Tracking the Killer of Mary Catherine Edwards
40:08 Share

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to this podcast ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app today. True crime fans know the feeling. When a story pulls you in, you can feel like part of the investigation. And with Audible, there's a lot to uncover. Listeners might like After You've Gone by Margot Hunt.

This audible original is a gripping thriller that follows one woman as she tries to solve her best friend's murder in the French Quarter of New Orleans.

As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog, including the latest bestsellers and new releases. New members can try Audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash 48 hours or text 48 hours to 500-500. Audible.com slash 48 hours.

Are you holding back on travel plans this holiday break because you're afraid of the language gap? Well, no need to mind the gap.

If you have Babbel, speak like a whole new you with Babbel, the language learning app that gets you talking. With quick 10-minute lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts, Babbel gets you talking a new language in three weeks. And because talking is the key to really knowing a language, Babbel is designed for real conversation. Here's a special holiday deal for Wondry listeners. Right now, get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription. But

but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash truecrime. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash truecrime, spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash truecrime. Rules and restrictions may apply. ♪

We absolutely were obsessed with this case.

January 13, 1995 was the last known contact with Katherine. She's handcuffed. She's been tortured. It was always a big case within the department because it was the biggest case unsolved. Nobody felt safe anywhere. Nobody knew if it was a neighbor. Nobody knew if it was a police officer because of the handcuffs being used.

My name is Tina Llewellyn. Aaron Llewellyn. I'm a detective. I'm a detective at Beaumont Police Department. My sister's dead. My parents are over there. Who's your sister? Katherine Edwards.

I had no idea who Catherine Edwards was, but after I read decades of her journals, 1986, 1989, '91, '94, I feel like I know her. Things are looking up in my life. I'm going to teach second grade next year. I know I'm meant to do this. There were so many of her students that came forward to share the impact she had on their lives 25 years later. They were always close to me in my heart.

I'm Diana Coe, and I was friends with Catherine and her twin sister Allison since middle school. They were so sweet and so funny. They had a cute laugh, and everybody just loved them. This was not an easy case to crack. Every free moment, I would try to work this case while still maintaining my caseload. Staying up till midnight? Every night.

It just was not going to happen without the DNA. If there was no DNA in this case, if that evidence had not been properly maintained, nope, we'd have never got there. My name is Brandon Best, Sergeant, Texas Rangers, Company A Coal Case Team. The technology has changed so much since 1995. By the time we got to Catherine Edwards, there were a lot more of these resources that were available.

We felt that genetic genealogy was going to be the answer to this case. So you would do the police work? Yes. You would do the genealogy work? Yes. Along with another genealogist. My name is Shara Broussard-Lapointe.

Tina had started a tree and we really think alike and worked together to build this tree with 7,409 people in it. Oh my gosh. I would call her no less than five times a day. We were on the phone constantly. Telling her what I found. Just back and forth. I blew her phone up. Trying to get to the bottom. We had to narrow down the different family members to find the direct lineage of our suspect.

Is this someone that knew her? Is this someone that was a stranger? She had some, you know, ex-boyfriends. There was always the worry that it was a police officer. Some criminal is not going to have a pair of Smith & Wesson handcuffs. There was no sign of forced entry at the time, right? Right. Did we believe it was someone she knew? Yeah. Natalie Morales reports, tracking the killer of Mary Catherine Edwards.

The thing that really got me about the case was you don't expect to have this beautiful, young, single schoolteacher be murdered in her own home. She was such a great person, came from such a great family. For Texas Ranger Brandon Bess...

Almost everything about the Mary Catherine Edwards case was different. It was an unusual crime scene. She's over the bathtub, and she's obviously been sexually assaulted and handcuffed behind her back. Were they police-grade handcuffs? Handcuffs have always been a key piece of this. January 14, 1995.

It was a Saturday. Catherine, as most people called her, didn't show up for a family lunch and she wasn't answering her phone. When her mother and father went to check on her, they had to see what no parent ever should. What happened, ma'am? We came over here and found her. Please send someone. Okay, we're sending someone, ma'am. Was she shot or what? We can't tell. Catherine was 31.

Diana Coe remembers hearing the news. She had been friends with Catherine and her twin sister Allison since middle school.

I was new to the area, so I knew no one. And they just started talking to me, asked me my name, and we were friends from that point forward. The sisters, both schoolteachers, look so much alike, everyone had trouble telling them apart, especially their young students. Ms. Edwards was my second grade teacher. Helenia Adams remembers being in her classroom. Most of us grew up in a pretty tough environment.

And being around Ms. Edwards was a joy. Originally, they believed that she might have been drowned, but there wasn't enough fluid in her lungs. So then it kind of became a suffocation by compression. I just remember being told that our teacher wouldn't make it to class that day. Everyone just crying.

Early investigators could not piece together what happened, but those police-grade handcuffs were a big clue. It was almost talked about like a ghost story around a campfire. Detective Aaron Llewellyn. Maybe it was somebody in law enforcement or somebody in security. Could it have been somebody that we knew? In the weeks after the murder, police focused on tracing the serial numbers of the handcuffs, but came up empty.

They also zeroed in on an old boyfriend, David Perry. They focused on him early on because there was no forced entry. But Perry was out of town that night. He gave a DNA sample and it was not a match. I wasn't there. It's not me. The crime scene DNA stayed well preserved and the years dragged on and on.

until forensic science changed. Genetic genealogy technology. Genetic genealogy. By 2018, there was a way to take the DNA left at a crime scene and search for biological relatives. A program, GEDmatch, scarfs up all the DNA from people who agree to share it with law enforcement and upload it when they use sites like Ancestry.com and 23andMe. Ranger Best approached me and he asked if I thought we had a case that...

would fit the bill for that type of investigation. I said, absolutely, I know the perfect case for this. And it was the Catherine Edwards case. So in April 2020, the DNA from Catherine Edwards' crime scene went to Othram, a lab outside of Houston for testing. There they would give us familial matches. And from there, we would start trying to build a family tree to get us closer to our suspect. Yes.

But the number of names to pursue was overwhelming. When the family tree began to grow beyond my computer screen, I started to get a little bit confused, and that's when Tina jumped on board. Aaron's wife Tina, an auto crimes detective, began using her off hours to help sort through it. The matches were all Cajun. Cajun ancestry coming from the Louisiana area? Yes, particularly Kaplan, Louisiana. So Tina went back to Katherine's journals looking for clues.

to see if I could see a Cajun name that jumped out to me. I did find a few French names and they were quickly eliminated and nowhere in our tree. And as she was building out the branches, one of the names on the family tree kept coming up, LaPointe. As I'm researching the matches and building my trees and you're researching other people's trees, I kept noticing Cheryl LaPointe.

had built that tree. And then I'm working some more, I do some more research. Well, Shara LaPointe built this tree. And I'm like, is she related to our suspect? I had no idea who she was. This is actually my great-grandmother, Claudia. And when they called her, they found out Shara had been building her family tree. It was my family's DNA kits that I had uploaded to GEDmatch.

And then they found out something that changed the course of the investigation. Shara was known professionally as the gene hunter and already skilled at working these cases. She'd identified one of the women buried along Interstate Highway 45 in the Texas Killing Fields case.

And she agreed to lend her expertise. I told him that I was willing to help. Even if it meant taking a hard look at her own relatives. It was kind of scary because I'm putting my own second cousins in this tree and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, you know, could one of my grandfather's sister's grandchildren have done this? They lived here in Texas.

It was a complicated, multi-layered process using publicly available DNA, birth and death records, finding parents, siblings, and cousins. As you build those trees, you look for information that is pertinent to the case that you're working on. We had a tag for people who were in Beaumont. She was a teacher. As you build a tree, you look at people who are in education. Every one of these lines are built out.

The tree grew up and down and sideways. There were almost 7,500 names. That's a lot of hours, a lot of work, and a lot of people in a family tree. All the while, Tina hardly slept, working through most nights knowing there was a killer still out there. Every day counted. Every day mattered. I needed to get it solved.

Spark something uncommon this holiday with just the right gift from Uncommon Goods. The busy holiday season is here, and Uncommon Goods makes it less stressful with incredible hand-picked gifts for everyone on your list, all in one spot. Gifts that spark joy, wonder, delight, and that it's exactly what I wanted feeling. They scour the globe for original, handmade, absolutely remarkable things—

Somehow, they know exactly the perfect gift for every single person you know. Listen, when you shop at Uncommon Goods, you're supporting artists and small independent businesses. Many of their handcrafted products are made in small batches. So, shop now before they sell out this holiday season. To get 15% off your next gift, go to Uncommon Goods.

go to uncommongoods.com slash Wondery. That's uncommongoods.com slash Wondery for 15% off. Don't miss out on this limited time offer. Uncommon Goods. We're all out of the ordinary.

That's why we need a skincare routine that's easy, fast, and gives us results. Plus, what if your products had thousands of five-star reviews? Were natural and affordable? Well, say hello to Dime Beauty. Dime Beauty is clean, high-end skincare that is affordable.

And it really works. Not sure where to start? I highly recommend the Work System. It's everything you need in one powerful package. Take out the guesswork with a proven routine that includes a gentle yet effective cleanser, a super skin toner, two incredible serums, and two luxurious moisturizers.

See what everyone is raving about. From serum sets to the always sold out retinol alternative TBT cream, you'll find your perfect skincare match. Dime has over 2 million happy customers and their product reviews are literally five stars. Love your skin again. Go to dimebeautyco.com and unlock your discount. That's dimebeautyco.com. That's dimebeautyco.com.

Hunkered down at their computers day after day, constantly back and forth on the phone, Tina Llewellyn and genealogist Cheryl LaPointe are quickly becoming great partners. She was a team player from jump. Never had met me. We talked so often that we became friends. Best buds. Best buds. I don't know what else to say.

And when they needed DNA, they turned to Tina's husband, Aaron, and Texas Ranger Brandon Bess. So from that point, Brandon Bess would drop around Texas and go talk to these people. Convincing someone to give their DNA up, to give a piece of themselves up to you in a homicide investigation can be very difficult. When we would sense anxiety in someone, Aaron would immediately tell them, hey, who do you want to play you in the movie?

They would look at Aaron like he was crazy and say, "What are you talking about? This guy's a Texas Ranger." Everything they do turns into a movie.

Who do you want to play your role in this movie? That calmed them down every time. And I, of course, threw out there, hey, I've already got Brad Pitt. So, you know, you can't be Brad because Brad's playing me. Was there ever a time, though, that somebody actually thought, my uncle may actually be a killer? Who knows? In every one of these cases that I've worked using DNA and genetic genealogy, you have at least one person, usually two or three, that says, you know what? I had that weird Uncle Joe.

Once the uploads were compared to the killer's DNA, if the amount of shared genetic material was low, they knew it was a dead end. There were times when we would come across a name and you'd get the butterflies in your stomach like, hey, maybe this is our guy. And then it turns out it's not our guy. After almost three months of ups and downs and nearly nonstop work, Shara hit pay dirt.

It was about 10:30 at night. She was working a family line very distantly related to her own. It was a very common Cajun name, Thibodeau. I got to a couple who were in Beaumont.

I was able to see from records that they had two sons. This was a major lead, a family in Catherine's town with two sons who went to Forest Park High, the same school Catherine did, at around the same time. I put the names in the tree, and I messaged Tina, and I said, there's a couple in Beaumont.

I'm tired. I'm going to bed. And I turned my cell phone off, and I fell asleep on the sofa. And when I woke up the next morning, my phone had just blown up. And it was you on the other end. Yes. What were you saying? This is them. We found them. Just didn't know which one. Okay. It's either Michael Foreman or Clayton Foreman.

What did you do to figure that out? The first name I ran was Clayton. And then when I came across his prior conviction for the sexual assault, the hair on the back of my neck stood up. I'm like, this is our guy. In 1981, a 19-year-old woman told police that Clayton Foreman bound her hands and raped her. She had also gone to Forest Park High School, where Clayton was the manager of the football team. Foreman was convicted but was given probation and paid a fine.

But he did not have to give a DNA sample at that time. This was back in the early 80s. We didn't have sex offender registry, no DNA database. And then they found another connection. It went all the way back to Diana Coe, Catherine's friend from middle school. In high school, Diana fell madly in love. Her boyfriend had graduated three years ahead of her, and they got engaged. He was so kind.

He had the most wonderful personality. And when she started planning her wedding, she immediately turned to her old friends, Katherine and Allison. And they were one of the first ones I thought of as a bridesmaid. And I asked them, and they said yes. And the groom, the man Diana co-married back in 1982? Now he was their number one suspect, Clayton Foreman.

She, in fact, didn't know him. Yes. In hindsight, there were signs. When Diana found out about Clayton's legal troubles, the wedding was less than three months away. And the wedding invitations had already been mailed out. And I said, rape? I said, oh, there's no way. But she never got any details, and her fiancé explained it away.

He kept telling me it was a big misunderstanding. And so in my mind, I thought, well, he must be telling the truth because if he got arrested, he's not in jail. But you didn't really believe it was rape? Right. Diana's sister Ann and her brother Scooter were not so sure. And neither were their parents, who wanted her to call it off. I said, well, Diana...

why don't you just wait?" And she didn't want to wait. She wanted to marry Clay. She was in love with him. She's believing him and she's wanting to get married, then we have to support as a family. He was like, "I'm so, so sorry. I love you. I want us to be married. I want us to have a family." And so I was like, "Okay." You know, so I went through with it.

Diana and Clayton stayed married for a little more than 11 years. They had a son. The relationship began to fray over form and lying about their finances, and it ended after he had an affair. And looking back, Diana can see that he had an unhealthy fascination with police officers and the tools of their trade, like handcuffs. I remember that he had ordered those handcuffs. Well, he had them hung up

over the rearview mirror, and I didn't think anything of it. When Catherine was killed, they were divorced. But Diana remembers calling her ex-husband to talk about it. I think I was, you know, crying, and I said, oh, my God. I said, somebody has murdered Catherine.

And he goes, oh, really? Just like no emotion. When we hung the phone up, I can remember because I was like kind of squinting and kind of like going, that's kind of odd. With all the mounting evidence, Foreman needed to be found. He was 60 and no longer living in Beaumont. They quickly tracked him to Reynoldsburg, Ohio. What was he doing there? He was an Uber driver at the time.

So I was able to send a lead to a field office up there and basically did what we call a trash run. You need to collect a piece of DNA so that you can ensure that it's the right guy. Correct. So that's what they did. They surveilled his house and then went and snatched a bag of trash and sent it to me. So I brought that stuff to Houston to the DPS crime lab. And from there, they tested it.

The likelihood that the DNA belonged to Clayton Foreman was a big number. 461 septillion. It doesn't get better than that, says Cheryl LaPointe. I mean, you can't fight those odds. You cannot fight those odds. And that was all they needed. I got a text from a DPS lab technician and she said, go get his ass.

Aaron Llewellyn and Brandon Best were about to hop a plane to Ohio, ready to face the man they felt sure had killed Catherine. And while they're doing that, Tina pays a visit to Diana Coe. Did they tell you they had DNA, though? Tina told you that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I just went, oh, my God, please don't tell me it was Clay.

I almost fell to the ground. I was just like, oh my God, oh God, I can't believe he's done this. What do you think of sharing your DNA with law enforcement to help solve a murder? Chat now with the 48 Hours team on Facebook and X.

When Texas Ranger Brandon Bess and Detective Aaron Llewellyn arrive at the Franklin County Sheriff's Office to confront Clayton Foreman, they have a cover story. It's about a lost item from one of Foreman's Uber rides. We go in under the under the ruse of someone had left a purse in his car. So he came in voluntarily to talk about a purse that was in the car.

It was April 29th, 2021, 26 years after Catherine Edwards was murdered. And they are sure they are sitting in front of the man who murdered her. And we're asking you to visit with us about a crime that we're investigating, okay? Did he immediately go, uh-oh? No, he didn't. So the crime that we're looking at is the murder of Mary Catherine Edwards. And she was murdered in 1995. Yeah.

I guess he pretty quickly realized he wasn't there to give up a purse. He did. And we found a picture of a wedding picture that she and her sister, Allison, were actually in your wedding. Right. In 1982. Do you ever remember anyone ever coming to you about that crime? Were you aware of the crime even? No.

We backed him into a bunch of hard corners. He claimed that he didn't even know that she was dead. Do you remember them from school? Do you remember the girls from school?

Not really, because they were freshmen. When you were a senior? Yes, sir. Okay. So on Mary Edwards, Mary Crafton Catherine Edwards, didn't know her well? Did you ever visit with her at all? No. Did you ever go in her house at all?

You know, did you know where she lived? No, had no idea. So, and he's denying, denying. He is denying, you know, in these DNA cases, when you, whether you're going to get a confession or not, you want to build up that background of, hey, did you know them? Number one. How did you know him? That's right.

Did you ever go on a date? All the way up to did you ever have sex with this person? Did you go to college together? Did you do all... Everything was a no. And we had those denials several times. And then so towards the end of the interview, we asked them, "Well, if all those things are true, can you explain how your DNA ended up on her and on her bed?"

I think that Foreman knew enough about DNA that he thought he would have been caught already. He knew that he had never submitted his DNA. He had no clue that he was going to be arrested that day.

- Family label with you. Right here and now, and I want you to hear me real close. - All right, sir. - That crime scene was processed really well, and your DNA was on Catherine's bed and was inside Catherine. - Okay. I mean, I don't know how it got there, but Chris A was there. - There's only one way for it to get there. - Okay. - And that's by you putting it there. - Okay. - Do you understand that? Do you understand the implications of that? The day that you died,

The night that she died, your DNA is in her and your DNA is on her bedspread. Now, I don't want you to say anything right this second. I want you to think about the next words that come out of your mouth. I want you to think very hard about that, okay?

There's two people that know that story. You're one of them and she's the other and she can't talk. What I ask you is now to be honest with us completely and tell us how did that happen? I'm not going to say anything. I probably need an attorney now. You probably need one or you do need one.

but if you're saying i did that then i find an attorney to talk to you well that's all we got then we're gonna let you walk out of the door just like we told you it's a grainy video but you can probably see us grinning at each other you have all your stuff that he thinks he's walking out of here he thinks he's fixing to leave here so as he got out down the hallway headed towards the elevator we stopped him and arrested him for the murder of katherine edwards

And after all those years and all that work, Aaron Llewellyn and Brandon Bess had one thing left they needed to do. If you remember back when we were talking about the crime scene, she was handcuffed. So we had talked to the DA's office beforehand and got permission to use those handcuffs. The very handcuffs that bound Katherine the night she died. How did it feel to put those handcuffs on her? Very good. It's a moment I'll never forget. You feel like you got to do something for Katherine.

you know, like physically got to do for her is take those cuffs that bound her when she was murdered and put them back on the guy that murdered her. It's, you know, it may seem small to some, but it was a really big deal to us and it felt good. Even though they had their suspicions about him, the news that Clayton Foreman was arrested for the murder of Catherine Edwards was still a shock for his ex-wife, Diana Coe, and her siblings, Ann and Scooter. And she calls me and she says,

Clay murdered Katherine. And I said, "Do what?" Your brain doesn't-- because it knows him as a person, as somebody that you-- you know, your brother-in-law or your brother. That was-- that was hard. Yeah. I thought of Allison. And I just couldn't believe it. My thought immediately

Went to Allison and I just said, Allison, oh my God, she's going to hate me. The search for truth never ends. Introducing June's Journey, a hidden object mobile game with a captivating story. Connect with friends, explore the roaring 20s, and enjoy thrilling activities and challenges while supporting environmental causes.

After seven years, the adventure continues with our immersive travels feature. Explore distant cultures and engage in exciting experiences. There's always something new to discover. Are you ready? Download June's Journey now on Android or iOS.

Explaining football to the friend who's just there for the nachos? Hard. Tailgating from home like a pro with snacks and drinks everyone will love? An easy win. And with Instacart helping deliver the Snack Time MVPs to your door, you're ready for the game in as fast as 30 minutes. So you never miss a play or lose your seat on the couch or have

to go head-to-head for the last chicken wing. Shop Game Day Faves on Instacart and enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three grocery orders. Offer valid for a limited time. Other fees and terms apply.

Opening arguments began this morning. Foreman is charged with capital murder. Guilty or not guilty. Not guilty. March 12th, 2024. This is not going to be easy for a lot of people because it's been a long time coming. Nearly 30 years after Catherine Edwards was found dead in her townhouse. You got to remember...

This happened in 1995. Beaumont prosecutor Patrick Knaud and his colleagues Mike Laird and Sonny Eckhardt are ready for trial. You're going to get to learn a lot about DNA. And they're extremely confident about their case against Clayton Foreman.

Tom Burbank is defending Foreman. The prosecution calls Catherine's twin sister, Allison. We wanted to remind everyone this is about Catherine and her family. And that's the way we wanted to start off with.

Here at 60, sitting before them was the spitting image of what could have been. That is a picture of my sister, Catherine. Reliving the day she lost Catherine. And then the next thing we know, you know, my mom and dad drove up.

I mean, there were no words. She was dead. That was all that mattered. I didn't know how, what, or anything. I didn't know what happened to her. It was just that she was gone was all I knew. The pain and the loss still so palpable. Four years later, I had a daughter, and her name is Catherine. Catherine, after my sister, she never got to know her. That's the hardest part.

It was a lot. - Helenaya Adams, Katherine Edwards' student when she was seven and now 37, sat in the courtroom nearly every day. - It was times when they would show photos or when they showed the videos of her on the floor. It was as if your heart was breaking all over again.

You measure the proximity of matching DNA. Detective Tina Llewellyn and genealogist Cheryl LaPointe, along with other crime lab technicians, walk the jury through the process of the genealogy and the DNA match. Texas Ranger Bess and Detective Aaron Llewellyn go through the final stages of the investigation, all carefully coordinated to make the chain of evidence airtight.

And on the last day, the prosecution calls all the women who had been scarred by Foreman and were alive to say so. He was your supervisor? That's correct. An old co-worker. Whenever I opened up the drawer, there was a pair of handcuffs. A former fiancé who found pictures of young girls. He said to me...

that he had them so that he could fantasize about taking their virginity. His ex-wife, Diana Coe, who agreed to testify...

Did you think at the time you were in love with the defendant? Yes. When you saw him at trial, how hard was that for you? That was very hard. And it was very embarrassing to me. And I do feel ashamed. And it was during the trial that Diana learned about what really happened to that 19-year-old woman in the months before she and Foreman married. It was the most horrific thing that happened.

I couldn't imagine what she went through and was so brave to get up and say what she said. She was the final witness. Returning to the night her car got stuck and Foreman, falsely claiming he was a policeman, offered to help. First he tied my hands back. He tied your hands behind your back? Yes. Did he threaten to cut your throat if you didn't? Yes.

This whole thing took a while, didn't it? Yes, sir. I'm sorry. What happened then? He took me home. Did he say something that you felt was odd? Yes, he said three things. He said, stop crying. I'm sorry. I hope I didn't hurt you.

And there was another woman who did not testify but went on the record, an alleged victim of Foreman's violence, also a high school friend of Diana, who did not press charges. She told investigators Foreman attacked her from behind and put a gun to her head.

She had indicated back in '85 or '86 that he had come to her apartment and knocked on the door and told her that he was having financial and marital problems with Diana and he needed somebody to talk to, and so she let him in.

Prosecutors suspect Foreman used a similar ruse the night he appeared at Catherine Edwards' door. That's the way we thought he got to Catherine. Because Catherine was very Christian, very given, very naive, and it's a wonderful thing to be, except when you're faced with Clayton Foreman. I've always wondered, did he say something about me? Hey, it's Clay, an

you know, I need to talk to you about something about Diana. It's always, I've always wondered, but I thought I'll never know. After seven days of prosecution testimony, the defense calls no witnesses and attorney Burbank closes. You heard different things in reference to sex things and stuff like that. Okay. Still doesn't make him a murderer. You may not like him because of what people said.

I submit to you that I have not proven murder beyond a reasonable doubt. The prosecution wraps up its case. And it's so easy to believe that evil doesn't exist. It is here in this courtroom here today. These are things I wish I didn't know existed. I'm sorry I had to talk to you about it. But I didn't bring this here. He did. Now it would be up to a jury to decide Clayton Foreman's future. Patrick Knaud wants them to remember Catherine Edwards didn't have one.

and i do pray that mike and i have something done a good job for katherine and you i hope we've done our job

Okay, most Americans think they spend about $62 per month on subscriptions. But get this, the real number is closer to $300. That is literally thousands of dollars a year, half of which you've probably forgotten about. Thankfully, Rocket Money can find a bunch of subscriptions you've forgotten all about and then help you cancel the ones you don't want anymore.

RocketMoney is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. RocketMoney has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's features.

Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash wondery. That's rocketmoney.com slash wondery. rocketmoney.com slash wondery.

Is this story giving you chills? Warm up with a heater from Vornado. Their products are built to last and backed by industry-leading warranties. Vornado stands by their products, and they communicate this to every consumer. Their packages literally use the wording, We expect this product to be perfect.

If not, we'll make it right. And you can be assured their customer service is provided by real people in their Andover, Kansas headquarters. When customers call in or chat on Vornado.com, they can be confident that they'll speak with a real person. For podcast listeners only, save 15% off their entire catalog at Vornado.com with promo code WANDERY15. That's 15% off their entire catalog at Vornado.com with promo code WANDERY15.

Wondery 15. Upgrade your airflow with a Vornado and experience perfect comfort. Is this verdict a unanimous one? Yes, sir. It takes less than an hour for the jury to come back with a verdict. We in the jury find the defendant guilty. Clayton Foreman, guilty and sentenced to life for the murder of Catherine Edwards. It didn't take long because all the evidence was there. Once it got into the DNA, more or less sealed it for him.

Larry Delcambre, juror number two, says he and his fellow jurors had very little to talk about. He had no defense that it wasn't him. There's no denial there. It felt like, hey, this thing does work. For Helenia Adams, finally some justice for a favorite teacher after all. I wanted to close that door finally. She meant so much to me. And when you heard those words, guilty, what was that like for you?

We did it. Was it emotional we did it? This whole case was emotional. For detectives Tina and Aaron Llewellyn, genealogist Cheryl LaPointe, and ranger Brandon Bess, it was the ending they had all worked for. But it left lots of room for reflection. And I think the justice system has worked and he's where he needs to be.

But to say that that's honestly justice for Mary Catherine, it's frustrating to know that he lived a life and she should have been able to live a life and have children and go on. That is frustrating.

I never used the word closure. I never used the word justice. There's no justice. He got to live 26 years. He got to get married. He got to have kids. She did not. There's no justice. I don't believe there is such a thing as closure, not on this earth. Beth always wanted a confession. They all wanted to know why. 70% of the time, you're not going to get that. And 100% of the time, you're not going to get the whole story anyway.

We all wanted those answers, and because he was spineless and didn't talk to us or give us any information, we'll never know the details behind it. And everyone was still reeling, asking themselves how it was that Clayton Foreman walked among them and no one saw his monstrous core all those years, hiding in plain sight. So when we identified him,

I actually have mutual friends with him that were in shock. They could not believe it was him because they knew he was such a nice guy. He had fooled so many people for so long. I personally believe that there are more victims out there. We just haven't found them yet. I find it hard to believe that he has not assaulted other people.

I really feel with all my being, I feel that there are others. And how do you think he was able to conceal this darker side? That's the part I cannot figure. I can't. I don't understand it. I don't know how he could. Like I always say, it's like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

I have my own speculations. I think somebody, I think some people are demon possessed or demon influenced because that's pure evil. There's nothing else you can explain. That's just evil. I was married to a monster is what I was married to and didn't know it. I think if he wouldn't have married me, she'd still be alive.

But in the wake of the trial, it was time to turn away from Foreman and remember Catherine Edwards as she was and in her own words. Wow, I didn't realize the timing on this one. December 11, 1994, she was murdered a month later. I have given my life to God, and I will follow His path for me. That gives me a feeling of great relief and peace.

The human spirit is stronger than anything that can happen to it. The vibrant, beloved schoolteacher in her prime gone far too soon. If you could talk directly with Mary Catherine Edwards, what would you wish to tell her? Oh my gosh. I think I would say I love her. And I'm sorry, I'm so sorry this happened to her.

I was honored to be given the privilege to help give answers. Very honored. Very honored. She was a very special person. She really was. Unfortunately, it introduced me to real loss, to trauma, to fear, to grief, to heartbreak, to all the feelings. A podcast I watched, they would always ask aspiring lawyers, when did you fall in love with law?

And I think that's when I fell in love with law, in the second grade, when Clayton Foreman took my life from me. Helen Aya is a student once again. She's studying for her master's in criminal justice and plans to apply to law school, a tribute to her teacher. Clayton Foreman is eligible for parole in 2061. By then, he will be 101 years old.

If you like this podcast, you can listen ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a quick survey at wondery.com slash survey. From the award-winning masters of audio horror. I see a face right up against the window. Bleach white, no hair, black eyes, a round hole for a mouth.

It's flat, Taylor. It's completely flat. I don't know what that is. I don't know what kind of a head is flat. Comes the return of Dark Sanctum. It's blood. Seven original chilling tales inspired by The Twilight Zone and Tales from the Crypt. Get back in your car. Lizzie, it's okay. I'm here now. Josh, get in your car. Starring Bethany Joy Lenz, Clive Standen, and Michael O'Neill. Welcome to...

to the dark sanctum. Listen to Dark Sanctum Season 2 exclusively on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Did you know that after World War II, the US government quietly brought former Nazi scientists to America in a covert operation to advance military technology? Or that in the 1950s, the US Army conducted a secret experiment by releasing bacteria over San Francisco to test how a biological attack might spread without alerting the public?

These might sound like conspiracy theories, but they're not. They're well-documented government operations that have been hidden away in classified files for decades. I'm Luke LaManna, a Marine Corps recon vet, and I've always had a thing for digging into the unknown. It's what led me to start my new podcast, Redacted Declassified Mysteries. In it, I explore hidden truths and reveal some eye-opening events, like covert experiments and secret operations that those in power tried before.

to keep buried. Follow redacted, declassified mysteries with me, Luke LaManna, on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen ad-free, join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app.