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Hey everybody, a robust conversation on abortion on the set of Whatever with young ladies.
I think this is how we need to defend the unborn and how we should think about it. Become a member today. Members.CharlieKirk.com. That is Members.CharlieKirk.com. To get a signed copy of my latest book, listen to all of our episodes advertiser-free. That is Members.CharlieKirk.com. Members.CharlieKirk.com. As always, you can email me, freedom at CharlieKirk.com. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here.
Charlie,
You wanted to talk about Shmorshen. Are we not allowed to say the word? No, you can say the word. I'm just being extra. I'm trying to spice it up. Yeah, spice it up. Let's go. Let me see if I can frame it from a dating related. Would you date a guy who was pro-life? Starting with you. Would I date one right now? Yeah. Okay. No. No. Yes. Probably not.
I don't think so. No. That's a requirement, yes. Good for you. I mean, I think women should have the right to choose in certain situations. Okay. Mainly based on essaying. Sure. Okay. Taking away Charlie. Yeah. I mean, who has strong opinions on the topic? Don't look at me. The Canadian. Canadian. All right. For those of you that are pro-abortion, any one of you can chime in. You can take a second. When does life begin?
When you have consciousness. Okay. When is that? It's debated, but probably around 20 to 24 weeks, maybe 18 to 24 weeks. So then would you say we should allow no more abortions after 18 weeks? It's a little tougher after that. I probably would agree that maybe you shouldn't. If you do, maybe, you know, I'll be more okay with it. But at the same time, I'd be a little weary about it. Okay. Anybody else have a thought on that?
I don't care. Okay. No opinion. Hold on, because some abortions late term are kind of crazy. You shouldn't have abortions super late term. Right, which America has the craziest late term abortion laws. Welcome to Canada. Well, Canada's also out of control, too. Canada is any time in Canada. Wow. Any time. That's remarkable. What does any time mean? Any time in the womb? Up to gestation. Oh, wow. Yeah, literally in Canada. Oh, wow.
I think it's dependent on the area. I think it's, but abortion is also a medical term, so it's not necessarily that someone wants to get rid of it. It's also a medical abortion, so like you need to, because I had someone in my life who six months in, they were super happy about their pregnancy and they had to have an abortion because they're
fetus died inside of them. So yeah, that's a surgical removal though. It's still considered an abortion. Is that right? Yeah, it's still considered an abortion. You're not really aborting a pregnancy, so it's just a... Maybe not aborting a pregnancy, but you're still aborting. It's still an abortion. I guess, yeah. I guess that's a... In the U.S. too. Yeah, it's still the same term. It's still the same term. Yeah, it's just not...
technically an abortion. An abortion would be that... Well, when you're thinking of abortion, you're thinking of aborting a live fetus that may be viable to live on, but an abortion can still be...
a fetus that is already dead that you have to abort because it will rot inside of you and kill you. That's the sensitive areas still in the U.S. Even pro-life people, myself, are okay if the fetus is no longer living, removing the fetus. Well, that's what happened to this person that I knew. They had to have an abortion at six months because their fetus... Yeah, again, that's...
I wouldn't say that's an abortion, but I don't want to debate that. It technically is an abortion. Like with Texas, for example, Texas law, right? You're allowed to remove a dead fetus. Yeah, that's still an abortion at that point. It's still an abortion. You have to abort the fetus. I know, but is it living? No, no, it doesn't have to be living for it to be an abortion. Right, we're just qualming over terms. That would be a surgery for... But we should call it what it is. If it's an abortion, it's an abortion. Okay, that's an interesting debate. What is abortion, then?
Removing a fetus dead or alive from your body. Okay, dead or alive. I would say alive. We just disagree. Yeah. Meaning I would say that ceasing the life. That's interesting you said dead or alive. But even when it's dead, you have to abort it. You have to remove it. Abort. Abort. Abort mission. Well, you can remove it without surgery, though. No, not when it's six months old. Well, not six months, but at a month...
So what about six months? What would you call it then? When you have to remove a six-month-old fetus, what is it then? Again, we're calming over terms. I wouldn't disagree that it requires surgery. Is it not an abortion? No, because you're not actually aborting the mission. You have to abort the mission. The fetus is dead. Remove it. What? So 500 years ago, how did that fetus leave the... No, the mother... The fetus would rot inside the mother and the mother would die. Not all the time, no. The woman could also give birth to the dead fetus. But that doesn't happen all the time. But that doesn't... That rarely happens. Most...
That's why they call upon it to be removed because nine times out of ten, the mother will die from the fetus. I'm morally fine with that. That's for sure. Do you think that if a baby can feel pain, regardless of consciousness? Hold on. I'm talking about a dead fetus at six months. No, I'm not disagreeing with that. You're dwelling on that. No. Sorry. Sorry. Hold on. I'm listening. OK. But going way back to like when abortion should be illegal. Yeah.
So you say life begins at consciousness. Sorry, when should abortion be illegal? At what time? I think all abortion should be illegal. But at what time? You said... Beginning at conception. Okay, no...
I'm trying to understand your position. Okay. Okay. I'll hold back. I'm listening. She's going to shut up. That's okay. So you say consciousness is when life begins. Mm-hmm. Okay. So then if somebody is without consciousness after a car accident and they're on life support, they're no longer living. Unplug them. Take me out. Unplug them. Okay. Yeah. I'm fine with that. You're consistent. So even the ones that come back to full consciousness when their brain waves are no longer detected, it doesn't matter. Too late, baby. Unplug. Okay.
I'm fine with that. I have no issue with that. What do you mean? How is that crazy? That's kind of... That's inhumane, isn't it? That is not... Okay, but also I see her point because so many people are kept alive by their family members who are grieving. But I thought they're not alive.
No, no. So your bodies are kept physically alive by their families that are grieving. And I'm talking about like for years and years. Sometimes. Families that I can afford it, right? And that's why I see your point. But also a physically developing fetus is not the same as a full-grown human that's already alive. For sure. What species is the fetus?
They're human, but they're still a fetus. That's why we differentiate a fetus from a human. But what does fetus mean? What does that mean? Fetus is a developing human. They're not quite human yet. So they become a human right when brain waves happen? When they develop mental consciousness. Which could be as early as six weeks, 12 weeks. Yeah, we don't know the exact date. We don't know the exact date. But if I told you, if we have data that shows six weeks, you'd be cool with cutting it off.
Yeah, if we could see six weeks that you had mental consciousness that you could experience life and form memories, but at six weeks you can't. You just can't. Do you even have a heartbeat at six weeks? No. Well, you do. Yeah, around six or seven weeks. Is it not ten weeks? It depends. I mean, we sort of know. I mean, every baby's trajectory is different. It's between six to ten weeks. So, yeah, but if a baby can feel pain and have a heartbeat, you're okay with that? No, I don't care about a heartbeat at all.
I don't care about a heartbeat in any capacity. Why? Because if I'm brain dead and I'm laying in a hospital bed and I have a heartbeat but my brain is dead, you're going to pull the plug. Do you think that a human being is more than brain waves? No. It's all about your brain. No, see, we have a good disagreement here. I think a human being has a soul. Does anyone else think human beings have souls? No, I believe you have a soul, but your soul connects to your brain. Oh, hold on. No. Yeah, I think so. Who else thinks we have souls? I also believe we have a soul. We have soul? Soul? Soul? Soul? Soul? Not sure. Not sure.
Yeah. What do you think? Yes. So you think solar? Yes or no? Sorry, hold on. There's water. That's okay. So you think soul, brain and mind are all one thing, right? That's what you think. I think it all connects in some way. Got it. So I believe that soul happens as soon as creation happens. I agree with that. Yes.
I agree with that. So then if you are terminating a baby prior to brainwaves, you're still terminating a soul. Your soul will go into another being. You'll get reincarnated into something else. I don't believe that. What is your soul without a brain? That's a good question. So, I mean, let's play this out. When you die, if we believe in a soul, then it transcends your brainwaves. Yeah.
So that means it's not in your brain then. It's outside of your brain. It's your whole being is your soul. Yeah, but you're not physically here. So what would be the difference between pulling the cord or not pulling the cord? Your soul would still exist. Well, no, for sure. With that argument, we should just kill a lot of people and think nothing of it. Sure. Their souls will go where they need to go. I know. But what you're saying is that since somebody has a being has a soul, which is my argument, we don't have a right to pull the plug or to terminate that being physically.
regardless of as brainwaves or not, because the soul is there at the moment of creation. Because when you're loving is suffering and they're, you know, the fetus is not suffering. The baby's not suffering at two weeks. Can I, can I ask a question? How does this translate to like war? When, when there's a lot of, no, no, it's because it's like, we can argue, we can argue, we can argue about, um, abortion and things like that and how it's wrong. But then some, a lot of,
or some more right-leaning are okay with war still and sacrificing men's lives. So how does that translate with the argument? It's a good question. I'm totally against the Ukraine-Russian war, for example. I think it should end. Again, I think all human beings are made of the image of God. Nothing should be trivialized. But as far as people being okay with war, you have to give me an example.
Wait, can I be charitable here? Would perhaps a better argument from your position be why are these people also in favor of the death sentence? Sure, sure. That can be an example. Okay, I mean, that's a good question because – Are you in favor of the death sentence? Yeah, the death penalty, absolutely. Okay, so you're in favor of the death penalty, but you're not in favor of abortion because you think infants are innocent? Is that why? Yes, let's take an example, okay? Yeah, okay.
This last week, two illegal aliens in this country just kidnapped and raped a 12-year-old. Not the illegal aliens. Sorry. Yeah, so a baby in the womb...
did not kidnap and rape a 12-year-old. Okay, but they have the potential to. Well, everyone has free will and the potential to, but someone who just kidnapped and raped two 12-year-olds, they're in a complete different moral universe than a baby who is sitting patiently in a womb. Well, it's also, it's the argument, like, I totally understand that fetuses are innocent, but it's the same argument that, like, you know, if a, if...
It's the... What is it? The violinist. I talked about this before. The first time I was on the violinist argument. I've been through this so many times. I know you've been through this, but I'll still run it through. The violinist argument where you're hooked up, you wake up and you're hooked up to the most famous violinist and they're hooked up to you and you have to sit there for nine months bedridden to take care of them. But in order for that metaphor to be true...
Did you know the night before that you had a chance to potentially be hooked up to a violinist if you had a bunch of pleasure? Okay, I get that part, but even... Because you agreed to have sex before all of a sudden the violinist showed up in your room. Even then at that point, accidents happen. It's also like you could just leave your front door open by accident, and now someone's sitting in your house for...
Hold on a second. Nine months. But having sex is a choice. Now, less than 1% of all abortions are rape incest. But having sex is a choice. You don't have to have that choice. But you don't choose to be pregnant when you have sex. You don't choose to be pregnant. Hold on. But you have a choice to have sex in the first place. Yes, but you don't choose to be pregnant. Pregnancy, sex doesn't always lead to pregnancy. Women are only fertile for five days of the month. Right. So why do you need to have sex?
Feels good. What are you talking about? So we should just do what feels good regardless of the choices or consequences? Yes, people do that all the time. People love feeling good. But just because people do things all the time, is that right? No, it's not about people doing it. People like feeling good. People like doing things that give them dopamine and serotonin. We're getting somewhere. Right. So should what feels good be prioritized over what is good? Sometimes it depends exactly on what it is. Okay. So if I can have pleasure and a bunch of people die, that's perfectly fine.
I said it depends on what it is. If people are dying... Okay, so again, back to the point, is that you don't... Multiple people. Outside of rape or those very, very fringe test cases, 99% of the time, you don't just wake up and you're magically pregnant. No, no, you know that you had sex and you're like, oh, yeah.
Hold on a second. So why do you then get to have the orgasm without the responsibility? Hold on, because you don't get to have the orgasm. You just wake up pregnant. Let's be honest. But hold on. No, but if the woman chooses to keep the baby, the man has to pay child support.
I don't agree with that. Well, it's the law. But yeah, well, the law might be stupid sometimes. Well, that's right. Both parties made the choice, which is interesting. Do you think that men should be able to have a say before a woman has an abortion? I think it should be a conversation. I don't, but here's the thing. I don't think you should be able to. Should both parties have to agree? I think so. I think so. You're consistent. Good for you. I don't think.
you should be able to force women into abortion just like you shouldn't be able to force women out of an abortion. You shouldn't. No way. Each way or the other. No way. You can't tell someone to do with their body. But is it their body or is it that another body is within their body? It's OK. But if someone broke into my house, I would put a gun to their head and say, get.
out or die. But wait, hold on. You invited the baby into the house with somebody. No, no, in game. Hold on, hold on. In a night of passion. I didn't invite the baby. I left the door unlocked by accident. Can somebody push it back? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Push it back. But wait, that baby is then within you. Okay. And it's still my body within me. Me, my body. Right, but it's, so is it your DNA? It doesn't matter if it's my DNA. Hold on, why do you have control over somebody else's DNA? Because they're in me.
So it's a location issue. Super interesting. So location matters more than being just because somebody happens to be within a womb. If it was my baby in Hawaii, take them out. However, so if somebody has, uh, it's not, if it's your DNA, you have total choice of your DNA to take a vaccine or not a vaccine to be able to take, eat Coke, drink Coke or drink Sprite. If they're in my body and they're affecting my life, I'll do what I want with them.
Okay, so just because somebody's location determines their moral worth. No, it's not about necessarily location. It's about how they affect me. For nine months after you chose to be able to get in that circumstance. It's not even just nine months. It's after the fact, too. You have postpartum depression. Yeah, so that's interesting. So we're getting somewhere. So your argument is you should do what is expedient, even if there is a victim and there might be a casualty. You wouldn't even know they're a victim. Okay, that's interesting. Yeah.
Is it okay to murder if the person does not know they were murdered? Sure. Why not? They won't even know. So it's okay to go to an old person's home with a bunch of people with dementia and just start popping rounds? Sure. Bye. Popping rounds. Oh, my God. You just killed your argument. No, I'm not even kidding. No, you did just kill your argument. So we can go to old people's homes, dementia, Alzheimer's. They're drained on society. They don't know who they are. They don't know their name. They don't know their relatives. By the way, millions of people with dementia and Alzheimer's. I don't think that you should. Hold on. Oh, no. You said you should be able to. Oh, my God.
Oh, my God. But it's not necessarily like if they're never going to know, they're never going to know. Okay, so murdering dementia patients is consistent. You're right. You are being consistent. I think there is a little bit of inconsistency because, like, after you're dead, you're dead in a lot of cases and a lot of religions, right? A fetus is even born.
Yeah, but let's say you're just a person on the street someone goes and shoots you. They're not even allowed to be dead. You won't know. But hold on. If you go... Same argument. The idea is... The question is this. It's just because something is not born, are they alive and do they have value?
I don't think so. Okay. So let's go through it. So just because, is it because the baby is, the fetus or baby is small? They don't have consciousness. Hold on. We've gone, we've gone through that. I want to try to, is it because they're small? That's not your argument. Location. That's your argument. No, no.
Environment, but you said degree of dependency. That's the one that you said. Wait, you said environment, but I don't agree with the environment. Well, meaning like where the... I'm going through the acronym of what most pro-abortion arguments are. Size, level of development, environment, degree of dependency. So I always try to find which one your prior... Because every pro-abortion argument falls into one of four. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So degree of dependency. This baby is going to take from me. Are you glad your mom nurtured you for nine months in the womb?
I mean, not really, to be honest. So you wish you wouldn't have been born? I'm chill with that for sure. Huh? Hmm? You're consistent. I am. Yeah. So if you were just to be killed tomorrow, not a big deal. I'd never be. I wouldn't even be having this conversation. I think that I think I think that this is important because 40 years ago, an average woman would not have answered it that way.
They would have said, my life is beautiful, my life has meaning, my life has purpose, and I'm glad my mom sacrificed for me. I don't think that's the case for every single woman 40 years ago. Well, the vast majority of women 40 years ago were not as depressed, not as suicidal. No, I think you can argue now the vast majority is still the same way. She's, yeah, inconsistent. I'm inconsistent as hell. Do you think that she's the mainstream opinion or do you think she's a fringe opinion? No, she's a fringe opinion. Okay, fair enough. For sure. I like fringe. It feels good. Okay.
Completely. Do you think she's a mainstream opinion or a fringe opinion? It's pretty fringe. Okay. I'm fine with that. That doesn't bother me at all. Does anyone else have opinions on this matter? If I were to say that abortion was illegal in America tomorrow, that would be worrisome to you guys?
Yeah, 100%. Tell me why. When we say pro-abortion, I don't think that that's necessarily accurate for how I feel. I think I'm pro-choice because people are probably going to get abortions anyways. I would prefer them be safe. It's not something I would necessarily do for myself, but I do think if it's going to be happening, which it is,
It should be safe and it should be something that everyone talks about and everyone's educated on beforehand. So in Texas, they just outlawed abortion. Abortion rates have gone down dramatically. So it's not totally true. It's half true. They're going to other states to get them. But the birth rate's gone up. So it's like this idea that people are going to find them otherwise. Sometimes they just have the baby instead. Are you more concerned with the birth rate going up?
Well, all of it. The morality of it is the number one issue, which we do not have a moral obligation to terminate human beings smaller than us. So I have a question for you. So if it was scientifically proven, like 100%, without a doubt, that you don't have a consciousness, you don't feel pain until the day you come out the womb, you're fine with any and all types of abortions all of a sudden? No, no. Consciousness, that's her argument. My argument is that at the point of your DNA's creation, a new soul is entering the world.
And the soul transcends reason. And I'll prove it to you guys. So you're saying soul and consciousness aren't related? No, not at all. We know that, at least in the religious realm, because when your consciousness ceases, your soul lives. Oh, okay. Because it goes to an afterlife. In a religious context. I'm not going to win you over on a modern context on that. Okay, I'll keep my mouth shut. Sorry. No, but let me try to win you over. Because there are points when we all see beauty when our reason or our consciousness is not able to describe them.
I was at a loss for words. That sunset was so beautiful. It took my breath away. It was breathtaking. At times, there are things that hit us on a soul level. We all know this. When we hear a certain song, see a certain painting, experience natural beauty, that touch us on a level that cannot always be described using our reasonable faculties.
And I know we all have had those when you go to Yosemite, when you see a sunset in Santa Barbara, all of a sudden you're like, wow, that is that that touches me at a level that is eternal and beautiful and is divine. My argument is that every being at the time of creation, which is when the sperm and egg meet, when the deoxyribonucleic acid is formed, that being has a soul.
And if you don't make the soul argument, then you make the consciousness argument. And it's easy to make that because it's just we're all we're not. I think our being is more than just a bunch of brain cells. Well, no, I think we have souls as well. Along with the when does the soul enter the being when you are created? So I would say so. So, I mean, you're indifferent towards allowing a soul to be dismissed without because they'll move on. Because I fully believe a soul move on to another. So that's interesting. So what was wrong with Auschwitz?
I mean, that was just horrible. Why? That's an insane question. So the Jewish souls were going to another place. What's wrong with that? No, no, no. Because they were being tortured. Well, no. Let's say the death was quick. No, no. It wasn't, though. Let's not play stupid here. Okay, let's just... A lot of deaths were incidents of execution. If the death was... No, they were starved. Well, some were. But let me just... Let me rephrase it then. Some...
What an insane thing to say. Some. Well, yes, some Jews were immediately killed when they got off of the rail cars. No, they were tortured. They were tearing away from their families. Let me ask you a different question, though. If the death was seamless and without pain and immediate, is that okay? Can you just pull away from the rail car?
in the Auschwitz argument because that is insane to compare that to. Well, no, you just said that the soul goes to another place and that's fine. Yes, but it's not about the soul. It's also about the living being. Oh, so it's about the form of death. No, it's about the living being and what they experience. But I don't fully believe that fetuses experiencing a living life until they have consciousness and I don't believe that they do until, what, 22 weeks. When you have a 14-week abortion at Planned Parenthood in Southern California...
They offer for an additional fee pain medication for the fetus. I'm... I'm... So they're... The data assumes... I knew... Nobody can ask them, but the data assumes that at 14 weeks, which is legal, California's 20 weeks, right? At 14, the data shows that the fetus can feel pain and struggle, so they offer for an additional fee. You can either get pain medication for your fetus as you abort it, or you can get a pizza. Okay, so then... So...
For a pizza? It's about 40 bucks extra to get pain medication for your fetus. But women also have to get an IUD with no pain medication. Terrible, too. The medical industry derived towards women is not fair. If there were less abortions in America, would that be a good thing?
Yes. Of course, the question is how we get there. That's a good question. How do we get there? Birth control. Education. Yes. So the more birth control that has happened... And education. And education. The more birth control we've had in the West, the more abortions we have because people have more... People need to be implemented like self-control. How about this radical idea? What if people waited to have sex when they got married? That will never happen. Why? Because people want to...
I waited for marriage. I mean, it was amazing. That's amazing for you, but you are not. I know it's not easy, but that's a good question. Let me get to this though. Do those of you that haven't, I'm guessing you've all haven't waited until you got married. Do you wish you did? No.
No, no. Do any of you wish you... So in the ideal, if I could paint a world for you that you only shared your sexual experience with one person that was your soulmate, that's not interesting to you? No. Oh, that's cool. Wait, you guys don't regret any of the men you've slept with? I don't believe in soulmates. You don't believe in soulmates? Not necessarily. How about best friend?
No. You don't believe in best friends? I've had a lot of best friends in my life. Perfect match. No. I don't think that exists either. You meet so many people throughout your lifetime. You guys are so jaded. I do think the sex is better when you're in love. You meet so many people throughout your lifetime. So jaded. At least we're consistent. No, you're very consistent. You can have multiple soulmates. Multiple soulmates. I was saying, with as big as the world is, you're not going to necessarily find exactly one person. Because you're going to grow throughout your life. We're changing all the time. And sometimes people don't grow with you.
But if that person were to grow with you, then that's... So then if it's not a soulmate, I mean it's not facetiously, then what is the purpose of marriage? I don't agree. I wouldn't do a legal marriage to come into a union. Is marriage even a thing that we should care about? If you got divorced, and I don't wish that, but if you got divorced in 10 years, what do you think of that? I mean, I don't think that will happen. It's not even a hypothetical I want to entertain. Charlie, do you think secular people should get married?
I think everyone should get married. I think it makes you a better person. What I find interesting, though, is that you've said it best. If you have as much sex as you want before, and marriage really doesn't mean much, does it? No. Do you think America was a better country when people waited to have sex before?
when they got married. You think everyone did that in America? No, it was the vast majority of women in the 50s and 60s would not have premarital sex. I don't think we have the technology to prove that, though. We don't have the data that we would have. I think a lot of women are still having sex outside of marriage. First of all, talk to your grandparents' generation. We have studies. We have surveys. And we know this, by the way, because birth control wasn't that widespread. Yeah, but you can still have sex without getting pregnant. Yeah.
Right, but we know. There's like times a month with ovulation. But hold on a second. So let's just, you do not think that people are having more premarital sex today than they were 60 years ago? I'm sure they are. No, they definitely are. Okay, all right. But that doesn't mean they weren't at all before. So I'm asking, do you think that's a good thing or a bad thing, that people are having more premarital sex? I personally don't like it. I don't like hookup culture at all. You don't like hookup culture, but you're not regretting sleeping with a bunch of guys before a soulmate. Help me understand. Yeah.
Okay, hold on. A bunch of guys is crazy. Hold on. And you don't like hookup culture, but you also do OnlyFans. So help me understand all this. Okay, so my body count is six. And two of those I was in a relationship with. The third one I thought I was going to be in a relationship with. And the three before that, all of my friends were hooking up with guys. So I thought, like, oh, that's what I need to do.
because they're all hooking up, so this is the normal thing. I should be hooking up. And I realized very quickly, I don't like hooking up with random men. Do any of you think that women are being harmed by hookup culture? Yes. I agree. So you all agree with that, but then you say that...
No, you don't think men are being, you don't think women are being harmed by horticulture? No. Okay. Wait, what? We'll get that in a second. However, so then why don't all of you make a commitment that you're going to save yourself for marriage? You could do that. Society might not have to. Because I'm already past the point. Well, you can always become a new version of yourself. What's done is done, but you could say, I'm now going to save myself from this point forward. I don't want to be a victim.
to be new version. I want to be me and they accept me for me. What is me? What is that? Whatever I've done in the past and up to this point. So there's no improvement?
I don't need to improve necessarily. You don't need to improve, okay. Hold on. I don't need to hide what I've done. No, I'm not saying hide. But for example, bad example, if one is an alcoholic and they go through AA, and no, it's okay, and then you become a new version of yourself. That's growth, right? Yeah, that's growth, but they should still know what I've done. Of course they know. They know it, but I'm not saying you hide it. I'm asking the question, what is the argument against any of you young ladies saying, you know what?
I'm no longer going to have premarital sex. I'm going to wait till marriage hookup culture is destructive. I'm going to find a man who values with me. He's never been with another partner and I'm going to start a new chapter. What is the argument against that? Um, because then you're going to come on this podcast and we're going to have a two hour long conversation about how if everybody waited in the drive-thru and they paid a hundred dollars, why is a man got to pay $2? You're going to, it's a conversation they have on here about everybody being reborn. They're like,
Oh, so if you wait now, everyone's already done it. It's not fair to the next man. They have this conversation every podcast. I'm not tracking your argument. No, it's not really an argument necessarily. She's just giving an example about the fact that like if I don't, you know, all these people are going to participate in this anyways. Oh, I got it. You're kind of going to get on it. Yeah, you're going to get treated like garbage whether you do it or not. So you think you'll be treated like garbage if you don't have premarital sex? Oh, easily.
Well, I just think maybe potentially the next guy wouldn't want to wait because they might be like, oh, but everyone else shouldn't have to wait. Do you think that you have any leverage over the men in your relationships? What do men want more than anything else? Probably sex. Why don't you stop giving it to them?
Nobody's giving it to anyone. What are you talking about? Well, you said in your relationships you guys had premarital sex. But you could also not participate in hookup culture and also decide to not wait until marriage. Those things don't have to be. You're right. They're not synonymous. But then if you aren't waiting until marriage, then you're basically saying marriage means nothing. That's effectively what you're saying. Not necessarily. But then what is marriage? Marriage is not about sex. It's more than sex. You're right. But what is marriage about?
It's a bond between two people. It's the person that you choose to have a family with. I agree. But can't you have a bond without marriage? If you meet someone who you don't want to have a family with, but you're actually in love or whatever, and you want to have sex, you should be able to. And that's not hookup culture. Of course you should be able to. I'm not saying what you... I'm arguing what one ought to do, not what you're able to do. Able and ought are two different words. Able, fine. You have the freedom to do it. Of course, yeah. I'm saying in the ideal...
What is the argument against the women of America saying, men, you have to marry me to be able to sleep with me? But also, why... You should ask your co-host right here, because he doesn't want to get married. Yeah, I don't want to get married. You know, look, maybe I might have... I'm a super trad guy, so excuse my question. Me and Charlie aren't going to agree on everything. Yes, but...
I do think that sexual compatibility is important in a marriage. Because that was one of the biggest pieces of tension with my ex-husband. I mean, we had a sexless marriage. Yeah, that's a problem. Yeah, I guess. I mean, my new husband and I, I mean, we waited a while. And you said that he was more of a femboy, right? The first one? Or like more feminine, right? Femboy, yeah. Hero.
He wasn't necessarily a hero. He was a big, tall Mexican, but I made a lot more than he did. Can I ask, do you think that men should wait until marriage or just women? Absolutely. Okay, because I agree with that then. If women have to wait, men should wait as well. I think that America, there's a lot of problems in America. One of the problems has been that sex in its ideal is waited in a holy setting between a male and female that share that experience only with men.
their life partner. Now there's exceptions, there's mistakes, but if we just throw it all out the window and say men won't like me and hookup culture, I think there's a lot of damage and a lot of ramifications for that. And again, the, the, the point being is this is I believe firmly young ladies are damaged mentally by having too many sexual partners. Okay. No, they're not. I think men are to hookup culture hurts.
women far more than it hurts men. Oh, I agree. It hurts women more, but I think men are like, I don't think men realize how damaging it is as well to them. Maybe. Of course, there's damage to all people, but men are wired differently where many sexual partners for men does not hurt men nearly as much as many sexual partners for women because women are far more relational driven and far more bond driven. So they look at sex as a culmination of a bond where men look at it as sex, as sexism.
Physical, purely, not always with those other elements, unless there is a component of we're going to try to develop a long-lasting bond here. So do you think that men have driven hookup culture then because they don't care about it as much? I think that it's both. I think women are driving it too. I think it's both. But you're saying that when women have sex, they need to have that bond and they're more concerned with— That's how they're wired.
Yeah, so women are wired to want to have a bond when they're having sex with someone. That's correct. But men don't care. So would you not think that men are driving hookup culture then? No, I think both sides are. I mean, I think that men are driving because women are making themselves available. That's the point. Because they think it's going to be a longer bond. Yeah. No, of course. And women should know male nature before they start sleeping around with men. So is it a woman's fault?
It's both. It's both. If every woman today that was marketable, and all of you guys are on the market, correct, looking for life partners? I've never been on the market. Okay. But if every one of you, it's simple supply and demand. If you said we're off limits until the ring is there and the priest says the final vows, how would men react hypothetically?
That would decrease half the dating pool probably at least. I totally disagree because we know what that world looks like. We used to have it 50 or 60 years ago. You know what? Men grow up quicker. They stop being man, child, and infants. So you're one of the ones who also probably argues against like there's like sexual chemistry and stuff like that. You probably argue no, that's not real. No, I think sexual chemistry is a real thing, but it's a culmination of...
different types of love that are not just erotic. There are deeper types of love that transcend the physical. Physical is part of it. Sexual compatibility, as you say, is a huge part of the relationship. But all of you know this, you could have a partner where you had great sex and you have nothing in common. That's not a relationship. That's an orgasm and a one night stand or whatever. That's a situationship.
Yeah, okay. Fine. A situationship. That's not something to build a life around. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Okay. So, no, we're not disagreeing. I just... Without legislation or big decrees, I...
I know this, that men have very primal, undeveloped, immature sexual natures and that is not going to change. So should women be punished for men taking advantage of women for that? No, I'm not saying, I'm not punishing, I'm not talking about anything. I'm talking about cultural stuff, not legislation or punishment. No, I'm asking about hookup culture again, but... But if women want a man that they are worthy of, and many of you are not getting men you are worthy of, then you need to then stop giving the one thing that men want the most.
And that is unlimited amounts of sex all the time, bodies on the internet, because men will only view you as a visual stimulation and they'll move on. And if you disagree, you do not understand male nature. But the thing is, men will treat you like that and talk to you like that whether you want to do it or not. Because these two don't do OF. I do OF. Their Twitch chats are just as degenerate as mine because people come in there and say the most horrible things. You're all very talented. You're smart. You guys shouldn't be doing any of that.
You shouldn't. Stop doing it. Twitch? What do you mean? We play video games. I'm saying this as someone who cares about humanity. Stop selling your body on the internet. We're playing video games. Yeah, we play World of Warcraft online. You say you're an OnlyFans? Yes. I do. They don't. And they get just as horrible comments as I do. No, that's not.
I'm saying. Okay. But no, you're making my argument. Men's sexual nature is very degenerative. And I'm saying that. How do you lift it up? You lift it up by saying you don't get what you want the most until you commit. But the thing is, is to hold on. So hold on. So you are then, you need to lead men towards a better future. Because I'm not doing anything more crazy than they are. Okay.
Isn't that fair? I'm not doing anything more crazy than that. I'm not trying to ridicule you guys. No, I don't care. You can say whatever you want. But I'm saying they're getting the same degenerate comments that I am on Twitch streams. Because you're now seeing a window into men's sexual nature. And that's what I'm saying. So how then do you lift it up? Do you lift it up by giving more sex and more bodies? They're always going to treat us this way. That's interesting. They're always going to treat us this way. No, no, no, that's not true. Yes, they will. Let me tell you. Yes, they will. Men can grow up.
But they need a goal. No, this is very... If you don't believe that, then you basically are dismissing all of humanity. It's not that I can't believe that men will go, but it's that... Men love being useful. This is fine. Men want a purpose. They want to go on an adventure. And so if you say, you can be with me, but here's the rules of the road. Okay, but I'm on the internet and there's how many thousands of hundreds of millions of men on the internet? I can't fix all of them. I'm not asking you to fix all of them. You want to change the world? Start with changing you. It doesn't matter. They're not even...
I'm doing OF and they're still getting treated like garbage. Hold on. So, again, if you believe that what you do doesn't matter, then you're a nihilist and just do whatever you want. It's not even about me doing OF. It's about the way that men treat you when you're a woman. So this is the point, though, is that how do you get treated better by men? Do you show...
One sec. Let me ask you a question. Do you think you get treated by men better by showing more skin or less skin? Obviously, if you show less skin. Okay, so you agree. But hold on, because even when you show less skin, there's women in full-blown covered-up burkas, and they still get sexualized. They still get acid thrown on them. They still get onwarded in the middle of the street. Like, what are you talking about? Okay, I don't agree with that at all. That's crazy. So men's sexual nature on the Internet, you are seeing a window into the depraved.
Because there's no guardrails and there's no guidelines. So how do you... One second. How do you lift up that primal, carnal sexual nature towards something that is no longer... Why is that my responsibility to lift up their... Hold on. Well, it's not your responsibility. It's humanity's responsibility. But...
I would imagine you want a life partner at some point. Yes? No? I'll figure it out when they come to me. I'm not going to... Let me tell you, doing OnlyFans, you're not going to find a life partner. That's totally fine. I don't care. Yes, she is, though. Come on. No, no, that's your point. Hold on a second. There is so many people who want to marry her. If you think that you can find a virtuous, ethical man who tells the truth by showing a lot of skin online, you do not understand male sexual nature. You do not. I don't profess to know female sexual nature. So we talked...
about this a little bit. Men want what they cannot see and they cannot have. Men want rarity, scarcity, and mystery. They do not want abundance and cleavage and skin. Can we get the same for men? Can you guys stop sledding it up, please? I'm not saying... I am asking... I mean, men have plenty of... What have I just said? I said men's sexual nature is degenerative. I couldn't be more, like, cruel on...
males primal carnal instincts. The question is how do you lift us up to something better? Yes. So we talked about this before. What's the difference between, so she does only lingerie pictures, right? So what's the difference between her and like Gigi Hadid or like any Victoria's Secret model, right? Well, there's not, I mean, is Gigi Hadid in a really great relationship and doing great? I mean, I believe one of them has like clinical depression. She's dating Bradley Cooper, I think. Most celebrity relationships last like what, six or seven years, maybe? Yeah.
Well, your point is that they what they divorce more often or what? I mean, I'm asking if you want. Are you saying she again, if you're looking for celebrities for life partner roadmaps, you're looking at the wrong people. OK, I mean, I'm asking. So you're you're fine with comparing that and being like, oh, yeah, they're both not.
they can't find high value men or whatever. I am very short on their long-term prospects of being a couple for the next 30 years. I mean, if that's their question, but if you, if you do not have to create a new roadmap, when women were more modest in their presentations, when women were more humble in their, um, in their, in their life, woman being humble, or was that also the laws of the day and age where they could know in the 1950s, the laws were fine. I mean, you couldn't
you couldn't get a divorce because you never had a job. You couldn't, you couldn't get out of the relationship. What are you talking about? No fault divorce ended in the 60s or 70s. You could still get a divorce. It just was harder. Yeah, but you had no job. You had no prospects. You had nothing. You had children to take care of. That's a separate issue. I don't, you're getting too far off track. I just, I'm asking a theoretical question. If,
If more women than not made a commitment that we want a life partner, I think the reason why you all and women are willing to engage in hookup culture, even though I know it's destructive. Hold on a second. Even though you know it's bad for you is because deep down women tend to be more insecure than men. And you think that you can get praise from men by doing this and it gives you temporary security and you're willing to then sacrifice long-term viability of finding a life partner for that temporary security. You also expect that on me? I don't.
I don't engage in hookup culture at all. Okay, that's fine. I'm just saying more broadly though. Stop the cap. More broadly, if women were willing to actually say that I am not going to present myself online, I'm not going to get myself, you would actually have more male suitors, not less. I'm not worried about that. I'm not worried about more or less male suitors. How about good ones, great ones, ones that you feel as if this is the best man I've ever met? I'll get there when I need to get there.
Great men are hard to find. They are. I can say this. And I'll get there when I need to get there. Being around a lot of men. Okay. And I'll get there when I need to get there. So let me ask you, what is more important in your life? Good career or great marriage and family? I want my bills paid, so whatever takes the cake. Well, a good husband can pay the bills too. Yeah. And I'm not necessarily looking for a good husband right now because I'm not looking around. Okay.
Any other thoughts on that? Sorry, I kind of dominated there. If you want, keep going. I guess I am pretty jaded on this conversation. I didn't get to do the introductions, but I do OnlyFans management. And I think so I read a lot of messages. I'm not on the site myself, but I read a lot of messages. And it kind of sucks because you see so many messages coming in daily that are like, I wish I wasn't with my ugly wife right now. You're so much hotter. So like for me as someone who's single and like,
in their 20s, it's hard to be like, yeah, I'm going to be a really perfect woman for these kind of men. Does that make sense? I'm going to be honest. I even got that being on your podcast. I even got a message on my OnlyFans from your podcast being like, my girlfriend is so disgusting. I don't like her. I subbed your OnlyFans because you're so much better than her. It's really hard to see both these conversations. No, that's okay. But you're actually...
proving my point is you're seeing a window into the depraved male sexual nature. So then you have a choice. You can say, forget all men and become a lesbian and like, just forget it. Right. I don't do that. I'm not saying you want to do that. Right. Or you could be like, I actually think that men have a proper role in society. Most men today are grown infants and women have a, a, you don't agree with that. Well, no, I agree that they're grown infants, but it's not my job to fix you. I'm not saying it's your job to fix you. It's your, it's, you have a moral obligation not to make it worse.
Well, how am I making it worse? Because I have an OnlyFans? Yeah, I'd say that you're participating in that. Okay, so what exactly have you... It's all your fault. No, I'm not saying it's all your fault. It's a lot, Julie. But I'm saying this as agreeably as I can.
If you are producing sexually explicit content online, you are increasing the supply, not decreasing the supply. So even if I didn't have an OnlyFans... Even though you're a small part of it, I get it. Okay, even if I didn't have an OnlyFans, the comments that I've gotten on all of my social media without it have been even more degrading than the comments I've gotten on.
But you're blaming the comments for your action, not not taking responsibility for your action. No, no. Because even if I post a selfie of just my face, I'm like, I want to come all over that. I'm like, I mean, a cookie. OK, but but again, you're seeing you're seeing a window into the depraved sexual nature. And how is that my issue? Fix it yourself, you weirdo. OK, but you're right. That could be an attitude. And that has been the attitude the last 30 years. Where has it gotten us?
Less people married, less people in happy relationships. So both sides have work to do. If you were a panel of men, I'd be talking completely different. Are you saying it's a woman's...
It's both. A job to fix men from being depraved? I have both. I have an entire chapter of this book about how we should ban pornography. Can you sign that for me later? I'll buy it. You're getting close to earning it. I earned it. I earned it. But no, I have an entire chapter of this book on how men need to stop watching pornography and stop being... No, I agree. I don't watch pornography at all. I don't think anyone should. Both sides have growth to do, but we're here at a female-driven panel, so I'm trying to... Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. Hold on. Let me...
Anyway, I... Yes, I'm way over time, but yeah. You want to ban pornography? Yes. I agree. I totally agree. You agree? I agree. So you're an OnlyFans, so help me reconcile that. Yeah, but I don't do pornography. Is it lingerie, you said? Yeah. It's borderline, but yeah. Yeah, borderline, but it's a Victoria's Secret model. Fair enough. Yeah, okay. You do OnlyFans. Are you in favor? Do you object to Charlie's position on banning porn? Um, yeah. Which would...
You're in favor of it? You earned a book with your stance. Wait, do you mean like if I'm against it? Is that Kit Kat Julie? Julie. He wants to ban porn, so you'd be banning what you do. Oh, that's nice. I'm so excited. I say, Julie, ban porn. Yes. I'm taking this all the way back. I'm taking this all the way back to
Canada. It literally says Julie Banfield. Back to Canada. All the way back to Canada. Speaking of Canada, Charlie, do you think we should annex Canada? No. No, I don't want Canada. Nobody wants Canada. I hate it there, too. Don't worry. Do you have time for just a few more questions? Yeah, I got like five minutes. Five minutes is okay. That was really good, though, guys. But think about it. I'm just saying that you have to then act in the direction of the man you want.
And men have to act in the direction of the woman they want. I agree. And at some point, maybe romantically, we can meet halfway. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. Thanks so much for listening and God bless. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.
