"Larry David"
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Hi, this is Larry David. I've been asked to say that I'm going to be on the show later. So I'm complying with that request. Yeah, welcome to, what is this? I don't even know what I'm on here. What is this? Smart. Live. Smart. Live. Smart. Live.

Hi, everybody. Jason, I love that you're still here in town. I didn't know you were going to be here that long. I am working remotely this week, yes, from Los Angeles. Wonderful. Where it's got New York weather today. It's nice and rainy. I love it. We've had some nice rain. Warring rain. Do you guys like weather, or do you love this Southern California? Hey, man, I'm not single, so I don't know where this is going. Hey, guys, what's your favorite season? Hey, do you like weather? Come over here real quick. Can I talk to you for a second? Sure.

Yeah, it's nice. I prefer it. Well, because it's very Chicago-y. Yeah, but you would like 75 and breezy 365 days of the year? No. Yeah, I don't like the heat, so that's an issue.

I don't mind it. But you wouldn't mind some snow and some rain, would you? That's what I'm saying. I actually enjoy this. I think I've told you this before. I live in such a snow... I grew up in such a snowy place. Well, not really that snowy, but cold. To the extent that this morning, dropping the kids to the bus, it was raining and stuff. And I saw this one road... Isn't that great, Sean, how he just takes them just to the bus stop. Can't take them all the way to school like some of us. Well, I don't live in the valley, so... So anyway...

I see a road that's going up off Beverly Glen, like really steep little side road. And I think my first, and I had this in my old house, like, boy, man, it's going to be tough when it gets icy. It doesn't get icy. No. So your brain just immediately, huh. My old house, when I was going to buy it, I thought like, fuck, how am I going to get up this thing when it ices? And then like, oh, it doesn't get icy. Never ices. That's incredible.

I know. By the way, go ahead, Sean. You were going to say something. You go. Well, I was just going to say, because I realized as I'm talking, I did another mistake. I got one of those emails and it had the thing buried. It had like reviews buried in the email. I opened it up and then it has like a couple about the podcast. One of them was one star and it said, does Will only get one hour to speak a week because he just wouldn't shut up. And I'm like, I'm giving this guy satisfaction. At the same time, I'm thinking like, it's free.

Right? Yeah. He didn't pay anything for it. Right. Could turn it off. Yeah. But he's implying that he would gladly pay a little bit to shut you up a lot. I guess so. And or it made him so mad this thing he's getting for free that he went online and typed out a message, gave the podcast one star. He's got time. Oh, Willie, don't read. You always read those. Well,

Well, I do it for you guys. I'm out here. You want me on that wall. You know, you need me on that wall. But it's a specific subset of our listeners that actually take the time to write something not so nice.

Yeah. And like, is it a full representation of our audience or not? I don't know. It was very hostile towards me. We take it under advisement, though. Yeah, we take it under advisement. So I'm going to shut up. Well, don't do that. No, don't do that. Maybe what he's saying is he likes you at an eight, he'd love you at a five. No, no, no. He wants me at a zero. I love that you're just like, then just don't listen. I get it. Um, I...

was chatting with Will very briefly this morning. Do you guys talk before we talk? Not usually. You guys running over bits? Yeah.

Okay, so listen, so you set me up with this. And I text her. And Jay, I texted you a lot, a lot. I was like, I think I reached my text limit with Jason. What, last night? Last night or two nights ago. Wait, let me look here. I don't see any text from you. Yeah, I was like. I don't see any text from you. Oh, wait. No, we were texting back and forth. Oh, about Scotty? Yeah, about Scotty, yeah. Oh, that wasn't a lot. Yeah.

Did you hear about Scotty, Sean? No, what happened? Sorry. Oh, yeah. It's not working out. Scotty's out. Scotty's out. Almost 18 years. Yeah. Yeah. So Sean is trying to figure out what to do with the weekend to take full advantage of it. Let's talk about the weather, Jason. He's tech avail LA. Yeah. He's just ordered a box of glow sticks from Amazon for the weekend. No, I wanted to tell you. So I was eating breakfast. I walked past.

the bathroom and this is the craziest thing. Scotty loves peanut butter. Why is my sound going out? Uh-oh, can you hear? There we go. Okay, go ahead. Hang on a second. Sorry, let me remind you where you were. So Scotty loves peanut butter. Go ahead. Right. By the way, do you think that this would fit into the breaking news category? Absolutely. Did you guys find each other on the PB&J freak site?

Well, that's fun because I love jelly. What's your address? That's not even that good. I guess it is.

Could you imagine a PB&J? Love to spread a little of you on me. Like a food dating site. We could make, the two of us together would make a great meal. By the way, not supposed to be a dating site. It's supposed to be just. Just a culinary site. Peanut butter appreciation site turned into a dating site. They got married at the Jif headquarters. Okay, so here we go.

Here we go. Do you like Jif? This is funny. This is funny, actually. Do you like Jif? Scott, Sean? I'm in a Jif. I do like Jif. Scotty loves peanut butter. I would love to see a taste test between Jif and Skippy. Sorry, go ahead. Let's do it. When his blood sugar is low, okay, because he's got diabetes, he'll go in the pantry and scoop out a spoonful of peanut butter. And every time any one of us goes to get peanut butter, Ricky, the dog, can smell it, and he comes over there and sits there and he drools like crazy. And there's like a puddle of his dog spit. So...

-Sure it's a bit? -It's cute and disgusting all at the same time. And it's created a bad habit because we always cave in and give him some peanut butter. So now we have to find a way to sneak the peanut butter when the dog is sleeping in another room. So this morning I walked by the bathroom near the kitchen and I'm like, "Are you in there?" He said, "Yeah, I'm eating peanut butter." I said, "In the bathroom?" He said, "Yeah, it's the only way to avoid the dog." -Isn't that-- -I remember when-- Yeah, I remember. -What? -I don't know.

When I was a kid, that was the only place to get privacy, and I would do different things in the bathroom than sneak peanut butter. He really truly brought the jar of peanut butter. But you know what? Both you and Scotty have the same, you end up with the same result, right? You both finish full release. I thought that was odd and funny. It was. It's definitely. Here's somebody who's funny but not odd. How about that? Not great, but go ahead. He's a very talented pal.

of mine. He's had more success than the three of us combined. Like many comedians, he's got stand-up and Saturday Night Live on his resume. But before making his mark on the comedy zeitgeist of the last half century, he got his bachelor's degree in history, worked as a private chauffeur with a uniform and everything, and was selling bras at wholesale. Things took a major turn for him in 1988 when he started to work on a little pilot called...

The Seinfeld Chronicles. It's my very hilarious friend, Larry David. Larry David. Oh, look at him. Oh, look at him. He's already bored. He's already bored. Already? How about 15 minutes? I apologize. It definitely comes out of your time, so that's a good thing. You're only going to be with us for another 45 minutes. But here's the sad part. By the way, the dog thing. I love when the dogs are out of the house.

So I can have a meal. That's what I'm saying. And relax. That's what I'm saying. You can't eat with them. That's what I'm saying. That's your fault probably or Ashley's, right? You fed them and now they don't forget that. No, she started feeding them from the table. It's all her fault. I gave her a dirty look, but she did it. And now...

Why don't you make her eat outside with the dogs? That'll teach her. And she'll never do it again. I'm telling you, I take snacks into my bathroom. I do. Right. Because of the dogs? Yeah, because of the dogs. That's what I'm saying. So somebody, yeah, you can relate. Larry, I'm so glad you're finally here. We just finally made your deal. It took so long. I know. What do you mean? God, your business affairs was just, I guess, was your agent just beating us up?

What are you involved in business affairs? We're not. We're kidding. This is all free. You're not getting paid for this. He was joking. By the way, you know, I... I get that a lot. A lot of surprise. Oh, sorry. It was humor?

I really sneak up on folks. Check your six. What the fuck? Can we talk about Sean's appearance on Curb this year? Wow, it's going to get there. I haven't seen it yet. If we have to. All right, so speaking of making deals, you made a Sean Hayes deal and got him on the show. Yeah. Yeah.

And? And? He's a long time coming. Do you have notes? Be fucking real. Be honest. Be honest. I'm going to be as honest as I can. Yeah. He was fantastic. I don't know. Really? I'll bet he was just fine. Listen, he was, no, fantastic. Oh, thanks. He played a lawyer and you believe this guy was a lawyer. And he had to do a scene where he wakes up in the morning and

It was like Gene Hackman from the French Connection. Oh, boy. The acting display of him getting up in the morning. Sure. The whole deal. Yeah. My mouth dropped. I was in awe of it. It was incredible. I added wiping my eyes. What? Wiping your eyes? It was real Gene Hackman. Did you start with a... Yeah, a little bit. A little bit.

Which Sean has the worst sleep hygiene, I imagine, of the four of us here. So that must have, you had to dig deep. Did you study people's sleep? How'd you do it, Sean? I watched hours of tape. Yeah. Of just people sleeping. People without, that weren't wearing the mask, right? But that was one of the, I don't know. Curb has been one of my favorite shows forever and ever. And I loved being on it. I was honored to be asked. I was honored to do it with you and on the last season, nonetheless.

- Yeah. - Will, did you ever get on that show? - No, I was never asked. - Yeah, me neither. - Oh boy. - Not once. - Larry said to me-- Larry, do you remember this? Like about a year ago I ran into you and Larry said, "Hey, he said--" - "Oh, hey, you should be on the show." - He said, "How come you--" He did. And he goes, "How come you were never on Curb?" I said-- First of all, I said, "Well, 'cause I think I'm too tall." And then I said-- And then I said, "It's your show. You never asked me. That's why. It's the primary."

Yeah. You know, it is true. Just about everybody in Hollywood has either been on that show or Law & Order. And not us. Although, Willie, you've done a Law & Order. I did Law & Order. But I would say this. Now, now I take pride in the fact that I wasn't. Now it makes it more, I'm in a more exclusive club. Yep. There you go. I'm like the Marty Scorsese of never winning the best Oscar for directing with regards to. Or Susan Lucci. Sure. Yeah.

Well, it does sound like, I will say, it does sound like a really, from what I've heard from my friends that have been on the show, that it's like one of the greatest experiences. It's like up there with like Saturday Night Live. Like it's just an incredible group and you're improvising. I think it's the improvising. Actors really love to improvise. But I'll bet you've had some that have been like, forget it. I will sink in that atmosphere. Do not, I'm not coming on. Yes.

- Yes, not many, but there have been a few who really couldn't. - Had a tough time. - What do you do about those who say, "Oh yeah, great, no, I love improvising." And they come on and they're just horrendous. What do you, how do you, who has a conversation with them? You or the director?

You mean somebody who we've asked to do it? To do it, and they clearly are way over their skis with improvisation. Do you do a, okay, guys, let's take a quick five. It's only happened a couple of times in the show where people were trying to be funny. Right, right, right.

And that's like the worst thing you can do. And that's a hard note to give. What does that sound like? Do you pull that aside? Here's the note. Don't try to be funny. Oh, shit. Wow. Don't do it. One of your great cast members, the fantastic, the incredible Vince Vaughn, who I just think the world of, he gave me a great note once when I was trying to improvise doing a job with him. We've done a couple of movies together.

He was doing something genius, and then I said something, and he just stopped. He just looked at me and said, do you think that's helping? And I thought it was part of the dialogue, right? The improv. But it was out of character. It was Vince saying to Jason, shut your mouth and let me do my thing. And it was a good note. What a gut punch. But Larry, thanks for being here today. Hey, Larry.

Wait a second, Sean, do you have an agenda you're trying to get to? No, I just want to ask him a question. I haven't even gotten to the point yet that I feel so bummed out. Yeah, because I would have loved that environment so much. Larry, it's not over yet. It's not over. Larry, I'm going to fucking...

I mean, I've run into Gary on the... To Larry on the golf course. I keep calling him Gary. That's why. I run into him on the golf course. Maybe that had something to do with it. I've run into Larry on the golf course before and I've never been able to say it except for the one time when he asked me where I haven't been on. I was like, man, I really wish... And it is one of my true regrets. I was like, that's an environment I feel like I would have really... You would have done great. Because I like to fuck around. But anyway, so Larry, welcome to the podcast. Welcome to our show. How do you feel...

Scale of 1 to 10, how do you feel today about being here right now? Before I ever do anything, any show ever, I always regret that I said yes. Yes. And I feel that way today. We're going to get you to the other side of that by the time we're done. Okay, I hope so. Or not. But are you good about saying no, or are you terrible? Do you say yes because you don't want to displease people? No, I'm good about saying no. Yeah, good. That's a great quality. Oh, that's good. I mean...

Will, we had a friend who told us once, look, if you don't want to do it tomorrow, right? If someone says, in a few months, and you're like, sure, yeah. The better thing, if you don't want to do it tomorrow, say no today. Yeah. Even if it's a couple months in the future. Larry, can we go back, Sean? Can I grab the reins here for a second? Sure, sure. I kind of want to,

I know that you were a stand-up back in New York. You started sort of as a stand-up, right? And I know this from... Yeah. I got kind of a history of you through our mutual friend Jim Valli, the great Jim Valli, who I adore. The great Jim Valli. He lived in my building. And he lived in your building. In New York. I remember him telling you stories. And when Tannis' daughter was little, and Jim was kind of a stay-at-home dad in a lot of ways, right? Yeah. And he would talk about you living in the building at Manhattan Plaza, right? Yeah.

Right. What was that like, being a stand-up back then? Like, what was your kind of... What were your ambitions when you were doing that back in those days, living in Manhattan Plaza and being a... Did you want to be the world's greatest stand-up? I did want to... I wanted to be a great stand-up. Yeah. I wasn't. But I wanted to be one. Yeah. And I really would have settled if you had told me in 1987...

and you offered me $200 a week to do stand-up in New York at the clubs, $200 a week for the rest of your life, I would have taken it. Wow. Wow. We have an offer for you. I had no...

I had no hopes to do anything. Well, but what about, but you said, Sean said in the intro that you studied history to be a professor? No. No. No, just to get out of college. And that was world history or American history? Both. Will loves himself some world history. I took history. I dropped out of college, but I was a history major and I love history. I read mainly history.

Yeah, I wasn't interested in show business. Right. Really? Yeah. But dad, parents, Jewish, by the way, both sides or just your father? It's a both, yeah. It's both. You sound so disappointed. I know. You know, if you would have split it up, I don't think it would have been the worst thing in the world. If you would have given me half and half,

I admire the halves, you know? Sometimes somebody will tell me he's a half, and I'll go, oh, that's great, that's great. So were either one of them particularly funny or funny enough for you to feel like, oh, maybe I'll be a stand-up? I got it kind of in my genes. No. No. No. My mother was funny without...

trying to be funny without realizing she was being funny. - Right. - She had a kind of a Gracie Allen quality about her. In fact, my friends called my mother Gracie. But it wasn't purposeful. - Right. - She wasn't cracking wise. - Right. And we will be right back. And now, back to the show. After college, you were in the Army Reserve? - Yeah, 'cause Vietnam was going on. I didn't wanna go, you know, I didn't wanna go. And I signed up for the reserves.

And so-- - And never got drafted? - No, I never got drafted. But I got out of the reserves after two years with a psychiatric discharge. - Oh, Larry. - Let's hear more about that. - Yeah. - Oh, I told this, I told this, I think, on Howard Stern. It's kind of a long story, but should I make a long story short? - No, you can, we have a 45 minutes and a different audience. - We've got a completely different audience. Yeah. If you're smart, this is the last answer you'll give.

So good. Work the clock, Larry. Tell us. By the way, just make it up anyway. We're not going to check.

No, I was in the Army, the Reserves. I went to basic training. It was horrendous. It was the worst experience of my life. I was ducking under live ammunition and firing weapons. Jumping over walls. I had bayonets. And so I did that for eight weeks. And then I had occupational specialty school. I was a petroleum storage specialist there.

What? And then we had to, yeah, well, you have to fill up the tanks with gas. Sure, sure. Somebody has to do it. So then after I got out, I had to go to meetings once a month.

at Floyd Bennett Field, a big airplane hangar, and it was freezing, and I had to go home, and I stayed at my parents' apartment in Brooklyn. I stayed with them for Friday night and Saturday night, and then I'd go home back to New York on Sunday. But the meetings were Saturday and Sunday, and then I heard about a psychiatrist who was writing letters to

to get people out. - Sure. - So I borrowed $250. I went to see the psychiatrist. I convinced him that I was insane. He wrote me a letter saying I was insane. - Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You gotta, well, stop there. How do you convince him you're insane? What was your flavor? - My flavor was I wanted to kill myself. - Okay. - Oh my gosh. - So you went in there and you really tried to be convincingly-- - Yeah, I had suicidal thoughts.

Suicidal ruminations. What was it you were trying to get rid of? What were you trying to avoid? Life was just too hard. Were you able to make yourself cry?

I was able to act. I was able to act it. Yeah, you can see it on Max right now. I think I could have fooled... I don't know if I fooled him because everybody was acting for him. But when I went to the meeting armed with the letter, now I'm really acting insane. Yeah, right. And these people who knew me for two years...

Well, because I went off into the corner. I was huddled by myself. I was looking around, acting crazy. Rocking back and forth a little bit. Good, good. Still rolling. Where's the Major? Where's the Major? I need to talk to the Major. Where's the Major? Yeah.

And so somebody, and I saw people pointing at me, talking about me. I know they were- - 'Cause you're nuts. - Like what was going on with me? And then I went to see the major and I gave him the letter and he read the letter and I'm sitting across from him acting as nutty as a fruitcake and- - You should have chewed off a corner of the letter. - Well, he had the letter. He read the letter. He asked me a couple of questions after the letter.

And then he said to me, can you drive home? Yeah. Perfect. You knew you'd done it. I knew I had him. I said, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm a good driver. I'm a good driver. That's crazy. Wow.

Now, you're not old enough to go to Vietnam. I tell you what, we could have used some of that kind of ingenuity in Vietnam. No, I'm just saying, we could have used people who had, you know, thought out, so yeah, country could have used it, Larry. I'm sure I could have made a contribution in some way. Yeah, but look at the contribution you ended up making here. Wonderful, Larry. But, Larry, now that you're here on this little Smart List thing, and we didn't get a chance to really go deep on the set when I was working with you on Curb, like,

I always want to ask you, I wanted to ask you the questions those days that we worked together, but I was too embarrassed. Like, I know you're probably sick of talking about it, but Seinfeld...

How I've always wondered, how did you and Jerry even meet? And how did that happen? Because when you make a TV show, it's so rare that the talent and the writers or the showrunners that everything kind of hooks up and everybody has the same sensibility. And it seems you and Jerry had the same sensibility. So did you know each other out? Or was that like a business like set up? We were both comedians in New York. So you knew each other. So we knew each other in New York.

He generally performed at the comic strip. I was at the improv. But we would see each other a lot. We always enjoyed each other's company. We would actually go and write together in the afternoon. He'd bring his premises, I'd bring my premises, and we'd go over them. And I had written a screenplay that somehow he had read. And then when NBC approached him about doing a show...

he came to me and asked if I'd be interested in working with him. Had you written like a half-hour script before? No. No. No.

That's why it's so damn good. It's just so different in form. But did you, so when you get into that, started writing that half-hour multicam format. Wait a second, wait a second. I did write one half-hour, I did write a half-hour pilot for Gilbert Gottfried. No kidding. Yeah, that was filmed and they didn't pick it up. That was for HBO. Oh.

Was it also sort of changing the format a bit? No? Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah, they didn't like it. But I love that my Seinfeld... Sorry, Willie. Well, I was just going to say, so I kind of want to get into this half-hour format. So you do multicam, but the way that you do Seinfeld, it's not like traditional multicam because you have...

Right. Well, at least initially you kind of would go back and forth to Jerry doing his stand-up and then you guys kind of fine-tuned that as you went, is my recollection, I guess. Right. But then... The premise of the show, the premise of the show initially was how does a comedian get his material? Right. So we would go through an episode and you would see whatever happened to him on the show, he would turn into material.

Yeah, that was that was like the idea. And then it went like after the first year, you guys, you guys tossed that, right?

I don't think after the first year. I think it was a couple of years. And then you just kind of moved it to the end. Yeah, right. But did you, again, sort of, I don't want to get too into the weeds on the format. No, go in the weeds. But we're already in the weeds. Did you enjoy, did you, I don't know, was it difficult for you writing in that format? Was it a format that you liked or that you had to get used to or that you rebelled against? No, I was...

I was okay with it. I didn't mind it at all. At one point, I said to him, I can't believe they're letting us do this. I was really surprised. Really? Yeah, I felt like, how are we getting away with this? Did you have a staff that you handpicked, or did they try to marry you with a bunch of more traditional writers, and how did that all work out? Well, for the first four shows...

I wasn't the executive producer. Yeah. They brought in someone who had experience. Sure. And who had a show on the air previously, and they brought him in, and he was my boss. Right. Yeah. And so we handed in the first couple of shows. Yeah. And then we were called into his office for notes. Uh-oh.

And he just, it was just four episodes. That note meeting, it did not go well. We just generally probably wanted to make it something a bit less specific. Esoteric probably, less esoteric? I don't know, you know, when...

They were probably going for something more traditional, something more familiar, recognizable, because you're on a major network and let's round the edges a bit. Yes. And you guys thankfully said, well, but... Because you guys famously did not start high up in the ratings. You probably figured, what? Give us a chance to grow and do our own thing. I said no to everything he said. Yeah. Right. I said, I can't do that. And then I was...

And then I quit, and they said... And then Jerry went to Castle Rock and said, look, forget it, we're going to do this or not. And so then that was... That guy didn't really participate after that. Yeah. And it was essentially my show after that. Yeah. Larry, and it should be noted...

I was a fan of Jerry's. I saw him when I was like 17. My buddies got me for my birthday to go see Jerry play in Toronto in a theater. Yeah. And I was a really big fan of his stand-up. And so when you guys started the show, I watched the first season. I had just moved to New York.

It was the fall of 90, right? When you guys came on the air? I think that's right. Or summer, maybe? The summer. Summer of 90, yeah. The pilot came on in the summer of 89 and then the first four shows came on in June of 90. Yeah. Wow, that's so crazy. And so...

So crazy. And it was the Seinfeld Chronicles, as everybody knows, right? Yeah, the first season, yeah. First season. Or just the pilot, I think. I think it was just the pilot. Oh, was it? I don't remember, yeah. And I seem to remember, I think we talked about this maybe when Jerry was on, that the budget for the show at NBC came out of late night.

-Right? -Yeah. That initially it was Rick Ledwin who-- I think Variety. -Oh, Variety. Variety, yeah. -Yeah. And right-- Was it--

Rick Ludman. Yeah, one of the greats. He championed the show. Great dude. The show wouldn't have gotten on the air if not for him. I love that. And by the way, while you were on Seinfeld, you had both your daughters or just one daughter? No, both. Both, wow. And did you bring them around? Were they interested? No, they were babies. No, I know, but when they got older?

When they got older, it was off the air. First of all, don't... Sean, you stupid son of a bitch. I thought they were like... Sean, take a time out. Real quick. Did the show do well with babies? Sean, the show went off in 98. My daughter, Cassie, was born in 94. Oh, okay. And Romy was born in 96. First of all, calm down. Second of all. Larry, how did you guys do with toddlers? Did you guys get a lot of toddlers? Oh, yeah.

But Larry, Curb, correct me, has been on longer than Seinfeld was? Curb has been on for 24 years. 24 years. Isn't that amazing? Not consecutively. No, not consecutively. You take like 10 years off. But when we started, we started. Holy shit. Wait, I want to go into Curb more because like how did you come up with the...

Being there, I was like, "Oh, this is how this works." You get a little outline for my sister Tracy who doesn't understand. It's not written like, say, Seinfeld was. It's all improvised like we were talking at the beginning of this episode.

But how did you... The story outline. The story outline, yeah. So you have to hit those points. But it's so fun because you spend an hour just improvising one scene and then you cut out the fat in the editing room and you have all great stuff. It's such a great format. So who thought of that and why did you think of that? I heard once, because when you and I did The Three Stooges, you said to me, I hate memorizing lines. Yeah. Well, it was... Seinfeld had ended and I was thinking about...

what I was going to do next. And Jeff Garlin had an office at Castle Rock and Jeff Garlin had an office next door. And he said to me, what are you going to do now? I said, I'm thinking about going back to stand-up. And he said, well, you should film it.

- And then I thought about, oh, well, what is that gonna be? Filming it, that sounds intrusive. I don't know. What are they, the camera's gonna follow me into a dry cleaner? I could understand. I could see how it's gonna be on stage. That could be somewhat interesting to see the growth of the act.

- Right. - From beginning to end. But offstage, I didn't like the idea of filming myself, cameras following me around. I didn't feel I'm all that interesting to follow. And so I thought maybe if I wrote some fictitious stories, that we could do that around the standup. The standup could be real, but the offstage stuff would be just stuff I made up. And so that's what I did. I wrote an outline.

I made Jeff my manager. Cheryl auditioned. She was my wife. Yeah. We had kids in the first special, because that's what it was. It was a special. It wasn't a pilot. Yeah. It was just a one-off special. Right. We got it. And did you get it? Or should I repeat it one more time? I just can't wait to hear what happened to the kids.

Well, I didn't really want to see the kids, I realized, after the special. Sure would you. How did you off the children? I just pretended the first show never existed. Never happened. That's the best way to do it. I love shit like that. You never need to fucking explain it. No, no, no. You don't need to explain everything, right? I love that. Just fucking changed it.

I didn't want kids in the show. No, who does? I just thought the show would be so much funnier without kids. I didn't want to deal with kids. I didn't want to keep having to explain, what about the kids? Where are the kids? Are the kids okay? Who's watching the kids? I didn't want to have to keep justifying everything that was going on and having to explain where the kids were. Kids aren't funny. Kids aren't funny. Hey, the other thing is, Larry, do you think... God, you did something really genius, which is...

You were able to play this version of yourself, if you will, and you get to sort of be cranky and say whatever you want. And has it...

It must have-- God, I'm so envious. It just bled into your real life that you're able to now-- 'cause people just buy it and they're like, "Oh, it's just Larry being Larry. He's, like, from the show." And now you can just-- you can go to a gas station and give a guy the finger and, like, people will laugh, "See you later!" Or scream at the slow group in front of you. Yeah, you can do whatever the fuck you want on this planet. I mean, I don't know about the planet, but, like, the west side of L.A. and Manhattan, you could do whatever the fuck you want. It's true. It's made my life-- It's made my life so much better.

Jesus fucking Christ. Now I'm jealous. I'm really getting heated now when I realized this fucking carte blanche. You literally printed yourself a carte blanche to say whatever the fuck you want in the places that we... And people are disappointed if I'm not that way. I know. People are like, fuck, the guy paid his bill and he didn't tell me to go fuck myself. I mean, what am I doing wrong? He must hate me. You're making the people happy by you being cranky. It's so great. Yeah.

But do you notice that, honestly, that you get some stuff out there as this sort of this other version of yourself, and then your real life actually ends up being a little bit more placid and less dramatic? I haven't noticed that, but it is acting and doing that Larry David on the show. Yeah. It is...

so much fun, first of all, and kind of a little cathartic in a way. I know what you mean. A little cathartic in a way. Way to couch it. I mean, when you're talking, obviously, it's the fucking greatest. You get to say all these horrible things. By the way, how about... I wasn't even going to bring this up, but it just hit me. Marjorie Taylor Greene, first of all, she said she was watching Curb Your Enthusiasm, which is already kind of... Oh, you watched the show. And then she got upset because...

She thought you painted people in her state or in the South as racist or whatever. I'm paraphrasing, so I don't know her words. But weren't you kind of blown away that she even watches your show? I was pretty surprised by it. Yeah. But...

It was just about a law that exists in that state. Right, exactly. Where you can't give people water or food or whatever when they're in line voting. Yeah, or when you're in to vote. It's outrageous. It's so good. It's so unbelievable. It's so stupid. It's so great. Yeah, I remember when I heard about that law, I wrote it down in my notebook. And then...

I knew I was going to... You had to use that at some point. The whole season is kind of around that, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, it's great. So then, Larry, so the show has had this incredible, long, successful run. You've brought it to this beautiful conclusion. I'm not going to ask you what's next, but I would imagine that you're good, right? You've worked your nards off for...

however many years at a really high level accomplished probably 10 times what you thought you would accomplish. Um, you feel satisfied. Uh, are there areas in your life that you would love to try to find equal success in, um, or, or other areas of the business or, or different industries? Um,

- No. - You're good. You're all set. - Any other industries you want to get into? - I'd love to be an offensive coordinator for an NFL team. - Okay. - That would be my dream job. - Very offensive coordinator? - But truly, you do love football and specifically, do you know about plays and all that stuff? - No, I don't know anything about it, but I feel like I'd be good at it. Yeah. Yeah, I know nothing.

But I feel like if I studied it, if somebody took me under their wing, I feel like in a year or two, I could design, I feel I could design great plays. It's a creative endeavor, really, when you think about it. From what I understand, if you just play Madden, you really learn quite a bit. So maybe try that. Get yourself a PlayStation. Oh, really? Oh, no, I've never done that.

Could you imagine Larry David on the field just calling shots? Yeah. Throwing his headset? With the little headset? Yeah. Screaming into that thing? I honestly feel I could do it. You'd just be yelling, like, just throw it and then catch it. How hard is that? And what team would that be? Would that be the Giants or the Jets?

- Well, you know, I'm a Jet fan. I'm also a Giant fan, but I'm more Jets than Giants. When Joe Namath came in in 1965, I really took to him and so I became a Jet fan. - Larry, you know, when we were working together, I asked you the same kind of thing Jason was asking. I'm like, "Why are you ending? Why are you stopping the show?" And you just said, "Look at me, I'm 76 years old."

Look at me. What do you mean? You're in incredible shape. I know the way you take care of yourself. You eat great. You exercise. You're out there every day. 76. When's your birthday, by the way?

Quick. July 2nd. Do you hate, by the way, do you hate birthdays? You hate holidays? Well, I hate, you know, it becomes a job returning the birthday emails and the texts. I agree. It's a bit of a job. So, yeah, I don't like it. I really don't like it. You know what I don't like is when people sing happy birthday to me. I don't know what to do. It's the worst, like, minute and a half. All you can do is make a face and shake your head. Yeah. It's a weird...

Wait, what about all the other holidays? I get the birthday thing. It becomes a job. I detest all holidays. Detest them. Not one. Not one. There's not one holiday that I like. Wait, what about... I particularly hate... I hate Halloween. I hate Thanksgiving. Right. I hate Christmas. Christmas.

New Year's I can stand because I know that the whole thing's going to be over soon after that night. Yeah, but you've got to stay up late. You hate the staying up late. No, I haven't stayed up. I haven't stayed up past 12 in 15 years. Yeah. Why Halloween? Because you've got to dress up. The costumes, the kids, the bothering, you know. You're knocking on the door. By the way, my house is...

My house is in darkness on Halloween. Of course it is. All the lights are out. Nobody knocks on the door. We put a sign out that says, sorry, no candy every single year. Larry, you could probably get away with putting a sign that said, go fuck yourself and people would fucking adore you for it.

They'd fucking build you a goddamn monument. I'm still really grinding on this over here. I remember I've seen you at Conan's Christmas party a couple times. Yeah, I've been. And it's great. Do you like going to parties? Well, that's kind of like, it's not a dinner party, but they served great food and stuff. But I imagine you don't like to sit down at dinner parties, or do you? The thing about the dinner party is you don't know who's going. That's right.

And that's what really bothers me about it, that it's such a fucking secret as to who you're inviting. And then you show up, oh, you're here. Oh, hello. Who needs that? Tell me who's going and I'll see if I want to go. Why can't I know?

I should have a chance to educate my decision about the way I'm going to spend my night. Exactly. And all of a sudden, then you're spending two and a half hours with a stranger you've got nothing to say to them. Like if you're not going to go to the beach, you're going to look at the weather, and if the weather's rainy, you're not going to fucking go for two and a half hours, right? Exactly. I don't get it. I don't get it. So a couple of weeks ago,

Yeah. I was invited, and I asked. I said, who's going to be there? All right. And offense was taken. Sure. Okay. And...

I didn't go. Good. Smart. Because you found it because they told you? They told you? No, they didn't tell me. Okay. Do you throw dinner parties? Me? Yeah. Have I ever said, let's have a dinner party? Or let's say you have six, seven, eight people over. Would you then tell the other people who's coming? Yes. Yes. Exactly. Yeah.

You know, I'm golden ruling it. Yeah, I'm not trying to trick people over to my house. Yeah, exactly, yeah. I'm golden ruling it. I'm doing unto them as I want them to do unto me. I'm with you on that. I get kind of offended that these guys know, like, if you invite me to a one-year-old's birthday party, I'm fucking mad. I'm like, don't invite me to a one-year-old's birthday party. That's outrageous. I'll go one step further. Don't invite me to your wedding.

Don't remind me you're wedding on a weekend in the summer? The bar mitzvah is even worse than the wedding. No, but my kids go to the bar mitzvahs because that's where all the makeouts happen. Yeah, just the service. Yeah, you just come to the service, not the party. Anything to do with it. They're just intolerable, top to bottom. Oh, and you got to bring a check. Yeah. We'll be right back. All right, back to the show.

So I wrote a bunch of like, I want to do like a speed thing with you because I wrote, what, you hate that? You're going to introduce a new format here? Just one word answers? You think Larry wants to do the speed thing? We've never done a speed. Why are you doing it for Larry? Terrible idea. Terrible. Make Larry the monkey. Oh, Sean's upset. Okay, Sean, do one speed thing. One. Go ahead. He's worked on it with Scotty all weekend. No, no, no.

Let's hear it. No, no, no. This is going to be fun. No, it's not. It's going to be horrible now. What about a stage story, Larry? What about when he went to Broadway? Oh, there you go. Let's do that. How about that, Sean? Larry, I saw your show on Broadway. You didn't see mine. I loved it, though. If I had been in New York when it was on, I definitely would have got it.

Well, I was going to fly to New York. Yes. I flew to New York to see yours. Who asked you to? I didn't tell you to do that. I would have dissuaded you. I would have said, are you nuts? I don't want you to come. That's what I would have told you. And you should have told me the same thing. Like a good friend. Yep. Now tell me, I did see that show and you were fucking great in it. That's it. So nice of you to say that. Wait, which one was this? Bring it back down. Which show? It's a good one.

Something with fishes. It's fishes. I'm on the fish. It was called Fish in the Dark. Fish in the Dark. Fish in the Dark. Yeah. But I thought it was great, and you told me that you didn't love the experience of eight shows a week. No. Did you not know that that's what you were getting into? I'm not shocked by that. How'd that sneak up on you, Larry? Yeah.

I don't know. It was the dumbest decision I've ever made in my life. Have you spoken to that agent since? It was my fault. I'm the one who agreed to it. It was my fault. I didn't write it to be in it. Right. I got talked into it by the producer. Wow. And you hated it. How long was that run? The first show was February 4th. The last show was June 9th in 2015. Wow.

Wow. Wow. So 144 performances. How many months is that? February, March, April, May. Yeah, it's five months. You think that? Sorry. February, March, April, May. Four and a half. Uh-huh. Sean, how many did you do of Goodnight Oscar? Six months. Oh, no. I did five months in New York and three months in, or two or three months in New York. But how many performances? He knows his number. He knows his number. You don't know. I don't know. How many shows did you do a week? Seven. Seven.

Oh. Yeah. That's better than eight. I couldn't sell the eight one. I got a moment to rest for a second. One less. Yeah. But you had a heavy lift in that. You were driving the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. And you hated it. Never again. It was boring. Doing the same stuff over night after night after night, I found it boring. Do you have any funny stories? Didn't you get hurt once? Did you lose your voice ever? No, I don't have any funny stories. Okay, good. Did you... I did notice that the... Great question, though, Sean. Thanks. That...

It becomes so rote and no, there's no creativity at all after you do the first 10. Right. You're just doing the same thing over and over again. It's kind of fun though to find new things that you, to try new things that are so small that make the scene better. Okay. I tried something new once. Yeah. Oh, I guess you do. And I got so thrown by it. Uh oh.

The whole system broke down, and I forgot the next line. Yeah. Oh, no. I looked a different way. Instead of looking to the right, I looked to the left, and all of a sudden, it all went askew. How'd you get back on track? Did somebody whisper something from the wings? No, I realized where I was finally, but...

That was the last time I tried anything different. Yeah, exactly. I was doing a play and this guy was carrying a briefcase in one hand and right before we went out, we went out at the same time. He said, God, my hand hurts from carrying the briefcase the same way. I go, you should switch hands.

He goes, oh. I go, but don't do it tonight. He goes, no, I'll do it. We walked out and he forgot every line. Oh my God. Yeah, that's exactly the story. Exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah, I got it. I understand. That's wild. Right, those neural pathways are dug so deep based on what... Larry, what do you do when you're not doing your show anymore and you're not doing stand-up? What do you...

I know you like to play golf, but is there anything else that you like to do that you have any sort of...

stupid hobbies or anything that you do to occupy your time that people wouldn't know? No, not really. No, nothing. What, do you watch TV? What, do you got cable news on? I do what everybody else does. I read, I watch TV. These guys don't read. No, I don't read. Do you read nonfiction? Are you rereading stuff about world wars and things like that? Or you like romance novels?

Romance novels? Yeah, you know, I've had fun. Do you read any spy novels? You get into that shit and anything like that? I read a great book about the spies in England. I forgot the name of it.

Sorry. I apologize. I'm so sorry. We'll be cutting this, right? We'll cut that. I probably read it. So I love at the beginning of this interview, you were like, I kind of regret being here. And then my next question was going to be, well, what else would you be doing? And apparently the answer is nothing. Nothing.

I'd be reading crime novels. He'd rather be doing nothing than talking to us. I'd love that. Before we let you go there, I have this very quick, funny little thing that happened between me and you. I'd love to get you to your speed round, though. No, it's too late. It was going to be hysterical, but that's too bad. So listen, it's the I Love You story outside of HBO. I don't know if you remember this. I asked you to do a show a long time ago called

that I was producing and you graciously declined because you're not afraid to say no. And then I didn't see you for like a year or something. And then I was at the HBO building and I was waiting for an elevator.

I was in the elevator in the first movie, and I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry." I was like, "I'm sorry

I said, you know, you don't have to ever worry about anything like that, Larry. You know, it's no big deal. And don't worry about it. And you said, okay. And I said, I love you. And then you said, yeah, I don't do that. I don't do that. I'm not going to say that. And then I laughed. And you walked away. And like two minutes later, we said goodbye. And way in the distance, you were getting your car. And I was still at the elevator. And you go, I love you, Sean.

You

You old softy. I thought that was real sweet. Yeah. Let's cut that too. Okay, great. Sweet Larry. Sweet Larry. Larry, listen. We don't want that out in the public. No. We're going to let you go. Sean, real quick. Real quick speed round, Sean. Real quick, go. Fucking go. Wait, let me see where they are now. I've got to find them. Here we go. Oh, it's on a computer? Did you AI this? I wrote them down last night. What is it? This is like a Rorschach thing? No, I don't know what that is.

I don't know who that is. Would you rather be subjected to someone showing you pictures of their kids for an entire afternoon or lose a foot?

Do you ever pick up at dinner? No, that's not. Do you ever watch Shark Tank, by the way? It's a very good question. But of course I need the foot. You need the foot. I couldn't play golf without the foot. No, you can't. Oh, would you rather wear only uncomfortable shoes whenever you go outside or comfortable shoes 24 hours a day and can't ever take them off?

You can never take the shoes off? You mean even when you're sleeping? Yeah, showering, swimming, things like that. Now listen, what about this one? Would you rather live without the internet or live without air conditioning and heating? Easily. That's such an easy question. What do you think?

I'd rather live without the air conditioning. I'd rather live without the internet, even without the air conditioning. I hate the internet. What's something that you just recently realized that you were embarrassed you didn't realize earlier? What's that? It's bad. What would the world be like if it was filled with male and female copies of you?

That's the last one. I think it would be a much better place. Much better. Wow. There you go. That's the only one we're keeping. Good answer. Larry David, you're the sweetest. I had the best time with you on your show. Thank you for being on this show. It's too short. It's too short. Curb your enthusiasm. The final, is it called The Final Frontier? What's the name? Is there like a subtitle? No, it's just true. I don't think so. I think it's called That's Enough. That's Enough. That's Enough. That's Enough.

Yeah. I like that. That would be nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's very good. Yeah.

I'm looking for Sean. I'm really looking forward to people seeing you on, on curb. Cause you're fantastic in it. Well, thank you. Thank you for having me. I loved it. It was so fun. Boy, we had, we had some good laughs. Will and I are happy to be involved in any of the reshoots. Promotion. We'll just do promo. We'll just do the junket. Yeah. Hey guys, this wasn't, this wasn't as awful as I thought it was going to be. Hey, thanks man. That's one of the best reviews we've ever had.

Did you have more fun here or on Morning Joe? I was so excited when I saw you on my favorite show, Morning Joe. Was it great? I'm so jealous you were on that set. Yeah, they're great. I want to go over there and say hi to those guys. Do you still golf there? Oh, yeah. You do? Not today. It's rainy. Too wet today. Do you see these guys there ever? We've played. I do. I see them out there. Yeah. We're going to play together one day. I'm off until October.

I'm around. I played over at your club the other day for the Pro-Am they did. Yeah, I don't even get invited to that. Is that true? Will just went ahead and won it. Come on. He won it. He won the Pro-Am on Wednesday. What? Yeah, he had three birdies. My team did. Yeah, I did have three birdies. Who did you play with? I played with Sebastian Maniscalco. And who else did I play with? And with Jeff Azoff. Who was your pro? With Sam Burns.

Wow, really? Yeah. And he was great. Sam Burns went low that day. And Jeff Azov is great, as you know. He plays at your club. He's terrific. He's a club champ. And then Sebastian, forget about it. And then, I mean, just to put it in terms that he would understand. He's so funny. Don't you find it curious that I'm not invited to play in that pro-am? I find it very curious. How are you not invited to play at the pro-am? It's your own club, and you're a huge star. And then I'm there. Fucking ding-dong. Yeah.

Canadian asshole. Canadian moron gets invited. How are you not? They're trying to go international. Anyway, well, Larry, we'll get out and play someday. That'd be good. And I'll show you around your own club and where to hit it and stuff, you know. What's your index? A terrible 10.8.

Oh, you're not terrible. You're much better than I am. No, you're right around there, Larry. No, no, I'm not. This Bateman character. Bateman, you know, he shot a 70 at Bel Air two weeks ago. Wow. Can you believe that? Scared the shit out of me. 70. Wow. That was the last round I played, and I won't play again until October. Is that so? Where are you going? Yeah, I'll probably shoot 105. Just working, you know. I'm still out here humping, you know, trying to dance as fast as I can. Wow.

He's going to New York to work. He's back here this week. What are you doing in New York? I'm doing some crime drama thingamabob. That's why I'm growing out all this crap, beard and hair and all this nonsense. What are you playing, a cop? I'm playing a loser, right? Look how I'm doing. Yeah, wow. You didn't need to grow out the hair and the beard for that, dude. Hey! You know what I mean? Yeah.

Larry, I miss you. I'd love to have at least some food with you soon. Please say hi to Ashley. You're very nice to be doing this today with us. That was very kind of you. Very, very cool. I don't know what to say to that. We're big fans.

It should be, and I know you hate it, and not to embarrass you, you've done so much great stuff in your career, and for guys like me, and I can speak for these guys, it's a thrill. Honestly, you're such a funny guy, you're such a funny writer, such a funny performer, and it's inspiring to be totally honest. Again, not to put you on the spot, you don't have to respond, but it's great, and we look up to people like, you know,

to you and what you do. I think it's awesome. What you do is not easy. One of my faves. Inspiring. You make it look very easy. Truly. And people need to know that it is not easy. They'll say, oh, he's playing himself. Guess what, guys? Not simple. Incredibly talented. And I know it's not. Thank you. And sometimes it's not cool and comedy to pay those kinds of compliments or whatever, but it is true and you are definitely an inspiration. So thank you for all the awesome stuff you've done. Well, you're very, very nice to say that. I wish I could take it in. Yeah.

No, I know. You don't have to. You'll think about it again right when you're going to bed tonight. A little grin. A little thought bubble. All right, guys. See you. Thank you. Take care, pal. Larry, love you. Larry? Larry? Larry? I love you! There it is. You got it.

He's great. I think I really do love that man. I just love being around him. Yeah, his deepest, darkest secret is that he's a sweetheart. I know. Such a sweetheart. Yeah. I met his wife. Jay, you know his wife, Ashley? Tiny bit, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I met her once. She's so sweet. I only met her one time. Yeah, they're a lot of fun. I like them a lot. Yeah, he's so, he's, you know, like Will was saying, it's like he's one of the greats, you know?

And that show's been on for 20, what did he say, four years, 20-some years? I really, honestly, genuinely would love to be on a set with him. That would be really, really rewarding. So fun. But I missed my chance. I've got to cast him in something. He'll do other stuff. He'll do other stuff. Maybe this was it. Maybe this was us working together. This was the beginning and the end of it. He legit did say that. How come you're never on? And I was like, well, it's your show. You never asked me, so. Yeah.

Do you ever say that when somebody comes up to you and asks to be on Smart List and you say, yeah, why haven't we had you on yet? And meanwhile, you're thinking, we're not going to have him on. Yeah. Yeah, it happens. I guess. It's tough. I know. It's tough to hear the truth, I guess. But he has his legacy or like he can always say he has one of the greatest shows ever.

In the history of American television. Two of the greatest shows. And he's only done two. Well, except for the Gottfried failed pilot, I guess. But we won't talk about that. You just brought it up. Well, but he's not even two for three because it was just a pilot, never aired, you know?

So he's at 60%. Now he's at 66%. I guess a second ago he was batting 1,000. And now he's still Hall of Fame. Only been on two television shows, and they're both probably in the top ten ever in the history of television. Well, three. The Gilbert Gottfried thing.

I know he is so incredible. He's so fucking incredible. And I do mean it. Apart from that, not only did he write himself licensed to do what he wants, right? In terms of his behavior and being as cranky as he wants in a way that is really, you know, invokes a lot of jealousy in me. But also he got, you know, paid really handsomely to do that.

I don't think so. I think the story is that he deferred all the money because he just likes, he just did it for the art. He never cashed those checks? Did not get a dollar from Seinfeld. No kidding. Wow. Yeah, he just loved it. Didn't talk about it. No kidding. Somebody about that. Yeah, we should call him back. Yeah, I just loved it. You know, no, seriously, somebody told me that and they promised me that they are aware of this information and they can prove it because they have an alibi.

Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbico, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Armjarff.

Guys, Jason had to scoot very quickly and apologize this profusely for not being here for this little thing that we're about to do, which we're really excited about. He's missing the party. He's missing the fun. He's missing the party. He does feel really, really bad. Yeah. But we have a couple guests with us today for a super quick plug for a new SmartList media show called Pretty Sure I Can Fly. We can't wait for the show. We're super pumped. One of the hosts is a friend of the podcast. He's been on before and actor-filmmakers made us laugh for literally years.

And his partner in crime is a woman who we haven't had the pleasure of meeting yet. Sorry, and figuratively years. And figuratively years. You said literally years. And figuratively years. But literally years. At least me. And a woman who we haven't had the pleasure of meeting yet who will be a friend of the show after this little chat and giggle. She's a brilliant writer and produced one of the all-time greats, This American Life. Love that show. Willie, let's say hello to Johnny Knoxville and Elna Baker. Okay, I'm going to say hello. Hello.

Hello. Well, hello. Hi. Hi, guys. This is so exciting that you're here. Tell us about the show. I can't wait. I mean, I know about it, but tell everybody else about it. It's, uh, it's...

It's a show about people with more balls than a bowling alley. Sure. It's people who achieve great things while thumbing their nose at naysayers, established thought, failure, personal safety, and gravity. Yeah, I love that. I love, like, the press release that says, for people who have done things that have never been done until someone did them. Yeah. Yeah.

That's pretty good writing, huh? Yeah, it's pretty good. And I will say, Knoxville, you've got some history with this. You've obviously spent some time in between, you know, over the years doing shit that other people won't do, stuff that seems really scary and gnarly. Yeah. So I can see it. But, Elna, how much of an appetite do you have for doing shit that you're not, you didn't think...

People could do yeah, I mean to an extent. I mean I grew up Mormon, so I wasn't allowed to do anything and So like for me, I guess it wasn't like being brave in terms of like jumping off a cliff But it was like leaving a religion giving hand jobs like there were you know there were the things that I that was the first thing Wow That's why I joined

Well, that's what led you to leave, ultimately, one of the things, right? You were 28? Yes, I left at 20. I touched a penis for the first time at 28. Is that true? 28? That is true, yeah. And was touching the penis the thing that opened the... Yes, it was. That was the gateway? Penis was the gateway drug? The penis was the gateway, yeah. Wow. When did you have your first coke?

Like Coca-Cola? Otherwise she was going to say 8 a.m. I know. I was like a... We were the kind of Mormons who drank Coca-Cola, but I didn't have my first coffee until I was 28. And I remember like being so afraid to order it just because I didn't know how to say the word. Wait, so everything happened at 28? Everything, because I left at 28. Yeah, once I touched a dick, I was, you know... Yeah, tell me about it. Sean... Yeah, tell me about it. Catholicism, same thing. So wait, um...

Do you still have family members in the church? Everyone, yeah. Everyone is still a woman. Do you have a good relationship? Decent, yeah, great, yeah. Johnny, what about you? Well, it started with decent. I mean, I'd love to dig into that a little bit. You open with decent. I'm going to take you word on it. I realize they might hear this. Wonderful relationship.

By the way, if they're listening to this, then they're lapsed, and then they're just as guilty as you are, and now the playing field is level. Yeah. But, Johnny, what denomination did you grow up in? Catholicism? Oh, Southern Baptist. It was intense. Oh, that's right. I knew that. Yeah. That's right. Was it hardcore? Well, it... I didn't realize how intense it was at the time, but...

You know, it's not like the Pentecostals who handle snakes, but, you know, in Southern Baptist, you're not supposed to dance or, you know, but my parents didn't believe in, they weren't that strict, so...

But if you hit the Pentecostals, they could maybe be on an episode of Pretty Sure I Can Fly because if they're handling snakes... Oh, yeah. There you go. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying being so repressed makes you want to go take these risks later on. Oh, totally. I mean, that's one of the things that, like, I love about interviewing the different people we've interviewed is, like...

Remember the sports writer telling me that like all the greatest athletes had some primal wound that and that thing that happened in their childhood is what makes them like Achieve or even try for sure and so many of these people that we've talked to like you find out Oh like, you know, Manny Pug who you know, you've seen on Jackass and who Johnny knows like I had no idea that like his father was killed by a firing squad in Cuba like

Like the origins of what made him do these insane, brave things came from like something really deep and real. Or like Garrett McNamara, who's the 100-foot wave guy. He was learning about his child. It's bonkers. Like he basically like at one point his mother was this hippie, but she put him in this cult.

A lot of cults. A lot of cults, but the sort of the most memorable. He was in many cults? Many cults, but the one they had to renounce all their possessions. He and his brother had to wear bed sheets. They just walked around. They had to beg for everything. They couldn't buy anything.

And it was just so humiliating to be walking the streets in Berkeley in these outfits begging for things. That's amazing. And these backstories are like what get them to do these things. Yeah, it's incredible. Johnny, have any of these stories inspired you to try something? Well, I'm a little, you know, I'm a little slow on the uptake. So I'm trying to not do things anymore. I'm trying to overcome my, you know,

Addiction to put yourself in dangerous situations? It did become an addiction. It must. Was there a thing, was there like a common...

that you noticed in a lot of these people that you... Other than the childhood, a lot of them came from difficult childhoods. Anything else that gave you that fearlessness? I think the... Yeah, it's... If there's a through line for people on the show, it's bravery and being colorful. And...

These people are extremely determined. Yeah. Very determined. Wow. And usually, I mean, like, it's complicated though, right? Because, like, you're talking about, like, adrenaline junkies, right? Right, right, right. Some are. Some, like, get in and then kind of become addicted and then they're trying to accomplish something great, but they're also, like, putting their... I mean, you're a perfect example, Johnny. Like, you...

Put your life on the... Yeah, you kept putting your life on the line and then ultimately, like, suffered a traumatic brain injury. So, like, there's this level at which, like, you're on the razor's edge of, like, admiring and also being like, you guys should stop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sean wants to know, I'm just asking, because I don't want to embarrass... He doesn't want to embarrass himself. Can you get a traumatic brain injury from watching TV every night? You can, but it's... But, like...

But look at me. I'm still here. Hey, Sean, have you seen 100-Foot Wave, by the way? No. You have to watch this. And it's by that guy, Garrett McNamara. I definitely told you about it. I'm writing it down right now. Watching what these big wave surfers do, not just Garrett, but all those guys...

When I see those guys going, when they're like, man, there's a storm coming to Portugal, to Nazarene. We got to get there. We've got 48 hours. We need to get there because there's a fucking crazy storm. And I need to get on a surfboard and have a dude tow me in behind a ski-do so I can get on the storm waves. And I'm thinking like, I'm looking for the closest restaurant that's got a happy hour. I was just going to say.

I want to make sure. You know, what do they have on draft? I'm looking for the next Harry Potter movie. Yeah, man. You know, crazy. But yeah, that's insane. So are you guys, is it fun? Have you guys been having a good time? Like, is it like, it's got to be fascinating to learn all these stories. They sound incredible. It's so fascinating. Yeah, I mean, just talking to Ty Stokes, who is on the Jamaican founding member of the Jamaican bobsled team, the real story behind that team is,

is so much more interesting than the movie. Cool Runnings? Yeah. Cool Runnings butchered it. Like the actual story. Now you're telling me that the Disney movie Cool Runnings that was trying to capitalize on the Jamaican bobsled team, it wasn't true. I'm sorry to take this away from you. Really? That's great. Cool story? Oh, it's an insane story.

He got put on this team like a mere months before the Olympics started. They didn't have a bobsled. They didn't have a bobsled track. They'd never been on ice.

Yeah, they didn't have a place to train. They didn't even get to go down a bobsled down the... What do you call it? The hill or whatever? The track. Like, what, two or three weeks before the Olympics for the first time? Are you serious? Yeah. How did they qualify? Sean, do you know this? They ended up training for months. They trained on daiquiris. They would go...

So stupid. How do they qualify? Anyway, you know what? We're going to listen to the podcast. That's how we're going to find out. We're going to listen to it. I can't wait. It's called Pretty Sure I Can Fly. It's Johnny Knoxville and Elna Baker together again. You guys make such a great pair. The show sounds great.

So awesome. I truly can't wait to listen to it. It is available right now on whatever podcast platform you're currently listening to. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much, Johnny and Elna. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Thanks a lot. We appreciate it. We're about to play a clip from Pretty Sure I Can Fly. Follow Pretty Sure I Can Fly on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Ladies and gentlemen, Travis Pastrana.

Everybody in this house is now standing up and cheering on the 199. Go, Travis! Can you tell me the story of the double backflip? Because that to me was also, I mean, I got chills in that moment in the movie, but I would love to hear you tell me the story. There's very few times in your life where something that means so much to you means so much to you.

a group around you and even more rare that it means that much to the world. I still have, people tell me almost once a week, I get someone that still remembers where they were at that moment. You know, my grandma and all her friends watch it. It's live on TV. My mom was crying because she had known that, you know, I'm about 75% into the phone pit, but if it comes around short, there's a really good chance of a broken neck or

paralyzed or it was a really cool moment. And even up until you did it, it seemed like, was it really like, I don't know if I'm going to go through with it or not. And the reason like we were just explaining, like you always say I'm in or I'm out. The reason this was such a tough decision for me. And I think the reason that it got built up more was because I was on the fence on this. I have an opportunity to go out there and try a trick that I've been working for for three, four years.

But I'm sitting third. So I'm like, if I don't do a double backflip, I still get a medal. Yeah. I still get paid. Yeah. Which is going to really help everything else that I've been putting into rally. And is my goal to be a freestyle motocross rider or is my goal to continue on in action sports and to have a career that's going to expand hopefully longer? And it worked out in rally. And I said, you know what? I'm both.

I said, I'm going to land this trick and went out there and decided like literally last second played rock, paper, scissors with my redneck friend, Hubert. Wait, you, you, the, the deciding factor was a rock, paper, scissors. Oh my God. It came down to that. Right before I went up there, Hubert, we went rock, paper, scissors. I gave thumbs up to basically Sal and the guys and they're like, all right, they raised the ramp. And no one has ever done this before.

At that time, I had done it to a sandpile in a controlled environment. That was a big step up. So if you came up short or didn't make it, it sucked, but it was okay. Right.

Yeah. It was a hard surface that day, right? It was just blue groove. It was pretty much worst case scenario for me. We took the ramp that was already existing and then raised it on two by fours. And like, it looked like something we'd built in our backyard for like, you know, when we were five years old. And it's like, you know, my dad's out there like strapping the ramp down and trying to get it so it doesn't move because if the ramp falls over, then I'm definitely going to be

Deep. And so you're up there and you're about to go. Yeah, it was one of the coolest experiences ever. Got up there and the guy that drops me in, he gave me a thumbs up. He said, it's on you. Take your time. And I looked around.

and every single person was on their feet. Entire sold-out Staples Center. All of my heroes, you had Kevin Robinson, you had Chad Keggy. They were holding hands. I had Brian Deegan. All the militia was all down there looking. You know, it was one of the coolest experiences. And I just, I remember inside my helmet smiling, and when I dropped in, everything kind of went to slow motion. Usually...

You get a slow motion if anyone's crashed a car or been in a really bad, like where you think everything's going bad. Yeah. I've never had a slow motion where I took off and I can remember the smells. I can remember the sounds. I can remember...

everything was so vivid. And, you know, I came around on the first pole and I checked the landing. And I remember thinking, you know, as Trevor Jacobs said later, he's like, oh, you can't check. And I'm like, oh no, now I'm short. And I whip my head back and I see the lights. So when you practice this trick, you know, in the foam pit, you have, you know, you got the sky above you and then the ground. But on this day, you've got blinding lights where you can't see anything straight ahead of you. And then below you is kind of dark. And I just remember kind of

Just smiling again. I'm like, well, I'm all in. I can't get out of this now. And I came around and, like, literally hit. Couldn't have hit better. And I was just like, what the heck just happened? I dropped down and dropped the bike, and I run up, and the first person there was just some drunk guy out of the stands that just overpowered the security and gave me a big hug up top. I'm like, I don't even know you, but yes, let's go. Oh, man! Are you kidding me?

many times can you find the holy grail in one building a double from travis pastrana that was pretty cool i was at home watching it live and i it was like i had tears going down my cheeks like the end of old yeller because it was such a an amazing moment uh and so memorable uh

Yeah, I was blown away. You think that's the biggest moment of your career? Moment that the world felt what I felt.

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