"Julia Louis-Dreyfus"
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Okay, guys, so the gang said that we need to do some new intros, Sean. So do you want to take it away? We need a really good, solid intro. Go. Me? Yes, go. Hey, everybody, this is Smart List. You're listening to Smart List. Good till there. The podcast that everybody loves. And it's with Jason Bateman, me, Sean Hayes, and Will Arnett. And what happens is we bring on a guest that the other two don't know about, and it's a surprise. I'm sorry, are you in a race? Because I've never heard anybody read something so quickly. All right, it's all new Smart List. Let's go. Smart List.

Okay. Now listen, I'm going to, I'm going to cry here. So just, it's going to be tough for me to get through this, but if,

If there was a way that we could get Chumbawamba to cover a $5 foot long song from Subway in a duet with the Baja men who let the dogs out, if we could get them.

Oh, God. Are you okay? Pull it together. Will, I saw you yesterday. I spent the whole day with you. Go ahead. And you didn't have a mustache. I did. No, you didn't. What's going on with you? Do you have to shave like three times a day and I've just never known it? No, you know what it is? First of all, the current stache that I've got going, I like to call it the Mater D. Mission accomplished. Mission accomplished.

I look like Jonathan, you know, what's his name? He played the Mater D in Ferris Bueller's Day Off. You know, Jimmy Valli's old comedy part. He's also in the pilot of Arrested Development. Yes, and he was also in... You do look just like him. That's funny. He was also in Flate, and he was great. So you've worked with him how many times? You still don't know his last name. Got it. Jonathan Schmock. Schmock? Yeah. Go ahead, Google it. We can wait. Listener will wait. Watch this.

So... Go ahead, Sean, talk. Okay, so I was... I was... I love being told what to do. Oh, Sean, shut up! Always talking all the time. I was scrolling through the guide this week, and the bucket list was on. And I know you guys know, and I talk about it a lot, but... Wait. Wait. Hey, can we not chew while we're recording? You know, you're not on a break, Chunk. Okay.

Jason and I were playing golf with somebody yesterday, and they accused me of having a dad bod. And I said, yeah, it's a lot of, it's not even muffin top right now. It's just all muffin. Actually, you both know that's not true. I mean, I'm actually getting in pretty good shape. Really? You can say it, but we can see it. Why don't you tell your body? Yeah. All right, guys. Hang on. You didn't let me finish. You didn't let me finish. Pretty good shape for me. Yeah.

Guys, my guest today has won more Emmys and Screen Actors Guild than any other human being in history. Eric McCormick. In 2018, she received the Kennedy Center's Honor of the Mark Twain Prize for American Humor. And also, we were up for the same part on Seinfeld. Ladies and gentlemen, Julia Louis-Dreyfus. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my goodness. Hi, guys. The one, the only. Oh, she's with the teeth. She's got nice teeth. Oh.

Wow. It's just so flattering, these yeses from these superstars. I know. Aren't you flattered I agreed to come on? Yeah. Sean, how much are you paying her? Just like a portion of the proceeds.

Quite a lot, actually, which is delightful. I mean, it was a negotiation for sure, but it worked out in my favor. So listen to me. You're one of the funniest people alive, if not the funniest person alive. Yes, that's true. Yeah. One more Emmys and Screen Actors Guild awards than any other person. Wow. Isn't that kind of crazy? Come on, Julia. You don't give a shit. This is news to you, isn't it? It's news to me. Bullshit. Is that true? No, it's not news.

It's got to be true. I mean, I'm not sure that's true about the SAG Awards, and it's all very lovely and stuff, but at the end of the day...

I don't think you're really in it to win awards. No offense to awards, and I'll take more if they come my way. But you know what I'm saying. It's why I've always rejected winning. I've never won. And that's why. For that very reason that you're pointing out. They'd let him know that he won. He says, no, thank you. And then they give it to somebody else. Oscars, Emmys, Tonys, everything. But it is, however, as modest as that is, it's got to... It's not modest, really. Well, but it is like...

It feels there is that validation and it's great to, you know, you do such great work so consistently for a long time. Yeah. You don't stop working. Aren't you exhausted? I am a little tired, but I like working. I know why. I do. I love working too because I, so I don't have to be with myself.

but what, but the stuff, but think about the things that Julia has been, uh, invited to do or pursued or however it all works. I mean, it's like some of the best stuff ever. And, uh, you must love it. I mean, you pick up those. I remember having these feelings, uh, will, while we were doing arrested, like the script would come, this is back when it was all paper scripts. Uh,

I'd open up the door at like five in the morning when we get our scripts day of shooting. Um, it's a different podcast. Um, and I would read the Mitch recovery podcast. I would read it gleefully like a fan. I'd be so excited that this material that we get to do it and we need not do anything, but just talk it. Cause it's already so funny. I mean, for, I mean, can you remember reading a bad script? It's must've, it's gotta be 30 years in your career. Oh, I,

I've read my share of bad scripts and I think I've done my share of bad scripts. You got Jason's pilot. You got my one act. I got the one act and I got the feature and I've gotten a few things. Listen, we'll workshop it. We'll make it better. It's just first draft. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. But, you know, put a pin in it. Let's say that. The quality of the scripts, when you come across great quality,

quality in a script, it's exalting. There's no, there's no way. And then all of a sudden, don't you find that it's like your creative energy and juices start going nuts and you start thinking of things to layer on and stuff like that. I want to ask you a question about Seinfeld that I've always wanted to know. Here it comes. All right. Cause we are shifting gears. I won't be able to answer. I have no memory. I know. Go ahead. Well, this is more about your experience and your feeling. Um,

Of course, there are a lot of stories out there, and Jerry's talked a lot about that first season,

making six episodes, I think, initially, and four episodes. And it wasn't even NBC Comedy or whomever. It was a different division who paid for those. Late night programming. Late night, exactly. Wow. Oh, it was, what's his name, too, wasn't it? Yeah, it was Rick Ludwin, God bless. Rick Ludwin. What a sweet man. Your memory is awful about this experience. I know, I know. So, but I digress. But then the show becomes, and it's now, of course, such a part of that...

really about our cultural fabric, if you will, a term that's gross, but also true. Not just that it was a popular show, but that because it became this sort of phenomenon, what was your recollection of that moment when it sort of crossed over? Did you have a moment like that where you went like, oh my God, this is bigger than us doing a show. This has become something else. You know, I can sort of say that that didn't quite ever happen because, you know,

um, we were, I think, first of all, I think the show's popularity grew exponentially once we were off the air. Um, and as soon as we wrapped that ninth season, I think the nostalgia for the show just sort of grew like it was just mammoth. Um, and, um,

And also, you know, you guys know what it's like doing a show. I mean, you go in, you have a table to read, you rehearse, you have run-throughs. You know, you're in the weeds on it. You're working on it. And also, by the way, during this time, those nine years, I had two kids during this time. So having young children and sort of juggling these hours, which were long hours, it sort of kept my...

focus elsewhere. I will, I do remember when we were shooting the finale and, uh, and we shot the show over at CBS Radford. A little interesting tidbit. You shot your finale on the same stage as Will and Grace. Huh? Bam. Bam. Except weren't you guys shoot, were you shooting Will and Grace at all at the same time we were or no? I think just the last year, maybe, maybe the last year or something. I don't know. Um,

And so we were shooting the finale and I remember that they had to put barricades up all along Radford because there were people out there with telephoto lenses trying to see the actors that were coming in to be guest stars on the finale. And I remember being so shocked, like, seriously, who gives a shit? It's just, you know, a bunch of...

members of SAG are coming through that are our friends. We're doing this and then we're going to, you know, have a party and that's the end of it. I mean, it was, that was a moment in which I thought, wow, that's really amazing that people are that invested in it. Julia, I'm like, I'm obsessed with people's like, you know, beginnings. And I know you're probably sick of talking about it, but like, were you funny as a tiny kid? And were you like,

Did you ever like dream, like you watch Carol Burnett and be like, oh my God, I want to be like her. And like, like what made you want to like do all of it? Or were you always did somebody in your family in theater? No. Cause your dad's like this crazy billionaire agriculture guy.

Well, first of all, he's not a billionaire. I always have to say that, which I know sounds crazy, but it's out there and it's not true, if only it were. But I don't know. I always liked to... Yes, I think that I was funny. I was always trying to make my mom laugh and shit like that. And I was in love with... There was a period of my life when I was really young where I would watch... I watched The Sound of Music...

and Mary Poppins and Funny Girl all the time. And this was back before they videotaped. So you would go to the movies every weekend and I would watch these movies over and over again. And I remember thinking when I was really little that I just needed, I just had to meet Barbra Streisand. I knew that if we met each other, that we would become such best friends. I just knew it in my heart.

And I had the opportunity to meet her decades later. We were at the White House Correspondents Center and I saw she was over there and I thought, I've got to say something. And I went over to her and I said, hey, Barbara, I'm Julia Louis-Dreyfus and I just wanted to tell you just as such a treat to meet you. And she said something like,

No, I already told them what I wanted. That's hilarious. No way. I swear. Did you slither away or did you dig in? Oh, I just went.

Right. Okay. Yeah. There's nothing like humiliation. There's, it just cannot be overstated how those moments stay with you. Yes. And they, they just, that, you know, the good things don't really have the same stickiness, but humiliation is unbelievable. It's kind of fantastic too for comedy. Mm-hmm.

So when I was 16, this story is void of any celebrity interaction, but... Oh. We'll still kind of... I know. I know. So I was about 16 and I was in Toronto and I was waiting for a friend and I was leaning against a tree. And I was right in this part of Toronto where all these college students are and these three college students come walking along, two guys and a girl.

And the guy closest to me, he's white, and I'm 16. I'm, like, smoking a cigarette poorly, trying to look cool, like, just trying to, like, waiting for a friend, trying to look like this. And they walk by me, and the guy closest to me, without breaking stride, just turns out of the conversation he's having with his friends, and he goes, what's up, cool guy? And then keeps walking. And my entire, my spine came out of my body.

And I was so humiliated. He had seen me trying so hard in that moment, and I was so humiliated. I love it. And this guy has no idea. He wouldn't remember the next day that he said it, and it has stayed with me, you know, 35 years. I think you sound amazing. Very cool.

So embarrassing. I remember, and I know this is a panel of men, but I don't give a shit. I remember when I got my period when I was really young. Me too. And I think I was like 11 or 12 and there was a dance. And I went to an all-girls school. So there was some dance with the boys' school. And

And this was, and I'm sorry, guys, I have to. No, I was going to say there's a herd of dogs following you to the dance. And I just, and I was wearing a sanitary pad, not a,

sanitary pad. And so, you know, that thing is bulky. And I remember walking into the school and I seen my friends and they knew I just got my period, such a big deal. And I sort of did this sumo squat and started sort of walking over to them to be funny. And I just remember all the girls going, Oh, like, Oh, that is so cool. Did you do, you got all the way through the dance? Like, what did you do?

Well, I can tell you one thing. There's not one boy who asked me to dance at that dance. Not one. What did you say that your girlfriend said that it was cool or it was gross? Did they laugh or not?

No, they didn't laugh. They didn't think it was funny. They thought I was. Thank God you did. Yeah. Although, you know, I didn't think it was funny when I got no reaction, you know, and I made this really, you know, I was like, blah, blah, blah face and then walking around squatting.

But you, but didn't stop you from being bold and courageous your whole life by, you know, making a fool out of yourself, which is like the key to humor, right? Being willing to embarrass yourself or, you know, pull your pants down figuratively. Yeah. I mean, you really do have to, it's true. You do have to take that risk. And sometimes you have to live with the failure of that risk, which is,

will undoubtedly happen time and time again, but you must do that.

Going back to the funny humiliating stories, because they're my favorite. Those and medical stories I love, because I have tons. I do too. I almost died two years ago when my small intestine burst open in the middle of the night. And I went to Cedars, drove myself. Scotty, my husband hates when I say that, because I didn't want to wake him. And so I drove up to the valet at Cedars-Sinai Hospital, threw my keys at the valet. And he's like, what? And I go, just park it anywhere. Yeah.

And I go in and I'm bent over with my stomach. And the guy goes, what's wrong? I go, I don't know, fucking no. I'm here because I'm asking you. I want to ask you. Yeah, and what's the problem? I don't know, my stomach, I feel like I'm dying. And they did all these tests and like, oh, you need emergency surgery right away. And my small part of my intestine burst open and was like polluting my whole body. And then I went on Dr. Oz to talk about it. And he said, in my entire history, I've never ever-

seen this. Well, first of all, let me say one thing. Yeah. Dr. Oz should not be your doctor. Correct. Oh, shit. Nor should you let him inside your body to look around. No, no. I was just on a show. He's not the guy. He's not my doctor. There are those who say, not me, but there are those who say that he's a quack.

Sure. Yeah. What? Anyway, so I love medical stories, but back to humiliating stories, which I think I probably just- How is that different than an appendix, by the way? Yeah. Yeah. How is that? But appendix is a different part of your body. And I don't understand how your small intestine bursts. And does this mean you need a colostomy bag?

Show her your bag. So, Sean. You want to see my scar? You want to see my scar? Yeah. Are you on the operating table? And as you're on the table, you go, book me on Dr. Oz. So, wait. You can see like a little hole there. I can't see anything. Sean, that's a C-section. Oh, really? Because my double button doesn't...

Oh, shit. Wait a minute. I had a C-section. I have two dogs, but I didn't think that's how I got them. Scotty, he's a sneaky one. He always says, let's try. And I'm like, it's not going to happen. And lo and behold, here I am.

Oh, it makes quarantine go by faster having three kids. So listen, especially through C-section. So the hospital, no, nobody knows what caused my small intestine to burst open. Nobody knows. That's the thing. To this day, they don't know? They don't know. There's no answer. You don't know how to prevent it from possibly happening again. And the surgeon who's incredible, saved my life,

He's in the hospital room after I'm done, you know, after I'm recovering and the nurse is in there and, you know, he's like, okay, we're going to release you. You know, this is after like four or five days. We're going to release you tomorrow. Make sure you don't drink alcohol. And the surgeon's standing behind him going, don't worry about it. You can totally drink. You can drink.

I'm like, really? And he's like, yeah, and you probably shouldn't eat like sharp things like potato chips. And the surgeon's like, go ahead. You can eat potato chips. Was this still while you were down in Mexico after the eye surgery? Yeah.

Yes, exactly. And Sean, is Dr. Phil still your therapist? Yes, Dr. Phil is. He's actually here now. We have to wrap this up soon. So no, I love medical stories. So if you have one, chime in, other than your horrible breast cancer, and I'm so glad you're doing well. But I also like humiliating stories like theater stories. I have a thousand of them, like things that gone wrong in a theater or auditions that have gone wrong. Do you have any of those? Because I live for them. Yeah, I do.

Do you have any terrible podcast stories? Do I have a terrible podcast? No, I don't. I have so many of these stories. I don't even know where to start. Okay, so first of all, I'm going to start. I'll tell you this story. So I'm giving birth to my first child. I weigh 160 pounds. I am completely... I'm at Cedars. I'm completely naked.

I've got the thing around my, yeah. I got the thing around my stomach, you know, that it's monitoring everything. Yeah. It's unnecessary for you to be so naked. No, it's not. Was it hot in there? No, it's not. To have the baby, you have to. And I go, I'm in the bathroom. You know, I cannot believe what I'm seeing on this show. Please, I'm dying laughing. Look, and I just told you I almost died because of my stomach. Yep. So I go into the bathroom.

And I, cause I've been there for a while. I was at long, long labor with this one. And all of a sudden my, there's bloody show and there's my water is just broken. And so I've, so I've sort of, I'm sort of over the toilet, once again, squatting like I was earlier. This is kind of my signature. And, and I'm like this, you know, sort of squatting like that. And this nurse comes in

And she looks at me and she goes, Elaine! No way. Oh my God. Oh my God.

Is that awful or what? It's right up there with my first and only colonic where I walked in the office door and this sweet woman says, Justine's brother. No way. No way. I kind of nodded politely. She said, go ahead, take him down and get up there on that table and I'll be in in a minute.

So, you know. Oh, my God. Did you go through with the colonic? I sure did, but I didn't look through the aquarium window. Anything come out? Like you've heard like... She said there was a small bike license plate. Potato chips. Gene Wolfe, T-N-W-O-L-F. A lot of pointy foods and alcohol. Yeah. I want to know like a theater or something. Yeah. Yeah. So...

Long, long time ago, I auditioned for About Last Night. Do you remember that movie? Yeah. Demi Moore, Rob Lowe. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And...

For the part that, not the Demi Moore part, but the other part that was played by Elizabeth Perkins, I believe. Oh, yeah. Anyway, and so I had this audition and with the directors, Mitch Herskovitz and...

The other Marshall Herskovitz and Ed Zwick. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Ed Zwick. Thank you. Apologies to all. And so I go into the audition. And as I get there, Demi Moore is leaving.

And she does a little twirl and a giggle and everybody laughs and she laughs and then she exits and she's stunningly beautiful. And she has obviously nailed this audition. So I go in and I read and I am so, I want this job so badly. Usually when I really want a job, I don't get it. A thousand percent. Yes. Never. Never.

And so I read and I do not read well because I want the job too much. I saw her nail it. I was thrown everything. I just got...

And I went home and I knew I'd done really badly and I was so upset. And I thought, you know what? I'm going to write them a letter. And I'm going to say, dear Ed and Marshall, you know, I'm so, I hope, you know, you're well. Thank you for the opportunity letting me read for you. I really feel as if I did, I wasn't my best in the audition and I really appreciate the opportunity to come in again. And so I can really show you what I can do. This is a train wreck.

And I take this letter and I go back to this hotel and I give it to the concierge person to put into their thing. I leave and lo and behold, next day I get another audition. Isn't that nice of them? Wow. For the same part, different part? No, same part. The snarky friend, you know, that's all I ever get. And so I go in. At this point, I'd be twice as nervous. I'd be petrified now.

That's right. And that's what I was, Jason. So thank you for that. And I walked in and I read worse than I read the first day. Sure.

It was as if I couldn't, you know, like you're holding the pages and you can't stop your hands from shaking. And I'm afraid to even bring my head up so that I have eye contact so they can even see my face. So I just keep it down on the page. You should have brought your eyes up crossed. And then you should have handed them your SAG card. Just excuse yourself.

Oh, you poor thing. That's so funny. It's brutal, isn't it? It's brutal. It's the worst. It's so hard. Back to your giving birth and the woman says, Elaine, I was driving home from a taping of Will & Grace and there is a man in the middle of the street lying there. And as I was approaching, the car in front of me just drove around him and kept driving. And I was like, oh my God, there's this man.

So I pull over and just before I get out, I'm thinking, is this one of those, you know, scams where I'm supposed to get out and then somebody comes out of somewhere and jumps me and takes my car, whatever. But I'm like, no, it's worth it. So I got out and the guy had just been shot, right? And I was like, oh my God, I took my shirt off and I put it on the wound with my phone, my cell phone. I call 911. I was like, oh my God. And then by then some other people had come out.

And I wait till the ambulance gets there. I'm like, you're going to be fine. You're going to be fine. You're going to be fine. And the first guy gets out of the ambulance. He goes, just Jack. And I'm like, well, there's a man. And I'm shirtless. I'm like, there's a man dying in the middle. By the way, the end of the story is great. He lived. Everything's fine. And he was, it was great. But isn't that insane?

That is insane. Absolutely insane. Did your small intestine burst again? That was the first time. This was before that. My large one. My large one went. It's a precursor. It's a precursor. But wait a minute. I want to know, do you ever get to the point where because you do work so much and you've done so many amazing things and you're brilliant truly in all of them, do you ever get to the point where you're like,

Man, this show business thing is exhausting. I wish I could do blank. I wish, you know, if I had more time, which we do now, and you're very active politically. By the way, did you do Veep because you were political or did Veep make you political? I was political. Yeah. So is there something you want to do maybe in that vein? Have you always dreamed about that or anything? Like, what's the plan? I don't have any other skills.

So I need to keep doing this because otherwise it's going to be a problem. I need to keep working. Does that freak you out? Or do you challenge yourself to think of other things that you would enjoy or you know what I mean? Well, I mean, there are other things I enjoy in life, but in terms of like a job,

You know, I need to work as an actor. That's what I like to do. And really, it's the only thing I can really do. What about the skills that you've gained while being an actor there in the entertainment business, like your knowledge of all the other fields and positions, directing, producing, writing? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I sort of count all that together. But yeah, I mean, producing is something I definitely...

enjoy doing and do do and maybe potentially I'll direct at some point but I don't know I don't know I'm not sure about that a friend of mine asked me if gun to my head if I had to think of a if I had to choose a like a a job any other job in the world a blue collar job she said I'm like why blue collar she's like I don't know just pick it I was like okay a blue collar job I would be like a landscape artist or like I would do something with landscaping is that weird did I just lose everybody yeah

Gardner would be blue collar. Landscape is white collar, I think. Gardner. I would be a Gardner, even. Moe and Blow crew. Yeah, why not? I'm gay. Moe and Blow would be easy. I think I would work in an airport. In what capacity? I was a baggage handler when I was a teenager. Really? Really? Yeah. Was it interesting or not really? Let me just say this. If you're worried that they're going to throw your bags around, worry no more, because they are.

It was like fragile, fragile, mean fragile means extra hard. Um, Julia, what job would you do in the airport? Would you drive the truck that pushes the plane back? No, I would drive the, the go-kart that takes the old people to the gate through the terminal with the constant beeping and the light post. Right. Right. Excuse me. Excuse me.

Let me tell you something. Will and I. That would be a cool job. Will and I went to Istanbul. And when we landed, we got that service because we were assholes. And in the airport at Istanbul, Turkey, were like had to be millions of people. And we were moving through that crowd, the asshole Americans at one mile an hour. Excuse me. Everybody hated the shit out of us.

Why were you in Istanbul? Were you there on a vacation? Yeah. We could have walked faster. We could have walked faster. We did so many of those stupid things in Istanbul. Remember this huge pepper shaker? We came out with this huge pepper shaker that's 19 feet tall. And Sean's like to the waiter, like, I have to. Sorry, we need this for a photo. The guy's like, this is my job. Yeah.

But anyway, so I'm obsessed with you. I have been forever. And I wish I was your friend. Closer. I know we are, but I wish I was at your house right now. No, we're not really friends, Sean. Oh, you just cut up. So...

I have fond memories about us working together and you being blind on Arrested Development. That was so much fun, Jason. What was your character's name in that? That was so much fun. Maggie Leiser. Yeah. Maggie Leiser. As in Carrie Leiser? Wasn't I Cherith? Cherith. What was the name I came up with? It was Cherith, right? Cherith. The name of my character? Yes. Yes.

Was it? Yeah, I think I gave you some fake name. Yeah, because you looked at a chair and you were bad at coming up with a name and you said Cherith. I'm not like an Arrested Development aficionado or anything. I just remember that. That was so much fun. I'd love to work with you again. I want to at least hang out with you again. So when you come back to Los Angeles...

Uh, don't, don't duck me. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to listen. I am on the lookout for this next best thing. So if you think of anything good, let me know and we'll make it. I think we are. Hey, guess what? Oh, is this it? But seriously, I'm not fucking around. I'm not kidding. I really mean that. Great. I like that you're casting a wide net like that. I think that that's good. Why not?

By the way, that's the key. That right there, Jason, you wanted to know how do people get successful because you're always worried, like, how do people get successful? You ask. It's because they put it out there. She puts it out there in a very general way, not like I need this, but just out there.

I'll send you something that's pretty great. Is that true? And then stuff happens. It's 100% true. Oh, good. I can't wait to read it. You can do it or pass. I don't care. I'll keep sending you shit. Life, I believe, is 100% what you put out there. It's all vibrational. Whatever you put out is what you get back 100% of the time. That's a lock, Bateman. I totally agree with that. Well, it's fun to work with people that you like, needless to say, and who are funny. And all three of you guys are funny.

maybe one or two of you are funnier than others within the group, but I won't, I mean, just to be, I'm working on it though. Yeah, I try. Um, but, um, so having said that, I really do mean it. I really got a podcast. We'd love for you to come on, but we don't want to put you on the spot. Um, you think about it. Uh, it's feels kind of like a radio show concept. It's really nothing. We just kind of sit around. It's a podcast about nothing. And I don't know if you'd be interested in that, but don't answer yet. Don't answer yet.

Okay. Just FYI, I don't really do podcasts. So I don't want you to take it personally if I pass. No, no worries. Of course. We won't even ask you then. It's a lot of effort. Okay. All right. But it's been great talking to you anyway. Yes. Nice to catch up. Okay. Bye, honey. All right. Love you. Thank you. Bye. Thanks for having me. See ya. Bye, Julia. Thank you. Bye.

That was great. Great guest, Sean. I love her. I've been such a big fan of hers. And, you know, she was like 21 when she did SNL. That's crazy. 21 and pulled out of college to do it. Or she quit college, I guess. I don't know. She pulled herself out. She pulled herself out. And then got Seinfeld, like, shortly after that. I think it's just... And so grounded. Like, I don't know how...

I know. I could have gone much, much deeper and much more serious with her, but I was starting to feel like I want... You guys are both friends with her, though, right? You guys hang out. I'm not. I wish I was. I thought you were. I wish I was. I mean, one of your friends. Friends. One of your friends. Oh, I see. One of the friends. And sometimes your job's a joke, you're broke, your love life's DOA. You guys, I'll still be there for you when you get older.

Which reminds me, I'm not, this is not a bit, I mean, it is going to seem like a bit, but this is totally true. Yesterday I heard, and I said to Alessandra, I was like, I have to say this to Sean, because Sean's going to love it, because what came on the radio, I swear to God, was, if I could turn back time. Yeah.

It might burn my wings. Jesus, God. Till the day I die. But fucking, I heard it yesterday and I thought of Sean and I knew that we had a show today. And I died.

Oh, wait, Sean, are you famous for doing Cher or something like that? Why did you think of Sean? That's all right. You a big fan? So get to know your friend. Wait, truly, Sean. We're going to do an episode. We're going to do one episode that is just the three of us where we're just going to find out what we don't know about each other. Wait, hang on. I'm very embarrassed. Are you truly known for doing a Cher? Yeah, one of the most famous episodes of Will & Grace is when Cher came on and I imitated her. Tell me what Will & Grace is.

Okay, so you'd think it would be like a will, like where there's a will, there's a way, and the grace of something, but it's actually two people. Is one a preacher? One is a gay guy and one is a straight woman, and they're perfect for each other, although they can't be together. Huh. Well, they're perfect for each other. Was that the idea? Has this been picked up? I swear to God. It's not in the bubble. It's just a script? It's not in the bubble. I swear to God, I never knew it was that they were perfect for each other.

So wait a minute. Let's cut all of that. What, like they were equally annoying? Yeah. It was like a poles, like a negative or north and south or... Something like that. Something like that. We'll cut it, Sean. Don't worry. Rob, dude, send me a version where it's not cut. I'm yar. Okay, so wait. Until next time. Miss you already, guys. Okay, love you guys. Bye, bye, bye. Bye.

Can we stop that being our goodbye? Jesus Christ. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. If you like SmartLess, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.