of progression of this relationship?

Mostly because of the financial situation. So currently, I'll just lay out our debts because it's pretty simple. It's just I've got about $11,000 left on a car loan. That's my last thing to pay off. And then she's got about $50,000 in student loans. Okay. And what is her income?

Her income, unfortunately, she just lost her job, but she was at about $50,000 a year. Okay, so probably get something around that range again. And what do you make? This year I'm making $47,000, but I'm up in line for promotion next year, so hopefully a bump up from there. Okay, so you're going to be in the $100,000, $110,000 range, I'm guessing, if you were married. And how old are you two? We are 27. Okay. Is there any reason not to go ahead and get married?

Uh, no other than just saving up to make sure we pay for it in cash. Sure. Sure. Okay. How long have you been dating? I've been dating about eight years now.

Okay, time to paint or get off the ladder, dude. It is high time, my friend. Seriously. You got to get engaged first. Yeah. But let's not make this another five-year engagement after that. And then one day... I mean, I got my patience with this personally. I mean, I'm just speaking for Dave because, you know, just... I think Sharon would have been long gone if Dave waited eight years. Yeah, she'd be going...

What's that country song, Get Me to the Church or something? I don't know. But anyway, that little big town had a song. But yeah, that's it. Whatever. Paint the church white. Whatever the thing is. Yeah. No! Get married. Get married as fast as you can. The best case scenario is you naturally both become debt-free before the wedding. Worst case, you get together and you make a hundred-something thousand and you knock out the debt quickly. That's a worst-case scenario. Yeah. If you've had a lengthy marriage,

time to get to know each other and you're you're ready and you're 27 you're not 20 you're not 18 and 17 you know you're not that so um did have that call at this point you know if i want to spend my life with this person because you've already spent a good chunk of your life with this person at eight years yeah so yes i would get married as soon as possible

and reasonable, and I would not wait on clearing debt to do that, as long as you're both aligned on how we're going to handle money. And it sounds like you are. So good question. Thank you, Adam. Appreciate you calling in. Mitchell is in Edmonton, Alberta. Hey, Mitchell, what's up with you? Hey, guys, not too much. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help?

Yeah. So Dave, George, I'm just trying to navigate the baby steps a little bit here. Uh, right now we're just working on paying off our mortgage, which obviously like everyone, we hate monthly payments, mortgage included. So we kind of just want that gone. Uh, the deal is myself and my wife, we both work full time debt free other than the mortgage, uh, with about 400 K remaining on that. Um,

where it gets a little bit different. On top of our jobs, we also started, this was four years ago, we started an event rental business. So we ran that throughout the summers. At this point, though, it's just kind of gotten to be a little bit too much for us to manage, especially now we've got a two-year-old. So really just want some more time to do family stuff. So we decided to sell the business. We have a sale lined up actually. And after the sale, we figure we should have about $300,000

thousand in cash and liquid investments that we can put towards the mortgage yay just wondering hey there we go yeah just just kind of wondering if the best thing to do is just to put that lump sum straight towards that yes maybe leave a portion it's straight yes yes absolutely you're you know you're out of debt you have an emergency fund right yeah you bet your household income is what

I'm just over 100. She's rated 75. Okay, 175. And you owe 400, and you're going to get 300. Yeah, you're baby step six. Four, five, and six is what we'd be putting 15% of your income away already towards retirement. And baby step four or five is kids' college. If you want to throw something towards kids' college or something, you can if you're not already doing that. And then I'm going to throw the rest of it at the house. I will take something out of it and just go on.

some kind of celebration you know let's take 20 grand and you know go buy a thingy or go on a cruise or whatever it is you want to do i don't care this is some way to kind of enjoy the success enjoy the success and then i'm throw the rest of it at the house and then reach over my 175 income and knock out a house out what two years you're gonna be dead free that's pretty cool dude

Yeah, yeah, no, it's good. So I guess the reason I was really asking, like I mentioned, I hate the mortgage payment. And I had this idea, and don't rip me apart too much, but the idea I had was just basically to have it sitting in some kind of mutual fund or something like that and to just draw that month by month to pay for the house, basically allowing it to produce returns. Yeah. Or is that just... We don't find any millionaires that do that.

We find them just paying off their mortgage. All the data indicates that wealthy people don't do that stuff. They just really, they just hate mortgages, get rid of their mortgage and they dump money in their retirement. And that's the first level of wealth. The first million to $5 million, that's where it comes from. So I just don't find people doing it. Um, and the reason is it adds risk to the situation.

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George Camel, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host. Thank you for joining us, America. I am Dave Ramsey. The Ramsey Summer Black Friday sale ends tonight. This is Wednesday, for those of you, the 17th. Tonight it ends at midnight.

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on sale. All these bestsellers and many other things on sale for $12. Be sure and check them out. The Summer Black Friday Sale, ramseysolutions.com slash sale, ends midnight tonight. Do not delay. Thanks for being with us. Amber's on the line. Amber's in Detroit. Hi, Amber. How are you? Hi. How are you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay, so basically I went to court yesterday as I was sentenced to court by Capital One on the behalf of the lawyers based on Capital One, so they directly sued me. The lawyer approached me in court to settle out, but the settlement was

Well, the debt overall is $7,000 with the court fees. And so they pretty much told me I could settle out for $6,000 with interest that would incur if I was on a monthly payment. I was trying to do a lump sum, but I can't afford that. I'm in economic hardship, and I explained that to the lawyer. And they're playing hardball, and I'm trying to find out how can I go about settling for a lower amount. Well, wow. So...

In most states, Michigan, I think, is one of them. They can garnish you your wages, but it'll take them a while if you don't do anything. Okay? So what happens is the lawsuit, they've offered you a settlement, and in the meantime, they're going to take a judgment. Okay? The court is going to rule that you owe the money and didn't pay the money judgment. So when the judgment becomes final...

At least 30 days will go by, if not more, before they can execute on the judgment. Executing on the judgment means that they would scarf money out of a bank account or garnish you a wage if your state allows those things. Okay? Texas, for instance, does not allow that. But I'm pretty sure Michigan does. I'm not an attorney in Michigan, so I'm not an attorney anywhere. But that's the type of thing you're facing. So there's nothing...

on fire, nothing's going to happen bad to you in the next 10 minutes. It's going to be a month or two or six or a year. Okay? Does that make sense? See, one of the things I've found is if I can get the panic off, then I can get my edge back in this negotiation. You went down to court, which is so unusual. I'm really shocked that this moron only offered you a six grand settlement on a $7,000 balance.

I would have guessed they would have offered 50 cents on the dollar, hoping you would offer a quarter on the dollar. We generally can get most of these bad credit card debts to settle for somewhere around, you know, 15 to 20 cents on the dollar. All we do is just call them up and yell at them. Okay. And your financial hardship really doesn't matter to any of them. They don't give a crap about you. The lawyer, Capital One, the judge, none of them do. Okay. Okay.

So your story holds no water whatsoever. Cry me a river as far as they're concerned. Okay? Now, I understand what it does. It pinches your emotions, and it keeps you terrorized, and it makes you have things in your throat that gulp, gulp, gulp. I've been there. I remember these little sweat in the palm of your hands. You had some pretty big courage to walk into that courtroom, Amber. Way to go.

Thank you. I'm very nervous, actually. I bet. I bet. But it's kind of funny, though, isn't it? I mean, it's like the first time I ever got a speeding ticket, and it's first of many, but I went to traffic court. And traffic court is like nothing. I mean, I was more scared of my sixth grade teacher.

than I was traffic court. Traffic court's a joke. You go in there and they go, oh, you showed up? Okay, well, wave the ticket, right? Your first one, most places they do that, right? You bother to show up. And did you kind of have that experience? It's like you were all scared and you thought you were going down there and there was going to be like a trial and they were going to, you know, have a jury and Matlock was going to come out or Perry Mason or somebody. And it's just like nothing. You're just like a, you know, you're down there in the middle of a grinder and they're just making hamburger meat. Taking a number at the deli. All right, next. Next.

Did you notice that? Yes. There's really no drama, is there? No. Not that I imagine. Yeah, so not like your brain had told you for the three days before you went down there. So the same thing is true now of settling this, okay? They put this out there as if it's their only thing they're going to do. Their chances of actually collecting anything from you statistically is zero, okay?

Ninety-eight percent of the people in your situation end up filing bankruptcy or just disappearing, and they can't find them. They collect almost none of these judgments, and they know that. They were so shocked that an actual human being showed up. They didn't know what to do. It never happens. So all that to say is this. You owe $7,000. You could probably settle that for $2,000, and I want you to scrape together $2,000 really, really fast. What do you make?

I have two grand. So actually, I'm an independent contractor. I do $2,000. You do have $2,000? Yeah, I tried to. So I ended up calling them back yesterday after the court hearing because I had to do another motion to say payment installments of I could afford $100. No, don't do any payment. No payment installments. No. Do not give them any payments. Okay.

So I already have the motion put in file day, so I don't know what to do with that. Like I had to do another motion for them, you know. For payments? You took an installment plan as a motion? Yeah. Okay, call the judge and tell him you can't do it. Okay. Just tell him to pull that out. Because it's just saying, I looked at my budget, Your Honor, I'm sorry, I can't do it. I can settle with them for $2,000 and that's all I can do. I don't have room in the budget to do this. I was just scared and I shouldn't have filed that. I'm sorry.

And just tell the court clerk that and tell them to pull the motion off the docket. Okay? Okay. They'll do it. And then call up Capital One Boy and tell him that you talked to your financial advisor and your financial advisor told you to file bankruptcy if he won't take the two grand. Because I just told you to do that. I really don't want you to do that, by the way. But I did just tell you that so you can tell him I said that. I mean, yeah, I honestly was my next option because... No, you're not bankrupt. You don't need to file bankruptcy. You need to bluff. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Just walk away. Just go. All I got is two grand. If you want some money, Bubba, here's some money. If you don't want some money, we got nothing else to talk about because I'm not paying you payments. And if you come after me and start messing with my paycheck, I'm going to file bankruptcy on you. So you're going to get nothing. I'm a chapter seven. Tell him this. Tell him my financial advisor said I'm a chapter seven looking for a place to happen.

Oh, okay. They all know what it means. Yeah, because you are. And he knows the same statistics I know, that as soon as he pushes you to the wall and garnishes your wages, you're going to file and he's going to get nothing. Now, I am not saying you're bankrupt. You're not, Amber, because you're going to scrape together $2,000. Now, here's what we're going to do. He's not going to take it today, but if you keep pestering him, they might take it. In the meantime, pile it up to $3,000 and up your offer and keep upping it until you get it settled.

and settle it for a lump sum for pennies on the dollar 50 cents on the dollar max 3500 is max until then just beat the snot out of them just worry them call them every day y'all ready to take some money i got money y'all want the money when are y'all gonna take my money i'm begging you to take my money i'm calling you to take my money you don't have to call me i'm calling you and just just have fun with this this is the ramsey show

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financial.com. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today.

Our question of the day comes from Ethan in Minnesota. Ethan says, my wife and I would be best described as baby step-ish up until the beginning of this year. Unfortunately, we always seem to slip back into debt and I can't figure out why. We just completed Financial Peace University at our church, but I need help with prioritizing. While we're still in baby step two, trying to pay off our consumer debt, we've been putting 12% into our 401k because of my company's 100% match.

We also have $7,000 in a Robinhood account and $10,000 in savings. Together, our income is approximately $150,000 a year. My question, should I pull the Robinhood 5K and stop our 401K contributions temporarily? I honestly don't want to touch the $10,000 in savings. With five children, an aging furnace, and a second vehicle, Murphy is bound to stop by soon. Ethan, I don't think we can help you.

He decided to do Ethan's plan. Yeah. And he said he's going to keep doing Ethan's plan. So, I mean, you know exactly what you're supposed to do and what we teach you to do. And millions of people have followed exactly what we told you to do. But for some reason, you, the broke guy, don't think you need to do it. I don't think we can help you. You're not you're not willing to be helped.

They've already been through the financial piece. If I hire a personal trainer who has a six-pack or an eight-pack, is ripped like a Greek god, and I go down there in the gym with my keg, and he's got a six-pack, my belly sticking out in front of me, and I go, I don't think I agree with your nutrition plan. I don't think I'm going to do those exercises the way you think they ought to be done. You know what that is, Ethan? Dumber than crap.

That's what that is. And that's what this email is. It's dumber than crap. It's unbelievable. Well, he's wasting his own time, and he's wasting everyone else's time. Because clearly, you like your plan, even though your plan's not working. Even though it sucks. That's essentially what you said. And the results suck, and you're financially upside down and sideways. And you've been all around this. You know what we're going to say. And yet, you tell us what the guidelines are that you will go along with.

Give me a break, dude. Go do something else. Quit wasting your time with our stuff. Because if you're half-butt going to do it, you're going to get a half-butt result or a worse result even. So no, I don't think we can help you. All right. That was easy. Dawn's with us in Austin, Texas. Hey, Dawn, how are you? Hi, Gabe. Hi, George. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help?

Well, we were wondering, my husband and I, we think we're in baby step seven. We think we've maxed out the 529s from where our kids are going to school and wanted to know if we want to continue to contribute on their behalf, where is the best place to place those investments now that they're going to be withdrawing for the 529 plans?

You're not going to put any more in the 529, right? Well, they're going to end state college tuition. It's about $120, and we've got $150 in there. Okay, so you're good. Trying to identify where we go. You can cover housing and books out of that, too, so you're fine. So you want to put more money aside just for your kids, just for life, or in case you wanted to upgrade something at the school?

Right, and we're already in the rhythm of doing so, so we wanted to continue. Okay, cool. I wouldn't. I would just put it in your name and gift it to them later. Okay. I appreciate it. Thanks so much. So if you've got an extra $400,000 or $500,000 laying around and you want to give a kid a couple hundred for their first house or something, that'd be cool.

All right. I appreciate it. Yeah. And you can look into it. You know, it's not going to hit. There's an estate gift limit, but you're not going to. It's millions and millions and millions. Twenty seven million this year. So it'll go against that. But you're not going to go near touching that. So don't be worried about that. But what a cool way to bless the kids. Yeah. Very neat. Parents of the year right there. Very neat. That's the kind of stuff you can do when you do the baby steps. Well, baby step seven. She's brilliant. I mean, well done, Dawn. Way to go. I mean, you killed it. Quite the opposite of our emailer. But the emailer.

And the thing is, like, I have, I've run into people now that have been doing the Ramsey stuff so long, George, that they did this. They had a wedding fund fully funded. They have their education fund fully funded. Wedding fund is in their personal name, but they're able to then pay for their kid's wedding, right? And their first house, pay cash for it.

Pay cash for the couple's first house. And the guy said, I just make my kids sign a little one-page letter that promises that they will never go into debt for anything if I give them a free house so that I'm the last person with my last name to ever have any debt in this branch of the family tree. Wow. Completely break the cycle forever. That's legacy. That's the definition right there. That's fun. That's fun. That's pretty cool. And Dawn, she's approaching...

Being able to do that. Yeah. Well, I wanted to ask you about that. I was going to do it off air. I'll ask on now because this is good teaching. For those of us that are following the baby steps, I got about one-year-old little girl now, and I'm thinking about these things. Hey, I'd love to help cover. I want to cover the wedding, help maybe the 401 Dave plan for her first car. I pitch in half. She gets some skin in the game, pitches in the other half. Maybe pay, obviously pay for college. Make sure we cash flow that. Maybe cover her first house. Mm-hmm.

maybe with her spouse one day. Are those wise things to do? It's sort of like getting an inheritance early in a way. Yeah, it is very wise to do, but the wisdom is contingent upon the kid buying into the value system.

And so if the kid's off the ranch, obviously, you know, they're out there going crazy and whatever. We're not going to, you know, we're doing heroin. I'm not buying them a house, right? I mean, you're not, obviously, your child's not going to be doing that. Dear God, I hope. But the, you know what I'm saying. Or if they, you know, they marry somebody who's got a screw loose or something, then, you know, we're not going to do it. But if the two of you are sane and you buy into, you know, George and, you know, George's family values, right?

And this is what we, you know, uh, uh, a spouse at our house. And, and if you're going to do that, then silent note here, just a simple letter. It's not a contract, but I just want your name written down here. I want you to say out loud, not just verbally, cause you forget. I want you to write it down. I'll bring this back out later if I need to. And it says, I, we will never borrow money again because my dream is that my children, my grandchildren, my great grandchildren will never have any debt because of the hard work that I did.

and the teaching that I did, teaching them. But it won't work if you haven't invested into your child's work ethic, their ability to be generous, their ability to save, their ability to live on less than they make, their ability to understand a budget, their ability to hate debt.

If they're doing all of those things and then you give them a house and their new spouse is willing to go in on that, then boom, you know, you got the deal, right? That's impressive. So you can change everything. And you're exactly, I mean, you got a one-year-old, so you can do this. You'll be able to do it. But, you know, it is, well, that's controlling everything.

You're being a control freak. You're saying because it has the string attached of never go into debt. But the truth is, why would you ever need to go into debt at that point? Well, because some idiot on Instagram told them to. To go leverage some real estate or write off a car. Yeah, or some idiot on TikTok told them it was a good idea to get passive income. But the thing is this. Yes, it is controlling. It's my freaking money. Want my money? Do my plan. Don't want my money? Do your plan. That's how this works. It's simple.

And it's, you know, that's the way that my kids were raised and the way, you know, so yeah, it is controlling. But guess what? Good parenting is controlling. Don't play in the street. You will get hit by a car. That's controlling. You know, we're not raising wild animals. We're raising humans. They're supposed to have boundaries. They're supposed to have guidelines. They're supposed to have values. And yeah, so this is just one of those things. So of course it's controlling. All good parents are controlling.

Brush your teeth because you'll want some later. You know, I mean, this is controlling, right? This is, yeah, there we go. That's timeless wisdom. It's a good thing to have some. Now, I get questions about this. The UTMA, the UGMA, the Unified Transfer to Minors Act. The problem with that is that when they're 18, they automatically get the money if it's in their name. Exactly. Which can be very dangerous to your point. Exactly. What if there's misbehavior? We don't know what your kid's going to be like at 18. Exactly. So to have $150,000 could be detrimental. Exactly. So I put it in my name.

and then gift it to them later. Now, in the old days, there was no 529, so our children actually had UTMAs and UGMAs. That was their college funds. But I told them, if you're misbehaving, I'll just hide the account. You won't be able to find it. I'll steal it from you. So good luck with that because I'm not going to fund your heroin addiction. So we're going to have to keep this on the line here. But that's not a suggested strategy. This is The Ramsey Show.

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George Campbell, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour with our own Rachel Cruz. He's my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Dylan's with us in Nashville. Hi, Dylan. How are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So both my wife and I are students in our last semester of college, and we are expecting our first child in February. Well, congratulations. I have a question for you.

Thank you. We're pretty excited. My question is, we have two options on where to go after school. We can go to both of our families in Pensacola and make about $140,000.

or our second option is to stay here in Nashville and make about $260,000 net. So we're having a tough time deciding whether to be around family as we're learning how to be a new mom and dad or to throw away that money and change our future. Okay, that's weird. That much discrepancy. There's not that much discrepancy between Nashville and Pensacola.

What are your degrees in? So I'll graduate with an electrical engineering degree, and she'll graduate as an attorney when she passes the bar. So if she's in the COLA, she'll do plaintiff work, and she will spend a couple years in the prosecutor's office. Why? Getting experience to get trial experience. It's hard to... What is she going to do if she's in Nashville?

She'll work for a defense attorney. Why not work for a defense attorney in Pensacola? You're not comparing apples to apples. No, not really. How are you guys so sure and so set on all of this? It sounds like you have this all dialed in.

Yeah, so we've been, I have done about five internships and she's done about four. So her dad does law in Pensacola. So he asked around for salaries in Pensacola. And in Nashville, we have our salaries just because we've been talking. You cut out. You've been, you have your salaries. Why?

So in Pensacola, her dad works as an attorney in Pensacola, so we got him to ask around. And in Nashville, it's the salaries that we've been talking to. We've been working for them throughout college. Okay, a defense attorney in Nashville one year out of law school does not make double what a defense attorney in Pensacola makes one year out of law school. That's just not true. You've got bad stats, man.

So, yeah. No, really. You do have bad stats. Her dad got one of you two got bad numbers. Sure. Okay. I mean, seriously. So you're talking about her making what in Nashville? 185. One what? 185. She's going to make 185 in Nashville. Okay. As a defense attorney one year out of law school. Yes, sir. Is this an internship that they offered her that?

Yes, sir. Okay. And her dad asked around in Pensacola and said a defense attorney one year out of law school in Pensacola makes what? About $85,000 their first year. I just don't perceive that. I mean, we've got, I don't have any criminal defense attorneys, but I've got way too many lawyers who,

That I give money to. And I just do not perceive that much difference in the Pensacola market. You're talking about less than 50%. It's not logical. Something's wrong. I'm telling you these numbers are wrong. So, or she got the best deal on the planet ever, which the 185 sounds high to me, but I hope it's right. Right.

And the worst deal ever, or just a perception in Pensacola. So in your situation, you're being offered what, both places? I'm offered probably around $85 to $95 in both places. Okay, see, that's more logical. So the swing is the discrepancy in her pay. Yes, sir. And also, she kind of dumbed it down and goes, well, if we go back to Pensacola, I'm going to work in the prosecutor's office and make nothing.

Yeah, really. I mean, because you took it all the way down to nothing then, right? That's not the $100,000, right? Yes, sir. So it would be either $65,000 in prosecutor or $85,000 for defense. Yeah, private. Okay. All right. So then the second question is,

Let's assume those numbers work through and get some sanity to them. I'm still not okay with this discrepancy. I've got to work through that if I'm you. You do whatever you want to do, but I've got to work through that because it's not logical. The second thing is, because Pensacola is not a huge market, but Nashville is a medium-sized market. I mean, it is a metropolitan area, I mean, for sure. And so, anyway, the second thing is,

If we stay in Nashville 10 years from today from a career perspective, are we glad we did? If we go to Pensacola 10 years from today, are we glad we took that career path? Because if the curve separates them even more severely...

you know, projecting out 10 years, then that's a bigger part of the decision. In other words, is your opportunity more limited severely by being in a smaller market, both of you? You're upside. Because I would expect your income to double.

in that decade or more in your field, okay? And I would expect hers to probably do, probably double as well during that time in a normal market situation. But if you feel like in a quote-unquote smaller town, you are not going to have that opportunity. That's the second question is, what's the long-term implications of this decision? The third question is simply, where do I want to live?

Sure. And Dylan, I'll tell you, as a new dad, I got about a one-year-old. My in-laws, they're near Pensacola. My family's in Boston. And they fly. And it's a one-way direct flight for them to come visit us. It's a one-way direct flight. We go visit them. And it's been great. And so I wouldn't make the decision just based on my parents are close. As a matter of fact, your in-laws moved away. They left us. They were here and they left you like an orphan. They wanted to retire at the beach. Can you imagine, Dylan? They went to the beach. They went to Pensacola and left you.

So there you go. That's the truth. And it's been great for us, and I wouldn't trade it, and Nashville is wonderful. So I would be where you guys want to be long-term, to Dave's point. And the family part is just a bonus. And it's hard not having family nearby, but we got a lot of support, a lot of community. You can pay for babysitters and daycare and be just fine. I would not make the decision only on the math today, even after I've adjusted the math for the questions I beat you up on.

Okay. And who knows? Maybe the in-laws, if the baby's cute enough, they move to Nashville. I'd love to be near the grandbaby. They might move away. If you move to Pensacola, they might move away. That would be detrimental. Like yours. That would hurt my feelings. That's personal at that point. They just don't like you. We moved down here for you and then y'all left. This is The Ramsey Show.

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We were talking during the commercial break about the young electrical engineer and lawyer on the move. And George and I both had an additional thought. An epiphany, if you will. There you go. There you go. That's what happens during commercial breaks. We have epiphanies. And I guess. But anyway, the other thing you can do, folks, if you're facing something like that,

Um, number one, if you've got this vast discrepancy, you need to look into the differences because it's not logical. Okay. That I'm going to go back to that one more time. But aside from that, uh, if you can make $260,000 a year at 20 something years old, brand new, married, just out of school. And it's, you know, and it's not a town you had planned to live in.

look at it as an adventure and go do it and say okay we're going to do this for three years we're going to commit to three years and at the end of three years we're going to reassess i mean the new baby will be three we can still move and be near the grandparents um we can figure out if the travel has been too strenuous on anyone back and forth to see family and that kind of stuff um and you know we're while we're having this adventure we're going to stack some cash

But it's not like you have to, one of the things that we end up doing with a purchase of a home, certainly with a purchase of a car or a decision to make a move on a career, we act like that you can't undo the decision. Okay? If you don't like the car, you can sell it. If you don't like the house, you sell it. If you don't like the city, move. Okay?

You know what I mean? So these things are not as permanent as our emotions. We fret over it like God's going to say, you cannot leave. You get one chance. Decide carefully. I hope he sounds like that. I mean, seriously, is that what he's going to do? No, that's not how it works. If you get there and the town sucks, leave. Or you don't like the town. Leave.

Nothing is permanent unless you make it permanent. So there we go. David is with us. David is in Minneapolis. Hi, David. How are you? Hi, I'm doing good. How are you doing? Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help?

I just have a question. Okay, so I'm receiving an inheritance from a family member that had passed away, right? And I currently am living with my girlfriend, Kelly. And at first, when I first started getting the inheritance, she was directed as a payee, as a watch over guy type of thing for me with my money. And I just recently found out that...

About around $30,000 to $40,000 is just gone from that that I should have saved in a bank account, and it's just missing. Don't know where it's at. How can I legally try to go about getting my money back in returns to me? You're saying you put your girlfriend on your account, and she stole your money? Yes, and there's no receipts. There's nothing. And why is she not the ex-girlfriend?

I'm trying to figure that one out myself as well. Yeah, me too, because I got about a three and a half second rule on this one, buddy. I have a low threshold for dating criminals and people who committed fraud against me. Yeah, I've asked her about it, and she's verbally admitted to it, but there's nothing I don't know. What did she do with the money, pray tell?

I don't know. Well, did you ask her? You stole my $40,000. Where the hell is my money? This is how this sounds. It's a natural line of questioning. She literally tells me, I don't know. That's literally it. Yeah. I literally don't know where you're going to be living by nightfall because I'm setting all your crap out in the street.

Right, and then I've had a good friend of mine, my buddy, that's one of my neighbors, he's helped me with it and tried to add up and do some financial checking with it. And a couple of times, that's how we found out about this, and a couple of times I've actually had to, I've gotten back pay with my inheritance a couple of different times for two years. David, is she still on the account today, honey?

No, she is not. Is she still living in your house? Yes. Why? She has nothing to do with my bank account. Why is she still in your house? I'm renting. You need the rent money? No. We're both on the same lease together. Is your phone cutting out or is somebody in the background? I'm with my friend. He's with me as well. He's telling you what to say?

He's helping me, like, with... David, how old are you? I'm 29 years old, sir. What do you do for a living, sir? I currently do not have a job at the moment. Why? I'm looking for a new job. Why? I lost my job. Okay, why? If I'm going to be honest about it, from my past, substance abuse. Okay, okay, that's fair. How long has it been since you've worked? Honestly, about four or five months, about almost five months. Okay, all right. Um...

So, I think you need more and better counsel in your life than just your friend who's trying to help you. And I'm glad he's trying to help you, but you need some other folks in your life to help guide you through putting your life together in a way that this kind of thing doesn't happen to you, okay? Yes, sir. And so...

You are in the Minneapolis area, all right? Yes, sir. And so what I'm going to do is Christian's going to pick up when I put you on hold, and we're going to connect you with a good local church there and get some of the pastoral team to come around you and help guide you back into a career.

and guide you to make sure that these kinds of things aren't happening to you, help you stay sober, help you with your sobriety, and help you put together a life that doesn't leave you vulnerable to this kind of thing. And that's going to include, my suggestion is that this lady needs to leave your home today, okay? Yes. And she does not your girlfriend anymore. Okay.

Because people that love people don't do this to other people. Give me one. Sorry. And tell her to take her dog with her too. Yeah. I don't think legally, I mean, she's a payee on the account. Well, I don't know. I don't think he's going to get his money back because she spent it. It's gone. It's not like she moved it into her name and has done a beautiful investment that he's going to get back. There's no one in this whole story that's very smart.

And so, um, no, you've got to separate yourself from, um, people that bring you harm.

You have to put physical distance between yourself, emotional distance, spiritual distance, and legal distance. But David, you're not going to get your money back. Your money's gone. The only thing you can do is prevent this from happening again by putting your life together in such a way that you have a sustainable life where you don't need this inheritance and it becomes a blessing that you can grow and build yourself a prosperous life long term. But you're not going to do that with this

under your roof, okay? And when someone steals your money, there is no magic hack to help you get your money back. Most of the time when someone steals your money, it's gone. You know, very rarely. And, you know, you could threaten to prosecute her criminally if she doesn't return the money and see if she coughs some of it up. But I...

don't know that she can because I think she probably spent it. I think it's probably probably spent on drugs. I don't know. I have no idea what she spent it on. Another reminder, never combine your finances or life with someone you're not married to. Ever. Period. Ever. Ever. Never do that. Good point, George. This is The Ramsey Show.

George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. If you want to win with money, it's an intentional act, meaning you have to do it on purpose. You don't accidentally win at anything, and money is true as well. If you want to build wealth, no one accidentally builds wealth. Oops, look what happened. They don't say that.

They got worked real hard. I lived on less than I made. I saved and invested. I have been generous and careful. I've been wise over a long period of time, and now I'm very wealthy. This is the story we hear over and over and over again. How do you do that on a daily basis? You do it with a written game plan called a budget. And we tell folks to give every dollar an assignment. That's why we named the world's best budgeting app EveryDollar.

Your spouse has it on their phone. You have it on your phone. You have it on the computer. And everybody knows what everybody's doing. And everybody is in agreement. And boom, we execute the plan. Download EveryDollar like tens of millions of people have done for free in the App Store. The EveryDollar budgeting app in the App Store or Google Play or EveryDollar.com. Dia is with us in Sacramento. Hi, Dia. How are you?

Hi, good. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So my husband and I, we started a trucking company in 2022. He was the owner operator previously. And, um, since we started the company, we just kept losing money. And, um, now we're at the point where we have everything maxed out, all our credit cards, business credit cards, and personal, um,

We have a truck loan and we had a claim that was that wanted to go into court, but they kind of backed out for now. We have to fuel fuel.

companies that actually need their payments as well. So that's our situation right now, and we don't know if we should be filing bankruptcy or if we need to figure something out because we really don't want to file bankruptcy, but it's just that everyone's calling us, you know. It's scary, isn't it? All the fun stuff. Yeah, very, very scary. I'm sorry. So right now we have two little girls. How old are your babies?

Uh, one's about two months. One's just turned four. Wow. So what are you guys, 28? Um, we are in our thirties, early thirties, 32 and 33. Okay. All right. Okay. Um, so he's still running the company, right? Um, so far now we had to shut down because our insurance was just, um, costing way more than we were making. Okay. What do you, what do you owe on the truck?

On the truck currently we owe about $8,000. Okay. What's it worth? It is worth about $20,000. Good. Okay. If you file bankruptcy, you understand that the bankruptcy court is going to sell the truck, right? Yeah. Yeah. And we don't want that because that is practically our source of income. You know, right now. You don't have an income. You have a losing business.

Yes, they do. So what would I do if I woke up in your shoes and I have been where you are? I've been so scared I couldn't breathe with a brand new baby and a toddler and a marriage hanging on by a thread and a failed business. I've been right there. That's what happened to me when I was 28. Yeah, it's been rough. So what would I do if I were in your shoes? I would tell him to take his CDL and go get a job tomorrow.

Okay, so currently he is working for a company. He's a driver now. He just started about three weeks ago. Perfect. What's he making?

He is making about $1,500 a week. So the other thing is the truck that we have, the turbo broke down, and that's $3,000 while he was on the road. He was working, like, essentially as an owner-operator. And then once the truck broke down, it stopped. So the truck is worth $28,000, but it has a $3,000 broken item, and you owe $8,000. Yeah, yeah. So you're going to sell it for $25,000 because somebody's got to fix the turbo.

And you're going to take the rest of the money and start settling your debts. Okay. Okay. Let's pretend you walk out of this with $15,000 or $20,000 cash after you sell the truck. Okay. I would say more $15,000 with the turbo and everything. Yeah, I think you're probably right. I'm just saying. Okay. And he's making $1,500 a week, and he's working like a crazy man. He's not scared of work.

He's not. He's a hard worker. Y'all have not been good at the business side of it, but he knows how to drive a truck and he knows how to work and he can go make money and he's good at that. So we got a $6,000 a month income now and you got babies. Is there anything you can do from home to add income?

I'm looking to see if I can find a job from home. I used to work in the pharmacy as a tech, and I was going back to school. I wanted to go back to school. You're not back to school right now. Right now we're trying to eat.

Okay. Yeah. Right now we need any income you can create that's legal and moral and doesn't leave your family in jeopardy. Okay. Yeah. So if he's making six and you could pull in another two, now we got eight to work with. We got 15 from the sale of the truck. You told me you had $70,000 in debt. Credit card debt is how much?

Credit card debt is about $50,000. It's like $10,000 on each. So the fuel bill that's calling you is how much?

The fuel bill one is $2,500 and the other one is $10,000 and he took it to a small court claim but they didn't serve us so we talked to an attorney and he said not to show up to court because until they serve you, you don't have to do anything with it. Okay, so here's what I want you to do. I want you to take the $15,000, sell the truck and do it this week. Okay. Sell the truck.

now okay okay because part of what happens when you get this deep in the mud is you you slow down i want you to speed up okay you got 15 000 in your hand you have 12 500 in fuel bill pay the 2500 as soon as you get to 15 just pay them you owe it okay call the 10k guy and say i've got a little bit of cash but not enough to pay you the whole thing what would you take and talk to him on the phone

Okay. What would you take? We're closing down. We're out of business. We're trying to keep from filing bankruptcy. I got a little bit of cash and I want to try to pay you before I deal with the credit cards. Would you, what, how much would you knock off if I bring you cash today? Okay. And see if he'll take five or 7,000 bucks, 5,000 bucks, 7,000 bucks. Okay. And get that 10 down just a little bit and go take him some money. Cause that's a small business guy trying to eat too. Right. Okay.

Right, yeah. You want to pay him. Okay. So the credit card company can jump in a creek. I'm going to take care of those two fuel guys first. Okay. That feels pretty good, doesn't it? It does, yes. Right now we're trying to make payments for the credit card. I don't give a crap about the credit cards. Let them sit. Let's get these fuel. Let's get the truck sold, get the fuel thing taken care of, settle the tin, get it in writing from him, in writing that he's accepting...

seven thousand dollars five thousand dollars whatever it is as settlement in full on this debt no more is owed okay in writing or don't give him the money and then give him a cashier's check okay that day walk over there and hand him his money and just pay the twenty five hundred now those two are gone you still got a little bit of money in your hand

Yes. Okay. Now I want you to line up and start doing a budget and take care of the four walls, George. Absolutely. That's food, utility, shelter, transportation, and your basic insurance. Outside of that, we're not spending any money. But think about this. Now you're down to 50K of credit cards. You're making 72. There's no need to file bankruptcy. We're going to knock this thing out in two years.

You see how that works? You can clean his credit cards up as you can get to him. But you don't pay credit cards until your family eats and your rent is paid and the lights are paid. Okay. Credit cards are not first, they're last. Okay. And my husband just worries about his credit score. Who gives a crap about his credit score? You just lost a business. Do you know what a credit score does? It gives him access to more debt. That's how we got into this mess. Right, right. Your credit score has been such a blessing to you so far. Yes, it has. It crashed you.

It crashed us, yes. Who gives a crap about your credit score? I want your babies to eat and his wife to relax. Yeah, well, I haven't relaxed for the past three years. I know, I know. You deserve a better life. He's a hard worker as well. Both of you deserve better than this. So credit cards are the end of the list. We're going to get to them, but we're going to get to them last. Take care of the fuel bill. Get the truck sold. Let's get moving, okay?

Okay. You hang on. We're going to get you into Financial Peace University and get you into every dollar as our gift to make sure you're taken care of. We'll show you how to handle money and how to walk out of this. You can do this. You're not bankrupt. You're just scared. This is the Ramsey Show.

Listen, tickets for the Live Like No One Else cruise are selling fast. This is the ultimate debt-free vacation, and I can't wait to celebrate with all the folks who've worked their butts off and changed their family trees. We will be sailing through the blue waters of the Caribbean with the Ramsey personalities.

and other special guests. A bunch of cabin options are already sold out, so hurry and reserve yours with a $600 deposit today at ramseysolutions.com slash events. I'm Dave Ramsey. My co-host today is George Camel. George, when someone clicks follow on YouTube or subscribe on Spotify or Apple on the podcast,

or they leave a five-star review, or they share the show by letting people know by link or clicking a share button or something like that, what happens? Well, the algorithm gods, they shine their faces down upon us, and they go, hey, other people need to see this. And so they put it in front of more people who don't know about the show, which then hopefully, you know, they click, and it gives them a bit of hope in the world of a lot of just filth and crap out there in the media world. That's how I think it works. I'm not an expert on that.

So if you want to give an offering to the algorithm gods, you would do it by clicking subscribe or follow on one of our formats that your platforms that you're listening or watching. All kidding aside, it does help us a bunch. The numbers do change and they do run a formula on this stuff and YouTube or Apple or whoever they do push the show out, promote it.

If it's hot, if you guys are doing, and we know you guys are doing all of this because our numbers are like way up. And it's a domino effect because that pushes it up to this piece of the chart. And then this piece of the chart, next thing you know, we're looking up going, we're number one in business and on podcasts and people are now finding the show and it kind of spirals from there. So that's the best way to help us market the show. And the best news is it's completely free to do that. We're not asking for your money here. And you're a big help to us. We appreciate you very much for doing that.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Joshua is with us in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hey, Joshua, how are you? Doing good, Dave. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Um, so my question for you today is should I rent an apartment or buy a mobile home? Uh, so long story short, I have kind of worn out my welcome at living at home and uh, I'm just trying to figure out the best way to go about it. Uh, I am in about $27,000 in debt still. I'm working my way through the baby steps. How old are you? 28.

Oh, yeah, you definitely worn out your welcome. And what do you make? What's your income? About $60,000 yearly. Good for you. What do you do for a living? I'm currently a maintenance tech and programmer for my company. Good for you. Awesome. Okay, so you're saying, should I rent or buy a mobile home? That answer is very easy, rent. I would never suggest anyone buy a mobile home because that thing is going down in value.

Yeah, you're going to move further and further away from money when you have a very large car that you sleep in. Cars go down in value like a rock. So do mobile homes, and that's what a mobile home does. And so not only are you going to be paying payments on it, but you're going to be losing value every single month you own it. And so it takes you down two different ways. Rent only takes you down one way. It's just you're paying for a place to live. So go get you the least expensive apartment that you can get that's safe.

nothing fancy. Don't spend a bunch of money on this because the more money you spend on this, the less money you can spend getting out of debt. And as soon as you get out of debt, you can save up the money for a down payment, get you an actual house that goes up in value that we would suggest after you're out of debt. But yeah, we don't, you know, you take a $50,000 mobile home and you visit it just a few years later, it's worth 10.

And now you're underwater on it. Yeah. And so it's dangerous. So, Joshua, you might need to get fewer mates. When you turn 50 into 10, that's not a wealth building mechanism. Okay? That's why this answer is so quick and so easy. Well, I think the reason people will go to that, Dave, is because they go, well, my payment on the mobile home would be 800 bucks and rent around here is 1,200 bucks. And so they just see that. Yeah, but you're losing more than 400 a month in value. Exactly. And you're stuck. Rent, when the lease is up, you move.

So, and Joshua, to help you, the parameter here is you want to look at a quarter of your take-home pay. So if you make four grand take-home from your 60, you want to try to keep it at a thousand, which means you might need to get roommates, which is totally fine. Or find a, you know, a garage apartment over the top of some rich old lady's house and cut her grass for part of the

dadgum rent and that's the kind of deal you're looking for you're just trying to get out of the house because you wore up your wore out your welcome and get yourself established as a 28 year old man good for you and get a sustainable situation built then work your way out of debt then build your emergency fund then build your down payment by house this is your game plan sir well done tommy is in charleston south carolina hey tommy how are you doing well how are you better than we deserve what's up

I'm 58 years old. I haven't saved a lot for retirement. I have about $75,000 in a 401k. Just started listening to you guys, so I switched it over what I've been putting into the Roth 401k. Good. I mean, that was the right thing to do. It was. And so the company I currently work for, they

They have a stock purchase program you get invited to or they ask you to do. And it's three different levels to it. And I'm at the first level and I funded that last year with $2,000 with them doing a $2,000 match to it. And also the

The first year it went up 30%. But every year they ask if, you know, if you want to buy more stock. And when you do, that helps you get to the next level if you're ever invited to be at the next level. What is this, Scientology? What do you mean? Why is there multiple levels here? You know, I guess that's the way. I really don't know. Okay. But my question really is, should I participate in? Is this company publicly traded on the stock market?

It's private. Yeah. So my question is, should I, you know, I like to retire when I'm 65 or 67. Should I just focus on the Roth 401k and not worry about that? Yes. Okay. Because you have absolutely no control over this privately held stock. Right. They are technically allowed to do whatever they want to do. That's where the levels thing came from. It's something they just made up.

Okay, to try to encourage employees to buy into it. It went up 33%, but that's because they just decided it went up 33%. You put the thing on at a book value, and there's very little, and there's no market for it. You can't sell it. You have to sell it back to them. Right. Yeah. That's correct. So if it goes up 33%, but you have to sell it back to them with a discount, then it didn't go up 33%.

Right. So, no, I'm not. That's not where I want my money in a situation that I have no control and no ability to liquidate it and turn it into something. So I'm putting it all in the 401k. And if you put that money in your 401k with how the stock market's been doing, you're seeing 20, 25, 30 percent last year as of 2024. I'm not saying that's going to continue, but last year was 26 and this year is 17 to date.

So not a bad return right there either. And you can actually sell those funds and make real money instead of Ramsey bucks. Maybe we should start that one day, Dave. I'm going to take that as a no. Dave is not going to start his own. I'm trying to think how to respond to that intelligently live on the air. There is no way to respond intelligently to a stupid question. That's what I've learned. Yeah, Tommy, and if you can get your money out of that,

I would. If you've only got $2,000 in there, that's fine. But if you've got much more than that in there, I'm worried for you. I'm not saying they're going to crash, but you just don't have any control. You don't have any of the normal things that you have with a mutual fund or even a single stock if you're working for a publicly traded company and they were issuing shares of stock as bonuses or something. Because if this private company just said, hey, we're closing up shop, what is that stock worth? Zero. Zero.

That's frightening. And you've got no control over the decisions they make that could cause them. You don't have any control over that with a publicly traded stock either. But at least there's some outside investor shareholders out there versus just your employees. Private companies that issue stock, I'm not saying they do something wrong. They're not doing anything wrong. But the way you determine if it went up 33% is the way you do your accounting.

And so it, um, I'm not saying they cook the books. That's not my point, but, um, you can choose if you want to hand the profits out to the owners and dividends, you can choose if you want to take the profits and reinvest them into equipment to make the company grow more, um, which would not cause you to grow 33%. So you got to just, you know, what are they doing with the profits? That's called, how are they booking that to cause this? And so, um,

It's not just as simple as, oh, we made a bunch of money. It's not that easy. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

George Campbell, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. He is a number one best-selling author and the co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour on the Ramsey Network. Be sure and check out all of it. In the meantime, you can call us right here, and we'll talk at 888-825-5225. Natalie is with us in Portland, Maine. Hi, Natalie. How are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So this is crazy that you picked up my call because I've been listening to you every day. I am 26 and I'm about $150,000 in debt and I'm just dreaming, trying to figure out how can I change my life? How can I get out of this debt? I just feel like I'm stuck. So I just really need your advice on how I get out of this financial mess.

And I think housing is a big part of my budget that I really can't afford right now. Okay, what are you making? So I actually just got a new job and I'm making 55 base and I'm in sales, medical sales. So I'm going to be able to get commission. Great. So you think it'll be like 100K with your commission? I really hope so because that would make a significant impact on me that I think. Absolutely. I have a boyfriend as well. Okay.

Okay. What is the $150 in debt? So $88 of it is student loans. My monthly payment's fixed and it's not insane. That's about $105 a month. But the credit cards is really where I got into trouble and I had to move unexpectedly. So they just crept up and now I'm in a spot where I can pretty much only pay the minimum on everything. How much do you owe on credit cards?

I would say about $32,000. Okay. And what's the rest? Car? Yeah, I have a car payment. How much is your car debt? It's about, I just got it under $10,000. Okay. That does not total up to $150,000. You're missing about $20,000. I'm missing another $20,000. Okay, sorry. Then I'm probably... Okay, $10,000 on a car, $32,000 on...

Credit card's $88,000 on student loans. That's $120,000. And then I guess I have more credit card debt than that. So you have more like $52,000 in credit card debt? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. I'm sorry. I'm looking at all the numbers here, but I would say it's a little bit less than $150, but it's definitely between $120 and $150. And then my boyfriend also has like some stuff in collections and I have some medical debt. You guys have not combined finances, right? Not completely. What is that? Are you guys just like splitting rent or something?

We pretty much have a bill account, and he puts money in there, and I put money in there every time we get paid. And now we just really have nothing extra. Everything goes to bills, and we're just splitting everything 50-50. And because our rent's pretty expensive, we just don't have any option to not be combining finances at this point. So it sounds like you have combined your finances.

Yeah, for the most part. You put all your income, both of you put all your income into one account and pay both the bills. Yeah. That's the definition of combining finances. Okay, what's your rent? How much are we talking here? It's $2,200 a month. So that's about $1,100 between the two of you? Yeah. They don't know. All right. What were you making before you took this new job?

$52,000. So you got a slight raise plus commission. How long before you start getting commissions? My first commission check is going to be on the 26th, so in a couple weeks or a week from now. Okay, so you're going to get commissions almost immediately. That's good. Okay. My guess is that you guys have been floundering like this for some time because you're... I think they recently moved. I'm sorry?

I would say ever since we moved about a year ago. Moved. And our rent doubled. Moved from where? Just another town. We had to move out of our apartment, and my rent was pretty much locked in at like $1,000 a month. And then the rent went up here and... Doubled. Everything doubled. Mm-hmm. So if you were broke, why did you move to where your rent doubled? Because the landlord was selling the building, so we didn't have a choice. Mm-hmm.

Oh, you had a choice to stay in the town where the rent was cheaper. No, it really wasn't. It was only cheaper because of when I started renting the apartment. Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah. All right. Number one, we do not find people prospering, winning with money, building wealth, being in control, who combine finances with people that they're not married to. Okay. Okay.

Do not combine your finances anymore. You have your income and your bills, period. If you're going to act like you're married, get married. If you're not married, do not combine your finances. If you want to split the rent, each of you put in $1,100 and have a roommate, that's your business.

But I can't find any data in 35 years of doing what I do that says that people shacking up, playing house, acting like they're married when they're not married actually prosper. None of them do. You included. Your financial life sucks. You're having no fun. Lots of stress. Lots of fear.

I think the plan would be to get married. We're very serious. Yeah, bull crap. But obviously that's not really something that we can afford. Bull crap. You'd already be married. You'd already be married. Go get married. Go get married tomorrow. You don't need a $100,000 wedding. I know. I wish I could, but obviously I can't even pay my bills right now. Okay, but I mean, obviously you can get married.

Right? It doesn't cost anything to get married. Does it solve the financial problem? No, it solves the whole situation where now you have a husband and wife that are working together to fix everything. You all are playing with this, and it's not going to work. I don't have any data points in any of the experience that we have or any of the research we have that says what you're doing is going to work. So, you know, you guys think this is working. It's not working.

You just sort of kind of are acting like we might sort of be married. You got to stop it. So anyway, you do what you want to do, kiddo. But that's at the core of this. So you guys either need to get married by Saturday or you need to break your accounts apart by Saturday. Choose one of the two. Then what we're going to do is start listing your debts smallest to largest. You're going to work like a maniac. All you're going to do is work.

and live on nothing. You don't get to go out to eat. You don't get to go on vacation. And you work three jobs or you work your current job so much that the commissions stack up really high. And we're going to start paying these credit cards off a little bit at a time and cut them up tonight. It's time to have plastic surgery right now. Okay? You've got to get scared enough and disgusted enough to change.

Hey, good folks, Dr. John Deloney here. Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So guess what?

Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions.com slash careers. That's ramseysolutions.com slash careers. George Campbell, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us.

If you're thinking about buying a home or selling a home in this weird real estate market, you definitely need a high-quality, high-octane real estate agent in your corner. If you want to know who we have vetted, who we coach and spend time with to make sure they do it the Ramsey way and that they are real high producers, like not somebody just got their license last week but happens to be your friend, oh, yuck.

No, let's get an absolute pro that sells 30 to 300 houses a year. Go to Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agents. Ramseysolutions.com slash agent is how you'll find for free the Ramsey Trusted Agents in your area. And then you can select from among them who best to help you with your next real estate transaction. Kim is with us. Kim is in Cincinnati. Whoops, whoops, whoops, whoops, whoops, whoops. What am I doing?

Where is she? There's Kim. Kim is in Cincinnati. Hi, Kim. How are you? Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call. Dave, this one's mainly for you. You have adult children. My husband and I are... It's that time of the company to update our will, potentially change some things to payable on death, etc. We have two young adult growing children, and...

One party thinks that to flip everything to the children, they'll be fine. They'll know how to handle it. They'll make a decision. One is a little concerned that that might be a little too much. Number one. And number two, even though they're living, you know, pretty frugal lives, if they're not doing some of the basic steps that we took to get us where we are, you know,

I just don't know if that would be in their best interest. So, Conrad, I wanted to, and then you had a call a couple months ago. It was either with Ken or John where it was about, you know, parents trying to control adult children. That is not the case. I actually want to set them up for the best case scenario and have this be a blessing to them. So, wanted to know your thoughts. More money in anyone's life causes them to be more of what they are.

good and bad. Disorganized person becomes chaotic and completely disorganized. A generous person becomes generous, and it's very visible. An angry person becomes more angry. A depressed person becomes more depressed. A kind person and gentle person becomes kinder and more gentle.

And so on. I just didn't, yes, thank you, but I just didn't know of plopping a couple million into a 30-year-old's hand. There's nothing wrong with that if they have the character to carry it, is what I'm saying. But if they're exhibiting problems, if they're prone to overspending and you plop a couple million in their hand, they're going to overspend.

Sure. Yeah, it's not so much that, but just for example, like they're not even putting, they're putting very, very low percent into retirement for themselves. Why? So, because that's what they're choosing to do. I don't, and they've seen us and they saw how we had nothing for several, several years and how finally our behavior changed.

has finally paid off. I mean, we never thought we would get to where we were, but by following the steps and working hard and having... Whatever it is that they're doing right, they will do more of it. Whatever it is that they're doing wrong, they will do more of it when you leave them money. And so if they're doing more wrong than right, you are not blessing them by leaving them a couple million dollars because you're going to cause them to magnify the bad behavior.

If it's minor bad behavior, if your husband thinks that, oh, leaving them a couple million dollars, they'll suddenly become smart and they were dumb. No, they won't. They'll become dumber. No, that isn't the case. They're very, they have good heads on their shoulders. How old are they right now? 30. 39 and 30. And you guys are? I think mid-50s. Okay. And you're not going to die tomorrow, right?

No, but if we would both die, you know, we need to change some things so that it doesn't all go through a wheel and all that. We want to have some payable on death accounts. We've explained to them, you know, that the Roth doesn't, they can keep that and that can be transferable on death versus a traditional, how they would have to pull that out. I believe it's within 10 years and be taxed on that. Things like that. They know the basics. They don't know our total net worth. But like I said, just example, I think,

And I don't expect everybody to do the side hustles and to work as many hours as I do. But when like the basic thing of not even putting 10 or 15% back for yourself, those little things, because I have learned and I have exhibited how that can change your life. And made you a multimillionaire. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So is that the, that you brought that up twice? Is that the only thing they're doing that you think is irresponsible? No.

Yeah, pretty much because I don't like even their emergency funds. They don't even have them in a high-yield savings account, just little things like that. And I feel like I've said all I can say without, you know. Oh, you probably have. Right. So their emergency fund is where? Just in a regular savings account. And let me preface, too. They both have no debt other than they're very modest homes.

Okay. So they're following the basic principles that way. It's just they're missing the chance for compounding and for growth by not just being a little bit more disciplined. Both of them. Yes, sir. In different ways, but yes, sir. And I don't want to sound like if we sit down and say, okay, we'd like to have a talk, that it sounds like I'm trying to control their everyday life and budget or it'd be a threat. We're not leaving you.

if you don't change your ways, because I just don't think I will be able to deliver that well in a way that they're going to interpret this as really... I mean, I know they know I care and we love them. We're very close, but I don't want to do anything. So I obviously want to leave a larger portion to charity than my husband does. And also, we have it set up where now that a portion... Is there any strain between you and their married partners, the in-laws?

Well, I don't think so. We've always asked them to communicate openly with us so that things, you know, don't go unsaid and then grow and cause hurt. And we have grands, and then I don't know how much to specify goes to the grands versus the parents. Okay, so are you asking me what I would do?

I think just because you have adult children, if you think I'm kind of on the right track, do you feel like that? My, my, I think your concerns are valid, but not enough of a concern. I didn't hear anything here that gave me such pause that I would not leave the kids the money. Oh, I'm not saying not leave them money. I'm not, I'm saying all of it. I don't need to, I don't need to leave it to charity. Um, well, we're going to be part of a charity anyway. Okay. Yeah. Do whatever you want to do. That's fine. I don't have any desire to do that. The, um,

In terms of in your situation, I don't hear anything that says that they have invalidated their right to manage millions of dollars. It's not optimal what they're doing, but it's not misbehavior. Yeah, I mean, they're at the 90, 95% implementation, and the other 5% is driving you crazy is what I'm hearing.

Um, because the 5% matters and it's done you good. And I appreciate that. I'm glad for you. And if they live a long life, they could inherit this at 60. So we just don't know. Yeah. There's too many variables here. But I, and it, and it won't be a million. Then it will be several million if they, if it goes that long because of compounding. So, um,

You know, I think for today, I'm going to set the will up and leave the vast majority of it to the kids. If you want to earmark some for charity, that's fine. But I'm not, they haven't invalidated their right to manage money in anything you told me. Um, uh, and I don't see any kind of confrontational thing being, uh, I'm with you. I agree with you on that. Uh,

Kim, that it probably wouldn't be profitable to try to have a talk about all that. I think I simply would just leave it to them. I'm going to side with your husband on this. But you do whatever you want to do. It's your money. It's okay. They're not entitled to it morally, ethically, or legally. It's whatever you choose to do. This is The Ramsey Show.

I know you work hard for your money, and the key to keeping more of it in your pocket is by making a plan for your spending with a budget. And EveryDollar is the budgeting app that I use personally because it's perfect for looking every dollar you make in its little president face and telling it exactly where you want it to go, just like you told that guy in traffic exactly where you wanted him to go. And even better, EveryDollar walks you through the entire budgeting journey so you always know your next right step.

Download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play today. Thank you for joining us, America. George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. Joe is in New York City. Hi, Joe. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hi. My parents have recently taken out two loans to remodel their home in the amount of $55,000. And they're trying to tell me I'm responsible for it. And I want to know if I should agree to this or not. I'm sorry. Why would you be responsible for a loan on their house? I'm confused. Because after I left college, I moved back in with them and I've been with them for the past five years. So? That's how I see it as well.

Was there not room for you, and they had to create an extra room for you, and you requested this? No, it was my same room from high school. In fact, when they were looking to get the home redone, I told them no. I was part of the conversation with the contractors that came to look at the house. How old are you? I'm 31. Why do you still live at home? I have a lot of student debt I'm working through right now. You need to move out. I agree with you. You should have moved out 10 years ago. Okay.

What in the world? I mean, no, you're not obligated morally, legally, ethically, anything here. I have no idea where they got this. I don't understand the conversation even. But I also am not going to tell you to stay there one more minute. You shouldn't be there. It's not good for you. Yeah, I've been paying down my student loan so I can recast it. It doesn't matter. It's not good for you.

Even if it slows down your debt payoff, this is stunting your growth, and it's causing this relationship to be strained, which it may already be too strained to repair. I don't know. What do you do for a living? I work with the local Department of Social Services. What do you make? $60,000 a year. Okay. So your degree is in what? It's in environmental science. Okay. And what do you owe on this degree? Oh, okay.

When I last looked, 110. Okay. Well, it sounds like you probably are going to have to make some career choices as well, and you're probably going to have to pick up some part-time income and be working like a maniac because you're not making progress. Okay? You need to be paying like $30,000, $40,000 a year on the loan to make it go away in two or three years.

And, um, and you can't do that making 60 living in New York city. And so you're probably need a different job and you need six other jobs in addition to that. And let's get your income up and get you out and get you into the world and a sustainable situation. Um, so the, the odd thing is, is the reason you stayed there was to pay down your student loans and you haven't. Ta-da time to go, bud.

Time to go get you a better job, go get you lots of jobs, and get you a different place to live and pay down the student loans for real this time. So that was mythology. That was a lie you told yourself. And you didn't mean to, but lots of people do this. Five years with very little bills, you should have made some serious progress on the debt. And it sounds like it's just you get comfortable living at home. You sort of resort to your old childhood self, and you don't make as much progress as you think. And, you know,

The frustration with the 31-year-old still living in your basement could boil over into a misguided, toxic claim that you owe us money for us taking out debt. You know, like the parents have kind of lost their minds a little bit, and this is their toxic methodology to solve a failure to launch. This is our way of kicking you out because we don't know how to do it.

And we're all really frustrated. So that's probably where some of this is coming from. But to answer your question, no, you do not owe the money. Yes, you should be gone by the end of the month, at the end of next month for sure. And you may need a new job by that time too. And you may need a new state to live in by that time too. You need to live in an affordable area, make a pile of money, and clean up the mess.

Because while you were living in a place with no rent, you made no progress. Or no sustainable progress, no measurable progress. Tom is in Chicago. Hey, Tom, how are you? Dave and George, it is an honor to speak with you both. You too. What's up? I've been renting a townhome for many, many years. And the homeowners, through their property manager, have informed me that they now want to sell homes.

and have asked me if I'd like to purchase it before they list it. I don't know how to handle it in that situation without it being listed. Of course, if it were just a house that I was looking after,

going after, you know, in a normal situation, I'd get a realtor. Do I get a realtor in this situation? Um, since it's not being listed, I don't know if I'm allowed to do that. You're allowed to do anything. It's just a matter of who's going to pay for it and whether you actually need it or not. So you need a mortgage, right? And you need someone to guide you through the contracting process and the mortgage process and the appraisal process and all of that. Are they giving you a price on the property?

Yes. They gave me a price of $330 based on some comps that the property manager pulled up, who is a realtor. I didn't like the comps. I didn't agree with those comps. They were in an area not very close to me, and when I looked at them, the homes were much nicer than...

than this home, so I don't know how to combat that. So they have a real estate agent. It's called a property manager. It's a licensed real estate agent. Yes. And they're probably going to list it with this person.

Eventually, but they're asking me before they list it. Yeah, but what's the benefit to you? There's no benefit to you before they list it. You're not getting a deal. There's no bargain. I guess the benefit is that no one else would be able to make an offer on it. Oh, yeah, okay. I mean, if you had a transaction you were comfortable with and you can go through and get your mortgage and everything, you can go to a title company, get a contract drawn up,

and do this. I think this transaction is so far from happening that you probably do need a pro in your corner to help you navigate the negotiation.

and then help you navigate the closing, help you navigate the appraisal, help you navigate the getting of the mortgage and all the different things, all of things you don't know how to do. But if you had all those things already lined up, you could. You don't have to have a real estate agent, but you can. In this case, I think you'd benefit from one. And just say, you know, if they list it, typically what happens is,

The listing agent, in this case the property manager, they're going to put a 6% commission on it or something about like that. And then the agent that represents the buyer is going to split that with the selling agent typically. That's a normal transaction. And so, you know, if you get a real estate agent to represent you and they work with the selling agent before it actually goes on the market but a commission is still paid, then

It didn't cost you anything. It cost them something. And, you know, let me tell you, if you just buy it right now, I think this agent is going to get both of the commissions. They're probably going to charge the seller a full commission. So, yes, the answer is I'd go get a real estate agent. Yes. In your situation, I would. Yes.

I mean, it's kind of borderline, but I think there's a lot of... A, there's another real estate agent already involved. Okay? B, you don't like the comps, so you got some negotiating to do. C, you got to have somebody walk you through the closing process and the mortgage getting process and the appraisal process. So all of those things tell me, yeah, I put a real estate agent in your corner. Yeah.

It's just worth it for the stress factor at this point. Well, and the expertise to guide you through a journey that you've never been on. I might negotiate and save you $30,000 to where it was worth it. RamseySolutions.com slash agent will help you find a Ramsey-trusted agent in your area to help you do that. This is The Ramsey Show.

Our Scripture of the Day, Ecclesiastes 5.5. It is better that you should not vow than that you should vow and not pay. Ooh. John Adams said, there are two ways to conquer and enslave a country. One is by the sword. The other is by debt. Ask the Chinese. That's good foreshadowing.

Just got a little bit of a conspiracy theory chill. About 300 years later, and here we are, trillions in debt to other countries, Dave. There you go. Scary. Bradley's in Chicago. Hey, Bradley, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello. I want to thank you both so much for having me. I know you hear this all the time, but you've definitely made a positive change in my life. Well, thank you, sir. How can we help today?

Yeah, absolutely. I made the decision to loan out money to family and friends of mine in the total sum of just over $8,000. And as time goes on, given the lifestyle that they lead, it's starting to leave a sour taste in my mouth a little bit. So I guess my question is, how do I

hold them accountable to, you know, make me whole and pay me back without straining myself

the friendships and, um, my marriage. Cause I just got married in November and my wife, um, but you know, this was before we got married, but she had vouched for her cousin as somebody for me to loan out money to that's three of the eight grand. And it's been over a year and I've only seen, you know, 500 of it since. Um, so what is your, what is your income?

Yeah, just over $100. I sell software, so it's a little bit variable, but it's been over $100 for the past three years. Why did you become the lender? Was it word of mouth, hey, this guy will loan you some money, go to him? So my wife's cousin originally owed money to who is now my mother-in-law, and the cousin didn't like how...

difficult or tough to work. It just, it sounded like the mother-in-law was trying to hold her accountable and put her feet to the fire and was complaining to my wife about it. And my wife kind of turned to me and said, Hey, I know you've got some money. Can we help her out? Um, and then my other friend just kind of knew that I was in a good position. Um, and I, I, he didn't ask me for the money. I just knew that he was in trouble. Um,

Um, so I decided to give him five of the eight, but at the same time he, you know, it has a Corvette, he has two cars, both, you know, in that on those and live the life. You knew that when you gave him the money, right? Yeah, I did. I didn't know that when I gave him the money. So, um, you're probably not going to like my answer. Oh no. Okay. I think you've learned a very harsh lesson.

Never loan people money. If you want to help people, give them some money, but don't loan them any money because it changes your relationship with your friend and your wife's cousin to master-slave. You're the master, they're the slave. Even if you're a nice master, you're still a master. The borrower is slave to the lender 100% of the time. And that's what you're feeling here is that these people are unappreciative people

They're out of control. But guess what? They were both of those things before you gave them money. And you just got to now experience it personally. So my opinion is, is that you wrote an $8,000 check to the tuition and for tuition to the School of Life. And the School of Life just gave you a passing grade on never loan people money. You have passed that class now.

You paid the stupid tax. So if I woke up in your shoes with your situation, I would tell your wife. First thing I do sit down with her and say, okay, I've made the decision that I made a mistake when I loaned your cousin money. And when I loaned my friend money, if we were going to help them, we should have given them money. So go ahead and understand that from this point forward, I will never loan money to a family member again.

As long as you see me breathing, that will not occur. And you and your wife get on the same page about that. And then I'd call up your friend and say, you know, if you can pay me, that would be nice. But if you don't pay me, I want you to know I'm just going to forgive the debt because our friendship is more important. And tell the cousin the exact same thing. And I'll give you about a 98% chance you get no money.

But by the way, even if you don't do this, I'm going to give you a 98% chance you get no money. You loaned broke people money. Don't be shocked they don't pay you. I would forgive the debt and walk away. This is costing you more angst and soul tax. It's taxing your brain. You are thinking about it. They aren't.

So you're worried about straining the relationship? It's already strained. Yeah. I don't know that it's ever going to go back to the way it was, even if you— If they came in and wrote you a check today and both of them paid you, you still don't have any respect for either one of these people, right? I don't know if I'd say that. I don't. I don't have any respect for either one of them. It's not going to go back to the way it was before you lent them money.

As soon as you offer that money, the relationship changed. I mean, it sounds like your friend is a person who just spends too much and is out of control as a typical American. And it sounds like your wife's cousin's a complete parasite. And Bradley's a sweet guy. And people are going to go, well, Brad, don't give me some money. I'll be fine. Yeah. And buddy, I would, I would end the bank of Bradley.

And as a people pleaser myself. I'm closing up shop on the bank of Bradley. We're done with that puppy. That's a boundary that people pleasers, which I'm one of them, recovering people pleaser, they have to put up the boundary and go, as nice of a guy as I am, I'm not going to do it. I don't do that. The only thing I can do is give you money, and I don't have any right now to give you. That's it. I love the quote, choose guilt over resentment. And right now, Bradley's dealing with the other side, resentment. Choose guilt that you couldn't and you didn't versus the resentment of I did and I regret it. Yeah, yeah.

If I woke up in your shoes, sir, having done what you've done, I would just walk away. I think it's costing you more than $8,000 in your soul and in your relationship. And you're even a tiny bit resentful towards your wife for asking you to do this for her cousin who's a parasite. Yeah. And I'm going to put an end to every bit of that. I'm just going to say, oh, I'm done. I don't think about it anymore. No more money.

I have zero expectation. And the secret to happiness is low expectations. It's like my golf game. It's working out so far. I'm not going to get mad about something that I have no expectation is actually going to occur. That's pretty easy. You know what I mean? Because that's what happens. And if it only costs you $8,000 to learn this lesson,

It was cheap. That was cheap. That was cheap stupid tax. Very cheap stupid tax. Dave's done it with way more zeros on the end. Yeah, I definitely have done it with a lot of, I've learned a lot dumber things and a lot bigger things and, you know, and, you know, it's the never again principle.

Once you do something dumb, you say, okay, that's in the never again bucket. We never again do that. And that way I'll never lose. I may lose money another way, but I won't lose money that way. Never again. Well, the hardest part is not forgiving the other person. It's forgiving yourself because you just think, gosh, how did I do something so dumb? And I can't let this go. And it causes anger inside of you. That's a difficult thing. It is. It is. And it's like,

I mean, because if you look at it objectively, neither one of these characters were worthy of a loan. They weren't. I mean, they're not. Who would loan these people money if you weren't? Well, I'm guessing a bank wouldn't lend them money. No, they wouldn't. Which is why they went to him. Exactly. The Bank of Bradley. It's got a nice ring to it, honestly. It's closed, though. Closed for business. It's no longer open for business. Oh, we liquidated the assets. It's got a little sign on the front, like the Persian rug place, going out of business.

80% off. Going out of business. And yet somehow still too expensive. 14 years later, we're still going out of business. And you still got ripped off on that rug. That's it. Not fool me once. Bradley, I'm sorry. I hate it for you, man, but that's what I would do. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. ♪

Hey, folks, Dave Ramsey here. You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring. You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind, and that's EveryDollar. The EveryDollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money. Start budgeting with EveryDollar for free right now. Just go to RamseySolutions.com slash EveryDollar and download the app today. That's RamseySolutions.com slash EveryDollar.