Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Hello, welcome to Smart List. I am Jason Bateman, one of the Less Smart hosts. Even less smart is Will Arnett and truly dumb is Sean Hayes. We each have invited, well, one of us invites a guest per week. The other two don't know who that person is. Some of it's going to be funny. Hopefully you won't cry and hopefully you learn a little something. So let's get started. Smart List.
Smart. Wise. Smart. Wise.
Hey, fellas. Hey, guys. What's going on? Great to see you guys. It's great to see you, too. Did you work out this morning? You look like you've shed a little water weight. Okay, you know what? Actually, I have. And yesterday, Sean, Jason and I were hanging out, and he made a comment that somehow I look like I'm holding water. And do I look like I'm holding water? Be honest. No. Will, you look great. You're the father of four, five, six, seven kids. Three and a half kids. Three and a half kids.
Wait, who owns the other half? I was going to say this the other day. You said something, I forget what show it was, but one of our shows you said you've got like 17. Have you ever noticed any time people make up a number that they're trying to say like, you've got 17 kids, people always say 17? Yeah. Have you ever noticed that? Yes. And I notice it because 17 is actually my lucky number, and Jason knows this for a fact. Speaking of 17, this guy, now, you know, Will has a
custom-made golf balls to put the number 17 on his golf ball. That's a true story. Why 17? Because he's a Wendell Clark fan. Greatest hockey player. So when this guy, remember, low score is, when you're playing golf, you want to not swing, you know, so many times. Low score wins.
He looks down at the ball before every swing and he's looking at a 17. That's my number. This is why you're a terrible golfer. Put a one down there. I will say I grew up and I love Wendell Clark, but of course Shani, our friend Shani, is also one of the all-time greats. Because I feel like Shani sometimes feels like, wow, you really love Wendell and there's not enough left. What was Shanahan's? Shani was in the Hall of Fame. What was his number though? Shani was 14. 14.
Oh, that's a better score than 17. Well, yeah. Save you three strokes on the next hole. Anyway, thank you. Thank you for, I guess this all comes back to thank you. I did work out this morning.
Guys, here's what I love about our little show. In addition to bringing on friends and getting to know something about them that we don't already know, we get to bring on people we've always wanted to meet. Yeah. And for some reason they say yes, and I don't know why. Are you segueing into the intro right now? Yeah, this is it.
This is one of the all-time great segues. Thank you. Yeah. It was subtle and smooth. And it started with, guys. Yeah. But I've always wanted to meet this guy. He was born in Barquisimeto, Venezuela, and he got his own star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame just last year for his advocacy of the arts. He is, now this is going to give it away, the artistic director of the LA Philharmonic,
And besides receiving a billion awards for being the world's most awesome conductor, he conducted, get this, this is when I kind of perked up, he conducted the score for Star Wars The Force Awakens, and he also conducted the upcoming Steven Spielberg adaptation of West Side Story. Happens to be my favorite musical, and there's a million other things we're going to talk about. Please welcome the unbelievable Gustavo Dudamel. Wow.
Hello. I am absolutely floored. Hello. I was having such a fun here listening to you. My God. Oh, my God. You know, Sean, I have to say, so Gustavo, I hesitate even calling you by your first name. I feel like it should only be Mr. Dudamel. Show some respect.
Because Sean and I share a deep, deep love for classical music. And I have been fantasizing like, God, if I could somehow book Gustavo Dudamel, it would blow Sean's mind. I can't believe you have Gustavo Dudamel. No, but it's such a pleasure to be with you. Thank you so much for joining us. Who named you Gustavo? Like which one of your parents are like, I know, Gustavo. It's because a poet, you know, called Gustavo Adolfo Becker.
you know, Spanish poet. And, and, and he's very famous in the, in the Spanish, you know, uh, literature and all of that. So it wasn't a family name or anything? No, I'm the first Gustavo, you know, Gustavo the first. What do they call you for short? Do they, does anybody call you Gus? Oh, but they don't. No, they call me in different ways, but they, when they are angry, they call me Gustavo Adolfo, of course, you know, but, um, generally, um, um,
My little one, mi chiquito. Mi chiquito. Exactly, my little one. Then my grandmother and my mother, they call me like that. But I'm Gustavo, Gus. Some people call me Gus. Wait, do you have brothers and sisters that get angry and call you that? Well, I have a sister that is the same age of my son, you know? So she's like my daughter. Wow. So yes, I was an only child for 30 years. Oh, wow. And I have a beautiful daughter.
Wow. Oh, wow. That's so great. And do you live here in Los Angeles? You must. I live in Los Angeles. Yes. I, you know, before the COVID thing. Yeah. I was traveling, you know, nonstop around the world. Even like since I'm,
married four years ago around four years ago i stopped traveling so much but um but i'm traveling all the time but i i can call los angeles a home you know oh that's so right now you would be doing the the portion of the season at the hollywood bowl yes but obviously that is is not happening so are you have you been i guess you can't really be traveling either so you take you know
just some home time and hanging out with your wife and kid? - Yes, yes. All of these complexities I see as opportunities. For me, being traveling, being working in a very fast speed, I always say that we were living before the quarantine a prestissimo tempo, that is very fast. And now we go to an andante moderato,
We can say... Nice walking tempo. Exactly. I think... Sean, let him finish. Sorry. And I think for the next chapter, you know, after all of this past, I believe I want to leave, you know, an allegro calmo. You know, I don't want to get back, you know, to the same amount of...
you know, things, you know. Craziness. Yes. Because you always go, go, go, go. I can't imagine with your energy and always, you know, doing everything, it seems, that this quarantine, this downtime, I just imagine you would go crazy. Like, how do you fill the time? No, no. Well, I'm crazy because I cannot move in front of the orchestra, you know. Right. You know, I need that exercise. But I think, you know, I'm
The work of a conductor is a lot about reflection, you know, the interpretation, what you want to make from the notes that you are showing to the orchestra in a way, you know, with your movements and all of that. And it has been a great time for me to go deeply in a lot of things that I was doing. Not the things that I will do, but things that I was doing. I think that it has been the process for me to go to...
to other levels of the things that I do generally. And, you know, it comes from simplicity. You know, I'm rereading a lot of books. I'm reading new books. I have learned about myself a lot of things. I can cook really well. I can clean. You know, I can... I've been reading a lot too, actually, recently, in all seriousness. And I was reading...
There are a lot of parallels between wartime and what we're going through right now. And I was reading about a book about not necessarily about the World War II, but about how people lived in Europe during that time. And so it wasn't as much a focus on the war itself, but about the people who were living there on either side and how similar it is. Of course, it's not there's not the same.
but sort of the mentality that was going on and that sort of the feelings that people were feeling were very, very similar. The hopelessness. Yeah. And I was thinking about what you said, Gustavo. It's great that you said that, like, a lot of reflection. And as a conductor, it's a lot about reflection. And in this time, it has forced a lot of us to reflect on how we live our lives and what is important to us. I've been doing the same thing. And speaking of World War II, it reminds me of a great Churchill quote that I've been thinking a lot about in this time, which is,
never let a good crisis go to waste. And that's how, that's been my, I love that. My mindset lately has been, yeah, just, I got to, in this time, use this. What can I take out of it? And so you thought, well, let's start with the tan, right? So let's just try to get my skin looking as healthy as possible. You know, Jason, it's called a quarantine.
Okay. It seems like even since last week that maybe, did you fall asleep inside the bed?
What happened was the nozzle broke. I mean, the sun just follows you. The nozzle broke on the canister and it all came out at once. You follow the sun around the planet, right? Because that's not a color you can get just during day hours in our country. No, I had them build me a special plane that's a convertible, convertible jet. So Gustavo, you know, a lot of people think that
I remember being a kid, like, thinking, like, watching conductors going, well, how hard could it be? They just wave their arms around and, you know, like, the orchestra knows the notes to play and where to come in, but there's obviously a billion things to, you know, to it that's ridiculous. So explain how you shape a piece as the leader of the band, you know, because...
By the way, don't your arms ever get tired from holding them up that long? Because like- The shoulders, the shoulders on them are fantastic. Because I did some conducting in college and I thought that was going to be what I was going to do with my life. But all my gestures and arm movements were so gigantic. People just looked like I was a crazy person. They looked at me like I was insane. And now, yes, of course, it's more than the movements for sure. Right. You know, and- Don't you see movies where people play conductors and they're just kind of like-
They're just really bad at it. Yeah, but it's, you know, I think every movement have to reflect, you know, the music. It have to shape the music that you are conducting. And it shape different things. It shape the volume, the tempo, how fast, how slow, these kind of different things. But I believe our...
Our work is a lot, as we were talking, reflection, you know, it's a lot of about philosophical point of view of an interpretation. Imagine to interpret Beethoven's symphony.
that have been playing, you know, for the last 200 years, you know, in different kind of styles, you know. And then you arrive to an orchestra that have played a thousand of times also with the great conductors. And then you arrive with a new idea, how to convince them of that idea that makes sense, you know, musically, makes sense artistically. And it's a lot of also about
I think the most beautiful process is the rehearsal process. When you are preparing something, if you have the chance to go to a rehearsal because people see, you know, the performance and, but the process is really interesting with hundred people in front of you, uh,
And now you are arriving at 10 o'clock in the morning and then you have 100 people there, you know, with different realities, you know. Yeah, yeah. And then you want to inspire them. You want to convince them that there are other thousand ways to interpret that music that they have played a lot of times before.
So it's a beautiful process. It's an invisible transformation. Sometimes you cannot see and you have to play a lot with the energy of the people. You know, from the podium where you are, I can see all the faces, you know, and you can see, you know, this guy have a problem. This lady, you know, is ultra happy. This one is... And you have to put all of that energy in one box, you know, and take that and put more, even more there. So...
Right. It's a lot about psychology, philosophy. And that is the thing, you know, it's not only to, it's fun, you know, I think with the time, and sorry that I speak too much. No, no, please. Oh my God, I could listen to you all day. But I think I was very exuberant in the way as I was conducting for when I was a young musician.
Until now, you see an evolution in the way of how, because maybe some movements I don't need right now to do as before to have the same energy, but it's part of an evolution. And yes, my arms, I have to say, are trained to be moving all the time. But yes, yes.
Yeah. So for a listener who has never been to see an orchestra play, but has been to many different rock concerts. Okay. So if you go to a rock show and you hope that band plays the song that you know, that you love and they start playing it, but then they do it in a way that's complacent.
Completely different than what you're used to on the record or on the radio. Now, if you go to see you conduct, you know, the L.A. Phil or whatever, and let's say Beethoven's Fourth Piano Concerto is one of my favorites. So if you started conducting that and you started playing that at a tempo that is completely different than what I'm used to hearing, how much can you change what is on the
the sheet? What is acceptable? What is appropriate? What did Beethoven assume future conductors were going to do? Very, very interesting question. Really. It cannot be a capriccio. It cannot be an improvisation, you know, and especially if you are in front of musicians that they have their knowledge about what they are doing, you know, you cannot get and be crazy there in front of them. And
and improvise and, you know, everything has to be very well prepared. Although I have to say that since Beethoven premiered his concertos, let's talk about the Eroica Symphony, for example. Great. The Eroica Symphony that is one of his, you know, main masterpieces. And it's that one that he wrote for Napoleon and then he changed, you know,
because he got angry with Napoleon because the ideals didn't... Shot his hand out. And then he premiered that, you know, with a few musicians in a very small room. It was only one double bass, I think. It was only one cello. Imagine, we play the Eroica now with eight double basses, ten cellos. We double the winds.
You know, I think the music has a dimension where you can play with some things, but notes you cannot change, for sure. You know, you can change only the things that are flexible in the discourse, I don't know how to say, in the creation of the composer.
Is it like tempo or the way you attack those notes? Everything. It can be everything. But everything is in the music, I have to say. But in Beethoven, for example, he writes, for me, it's very special because he was there, you know? He was not allowed to listen to his music, you know, at the end of his life. Was that after the Eighth Symphony? Did it go away completely? Exactly, exactly. He was losing, he was losing already when he wrote Beethoven.
The fifth, he was, you know, he was listening really bad. You know that one well, because da-da-da-da. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. And then when he goes, when you arrive to the ninth, when you arrive... Sorry, sorry. Sean insulted me. That's okay. No, I didn't. I'm just cutting you off speed. I'm getting you... Listen, my question... Sorry to cut you off, Gustavo. No, no, no, don't worry. But just with Beethoven, did you believe...
the chemistry between Bonnie Hunt and Charles Grodin because I didn't. Because I felt... No, Will, we're talking about the music here, not the dog film. Yeah, not Beethoven the movie, not the dog film. Got it. Got it. I'm back on track. Not the 1992 movie. No, no, no. Talk about the composer, yeah. Got it, got it. Embarrassing.
To that point, Gustavo, you know, I studied piano at five years old. I started taking lessons and studying music and I started writing music. I started conducting in college and I thought I was going to do all that stuff. But the anxiety to your point of having to hit those notes exactly as they're written because you cannot improvise, you know, the notes are the notes. And so,
I did all these competitions and the pressure and the stress and the anxiety of having to do that. I was like, this isn't fun. Like, it's not fun to hit the wrong notes because you hit one wrong note, everybody can tell. But in comedy or like stand-up, if it's not going great, you can kind of, you know, massage it to your... And it's kind of incumbent upon you, one of the great elements of comedy certainly is the element of surprise. Mm-hmm. I accept that. But so sort of to that...
When you're about to embark on a new project with a piece that everybody's very familiar with, any one of these, and you're about to, what are the discussions that you have with everybody and with your team?
what are the kind of conceptual conversations that you have that's going to say, you know, on this particular, when we embark on this, we're going to do this? How do we surprise them? Yeah, what is the, as we would say in America, what's the blocking and tackling on this? What is the actual X's and O's? Yeah, and how far can you go? Well, this is a kind of a paradox because when you go to the stage, let's say for the first rehearsal,
You know, you have been preparing your interpretation with the score. You have the partiture, you read, maybe you listen to old recordings. I try to do that sometimes, you know, and then I stop for a year and then I go back and I check the things that I want to. But then when you arrive, this is the thing of conducting. When you arrive to the stage and the orchestra play perfectly, what do you do?
You know, what you can say, you know, and there is the point where it starts the recreation of all of what has been happening, you know, with this music. And there is a connection, you know, there is, I have to say, García Lorca, the Spanish poet, he called duende, leprechaun.
you know, that some people have, you know, people can call charisma, talent or all of that to connect, you know, and to convince in a good way. And for me, that is the most important thing. When I explain something, you need to have a reason for them. If not, doesn't work, you know, and the orchestras, they can smell the blood, you know, they can, they can really know if you are,
this is not really what I have to. And then you have to navigate, you know, that very complex water. That is why you need to have the ability to have your interpretation, to be sure what you are doing, but also be flexible to change in the moment that you are playing the music live, you know, in the moment that you are playing. And look, we were talking about Beethoven, you
You know, you in the music have the dynamics, you know, forte, it has to be strong, piano, you have to be soft, mesoforte, you have to be like that. You have allegro, you have to be fast or adagio. Even in Beethoven, you have metronomic mark, for example, quarter note, 80. He gave all of that information, but...
That is an information that can guide you to interpret it. It doesn't have to be because imagine everybody in playing in exactly the same way. And do you think that was expected back then when he wrote all of that stuff? Was it expected that all the performers? I don't think so, because for here in Los Angeles, we do a lot of premieres. We do a lot of commissions to new composers that we are very proud of. You know, this last year we commissioned 50 new works, you know,
And we premiered all of them. And you see the process of the composers. The composers, even when they listen to the music the first time, you see they revise the music, they change things, they change tempo. So imagine Beethoven at that time, you know, it was not the same speed.
You play one concerto one time, five years later, it was played again and Beethoven was already dead, you know? And then other composers were bringing, you know, their own interpretation of Beethoven. So- Again, Will, it's the composer died, not the dog. I just saw him, Will, getting a little emotional. Okay, good. Because in the movie, I don't remember him dying. No, no, no, he didn't. I didn't see the sequel, so I don't know.
Gustavo, how much do you, since obviously there was no radio, no records, no CDs, there was no way to hear these pieces of music unless they were played in front of you back in the day. Do you think that the assumption was made by Beethoven, Haydn, Mozart, the rest of them, that these pieces of music would only get played when they conducted them?
And therefore, their sheet music was just a reminder for themselves about where it's going, how to conduct it. This is where I want to get louder. This is when I want to get softer, faster, slower. And less a declaration or rules for people going forward. In the future. Yeah. Is there any writing about that? Have you talked to any scholars about that? Yes.
For example, for Mozart, for Beethoven, even for Bach, he's a great conductor.
He already died. Nicholas Harnerkort. He was an Austrian conductor and he was a specialist in this music, even though he was very open to all interpretations. But most of these composers, they were great concert pianists, you know. Beethoven, Mozart, they played all of their concertos, they conducted...
The image of the conductor or the work of a conductor didn't exist at that time. Oh, really? They were conducting their own pieces. They were playing their own pieces. They were playing, right. You know, in the middle, I think Mendelssohn was one of the first main conductors, you know, Felix Mendelssohn, that he was a prodigy and he was interpreting Beethoven and he rediscovered in a way Bach, for example, and
And yes, but if you see, you know, there is a lot of information to follow. And also stylistically, you can see, you can follow, you know, sometimes you cannot play a Mozart symphony with a thousand musicians, but you can play a Beethoven symphony, the ninth, with a thousand people in the choir and with a big orchestra, you know, and they are so close. I think all of them, they follow closely.
For example, Haydn was master of Beethoven, also of Mozart. And then the others were following that and they were developing, you know, a style. I think that is the development of the interpretation. But if you listen to, there are a lot of recordings from the beginning of the 20th century. The orchestra sounded really different to Haydn's.
how we listen to the orchestra now completely. But also the way to play. The way to play was completely, was very free. It was nothing there. And I love that. That is sometimes my way to interpret things. Is that because, do you think it's a function of
There's almost like an over-teaching and over-a sense that everything has to be perfect. Like everybody has... There's so many different resources now and people can study forever. And back then it was much more organic as opposed to robotic. Do you notice...
You probably don't want to say that, but...
He got some musicians to play his music and all of that. It was for fun. Then it got, you know, a little bit more professional and all of that. But I think that that is the point of our art right now. Is perfection where we are trying to find perfection?
But what perfection? Because if perfection doesn't exist, you know, it doesn't exist, you know. And I love that space of the perfect mistake, you know. I perceive that as a beauty of the real action of what we do. So, Gustavo, sometimes I get really overly sort of romantic about the notion that when I listen to a piece of classical music, I am traveling back in time. Well, those were the pop stars of their time, right? Yeah. Yes, most of them.
Mozart was the guy, you know. Those were the Beyonce's and the Rick Astley's and whatever. Everything. So when was it that Mozart moved to the jungle? Because I... No, Will, again, that's a TV show. I can't explain you exactly that because that thing was inspired by my history, you know, Mozart in the jungle. By the way, I did hear that. So that's true. Yeah. Yes. But weren't you on that or didn't you conduct something in that? I was a stage manager.
Oh, wow. Gael came, you know, Rodrigo, that is the character, came to Los Angeles as a guest conductor. And then I was the stage manager. So I helped him, you know, to get to the stage. And I told him that everybody hated conductor of the Los Angeles Philharmonic. Yeah.
Gustavo, I want to ask you because so many people think that classical musicians and conductors and all of us are total nerds, which we kind of are. I was and I still am. But they think that's all we do all day long. So do you ever like...
Whenever you're done with a concert and your adrenaline is pumping and you're feeling great, do you ever just come home and get wasted and blare rap music? And play Dungeons and Dragons? I love all music. You do? Is there anything that you don't like? No, no, no, no. You know, maybe there is music that I don't like to listen all the time.
But that doesn't mean that I don't like that music, you know, because I'm very open. I'm coming from, my father is a trombone player and he play in a Latin band. He have a salsa band. So I wanted to be a salsa player. You know, I wanted to be like Lafanya in New York,
and all of that, but I became a classical musician. - What is your instrument that you play? - Violin. - Violin. - Yeah. - Violin. Is that your favorite instrument or just the one you play best? - No, you know, for me to be a conductor, I really- - You have to know how to play all of them. - Not to play, but to know about the instruments, you know? - Right. - But I love the trombone because I think it was the instrument that inspired me to be a musician. I love the violin because it's my main instrument, but I love the piano, for example, that I play a little bit.
And I love all instruments in general. But yesterday, for example, I was reading and I put some Pink Floyd. You know, I love Pink Floyd. It was Dark Side of the Moon. I was listening yesterday and then I stopped and then I was, you know, studying Gurre Lieder by Schoenberg, for example. Or I take some rap music that I love. For me, Pink Floyd.
Music doesn't have any kind of border. That is a reality. I don't like, you know, to put this music here or this music is not good. Yeah. So here's a question I have for all of you. And I guess I'll start with Sean, then I'll go to Jason, and then Gustavo, you go last. What is your favorite...
piece or composer or whatever of classical music what's your go-to what's the one that that has always been the thing you go back to is that's the piece that i love that really inspires you know it's funny i was going to ask gustavo because i had i grew up with um this piano teacher who was incredible and her husband who was a conductor in the chicagoland area uh harold bauer if you're listening harold and he was incredible and he was a big mentor to me and
I asked him, I must've been like 10 years old. I was like, Harold, if you could only listen to, if you only could listen to one composer for the rest of your life, he's like, well, that's impossible. I go, I know, but you have to pick. So I would pick Mozart. I think he said, I think he said Schubert or Schumann, something like that.
But mine would be Mozart. I mean, sure, he's probably the most popular, you know, he is the pop music of the 17th century. Yeah, absolutely. You know, but that's my long answer. Jason? I am embarrassed to say that I still have not finished just...
filling myself with Beethoven and Mozart. I've actually gotten more and more into Haydn because I heard that he inspired Beethoven. So I was like, okay. And I have noticed the similarities there as far as the scope of it, the size of it, the majesty of what he wrote. And also Tchaikovsky too, I've found as well. And plus I'm a big fan of the Nutcracker Suite. And so, you know, I love that.
But Tchaikovsky's Fifth Symphony is something I've really gotten excited about. There's these fun sort of plucky parts, too, that get down really quiet. I love Tchaikovsky. Gay guy, by the way. But ultimately, Beethoven— I would say Beethoven's piano concertos, and specifically four and five. So wait, Gustavo, I'll let you finish. I will say mine, and I know so much less than all of you, but the thing that I do— Generally? Yeah.
When it comes to this. Only when it comes to this. I love Rachmaninoff, the piano concertos. Yeah.
Those speak to me in a way they're so... The second one is famously the most difficult piano playing out there, isn't there? Just dark. And also, do you know the song All By Myself? All by myself. Right? That's based on a Rachmaninoff concerto. Oh, really? All By Myself is. Yes, I knew that. Also based on it is... Do you know that commercial that goes...
The best part of waking up is... Gustavo, I have to apologize. That's also based on Rachmaninoff. Wow, that's incredible. Yeah, if you think of it, the best part of waking up... Yeah, I got it. So that's mine. I know very little, but it is something that always just speaks to me. Rachmaninoff always gets me. I don't know why. Who knows why things affect us the way they do. What about you? No, you are right. You are all of you in...
talking about the greatest composers, you know, Rachmaninoff is an amazing post-romantic composer and he's full of passion. That is what is Rachmaninoff about, passion, virtuosity, you know, he's full of passion
feelings, you know, even Haydn is the maestro, the master, you know, of the music, I believe. And Mozart, you know, even, you know, if you listen to the name of Mozart, he's also, you know, I think one of my favorite composers.
It's difficult, again, to say one composer for me. But if you had to. Because I will say, you know, for example, I love John Adams' music like crazy and I have the chance to premiere a lot of his pieces and he's a contemporary composer. Who is this? The Jonas Brothers? John Adams. Oh, Jonas Brothers. The Jonas Brothers that I like. But John Adams. Yes.
He's a Californian composer and he's great. He wrote an amazing opera, Nixon in China, and he has written a lot of wonderful pieces for the Philharmonic. But I will say...
Oof, difficult, but Beethoven? Anything from him, yeah. Because he has that crossover from the classical period to the romantic period, right? So he kind of covers a little bit of both. Exactly, but especially if, you know, I have conducted all the symphonies, I have conducted all the piano concertos, I have studied his opera, his only opera, Fidelio. But I will say, you know, when he was at the end of his life, he was writing chamber music.
He stopped to write in symphonic music. And for me, that is the most complete music maybe that exists. You know, when you go to the late quartets of Beethoven, when you go to the great fugue, for example, that he wrote, that is music that still, you know, in the modernity, I think no, any composer that have achieved
that kind of, uh, you know, level of intellectual, uh, spiritual, uh, all of these things together, all of these human things together in superhuman things together in such a small, uh,
Four musicians. The string quartets? The late string quartets. How come he only did one violin concerto? And one opera? I love that. Only one. And look, it was, I think he did also an arrangement for piano for that concerto because he's such a beautiful concerto. But I think it's because he was a piano player, you know.
And he was very close to one of these great violins. I forget the name that he wrote, the violin concerto, but he wrote also sonatas for violin and piano. That is also that he wrote the spring, all of that. The piano sonatas also. Did we just find our project together? Which one? A violin piano, a violin piano. We do, of course, but I have to go back to the violin, my God, because that is difficult.
I have years that I don't play. Well, both screw it up together. And what did you say? The perfect mistake? Yeah. Exactly. You know, Beethoven did not... He only did five of those piano concertos. He did nine symphonies. And then you look at...
what Mozart did, what Haydn did. He was not, dare I say, that prolific? Or am I, is that a huge mistake to say? I think his process was completely different. He was a genius in a kind of way. He didn't want to produce a lot of things. He wanted to, when you see the sketches, he's writing a lot of ideas, a lot of ideas. And to arrive to the piece that he wrote, it took a long time. Mozart was writing music like,
You know, like a computer. You know, he wrote violin concertos because he played the concertos. He wrote the piano concertos because he played. He loved the clarinet. He wrote the first clarinet concerto. That's my favorite. It's amazing. And this is maybe the most beautiful clarinet concerto that exists. It was written by Mozart. But yes, I think Beethoven was in a more, how to say, he was in another dimension, right?
in the sense of writing the music and the reason. He was also a star in his time. He was a superstar, you know, and everybody was like crazy about him. But he was more...
You know, maybe because he was not listening also. He got to that intimate world. Where do you weigh in on Wagner? He seems like a very complex character. Well, I have been studying Wagner these days, you know. And the thing with Wagner is the language also.
You know, sometimes to listen to an opera for six hours in German, that is not a language that maybe you are not close, it can be kind of heavy. But I have to say that Wagner is,
is one of the most creative and unique composers that exist. You know, he's the heart of the post-Romanticism. He's the heart of Mahler, of the beginning of the Dodecaphonism, Bruckner. He was a very influential composer, right? And so many young composers came. By the will for everything. He was vegetarian.
All the artists were vegetarian. Oh, Maestro Wagner was, he go back to eat meat. Everybody was following that. He was like, he was a god.
He was a God for the people. And he wrote these beautiful operas that I love. Of course, I get more close sometimes to Italian because I speak Spanish. So it's a Latin language, you know, and it makes more sense for me. But when I'm studying, for example, Rheingold or I'm studying Lohengrin or the Gotthard Dameron or Tannhäuser, it's also such a beautiful music. And I try to study the text to understand why that music is written. And...
But I love Wagner. So cool. Are there as many composers today that there were back in those days and we just don't hear as much about them because they aren't the rock stars of today as they were back then? Or has...
composing orchestral music becomes something that is not that widely done nowadays? There are some composers that are not play a lot and they are really good. I have done some of them, especially
you know, beginning of the 20th century composers. And for example, there is an amazing composer, the father of the American music, we can say that is Charles Ives, for example. And, and one of my last projects with the Philharmonic before the quarantine was to play, we play all his symphonies, his fourth symphonies, you know, and he's really the voice of the, of the American music, you know, because he,
It didn't exist in American music. It was European. The influence in classical music was very European. All of the maestros came, you know, from Europe. They studied with Brahms and with, you know, the main composers and teachers in Europe. And the education was very European. And then it came this guy, you know, writing folk songs, you know, music that he was listening from the military bands marching. So, and he created...
A world. Listen to Charles Ive because that is a composer that is unique and I love to do his music. While you're recommending composers, I want to ask you this before you go. If I wanted to continue to broaden away from Beethoven, Mozart, through Haydn, Tchaikovsky, who, if that is descriptive of what my taste is, who would you recommend I listen to? Luke, you have to go to Schumann.
You know, Robert Schumann, you know, it's like a minor piano concerto is great. Exactly. And he is the romantic of all romantics for me, you know. And did he precede those or follow them?
Yes, you receive all of that influence. Berlioz is an amazing composer, also French composer. His Symphonie Fantastique is amazing, but also his Faust, Dimension of Faust, is an amazing music opera. Mendelssohn is an amazing composer too. Let me tell you, Brahms. I mean, you mentioned Ives.
who obviously was so good as the voice of the snowman and Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. Oh, no, Will, you missed it again. That's Burl Ives. That's Burl Ives. Got it. Got it. That's Burl Ives. Gustavo, how have you enjoyed, if you have, conducting at the Bowl when they put the movie up on the screen and then you play the music from the movie, which I think is an incredible program that you guys do. We will.
I think I saw, what did I say? I saw 2001 there. I saw E.T. there. Yes. It's just amazing. They pull everything out, Will, except just the music. And then the music is live. It's a very sad time because for the first time in 99 years, we will not have the season of the Hollywood blockbuster.
boat and the other day I went and it was empty but you know at the same time as we were talking at the beginning every crisis brings opportunities and we are rethinking what to do how to do things but really you know I became a fan of the Hollywood boat
More than conducting, going to listen to concerts. You know, having the chance, you know, to listen to music, to share with my family at dinner and drink something and be with my friends. What's your favorite concert that you've seen there?
Wow. At the top of your head, I'm sure. Well, no. Look, I will go. I went to Pet Sounds, for example, with Brian Wilson. And I was dating my wife. And that was one of the best dates in my life. I went to a concert of Sting and Peter Gabriel. Wow. That was unbelievable, amazing. But also... Yeah. Yeah.
But also, you know, thousands of concerts. I have done concerts with Latin artists like Juan Luis Guerra and with Natalia Lafourcade, with Café Tacuba, and also the great classics, you know. I went to listen to a friend, you know, conducting Borgia symphonies, Jojoma playing, all the cello suites,
Only him, you know, on the stage of the Hollywood Bowl. One cello player, 18,000 people. That was amazing. So, a thousand of things. I love the Hollywood Bowl a lot. I played there last year with the Lebec sisters. You know, the two pianists? Yes. Great friends. The Carnival of the Animals. Speaking of empty Hollywood Bowl, right? Yeah. That's weird. Will, you cut out for a second. So, Gustavo, I wanted to talk about YOLA because YOLA, which is...
the Youth Orchestra Los Angeles, right, that you started. Because it seems like the first thing that gets cut out of the federal budget or even local budgets is the arts. At the same time, you know, we'll toss an extra trillion dollars to the armed forces when every man, woman, and child loves movies, television, theater, music, you know. So talk about that a little bit and why it's so important to you. Because I think it's
I don't understand why we're constantly picking up the slack for the government to fund arts ourselves and to expose children to it. This is a very important topic, you know. It's a very important discussion that us as artistic institutions, we have to talk, you know, because it's about education also.
And I think, and it's about identity, it's culture, you know, it's not an entertainment thing. It's not a luxurious thing, you know, as you can see art. Art have to be, culture have to be a right for everybody and it have to be an essential part of society.
The education of our new generations. Yeah. Contemplation, you know, creating beauty together, creating harmony together. Well, and also, you know, as a kid, like I started at five years old, like I said, and I didn't even realize at such a young age that it teaches structure and beauty.
goal setting and discipline you know and discipline yeah and how you listen to each other and by the way and spirituality on on a certain level too for sure absolutely and i'm not talking about religion i'm talking about actual spirit you know yeah all those things that are so vital to society
Yeah. But imagine that process. I can put the example of a child, you know, in his house playing a violin. He's creating his own world that he will share with other people in an orchestra for other people because it's the action, you know, what we create that goes to the audience and the audience receive and we have. So YOLA started because I'm coming from a program, an artistic social program in my country called Sistema.
that music is being used as a tool for social change. And it has been very successful since 1975 that my maestro created
We have achieved more than a million children having access to music as part of their education. And that was the first thing that I committed. I said, you know, I will go to Los Angeles. I will accept this amazing honor if we create something that goes to the heart of the community. And this was the thing, to create a youth orchestra that it's not only for playing or for... It was an orchestra to help to these children to have a voice.
Because we went to the communities with difficulties. And we are talking about that, you know. I think as Madre Teresa de Calcuta said, the worst thing to be poor is to be no one.
is about to be excluded. And that is the thing with poverty, you know, that is the thing with the unbalance of our societies. Then when you give the possibility to a kid to have art as part of their life, you know, you are giving something that is a treasure.
Because you have all of these elements, you know, you have spirituality, you have discipline, you are creating beauty for others and you are creating beauty for yourself and for the people. You can see kids light up whenever there's a music program or any kind of art. We need to give the chance to our children to have beauty in their life.
in the real sense of beauty, you know, to have the chance for them to contemplate, to create. And this is the thing with YOLA and it has to be the thing with our artistic institution. Our artistic institution has to reflect what is the community, you know, and sometimes we don't see that and people don't feel identified with that and that is why they don't have access or they don't want to go to that.
Because classical music is elitist. I don't have the chance to go there. But then when you bring the classical music, for example, to the community, they feel that, you know, they are listening and they are important. So it's a transformation. I believe that it's a beautiful transformation and we are in the right place. And Sean, I don't want to open up a bigger conversation, but it goes to your question about or why is it that
whether it's federal or state or municipal or whatever, cut funding to the arts because it goes – anytime you fund something like that, anytime you educate people, people in power are very threatened by that because education is a threat. And the only thing you can do is to hold them down. And the only thing that can free people from poverty, et cetera, and their condition, art is one of those things. The arts are one of those things that can – and education that can –
allow people to rise up. I believe in utopias, you know, I believe in, because I'm a result of a crazy dream that have these men. These men have only nine people in front of him, nine young people. And he said, we will multiply this for a million. This was Maestro José Antonio Abreu in Venezuela in 1975.
And then now you have, we have Jolla, we have El Sistema in Sweden, we have the same program in different parts of the world, you know, to use music for social change. Yeah, it's incredible. And I've heard you say that before, that you want to use music to change society.
And I think, you know, we were talking about John Williams before. Dare I say, I think you're accomplishing for Los Angeles and the world what John Williams did, you know, with the Boston Pops and the world, which is making classical music popular. Yes. And, you know, through things that you're doing and, you know, programs like YOLA and commissioning new works from new composers. And so, you know, in my eyes, it's a nice transition
I'm going to get a groan from my cohorts here, but it's a nice passing of the baton from John Williams to you, if you will. Because, you know, you're keeping the classical genre alive and kicking and making people get inspired and want to explore more. And so please don't ever stop doing that. Yeah, I know. I just...
It's still – you can still feel it in this city how exciting it is that you chose here to be. And please don't ever leave. I mean keep spreading that wealth that you're doing around the world in a very –
considerably cheap way. You're not distributing wealth monetarily. You're distributing wealth, as you were talking about, culturally. It's a very efficient and affordable way in which to do it, to empower and to enrich people that are less fortunate. And it is a very generous thing that you're doing. And we are proud as Los Angelinos to call you our own, at least temporarily. I hope you make it a long, long time though. Yeah, I'm an Angelino for all that.
Yeah, good, good, good. All right. Well, we love you, pal. Thanks for coming on. No, thank you. Thank you for letting me be here and have fun with you. Thank you very much. Just so you know, I know I put it out there about 10 times already, but it is my dream to do something with you one day. Oh, that we will do. Be sure. I would hope. We'll do something crazy. I would love it. Don't give him your number. All right. Thank you, my dear. Take care. Thank you, my friend. Pleasure to meet you. Thank you, Gustavo. Bye-bye. Bye-bye now. Bye.
That was, I'm just, I'm glad the listener couldn't see my stupid grinning face all the way through that. I just, I'm such a dork for classical music. I love that you are. Oh my God. And you know, the one thing I wanted to ask him, but I didn't think of the question until the end of it, and he was wrapping up in such a beautiful, eloquent way, as were you. I've always wondered, and you might know the answer to this, why when a conductor makes an arm gesture,
It is always a beat before the music happens. In other words, you know, they're setting a tempo and it's never right on when you want the music to happen. It's just before. Why is that? I think, and I may be wrong, but I've had that question before. I think it's because that's the way the brain works. So you don't want to be right on it because that's already too late.
Got it. And maybe it gives them chance to like peek at the sheet music. Right. And you see it. We should have had Neil Tyson on for that because light is faster than sound. So you see it and then the sound comes because it's slower. That's why. Right. Are you being serious? No, I'm not being serious, Sean. Shut the fuck up. Guys, this is great that we didn't. Shut the fuck up. God.
I'm so glad you didn't embarrass us more. This is what I love. Burl Ives, Beethoven, Jonas Brothers. Wondering what the chemistry between Grodin and... The chemistry between Bonnie Hunt and Charles Grodin. Did you believe that there was... All right, guys. Well, that was great. Thanks for joining. Sean, great, great, great guest. Sean, I don't know if that guest can be beat. Well done. Let's try. Will and I will be competing for the silver from here on out.
All right, guys. We'll talk to you later. Jason, I know you love this. Ready, Will? Yeah, I guess I'm ready. We'll talk to you later. Bye. Bye. So terrible.
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