The Christian Duty to Vote ft. Pastor Jack Hibbs and Fr. Frank Pavone
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Do you know that a majority of Christians are planning not to vote this election cycle? And there's a lot of disinformation and spiritual darkness around how Christians should view this election. Joining us now is Jack Hibbs, who is a great man. I listen to him every week I can. Founder and president of the Real Life Network, senior and founding pastor of Calvary Chapel at Chino Hills, an author of Living in the Days of Deception, and a spiritual mentor of mine. Jack, great to see you, my friend.

Charlie, I love you, brother. Thanks. Thank you. So, Jack, let's just begin with how should Christians view politics and specifically this election? Yeah, number one, right out of the Bible as a sacred trust.

It's Charlie. It's one of those things that Jesus said in a parable that he gave one man, one responsibility, another man, a different responsibility and the third man, another one. Each of them had their opportunity to advance what was given to them. Jesus called them talents, not playing the piano. It's opportunity to make a difference.

And he condemned the one who took the opportunity that they had and buried it under the ground or put it under a basket. So for the Christian today to say, I'm going to sit out the vote is to actually give the vote to, for example, Kamala Harris and her anti-Israel, anti-life campaign.

anti-God's design for marriage, anti-border, anti-constitutional belief system. She'll just surrender all of that. So the Christian somehow has deluded himself, Charlie, into thinking, if I don't vote, I'm doing good. No, in the reality, you are practicing apathy because if I can vote for Trump and block the death of one more child,

Look, neither one of these candidates can walk on water. Christians need to really grow up and understand that only Jesus did that. And he's the only one that can do that. We're not voting for a Pope or for a priest or for a Messiah, Charlie. And I like to say this, that

If Trump were to win, I get J.D. Vance. I get Vivek. I get Tulsi. I get Elon. I get a lot of people. I get RFK. I get a lot of people that's going to do really good for this nation. If I sit it out, I take my Christian, Judeo-Christian fundamental freedom of this nation, this constitutional republic, not a democracy, right?

And I bury it. And Charlie, it's unacceptable. Every Christian who names the name of Christ should go vote, frankly, for Trump because he's closest to a biblical worldview. He's not perfect. Nobody is.

But he's the one that fits the bill best for the believer. We got to get away from emotions and get back to obedience to the Bible. I love that, Jack. And I want to just take a pause here and say, God bless you for speaking out because so many pastors are silent right now. Why is that, Jack? Why is why are they overcomplicating this? Why is it that pastors where it's so clear that on one side you have.

You have abortion trucks at their national convention. You have Easter becoming the transgender day of awareness. You have anti-Israel, anti-Jew hatred, open borders, sex trafficking. Why are pastors failing at their tasks so miserably?

Charlie, the answer is too long for me to put into this entire program. I'll tell you this right now, though. Lack of fear of God, number one thing. They're not reading the Bibles for themselves. I'm talking to the pastors in America. They're not studying and reading the Bibles for themselves. So they cannot address the issues that their congregants are dealing with Monday through Friday, or even Saturday in the soccer field.

The conversations they've not equipped their people to deal with at the water cooler on Monday morning. They do sermons, or as Charles Spurgeon says, they preach sermonettes for Christianettes.

We've got to equip our people for the darkest age that this world and that this nation has ever seen. It is the Christian pastor that should put away his fear. And by the way, if his board or his denomination says you can't talk about this stuff, it's time to either get fired from that denomination or go start a church down the street. But the hour is so late.

that I believe God has been so merciful that if the Christian doesn't get involved, the result of this election is going to be the church's engagement or not. That's going to define the results of this election. Jack, I completely agree with that. And I want to just reiterate it, OK, which is that the church is the counselor to the king. And

As the church influences or does not influence, the culture and the nation will go. And right now the church is indifferent towards the suffering of our neighbor, towards the persecution of the believer.

So I want to ask you about what Christianity Today published yesterday. Christianity Today says, quote, in a binary election with choices like these, not voting may be the best way for many Christians to heed their conscience consciences and promptings of the Holy Spirit even to vote biblically. Your reaction, Jack Hibbs, to Christianity Today.

It's my understanding that no spirit-filled, indwelt, Holy Spirit living inside the true believer would say at an hour like this, don't get involved, let babies die. Don't get involved, let's keep trafficking kids across the border. And listen,

Since when have we taken our conscience and made it greater than the Bible itself? My conscience is to be rebuked by the Bible. My conscience is to be shaped by the word of God. My conscience is not king. Jesus is king. But a lot of this rhetoric, Charlie, is going on because people want to feel better about themselves. And just shame on that kind of thinking. But you know what, Char?

Jesus said in the last days when he returned, would he even find faith on the earth? Apathy seems to be what's being served up in the pulpits today. And tragically, by cowards, they have completely shirked their biblical calling to equip and disciple their people to engage in a godless culture.

Only by the grace and the mercy of God do we still even have a country where we can have this discussion because we don't deserve liberty anymore. We have turned our back as a nation, and only because of God's goodness do we continue to have even a little bit of this freedom. So, Jack, I want you to talk about an objection that we receive regularly.

from pastors every so often where pastors will say, but I can't speak out on politics because of the Johnson Amendment and the Internal Revenue Service. So, Jack, there is one Sunday before the election. This is the last chance for pastors to get it right. Right now, they're probably back in their offices. They're preparing their Sunday sermons, but many of them are afraid to speak out because of the IRS. Jack, how should we think about this?

Yeah, well, number one, if you want some help about your sermon prep on this topic, you can check out my sermon that I just did a couple of weeks ago on this. It was excellent. When a Christian doesn't vote, or you can also listen to the great sermon by Gary Hemrick. And

And so here's the thing. IRS, are you afraid of the IRS? Why are you afraid of the IRS? Does God need the IRS? Does your church need the Johnson Amendment or 501c3? Pastor, listen, you and I are to answer to the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. And if we don't exercise our freedoms, pastors have the First Amendment right also. We pay taxes. We can speak. Listen, Taylor Swift doesn't hold anything back.

But we see pastors holding back. Pastors. Ezekiel 33, God said through the watchman on the wall, if you do not blow the trumpet of warning to the evil that is coming to your people, God said, I will require their blood from your hand if you do not warn them. If you warn them and they do not listen to you, then it's on their head. But I'm commanding you to warn them. Every pastor must, this subjugator,

Sunday. Speak out on the biblical answer to apologetics, the unborn, marriage, gender, Israel, borders, the United States, the founding of this country. It's endless. Stop thinking that this is sacred and that over there is secular. Under God, it's all secular, or excuse me, under God, the secular is all sacred. Jesus made that clear

when he said, render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's. Every Jew, Charlie, every Jew in the audience, when Jesus said that, they understood. Oh my gosh, he just placed Caesar under the rule of God because he wasn't saying Caesar's in charge of this and God's in charge of that. No, Caesar is even under the charge of God. Rome is under God's authority and they all

got it back then. It's only the Western church that has completely messed this up. We've got to register to vote. We've got to vote a biblical worldview value. And frankly, the party for crying out loud, if you don't know how to vote, one party is for wholesale death. They even did it at their convention. And the other party is for the preservation of life. If you don't know who these people are, then just vote down ballot life party.

versus death party. Simple as that. It's not hard, Jack. Thank you for your moral clarity. If we had a thousand Jack Kibbs in this country, we would be in a far better place. I mean that. Your confidence, you're filled with the spirit, your clarity, your conviction. God bless you, Jack.

Hey, everybody. Charlie Kirk here.

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Days of Deception is the book D-A-Z-E. Now, Jack, we're very focused on battleground states, but I got to give you credit. Can you just riff on the energy that you have in California? We can't forget our California brethren. And so just for you, Jack, I want you to riff a little bit about how all states need to fight for liberty, regardless of the electoral chances or college probabilities.

Yeah, listen, everybody, be encouraged because not only has California been the state that people have justifiably written off forever, but what's been happening, we've been at the bottom for so long and we are so debased here that we've even sent people like Kamala Harris from California to Washington. So please stop.

But here's the deal. In California, Charlie, we have traveled up and down the state of California. We have held rallies to equip churches and pastors and congregants on how to do voter registration. In California, ballot collection is legal. We've perfected that.

And then we've also equipped pastors on how to speak to the issues. We've had such great turnout that it has been overwhelming. I'm a native born and raised Californian. I have never seen so many people excited and motivated. And please do keep this in mind, everybody. Ever since 2016, California has been trending more and more red, more and more conservative, and you don't ever hear about it. But I'm going to prove it to you right now. Who is the Speaker of the House?

His name is Mike Johnson. Where did he get his job from? Kevin McCarthy. How did Kevin McCarthy get the job? Nancy Pelosi got fired because California sent more congressmen and women to Washington, D.C. than any other state in that 2022 election cycle. Something's happening in California. People are getting charged up. And Charlie, don't be surprised if we see some awesome numbers on election night coming out of California.

I love it, Jack. In closing here, Jack, just for the audience, if they have a quivering or a trembling pastor,

These couple days, as their pastors are getting their sermon notes together, how should they approach their pastor? Let's say they've gone to a church for 20 years. Let's take one example. Here in Phoenix, there's a church called CCV. It's the biggest church in Arizona. They're completely silent on the most radical abortion measure in the country, Jack. So we have a thing called Prop 139 here in Arizona. It's as bad as it gets. It's California-style abortion for minors. I'm not kidding. Not an exaggeration.

CCV here in Phoenix is massive. You've probably heard of it. Totally silent. They have not said a word, anything. Let's say someone's gone to that church for 20 years. How should they approach that? I mean, as we get closer to the election this Sunday, that's it. This is the last chance. How should the rank and file approach that with pastors that they've tied to, prayed for, and love? Yeah. Number one, listen, Isaiah chapter 10, verse 1 says, stop those who write bad laws. Isaiah 10, 1 says,

Proverbs 29, verse 2. When the righteous are in power, the people rejoice. When the wicked are in power, the people groan. All right? And listen, bottom line is this. I hate to put it to you this way, but God designed churches to become like their pastors, and their pastors should follow Christ. You're going to become like your pastor. You're going to be tempted to be silent. Get out of there quick because...

Because listen, the number one person that is mentioned that inherits hell in Revelation chapter 21 verse 8 is the coward. I don't want to hear any excuses from pastors. The ship is sinking and they want to talk about what? Lighting and smoke screens?

No, listen, this is our last moment to preserve this republic. And I believe that God has designed it right now, Charlie, to fall on the shoulders of the church. You and I know well, the answer is not in the White House or in the State House. The answer is going to be

In God's house. And what will we do with this opportunity, Charlie? By the way, Jack, the secular world is looking at the church. I want you to comment on this minute remaining. And there's a why is the church so silent? The secular world, Jack, is asking why the church doesn't care about liberty as much as the nonbeliever unsaved community.

How dark is that? I was just on. I won't mention his program. I don't know if it matters or not, but you know who I'm talking about. I was just on his program. He's not of our faith, but he's a man of faith. He said, where are the Christians? My people won't vote. My people won't vote. We need new Christians to keep this country free. Where are you guys? And Charlie, I gave them the data from the George Barna poll yesterday.

How close Biden won in 2020. But if the Christians would have turned down, it would have crushed all those swing states. Crushed it. Yep. It would have been remarkable. So...

Listen, don't bury your light. Don't put it under a basket, Christian. Forget about what your if your pastor is not speaking out on it. That doesn't leave you off the hook. Go do the right thing. Register and go vote. You can even do it the same day. But vote, vote life, vote Israel, vote borderless. And that is to vote Trump again. As Calvin Robinson said, I didn't say this. Jesus is not on the ballot.

but Jezebel is. That's Calvin Robinson's words. Jack Hibbs. You could give an attribution where it's due. If you've got a problem with it, go after him on Twitter. Thank you, Jack. I appreciate it. I love you, brother. You're the best. God bless you.

Joining us now is Father Frank Pavone, who is a pro-life warrior. Father, great to see you again. Hey, Charlie, good to be with you. Thanks for having me. So what do you have to say about Christians that are staying at home and not voting because they say Donald Trump is insufficiently Christian for them?

Well, they're not being Christian enough to understand. You know, I was with the president yesterday with about 1,500 faith leaders and pastors. And, you know, it was amazing, Charlie, because there we were in a church chanting and crying out Jesus is Lord and applauding for Jesus Christ as the only one to whom we give our absolute loyalty, the only one we believe is the Savior. And then we were chanting and clapping just as hard.

for President Donald J. Trump, who was there among us. Now, how does a Christian look at that? You know, we're applauding just as hard for both. We understand as Christians that only Jesus is Savior. Donald Trump isn't the Savior. Donald Trump knows that. No political party is our salvation. And yet we realize that following Christ means we take his word, we're infused with his spirit, and that enables us to evaluate

what's going on in the landscape of American politics and enables us to understand which candidates, which policies, which parties best advance the kingdom of God, best protect Christian truth and values. And then we work like crazy to make sure those candidates win. Not,

Not because necessarily they are living our faith, but because they're going to protect our right to live our faith. And that's what the people were about yesterday in that gathering. And that's what I think represents Christian voters around the country and the proper view of a Christian analysis of politics and candidates. So why? What has changed? Why is it so hard for us to be able to convey that to our fellow believers today?

and people that think that Kamala Harris is a better fit for their values. What's going on here?

You know, Charlie, a lot of the pastors have failed. I've been leading this pro-life effort with Priests for Life for 31 years, and we have constantly run into one after another brick wall with pastors who are just, they talk about process. If they talk about elections at all, they talk about process, but they never get to substance. They never get to pointing out, for example, how the Democrats have a sustained and systematic authority

attack on our beliefs. Now, unless the pastors point that out, unless they can show believers the difference between candidates who are following the word of God and those who are trying to nullify it, the people are going to be lulled into this position, as you're just saying here now, where they're incapable of seeing the difference. And this is where, and this was a big theme yesterday too, but it's a big theme of my ministry, is awaken these

pastors to have the freedom and the courage to speak about this. So that's one of the reasons the church, I think in many ways, it's worse than ever before on the part of a lot of these pastors. And frankly, it's because a lot of them have Democrat loyalties that are keeping them from speaking up to their congregations as they should.

Yeah, and Father, it seems as if that the lack of moral clarity from the church is one of the reasons we're in the mess that we are in. Catholics, however, I have to say this, Catholics have been

Far better this election cycle than evangelicals. And I have to say this when it comes to moral clarity. We just had Jack Hibson, who's terrific. But locally here in Phoenix, the diocese is speaking out against Prop 139. And yet the biggest evangelical church here in Phoenix, CCV, is silent on 139. Father, can you educate our audience on these extreme ballot measures across the country and the need to speak out against them and...

what they would include. You know them quite well.

Yes, Charlie, thanks for mentioning that. There are 10 states that have ballot measures, which, Charlie, you know, over the last 50, 51 years since Roe v. Wade, although abortion has been such a contentious issue in America, certain consensus points have emerged. We shouldn't have late-term abortion. We should have parental involvement if it's a minor. Certain clinic regulations should be in place, et cetera, et cetera. So there have been consensus points. In 10 states, amendments to the state constitutions

are on the ballot right now that would lock those states into the most extreme positions on abortion, that is no limits, no involvement of parents, no need for a doctor, no regulations whatsoever by any government agency.

American people have never bought into any of those positions. And even if people wanted to try to get them to support those positions, why not introduce a bill? The reason they're not introducing a bill, but rather trying to amend the Constitution, is that the other side is afraid of the debate.

Because every time we really have a debate, really look at what abortion is, then these points, again, of consensus emerge. So the states we're talking about that our listeners really need to know and be active on, and this is summarized at a special site we've set up, stateballotmeasures.org.

are Arizona, as you mentioned, Prop 139, also Colorado, Florida, Maryland, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, and New York, and South Dakota. Ten states. Now, the amendments are worded differently in each of those ten, but they all accomplish the same thing. Radical, unlimited abortion that would have terrible consequences, including forcing taxpayers to pay for abortion. Again, something the American people have never supported.

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Let's just kind of comment on this. How are Catholics viewing this election currently, Father? Can you give us a state-by-state analysis? Because Catholics could determine the future of this election. Catholics could determine the future. Now, we just had an interesting development within the Catholic community. Archbishop Vigano, who's been a controversial figure, he used to be the Pope's representative in the United States.

and has had a falling out with the Pope because he believes that the Pope and others in the church aren't being as strong, especially on these political matters, as they could be. And he has actually come out and endorsed President Trump because many in the Catholic community, we see the statistics now that the Catholics are are are

tending towards President Trump in this particular election because they see the difference between policy and principle. This, I think, is what's coming through this year more than ever. As I go around, I'm sure you've had a similar experience, as I go around and do voter trainings and whatnot, I've never heard more of our fellow citizens say, I've come to the conclusion this is just a battle between good and evil. And so we have Catholics sensing the very same thing,

rather than policy. It's not just a question of, you know, how do we best protect the lives of the people in our communities? It's come down to a question of whether we should protect them at all. And now how do we advance freedom? But the question becomes whether we believe in freedom in the first place. So these questions of these differences on the level of principle have caused Catholics to begin to wake up to a certain extent

We have, of course, a lot of the swing states where there's a significant Catholic population. You see Pennsylvania, for example, Michigan, Wisconsin. You've got a lot of Catholics who are...

having a big influence in these states. I see a mixed picture when it comes to the priests. They have a lot of material available to them. And to the extent that they do preach on that, some of the documents that the bishops have issued have been very good. But again, some of them are somewhat...

vague and again, more focused on process than on policy. But yes, there's a certain awakening that, you know what, there's a spiritual battle here that we quite haven't felt the same before. And I think, Charlie, as we've seen across the population, a lot of this also has to do with how children are being treated. It has to do with concerns about education because Catholics are very invested in education. Our school system is vast.

across the country. And when we see drag queens and when we see indoctrination and transgender, you know, Catholic parents do wake up about that. And I think we're seeing that in some of the polling now. So, Father, more and more Catholics are waking up to that, and I'm glad to see it.

But the radical nature of the Kamala Harris agenda is against some of the core tenets of the Catholic faith or against the core tenets of what we as Christians believe in. And we must speak out and we must be bold. Have you been encouraged by a new generation of priests that are starting to be more vocal on these issues?

The newer priests tend to be more vocal. You know, a lot of them found their vocations under the teachings of St. John Paul II, whom I was privileged to know and work with. I worked at the Vatican for a while under his pontificate. And he really inspired a whole generation of new priests. We call them the John Paul II priests.

And yes, I am encouraged by that. You know, it's one thing to know. I've always pointed out, as we've done clergy education, it's one thing to know the teachings of the church. It's a totally different skill set to know how to engage in the battle, a cultural battle where these principles and teachings are under direct attack.

So we see in the clergy, again, it's very much of a mixed bag, but younger clergy are, you know, a lot of them have grown up praying outside abortion clinics. You know, their parents brought them into the battle at a very young age. And so they're then able to translate that into the pulpit. And I think just like we see, you know, I see a parallel, Charlie, between the thirst of people in the civic arena, right?

For politicians who speak clearly, you know, don't use word salads like Kamala Harris, and are able to say, like President Trump, say what they mean and you feel it and they talk the way you talk around your kitchen table, they want to see that in the church too.

They don't want to hear somebody preaching at a pulpit for 15 minutes and then you come away saying, well, I don't know really what they just said. And this vagueness, that doesn't help in the church. And they don't want to see the cowardice either. They want to see courage from the pulpit. And that's the distinguishing factor. Not that these younger priests believe any more or less in the teachings, but

But it's that spark of courage that when people see that coming across and the clarity with which they speak that they see coming across, that is really what's making the difference. Father, what other issues should we as Christians care about that are not getting the attention or the light right now? Political issues. You know, one of the things that the Trump administration did for us who are believers is enabled us to.

to realize we can speak our mind. That's something that the president reaffirmed just yesterday. He said, America is better when you religious believers are stronger. And one of the things I think that needs a lot of attention is, you know, what he said,

When he started campaigning, he was wondering why the pastors weren't actually endorsing him. He saw that they were supporting him. They liked him. So why aren't you endorsing me? And of course, he learned about the Johnson Amendment, which in the tax code says, well, you can't intervene in a political race if you're a nonprofit organization. And of course, churches are mostly organized that way. And so the churches, and it has a chilling effect.

on what the pastors can say about voting. And he has brought that up ever since. He took executive action not to let churches be discriminated against through that rubric. And then he has said again just yesterday, he said, we're going to get rid of that Johnson Amendment entirely. We need the Congress to just...

excise it out of the tax code. This is significant because I'm sure a lot of our listeners right now, who like you said, are working like crazy to get out the vote, are frustrated when their churches aren't speaking up enough about it. And it's like, here's one of the reasons, and he's actually making it a campaign issue that we will increase the freedom of that pulpit. We will increase the sound of the voices of the clergy and by extension, all of us as believers.

And then, of course, you know, it's a Christian position as far as how much freedom do we have from government oppression? You know, think of small businesses, for example, so many Christian families. And what President Trump does and has done and will continue to do to slash regulations.

I mean, that becomes an issue for believers. It's like my work is sacred. My work is part of the way I worship God. I serve my family. And why should government be encroaching on this day after day? And in fact, you can go down the list of all the different policy issues that he has distinguished himself on and then look at it from that faith perspective and say, hey, this really matters. We

And I don't hear these things. I mean, obviously in the churches where they do speak up, we're hearing about religious freedom. We're hearing about life, marriage, family. Okay. But all these other government intrusion issues, regulation issues, these are all just as connected with faith too. And I think the pastors need a little bit more education in this. And all of us need to, as we talk to our fellow citizens, say, hey, those are issues that faith has something to say about as well.

In closing here, Father, if the church stays at home and doesn't vote or hands the White House to Kamala Harris, what would that mean for the values that we cherish and for the American church? Please close it up.

It means that more and more churches would close. It means that we would face, hey, Charlie, I myself faced and my ministry faced the Obama-Biden mandate that we had to include some forms of abortion and health insurance. We fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court. President Trump freed us from that.

And we would face more and more that dilemma. Do I follow the law or do I follow my faith? No citizen should be put in that situation. But the other side is does not believe in freedom.

They're going to impose on us the duty to cooperate in their abortion, transgender, and government power agenda. And that's what's going to happen. We're going to be paralyzed into, what do I do now? Do I obey Jesus and go to jail?

Or can I live my faith in freedom? And there's going to be, furthermore, Charlie, the alienation of parents and children. As you know well, we see so many of these policies, and that's exactly the endgame of these people. They want to destroy the family. That's part of...

grabbing power for themselves. Destroy that relationship between parents and children. And parents are going to be put in impossible situations where all of a sudden the school or other government-backed authorities are taking away their children from them in more ways than one. And they're going to say, how in the world

did this happen? And when we ask how in the world did this happen, it's going to trace back to, oh, I didn't realize what my vote could have prevented in 2024. Look, I say this as a evangelical, on-fire, spirit-believing Christian who loves Catholics. The Catholics are putting us to shame as evangelicals right now. And I say this, I mean, go Catholics, go. Catholics have stepped up

They have sucked it up of all the, you know, let's just say issues they have with Trump and they're organizing and they are vocal. And God bless the faithful Catholics, John Yep, and people like you that have really been terrific. So God bless you. I hope more evangelical pastors start to care about the unborn and the country as much as you guys do. Thank you so much, Father. Thanks, Charlie. Onward to victory. Amen. I love that. What are you going to do? Find a voter right now. Text your, just go nuts.

Kamala is getting a little swag back. She's getting a little bit cocky, a little confident. What are we going to do to save the country? Find a voter. Vote yourself. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. Thanks so much for listening, and God bless. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.