Sè Precavido (Be Cautious) | Chapter 8
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There's a house here in walton county that came up associated with the car tee living there. And i'm not sure how I got the location of the house. I think I came up with this location sump from another case because you'll hear rumblings that was a home vaio, you know, where the drug guys were sitting on a house because they heard IT was a stash house that is fairly common out here. They've not really hit anything big yet.

but they're out here. That investigator, mike rising, after months of us talking, he finally opens up about what is likely the darkest theory yet surrounding .

jin's case about maybe a year ago, our guys rather chasing somebody, or someone called him with a complaint. No is a report of a shooting, a suicide at this house. So the shares office goes out there.

They were there for a party as one guy had walked away from the party there, several buildings there, and had gone out behind the building and shot himself in the head. So IT gets worked well. Then IT starts these names start getting checked.

And like, these guys are with people, okay, like mexican mafia, and in the stories aren't kind of making sense. So there are some suspicion the guy might not have committed suicide, other than by ripping some but the wrong person off and being killed. So this is, this is definitely an organized group out there. But this house comes up in the Justin gain case as far as the owners of the property and that as having been connected with the players and adJusting games cafe.

From wavelan, i'm shanky and this is drowning creek.

The bomb that was dropped on me recently that the mexican cartel could ultimately be involved in, Justin gains his disappearance and death was absolutely mind lowing.

The whole incident, the people that own the property associated with the property may be of the people were present when this kid has found having killed themselves. There are references to them in adJusting gains case as reflected there's not really a connection criminally between the people that own the property and Justin games. It's their children. They're all in their twenties, you in their Younger age, and they're up doing their own thing, their own little criminal acts, which involved .

are trafficking. Surprisingly, this angle of possible cartel involvement on some level brings us back to the tips and confessions made IT pointed to just in being placed in a while involving neighboring barrow county.

This area there, several roads out there. The lots are all five and six acre lots. There are big lots.

And the commonality, the the backs of the lots have a dirt road where they built up in the backs of the lots. Evidentially are where there may been wells in the past, but no one's confirmed IT. If you haven't .

spent much time in the south, that might sound out that all these walls could exist and people don't know exactly where they are or where they were. There were so many farms in homestead, some dating back as far as the late seventeen hundreds. Over time, as people moved around bot and sold land and expansion occurred, many of those wells were abandoned.

There are literally dozens of forgotten walls in the area, but the only way to be found using old archival land maps, or when a land owner stroll through their property and stumbles upon IT. So now, according to mike, we have a potential group of properties allegedly owned by cartel filiation people and whose properties may have old walls on them. We also have some of the same names being mentioned in the alleged car. Tel hit made the look like a suicide, as in, just in case this car tell story of you. It's been there the whole time, right?

Without anyone really .

realizing IT, which is, I think, why that anonymous is so important because that name cho no, as far as you know, is in some way tied to this can tell. And there's been .

no interesting I want to say I thought about IT, but not there has been no focus on those folks, no focus on the biker guys, no focus on the car tail people. It's all been it's it's not the conspiracy like a federal approach to IT. It's focus on the incident.

He's been kidnapped, ed, and killed. That's what their focuses and they go from there out into into an inner circle. And then, okay, IT could be connected with bikers, could be connected, you know, higher up. But the thought process has not thought to do that, as if there weren't .

enough names in this story already. Mike mentioned the bikers, referring to the georgia chapter of the outlaw motorcycle club. The georgia chapter was quartered out of beer, which is not far from lake linear, the outlaws of the oldest motorcycle club in the world. And similar to the holes, Angels, rand, drugs and guns, they were largely broken up in georgia when they were infiltrated by the A, T, F, and twenty twelve, when an undercover agent gained access to the club. How probable do you think that is that that that's all connected to Justin gains being kidnapped, being killed?

I absolutely can see that happen of workers. Es, where there is that far reaching of a decision process can occur. They don't have a big deal about taking somebody out if they thought the in lee Mitchell, I got involved in reviewing that case.

Thirty two year old lee mitchill has been missing since march a 15。 Like Justin gains, he simply vanished one day he was last seen at an auto part store where a witness claimed he looked visibly distressed. As mike rising had reviewed Mitchell's case file, he filled me in on how IT could possibly relate as well to justice.

The only real nexus with us is that he lived here with his x wife and girlfriend in the same house and he had friends here that he dealt drugs with, but its a very similar set of circumstances. He probably sped up his demise because he also collected on drug debt. He was a big guy.

He was known as a bully, and he wouldn't you know, he would use the fact that he was wasn't ably to intimidate and beat people up to collect drug dip. So he was kind of right his own ticket there towards his demise. But the last thought process and when i'm being told the story, i'm i'm listening to IT.

And then when I read through the case, I want to confirming in my own mind what their opinion was, was that he like disappeared for a couple of days and the mexicans felt that maybe he had flipped and that he might be A D. E. A.

informant. And they must take about whether he was or not. I ve asked our drug guys who went on task course, whether not they could confirm, whether not he was working for the dea.

And I was want a big jump for them to get back to me. Now I know as a fed, I would not I would not confirm to a local enforcement agency y that one of my informant was an form. I wouldn't .

confirm that that is that to believe that there is that real possibility .

happens all the time and that could go as to a good reasoning why some of these people that's a pretty good reason for Dylan to let out his line of crap that he laid out to me. It's a good reason for leon. He's just a different mentality.

He's a quieter guy and he's for him taking off. He's basically just not talking to anybody, maybe for the same reason. He's afraid of the uppers. If they're involved in IT, he's afraid that he might come back on him.

There's been a monumental jump from where I started, where I am now. In my thinking on this case, it's gone from a Young man who disappeared from wild bills nightclub that may have been involved in an altercation inside to a motorcycle gang and a possible car tail hit of a drug money old. Those are, in my words, either it's all in the case file.

Honestly, IT feels crazy, even say these things out loud. But sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. To think that mexican cartels are Operating out of small towns and georgia seems almost implausible.

That's a scary thing when you have this big unknown and you hear car tell because everybody, you work closely with these groups. But but the average joe knows what cartels are capable of today. And you hear story. You're real and they're here and .

they're here and they are here.

They're here share of chapman told me the same thing when I discussed this with him .

and people at home, people at, listen, IT is well know that. Don't go on in in mono, georgia curtails. Just last week, we've dusted a trailer park right down here in the city of monroe.

A, T, F, came in. These people are banned fans and ship in them to the car tails in mexico. And then i'm not talking about thirty eight special revolvers and that he had A M two four and and saw that two twenty three squad automatic weapons. What IT is fully automatic brand you in the box and .

we know they head .

two or three of alone was sort of hang guns and and light arms and stuff like right here in mono, George, that was going on on because the cartoons send them the guy with an automatic weapon. He'd been deported four times. I know how the system works.

I didn't know is existed in the city, but I saw this and I opened my eyes. I'm not get into the whole open border war, i'll let mess, but was happening in those border towns and taxes and arizon and all those Prices is affecting everybody in this country. Where do you know or not where apple pad baseball now, you know, USA in this service hit me too. And chapman is right.

IT is hitting us in small town amErica in a nine month long investigation on this exact topic. The career journal reported in twenty twenty that cartels like C, J, N, G, for example, have over five thousand members located everywhere in the world but an article, and have inflated big cities and small towns alike in at least thirty five states, the cartel set up cells and small towns where they Operate, living, working and doing business in the communities. As for the connection to the outlaw motorcycle club, well, there are a few names in that case file that I can share that relate to Justin's case, but one familiar name does pop up according .

rising in pickets house as perd. Shame when you go in there, there's a gigantic it's it's a piece of close, uh, like a sheet that has had a photograph put on IT. You could have that done and it's a moral of like eight or nine atlantic outlaw motorcyle gangs, members and pickets. Picture is in IT, and I think there is some rumor that he may be associated fillide with the outlaw motorcyle again.

Now rising said picked a couple times when referring to andy pickings, he says pickers alleged involvement with the outlaws could tie back to dan in his crew.

You got Dylan and his crew underneath ath, that may be selling dope for these guys. So you kind of got a reason for leon and delay. And i'm not talking a whole lot. They because l say, Carol, these folks who own residences and businesses here, and they are working with the atlantic law motorcycle gang who who have murdered people got in the past.

So according to this information, it's possible that the outlaws were associated with the cartel. Andy pickers was associated with the outlaws, and Dylan and leon were associated with andy pickings, the middle vel dealers known as new york and money or in the mixes. Well, drugs were involved on all levels.

When discussing people like china and his alleged cartel connections. It's interesting that his name was one of the first to be heard in connection to justice disappearance through that anonymous call. Can't discount the importance of this. I've heard that chino, whoever is, was a wild bills the night Justin disappear. I was also told by a competent al inform close to all the players in this game, they just note the wrong people, money for drugs and they offered up that quote, nobody fucked with a car tail. And I said, yeah, I heard that too, geno.

After a long pause, the inform and asked me, who said that name as we discuss a bit more IT was obvious to me that the energy had changed this inform IT was clearly afraid of china and stated to me, word for word, SHE now isn't to be fucked with, or no one will tell the story after that. I want dark. The amount of information, names and dates in this case is mine bogged to save least bob poll.

No alone has over thirty foreign binders full of his own investigative files. Still, I feel like something thing is missing. I want to know how these people all became connected to just in gains, and is IT really possible that there could be involvement, in this case, by the outlaws or even the car? Tell, I know police have this information in their files, but I just feels like such a huge jump to make without any solid or tangible evidence. So let's go back to the beginning, to wild bills in the altercation that gave me my first glimpse of any possible motive for anyone wanting to cause harm to Justin.

Years and years i'm seen in all we know, like I seen them again when his mother, I mention something about again and I said what I thought they would figure this out already, but nothing came up. So I said, man, I got to throw up now this so they can, at least me, know something that can come out of IT. That's delle.

He was at the club that night, and he says he was a witness to the altercation on the dance floor involving Justin. Dell says he and Justin were battle dancing, egging each other on, trying to .

run up each other. He was situation on the floor with a group guess where we looked like he was about to getting the fight with and doesn't like that they are ready to fly.

How many of more guys he was?

At least this is four of us. That was all way in black. We was in the middle of floor, like I can remember.

Where we was because about the sound is where we were actually dances. So they were a little bit off to like my left because I was aim at a stage. Justin was a cross for me, aim in to the stage at diagonal y.

So when he cross from me that when he ran IT to them because he actually put, I mean, he was kind of angle lie I don't know if he was drunk and net, he was, uh, he just fell into them. And you know how some people get when you fall on and they push you everything. So that's what happened. He he fall into them and then they did rush Q Q, jumping in IT when I start IT. So dell tried his best .

to remember anything else he could like what these guys look like. But honestly, it's been sixteen years. All he could come up with was that one guy had waves in his hair, and another war large silver chain run his neck.

IT doesn't have like a medal. I I T around around .

the dell .

said he left the .

club not long after this, although casion before Justin did so. Unfortunately, he didn't see who just been left with. He told me he didn't see a blond girl that matches heath's description hanging around when they were dancing. Dell also mentioned that just in sort of fell into the group of guys on the .

dance floor to me, I, me, he was really wasted, like falling over the time, like his mom. Of course, you know, they they mentioned he wasn't. But I, you know, sometimes you don't want to really tell like that, but I know as he was always falling over anyway, but he was having a he looked like he was having a great time, though hiked the whole time because he was always smiling and he was dealing like that's what surprised me like you just having a good time.

I have to taking off through a lot of information. What i'm going to share with you might at first seem fairly broad or vegan, but it's not. And at the end, I think you'll see how this all comes together and could be connected to just in gains.

There are a lot of names and other pieces of information that I have to keep confidential for now, and to use any interview audio would be very hard to follow and make sense of other bleed dbp names and locations. I'll also reach out the main points of what i've learned so far. Everything i'm going to tell you is in the case file and is not my opinion, though much of IT is theory and speculation based on information that's been obtained over the years.

We know that Justin got into an altercation with several men on the dance floor of wild bills, but a fight didn't break out. One of the men who wear his hair and short reads is thought to be the man referred to as money, a local dealer who ran with new york. Money was added by five different people walking around wild bills.

In the days after Justin's disappearance, he stood out of volunteer searches because he seemed to be very interested in finding out what police knew and where they were looking. Justin left wild bills parking lot around two thirty eight that night. The security guard noticed him and also noticed a black car park along the curb nearby, but his attention was diverted at that moment by two Young irl's fighting.

None of the security cameras caught just in after he acted the front entrance area of the club. Justin was then seen getting into the rear passenger side seat of a black car with several others. We know that because a witness name, James irving, saw and spoke with briefly, irvings stated that Justin didn't appear to really know the people he was in the car with, including the bond girl who we've possibly identified as heather bobo.

Know when can I detective and an FBI age and interviewing in his parents home in january of two thousand eight and got a description of the vehicle IT was a black two thousand six ford or dodge charger with big cho wheels, dark tinted windows in a George tag. The year make and model of the car was identified by irving searching the photo sharing site flickr. As investigators worked to identify the car and its owner, a lead pointed them to a police report filed in early two thousand eight.

The owner of a car matching this description had reported that the vehicle's big grown wheels had been stolen and IT was left sitting on concrete blocks. Though a report was filed, no insurance claim was allegedly ever made on the wheels, which were not cheap, valued over six thousand dollars. The owner was living at or staying at the time at the colonial ga.

Trailer park were dilling in a host of others in the story of lived coincident. And this theft was reported shortly after investigators began questioning people in the trailer park about a car matching the description of this one black charger with big grown wheels. Though the theft was considered suspicious by police, no follow up investigation was ever done despite police learning that the owner of the car was known to be involved in drug and gang activity.

Sometime later, the owner of that car was questioned in a good at canny jail. When he learned that the interview was regarding just in gains, he stood up, said he wanted a lawyer and left the room. I'm also told by a source that he may know china, and i've even heard that china was driving the black car that night of the club, but that is unconfirmed.

I learned recently that dan's mother, tame, stated despite her confession that her son did not personally know Justin gains, a friend of dalens named Christie, made the same statement that strengthens dan's claim of never knowing him. But i've also heard that Dylan, leon and a host of others, including the owner, the black car and even geno, met in the parking lot of a walmart in logan in the georgia early in the evening of november first. And we're using cocaine per witness statements.

Justin gains was there at some point as well. If that's true, that would explain where are Justin went during the four plus hours between leaving his parents house and going to the club, at least in part in tami blues interview with police, he stated that Justin had, quote, come back to her and andy pickings home, alleging that he had been there previously. That night, according to mike rising and bob, no others provided statements that seem to reinforce blues regarding what took place in andy pickens garage in the early morning hours of november.

Second, the sounds of fighting, Justin being choked out, wrapped in pinners tarp, a gunshot van idling outside. We heard that new york was there and giving orders on what to do with Justin's body and that he was taken to the houseboat at like linear. Tammy blue discussed seeing blood on several objects in and around the houseboat in being witness to just being placed in a well.

Now we know the andy pickin's houseboat and van were remodeled and along with shames truck, all went missing shortly after pickers was interviewed at his home by investigators, along with bob pull. No, they said he was extremely nervous, sweating profusely and breathing rapidly. According to bob, pickings denied having any knowledge of, well, anything.

He also denied knowing new york, but when he was told that his phone records have been pulled in, data collected showed calls to and from new york. Pickings eventually admitted that he did know him, and the new york's number was saved in his phone. This interview took place while standing in the garage of andy pick's house, where Justin is said to have been killed.

A search warning still has never been sought. In August of twenty sixteen, andy pickers was interviewed by coronal coral sums of the good at cani police. Recently, I was able to obtain a copy of that interview. I, like every other person who's looked into this case, hold andy pickings might be able to shed some light on what happened to just the first thing I noticed was how sims, who dealing glass is accused of coursing statements from witnesses, repeatedly gives pickings .

and out right from the start. I'm sure you have, like I do, you be in records. okay.

Can you recognize that the other thing I want to make sure on this is that sure we actually come invalid here. You know, if you're not under rest, right, right? You're not under the rest. Get completely, you're pretty get the long way in time you want to if you're going comfortable the way that i'm talking to, please tell me first you're welcome to get away time you want to and you also know that you don't have to talk to me right right?

Pics frail frame sits at a small table across from sims with his arms crossed is bright red orange coloured shirt, compliments is coming back, salt pepper hair and black thick room glasses. Sim goes on to show pick and photographs of several key players in this story, doing you and shame to begin with.

People you are just get.

How about this guy? You really guy, you really. Like well.

You're urging leon leon, your friend, to dance. How about shame? picking.

Stated that he didn't know leon. He knew dulan well and leon hung with deal on often so that's odd. But saying that he didn't know shame was just bizarre. Shame had stayed the night at his house according to shame, tame and doing, but pickin's acted as if he'd never seen him before. He says he'd never seen the person in the first photo is shown and gains.

Before your house.

Pickers does, however, recognize the picture of new york, and at this point, tim starts applying pressure, speaking more quickly, asking the same questions again and again in a different way in an attempt to unsettle pickings .

without new york. I show you video of new york. If you're to hear from new york, you won't hear from me because you don't know me, you don't know, but I will show you video, you don't know.

I just put in new york jail, like I don't have the two, three years, four years. You to be right. He didn't tell me all about different his home and show .

how much different.

Pickings gets visually more and more nervous. They go fighting and screaming in his chair, turns to rubble his eyes and shaking his head back and forth. Sims tells him who is called on this date, or that up to eight years prior. Letting pickings know, theyve looked heavily into his actions since then, lays out the entire theory developed up to that point in detail.

Where do you understand? Do you understand why IT when i'm model concerned about this? Because this bin after that point had never been at sunrise cold until that night.

And there IT shows up. And here's the log that's here, main right there, security log. That man, the united boy good goes missing there. IT is right there into marine filling glass. Tell us that he was beaten up in your garage the chat and put into that and now on the end.

Why I don't 摸 着 出去。

Pickings then gets up and walks out .

of the room.

Sums goes for broke and follows him into the hallway.

If you are, you get so.

Because you're mine. No, no, no and no, you are in. And I tell you what and I really feel for you because i'm going to tell you right now, I know you're going and I know you will go one on and I know you like a couple years ago, and I really want to work with the illness, but obviously on that point is so i'm going working again.

I want to do everything I can do, everything I can do, prove that you have something to do with IT and not less. You have been lucky. 大学 之 师 之 力。

Then the interview with andy pickings is over. Picture passed away from cancer less than two weeks later, ending another chapter in this story and ending any hope of cleaning any more information out of him. So what now? What do you do? You can't get anyone else to speak with you, but you still have questions.

What do you do when every road you travel down, in this case, has been traveled a hundred times before with no luck, no answers, no resolution? You keep trying. That's exactly what i'm going to do.

Drowning creek is an original production of wavelan I rot created the series, and the original score executive producer is Jason hook, associate producers little cope, sound engineering by shame freeman, special thanks to a Wilson and her family. If you have any leads on this case, please can contact me at info at shaan cope dot com, and if you love the series, please leave with you and tell your friends follow wavelan on instagram at wavelan media for more on this series and upcoming new shows, and you can also find me on social media at Shawn cape official or at Shawn cape that com. As always, thanks for listen.