"Darius Rucker"
42:57 Share

Hello, listener. Welcome to SmartList. This is a podcast that is basically a little chat show. And there's three dumb dudes asking dumb questions to a slightly smarter guest. And this guest is a mystery to two of the question askers.

I've never brought this up before, but your tone sounds like an information video, like at a funeral home. Yeah. Well, I'm just trying to get on with it, you know? Like, this is what you can expect in the funeral process. But I don't even know why we're still doing explanations of what the podcast is. People know what they're tuning into. Just ask them to listen. Like a credit sequence of a show. Like, they get it. They know where they're at. Get on with the story. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Let's just start the episode. All right. It's all new SmartList. Welcome, listener, to SmartList. Yeah.

Jason, are you sleepy today? Yeah. No, I'm just... What happened, Angel? You know what I've realized? I'm 51 years old. I think I'm moody.

I think I've realized it's taken, I mean, you guys have known me for a while. Am I a little late to this realization? It must have gone to your junk box because you're the last to get the memo.

Yeah, I'm a real squeaky wheel for no reason. We know. There's absolutely no reason for me to be in a bad mood today. Sometimes he's a real grumper. What is, and I say this with all respect to those who seriously suffer from it, but what is the definition of bipolar? I just want to know if I can self-diagnose. I think it's your highs are real high and your lows are real low. And you become manic.

Right. Can you self-diagnose or do you have to ask friends that you're close to? You just asked me. Yeah. So what's your opinion? Do I qualify for that? Let's say, why don't you take a sip of that? Okay. So that's just plain water, right? Or is that...

You have it. You have it. You have it. You have it. By the way, I think everybody's been feeling level. And again, not to diminish, people have this clinically. But depression, I think that there have been levels. I think that there are levels of it and people have been experiencing it. I certainly... I started going on Prozac right before this podcast. The pandemic. Yeah.

Oh. Right before lunch. Right before lunch today. Wait, before the pandemic, did you sense there was a disturbance in the force? No, I did not. I had disturbances.

And you were like, I better pill up because something wicked this way comes. No, no. We'll talk about that later. But yeah, no, I should have been taking it 20 years ago. I started my happy pill 20 years ago. I'm a big, big advocate. Yeah. But it's beneficial that I'm taking it now that we're in this. I'm surprised that it took you this long because I find your life depressing. So...

You know what I mean? Is he talking to me or is he talking to you, Sean? I'm talking to both of you. Oh, got it. Okay, okay. So, guys, as I introduce this guy, you guys are going to know who he is right off the bat. So this fella, who I'm a huge fan of, he grew up in the South, Charleston, North Carolina, and is an unbelievably incredible singer-songwriter. He formed his now-famous band back in 86 and about a decade later won a couple of Grammys, sold over 25 million records.

The name of the band, this is how you're going to get it, is Hootie and the Blowfish. I got it. And the name of the superstar is Darius Rucker. What? Darius Rucker. I said it before you. Hello. No way. Hi, Darius. Hello. And he's holding a mic like a rock star should. Absolutely, I am. Absolutely. Perfect. Because I couldn't pack my mic stand in my bag, so I got to hold it.

Now, is that a, what do you call it, euphemism? No? No, it's not. It's not. Because I've heard Will say that before, and I didn't ever know what he was talking about. That was a euphemism. Oh. Wow. You know, Darius, your name actually sounds Southern. It sounds like Matthew McConaughey would have a blast saying,

with your name. Oh, yeah. I like when he says, hey, Darius. I like when he says that. He's so relaxed all the time. He is so relaxed. When I was younger, you know...

which was not recent. Sean's having a tough time remembering because it was so long ago. That's why it's taking so long. Check your notes. No, but I'm dead serious. I would be in my car listening to your songs. I bought all your CDs, and I would try so hard to sound like you when I sang because your voice is one of the best, coolest things

I've ever heard. I agree. And it's so, like, so identifiable. And did you always sing like that? Like, when did you open your mouth and realize, hey, I think I have a pretty cool voice? Oh, thank you for saying that. Everybody does the, I want to be with you. Everybody does that. I think they sound just like me. I want to be with you. Exactly. Exactly. I like to think, Darius, that your singing career began just one day you were driving, and out of the blue you went...

I got to start a band. I got to start a band. Actually, it's all I wanted to do since I was four. When I was a four-year-old, I discovered Al Green, and he was big for me. I thought he was a genius. Yeah. So did you sign him right there? Yeah, I would have. You just listened to him. You listened to him. I got it. You didn't discover him. And it was great for me. And ever since I was a kid, this is all I've ever wanted to do. I'm really surprised. I was talking to a friend last night about it, and it's just...

that I'm 54 years old and I'm still getting to do it at this level. It's pretty crazy. Yeah. Darius, so with the advantage of hindsight now and all the sort of accrued data over the last, I don't know, 20, 30 years, maybe it's been that long since iTunes sort of changed the music industry into what it is today as far as brick-and-mortar stores going away. What is the section of people in the industry that have benefited from that versus those that are at a disadvantage now? Or is it...

good for everyone across the industry now that they've had a chance to kind of find some equality with some of the parts of it? It's good for the consumer. It's great for the consumer because music is so easy to get now. I mean, when we were younger, we had to go stand in line at the record store on Tuesday to buy the new record. You know, now you just get it on your phone or get it wherever. That's been great. The people who started those businesses, it's been great. Yeah.

I mean, they're making... And even the record companies, you know, it's been great, but the laws haven't caught up for the artist yet. Like, you know, the CEO of Spotify walks away with billions of dollars and we're making .0001 cent every time they play my song. Right.

So tell me, do you feel like some of the magic has gone? Because there isn't that anticipation of waiting, like you were saying, waiting to... Oh, yeah. I remember the first record that I went and bought on my own. I was 11. It was 1981. And I took the subway downtown Toronto to buy... The Donna Summer album. The Donna Summer album. Donna Summer, MacArthur Park. No, no. To buy...

um to buy acdc dirty deeds done dirt cheap yeah that was the first record i bought i instantly regretted it but is some of the magic gone in that process oh yeah i think that feeling of waiting for that record and getting it and opening it up and reading the liner notes and you know looking at the pictures or whatever that's gone and and i think even for artists you're like there's artists now like i still make records like i still i still make

Albums that I want people to listen to back-to-forth the people are just out there making singles now They don't write doesn't matter that whole process doesn't matter Is it true that you have to kind of play this game of releasing the music knowing you're not going to get a kind of Monetary reward from it because the way to make a living now is just touring and touring only this is the perfect explanation of pre digital is uh when we were doing our thing

The only reason we went on tour, like the only reason we went out and paid shows was to make people buy our records. That's the only reason you went on tour. I mean, you were making money touring, but you're making so much money selling records. You're just out there trying to get people to go buy your records. And now today...

The only reason you make a record is so you can tour every year. Right. Isn't that amazing? I mean, it's the exact opposite. So basically 100% of the, well, 90% of the income from the band is ticket sales and concessions and souvenirs. T-shirts, yeah. Then has your percentage of the gate and the souvenirs and stuff like that, has that gone up or has it stayed the same?

You know, it's going up just because, you know, my standing in the music business is going up. But, you know, the basic things are still the same as they were. So that's a negotiation point as far as percentage of ticket sales and concessions and stuff like that. Absolutely. It wasn't something that was put on the table as...

as a negotiation point, as sort of a make good since record sales went away for artists. The venues and whatnot didn't say, okay, so now you can have some of the gate. It's just, it's always been the same. And the more juice you have in the industry, the bigger percentage you get. Exactly. Live Nation ain't looking to hook nobody up.

They're looking to make money. Right. They don't feel bad for you. Madison Square Garden is like, oh, Darius, you know what? You guys haven't sold that many records, so we're going to give you 80% of the gate. Pat you on the head. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But it must be, isn't that funny the way that that flipped? When was that moment? Do you remember like a year when the sales kind of went that way and became touring? When Apple Music came about. When iTunes started and people could get it on their phone. And you know, and at that point, and when, when you know, Napster started and they didn't try to buy it. They just bought it.

They tried to crush it. If the record labels had gotten together and bought it, they would own it. They would have owned the technology. And that was really where it all changed. I'm assuming that there is a union for these, for artists, that could have and perhaps now in hindsight should have said, hang on a second, Apple. You're not allowed to do that. We have an infrastructure and a way in which to monetize albums

album sales and whatnot, you can't come in and now turn it into an a la carte business and just relegate any income for bands to touring and merchandising and stuff like that. We say no as a union. We tried, but the, uh, it was such new technology and you know, it wasn't even, there weren't any laws. There was no laws governing what was happening. And was it somehow spun as well? Don't worry about it. It's going to be beneficial. There's still going to be tower records, but this is going to be on top of it. And

and we're going to figure it out exactly it's going to be more exposure exactly you know we'll figure out the money people are listening to your music it's good for you guys you know but it's a great thing i mean i'm at that point when i'm not mad at anybody or mad about it it is what it is and you got to do what you got to do with it i still to this day feel guilty when i'm like you know my daughter's in the car and i say you know uh what was it the other day we were talking about uh

And she's 13. She's discovering, like, Dad, have you ever heard this song by the Psychedelic Furs? Am I saying that word right? And I said, yeah. And she started, I said, have you ever heard English Beat? And like, so I start pulling up English, and I don't own the English Beat, an English Beat album, but I just could for free just hit the search bar and boom, up comes every song that they've ever recorded. And I'm just playing it in my car for no money at all, except for this fee that I pay each month.

you know, that is just on automatic. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, uh, it doesn't seem, it doesn't seem fair. Yeah. To, to you guys. I mean, I get what you're saying. And, and cause it doesn't seem fair to us to either, you know, when we see it, but it's just the way we can, there's nothing we can do about it. You know, let, we had a, we passed, they passed the law last year that, that helped a little, but it just, it was, it still wasn't,

It's just the way it is, and some things will never change. Which reminds me, I've just bought Bruce Wernsby's record this morning, and I paid for the whole thing.

I'd love it if you just lifted up a keyboard just right now. If he had done that, I would have been in heaven. So, Darius, I'm going to switch gears for a second here because I'm so glad you're on. What's that? Put in the clutch. So, everybody hang on tight. You know, I'm so glad you're here today because being black in America right now is rightfully so like a global conversation that everybody's having. And I'm anxious to get your take on this.

A question I'm sure you're so tired of, which is what has it been like and what is it like now being black in the country music scene since you started? And did you experience any racism, inequality, anything like that back then versus now? And what has been your overall experience with that? Yeah, overall, it's been great. When I first started 14 years ago, we did a radio tour where I went to 110 radio stations.

And it was shocking to me because I had a few guys, and I will say right now, these guys are some of my biggest supporters right now. But I had guys sit me down and tell me that I love the song. I think it's country. I'm going to try to play it, but I don't think it's going to work because I don't think my audience will ever accept a black country singer. Wow. Just like that. Oh, yeah. Straight up. They won't accept it, and they don't even...

They're just listening to it on the radio. Yeah. And they won't accept the notion of it. Yeah, and that's what he said, you know, and few guys said that. And, you know, and when it went number one, you know, they all called me and said we were wrong. Right. You know, but that was the mentality of the business at the time.

that it just there wasn't room for a black singer in country music everybody wants to be the second person to say yes exactly exactly and then you know but once it hit and you know now we got kane brown and jimmy allen and mickey guyton and all these these kids out here having hits in country music that are black and you know i look at it it's just changing and i i not somebody asked me early on if i thought i'd change country music when i started having hits and i just said i just hope

Some kid who had a CD that would actually get listened to instead of getting thrown in the trash because he had a black face on it, you know. And it's great to see people having big hits. That's wild. Yeah, it was crazy. This is a super cool fact that I learned when I was reading about you. Well, we'll see. We'll see.

When Darius Rucker first went solo with your first single in 2008, it made it to the top 20 on the Billboard charts, making you the first African-American singer to reach the top of the country charts in like 20 years. Yeah, 25 years. Yeah, it was Charlie Pryde.

I didn't even think about that going into it. And when it hit the top 25, somebody came and said that to me. I had named three or four, like Trini Triggs and these other guys that were black country singers in the 80s and 90s that I thought might have had a hit, or Cowboy Troy today. And it was crazy to me that 25 years between me and Charlie Pryde having hits...

on country radio. Did you see yourself as a sort of a trailblazer? Was that ever a notion that you had or no? You just wanted to make music and that was, and when people told you though, you were like, oh, you were shocked. When I started with Hootie, it wasn't, I wanted to play rock and roll because I wanted to play rock and roll with those guys. You know, and then when I wanted to sing country, I was going to make my record in my basement studio with my buddies, you know, drinking beer and make a country record and I managed by Doc McGee.

at the time and doc doesn't didn't see things that way and got me a record deal but you made the transition from rock and roll to country yeah that desire to play cut was that always in you like as you were um you guys were the biggest band in the world but where you're like i'm really not doing what i totally want to do because you were at the top top yeah i used to ask the guys to play country music like our last couple records i was like let's just go to nashville and make country record and they'd be like man we're a rock band and so they wouldn't do it i

I listened to country music growing up. And in 1989, a guy named Radney Foster came out with a record called Del Rio, Texas, 1959. And it changed my life. I heard that record and thought, someday I want to sound just like that guy. I got to make a country record. And I'd say it all the time and they would laugh at me. And finally, I got a chance to do it.

And the draw for country music for you, does it live mostly in the sound of it, in sort of the unique instrumentation of it, or is it in the sort of the lyrics, the stories that are talked about? What grabs you most? The most is the storytelling. I love how country tells the stories, but, you know, when you get to sing...

with a real good slide guitar playing with you, man, or a real good fiddle playing with you, man, I get chills thinking about it. Do you like sort of the hybrid sound of a band like Wilco, too? Oh, God, yeah. Yeah, I love them. You know, Wilco and the Silos back in the day, and, you know, Sunvolt. You know, Sunvolt was huge for me. That first record, wow. I was talking about Sunvolt and about Uncle Tupelo with both those bands. Uncle Tupelo, absolutely. So good. Big for me. Big for me.

Do you ever venture off and like, what would be the most surprising thing you could tell me that you listened to that'd be like, what?

Barry Manilow. Yes. I listen to Barry Manilow. Not surprised. And he's not my guilty pleasure. He's awesome. He's awesome. He's awesome. All right. Who's your guilty pleasure then? I don't have one. I mean, I don't think that everybody I love, I love. Like, you know, Neil Diamond and Barry Manilow. And, you know, I threw on a Dean Martin record the other day. And, you know, Dean is just, I mean, I love that stuff. I love everything, man. I love everything.

How much are you missing touring right now? Do you miss being out there and playing for people? I'll bet you do. Yeah, you know, when you take a week off or two weeks off or three weeks off, you always had that show on the calendar where you knew you were playing. You always thought, we're going to play in Phoenix. I'm going to play whatever. And not knowing has shown me that I love to play music so much, and I miss it so much, man. I know.

Are you coming up with songs you probably never would have or melodies you probably never would have because you're sitting there just staring at the walls for weeks and weeks? Yeah, I've written some songs in this next record. I can't wait for people to hear this next record. I've written some crazy stuff. Do you remember the very first song you wrote?

And then sing some of it. Goodness, a buddy of mine and I, he had written most of it. And I think I wrote a few lines for it, but he wrote it. But I just remember the chorus was destiny, destiny. It's destiny. That was the whole chorus. Okay, good. No, it wasn't good. It was awful. It sticks with you, though. That's the important thing.

And I read that you used to like Kenny Rogers, right? Oh, love him. Love him. And I toured with Kenny Rogers. Did you? We have to fit this story into every podcast we do. Yeah, go ahead. I bet you there's a Christmas theme to it, I think. Sean, go ahead and tell it, you little elf.

I played an elf in the Kenny Rogers Christmas Tour in 1994. Yeah. That is awesome. What happened? Or 95 maybe. No, 1995. And we smoked pot every single show. And we played elves and we had to like set up the scenery for the Christmas section of the show. And how did you guys get around?

A bus? A what? On a tour bus. Come on. We just took a sled. But I remember being on the tour. Like, I never understood the concept of enjoying, like when people say enjoy being on the road. I didn't really enjoy sleeping on the bus with 15 other people

who were the best and the most awesome guys. But just like the bathrooms and the farting and the singing until three in the morning. And I was like, guys, I try to, we have a show tomorrow. Doesn't anybody, what's going on? The squeaky elf. Guys.

You know what I mean? Calling the cops on your own bandmates. I loved the people in it. I just didn't like the traveling part just because there's no home base. You know, there's, I just didn't enjoy that part. Was Kenny on a jet?

Or was he on the bus? Always the jet. Always on the jet. He was on the jet and you were on the bus. I was like, can't we just go with Kenny? No. Yeah, maybe if you'd roll the joint for him every once in a while, he would have given you a ride. But Kenny's like, no extra seats. That seat's for my bag. That seat's for my shoes. That seat's for my hair. That one's for my joint roller.

Great guy. Great, great guy. Kenny's a great guy. I'm a big fan. And in his Country Music Hall of Fame induction, they asked me to sing Lucille. And it was amazing. You know, standing right there in front of Kenny Rogers singing Lucille was unbelievable. Wow, that's so great. That's a great song. That was unbelievable.

So, Darius, walk me through. So, you guys start hooting the blowfish. What year was that that you guys formed? 86, we started. January 86. January 86. It was our first show, yep. In Charleston? No, in Columbia, South Carolina. At the University of South Carolina. Go Cocks. Go Cocks. I'll say. Sure. If I had a dollar. He'll say. Let that breathe. Let Sean keep laughing. And how. So...

So you're in Columbia, South Carolina at the University of South Carolina. You start Hooting the Blowfish with a couple of your buddies. Yeah. You guys were in college together, I'm guessing. Yep, college together. And what was the first gig? Our first gig was a chicken wing joint that was right across from our dorm. Come on. It was called Pappy's. Pappy was an old Marine. And if he caught you with a fake ID, he banged a big pot. Wow.

until everybody looked and he cut your ID up as you embarrassingly walked out. And that was his claim. And he had just a chicken wing joint, probably 50 people maybe. And Mark and I had been playing for a while, the guitar player, we were the Wolf Brothers. And then, uh, that night we became Hootie and the Blowfish. How did you change from Wolf Brothers to the Hootie and the Blowfish? What was, uh, something there in the chicken joint? No, uh, I used to give people nicknames all the time. And, uh,

I sang in a show choir in college, Carolina Live. And one guy had these really big eyes and he looked like, you know, so I started calling him Hootie, kind of looking at an owl. I called him Hootie and his best friend had these huge cheeks. Like he did the Dizzy Gillespie thing where, you know, he was a trumpet player too, so he pushed his cheeks out. So I started calling him the Blowfish and one day we were playing a show with Carolina Live and they walked into my room. I had the biggest room, so I was having a party. And they walked into the room and I was like,

I lied to myself and said, Hootie and the Blowfish, and said, man, that's a great name for a band. I lied straight out to myself and said that. And I came home and said, Mark, we're going to name the band Hootie and the Blowfish. And he said, whatever. And the really stupid thing, y'all,

I never thought people would call me Hootie. It never dawned on me that people would call me Hootie. How stupid am I? How stupid am I? I'm an idiot. So that's crazy. So you go, so you name this band the week before just on a whim based on two dudes and another thing that you're doing. You go to this wing joint and,

You play a show and you guys were like, hey, this is pretty good. You start playing more shows in Columbia. In Columbia, yep. And then... Playing in Columbia went pretty quick. We got a crowd there pretty quick after a few shows, people coming to see us. And then we started going to other towns and hooking up with other bands. You know, we played shows with Dave Matthews. We played frat houses with Dave Matthews. Wow. Yeah. I mean, it was, you know, we had our circuit. We did the circuit in the South and we went up to New York and played some clubs up there and stuff like that too. But...

Then all of a sudden, you know, after nine years of being the biggest band in the Southeast without a record deal, we got a record deal. I guess eight years. Wow. So that's, so that's 94, whatever, something like that. Early nineties. Yeah. Around 93, we got signed. And what happens after you get signed? We get signed and a guy at our label tells our label president that he puts a cracked review out that Atlantic will be laughed out of the record business because grunge was so big and it was a mistake to put it out. And we put it out.

And then the Southeast was doing fine. Our single was doing good. We were selling in the Southeast, but you know, you can't, that doesn't translate to records unless you're it's everywhere. And, uh, the story goes, it was Tuesday afternoon and, uh, the only time the station played the song, the only reason they played it because the DJ liked the song. I think it was K rock in New York, but he plays hold my hand and Letterman's driving home after the show.

And he hears Hold My Hand on the radio and he pulls over at an area or something and he calls his booking agent and says, I want Hootie and the Blowfish on my show this week. Wow. That's cool. And we played that Friday. No kidding. That was a Tuesday and you played Friday? Dude, we played Friday, got in a private jet to fly to Columbia because we had a show in Columbia that night. And, uh...

Friday, we were a band struggling but doing well and still making money. And by Monday, we were about to be the biggest band in the world. It took off that quick. Because of Letterman. Letterman. Wow. Do you realize there was a year period where he said the name Hootie and the Blowfish on his show every night? No way. He would come back from commercial, look at the call and just go, Hootie and the Blowfish and just go on with the show. Almost a whole year. Wow. Wow.

You and I have something similar that your mom raised all of you. Yes. And five kids in my family. How about you? We had six. Yeah. It's not a competition, guys. You win. You win. And so there's part of that because for me, it...

Growing up in Chicago, no heat. One winter, the car repossessed, the house almost going away, could barely feed ourselves, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff. It does drive me incredibly sometimes to a fault, but I don't mind, to never want to go back. Yes. And so is some of your discovering your spirituality and coming into that and your drive to success, does it come from any of that? Is any of that a driving force? It comes all from that. Yeah. My whole work ethic...

in my whole having to be successful and having to go out there. And when my mom died, Hootie and the Bofors went from something I really wanted to something that I had to make happen. Sure. Because I was second to the youngest kid and, you know, you're basically raised by your siblings because your mom's working all the time. And just like you, you know,

Sometimes not knowing if you're going to eat. And sometimes, you know, we never had air conditioning and you're living in South Carolina where it gets into 105. Same, Chicago, no air conditioning. My mom goes, well, just put a bowl of ice in front of the fan. Yeah, because that's safe. And by the way, it doesn't work at all. It's like something blowing on you. It's like... Exactly. And with that, growing up that way,

Success for me, and it wasn't just for me, it was for my brothers and sisters too. It was for my family, my cousins. It was to go out and to show my mom that all of her getting my back as a kid when my brothers and sisters would tell me, you listen to that white boy music. Why you listen to that white boy music? And she'd tell him, leave him alone. He can listen to whatever he wants to listen to and kick him out of the living room. To show her that those days weren't for nothing. I had to be successful.

Yeah. So when you grew up, you only listened to country music? No, I listened to everything. I listened to rock and roll, country. Went through the family? Oh, no. No, just me. Wow.

Wow. No, they listened to R&B. All we listened to when we were around as a family was R&B music. But when I was in Alone, I used to tune in to Grand Ole Opry on Saturday night. You could get WSM late night on AM radio. And it was, you know, and my mom always had my back. Well, always until she couldn't take it anymore. Like when I went through my Kiss phase and I was playing Kiss all the time, she'd listen to Kiss Alive 2 twice and then she'd walk into the living room and go, hey, honey, let's listen to this for a minute. She'd put an Al Green record on.

Yeah, sure. Kiss phase was a bit much. So do your kids now, like, appreciate what you do? Like, are they into it, or are they just like, oh, God.

They like country music, you know, but no, I can't say they sit and listen to my records when I put them out. That's so wild to me. You know, I got a single coming out, and my daughter, I sent it to my daughter, and it's a great song. I think it's going to be one of the biggest songs I've ever had. And the only thing my daughter said to me was, my 19-year-old was, Dad, I just don't think you should say flip-flops. I don't like the word flip-flops. I was like, you just listened to that song, and what you got out of it is the word flip-flops? Flip-flops.

Let me tell you something. My good friend Jimmy Buffett uses flip-flops in half his songs, and they do very well. He does very well for himself. Absolutely. When I die, I want to come back as Buffett. Trust me. Yeah, he's a great guy. Do you know Jimmy at all? I do. He's a great guy. He's a great dude. Oh, my God. Awesome. And by the way, I just want to say this to you guys before we get any further. When Sean asked me to do this podcast, and my exact words were to my manager was, those three guys don't even know who I am. What are you talking about? What are you talking about? I...

I'm a gigantic fan. I literally had all your albums. I'm such a major fan of you guys. And I was like, man, this is the greatest thing anybody's ever asked me to do. I'm so honored that you're here, man. You have no idea. Thank you. You have no idea. I truly, truly am not making that up. I used to sing to your songs all the time.

all the time in the car, the CDs. Yeah. Just put them in the little slot, play the CD, and try to sound like you so badly. It was so embarrassing. I'm sorry. Do it now, Sean. Should I try a little bit? Yeah, give it a little bit. Just a little bit. Give it a little bit.

No, I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna do it. You have to. No, 'cause I'm already laughing at myself trying to do it. When you feel it later on, you can just do it totally impromptu. Right, when you find the breath. Darius, I always wanted to know too, what inspired you to go from hootie to solo?

And why do you think you're successful at it? Because when so many people aren't making a crossover from genre to genre, because what would Hootie be, like folk pop? Yeah, you know, we were a rock band at first, but we were becoming more of an Americana band, I think. You know, folky, more band. And then what did the guys think, too, when you decided to do all that? A lot of questions in there, sorry. Yeah, they, well, I thought Hootie was going to tour every summer for the rest of our lives. That's just what we did. And we were touring, and our drummer got remarried.

Actually, he married our guitar player's ex-wife. And he came in the bus one day and said he didn't want to be a touring band anymore. I mean, we're on the road and I get called into a meeting and that's what he says. And it shocks us because that was our rivalry. Like effective immediately or at the end of the tour? We're in the middle of the tour. He's like, end of the tour. You know, I'll tour next year. But that's it.

And this was after the marriage. So it's Yoko that didn't want you guys to keep going out there, right? Yoko said, no, no, no, no, no more. Don't quote him on that. That's not what I said at all. He did not say that, Jason. I kind of did the math myself. Yeah. So wait, so it was the drummer that wanted out. It wasn't the guitarist saying, I won't tour with this son of a bitch anymore because he married my ex-wife. No, no. I want all the Dirt Darius right now. That's, you know, the drummer. He said he wanted out and, uh,

My first thought was, I guess I'll go make my country record now. Your first thought was not we'll get another drummer? No, I guess I'll go make my country record. No, we would never do that.

The four of us are the band. We would never go get another drummer. Like, that wasn't even an option. Once he's gone, that's the end of the band. Yeah, once one guy leaves, that's the end of the band. But weren't you, like, scared to just be like, well, that's it, so I'm going to go make a... Like, the odds of you succeeding at country were probably, like, so low. Absolutely. And then you just broke through like a rocket. I didn't expect any success. I really didn't. Like, even when I got a record deal, my whole thought was, man, I'm going to make a good enough record so they'll let me make another record.

I was looking at the picture, looking at the picture of being a black guy, being the guy coming from pop over to country music. That never works. And that's just strike one and two. And you go in and you think it's never going to work. But I'll be honest with you. I signed with the president of the label. And he said he called 13 people the day he decided to sign me, 13 that he thought were the tastemakers in Nashville. And 12 of them said it would never work, ever. Wow.

Wow. Wow. Did you have trouble creating a band, grabbing musicians to create your recording band? No. Not at all. Everybody wanted to play. We had auditions and people were shocked because you don't do that in Nashville. What's that, auditions? Yeah, you don't do auditions in Nashville. You know guys can play and you pick guys and you say, come play with us, you know. But everybody came to the audition and we picked our band.

Oh, that's cool. And do you ever get tired of playing the hit songs? Because we never tire of hearing them. But do you ever get up there and like, oh, God. I'm one of those guys that when I start the opening line of Let Her Cry, Hold My Hand, and you hear that hit from the crowd, I'll play it the rest of my life. Oh, wow, yeah. Every night for the rest of my life. That's great. Absolutely. That's great.

And here's something that you've done that's amazing that maybe not a lot of people know is your charitable efforts with...

the St. Jude's Children's Hospital, you raised over $2 million so far. Wow. Yeah. Which is crazy. And Will raised like, what was it? 25 bucks for some new headshots. Oh. It's a GoFundMe. I didn't raise the internet. You didn't go fund me. They voted on my headshots were terrible. Yeah. It should be known that they were terrible. Oh, sure. Otherwise you wouldn't have raised all that money. I wouldn't have raised all the money. Right. Well,

Well, you get what you pay for. Yeah. But why St. Jude's Hospital? What's important about that one? Which it is for obvious reasons, but why to you? Sean, why do you hate kids so much? Exactly. That's the question. I don't have any. I don't want them. I don't want to look at them. I don't want to have them. Darius, why St. Jude's? According to the internet, St. Jude's helps kids recover from terrible diseases. They got their whole lives ahead of them. Why the hell would you choose them?

Why wouldn't you choose them? I meant to you personally, your personal connection. Well, I went to visit there. And Dierks Bentley and I went there one day. And when I started talking to the people and I was talking to one of the doctors, and the thing that really got me was how...

No one has to pay anything. I mean, I know when poor folks' kids get sick and they go into hospitals, they don't just come out of the hospital with their kid being better. They come out of the hospital with this bill that is going to be around their neck for the rest of their lives. Right. And, you know, St. Jude's, no one ever... They fly the kids in. They put the parents up. They feed the parents every day. That was...

It was amazing. And the price of that is crazy. And then the thing that stood out over the top was when the doctor told me, if we found a cure for cancer today, we would put it on the internet tonight. Right. And I thought, that's unbelievable for a hospital to do that, to put all their cures on the internet so other hospitals could just go use them. I thought that was amazing. Yeah, well, bless you. That's a lot of money for them, and bless you for raising that. Thank you. A million bucks. Thank you. Amazing. Thank you. Jason just quickly Googled the word charity. Yeah. He was like...

I'm saying there's a...

There's a sweet charity. There is... Sweet charity. So did you just perform a bunch of songs from that musical show? Is that what Sean's talking about? Yeah. If they could see me now, hey. Actually, that's something you guys, if I ever do it again, I'll let you guys know because I've done it in LA before, but the Southeastern guy for Sinatra, his name's Peter Graves. He was Sinatra's Southeast guy for like 30 years. And I do it,

maybe once every other year, but I do a big band show. He puts together a big band for me and we do all like standards, Louis Prima and Sinatra. I love that. I love that. It's fun to watch. If I do it again, I will let you guys know when you invite. please. I would love to see that. It's a lot of fun. A lot of fun. And with all that you've gone through. Is Jason stuck again? Is,

No, no. I started to fantasize about my father-in-law's Paul Anka. And I started thinking he probably would jump up on stage there and do all those standards. I would beg him to jump up on stage. Oh, yeah. You guys would be awesome. But with all that you've gone through and everything that where you come from, where you are.

the good fortune that has come over you your whole life with your family and music, what is the best advice you've ever gotten or given? The best advice I ever got? When I came to country music, Brad Paisley said to me, be yourself.

And he said, don't be what you think they want you to be because they don't want you to be that. And, you know, it was something I probably would have done myself, but the way he said it was just, I really took it to heart. That's great. He's a good friend of ours. Oh, he's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And the best advice I give. He gave us some advice. He said, keep your day job. And we're not sure what that meant, but. He said to me, find a different persona. He said, find a completely different persona and go with that. Yeah. Yeah.

Don't trust your instincts. He was very helpful. I love that guy. Well, you are a true rock star in life and in everything else. So thanks for being here, Darius, today. Oh, no, thank you guys for having me. Thank you very, very much, buddy. And please let us know next time you come out west when this damn virus goes bye-bye. I will, man. I'd definitely love to hang out with you guys. That was a lot of fun. And really quick, I just want to say because I was such a huge fan of

of hootie and because i was such a big fan of you there i followed you over to the country scene where i don't usually roam and uh i'm a full-on supporter and a huge fan so thanks for inviting me over there and well thank you and sharing your stories through your music which i love thank you for saying that thank you guys great to meet you thanks very cool thanks darius i'll see you guys later all right take care pal take care peace bye buddy

God, he was great. He was great, wasn't he? Yeah. Isn't it wild that all of his songs, when an artist can achieve when their songs are part of us, that we know all the words, even if we don't know we know them?

And I want to be with you. Yeah, we just... I know. Don't ruin it. It's so rare to achieve in songwriting that level of success where people just know your songs. Right, they're just part of our unconscious. Yeah. It's always there. And he's one of them. I know, it's incredible. And he's one of those huge... But that's why it's so interesting to...

you know, that moment, like he talks about that week where on a Tuesday they're nowhere. They get a phone call because Letterman heard them on the, happened to hear them on the one play on the radio. And that's not by Friday. They're on the show. And by Monday their album is, and their lives change forever from that moment on. It was great to hear him say that when he starts playing one of the hits, he'd get that kind of reception from the audience. He's, uh,

he's accepting that. He's saying, you know, this is something that I created that is sort of always going to be there and he doesn't see it as like a, you know, some sort of anvil around his... Right, because I think one of the biggest mistakes artists make is to run from the thing that made them famous. Yes. Is to not embrace it because I did that. I made that mistake when I was younger and...

I was like, I can do other things. I'm never going to do magic again. Yeah. Well, you know what, man? Sorry. Listen. No, but... And it's not until you realize, oh, you have to be grateful. Our fans are the reason we are, you know? We are in the business and you have to... Sean, the magic dig was a dig at me and...

Oh, I thought you meant me going back to magic. No, you reveal in a different way every day how much you've not watched Arrested Development. Like none of you have not watched it. You haven't watched it with prejudice. Let me just stop you right there. I told you guys I've seen Arrested Development. I've seen the first two episodes. Now here's the problem. Try watching it without a sneer on your face and an alcoholic beverage in your hand. It's unbelievable, Sean. How many episodes have you watched it?

Why won't you look us in the eye? How many episodes have you seen of Will and Grace other than the ones you were on? I've watched one. Okay, there you go. It was the one I was on. That's not true.

I've watched so many episodes of Will and Grace. With the two, obviously I watched it with the, I loved Will and Grace and the guy and the bartender in Boston and you guys all worked in the bar together. Yeah, it's New York. Everybody wants to know your name. Please don't ask me, please don't ask me, please don't ask me, please don't ask me. Jason, what's your favorite episode of Will and Grace? Please don't ask me.

Did I say that out loud? Oh, no. Please. Somehow this mic is inside my brain. You know. Listen, I love Will and Grace. I mean, who would have ever have thought to place a sitcom in a church? In New York. Will and Gracie and Frankie. I love that show. It's so good.

And you and Jane Fonda and everybody. Yeah. So the show, it's almost like they were best friends and they were perfect for each other except for he was gay. So like they couldn't be together. But in a weird way, they were kind of like the perfect couple. Kind of like a modern odd couple. A modern odd couple. All right. Darius was great. What a great. We love him. You did not know him before?

Me? No, I never met him. Never met him. No, but I'm a huge fan. Yeah, of course. So you just reached out, just cold call? Well, I drove by his house. I had a mask on. Not like a surgical mask, like an actual Halloween mask. I had a Mike Myers from the Halloween mask on. You did not sing to him. No, I didn't. Do you feel like you can now? Yeah. Hold my hand.

If you closed your eyes, would you think you were listening to an album? I think somehow your grandma got a hold of your mic. Who has been dead for a long time. Thanks a lot. No, I knew that part. That's what I'm saying. That's how bad it was. It sounded like a dead woman in a box. It's like sitting on her chest, and that was the air that came across her larynx. You know what I mean? Woman in a box is the name of my biography. Okay.

You're making me wheeze. You're making me wheeze. Okay, guys. That was great. Talk to you later. Bye. Bye. Jason's still bummed that we... Guess what? The audience is bummed about that, too. They're finding... They're getting their thumb to the stop button before we get to the... That's our trademark goodbye. Bye. Bye.

I thought that it upset you so badly. You ruin every show. Every show. Ruined. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. If you like SmartLess, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.