Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Happy holidays and welcome to SmartList. That was really nice. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Okay, guys, so the gang said that we need to do some new intros, Sean. So do you want to take it away? We need a really good, solid intro. Go. Me? Yes, go. Okay. You got it. Hey, everybody, this is SmartList. You're listening to SmartList, the podcast that everybody loves. And it's with Jason Bateman, me, Sean Hayes, and Will Arnett. And what happens is we bring on a guest that the other two don't know about, and it's a surprise. I'm sorry, are you in a race? Because I've never heard anybody read something so quickly.
All right, it's all new Smart List. Let's go. So when you get Rick Rolls, what you do is your kid's like...
My kids rolled up on me in the car the other day. They were in Amy's car, well, just Archie and his buddies, and they were, they come up and they're playing, they're like, put the window down. They were next to us in the car, put it down, they're playing like some cool hip-hop music, and then all of a sudden, never gonna give you up comes on. That's when you Rick Roll somebody. You trick them, and it's a whole meme. It's a big meme with the kids. So you send people a link for like, hey, check out this cool video, and the video's got like some cool thing, and all of a sudden it just goes, and it goes right into the Rick Astley video.
$5 foot long. Yeah, and that's when you Rick roll people, you know? And he's there. Guys, sometimes you just need to turn it off and turn it on again. I've been trying to tell Will that for years. A techie Fonzie. It's a life lesson. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And we are rolling. Jason is in real quick before surprise guests don't say a word but snap for us, please.
Bingo. Nice. Have fun. I think it was a double snap too. I think they snapped with both hands and that tells me something. It tells me that they are cooperative. They are happy to be here and they have strong hands, strong snap. Yep. Oh God. They've got rhythm. They're ready to go.
Guys, not only is it a special day because we have a great guest, an amazing guest, but it's a special day because of a text I sent both of you last night in the wee hours of the night as I was on episode two of Arrested Development. Oh, my God, that is right. That's true. You did send a nice clip last night. It got me all excited to watch the show. What do you think, Sean? What do you think of the show? It is fucking hilarious. Scotty and I are laughing out loud. It is hilarious.
It's one of the funniest shows I've ever seen. Isn't... And I'm not just saying this because Will is here. I swear to God, I'm not just saying that. But isn't Will... And I'm not doing this to bait any sort of compliment for me either. Just truly, as a friend and as a fan, I just think Will...
Could have been so much better on that show. Yeah, I don't disagree. That's a fair assessment. No, he is ridiculous. Yeah, ridiculous. When you were trying to throw that letter in the ocean. With those terrible, flimsy, triple pleated trousers. Tommy Bahama, all Tommy Bahama.
Joe, you wore Tommy Bahama. Anyways, I can't wait to sink my teeth in further. Yeah. Well, I did it for two reasons. One, because I've always wanted to see it. And two, to get you guys off my fucking back. We won't be off your back until you finish all. We're going to come over and watch with you. We'll have a little watch party. Great. And then I can't wait to watch you, Sean, next year TV going, Arrested Development. Guys, today's guest is amazing. This is a fella. Yeah.
This is a fella that not only has conquered Broadway, but he's crushed it in film, television, and now is a brilliant late night host. I love this man because he's good, he's kind, and boy is he talented. He's literally in every movie that's come out since 2010. British? His name is James Corden. James Corden. You should have said yes and then I would have guessed it. Oh shit, sorry. There he is. James Corden. Look at him go. Look at him. Hey dude. James Corden.
How are you? This is thrilling. I'm so happy to see all of you. Yeah, this is so cool. My God, we're happy to have you on the program, James. It's really cool. I will say some of my biggest laughs in the last couple of years have been in your company. Well, I was thinking the exact same thing about you. I really was. I was... No, I mean, obviously, Sean, but...
I was, so I've been listening to the podcast. I think it's brilliant. It's really, really funny. I really, really, really enjoy. Oh, is Jason Bateman gone? Uh-oh. Did he just leave? Sometimes he does that. No. He'll be back in two seconds. Do you know why I think Jason Bateman's just clicked out? I think there's a bigger beef here. Hello. Okay. I'm coming back. Here I come. Oh, he's coming back. Here I come.
Yeah, I lost connection for a second. Are we still recording? Are we still in the show? Yeah, yeah. That was fun. I had a little detour. Sorry, James, you were saying, you were saying. Well, I was saying that I wasn't surprised, Jason, that you clicked out and left the show just then. I'm very fickle. You're the only person here on this who's never been on my show. Huh?
I started to wonder if there's something darker going on. Well, now, wait. Well, let's talk about that. Why is that? Have I not been invited aloud? You've definitely been invited aloud. Really? Oh, yeah. No, to be clear, I'm joking. Yeah. Well, you say you're joking, but why do you keep winking at me? I don't know what the wink is.
No, I sat behind you at the Emmys. We had a lovely chat. I'm a huge fan. I love Ozark. As am I with you. And then I thought, after that, I thought, oh, he's bound to come on. And then I watched like, on Colbert tonight. And then I'd say, well, he's gone to New York. And they go, yeah, no, he's a Kimmel guy.
Well, first of all, Jimmy's one of our closest friends. But aside from that – I'm kidding. No, no, no. But this is something I think the listener would be interested in because I find this kind of interesting. I know what you're going to say. And I would love for you to give me the full education on it now and our listener. Okay.
There is a protocol or an order in which one must go through when you do talk shows. Like one can't follow this or if you do this one, you need to wait a certain amount of time before you do that one. If you're on the East Coast, you must – isn't there a bit of a – and I defer all of this to my publicist who –
Of course. So I don't mean to hide behind them, but I do know that I love you. I love your show. I have nothing against doing that, but I'll bet you the reason I haven't is because I probably have just done one that you guys don't follow or that... It just hasn't, the timing hasn't been... Yeah, what is the politics of all that? Well, I'll take the politics for our show, which is we're more than happy to follow everyone. Really? So we will just, yeah, because I don't really prescribe...
to the notion of like just even network television. Do you know what I mean? So it makes no sense to me, the whole, but there's a huge amount of politics that I have next to no interest in ever being involved in. So we just always, yeah, I don't really enjoy even competition. So I was just winding you up by saying that. I would suggest, James, next time you guys exchange numbers and you call or text Jason. Now he doesn't get great reception in the shadow of his publicist.
I thought you were going to say, he doesn't get great reception in Los Angeles. No. Especially when we're rolling. Well, get ready because I'm coming. I'm not singing, though. I'm not singing. Jason, let me tell you something. I know Sean's done it too, and I've done James' show a number of times over the last few years. Okay. And I did a musical number. I can't sing. I did a musical number with Marty Short. Well, they did the singing. James and Marty did. And I just fucked around. But I did a musical number with Marty Short.
But we did a police detective stupid bit. And then we went to space camp. Yes. Which was such a blast down in Alabama. Yeah, all your writers and you are great. Hold on a second. So fun, Jason. It is such a blast. I don't need to be talked into this. I remember us talking at the after party whatever of Into the Woods.
Yes. And I... God damn it, I fell in love with you on that movie. Oh, that's so sweet. I was like, look at the talent on this guy. And that movie is one of my favorite movies of all time. Same. I love that movie. I love that movie. That's so sweet. Because I remember that vividly and I just presumed you would have forgotten about that because I... You have to know for me... God, no. When you came over and had that chat with me, when you left, I immediately called my wife and was like, you're not going to believe who I just spoke to. Jason Bateman really enjoyed the show. And I was like...
Freaking out. I promise you, all my life. I want to say that you weren't yet doing your show then. No. I hadn't moved to Los Angeles then. Right. Okay, good. Because I remember then when that show, when you started on that show, I was like, ah, now I get a chance to have another conversation. Go hang out with him on his show. I swear to God, all my life, I've always wanted to do that. And he loved Out of the Woods. And did Out of the Woods come out yet or no? No.
We're still working on it. Sometimes working on it. You know, we were saying extremely, or not us, it doesn't matter what we were saying, but Paul McCartney had incredibly nice things to say about you. Barry, he went out of his way, Jason's right, to talk about how talented you are. Yeah, so what's going on there? Yeah, what is going on? Tell us how...
how you guys clearly have a history. Was, is it England centric? Uh, when did you guys first start accruing blackmail on one another? Well, oddly, this actually goes back to a sketch. Um, I'd written a sitcom in, uh,
britain called gavin and stacy which had done quite well and people enjoyed it and you won all the awards and it's a fantastic precursor to ned and stacy because i did it was it was not but it's quite funny if i do an american interview and they go i love ned and stacy and i just to go and i just go thank you so much but uh that's hilarious so we did these sketches for a big charity called comic relief um yeah do a big drive on like a telethon on on the night and it's a
a huge deal in the UK. And I'd done a few sketches with my character from that sitcom. And we decided we had a new idea for it. And oddly, in the very same sketch that Paul McCartney was in,
The sketch opened with me and George Michael singing songs in a car. And it was that clip that we would send to people's publicists to try and convince them to do carpool karaoke. But the whole sketch ended with a big reveal of Paul McCartney. And the way you kind of get those sketches together is if you get Paul McCartney,
10 other people will fall in line. If he's doing it, I'll do it for sure. How about the rest of the world will fall in line? Yeah, right, right. We'd have this idea to get Paul McCartney. I'd never met Paul McCartney. I'd never seen Paul McCartney. And I...
got in touch with his publicist and all these things. And they started listening to the Beatles. You're like, let me, who are these people? I want to start to listen to this music. This is good. It's got legs. Yeah. And they called and they said, Paul McCartney is going to call you on Monday at four o'clock. On your private phone. So he called me and I just, I had it all. And I went into this speech and I just said, I just said, look, the way these sketches work, Paul, is they drive donations on the night, but people also download and buy them.
for £4.50. And £4.50 is the exact cost of a vaccine to give a vaccine to a child so that they won't get malaria. So whether you want to admit it or acknowledge it, it's a fact that if you do this sketch, children won't die. You didn't say that you'll be saving lives. You said children won't die. Won't die. That's smart. And he went...
bloody hell, James, I've heard some pitches in my time. This is ridiculous. I said, well, this is nothing. I said, my wife was pregnant at the time, which was my girlfriend at the time. She was pregnant with our first child. We knew it was a boy. And I said, if you said no to that, I was going to tell you that I'd name my unborn child after you. And he said, deal. If you commit to that, I'll do it. So we did the sketch and we called my son, Max McCartney Corden. And I took a photo of the birth certificate
And I sent it to Paul. That's really cool. And three days later, this beautiful blanket, this cashmere blanket arrived and embroidered in the corner, it said, to Max, from one McCartney to another, love your Uncle Paul. Wow. So from that minute on, we'd sort of had a little bond. Which is so crazy. Did you ever think about like that blanket? Yeah.
how many kids' lives it could have saved if you'd not bought that blanket and put that to the malaria. I'm just saying. I missed that bit of the story. I sold it and I gave the money to Comic Relief. I don't want to go on about my charity work. I'm going to send you the faces of those kids right now. I have the photos.
But he called me last week, Paul. He called me last week because we did a parody of one of his songs. We did a thing called Maybe I'm a Mute. He mentioned it. So he called you? It was incredible. Like, I really had a moment where I thought, okay, I may have peaked where he called to say he'd seen it and he liked it. And the reason he'd watched that song was that Willie Nelson sent it to him on a text. And I was like, okay, well, then I'm out. I don't even understand how that's possible. Wow.
Hey, Willie Nelson texts? Sorry. It's on a flip phone, though. He's got to hit the one button three times to get to C. Yeah. Uh-huh.
That's so cool. That must be so, I mean, what a thrill. So what is your, I mean, you act and you perform and you're a presenter and a host and stuff, and you also obviously excel, and music is a big part of what you do. What was that connection? What's the music for you? How did that start? Which came first?
for you? Well, it's important to say I don't consider myself in any way like a musician or a singer. Well, you're a bloody good singer. Let's be real. I just think it's a different thing as soon as you say that you're a recording artist, which is just something I would never ever do. And I really love music and I love singing and anytime we do music on the show or any musicals I've been in, I consider a different thing. But when did it start? I don't know. I don't know if this is the same for you. I feel like it might be with
Sean, when we've spoken before, like I don't remember a time that I didn't want to just perform in some capacity. Well, Sean, you started as a pianist, right, Sean? Yeah, I started piano when I was five and then I thought that was going to be my life and compose music and all that stuff. But...
But first of all, though, you've done eight shows a week. Yes. Of a musical, right? Yes. That, to me, I have too. That's like... People can make fun of you all you want. You have to be like an athlete. It's like insane. It's... Yes. The stamina and the endurance is crazy on your voice. And it doesn't matter if you feel like shit or you're tired or whatever. At 8 o'clock that night, you have to be like... You have to be so on. It doesn't... I was...
puking my brains out one time offstage, came back on, did my song, went off. It's just fucking awful and also great. Are the frontline workers listening to this? It's hard. I get it. But it's interesting because since I've taken this job, I meet lots of people who go, God, it must be exhausting. And I do only ever reference, like, I did a play in New York called One Man, Two Governors, and that was, I'll never ever be, I'll never be as tired as I was when I was doing that play. That was eight times a week just...
just in pain, basically. Right, because Jason and Will, the play he's talking about, it's constant physical comedy the entire time. You completely falling down, running into things. Like, it was incredible. And you did that, I mean, I can't imagine your body after that. Yeah, we did like 400 and...
I think 490 shows in just under two years. Oh my God. But it was brilliant. I would say. You did it for two years. Yeah, we did it at the National Theater, then went to the West End, and then we went to New York. Yeah. Didn't you have problems with your, like broken bones or anything? No.
No, I did damage my eye. I damaged my eye, which actually just came back to haunt me about four months ago, which had been fine and then came back. But that was the only real injury. Most of it was just sort of aches and things. But I would say this, and this is why I would urge, like, Jason, Will, to do it once, is that play was the happiest time of my professional life. There were certain nights in New York where I... I don't know about you, but I almost...
always only enjoy things retrospectively. I look back and go, oh, that was a good time I had on that, you know? And doing that play, I was like, there were moments where I thought if I could stay here forever in this minute now, I would stay here forever. This is utopia. I've always dreamed of having the courage to do theater on that scale, you know, in England and on Broadway. I've thought about it too, and I've just thought, meh, too easy. Yeah. LAUGHTER
It seems too easy. James, you know, you mentioned you hurt your eye doing that show. I kind of don't have sympathy for you because my mom raised five kids with one eye. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. And then she died. All five kids only had one eye. That's just terrible. Hey, guys, let's go from that straight to the AutoZone. Okay, great.
Let me double back to fame for a second. The musical or the movie? No, the movie. That movie needs to get redone, by the way. I love that movie. All right, stop pushing me, dude. I'm fucking podcast. So it seems to me that you have held on to plenty of normalcy and jadedness has not crept up on you to the point where
I would imagine that it's not lost on you every night how famous these people are that keep sitting in front of you, that you get to talk to, that you get to come up with questions for. And are you able to enjoy that as much as a quote normal person would? Because it seems like you hold that for yourself and therefore you enjoy being exposed to all these super famous people all the time. Is that accurate? Yeah.
Yes, I think so. Because I don't know that it's necessarily famous people that I stand into. But my favorite thing in the world is to be around and spend time with people
talented people. I think, and I'm constantly blown away by how talented so many people are. And I find that infectious. Like my favorite thing to do on the show when people come by is I sort of, I think, oh, if I was shooting something with them,
well, I think we'd have real fun. Like that's how I've really felt. Every time we've shot something with Will, I've thought, oh, this would be one of those things where when they go cut, you go, well, and anyway, then they said, like, and you're straight into those pockets of, of friendships and things. And I really love being like in a gang. Yeah. But wait to Jason's point. Do you feel because you've,
what I'm sure feels like every person in this business, do you still get at all starstruck? Are you numb to the rush of meeting someone famous anymore? I can't stress this enough, and you will think that this is some sort of faux humility, and I mean it from the bottom of my heart. Like, I feel starstruck now because...
in this because I do. I don't... It's funny, when I listen to your podcast, when you were talking to Jennifer Aniston, I always feel like I'm an outsider looking at this gang. Like, you'll be talking about what great hospitality it is at her house and I'll sit in the car and go thinking, oh, that would be great. I don't in any way feel like... And I do think that's important...
with the nature of our show. I still am in awe of, like, I feel the same way now on this with you, Jason, thinking, I just can't believe this. Like, Arrested Development is just a huge part of my life. Will & Grace, I used to watch Will & Grace and think that was...
would be the single greatest thing just to go to a taping like I still have the same enthusiasm for all of it because I really really love talented people well that's what you can tell it's it is infectious you know when you watch your show it does come across that you that's what makes you a great host because you are our proxy to these talented famous people and you you don't look
you don't look bored or disinterested, you know, as a jaded person might. Well, he hasn't had you on yet. We've established that. We've already established that. Yeah, good point. But I also think that's a thing in actors. I do, like, I think... Tell me if... I'd be interested to see if you agree with this. Like, I think there are only...
Two types of actor in the world. I think there are aliens and human beings and neither are better. Neither are better. Like it isn't a better, but so aliens, you're like Mark Rylance, Daniel J. Lewis, Meryl Streep, Christian Bale, Christian Bale, Ray Fiennes and humans, Tom Hanks, Philip Seymour Hoffman, George Clooney, George Clooney. Like just kind of be us. They are. And so you can watch the same play.
Like I watched Simon Russell Beale do a Hamlet and Mark Rylance do a Hamlet. And it's the same text. And I was watching Mark Rylance thinking, I don't know how he does this. And I watched Simon Russell Beale and I thought, oh, you're me up there. You're representing us. Right. You are the audience. And being just the normal guy, it's kind of sneaky tough too to not...
chew it up, you know, unless you've got the skills like an alien does to really morph into somebody else. Yeah. And I think because it looks easy. Yeah. Like what you, like what you do on Ozark, for example, the stillness of it makes people, I think, think. Go ahead. Well, go ahead. Well, you got something, you got something fucking hurtful to say. Here it comes.
Jason, you know what? Here it comes. I love you and you're my friend and I don't want to hurt you. So sorry, James, continue on. And how dare you? He's working on it though. Yeah. He'll come back with it. Keep going, James. You were in the middle of a compliment. I'm sorry. I think people think that that,
looks easy and I actually think it's harder than doing... Look at Will. He's crying. I can see his smoke coming out of his ears as he's writing this. I think what Will wanted to say is Jason's stillness is a result of him not knowing the camera started rolling. No. No. I think that that's not true. Jason is really good and I think in those moments you see him and you think like...
Yeah, they've just turned the dial to the don't move mode. And he just, you know... There's a robot dial on my back next to the batteries. No, because I think it's all happening in there. But there is that thing. You're right. And I've worked with both of these guys a lot. And I will say there is...
You know, Sean and I had so much time. We did a couple of shows and we used to laugh our asses off and fuck around. And it was exactly that. It was cut and it was just trying to make each other laugh on set and trying to screw around. And then my introduction to working on a regular basis started when Jason and I worked on Arrested Development. And I will say, and I don't know if I've ever said this out loud, I learned so much because Jason had been doing it since he was a kid. I learned so much. I knew so little about
And I learned so much from Jason, from that experience. And he was like a friend and a big brother, and he taught me a lot of things. And he taught me with a lot of tough love, like, hey, stupid, why are you standing there? You know, whatever. But it was so great. And there is that thing, that human thing of like...
You're being silly and you're having fun, but you're really, you're enjoying it and you're really in the moment. And those moments, you do look back. I will say Arrested Development was the thing. I remember the second season every day driving onto the Fox lot and I'd hand my pass to the guy or, you know, whatever for the gate to go up and I'd think,
Every single fucking day, I thought, I am the luckiest guy in the world. Yeah, same. And I really, really, really appreciate it, especially after spending years struggling. I thought, this is it. I got to really remind myself, enjoy it, enjoy it, enjoy it. Yeah. James, I'm sorry. We'll get back to you. So I'm from Toronto. If somebody can ask me where I'm from...
And I'm a Taurus. So wait, I want to ask you something. So James, when you were a kid, did you have like a specific dream as in a late night talk show? Or is the dream just to do anything in show business? You just want to be a part of it? Or did you want to be Johnny Carson or whoever? No, it definitely wasn't to be a talk show host in any way. It came so out of the blue, even being offered this job. I was...
Even when I got off of it, I was like, what? I don't think that's... Was it a tough decision? Well, you said you turned it down a couple of times. I don't know if I'd be able to turn that down. I did turn it down twice just because...
I felt like I knew what I was going to do for the next 18 months. And I feel like that's quite a good amount of time to know how long you're doing stuff for. Yeah. And did the offer come out of the blue? Was it just like... Well, the offer came out, I was writing a show. I came to Los Angeles. I'd been twice before. And I'd done that round, which of just coming to Los Angeles and dying of encouragement of, you know, people just giving you a tiny bottle of water and saying they'd love to work with you and then never hearing from them again. Yeah.
And then I decided, I thought I'd written a show for the BBC, another show called The Wrong Man's, which we knew was probably going to be the last bit of that. And I had this new idea for a show. So I came to LA and I pitched it everywhere. And then it was one of those strange weeks where by the end of the week, there was like six offers to make this show. And then
The office got to a financial capacity, which I genuinely, it was mind blowing to me. I didn't even know that you Americans earned this sort of money and write TV shows. Like I cannot tell you how that is not the experience for any other country in the world. And I was like, this is insane. This is crazy. And anyway,
I didn't know this, but my old bosses, Les Moonves and Nina Tasler, who were the kind of chairman and the president of the network, have both seen the play that we've done before. And I...
I didn't know that they'd seen it and they made without question the biggest financial offer for me to see the show. But I turned it down because the more I thought about it, I thought this is a show that would probably live on HBO. This is the show that you had written that you had pitched. Yeah, this is the show that I'd written and I pitched. So I decided to make it with HBO and CBS just didn't understand how that was even possible. Like it was genuine. It was like four times the financial offer.
So I was in New York and I went to see Nina Tasler and Les and I sat with them and told them, I said, look, you're mad to be upset about this. I've done you the biggest favor ever. I said, I would have written a show that you wouldn't have liked if
You would have tried to change it because you've overpaid for it. I'd hate you for changing it. You'd hate me for being annoyed at changing it. We'd hate each other and never work together again. I said, I promise you, this show is never going to be on your network. You will hate it. And Stephen Colbert had just been announced as the taking over from Letterman and Craig Ferguson had said he was stepping down.
And I said to them, I said, look, I think that 12.30 slot is, what are you going to do with that? And we were just chatting by this point. And I said, if you don't make a show that embraces the internet, there's no point doing it.
I said, you have got to make a show for kids and stoners. They all still want to watch late night. They just don't have a TV and they don't care about a schedule, you know? Or they're passed out by 10. Exactly. And they want to find it the next day. This is a generation of people who just want to watch it now. And for our listener out in Wisconsin, a lot of people don't know that stoners and babies happen to hang out a lot together. Sorry, keep going, James.
And I said, did I say stoners and babies? No, stoners and children, I guess, to be fair. Kids, teens. Teens is what I mean. So anyway, then that night, this offer came in. Would you like to host the show? And I said, I don't think so.
And then they came back and said, the first one was like, do a pilot. The next one was like, just do the show. And I said, no, sorry, I'm going to write this other thing. And I might go and do a musical on Broadway. And then it went quiet for a bit. And then I went to South Africa to shoot this show in Johannesburg. And I was, I'll never forget it. I was in this like service department in Johannesburg. And I was realizing that really all I want to do
It's just be creative every day. I just want to be creative and hang out with creative people. And I was Skyping my pregnant wife. By the way, it should be mentioned that Sean also did a pilot right before he left LAX. I love the cheapies. Keep going, James. So I was Skyping. Never got picked up. Skyping my wife and I thought this is only going to get harder.
This will only get harder. Keep it clean, James, please. Keep it clean. I love their cheapie. Oh, my God. Go ahead. This will only get more difficult being away from them. Right. And here is someone offering me a job where I'll get to be around. And I started to think maybe you're an idiot to not turn this down. And wouldn't you rather regret doing something than not doing something? Yeah. And then...
Then I sort of decided, okay, let's leap into it. And we all just moved to America. And it was kind of born from that conversation with Les and Nina. And they followed up on it and said, great, put your money where your mouth is. Yeah, you do it. Right. Yeah. Also, you're...
You seem to have accomplished something as a talk show host that a lot of talk show hosts have not been able to do, which is be a host as well as an actor at the same time. I can't think of another host that does both. And it seems like you're constantly working. Like I said, when you're not doing your show, you're in every single movie. Because it's a 50-week-a-year job, right? Well, mine isn't. So that was part of the agreement, really. The agreement was I'd do it if I could...
go and do other things because I really, really love acting and I love writing and I love working with actors and directors. How often do you get to take time off? Is that written?
No, I have a good break in the summer. So that's a break where I know is there to shoot stuff. And then other times it's just an agreement really that if something comes along, we'll figure it out. And it's difficult and it's hard on the team. But I sort of feel without those things, I don't know about you might think that with this, with this podcast, I feel like side projects in a way, they actually...
re-energize me into the show more because I get back here in this room that I'm in now and I go, oh, I know what I'm doing here. You know, like, and it's hard. Sean, it's like cheating on Scotty, you were telling me, right? It just keeps that fresh. You know, you realize, oh, wait, no, I've got something pretty great at home. Yeah, for sure. You need that. You need that nudge, that reminder. So, so you're saying...
So you're saying, James, if you had to choose between only being an actor and only being a talk show host, you can't answer that question, can you? Yeah, no, I would act. Oh, well, there it is. How about that? But it takes you away from the family, and you can only see them, you will never go longer than two weeks without seeing them, but that's going to happen a lot. Then I'd be a talk show host. Yeah. Jason, what would you do?
Hang on. We already know the answer. Fucking monster. No, I am serious, and you can check this because I've bored people talking about it before. Being a talk show host is one of my dreams. It would be a very difficult thing for me to turn down. Wait, I thought you dreamed of being on Broadway. How many fucking dreams are you having? I dream. And TikTok, buddy. Everything. Hey, I'm an astronaut. That's what I dreamed of. Hey, everybody dreamed of it.
But for a lot of the same reasons that the routine of it, the schedule of it, being able to talk to a bunch of people that you admire. Same, by the way. I always thought maybe the hours were a little cushy and then Kimmel corrected me on that. It's not as easy as you guys make it look. Yeah, I've had the same dream. I don't think they have enough time for the length of your questions, Jason. Yeah.
See, that's it. I love to hear myself talk. So a talk show host. So the producer would be like, hey, act one will be the question. Act two and three will be the answer. You guys are dicks. When was the moment, James, that you felt, I remember seeing you, you were just about to start, and Craig Ferguson's show ended, and I did one episode of,
That's right. I guess hosted, and I saw you, but we didn't know each other. But I kind of said, and I had Kimmel and David Cross and Krizintia. That's right, and I had a big chat, a long chat with Jimmy Kimmel. It was the first time I met him, and I was blown away by his insane levels of kindness. Yeah. It's such a sweet guy, and Jason mentioned that he's a good friend of ours, and he's such a sweet guy. And you came in, and you were...
You were a known quantity. You weren't as known in America necessarily, but we knew who you were. People who, you know, who...
The tastemakers. The three of us are real. The tastemakers of America. Influencers. That was the other title of our podcast. Or influencers. Sure, that's a different way to say it, too. Coastal elites. Are we coastal elites? We are. By the way, we just got elite status. Really? It's kind of like frequent flyers. Yeah, we're coastal elites. Congrats, guys. But what was that moment? I know that you came... I remember seeing you and you were just getting ready to do the show and I just... Do you remember that moment where you kind of crossed over? Were you nervous at all at first? Like, were you...
running around and struggling to find your voice, so to speak? It was, well, I remember that day so vividly because I'd met John Krasinski quite a few times. So I felt like, oh, he gives me a legitimate reason to go over and say hi. And you were in the studio actually that I can see out my window now. And I went over and I was so blown away by like, and have been ever since actually,
by Kimmel's like openness to just be a person and just the way that he... As opposed to Krasinski who's a fucking monster, isn't he? But you know, Jimmy's like, I was asking him different things and I felt like, oh God, am I asking too many questions? But he just kept going, no, this is all right. It's okay. It's great, you know? And...
I think, look, we had to move to America and hire a staff and build a set and launch the show in 11 and a half weeks. And that was a crazy amount of time. But in truth, I look back at it now and I'm very grateful to it.
Because we didn't really have a chance to sort of second guess stuff. Right. We didn't have time to sit and scratch our chins going, but should it feel more like this? It was just, there's an idea, go run with it. And so quick because you have to, and it's like get through that day and you've got another show tomorrow. Yeah. And then we just knew we had to like hit the ground running. So we knew that we had no kind of goodwill.
with an audience. I hadn't just left Saturday Night Live or The Daily Show or a sitcom. There was nothing. So we thought we've really got to try and make our first few weeks on the air. We also knew we would follow Letterman for like a month.
And then he was going to drop off and we were following repeats of Hawaii Five-0. So we were like, if we don't do some really big things in this first four weeks, this is going to be a bleak summer. That must have been nerve wracking. Yeah. It really must have been. It was.
What's your executive producer's name? Your, your friend, um, Ben, Ben Winston. Yeah. Yeah. Ben. So, so Ben is great guy. Did he come with you? Had you guys known each other? He's my best friend. He was the best man at my wedding. And he's also, I knew the best TV producer in, I think in the country for sure. And so when I got the job, which actually he was the person that was saying, um,
you absolutely shouldn't do this. You absolutely shouldn't do this. And then we talked about it and we talked and I explained to him kind of what I felt the show should look and feel like and it would feel closer to a variety show. Then he was like, okay. And then I said to CBS, I'll really only come if my friend Ben can come with me.
And they, I think they, at first they're a bit like, oh, he's bringing his friend who's a producer. Right, right. And then they, then they met him. Then they met him and were like, oh, you're amazing. You should take over the Grammys, you know? And he's now like, but he is, it was really hard when we came to America because he's so handsome and charismatic. Yeah.
and then there's me. So we would go to lots of meetings where people didn't know. No, but wait, hang on. We would go to meetings where people didn't know who James Corden was and who Ben Winston was. And all they've been told is one is this new talk show host and the other is a genius producer. And by
By any one metric, we look like we're in the wrong bodies. There's the on-camera guy over there. That's hilarious. Are you still loving doing it? And do you see an end date in sight? Not that we want that. I hope you do it for another 10 decades. But for you personally, is there like a limit that you see yourself doing this? I don't know. In truth, I have like a couple of years to go on this contract. It will never be...
Ending the show will always be a bigger family decision than a professional one. Like it will be about people at home who we miss very, very much, who we're homesick for. And I also feel like
My wife and I, we have three young children and they are three young grandchildren that we've taken away from people. And this probably feels particularly magnified now during the pandemic. But I have an overwhelming feeling that like our family has walked to the beat of my drum for a very long time. And we should probably continue.
And I also don't know genuinely, and I'm interested to know what you think about this, Jason and Will, with children. Like, I really feel very conscious of the fact that I don't know
that I necessarily want to be putting out the volume of stuff onto YouTube and Snapchat and TikTok and Facebook and all these things when I've got like teenagers. I don't know what that feels like at school. I think it's a different thing being an actor in a show or, oh, you've got a film come out and then you disappear for a while while you film something else. And it's so, you're always putting stuff out there. Yeah.
You make it harder on your kids' experience. Yeah. Oh, your dad. Your dad's been canceled. Your dad's trending on Twitter. I'll tell you something, James, too, that I had a very – I was taking my son to look at some new schools last year, you know, to move to a middle school. And his mom and I took him, went with him, and we were driving back to his school after. And I said – he seemed kind of down. I said, how are you doing? He said, I don't know. I said, didn't you like that place? He said, yeah.
I just wanted to get out of there. And I said, why? And he said, because all those kids, they all knew you and Mama were at the end there, and I just felt like everybody was coming over and just looking at, everybody was just looking at us and looking at me. Yeah. And I thought in that moment, and I dropped him at school, and I almost started, I almost burst into tears when he said it. And I thought, am I robbing him of a normal life and a normal school experience? And then I thought, he's sitting in a Porsche. LAUGHTER
I had a chat with a good friend of mine and she's a singer. And we were talking about the experience of going to Disneyland. If you're like well-known. And I said, oh man, I said, I'll never forget. I said to her, you know, we just, we didn't queue. We didn't stand in line anywhere. And I said, I'm looking at my kids thinking, you don't know you're born. This is crazy. And she just went, yeah, yeah.
But when you weigh it up with the shit they're going to have to deal with because you're their dad, not waiting in line is probably, you know what I mean? And you're like, oh, yeah, it's just all the stuff that comes with that. So that does play on my mind. It wasn't a group decision is what you're saying. Yeah, they have no choice. Yeah.
It is a weird thing. It's obviously not exclusive to any of us. You know, people who are on TV and film have kids and they've been dealing with it forever. And how do you properly, in the most healthy way, frame it for a kid, what it is that we do? I remember driving by some billboard or something or a poster and...
My daughter was at the time maybe second or third grade and she said, oh, yeah, I want to tell – this is near my friend's house. I'm going to tell my friend that you're on a post. I said, no, no, don't say that I'm on the – why? Oh, because – just instinctually I said because it's bad. Like you know how you sometimes incorrectly might frame money or something like, oh, don't talk about that grandma sent you $100 for –
You kind of frame something in a negative so that they don't brag, but then you've stamped something as a negative that then they think, oh, there's something wrong with our family. And it was a confusing thing that I'm glad they're a little bit older now to get a little bit more context towards, but yeah,
it's obviously something that is our burden that we need to figure out a better way to explain to them than obviously I'm doing here, but it's certainly not worth stopping for. No, but I think that burden is enhanced now
If you are just constantly putting out, you know, look, it's an hour a day, you know, you know, so it's an hour a day that gets chopped up and shared online and all those things. And that just, it just, it all just plays on my mind how far away we are from home. And I also don't, I really, really don't ever want to
be doing the show if I'm not just absolutely loving it. It was one of the funniest things I thought Letterman ever said was when he announced his retirement, he said, I told myself that when I got bored with this job, a decade later, I'd retire. And I sort of, part of me feels like maybe, maybe like it was a really punk move to choose to do it.
And maybe the really punk move is to
is to stop while I'm still really enjoying it. And then it will always kind of be perfect, you know? Yeah. You know, back to when you guys had those problems with your kids and stuff. You know, I have a dog named Ricky. And when I drop him off at the dog park, he's always like, can you drop me off a block away? It just isn't the same, though. Just be quiet until we're done talking about children. If you bring up a tuna sandwich, I'm going to... We still get along great. We'll never look after you.
All right, look it. James, you know, you've been in a billion things that I've all, like, hit. Hit after hit after hit. You're always in these things that work. Your show's a massive hit. That's why I want to say, as Chris Cuomo would say, let's get after it. Cats, what happened? Oh, my God. I haven't seen it, so I'm... I've not watched it. Um...
Here's what I'll say about Cats. And you can ask whatever questions you want. Here's what I'll say, and I really mean this. I had such a great time. I went to London for eight days, shot the song with a brilliant group of actors. They're all massive stars. Judy Dench and Ian McKellen and Idris and all these people. And I just, like, I had a blast.
So I think you have to be really, really careful not to judge whether something was valuable to you as to whether it's successful at the box office. Right. It's nothing to do with one another. Because I've had really miserable times on things that are really successful. And I'm like, well, that was a really shit time in my life. So actually...
I should never look upon that as a success. And vice versa. I love that you said that you had a great time. That's always the mark for me anyway, because I, yeah, I've done a lot of films and worked with a lot of people and had a lot of fun and had a great time in their great moments in my, in my life. Yeah.
And I think that that is truly, I mean. It's almost harder. You know, it's almost harder. It is amazing how rare it is to have a really harmonious set for one reason or another. And there are many, many reasons why it can go sideways. It's a real special thing when you've got a bunch of people that just sort of agree either verbally or not to,
to just treat each other well. It goes a long way. And I have to imagine, James, and this is truly from the heart, that because of who you are and I've now got to hang out with you several times over the years, that any set you're on, any set that you are on, is going to be a great set because you are joy and your energy is always positive and you're always professional and you're always so freaking talented that
That's why, like, I saw Cats. You were fantastic in it. And everything that you're in, you are great. And I'm sure every set that you're a part of, everybody's excited to be involved. Guaranteed. Joy is the key. For sure. Joy is the key. I'm not saying me as joy. I'm saying just if you start every day thinking, well...
How can this be a joyful environment? Like I heard a quote, my dad told me something the other day where he said, uh, what did he say? Let me try and get this right. Uh, he says, you should never rate your opinion of yourself by the metric of the joyless. Like if someone doesn't have joy, what they think of you is irrelevant because joy is what you have to cling to. And like the best example of that, and this will sound like a real name drop, but like, um,
when we're talking about Into the Woods, like I just did this musical, a film musical with Meryl Streep again. Jesus Christ. The prom. And you, you, you, you play the part of one of my best friends on, you know, Brooks Ashmanskas. Brooks is amazing. He's one of the funniest people. He's one of the funniest people I've ever met in my life. Meryl Streep is the epitome of what everyone should seek to be on a set, which is I'm going to take the work incredibly seriously and,
and I'll never take myself seriously for a second. I love that. She's in for the fun. She wants to be in a gang. She wants to, like, have a... She wants you to try and make her laugh if the camera's on somewhere else. Like, she is like... And that, you go, oh, my God, that's why...
That's why your career is so incredible is you've never lost the joy of essentially what we do is play dress up and put on a show. And this can be really serious. You can be doing something. We have a seed in the thing. The two of us are like crying our eyes out in a hotel room. It took us three days to shoot. But in between those bits, she's telling me stories about this and that. And you go, that's it. You can't lose the joy of the greatest thing you can do
Like if any of us could have a conversation, any of the four people here could have a conversation with your 12 year old self and say, this is what your life's going to be like. His head would explode. His head would explode. And I, I just never tried to stop that feeling. And I could, there was people on our show will tell you, I can be grouchy as fuck sometimes and boring, all those things. But I,
I try my absolute best to just go, this is just a gift. And at some point, we're all going to get a tap on the shoulder that goes, hey, buddy, you're not really wanted anymore around here. And what you want to do is go look back and go, I made a lot of friends and I really spent a lot of the day laughing.
I couldn't agree more, James. It's the most important thing to me. I spend my whole... Every day, these guys are looking for different ways to have fun, and it's the only way... And I said... I had a friend of mine that said to me recently, he said... He was joking, but he said... I said something stupid, and he said, grow up. And I said...
Why? Yeah. You know, people have been tapping Will on the shoulder for several years, but he just swats it away like it's a fly. Well, that's just because I take a long time to pee. It's just because my bag is so full often. And then sometimes the hose gets caught. Sure. James, you're brilliant. We love you. I don't want to take up any more of your time. Yes. I've got one question, which I'm keen to know from you three, just while we're on this thing. I have a question for you, if that's okay. I'm interested to know, are you three friends?
Do you think you're good now at separating yourself and your career? Do you know what I mean? Because I think every sort of actor performer when they start, their entire life is about what am I doing? Who am I working with? Is it impressive enough? Am I all these things? Are you, do you consider yourselves people that are good at separating? Well, this is me and this is my work. And if this goes away, I still exist. Absolutely. 100%. I started that years ago.
or at least I tried to years ago, where, yeah, exactly what you just said. You can't invest in defining yourself by this business and your stature in it. You'll be a miserable human being. Yeah, I made the mistake of doing that when I was younger. And then when it went away, I had no self-worth, no self-value. It was horrific. And I felt so foolish to identify myself with something that...
you know, is not a, it's not a meritocracy, you know, no, no real art is, it's all sort of subjective. And I always say the thing that Jason Bateman said to me years and years and years ago, which is, I love you. None of this is up to you. Oh yes. He said, none of this is up to you. I think the thing like with Jason was saying that with Jason, for instance, when you scratch the surface,
It's just more surface. But no, I honestly, I stopped a long time ago pegging my happiness and my self-worth to what I do. And it's completely, it's been a few years now. But for me, it's about...
friends like these guys and it's about my kids and it's about my life. And that comes first and foremost and everything else. And I mean, everything else comes second to that. Yeah. You can't. Yeah. We said it all. I don't know if I envy those who work in an occupation that, that is a meritocracy, but it's maybe I do. I think it's, it's really admirable. The people that find themselves in an occupation where they're,
it's a requirement that you go to eight years of school and you have this diploma and you have the certificate of, of, uh,
Those who are doctors and lawyers and these technicians, I admire that. And if you are the best at that, it's quantifiable. In our world, there is no best. It's all just kind of up to the audience. There's something great about that, but there's also something that's terrifying about that too. If you have a degree in acting, but you're bad...
Right. It doesn't matter. I'm just an expert at third-degree burns. You know what I mean? Oh, God. There we go. Third-degree burns. Got it. Okay.
But James, thank you. We found something to trim out. Thank you so much for being here. We're all huge fans and Jason's going to be on your show by then. Tomorrow. Can you get ready? Sean and I are going to come. We're going to be in the audience when Jason finally comes on the show. Yeah, Jason should be on your show and just me and Will on the audience. That would be tremendous. I would love that so much. Nothing would give me more pleasure. This has been the absolute...
highlight of my day and anytime I've been lucky enough to be in your orbits I've always always thought well this is this is why you moved to America to hang out with people like this I mean it and I'm so thrilled to be on your show and I will forever be a fan and hopeful friend of all three of you thank you bye bye bye bye bye bye bye
James, you're the best. Thanks for being here. James, you're the best. Thank you, pal, so much. God, that was fun. Loved it. See you soon. Bye, buddy. Bye. That was great. That thing he said towards the end, I know what I wanted to say now. It was like, a lot of the times, and tell me how you guys feel, a lot, certain, I'll say, actors, uh,
or other producers, directors, writers, whatever, they wake up thinking America or the world is waiting with bated breath about their next move. No. They think like- They're just not. Right? Nobody cares. They care when it comes out. They're like, oh, I love that person.
Or I love that director. I love that writer. And then they still might not see it. I can't tell you how many films or directors that I love or actors that I love are like, I'm going to see everything they do. And I still might forget to go see – like it's so thin to everybody else. Right. It feels like the world to the people who are doing it. And it should so that you have a good time doing it. But you can't control the outcome. So better have fun while you're doing it. But really interesting to get to talk to him for that long because he's –
It's always like in seven minute bits on his show. So, you know, and you talk in the middle of commercials, but just to get to know him further and get inside his head, it was really cool. What do you say like during the commercial when they go to the music and you'd like turn to him and go like, it's going pretty good, right? How are you? Everybody in my family was like, when I was first going through the talk, she was like, what do you guys talk about when they start whispering? I'm like,
nothing. You just start saying, thanks for having me here today. I want to see a talk show host, too, because it is sort of a cliche. Like, as you go to commercial, they always, like, lean in and, like, kind of, like, whisper to the guests, like, well, why don't they do that while they're... Just once I want to see a talk show host, just stare at the guest and just not make any move to talk to them as you go to commercial. Well, Letterman used to, for most guests, not talk to them in between. No, right. And kind of famously. And Carson would smoke a little bit.
Carson would smoke a little bit. He has a lash tray right there. Take a couple hits off a cigarette. And now James Corden is one of those talk show hosts. Yeah. Yeah, but he's such a naturally great guy. And he does have, I think, one of the reasons that we, I mean, the three of us respond to him so well, not only as a good host, but also he is...
And he said that he'd be an actor over being a host. I mean, he is an actor at heart. And people go... It's one of those things I fucking hate is people say, oh, fucking actors. And like, oh, do you know actors? Like, some of the best...
greatest people in my whole, in my life. All my, so many of my friends are actors. They're incredibly creative, talented people. Right. Same. And, and people who disparage them. There are some doozies though. No, I don't disagree with that, but there are doozies everywhere. That's true. You think investment bankers aren't 99% douchebags?
99's a big number. They're the fucking worst. Can you imagine how boring it is listening to a bunch of hedge fund guys? Can I speak to the hedge fund folks in our audience? This will does not speak for you. And I have a good... I have a couple good friends who are bankers, who have been for years, who are...
who are the exception to the rule. The 1%. They are. They are. My friend Dan is one of the funniest, greatest, nicest guys you'll ever meet, and he's a banker. Too late. I think he just deleted your number. You can't save it. You can't save it. I just saved it. That's considered a save. You already deleted it. You know what I think, though, because you tried to save that, I think it's time to... Save. Save. Save.
Bye. Bye. Bye. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. If you like SmartLess, you can listen early and add free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.