Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Hey there, Will Arnett here from SmartList. It's the podcast where Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, and I interview somebody. Two of us don't know who that person is because one of us has brought on a surprise guest. That's the whole conceit. I wish I could describe it better, but I'm not that smart. So it's SmartList, and it's starting now. SmartList. SmartList.
Hey, are we rolling? Are we doing this? We're already podcasting. That's the great thing about podcasting. Sometimes you're just doing it and you don't even know. What about my tasty flair I've got online?
Oh, yeah, I saw that. J.J. Abrams movie. Did you have J.J. Abrams over? Yeah. Hey, did you guys ever, did you guys see that NXIVM thing, that documentary called The Vow? It's, you know, NXIVM's a little bit more for like. Yeah, like if you have heartburn. Heartburn or loose stools. There's an entire documentary about. Loose stools and heartburn. Yeah. Boy, was I happy when my doctor said NXIVM.
Like that kind of thing? It was that cult thing. I know what you mean. I did watch the first episode and I loved it.
I can't believe I haven't been back yet. It's so wild. Blame it on the Dodgers. I gotta say, and I mean this, and Sean, you know how much I love you and I've loved you for a long time. But... I feel like you could get caught up in a cult. Who says I'm not? That's true. I feel like you could just drift away. By the way, this guy said... Okay, so wait, I gotta tell you. So the guy, the crazy sexual predator guy who runs the whole thing... Sounds like a great guy. Yeah, he sounds amazing. Those poor...
Women. But anyway. It's so fucked up, man. It's really fucked up. But it's really fascinating that people can get sucked into that cult like that. I'm going to be honest with you. I saw that thing. You and I, you asked me about that the other day. We were FaceTiming on a personal FaceTime and...
Did I ask you about the vow? About, yeah. And I thought, I don't, it just seems too dark for me. I mean, as much as I like to, I can't take that kind of stuff. Yeah, I guess the thing that attracts me about those things is like I'm fascinated by
How somebody can believe that. Like, what point did you go, yeah, that makes sense to me. We're getting very close to a religious conversation, which I don't think would end well. No. And also, we have a really, really great guest today that I'm excited to... Pope John Paul... No? No. It's...
Could you imagine if we got it? Will's just booking. How great would it be if one of us was like, the Pope is here. Yeah.
That would never. And he still has the hat on and everything. Here comes Will's crappy intro. Let's hear it. It's not a, you know what? First of all. It's not going to be flattering. Speaking of crappy intros, I've heard some. I don't even try. I listen to the podcast. You don't try at all. I know. Well, that's, I don't want to insult the guest by trying to craft some big flowery thing. Trying to put any work into it. No, you don't want to insult them with that. Yeah, this isn't for work. This is just chat and giggle. Yeah.
Chat and giggle. Well, I am going to say this. Our special guest today is a really, really formidable person. He has accomplished so much in what I think is a pretty...
amount of time. This is a guy who... Is this Webster? Really started at sort of square one, worked in a bunch of restaurants, then started his own restaurant, then started multiple restaurants and businesses, then started a very popular TV show on PBS called
called Mind of a Chef, and then did his documentary series about food called Ugly Delicious. I've seen Ugly Delicious. He started Momofuku. Oh, my gosh. All those restaurants. He started in New York, and then Sydney, and Toronto, and Tokyo, and Los Angeles, and everywhere. God, he sounds loaded. I just want to get him in here so we can start talking to him. Our guest today... Unless he's left. ...is Mr. David Chang. Oh, yes! Holy smokes. Yes!
David Chang, look at him go. I'd love it if you were just chewing when we saw you.
What a pleasure. I'm so psyched you're here, David. What an honor. Now, first of all, David, why? Listen, it's that voice. His voice is just so soothing. I'll do anything. Thank you. Thank you, David. Welcome to Mamafuku. You know what I mean? I'm just saying, like, when you walk in... Wait, is that a new... Is that a new thing at the hostess table? I'm just saying, when you walk in, if you walked in and you heard that, and you thought, like, huh... Activate when the door opens? A server will be by to take your order soon. Relax. Relax.
Okay. I'd be like, I'm relaxed. And a little horny. Maybe a little bit horny.
You'd be like, is this a fuck restaurant? What's going on? David Chang, I've actually seen Ugly Delicious. It's really great. It's a great show, and you're amazing on it. I'm a big fan. Thank you. I need to go eat at your restaurant in Los Angeles. Now, Major Domo, it's the one that's not called Momofuku. Yeah, that's right. Major Domo. And the first time I went to Momofuku in New York, I went with our friend David Cross. Yes.
years ago. You probably know David. Yeah, long-time supporter. I do. We did a show together, Will. Yeah. Sorry, I'm talking to David, Jason. That was a cheap, easy joke. And he introduced me to the wonderful world of your culinary delights. But you've done so much. It is hard to try to intro you because...
You are... You're super young, right? Yeah, that's what I mean. Look at the guy. I turned 43 this summer. I don't feel young. Jesus, that is old. That is old. No, no, no. Don't make him feel bad. Only a 51-year-old can say that. Wait, when you open restaurant after restaurant, aren't you just like... Isn't it just like a big, huge roll of the dice? Are you just like... Yes. Yes.
It is. Every time I finish opening a restaurant, I tell myself, I'm never going to do that again. Ever. I'm sure. Ever. But I would assume, obviously, the more you do, the longer you're around, the more your clientele becomes expanded and the openings become less risky, right? And your brand is bigger. Yes and no. I mean...
In some ways, they don't want us to do anything new, but they also want us to do something new. So you got to find that fine line of pushing the envelope, but keeping it comfortable for everybody. Like a rock band. So you started, you worked at, I think I've got this right. You worked in a bunch of restaurants and you worked...
You worked for Tom Colicchio for a while at his restaurant. Top Chef. Yeah, of Top Chef fame. And you kind of bounced around. You worked at a bunch of different places. What was that moment you decided, I'm going to open my own shop? Because to Sean's point, it's a big risk. It takes a lot of guts. What were those conversations like to go, I'm going to do this? Well, truthfully...
The main reason I decided to open up my own restaurant is I was never going to have my own restaurant if I did it in a traditional way. Right. At all. There was just no way. What would the traditional way be? So, you know, I opened up in 2004 and I was still working for Daniel Balud at Cafe Balud in 2003. And, you know, I had cooked professionally for about four plus years. Not enough, but I had, you know, traveled around, seen a lot of different things, worked abroad. Yeah.
And if you wanted to open up your own restaurant back then, which wasn't that long ago, you had to be a patron to the restaurant and know the chef and say, Hey, I'm, I'm, I'm moving back to Minnesota. I want to open up a restaurant. Do you have a chef that you could like give me? And that's how like most people, most chefs got their own restaurants as a, you know, through, through someone they knew no one was like, I'm going to open up my own restaurant. That almost never happened. And, uh,
I'm a relatively competitive person. I looked at the kitchen where I was at. I said, Oh, I was probably 13 out of, you know, 13 in the progression of maybe I'll get my own kitchen. And I was like, I can't do this. I got to find a different way. And one of the things that I learned when I was living in Japan was, you know, food didn't have to be super expensive to be good. And, um,
I just want to do something different. So I decided not to open up a French fancy restaurant and do something different. And that's why. If I was better, truthfully, I probably would never have opened up Momofuku. But you've talked about it before. You were kind of over fancy restaurants. You were kind of...
you'd kind of had enough. Is that true? Yeah. I mean, I worked at most, if you ask a lot of people back then, they worked at fancy restaurants, not because they cared about the food per se or the clientele. It was the only place you could work with the best ingredients and learn the best techniques. Right. So in some ways, you know, I got tired. I remember coming back and it was a lot of culture shock for me moving back to America. And then being on the Upper East Side and having to, you know, chop a salad, you know,
even more and everything's sauce on the side and custom you know making everything for all of these so jason ate there yeah yeah yeah jason bateman is well known in the culinary world as being one of the most difficult people to cook for i have the waiter pull up a chair and this i'm glad that you touched on this and jason is definitely uh uh somebody who's guilty of this but i
as a Canadian, the first time I, I didn't experience that kind of like asking for special stuff until I came to this country. First of all, I never do that. What am I? Meg Ryan? Poor Meg Ryan.
Now she's in the same category as you. I mean, Sally. Harry Met Sally. Isn't there a famous sort of this? I'll have what she's having? No, different scene. No, she, yeah, she was very picky, yeah. But I love that. I love, you know, what she's having. That's a great scene. Wait, what happens in that scene? I don't know the reference.
But that idea of people going like, yes. And I remember like seeing some – being with somebody the first time they like sent food back. I was so embarrassed. I was like, Jesus Christ. And it wasn't because like there was something wrong with it. It was like it just wasn't the way they wanted it. Yeah. What I will do is if food shows up not hot –
I, I, for me, it feels like it doesn't taste as flavorful. And so I will. Even sushi? Yeah. I will ask the waiter to, uh, to see if they can throw it under the light longer or whatever. However, whatever happens.
Because that's how they cook it. They just cook it with light. Because I figured the chef wants the food to be bursting with flavor and the colder it gets, the more muted the flavor gets. Or am I crazy? No, no, you're absolutely right. Hot food is supposed to be served hot. Cold food is supposed to be served cold. And if you go to a restaurant and you're served something that is cold...
And it should be hot. You have every right to send it back. Because I figure it's probably either the waiter was too busy or some of the chef didn't want it at that temperature. So, yeah, anyway. But the thing is, it's called a pass in most restaurants when the food hits sort of the organization before it goes right out to the dining room.
So much shit can go wrong by that time. Yeah, yeah. Of course, let me ask you this because you brought this up. I've always wanted to know and this feel like, is this a myth? You know, we've all done it before. Somebody's like rude to the waiter or whatever and they go like, oh, you're guaranteed. Or they send something back. Yeah, you're guaranteed for the whole kitchen's going to spit in your soup now or whatever. Right. Without divulging any names. Have you ever seen that happen? No, no, no, no. I mean, listen, it's hilarious stuff.
You know, I watched that movie Waiting, and I think a lot of people that are cooks watch that movie because it's like something we wish we could do, but that's never anything anyone's ever seen. Great. So we can lay that to rest now. I mean, do people shit talk customers behind their back all the time? Yeah. Wait, what?
Yeah. I mean, no, but I mean, if somebody sends, Jason Bateman is out there. If somebody sends a plate back to be reheated, is that a common thing or should I be as mortified as I feel when I do do it? Which is not often. The only time it's a problem is when the customer's wrong. Right. Right. Right.
Like, it happens all the time. Like, for example, oh, I think this bottle of wine is corked and it's not corked, right? Or this steak should be rare and it's not. The customer's actually wrong, right? And I think for years, even if the customer is wrong, the restaurant just sort of had to eat shit. And I sort of...
decided I was no longer going to do that. I would tell the customer, no, you're wrong. Nice. Nice. I feel like I took us off on a tangent here in making David defend the restaurant industry and the people who are screaming like, fucking Jason Bateman's kale apparently isn't hot enough. You took David and me down in your line of questioning.
But I do want to get back to something you said. Oh, good. There's more from Will. No, I just wanted to say, well, he's my guest, and I want to hug this time with David. I'm so excited. You've only got three questions. Don't wear them all out. Let me say this. You talked about being competitive, and when you started the restaurant, you were—not a lot of people know this. I don't think that you were a golf prodigy as a kid. Yeah, it's weird to think about it that way. I mean, because obviously I never panned out as a golfer, but—
My dad was way ahead of his time. Now, if you go to the golf course or golf tournaments, you're going to see tons of Asian kids with their parents yelling at them. My dad was the OG Asian dad yelling at his son to be better at golf. Wow. No way. You know, Will just got me re-addicted to golf, and I played every day for the last month. He really did. This whole interview is now going to go to golf, listen. Yeah.
It was so uncool to play golf back then, mind you. Like, no one. It's not that cool now either. It's not that cool now. No. But I burned out. I burned out really young. I mean, I won a bunch of tournaments, and there was this kid named Tiger Woods and Phil Nicholson. They were a little bit better than everybody else, too. No way. Really? So you were here in Los Angeles? No, I grew up in Northern Virginia, but I remember trying to qualify for this tournament called the Big I in Houston. Yeah.
And I never qualified. But for three years, there was this kid that was a year or two older than me that was on the cover of the pamphlet. And I was like, how the fuck am I ever going to beat this guy? He's so much better than everybody back then. That was Tiger? Yeah. Wow. And so were you a plus or were you a scratch? I was, depending on the golf course,
my home golf club, I was a scratch. Good God. And what about now? If I took you out right now? No, no, no. The last time I played, so the last time I played a round of golf seriously was 2003 and I threw my golf clubs into the ocean at Old Head in Ireland. Oh,
And the 18th hole is this majestic thing overlooking the ocean. And like, I literally was thinking to myself, maybe I could practice and try for the tour or something like that. How old were you? I don't know. I was probably like 25, 26. Because my dad has always said, oh, you have all these natural gifts. But I never had the head game because I just was a basket case.
And, you know, the thing about Ireland is they don't have a lot of practice ranges. So you just like go there cold. Takes you four holes to figure out your swing. And I literally had like a quadruple bogey birdie. And it was the most schizophrenic round I've ever played. That sounds like my game, right, Jason? Except for the birdies. So I said, fuck this. I'm never going to play this ever again. I chucked my clubs in the ocean. My dad yelled at me. And I was like, Dad, I played for those golf clubs. I can do whatever I want. So you have not played since? I played once last summer.
And that was, I probably won't play again. What'd you shoot? Something in the 90s? I shot like, I think like an 88. Well, David, that's totally fine for a guy who's actually got a job. And who never plays? I'm just, golf does not bring me any joy whatsoever. I just, I have to. Wow. I mean, I'm that kind of personality, addictive personality where if I had the chance,
the chance even though I don't like playing the game I would play and practice all day to be that asshole that wins the club championship every year yeah nobody likes that guy right no I dangerously close to to get why did you stick with it for so long just because you had a gift for it no I was scared of my dad father right scared of my dad yeah okay okay but
But a good motivator. He put in some good work habits with you, right? And some thirst for excellence and winning and all that stuff. And you pointed it towards restaurants. Well, I mean, it sort of became pathological, right? Of like the need to work harder, be better, practice more. Yeah. But that's why I brought it up. You can see it in your work and your drive. Like you have...
You're very focused, even though you do a lot of your focus requires you to look in a lot of directions.
you still harness a lot of stuff at the same time, which is not easy to do. You know, it's a lot of restaurants, a lot of businesses. It takes a lot of determination and a lot of, you know, discipline, frankly. I've been lucky and I've been surrounded by, and this is not me being modest, I just have really great people. I got way too much credit for all the things that happen. And I don't even cook in the restaurants really anymore. So, you know, I just...
I don't know. And when I look back at everything that's happened, it's hard for me to believe that we did all that, you know? Yeah. Hey, so on cooking on, you know, what does it take to be the best chef or one of the best? Obviously you need to have great taste. No pun intended. Have you noticed that you are a better chef in one country versus another country based on
how you like to cook. Yeah. Does that make sense? No, it does make sense. And it's exactly that. Every country, and I wouldn't even say every country around the world, even places in America are very different. Yeah. Right? Like, just for salt, for example, in Toronto, I feel that people want less salt in their food. New York always wants more salt in their food.
And in Japan, you'd think with all the soy sauce, it'd be very salty. No, they want it sort of at bare minimum salt in a lot of the food that's not, say, ramen or something like that. But in terms of the cuisine and the technique, it's certainly beneficial, I think, to be in America where it is sort of this amalgamation of different immigrants and different techniques, right?
So if you say, you know, we're chef in, you know, Milan or Florence, Italy, it's hard to know the world because you're only cooking Italian food. Right. Right. And that is a benefit and sort of a negative simultaneously. Have you noticed what city or what area, what region is more demands and more sort of –
healthier ingredients like can you actually determine that is there a clientele that seems like it wants something more stripped down than than other places for sure i think it depends on the customer like the people that go to soul cycle you know that they're gonna i mean you can almost like make a menu exactly for them right the typecasting of the kinds of food that people are gonna like
for sure. The funny thing with LA, you think people eat healthier. They do. They eat healthy lunches. I find that a lot of people skip breakfast and they eat like total shit for dinner. And with ride sharing, people get fucking shit-faced now.
where they didn't used to. You're right. No. It's been great for restaurants. You know, when you see, like, I had this doctor once when I saw him at this bar and he was smoking and I thought, that was the craziest thing I'd ever seen, a doctor smoking. And when I've seen you or chefs on certain shows just eating literally anything they want, I was like,
Yeah, because what I love about food is everyone has a different relationship to it, right? Everyone is constantly thinking about it. And like, should I eat more of this, less of this? And the guilt associated with eating something you know is horrible for you but tastes great. Like how much or how little should we listen to that guilt? Or how much or how little do you listen to that guilt? Because part of it feels like I want what I want because it pleases me. However, I know that what pleases me isn't good.
for my body, therefore I eat it, but I'm miserable. You know what I mean? Right. You know, I think like most things when you're younger, you can sort of eat anything. And I remember first tasting like foie gras or something like that, which is just fat. Yeah. But it's so good. But at some point, it all catches up with you. Yeah.
I find that the older chefs get, the less they want to eat the stuff that they actually make. Oh, really? Yeah. Getting back to the ride-sharing thing, have you noticed that in Los Angeles since Uber and Lyft and all that stuff came into play that the restaurant business increased because if for no other reason, just the alcohol consumption could happen? Like in New York, I'd imagine people have been making money on alcohol for years because you're jumping in a cab. But in LA, you always have to factor in that long drive home. Now, no longer. Has the money gone up?
I mean, yes, before COVID, 100%. And that was a real boon for the industry because that's how you make money, really, in any kind of restaurant business is beverages. And, you know, a bottle of wine or several cocktails adds up.
And again, if you are eating in LA more often than not before ride sharing, most people wouldn't indulge with that second, third or fourth drink. They'd have maybe one and that would be it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You brought up COVID. Um,
What is it? Yeah, I guess what is it is the, sorry, let me just, is that a notes? No, like a noodles place. Just the, obviously COVID has, you know, completely changed not just restaurants, but the economy and how we do everything. What do you think the future of restaurants is going to be post COVID? What do you have a prediction? Yeah, I do. And it has not, it's not a good one. I just spoke with Senator Gillibrand to a bunch of,
I don't even know who the hell was on the Zoom call, but I've been saying this since March and it has not been a popular take. And I wish I wasn't right. But I said, I think that 90% of all independent restaurants will close without intervention from the government. And I think I'm right. I think maybe it's 85%, 90%. Is that because of the occupancy limitations? Yeah. I mean, it's 25% depending on like New York is 25% indoors. Las Vegas is say 50%. I think California is 25% still.
Everything's the same. The economics are still the same. The fixed costs haven't changed. And I'll tell you, if you're not 100% occupancy for a restaurant, you're losing money. Right. Wow. Yeah. I heard Tom Colicchio say this, kind of pitch this thing on the Bill Maher show. Tom had suggested, like, he had this whole idea of why when this happened, when this pandemic happened, didn't the government utilize all the restaurant businesses to feed people to then keep the restaurant businesses...
the economy going that way when there was all of these shortages at farms and with milk and produce and meats.
I thought it was a great idea. No, it's an idea that was certainly floated and the government, not a surprise, they decided not to do it because... Sean, don't get pissed off. Don't get pissed off. I thought this was a real opportunity. I thought you could have had Suzy the saucier in 2020 and getting subsidized by the government to do something that communities needed and it just hasn't happened. I always wanted to ask somebody like you, an incredibly accomplished chef, like...
We always want to know what you eat and what you like because these guys know that I'd literally do anything anybody wanted for a free milkshake. Or a cookie. And if you had to eat the same thing... Or a cookie. Or a cookie. Cake. If you had to eat the same thing for a week, what would it be? What is your... If you had to pick... How about a donut, Sean?
Same thing for one week? Yeah. I don't know, man. Okay, then forget that. I'd probably choose like fried chicken, I guess. Okay. Sorry, David, you should know. The reason he's asking is because he quite literally eats a tuna sandwich with plain chips every day for lunch. Is that real? On a paper plate. Go ahead. Yeah, almost every day. Or a peanut butter sandwich.
Wait, tell me about this tuna sandwich. Yeah. Are you making this tuna sandwich yourself or are you buying it from like a deli? Great question. Both, but I make it most of the time. I just put the tuna, the canned tuna. What kind of tuna? What kind of tuna? Are you using spring water or olive oil? Water. No oil. No oil. That's not a good thing. Number one. Why? You lose there. That's gross.
What do you mean? No, because I put mayonnaise in it and celery, and that's it. Yeah, but even still, spring water tuna, that's... Come on, you gotta change it up. Let me ask you this. Is there too much mercury in tuna? I don't know that answer. Well, then we gotta go.
Wait, wait, wait. Walk us through it, Sean. This is a great line because David wants to know because David, this is his area of... So you're like, Scotty, I'm going to make some lunch and so you slip, slip, slip into the kitchen with some of your slippers. Right? Sorry. Sorry.
And you're like, quee. And you're like, somebody get some fucking WD-40 in here. The fucking closet is still creaking. So then you take out a can of tuna. What do you got? You got the. I usually do two StarKist, yeah. Two cans. Yeah, two cans. Well, because you're exercising a lot probably. Two cans, yeah. So you've got the two cans. You got the two cans of StarKist tuna. Yeah, and water. And then you do the thing and you just by hand. Yeah, you put it in a thing. You don't have one of those automatic. Yeah.
No, it's a hand thing. Okay, so a hand thing. And it's Miracle Whip? It's bring out the best foods and bring out the best. Best foods. We don't need the jingle. Just the brand. Best foods mayonnaise. Okay. And then you chuck. How much mayonnaise? How much mayonnaise? A lot. All you can handle. A ton. A lot? Okay. That's the only good thing I've heard so far.
Okay, and so... And the celery, and I have to eat it with celery. Texture. Now, see, but now a great chef will think about what the size of those celery cuts are going to be. Correct, David? Correct, Jason. You are very accurate. So now we know this. David, what would you do if it occurred to you that you wanted to make a tuna salad sandwich? How would you go about it?
For real. How would you make it different? Well, I wouldn't use tuna in spring water because I think it's just too bland. You might as well drink a Soylent shake at that point. I'm open to it. I agree.
I mean, I just think the olive oil is better and better tasting, and there's better brands, not to be a total fucking snob. There's better brands of canned tuna as well. Be a snob. Be a snob. So I would probably do that, although downstairs I probably have some Sunkist as well and then Sarkist. You got a two-story house there? Yeah.
Or is it a basement? Is it a basement? I brunoise some onions. Like, I finally dice some onions and some celery. And then I probably add a little bit more lemon juice. And then I do mayonnaise. I don't use best foods. I'd use a mayonnaise called QP, which is from Japan. Oh, okay.
And I do some salt and pepper and maybe a little bit of agave for sweetness to bring it out. Wow. That's a whole new level of some sweetness. What kind of bread would you put it on, David? Sorry, just to... We're going to flash toast the bread? Yeah, I would toast the bread a little bit. Maybe a multigrain type of thing. Sure. Yeah. Would you put butter on that toast? Shut the hell up. Unnecessary. So, wait, David. No, Sean. No. David. David.
David, this is my problem with cooking. You've just described a 45-minute process for a five-minute sandwich. And that's why I don't cook. Well, no. That's why? That's, well... That's not why. Main reason. And then 20 minutes to clean. Everything I just said, I can make in under five minutes. Wow. See? So...
David, I want to swing back. I'm not a swinger. Swing back to what, golf? I wanted to swing back. No, I want to swing back to something you were talking about, playing golf with your dad. And your dad actually, did your dad partner with you in your first restaurant? He did. Is that true? Yeah, there was a lot of family drama going on, and I obviously had a contentious relationship with my dad. Here we go. Let's tuck into this. Yeah, I want to know that. Grab it. You have any alcohol there, David? Just start sipping.
We're going to get you crying in about 20 minutes. He just, he never said like, I love you or anything. Very stern Asian father.
And there was a lot of shit going on personally and in my family. Is your dad still with us? No, he's not. He passed away recently. Sorry about that. I'm sorry. It's all good. And I remember being like, a lot of my friends were going to graduate school. And I was like, fuck it. I saw how much money I might need to start this restaurant. I was like, it's cheaper than graduate school. And then I also remember being, well, if I'm 26 years old and I have to declare bankruptcy, then that's not so bad. Mm-hmm.
But you didn't lead with that with your conversation with your dad. I think I did. I said, listen, I'm doing this with or without you, and I'm going to raise the money. I said, you know, and I think he offered, and he got three of his friends, and they pitched in a loan that I paid back in two years, $125,000. And I'm very fortunate, very fortunate, obviously. But I even got to the point of thinking about doing crazier things, like actually –
applying to school, using the graduate like money loan, and then bankrolling the school that way. I was going to do something crazy. That was a lot of pressure then too. Not only did you know that your dad specifically had his eye on you for excellence and you wanted to make him proud, but now you're asking for his seed money as well. Good for you. That must have felt great to pay him back and for him to have seen the incredible success you've had before he passed. Did he ever give it up to you about the success?
You know how he did it? He told me a few years back, stop working so hard. Oh, I see. Did he really? Yeah. That's cool. Wow. That was his way. Do you have kids now? I do. I have a 19-month-old. And so wasn't the blessing in disguise to have kids?
A father like that, so you can just shower your kid with tons and tons of love? Yeah, it's been amazing. I'm definitely the father that I'm not. What if you were like, no, I'm exactly the same way, and I don't want to ever see my kid? You get into that, into fatherhood before, you know, in Ugly Delicious. I think it's season two in the first episode. When you find out, it reveals that you and your wife are expecting a baby boy. Yeah.
And you really... One of the great things about that show was it wasn't just about food. It was about how food kind of connects us and what food, the role it's played in your life and how it's connected you to your family and was connecting you to your new family. And...
I was really, really moved by that episode. The way you talk to your mom and your sister and your mother-in-law and your wife, and then you kind of go investigate other people and you talk to other restaurateurs about their relationship. I forget that restaurant in Oregon. Your friend has that cool restaurant. Yeah, Peter's restaurant. What's it called? Hanok. Hanok. Yeah, and he lives there. He lives on one side of the restaurant, and it's kind of like there's just like a wall separating the kitchen and his kitchen and everything.
I just love the way that you, there are, because I feel the same way that there is no division. We can't put our lives into these different boxes. It's all one big soup, you know? Nice. And these lives that we live, thank you, or stew. Mm-hmm. Soup better? Soup better? No, no, go with stew. Go with stew. I'm not married to soup, but I could go either way. Broth, broth, broth. Broth is good, yeah, because broth, which brings me to... Yeah, it's cleaner. That's in your show, too, about how broth is like such a huge... But...
I just love the way that you broke that down, that like it's all connected in the way that we live our lives and that we can't compartmentalize and that it's all just like this big. And I was really impressed with your connection to family and how important it was to you. And I wonder now, you know, now meeting you because you were so nervous about becoming a dad and you were so honest about it.
And I remember your mom saying that you were going to be great parents. She said your wife was going to be even better. Well, yeah, that's what she said. The only reason I'd be a good parent was because of my wife. Yeah, I know. I'm glad to see you're still mad about that. But did all your dreams come true? Did it happen the way you thought it would? Being a dad has been amazing. And I think it's been the only highlight of quarantine because my son's not old enough to go to school and drive me crazy. But yeah.
being a dad's been amazing because all I did was work or go out and have just do whatever I wanted to do. And I never intended to think that I would ever have a family or I thought I'd just be a bachelor my entire life. Still thinking about it or? Yeah.
Options always there. But like being a dad has caused me to, being a husband has, I think, caused me and forced me, not forced, I think I've willingly tried to be better and to grow up. I think it's taken me a long time to decide to grow up instead of being a fucking jerk. Yeah. Is that what made you nervous about the prospect of being a parent? About the sort of responsibility that would immediately come? Or was it more tied into sort of like your experience as a child?
There was that, you know, I definitely didn't want to raise my future child the way I was raised, but I wanted to be present. I wanted to
I didn't know how it would affect how I worked, right? Yeah. And that was my big concern is how do I find a division between work and life? And, you know, it's something I'm still trying to figure out. Yeah. You know, even when my son was born in pre-COVID, right, I travel a lot, right? Whether it's filming TV or the restaurants or whatever shit I got to do. I mean, I think it's like probably five, almost a little over five months a year I'm on the road. And even when I am...
at home working, you know, it's, I see you in the morning and I'll see you the next morning. Right. You know? Right. And I think that's how a lot of my friends that were now in LA and most of my friends in New York saw their kids. You know, they're with their nannies or somebody that's looking after the kids but their parents are working. And...
You know, I just was like, man, I want to be a dad. That's literally my number one job I want to be good at is be a dad. Like that, if you ask me what you care about the most, obviously I want to make sure that I can financially take care of my family and the people that work for me and the company. But I think overall my priority when I found out my wife was pregnant was,
I want to be something that I think I'm going to be terrible at, which is being a dad. Hmm. Uh, are you still enjoying the entrepreneurship of opening multiple restaurants? Like, is it still excite you invigorate you get you out of bed in the morning? I mean, yeah, it changes. Uh, it changes. It's,
This post-COVID world, we'll see what happens, right? But two years ago, I stepped down as CEO, and we have other people in place for the culinary decisions. If anything, I feel like I'm just like a guidance counselor. So I've been focusing a lot more on media, so I can be a little bit. It does sound lucrative, though. This is why we have the two-story house, guys. Sorry, keep going, David.
He didn't say two. It could be three. He might have made multiple stories. Good point. So, you know, that's where I'm at is I don't know. You know, we're facing some challenging times. And I always say, again, I'm never going to do another restaurant. And yet I always do another goddamn restaurant. What would be the natural progression for somebody like yourself? And to piggyback on that, is there something else you dreamed of doing ever?
you know, I'm, I'm, these are really hard pressing questions for me right now. Well, this is a tough, listen, we asked the hardest questions. No one told me you guys would be fucking this hard. Smart listers. We need an answer. Well, we make Leslie Stahl look easy, okay? I'm out of here. I, uh, I think for me, career wise, just like what I want to cook is very different. Um,
and I'm trying to find some metaphor analogy, but I just, while I always care about eating in a fancy restaurant and all these things, like now I just want to cook or make things that are just wholesome and pure, like a sandwich or a piece of pizza. I don't want the artistry. Like a tuna sandwich. Even a tuna sandwich, right? I care more about
not about winning awards or I just want to do something that is good. Simple as that. And I don't care about winning awards either. That's why I never win them because I'm like, you know what? I don't want them. Yeah. Currently the, um, the, the big awards go to those places that design a plate that's,
almost doesn't even look like food, right? The artistry of it, the way that it's, it's like an Oscar film, you know, like best picture. There's a certain film, you know, that's not necessarily populist, but it's, it's complicated. I get it. I think I've always wanted to be something that's populous, but even still now, I just would rather serve a bowl of chili. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that to me is more appealing, both in taste and how someone might consume it. You know, do you have a restaurant that's kind of lo-fi like that? Uh,
Um, yeah, but it's still not exactly where it could go. And I don't even think it could be a restaurant, right? The kind of food that I personally, and the thing is I'm making more food now at home than ever before. What about like a diner? What do you do with your leftovers? And just give me your address real quick. Give it outside. I'd be good for leftovers, David. But my restaurants are hard, man. They're so goddamn hard.
Where do you stand on design or do you just punt that to a partner? I mean, originally, I didn't care about design or service. It's true. Like, if you talk to anybody about the restaurants, our restaurants were like jail cells. Very minimal, no comforts, very loud music and very much in your face, young and obnoxious. And it was very punk rock in some ways without being punk, right? And I liked the hard challenge and I wanted to win someone over with nothing but the functionality
The food. Yeah. Going back to what I was at, like, is there something completely outside of the culinary world that you always dreamed of doing or you would want to kind of dabble in? Sean has, he has to ask that question. I want to pitch you some ideas, yeah. He can't not ask that question. Because I'm always interested in what other people are interested in other than the thing they're known for. Well, I'm sort of doing that.
You know, I'm like sort of trying to figure out what that is. I'm still, we'll always be related with food. I think we're making a bunch of
consumer product goods like sauces and salts and stuff we're going to get into the hard goods business and part of this is how should i phrase this i like to do things that people think are stupid right or like it's not cool go on and if you ask a lot of chefs or even like a younger version of me would you sell uh pots and pans or fucking a line of sauces i'd be like what a fucking sellout in some ways it's like how do you turn that
Yes, it may be selling out, but how do you make it awesome simultaneously? Well, you could put in the component of like Paul Newman where he sort of became somewhat philanthropic by selling salad dressing. That's not cool. He gave all his money away. Listen, let me just tell you this. David, there's no such thing as selling out. There's only buying in. Okay? Full stop. You talk about all these places to go. Where do you like to go? I mean, all things being equal and without COVID, et cetera. When you're sitting at home and it's like,
You know, you look at your watch and you look at your wife and you're like, let's go. I really want to have something that's satisfying and going to make me feel good. Where do you, what's the first place you think of? In New York, it's a sushi restaurant called Shuko in downtown, in like sort of the West Village. It's so good. Okay. You know, it's different. What street's it on? I think it's like 12th Street between 5th and 6th or Greenwich and Broadway. What about Los Angeles? Where in Los Angeles? Man, that's the thing. That's the thing.
L.A., there's so many places. But really, that arts district is sort of where the newer spots are, which is amazing to me. Yeah, the Bestia guys, Bobble. Hey, Jason, try to sound older, by the way. Yeah, what? Is it not? You hear that? Arts district is where all the new kids. Yeah, me and the ladies. Jesus fucking, you know what? Just take yourself out to the shed and kill yourself. For Christ's sake.
I do not get out, David. What about this spa go I've been hearing about? There's so many good spots. I went to one time Matsuhisa. We went and it's not cheap. And it was us and it was Thoreau and Rashida Jones. And we decided to play the credit card roulette. And whoever lost had to pay for the meal. And Thoreau lost. And he was so mad for real. And I'll say this. He's so cheap.
It's just us talking. It's just us talking, right? He won't be here. He doesn't fucking listen to our show. He cries when he orgasms, too, apparently. Every time. And I'm always there to wipe the tears. It's weird. Remember when we could go out and eat? Jesus fuck, Sean. I'm still recording. Can you just up the energy a little bit? What about the tower bar? What about the tower bar?
Hey, Sean, can you pull the pamphlet into the frames just so we can see the... Scotty, bring another pill in for you. It's almost night-night time. It's...
It's five fingers of Chardonnay, the pill, and then he's out. And a cup of tuna. I can't wait. I get excited around this time of day. Wait a second. Wait a second. Before we lose our shit, the last thing, David, I want to ask you about your book. Can you talk a little bit about your new book? Yeah. Eat a Peach. Great song.
yeah fuck man it's out it's a memoir you can read about my crazy life i i don't even understand why it's out there i i've been pretending that it didn't happen that's the easiest way for me to get through life because it's so it's so revelatory you're so open and honest in it so it's kind of like you have to pretend right that everybody's not reading about your yeah what you're thinking about did you read it did you read it for an audiobook
I did. I don't know. That's why I was like, your guys are so good at doing this shit. I don't know how. Of course I read all the criticism and...
And first thing, yeah, he shouldn't have, he shouldn't have read his own book. Never, never read, never read any criticism or reviews. Cause if you believe the good ones, you got to believe the bad ones too. So are you like avoiding phone calls? No, no. I mean, it's, it's been, I think incredibly well received. We were supposed to do, it was supposed to come out in may and we had like a 21 city book door. So yeah,
uh, that's not happening, but, um, you know, I, it's just weird because I don't know. It's not only weird that the book is there. It's weird that I'm such a competitive person and I'm like, fuck, you know, I got to beat all these goddamn Trump books. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Call order right now. David, listen, we've taken up too much of your time already. I can't thank you enough, man. Uh, I think you're such a cool dude and, and you've done so many amazing things in, uh,
You know, I just wish you nothing but success, and thanks for coming here and giving us your time. I'm so glad I met you, David. I'm going to make you a tuna fish sandwich now. That's what I got to do, Sean. I would love to see your version of that. By the way, yes, I would kill to taste that. No, I'm serious. I'm going to. I'm going to get you your info, and I'm going to make you something that hopefully you will enjoy. I would kill for that. That's so cool. Thank you, David. Yeah, leave it outside in the sun for a few hours.
And I'll pick it up. Thank you for being with us, pal. Thank you, David. Thank you, David. See you later, man. Thanks, guys.
I feel like we have a good shot at getting a table inside of a week. Yeah. Inside of a week, the three of us could call and say, like, Sean and Jason and Will want to come in for dinner, and they want it to be gratis. He literally just texted me. Right? Like, we should have, because we're friends. They'll probably throw in the desserts maybe, right? You think? Maybe. You know me. I don't like dessert. Uh-huh.
You know how much I love dessert, right? I know, Angel. I love it so much. Yeah, I loved him, though. He was great. He's super normal. Yeah. Super normal and such a huge family guy. And really, I implore our listener to watch second season of Ugly Delicious, episode one, and what he's really struggling with when he finds out that he's going to have a kid. It's such a beautiful kind of exploration of himself. He's really honest about himself. He's like, I don't know if I'll be any good.
I think I'm going to be a terrible dad. He's really worried. Will you stop rolling up your sleeves? Yeah, it's so gross. Will is just like pulling. He's wearing a short sleeve shirt. He's just pulling up the sleeves and making it a tank top. I don't want to look at your dumb guns. How are they?
They're dumb. Are they not great? No, I guess they're good. All right, they're fine. Well, we should probably go. Look at my noodles. My forearms are bigger than my biceps. What's wrong with me? Yeah, it's like a ramen noodle. Just like a really... Take a photo of it, Insta. No, he doesn't Insta. You don't have an Instagram yet, do you? He does. Is he talking about take an instant picture? Instagram. Like a Polaroid? Well, post. Take a picture of it and post it. Take it to the post office. Oh, God.
Jesus. So long it's been. Well, let me just see how many stamps I've got left because I did a lot of mailing already today. I just, I mailed my wife a letter. She's right next to me. But the journey was incredible. I mail her a letter every day to let her know I love her. All right, we should probably kick it. I guess, yeah, we should wrap it up. Love, David. Love, David. Yeah. The other thing is, bye. Bye. Bye.
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