WWDTM: Happy Independence Day!
47:18 Share

This message comes from Peloton. Whatever road lies ahead, your training starts here. From classes on Peloton Tread or Tread Plus to outdoor runs on the Peloton app. Peloton All Access Memberships separate. Learn more at onepeloton.com slash running.

This message comes from NPR sponsor, Instacart. This season, Instacart has your back-to-school. As in, they've got your back-to-school lunch favorites, like snack packs and fresh fruit. School supplies, like backpacks, binders, and pencils. And they've got your back when your kid casually tells you they have a huge school project due tomorrow. Download the Instacart app to get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes all school year long. Get a $0 delivery fee for your first three orders while supplies last. Minimum $10 per order. Additional terms apply.

From NPR and WBEZ Chicago, this is Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, the NPR News Quiz. I'm the man whose voice is bigger than John Hancock's signature. Bill Curtis, and here is your host at the Studebaker Theater in downtown Chicago, Illinois, Peter Sagal. Thank you, Bill. Thank you, everybody. Thank you all so much. Um...

We are taking this week off to celebrate Independence Day, not the holiday, the movie. Every year we here all gather with family and friends and listen to Bill show us how President Whitmore's speech from that movie should be done. We will not go quietly into the night. We will not vanish without a fight. We're going to survive.

Today we celebrate our Independence Day. I mean...

The aliens would have surrendered without a fight, right? So while Bill's doing his vocal warm-ups, we're reaching into the archive for fireworks from our past interviews. In 2018, we were joined by the actor H. John Benjamin. And if you don't know who he is, you will as soon as you hear his voice. As the voice of both the animated super spy Archer and of Bob of Bob's Ballad.

I asked him which character was most like him. Yeah, I mean, I think it sort of does follow the current of my life. I started as Archer, and now I'm a little more Bob. You're a little more Bob. Yeah. And I'm just going to say this, they sound exactly alike. I mean, I don't think you're hearing the subtle differences. All right. Could you demonstrate? Yeah.

Do a quote from Archer and then do a quote from Bob. We'll be the judge. All right, go for it. All right, here we go. Ready? Yes. I would like a strawberry milkshake and an apple pie. Wow. Who was that? Who was that? Was that Archer or was that Bob? You could guess. No, that was unquestionably Archer. You think so? Yeah, I heard it. That was Archer. Yeah. Yeah. Now do Bob. Now do Bob. Same thing. I want a strawberry milkshake and an apple pie.

Oh, yeah. There you go. I see that. Yeah.

Do you get recognized in public? Many people, of course, don't know what you look like, I guess, but they absolutely know what you sound like. Does that ever happen to you? You're ordering a pizza and people go, wait a minute. Sometimes that does happen, very infrequently. But I, at my local Starbucks, I'm

I don't know if everybody's familiar with Archer, but there's a running gag where he calls out to one of his coworkers, whose name is Lana, who is his girlfriend. And my Starbucks barista was named Lana. Yes. So the running gag in Archer is I go, I am always calling out, Lana, Lana, Lana. And for years I did that to my Starbucks barista.

And was she amused? She was just like totally flummoxed by why I was yelling. And then I would say like about a year and a half ago, I went in and she was like, I watched your show. You've been doing that for two years. So, John, you've written a book. It's called Failure is an Option. And it is a memoir of all the times you have failed.

I had to leave out a ton of stories. I don't remember if I actually told a story about failing at it, but one of the things you're not any good at is music, which did not prevent you from releasing a jazz album.

Recently. Wow. Which is called, I think it's called, Well, I Should Have Learned to Play the Piano. Is that what it's called? That is exactly what it's called, yeah. Can you explain how this came to be or maybe why this came to be? It was just an idea I had, a concept I had, and I hired a bunch of professional jazz music

musicians who, and then met them at a recording studio, who then proceeded to find out that I can't play piano. Right.

So you just sat at the piano. I sat at the piano, and when they kind of nodded over to me, I just hit some keys a lot. Well, I'm sure our audience is wondering what that must have sounded like, and we actually have a sample. So this is H. John Benjamin's jazz record, Well, I Should Have Learned to Play the Piano. Here we go. As you were doing this with these professional jazz musicians...

Did their level of rage and indignation increase during the... It was like a... I mean, it started that way, and then it was like a simmer. So they kind of got into it. Really? We met in the middle at some point. Did you do any scatting? That would be horrible. I did like some yelling out. Like, come on, guys! Come on, for the press now! Yeah, here we go! Yeah!

There we go. Oh, you know what would have been great? It's stay with me. Yeah, yeah. Come on, guys, stay with me. God, that's funny. All right, follow me now, follow me. Well, John Benjamin, it is a delight to talk to you, but we have asked you here today to play a game that this time we're calling... Thwack Bullseye. So, you play Archer Super Spy. We thought we'd ask you about archery super sport.

Answer two out of these three questions about archery. You'll win our prize. For one of our listeners, Bill, who is John Benjamin playing for? Rob Douglas of Ann Arbor, Michigan. All right. You ready for this, John? I'm ready. All right. First question. As it happens, archery is the national sport of the nation of Bhutan, but they do it under special Bhutan rules, which includes what little quirk? A, competitors are allowed to attempt to catch the opponent's arrow, in which case they automatically win. B,

B, you are allowed to trash talk your opponent while she tries to shoot. Or C, in the case of a tie, the competitors shoot at each other as a tiebreaker. I'm going to go with A. You're going to go with A, that if you can reach out and snag the arrow out of the air, you automatically win.

Yeah. No, it was actually B. You're allowed to trash talk your opponent. Oh, boot on. Boot on. You're allowed to trash talk your opponent and you can even stand near the target and wave around and try to distract them. Oh, wow. Although that strikes me as dangerous. Surprise.

All right, next question. Recently, a father in Vietnam used his bow and arrow to bring fame to his family. How? A, he won Mr. Vietnam by ballroom dancing with a bow as his partner during the talent competition. B, he tied his son's loose tooth to an arrow and shot it into the air. Or C, his Halloween costume design went viral when he dressed his older daughter as a fully functional bow and she could fling his younger daughter who was dressed as an arrow. All right.

Well, C is insane. B is radically dangerous. So I'll go with A? You're going to go with A, that he won the Mr. Vietnam competition by ballroom dancing with a bow as his partner. Oh, so you're definitely cluing me in that it's not A. I am. All right, I'll go with B. You're right, it was B. He tied his son's tooth with an arrow, shot the arrow in the air.

So here's your last question, John. Sometimes archery can be used for practical purposes. As in which of these incidents? A, retired Olympic archer Daryl Pace is hired by Macy's to help deflate parade balloons after the Thanksgiving Day parade by shooting them. B, a man in Washington State used a bow and arrow to shoot a bag of marijuana into a jail for some friends there.

Or C, a woman in Montana was last seen shooting down a bag of chips from the top shelf at a grocery store. I think I'll go with B. You're right, it was B. The guy was caught after he shot the pot into the jail with an arrow. He said he was just trying to shoot a squirrel, about which the sheriff said he had no explanation as to why squirrel hunting requires attaching marijuana to an arrow.

Bill, how did John Benjamin do on our quiz? Well, he ruined his record. That two out of three is a win. Yes. Oh, no. John Benjamin, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thank you, John. Take care.

Now, a few weeks ago, we went to Seattle, where just before we were scheduled to do our show, I came down with COVID. Emergency guest host Tom Papa flew in to man the ship, and here's a question that didn't make the final broadcast. Shantira, researchers in Australia have found an ant colony that responds to danger by having the entire colony do what? Go to the queen and say, help us. Ha ha ha.

Would you like a hint? I would love more than one. I'd love to give you one. They all draw little X's over their eyes. They don't move and they hang their tongues out. Oh, they pretend to be dead? Yes, they play dead. Researchers discovered the ant colony in Australia on Kangaroo Island. Oh.

Checks up. The researchers stumbled on what appeared to be a whole colony of dead ants, but then one of them moved. Terry! Stupid Terry. Australia's animals are different. Are they the size of bees? How did they know?

Well, it is Kangaroo Island, so I'm going to just guess they're the size of kangaroos. Yeah, that sounds right. I chased a kangaroo once over a hill in Australia. I went on a little jog one morning, and there was a mama kangaroo and her joey. And I saw them, and they kind of looked at me, and they hopped over this hill. And I went jogging after them over this beautiful hill. And then I got to the other side, and there was about 400 kangaroos. Whoa. And I...

sprinted in the opposite direction because it was terrifying. One was like sharpening a knife on its hand. Luke, that's not annoying. Right? I ain't dead yet. I ain't dead yet. When we come back, the unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt who survived 10 years in a bunker and director Rian Johnson who survived dealing with Star Wars fans. That's when we come back with more of Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me from NPR. Now!

I ain't dead yet.

This message comes from NPR sponsor Allbirds. Their Tree Runner Go is the perfect travel shoe no matter where your journey takes you. They're packable, breathable, and washable. They deliver all-day comfort with an ultra-cushioned midsole and durability, but with an elevated design that suits any setting. Get the Allbirds Tree Runner Go for your next trip at allbirds.com and use code WAIT and score a free pair of socks with purchase today.

That's A-L-L-B-I-R-D-S dot com. Code WAIT. Support for this podcast and the following message come from Peloton. Run the way you want with Peloton. Whatever road lies ahead, your training starts here. Tap into expertly programmed workouts and real-time metrics that take your fitness journey to new heights. From their strength classes designed for runners on Peloton Tread or Tread Plus to guided outdoor runs on the Peloton app. Call

Call yourself a runner. Peloton All Access Membership Separate. Learn more at onepeloton.com slash running.

This message comes from NPR sponsor BetterHelp. When your schedule is packed with kids' activities or big work projects and you feel like you have no time for yourself, self-care non-negotiables like therapy are more important than ever. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try and get 10% off your first month at BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash NPR.

From NPR and WBEZ Chicago, this is Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, the NPR News Quiz. I'm Bill Curtis, and here is your host at the Studebaker Theatre in the Fine Arts Building in downtown Chicago, Illinois, Peter Sagal. Thank you, Bill. Thank you, everybody. Thank you.

We are in fact taking the week off to celebrate the greatest movie ever made, Independence Day, which reveals that even though the aliens may have super weapons and giant spaceships, they will still use Apple laptops. But even they refuse to subscribe to Apple Music.

So while we dress as our favorite characters for the screening we're going to have, we're bringing back some great segments from past shows. Ellie Kemper was the star of The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, which was one of the best sitcoms of the last decade. When she joined us in 2018, Peter asked her about an earlier experience auditioning for Saturday Night Live. Okay.

Listen, out of the gate here, I reveal that my heart is pounding. I'm an anxious, nervous person, and I'm going to 30 Rockefeller Center to meet Lorne Michaels. Of course I call him Michael Lawrence. I mean, his last name sounds like a first name. Not my fault. So you have this new book. It's called Swirl Days, and the first thing you say in the book is that you say you have to write a book because you're starring in a TV show, and that's what TV stars do. Yes, it's just a matter of course. It's a matter of course. I wanted to make it clear that I was trying to write a very good book.

I hope you like it. It is true. It is in all the great books, like Moby Dick begins, call me Ishmael, I'm sorry, but I was contracted to do this. Exactly. He was great on Bugs and Buddies. He was terrific. He was great. Ishmael was the best. Tell us why you decided to call your memoir Squirrel Days. One of the central essays of the book is about my ultimately unsuccessful attempt to befriend a squirrel in my backyard, which we all have been there. I mean, I definitely...

No, I'm just going to stop and say, I want you to finish the story. We have not all been there. Let's find it. So what happened with you? So you're a young girl. You're in St. Louis, right? I'm in St. Louis, or I was in St. Louis. I had just seen Dances with Wolves. I was a huge fan of The Secret Garden, and I thought, that's who I want to be. So I went out and I tried to become one with nature, sort of, like really get close to this plump squirrel who I nicknamed Natalie. And I realized that...

The world don't care. She had no interest in becoming my friend. And I did realize that nature is, you know, ultimately indifferent to us. And it was a hard lesson to learn early on. Ellie, maybe this girl was just indifferent to you. Do you think it was me? No. It could have been. You know what I think? I think Natalie was its last name. Yeah. Natalie went wrong. Yeah.

Natalie Lawrence. Do you think that now that you're famous, the squirrel's like, yeah, we were friends. What's interesting about, is this true, we were trying to piece this together, were you in fact a debutante back in St. Louis? I am mortified that you were trying to piece anything together. I'm living a nightmare right now. Yes, I was a debutante. You should know that if you don't want people to ask you embarrassing questions about your past, you should probably not write a memoir. Yeah.

You're not joking. So I was a squirrel-loving debutante, and that's the truth. What is a debutante? Yeah, explain, please, exactly, for those who don't know. They're people who talk to squirrels in their yards and stuff. I don't know if debutante society is bigger in, as I said, I'm from St. Louis, so that's the Midwest, but I feel like it's bigger in the South, and it's essentially a, oh, gosh, how is there a way to make this sound palatable? It's where young women are introduced to society.

And aren't there special balls at which this is done? And you wear white dresses. And wear white dresses and white gloves, yeah. I'm only 18 when it happened, or 19. So yeah, the whole thing is, it's a spectacle. Maybe some people in the audience were, Debbie Johnson, no, I'll tell you. No, I don't think so. No.

So you play Kimmy on Kimmy Schmidt, The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, a show created by Tina Fey on Netflix. And it seems as if that role was written for you. Is that correct?

I think that it was, or I know that it was, which is a huge compliment. I mean, because, yeah, I think it was like, I'm sure there were many people that they were considering writing a show for, and then I think this idea was their favorite idea. If people don't know it, Kimmy Schmidt is a character who had a terrible upbringing. She was held in a bunker for many, many years, and then the show is all about how she deals with real life as she emerges into it as an adult, and she is absolutely...

I guess unbreakable. She never gets upset. She never gets frustrated. She's always incredibly cheerful no matter what happens to her. Is that you? Is that the kind of person you are? Well, some say that the debutante ball was my bunker. Okay.

I think that there's a little bit of me in that character. This will sound so corny, but I have drawn such strength from Camille. She is fierce. She refuses to let outside circumstances dictate her own actions. I have a fraction of that maybe on a good day. I really do think she's been through this unimaginable ordeal. She still chooses to think the best in people, which I think is remarkable.

I do want to reference because we had him in the show last week. The big reveal, spoiler, at the end of the first season that the evil man who kept you in prison is played by Jon Hamm. Yes. Which is hilarious. And we found out he was actually your high school drama teacher. I know. Is that crazy? Yeah.

He's 10 years older than I am. I'm younger, no big deal. And he graduated college and he came back to our high school, John Burroughs School, to teach for a year. And he taught me the improv section of my theater class, which is nuts. Did you call him Mr. Ham on set? No.

No, she called him Ham Mister. She would just get so nervous. Yeah, I know. Every time I'm flustered, it just gets the name flipped. Well, Ellie Kemper, we are delighted to talk to you. We've invited you here to play a game we're calling Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt. Meet the Unbreakable Jimmy Schmitz. Oh, no.

Answer two questions about the distinguished actor, Jimmy Smits. Okay. And you'll win a prize for one of our listeners, the voice of their choice. From anyone on the show, Bill, who was Ellie Kemper playing for? Patrick Hoskin of Los Angeles, California. All right, Ellie, here's your first question. Jimmy Smits was in Steve Bochco's infamous failed musical cop show, Cop Rock. But that's not his only musical role. He also appeared in what? A, if you could read his mind, the Gordon Lightfoot musical. Yeah.

B, Exorcist, the musical. Or C, Mother Goose, a rappin' and a rhymin' special. Um, C? Yes! You were? Oh, my God! Next question about the unbreakable Jimmy Smits. For a lot of young people, Jimmy Smits is most well-known for playing Senator Bail Organa in the recent spate of Star Wars movies. How did he get the part? A, George Lucas' original choice showed up for the interview hungover.

B. Smits just showed up in the set in costume and talked his way on. Or C. The casting director owed him some money. I'm very good at this game. I think I've demonstrated that, so I'm going to go with my gut and say A. You're right again. That's what happened.

George Lucas wanted a British actor to play the role. He showed up. The guy came down all hungover. George Lucas didn't like it. Jimmy Smith's got the part. I love that story. Okay. All right. Your last bit of trivia about the unbreakable Jimmy Smiths. How tall is Jimmy Smiths? Is he A, 5'8", B, 6'3", or C, 12 feet tall? I think he's... I mean, he's 6'3". Yes, he is. He's 6'3". Congratulations. Thank you.

Bill, how did Ellie Kemper do on our show? Excellent. Ellie got them all right. Congratulations. Ellie Kemper, in addition to being a delightful person, has written a genuinely delightful book called My Squirrel Days. Ellie Kemper, thank you so much for joining us on Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you, Ellie. Nice to meet you. Bye-bye, Ellie. Bye, Peter. Bye, guys. Thank you. One break, one break, and fall hard.

Like me, Rian Johnson grew up in the 70s as a huge Star Wars fan. But unlike me, he then got to direct a Star Wars movie, The Last Jedi. And we talked to him back in 2013 when that movie came out. He started preparing early, making movies with his friends in high school. Well, they're mostly just, you know, your friends get together on a weekend and you're bored and you've got a camera and you say, why don't we try making a...

James Bond movie. Why don't we try making it? They're mostly just doing weird little takes on different genres. And they also usually, ironically, involved blowing up old action figures. Yeah, really? Yeah, because you're like, what would this look like if we tied a firecracker to this Jawa? So you were blowing up Star Wars action figures? Yeah, it would be amazing if you're sitting there blowing up a Jawa.

A little jolly creature from the first Star Wars movie. And a time traveler shows up and says, Ryan, you are not going to believe this. So fast forwarding, you make a number of movies. Your first movie, Brick, was hugely acclaimed. And you made some more films that were just tremendously admired. Tell me about how you got this job. What is it like to be hired to direct the next Star Wars movie?

This came entirely out of the blue. It was for something that was an incredibly surprising thing. It was presented to me in the most surprising way possible, which is Kathleen Kennedy, who runs Lucasfilm. She called me into her office for what I thought was just a general meeting. I had no idea what I was stepping into. And she basically shut the door behind me and asked me, just dropped this bomb, asked me if I'd be interested in doing this. And I had...

literally no clue that I was in the running, would ever be in the running for something like this. So it was, I don't remember much about that meeting. Did they explain what it was about you that they said, yes, you're the guy we've picked?

I had no idea, and to be quite honest, I didn't push them on it. Ryan, Adam Felber here. I've got to ask one question. I love your movie. One thing I really love about the script is twice in the movie, one of the good guys and the bad guys, Luke Skywalker and Kylo Ren, float the idea that maybe this whole Jedi thing is a terrible idea that leads to a lot of death.

Aren't they right? Hey. They're not entirely wrong. I've got one. If we're going to do nerd questions, I've got one. You guys broke the seal, and now we're going to be here all night. But there's this rather infamous scene in The Last Jedi in which Luke, as he goes about his day on his remote island, milks this creature.

And I just want to ask you, was that the answer to the 40-year-old question, where the heck does Aunt Beru's blue milk come from? Well, if you want to get technical, no, because it would be a different creature, because that's an aquatic creature, and there's not much water on Tatooine. And also, our milk is slightly green. Oh, wow.

I see. Kaboom. Yeah, damn it. I thought I was entertaining the hell out of my friends on Facebook with that theory. Okay, Ryan, before we go into the game, I have to ask you about Kylo Ren's pants in the movie. Are you familiar with the Kylo Ren challenge? Oh, I am indeed. Yes. So there's a scene where the incredibly toned and buff and beautiful Adam Driver is shirtless.

Yes. He had been training at this point for doing intense fighting training for like six months, and so he just looked incredible. And he's wearing these slightly high-waisted pants. It's a very distinct look. He looks rad. And who was it who started it online? Somebody famous started a meme where they –

basically went shirtless with kind of high-waisted black pants and took a selfie. And they call it the Kylo Ren challenge. Yeah, so are you buff enough to wear these pants? I have to ask you a question. Were you not allowed to show Adam Driver's navel to the movie viewers of America? Because those are some pretty funny-looking pants. Do you have a navel rider? No. Those are just the pants and the costume, I think. All right, take off the shirt. That's what you got.

Ryan Johnson. Did you expect a Galaxy of Our Way to have lowriders? I don't know. But I was like, Kylo Ren is like a terrifying villain. He kills people. It doesn't mean he can't have a shy navel. No, and it turns out he wears his pants like my grandfather. It was a long time ago. It was. And there's Kylo Ren with his pants pulled up past his puppet. Yeah.

Well, Ryan Johnson, it is a joy to talk to you. And as you could tell, some of us could do it all day. But we have business to do. We have asked you to play a game we're calling... Storage Wars. You are now...

A Star Wars director. So we thought we'd ask you about Storage Wars. That's the reality show where people guess what's in storage lockers. Now, we have made our own version of that game for you here. So we're going to ask you three questions about storage units, and you will win our prize for one of our listeners if you get two of them right. So, Bill, who is Ryan Johnson playing for? Sarah Anderson of Salt Lake City, Utah. All right. Here we go. You ready to play, Ryan?

Let's do it. All right, first Storage Wars challenge. If you were like one woman in Alabama a few years ago, you could make a cool $100,000 from a storage locker if you just do what? A, rent it out as a waterfront condominium to blind people. B, get locked in it for 63 days and win a lawsuit. Or C, discover it was sitting on a huge deposit of coal. Oh, boy. I would guess...

C? You're going to go with C? No, it was actually B. Get locked in it. No, this woman, she says that she was locked in there for 63 days and no one let her out, so she won a settlement from the storage locker owner. What did she eat or drink? Happily for her, she was locked in there with lots of canned goods and juice. Wow. The storage locker owner thinks this whole thing was a scam, but still had to pay up $100,000. All right.

Next question, if you get the next two, you still win. A storage locker in Michigan was opened in 2009. Now, if you had bid on that storage locker and won it, would you have found A, the world's largest hairball coughed up by a Detroit cat in 1933, B, four years of mail a particular mailman did not feel like delivering,

Or C, President Barack Obama's missing college transcripts? Well, B made me laugh, so I'm going to go with B. You're figuring this out. That's the right one. Yes. Yes.

It turns out that this letter carrier in the Detroit area just, like, couldn't handle all the letters that he was supposed to deliver every day, so he would just stuff them into this storage locker he rented, and he did that for four years. Yes.

Last storage challenge. In 2015, you could have bought a particular storage locker in California for $80. Just $80. And it ended up containing which of these? A, a fully functioning meth lab. B, $79 in pennies. Or C, a woman who'd been trapped in there for 63 days eating nothing but juice and canned food.

Oh, good. I'm tempted by the irony of B, but I'm going to go with A. You're right. It was, in fact, a fully functioning meth lab. Wow. Hot tip. If you're going to run a meth lab in a rented storage locker, pay your rent. Yeah.

Bill, how did Rian Johnson do on our quiz? Well, part of the force was with him. You got two out of three, and that means you're a winner, Rian. Again. Again, he's a winner. Rian Johnson is, of course, the writer, director of The Last Jedi. Rian, thank you so much for the movie, and thank you for being with us on Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. Thank you so much, guys. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

When we come back, two people who couldn't have less in common except their middle initial. It's Oscar winner Ruth E. Carter and Oscar nominee Richard E. Grant on Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me from NPR. ♪

Support for NPR and the following message come from SimpliSafe Home Security. Picture this, a stranger with a crowbar pries open a window, a fire breaks out in the kitchen. In moments like these, every second counts. That's why you need SimpliSafe Home Security. With SimpliSafe, 24-7 monitoring agents act within 5 seconds of receiving your alarm. Visit simplisafe.com slash wait to save 20% on a new system today. That's simplisafe.com slash wait. There's no safe like this.

Simply safe. This message comes from NPR sponsor Viking, committed to exploring the world in comfort. Be inspired to plan a small ship voyage to France in 2025. With an exclusive docking location in the heart of Paris and privileged access experiences, Viking brings curious travelers closer to the most iconic destinations across France. Discover more at viking.com.

Support for NPR and the following message come from Amazon Business. Everyone could use more time. Amazon Business offers smart business buying solutions so you can spend more time growing your business and less time doing the admin. Learn more at amazonbusiness.com.

From NPR and WBEZ Chicago, this is Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, the NPR News Quiz. I'm Bill Curtis, and here is your host at the Studebaker Theater in the Fine Arts Building in downtown Chicago, Illinois, Peter Sagal. Thank you, Bill. Thank you, everybody. Thank you.

We're here getting ready for our annual showing of Independence Day, the movie, which frankly has a much better plot than the story behind The Holiday. Did Benjamin Franklin ever punch an alien in the face? I think not. LAUGHTER

So while we prepare for the big climactic battle reenactment, we are going to bring you some gems from our archives. In 2019, costume designer Ruth E. Carter made Oscar history as the first black woman to win an Oscar for costume design. And then she did it again in 2023. Before we ask her about her Oscar for Black Panther, we had to ask her about her job.

Now, you're the first costume designer we've ever talked to, so I just wanted to go over some basic stuff. So, you're the costume designer for a film. Do you ever have to deal with actor egos, like you pick out the perfect costume for a particular character and like, I'm not going to wear that? You know, I guess you deal with actors' egos on a different level. You know, sometimes they say, you know, I can't wear that color, you know, or...

But because we're discovering a character, we are both kind of contributing to the conversation. Right. So you have to occasionally just say, yes, so maybe your character has a bigger butt. Exactly. Yes. So let's get to the fun stuff, which is a movie like Black Panther. Comic book movie, fictional, fantastical science fiction country. You are like the most qualified person to answer.

ask about something that I've always thought, which is that a great problem for making comic book movies is that unlike in comic books, people wearing superhero suits in real life essentially look dumb. Yeah, because they don't realize it's their whole process to making that thing. You just don't go to the store and get some spandex and sew it up.

No. So how do you make it so like the Black Panther when he's in his superhero suit running around doesn't look dumb? Yeah, well, we do a muscle sculpt. That helps. What do you mean? Well, we take a vacuform kind of mannequin version of Chadwick Boseman's real body form and we add the clay to his muscles and we form a superhero kind of physique. Are you telling me that that's... I'm telling you to see

That's not all Chadwick Boseman under there? No, and so it doesn't matter how much muscle milk you drink, you're never going to be a superhero. You've got to have some clay muscles. So you're telling me that that, like, amazing...

Superhero suit is just like those padded things that the kids have at Halloween. Like the muscles are like built in. Listen, don't do this at home, kids. It's not exaggerated as you might think. It's just more shoulders, you know? It's not much. Well, when you make my suit, I want more than a little help. Okay.

So you are now an Oscar-winning costume designer. You've been a leading costume designer in many, many films for many, many years. Does that put some pressure on you to dress when you go out in public? Oh, no. I've always been the anti-fashion. I think that's what makes me kind of unique, that I'm not trying to please or prove myself to anyone. It's not in how I look. It's how I dress other people. Come on.

Really? Yeah. All right. Well, how about Halloween? I would expect if you came to my Halloween party, which I hope you do someday, I would expect that you would walk in with like the costume. Yeah, that's why I don't go to Halloween parties.

Well, Ruth Carter, what a pleasure to talk to you. We've invited you here to play a game we're calling... I hate Mondays. You designed Black Panther, so we decided to ask you about the Orange Panther. That is Garfield. The inexplicably beloved comic strip character.

Answer two out of three questions correctly, you'll win a prize for one of our listeners, the voice of anyone they might choose in their voicemail. Bill, who is Ruth Carter playing for? Branton, Angie in Indianapolis. Oh. Now, you ready to play, Ruth? I'm ready. Here's your first question. Garfield was invented by his creator, Jim Davis, back in 1978. What inspired Mr. Davis to create the beloved character? A, his own cat, a beloved tubby tabby named Taft.

B, his brother, who was fat, lazy, loved lasagna, and occasionally cleaned himself by licking his hands. Or C, a desire to create a quote, a good marketable character, unquote, that would make him a lot of money. His tubby tabby.

No, it was C. He wanted to make a lot of money. Really? That's disappointing. He did some research and at the time there were all these dogs in the comics but no cats and he figured there were like 15 million cat owners who might enjoy a cat comic so he created it to be popular and it worked. Two more chances here. In 2004, Garfield the movie came out. It was panned by critics, of course.

But Garfield was voiced by legendary actor Bill Murray. Why did Bill Murray agree to play Garfield? Was it A, the producers agreed to pay him with a lifetime supply of Italian beef sandwiches from his favorite Chicago restaurant? B, he mistakenly thought that the movie's screenwriter, Joel Cohen, with an H, was Joel Cohen of the Coen brothers. LAUGHTER

Or C, he was still angry that he wasn't allowed to provide a voice for the gopher in Caddyshack. Oh, I'm going to try B. You're right! As unlikely as it sounds...

He thought that he was doing a movie that was written by one of the Coen brothers, and he says he didn't realize his mistake until he was in the studio recording his lines, and all of them were terrible. All right, last question. If you get this right, you win. Here we go. Not every Garfield strip has been embraced by his fans, such as which of these examples?

A, a 2007 strip in which Odie burns an American flag while screaming death to America. B, a 1997 strip in which John's girlfriend Liz catches him wearing her underwear. Or C, a series of strips the week of Halloween 1989 written as a horror comic

in which Garfield faces his greatest fear, existential loneliness? Oh, brother. Let's see. I'm going to try B. You're going to try B, in which John's girlfriend Liz catches him wearing her underwear? No, wait. No, don't do that one. Let's take C. C. C. So you're going to go for C, the existential horror? That's what it was. Yeah. That was a hard one.

It was hard. I thought it was a hard quiz. If you've never seen these very real comics from 1989, I highly recommend you look it up. Because Garfield, as opposed to being funny and chubby and angry, he wakes up in an empty house where no one is left. And he spends all week panicking because he's facing his greatest fear. Loneliness. Bill, how did Ruth Carter do on our quiz? Ruth got two out of three, which is a win for us. Yay! Woo!

I finally... Oh, I won a second prize. Yes! It's got to be better. It's just all uphill. It's like Oscar, wait, wait, don't tell me, Nobel. Ruth E. Carter won the Oscar for costume design for Black Panther just this year. A museum exhibit featuring her designs is now traveling the world. Ruth E. Carter, thank you so much for joining us on Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. Congratulations on the movie and the Oscar, and we'll look forward to what's next. Take care. ♪

This message comes from NPR sponsor, Capella University. With their game-changing FlexPath learning format, Capella empowers you to fit education into your life without putting other priorities on hold. FlexPath lets you set your own deadlines and adjust them if something comes up. And depending on your schedule, you can take courses at your own speed and move on to the next one when you're ready. Imagine how a flexible program can make a difference in your life at capella.edu.

This message comes from NPR sponsor Sony Pictures Classics presenting Kneecap, a new comedy about three friends who start a rap group that creates a movement, starring the group Kneecap as themselves and Michael Fassbender, now playing nationwide only in theaters. This message comes from NPR sponsor Capella University. Capella's programs teach skills relevant to your career so you can apply what you learn right away. See how Capella can make a difference in your life at capella.edu.

The same year that Ruth E. Carter won her first Oscar, Richard E. Grant was nominated for his first Academy Award after more than three decades as an actor. We talked to him before the ceremony. Everybody say hi, Richard. Hi.

There you go. Hi, y'all. Oh, you've learned American. Very good. So as I was saying, I usually ask actors what role they're most recognized for. Usually I can guess. In your case, I can't. So is there a role? Is it Withnail and I, that great cult movie you did a long time ago? Is it some more recent stuff? It falls into two distinct categories. It's either people old enough to have seen Withnail and I, this cult movie from 1987, or it's that other great masterpiece, Spice World the movie. There you are.

Do you know what a quintessential Richard E. Grant part is? Like somebody says, this is the perfect part for Richard E. Grant because it's a... Because the person is usually on the edge of a nervous breakdown or manic. Yeah, I would say that your characters all seem either happily or unhappily on the edge.

Unhinged. Yes, that's the word I was looking for. We also read that you enjoy smelling things. I do. I make perfume. You do, yes. How do you go about making perfume? And if you're an actor, is this something you've studied? Well, in 1969, when I was 12 years old, the first American that I ever met called Betsy Clapp with a double P. And I fell madly in love with her. She was fast-talking, gum-chewing. She taught me how to French kiss. I don't know whether you know what that means. It's use of the tongue. Oh, yes. Sorry.

That has recently arrived here on these shores, sir. Ah, good. And I tried to make perfume for her out of gardenia and rose petals boiled up in sugar water, just turned into stink bombs. And then finally, 40 years later, I've professionally made it as an adult. So it's lime, marijuana, mandarin, and a signature notes of the original scent. Wait a minute. You just said marijuana? Yes.

Yeah. So does this perfume have a name? Is it like Passion by Richard E. Grant? What's it called? No. No, you fool. It's called Jack. It's called Jack.

It's called Jack. It's unisex and it comes in a Union Jack bag inside a box and you can buy it online here and in stores in New York and in LA. Wow. And it's very useful if somebody catches you and you've been smoking weed all day, you can say, oh no, you're catching a whiff of my lovely perfume from Richard E. Grant called Jack. Exactly. That's a great sales gift. Listen, you've given me the best sales pitch here that I could have dreamt of. Everything I could do. I'm

we read that you're so interested in scent, obviously you are, that you like smell everything you encounter. Yeah, I don't understand why everybody doesn't.

Who is your best smelling co-star? Ah, well, I don't want to offend anybody because everybody has their own distinct ones. But there are some that I never want to smell again and I'm not going to tell you who they are. Right. I do want to ask you about your new film, which is, again, amazing. Can you ever forgive me? You play a real person who really lived and did some unpleasant things. He was, among other things, a bit of a liar and a cheat and a criminal.

And did that appeal to you when you got the part? Or were you like, okay, that's going to be a challenge? It did appeal to me because you understand through telling the story how he falls into this life of crime with Lee Israel. He's so brilliantly played by Melissa McCarthy. And I think that...

Once you understand why people do what they do, then compassion can flood in. So you understand people and you can feel sympathy for them. Right. The relationship between your two characters are extraordinarily central to the movie. And I always wonder if actors do this. Did you spend time with Melissa McCarthy improvising, pretending to be the people so you could get to know each other? It was just go on the set and you were friends or whatever. I met her on Friday in January.

And I'd imagine she smelled wonderful.

She did, and she's having my triplets in August. Oh, that's great. How wonderful for both of you. One last question before we get to the game. Let's assume that you win, but even if you don't, getting an Oscar nomination, or hopefully an Oscar, gives you more options in terms of what you want to do next. So you've been doing all kinds of different roles and all kinds of different projects. Is there a dream thing? If somebody says, Richard,

Richard E. Grant, Oscar winner, what would you like to do next? And you would say... I want to host your show. Damn it! LAUGHTER Bye, Peter. Well, Richard E. Grant, it is a delight to talk to you, as I think I've shown, but we have invited you here to play a game we're calling... Richard E. Grant, meet Ulysses S. Grant. So, you may or may not know, we here in the US once had a president named Ulysses S. Grant,

He'll probably be the star of a hip-hop musical any day now. We're going to ask you three questions about our president, Grant. Answer two correctly. You'll want to ask one of our listeners the voice of their choice in their voicemail. Bill, who is Richard Grant playing for? Chris Billig of Austin, Texas. All right. Here we go. Grant's original name at birth was Hiram Ulysses Grant, but he eventually dropped the Hiram. Why? A, he disliked being made fun of for his initials, Hug. B, he found out Hiram was the name of his father's favorite mule,

Or C. Hiram Grant owed a lot of money to the local saloon, but nobody had ever heard of Ulysses Grant. C. No, it was A. He didn't like being called Hug. Apparently elementary school in the early 19th century was just as vicious as it is today. Next question. One of Ulysses S. Grant's lesser known claims to fame as a U.S. president is that he had what? A. He had the first known pet fish in the White House named Ufishies S. Grant. LAUGHTER

B, according to a historian of hairstyles, Grant had the, quote, hairiest cabinet in presidential history. I've never heard it described like that. I'm afraid that, like, hairy cabinet is a euphemism where you come from. It's not. Or C, he wrote the song Hail to the Chief, which he originally titled Hail to the Me.

I think it has to be the hairy cabinet. Of course, you're right, yes. Thank you. According to the book, 1,000 mustaches. Every man in Grant's cabinet had either a beard, a mustache, or exceptional ear hair. All right, last question. It is, as we all know, Ulysses S. Grant first rode to fame and national stature as a general in the Civil War. But that fate for him was somewhat surprising. Why? Was it, A, he was so afraid of blood, he reportedly couldn't even look at a rare steak without freaking out?

B, his high school voted him least likely to lead the Union Army to victory. Or C, he had a terrible allergy to heart attack. To what? Heart attack, which was the kind of biscuit... That one might keep in a hairy cabinet. Yes. I think it has to be number two. Wait a minute. You think it was his high school? Yeah. And like...

1834, whenever it was he graduated, voted him least likely to lead the Union Army? Yes, definitely. If you want to go with that, I will respect that because I am a fan. You just make up your mind. Okay, I'm going with that. And as so many of your characters are, you're gloriously mistaken.

The answer was, of course, A, he was so afraid of blood, apparently, that he couldn't even deal with a raw steak. It does make you wonder how, I guess, that's why he wanted to win so bad, so it would be over. Bill, how did Richard Grant do in our quiz? You know, we're going to give it to him because he's starring with one of our hometown stars, Melissa McCarthy from Chicago. So congratulations, you are a winner, Richard. Thank you.

Have I won like Donald Trump won? No, no, no. Yeah, you won like Donald Trump. And in the analogy, Bill is Putin. It goes as well for you come Oscar night. Richard E. Grant has been nominated so justly for an Oscar for his performance in Can You Ever Forgive Me? Richard E. Grant, thank you so much for joining us on Wait, Wait, Don't Wait. What a pleasure. Thank you, Richard. Good luck. Bye-bye. Have a good one. Bye-bye.

That's it for our Celebrating the Best movie with the title Independence Day edition. Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me is a production of NPR and WBEZ Chicago in association with Urgent Aircraft Productions, Doug Berman, Benevolent Overlord, Philip Koticka, Wrights, our limericks, our public address announcer is Paul Friedman, our tour manager is Shana Donald, our vibe curator is Emma Choi. Thanks to the staff and crew.

Thank you.

And thanks to all of you here in the Studio Baker Theater and everywhere for listening. You're fabulous. I am Peter Sagal, and we'll be back next week. This is NPR. This message comes from NPR sponsor Shopify, the global commerce platform that helps you sell and show up exactly the way you want to. Customize your online store to your style. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash NPR.

This message comes from NPR sponsor ShipBob. The holidays start earlier every year, so get your store and ship shape now with ShipBob. They'll handle fulfillment, provide key metrics, and more. Get a free quote at shipbob.com. ShipBob.