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Hey everybody, Roger Stone joins the program. He believes that Joe Biden is going to get pulled. He goes through the details of how that's going to happen. He's a very wise, very smart guy. Don't underestimate Roger Stone. Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. Subscribe to our podcast and open up your podcast application and type in Charlie Kirk Show. Get involved with Turning Point USA at tpusa.com. That is tpusa.com. Buckle up everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what
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Roger Stone. So what I appreciate you, Roger, many things is that you are taking a sober view of this upcoming election. You think that we might have a 50-50 shot. What are you most worried about? Well, first of all, I'm a veteran of 13 national. That's why I trust your opinion the most. I've been in over 700 campaigns for public office. And I think I'm very realistic about our chances if we're going to win.
We have a free, fair, honest, transparent election. We'll win handsomely. But there's no evidence that that's going to happen. You can't really point to any state, other than getting rid of the drop boxes in Wisconsin, you can't point to any state where there have been very substantial election law reforms.
So if people steal a car and there are no consequences for stealing their car, what will they do? They'll go out and steal another car. Yes, I think we had an abnormal number of anomalies and irregularities and outright fraud in the last election. And if we have that again, we could be cheated out of victory. So for those who say...
We need to run up the vote as much as possible, beat the cheat too big to rig. I'm on board. Absolutely. Massive turnout, racking up as much numbers as possible. That's part of the solution. But there are other parts to it. So I take what you say very seriously. Back in 2020, I remember you spoke at an event and you were warning about the 2020 election. Well, a lot of people thought, oh, we're going to win. The polls are all there. He said, no, no, no. We have a big, big problem here.
If if you could give three pieces of advice that would be taken by the Trump campaign right now, what would they be? Well, they've already got the best candidate in American political history. Well, that's right. And the best thing about the Trump campaign is Donald Trump. And they can't beat that because he's a phenomenon. Look, I work for Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan was very popular, but he could not get, you know, 100000 people at the New Jersey shore at Wildwood, New Jersey. He could never be unheard of.
So, first of all, I think there are chain of custody issues that have to do with paper ballots. If we are stuck with paper ballots, and let's take Pennsylvania as an example.
Mail-in ballots were challenged there. They are clearly unconstitutional. It's not even a close case. The lower courts knocked them out. The middle courts continued to avoid them. And then the state Supreme Court, which is extraordinarily political and left-wing, put them back in place. So the Philadelphia machine is going to be back at it again with paper ballots, just to use that as an example.
So I think there are chain of custody issues that really need to be very aggressively addressed. Then secondarily, the people at the National Republican Assembly, which has been around since the 30s. The California Republican Assembly was one of the seminal groups in Ronald Reagan's rise.
They have an excellent program to find bad addresses, meaning certified by the post office to be undeliverable. So let's take Florida because I know it best. You take all 15 million voters. You run it through the program. You find 1 million undeliverable addresses attached to voters.
And now you go to the 67 counties and you ask that those people be removed. That needs to happen in every swing state. There's two things that you can do right there. And the failure to do that, why do you think that's so difficult or it's not getting done? Because it seems so obvious. First of all, I think it's a little too early to say that it is not being done. I think some lawsuits are underway. There are.
I think you have a new attitude of the Republican National Committee and things are getting better. The real question is why didn't it happen over the last three years? So, yes, we're playing catch-up ball. But right now I think it's a mistake to form the firing squad in a circle. No, I'm with you. We all have to work very closely together to try to get these reforms. Some of them are technologically more difficult. I read –
Carrie Lake's submission to the Supreme Court. Now, I'm not an attorney, but it appeared to me like, yes, there is a question about the security of these electronic voting machines. In 2016, just before Donald Trump's improbable victory, I wrote a piece for The Hill, which was then under different ownership, in which I
talked about the vulnerability of the electronic voting machines and the fact that you could go to Best Buy and buy a device for about 25 bucks that would allow you to penetrate one of these machines. It's just a computer, and they're not supposed to be centrally linked. David Brock, these people came down. How dare you say electronic voting machines can be penetrated? Then when Hillary lost...
She filed three recounts in Michigan, Pennsylvania. I'm not sure what the third state was it now. But in both cases, her whole argument was that the machines had been corrupted. You've seen the videos of Democrat after Democrat after Democrat saying that the machines can be corrupted. So it's an area of concern. Who do you think Donald Trump should choose as his vice president? If it were me?
if you're the senior advisor and you get to call the final shot i would take tulsi gabbard okay tell me why um i would take tulsi gabbard because we need to get some new votes uh she is a lieutenant colonel in the u.s army reserve she's an iraq and kuwait a combat veteran she's a championship surfer on the big issues uh the war in ukraine uh closing the border
life and guns. She is rock solid. She's also, I think, very charismatic. She's sure-footed in the sense that she's run for president before. Go watch her debate with Kamala Harris and you'll see exactly why I would like to see her. Now, that's not to denigrate anyone else. I love Ben Carson. I love Ben Carson. I
I love Elise Stefanik, who I think has been very good on the issue of the corruption of the New York judges. So I'm not against anyone, but if I had my choice, that's who I would choose. So the issues in front of us, again, you're a campaign veteran. You see things where they happen. Do you think we'll be running up against Joe Biden when it comes to November? I do not, as I told your conference in Palm Beach yesterday.
I know you've been very I know your answer. You've had a bold declaration and I'm not being rude. I'm just handling event issues. Perfectly. All right. Look, I believe that this debate coming up could be Joe Biden's Waterloo. Yes, the stakes are very high for President Trump, but they're also very high for Joe Biden. If he falls on his face, he's done. I still believe that the leaders of the Democratic Party are increasingly concerned.
uncomfortable with his ability to get through a campaign. To be clear, I've never said that Michelle Obama will run for president or wants to run for president. What I believe is that if he releases his delegates,
And he lets the convention choose. That's who they will choose. And perhaps she can be persuaded that she is their strongest potential candidate to stop Donald Trump. So I'm going to stick by my prediction. Do I think she wants it? No. So you're. I think she'll take it.
Hey, everybody. Charlie Kirk here. A movement to change how we elect our president is growing, led by radical left-wing activists who don't think their side should ever have to lose the presidency again. It seeks to do away with the Electoral College as devised by the framers of our constitutions.
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of high stakes parliamentarianism. You've done it many times. You know how conventions operate. Let's get into detail. How would this work in Chicago? That works very easily. So Joe Biden releases his delegates. So he has to then just
He has to release. Yes, but again, he's not resigning as president. He's simply announcing that he's not running again. So you think that's possible? Yes, and he blames his health, but who would be surprised, right? Okay. Okay, so now you go to an open convention in which any delegation or any delegate can put forward the name of any person eligible, and in a showdown at that convention between, say, Michelle Obama—
And Gavin Newsom, I think that she's the overall emotional favorite. She's the most popular Democrat in the country other than her husband, and he's not eligible. So mechanically, it's not that difficult. Now the question is, what do we do with Kamala Harris?
Well, that's she's going to fight it. Well, in any normal scenario, she would be next in line if the presidential candidate said he wasn't running. She's the sitting vice president, but she makes even less sense than Joe. So and they know she can't win. So it's really not that complicated. Michelle and her husband offer Kamala a Supreme Court seat.
She is a former Attorney General of California. She's no less qualified than the last person we put on the court. She's actually probably more qualified. She may well be. Katanji Brown Jackson. She may well be. So I think that's one way to resolve that issue.
Within their party, obviously race is very important. Minorities are important constituency. So she would be next in line. The only way, as I said in in Palm Beach, the only way you can replace a woman of color is with another more popular woman of color.
And so then this convention floor knife fight, do you think that there would be kind of a council of elders before they let it break out in a backroom, super delicate type deal? They bring Pelosi, they bring in Obama, they bring in Soros and Schumer, and they figure this out?
Yes, only because the structure of their convention is very different than ours. Explain that. They have superdelegates. So if you're a congressman or a senator or a state party chairman or a national committee person, for example, you're automatically a delegate. Then if a state...
is won by the Democrats by a specific margin, you get bonus superdelegates. The superdelegates are all insiders. The superdelegates are all party officials or elected officials. So, yes, it'll it would look democratic, small d on television, but it would be it would be managed. So that ends up happening. Let's say let's play this out. Trump v. Obama.
What are the odds? Be the Caesar's palace. Set the wage. I'm still with Trump. I'm still with Trump only because she is untested. If you look at polls right now, he beats her fairly handily, but that's because she's not a candidate. Interestingly enough, in 2016, also in 2012, when we took polls for Donald Trump,
He did not fare particularly well, but he was completely unfazed and I said why and he said well you don't understand I'm not a candidate as soon as I become a candidate these poll numbers will change I doubted that I was completely wrong as soon as he became a candidate he skyrocketed in the polls So I don't think people see her in that context which is which is why? You have this gap
It's very, very tricky to run against a woman at any level. It's very tricky. You come on. Especially in today's. Unless it's Hillary Clinton, who's particularly despised. No, that's and built in decades of. Of negatives. That's exactly right. I think that's you. And Michelle Obama is legitimately a juggernaut. I mean, she sold like 20 million copies of her book or something. And she also essentially has no public record to attack because she's never voted on anything. That's right. She can say, well, Joe Biden, that's not me. I'm not responsible for his policies.
And other people, she would be uniquely that way. Gavin Newsom would be tougher. So out of the Gavin, Gretchen, and Obama, you think Obama would be the toughest? Yes, I actually do. First of all, I think they have a problem replacing a black vice president or a woman of color with a white nominee within their party. I just think that's problematic.
which is why I still think their internal solution would be Michel. And by the way, I think it's a mistake. People joke about that or people not take that seriously. I think that's a grave, grave mistake. Oh, I'm taking it very seriously. I know you do, but not everybody does. Because I think deeply about these things, as you do too. And by the way, you should really take Roger Stone seriously.
He's been right about a lot of things for many years, and he's been in almost every major high-stakes political knife fight for a long time. Bush v. Gore, Nixon. You have a Nixon tattoo, don't you? Don't show it. I do. I have a tattoo of Nixon on my back. It's about the size of a grapefruit. It's like a floating head between my shoulder blades. I'm the only man you know in the world with a dick on the front and the back. That's Roger Stone.
So sorry, but Roger, you have you faced the lawfare beast head on. I was happy and thrilled. I advocated for your pardon publicly and privately. And I was thrilled that President Trump pardoned you. And that was the right decision. And it was so terrible that you got targeted and you're able to speak here because of that. I'm alive because of it. I mean, in all honesty, they're supposed to send you to a prison near your home. They wanted me to go to a prison in Georgia. I live in South Florida.
If you've read their sentencing memo, they wanted to give me seven to nine years because of my involvement in foreign election interference in our election, which is not what I was charged with or convicted of. It is a completely rigged system. And as I said in my remarks today, the analogies between what they did to Trump and what they are doing to Trump right now and what they did to me are like it's a perfect match. That's why I bring it up. And out of that struggle, I'm sure you develop some wisdom and you can start to –
see where things are going. Do you think they're going to sentence Donald Trump to prison on July 11? Yes, I do. Absolutely. What does that look like? How long? What is the excuse? Well, I mean, the judge has this complete authority and he has an ability now a chance to become a liberal icon. They're probably dangling a federal judgeship in front of him. He could become the most popular, well-known Democrat in the country.
overnight. It's also part of a faction of the Democratic Party that's been working on this for a long time. So most lawyers I know
who just aren't, they're not capable of thinking in political terms. They say, well, yes. First time offender. The judge may give him jail time, but then he'll stay the sentence pending appeal. He has no previous. No, they, this is all election interference. So if the goal is to get him off the campaign trail, if the goal is to suck up his money and legal fees,
If the goal is to continue to blacken his name, yes, I fear the absolute worst. I pray that I'm wrong. You think that he could be imprisoned before the election? I think he could be imprisoned on July 12th. How would he show up at the RNC the next week? He'd have to do it virtually somehow. I mean, these people are capable of absolutely anything. So let's game that out. And again, some of this is speculation.
Who would benefit? It's that coy bono, right? Who benefits from Donald Trump being imprisoned on July 12th? Well, I think it allows him to drive the whole convicted felon narrative, which is an important part. There's four parts to their strategy. Trump is a convicted felon. January 6th, which is crumbling before your very eyes. Yes.
abortion. The Republicans want to make abortion illegal every place. That's not accurate. That's not what the repeal of Roe v. Wade does. And then they're going to come back because there is a subset of House Republicans who favor extending the age before you can receive your Social Security benefits and means testing outside income to potentially cut your benefits. You can bet you're going to see TV commercials about that as well, even though that is not Donald Trump. If he's imprisoned.
Do you think that that could turn into a political tsunami in Trump's favor like we've never seen? Yeah, he could become Mandela. He could become our version of Mandela. He becomes a martyr. It would be an overreach. But there's also the medium ground. So what if they don't send him to Rikers Island, which is a hellhole? You think they could send him to Rikers? I most certainly think they could, sure. The judge can do whatever he wants at this point. But what if they give him home confinement?
that he's confined to Trump Tower and he has to wear an ankle bracelet. Well, then it becomes like William McKinley's campaign of 1896. If he can't come to us, we'll have to come to him. People would have to make pilgrimages to where the president is. I think it would be a horrific overreach.
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dot U.S. forward slash Charlie. Let's celebrate Father's Day together. AMAC dot U.S. forward slash Charlie. Tell us about the 1896 election. Well, basically, William McKinley would come out on his porch and delegates would come from all around the country. Why couldn't he travel? It just wasn't done that way. Two things. First of all, you didn't go to the convention.
The convention met, nominated you, and then they sent a messenger to tell you you had been nominated. And then you wrote a letter back of acceptance. That's how it worked. It's probably a better country. And candidates...
And candidates did not actively campaign. I mean, you had campaigns on their behalf. But a presidential candidate, it would be unseemly. You would come out on your porch, and there would be several thousand people today. It would be Arkansas. Tomorrow, it would be California. The next day, it would be Tennessee. People would make a pilgrimage to where McKinley went. And you would hear their concerns and—
He would give a speech. He would give a speech. And this is before TV, and so the newspapers would write it up. Right, and newspapers would get handed from person to person all the way to California. So most of the papers were published in the East. Once you finished reading a paper, that was valuable. You gave it to someone else who read it and then gave it to someone else. The guy, Mark Hanna—
was the Republican National Chairman. He was the Ohio Chairman. He really created the political career of William McKinley. His contribution to politics is the handbell. He's the first guy who invented the handbell, just a piece of paper that extolled the virtues of your candidate.
We had the most aggressive grassroots campaign for William McKinley in the party's history. He was a public relations executive before he became a party boss. Just out of curiosity, when did that change? William Jennings Bryan, the whole idea of populist conventions, soon after that, right? Well, but even Franklin Roosevelt did not go to the 1944 convention to accept his nomination. He didn't go to any of his conventions.
So it's slowly with the advent of television. Yeah, sure. Is what it changed. And basically, as you know, conventions became television shows, which is what they really are. So let's say that Trump can participate in his convention.
What should the themes be? You've been to so many of these things. Since it's a made-for-television spectacle, what's the story? What's the visual? What's the aesthetic? What are the stories that you think should be told, storytellers? I think it's about peace. It's about prosperity. It's about security. And then we also have to take the opportunity to clarify our position on life and to clarify our position on Social Security, which is, yes, it's immunization, but you know those attacks
are coming, so you might as well deal with them up front. The convention will be very, very well watched. If they put Trump in home confinement, that VP selection is even more important. I totally agree with that. Look, there's two schools of thought here, okay? There's one school of thought. President Nixon himself once told me, look, when you're looking for a running mate, don't look for someone who will help you. Just find someone who doesn't hurt you.
That's one way of thinking of it. The other one is to find somebody who brings some constituency, some group. That rarely works. That's true. It backfires more than it works. But then you know what? No billionaire businessman has ever been elected president of the United States. So the rules, the rules are changing. The game plan typically is if you're the insurgent rebel candidate,
Leviathan and the machinery makes you take their guy as the VP Reagan with Bush. Yes, I think those days are over. So the idea of ticket balance. So then what what who would be detriment like for example, Marco Rubio is being considered or others who would be like no Nikki Haley would be awful. I think there's one I can agree with. Look, I'm not going to criticize Nikki. Yes, Nikki. I'm happy to criticize. Okay.
I'm not going to criticize my home state senator. I'm not going to do that. No, I'm not asking you to criticize. I'm just asking. But I do think if you look at the criteria, so what are you looking for? First of all, you want somebody who the American people can look at and recognize that they have –
the stature, the gravitas, the experience, the judgment, the temperament to actually be president if that becomes necessary. Then secondarily, or maybe this is first, you want somebody who is an America first Republican, someone who's a non-establishment Republican, someone, in my opinion, who is not a neocon.
Then, once those considerations, you want somebody who's sure-footed, somebody who has been through a national campaign and has the experience in the national press. In 1960, Richard Nixon was prevailed upon by President Eisenhower to take Henry Cabot Lodge, the U.N. ambassador, former senator from Massachusetts, as his running mate. Nixon was in Alabama campaigning the day that Lodge announced in California that
that if Nixon and Lodge were elected, the cabinet would have, using his words, would have a Negro in it. This was news to Nixon. Nixon said, we don't choose people on the basis of the color of their skin. We choose people on the basis of their qualifications. It became a three-day thing because Lodge had never told Nixon he was going to pop this out. It's just one example. So you need someone who understands that it's a supporting role.
particularly with Donald Trump. See, it used to be the candidate for president would remain above the fray and the candidate for vice president would do the heavy attack work on the Democrats. Well, Donald Trump is his own attack machine. He's a brawler. He will take the fight right to the Democrats. So that model is now outdated. Let's be candid. Mike Pence was perfect right up until the moment that he wasn't. And so it's conceivable that in September...
Trump was unable to campaign, so they take the rallies from him. We might all have to make pilgrimages to New York. Or Florida. If they give him Florida for home arrest. Again, it's up to one judge. This judge, I'm sure, I'm sure they're lobbying him heavily, and he has to weigh it. If he does the aggressive thing, does it help the Democrats? And that's...
You can make arguments either way. Well, but there are radicals within their group, I think, who have already overreached and they don't recognize it. I think there are saner voices who will see this as an overreach, but we should not think that all thought in their party is monolithic any more than it is in ours. Roger, you're a creative thinker. We'll close with this. What ideas or principles or policies should the Republican Party embrace to broaden the tent or solve some big issues we're facing?
I personally think that given Joe Biden's record on criminal justice reform and given the First Step Act and the Second Chance Act, we have there's more to be done in that area. But I don't think the president has gotten the credit he deserves for reforms in that area. I think we can make deep incursions among African-American voters based on our record.
the lowest level of black unemployment in American history. The real serious criminal justice reform which most of the members of the House Democratic Caucus have been talking about for 30 years but then voted against it only because it was proposed by Donald Trump. And then lastly, to be somewhat forward-looking, and I think the President's already done this,
Yes, we should not be opposed to cryptocurrency. I'm very pro-crypto. We should embrace Bitcoin. The government should not have a monopoly on our money. It's that simple. If you are skeptical of crypto, I can win you over that simply. The government should not have a monopoly on our currency. Do you trust the government? No. Therefore, it should be decentralized so that we can control the currency. Agreed, 100%.
Yeah, well, that's the same thing. Gold, silver, it's all the same sort of thing. Crypto is basically a digital equivalent of the same principles that make gold valuable is the same principles that make Bitcoin valuable. There's only so much of it. You know where it is and you can't touch it, but you can you can transact with it.
Roger, how can people support you and get behind you? They go to StoneZone.com. It's all there. I do a daily show on Rumble every day at 8 p.m. Roger Stone, pardon me, Rumble.com slash Roger Stone. I also do a radio show every Sunday, 77 WABC Radio in New York. Charlie, we've got to get you on. We've got to get it done. Everybody, Roger Stone. Thank you.
Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. Thanks so much for listening and God bless. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.