"I'm Not Going to Stop Fighting. God's in Charge." — Charlie with Proverbs Media Group
52:50 Share

Hey everybody, today on the Charlie Kirk Show, my conversation at Proverbs Media, which is an amazing media company in Tucson, Arizona. We talk about Aristotle, we talk about Alex Jones, we talk about all sorts of things. You're going to love it. In an exciting interview where I get interviewed

I think you'll enjoy it. Become a member today, members.charliekirk.com, and do me a favor. Go vote right now. Whatever you're doing, drop what you're doing, and go vote. Make a plan to vote. Go vote. We want everybody in this audience to vote early. Go vote early and get your friends to do the same. Vote early. Bank your vote. Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com, and subscribe to our podcast. Open up your podcast application and type in Charlie Kirk Show. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go.

Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here.

Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of The Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investments at noblegoldinvestments.com. That is noblegoldinvestments.com. It's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegoldinvestments.com.

Hi, this is Justice Smith. Welcome to Proverbs Media Group. And today we have a very special guest, someone that I'm a big fan of, someone that we're all a big fan of here. An absolute brilliant, outspoken, accomplished young man, the illustrious Charlie Kirk. Great to be here. Thank you, Justice. Great setup and honor to be here. I love the name Proverbs Media Group. So terrific. Absolutely. It's beautiful, isn't it? Yeah, it is.

So today I'd like to begin and give our viewers a little bit of context about who you are, what you are, and why you are. You are the founder of TPUSA, something that is megalithic, magalithic. And I want you to talk about what brought you there. How did that start? Sure. Yeah. I mean, I was born and raised in Chicago, Illinois.

I had a pretty traditional upbringing. The most important decision I made in my life was in fifth grade when I made Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior. And always loved the country. I wanted to go to West Point. So in high school, everything was about kind of working towards going to West Point. Eagle Scout, football captain, basketball captain. Ended up not getting in. And so I decided to take a gap year. It's been 12 gap years now. And so –

After I decided to take that gap year, I said, I want to start an organization and try to change the country and save the country for the causes of liberty and freedom and self-government. And I called it Turning Point USA. And now 12 years later, we're one of the largest organizations in the country, praise God. And we've just had this amazing impact. We have Turning Point Action. We have TPSA Faith, Turning Point Academy. And it really has been the Lord.

Amen. I love that, and I admire what you're doing. You've brought together so many Americans, so many leaders, and you're influencing so many youthful people to actually get involved and want to learn about politics. Thank you. So I want to ask you, we're going to start it off easy, very lighthearted question. Who runs the world? Who runs the world? Well, the scriptures say that Satan actually runs the world. He is the prince of this world. But currently, there is an oligarchy that's really hard to pinpoint anywhere.

Who's actually calling the shots and that's really what's happening in this election is that the presidency is no more. It's really kind of a shadow government of administrative experts that call the shots that the president is basically just a Hollywood actor or actress that goes around poses for pictures gives produced speeches. They don't actually make any decisions.

And so the form and the structure of government as the founding fathers intended is no more. The structure of government as they intended was co-equal branches, but the president, not just the presidency, has authority and can sign executive orders and can make decisions and can veto bills. And that individual person has agency. He or she has a team, but that is an individual person.

That idea is gone now. We now have rule by committee, rule by group, and it really is a secret society that is governing the country.

Who they are is a mystery. We have some idea. But it's permanent Washington that runs this country and most of the Western world. That's people like Ann Applebaum, like Victoria Nuland. These are names that your audience might not know. Obviously, Valerie Jarrett. These are Susan Rice. These are people that live and exist to strengthen the regime.

to disempower the American citizen. They do not believe in borders. They do not believe in the welfare of the American people. They certainly don't believe in God. They believe in a very, very aggressive foreign policy position in the ever expansion of the American empire via NATO. And so right now, the people who run the Western world

are permanent bureaucrats and technocrats, and then they are financed and funded by an even higher and billionaire oligarchy of George Soros, of people of that ilk and that background. And so you can see that the godless and the secular are increasingly calling the shots in the Western world. Absolutely. Very well put. And for someone that's so well-spoken and well-read, I like to ask, what is your favorite book?

Oh, my favorite book is the Bible. Uh, but that's cheating. Um, I, I could literally talk about the Bible this entire time. If you want, uh, it's infinitely interesting and so important. That's the only book that people should read that you need to read. Um, but my favorite book is man's search for meaning. That's a non biblical book. It's by Victor Frankel. It's incredible. Um, it answers so many questions.

Because I don't know if you're familiar with the book, but it's Viktor Frankl, who was a very, very successful psychologist. He was a Jew. Then he got him and his wife got rounded up, sent to a concentration camp, lost his wife. And his whole theory beforehand was that outside of food, water and lodging and shelter, the number one need for man is meaning that.

That as long as you have meaning, you can get through anything. And he coined the phrase, a man who has a why can get through any how. And so he talks about in the book, living through a concentration camp, living through the worst circumstances a human being can literally live through, that the ones that were able to survive like tuberculosis, the ones that survived hay fever,

The people that survived in the concentration camp were not even the healthiest or the ones that had the highest weight, the ones that actually had the most reason to live. He was able to see in the concentration camps that as soon as somebody said there really is no reason to life, they'd be dead within a week. But

But it was the people that said, I'm going to get through this. I'm going to survive. I'm going to live through this concentration camp to tell this story that they were the ones that were the most likely to survive this horror. So he writes this book, Man's Search for Meaning, and he came up with this school of psychological thought called Logotherapy, which Logos, which is a big part of – that's why I like it. It connects to the Christian scriptures, which means truth or word or reason.

And that through logotherapy, you can solve a lot of people's problems, which has been proven to be a great antidote to depression and suffering and anxiety. So that is my favorite book. I have other books as well that I really enjoy, but that's at the top of my list. Wow. I'm definitely adding that to the list. Thank you. Man's Search for Meaning. He also has a great quote. I haven't read it for a while, but as you can tell, I mean, I've read it many times. It's ingrained. I try to read it once every couple of years.

And he says there's only two types of people in the world, the decent and the indecent. And I think that there's not black or white or Hispanic or Asian. There are two types of people, the decent and the indecent. I think that's a really interesting way to look at the world. Absolutely. Completely agree. Now, I normally wouldn't ask everyone this, but I think you're well equipped for this. Okay, here we go. Are you more of a platonic school of thought or more Aristotelian? I already know Aristotelian.

Same. I can just tell the audience what that means. So there's a very famous painting by Raphael called The School of Athens, which everyone's seen it, right? Exactly. Plato's pointing to the clouds and Aristotle has his hand motioned to the ground. Interesting of Euclid actually also on the ground too doing Euclidean geometry. And I think there's...

I'm trying to think what else was in the painting. Anyway, the center of the painting in Raphael's picture is Aristotle and Plato. And so remember, Socrates, who we believe existed, we're not sure though, never wrote anything, but he taught Plato. And Plato then taught Aristotle. And then Aristotle taught Alexander the Great. So it was an unbroken chain from Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Alexander the Great.

And so, but Plato was very different than Aristotle. Plato was really the first philosopher. Philosopher in Greek literally means lover of wisdom. Philosophos, sophos is wisdom. Philos, of course, phileo, probably love. So if you love wisdom, you're a philosopher. And Plato wrote extensively. I love reading his dialogues. I did whole courses on them with the Claremont Institute, obviously the Republic. But Plato was very, he was, his whole idea was that

we must be worried about the abstractions or the ideals, right? We must look to the clouds. That's why that picture points to the above. And Aristotle was a scientist and Aristotle was an observationist. He would see how the natural world would work. And he was much less interested in abstractions or theoretics. And he said, no, no, but the bird is still a bird and A is A and the natural world will be unmoved regardless of your theory.

And so Aristotle wrote – so Plato had his own academy, but Aristotle had the Lyceum, which you can visit actually in Athens. And Aristotle wrote some of the most important books ever. He had his writings on the politics, on the metaphysics, and the ethics. I encourage all of them to your audience. The politics and the ethics are the best. And in, I believe, the ethics, I believe, this first line is that all men desire to know.

And what a great, amazing statement that we exist to want to know as a human being. And then the first line of the politics, which is so amazing, is that every increase, every art, every action points towards some good. Hmm.

And then she said, well, what is good? And that is the beginning question of all philosophy is what is good? What is justice? What is evil? And of course, we as a scriptures know what is good. This is literally why Thomas Aquinas called him the greatest thinker and the greatest philosopher ever. Aristotle points you to Christ. He points you to the divine. He points you to eternal.

And so Plato also came up with – I'm talking too much. But Plato came up with this amazing idea. It was amazing. Again, a lot of Plato is good to be clear. It's a mixed bag but generally bad. And he came up with this idea of philosopher kings.

Where that in a society properly constituted, you will have a group of experts that know better than you that will call shots. So think about what we just talked about 10 minutes ago. That's how the world economic forum operates. A bunch of philosopher kings. Whereas Aristotle said, no, we must create men into great men. That the citizen must become sovereign himself. And then you will be governed by yourself. That every person can do that and can become wise.

Absolutely. So anyway, so I'm much more Aristotelian. I could talk about Aristotle all day long. He's changed my life. I wish more Americans knew about Aristotle. Absolutely. Sorry, bud. I'm impressed, man. It's not every day that I come across him. I had no idea you were going to ask about Aristotle. I hope you keep this up. It's way more interesting than the questions I usually get. Good. It's only just starting. Okay, good. So a man with such great taste, you appreciate the great masters of Renaissance. Of course, yes. Cool.

Who is your favorite musician? Oh, Haydn. Which is interesting because he was German, I believe. I love Mozart too, born in Salzburg, actually. So yeah, so I love Haydn because he's the happiest composer I can find in the sense of his actual work.

It lifts you up. So I, again, my, my classical music, I don't think he was Renaissance era though. I think it was, I could be mistaken, but according to Dennis Prager, who's kind of my classical music teacher, if you will, if you want to go deep, listen to Beethoven. If you want to feel light about life, listen to Haydn.

uh so i i just love hyden i think he's he's terrific can't go wrong with mozart so yeah well i mean for me i should probably take some of that as a suggestion i listen to too much chopin okay there you go kind of like it's amazing obviously especially the solo piano concertos are just so powerful absolutely beautiful stuff all that romantic era but you know why it's beautiful is that mozart

At the top of every single one, you know this, he wrote Glory Be to God. Before he wrote a single musical note, he wanted to glorify God through everything he did. And I mean, how many musical artists do that now? So everything he was creating was pointing up, was pointing towards the divine. Absolutely. Now, have you ever watched or listened to the play, The Magic Flute by Mozart? No.

I highly recommend it. It's deeply esoteric, and it's about something that most people wouldn't ever expect. All right. I have my homework. The magic flute. Yeah, he was actually a Freemason. Is that right? And he made his final and most popular play about Masonic initiation. Wow.

Wow. So when I went and first saw it under that context, it was really mind blowing what you see. I love that. I highly recommend it. I will. You got it. And on that note, what do you think about the Freemasons? I've seen a lot of conspiracies and a lot of good stuff. I don't have strong opinions about it, honestly. Yeah. Like, I mean, they could, it could be right. I've known some people that have been Masons that have just been like regular everyday people.

But I'm open-minded. I don't have strong opinions on it. All right. Cool. Very cool. Now, what's going on in Colorado with these Venezuelan gangs? Oh, my goodness. So we go from Aristotle to – it's actually super important, though. So think about it. So let's think about what we just talked about. Plato is very worried about theoretics and abstractions. Aristotle is worried about what can be observed and what is real.

So this is a great example in Aurora, Colorado. You have a migrant gang that we illegally allowed into this country and we allow them to stay in this country that has taken over apartment complexes. Three of them that we know of. Tren de Aragua is the name of the gang. They're the worst. They're vicious people. So if you live in the clouds, if you live like Plato would, diversity is our strength.

We're a racist country. We must open the world, right? Love is love. Then you don't realize that your ideology is actually allowing your country to be overtaken. If you live in reality, which we try to, but no, no, like our apartment complexes are being overrun by foreigners. So yeah, that's what's happening is that the Democrat party in this country,

prioritizes the foreigner over the citizen. And I hate talking that way. I wish it wasn't true, but it is, is that the non-American, the non-citizen is given preference and priority over the social contract. What it should dictate is us. Those of us that are American passport holders that live in this country, it is our country, but we're not treated like it. And, and,

you want to explain the rise of Trump, it could be well described there. Absolutely. Now, another current thing that is kind of fizzling out, but what's going on in Ukraine? I've been following it for years. It's a tragedy. And if you could maybe contextualize the Orange Revolution from 2006. Yeah. Well, I don't know that as well as the Maidan Revolution. So I

I can't speak to the Orange Revolution, but the Maidan Revolution was a CIA plot to get rid of, was it Poroshenko? I always get all these Ukrainian names wrong. I think that's right. Yeah, I get them all wrong. But yes, essentially, there was a democratically elected leader of Ukraine. I'm going to get some of these details wrong, but I'll get the general thing right. That was very popular. And his whole message was, elect me and we will go to war with Russia. Like, we don't have to be friends. We don't like each other because there's a lot of Ukrainian nationalism. But elect me and we're going to try to prevent war with Russia.

And the State Department and the Central Intelligence Agency in America said, no way can this guy be allowed in office. So we executed what was known as the Maidan Revolution. It took him out. It was a coup in broad daylight, which then led to Zelensky. And Zelensky is basically a puppet of the Central Intelligence Agency. And effectively, we invited Putin to invade Ukraine. It was wrong that Putin invaded Ukraine. We must be morally clear.

I'm not cheering for Russia. I don't want them to win. But I also think it's a terrible thing that we've allowed this to happen through a sequence of events. And it's one of the great human rights catastrophes in the modern era. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians are dead. Hundreds of thousands. And also, a lot of Russians are dead too. And we shouldn't celebrate with that. I ran into this lunatic that is like, yeah, I'm really glad a lot of Russians died. I'm like, really? This is war. These are families. These are brothers and sisters and aunts and uncles.

And he's like, oh, well, Russia is like the Nazi Germans. Like, no, they're not actually like they're not a good country. I don't like Russia, but not every country you don't like is Nazi Germany. OK, so it's like for Christians to talk that way, too.

There's a lot of Christians in Russia, a lot of them. And so I think it's really repulsive when people say that. And so what's happening is it's a bloodbath. Putin isn't advancing. He actually has been slowed down this last summer. I thought it would have been even more dramatic. He controls the eastern part of Ukraine, which wants to be part of Russia. They speak Russian. They're ethnically Russian. And hopefully we get President Trump and get a peace settlement.

and we must make a very bold declaration, which is that Ukraine will never be part of NATO. And one of the reasons why this war happened, two things, again, I could talk about this all day long. Number one, we sent Kamala Harris, who's an idiot, to the Munich Security Conference, and she wrote off a teleprompter that she did not write that Ukraine should be part of NATO, which is a direct signal to Russia that you're going to have missiles on your border. So I want you to understand, imagine if Mexico...

all of a sudden said, we're going to be part of an alliance with Russia. We wouldn't put up with that. Or Canada, number

Number two, there was a peace deal that was potentially brokered in Istanbul, Turkey, a couple days into the war. And Boris Johnson and Tony Blinken went to Istanbul and they prevented a peace deal. And they said, no, this is going to be war because the American defense contractors and the American security state wanted bloodshed. They wanted war. They want a lot of missiles. And now the American taxpayer has paid two hundred and fifty billion dollars for

For us to get nothing, we are not safer. We're closer to a nuclear war. We're closer to World War III. And for what? What do we have to show for it? It is one of the great failures of American foreign policy in our country's history. Absolutely. Completely agreed. Now, what about North Korea? Where do you think they stand in the regards of political policy, foreign policy, political

What do we need to do about North Korea? That's a good question. It's a really sad country. First of all, it's an open air concentration camp. I think Trump had the right approach. North Korea is a proxy of China. And so North Korea does whatever China wants. They will not launch a missile without China's approval. When North Korea scratches, it's the itch of China, right? They're attached together. We should try our best to try and thaw relations between South Korea and North Korea.

Thankfully, it doesn't seem as if they're that belligerent lately, but I don't trust the current American regime to keep us out of a war with North Korea. And yeah, South Korea is a great testament. It's a beautiful country. It's 100 million people. A lot of them, it's a very Christian country too. And it's just a great juxtaposition between North and South Korea. I don't think we should go to war with them. I think we should do whatever we possibly can to try to thaw relations and try to liberate North Korea from the terror they're living under.

Absolutely. As a Korean, I've always felt really invested in what's going on up there. It's like half of people just like me who might be funnier, might be smarter than me, are running around, not knowing how to read, not having access to clean water and electricity. This is where Christians should care about politics. So you look at the map, you've seen it, at night between North Korea and South Korea.

That's a political statement. So politics matter. In South Korea, politics are freer. It's a Western model. The North Korean politics are totalitarian and full tyranny. So your failure to get involved in politics is – I mean, and you happen to be born or at least descended from a lineage that's in a free society, not in one that is –

One that is terrorized. It's one of the most dramatic examples of a free society versus terror. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well said. Now, another one of the boiling pots in the Middle East. What do we do to make peace with Israel? Yeah.

What's the right approach? What's the correct channel? Well, first, we must be morally clear. Israel, Jews have a right to their homeland. That homeland is called Judea and Samaria. We must stand with Israel. Yes. And we must kill every last Hamas terrorist. That's number one. So there's three problems. The first problem is Gaza. The second problem is the West Bank, which is different than Gaza. And the third problem is Iran. And so they're all interconnected, but they're different. So once you come from the first principle that Israel has a right to exist,

and that Israel is a moral country in the Middle East that makes mistakes and their government's not perfect. I've been critical of their government at times, but the idea of Israel is irrefutable and it's pure and it's good.

So then what do you do about the Palestinian Authority? Okay, well, Gaza is on the southwestern tip and it borders Egypt. The solution for Gaza is for America to come in and demand that Egypt and Jordan absorb the people of Gaza and they govern Gaza. Egypt and Jordan do not want to do that, but we must demand that. The people of Gaza, better said, Hamas is ill-equipped to ever govern again in Gaza.

Period. That should never be allowed. So now we go to the West Bank. The West Bank is actually on the eastern part of Israel. It's confusing, but it's western Jordan. That's why it's called the West Bank. And it's traditionally called Judea and Samaria, which is where you have Nablus and you have Hebron and you have a lot of different pockets of Palestinian Authority-controlled territory.

That needs to be absorbed by Jordan. They don't want it either. Right now, finally, Iran, when Iran is consistently saying that they want the death and the eradication of Israel, it's hard to have peace. So the best solution here is what Donald Trump did is to be strong, is to be confident, is to show American force without endless war and say, if you even put a step out of line, we will take you off the face of this earth. That is the solution.

Absolutely. That's the way it needs to be done. Yes. The precedent that was said under Donald Trump's presidency was we are not going to do business with the Iranians, cut their resources. The infrastructure is weakened. They can't fund the Hezbollah and Hamas. There's a very strategic method that they used there. So we definitely need Donald Trump back. We desperately need Donald Trump back. That's right. Now, I got to ask, you are friends with Trump. Yes.

Probably spent a good amount of time with him. He's the best. Absolutely. Do you have any juicy inside stories that you haven't told the world? I just think he's a great person. He has flaws. We all do. He's treated me and my wife so well. I remember once on Easter Sunday, we were at Mar-a-Lago. This is well before we had a family, before we were married. And we saw Trump. He called us over to his table. And he's like, oh, just come fly in the plane with me. So we flew in Air Force One on Easter Sunday. Easter Sunday, 2019, I think. That's really amazing.

So you never forget stuff like that. But he's always been there for me. He's been so loyal. He's been so good. He loves this country. And unlike most politicians, he deeply cares about the future generations. He's poured into Turning Point USA and Turning Point Action. And we try to reciprocate because I think he's terrific.

He loves his grandkids. He loves the country. He believes in God. He believes he's definitely on a spiritual journey. But yeah, I don't have anything. I will say one of my funnier Trump stories was back in fall of last year. It's like October of last year. I went and visited him at Mar-a-Lago. No one was there. It was like it was a ghost town. And he's just walking around the club with an iPad listening to Phantom of the Opera on full blast.

That's epic. Walking around, just be like, oh, Charlie, I want to play this. I just fan of it. Like, wow, okay. We're talking. It's like the whole place is shaking with Phantom of the Opera. He loves good music. Wow. That's my new anthem. I'm going to listen to that after this. Phantom of the Opera. You listen to it, you'll think of Trump. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's perfect. That is very perfect.

So from the policy angle of Donald Trump, let's kind of go through and look at crime, for example. What is the best way to tackle the war on drugs? Do people need treatment? Do they not need treatment? How do we actually fix this problem? Well, there's two things. So you have users and you have dealers. So the first of which is dealers must be dealt with far more harshly. They must be put in prison for much longer periods of time.

Secondly, you must close the border. There's too much supply, which then leads to too much usage. And so we have to secure the border. And I think that Donald Trump should entertain strategic military action against the cartels. I don't say that lightly.

Again, the first day of office, President Trump can and should call the woman. I don't remember her name. The woman running Mexico and saying, if you don't secure the border of Mexico, there's a 200% tariff, 200% tariff on every good coming from Mexico to America. That thing will be secure in an afternoon. She'll mobilize the Mexican military. That thing will be secure. Number two, he'll say that you have a 20-day notice. Every single fentanyl plant, every single cocaine plant needs to be shut down. Here are the 15 locations. And if they're not shut down, I'm going to send fighter jets and we're bombing them ourselves in 20 days. Wow.

That is the way to do it. And like, that's it. Like, I mean, by the way, what is Mexico going to do? Okay. What message is a fight back? Give me a break. Okay. We're in charge. Our people are dying. That's the way that our president should act. Our people are dying. You're not, you have a 20 day heads up. Okay. So after the border secure, if you do not shut down these 15, cause we know where they are. We literally can look at them on satellite imagery. Here's where they are. Cartels bring in all the raw substances.

They have huge chemical plants there. They have chemists that come in, mix them together. They distribute them out there. If you do not shut these down, if Mexican government does not go in to the Sinaola region and go in and do it itself, we're going to just go send fighter jets and we're just going to start dropping bombs on them. Hmm.

And then, yes, the third part of that is that any time a cartel member is seen on the border and comes in interior United States, they should be fired upon by the U.S. military. We are being actively involved by a foreign force called the cartels, and it's time we start treating it like an invasion. This is not a migrant crisis. This is a military operation. Okay.

Okay, now on the user side, yes, treatment really matters, but they're also – first of all, I'm very much against the legalization of marijuana. I think legalization of marijuana leads to other forms of drug use. I think it is a gateway drug. Not everyone agrees, but that's fine. But yes, I think treatment is so incredibly important. I think we should have compassion for people that get in the cycle of drugs.

But as America becomes more secular, we must understand it's harder to heal people from their drug trauma. Jesus heals people from their drug trauma, right? From their drug issues. Jesus will set you free from all of that. And so, and then finally, I think we should be unafraid to say that if you've used drugs in the past and you are now clean, that you're able to reenter society. We as Christians believe in forgiveness. We believe in second chances.

I struggle with that same sort of forgiveness with dealers because I think dealers are the ones that are doing – and the mules that then bring the drugs into our communities. Naturally, coming from how we're going to deal with the drugs –

How can we fix our prison system? The recidivism rate is about 78% in the United States. Norway had an outcry where they had civil protests and they ended up bringing all these architects in, making the prisons kind of beautiful, creating a co-ed system. With the current culture and environment of our prison system, that would be very difficult. But I do think steps could be taken.

So, yeah, I have a radical opinion. I think that we actually need longer prison sentences for violent offenders. The average rapist serves three years in prison.

Wow. No, people don't know that. It's incredible. That's sick. Yeah, it should be 30 or 40 years and you should be castrated. It should be a 40 caliber. With 100%, right? Especially if it's like a jury of your peers. I mean, I'm a big believer in due process. But if you're like credibly accused in a court of law, not this nonsense that Trump is going through, this civil case stuff, it's all BS. Yeah, ridiculous. But with DNA evidence, like real stuff, then you should be taken care of. Recidivism is a big problem.

I don't know the solution. There are states that have worked on it. There are states that have tried it. So then it comes to the question, is prison punishment or is prison about rehabilitation? The answer is it really depends. It depends on what your crime is. I'll be honest. If you're a child rapist, there is no – I'm not absent a miraculous intervention from Christ our Lord, which anything is possible.

You should not leave prison. Period. Like, I'm sorry. Like, if you really lay your hands on a kid like that, I think you should get the death penalty. I agree. Right? Yeah. But yeah, look, I just, as far as recidivism, I know there's been a lot of studies on this, a lot of issues with reentry. Prisons are where criminals become better criminals and they become better gang members. But I'm sure there's a better way to do it. But that's not the biggest concern I have when it comes to criminal justice. The biggest promise I have is the amount of criminals that commit crimes that don't go to jail. For example...

In Chicago, only half of all murders get solved. Half. Wow. Think about that. Half of all murders go unsolved. It's unreal. So you have body bags and you have two body bags. One of those bodies, you'll never find out who actually did the murder.

So we don't have enough people in prison, especially for violent crime. That's an interesting take. I appreciate that. It's different than most people. Yeah. I'm going to meditate on that. I agree with you, actually. Yeah. I'm talking about violent crime. I'm not talking about some of the other superfluous stuff. But I'm talking about you're murdering somebody. And for example, I mean, look in California. We've had a very compassionate criminal approach for quite some time.

In California, they will not arrest you if you shoplift under $900. Crazy. I think that's wrong. And they say, oh, well, you know, our prisons are full. Like, okay, we'll figure it out. Right? If you shoplift $80, if you shoplift a toothbrush, you should be arrested.

Thou shall not steal is a commandment for a reason. That's right. And the civil law and the moral law are inextricably linked. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. That was very well put. Now, what about the education system? We have all this ideological subversion coming after even the Cold War is where you could really trace a lot of this too. We are being psyoped. They're creating cognitive dissonance. They're creating the inability for the kids to have real logic or rhetoric.

And they're all going around sowing this divide. The Overton's window is spreading with fanaticism. There's two sides, three sides, four. None of them can find a middle ground, a real centrist place where we could all get along. And I think that's something that you've accomplished really well with the organization. So you give an opportunity for a conversation so that we can actually start to heal some of the issues of this world. Thank you. But how do we start with the education? What can we do there?

Yeah. Well, first of all, I think we need more parents to homeschool their kids if they can. I think homeschooling is a great solution. The church needs to step up even more. It needs to take a leadership role in how we are educating our kids. And then finally, in public schools, we need more school choice.

Government schools are so lost right now. What they are not teaching, what they're doing to these kids is so terrible. It's so destructive. It's incredibly damaging. And so, yeah, I mean, not only do I understand rhetoric or reading or writing, they're being taught the wrong things about the world. They're being taught that America is an evil country and that there is no God and that you should just do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it.

And so it starts with parents and it starts with good Christian parents not sending their kids to government schools. Absolutely. Now, if we do go for the homeschooling route, who are the kids going to go to prom with?

All jokes. Of course, they could go to another homeschool. I mean, there's other more important things. Yes, I agree. I completely agree. So given your worldview and given how much you've read and experienced, what are your predictions for this country going forward? Boy, I'm out of the prediction business.

If Trump wins, we'll be in a good spot, I think. I mean, I think that there still is an economic catastrophe that's coming regardless if Trump wins or Kamala wins. But I think Trump will be able to navigate it and maybe even prevent it. If Kamala wins, we're going to be in a bad spot.

We're going to be a real bad spot. But I mean, I'm not going to stop fighting. God's in charge. Jesus is on his throne. But if Kamala wins, we're going to be a rough spot. Yeah. The one thing I'll give the left is specifically the Biden administration is that they've pulled higher than anyone ever in the cemetery. That's right. Yes. They are able to get the 150-year-old vote really well. Yeah, they capture that audience so well. I don't know what it is.

So switching gears a little bit. Are you familiar with the CIA Operation Project Stargate? Stargate? No. I know many of them. I know COINTELPRO. I know Paperclip. I know Mockingbird. I don't know that one. All right. So the objective of Operation Stargate was to measure the vulnerabilities and capabilities of paranormal phenomenon in conjunction with military operations.

So they were employing psychics. It was a lot about mediumship and ESP and kind of seeing what we could accomplish with remote viewing. Have you read into any of this kind of stuff? No, I haven't.

Oh, I got some books I'll give you. Okay, you got to give them to me. It's some interesting stuff. All right. There's a man named Russell Targ. He was the former director of this operation. He was a CIA agent, and he gives a little background into how he was recruited. And from the intelligence agency standpoint, a lot can be inferred by the actual metrics by which they chose to find a man that they deemed to be a psychic. And one of them was that he was claiming to see these little orbs of light. He had a near-death experience, and he claimed there's no such thing as death, that there is another birth.

And I think that's powerful stuff. Well, I'd love to learn about it. Absolutely. I'll make sure to get that over to you.

All right. So tell our audience a little bit about COINTELPRO. Boy, Operation COINTELPRO. I got to remind me which one is which. So I think that's Mind Control, if I'm not mistaken. MKUltra. Okay. Is that MKUltra or is COINTELPRO different? I believe COINTELPRO. Now, I might be mistaken, but I think it has something to do with trafficking. Now, MKUltra is Mind Control. No, you're totally right. Yes. I don't quite remember COINTELPRO. I just remember the name of it.

I could talk about MK ultra that when I actually know better. Oh yeah. Let's do MK ultra. MK ultra was when, so for example, the Unabomber who just recently died. Oh my gosh. I know that's not Timothy McVeigh. Oh my goodness. I'll think of it in a sec. Put it on the screen. Yeah. Oh my goodness. How do I not remember the Unabomber's name? Anyway, the Unabomber who was a professor of mathematics was a victim of CIA mind control. Um,

This is all well documented. So he was used as experimentation for CIA mind control MKUltra and then ends up becoming this kind of very violent, obviously, and disturbed person in the hills of Montana. I think it was Montana. Yeah. And starts sending around explosive devices. And he had this manifesto. Yeah.

And the manifesto that he wrote was all about like the warnings of technology. But his kind of psychosis was induced by MKUltra, which was so the central intelligence. We know this because of the Church and Pike Committee that was constituted in the 1960s and 70s by Congress to look into all of the activity by the Central Intelligence Agency. We learned about the heart attack gun where the CIA can make it look like you had a heart attack by just shooting, you know, a dart at you, taking a dart out. And then it mimics a heart attack.

Makes you wonder how many people in public life actually have had a heart attack gun against them. Stanley Kubrick. Yeah, or Andrew Breitbart, right? You never know. Yeah, Stanley Kubrick, interesting. I never thought about that. And so...

The essence of the MKUltra was that the CIO was actively involved in trying to proliferate mass mind control and also being able to find an individual subject and be able to change their behavior and maybe turn them into someone who was violent, who otherwise was not, to turn somebody into someone who was –

Very manipulative, otherwise would not. So you could take a subject and they do this through very similar to Clockwork Orange. Very similar, right? If everyone's seen that very disturbing movie where they like keep your eyelids open and they show you films, that is like an example of MKUltra where they take you and you completely change.

And your damage. And they did this a lot with psychedelics, too. It would give patients psychedelics to see if they could turn somebody into, like, a school shooter or something. Charles Manson. Charlie Manson is another. Yeah, he was a MKUltra. Well, I don't know if we know he was for sure. There's a lot of speculation. No, no, that's right. No, actually, in the book CIA in the 60s. Mm-hmm.

They believe Charlie Manson was. Boy, I can't believe I can't remember the Unabomber's name. Anyway. It's all right. So the real question is, I know one thing about the CIA. Yeah. Is they're not going to leave until they get results.

The MKUltra program, when it was declassified, they announced it. Ted Kaczynski. I'm sorry. Ted Kaczynski. Goodness gracious. Yes. They don't pay me enough for this stuff. Ted Kaczynski. I'm sorry. Now I finally got it. Don't worry about it. All right. Do you think the MKUltra project ever actually ended or just went on? No, we have no evidence that it ended.

And I mean, also we have Operation Mockingbird 2, which was another CIA program, which was that they were going to take over all the news networks and have symmetry in their broadcast communications. No, the Central Intelligence Agency is actively involved in mind manipulation of people here domestically.

And that is completely against the CIA charter. You must understand we have Congress and they're just kind of like a peanut gallery. And then we have a super government that exists above Congress of the Department of Defense, which is the Pentagon, the Central Intelligence Agency, which is own thing out Langley, the Federal Bureau of Investigation. They run the country. The intel agencies run the country. I agree. People don't run the country. The executive branches run the country. This is why they hate Trump because Trump was the first candidate since JFK.

To actually want to declare war on the intel agencies and bring the power back to the sovereign. And both him and Kennedy got shot. What's the possibility that the shooter, the recent attempt on Trump's life was a Manchurian candidate? We have some evidence that there's suspicion. I want to be really precise. But yeah, I mean, looking at what the CIA has done before, it makes you wonder.

Because if you look at what MKUltra was and how they wound people up and how they disturbed people, again, this kid was most likely just a run-of-the-mill,

deranged, disturbed individual. But there's a lot of suspicious stuff that happened on July 13th in Butler, Pennsylvania. A lot of suspicious stuff. Absolutely. What do you think the relationship, if one, is between SSRIs and mass shootings? I don't know if there is one. So everyone understands what SSRI is. It's a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor.

So an SSRI is supposed to regulate the brain's ability to make serotonin, which is a byproduct of tryptophan. You know that if you have a lot of turkey. And serotonin effectively is the happiness molecule, right? So your body has adrenaline. We know what that is. Your body has protein.

cortisol for stress your body then also produces it produces serotonin for happiness and many other hormones dopamine for reward right everyone knows about dopamine which kind of drink you know dopamine hit which keeps you going football games video games i have not seen a connection so let me be very clear there's a logical fallacy waiting to happen between this however it could be true so let me build it up almost every school shooter is on ssris so it's tempting to say therefore ssris

cause school shootings. But we must be logically clear back to our Aristotelian roots, right? But what if people who are more likely to do school shootings are prescribed SSRIs because they're more likely to do school shootings? That makes sense? So we don't know. We don't know if these chemicals create violent tendencies or people that have violent tendencies are then put on SSRIs.

We don't know that, but it is fascinating to look at. I don't like saying their names. The Parkland shooter, the Sandy Hook shooter, the movie theater shooter in Aurora, Colorado. Almost every single one of them was on some form of antidepressant. And then it also begs the question, do these drugs actually work?

And no, they don't. There's actually very little evidence that with long-term longitudinal studies that SSRIs or benzodiazepines or Xanax or Prozac or Valium

are mommy's little helper are actually making you happier long-term. It might dull you, it might mute you, but it might, the brain is such a complex organ. We're still learning how it works, how the amygdala works and how it interfaces with the cerebellum and how all these different parts of the brain are interconnected. And if we think we could just nuke it with a bunch of chemicals, that's going to solve the problem.

We have more people ever in our history on antidepressants, and yet we're more depressed than ever. So something isn't working. And in fact, more and more studies show that cold water exposure, eating better and getting rid of carbohydrates and eating healthy fats and proteins, working out, going for walks, sun exposure is actually as good, if not better, than a steady regimen of SSRIs, benzos, etc.

Well, yeah, that's absolutely accurate. I think it's so important that people take holistic approaches when they can. Absolutely. To try to help their issues. Yeah, look, I'm not bashing anyone who's on antidepressants. I know someone where it's really helped them. But you know what they'll tell you? It only helped me when I also did walking every day, working out. I did therapy. If you take the pill and you continue your bad habits, you're almost assured that

assuredly not going to be able to break out of whatever funk you're in. Absolutely. Yeah, it's so true. And I think that there are many cases where these kinds of things can help. And even in the case of marijuana, if that's an alternative to someone that might be taking chemotherapy, things in those situations, I think it's better. But I'm with you fully across the board on this. Great. Yeah, absolutely. So

I have a feeling that we're about to get one of our most interesting parts. I've wanted to ask you this for a long time. Wait, wait, I'm going to be clear. So SSRIs and aliens and Aristotle, not interesting, but now we're getting into the interesting stuff. Oh, yeah. We're just warming up. I love it. I love it. Have you ever had a supernatural experience? Please explain. Well, yeah. I mean, first of all,

I mean, seeing my daughter be born was supernatural. I mean, it wasn't like I was, you know, in some other place. But yeah, absolutely. That was supernatural. Getting married was supernatural. Best thing ever. And absolutely. I've had other moments where the Holy Spirit has spoke to me, for sure. I can see it. I can see it. You are anointed. I don't know about that. I'm just being used. Absolutely. Well, he certainly is using you. Oh, thank you. For good things. Thank you. Praise God. Absolutely. Praise God.

I want to take it to kind of a lighthearted place. Okay. This will be fun. You're a good interviewer. I love these questions. Thank you. So much better than the usual stuff. Oh, I appreciate that. I really do. This game, if you're up to it, is called Describe Them in One Word. I love this game. All right. All right. Donald Trump. Courageous. I agree. Kamala Harris. Treacherous. Elon Musk.

eccentric. Got a retweet from him today. Follows me now on Twitter. Can you believe that? Wow. I love Elon. I've followed him my whole life. I've read everything about him. Not everything, but I've read all the books, especially the Walter Isaacson book. I read it carefully. I think he's so special. I hope to meet him one day. I'm sure you will. Vladimir Putin? Complicated. I agree. Kim Jong-un? Boy, petulant.

I agree. He seems very childish to me. So that's why I use the word petulant. It's a good word. Kanye West. Confused. Joe Biden. Confused. Hunter Biden. Oh my goodness. Very damaged. He's a damaged person. Yeah. It's awful. It's awful. Anthony Fauci. Evil. Yeah. Oh yeah. He's an evil. I agree. Ben Shapiro. Smart. Yes. Candace Owens. Awesome. Charlie Kirk.

I would use a different one, but I like it. I appreciate your humility. You're awesome. I would say that you're a fighter, a legend. Thank you. Absolutely. Jordan Peterson. Oh, wow. I would say he is interesting. Mm.

Again, you only give me one word, so I have to package so much into one word. Of course. I love Jordan Peterson. He's so great. The new suits he has these days. I don't know if I like the split one. The two-color one? Never seen anything like it. The blue and the red, it's a little too much for me. Sure, sure. Bill Gates. Oh, boy. Cunning. George Soros. We said evil before, but I have to repeat it for George Soros. Yeah, absolutely. Klaus Schwab.

I'd say technocrat. He wants to micromanage your life. He's so much in that German model of the council of experts. Very Prussian. Absolutely. Now going back into history a little bit, Friedrich Nietzsche. Friedrich Nietzsche. Wow. I only get one word? No, this one you can talk about it in depth. Well, Nietzsche is so complicated. He, of course, wrote Beyond Good and Evil and thus say Zalathustra. He lost his mind towards the end of his life.

But he was the first person to lament the death of God in the West. Remember, he said God is dead. And he meant that as if the belief in God is dying in the West and be careful what you're going to invite next. He basically predicted the Holocaust and the communist revolution. I would also say he was complicated. Nietzsche did a lot of good and there's a lot of really dark nihilism in his writings. A lot. Absolutely. What about Voltaire?

You know, I don't like him very much. I mean, I know one quote from Voltaire. He also was kind of a communist, if I'm not mistaken, kind of like a Marxist revolutionary. The quote that everyone quotes is, you know, I might not agree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it's my death. I'd say he's overrated. Okay, okay. I agree. I hear you there. How about Pythagoras?

very useful theorem. So I'd say useful. Yes, that's right. That's right. And my favorite of them all, going back into the modern day, Elaine Beck.

Oh, Elaine Beck. Oh, my goodness. She's courageous and she is a disciple of God and she is bold and she loves the Lord. And she's the type of person that everyone should look up to and say that she's fighting for her country and for the kingdom. She is. She's a Proverbs 31 woman. Absolutely. I agree. Now, imagine this.

You just now were given the ultimate power of the world. You are the grand pontificate, dictator, king, prince, all of it. You run everything. I hope not. It's so scary. Yeah. Well, just for this thought experiment, what would be the first policy you put in place with unchecked power? Of the world or America? Let's do America. Well, if America, my goodness, I would first and foremost seal the border, deport the foreigners. So I don't have to go through Congress. I can do whatever I want. Yep.

I would – by decree, I would immediately bring in the US military and the National Guard into the major US cities and stop the crime wave. I would go into the education system and completely blow up the current form and fashion and

make it bibliocentric again and with God at the center. I would then stop the war between Russia and Ukraine. We would audit the Federal Reserve and we would balance the budget immediately. We'd balance the federal budget and stop borrowing money. We would dramatically cut taxes and the size of the federal government would be reduced significantly from $6 trillion a year to like $1.5 trillion a year. And we would cut taxes across the board. The economy would boom overnight.

Yeah, those are just some of my ideas. Yeah, maybe we should give you that authority. So what I would do as dictator is I would make government smaller. Thank you. I would be the first dictator in human history that would give power back to the people. Wow. The power to relinquish power. That's what I would do. But if I had to use power to go after the cartels, I would.

And then I would send China a big invoice for COVID and say, you owe us $10 trillion. Yeah, that they do. That they do. The plandemic was an ugly thing. No, I would. I would put tariffs on China too. Yeah. Day one. I agree. I agree. And I think that would have a trickling effect all throughout Asia. It would also weaken North Korea. Yes. It's a great move. I would defund Planned Parenthood, defund NPR. Oh, yeah. Overnight. I'm just kidding.

I would do what I can to try to fight for life, try to get rid of these ridiculous abortion clinics, all that good stuff. Absolutely. Now, I watch a lot of your videos online. I've been watching you for years. Thank you. All of my friends have been watching it. Thank you. Absolutely. What's up, guys? But I just wanted to ask you, what's the most insane experience you've had with some of these Libby's out here? Because I see people come attack you, man. We get a lot of crazy stuff. Yeah.

The craziest, still, this is undefeated, was when Candace Owens and I got run out of a restaurant in Philadelphia. What happened? Yeah, it was well-documented at the time. It was back in 2018, six years ago. Wow. We were having breakfast.

in Philadelphia. She lived in Philadelphia at the time, and it was like her favorite breakfast place. We went in there, 7 a.m. right as it opened. And as it opened, I was like, hey, Candace, those guys over there, I think they're part of Antifa. The night before was an all-night anti-cop protest. And it was like, okay. So we're having our meal, and we look out the window. Within like 20 minutes, there were like 200 people out there protesting us. They come into the restaurant. They start screaming at us. They drive us out of the restaurant. All these cops had to be mobilized.

And still is undefeated as one of the craziest campus experience. Not campus, just experiences in general. Wow. Yeah. That's unreal. That's unreal. I pray that God has a shield over you because I really believe in what you're doing. And I know that God would be very proud. Thank you. Absolutely. Now I'm going to warn you. This is the most controversial question. Oh, wow. Okay. Of the entire thing. All right. And there is a right answer. All right. Kendrick Lamar Drake.

Oh, I think they're both awful. I would say probably Kendrick Lamar, not because of his music. His music's terrible, but he hates pedophiles. So I'd have to go with Kendrick Lamar. To his credit, again, his music is noise. It's objectively terrible music.

And it's like really explicit. But to his credit, he has two kids. He stayed with the same woman for a while. He's not married to her. Okay. But like grading on the curve of American rappers, Kendrick Lamar is much better. And he went hard against pedophiles. So he went up in my book.

Awesome. That brings me such joy. So I knew a little bit more about pop culture than people would think. So we go from Aristotle to Kendrick Lamar. That's right. That's right. A lot of juxtaposition. Oh, yeah. We like to keep it fresh and fun. Anyone who hates pedophiles.

I think he's fine. Yeah, good in my book. Yes. Absolutely. Well, Charlie, thank you so much for your time. Thank you. God bless you. God bless you. Incredible experience. I love your name. Justice, justice, justice we shall pursue. Oh, yes. It's one of my favorite scriptures. Thank you. You shall pursue. God bless you. God bless you. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening. Everybody email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. Thanks so much for listening and God bless. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.

John Lithgow and Isabella Rossellini.

We sisters have eyes and ears. Top critics are raving. Conclave is hands down the best picture of the year. I had to find the truth. Conclave. Rated PG. Parental guidance suggested. Now playing only in theaters.