"A Complete Landmine For Anti-White, Anti-Male Hatred" — A Full Analysis of the Daniel Penny Case
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Hey everybody, it's the Charlie Kirk Show. Heather McDonald joins us to talk about the Daniel Penny case and then also Ari Fleischer talking about the almost stolen election in Pennsylvania. Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. Become a member today at members.charliekirk.com. That is members.charliekirk.com. Get involved with Turning Point USA at tpusa.com. That is tpusa.com. AmFest as well. Check out amfest.com, A-M-F-E-S-T.com. That is AmFest.

Buckle up, everybody. Here we go.

I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here.

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That's right. Almost saw a stolen election in Pennsylvania. And we have to really be honest about what was happening there and never let it happen again. It's an extraordinary piece in the Wall Street Journal. To have it published in the Wall Street Journal is almost even more extraordinary because it seems that this topic has been very verboten on traditional news sources. But it's the courage of the author and the clarity because he's right.

It's Ari Fleischer, who has been in this program many times. Ari, welcome to the program. Your piece is Pennsylvania almost saw a stolen election. That's a big statement. In fact, that statement could be called, make you label the conspiracy theorist, have your home raided, kicked off social media and debanked. Ari, what's going on in Pennsylvania that warranted such a description?

Well, I had an inside view to this one, Charlie. I worked for Dave McCormick's campaign. And what I saw in the recount was the National Democrats flooded into Pennsylvania, led by a big election attorney who had flipped other races, and they were trying to save Bob Casey from losing.

And the way they do it is what I got to see. What their technique is, and this is a warning to every other state out there, is if they can find sympathetic county commissioners, sympathetic judges, they will convert votes that by definition, by state law, are illegal votes.

into legal votes. And they only try to do it in overwhelmingly Democratic counties. And so what they tried to do in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, for example, was count votes that were undated or not signed, both of which are barred by state law from being counted as a legitimate vote. They're illegal votes. They found a county commissioner to, in effect, nullify state law and said, we're going to count these votes.

And it took the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, where McCormick sued, to stop that from happening. The lesson, Charlie, is every candidate has to have an operation in every county that knows the law, that smart lawyers are on their toes and are instantly prepared to pounce because the Democrats will try to convert illegal to legal. And in overwhelmingly Democratic counties, they have a shot at doing it. Yeah, I mean, so who's going to be holding them accountable, right? I mean, just we're getting the tape here. Do we have it loaded?

Let's play cut 51. This is one of the most extraordinary and just provocative pieces of tape. Play cut 51. We reject all three categories of these ballots. Your motion is to reject or dismiss the challenges in this category in front of you? Correct. Yep.

I'm not going to second that, mostly because I think we all know that precedent by a court doesn't matter anymore in this country, and people violate laws anytime they want. So for me, if I violate this law, it's because I want a court to pay attention to it. Ari, so she's saying that people break laws all the time. I will therefore openly break a law. I mean, she should go to federal prison. Am I ahead of myself here? No.

Well, she should probably go to state prison. Yeah, this is the modern day nullification crisis. This is a matter where a state commissioner, and by the way, she prevailed. It was a two to one vote to count votes that by state law are illegal votes. They voted to count them in Bucks County, two to one. She nullified the state law. And what did the Democratic governor of the state of Pennsylvania do? He sat there silently as his laws were being nullified in this county. He waited till the state Supreme Court ruled to show any courage and to say anything.

And that's just the one county in which a commissioner was brazen enough to say it. In many other counties throughout Pennsylvania, it was going on without them bragging about it. The Democrats tried, unsuccessfully I have to say, but they tried to overturn state law by going to the courts to get favorable rulings. And that's the vulnerability of our system. All it takes is a friendly judge or a friendly commissioner to agree that

that state law no longer matters. The rules that everybody agreed to play by no longer matters. And therefore we're going to count votes in democratic counties. And it wasn't just Bucks County. It was several counties. Now, if McCormick's lead Charlie had been a thousand votes or 2000 votes, I guarantee you that recount would still be going on today. We had a big enough cushion to fight it, resist it and not let them find enough friendly judges or friendly commissioners to flip the balance.

But that's the real lesson. In a close race, all it takes is a few friendly judges or commissioners. And that's the formula. That's what Republicans in every state have to be on the lookout for. They have to blow the whistle. What we did in McCormick's race was every time we found any Democratic attempt to overturn the law through a court, we blew the whistle. We shined a light. We let everybody know that this is illegal. They're trying to call it legal. They're looking for a friendly judge to make it so.

Now, they didn't find the friendly judges, not enough of them in Pennsylvania to prevail, and our margin was too big. But that's what they did to Norm Coleman when they flipped the race when Senator Norm Coleman won in Minnesota and rewarded that race instead to Al Franken.

The Democrat, that's how they go around the country in close races and turn illegal votes into legal votes. I mean, so just I want to recap, and then I have a very specific question on how we solve it. Just the margin was so disturbingly low.

vanishing, Ari, because it seemed as if you guys were floating around like a 39 to 40,000 vote cushion, if I remember correctly. And then next thing you know, it goes down to like 18,000 votes, which I think was right near the final margin. How did that happen? Where did these votes come from? Charlie, a lot of that was legitimate. That's called provisional ballots. And the provisional ballots in Pennsylvania historically do break in favor of the Democrats.

Provisional ballots are legal ballots. Now, there are provisional ballots that should not be counted, and many of them were not counted because we made sure they weren't counted. What the Democrats were trying to do was have provisional ballots called, all of them, whether they don't have a secrecy envelope, whether they weren't signed, they weren't dated, all which state law says they must be, they wanted to count those too.

And so it was legitimate for our lead to shrink because the provisional ballots just do tend to favor Democrats. But the Democrats wanted to count every single provisional ballot and we stopped them. There were illegal provisionals, provisionals that should not count. And if those had counted,

that's where they would have tried to flip the election. So it's a little complicated, but that's where it came down to. So let's kind of move forward on how to solve it. So you guys had a great campaign on the Dave McCormick side, well-funded, sophisticated, but not everyone running for office has that kind of infrastructure, Ari, does not have that kind of team, that kind of tenacity. And Dave deserves a lot of credit for his willingness to fight and scrap and hustle. So let's just...

What can be done broadly or in other campaigns to prevent this kind of nonsense? Because Pennsylvania is not the worst offender in the country. I mean, California, I think, is still counting ballots. I mean that. It's unbelievable. How can this be applied to other races? Citizens have the power, actually. What Donald Trump did by blowing the whistle in 2020, whether people agree or don't agree it was stolen or not stolen, he put the issue front and center for people to be alarmed and on their toes.

And so what happens is citizens now, if they see something going on at a polling place, they take a video of it. They let everybody know it goes viral. Our lawyers see it. It lights up the sky. And therefore, we can dig in and say, is this a legitimate complaint that somebody posted on social media? Or is it they didn't understand the law and it actually is okay? We pursued all of that thanks to citizens posting about it.

So that's where the first level of vigilance comes from. The second level of vigilance, again, I credit Donald Trump for this,

is because of him he put Michael Watley at the Republican National Committee as the chairman and the National Republican Senatorial Committee took it seriously too and gave us a lot of resources during the recount to fight this tooth and nail. They brought in a ton of lawyers, smart lawyers who knew the law, who were ready to fight to help us to prevail and knock down the Democrat lawyers. So the Republican infrastructure rose to the occasion and fought like tooth and nail

And also citizens. I mean, I really emphasize that when I say the power of a citizen who sees something wrong on election day, takes a video, if a bus pulls up and they see a bunch of people get off the bus who are escorted to the front of the line, you know, we want to know about that. It could be legitimate, but we're going to make darn sure it's legitimate. So a lot happened where people learned the lessons of 2020 that helped put us in a stronger position in 2024 to fight it.

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Ari Fleischer has been on the side of the podium that Caroline Leavitt would be on. I have two questions here, Ari. We have five minutes to get through them. Number one, what is your advice to Caroline Leavitt? She's capable, she's talented, but she's young. So what do you wish you would have known going into...

that job? She's in a totally different era than I was when I was in that job. When I was in that job, America still relied on the mainstream media for better or worse to tell them what was happening. That era is over, Charlie, as you know. I wrote an op-ed in The Hill a couple of weeks ago where I advocated that the 49 seats in the briefing room no longer go to The New York Times, CBS, ABC, NBC, The Washington Post, the mainstream media.

The front rows should move to the back rows or they shouldn't get a seat at all. And the front rows should now be alternative sources. It should be conservative media. It should be podcasts. It should be talk radio. It should be respectable social media influencers. That's how Americans get their news these days. People no longer get their news from the mainstream media. And that room is a throwback to the 1980s. And so I urge them to modernize the room.

Put it in tune with how people consume news today. What does that look like? That looks like you allow the front rows to be filled with conservative media, the Daily Examiner, the Daily Wire, somebody from your show, Charlie, somebody from Joe Rogan's show, a producer. It looks like the way people get their news. And plus, the media are activists. They take sides. Nobody should pretend anymore that CBS, NBC, The New York Times are neutral. They're not. They're anti-Trump.

Trump should get people in the front rows who ask him legitimate, good, earnest, hard questions. But not everything is a game of destruction where they just want to take the president down.

The American people would be better served with a more modernized media room, and so will Donald Trump. Well, you kind of took it out of my mouth, the question out of my mouth, which was like, is it crazy? Does it have to still be this ossified thing in that same room? Can they find a bigger room where it's more modern and it's more –

I don't know, like podcasty. Do you know what I mean, Ari? Where it's a little less like this. Let's be honest. When a Republican is in office, it's like a Moscow show trial, right? When it's a Democrat, it's just like a, I don't know. It's like a rotary meeting or something. I don't know. It's just boring. You know, is there a way to aesthetically modernize it? Or do you recommend that? Or because new media is,

It's multidimensional. And the media is laughing like, oh, Joe Rogan is in the front row. He gets more views than all of you guys. All of you. Ari, your thoughts? I think you can stay with the 49 seats in that briefing room, just put better, more neutral or more fair reporters in those seats. Fair to Donald Trump. I do think you could go find another place in the White House that would allow what you're talking about, an audio, a video component in.

Physically, there's just not that much space, certainly not in the West Wing. You'd have to gut the briefing room to do it there, and that's not going to be in the cards.

You could find another room to do what you're talking about, but the briefing room is more important. Who sits in those 49 seats? Who asks the questions? How come none of the reporters previously thought it was even remotely possible that the coronavirus originated in a Chinese lab? Wouldn't we all as a country be better off if there were people sitting in those seats who thought that's a legitimate line of inquiry? And they ask those type of questions.

The whole media before it that was out to get Trump, when it came to collusion, when it came to the Steele dossier, they've proved incapable of being fair or neutral, and they're losing viewers and readers. That's not where the action is. The action is with the new media. It's with people like you, Charlie, and it's people like we've just been talking about.

And that's who should occupy certainly the front rows of those 49 seats. And I could make the case for all 49 seats. Ari, I love it. You are a great man. Really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thanks, Josh. Always great to be on with you. Thank you. I want to think about that. It really is a brave new era. Now, for the record, I'm not going to push to be in the front row of the White House press briefing room asking a question. But if they ask me, I will certainly accept. Just for the record, just so everyone is clear about

The record has been set. That is not something I'm asking for. But if I'm invited, I will certainly participate. And the honest truth, and I mean this, not every day, but as like a guest or whatever.

The honest truth, though, is that me, Blake, Andrew, whatever, whoever ends up, if that were to happen, would ask far better, more substantive questions for the American people than CNN or MSNBC. Even if there are my friends, even if it's Caroline Levitt or whatever, it would actually be an interesting question that the people want answered. It will not be about, has the espresso machine been fixed in the mess?

Do you guys have almond milk now? Are you guys on the coconut milk train? It's just ridiculous.

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Joining us now is Heather MacDonald, author of the book When Race Trumps Merit. Heather, welcome back to the program. We have the bombshell news yesterday of Daniel Penny being acquitted, remarkably so. I just want to ask your reaction, Heather. Were you shocked by this? Were you surprised by this? Well, I was surprised because if only because the hung jury, the deadlock jury,

on the reckless homicide charge meant that there was at least one juror who wanted to convict as well as one juror at least who wanted to

acquit. And so if they throw out the most serious charge, you'd think that that one juror who was willing to convict on reckless homicide with a 12-year prison sentence would be even more willing to convict on the lesser charge of criminally negligent homicide. And yet you got a unanimous acquittal verdict. So just

From the mechanics, I was surprised as far as the larger picture of which way did I think this would go. As you know, Charlie, I'm a pessimist by nature, and so I believe too much that people are way too susceptible to the race hustle.

And, you know, I live in an extremely left wing city, so I was not at all confident that justice would be done here. It's it's not really done. It's nothing can can give Penny back the year that he spent in hell going through this. And I'm sure he's going to be a pariah in certain circles through for the rest of his life.

But I was absolutely delighted. You know, I'm completely against rioting. I'm completely against the destruction of property. But had there been a guilty verdict here,

I think there would have been massive, some sort of civil disobedience that would have been called for. Yeah. So, so much to go here. This is a hypothetical, but I think it's actually a useful one, Heather. If this would have been a trial that occurred in early 2021 or late 2020, what do you think the verdict would have been? Otherwise, same fact pattern, same everything. Do you think we would have gotten the same conclusion? Good point. You know, the, the, the,

Mass psychosis after the George Floyd Rice riots was so great. You had every single mainstream institution without any justification beating its chest saying, woe is me. I'm so racist. I will atone for my own racial sins by massive anti-white male preferences. I'm going to hire people based not on their competence.

So yes, there would have been, this would have been even more of a witch hunt, but it does seem given the last election that there has been finally, there's some people that are pushing back against the race hustle because that's what this was. This was, they went after Penny because he was a straight white male. Even worse than that, he was a former Marine. He's the embodiment of everything that women's studies majors absolutely loathe. And if he'd been black,

there's very little chance that this would have gone as far as it had. So this is a tougher question, but is this the beginning of the end or the end of the BLM race hustle? I'm going to play some of the tape here in a second, but, um,

They seem to have this playbook that has gone on, which is we are going to threaten riots and burning your homes and your businesses. Give us what we want, including ridiculously over the top convictions, especially of, you know, white, straight Christian men. Is that is this racket coming to an end?

The hypocrisy is so extreme at this point that it damn well better. I know no person should ever be vulnerable to the race hustle again. All these people who are crying these crocodile tears, this lacrimose, performative sorrow, beating of the chest over Jordan Neely. Every single one is the most.

extraordinary hypocrite. They have never protested the dozens of blacks who are killed every day by other blacks in these barbaric drive-by shootings. They've not protested the children whose lives have been taken. Ten days after the Daniel Penny Jordan Neely incident on the New York subway, there was a 16-year-old girl in the Bronx who was shot in the head by three assailants while she was sitting in an SUV in a park.

She was on life support at the funeral for Jordan Neely when Sharpton was doing his race hustle bit about white vigilantes killing black males and how vulnerable we are. Nobody mentioned Claudia Quanti, the 16-year-old girl who died three days after the funeral. They've never spoken out against black victims. They don't give a damn. Black Lives Matter don't make a damn bit of difference to these people whatsoever.

All they care about is trying to take white people down. If they cared about black lives, and we've also supposed to hear about, well, why didn't you, why didn't Daniel Penny go help this poor Jordan Neely who was just crying out for help as he's, you know, screaming at people allegedly that he's going to kill them.

Have they ever done so? Never. I can guarantee you, Charlie, that none of these people who are demeaning Daniel Penny for being a hero, for putting his own life in danger because mentally ill chemical abusers, as Jordan Neely was, psychotic schizophrenics who were drug abusing are very violent. They're killing people across New York City.

None of them have gone up to somebody in that situation and put their own lives at risk, either to help others or to help the mentally ill chemical abuser. So this is all it's completely fake. It's completely fake.

And we should just walk away and say, get your own house in order. We are not responsible at this point for those black-on-black drive-by shootings that are mowing down dozens of innocent black toddlers. That was a wonderful summary.

And to put kind of an emphasis on that, as George Orwell would say about Marxism, it was much more about hating rich people than helping poor people. Race Marxism is much more about hating white people than helping black people. Let's play cut 21, please. We need some black vigilantes. That's right. People want to jump up and choke us and kill us for being loud. How about we do the same?

When they attempt to oppress us. Right. I'm tired. Tired. It's amazing. Listen, you want vigilantes? You know who's oppressing whom? Blacks are oppressing whites. Sorry, it's a fact. Blacks commit about 75% of all crimes.

interracial violence between blacks and whites and whites and blacks, a black person is 35 times more likely to commit an act of violence against a white than a white is against a black. And yet whites are so anti-racist at this point. They're so much the opposite of white supremacists that they turn the other cheek. They turn their eyes away. They don't complain about this.

The idea that whites are a threat to blacks is completely ludicrous. And yet it is the it is the conceit that we've been hearing from our Democratic presidents for the last 16, 20 years, whatever the range is from Barack Obama, from from Joe Biden. That is a lie. It's a poisonous lie. And it works hand in hand with this type of.

ghetto hatred that continues to tear this country apart. And again, we should just all walk away and say you've got to get your own house in order because white people were the problem. I mean, nobody can deny that this country was white supremacist, but now there's not a single institution in the country, Charlie, that is not giving massive privileges to blacks and is hiring blacks

way ahead of their qualifications. It's the same with every academic institution. If you want to go to law school or medical school, you better hope you're black because that'll give you a huge boost into that institution. It'll give you a huge boost into the medical profession, disregarding your lack of

So this thing has got to end. And I just don't know how much longer white people are going to allow themselves to be guilt tripped away from doing the right thing, which is treating everybody equally on the basis of their qualifications and their character. The.

Undisputed mythology of modernity is that whites are oppressing blacks. Turns out that's not true. It's actually the opposite that is true. Let's continue. Play cut 36. Because to be real, they didn't even try. Once the lesser charge was removed, they came back an hour later and said it was deadlocked.

Less than an hour and 20 minutes later, they said not guilty. These wonderful white people, I hope they celebrate their Christmas while the Neely family is praying and asking God for comfort. God damn them and God damn America. What has the Neely family done for Jordan Neely? What has that woman done for Jordan Neely? Nothing.

This thing is just it's just preposterous. You know, we all felt after the election that maybe racial reconciliation and we've at least the Hispanics are kind of moving towards Republicans and people were hoping for blacks. This has been a very depressing moment. You know, I saw the racialization from the start and you to my absolute disgust. You had the prosecution in this case also playing the race card and and and.

accentuating that Penny was white, which has nothing to do with the incident. But it's been worse afterwards. This is really, really poisonous stuff that's being said here. And again, all these people are just play acting. They have not done anything to help the mentally ill chemical abusers. And the government also has its hands are very dirty in this case. For them to have the gall

to charge Penny with reckless homicide, with being reckless towards the possibility that his effort to restrain Neely, to protect his fellow passengers, carried a risk of death.

The government in New York State and New York City is not reckless with regards to the risk of death from these mentally ill, violent chemicals. It is certain that more people will die by allowing these people to remain on the streets, and they do nothing about it.

They are the ones who are responsible for Jordan Neely's death, and they're also responsible for the three people who were stabbed to death by a mentally ill vagrant on November 18th in the city, because it is a certainty that these people will act out violently.

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including the diversity delusion. She was way ahead of the curve on diversity delusion back in 2018. Heather, you could argue that the diversity delusion was kind of the beginning warning slash critique of woke before that was in the main zeitgeist of forced hiring practices, admission standards, and how it brings down everybody. Then you wrote when race trumps merit a couple years ago,

I know that you are pessimistic by nature. However, I'm going to try to force you into a posture of optimism here. Are you seeing a societal rebuke of these practices and set of ideas? Enough to give you a little bit of hope.

A little bit of hope. Absolutely, Charlie, I am. Good. You have these corporations starting to cave so easily. We should have had a better fight. But, you know, the reaction to the penny verdict and the reaction to the assassination of the health care CEO, that makes me more pessimistic again. But nevertheless, clearly we've had corporations that have said, OK, we went through the charade of

pretending that we're racist organizations with all of, and we're going to, you know, increase our percentage of blacks in a completely unrealistic way, given the academic skills gap. And many of them now, you know, have thrown that aside. So that's a very good sign.

And the election obviously was also a very good sign. I didn't see that one coming. My pessimist nature means that I've lost four steak bed dinners on the outcome, which I'm very happy to pay up because I always believe in being pleasantly surprised rather than disappointed. You optimists get so much disappointment. But but I think maybe, maybe.

There's people that are saying we're not going to take this any longer. The red state governors have been doing great things of just saying, wait a minute, we're just not going to pay for these completely parasitic, unnecessary, hostile bureaucracies on college campuses. And the federal government, you know, assuming Trump isn't assassinated, you know, I have enough of a pessimist that I worry about that.

But J.D. Vance would take over. Unlike Harris, there's somebody who's actually ready to take over the presidency. But anyway, we shouldn't be talking about these dark matters. But he's now got the anti-white male –

ideology in his sights, whether it's going to be Jay Bhattacharya removing all the race and gender preferences from scientific research grants, Stephen Miller, who's going to go after the regulations that are hostile to white males. So it's possible that, especially if we had 12 years in the White House, we would get at least this insanity out of government.

So that's only two minutes remaining here. Heather, just can you even be more specific? Office of Civil Rights now, staffed by Harmeet Dhillon. We have Stephen Miller. We have a whole all-star team of very technical, capable people, Russ Vogt, of where you think we can really fight this race, diversity, DEI leviathan that has been strangling the country. What can we do?

Take out any mention of race and sex in anything having to do with government unless it is saying you must treat everybody equally. But if it talks about equity, if it says we are going to give scientific grants to black people or gay people or, God forbid, females, just because we think that being female is an accomplishment or being gay is an accomplishment, get out.

rid of those regulations and go to Congress and say, get rid of disparate impact. Disparate impact is a completely poisonous idea that holds that is the end of civilization. Disparate impact says that if you have a standard of behavior that says you will be law abiding and that has a disparate impact on black criminals, you get rid of the standard of

rather than saying, how about you obey the law? If you have a standard that says doctors have to be qualified to practice medicine, if that has a disparate impact on minority applicants, you get rid of the standard because it has disparate impact. We got to get rid of that concept. I had not heard about Harmeet Dhillon. That's you breaking news on this show, Charlie. That's fantastic.

So, you know, they can do a lot. The Code of Federal Registration is just a complete landmine for anti-white male hatred. Let's bring civilization back. Let's be proud of what Western civilization gave the world, which is prosperity, fairness, equality, and the ability to realize your own potential. Heather, thank you. We have an all-star team of people that are going to use

the power given to the executive branch to fight back against this. It's an exciting time to be alive. Heather, thank you so much. Come back anytime. Wonderful work. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com. Thanks so much for listening and God bless. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.