"Tina Fey"
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Sean, you'll never guess what we're going to do today. Are we going to record an episode? Did I just guess it right? Well, first, man, how many times? Baby steps. First thing we're going to do is we're going to welcome our audience and we're going to say... Oh, welcome to Smart List. Try to do it in time. Okay, sorry. One more time. One, two, three. On three. No, the moment's gone. Oh.

Welcome to Smart Lessons.

Speaking of hydrating, did you run six miles yet today, Bevan? No, no. It'll be after this. I didn't think so. Just looking at you, I didn't think so. I'm holding a little water right now, yeah. It's going to be after this session. So I got real tight. I got a hard out in 55 minutes. I was boxing today. I'm doing this thing, boxing at home. I know, listen, it's a tough guy thing, obviously. You box at home.

Like in your garage? Yeah, like just with boxes. Like I'm just putting boxes together. Oh, okay. Beautiful. What did you think I meant? Just...

You don't really have, you're not one of those dorks with a heavy bag hanging in your garage. Ew, that's gross. Do you really have one? It's not hanging. It's on a stand. I got one of these things. It's on the ground. He just tackles it. Thoreau talked me into it. And then you look at Thoreau's arms. He's on the cover of Esquire. Justin Thoreau. Thank you. Why haven't we had Justin on the show yet?

Because we want to talk about him more. We haven't talked about him enough on the show to then have him on. I met him like once or twice. Such a nice guy, but I don't know him like you guys do. I would love to. Okay. Well, Will, which one of us, they can't really be surprised. One of us has got to... Well, one of us is going to get on it and the other one's going to be surprised that the other one did it first. Look, anyway, we got to get to our guest. Our guest is an incredible writer, writer.

started as a performer, became a writer, then started becoming a performer again. And the second I mention one of the things you're going to be like, I know exactly who this is.

We've talked a lot over the episodes with people who've been on SNL. We haven't had anybody who's been on the anchor desk. This person was on the anchor desk for many years. Tina. Tina. Tina. Tina. Tina. Tina. She wrote Mean Girls. Tina. Tina. Tina. Tina. Hi, my three buddies. Hi.

- How are you? - Oh, look at her. - Oh, what? - Nice to see you. - She's outside. - You can't say anything and then not know that it's Tina. - Thank you. - Hi. - Hi. - Wait, are you in, is that an outside area of your apartment that I never saw the outside of? - No, I have a weekend home now since the last I saw you, Sean. - There's no apartments in the Hudson Valley.

No, she weekends in the Hudson Valley. This is, yeah, this is her weekend home. It's my weekend home. Tina, do you and I have the exact same frames? I think yours look black and white. Mine look a little tortoise-y. And can I tell you something? Just so you know, like, something, what I'm dealing with here, there's an incredibly passive-aggressive nine-year-old out here with me who will not vacate the area. Really? And...

She's playing some basketball, which is like, this is probably the first day in her life that she's chosen to play some basketball, and it's during this podcast. But that's okay. It's a great ambient sound. Incoming, incoming. It's great ambient sound. So Tina, tell me, so yes, we've all been at home for the last year.

or some version of home or in one of our many homes. One of our many, many homes. So relatable. But do you... So what does that mean for you right now, getting back to it? Because you're always... I always feel like you're always creating... I know you've just created a new show. Yeah. Right? That's about to start. Yeah, well, I just... We have a... I produced a show called Girls 5 Eva that comes out on Peacock. Yeah.

On May 6th. Wait, what's it called? It's called Girls 5 Eva. And it's a comedy. It's super funny. It starts you out with a laugh. There we go. Yeah, Girls 5 Eva. I love the title. It's about a bunch of women who were in sort of a Danity Kane level girl group around 2000. And then their song gets sampled now. And they're like, should we? We're all 40. We should get our band back together, right? Yeah.

And it stars... That's a good idea. That's really funny. Yeah, it's really funny. It's Meredith Scardino is the creator on it. And it stars Sara Bareilles, who is a delight. And her voice is ridiculous. She's incredible. And also, she's like a lovely, natural actress. And then Renee Elise Goldsberry...

Who you know from, oh, I don't know, fucking Hamilton, Will? Jesus. Get the look off your face. Are you saying that because I'm the only, for so long, I was the only person who hadn't seen it and it was my badge of honor because I was like, I want to see a fucking musical. Stop telling me it's so great. It's a musical. And did you? I get it. I did see it. It was great. Yeah, it was great. Yeah, it was great. I was wrong. And then, wait, let me tell you the other two ladies.

Busy Phillips. Sure. Yeah, she's great. And American treasure, Paula Pell. Oh, she's the best. Oh my God, Paula Pell. We were just talking about Paula Pell. She's hilarious. So Paula Pell was a writer on Saturday Night Live forever and now, and not now, but always kind of an actress and now, but people are finally recognizing her. Yeah, well, she's sort of, you know, we always joke with Paula that she finally aged into her type because she was always the kid at like 12 years old. She was in the play with gray spray in her hair. Yeah.

And now she's like, she's her actual type now. Gray spray acting. Yeah, she's reeked of gray spray for 30 years of her life. Sure. So, Tina, we have to do this because, but for you, it's, you know, obviously you hate going back over like, oh, this is what I did. But it's interesting to everybody who listens. And it's super interesting to us because, not to embarrass you, but you're such a fucking genius.

huge piece of the comedy landscape and have been for so long. And you're such a great voice, incredible writer, incredible performer. You started, yeah, I've just always, you know. There's a but. Hang on, Tina. No, there's no but. Usually is. I've always been very fond of you and I'm such a huge fan and awe of your talent. You started in, you moved to Chicago in early 90s? I, let me think. Yeah, 90s.

I graduated in 92, spring of 92. I graduated from the University of Virginia. So I think I moved in the fall of 1992. Yes. Yeah. So you're from Pennsylvania and then you moved. I know. So you moved to Chicago. You start Second City. Yeah. So I went to UVA kind of randomly and then I went to Chicago and I started ImprovOlympic first and class at the Second City. And that's where I met Amy Poehler. Sure. And a bunch of other people that only Amy Poehler and I know.

But like Kevin Doerr from Brian Stack and Miriam Toll and all those guys. Dratch, Rachel Dratch. Yeah, Dratch. Those were your contemporaries. I remember that was kind of your crew, all those people. So is it crazy that like three of those people end up on Saturday Night Live? I mean, that's like the odds of that is crazy.

I mean, it is and it isn't, I guess, because... Well, then, at the time, there was, like, the Groundlings... Stand-ups, the Groundlings, and Second City were the places they looked. Now, you know, the internet has become the great equalizer and you find people on YouTube, you find people on TikTok, presumably. I'm so surprised they didn't run into you. Yeah, you were a musical director. Well, you didn't run into me because I don't sing. Because you were a musical director out in the Burbs, right? Yeah, in the Burbs, but I was always downtown Chicago, always around the...

I had some friends at Second City. I'm just surprised we never met each other. And the bus station. And the bus station. Yeah. Wait, so Tina, so those are kind of your peeps. I know that like Dratch and Amy and Stack and Miriam and all those kinds of guys were your... Yeah, and Horatio. Yeah, yeah. We've got another one on SNL. Glazer, like all those kinds of people were there too, right? Like in Chicago. Glazer, I was Glazer's understudy. I was John Glazer's understudy. Yeah, and then he left to do Dana Carvey, right?

Yes. To work with Dana Carvey. And I got to go onto the main stage when he left, yeah. So then you moved from Chicago to SNL. Like, McKay and those guys were kind of seniors when you guys were freshmen? Is that kind of the idea? Adam McKay. Exactly. Adam McKay was already head writer at SNL, and I submitted my writer's packet to him. Because I had been on stage at Second City, and Lorne Michaels and Marcy Klein had come to scout talent and...

zero interest in me as a performer. So I was like, well, writer's packet it is. And then... And just for people who don't know, Adam McKay was Will Ferrell's business partner and writer of SNL and writer of all these amazing movies and then he directs

crazy, huge movies now. And yeah. Now he directs a lot of dramatic movies. He's an Oscar winner now, guys. Yeah, yeah. But also for Wisconsin, there is a, you can either be a performer or a writer on Saturday Night Live. And sometimes you make the leap. You get hired as a writer, like Sudeikis. I remember Sudeikis this first year was a writer. Yeah, Sudeikis was a writer. Did not want to be a writer. Conan was a writer. The best part about Sudeikis being a writer and not wanting to be a writer was that he let everybody know.

So in the best way, in the best way. But Tina, were you one of those people that always dreamed of being on a Saturday Night Live? Because I hear so many alums saying, oh, when I was a kid, all I ever wanted. And then they get there and then their dream comes true and they're on Saturday Night Live. Yeah, it is. I feel like I so wanted to be on Saturday Night Live that to me, I would like...

it would be hard for me to understand meeting anyone who didn't want to do that. Right, right, yeah. What do you mean you don't want to do that? And then were you disappointed that they didn't select you for the performing part or were you more comfortable writing anyway? I was always a bit more of a writer, even the way I contributed to the company at Second City, I definitely was like an idea person. I wasn't someone, I didn't have that magic thing that Horatio Sands or Rachel Dratch have where like they come out and you're just like, oh, this is gonna be,

Like they just look sparkly, you know. But don't you feel like to a certain extent like you're kind of

I don't know, this is going to sound mean for performers, but you're kind of overqualified to be a performer. Like it's really hard to be a writer. I think really hard to be a director, less, less hard to be an actor because everybody does that every day anyway, whether you're an actor or not. I mean, people change their behavior when they're with their grandmother versus their best friend. Like people know how to adjust the way in which they come across like that's acting, but writing, I feel like that's really difficult stuff.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's more work, the writing and directing. It is like people who are really good actors. Listen, acting is like 99% having a good face. It doesn't have to be a beautiful face. It's like an interesting face.

You know what I mean? It could be Lupita Nyong'o. It could be Steve Buscemi. But you've got to have a face that people want to look at. And that's like 99% of it. And then 0.4% beyond that is talent. But I think you have that. I think, you know, what you were saying about Horatio and Rachel, you have that thing too where you come out and people are like, oh my God, that's going to be so good. Because it's you. It's Tina Fey who's always fucking funny and always delivers. So I think people get

Just as excited. That's very kind of... I think now, I think I've, like, slowly worn people down. I think it's been, like... It's mirrored my dating life in every way. I'm just like, I'll wear you down. But, Tina, you've got to admit, like, in the best way, like, you kind of Trojan horse them. Like, you know, Marcy and Lauren come in, and they sort of, like, okay, and they don't even see you or whatever. And then you come, and you submit your packet. Obviously, McKay wants... You know, he knows that...

how brilliant you are. You come, you start submitting on SNL and then you, your talent just shows through and you, you end up getting it in spite of them and become like the biggest star on the show for many years. That's got to feel kind of,

I don't mean that in a shitty way, but it must feel like, yeah, I always knew I could do this in a real way. It was, you know, yeah, the long grift sort of paid off. I mean, there's a couple factors. There's like the team of gay scientists that fixed my appearance. Yeah.

That's the title of your next series, by the way. And then I always say, don't underestimate how gloriously lazy Lorne is about casting. Conan, do you think someone was going all over town being like, where's a pasty seven-foot redhead that we can give a talk show to? It's like, no, he was around the office, being funny around the office.

And that's the same thing happened here. It was like, we need to new update anchors. Like, let me look inside my own eyelids for, like, who's available. Do you prefer one over the other, acting and writing? Like, do you miss performing when you're not in a writer's room and vice versa? Writing is, like, it's only fun to have written something. Like, writing's only fun after it's over. Right. And...

But performing is like fun while it's happening. And then for me, if you're me, you usually look back after and go, oh, yeah, that wasn't. Yeah, that would include my I would include myself in that. Yeah. Do you think that? Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm just like, like, I'm beat myself up all the time. Well, you're crazy. So it is common for the weekend anchor to not be a performer, correct? Yeah. Well, Chevy was first, right? He was right. Mostly just that.

He was not a performer that much on the show, was he? Not too much. He was a little bit. Right. He did Gerald Ford and some commercials. Is it common for the head writer to be the anchor? It is now because Jost and Che. Yeah.

are the head writers, I think, among us. - And Seth as well was, yes? - Seth was, yes, yeah. You know what I really did learn that time too, was that I learned, you know, after Jimmy left and then Lorne was like, "Well, do you want to do it by yourself?" And I thought like, "Well, I'm supposed to want to do it by myself, right?" - Yeah. - And I think we even did like, and then at the last minute, I was like, "I don't want to. I want to do it with Amy." And I realized, that's where I learned that I don't work a single. - Right.

Yeah, I kind of remember that. I remember that first, that was a very late-breaking decision. Very late. Rudely late. And then it turned out to be, obviously, great, and you guys, that was such an exciting time for the show. You guys were so good. Yeah.

And it was so much fun. And it was fun to have a front row seat to that. It was amazing. And then you guys at that kind of right in that same year, you guys were doing Mean Girls at the same time. That first year you started, right? You guys were shooting while you were doing Update. Remember that? It was crazy. Maybe. I think you're probably, I'm going to assume that you're right about that.

So many things. I drag to trash. I don't remember a lot of things. Drag to trash. That's the name of my biography. But that seems right. Tina, are you still a fan of SNL? Of course you are. I'm sure you are. Is there anybody that you just are completely drawn to that's on now that you want to work with? Oh, yeah. I am a fan. And what's really exciting now is my older daughter, Alice, is 15. And so we stay up and watch SNL.

So that's fun to like be at that age with her where she's into it, you know? And yeah, I mean. Does she go back and watch your episodes? No. No. No. Do your kids want to watch your stuff? No, they don't give it up. My kids, my wife, no one thinks I'm doing anything but counting paperclips when I'm at work. That's healthy though. That's healthy, I think. Yeah. And they watch everything. They've like, she watched Parks and Rec, 100%. Yeah. The Office, 100%. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

So, yeah, I mean, I'm still a fan of Kenan. That's never going to change. I think Chris Redd is super funny. Chris Redd was on Will & Grace, and he was supposed to be a recurring character. And as they were trying to make his deal, he got a call.

Like a week later. And like a week or two later, he's on Saturday Night Live. I was like, that's so crazy. He just did like a couple episodes of Will and Grace. That is crazy. So Tina, how do you manage being so great at what it is that you do? Like how do you decide where to point your –

I mean, you can be, you can do so many different things, whether it's television or film or theater, musicals, on camera, behind camera. Like, I would imagine it would be somewhat burdensome to try to figure out what to prioritize. I mean, I think TV is sort of where I'm most comfortable because I feel like it's the most interesting place right now. There's more interesting things happening in,

In TV, especially for comedy, I feel like the movies is kind of glacially paced. And it's not that I don't want to do movies, but it also just feels like there's so many more chances for people to fuck it up in movies. Well, it takes seven years to make a movie. Yeah, it takes seven years and takes seven years to shoot it. Don't you always find that like...

There's nothing more boring in a lot of ways than making a movie and being on a movie set. It's so slow and it's not conducive to that immediacy that you have when you're making a show when you've got to shoot nine pages in a day and you've got to get the scene and you've got to move. It's got to be quick. And that lends itself to being funnier rather than shooting one side for one day and then you shoot like three-eighths of a page. Yeah.

Like, this is the worst. And in TV, you know, you did 30 Rock. I mean, you guys would jam through those. You'd have those huge packed days with just like a million scenes and you just got to get it. Also, we all joke about like, remember when we used to make 22 episodes of things? That's like ridiculous now. Like everyone makes like three episodes and collects their awards. Don't you think those days seem like they're over? Don't you think? Yeah.

- The 22 episode day? - I think so. - Yeah, or the 100 episodes of a show. - Yeah. - I think so. - What about writing books? Is that a good time pace for you or is that somewhat glacial as well? - I just did that the one time and I remember I was like doing 30 Rock at the same time. I was doing, I think I started it, I remember I was on this instead of date night with Steve Carell and I just had like a notebook on the set. I was like, yeah, I guess I said I would write this book.

And then as short as that book is, I felt like it near about killed me because again, I don't work a single and I was so used to having a writer's room and I was like, not so much that it was more work, but it was just so vulnerable of like, if this book comes out and people are like, boo, it's a hundred percent my fault. Yeah.

It's 100% a rejection of me personally. It's not a novel. It's just like, here's what my deal is. And if people were like, boo. I've never felt so nervous about anything. I walk into like a grocery store and people go, boo.

Boo. Yeah. But that's just because they've seen your work. That's why they've seen your work. That's what I'm saying. Tina, let me ask you. Yeah, sorry. Go ahead. Are you in like an old person's bathroom? What is that? By the way, you should know. You should know. So this is my home booth.

And these are actually handles for a bathtub. No joke. Because usually when I record my real VOs, I'm standing up and I like to lean and hold on. So I had the guy get these. And they are for somebody who needs help getting in and out of a tub. Okay. Now...

How much harder or what would you have to navigate to do what you do today? If you were starting out and you were 22 today and trying to get into comedy, fuck.

Right? Well, you get... Yeah. Advice, right? Not even advice, just like, what would you do to yourself? How would you do it if you were graduating? I'm not necessarily saying, hey, to young writers out there, listen, literally, what would you do? Yeah, that's a good question. What would I do? I probably would be trying to blow up on TikTok or something, right? I would be cutting out the middleman, which, listen, it's worked well in porn. Sure. Who needs Hugh Hefner anymore, right? Yeah.

It seems like, I mean, unless I'm wrong, it seems like people on TikTok really want to be in television or film and the people in television or film aren't making that money anymore. So they want to go blow up on TikTok. It's, it's, uh, don't you feel that way? Yeah. I think broadcast TV especially doesn't mean like to my kids, that doesn't mean anything to them. Like they don't, they don't understand what,

what's happening. Is there still, I'm going to sound like a real old man here. Um, can you still, uh, like make a bunch of money, um, on, uh, social media, like saying, I like this kind of chocolate. I, I, I say this, like, right. That's a whole industry, right? I think so. Yeah. Like taste. That's not, that's not what tastemakers are called. Is it? Is that what influencers, right? Um, and like people have agents for that and stuff.

Dude. I think so. Take yourself out back and just end it, man. This is fucking... By the way, this is a great opportunity to mention you said chocolate, Jason, for us to mention Reese's. Jason's been asking me to reach out to the people at Reese's because he wants free peanut butter cups because he doesn't make any money over on the Ozarks. I just think that it's...

But I'm so sick and tired of hearing your dumb voice sell candy on TV. I'm like, if I got to listen to it, if I got to listen to it, then why don't you get me a free box of those, the peanut butter cups that are wrapped in peanut butter with the peanut butter inside. It's double, triple peanut butter, and I'm not sorry, whatever it is. I need some of that for free for having to listen to your crap.

Great. Okay. I wrote it down, and they're obviously listening right now. So thank you, everybody at Reese's, and to Jason Bateman. Should I give my address over the air here? Yeah, give your address. Number one, Deadline Hollywood Way. Tina, did you ever imagine it would be this amazing being on this podcast? I mean, I thought about it. Thought about saying no, and then...

My tip on Reese's, though, you know, this is my tip on all candy. Sure. Whenever there's holiday candy where it's like the Reese's shaped like Santa Claus, always buy that candy because it's fresher. Fresher and nice. Because they just made it. You could get a regular candy bar. That's a good point. Could have been in the CVS for seven months. Yeah.

Really good point. We often ask this question of people who are in the public eye who have children. Would you do your kids want to do what mom and or dad does? Or do you would you discourage them from getting it? Or you just say, follow your dreams and I'll support you. It's funny you should ask that. Our older daughter, you know, I think if anything, maybe would be interested in directing. I think she would be horrified to perform. Yeah.

And I never, like, when she was a little kid, I think all little kids think they want to. And I think I let her be, I think she was in some still photographs, Alice. She played young Liz Lemon, but in a series of photographs at the end of, the end, end, end of 30 Rock. And that was like, that's enough. Like, let's keep it measured. And then this other one that you, that's you, no, no, what I'm dealing with. During the pandemic,

it came up, we were, for Girls5eva, we had to cast a kid to play Busy Phillips and Andrew Rannell's child, who is like a little YouTube villain. And I had always said about that one, I was like, you know what? That's a Nellie. I got a Nellie Olsen right here. Jason knows Nellie. I know. Oh,

She became a stand-up. Believe me. Really? I loved her. Yeah, I remember, like, she became a stand-up for a while, right? I want to say Alison Angram? Dude, if you don't know... Oh, my God. Alison Arngrim. Did I say that? I said it right, right? Alison Arngrim, yeah. Yeah. There you go. Anyway, so I let her audition for this part because it was sort of like... Wait, you made your daughter read? Of course I made her read. You made her audition?

Yeah, because I thought that was going to be the end of it. And then her audition was pretty good. I thought I was the bad parent on this segment. Oh, it was going to get worse. And then she did pretty well. And then there was another kid who was like an actual experienced kid. And we're like, well, this... And I was like, this will be good for her. We could hire the kid with more experience. And so I had to tell her like, well, you did really well. And I was making it up. I was like, you were in the top three.

And but, you know, we had and then she was like, basically, it was like, I didn't book it. And I was like, you didn't book it. Well, I was like, you're half TFA. That bitch never booked anything. And so I was like, you didn't book it. But then because it was the pandemic, this other poor kid, they were like, well, she can work as a local hire, but she's in Michigan right now. And the quarantine, it fell apart. And so then I was like, back up. All right, homegirl, you're up.

So she's in it. And now we're faced now. And it was at the time it was like, you get to leave the house and get a test and work during quarantine. And I will say she was incredibly professional. I said she was like a little bit like mommy. She was like very prepared and a little dead eyed. You've all acted with me. That's what it is. But she was good. And a little dead eyed.

Oh, my God. If she hears a clip of that, she'll murder me. So, listen, Tina, I'm kind of obsessed with horrible theater stories and theater stories gone wrong. I have so many. Do you have, like, a favorite of, like, a play you were in or at Second City or something? Oh, a favorite theater horror story? I do have a pretty good theater horror story. It's from high school theater. Yes. So, okay, in my high school, I played Van Helsing in Dracula. Oh, my God.

Because feminism. Did you borrow Paula's gray spray? I probably did. Nice callback. Nice callback. And so, okay, so let me think about this. So I was Van Helsing in Dracula and we did like a total of two performances and everything went wrong. And I can't remember this story. Like the first thing that kind of went wrong would be like our theater was a thrust stage and the seats went up.

Is that arena? So like tiered tier. Yeah. Like, so the stage was on the ground and the audience was up.

And we had like a rubber bat on like a very long string, like scene one, the bat's supposed to fly by, the bat gets stuck. It's just dangling on the stage the rest of the night. We're like, oh, that's not good. Then I give some big speech. There's this guy, Harker says to me like, professor, what is a vampire? And I give a speech like, I give like a page and a half speech of what is a vampire. And this kid was just like not listening. So he goes, what is a vampire? And I give the whole speech. And at the end of it, he looks at me, he goes,

But professor, what is a vampire? Same cue again. Then the kid who played Dracula was this kid, John Doyle, who was like,

very like Bon Jovi based. Like his personality was Bon Jovi. Beautiful hair. Rocker hair, beautiful hair. His mom was a hairdresser and his mom was also a professional and Jillian impersonator side story. Anyway, let's get back. We'll double back to that. We'll double back. And so John, you know, because he was like, he was like, Oh, he takes rock singing lessons in New York. Like he was cool guy. He was not an athlete. And so there's a scene where there's a mirror of,

And Dracula, like, sees the mirror, and he's supposed to throw this, like, chalice or something and smash the mirror. And so John, being, like, not an athlete and in this open arena, like, I go, a mirror! And then he, like, throws the thing, misses the mirror entirely. So then I'm, like, trying to improvise, like, what am I supposed to say? And then a full, like, 20 seconds later, a little techie kid comes out, like, in full view of the audience with a hammer from behind and smashes the mirror. LAUGHTER

Oh, at one point also, then the set caught on fire a little bit. Jesus. There was like a little flash pot and the fake rocks of the castle were foam and started to catch on fire. And then my dad, who had been a fireman and did not fuck around, he stood up and he was like, fire! And we were like, okay. He stood up in the audience and yelled fire. This is like all act one. And then put the fire out. We continued. It's a longer story than you wanted. And then...

Again, the techies, there's a part where there's a techie just in a bay window, just in full view of the audience with a fog machine, just being like, knowing he's just a total hero. And then the end of the... The whole thing ended with Van Helsing kills Dracula with a spike through the heart. And it was...

I'm down and I'm like acting so hard and I'm doing this whole speech. And then I just hear laughter. And I was like, this, this can't be good. This is the end of the whole play. Because again, the stage flat audience here, I was like lightning flashing. I'm killing the vampire. And I look up and just a toddler has wandered onto the stage toward me. And that's how not scary it was. A toddler. Yeah.

joined us. Wow. That's my story. That's hilarious. By the way, you mentioned your dad. I always think about this. I met your parents a couple times, but I remember your dad, I remember going to your wedding, and we had only met a couple times, but going to your wedding, your dad described me as... He's like, that guy's, Brooks Brothers handsome, right? He said, no, he said, Arrow shirt. Do you remember that? Yeah.

Yeah, my dad was very taken with Willie. He's like, oh, God, that guy looks like an arrow shirt model. But it was very specific. Do you remember arrow shirts? No, I don't remember that. Like in the Sears catalog, like, that guy's an arrow shirt. And I was like... Yeah. It was made for thick dudes? Is that what they... Was it special for... Excuse me? Nothing? Oh, no, Will was thin then. He was really thin then. I was thin then. I don't believe it. I was really...

Tina, because of your theater background, would you ever want to do multicam? Now, for the audience, the difference between multicam and single cam is single cam, there's no audience. Multicam, there's a live studio audience. That's when you hear laughing, like, cheers and Will & Grace and Friends and Seinfeld and all those. Would you ever want to do a multicam? It seems like you'd be perfect for that. Yeah, I do think it would be so fun. I feel like in some ways it's hard to...

Will and Grace was one of the last ones that, especially on NBC, they don't really do them so much anymore. And I also have reached an age where I can't really be photographed from the waist down. Yeah, not true. Not true. So, like, but I do think it would be fun. But wouldn't it be great to hear all that laughter through the masks? Yeah.

No, but or if you don't want to be in one, just like create one and write one. I think you'd be so amazing. Are you saying that you want Tina to create a multicam for you? No. What about what about hosting a talk show? Would you ever do that, Tina? It seems to me like you'd be fantastic at that. Oh, thank you. I thought I don't know that. I think I'm very shy. I think to me it sounds super stressful. I've never wanted to pursue that. I'm really shy, too.

Yeah, we can tell. I am. I don't like being the center of attention. Well, and also those kind of late night talk shows, like that's a grind. That's like... But you, I remember when you were doing 30 Rock, I mean, you came off SNL, which was a grind because you were a head writer and you were doing Update and it was a lot, a lot, a lot, and especially leading right up till, you know, 2008 and everything that was going on. But I'm sorry, you were already doing 30 Rock at that point, but...

You were doing so much. Then you go to 30 Rock, and it just kind of amps it up even more because you're showrunning 30 Rock, and you're writing it all, and then you're starring in it as well and having 16-hour days. So you're not pulling all-nighters every night, but you are going 18 hours or 17 hours a day. Yeah.

Yeah. That was fucking really rough, right? For many years in there? It was insane. First of all, also, if you hear weird breathing sounds, it's the dog. It's not me. Listen, she now has her white, what is it? Cockapoo? He's a poodle. He's just a straight poo. He's a poodle. Straight poo. Yeah, looking back,

I didn't mean to say that you looked tired in those years. I just meant to say more that I know that you were very exhausted. You talked about it. Like, you were, like, getting crushed. It was insane. What we did, I don't know. We were just, I was, what, 35? Yeah. And had some juice left. And doing 22 episodes. And also, my baby, Alice, was one when we started. And it was crazy. It was crazy. Like, I look back and shudder at just what we, yeah. Yeah.

Did you enjoy the shutdown and the pandemic to kind of recharge a little bit or did you stay super duper busy? I wouldn't say I enjoyed it. I mean, like, yeah, it's always one of those things where if you're like, oh, I'm lucky enough that nobody in my family died. So it's okay then just quietly say like, it was nice that we were together. I guess what I meant is enjoyed the period that you could not work. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Nice, right? Yeah. It's kind of nice. I think like,

Like, I would... I'm ready to retire, guys. I'm ready to retire. Me too. By the way, I was saying the same thing. And I was saying... I was talking about it with... Certainly with Amy, too, where she's been feeling the same way, which is just that feeling of like, oh, my God.

you know, much like you kind of did the same thing had, you know, had Archie went right into Parks and Rec. Yeah. And those first few, when you have both your girls have those like little babies and you're working those insane hours on those shows. Yeah. It's crushing. It's like...

It's soul crushing because you're not at home as much as you want to be and you've got little kids and you're trying to fuck balance it all. Right. And it's all, you know, nothing compared to someone who's doing all those same work hours on a job that they hate that doesn't pay well. No, no, no. Of course, it's the same as being a working parent on any job. But like just in the sense that like

Of any working parent, especially a working mom who's working any job that's taking them long stretches, whatever it is. Yeah. And of course, there are a lot of people who can say, well, you get paid really well. Like, okay, sure. But like, you're still working all those hours. Yeah. And it's tough, you know. And it's hard to... Once you get to stop, it's hard to go back. Like, I've...

worked on a couple things. I did a little small part in this show that Steve Martin and Marty Short have and it was that thing of like, and your pickup is 510 and you're like, oh yeah, that used to be every day. Yeah. Yeah.

Especially for ladies because the hair and makeup... People have really gotten used to working at home too, right? In any occupation. I wonder how that's going to all transition back. I think... I know. I do like to go to an office. I like it too. But five days a week or would it be great like just two days a week, three days a week? I feel like that's going to be the transition. Sean, you like going to the office too? I do. I prefer like...

the old man, nine to five kind of one place, one stop shop. Jason likes that too. I like a routine. Jason likes that too. And we had this little company a couple of years ago and we had this shared office and he'd always be like, you fucking dick, we've got this office and you're never in here. And I go, well, yeah, my dad worked his ass off for 40, 50 years.

I don't want to have to do that. Why do you think I do what we do so that I can not go to an office? So you know what I did? I found a portrait of myself and I put it behind my desk so he could look at me even when I wasn't there. That's a true story. That really was counting paperclips at that place. Yeah, it really was. Yeah. So Tina, like you joke about retiring, but of course, you're never going to want to stop writing and you're never going to want to stop doing that kind of, well, oh,

Oh, really? No, come on. So wait, Tina, what would you do, though? Is there anything, like, picture the girls are grown and out and it's you and Jeff and you're at home and what you still would be writing or is there something that you'd want to be doing? I wonder. I so wonder. It's like that thing of, you know, the improv training, right? You go back to it and it's like, when do you enter a scene? This is the trick, the thing that trips people up. Does anyone remember, like, when are you supposed to enter a scene? And the answer is...

when you're needed. It's the only time you're supposed to enter. You're not supposed to enter because you have a funny idea. You're not supposed to enter because it's going well and you want a piece of it. What about the notion of like you and Jeff just doing just globetrotting and having some wanderlust? And once you guys become empty nesters, just start traveling the world and knocking down and getting all cultured. Is that something that's appealing to you or are you as soft as I am and you need CNN and Threadcount? Oh, yeah. I want to see a couple places.

But I don't need to see everywhere. I know I'm increasingly just a homebody. You know what I wish one of us should write is like someone should try to be Neil Simon, right? Like someone should write a play. Yes, I nominate you. As if that's easy to do. But like to write a comedy, a hard comedy, because I'll tell you what, I go to these Broadway plays and what passes for a joke, Sean, is like mentioning Brooklyn as a joke. Just the word. Ha ha ha!

And you have to do it out. You have to play it out. Brooklyn. What about the films that Neil Simon, they adapted and became great? You know, like California Suite. Yeah, California Suite. Goodbye Girl is one I like. And the Blake Edwards stuff. I mean... Yeah, what about them? Those big commercial films. I mean, someone's got to write them, Tina. They don't write themselves. Nobody goes to that shit. I don't think they make comedy films anymore. They make like... Put them on Netflix. Let's do that. Yeah.

I don't know, man. I saw some poll online today. It was like, if you could only live with three of these film franchises, which one would it be? And it was like Marvel, Star Wars, Harry Potter, all these. And I was like, wait, that's what it's become? That's it? Those are the films? Fuck that, man. Yeah. And nobody's funny. This is crazy. I can't wait for the letters and the comments. Oh, nobody's funny anymore? Yeah, okay, yeah, you're hilarious. I love it.

Bring it on. No, you're not saying that. You're saying that comedies are not in the theaters anymore, really. Yes, that's what I'm saying. Nobody's making comedy films. No one's going to make, you know, the in-laws now, the original in-laws. No, no. Nobody's going to make...

nobody's making Rushmore. You'd make it for Netflix, I guess. But I'm fine watching it at home on my couch. I don't need to drive to a theater to see that, right? I mean, I'd go to a theater to see some big, huge format, right? A big IMAX thing or something. You come ask them. Is that Penelope? Come ask them. What's your question? How much longer? Okay, we're almost done. Sorry, we're almost done. We're gonna wrap it up now. We're gonna wrap it up. Your agent looks real young. Um...

Yeah, we are past our hour here. I know, we've been taking up way too much of your time. I'm sorry that we're keeping you from the fact, because I want to keep you on, I just want your opinion on everything. I feel like any time I get your opinion, it feels like it's really the right one. Yeah, for sure. So that's why we've been keeping you around, but... Opinions are all I have anymore. Go. No, it's so good. You've got...

We're going to dismiss you, but we're going to reserve the right to call you back with any questions we have. That's right. Anytime, guys. You're the best. Thank you so much for taking your time to do this. I love you, Tina. You're the best. I love all three of you. Love you, Tina. Go have fun with the rest of your day with that sweet girl. Oh, yeah. Okay, we love you. All right, guys. Love you, Tina. Thank you. Thanks, Tina. Bye, everybody.

Boy, just another... She wanted to get off there at the end. Yeah, do you think she gave a cue to Penelope to come in and say, okay, now this is the time where I need you? No, she'd had enough. Everybody knows who she is. Everybody knows how brilliant she is. Everybody knows... Everybody's a fan. It seems like that's the one person everybody can agree on, right? That's... Oh, my God, she's... I would like to find the person that doesn't like Tina Fey. Like, who... Yeah, who's that person? How could you possibly not? Yeah. I know she's the most... She's just...

So freaking funny. She's such an unbelievable writer and a great joke writer. I mean, just the funniest. Doesn't take herself or anything too seriously. Always has the funniest joke on everything. It's scary. It's intimidating. Yeah, she's... It must be for someone, you know, for you guys. A great leader. Seems like a great leader. Incredible leader. I'm very drawn to her.

It was great. Sean, you were on 30 Rock a few times or once? Just once, the finale of that first season. Just once. Will, you were on it a bunch of times, weren't you? I guess. Well, that's what the four Emmy nominations tell me, but, you know. Wait, what? Come on. I mean, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Wait a second. Is that true? Is that true? Honestly. Were you on for four seasons? Yes. But did you get nominated? Four times, yeah, yeah. Congratulations. Yeah, four. Congratulations. Wait, so guests, so you did four episodes. You got nominated for all four? No, I did more than four episodes.

I did a bunch. I did like the first season I did one or two. It was not their first season. So do you want me to do an impression of your mom really quick? Yeah, go ahead. Well, it would have been more impressive if you won. That's true. That's very true.

Should be much more impressed if I had won. Yeah. God, I... She's listening. No, we can keep it. You know, the first time, Jason, you know this story. We were coming back. Arrested Development had won the comedy, the Emmy for best comedy in 2004, whatever that was.

And the next day, that was a Sunday night. The next Monday, we had to be at work early. You and I were in that scene. Do you remember we had the Emmy? Those guys, Chuck Martin brought his on set. We were so excited that we won. Improbably, because we were such a low-rated show. And I'm driving to the Fox lot from Venice. And my mom calls. And it was like 6 a.m. L.A. time. And I'd been up until 3 because we were so excited. I was like, oh, my God. Did you see the Emmys last night? No, we won. And she goes, I did.

Now, your sister is going through and then just completely... Oh!

And I was like, okay. It was a very sort of Canadian, like the whole idea is always like don't get too big for yourself. Right. You know, and don't like, oh, you think that you're better than anybody else? Like, I guess I don't. I'm sorry, I don't. I think I'm worse. And like, there we go. That's more like it. You know the idea, have you ever heard the story about the two lobster fishermen, one Canadian and one American are walking down the road and the American lobster fisherman says to the Canadian, he says, hey,

I noticed that you don't have a lid on your lobster pot there, boy. Aren't you worried that your lobster is going to get out? And the Canadian says, no, these here are Canadian lobsters. If one of them tries to get out, the other ones will pull them back down. That's Canada. Oh, Lord. That's Canada. That's what I grew up in. Oh, bless. And I love Canada. I love it to death.

And I grew up like that too. It's a very, there's a very sort of, anyway, I don't know. Speaking of Canada, have you given any thoughts? I imagine you're going to book the guest for our Toronto stop for our tour. Which, listener, it does look like it's firming up. It does look like we're going to actually do this and we're going to go to a few cities.

Just inside the new year. Just inside the new year. 2022. And we're starting the tour in Toronto. Is that right, eh? We can say that, yeah. And then some New York and some Boston, some Chicago, some Madison, some LA. Is that right? I think that's right, yeah. So who would we... Will you try to... I have a couple people in mind that I want to have for Toronto.

You know, I know that Chicago— We should start taking suggestions for guests. Yeah, that's a good idea. Saying the expression tap link in bio, does that mean anything? Tap link in bio? What does that mean? Who's link in bio? That's what you say on, like, Instagram, you know. Oh. Tap link in your bio. Oh, tap link in bio. You know what else they say sometimes on Instagram? No, don't. Don't you do it. Not yet. We're still talking. We're still talking. Jesus fucking Christ. He gets so excited when he figures out a buy. That would have been perfect.

I know it would have been perfect, but we have a few more things that we need to do about the tour to talk, because the tour is becoming a reality. Yes. Sean, do you have a person in mind for Chicago? I do. I have several, but I don't want to say them out loud. Yeah, don't say them out loud yet. Yeah, how are we going to decide who's booking what cities? Well, why don't we... Well, we have to do dibs, and I want to do dibs. You ready? Toronto and Wisconsin...

Oh, you want Madison. I want Madison. Even though it's my sister. Wait, but are we going to Madison strictly to see Sean's niece, nephew? My sister. Your sister. You fucking idiot.

And how could Tracy be his nephew, man? I've met a couple of Tracy dudes. Yeah, I do too. Yeah, I have too. Yeah, yeah. But all these guests need to be sort of germane to the location, yes? That's right. That's right. That's the whole idea is we're going to have guests who are germane, hopefully like a very sort of organic, not shoehorned in pick. Mm.

So think about it. I think that what we got to do is, though, we got to make sure. Here it comes. You want to buy? But for the tour, though, if you want to talk about the tour. No, I'm not saying that there's rules. I'm not saying that there are rules to this. I'm just saying that you have to check the. Bailos. Bailos.

That's so bad. Okay, goodbye. Bye. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. If you like SmartLess, you can listen early and add free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.