The Debates that Flipped Arizona: Charlie's "Prove Me Wrong" at GCU
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I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here.

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Hello. Yeah. OK, so I split my ticket probably around 50 50 voted for Democrats and Republicans. I am pro choice. I just have a hard time voting for Republicans when their sole issue is being pro life. I don't know how to articulate it, but what would what's like your I don't know, like stance or.

What would you say to Republicans that they will die on the hill of it must be pro-life, there's no pro-choice, it can't be anything but pro-life? And do you think it's worth taking down the whole Republican Party for being pro-life? Wow. Well, you're looking at one, but that's okay. I would look into Margaret Sanger and what she was really about. She's the founder of Planned Parenthood. I think abortions have been...

a thing before the whole Planned Parenthood. It's not just Planned Parenthood. Well, let's talk about the United States of America, the country that you live in. I do live here, yeah. Okay, well, then you need to look into Margaret Sanger. Look at Project 1916. But I'm not talking just about Planned Parenthood. You are talking about abortion. You are talking about Republicans. I mean, we need to either stand for something or you stand for nothing. If you can't protect human life, I don't know if there's anything more important to stand. I don't think there is.

And if you think there is, please tell me. Yeah, and I want to hear you. I'm going to ask you some, is it okay with you if I ask you a couple very simple questions? Is that okay? Yeah, but I'm just saying, like, I'm not well-versed. That's okay. No, this is as simple as it gets because you say you're pro-choice, so you've obviously thought a little bit about the topic, right? When does human life begin? Good question. I would say at conception. Okay, if it's at conception, then shouldn't it be illegal to kill the human life? No.

I don't know, but it's how the circumstances come to the fetus being conceived. Well, okay, so the circumstances. So that's interesting. So less than 1% of all abortions. But I think that's important to talk about those 1% of abortions. Let's get to it. I believe it should be illegal in those, but I want to try to first... I understand. Let's work our way up to it, and maybe I can have you think differently about it. Sure. Would you then say we should make the abortions illegal for all the other non-rape, non-incest, non-life of the mother instances? Yes.

I don't, I can't talk to all. Right. So, but the method of conception at 99.4% of the time is two people that consent to having sex. It's not rape. It's not forced. Okay. What was the question? Like what? No, I know. But you said method of, would you agree that we, we just keep abortion legal for rape, incest, life of the mother, but illegal if it's just a form of birth control to people that say. No, because I don't think that there's like a social.

Net for these women. Well, OK, so now it's a different argument. That's OK. So let's extrapolate that and I will get to the rape issue. If there is no social safety net, is it OK to murder somebody if you can't afford? I don't believe it's murder. But you said it's a human life. So what is it?

Again, I was kind of more yes or no question with the whole contraception. I'm not what conception. That's OK. So let me try to win you over on the rape thing. Sure. OK, I'm open to like. No, for sure. Let's say I have two ultrasounds here. One ultrasound.

Is a baby conceived in rape? I also think it's important. Another woman who's one second. OK. Another ultrasound is a baby that was conceived in a loving couple relationship. Can you tell which one is which? No. OK. Somebody in this audience was conceived in rape. Who is it?

You can't tell because human rights don't stop just based on the method of your conception So those of pro-lifers we believe human rights are universal granted by God because we're all image bearers made an image of God Therefore your life should be protected regardless of how you came into the world. Okay, I just what about shouldn't it be up to the woman to choose? Okay is but if it's not if it's not your DNA, why is it your choice? I

Because it's in your body? Got it. So just because it's temporarily inside of you, is that your being? She's caring for it. Got it. So I have a six-month-old son. Should I be able to murder that son? No. We're caring for it. So why is it the standard doesn't apply to my six-month-old son, but it would at a six-week baby in utero? I don't know. I just think it should be the woman's choice. Is it okay? Because the repercussions of the woman who's been raped...

Again, that's less than 1% of the instances. I still think it's important to talk about because it does occur. No, of course, but I want to make sure, just grant you. So let's say it wasn't a rape situation. But why do we just go to the easy topic, I think? Well, because it's 99.4% of all instances. Exactly, but what about the rape issues? No, no, I agree it should be illegal because a human life is a human life, yes? And so let me just ask one final question. You agree it's a human life in there?

It starts human life, yes. Yeah, so shouldn't we give that human human rights? I don't know. I just think we need to know about... Okay. I'm just here to hear an explanation. I just think we should... It shouldn't just be so black and white. Is murder black and white? No. If I were to put a gun up to Rob's head...

And pull the trigger. If my grandparents went up to a Nazi and shot the Nazi in the back of the head in Nazi Germany, that's coming after their life. Hold on a second. Is an unborn baby in utero an equivalent to a Nazi? No, I never said it was. I don't know why you're trying to make this jump to it. You just brought up you're bringing a gun to his head. So I'm just saying that this should be illegal, yeah? Yeah. But why should this be legal? Are you taking a gun to the...

Fetus in utero? Well, they are taking... You know what happens in an abortion? They break the back of the baby. Is that the same with abortion pills? Well, the abortion pill is actually even more graphic. It actually starves the baby of nutrients, and the baby is quivering in pain and trembling for days on end as the progesterone goes down to nothing, and then the baby is forcibly discharged over a toilet called a chemical abortion. I'm sorry, which weeks? Are we, like, what...

Well, it's between between three to 10 weeks. Chemical abortions are legal in all 50 states. It's called the abortion pill, which is actually more dangerous for women than even surgical abortions. But I just want to be clear, though, is that should we have a different moral standard for abortion than we do for people outside of the womb?

That's a question I need to think about, yeah. Okay, that's good. Because here's our position. Our position is that it's wrong to murder Rob now and also when Rob was five weeks in the womb. Okay. It's always wrong to murder Rob. You're welcome, Rob. Thank you. And by the way... You would have missed Ben's warmers and happy Gilmore, too. Let me tell you...

Let me tell you why. Because universal human equality doesn't stop based on your size, your level of development, your environment or your degree of dependency. Yeah. It's just what about the women that want to perform an abortion at home? That's even worse. I mean, yeah, but so it's still going to occur. Why? OK, no, that's an interesting question. If if rapes rape is illegal. Yes. Yes. But rapes still occur. Should it still be illegal?

Yes. So therefore, that is not the good argument. Just because things will still occur. But why can't we provide them with a safe environment to perform? Because there is no safe abortion because it ends in murder. For the woman. Well, it's also not safe. For the person carrying the baby. It's also not safe for the woman either. Abortion is very traumatic for the individual. Women are bleeding out at record rates. Emergency room visits are up nearly 2,000% for a woman with the abortion pill.

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Well, no, it's okay. I just want to ask one morally defining issue, which maybe we can find common ground on. Okay? And this is not a... Let me ask you a simple question, then a more deeper one.

A woman usually says, I'm having a baby. Yes? Okay. Right. Why is it okay that we accept that one woman can say she's having a baby and another woman can say, clump of cells, I can terminate it? Why should morality be subjective in that? That it's just the person could decide what the being is? I don't think that deeply about morality.

terminology being used to describe so it's not it's okay it's not terminology it's basic fundamental human morality and let me tell you i don't think it is no okay so if if if a mom says i want to murder my adult kids or baby kids why not it's her choice she's larger she's dependent they're dependent on her are you asking me a question yeah so if a mom is a two-year-old the two-year-old's annoying why can't she murder that two-year-old it's against the law

So shouldn't abortion also be against the law since it's illegal to murder a two-year-old? No, I don't think so. Okay, final question. A woman finds out she's having a baby with Down syndrome. Should she be legal to abort that baby based on information? Yes, it should be illegal.

Oh yes, it should be illegal? It should be illegal. Okay good, we agree. A woman finds out she's having a boy but she wants a girl. I just don't know where we're going with all these hypothetical questions. These aren't hypothetical. Just so you know, in Iceland it is the law to abort a baby if you find it has Down syndrome. Most Eastern European countries are sent to insane asylums and the parents never see them ever again. I'm just saying. No, I'm saying these are not hypothetical. These are real situations. So our position is that a human life is a human life regardless of its size.

Can you understand where we're coming from? No, I totally get where you're coming from. We have over a million and a half murders a year, and we call it health care. Thank you for your time. Are you a Christian, by the way? No. Okay, I can tell. Thank you very much. Hi there, Charlie. Um...

As a Ukrainian-American, I'm really concerned in Trump's plan and how he's going to address the conflict. So would you like to tell me, enlighten me what his overall argument is? On Ukraine? Yes, correct. Would you like to – I can go very deep on this if you'd like. I would just like to say in general – I talked a lot previously, sir.

In general, I just want to say that the Ukraine war needs to end. And in any divorce, you're not going to get everything in Ukraine that you want, and neither is Russia. But we can't continue the slaughter. We can no longer afford to continue the slaughter. As people are stressed about the election, in Ukraine, people are stressed about are they going to live until the end of the day? Are they going to be able to make it to go shopping? Are they going to have food? And my grandmother is from Ukraine.

I want the Ukraine war to end and I want it. And it's not going to be perfect and you're not going to get everything you want. But to continue the slaughter while Congress people can profit off it by investing in. And Biden said, we're not giving the money to Ukraine. It's just going down the street to a military industrial complex. That is not OK. We need to end that war. And I'm sorry if Ukraine is not going to get everything they want. We can no longer continue the slaughter. And in my and all I pray.

That when Trump comes president, first thing he does is we come to a peaceful agreement. There's not going to be everything that you want. It's not going to be perfect for Ukraine. It's not going to be perfect for Russia. But the slaughter, the needless slaughter needs to end. Yeah. So there was a peace deal on the table five days into the war that the Biden administration rejected. That would have been half of the land that Russia currently controls. Half of it.

it. And Biden torpedoed that. Yeah. And because of that, hundreds of thousands of people have died, as you well know, tens of thousands of military age men. So we should end the war. Russia is going to get basically all the Donbass. They would have gotten half of it if we would have accepted those terms. And yeah, look, Ukraine is not a good ally of ours. They're a super corrupt country. The Ukrainian people are great. Zelensky is awful. And Putin should not be an enemy of the United States. Now, we'll just say what Obama said was he said that Ukraine is not a national security interest of the United States and is

during when he was president. And I would agree with that. But at the same time, we know it's a human, it's also a human rights issue. And the human rights are the needless slaughter of those people there. It's a very corrupt country. And finally, I mean, Trump under Obama, under Bush, Putin took parts of Georgia. Under Obama, he took Crimea. Under Biden, he took the Donbass. Under Trump, he did nothing. Because Trump exhibited peace through strength and reopened diplomatic channels and he'll do it again. Okay. Um...

Do you think it's kind of like slapping a Band-Aid on a bigger issue, though? Because if you just give them Donbass and the eastern regions, there's no guarantee they won't do it again and just take more of the piece of the pie that they want. Well, again, why didn't they do that when Trump was president?

Well, that's what he decided not to do at that given time. I don't know why he does. We have to take we have to take a risk of peace. We must take a risk of peace. I would just say for people don't understand that Ukraine, NATO was never supposed to be allowed to be in Ukraine. And they just kept pushing and pushing and pushing under Frank Baker. What they were the Bush won his administration when they talked to Gorbachev. He says not 10 feet past Poland.

In other words, we are not going to push NATO up. Can you imagine what's happening for Russia is if we had China had missiles in Mexico pointing towards Texas, how long would those last there?

About 45 minutes. And yet so Russia has a right as well as a as a country that has the same GDP as Texas, by the way, and more nuclear weapons than anybody else. We do not want to push Russia to where what this Secretary Blinken wanted to do was to have missiles, American missiles launched deep into Russia. I do not want any of you here in this have to go to war over there.

I will do everything in my power to make sure that we don't do that. And that includes not doing everything I can, being here today, to make sure that Kamala Harris does not get into office to push those things to happen. Because we are very much in danger of expanding that war. So we should please, I beg you to consider not voting for Kamala Harris. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. How are you doing? Yeah.

All right, so I'm just wondering, with the abortion, right, I would say life is where you're considered to be alive when you get your birth certificate. Yes or no? No. That's when you're born. Okay. That's why it's called a birth certificate and a life certificate. Why don't we get it before that then? I'm trying to have a respectful conversation with you. Well, because you're not born because you're still attached to an umbilical cord, but you're breathing. You have a heartbeat, fingerprint, DNA. You can hear sounds. You have sensory emotions. You're alive. You're just not born.

That's why it's called a birthday, not a life day. So God gives you, it's from God, it's a gift from God, your life. It's not from the state. And that's the problem with this administration, I believe. Yeah, and so are you a Christian? Yes, no, maybe. It's okay. So those that are Christian understand Jesus leapt in the womb of Mother Mary when heard John the Baptist's voice and Elizabeth's voice. Was Jesus alive when he was in Mary's womb? Of course he was. Right? That's in Luke 1. And so it's like Jesus didn't magically become alive because a baby leaps in a womb once you're born. Yeah.

Your birth certificate is when you're born, not when your date of conception or when you came into this world started. So you would say life is considered at, what, nine weeks? No, no, no, no. Conception. Do you know what conception is? I do. What is conception? Well, having sex. Well, no, not necessarily. It's when the egg is fertilized. Yeah, it's when the egg is fertilized and attaches to the uterine wall. Look it up online. There's a flash of light in a human baby. It's very unique. You see the human. It's a flash of light. That same flash of light also went through when Christ died.

Rose again from the dead. That flash of light is on the Shroud of Turin. That's the receipt of Jesus Christ's sacrifice for all of us, for all of our sins. Let me tell you why. So everything from your skin color to your hair color to your height to your likes, your wants, your interests, your tastes, your desires, whether you're an introvert, extrovert, all started at conception. You know why? It's your DNA.

Your DNA is formed. You are not your mom. You're not your dad. You're a whole new being. And so science has proved this over a course of time that that is your starting point. Does that make sense? Okay, so with a baby with Down syndrome, if the mother receives that information and she will not be able to afford that child any longer...

You don't think abortion should be allowed to happen at that point? No, I mean, we have social safety nets. You could also put the baby up for adoption. Then you look at all the children still in foster care. Yes, it's a separate topic, though. But it's a related topic because that's where it comes from. It's separate. We don't believe murder is ever necessary, period. I think that's why we go to war because we fight for it. Well, murder and killing are two different things.

Okay, outright murder, yeah. Right? So the Bible has a different word for murder and a different word for killing. So, for example, the Ten Commandments, it says thou shall not murder, not thou shall not kill. Those are two different terms in Hebrew. Yeah? And so, for example, if you're in your dorm room and some guy breaks into your dorm room trying to kill you, do you have the moral right to defend yourself? Of course you do. That's not murder, though. Murder is premeditatively going to Rob, who's defenseless and not able to defend himself, and then taking his life. Does that make sense? It does.

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The trends in schools, taking that completely out of there, because we're bringing it to the extent of religion. We don't allow religion in school to that extent. I do think children should be allowed to have that knowledge on if they want to transition on what they want to do. Children, let me just tell you, if my child, if I have a boy and he thinks he's a pirate, do I have the right to cut off his knee and take an eye out and give him an eye patch?

I think once it gets to that certain point. A certain point? Like what's the point where I can cut off my son's knee and say because he thinks he's a pirate? What point is that? I think that's purely between a parent and a child. Well, I don't think a parent should be allowed to do that. If you try to do that, if I take my son over to the hospital and say, can you take off his leg, please? And if they do that, then they should lose their license to operate as a hospital. That's what I believe. I agree, but taking him to a pirate is an extension.

They don't feel comfortable in their skin. They don't feel comfortable in their gender. Hold on. I'm sorry. You want to go, Rob? No, no. A couple things. Number one, it's actually a perfect analogy he's using because they're chopping off the breasts of these young girls. Number two, there's something called the CAST study. You should read it, where you know that they've gotten rid of gender-affirming care and surgery all across Europe because the data shows it actually doesn't help the kids, and kids regret doing the transition. Yeah, only 1% to 3%.

Actually regret making the decision. No, it's the CAST report. You're incorrect. The CAST report said it was over 80% show regret. In fact, that's why the United Kingdom, which is more liberal than us, have outlawed it completely. And so instead what they're – So what is the CAST report? It's called the CAST report. It was a bipartisan United Kingdom medical report that is now spread across Europe where gender-affirming care for minors is now illegal in Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, United Kingdom. It's almost there in France. It's illegal in Belgium. We're the only country that does it.

And so let me just ask a really simple question. Do you think that if you are 16 years old, you could feel something that you might not feel when you're 20? Okay, yes. You say simple question to everything you ask, and none of them are simple questions. No, you're making it complicated because you haven't. I don't know. These are incredibly simple. You change every second.

So you might not put it the same way at 20 as you did at 16. No, yeah, if you change every second, then why should we do something irreversible to a 16-year-old? That's how they're thinking. That's how they feel. Let me just tell you, you know what these drugs are, puberty blockers? You know what that is? TRT. Okay, puberty blockers are repurposed castration drugs. And when you take a puberty blocker, you will never have a chance to have sexual satisfaction your entire life. You will get this thing. If you take it at 13, you will get this thing called a micropenis.

You guys laugh, but it's legal in this state. And they are doing it. And I'm telling you, it is the biggest child abuse in my lifetime. And this needs to stop. And this is the only country that's still doing it. The CAST report looked this up. Even the New York Times last week, the New York Times said last week that they tried to suppress this information to come out because they didn't want it to affect children.

these transitioning, these surgical transitions of kids. And let me tell you, if they're 18, you can do whatever you want with your body. But if you're 14, you do not have that right and your parents do not have that right to the church. You do not. You should have the option to go be educated and then still go and make the choice that you want to make.

Okay, not at 14. At 14, you shouldn't be able to do that. I'm sorry. At 14, can you get a tattoo legally in the state of Arizona? No. No. Your parents, even if they sign for it, you can't. Can you get a gun and get a gun license? Can you join the army? Can you drink alcohol? Can you drive? No. Why? Because you're not a good decision maker at 14. Let me just tell you, the people in the audience, this affects you. If you are under 25 years old, they don't even let you rent a car in this state.

What does Avis, Enterprise and Hertz know that the medical establishment and the Democrats seem so blissfully ignorant about? You are not a good decision maker at 14. You turn 18, you cut off any part you want. And I hope that you don't. But if you want to, and if you want a micro penis at that age, go for it. Last question, though. It ties in because I think it's important. What is a woman? I'm not a woman, so I'm not going to answer that question. Yeah, but you know what a woman is.

You know what a woman is. A woman is made up of a vagina. Your body parts define your gender. We got someone coming. You guys are feeling lightheaded. Get water and stay out of the sun. I just like, I'm not attacking you. I just want you to think about this, okay? I am thinking about it. I came to your thing the other day. I know. You're the one who yelled out. I respect you for that. I respect you, but I would just say that like,

And you said to me, you yelled out the other night, and thank you for that, but you said, like, it's none of your business. What business is it of yours? Well, if you see somebody choking in a sandwich, what business is it of yours to give them a Heimlich? Is it our business to care about that passing out person?

Is it our business to tend to that? That's the choice you're going to make. You're an adult. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not loving. It's loving to help and want to help out all your... Are you loving when you let the mother die because she is about to die because she can't get an abortion? Well, hold on. That doesn't happen. No, it does not. It's called a septagectomy. It does not happen. How many times has it happened to you?

I don't know the statistics on that. Yeah, under 30. Okay, so you have 1.6 million abortions. But under 30, that still happens. It does not. Again, it's perfectly legal in all 50 states. You're being lied to by the abortion industry, and it's a complete red herring, okay? We're talking about something that's happening to hundreds of thousands of kids every single year. The transition? Yes, hundreds of thousands of kids are receiving hormone blockers, testosterone replacement therapy, chemical castration drugs. Okay, my brother, who is not my sister, is one of them.

Yeah, I'm sorry that you're... I wouldn't be sorry. I'm sorry your brother is butchering himself. Because you know why? The data and the stories show us that there's great regret. So let me ask you, do you think... Okay, but hold on, hold on. Let me tell you one thing. Do you think transgenderism is a brain issue or a body issue? Both. Wait, hold on. Shouldn't we treat the brain, not the body?

I agree. So then why do we give drugs that make all of a sudden your hormones disrupted? Shouldn't we find out the root cause if there's something else going on? Okay, but you can change. If you end up changing your body, most of the time it does end up changing your brain. Why do people work out? You don't work out to chop your penis off. I want to say something, too. Obviously, chopping your penis off is a drastic change. Yeah, and let me say, I don't believe, as a Christian, I don't believe that God ever changes.

Ever makes a wrong person. I don't believe that anybody's ever born in the wrong body. I don't believe that. But God bless you, and I wish you the best. And for your brother, lots of love. My sister. Please respect my sister. Your brother. Thank you very much. I respect you. I will not honor that witchcraft. Thank you very much. Okay, so my sister has been and does not know, right, has not known, but since I've known her my whole life,

always been gay, little fruity, whatever you want to call it, right? Gay is something different, though. Gay is different. Whatever you want to call it. Whatever you want to call it. They have not known how they feel, how they want to feel, who they want to be. Does your brother have other issues, depression, schizophrenia, bipolar issues?

I would say depression. Yeah, so that's the thing. You will never find a trans individual that does not have other underlying, undiagnosed, untreated mental health issues. Instead, we take the lowest, the furthest possible extrapolation. It's like if I say I have a fever, you don't know if my appendix burst, I have COVID, the flu, or a cold. But we have tried things. We've tried therapy. We've tried everything you're talking about. Have you tried watchful waiting? Have you tried Dr. Miriam Grossman? Have you tried, do you know what watchful waiting is?

I don't. I understand what you're saying, but I don't know. Watchful waiting is the most proven way to be able to break someone free of the transgenderism curse, basically.

Which is where you're getting the regret from? No, it's not. It's where you go through. You know what cognitive behavioral therapy is? Here's the problem. Psychology today is about affirming someone's gender dysphoria. We should be not about affirming the dysphoria, but bringing them back into alignment with the biology that God gave them. So then would you be against all these fat women with body positivity? 100% I'm against body positivity. I think it's much a nonsense. I agree. Okay.

Okay. All right. Okay. Well, then, thank you very much. We've got to get to the next question. Thank you. There are people. What's happening is they're taking people who are gay and they're butchering them before they have a chance to figure out what their sexuality is. Who wants to come on up? Let's have somebody else. God bless you. I wish you the best, okay?

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Thank you for that. Yeah, thank you. I'm sorry if this was already asked before, but my question is, what are your views on gay marriage? I'm against. But it doesn't matter what Charlie Kirk believes. My faith in the word of God is against homosexual marriage. Well, you know, gay marriage, if they want to be just as miserable as me, I think it's all...

No, it's a joke. I believe in the freest country in the history of the world, I believe that we want to not exclude anybody from exercising their rights as long as it doesn't harm other people. Now, the law of the land is that. I mean, there used to be, as far as gay rights, there used to be laws discriminated against people because of their sexual orientation.

That was wrong, and I don't believe that that should have happened. And because of people who fight, like the gays, my friends of mine who are the liberal gays, and I would say that it's important that they fought for those things. What's happening is there are people that are trying to join your community that don't have the best interests of your community in mind, and that those gains that were had are going to be under threat.

Because there's going to be, because I don't believe that there are good faith actors that are trying to join your community. And I would just be careful of that, and I would warn that. But yeah, absolutely. Yes, and any other questions? And thank you for coming out here. Do you believe that homosexual attraction is natural? You want me to answer that or Rob? Either. It doesn't matter. It's a behavior.

And so, for example, the position we have is that there are a lot of sins people will be tempted with and deal with. The sin of adultery, the sin of gambling, the sin of stealing, the sin of lying. But why is it that the one sin of homosexuality is allowed to be considered an identity? Have you considered that that part of the Bible was mistranslated? Well, so which part in particular? Sodom and Gomorrah? Yeah.

Was Sodom and Gomorrah mistranslated? I'm actually not sure on that part, but I do know that. Or Leviticus 19 and Leviticus 21. Yes, that bit was mistranslated. So go back to the original Hebrew. What exactly is wrong with it? The verse is, to be perfectly clear, an adam, man, shall not lie, and that is in the active form of Hebrew, with another man the way that you lie with a woman. What is mistranslated about the original Hebrew?

The word man, the second use of it. It's adam, which is the same word used in Genesis 1. No, it is used differently. They use the word that also translates to little boy, which means that it is about pedophilia and not, in fact, about homosexuality. So if that is correct, why is that prohibition repeated in Titus, Romans, and reaffirmed all throughout the New Testament? It's entirely possible that the mistranslators also mistranslated those. Okay, so the mistranslators screwed up original Hebrew and also Koine Greek? Yes.

Okay, that sounds like quite a conspiracy. So if homosexuality is permissible in the eyes of God, why did God destroy a city over it? Unknown. But I do know that penguins are also exhibiting homosexuality and other animals, so therefore it is natural. Hey, hey, hey, hey. Okay, so let me ask you a question. That's a new one. Hey, listen, you didn't think you were going to hear that today, did you? No.

So let's be respectful here. Jesus in Matthew 10 or 11 says that a man shall leave his father and cling to his wife, standing up the standard of biblical marriage, as we know, and reaffirmed throughout Paul and the New Testament authors. Can you give me a single verse where homosexual activity is allowed or at least set as a standard that is permissible in the Bible? I'm not a theology student. Fair enough. And that's okay. I have a computer science degree.

Fair enough, but it does not exist. Now, I want to be clear. I don't think less of either. I don't know if you're part of the gay. You have the flag, so I don't know. But I want to be very clear, though. I want to be clear, too. We are all made in the image of God, and we all have things that we struggle with. Here's where I have a difficulty, though.

I reject the premise that your identity needs to be about your private sexual behavior. There's only two identities I care about, saved and unsaved. That's the only identities that I care about. Can I just say something to you and to everybody out here? You know the beautiful thing about Christianity, if they had to sum it up in two words, it's love others.

I love you, and I want your happiness. I want your success. I want you to live in the freest country in the history of the world. I want that to all continue, and I wish you the best. And everybody does here. We all want you to be successful. We want to love you. We do. I have a follow-up question. Yeah. Sorry I have to stand up, but I'm a midget. I just didn't understand. We have to go in a minute. Go ahead. So there's the rhetoric of...

homosexual people are struggling with same-sex attraction, would you say that two homosexual people are capable of being in love?

Again, of course, but it depends what type of love. So there are four types of love in the Greek. There's agape, storge, phileo, and eros. So let's go through the four. And I don't mean to take too long, Rob. I know we've got to dash in. So agape is a sacrificial love. For God so agape-ed the world that he gave his one and only son, John 3.16. Storge, love between a friend. Eros, which is a romantic love. And then finally phileo, which is a brotherly love. Of course you can have one of those four loves and...

Of course you can. The question is, can you have the deepest, most sincere form of love? I wouldn't know. I don't I don't I would say that in God's standard of marriage that is reserved between separate and disparate parts, which is male and female. Hey, you have a choice.

Would I not say love is a choice? It can't. Yeah, of course love is a choice. Yes. But again, what sometimes people in relationships, both heterosexual and homosexual, get confused is they confuse love for lust. And that happens more times than not. I'm not saying that is the case in every single... You can absolutely... You can love other people. And you can absolutely love other people. Absolutely. Okay, so then do you believe that they can experience the eros love to homosexual men? It's a good question. Okay. Um...

I think that people can love each other. I do think, though, that...

We have to go by something to live our lives in a way that is righteous and the way that is right. I would say, I would just go back to this thing which is to love others and to accept others without exception is to love others. And that is what makes Christianity so exceptionally beautiful. And that's why Christianity is being persecuted all over the world now, including in the United States because of that love others thing.

But I would simply say, I love you and I love you and I want your happiness and what your success. And I do not exclude you for any of your feelings that you feel towards me or anyone else. You have that love because it is my job. It is our job as Christians. All of us is to be that light, to reflect God's light. And that light is love. And there's no exception there. So God bless you. And I love you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. Thanks so much for listening, and God bless. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.