Evening Edition: The Daniel Penny Trial: Self Defense, Crime And Mental Health
14:57 Share

I'm Jimmy Fala. I'm Madison Allworth. I'm Bill Hemmer. And this is the Fox News Rundown. Tuesday, November 12th, 2024. I'm John Saucier. A high-profile trial in New York City is happening right now involving a Marine veteran who was involved in an altercation on the subway with a mentally ill homeless man. Now a jury is hearing witness testimony about the incident and we'll have to weigh out whether the defendant was acting in self-defense or...

if maybe he went too far. They sort of speak from their own experience and they recall times that they've been on the subway and been very scared by behaviors. And then you have other people who feel like, hey, we've also been scared on the subway, but Penny took it too far. This is the Fox News Rundown, evening edition. ♪

from the Fox News Podcast Network. I'm Janice Dean, Fox News Senior Meteorologist. Be sure to subscribe to the Janice Dean Podcast at foxnewspodcast.com or wherever you listen to your podcasts. And don't forget to spread the sunshine.

The New York City subway is certainly not a pleasant experience oftentimes, and one man who decided to stand up for himself and fellow riders is now trying to keep himself out of jail. Daniel Penny, a U.S. Marine Corps veteran, put Jordan Neely, a mentally ill homeless man, in a chokehold on the subway. Neely, unfortunately, did not survive the incident. Now a jury is trying to figure out if this was self-defense or just a case of suicide.

or manslaughter. Things are moving very quickly. It is the 13th day of the trial, the fifth day of witness testimony. Our guest today is Fox News Channel correspondent C.B. Cotton. She's outside the New York State Supreme Court and has been covering this case. We heard from a key witness in this case. One of the men captured on video holding Jordan Neely's arms as Daniel Penny held Neely in

in a chokehold but you know john only time will tell on how this impact the prosecution's case because this man eric gonzalez gonzalez he testified that he initially lied to the d_a_'s office saying he was scared that he too would be charged but today on the stand he said he's telling the truth now that the d_a_'s office agreed not to prosecute him so he said when he got on the train last year

He tried to help Penny restrain Neely so Penny could let up the chokehold. But he said Penny didn't let go and that Neely was trying to escape the entire time. He said eventually Neely's body went limp. So we had his testimony today. But then we also heard from another eyewitness on the stand today. He said he didn't feel threatened by Neely's behavior at all.

And at least two other men last week suggested the same on the stand. So you kind of what we've seen so far in this trial from prosecution witnesses is that everyone sort of has a different takeaway on who was the bigger threat that day. Jordan Neely, who was homeless and battling mental illness, or Daniel Penny. And again, he is the Marine Corps veteran.

Yeah, and it's really wild because going into the trial, I thought to myself, witness testimony is going to be the key either on a guilty or an innocent verdict here. You said there's been kind of mixed

Mixed, I guess, testimony so far. Do you feel it leaning one way or the other as far as how the witnesses felt about the situation? It's definitely been a mixed bag, John, because like I just mentioned, we've heard from a couple men who said they didn't feel threatened. We got another one of those similar testimony today. Another man saying he didn't really feel threatened. Last week, though, several other women testified that they were terrified when Neely got on the train and started making threats.

And these women all said from the stand that they felt relieved when Daniel Penny stepped in. One of the women, she even said she thanked Penny after the ordeal and told Penny she was willing to give a statement to Daniel.

to the police. And the defense appeared to try to capitalize on her testimony during cross-examination by playing for jurors some of her initial statements to police on body camera video. And in some of her statements, I've got my notes right here. I'll pull it up. She said, quote, the guy in the tan, referring to Penny, she said, quote, the guy in the tan did take him down, like very respectfully, just like held him down. So Penny's defense attorneys

have pointed out to the media after court a few times that some of the prosecution's witnesses are actually helping their case. One of the defense attorneys, Thomas Kenneth, he said, essentially, the prosecution is doing it all for us. He said, facts are facts. And now jurors have been able to see that.

how terrified some of these subway riders were. And again, on the contrast, Sean, we've also heard from other subway riders who said they were not scared at all. And at the heart of this case, the prosecution is trying to prove that Neely's outburst on the train last year only lasted about 30 seconds. And the prosecution argues Penny acted recklessly by placing Neely in a chokehold for nearly six minutes. And prosecutors in this case

only have to prove that Penny acted recklessly. Now, the defense actually moved for a mistrial at one point. Can you describe that action? Yeah, so the defense moved for a mistrial after one witness we heard from last week, Johnny Grima. He testified that he's formerly homeless. He got on the stand last week and said that he watched as Daniel Penny let up.

of the chokehold. And he said he was concerned with what he saw. And he said he went to go try to pour water on Neely's head to wake him up. But Penny told him not to. So after he said all that, he

He also made a comparison on the stand. He compared Penny to an abuser. So between that testimony and a testimony of a few other witnesses, young teen girls who have repeatedly referred to Penny as the white man or the white guy, the white dude, between some of this testimony, the defense has argued that there's no way for Daniel Penny to get a fair trial at this point. The judge said,

suggested on the stand that he understood where they were coming from, but he denied that mistrial motion. How has race played into this trial, especially if you have witnesses calling out to the defendant's race here? Do you see that as a big factor in this trial, especially since Penny, the Marine veteran, is white and then Neely is black, the guy who he, you know, choked out?

Yeah, I think this entire case has certainly become a flashpoint for conversations about race, crime, and mental health in this country from the very start of it. I mean, when this case first happened, protests were happening all across the city, but

people were very upset that Daniel Penny was not arrested and held behind bars right after this happened. So race has always been, there's always been sort of a racial overtone to this story. But I think that the census tried to point out repeatedly that their client, they allege that their client is being made out to be a white vigilante. They also point to some of the prosecution's opening statements. One of the assistant district attorneys, she said that

that Penny, she accused Penny of not seeing Neely's humanity. And the defense argued to a judge in their mistrial motion that it was a racially charged opening statement. And so I think between, certainly the defense is trying to make a case that the racial overtones are too much. And they've tried to say, look, this case is not about race, but that's what the prosecution is trying to suggest to jurors.

Day 13 of the Daniel Penny manslaughter trial in New York City with more testimony about the events leading up to the Marine veteran placing a homeless man in a chokehold. Fox News correspondent C.B. Cotton has been closely following this case and joins us today from outside New York State Supreme Court with her notes and thoughts on the trial. We'll have more with C.B. right after these words.

This message comes from Viking, committed to exploring the world in comfort. Journey through the heart of Europe on an elegant Viking longship with thoughtful service, destination-focused dining, and cultural enrichment on board and on shore. And every Viking voyage is all-inclusive with no children and no casinos. Discover more at viking.com.

Now, CB, you mentioned protesters earlier. I think you were talking more about when the grand jury was convened when this case first happened. Are you seeing any sort of protesters outside of the courthouse in the area? Have you talked to anyone either for or against Penny in this? Throughout the trial, what we've noticed is that some days protesters are here. Other days they're not. We did have protesters here this morning. I would say, you know,

They tend to show up every other day of the trial. And they were here again today. What they typically do is they stand outside the courthouse and they chant Subway Strangler as Daniel Penny arrives to the courthouse. So every other day, we've noticed that these protesters are here. Similar chants every time. Subway Strangler. And they also chant Justice for Jordan Neely. And I think...

Depending, whatever the outcome is of this trial, a lot of us think there's a good chance protests will continue.

will happen again here in New York City. Yeah, either way, because there's really a lot of people on either side of this argument. And I think it amplifies kind of a larger feeling in New York City and maybe even the entire country, CB. And you could speak to this about safety, especially in our big cities and here in New York. I mean, for me, I take the subway. It's not a pleasant experience. I don't know what your experience might be with it. But I feel like anyone who's taking the New York City subway has seen consequences.

Call them crazy people or people who are mentally ill, and it's not always the best. But at what point does self-defense not actually become self-defense, if you want to speak to that a little bit? There are definitely two schools of thoughts, two schools of thoughts for this case. And every member of the public seems to have an opinion. You have some people who think, who really believe Penny was justified in

and they sort of speak from their own experience, and they recall times that they've been on the subway and been very scared by behaviors that they've seen up there. And then you have other people who feel like, hey, we've also been scared on the subway, but Penny took it too far. He, you know, he did too much. He shouldn't have stepped in the way he did. Or they feel like

like he should have let up the chokehold sooner. So a lot of conversations are happening right now about self-defense as well. And speaking of that, there's another key witness we have yet to hear from in this trial, and that is Penny's former martial arts instructor in the Marine Corps. So that is another witness that we're still waiting to hear from, who everyone knows is going to have really, really crucial details for this case. And what is the potential punishment if Penny is convicted in this case?

Penny's charged with second-degree manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide. I won't get into too much of the legal detail because it is very esoteric, but essentially on the top charge, second-degree manslaughter, Penny faces up to 15 years in prison. So there are definitely very high stakes.

The Neely family and members of the Neely family, they have talked to the press several times throughout the trial. They feel very confident that Penny is going to be found guilty on at least one of the charges. But...

To contrast with that, Penny's defense team also appears to have a very confident tone about the proceedings thus far, again, with them suggesting that some of the prosecution witnesses are actually helping their case of self-defense. Again, they argue that Penny was acting to protect himself and other subway riders on that train.

Really interesting case here, and we're going to be paying attention to it and see how it comes out as well and tracking the fallout following the verdict, too. Fox News correspondent C.B. Cotton, she's been all over this case, spending every day down at the New York State Supreme Court reporting for us. C.B., thank you so much for your insight and your reporting and for taking some time to be with us on the Fox News Rundown Evening Edition podcast. Thanks, John, for having me. I appreciate it.

it.

Hi, everybody. It's Brian Kilmeade. I want you to join me weekdays at 9 a.m. East as we break down the biggest stories of the day with some of the biggest newsmakers and, of course, what you think. Listen live or get the podcast now at BrianKilmeadeShow.com.