Do You Have a Plan For Your Money?
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, Jade Warshaw, is my co-host today. We welcome you, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5255.

225. And for that matter, even if you're not in America, wherever you are listening and watching, we appreciate you. Jade, as I was traveling, we spent a little time in Scotland, a little time in Turkey, and it was a joyous thing for Sharon and I that the people that did recognize me were all under 30.

Oh, that's great. And like, for instance, the girl checking us in at our really, really nice restaurant the last night we were in Scotland, we walked up and my wife said, you know, we've got a reservation for Ramsey. And the lady said, okay. And I said, we're running a little bit early, ma'am, but we'd love to go ahead and be seated. And her head snaps up and she goes, you're that guy on Instagram. Yeah.

And she's like 24 years old, probably, something like that. And I can't do the Scottish accent, but it was great. And so you're that. I wish I could. I had it down for a minute. I know, I know. For a little bit there. But yeah, it was. And she's, I don't know your name, but I like your stuff. Wow. Okay. There it is. I love that she knows you from Instagram. So maybe it's not just America. There we go. 888-825-5225. Isaac is in Bangor, Maine. Isaac, how are you?

Hi, Dave. How's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up? I just have a question. Me and my fiancee are planning to get married at the end of the year, and I just want some advice on how to combine our finances and assets. Okay. When we began our relationship, she already owned a home, and I did not. I was looking to buy a home when we first started dating, but I never did.

And I have some savings and I'm in no debt after following your plan and listening to your show. What's the plan that you guys will move into her house since she already has one? Well, we already live in her house together now. Got it. Okay. But I guess my question is, should we sell her house and buy a property together? Yeah.

Not necessarily. It's just whatever house you want to live in. Most states, and you can check on Maine as far as the real estate goes, most states you have a marital interest regardless of whose name is on the deed in your personal residence.

So, for instance, in Tennessee, if I put the property in my name, my wife is automatically the half owner, even if her name is not on the deed, on our personal residence. Now, not on investment property and other things, but on a personal residence. I'm not sure if that's true in Maine. You'd have to check on that. But it could be that just by the fact you got married, you've got that asset transferred to both of you. As far as the other stuff, we just recommend changing the name on the accounts to both of you.

Yeah. Okay. And having one account together, having the accounts together. Yeah. Everything's combined. You have one checking account that you operate the household out of and that you both

have access to and that you both are in agreement with on your budgeting that's the you know the part but as far as the other things like if you've got a mutual fund account it's got your name on it or her name on it just you know email and change the name on the account the owner of the account to two people um and you just update your miscellaneous accounts around like that

Right. She used some of her time to purchase her house. She used some sort of assistant plan with her retirement to purchase her house. So I guess she would like to pull some of her equity out to help her in her retirement sort of get back up to where it should be. I would not do that. You would not do that? No, I would not do that. No. Okay. I would leave that alone. Let's just get started and make sure we're out of debt. We're walking up the baby steps. Yeah.

Have your emergency fund in place and then start saving for retirement. You've got plenty of time. You're going to be okay. And just like checking through those things that might have a beneficiary listed and making sure that it's the way you want it now that you're married. Yeah. All your life insurance policies or anything like that that has a beneficiary. 401Ks.

You won't be able to put her name on your 401k or vice versa, but you can put the beneficiary on there to be her on yours and you on hers and so forth, that kind of stuff. That's what you want to comb through and just make sure you got all the tangles out. Amy's in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hi, Amy. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

I have a question because of an early retirement. My husband and I are both law enforcement, and I did 28 and a half years and then retired. He's 10 years younger than me, so therefore he has seven years left to do. So he's still employed and I am not.

So, but I, we get a pension from my portion. My question, my question is, um, we have enough money for our household to not touch my TSP or other investments that I've done. Um, but should I be investing some of my, I don't feel like I'm contributing anymore.

So should I be investing part of my pension back into a Roth, or should I still be contributing? Or since I'm not going to touch it... Where are you guys on the baby steps? We paid everything off in 2020. House and everything? Everything.

everything way to go that's awesome zero zero debt good for you there was no place that there was no place to travel to so now i don't know what to do yeah i've got too much money now dave okay um way to go i'm proud of you yeah thank you so here's the thing there's three things you can do with money when you're in baby step seven or for that matter anytime you can enjoy it you can give it and you can invest it and you ought to always be doing all three

And so I want to make sure you're enjoying some of your income at this stage. You've worked hard for this and that you're being generous with some of it and that you're investing some of it. And someone always that, you know, early on in my career, people would ask, how much should I save? And I'm like, how wealthy do you want to be?

You know, the more you save, the more you're going to have. I mean, it's pretty simple. So there's not a penalty. I mean, there's nothing wrong with you reinvesting, taking some of your pension money and just starting to do some investing with it. There's nothing wrong with that at all. I'm afraid that I don't think that we'll touch it, at least until he's

finished working and then probably not. But since I'm 52, he's 42 right now. Um, we're going to retire well before most people retire, which is awesome. Not a bad problem. Well, and you're probably have an encore career. You're probably gonna have some other stuff you do.

Most people don't quit at 50-something years old and never work again for 40 years. It's a lot of years to not be doing anything. I mean, you might not have to do a nine-to-five or a grind, but you might start a small business that you've always wanted to start, or you might start this or whatever. You don't have to be a Walmart greeter to retire.

I mean, if I were in your shoes, I definitely, if I didn't need the money coming in from the pension, if I were in your shoes, I'd want to invest it, especially if I can get a better rate of return for it. And if I don't need it, that's, I mean, that's what I would do. I think you ought to budget some of it for fun and some of it for generosity and some of it for investing. And I don't care what the percentages are. You decide that.

Okay. Well, I wasn't, we weren't eligible to do a Roth, but now that I'm in retirement, I'm guessing our income will go down. We would be. That would be the smart move. You are eligible to do a Roth. You can do a backdoor Roth, even if you're over 200.

Yeah, I do, Ross, and I'm way over 200. So, yeah, you can sit down with your SmartVestor Pro. They can show you how to do that. But that's a small amount of money. You're talking about more money than that that you can have fun with and that you can be generous with and that you can invest. So, yeah, I don't want you to do it because you feel like you're contributing. I want you to do it because it's my plan. Yeah, 100%. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Well, guys, time is running out to book your cabin on the Live Like No One Else cruise. That's right. We're going in March 22nd through the 29th. All the Ramsey personalities plus a bunch of other big-time folks like Stephen Curtis Chapman. And, man, I got to tell you, we've got comedians coming. It's quite a lineup. Dina Carter, famous comedian.

country music star, remember Strawberry Wine. We're going to Turks and Caicos, Puerto Rico, St. Thomas, the Bahamas, and all the Ramsey personalities, including me and my wife Sharon, will be on there the entire week. It is a high-end, very nice cruise. This is Holland, America. This is not the cheap stuff.

And because you really shouldn't do this, we don't want you there unless you're in Baby Step 4 and beyond. Because you should be getting out of debt and building your emergency fund. But if you want to mark your success, milestone your success with the Live Like No One Else cruise, because we teach you to live like no one else so that later you can go on a cruise. I'll be at the spa. You will? Oh, yeah. All right. That's where we can find you. The sanctuary. You and Sharon getting your nails and hair and face done. Yes. And all that stuff. And...

they don't have enough Bondo in that spa for my face. So I'll be, um, I'll be cruising the buffet or something, I guess. But, um, yeah,

Yeah, so anyway. Hey, it's going to be fun. We'd love to have you. There's just a few cabins left, and you can get yours. You can mark it with $600 and come back later. And that really puts you in line for upgrades if you want a better cabin if somebody drops out later. Yeah. And so it's the way you get the thing. It's better than being on a waiting list. You go ahead and get you a cabin. Make plans to be there March 22nd through the 29th. RamseySolutions.com slash cabins.

cruise baby it's the only place you can go to see the only place you can go see me and george's sunny and share act oh no that's a joke i hope it's a joke have y'all been y'all good okay y'all didn't do something that i don't know about no no no it's a joke george is still working on his share his share costume you guys are not right all right zach is in indianapolis hi zach welcome to the ramsey show

Hi, Dave. Hi, Jay. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

Uh, me and my wife are buying a business. We bought a franchise business. And my question was, she's going to be running the store and we're going to be living off of my income like we are now. And my question was, is it a good idea for her not to take a salary the first year, maybe the first two years or for her take a salary? Because I'm concerned that she's going to get burnt out and not feel like

She's being rewarded enough if she doesn't take a salary. You shouldn't buy this. If the person running it is going to get burnt out because they don't get a salary, you shouldn't be running a business. Yeah, you're right. That's my concern, but we're very passionate about this type of business. Then it doesn't matter if she gets a salary. Okay. You need to talk to her about this. Has she got that kind of passion? No.

Because if she doesn't, if she's buying this thing to have a job and it's going to be all twisted up if she doesn't get a salary. Yeah, they just get a job. You're doing the wrong thing then. Okay. I'm serious, man. Business is hard. No, no. What kind of business is it? It's a pet supplies store and small live animals.

Okay. So it's a fun place to be. Okay. She's excited about it. We're excited about it, but I'm just... Well, what's the pro forma? Are you going to be profitable in the first year? Not in the first year. Second year, yes. Then why would you take a salary if you're not profitable? How can you? Well, you're going to borrow more money to pay her salary? Be in the red, yeah, the first year. How are you covering the red? We have a loan.

We're taking out a SBA loan for all of it. How much was it? Can I just ask, what did you put into this loan-wise? We are putting, so the loan's for $800. We are putting in $200 of our own money. So you're a million in? To sell goldfish? $800,000 worth of goldfish? Cat food, dog food, grooming, and live animals. Wow.

And you think that in year two, you'll be profitable? Yes. Yeah. So according to all their FDB for all the stores, there's many stores across. There's over 600 stores across. Listen, I hope you are. I hope you prove us wrong.

Yeah, but here's the answer. Okay, number one, I'm duty-bound to love you enough to tell you the truth and say, I think you need to reconsider this. You're not going to. So the answer to your question is, should you borrow more money in order to pay your wife a salary instead

You're borrowing money to pay your wife. No, it's not a payment. It's not, you know, she's not making a salary. You're just taking a withdrawal from the bank to give her money and call it a salary. No, we're not doing that. That's dumb. That's ridiculous. Absolutely not in business. When you own a small business, you take money home when you make a profit and you don't

Wow. Anyway, yeah. So no, until you're profitable, you don't take money home out of a business. That's part of running a small business. It's part of being an entrepreneur. And you've got the ability to live on your salary. That's good. I wish you would not go

$800,000, $600,000 worth of debt in order to open a pet store. And by the way, I really wish you wouldn't. You can see how ridiculous, like if you just change the format of this ever so slightly, if you went out and got a job and they said the way you get paid is you go down to the bank and you ask for a loan and that's how you get your paycheck, you'd never take the job because you're like, that's not a check. That's me going into debt. Yeah. Period. Cassidy's in Chicago. Hi, Cassidy. How are you?

Hi there, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, I have a specific question regarding myself and my boyfriend. So I am a Christian woman who is looking to get married before I live with someone. And we have been dating for the past three years. We found a house in between our two families. It's $850 for rent. He will be living there and we're trying to figure out our timeline. I wanted him to prove himself. So

Prove himself in what way? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. How's he got to prove himself? That he's able to have a job in this new location between families and that he's able to pay this rent first so that we're able to move in together once we're married. So you have a concern that the guy you're thinking of marrying does not want to work. Correct. Why? Why do you have that concern? Because I...

Because in the past, he hasn't had a job for the past year. He's worked part-time at a location, but he said he's willing to get back together to prove that to me. Was that because of school? And I said, well, then you need to be on your own. What was that? Was it because of school or anything? How old are you? I'm 23. I just graduated with my master's degree, and he is 25. Okay. So you're saying he's out of school, graduated. Why is he not working? He's working part-time at a radio station for ministry. Why?

Is he not working? He's a 25-year-old man. Why is he not working a job? That's been my question. Oh, okay. Okay. All right. And then your other question for us was what? Should my name be on the lease? Of a guy that doesn't work much? No. No. You're not married yet. Not a chance. Right. Right. Does he want that? That validates that.

Is that what he wants to do? He wants to be married. Yes. Right. But I understand he wants to be married. But I'm saying while you're not married, does he want you to put your name on the lease? Is that what he's asking for? That is what he's asking for. And I said, you need to be able to have a job and prove that you can do that. Yeah. And you need to be married. Like, that's the biggest thing. You don't put your name on leases with people you're not married to.

Yeah, because let's pretend even if he was working, he had a steady job, everything was good. If you weren't married, I'd still say don't put your name on the lease. Exactly.

Okay. I've watched your videos in the past, so that's what I was thinking, but that helps to solidify that. And even being in this relationship. Let me tell you, if your daughter called you and told you she was considering marrying the same guy that you, a guy like the guy you're talking about, you would tell her to even be stronger than you have been. Okay. I don't see this...

It's a red flag. I'll be the old dad guy here. I don't think this is going to work out because I think you're too sharp to put up with him. That's my guess. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Go to Yrefy.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be available in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Paige in Delaware. My parents live in a different state than my husband and I. Everything is fine when they visit, but when they return home...

Y'all are weird.

Yeah. Y'all are weird. That's shocking to me. That's just both of you are weird. The fact that you ask somebody else to pay for stuff when they're staying in your home, regardless of who it is, is weird. It's shocking. Have a little hospitality. They shouldn't have to buy their own freaking toilet paper. And if you're going to have a meal for a friend or a relative that's staying with you, you pay for the meal. Yeah. And your parents are weird. They go home and send you a bill? Yeah. That's weird. Yeah. I agree.

I'm shocked. I truly am. It doesn't make sense. The only thing that I could think of where this made sense is if they came and lived with you for three years or something, but there's no indication. And even still, I... I have never stayed at someone's home and they asked me to pick up something at the store and sent them a bill. I can't imagine. They let me stay at their home. And I've never stayed at someone's home

who expected me to pay for something but I always try to leave with let them with more than when I came it's like how do you keep a tally of that both sides of this grow a little generosity yeah that's what's at stake here it's wow

When someone stays in your homepage, you should furnish everything and take care of it. You should not ask someone to pay for it, period. I don't care who it is. Oh, by the way, parents, when you stay in someone's home and they ask you to pick something up, pick up twice as much and leave it as a gift to say thank you for letting us stay there and don't send a bill. Y'all are weird. Yeah. Listen, if my family comes in, I'm the type, I want to give you a little care box. I want the stuff to be in the room. Yeah.

And I don't want you to think of anything. When you come to dinner, you bring a bouquet of flowers and a bottle of wine. Yes. Hello. Wow. God, man. Wow. Y'all are weird. To itemize. You ate an apple yesterday. Put that on the bill. Half a roll of toilet paper has been invoiced here. Toiletries. I'm just saying. Wow. Y'all are weird. I'd love to see that receipt. I'd love to see what it looks like. Half a bag of Tostitos. Oh.

You know, first time I got the bill.

The next time they came to visit, I'd be going Motel 6 over, buddy. Yeah, you may as well stay in a hotel. Might as well go over there and you settle up with those people. There's free breakfast. They have free breakfast at the hotel. You get those powdered eggs, man, 6 o'clock in the morning. That coffee that's been watered down. That orange juice that never saw an orange. Man. You just stay yourself right over there, baby. Wow. Wow. Y'all are weird. Tracy's in Boise, Idaho. Hey, Tracy, what's up?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. I have a question. My dad passed away in March of 2023. I'm sorry. My sister and I were originally, thank you, were originally co-executors. A month after my dad passed, things got really...

volatile. And I removed myself. I had my attorney draw up a letter to remove me from my dad's estate, let my sister be. And I've had no contact with them since just via a few texts, a few emails, very generic. I received an email on September 3rd from my sister's attorney, the probate attorney, asking me to sign a document regarding my dad's home had been on the market for over a year and had not sold myself.

Siblings want to close out the estate and put a renter in there, which is not what my dad's will says. But because I'm an heir, I have to sign this document. My question to you is, if I sign this document, am I removing all legal representation that my remaining three siblings are just going to, you know, honor my dad's will and divide things equally?

up according to the will basically my dad's will is very generic was sell all my assets pay all my debts divide everything by four nothing has been done correctly in my dad's will nothing has and I've just let it happen I mean I stepped away so I'm fine with that but my fear and I and my husband and I are in baby step seven we're building a home for cash okay what do you want to do with your share of the home are you going to just turn it over to them abandon it abandon it and walk away

I think that's an option. Okay, if you're going to do that, then you can sign the letter. If you want your share of the home, you can't sign the letter. You don't need the money. Thank you. What is it? We don't really need the money. Nope, nope, we don't. And that's kind of where we're at right now. If we sign the letter, we're walking away from it.

Maybe once it sells and the debt, there was still a mortgage on it, we might be talking 200,000 profit. It's divided by four. We're talking 50,000 each or less or less each. Yeah. Mm hmm.

There are some other assets that's not accounted for, and I don't even care. Is it worth it? Listen, you're at your wit's end. We can hear it in your voice. You've gone around and around on this. You've got to decide if you want to reenter the battle or you want to walk away.

So my position is, and which is what I told the probate attorney, I want the house left on the market and it's sold. Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's what the will called for. That's what the will called for. The executor of the will is supposed to execute, that's the name executor, the will. They don't get to make this up. Oh, they are. And your sister's been making it up. And so if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to either go,

screw it it's not worth it y'all just take the money I don't want it and I'm gonna walk completely away and never think about it again or I'm gonna just tell this guy when you guys sell the house I'll take my fourth and no I'm not signing anything until the house is sold well I feel like in many ways you made that decision when you walked away from being an executive though no

No, she didn't. She didn't lose her rights. She just got out of the fight. I'm not saying that she lost her rights, but you clearly were worn slap out and were like, whatever. No, she didn't want to stay in the day-to-day rough and tumble. I didn't. That's different than. I didn't. Yeah. Yeah. I understand what you're doing. So, you know, the thing is, here's what you're really struggling with is you know how pissed off everybody's going to be when you do this.

Well, they already are because they've dropped the house below, um, at some, or right now the house is left below appraisal or, or value because there's no more money to pay the mortgage. So I would just fine. I don't care, but I don't want it taken off the market. My other conflict, Dave, but this is my sister is also the executor and the realtor. And this is one of our first house sales, which is another reason why. She has the house listed.

Yes. Oh, how many times can we spell conflict of interest? Exactly. Okay, I just wanted to make sure, like, that's my thinking. I don't know how this attorney has kept his law license if he's allowing this. Wow. Wow. This probate attorney, he should be going, no, ma'am, you cannot do that.

The attorney needs to be, oh my gosh. Is the attorney one of your siblings? No. You guys are confirming everything that my husband and I have discussed. We've been following you since 2008. We became 100% debt free in 2020. Here's the thing. I would just say, listen, I'm not angry. I'm not angry about this. This is not about revenge. I'm just asking simply, very kindly and calmly that you guys do what the will says.

And we really ought to have an... Do I need to hire an attorney? No, you just don't need to sign it. Okay. If you want an attorney, you could go get one to get advice. I'm not an attorney. But if you just refuse to sign it and say, my instructions as one of the heirs is for you to execute the will properly, and that means the house needs to be sold, not rented. I do not want to be partners with these people 10 years from now in this house. I don't want the liability. No, thank you. Period.

If they want to buy me out, they can do that too, by the way. That's a great idea. But they can't even pay the payments, so they're not going to buy anybody out. This is the Ramsey Show.

Hey, when you go against what society thinks is, quote, normal, like avoiding debt, for example, it might seem weird at first, and that is totally okay. We want you to be weird if that means doing things intentionally, including how you spend your health care dollars. And one way to be intentional is with Christian health care ministries. See,

Jade Walshaw, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Folks, you know what causes relatives to get in a fight over a will?

or over an estate, most of the time it's the person's fault that died. Because you did not tell everybody how to freaking behave before you died. So you do the will, you read the will to the whole family, or you tell them what it all says when you do the will, and then you tell them what it means.

So, for instance, those guys that were just there, you go to Mama Bear Legal Forms, you do a basic, she said it had a very basic will, sell everything and divide it four ways. That was his basic will. You could do that easily at MamaBearLegalForms.com. So he's got the will. That was good because most people don't even do that. That's right. That's right. You do that first and then you tell everyone. At Thanksgiving dinner, I just finished my will. Not at Thanksgiving, Dave. That does not make the turkey go down. Well, the next day with beer and football. There we go. I don't care, but...

or later on in the afternoon. Sometime you gather the whole brood up and you say, brood, this is what you are going to do when I die with my stuff. Okay. I'm listening. I am 40 years old. I've got three kids and a husband. We just did our will. Do we do this now or do we wait till we get a little bit older? Who is being instructed in the will?

The people that are going to take care of your kids. Yeah. So you obviously got to talk to them. Well, of course. Okay. Yes. And if you're leaving a family trust that's going to be managed by someone, both the trustee and the people taking care of your kids need to know what that is. Yes. Now, the four-year-old doesn't need to have

input sure or the weight of the decisions but i'm talking about the grown-ups that are going to be involved everybody so when when our kids were your kids age when the ramsey kids were little we had a trust set up upon our death the assets all dump into a trust a family trust okay and the family trust was beat up managed a certain way and the trustee was different than the person raising the kids that's right and the trustee was going to send money out of there to the kiddos um

in a sense essentially child support yeah monthly stipend to for because you're raising my kids it shouldn't cost you anything thank you and so uh and if they needed money for college a car or a medical issue they could get some more money that was the direction of the trustee both the trustee knew that and the custodian of the children knew that that's right and the other relatives

uncles and aunts and so forth also knew who the trusted that are uninvolved but they know so that they stay freaking uninvolved yeah so there's essentially two conversations you're having you're having the initial one with the adults who are part of this then as you age and as your kids get older if you're leaving them anything substantial then you then you bring them into the conversation now we have a very detailed thing these days if dave dies this year meeting once a year what a weird day yeah weird meeting

my monty python i'm feeling much better it's just a flesh wound meeting there's turkey there's turkey no we don't do it we don't do this at thanksgiving it's too complicated yeah but i'm just saying you go over it and then the brothers and sisters are all mad well do you not think that or if they are then it's just because they've got a screw i was gonna say there's probably part of this too that if you've got any bit of like entitlement or grief or greed or whatever that is yeah that's

That could still play a part even if you do everything right from the beyond. But at least everybody said it out loud. That's right. Okay. And here's the thing. You put two sisters as co-executors of the will. This guy did. And you tell me this dad did not know that these two were going to go at each other's throat. Yeah, that wasn't good. I mean, you could do it with some two sisters. Actually, my two daughters could do that. Yeah, I could do that with my sister. Denise and Rachel could do that. But this dad has to know these two enough to know that this ain't going to work. Yeah. Yeah.

Because one of them is going to flip their lid. And guys, come on. Don't set up things to where your estate causes a wedge to be driven in your family that takes people 25 years to speak again to each other. Set up your estate to be a blessing to the next generation. A godly man leaves an inheritance to his children's children. Okay. Let me ask you about this.

You may have heard me say this before. Is there ever a time where the will or the estate is as written and the people who, you know, decide this is what was said, but we think we should do something else instead? Case in point, I always say when Sam married me, the way that his grandfather's estate was, was that he had to marry someone Jewish in order to get the money.

And so, and I'm looking at you and I'm thinking you're not. I ain't, I ain't, I ain't. And so, you know, it was him and a couple of other cousins. And he was the first to say, hey, I think that if he had met her, he would have changed his mind. And so over time, but over time, the cousins changed it. And they got the wife to say, you know what? I think you're right. And she was the executor. Well, then that's everybody. That's interesting. But the only way that happens is,

The legal document has to be overridden by a unanimous vote. And it was. It was the wife. That's what it amounts to. No, it was unanimous. The brothers, sisters, cousins, the wife. Oh, yeah, yeah. Everybody ended up signing off on it. Yes. They have to. You're right. They have to. Because otherwise you don't have a change. No, you don't. And so, yeah, I mean, you can do that. You can do that. But that's the only way. If one person said, no, Papa said that, and that's the way it is. That's right. Or whatever your Jewish grandfather's name is, right? Zadie. Okay. Zadie said it, and that's the way it is. Yeah.

sorry we love we love jade but but still that's what he said no you're right all the cousins had to sign and yeah yeah okay interesting wow that's interesting huh yeah i don't mind that but but yeah it's that's unusual isn't it yeah most of the time somebody ends up fighting like that last call so folks read your will while you're alive if people are going to be pissed off you should have the pleasure of being involved

I'm just saying. That's the way it is. All right. Now, Romeo is in Phoenix. Hi, Romeo. How are you? Better than I deserve, as you say. How are you doing today? Just the same, sir. How can I help? I'm calling because I am a fan of your show. I found it roughly about two months ago. I just downloaded the dollar app, and I started doing my budgeting.

Every dollar at my apologies. And so my question is, should I stop paying my loans and should I diverse my money into a business where I think if I make money faster with a business, I could pay off my loan faster? Or should I be in debt? Or should I, I'm sorry, should I pay off my loan? What do you make a year now?

I make 30k a year on my main job and I do lift on the side which I make my 9600 additional for the year. Hey this sounds really familiar to me. How much student loan debt like how much debt do you have total? I have in total I have 24,000. Okay that's not too too bad. What are you talking about spending to start a business?

Just for initial costs for the equipment, it's a production studio. So I just tell you, as you know, the production equipment is pretty pricey. And so I have an investor. I have a business plan and investment. I have a brick and mortar. My investors are paying for the overhead and everything. It's just we only need the equipment and you're off and we're ready to like jumpstart. And so that's why... I'm sorry. There's not a way to start...

That feels like too much to start with. That's a major investment. What can you do with that skill set that you can use what you have to make more money than $30,000 a year or $39,000 a year? That's what I'm looking for. I was working at a podcast studio, which they were the best and they were

not the best management, not to throw shade at them or anything, but they actually encouraged me to create my own production company, my own production company, because that's all the way they're treating their guests. Right, but you can do that. My point is you can do that without all the bells and whistles. There's so many podcasts out there who need producers and editors, and you can go in so many different routes that doesn't require you to buy all the stuff, to have brick and mortar, to have investors. That's fine.

If you did that, that would be further, further down the line. I think right now there's ways that you could probably make thousands of dollars a month and get this debt paid off very quickly without you having to invest much of anything. I have been working with a few comedians. I do have a few ties to the comedy show. Yeah, I do. And I have been working on comedy specials. Yes. I would do all of that without a production studio. Yes. There's so much work. There's two million podcasts.

I would not open a production studio right now. Certainly not brick and mortar. I've got a bunch of them, but they're for our use only. If I thought I had to make a living renting out production studios, I would no, no thank you. Market's too flooded, dude. Not what I'd drop money in.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Walsh, our number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. The phone number is 888-825-5225.

You jump in. Matt is with us in Portland, Maine. Hi, Matt. How are you? I'm well. I'm well. And I appreciate you and your entire team taking my call today. Thank you. Our pleasure. How can we help? So I've got more of a, I guess, a time problem than a money problem. Although time is money and they go hand in hand.

So I have a full-time career that I've been working for about 15 years now. And in about nine more years, I'll be able to retire with a fairly decent pension. I'll be 46 years old and I'll make about 50 grand a year to sit on my couch for the rest of my life, which I don't think is the worst. But while I've had this career, I've also started some other things. I've got a side gig, a side business that does about

one and a half to $2 million a year. Um, and I also have some real estate investment that totals, uh, about $3 million, um, that I owe about 250,000 on. Um, I got a lot going on. I, I, I like real estate investing. I want to get into more of it. Um, but my work schedule of approximately 80 hours a week is definitely taking the toll, uh,

on the family. Um, and my wife and I had a serious conversation the other day. We have a 10 month old baby and she is really looking for me to spend more time with them at home. And of course I couldn't agree more. Um, but I got a lot going on and one of the things I was looking at dropping was that career of mine that, uh, only pays me about 65,000 a year or so, um, takes up 40 hours a week. But again, if I stick with it for just nine more years, um,

I get to collect $50,000 a year in pension. Or I could give it up and I could focus on all my other stuff that does substantially better but doesn't come with that quite of a guarantee. You have $3 million worth of real estate. Yeah. And you're worried about a $50,000 a year pension? Yes. It sounds like almost you've got those two things on the same plane of value. And one of them is buying a biscuit. Yeah.

And unfortunately, you're exactly right. They're not on the same plane, dude. One of them's a one out of ten, and one of them's a ten out of ten. One good real estate deal will offset your stupid pension. Right? Correct. Mathematically. You do one good deal, it'll make you $50,000 a year the rest of your life. That's $4,000 a month rent. Yep. Yeah. Okay. So what is this career?

I'm a firefighter in a paramedic, which was, I was a child that wanted to be a fireman, and I did. Yeah, yeah. And so I think you're having a very wise discussion with your wife and also between your ears. You're saying, what do I want to spend my time on?

That 30 years from now, I'm going to feel good. The 30 year from now person, the 70 year old version of Matt is going to look back and say, well done. Okay. Now the 14 year old version of Matt wanted to be a fireman and he accomplished his goal and he served his community and fought fires as a fireman and a paramedic. And he's a good dude. Checked box.

But I'm not concerned about making the 14-year-old Matt happy anymore. I want the 70-year-old Matt to be happy. You follow me? With his choices. Yeah, yeah. And I think the fire thing's done, just in what you described to me, because I think you love this baby more than you do 40 hours a week.

But I also don't think that the first plan that you delivered, which was, let's say when you said, hey, in nine years, I'll make $50,000 a year. I can retire and just sit on the couch all day. I don't think that that's... You weren't going to do that. No, no. So what would you do?

I mean, I would continue. I mean, my goal, by the way, Dave, welcome back. I hope you enjoyed your vacation. That's my goal. My goal is to not just take a stressful weekend or week long vacation and actually get away with the family to someplace else for days.

for somewhat extended periods of time and enjoy God's green earth. Listen, I love that, and I think you should do that. I just wanted to know, like, what would be the thing that makes you feel like you're doing something that matters? What would be your contribution? You know, I think officially, not resigning, but officially retiring from a life in public safety. To me, now, you know, my dad and my grandfather

their entire lives were devoted to our local volunteer fire and ambulance places. Um, over 50 years, both of them, each, um, volunteer, they didn't even make a dime. At least I'm getting paid for it. Rest in peace. Um, and so in a way I see that and I'm like, geez, and I'm just, I'm about to walk away. And granted, I've been doing it, Dave, you're right. Since I was 14 years old, uh, September 10th, 2001 is the first day I stepped foot into a fire station as a firefighter.

And obviously a lot has changed. So here's what I'm pointing out to you, okay, is you stepped in and your identity became who is Matt? Matt is a firefighter. And now you're making a bigger choice than just $9,000. You're saying, because this is family DNA and everything else, you're saying, now my identity is I'm Matt the dad,

of a 10-month-old, and I'm a real estate investor so that I can have more time for my family. That I love. That's your new identity. And that's part of what's bothering you. It's like you feel like you're dishonoring your dad or your grandpa's memory. You're not. You served honorably for a long period of time to the community, and that season's over. I think.

I think. But here's the thing. I've had this happen in my life several times because people that get things done put too much on their plate. And Sharon and I have to sit down and go, okay, something's going to give. We should decide it proactively rather than letting it blow up. Because you're either going to blow up the kids by having no father in the house or you're going to blow up your –

over here that you're putting too much time into so you never see your family or you're going to blow up. And so just decide on purpose what it is you're going to blow up.

I was working with teens at the church like hours and hours and hours and hours and hours a week when our children were small. And we're getting ready to – and I started doing financial coaching at the church before we did all this. And that started during the hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours. And I got little kids, and Sharon and I sat down, the exact conversation they had. And she said, something's leaving.

Me or the teenage ministry or the financial ministry. Because there's not room for all three of us. I understand that. And she was being sarcastic and funny. She wasn't packing up. But she made a good point. And so I decided, Lord, tell us which one you want us to work on. Pretty soon I started hating teenagers. So...

And I got over that. I like teenagers now. But I quit. The burden I had to save the next generation in ministry was gone. But the burden I had to help people with their money is still here. Here we go. Okay, there you go. It's a good discussion, Matt. You're very wise, you and your wife, to have that discussion. It sounds like to two guys who don't know you that much, me and Jade, that you're not a fireman anymore. ♪ music playing ♪

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Jade Walsh, all Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. You call in, we'll talk about you right in front of you. So CNN reporting mortgage rates fell this week to the lowest point since February, Jade. A lot of people are excited about that. 30-year fixed rate mortgage average 6.2%.

In the week ended September 12, that's down from last week's 6.3, which is well below the

two decade high of 7.7 yeah and uh see last time it was this low was um in february of 23 yeah so it's been 18 months uh since it's or more since it was this low and i was on the way up of course in february and 23 just passed by this and went on up yeah um so uh

interest mortgage interest rates seeming to soften the u.s housing market remains unaffordable for millions of home seekers especially those with low incomes um well that's true but the interest rate uh was not the sole cause of that price was the cause of that and house prices going up faster than wages um has caused that and it's actually i don't know i don't know

There's still a group, you know, this article continues the stupid mythology thing that

you know, a lower income person can live in Manhattan or Los Angeles. You can't. Well, yeah, I think. Can't afford it. There's like the outside economic causes for this. And then there's like the personal level. Okay, where do I live? What do I make? How do I manage my money? That does play a huge part in this. Exactly. Exactly. The choices that you're engaging in. But there's never been in modern history,

a time that you could afford to live in a super expensive city. If you had a low income. That's not changed. Yeah, that part is true, yes. That's not new. Yeah. You know, I mean, it's, I mean, and low income, now the definition of low income has changed because we make a lot more money now than we used to, but the housing prices are more than they used to be. So, but I mean, I remember in, you know, the 1982, I'm coming out of college, if you wanted to live in New York City,

in Manhattan in 1982, you needed to make, you know, up close to a hundred K. And so an entry level college student with a bachelor's, I made $18,000 a year at my first job. And so the chance I was, I could not afford to live, you know, entry level job coming out of college business degree, the pay that I was being paid, I could not afford to live. Now I wasn't lower income, but I was

lower middle income. I was a brand new college student out of school. So, I mean, of course I wasn't making the money that your parents made. Of course, yeah, it's not time yet. But you can't go to, you know, the only way I can go to New York is if I land a job making that or the only way I could live in, you know, most parts of LA. So they act like this is some kind of a,

I mean, CNN or some of these articles, MSNBC act like it's a capitalistic crisis or something. It's not. That's always been there. Now, what is frustrating or interesting that I don't have an answer for is why the market didn't pick back up with this tick down in rates. We've not seen the activity hit the...

It's a real estate market. It didn't light up. When this happened? Yeah, when it dropped a full percentage, point and a half. Well, you and I talked about this a little bit even before the show. There's still that demand. The demand is high, but there's not a lot of homes on the market is what they're saying. Yeah, that's part of the problem. That's true. If suddenly there were a bunch of homes to flood the market, I got to believe that prices would go down. And then the prices being down plus mortgage rates being slightly down would make people go, you know what? Okay, now I can get in. But

There is a part of that where, you know, like it says here, a key issue driving America's housing affordability crisis is a persistent lack of homes on the market. Supply is simply not keeping up with the demand in many markets across the country for varying reasons. We've been saying that for three years. We've been talking about, oh, there's going to be a bubble. Prices are going to crash. And we said, no, prices are not going to crash because there's a shortage. When there's a shortage, you don't have a price crash.

And part of that shortage, okay, so they're saying, yes, it's still expensive to build, right? Construction costs, zoning laws. This says even not enough land available for development. And I guess that depends on where you live because here they're building, I feel like they're building everywhere I look here in Middle Tennessee. But then if you go down to South Florida, it's built up. I mean, they got to tear down stuff in order to build things. So again.

Where is there land available? Yeah. Where there's land available. I mean, it's like, you know, again, in downtown Dade County, Miami, there's not any land available. In Manhattan...

You know, there's not any land available. It hasn't been in a hundred and something years. Yeah, that's right. It's been that way. It's been a hundred percent built out for a hundred plus years. So, you know, yeah, there's a shortage. And then there's the part of, I mean, I think we all know this by now. There are a bunch of people sitting out there that have 2% interest rates and 3% interest rates and...

Unless they have the need to move. A lot of people are like, hey, I'm fine where I'm at. There's no need for me to. Why would I double my interest rate? Why would you do? And I, yeah, why would you? I wouldn't. And so that accounts for, what do we decide? 20% of what's going on here. And I'll throw in one more thing. And this is just a wild guess.

I have no idea if this is right. But let me tell you what it's based on, okay? Okay. I am firmly convinced as a student of economics, and I have a degree in finance, so I've spent a lot of time in the stupid economics textbook over the years, that economics is really as much about psychology as it is math. We talked about this, the vibe session. Exactly.

And so, you know, when you think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, when you think things are good, you go out there and move around in the marketplace and things are good. And so hope is actually an economic thing.

I'm with that. It causes economics to prosper. Lack of hope causes it to pull back. Law and order. Economics cannot exist where there is not law and order because you can't open an ice cream store if some mob is going to trash it. Okay. Of whatever that's upset about whatever they're upset about this week. Okay. And so when you don't have law and order and you don't have hope,

freezes like a deer in the headlights. And...

On a short-term basis, here's my I don't know if this is right thing. That's all right. No question about that. But the thing I'm not positive about is how many people are sitting and waiting to see who gets elected in 45 days? 100%. 100%. People are like, if it's my guy, this is going to break me free. Like they think that. You know, that happened. I remember people thinking that if Obama got elected because he ran on hope,

That they were going to get a free car or something. Remember those videos? Yeah, I do. I do. And it's like, you know, and let me just help you all. Neither one of these people are going to fix what's going on at your house. Yeah. Neither one of these people are going to fix everything you want them to fix, whoever you are at the White House.

Yeah. Because no one does everything exactly like you want them to do. There's always going to be something you disagree with. And never in the history of the United States has a president caused your life personally to get better. You did that. But here is the hook. Ronald Reagan was a broker of hope. Now, you can disagree with him. You can not like him. You can argue about the politics of it. But he made the American people the hero in his talks rather than I'm the hero. Elect me.

And so, and that is the, it's gotten all twisted up, but it is the genius of the Trump slogan. If you just take the slogan, all the rhetoric and all the acid and everything else, and just listen to the words, make America great again. Now it's turned into make Trump great again. We know that, okay? So nobody's confused about that. But I'm saying, if you could just say, independent of all the rhetoric and the crap out there, if you made people believe that you were going to make

the country great again, then they would step onto that hope and they would go. Reagan did a much better job at that than anybody in a long, long time. He was a motivator.

Yeah. Like a motivational speaker in the White House. I think you have to look at it. I mean, we are we're always teaching a way of life and a set of principles. And you've got to look at it as what what you're doing is the main course. And what the whoever wins the election, that's the garnish. Because the truth is, yes, there could be times. We got so tied up in the worship of these people and even their ideas.

That they're sitting on the sidelines waiting to see if their guy gets in. That's what I'm saying. You've got to be the main course. I mean, the truth, yeah, you could have said, oh, I saved more in taxes under this person. But if you continue to do the right things, you were doing okay no matter who was in office is the point. Exactly. So if you continue to do the right things. I have done stupid things and smart things under every one of them. That's right. And you might have a time where you get a cherry on the cake and sometimes you don't get the cherry. But you still got the dessert. And so you're like, all right, this is great. Nobody took the cake.

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Jade Walsh, all Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, we have the debt-free stage. If you don't know this, you ought to come by and visit us, and you could see it. We'd love to have you. Some wonderful coffee and homemade cookies await you, all on us. We won't send you an invoice. So there you go. And good stuff.

And also on that debt-free stage today, we have Steven with us to do his debt-free scream. Hey, Steven, how are you? I'm great, Dave. How are you doing today? Better than I deserve. Where do you live, sir? From Fayetteville, Arkansas. All right. Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. And how much debt have you paid off, sir? I paid off $150,000. Wow. That includes $130,000 in student loans, $10,000 in credit card debt, and a $10,000 car payment. Wow. How long did this take?

So my debt-free journey started in 2018, but I went gazelle intense the last 23 months where I paid off $86,000. Wow. Okay. I'm going to call it 23 months. Well, we could just say four years to 23 months. Yeah. Okay. And two to four years. Yes. That's the plan. Yeah. But the last two years turned on the heat. And what was your average or what was your range of income during that time? Yeah.

Yeah, Dave. I mean, at one point it was zero, but it started when I graduated school at $61,000, and now it's up to $149,000. Cool. What do you do for a living? I'm a producer for a retail media company. Very good. Good for you. Well done, man. Thank you very much. And you had a pile of student loan debt. Yes, sir, I did. So I guess we could ask two things. How did you get tied into this Ramsey stuff?

Back in 18, and then the second question that kind of goes with that, what changed 23 months ago?

Yeah, Dave. So originally when I took out these student loans, I had made a deal with my parents and they were going to pay the interest on the student loans and I was going to pay the principal. But whenever I graduated and started to make the payments, they weren't making the payments. I had asked them to pay the interest like we had agreed to and they told me that wasn't the deal that we had agreed to. They told me that month to month that they weren't going to pay, that I was going to pay $130,000.

And then at the end, in a lump sum, they were going to pay the interest. And so, yeah, in 2018, I got my car stolen. Oh. And I had this debt.

And yeah, I was in a really rough spot. And so, you know, I ended up getting a new car. It had Sirius XM free trial. And I was just scrolling through all the channels to see what was on. And I heard a story about someone, you know, paying off their debt, started tuning into your show. And, you know, I put not just myself and my parents onto your plan and we're all debt free. Oh, wow. Yes, sir. All right. Wow. That changed a whole bunch of things. Yeah, it did. Did they ever chip in?

Yeah, they did. So what happened 23 months ago was I set boundaries. I had to set boundaries with my parents because they still weren't paying. And not only that, they have their own issues. And so...

Yeah. I just kind of had to go no contact with them for a little bit until I got my debt paid off. And whenever I did that, they came through. Whoa. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. So what, I mean, that, that part was hard. I mean, anytime you have to deal with family drama, it's draining and it's tough, but on your side of it, I mean, you had a lot to pay off. So what did that take? I mean, surely you were working overtime, you were budgeting. Tell us about that.

Yeah, so this goes back to when I was an undergrad. I got my commercial driver's license at LSU, and I drove the shuttle bus, the drunk bus, as they would call it. Amen. Yes, sir. And then whenever I got to grad school at Ole Miss, a bit of a curveball there, you know, I was working with the athletic department, going to grad school, but then I also picked up a job doing black car service, and so I drove rich people limousines. I got to drive around Robert De Niro one time, so that was really cool. Ah, you get a good tip.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Of course. He was very polite. Very good. Thank you, Robert. Good job. And, yeah. And so I continued doing that, too, whenever I got to Fayetteville, Arkansas. You know, of course, the University of Arkansas is up there. They have college game days, concerts up there. And so, you know, I signed up for Uber and would really only drive the events where there was a lot of traffic and I could make a really good profit. And, yeah, besides that, using the EveryDollarBudget app and sticking to the plan.

So tell us the why behind it because plenty of people get student loans, plenty of people hear that other people have paid off their debt, but they're like, eh, I'll just make the payment. It's not hurting me. What was your why?

Like why I took out the student loans? No, why you got rid of it. Why you went after it. Why you got rid of it. I mean, what was driving you, man? You were driven. This is awesome. Yeah. Well, I think it's very important to note that these were private student loans. Ooh. Yeah. And so originally my parents were co-signers and, you know, I was fed up with them at one point that I refinanced and took them off as co-signers to kind of prove a point that

I'm ready to do this on my own. And yeah, so just really got after it. I mean, in the last 23 months, I put every dollar I could towards it. I was paying $1,200 a month plus an extra $2,500 a month. Every bonus that I got the last two years went towards that. And, you know, I sold some restricted stock too to get all that taken care of. So...

How's it feel now that you did this? I'm proud of you. Thank you, Dave. That really means a lot hearing from you. I feel unbelievable. Being debt-free really hasn't hit me until I stand on the stage right now being in front of you guys. I have been celebrating for like the last month. You know, I paid it all off on July 31st and had a table for one for myself. And then, you know, this past weekend, I've got a shout out to my boy, Mike Boyd, for letting me crash at his place.

If you saw me on Broadway this weekend, no, you didn't. And yeah, we just had a good time celebrating. So good for you, man. Thank you. What's next? You know, I think for this next week, I'm actually on a little road trip. My grandma, she's come down with dementia and it's not doing too great. And unfortunately, part of this whole process with boundaries and families is

subconsciously I think I've just been distant from my whole family. And so I'm going to go down to Louisiana, go visit her. I'm going to go visit my brother. He's got a heart of gold. I can't wait to see him. And then, yeah, I'm going to slide back up to Pitbull, Arkansas and take on Baby Step 3. Here we go. Game on. I love it. I love it. Good for you. Well done. Well done. How old are you? 32. Okay. So there's a 26 or 27-year-old out there.

who's up to their neck and doesn't know they can get out. That was you. That's right. Talk to you back then. Work hard, man. Work hard. You know, the job market right now wouldn't be, you know, is probably not that hot. So focus on yourself. Level up.

Go get therapy. Honestly, seeing a therapist over the last three years has really helped battle my anxiety, set boundaries with my parents, and stick to my core values of honesty and respect. You know, I think those two values weren't really present in my family growing up or throughout this process. And so, you know, I've had to make sure I do an audit with all my friends and make sure that everyone is...

holding up to those same standards that I hold to myself. And then I've also had to look at myself and take accountability, Dave, because I took out the loans. Ultimately, it was my decision to do that. And I had to, you know, sleep in the bed I made. So I had to take care of that. Yeah. Good for you. Well done. Thank you. The answer is hard work. The answer is hard work. Once again. Hard work is hard. And the weird thing is your anxiety goes down because you haven't got time to worry because you're too tired. I know that's right. Because all you're doing is working. I know that's right.

I cannot. No time for drama. I love it. We don't. Well done, Stephen. Thank you. Well done, man. You're a hero. You took control of your life in a society where that's not a popular thing to do. Sit around and blame everybody else. Nope. I went and fixed it. Drove Uber for Robert De Niro. There we go. That's how I fixed it. There we go. Good tip, Robert. Well done. All right. Oh, man. Congratulations.

All right, Stephen from Fayetteville, Arkansas, $150,000 paid off, the majority of it in the last 23 months of gazelle intensity, making 61 up to 149. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free! Ah!

We've never seen choreography. I'll take it. I'll take it. I like it. That's great. Good job, Steven. Man. Hey, guys. You just listened to this for the first time? I think Steven just told you you need to go do it. Yeah, I'm talking to you. Yeah. You. This is The Ramsey Show.

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jade washall ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us open phones at 825-5225 hey we were talking about the real estate market a while ago and how people are sidelined because they can't find a property because of supply they can't they don't want to walk away from their two percent loan uh or they're waiting on the presidential election or whatever um

Really, if you're ready to move, I wouldn't let any of those things hold me back personally. And if you need some help, get with one of the Ramsey Trusted Agents.

All you got to do is go to RamseySolutions.com slash real estate, and our guys can actually help you get a house sold or bought in this weird market and help you pull this thing off. The other thing you need to know as this particular segment comes to a close, the show will continue on the Ramsey app, the Ramsey Network app.

And if you want to get the entire show every day, YouTube or podcast or whatever, you can get video or podcast. You can get the whole thing on the Ramsey Network app free. Doesn't cost a thing. Or, you know, if you're on talk radio, you're going to get what you've always gotten, wherever it is. Nothing has changed there. But a couple months ago, we made the shift to the last portion of the show is now on the Ramsey Network app.

There was all kinds of data and stuff that went into that decision. And now that we are 60 days or so into that, it has proven to be true. So our YouTube listenership or viewership is up. Nice. Our podcast completion rate and everything is up.

and we've still got the same amount of content, and you go to Ramsey Network app. You need to get the whole thing there or at least the last segment there. If you haven't downloaded the Ramsey Network app for free, we're not charging a thing for this, okay? You can go get it anytime you want to go get it.

So just go over to the Apple Store or the Google Play or whatever you're going to do and download the app and get the Ramsey Network app to get started. And so as this segment wraps up, we'll jump over to there with you. Or, again, if you're talk radio or whatever, you're going to get what you've always gotten exactly. Okay. Amanda's in Washington, D.C. Hi, Amanda. How are you? I'm great. How are you all doing today? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Hey, so I have a question. I just discovered you all a couple months ago, thank God. My husband and I are in about a total of $90,000 debt, and I'm full on board, like I don't plan on using credit anymore ever. I do own a business, by the way, and so we're going through trying to get

trying to figure out how to get through the baby steps the best way. But he asked me, he said, hey, if you don't plan on using debt ever again, why don't you just file for bankruptcy? What's a you, Park? Where's he? What wouldn't it be, we? Yeah. Is it business debt? Is that why he's looking at it that way? Correct. Okay. Well, no, it's the $90,000 is inclusive of everything, personal and business. Okay. Okay.

So why would you file bankruptcy and he wouldn't? Well, I guess he's looking at it as my debt rather than our debt. And that's part of us getting on board with everything, Ramsey, because before then we didn't have our finances combined. So we're kind of still trying to change the language and everything like that. Okay. How long have you been married? Every year this November. Okay. And break the $90,000 in debt down for me a little bit. What are the major categories?

Yep. So I have the student loan, about $40,000 in student loan. And then pretty much the rest is just like credit cards and personal debt. There's no car. Well, no, just a little bit of car. It's like $1,900. But it's pretty much just credit card debt. And is the credit cards you're using to keep the business going? And what kind of business is it?

Yes, so two of them were used specifically for the business, and then the other were just personal between both of us. Is the business profitable? It is getting there now. It's been open less than a year. No, I mean getting there is not what I asked. Are you making a profit this month? Yes, yes, yes. How much do you make this month, profit? Profit-wise, a little under $1,000.

Okay, so you currently have a $12,000 a year job, which puts you at the poverty level if you don't get this business moving. You don't have a debt problem, you have an income problem. No, so that's not the only job that I have. Okay, good, good, good. I was going to ask about that. I was going to say this sounds a little bit more like a hustle until it's off the ground. Are you doing anything in the meantime? Okay, great. So what do you do? What's your main job? Yeah, what's your income? My income is...

We bring about $8,500 to $9,000 a month together. I'm a nurse practitioner. Okay. And so we have our income together, but we don't have our debt together. So here's the thing. Student loans are not bankruptable. Right. Okay. So you have a $40,000 bankruptcy or $50,000 bankruptcy you're talking about, not a $90,000.

And you make, you're not going to get relief from everything by filing bankruptcy. You're just going to get relief from about half of it. And do you own a home? Yes. Okay. It's going to be in jeopardy depending on how much equity you have. Do you have any equity in it? Yes. About $130,000 is the last time I checked. Okay. All right. Do you actually live in D.C. or do you live in Virginia? Virginia.

No, outside in Maryland, actually. In Maryland. Okay. Just for fun of it, I'll explain this to you, but it's not going to change our answer. But knowledge will help you, okay? So when you file bankruptcy, you surrender all of your assets to the court, and the court starts doling them back out to you. So the court would take ownership of your home, not formally, but technically, and

And then depending on what Maryland has, type that into Google right quick. What's the homestead exemption in Maryland, Jade, while I'm yakking? And depending on what the homestead exemption is, in Tennessee it's $7,500. Okay. And so the court would let you keep $7,500 of your house equity after they sold your house to pay your debt.

Oh, no. Yeah. If you were in Tennessee. Now, I don't know what it is in Maryland. Right, right, right. But in Texas, it's 100%, and you get to keep all of it. It's exempt, and so is it in Florida. Okay? So each state's different. But let's say that it's $50,000, just for the fun of it. Jay will have it in a minute, okay? But basically, your home equity is going to go to pay your debt, is what I'm telling you. So your husband's suggestion is...

uh based in not knowing what's going to happen to you if you file bankruptcy so you find homestead exemption and bankruptcy for maryland it's there but it's not clear it doesn't say what it is let's see it should be just a little chart pop up okay anyway doesn't matter you're gonna probably unless they have a hundred percent which i don't think they do exemption okay i think

$25,150. Kelly just found it in the booth. So $75,000 of your home equity would go to pay your $50,000 worth of debt. So you can't file bankruptcy. You'll lose your house and it'll pay your debt. You'd just be selling your house to pay your debts, what you'd be doing.

You follow me? No, we definitely don't want to do that. No, we don't want to do that. No. No. And still end up with a stinking student loan debt. I know it. Yeah. Correct. Yeah, no. So bankruptcy is off the table. Okay. Even if that wasn't the case, you still wouldn't file bankruptcy when you have $120,000, $130,000 income on $50,000 worth of debt because the $40,000 student loan is not bankruptable anyway.

Even if you didn't lose your house, you wouldn't do that. I mean, what if you guys just lived on $80,000 and paid it off in two years? Yeah.

So I've done all the math and everything. He was very hesitant, but is going along now with the plan because we did this back in June. So that's what I calculated was 24 to 26 months. That's what I had calculated. And that's how you are now. That's assuming you're not adding any extra income. If your side hustle takes off in doubles, you'd do it in 18 months. That's right.

Exactly. So you guys need to get beans and rice, rice and beans on a plan. You need to combine your debts, combine your household, combine your incomes, and combine your efforts and focus and kill this. You're not bankrupt. And if you're not using every dollar, you need to get on every dollar because that is going to be the foundation of all of this. If you don't have that, you're not going to move at the speed you think you're going to move. Yeah. Hang on. We'll let them pick up and give you that for free. Okay? We want you to not file bankruptcy. You're not bankrupt. You don't need to file bankruptcy.

You're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.