Millionaires In Cars Getting Coffee with Caleb Hammer
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No, I don't like drama, but I am known to be a cheeky boy. I don't know what that means, but it sounds not family friendly. Don't you think?

It would be beneficial to your mental health to have no debt. There are so many people out there that are credit card people. But you were the guy who said, I'm going to be a credit card person. Then you maxed out the cards and went into debt. I think the vast majority of people should get a 30-year fixed rate mortgage if they want to be in the world of having a primary residence. To be clear, I was very much bad debt free before I started by many years. Bad debt free. Okay. Bad debt. We'll get into that.

Hey guys, George Campbell here, and you'll notice I'm not in the office. I'm in Austin, Texas, home of the Longhorns, Good Eats, and the Woebegone Woman from Blake Shelton's 2001 country love ballad. And it's also the home of my friend, Caleb Hammer. That's right, I'm actually in Caleb Hammer's car right now. And if you don't know who he is,

Yes, you do. He's the host of Financial Audit, over 600 million views, well over a million subscribers, and we're here today for a new installment of Millionaires in Cars Getting Coffee. And today we're going for a joyride in his Tesla, which I get to drive, to talk about wealth, the craziest money situations he's seen, his past, present, future, how he got a start, and how he made his first million. And speaking of which, help me hit my first million as we get started, subscribers that is. Hit the like and subscribe button, and let's pick up my friend, Caleb Hammer.

- Hey! - What's up, buddy? - Welcome. - How you doing? - This is so fun. - Yeah, how does it feel to be welcoming me into my own car? - You know, it's strange, I'll be honest. But it's a beautiful vehicle. - Thank you, I have some ice cream here. - Is that what that is? - I got some ice cream drool. - I don't like to ask questions in someone else's car. - I know. - I did notice that you are a Costco member. - I am, but why is it sitting in the car? - And why is it not an executive membership?

I want to pay that annual fee, man. Dang! All right, we'll get you more subscribers so you can afford the air. Thank you, please. You guys are in a crisis. I'm on my way. I noticed in some of the old videos with, you know, Graham and Jack, you said, "I'd love to hang out with George." Yeah. And I came to you a year and a half later. Thank you, 'cause I don't really fly. So you live in Austin, Texas.

All I know about Austin is, you know, great food, wonderful art, creative scene. They keep Austin weird. Yeah. What are you doing to keep Austin weird? How are you doing your part? Finding the interesting characters in Austin and putting them on display in front of a million people. You know, it's a nice little advertisement for Austin. Most of the people on Financial Audit, are they from Austin? Because you fly people in as well. Yeah. Yeah.

But most of them are local Austinians? Yeah, Austinites, Austinians. I like Austinites better. That felt weird coming out of my mouth. It just tends to be that, you know, some of the more characteristic weird finances tends to be with some of the more characteristic weird people. Who would have thought? Before we get to finances, which we will, I need to ask about your music career.

Your musicality. You're a composer by trade. Are you still doing music? Yeah, man. Do you still play? What do you play? Sousaphone? Trombone's what I played. I haven't played in a long time. I played it in our post show once for our subscribers, but

Did they want more? They said no more. Probably no more. No more trombone. Because this embouchure is dead. I have not played in years. Oh, it's difficult. That's true. You kind of lose it a little bit. Yeah, it's the muscle. Dang. Yeah, I was like tired. It was like legitimately tired. But you compose as well. Is that kind of out now? That was my thing. You were doing that as a side hustle? Dude, that's what I wanted the main thing to be. And it was going well there for a while. I was studying music composition at Western Michigan University with...

you know, three different professors there and they were all great. And it was, it was going pretty okay. I was actually making a livable income. I think the first year that I tried to do it like full time and then dropped out of college, I was making like 30,000 bucks just selling the music and getting commissions because one talent, I think I was as good at in the music world, whether or not my music was good. That's for other people to decide, you know, if you're making money off of it, well, I was good at selling people to get

to like the consortium. Like, I want to write a new piece of music. I want your school to be a part of it. You know, sign up, 500 bucks, and, you know, get your name on the consortium of funders of this new piece of music. I love the word consortium. I know, it's a good word. That's a $10 word, if I were to say. Okay, so you're not doing it as much. I would love to. No one's clamoring to hear more Caleb Trombone. I know. You've reached the house of unrecognized talent. Please start after the...

- Well, let's talk financial audit. You've been doing financial audit YouTube now for how long? - Two years, two years and two months. - And as of this recording, it's at like 1.36 million subscribers. - Yes. - In that short amount of time.

Why did you start this? Because you were doing some YouTube stuff before then. Yeah. And then was there a day you were like, I'm going to try to get someone in here and just look at their numbers? When thinking about making a show that I wanted to do, it was kind of like how I would write music as well. And it's just like, this doesn't exist the way I want to exist it. I want to watch this. So you made the content you want to watch. Yeah. Make the music I want to listen to.

make the content I wanna watch. And after getting turned down by two YouTubers for jobs, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna be a YouTuber myself, guys. - I'll show them, was one of those people, Graham Stephan. - Graham Stephan was one of them. He didn't know that I wanted a job. It was one of his employees that essentially said no, but there was a YouTuber here in Austin who has like 5 million subscribers and he's still great. I don't have like any beef with him. He was hiring a producer and I wanted to leave

my product management job and just work in that creative space and make content because I've always just been obsessed with YouTube, just loving it. And, you know, I pretty much got turned down for that job after a long sequence of events of just, you know, will he, won't he type of things. And

You know, at that point I had the itch that I just wanted to make content. Now, when I went and started making content, there was no intention to make this a full-time job. It was honestly a hobby. So you just kind of went for it as a hobby. You're like, I just want to do this. I needed a hobby. When did you know, like, oh, this is working? Like, was the first episode like, oh my gosh? No, but... Because you had a full-time job at this point still? Yeah. What were you doing? A product manager. Okay. And I liked it, but...

You know, I didn't have a lot of passion into it. - But you had the passion for personal finance, clearly. - Personal finance, content creation. - That's why you started the channel. You saw other finance creators, you went, "I'll try that."

Yeah, kind of. I mean, I did some videos. I did financial audit, then I did some talking to the camera videos, kind of like Graham does, Graham Stephan. Yeah. And, well, you make some of those videos too, I think, right? Yeah, I talk to the camera. That's kind of my style. You know, we do other things like this. This is on the same channel, so we do have a variety. And then you insert a clip from a movie that... The editors, they go ham. I don't know what's going on in pop culture. They tell me this is relevant. Insert clip that takes you away from the video here. Don't tell me what to do.

We've talked about starting fake beef. It helps that the audience would react. But I don't know what beef we would have. No, I don't like drama, but I am known to be a cheeky boy. I don't know what that means, but it sounds not family friendly. What is a cheeky boy? You mean cheeky just like sort of like... Always just like little like... Just legit. I'm known to do that, you know? It's fun, but not in like a negative way, you know? Not to ever actually like hurt someone.

Well, I got to ask, as you've been doing financial audit now, people know about it. It's kind of like impractical jokers. Like at some point they know and they want to be on camera. Oh, sure. Have you found it's harder to sort of filter out to get the people who really need the help versus the people who are like, this is my time to get 500,000 people to see my face? We get hundreds of applicants a day. That's wild. It is, I know. I'm all over the world, I imagine. Yeah.

Yeah, mostly the United States, but from all over the world. And we narrow down to whether or not it's finances that we think we could actually help with. And then we've also just continued to narrow down to will this be an interesting conversation? Because in the end, it is still a podcast. And then we have phone calls, lots of onboarding processes. But determining whether or not they're chasing clout, that has been a hard thing. Now we require that people are not allowed to use their real name. We assign a name to them.

So they will not, if they're trying to promote something, they're not gonna be found. - Okay. - You know, we do extensive interviews. People know Noah from my show. He's one of the producers. He has conversations with them to, you know, many pre-show interviews trying to understand

what they can provide to the show, but what they also want to get from the show. Because part of it is entertainment at this point. Well, yeah, but... It's got to be an interesting, entertaining personality on the other side. It can't be someone who's real, just going to keep it down here. Does that become difficult? Because there's sort of a chemistry that you need to have with the other person. Kind of. I mean, I...

A lot of the times I definitely feel that I lead like 80% of the conversation because these are people that have never been on camera. They never expected to be on camera. They're just random people. They're not like communicators by trade. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, that's another way to know that I don't think that the majority are just trying to be on cameras because a lot of them don't know what the heck to do. Thank you. The moment they... It's a self-edit. That's what it's called in the biz. Saying cuss words is illegal.

I think people always get really nervous when they get on camera for the first time. They walk in this room, even with all the onboarding we provide, they walk in this room. The lights, the cameras, the studio, there's 17 people there. Exactly. It's so much. So they get a little nervous. I think people, it can kind of look like, oh, they're trying to put on...

a show instead of just being genuine. Like, and I, I can kind of understand that. And we just try to find ways to make them feel comfortable, you know, sit down and have conversations with them beforehand for a while. Noah talks to them for like 20 minutes or something before we film, just to try to get them to feel more comfortable. That makes sense. But we don't allow people, we refuse to allow people that just want to come on in order to plug something. Well, this is a millionaires and cars getting coffee. We are on our way to get

said coffee. We went to your, I guess, favorite coffee shop. That's my go-to chain, at least. And on top of that, we got to talk millionaire stuff. And at some point, when we've been talking over the last two years over Instagram, you were not yet a net worth millionaire. No. But...

You have been making a lot of money since then. You've been buying real estate, you've been paying off debt. And at what point were you like, were you tracking this? - To be clear, I was very much bad debt free before I started by many years. - Bad debt free, okay. Bad debt, we'll get into that. - The suspense is terrible. - So what, do you remember, like, was there a certain day where you tracking this? Like, all right, here's my net worth today, next month, next month. Was there a day you had kind of had a mini celebration of like, cool, that's a cool milestone?

Yeah, I can pull up the spreadsheet. My man's got a spread. You think you're like Caleb? You're not like Caleb. This guy's got the net worth spreadsheet since 1994. My net worth when I started YouTube was a quarter million dollars, which is substantially higher than I think like the $14,000. That means you've been doing some good things. Yes, lots of real estate. As you started your career. Yeah. Okay, we hit millionaire...

At some point, because there's no service. Oh, man. Was that a tease? It was a service tease, but it was at some point last year. I would say mid-2023. Mid-2023, you hit the millionaire status. Did your life change at all?

No. Because I had a number in mind that I talked about on other podcasts that I wanted to get to for just knowing that I could retire and live off of that. So you're kind of like retiring your, let's call it your fire number. Yeah. Financial independence, retire early number. Has that changed over time? Because I feel like

A lot has happened in the last year for you. Not necessarily. I mean, I always have stretched goals of just because I'm competitive with myself, but it's not like a grab as much money as possible type of thing. Because, I mean, you saw like I spent a lot of money on more employees than most YouTubers have. You know, I spent a lot of money on the studio, making it just the area cool, nice. I more care about growing the business, being an employee at, you know, above, you

you know, median wages, all that kind of thing. Like I want to pay well, that's what I care about. But yes, I do have stretch goals that I am competitive with myself wanting to see how far I can push. But compared to, I think a lot of other finance YouTubers, I don't, I'm not as like, I need to, I need to hit this number. I had a number. Well, you're going to hit it. It's just a matter of when is that it? Maybe. I mean, I hit my original number, so I know I can retire now. Comfort.

Comfortably. Oh. So like I'm satisfied to just be myself anytime, anywhere, no matter what. Is this like investments versus real estate? It's both. So it's cash flowing rental properties. Okay. And it is in the stock market overall. Okay. Okay.

And based on all that, you're going, I could retire today. Because I saw on the last iced coffee hour you were on, you were saying you feel less secure than you did when you were getting started. Yes. But you're kind of still, there's a worry of like, what if it all goes away? What if it's not enough to retire? Before I hit that number. Once I hit that number, I feel like... So the last six months has changed. Where you're like, all right, I'm good. Yeah. Yeah. My first conversation with them was about almost a year ago now. And that's where I'd say within this last year, thanks, Suf.

gone really well. Okay. Can you kind of break down what your net worth is made up of? Like what is in there? Yeah. It's so I have six properties that are cash flowing. They're in my hometown, Kalamazoo, Michigan. Oh, wow. And it makes up a long distance for you because you're in Austin. Yeah. My family's there. Six investment properties in Michigan. That's like your primary residence here in Austin.

Yeah. Okay. And it's 16 units. So 16 individual units, six different properties. I mean, that together without major expenses, that generates over six figures a year. But I don't really take that into account. I really assume I'm only going to walk away with like...

at worst, you know, if everything were to go to bad, like 15% of gross. Okay. And that's knowing you have mortgages on a few of those. A couple of them. Yeah. Most of them that I ended up getting in cash. And what about like, for example, this car? Yeah. Was this a cash purchase? Yes. If I could have got it at like 1%, they were doing a Model Y offer for like 0.99% Model Y. I would have gotten that in a heartbeat.

- Okay. 'Cause this is where we, you know, we agree on a lot of things if we actually looked at all the common ground. - Okay guys, George is right now going down a one way, the wrong direction. I wanna be very clear. - I'm following the lead vehicle. I was told to follow the lead car. They took me the wrong way. And if we get arrested, it's Caleb's car, not me. - Ooh, he's snitching. - Hello. - How's it going? - Good, how are you? - Doing well. What can I grab for you, boss? - Can I please have a decaf quarter winter moon 16 ounce?

16 ounce decaf, quarter winter? Yes, sir. And I'll do a Nitro Moon Sub for the oat milk. Nitro Moon Sub Oat? Got you, boss. All right, I'll see you at the window. All right, thank you. Thank you. Are you going caffeinated?

Oh, yeah. Oh, is it too late for caffeine? I guess it is late. It's 3.30. You're not supposed to have caffeine after 3. Oh, boy. And I've already had probably 500 milligrams today. Millionaire. September 2023. September of 2023. That's amazing. And as of this recording, it is August of 2024. And I imagine as your income's exploded from the business side, like, do you have a new, all right, I'm going to hit...

"Two million, buy this." And like, do you have projections or goals or is it sort of just like, "All right, from now it's just gonna do what it does." - Yeah, I don't do that anymore because at this point I don't wanna, I've seen that consume other creators. I don't wanna do that. - The obsession over the next, the next, okay, what about the next milestone, the next milestone? - Yeah, I just wanna make the best show we can, grow the business, grow employees. I love working with people, collaborating with people. That's what I wanna focus on. I hit my retirement number, so I'm good to go forever. If the thing crashes down tomorrow, you know,

We're at the drive-thru now. This is very exciting. This is my boy. I love this guy. He's so nice. Hey! I'm driving Caleb's car. That's what's up. You're letting him drive? That's right. That's what I'm saying. But we have all the cameras here, so we thought, you know, we're having fun. We're looking 1380s. Oh, that's not bad. Summer mood's good. Cash is king. There you go.

- There you go, my man. - Thank you. - Give me one second boss, we'll be right back. - You're like, "Oh, cash, crap, I gotta count change now." - It just ruined him, no one holds cash. - I hate making people do work. - Yeah, no one holds cash, it's 2024. - I always have to count the change now, 'cause these young folk. - Are you saying they can't count 'cause he has a mullet? - The mullet had nothing to do with it. - It's not a hairstyle, it's a loft style. - So Caleb, you've made your living

calling out everyone else's mistakes in order to help them and, you know, help them grow and win financially. And you've done dumb stuff yourself. It's kind of the Dave thing where, you know, it's not like you're above it all going, I'm perfect. Stop screwing up. But you've made your own mistakes. What is that? I got a degree in D-U-M-B. It's a PhD. Oh. Give it some credence. Sorry, it's been a few years. So what are some of the mistakes that you made maybe early on? Yeah, I mean. Maybe as an 18-year-old, whatever. Dude, we're all dumb. Humans are the stupidest.

pieces of like flesh that exists. Like we are just so dumb. So it's okay to make mistakes. And that's what my show is all about. It's not excusing the mistakes, but it's about being called out on them, learning from them and then moving on. So I make mistakes every day. The debt mistakes that I've made in the past, I took out...

a massive amount of student loans and I was just being really dumb with school and I started taking out Sally Mae private student loans. I bought a $5,000 iMac that I needed to compose music. - Wow. - Of course, I needed to, of course. - Every good composer has to buy a $5,000 iMac. Makes total sense. - I borrowed a down payment for a car from my grandparents, 2,500, and I had vehicle debt. It was like $15,000 for a whole car.

"Oh, I wish I talked to someone before I got it that knew anything about cars." But it was a 2000- - You just walked in the dealership and they were like, "Bro, I got you." - 2013 Nissan Altima. And those transmissions don't even last 60,000 miles.

Yeah, you could have Googled that one. They had Google back then. I know. You could have avoided all of this. I think I was just excited to get in a car that wasn't $1,000 for the first time. Dang. I know. So you paid off all of that debt. That's what you call bad debt, I assume. Yes. Except student loans. Except for the low interest student loans. We need to talk about this. Sure. Why have you kept your student loans for a decade? I mean, how long have you had these for? Yeah, since I started taking them out at 18. Is it like a sentimental thing? Like, oh, the memories. Well, yeah. I have them framed with a big kissy.

thing on there. Because your degree was in what? In dropping out. Oh, you dropped out. Yeah. You have the student loans to show for it. Absolutely. life worked out for you. So it's not like, woe is me here. Yeah. And I think that's 40% of people who go to college drop out. Yeah. It's an astounding amount. Yeah.

So how much do you have left in student loans? I have like 35. Okay. And the interest rate is what? 2.5%. And so you're like, I can finesse it and make a spread? Is that your... Barely even finessing. I mean, the money that... Obviously, you know, we're having an interesting week in the S&P 500. And in general, who knows when this episode goes up, it could be down 10% for the year. Either way, with the money that I've put in versus paying it off, it's up like...

30, 40, 50%. - Okay. - Whereas like if I paid off the student loans instead, I would have made progress of 2.5%. - Any other debt that's lying around? - I have a mortgage on my primary residence and two rental property mortgages. Other than that,

No. Okay. This brings me to my next question. You've been very honest with your, you know, panic disorder, anxiety issues, a lot of the guests that you have on, they're experiencing a lot of mental health issues. And you've talked about the relationship between finances and, you know, lack of money, money problems, debt, and mental health. So here's my question. Don't you think it would be beneficial to your mental health, to your anxiety, to have no debt?

Because I think I have a better life now because I hit my retirement goal because I put the money in the markets and let it ride the wave instead of paying off a low interest loan. But that's assuming you wouldn't, you would be doing very well for yourself had you just paid off your debts, bought things in cash, went a little slower. Sure.

- Yeah, maybe. I don't know if I would be at my goal. Maybe, maybe not. I've had a lot of ability to grow and compound. We've been in an incredible bull market since, you know, this whole year almost so far and majority of 2023. - Yeah, when things are going well, it's easy to go, I like where I'm at. But the thing is everyone's gotta play until they get punched in the mouth. COVID's a great example.

tenants don't have to pay. No one, you know, things are, you're freaking out. Now all of a sudden you've got mortgages to pay, but the tenant's not paying rent. Wouldn't that have freaked you out had you had all these properties in 2020? Not necessarily because I have an emergency fund for the businesses as well. And the rental properties, you know, it's set to last, you know, a year if there's

No sentence. If something went down. Yeah, so that doesn't bother me personally. You've said, you know, like, well, I'm going to finesse this. And like you have a 0% loan out for a system you're using for the business. And I'm going to finesse this and make money here. But you've said for most people, like one of the biggest traps, the number one thing holding people back is they're trying to finesse the system and doing it in a way that is causing them harm. Because they think I'm going to be like Caleb.

I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna pay off the balance perfectly. I'm gonna do it the right way. - Sure. - And you also said that humans are the stupidest species on Earth. - Okay, not stupidest species, but we're stupid. That was an over-exaggeration. We're stupid. Not the stupidest species. I mean, obviously we're the most advanced species on this planet, but we're dumb. - Oh, I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once.

So that's where it's like, it's kind of a, you know, do as I say, not as I do, because you have sort of risen above the suck bar. Completely disagree. There are so many people out there that are credit card people. We, that's what we call credit card people, not credit card people. For a lot of people that are not able to be disciplined in...

the world of leverage, the world of debt, the world of being able to use a credit card, don't, just don't take it. It's okay. But you were the guy who said, I'm going to be a credit card person. And then you maxed out the cards and went into debt. Well, no, I didn't say I was going to be a credit card person. I didn't know what money was.

Like, I didn't have a goal of being a credit card person. I had a goal of getting a product that I wanted, you know? Yeah. So, I mean, that's completely different. If people are knowledgeable about the system and then they're not able to actually utilize it correctly in any way whatsoever, then they shouldn't be doing it. Which is consumer debt all-time highs. Yes. Credit card debt keeps going up. So I can, in good faith, be like...

Just be a good credit card person. Be a responsible America. - If we're in the, both you and I are working at companies that love the idea of education and we sell different educations. What's wrong with being able to teach people how to become better at something? I do say that the majority of people should not use credit cards, but if people are able to,

in a healthy, and you, I mean, you, what was the phrase you said when it came to whether or not people should use credit cards or should not use credit cards? You were like using money intentionally. I'm very intentional with my credit cards. That is a very intentional thing. And I still think that the vast majority of people should not use credit cards. I think the vast majority of people should get a 30 year fixed rate mortgage if they want to be in the world of having a primary residence.

And I think that's fine. I think 15 years is pretty silly and pretty unrealistic for the average American right now where interest rates are, where we just still hit last month was record home sale prices. If you combine that with where interest rates are stagnant at a pretty substantial high, obviously it's not the highs that we saw in like

But you take that, you can put it into a 15-year program. The average American can't afford that by any stretch of the imagination. Well, the average American has broke up to their eyeballs already. They're not in a place to even do this. And then when they do take on the 30-year, what happens is they tell themselves, I'll pay it like a 15. I'll pay it off early. And we know what they do is they hang on to it forever. They get a second mortgage. They get a HELOC to do the rent. And they just make more bad choices. That's not everyone. And we could be against that without being against the 30-year fake.

fixed rate mortgage. I still think like if everyone was investing heavily into the market and the savings rates were at 15 or 20 percent and everyone had, I would be like, OK, we're doing good. The problem is nobody has margin to even invest because they're stacking the 30 year mortgage with a car payment, with never paying off their student loans, with racking up credit card debt. Then they add on a HELOC, a personal loan. That's what I'm actually seeing in reality. And I'm sure it's right. But your argument is saying that because people are doing dumb, that we can't teach people to use the system correctly.

Like that doesn't make sense. I just, I want, I see debt. If you're going to take on a mortgage, get rid of it as fast as possible. The 15 year causes you to be in a guardrail, to have a guardrail there. Hey, we'll be back to chatting with Caleb in just a moment. But first, let me shout out a sponsor of today's episode, Laurel Road. They don't just have a delightful name. They have a delightful high yield savings account that can help your money work harder for you.

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or click the link in the description. All right, we paid the bills, back to the conversation. - So even with whatever disagreements or criticisms, I mean, I will say this, this like absolutely, one, I respect the the heck out of what you guys do. Like millions of people's lives have been changed because of it and it's incredible. I, unfortunately with the devil's advocate annoying brain that I have, I always wanna like nitpick on different things, but I still think in general,

It's just so cool what has been able to be done on all of essentially finance YouTube, from Dave Ramsey to just like everyone. The fact that people are watching the content and they're able to improve their life, that's what's crazy. And I know I'm bringing up a couple of criticisms. And what's interesting is like, you can watch the most brain dead content out there. Let's just say a general Mr. Beast video, like you watch that,

and no one will ever criticize anything, but he makes a video where he builds homes and that's where all the criticism starts coming in. - Oh yeah, when you try to do good, people come at you. - So the moment you start mixing in wanting to actually help, because if you're not perfect, if you're not doing it, if you're not making the exact show that they wanna see, if you're not doing the exact thing that they wanna see-- - In the way they want it done. - Then it's not good. If it's not 100% perfect, it's bad. So perfection's obviously the enemy of good. So even though I might

Disagree with a couple of things like the $1,000 emergency fund. Okay. I still think in general, what you guys have done has been insanely incredible. And people have literally changed. Millions of people have changed their lives because of the content. And that within itself is incredible. And I would love to be able to leave a legacy like that, you know? That's beautiful. Like having that, that's... What a blessing, you know? Yeah. I'm lucky to be a part of it. I can't take much credit. But I'm trying to, you know, at least...

make this thing stick with the next generation for the next 20 years? How do we keep the message alive? The spirit of it. You're bringing in the youngin, right? How do you do fellow kids? I want to know what are the big traps you've been seeing people fall into on financial audit? Is there a thread? Dude, it's probably the same thing you see on your shows and mine. It is in America, it is the car.

It's as people get themselves into a car payment they cannot afford, into a car insurance they cannot afford, into gas payments they cannot afford. Then all of a sudden something goes wrong with that car that they cannot afford. And they do all this without an emergency fund. Yeah, they're underwater. So they might be able to finesse it. You know, one thing that you guys recommend and I also recommend sometimes is sometimes borrowing the difference and borrowing for like a cheaper car. But sometimes you're so far underwater that you can't even do that. The math doesn't work. Yeah, what are credits so shot? No lender is going to give you the difference. Yeah.

And we have people that come on the show that the repo man's chasing them, and they're avoiding that. We've had two conversations this last month about that specifically. I feel like a bad way to avoid it is going on a show that you know is going to get hundreds of thousands of views. Fake names. Oh. That helps. We want to protect people's identity. Now I'm like, whose name is real? Yeah. Is your name really Caleb? Mm-mm. I saw your costume card. It is. It's Caleb with a K.

- You just blew my mind. - Car loans are a big one. - Car loan's a huge one. In general, not having an emergency fund, I feel like lands a lot of the people that come on our show into one of the situations that they're in. Because a lot of people start with something wrong happening, you know, a medical expense.

pet getting sick what pet insurance actually can help with i i do support pet insurance it saved me thousands of dollars or you know a car breaks down and you don't have an emergency fund you end up in debt then all of a sudden that debt is 30 and then you're just trying to be able to catch up on those payments but even instead even you know people

have criticized me and it's not an unfair criticism. They just usually never hear my response to the criticism. It's, well, okay, what if people don't have the emergency fund and their pet gets sick or you're just going to let them die? No, go into the debt for the pet. I get it. I would do it. Now, because you have the debt, sacrifice your daily McDonald's

and pay off the debt first before you go back. It's okay if you end up in a situation, you're not a morally bad person, you know, you're not a bad person for going into debt, you know, for whatever reason. It's just what is the sacrifice you're willing to do to get yourself out of it. And that's what matters. A lot of people come on the show. And this is one of the big mental things that's wrong with the people that come on our show. They come in, they sit down, they think they're better than the person that came on the previous episode. They think,

My situation's not that good. But it's not that bad either. And that's why I dig so deep into them. People think I'm a little too intense. Well, people get comfortable in their own little pile of poop because they think, well, someone else got a bigger one, so I'm not that bad. And that comparison game sort of keeps you stuck. Yeah.

Yeah. And then when I tell them how much money went out versus came in, Pikachu face. You know, they have no idea. They've never looked at that. I made $6,000. I spent $8,000. Okay, this is a problem. That's half of the show is just trying to get to the bottom of those numbers. You know, and you get to do it over a long period of time, over, you know, an hour and a half, two hours. We have seven minutes to accomplish everything.

So it's, it's a different ball game for sure. Yeah. We had a couple that came on recently and they're like, I'm surprised you guys even accepted us on the show. We thought our situation was boring. And then we showed them they had 150,000 hours of bad death. Like, and they thought it was boring. We just thought we were normal everyday people. Um,

Oh my gosh. Okay, what is giving you hope that's happening out there? Maybe with your audience more than it is your guests. But what are you hearing from people? Like, are they investing for the first time? Are they paying off that debt that's been hanging around? Do they get their income up? A mixture of our follow-up channel and our...

comment sections, emails, things like that. We have a lot of people that have seen the show. I mean, it's easily in the like what 20, 30,000 now of just either social posts or emails or comments, people that have seen the show and improved it, being able to one entertain people and to actually literally change tens of thousands of people's lives. Blessing of life. I'm like, there's nothing else that can compare to that. Um,

And then also now that we're doing a follow-up channel, seeing people, even if they haven't done 100% perfect, which some have, there's people that are literally changing their lives that have been on the show.

and they're actually improving their lives and seeing those results on the follow-up channel. We also did a survey of all past guests and, you know, some did worse, some did better, but it averaged out that it was like within six months, the average guest paid off $8,000 in debt or the median was $6,000. Nice. Yeah. Okay. So that's like real things, real results that are actually happening. That's cool. Thanks for sharing that. What is your next financial goal?

I want to grow the business and hire as many people to do like good things that we can. Like...

you know, we're building your week in money. That's our second channel that I'm putting a lot of effort into being able to hire people to work on that and just in the collaborative space, being able to just work with these different people is one of the coolest things. And like people are able to, I would just want one of the first full-time employee I hired. He just bought his first house. Wow. And he did that because of the thing we're building. There's got to be some pride in that. Yeah, it's so cool. I provided an income from the stuff we're doing so that he could hit his financial goals. Yeah. I mean, just being able to

just see them actually live their lives based on the company that we're building together. It's really cool. - Caleb, I could talk all day. I love talking with you. You've done amazing work. I love watching your growth and success. And it's an honor to finally

get in a car with you for millionaires and cars getting coffee. Thanks for joining us today. Keep up the good work. Thank you. Can you ask for a like and subscribe in an only way you can? Please like and subscribe, guys. We need it. George needs it. He needs to beat his boss. He needs to become the highest Ramsey personality subscribe channel. That actually, that's a great goal.

I got to be John Deloney first and then Dave. It'll take a while. And subscribe to Caleb's show. Thank you. There you have it. Hope you guys enjoyed this conversation with Caleb Hammer. Big thanks to Caleb and his whole team for having us out here. We've had a great time. And thank you for watching. We'll see you next time.