"Jessica Meir"
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Hey, welcome to Drive Time with Sean, Jason, and Skeeter Arnett. Welcome, everybody. It's going to be really fun today. How's your traffic? Incredible. Bumper to bumper all the way to Mexico. Weather looks great on the sevens. We'll be right back after these words from Smartless. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. Smart. Less.

Hey, here's a kind of fun thing. Last night, Scotty and I were like... This better be fun. Go ahead. No, it's not going to be fun. Here's something fun. Last night, Scotty and I were like, what do you want to watch? You know, what movie? We're looking through movies. Now, you know, I'm in the mood for a thriller. I haven't seen a thriller in a long time. Like a really good one, like Get Out or Remember Fatal Attraction or something like that. Well, you know, in Canada, it's called Get Out. Do they spell it the same, though? They do, actually. Say it again.

They say, get out, get out. Get out. O-O-U-T. And it's like that show that was on Fox. It was House. House. That was a big show up there. Or O-A-U-T. Yeah. So you guys want to watch a thriller, you and Scotty. Yes. We were like, let's watch it. So we were like looking through the things and what's got like high rating because it's, you know, it's hard to find a good thriller. So Jason Bateman, we watched The Gift last night. Oh boy. It was really good. You were really good at it. I'm glad you don't have notes. Look how surprised. I do. Is that locked?

Yeah, we are locked, so please save your notes. Okay, so no suggestions. Jason, Jason, it was pretty good. Was it kind of a gift?

It was a gift. It was really, really good. It was really good. We really, really liked it. Well, thank you. Joel Edgerton did a really good job. That was his first film he directed. I thought he was great. I showed my 14-year-old daughter Pulp Fiction last night for the first time. Oh, wow. And realized about a half hour into it that...

there might be some stuff that she might not be ready to see. I just couldn't remember. Like the needle in the heart? Well, it had been so long since I saw it. Was she like a good OD scene? Like where somebody ODs? You know, but it was pretty tame. You know, parent of the year is still open. So, I mean, we can submit this. No, I'm going to go ahead and not submit this one. Yeah, my dad won last year. Oh, again. Yeah. 50th year in a row. Yeah.

Hey, Sean, look how handsome Will looks this morning. Is it because you're three hours? Oh, no, you're not three hours ahead. You're in Los Angeles now, aren't you? Because he's drinking some milky kind of coffee. What's going on? Did you spend some extra time in the Schwitz yesterday? You look like you dropped a bunch of water weight since the last time I saw you. Good for you.

Gosh, you know what? I'm going to jump in here because our guest is a female today. Oh, no. Yes. So excited for you guys to meet this woman. She's incredible. She's so incredible. Your balls are going to fall off. She's smarter than all three of us put together, but then so is a trash can full of nothing. Yeah. She's a marine biologist, a physiologist. What? Thank God. And an astronaut for NASA. Wow. No. Might I add here... A real dingbat. She's...

Might I add here, she has already been so kind to appear on my other podcast, Hypochondriactor, which premieres on May 5th. That's 5-5. It's a medical podcast that I host, and me and this person chatted a lot about what the body goes through in outer space, and so that's why she was on that show. But here she is. Are you planning a trip? Wait.

Jesus. But more about her. In 2019, she and Christina Koch were the first women to participate in an all-female spacewalk, which is totally rad. And by the way, she also plays the flute, the saxophone, she scuba dives, she has a freaking pilot's license, and she speaks fluent Russian. But today we're hoping she speaks English. Please welcome Jessica Muir to the show. Wow. Jessica, look at this girl. Hello there. Hello. I'm so sorry for the language. I know.

I know. That's okay. Right up my alley. By the way, we can talk about water weight and space and what happens with that. You know, I will say, yeah, we can go right to the puffy thing. I do notice that at zero gravity, y'all will get puffy for those little links back down to Earth when you say happy Christmas or whatever. Everyone's...

Looking real puffy. That's your takeaway. That's your takeaway when the astronauts come back. But I've heard that that is a thing, that it's common knowledge. Astronauts know that. Why is that? It is a thing, yeah. It's not because we're retaining more water. It's just because you have this upward fluid shift. So, you know, without gravity, right now gravity is pulling all the blood down to your feet.

But once you take that away, everything kind of comes upward. And so you get a lot more blood in your head and you can feel it. You feel a little bit congested. You get kind of a puffy face. Some people more than others. But usually it's worse at the beginning and your body adapts a little bit after you're up there for a little while. I wrote about seven jokes while you were talking. This is such a dangerous area. This is such a dangerous area for all that. But although now, Jessica, I can say to Jason in the morning like, oh my gosh, have you just come back from outer space? Like...

Exactly. You just put this right into your repertoire. Are you doing a live hit from space right now? Wait, I get Jessica. I can't be the first person to say your last name is pronounced the exact same way as the space station, international space station. Like I didn't realize that until last night. I was like, Jessica mirror. It's the mirror international space station. Well,

Well, the Mir space station was separate from the International Space Station. That was just a Russian space station. It's not around anymore. Now it's been replaced by the International Space Station. But you're right. They were both space stations. Did they ever consider International House of Space Stations? I tried. I pushed that really hard. But apparently there was some kind of copyright infringement.

Just pancakes galore up there. Jessica, let me just say, so you are an incredibly accomplished person. You're an astronaut. Yes.

And Sean mentioned you have your pilot's license. So I kind of always want to know this. And she's a marine biologist. And a marine biologist. So what was your first thing in that area? Were you a pilot first? Was that your trajectory? No, I wasn't in the military. So now the astronauts are kind of 50-50 in terms of whether or not they have a military background or a civilian background.

So I'm a civilian. I was a scientist previously. That's the marine biology physiology part. So I was working in academia doing experiments with penguins and seals in the Antarctic and diving physiology and then high altitude physiology and that kind of thing as a scientist. But I always wanted to fly airplanes. So I did actually get my pilot's license back. I started taking lessons when I was an undergrad.

and then had my private pilot's license and my instrument rating. And then when we actually become astronauts, we fly the NASA T-38 jets. They're really cool little trainer jets. And so I feel like I really beat the system because now, you know, my dream was to always fly a jet, but I did that without having to join the military. So I won on that one. Oh, that's so cool. And, you know, you heard Sean early on that he, last night, he and Scotty watched the movie, and they did some high-altitude testing, too, right before that. Hey-o.

Jessica, how do you manage the disappointment that your parents must feel, your lack of accomplishments? It's difficult for them. Do you send them really nice postcards in the holidays just to keep their spirits up? You know, if you call every now and then from the space station, it kind of makes up for it, I think. Gosh. I hope you don't have any brothers or sisters that have to live up to your mark. I have four siblings, actually. I'm the youngest of five, and I was always trying to live up to them. So I think that's why I ended up where I am. I'm the youngest of five.

I knew we had so much in common, Sean. How about that? Let's look at your accomplishments next to Jessica's. How are your accomplishments backing up? There's a podcast. Oh, you got two. You got a medical podcast. Two podcasts, yeah. He's got two podcasts, so he's kind of doing okay, too, Jessica. So wait, so Jessica, tell us about the... I know this is kind of a boring question, but as a kid, like, what drew you to look up and go, gosh, you know,

That's super cool up there. I wonder what it would be like to go up there. Like what inspired you? I first started saying I wanted to be an astronaut when I was five. So I don't actually remember that. My mom tells me that part. Then in first grade, we were asked to draw a picture of what we wanted to be when we grew up, like most kids. And that one, I actually remember drawing that iconic image of the astronaut in the spacesuit next to the flag standing on the moon.

And I think I just never stopped saying it ever since then. And I don't know, there wasn't any one particular thing that I didn't meet anyone from NASA. You know, I was in a really small town in northern Maine, right on the Canadian border. Well, yeah, yeah, practically Canadian. I'm an honorary, but that's a separate topic. We welcome you. Thank you. Can you guess my birthday? Your birthday is are you going to say that it's on Canada Day?

Is it really? It's Canada Day. Yeah. July 1st? For real? Yes. Yeah. Well, you can, you can, I think that makes you prime minister, technically. Well, I lived in Canada for three years and it was so wonderful because there was always a big celebration for my birthday. Of course. Wait, where did you live in Canada? Just sidebar. Where'd you live in Canada? I did my postdoc in Vancouver at university, at UBC. Oh, Vancouver is technically not Canada. Yeah.

So, yeah. It's Hollywood North, right? Yeah, it's Hollywood. Once you get on the other side of the Rockies there, then it's just a bunch of wingnuts. I can't wait for the letters, by the way, from Vancouver. So then you study, you do all this stuff, and then what's the moment where you go, where it becomes an option, astronaut? Astronaut.

Yeah. Well, since it was something that I really planned on or hoped to do since I was five, I tried to involve myself in any kind of space related activity. Like I went to space camp when I was in high school, not the real NASA space camp, but there was a space camp at Purdue and my sister was there in grad school.

And then I did some programs in college and that kind of thing. So just kind of tried to expose myself to as much of it as possible. But I didn't think that it would necessarily ever happen because we all know it's really a very, very small chance, no matter how good you are. So I ended up actually coming to work at NASA previously, like 20 years ago as a scientist. So I was coordinating life science experiments, the kind of experiments that were the subjects for as astronauts. Now I was working on the on the

the ground side for that way back then. I was here for three years doing that before I actually went to graduate school. So now I kind of look at it as full circle where, well, first I used to coordinate science on other astronauts. Then I went to grad school, did all these physiological experiments in planting animals and, you know, with certain electrodes and measuring these things. And they were my subjects. And now it's full circle where I'm the animal on the other side being poked and prodded on the name of science.

in really the most extreme environment in space. So it's just me kind of paying my dues, I guess. That's so cool. But you don't really, you have to, you just apply to be an astronaut. So nobody comes looking for you. Right, but there must be a day where like the letter comes in the mail where they go, you're an astronaut. Yeah, so I applied a couple times actually. I just got one of those. You did? Yeah, I just got one. You weren't supposed to tell anyone yet. It's still a secret, Sean. Sean applied just for the poking and prodding. Yeah.

Oh, my God. But wait. I have a million questions because the guys know, like, space is like my porn. Like, I could talk to you for nine hours about anything that has to do with space. I just love it. Talk us through, like...

the experience of launch. So when you're on that freaking spacecraft for the first time, do you have to go do some major zen work and get to a calm place? Because that's got to be the most stressful flight anyone can take. You probably just put a zany under your tongue, right? And it's fine? Yeah. Just like flying to Atlanta. Yeah.

And you've pretty soon you're there. Yeah, it's really pretty interesting because for me, so I launched with the Russians on a Soyuz spacecraft and a Soyuz rocket. So I was in Russia for much of the lead up, like the year and a half before learning how to fly that rocket and doing that all in Russian. In Russia. Which was incredibly interesting. Yeah, because, you know, at the time, the space shuttle had already been retired back in 2011. And we didn't have SpaceX online yet like we do now. We were exclusively launching with the Russians online.

Really, since 2011 until now, we've been doing that to get to the space station. But that was one of the best parts of the experience for me. I mean, living and working over there. How janky are their spaceships? Be honest. Are they kind of, are they a little threadbare or is it like held together with duct tape? You know, the thing is that Soyuz has been flying for decades. So it is the most reliable rocket available on the planet right now. And so that was, I had no problem stepping onto that incredibly reliable rocket.

And it is interesting. There is a big difference in the engineering on the American side and the Russian side where their strategy is more something simple and robust that works. You know, they don't keep changing it. They have something that works and they don't have to put a lot of bells and whistles on it versus, you know, the space shuttle. That was one of the most complex flying machines ever made. And, you know, that's one of the reasons why it had some of the problems that it had. But it was a really kind of I think we have very different engineering philosophy.

That's how they describe my mail-order bride that I ordered from Moscow. Robust and works. Wait a minute. Reliable. Yeah. But, Jessica, is it like... I always think, like, when American astronauts like yourself talk about Russian astronauts you meet in space or you meet before, obviously, and whatever, does any of the kind of tension, the political tension... Like, I imagine it's... Obviously, it goes away because you're meeting the person, but...

Is it weird to meet somebody with so much, you know, through their country having so much political tension between the United States? Yeah, to me, that made it even more special and interesting, you know, to be living and working over there as an American, given the political climate. And also just historically, if you think about it, so we're over there training in Star City in the Gagarin Cosmonaut Training Center. That's the same training center where Yuri Gagarin trained, you know, the first human that ever went to space.

And that city, Star City, was actually not on the map. It was a secret city because they were trying to keep it secret from us during the space race. So it was a really interesting thing to know that we were there. Now, I'm there as an American woman training and working there with the Russians in the same place where Yuri Gagarin was. And to me, that just made it so much more special and incredible. Wow.

Talk about the change to the extent you had any, the change in perspective of being somebody who lives and breathes and walks on this planet.

After you had that perspective from space looking back at this planet, I've heard people talk about that there is a different perspective that can be somewhat distracting for astronauts when they come back because they've sort of seen this as not the end-all be-all but just another planet.

Yeah, it is really interesting. And I think it definitely changes you as a person. We even have a name for it called the overview effect, which Frank White described and really how it changes you essentially as a person when you've looked down the planet with your own eyes. And I think for me, I had thought about a lot about that before I went up and it was pretty true in terms of the

things that I saw. The first one was, you know, I've always been a very, a very strong advocate of the environment. And so that's just plain to see. I don't think you can come back from space and not have a much stronger appreciation of how beautiful and fragile the planet is and how we need to protect it. And you see this really thin, tenuous band of an atmosphere and you realize, I mean, you can just see how special it is and these continuous bodies of water and the land and

They say you can see Jason's water weight from space. No kidding. Really? From space? Yeah. The lighting has to be exactly right. Yeah, the lighting's never right. Jessica, I guess sort of expanding on what Jason was saying, but that feeling, does your day-to-day, I mean more like your interpersonal relationships, of course, that sort of regard for the planet and for the environment changes.

But just in terms of when you start getting back and you start having interpersonal relationships with people and people are like, hey, this is bothering me or this. And you have such a bigger perspective. Does it change? Do you kind of go like, hey, stop making such a big deal about the fact that I left the cupboards open or whatever, right?

Yeah, that's the other big part of it is that perspective shift in terms of, you know, looking back and realizing how insignificant even we are as humans or our planet is in the scope of the solar system and the universe. And I think, you know, I say that all the time. I wish that every human could experience that perspective shift because it does make you appreciate what's important. And especially for me when I was up there. So I launched in September of 2019. There was no COVID. And we watched COVID unfold from the space station.

And when I landed, so there were six of us for four months of my mission. And then for the last two and a half months, there were only three of us. So there were three humans up there. And we're watching things get, you know, of course, in the beginning, like everybody else, we didn't think it was going to be as bad as it was. And we're watching things get worse and worse. And then suddenly we're feeling like it's we're the characters in this bad science fiction movie where you pan to the space station and then the entire planet is wiped out.

by a meteor or something. And you guys have to keep the race going. Right, and I have to now procreate and bring back the civilization, and I'm responsible for repopulating the entire human species. And there were only three people up there at the time? There were only three of us, yeah.

Do the math. Three females or was there a male up there? No, I was the only female. It was me and two men. So yeah, I was looking around and I was thinking. That's that moment in the cartoon when you turn into a rack of lamb. Right, right, right.

But that must have been so surreal to be up there watching it unfold down here. What are you guys watching on? Are you watching like MSNBC or CNN? Yeah, so we get some news sources. We don't just have a constant stream to the internet like we do down here, but we can have different news programs uplinked, and sometimes we can get a real connection. So whatever we ask for. You guys got 5G up there?

No, no. There's certain sections of the rotation where it's like service is terrible when we're crossing over Europe. But so you were up there for, my math is not great, but did you, were you up there six months? Almost seven. So I was there for 205 days. So it was almost seven months. And it was the middle of April when we were landing last year. The middle of April was when things were really bad. So we were returning like right into the

thick of it. And it ended up even being really a major accomplishment for NASA and for the Russian Space Agency in just figuring out how to get us back. In the Soyuz, we land in the middle of nowhere in Kazakhstan, and then we send a NASA jet over to pick us up. But given all the restrictions with

with all of the flight regulations, it was really difficult for them to figure out how to even pick us up. So we had a little bit more of an exciting return to Earth than normal, where it was kind of like a planes, trains, and automobiles version, where we first had a helicopter, which is normal, but then we rode in an ambulance across the Kazakh steppe for three hours before we got to our NASA jet and finally got back here. But that was the thing that was such a difficult transition. It's hard enough to come back from space after seven months, but

Suddenly I came back in the middle of a global pandemic and I couldn't even hug anyone. And I'm a hugger. You know, I couldn't even see people or. Was it a part of you that was like, you know what? I think we're good. We're just going to stay up here for, just ride this thing out. Like I would be, you know, yeah, you're up in space, but also at the same time. A little late checkout. Yeah.

You know, let's see how this thing works itself out. Yeah, I would have stayed longer. I absolutely wanted to stay. Even without the pandemic, I actually wasn't ready to leave. I would have rather stayed for like a year. It was just so incredible. Jason, would you go to space and, I mean, would you, do you think you'd give up showbiz for six months? Hmm.

And can I get alerts from Deadline? Tom Cruise is going to film a movie up there soon. Maybe you could just film a movie up there. Oh, wait. Is that true? So do you know anything about that, the logistics of that, Jessica, the Tom Cruise movie? Well, tell them who is it and what is it.

I don't know that it's finalized yet, but we've been hearing that it might happen. Yeah. But the Russians are talking about doing it too, so they might beat us to that. I think it's Tom Cruise, isn't it? It is Tom Cruise. On the Russian side, they've got some Russian actress that I think is involved, but I don't know who's going to get it done first. We'll see what happens. Wow. It's another space race. It's the space Hollywood race. Are they planning on shooting it in the International Space Station?

You know, that's the part that I don't really understand because, as you guys know, it takes a lot more to shoot a movie than just an actor, even if it's Tom Cruise. So I don't really know logistically. Not too much, Mark.

So I should know this, but how did you land? Is it a water landing? No, it's a land landing. So the SpaceX Dragon, if you've seen that vehicle, that does land in the water. Actually, we're about to launch another SpaceX coming up here in just a couple of weeks, and I'm involved in that one. So I'll be going to Florida to help launch that crew. And then shortly after, the crew that's on the space station now will be landing in water. But the Soyuz lands on land. So basically...

It comes through the atmosphere, which is, you know, it's this incredibly dynamic process. I mean, you're literally burning up through the atmosphere. So in the window that I can see right here next to my head, there's just all this plasma, this orange flame all around you. Then your parachute comes out. So the parachute slows you down significantly. And then the Soyuz has these soft landing thrusters. So when you're really pretty close to the ground, then these thrusters fire to give you a little bit of momentum going back up so that it's what they call a soft landing. Mm-hmm.

And it's, you know, people described it to me as being in a car crash because obviously it's not that soft. You're still falling back to the earth. But it was actually softer than I anticipated. You fit pretty well in your little custom-made seat. They actually, it's really interesting. In Russia, there are these

little old Russians in white suits in this room. And there's like this little bassinet and they put you in it and they pour a mold around you to make this custom fit seat liner. It is like straight out of a 1960s movie. It's really incredible. Oh, that sounds so comfy. And then is there like little springs underneath the seat to absorb some of the impact of landing? The seat cocks. It moves up to, yeah, to help absorb that impact as well. So the seat does help. But I was actually pretty surprised how soft it was.

But let me ask you something. You're a marine biologist, which is amazing. Can you talk about your relationship between learning stuff deep in the ocean and space and how it's similar and any experiments that you've done in space that you can share with us and the results of that? Because that's fascinating to me. So I think there are definitely a lot of parallels to me. I think that's why I've always been really interested in all these different realms. And to me, it kind of just all goes to exploration and looking around the corner and having that scientific curiosity involved.

But really the thing that's appealed to me the most in my previous research and in being an astronaut is this kind of extreme level where when I was a scientist, I was looking at the most extreme divers. So emperor penguins can dive for 30 minutes on a single breath, elephant seals for two hours.

And they're air breathing breath hold divers just like us, but they can dive for hours on one breath. And so we were trying to figure out why and how can they do that? How does their physiology allow them to do that? And then I worked with a bar headed geese, the geese that migrate over the Himalayas. So they're flying over the tallest mountains on the planet twice a year. So same kind of thing, this real oxygen limitation. - I know how they feel. I've been holding my breath for like two years waiting for Will to make something of himself. - I was holding my breath till this show was actually scheduled. I was so excited.

Sorry, we were running late. That was on me. I'd like to know the answer to that. What is the physiology that allows a creature to just use that limited amount of oxygen for two hours? Yeah, so it's not just one thing. So these animals, for example, that are really good divers, they have, first of all, larger blood volume. So even on a mass-specific scale,

basis, they have more blood and then they have more hemoglobin, the protein that carries oxygen in your blood, and more myoglobin that carries oxygen in your muscles. So they're able to carry more oxygen on board and then they use it really, really effectively. And then the third thing, which actually some of our research uncovered, was that they can tolerate

way lower levels of oxygen than we can. So for example, you know, if you hear about not holding your breath and hyperventilating before swimming underwater, because you can have shallow water blackout and that kind of thing, that occurs at a certain level of oxygen when your brain, you know, just gets too little oxygen for your brain. And that value in these animals is way

way lower. So they can really push it way, way, way, way down and still be swimming and looking for their prey and foraging around. So if you combine all those three things, you have more oxygen, you use it really effectively, and then you can tolerate a much lower level of oxygen. Then obviously you can die for a much longer time. And is that the same sort of

that kind of idea of that, holding on and that oxygen is the same. Like, like when Sean walks in a room, it feels like he's all the oxygen has been sucked out of the room. Is that, is that the same? It's very similar. Yes. Some of these animals, that's, that's a great segue. Some of these animals actually have a, a higher affinity hemoglobin. They can hold on to oxygen more tightly than another animal. So kind of like Sean. So that explains it. Yeah. We should study his hemoglobin. So I'm going to, I'm going to stop saying he's, he's just holding on to more hemoglobin and, uh,

Here comes Sean. He's about to hold on to more hemoglobin as he walks in the room, you know? What do you do when you're up there for seven months and you've run out of an experiment to do and you're looking to just pass some time? Do you fire up a conversation? Do you read a book? You can't possibly bring seven months' worth of books and TV. It's called Kindle, Granddad. And...

That's a great point. That's a great point. Well... Can you imagine just turning a page and the book starts floating away? Oh, where was I? So first of all, we don't have a lot of free time because we, particularly during the time I was up there, we had a lot going on. So, you know, like you mentioned science, that really is the main objective of the space station. So we're doing scientific experiments ranging from how spaceflight and microgravity affect our human body. So physiological and medical experiments,

Also, combustion experiments, even flames burn differently in space, material science, radiation, everything, you name it. So all types of really cool science. And then we also have to do a lot of repair and maintenance. The space station is actually over 20 years old now. So, you know, we have to be able to fix the toilet and change the light bulbs ourselves. We can't call a plumber or an electrician.

And do we have a structured 10-hour workday? Do we have a lunch break? Yeah, so our day, any day consists of, you know, you wake up, you look at your computer, and it tells you exactly what to do, all the information's there. Maybe one hour you're doing an experiment. The next hour you're fixing the toilet or changing something in one of the systems, etc.,

The next hour, you know, you might be doing actually an outreach activity. We might be doing a spacewalk one day. So I was super lucky to do three spacewalks while I was up there when we need to repair something on the outside of the space station. Oh, my. We might be flying. Oh, this one's for Will. We might be flying the Canadarm. I was about to ask you about the Canadarm. What the hell is a Canadarm? I mean, this thing. That is Canada's contribution to the International Space Station. And it's this large. An arm? It's a big robotic arm on the outside of the space station. That's all they just can tell them. They also have some incredible astronauts.

Tell them, Jeff, first of all, some incredible astronauts from Canada first. Secondly, the Canadarm, which every Canadian, you know, as a kid, when you grew up and you watched the space shuttle launch, and on the Canadian broadcast, CBC or CT or whatever it is, they'd always go, and there's the Canadarm, you know, and like...

Okay. I mean, look, I'm not saying it's not great, but I'm just saying, like, Canadians always feel the need, anytime you mention anybody, they go, he's Canadian. You go, okay, man, great. Why are you, and I can say that as a Canadian. This is a Canadian non-Canadian crime that I'm committing here. But the Canadarm, it's great or it's okay? The Canadarm is great. And so we use it for spacewalks. Why are you winking at me? You're saying it's great, but you're winking. Why are you, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. I'm sorry.

So I did three spacewalks, but I was also up there when the other two crew members up there were doing a spacewalk to fix the alpha magnetic spectrometer. And during those EVAs, spacewalks, you know, we have a lingo for everything. Those are EVAs. When I was flying the arm for those spacewalks. So in that spacewalk, my buddy, Luca Parmitano, an Italian astronaut, and then one of the times, Drew Morgan, an American astronaut, flew.

They were actually on the end of the arm. So I had to fly them around really carefully to make sure that I didn't bump them into the space station. And then other times we use the Canadarm to capture visiting vehicles. So we have cargo resupply vehicles that go up just to deliver supplies. So that would be people on board. Those get up there really in close proximity to the space station. And then we use the Canadarm to come. We fly the Canadarm over and we grab the cargo vehicle and then we bring it down. Very gently and very equitably, the Canadarm. It's very... It apologizes a

And super friendly. Always saying sorry. And a little passive aggressive. Yeah, always saying sorry. By the way, if I was on the space station and I came back, every time I landed back, I would demand that they play Duran Duran. This is planet Earth. Sean, do you know it? Jessica, talk to me about doing the spacewalks

I can't even conceive. I mean, I've seen the movie Gravity with Sandy Bullock and Sandra Bullock, sorry, and George Clooney. Look who's Sandy. Look who all of a sudden is Sandy Bullock. We don't look like Sandra Bullock when we come out of the spacesuit. I'm sorry. We're not wearing those little tiny boy shorts. No, no, of course. That's hilarious. But no, what is it like to be out there? Because there's no sound. There's no... No wind. No wind.

it's just infinity in every direction. Is there a fear that like, oh my God, what if this cord comes off? What if I, I mean, what is it? What emotionally, what is it like? Yeah, it's interesting. It's kind of like the question that I didn't answer earlier, I guess about launching. I think all of it goes back to the training that we have. So we have done all of these actions so many times on the ground.

for the launch sequence in a simulator, for the spacesuit, we're in a spacesuit, the same spacesuit, but a downgraded version from the flight version. And we do that in a big pool here at NASA in Houston. So we're so used to all the muscle memory and everything involved. And our training, you know, literally I trained for like six years before I went to space. So I had all of that mechanical memory. So

Because you can rely on that training, you kind of just automatically do these things and it helps you kind of separate some of the more, some of the other thoughts you have. So you don't freak out in the moment. Right. Yeah. But then can you enjoy the moment too? Or are you just so focused? No, absolutely. So it is really different for different people. I mean, it's

Spacewalks are a really special thing where some people you wouldn't expect it. You know, some big tough jet pilot goes out on a spacewalk and is terrified. You know, some people feel like they're falling. Sure. And it's just a weird, like you actually, when you're looking out a window on the space station, of course you can feel that sense of motion, but it's much more so when it's just you in a space suit and you look down and the earth is going past you so fast. I mean, we're going around the entire planet every 90 minutes.

So, you know, it's moving really quickly. Because you're carrying the same speed you had when you broke through the atmosphere, that coupled with the fact the Earth is rotating the opposite direction at what, roughly a thousand miles an hour? It's because of the altitude of our orbit. So that kind of dictates your orbital velocity, how fast you're going. And at low Earth orbit, where the space station is, it's about 250 miles above the planet. And so that's where we're going, 17,500 miles per hour.

So you feel that more when, you know, you don't feel like you're, you know, moving because you're moving at the same speed as the space station as I'm holding onto it. But when you look down, you kind of can feel that more, but it is. So does that mean that you've, sorry, that you've broken through the atmosphere at 17,000 miles an hour and then you can shut off the engines. And since there's no gravity, it'll just carry that speed forever. No. So when you launch in the spacecraft, you're actually in space only after about eight minutes.

And so those engines have gotten you out of the atmosphere. And I actually don't even know what exactly that peak speed is for the Soyuz in terms of the launch. Then when you get out of the atmosphere and past all of that, depending on where you want to end up, what orbit you want to end up in, you'll do some little mini burns. And so, of course, we want to then rendezvous with a space station. So all of the orbital mechanics are... I do a lot of mini burns on this show. Right.

Just like a little mini. Just a little mini burn to get you where you need to be. So when you're up there, do you guys, are you exposed at all? I mean, did you follow at all?

The whole thing with the nerdlucks and when they played basketball against Bugs Bunny and Michael Jordan. Did that? No, Will, that's Space Jam. That's Space Jam. But they must have seen part of it when you were up there in space. I didn't. No? I didn't, no. Space Jam. That's a cartoon. You know what I did try to do? I do have to get this in, I think, because I actually tried to call Will from space. Me? Yeah.

And he didn't, he wouldn't take my call. So this is why I had to, you know, come on this podcast to actually get Will Arnett to speak to me. Yeah, this is true. So, so as astronauts, when we're up there for a long duration mission, part of our like psychological support is that we get to ask two celebrities, we get to have a call arranged like a video chat to the space station with some kind of celebrity. And I,

figured, you know, instead of maybe some kind of world changer, I wanted someone to make me laugh because this was a long duration mission. So I chose Will. World non-changer. That was your pick? I know. I know. I know. Obviously it was a mistake. He was not available? Did the call not go through? So I don't know. Well, I didn't know your number. So basically the people, so my psychological support people were working at trying to work it through their contacts, but apparently they tried to get ahold of your agent or something, but we never heard back.

No way! Yes. We could have done this from space. When I was floating and my hair was up like this, it was much more interesting. I have to go through his agent to get hold of him. How do you, how mad am I? Thank you, Jason. How mad am I at Peter Principato right now?

Could have been Sharon. It could have been Sharon Jackson. I think that sometimes we might not have the right contacts, and then also sometimes people don't think the emails are real. Right. So I did one of mine with Tom Hiddleston, and he said that. He was like, yeah, we got this email. We're like, this isn't real. This has got to be fake. But in the end, I ended up talking to David Attenborough instead of Will. So it was still kind of weird. Oh, man, a lot of laughs from David Attenborough. Okay, it wasn't really –

It didn't have the same comic value, but, you know, it was still pretty incredible to be looking. Listen, like you're at high enough altitude. It's like when you watch a movie on an airplane. Like you're just, you're goofy enough that you'll laugh at anything. I mean, Attenborough kills in space. Are you kidding? Oh.

I can't believe an astronaut tried to call you from space. Well, that is you. You're done. You can't get better. Well, now I have better context. So if I get to go to space again, you know, you guys will be my top choices. Great. This is great. We're going to have you. How about this? Next time you go to space, we'll do a live pot. We'll do the podcast from space. It'll be the first ever podcast. Let's do that. That's a pledge. That'd be really fun. I'm in.

Hey, I want to know, when you're out on those spacewalks, and you know you're going to get this question from me, if any question, have you seen any bullshit with UFOs and all that? Have you seen any crazy things? You could say that louder. Own that question. Sean would like to know if you saw any UFOs up there. And what do you think about the Pentagon releasing all that UFO stuff? Because you read it, you look at it, you're like, okay, well, that's happening. Well, people ask us about aliens a lot, but it actually, sometimes people laugh, but it is actually a really good question. Yeah.

If you think about it, statistically speaking, there absolutely is or has been life somewhere else. It would be way too egotistical to think that we are the only planet and we're so special that we're the only one with life. I am absolutely sure that there is or was life somewhere else, but also statistically speaking, given the dimensions of time and space, we might not ever actually have proof of that or proof of each other, but it absolutely...

has happened or will happen. And unfortunately, I don't have any proof of it. I didn't see anything special from the space station, but I'm sure it is. Well, then this interview is over. No, but do you watch movies like Interstellar and things like that? Do you watch them and laugh and go, oh, look at these morons? It depends. So you guys mentioned Gravity earlier, and that one, cinematography-wise, in terms of what space looks like in the field, they did a really good job of capturing that, but the plot was

really not very great. But then... You didn't buy George Clooney tapping on the window and saving the day? He was hardly in the movie, right? They killed him off really early. I know. Which was very sad for me. There's always, in those movies, there's always, you know, this magical gravity that's on those ships that the actors walk around freely with their feet on the ground. Is it ever possible to achieve some kind of gravity in outer space one day? Technically,

engineering-wise, it could be done, but it's also really, really difficult. So how you would engineer that would be, you would really need a really big space station, something kind of rotating probably. So I think in all of the science fiction movies, or even the early books like Jules Verne, you always read about stuff like that. And so I think it is technically possible, but I think it's been an engineering limitation. So we don't have that, but I wouldn't want that because we're

I'll tell you, floating all the time is so much fun. I mean, it turns everybody kind of into a five-year-old. You're just, it gives you this sense of playfulness and levity and you can bounce around or do somersaults or shoot down the length of a module all the time. I remember, I actually, the closest I came, I saw the dead ones out at Long Island at Uniondale at NASA Coliseum. Speaking of NASA. Yeah.

And I was floating the entire time. It's a lot like that feeling. Yeah, very similar. That brings me to this idea, too. I'm so glad you said it because anytime I see you guys up there bouncing around or whatever, I'm always like, oh, my God, is somebody's ass going to hit the oxygen switch? I mean, what are we going to do? Like, I feel like you're going to hit something that's going to trigger something because everything's exposed. So why is it, why?

is the International Space Station, any spacecraft for that matter, why does it always look incomplete? Can't we dazzle it up a little, make it look more attractive, get an interior designer in there, like close those walls up or something? Put the buttons behind a panel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe on the movie set that they create for these upcoming movies, they'll Hollywood it up a little bit. But why isn't it more attractive up there? Yeah.

Paint it a different color. Well, you know, I think if you look at it, SpaceX is making things a lot more attractive, right? You know, NASA's kind of, we've been doing things a certain way for a long time, but that's all, Elon Musk is making things all pretty and flashy. But aren't you worried about covering things? Like everything's exposed. Well, we cover things. I guess I don't really know what you mean.

what you mean by that. Yeah, we don't know what you mean, Sean. A toggle switch that can make everything explode. Yeah, this is not really a thing. Everything's exposed. That's not out there. Elon Musk, he seems, is he too goofed up all the time? This guy, he's talking about doing podcasts. It seems like that's all he does. Does he need to spend more time working on the SpaceX stuff? No, SpaceX is an incredible company. I'm calling him out. Why am I calling out Elon Musk? He's like,

He's really a visionary, and I think he is absolutely transforming space exploration for everybody. Of course. I'm sure. If you've seen the recent news coming out, they're going to actually be launching four space tourists this fall. So now there are going to be people flying to space that aren't astronauts. So it is really changing the whole landscape of everything. And he does things all the time that people –

have said that we could, that could never happen. You know, if you watch the Falcon, the first stage of the rocket land, I mean, everybody said that was not possible. And you watch every time I watch it, it looks like it's, you know, it does not look real at all. That's what it takes though, right? It takes guys like Elon Musk who are total visionaries, who have the money that they, the resources to pour into things that everybody says can't be done and just go, Oh,

well, why not? Why not just try, right? Yeah. Is there one general, uh, end game goal for all of the research that we do in space? Is it to eventually explore, uh,

- Yes, I had the same question. - Or is it just about going further and further and just kind of, just out of curiosity, seeing what it's like further and further out? Or is there an end game goal? Like how will we know when we have researched enough in space to answer a central question? - The research that we do has a lot of different objectives. And so part of it is just understanding more about what happens

to us in space or what happens without gravity on any system. So if you think about it, you know, every experiment that's ever been done in the history of the planet has this one omnipresent gravitational vector as always part of every scientific system. So it's kind of like the elephant in the room. If you suddenly remove that, who knows what different kind of results you might have, what different applications there are. So even commercially, I mean, there are different types of products and materials and plastics

and metals being investigated in space because without gravity, you can do different things. You can grow larger protein crystals, which has a huge impact in the pharmaceutical industry. So with a lot of these things, you have a direct impact to helping benefit life on Earth. So some of the stuff we do because of that unique environment of microgravity, we can actually do things in a different way, which can have...

have really direct and tangible results back on Earth, like pharmaceutical development. And there would be an ability to perhaps replicate that type of situation down here on Earth so we could grow the larger protein crystals down here? Yeah, well, I don't know if you could grow the larger crystals, but

what you are able to do in space is understand more about the structure of that crystal. So then you might be able to make a target therapy. So there, for example, there was a Japanese experiment recently that now there is actually a drug for Duchenne's muscular dystrophy that's in trials right now based on that research. So there are some really direct benefits.

Part of it, though, is just understanding more about us if we want to spend more time and explore further in space. So when we understand more about all the physiological and medical effects on us for a six, seven month mission, of course, that has direct applications to going to Mars eventually, which will be a three year journey. So understanding more about that.

And also in growing sustainable food systems, I think that came from an earlier question too. We actually grew lettuce during my mission. And that was so nice because you had something green and growing that you got to take care of and we got to eat it. And then the Russians immediately boiled it. Is that right? Or did I hear that wrong? We didn't let them boil it.

But it was a delicious salad and we had to send back half the samples. But, you know, to be able to develop these sustainable food systems, when we go to Mars, we're not going to be able to bring all the food we need for three years. So all these things are really important for life back on Earth and for us.

Jessica, with all of your accomplishments and you're not even middle-aged yet. I mean, you, you look like you're in your, your upper twenties. Um, what, what, what keep it coming? This is great. No, I mean, honestly, what, what are you looking to do when you grow up? I mean, like how, how, how much higher could you possibly reach? And I don't mean that literally, obviously, uh, cause you've been to space, but like, what do you, what do you want to do? Well, I am much older than that. So, but thank you. Um,

I think for me, the next thing would be, you know, what kind of what's next. I noticed right when I came back from space, like I said, I didn't even want to leave. And so I was ready to go back and I was thinking more about going back to space than I was about integrating to this completely changed planet that I'd come back to. Yeah.

Um, and right now at NASA, we have the Artemis program and we're, we're working toward going back to the moon. And so for me, you know, that was actually that childhood picture that I drew that I described earlier was being on the moon. And that would be, you know, my big goal. Um, you know, I think hopefully we'll get to Mars in the future as well, but the moon is that next step. And, and I would love to be a part of those missions. What are they saying that the plans are for, um, for, for visiting the moon again? Um, um,

What are they looking to do? Is it really to set up kind of like a station for Mars? Well, kind of all those things are true. So it's the Artemis program, and it was announced by the previous administration. And basically the goal of the Artemis program was to send the first woman and the next man to the surface of the moon. Actually, the new administration, the Biden administration, has now changed that wording. Just yesterday I saw to the first woman and the first person of color to the moon. So there are a lot of different objectives all rolled in here. But

really the main goal is to go back to the moon. And that is for, to me, three main objectives for exploration. You know, that is just an inherent part of us as humans. For science, there is a wealth of scientific data that remain to be discovered on the moon. And then also for all of those intangible benefits, like all the results of the Apollo program. You know, there was this huge burgeoning of all of the STEM fields when we were in the space race and during the Apollo programs, science, technology, engineering, math, all of those fields were

There's a huge amount of resources put in, and we're still benefiting from those effects in all different disciplines far outside of space. So I think we can anticipate that with Artemis as well. And I think they've got to clean up that PAR putt. I think that guy hitting the golf balls around there, I don't think he's still waiting for that. He's still got to make PAR on 14. I went to NASA once. I stayed at the sandals at Atlantis, and it was all-inclusive. And can I tell you something? Can I tell you something? Yeah.

Incredible dinner buffet. I can see. Guys, Jessica, this has been a dream come true for me and for us. Truly. I literally, I meant it. Like, I just, I could talk to you for hours. It's always fascinating to me. I love everything about- Next time you go to space, call me. I'll take your call. No, no, no. Call me. No, Will, you're done. I did grow up, you know, watching Silver Spoons and your sister on Facebook.

on family ties. I mean, I can make sure she's around too. Oh, you're going to rope Justine into this. Yeah. I'll do whatever it takes. I want to call from space. Yeah. God, I,

God, I blew it. I really blew it, didn't I? You really did. Jessica, I'm so sorry. I had no idea. I'm so removed from normal life because I'm just surrounded by people, Jason keeps pointing out. So then I'm just... I'm so insulated because I'm too sensitive for this planet. That's why. I think that's a thing. You know, it's a Canadian thing. It might be. It might be. Right on. What a delight. Thank you. Thank you so, so much for joining us. We could...

quite literally talk to you for hours because you are so smart and we're so smart-less. Nice. Yeah, that's true. It's incredible. It's incredible what you've achieved. And thank you for your service and all the...

all this stuff and the research you're doing on this planet and way up there. And for your patience with our dingback questions and our, and our hijinks. Thank you for, for classing us up. I appreciate it. You're so welcome. I mean, I, to me, Arrested Development was the funniest show ever on television. That's nice. I did watch Will and Grace too, Sean, don't worry. There you go, Sean. There you go, buddy. She faxed you, but she called us. Yeah, that's interesting.

Very, very, very nice of you. Thank you so, so much for joining us. Yeah. Thanks, Jess. All right. Thank you, guys. Bye. Have a great rest of the day. All right. Take care. Sean, how did you... How do you know an astronaut? Yeah, how'd you land somebody so... How do you guys not know one?

You know, I spoke to one of our producers, Michael, and I was like, I really want to chat with somebody from NASA. I like the idea, too, that you sound like a petulant child who's like eating a bowl of cereal and going, I want to have an astronaut. Yeah. And I don't want one of the fuddy-duddies. I want somebody who's recently just flunked.

Fresh from space. I want a hot dog and a hamburger and a bag of chips. You'll have nothing in my kit. Name the movie. And I want it now. Name the movie. And you want, I want her to be compelling and smart. And I also want her to be a marine biologist and an astronaut. How about that? Can she know Russian too, please? I got everything I wanted.

I got it. Boy, Sean, you're, you know, we got to tally up these guest lists. I have a feeling you just sprinted into the lead there with interesting. Jessica Mir. Yeah, that was very, very, very cool. I love her. She's great. You know, you guys know, I love that stuff. I think it's fascinating. Oh, me too. Endlessly fascinating. Me too. I could slushay it all day. Sorry, that's Russian for listen.

Do you think that that's a real story about how she actually tried to call Will Arnett from space? First of all, kind of hard to believe. Take the disgust off your face. Hang on a second. They said you can talk to anybody. Yeah. Anybody on Earth. You're off the planet. You can call anybody on that big blue ball down there. What number on the list do you think? There's no way you were in the top five or ten. It sounds like I was number one.

bro. No, no. You were down in the David Attenborough league. David Attenborough came, was her fallback from me. Yeah. Because you were number 745. He was 46. David Attenborough was like right at the top. He's like, of course the person you want to talk to. And, but before that in the top spot, guess who? Busy.

Okay? Too busy to take the call. I wish I had known. She wanted to call me of all the people on that planet. Just don't buy it. There's just no way. And it's so... And it really puts it... Talk about perspective. You know, it really puts it in perspective that, you know...

Literally the whole universe, she wanted to talk to me. And it's tough to be humble. God, this is the last thing you needed. And you probably didn't hear the phone ring because you had your headset on playing Call of Duty. There's a good chance. God, that's so depressing. No, he probably had his headset on listening to all his voiceovers. I don't listen to him all the time. No, you know what? I'm probably too busy reading like Proust or something, you know? Hmm.

That's usually what I'm doing. You know what, though? I think one of the most interesting things about her is in addition to her being an astronaut, she was also a marine. Bye. God, I smelt you a mile away. I smelled your bye.

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