"Trevor Noah"
01:01:12 Share

Well, listen, I'm really thrilled to be here with you two today. I didn't think I was going to make it. Yeah. What happened? JB was, he was close. He almost didn't make it through the weekend. And then the doctor, they decided to revive him with two almonds.

And they come and they go, clear, pop, pop. I was a little lightheaded yesterday. But two nuts in my mouth really, they fix a lot. Brought you to life. I know how you feel. Welcome to Smart Less. Smart Less. Smart Less. Smart Less.

Hey, JB, JB, before Rob, Rob, show yourself again real quick. Just let's see Armjarv. And he said, JB, Rob says to Sean, I've got your favorite sports team on my list. It says spaghetti. It says spaghetti. That's fun. Isn't that fun? It's fun. It's good, clean fun. It is good, clean fun.

So, good morning. Good morning, Jason. First things first. Please, you know I'm obsessed with medical stories. Please tell me what happened to you three, four days ago. Oh, okay.

Well, I'm still in it, unfortunately. You still feel like crap? Well, it's just things are loose, okay? Oh, Jesus. And, you know, I think what it is, God bless my wife. She is more on top of the health stuff than you are even, which I guess is not that high of a bar to leap over considering you mainline meatloaf and everything. Right.

But she gave me this, some sort of supplement for longevity, right? It's like a peptide or something or other. New? Huh? New or been taking it? No, no, no. Yeah, just a couple of weeks ago. And then she had me take even a little bit more last weekend and that's what did it. I'm pretty sure that's it. Well, first of all,

We ruled out immediately food poisoning. Yeah. Right. Because it would have had to have been bad lettuce. Well, because you would have had to eat. Eat, yeah. So that's off the table. I know. I mean, it was like the flu. The flu, like if you'd had like a stomach bug, it would have moved faster.

through you by now. No, it's still, yeah, I'm fatigued and I can't eat and look how puffy my eyes are too. It's like whatever this thing is, I got to stop it, which I'm doing. Yeah, you're okay. Very good. It'd be great if the longevity thing killed you. I mean, I just...

She did say she got a deal on it. A deal. Well, I'm glad you're feeling better than you were before. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I had to cancel a day of work. I haven't done that for a long time. Yeah. But you guys are very, very sweet. You're just, you know, you guys are a couple of the good ones. I don't care what they say. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And you're incredible at reading ads. Didn't you guys just win an award for your ad reading? Did you guys? I think we all did. Right? Well, wait, am I a part of it? Yeah. You want to get to our host? Yeah. Okay, great. So, you know, this guy is a media titan.

He's incredibly smart, incredibly funny. He is responsible for one of my favorite shows. I was very sort of, not nervous, but this show has gone through a couple of hosts and I was hoping that it would land on somebody else.

even better and they have um and uh he's got multiple irons on the fire this guy's just he's um cycle high i think is what is what they say you know he's doing tons of stuff and it's all fantastic i'm gonna let him tell you about it but i'm very very excited he said yes to doing this today any guesses i can't i have no idea he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he started in stand-up um

An additional hint. He hosted a political comedy show on Comedy Central. First name starts with T. Last name starts with N. Trevor Noah. Everybody, it's Trevor Noah. It's Trevor Noah. It's Trevor Noah. It's Trevor Noah.

I mean, what's going on, everybody? Hey, everybody. From the original, from your original sort of lead in, I thought, or set up, I thought it was like, this is like a newscaster. We got like Walter Cronkite. I was confused for a moment. I genuinely thought it was someone else. Yeah, usually I write these things, but this fricking job I've got in New York, it's really cutting into my prep time. So this interview is going to be even worse than the normal ones. Yeah, I was thrown, but then you said the name, then I was like, okay, we're good.

You were like, oh, it's me. It's still me. I mean, let's start right there. I mean, did you feel the pressure I felt when you were going in there to take over this incredible show? I mean, so here's the thing. When I was going in to take over The Daily Show, I don't think I felt...

I don't think I felt the amount of pressure that I should have felt. Because I didn't grow up with The Daily Show. And I met Jon Stewart just as a, you know, sort of a stand-up comedian meeting another stand-up comedian. And I mean, we still talk about that now. You know, now that Jon has gone back to hosting the show...

We'll still share the stories of how ironically the other day we were on the phone and I was saying to him, it's funny that we've gone full circle. When we first spoke, it was on the phone and I was traveling through like Dubai and England doing comedy shows. And then now when we spoke and he's host again, I'm traveling and I was literally in Dubai calling him, having another conversation. It's literally gone full circle. But I wasn't nervous at all.

And then I think after the first few episodes, then the nerves kicked in, which is strange. Normally it's the other way around. Because now you've got a better idea for what it is than you did then. Oh, yeah, definitely. And a better idea of how people reacted to it. I think that was the biggest thing. Because it's so important. It's like this great, it's sort of this,

this Trojan horse that's on a network, you know, like it's helping all the medicine go down a little bit easier, the medicine that's so vital for all of us to be taking in. Definitely. What joke really kills in Dubai? Huh, that's an interesting one. And then tell us what joke you can't tell in Dubai. So what joke really kills in Dubai? So whenever I travel, you know, for my shows,

It makes it a lot harder, but what I love to do is find comedy that I could only do in that region. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I always try and find something, you know, whether it's an observation, whether it's an experience, but just something that you could only say in Dubai and then someone who's not living there would go, wait, what does that mean? So I'll try to tell a few jokes that have like an Arabic punchline or, you know. Sure.

I'll play with something in that world. I mean, isn't Dubai like that super rich? Aren't they incredibly? Isn't everybody incredibly wealthy? Let's go for the definition of it. Go ahead, Sean. Try to be less articulate. Go ahead. Have you ever been outside the United States? Of course. I know Dubai. Sure. What kind of jokes do you tell about Dubai?

Isn't like every single human being there super wealthy? Yeah, well, I mean, the Emiratis are pretty wealthy. But then...

Most of the audience is expats. I think it's like 90%. It's one of the most diverse audiences you'll perform for. Oh, that's so great. I love that. Did you ever get up there when you were coming up in South Africa? Did you ever get up there and were any of your dates up in that area? Oh, yeah. When I had to take over The Daily Show, I had to let go of a bunch of dates that were happening around the world. So I just got a foothold into touring then.

All over the you know all over the planets. I've had to do that a lot like go of a lot of dates all over the I want to know is you know when you first came on the scene under sky blue Sorry was that not it yeah? That's because it's a reflection of the ocean continuing so

So, Trevor, when you first came on The Daily Show, that was my first discovery of you. I was like, oh, what a glorious, wonderful discovery of this man. Oh, thank you. But before that, bad on me, I didn't quite know where you came from. Oh, no, nor should you know, yeah. So what was life before that and what led you to getting that job? It's funny. You know, I'm never offended by that. I don't know. Some people apologize for that sometimes.

Again, I find it's quite common for people to say that in America. They'll say, I'm sorry, I didn't know you. It's a strange thing. Because it's such a massive platform. We feel badly that we didn't follow your career before you got the big thing. Yeah, but surely you don't know somebody before you know them. That's how knowing people works. I'm always intrigued by that. I'm writing that down. But now you can't walk down the street, I'm sure. Yeah.

That's how knowing someone works. Do you think Einstein apologized to physics before he learned it? Yeah, right. Right. But you were crushing it in stand-up such that you met with John, yes? Yeah, so it was really random. I was...

So I started comedy in South Africa, performed there my whole life. I was lucky enough that we... What part of South Africa were you... So I was born in Johannesburg, raised in Soweto and Johannesburg. And then that's where I did most of my comedy. We didn't have a comedy club. So just to give you a bit of a backstory, I'm assuming you know, but if you don't, so during apartheid, free speech was illegal in South Africa.

And so you weren't allowed to gather, a group of black people weren't allowed to be in one space and there were all these laws. So stand-up comedy, obviously, is one of the first things that's outlawed in any place that restricts speech. Wow. So we didn't even have comedy clubs. We didn't have anything. And then once democracy started in 1994,

all of a sudden there was a, just like a boon of new, you know, a boon of people being like, can we sit together? Can we laugh together? Can we? God, that must have been exciting. And comedy blew up

in the most informal places. You know, comedy was this huge explosion. And you were how old at that time? No, so I only got into comedy, in 94, I'm six years old. I only got into comedy when I was 20, I want to say 21. Okay. And it was still new. Like the,

you couldn't make a living from comedy, which I loved about it. It really was something that everyone was doing. It wasn't like in the U.S. where people would do comedy so they could get a sitcom, so they could become a movie star. No, there it was, you do comedy because you like comedy. There is no path. And also escape the horror of their upbringing. Oh, yeah. I think that's what all comedy is, even in the U.S., to be honest with you. Yeah. I think everyone's doing comedy to escape their horrible upbringing. Yeah.

But you actually wrote a book about it too, right? Yeah, yeah, I did. Which became a, what did it sell, like 3 million copies?

I don't know. I don't like numbers, to be honest with you. Well, it did very well. No, no, no. I mean this honestly. You know why. I don't like numbers when they're good and I don't like them when they're bad. Right. You and me both. Why don't you like them when they're good? Because if you live by the good numbers, then you must die by the bad numbers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I think if you're creating, you should just create and then stack. I'm so with you that you're not at the effect of outside circumstances.

So, Trevor, walk me through. So you come up in a place that is almost, you know, that has just a very new comedy scene, if you will. Yeah, yeah. And now you go, you start touring, you do lots of great stuff, then you take over The Daily Show and you just absolutely explode into the comedy world.

When you go back to South Africa, are you... Is it safe to say that you're kind of like the first big South African comedy star? Oh, yeah. Is there a lot of pressure associated with that? You know what? Not pressure. Not pressure. We... It's...

It's so much fun, man. It's hard to explain. So the difference between the two places I find in America, fame is almost like royalty. Right. That's why people apologize if they may be unaware of if you had some beforehand. I was not aware that you were of your kind. I apologize. My liege. Silence, knave.

Were they... In South Africa, it's just like people know you. Everyone just treats you like you're part of a big family. That's how it feels. And was it equally welcoming when you came back and you were now famous? Or were they like...

Oh, were they sort of circumspect and like, let's see if he changed? I was pretty well known before I left South Africa. So it was just like, oh, congratulations, you've gone and put us on the world stage doing something. That's great. So tell me about, I imagine when you were doing a bunch of touring, you got used to life on the road and all the bumps and bruises that go along with it. And then you got this incredibly prestigious job and I

I'm sure we're making a whole hell of a lot more money than you were before and getting used to thread count, nice candles and soaps and the lot. Thread count. How has it changed you and made you more soft now and it's tougher going back out on the road? I'm sure, you know, I know you're playing arenas and stadiums and stuff, but...

Ken, is the old Trevor still alive? It's funny. My life went the other way around. When I first started The Daily Show, I was actually earning less than I was doing stand-up around the world. I was working hard and I was doing pretty well.

So it was really taking the job because of the challenge and the opportunity. As for the thread count, I think my life became a little bit worse because now I was in New York in the winters, walking down the street in like a mini blizzard, walking down like 11th Avenue. I don't know if you've been to the Daily Show studios in New York. It is one of the worst parts

of New York. Yeah. Like in one of the worst parts ever. And it's not that it's not like worst part just to clarify for the listener in that it's dangerous. It's just more that it's shitty. Oh yeah. It's really shitty. Dangerous would be better because then it means people are there to do something to you. Yes.

Exactly. It's like a barren wasteland of nothingness. It is such a fucking nothing area. Yeah, it's just a pocket of nothing. So tell us about the meeting with John and how that whole sort of idea sparked in John and how he approached you and what that conversation was like. So I got a call from...

I was... You know, it's one of those moments where you remember exactly what was happening, but not because of how momentous it was in that moment, rather because of how random the thing is that I was doing. I was in London. I was doing my first tour of the UK, and...

On this particular day, I was standing in Harrods, the mega department store that sells everything. And when I say everything, I mean everything. You all probably know it. And I couldn't afford anything in Harrods. Maybe like, you know, maybe some of the croissants. I don't know. And I was standing in front of an underwater moped.

Like an underwater scooter thing, like you ride it like a motorbike but underwater. I have one. Don't bore Will, he's got one for him and all four boys. Wait, an underwater moped, okay. Yeah, you see, this is what my brain was doing. At that exact moment, my brain was doing the same thing. I was just standing there staring at it going...

what is this, why is this, and why don't I try and get one? And the price was ridiculous. And you had to hold your breath while you ride the bike? No, it has a little bubble, you know, like those old sky, what do you call it, like the diving before they had the tanks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just put a bubble over your head. It has that. It has a bubble. And then my phone rang, and it was some long number. I had no clue what, and I answered the phone because I don't owe anybody money, and...

And the voice on the other end was like, hey, is this Trevor? And I was like, yeah. And he's like, hey, this is Jon Stewart. I was like, okay. And he's like, Jon Stewart, I'm a comedian from America. I was like, oh, okay. And he's like, you've never heard of me. It's fine. Well, I've seen some of your stuff online. And you were like, sir, I don't know you. And...

And, uh, and he said to me, yeah, I saw some of your stuff on, on YouTube and I want to know if you want to, would you ever consider coming and doing stuff in the US? And I was like, yeah, not really, maybe, I don't know. And he's like, well, I work on a show called The Daily Show and I was like, oh, I think I've, I think I've heard of that because I had, I'd seen it on CNN International because we didn't have it on other channels in the world. Yeah. Um,

And I was like, oh, yeah, I've heard of it. And he's like, oh, as you should have, young man. He's very funny. You know John. Yeah, I love John. Yeah, and then he invited me. He's like, come and hang out. I think you're funny and I like the way you see the world. Come and hang out with me when you get a chance. And so at first I said no.

I was like, "I've got the tour." And he's like, he said, "Are you saying no?" What did he say? He said, "Are you saying no to the trappings of American fame and popularity? Who are you, young man?" And I said, "No, I've got a tour. I'll see you when I see you." And he said, "Well, if you're in New York, look me up." And I said, "Definitely. Thanks for the call. It's nice to hear from you."

And then I went to New York, I think six months or eight months later, he called me again. He's like, "I hear you're in town, but you didn't look me up." And I was like, "Oh, Jesus, this guy's relentless." So you hadn't told your agent about this phone call who would have probably slapped you? No, I think they gave him my number because they were like, "It's Jon Stewart." What if you'd hung up the phone with Jon Stewart and then the woman at the desk at Harrods said, "Sir, your underwater moped has been paid for by Mr. Stewart."

You're like, fuck, I got to go do this. This guy's a baller. Yeah, I got to go. Then you say yes immediately, right? Yeah, of course. Yeah, then it's like a full on. So he tracks you down eight months later in New York. Yeah, and then. He says, come have coffee. He said, come to the show and hang out. Yeah. Just hang out. And that's all I did. I went there. We hung out. I remember them talking about like John Boehner or something. And then I was like, what is this world? What is going on here? Right.

So you had no idea about the political landscape in America. I knew the larger, the larger, you know, in the rest of the world, we keep up with American politics, you know,

you know, on a big scale. But the finer minutiae, you know, of filibustering and-- -Yeah. -No, no. Sorry to interrupt again, but the John Boehner story, was it about him crying in some kind of like hungover with like red wine on his teeth? Yeah, I think it was there. It was around that point. Yeah, okay. So you didn't really learn all the specific small-time Cretans that populate the house? -No, no. -Yeah. -No, I did not. -Gotcha.

We'll be right back. All right, back to the show. What year did you come to the U.S.? I think this was 2015. Okay. So 2015, and then you're doing a comedy tour. Jon Stewart's hassling you. And at the time, what kind of comedy stuff were you into? Like, you're...

So, you know, this is actually interesting. I remember somebody asked me, they said to me, when the Daily Show happened, they said, so are you going to, they said, are you a political comedian? You know, the Daily Show is very political. And I said, oh, no, no, no, I'm not. I genuinely was like, I'm not a political comedian. I don't even, I don't think of myself that way. When I spent a little time in the US, I came to realize that what I thought of as non-political humor would be considered humor.

ultra-political humor in America. Right. Because here the average person doesn't, I think it's changed since Trump, but back when I first got to the US, most people didn't engage in politics. You know, everyone, people would literally say like, oh, I don't follow politics. I don't get involved. I don't follow politics. Right, right. Um...

Yeah, whereas in South Africa, what we consider a basic level of commenting or being involved in the system, we don't think that's political. For us, political is marching in the streets, freeing people from prison, like protesting the system. That's being political. Because in most parts of the world, just being engaged is sort of your civic duty. That's the baseline. No matter where you're in South Africa or Dubai, isn't it full of rich people or something? Anyway. That's the spot.

But I'm so fascinated that John and the rest of the brain trust over there thought that you would be a great choice to take over a show that is a mix between comedy and politics so it necessitates a full understanding of the comedy world, a full understanding of the political world such that you can blend the two together, find the nuance, find the irony, and wrap it all up in a bunch of jokes for half an hour or more.

Right. Like, talk to me about how did they explain to you what their expectations were and how you needn't worry about not even being from here and haven't lived here in a long time? And how did that go? Well, initially, it was...

I always describe the story as feeling a lot like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. In that I popped in, I had a great time with John. And I said to him, I was like, I like what you guys are doing, I guess, but this is not for me. And then we laughed about, we would just, man, because John and I just, we get along. You know, there's comedians where you click with them and your rhythm and your vibe is almost completely simpatico. You're just in it.

I'd like to find the person that doesn't get along with Jon Stewart, though. I mean, he's like an all-time great guy. But the comedy is like, you know, when it comes to comedy, I find there's a, it's like music. All musicians can play together, but some musicians can create magic together. And when you find comedians that you share that with, it's pretty special. Yeah, well, there's beats and rhythm. Go ahead.

As you can see, I'm still looking. We've got him on a separate volume control. I'm still on Trevor. Don't worry. Sean, real quick, Sean. Sean, real quick. Any follow-up questions about the chocolate factory? It's not a real place. But if you have anything that you'd like to... Isn't that full of people who like chocolate?

I have a thousand questions about the chocolate factory. Oh, my God. Last night, I made an ice cream sundae, and I didn't have any whipped cream, so I made whipped cream. Oh, great. Oh, my God. Are you writing a screenplay about it now? Hey, Trevor, would you venture to say that actually coming here, kind of a follow-up to what Jay was saying, that basically,

Being an outsider gave you your perspective almost a bit of an advantage, I would suggest, because you don't have American politics or what we've sort of takes for granted as to how the system works and what the dynamics are between the different...

the left and the right, if you will, just to make it as basic as possible because you come in with a different perspective. And you just take it as face value. Like, oh, this is a clown show. Yeah. You know, as opposed to being somewhat padded with,

understanding the whole political system and that it's kind of a joke anyway. So I think it was a massive disadvantage and an advantage. The disadvantage is people don't like anyone who doesn't look like them or sound like them coming to tell them anything about them. So I spent weeks getting random death threats and letters. People hated how I said controversy.

And then it was, you know, controversy. Yeah, controversy. But did you really get death threats, Trevor? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, I mean, that's quite, it's like, it's powerful, the course I've learned. As soon as you comment on American politics,

in a public forum, that's pretty much what happens to you. So that was a disadvantage. Here's something I don't get about the whole phoning in or emailing in a threat, a bomb threat or a death threat. Like, aren't those the exact kind of threats you don't need to really worry about because who the hell would warn you before they play? Like, I don't... I'm certainly not belittling it whatsoever, but I'm always like...

I can't believe that someone will clear out an entire office building if they get a bomb threat. It's like, well, if they want to put a bomb in there, they're probably just going to do it and not tell you about it. The irony that you look so much like Ted Kaczynski right now while you're saying this.

is fucking killing me. No, I just, you know, I get that they've got to empty the building for insurance reasons because there's going to be a record that they received the threat, but... So to that, did you ever feel genuinely threatened in a way that was not just a sort of a...

A random trigger. Sure, of course. I don't know. I mean, it's... It's scary. Yeah. There's a latent level of anxiety that comes with anybody threatening you. Yeah. And again, I need to...

I need to state, I don't think it's that uncommon. I'm pretty certain all the other late night hosts have gotten death threats. It's just, it varies. Kimmel gets one a day, I think. I've threatened Kimmel twice this week already. Yeah, yeah.

On the beginning of Will and Grace, we used to get death threats all the time. Ah, there you see. In 1998. So back then, was that like people sending... Just for shitty jokes or... Yeah, people...

You know, we have fun, Trevor. We do. We just have fun. No, that was because... Wait, what was the question? What were the threats about it? Will and Grace. Oh, no, yeah, they were written on... Yeah, people took the time to sit down. There's one... This wasn't a death threat, but one of the greatest letters we ever got was this woman wrote in to Will and Grace. Took the time, got a pen, paper, wrote it, got a stamp, mailed it. Like, remember this before the internet and everything. There's a lot of effort to really...

share with somebody how much you hate them. But this one woman wrote in and she said, "You know, we're all going to hell.

You should be ashamed for putting this on television. You are all horrible people. But I love the show. I just don't like what it's about. Oh, wow. And could you send me an 8x10? Yeah. Can I get some tickets for the April 12th show? That's the craziest thing. That's so fucking crazy. I guess it stands to reason that you would get threats. I mean, do you get threats immediately upon doing it? I guess I'm sure that a lot of the threats were...

we can all take our pick what they could be about. You're a lefty, right? You're a liberal. Well, and also you're in, I mean, 2015, I mean, the kerosene had been put on the dumpster and it was about to burst into flames. That's exactly it. 12 months later. It was the beginning of Donald Trump and everything that America now lives in as a normal state.

Yeah. Man. So that was the majority of your material. Yeah. And so they're going after the person that's... I mean, think about that. So you're right. You started... You came to America, as Jay says, right at the beginning of the... They were just putting the kerosene, the kindling on the dumpster fire that we all now live in. Yeah.

That's been your experience of America. Let me just say, we've had some good times here, dude. Yeah. I'm now amended with it. If I get the time machine, what I'm doing is I'm grabbing Trevor and I'm taking him back to like the mid-90s into the mid-2000s because we had some...

We had a lot of fun. It looked like a lot of fun. It really was. I don't want you to get the wrong impression. Happy days are here again soon. I promise. It's also wild that people, instead of just not watching you,

or listening to this or watching that or whatever, they take the time to watch it and then comment on it instead of just turn the channel. Yeah, but you know, at the time, it was so hard launching The Daily Show that I actually preferred having those people than not.

I was like, okay, we have these people. You've got an enemy. Right. No, not even an enemy. I was just like, we have viewers. I was like, these people are passionately watching the show. Right. And we need every single person to watch. So there was actually one guy I reached out to. There was a guy who was tweeting vitriol at me on, you know, just on the daily. He was like, you know, you're a piece of trash and you'll never make it. And if I ever meet you in the streets. And I DM'd this guy and I said to him, hey man, I,

I just really want to understand. Why do you hate me so much? I've never met you. I've never said anything about you or your life. I'm just trying to understand this. And I've never seen a faster switch of tone. He immediately was like, oh, hey, dude. Oh, it's not personal. And I have nothing against you. I just thought it was funny to pile on. And he said, in all honesty, I have nothing against you. I actually think you're quite funny, but I don't think you're going to succeed. I think the show will fail. Wonderful. And you're going to crash and burn. Wonderful. And then I said to him, okay, let's make a deal.

if I'm still on the air in six months, you'll stay on as a lifelong viewer. And then if I'm gone, I will retweet your tweet and I'll say you were right. And he was like, oh, deal. And then he was like, good luck, man. I'm wishing you the best. And then six months later, I DM'd him again. I was like, yo, are you still watching? And he's like, oh, the show's gotten so great. So

And you know what he made me realize? That's crazy. No, but you know what he made me realize? I'm honestly eternally grateful to him because he made me realize that most of, not all of, but most of the...

just most of the poisonous infighting that you have in america is due to the fact that most people are speaking past each other not to each other and with each other 100 like people don't actually engage people don't see each other as human beings it's all a theoretical exercise but you'll be surprised to find that most people when you sit down with them and actually if you're forced to have a type like a conversation where you connect

people start to see each other as humans that exist beyond their political affiliation. A lot of assumptions going on too. Always assuming... And it's just a game. It's like sports fans. I think American politics has become like sports where you say everything to the opposing fans

But you don't mean it, mean it, but you go like, this is the purpose of what we're doing. We're here to tell them that they need to die and we want to kill their players. And we hate everything they do. And the ref is biased when he rules in their favor. But when you meet in a grocery store, then they're humans because they're doing the same thing. They were basically exaggerating to make a point, you know. But yeah, when you get face to face with it, they get a little bit more real. Yeah, I mean, I hate...

Manchester City as a football club. Wait, what? Yeah, I hate Man City. Uh-oh. Trevor signing off. But then I also love Pep Guardiola and I love Haaland and I love Kevin De Bruyne. I've never met anybody who has a... Because I'm a Liverpool supporter, a massive Liverpool supporter. I'm a Liverpool supporter, but I don't hate Manchester City. Well, just because they're going to beat us, though.

Oh, yeah, but I mean, they've spent the money and it's like, I get annoyed, but I... You see, it's funny, that's where, like, for me, the rivalries are more games that I'll think of, but Manchester City, I find... Look, my point was, I say I hate them, but then I like all the players on the team. I like Pep Guardiola, I like Haaland, I like De Bruyne, I like Phil Foden, I like all their players, so I don't really hate them.

but I have to because they're... I do hate the Boston Bruins. That's a hockey team. That I do. I do hate the Boston Bruins. Fucking send me your letters. I don't give a shit. Fuck you. I fucking hate it more than you fucking...

Like, hate me. Trevor, now, have you since now become... Is following politics a hobby for you now? Do you enjoy it? Now that you're out of there, do you? Yeah, you don't need to be in the swamp anymore. So...

I don't follow politics as a hobby. What I try to do is understand which conversations can exist beyond the noise. You know, I often try and explain to people when I'm having conversations with them is, so the most interesting thing about the US system for me is the fact that it leads people to believe that there are only two ways to do something. Mm.

You know, it's Republican and it's Democrat. And I've never understood that framing, to be honest with you. I've never even understood how newspapers will report. And these are like distinguished newspapers. They'll write a story that leads with Democrats win with, and it's a law that's changed. But I go, no, that should just be the law has changed and that should be how you report it. Yeah.

It shouldn't be that it's a win for somebody or a loss for somebody else. It's a lot of the media. It's a lot of the media, how they frame everything. So I follow it now to try and understand...

where the issue lies and the politics ends. Because issues are real. Politics are how we try and solve the issues. But politics is not real. It's not actually a real thing. But Trevor, and I'm not being coy here at all. Maybe this is, I think you've probably noticed in this country, certainly, that there's not a lot of appreciation in any aspect of life for nuance in this country.

You're either on this team or that team. Yeah, and it's very binary. And it's always a sort of a zero-sum game. That is part of the American experience. You win, you lose. There's no nuance. That is true. That is true. I will say, you know, if you want to liken it back to sports, I always say to my American friends, I go...

I see why soccer was never the most popular game and might never be. It's because in soccer, we have a draw. We sometimes say, you know what? Neither team won, neither team lost. This was a great game. Everybody go home. It's winners and losers. And so if politics is also about winners and losers...

then nobody wants to concede because it automatically means that they've lost. Right. Which isn't a good way to have politics. As opposed to compromise. Yeah. Politics should never be about winning or losing. It should be about compromising and then, you know, understanding that the majority... It's even strange. Do you ever think about it? When you look at America's results, I'm always shocked at how states are called blue or red. And then you look at the number and it's like 51%.

And people confidently say, well, that's a red state. And I go like, but it's 49% blue. Right. Or vice versa. Everything's half and half, yeah. Right. Everything's right in the middle, yeah. Well, if you think, and this is true, I think, for politics in general, and so I don't mean to come off as completely naive, but the idea that the actual politics are more important than the policy is absurd, right? All of the politics is supposed to be a mechanism by which we sort of

that sort of drives policy, right? And that should be what people are concerned about, what the actual issues are. And they're not. They're much more invested in the game of it. And as you said, the win or lose of the game. Yeah, but a lot of that I will blame, you know, to what you said, Sean, is like, I think...

the media has to take a lot of blame for that because the media has enjoyed turning it into a game and the media has enjoyed turning it into a spectacle. And so if they reinforce that narrative, then I find lawmakers... You know, one of the most interesting experiences I had when I first came to America was

I went to New Hampshire for the primaries. And this is literally, I've been in America for barely a year. Now I'm in New Hampshire, you know, and Vermont and all of these places. And I will never forget seeing, there were two politicians who were, you know, on the stump and they were giving their speeches and it was vitriolic. And they were, you know, this person is going to destroy the country. They're going to do this, they...

And then in the evening, I saw them at a diner and the two of them were sitting together laughing and they were like, how's your family? How's everything going? Since I was a kid, I don't understand that. In many ways, it's almost like wrestling. It's like American politics. You see these people in the ring and it's like...

"Triple H, I'm gonna rip you limb from limb." And as a fan, you're like, "Yeah, kill him, kill him." And then only to find out that like your favorite wrestler who hates the other wrestler in your mind is actually great friends and is the godfather to their child. I think American politicians don't do a, they don't do the country a service. They do it a disservice.

by not showing everybody that they do get along, that they go out together, that they have meals, that they're friends, they're at each other's weddings. Also, I think language is important too. Like when, you know, whatever president, Republican or Democrat, says...

who's ever in office, they say, "Well, the Democrats thought blah, blah, blah," or, "The Republicans thought blah, blah, blah." And it's like, you have to say the Republicans in Congress feel this way, or the Democrats in Congress. Because what happens is it generalizes everybody. "Well, I'm a Democrat. Well, I'm a Republican." You know, now you're telling me that we all think that way? No, it's just the lawmakers think that way. You know what I mean? -That's a good point. -And also think about the idea that, look, it's the spring of an election year.

Of course, and again, at risk of sounding completely naive, of course they have to pit them against each other because they need to drive ratings because we know that all of it is driven by commerce. Everything in this country is driven by commerce. And so if there's no race, if there's no... They have to say so-and-so is leading by this. If the election were today, these are the weak spots. He's ahead. She's ahead. He's going to crush. He's not going to crush. Right.

they have to keep us in the game. Yeah, they just have to be more discerning. Yeah, because they need us to watch the commercials in between. So if you really want to get mad at it, get mad at CNN and MSNBC and Fox and all of them because they're just, all they're doing is in service of commerce.

Yeah, it's completely in service of... If I break it down into three levels, I'd go, you know, on the media side, I wish they would stop turning it into the spectacle that they do, but they probably won't, as you say, because the money is there. Or that's what they want to get, you know, once you can make a profit, it changed everything. Sports get the best ratings in this country, so if they can turn it into a football game, they'll do it. Yeah, but on the ground as well, I think as people...

That's something that I found strange coming to America, is how people would say, "I am a Democrat. I am a Republican." And I'd be like, "What? What does that mean?" Where I come from, people just talk about how they voted, but they are not the thing. And I think if you take yourself away from being the thing, you allow yourself the opportunity to either be disappointed by the thing or step away from the thing when it is necessary.

You know, because it shouldn't be a sport. You shouldn't be, I am a Liverpool supporter is correct. We will go up and down with Liverpool. Yeah. Whereas in politics, you just say, I voted for this and then I voted against it. And it's like, I'm not that thing. Well, imagine if you imagine we lived in a world where you can just all you did was you weren't voting. There were there was no such thing as a party and you just voted on issues. Yeah. Right. We'll be right back. And now back to the show.

Noah, so what about hosting? Like, do you still want to keep hosting? Is it something like you're like, I did it. I'm moving on to something else. Oh, no.

Or like, would you, like, do you have aspirations to host the Oscars, the Emmy, like award shows or anything? Well, you've done the, yeah, the Grammys. How many years now? Yes. Oh, that's right. I forgot. MTV and... The Grammys has been fun. I've done the Grammys a few times now. Now, were you a huge music fan before that? Have you, as your... You mean, was I human before?

That's a strange question. Who doesn't like music, Jason? No, but I mean, some people are obsessed with it. Jason doesn't know what humans do, dude. Well, maybe a better question would be, has your passion for music increased since you've been behind the curtain? By the way, I apologize. Of course I've watched it on the Grammys. I completely forgot.

No, no, no, no. You know what? You can establish your name earlier in the podcast. No, no, no, no. Don't do that to Sean, guys. Don't do that. I know what he means. And I'll tell you why, Sean. It's funny. I don't think the Grammys is the same as like the Emmys or the Oscars or any of those shows because... Well, I'm an actor, so I'm like, I watch those more. Yeah, but also the Grammys is like a... The Grammys is like hosting a concert, right?

You know, the Emmys and the Oscars and, you know, all these other awards, they do feel like an award show. The Grammys just feels to me like a concert. Performance, yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's great. I've definitely developed a greater appreciation for artists, seeing them rehearse, seeing how hard it is to get everything right, seeing them do it live. That's what's definitely increased. And then also my palettes. Like every time I'm at the Grammys, I discover a new artist that I now become a fan of.

What about a full genre? Yeah, definitely. Like country. Are you a fan of country now? I listen to way more country now than I ever did before.

You know what I mean? Everybody, like the Lou Combs, you name it. I just got into it because you would hear the song so many times in rehearsal and you'd see how amazing it could be. And then you fall in love with it. That Tracy Chapman performance. Oh my God, I cried my eyes out. I know. Incredible. I'm not a huge... A lot of the music at the Grammys is not really my taste.

generally. What do you mean? It's all kinds of music on the Grammys. No, but I'm such a, like, 90s indie rock fan. Oh, right. So they would have awarded your bands years ago. Yeah, if it was, like, Built to Spill and Dinosaur Jr. and the Pixies, I would have been like, ah, great. Right.

But then I watched that Tracy Chapman and you just forget what an unreal fucking talent she is. Trevor, what is the phone number that you've gotten from hosting the Grammys all these years that you're most proud of? Which artist? What famous rocker do you now have on your phone? Oh, I don't have anybody's number, to be honest with you.

You don't go, hey, hey, hey, it'd be great to hang out. I was in a band. You can have my number. I would gladly take your number. This is a strange thing to say, but like, so I always found it strange that people would try to be friends just because they're in a similar space. So I don't know how to explain it. You're famous. I'm famous. We should hang out. Yeah, but okay, so this is what would happen to me. All right? You would all probably understand this, right?

I remember when I first came to America and now I would get invited to events because you know part of the Daily Show and you go to these events and everyone would be like, "Oh we should hang out. You take my number. Take my... Oh my god Trevor, we got we got to hang out sometime. We got to get a coffee. We got to get a coffee. This guy's great. We got to get... Let me get your number. Where are you? Oh yeah, I'm there all the time. We got to do..." And I would give people my number and in my head I was like, "Wow, I'm making so many friends. These people are so friendly. This is amazing."

And then I would hear nothing from them. I would message them. I would hear nothing. They wouldn't respond at all. People, by the way, people in Hollywood change their numbers all the time. Like, I don't even know who, like, everyone has like a new number all the time. Yeah. And then what would happen was, this was my favorite, one of my favorite memories of

I met somebody, and this has happened a few times, I met the same person at another event, maybe like a year later, and they're like, "Oh my God, Trevor, this is... Oh man, how have you been? Congratulations." "Man, we got to hang out. Let me get your number." And I was like, "I think you have my number." And they're like, "No, no, no, I changed phones and I got a whole day... Didn't your number..." I was like, "My number didn't change." They're like, "No." And then I put my number in on their phone, and you know when you type it in on the screen? Then my name just popped up, and I was like, "You have my number." I'm like, "Wait, wait, wait."

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then what did Justin Theroux do? Ah!

Oh, let me tell you. Okay, I have the greatest Jason Bateman story for me at least. For me at least. I don't know if you remember. This is easily, easily my favorite memory of you. It's also a horrific memory, but now I laugh at it. I can't remember yesterday, so chances are high. So I was invited to a...

It was a Netflix party before one of the Emmys. It was for like a whole bunch of nominees before the Emmys. And Ted Sarandos was hosting this event and everyone's gathered and it was, I mean, it was star-studded. It was crazy. And you don't see these people all the time. That's the misconception everyone has is that if you're on the same platform, you just hang out. Right. I was just standing there, you know. And I look across the garden where this event's being held and I see Jason standing.

And I'm like, oh my God. And I've loved you forever. I go, you easily won like my favorite comedy performance. I mean, all of you are in different things. Like Sean, I used to watch Will and Grace with my mom. It's okay. No, no, no, no. It's okay. Don't throw the compliments away. I mean it. Like literally the timing, the cadence, the everything, Will, everything you do on like BoJack Horseman. So I love comedy.

I love the technique. But last, right, was Sean and Will? Yeah, I mean, I mean this honestly. Going forward. You're easily one of my favorite funny people ever. But at that time, Ozark was just...

It was my life. It was the best. Anything I had seen that had flipped the whole genre of like, you know, drugs and everything. One of my favorite comedies too. I thought it was very funny actually. So I see you and you see me standing across the way and you look at me and you just gave me like a little eyebrow like, hello. Hey, man. You know, and I was like, oh, damn, okay. And so I walked over to you

And I said, hello. And you were very kind. You're like, hi. And I immediately went to, I was effusive. I said, I love everything you do. And I just, I went and I said, you did this. And I was like, I love game nights and I love this. And I was just listing everything because I love, I genuinely love them all.

But then I said to you, I said, oh, and most recently you crushed it. You know, I didn't think Ant-Man was going to be good and it was phenomenal. And you listened to me break down the whole Ant-Man everything. And then you paused. And I swear it was like you had written this. Your face, you went like, huh. And he said, do you think that I am Paul Rudd?

And I will never forget that moment. And I went, no, I thought that Paul Rudd was you.

I gave him, but it's true. I was like, I gave him your performance is how good I think you are. I just, anything good he did, I was like, it should be Jason Bateman, I guess. I strive to be Paul Rudd. And we just stared at each other awkwardly for a moment. And you said, huh, did you come here because you thought I was someone else? And I said, no. And you said, but you said Ant-Man.

And I said, I would rather say that I'm racist and you will look the same than admit that that happened. And then we just stood there awkwardly for a moment. And you were very nice. We just stood there and I said, well, one day we'll meet again, hopefully under different... And what I should have said is, don't worry, I'll never remember this because I know how to pour cement over bad memories. JB, do you remember that? I do not.

He doesn't remember anything. By the way, don't take it personally. All I know how to do is remember dialogue. My brain at an early age was formed into that being a one-trick. I'm a one-trick pony. What about a Coke dealer's number? Yeah, yeah, still. Do you need some? Yeah, you remember that. It's been 20-some years. Do you remember old dialogue, though? Yeah.

No. I have a great delete button too so that I have room on my drive for tomorrow. To not remember the other things. He's one of the all-time great dialogue memorizers. But I'll go to a movie with somebody and two days later I'll talk to that person and go, you know what I saw a couple days ago? You've got to see this movie. Right. I've done it a dozen times. What does that mean? I do that too sometimes. I

I'll do it to Scotty. I'm like, I was at this movie. He's like, I was with you. I mean, it's terrible, but maybe it's good because I'm with somebody who feels so comfortable. I mean, it blocks out the bad memories, right? Early onset? That could be. It could be just a trace. Why are you saying early? You think you're young? I'm not that young. Just slide a fucking compliment into yourself?

Oh, here's another one. Here's another one before you carry on. This was, can I just say, so, you know, obviously I'm a huge fan of the podcast and I understand the format, but here's the thing. I didn't know that the surprise guest was really a surprise thing. Yeah. Okay. We didn't know you were going to come on. We've only broken on a couple times. Yeah, so we were at the Vanity Fair Oscars party. Right.

Yeah. And I saw it. Yeah. And Will walks by. Will walks by. You walk straight to me, Will. But you walked to me with the confidence of somebody who knows that I'm coming on to the podcast. And you were like, hey. And then you said, yo, I'm so excited. And I didn't know what. I was like, what?

And then I was like, I'm so excited to chat to you. And then as I said that, Jason was behind you staring at me like I had killed his whole family. He couldn't hear anything, by the way. He was just staring at me. And I said, I'm so excited to chat to you about Formula One. And then we started talking about Formula One.

Interesting. It was funny that you said that now that I remember you saying that. And I was thinking like, man, he's really into Formula 1. He's really honed in on me on the Formula 1 and he's been looking... I was panicking. I was like, oh, I screwed the whole thing up. It was a save. And then I was like, oh, let's just get into Formula 1. And you did look at me like, man, this guy really went deep into Formula 1 in the middle of an Oscars party. Right out of the gate. And then you walked away and then Jason came up to me and he said...

Please, you didn't say anything. You don't fuck this up. You're the surprise guest. You don't fuck this up, Trevor. I didn't say anything. I didn't say anything. And then he walked away. Did you say that to him, JB? Yeah. It's funny. I had somebody else at the thing as well that same night after you, Trevor. I won't say it is because I don't know whose guest it is. Come up to me. And it's somebody I've known a long time. And I go,

And I go, what's up, dude? He goes, I'm coming to talk to you on your stupid podcast. And I go, well, I didn't know that asshole. Oh, God. And he's like, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.

Rockwell did that too. Poor guy. Oh, yeah. Rockwell did. Do you like getting gussied up like that, Trev, and going out to those kind of events? By the way, Trevor, let me just tell you something. You looked really good on Sunday. Very sharp. Thank you. Thank you. I've never heard that term, gussied up. Gussied up. Yeah. We got some beauties here in this country. You ever been to Illinois? No. Okay. No. No.

No, I've been everywhere actually, yeah. No, I do enjoy it. Yeah, I mean, I went to, so in South Africa, in school, you wear school uniform your whole life. So I actually like dressing up like that because I feel like it's no stress. I go, yeah, you put on the pants, you put on the jacket and you know you're doing it right. We're lucky. Women have it so tough. Yeah, they do. They kind of like find the gown and then those shoes.

shoes on yeah I wear comfortable shoes my toes are all individually spaced out it's wonderful you know I think that when you said women have it so tough they were expecting something a little more than the shoes and the gown but okay well hey this is how we get into it right this is how we get into it the stuff they've got to deal with Trevor I want to you know I brought it up at the start of talking about Africa and I want to know how often you get back to Africa I'm so I've never been

I've never been either. I want to go. And I feel like I'm depriving myself. I really want to go. This is the same thing I get in most of my hate mail. When are you going back to Africa? Oh, geez. Oh, no. Well, can I... Let me just add to that. Can I go with you? I want to go because you're kind of like the dude. I...

Do you get back often? I go back all the time. Yeah, I'm there all the time. Especially, like, since I left The Daily Show, I get to go back a lot more. You know, I spend time with my mom, spend time with family. I'm there, I would say I'm there like every two months. Really? That's so nice. That's great. How long a flight? 16 hours from New York and then 20...

it becomes like a weird 25-ish hour journey from LA. So yeah, 16 hours direct South African airways, right? Yeah. No, no, no. Actually, United's the only airline that flies there now.

-Really? -Yeah. So, you know, life giveth and life taketh away. And America, your new adopted home, do you generally-- What's your take on it? -Do you like it? -Oh, I love this place. -Do you have favorite places? -Oh, I love this place. So here's the thing, yeah. Here's the thing about America is I think, again, you see nuance is maybe what is lacking sometimes. I think people take for granted

that you can live in a place where you find it both amazing and at many times disappointing, depending on what you're experiencing of it. Yeah. You know, people sometimes walk up to me in the streets and they'll be like, you hate America, you piece of trash. Why don't you leave? And I'm like, who said I would not live anywhere I hate? Let's start with that. Secondly, I genuinely find a lot of America amazing. And I find...

It's the optimism that is etched into the very fabric of the country that I find amazing. You know, it's an amazing country where black people at a time when they had no rights believed that there was a path for them to get equal rights. Even that is a strange level of optimism that I think is beautiful and profound.

Yeah, considering how they were living. Yeah, that's exactly my point. It's an incredibly ambitious and productive... Yes, it has that. And I think it's a wonderful trait to hold on to and to never lose. And so while America has many faults, other countries have many. I travel all the time, so...

I'm under no illusion. I don't think of America as best or worst. I just think every place has the issues that it is dealing with at the time that it's dealing with them. So you... Yeah, I know. There's something I've always loved about Americans and America as a place and how different each state and each city is. I'm eternally grateful to be here. You're a West Coast guy or an East Coast guy? I split it. I find...

The East Coast is great for your mind. The West Coast is great for your body. Yeah. And I mean your body, not physically, but just like... That's well put. I feel like you breathe a little more. You sleep better. You eat better. You... Yes. It just has a calming effect on you. But the East Coast is great to get your brain just like really stimulated and going. Yeah. I agree with you. There's a lot... And I moved here when I was 20 from Canada, so it wasn't that far. But...

I do agree that there's so many great things. And I give this country a lot of shit. But I've been here a long time. And there's so many great things about this country. And I agree with you. But it's important for us to point out this stuff, you know, to be honest about the shortcomings because it's the only way. Yeah, and to care for it. Well, yeah. You've got to think of America like a Boeing airplane. Hmm.

You should appreciate the fact that it can fly and the fact that it does is pretty amazing. I mean, the fact that this tin can is floating in the sky at 40,000 feet, that's pretty amazing. That's wild.

But if you stop paying attention to it and you don't try and constantly improve it, then the doors might fall off and the landing gears might fail. And the wheels fall off. And it also inexplicably will lose power when it's traveling from Australia to New Zealand and fall 500 feet in a second. The point is, I get what you're saying. But it's like sex, too. It's like even when it's bad, it's still sex, right? Yeah.

Guys, are we saying that? Sure, yeah. Are we going to go with that? I mean, is that the last thing we're going to get Trevor? We can probably workshop that one a little bit after we're done. I'll need to digest that one. Trevor, you are nine minutes over your obligated time, and I apologize for that. We love you. We thank you. What a fucking delight. What an absolute delight. Hey, Trevor, let me get your number. Let's hang out. We should do that. I'll let you know when I'm in. I'm not.

No, but actually, because you're a Liverpool fan and an F1 fan, like, we actually should hang out. I'll, you know, we can just watch the things and then even if we say nothing, we had a good time. He's not a bad hand. We actually should and I actually will do it. I actually will. I like that. Thank you. Okay.

Okay. All right. Thank you, sir. Hopefully I see you again soon. Until then, thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. God bless. This is really cool. Yeah, thank you, Trevor. Nice to get to know you. In Africa, we say God bless and may Simba always be by your side. Wow. That's exactly what I was thinking. Simba. I feel like he's kidding, but I'm going to take him at his word. I'm going to take him at his word.

Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Trev. See you in Joburg. Have a great rest of the day. Thanks, Trevor. Bye. Bye, buddy. Well, that, you know, listen, I'll tell you what, our best guest at times. I really like that Trevor Noah. I really like him. Cool it. Cool it. No, I know. I really like him. You were spoken for and so is he all day. No, I know. I think that he's a special dude. I really like him. Yeah, so smart. Like, I didn't know anything about him. I just thought I was a fan. Apologize. Yeah, I apologize to him.

But he's got, we didn't even, I love talking to him so much, we didn't even get to his podcast on Spotify. His podcast on Spotify is called What Now? Okay? What Now?

What now? What now? And that's on Spotify. And he's on tour right now, like all over the world. And tickets are on sale through November. So if you're in Singapore, Stockholm, Copenhagen, France, Germany, Rotterdam, Auckland, Melbourne. I mean, the guy is hopping all over. He's like a real intern.

national superstar. Yeah, yeah. Comedy superstar. The real deal. Because most of the comedians that we know who are our friends who we adore, but they're all going to fucking Denver and Omaha and shit, right? Like a bunch of fucking ding-dongs

Right? But then you got Trevor Noah and he's in Singapore. I mean, all our fucking stupid American comedian friends can suck it. Trevor's out in the world, places, right? Sophisticated. -He's sophisticated. -He's a cool shit. Yeah, I like talking to people. I learn so much just from a quick hang like that. I've also, you know, been thinking about that city he performed at recently. Do you guys remember the name of that city?

Oh, here comes, here comes, here comes. What are you, are you trying to wrap it up already? We barely talked about him. What do you want to say more? I love him. He's super smart. I want him to come back so I can learn more. He's excited about his buy. Let him get to it. What were you talking about, Sean? Well, it's a place where a lot of rich people live. Oh, where's that? Dubai. God, he's had that loaded for a half hour. Smart. Rich. Smart.

Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbico, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Armjarff. If you like Smartless, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.