Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Hello, listener. This is Jason Bateman along with Will Arnett and Sean Hayes for the podcast called Smart List. If that's a place you're looking for, you found it. Congratulations. It's not a real high-concept podcast. One person invites a guest, the other two don't know who that guest is, and then we chat. Here we go. Smart. List. Smart. List. Smart.
I have a quick question. To the side of Will is a window where I see workers just constantly not giving up. Really a lot of decoration going into Denny's room. Yeah, what are they doing over there? Are they building a room for your awards that you hope to get one day? Yeah, well, I just said, I said, look, I'm doing this podcast and this thing's about to clean up. So I'm going to need...
a shrine built so it's it's not an actual shrine yet obviously it's just the the base of a shrine what are they building um no they're building this is this is the baby's room the new baby um we're renovating the the what used to be the guest room uh is now little denny's room so that's nice did you ever have a guest in that den do you get it i have had a couple guests in that room jason really such a yeah boy the way you asked that was so shitty tell me who
My parents once never made that mistake again. They're listening. My parents are not listening. They don't listen to my... They might, or somebody they know may hear this and then send it to them. Yeah, more likely. Although I do that all the time. I take shots of my parents as a bit all the time on Kimmel, and I'm always joking that they'll never hear it. And then my mom will send me a text like...
"That is absolutely not true, what you said on Jimmy." And I'm like, "Oh my gosh. No, it's a bit." - I always try to throw my wife under the bus for bits on talk shows, and she put the kibosh on that early on. And I got nothing. After that, I got nothing. - I constantly use Scotty. It works every time. - It always works. My favorite target is Jason. - I take a lot of fire. - He takes a lot of fire. - I feel like I'm the second. I would love to know who the third one is. - Listen, Sean, if you want me to take more shots at you, all you gotta do is ask.
What are you doing? Holy crap. That brings me to our guest today, our very special guest. This person has excelled in their field beyond belief. This person has scored...
656 goals. Over 1,500 NHL games. He has won three Stanley Cup championships as a player. One Olympic gold medal as a player. One gold medal in the world championship. He's one of an elite group of people who were in the triple gold club, they call it. I was actually at the ceremony with this guy. You can't do better than that. He then took his career after his playing career and
And after an illustrious career, drafted number two in the NHL draft, after this Hall of Fame career, which I couldn't make the ceremony because I was busy that weekend and I don't think he's ever forgiven me. Has he won any awards for the hair? He has. He's got incredible hair. Incredible hair. He worked for the NHL and the Player Safety Department, which used to be the sort of rules enforcement, and he changed the name to Player Safety because he's all about good PR. He's a great guy. By the way, it sounds like we don't have to talk to him because you're just...
He is now the president of, he's the president and an alternate governor for the NHL, president of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Is that right, eh? Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Brendan Shanahan. Let him go. Let's see when it gets good. Thank you. There he is. Hello there. Dry eye. Dry him up, Shanahan. Let me dive right in and ask the first question. How in the world did you and Will meet?
Why are you and Will our next? When did that happen? By the way, Shani, feel free to tell the real or a fake story. Well, I'll tell the fake story first. I forget if we... I think we were at a gym working out and I needed a spa. That's how it always starts. Always starts like that. Me too. That's our fake story. That's our fake story. Barroom brawl.
The true story is I was on the fifth floor of Barney's looking at sweaters and all of a sudden Will Arnett walked up to me and was like, hey, man. Hey, man. I know some people you know. Oh, boy. Yeah. And it's my go-to pickup line.
It was actually, you know, Will and I, I think, Will, you're a year or two younger than me, but we did grow up in the same neighborhood and we had some friends that we went to high school with. And so I think you can help and mention that. Yeah. And yeah.
I didn't really know at the time that it would lead to all of this. Otherwise, I probably would have walked away. But what was the next step? The changing rooms? I mean, was he like saying, well, let me see that on you. And I mean, you want fresh eyes, right? You want fresh eyes.
Let me help you put that color combo together. And he picked out some pants. I think that's cute. That's it. Well, I think we stick with the fake story. Barney's. And by the way, now, and now we're dating ourselves. Like the kids are going to go Barney's. What's a Barney's. And it doesn't even exist. I know. You'd have to meet online. Very vintage. You'd meet it like Mr. Porter. Meeting guys online.
Yeah. By the way, speaking of when we met, actually, I'm sorry, Will, but Jason and I go even way further back than you and I. That's right. That's true. That's right. Can't wait for our story. It was the Hogan family, wasn't it? It was through Josh Taylor. Sean, this is our story. Okay, got it. You and I today. This is it. This is it.
Hopefully in 30 years, we're going to be retelling this one. Yeah, keep your computer on. What was his name, Jason? Wasn't it Josh Taylor, the guy who played my dad on the show? He was buddies with you or with Sean Burke or with somebody with the Devils, right? I was at a charity thing for Wayne Gretzky in Brantford, Ontario in the summertime. I had just finished my rookie year. I had just turned 19, and I sat beside him at this event. And after...
After an evening having dinner next to him, he said, you know, you're the same age as this kid on my show. I got to introduce you. When are you playing in L.A.? I said next year. So I gave him my number and somehow. So he thought we were both gay at that time. It took me a couple of years to get. So he was trying to set us up. That's what that was. Yeah.
This really is our first story. This will just parlay so easily. So, yeah, you guys came out. You guys played the Kings. And Josh and I went to that game. And then we all went out afterwards and got ice cream.
Yeah, that's about right. What were we, 19 years old at the time? Probably, yeah. And I think I saved your life at the end of the night. Yeah, and then I got a little, you're not going to believe this, Will. I think I was running my mouth a bit with, was it with Sean Burke? Yeah. Or did I go after one of the thugs?
Who was the enforcer? Danica wanted to kill you. Burke wanted to kill you. Danica. Kenny Danica wanted to kill Bateman. Wait, was I just obnoxious or was I trying to like make fun of people? Both. Well, I guess that's both. Yes, both. Because there's no or in that sentence. Can you remember any of that? Because I certainly can't remember anything. But like, what was I like?
Did I, was I saying I can smell, I can still smell your, your uniform or was I talking about, was it taking shots at Canada? What was I, what was,
You actually were the one that was inviting a fist fight with all of them. What? You were telling them that you might not look tough, but that you were, and that you were going to kick all their asses. By the way, he still opens with that. Can you believe that I stopped drinking? Why did I stop?
And they're saying to me, they're saying like, Shani, like, who's this buddy of yours you brought to this? I think we're at like the airport Marriott just hanging out in a room. We were. That was his spot. That was Bateman's spot. The airport Marriott. Like make quick outs, you know, just in case something gets hot, I can just leave. How old were you, Jason? They were 19, right? You guys were 19 at the time? Yeah. Yeah. And so it's funny. That was shockingly, that was the last night I ever saw Jason. Yeah.
And then 21 years later, now buddies with Will and I'm still shockingly playing in the NHL. I'm 40 and I'm playing for the New Jersey Devils. And Will brought Jason to a game and we went out afterwards and reconnected. We said it had to be a world record for the biggest gap between two guys hanging out together after a hockey game.
It's got to be. Which is weird, which is also weird because you started your NHL career playing for the Devils and then you ended with the Devils. And that is still the longest gap between playing for the same team, like being traded, you know, or leaving and going and signing somewhere else and coming back. Yeah, it's...
It's not really a record you want to have. It just says you're old. I think it's like the longest gap between scoring goals for the same team. It was like 20 years or something. It was just an invitation, a not-so-polite invitation to please retire. They put skates on the bottom of the wheelchair, right? Yeah, of course. For that second round. Now, Shani, are you...
I don't want to get serious now, but are you as thrilled as I would imagine you are that you have earned a position that actually takes advantage of everything that you have absorbed and learned and appreciated and respected about your field? Because a lot of people, you know, they might just kind of max out doing one thing and never really get a chance to diversify into something that takes full advantage of everything that they've learned. I mean, I imagine it's got to be kind of a rewarding feeling.
Whoa, full swing. That's good. You know what? It's actually, it's a great point. I am lucky. It was, but you know, it's probably not a lot different than what you guys do. And when you transition to other, you know, parts of your job and podcasting, podcasting. Yes, yes, yes.
No, but it's – I'll say this. Like late in my career, there was a year where there was a labor dispute with the league, and I was – I believe I was 35 or 36. So I was really sort of winding down my career. And up until then, I had always thought the day I am done playing is the last day you will see me inside a hockey rink. Like I've spent my whole life here. That's it. I can't wait to not have this pressure on me. I can't wait to try something new.
And so there was a year-long lockout where the actual hockey season in 2004-2005 was cancelled. And it was like a great eye-opening experience for me to realize that I actually really loved the game and I loved many aspects of the game. And it taught me as I was winding down my career, I had about three or four years left in my career, that I would certainly, I didn't need to step away and do the
talk show golfing with your buddies telling old stories, uh, circuit. I just wanted to get to work and, and find a reason to get up in the morning and be motivated. And so, um,
That was really helpful. And so, yeah, no, I grew up here in Toronto and I always I always say to my friends, because I lived in New York for a long time when after I played for the Rangers, you know, me being the president of the Maple Leafs is like a kid that grew up in the Bronx being president of the New York Yankees. It's it's just a huge thrill for me. Yeah. Yeah. For us, for us.
That's right. Well, by the way, when I first got interviewed for the job for the Maple Leafs, I'd been retired for five years and I'd been working at the National Hockey League in player safety. And so they called me and, you know, with the media here in Toronto, so hockey centric, it was really important that we kept it private. We kept it sort of out of the media. So
So no one knew. And then I accepted the job just to the CEO. And I came home and I told my wife and my kids. And she said, I said, look, no one knows yet. But I've accepted the job. We've agreed to terms. And I'm going to go work for the Toronto Maple Leafs. And she said, well, you have to tell someone. I said, I'm going to tell the two people it means the most to. I'm going to call my mom and I'm going to call Will Arnett. And
You told me before you told your mom, you were worried that she was going to tell the neighbors, I think. You might be right. I think I texted Will and just said like, hey, man, I've just been named the president of Toronto Made Beliefs. And he texted me back. We did it. Will, did you even know that he was that he was meeting on the job?
No, I don't think maybe. No, I don't think I did. I wouldn't have trusted him. I wouldn't have trusted him. No, I guess I didn't. In my mind, I did. In my mind, we labored over it. You were at the meeting. Shani and I talked to Catherine about it. You know, as a family, we all talked about it. But no, I didn't. But it was huge. It was so great because I was like –
finally i can impose my will on the toronto maple leafs and have you another serious question well but i mean come on you are you you have you have whisper power right so you're not you're not you're not making you know uh tangible personnel decisions but you do have influence because you could say to shanning hey boy did you see that rookie i just think that he is great you know it could be very passive well all joking all joking aside there have you know a
Of course I don't in any real way, and that's not the way it works. But there have been a couple of times. There was a really funny time not long into the job. Shannon, you remember that you were looking at different players and you were starting this rebuild. Sean, you have to understand that Toronto Maple Leafs and Toronto are it. Yeah, I get it. It's all there is. I get it. For years, the team had been –
In disarray, let's say, just to be... And Shani really rebuilt it. They actually called it the Shana Plan, which... Oh, boy. I know, right? And what year... Now, see, now, truly, I'm watching... This is like four, five years, right, five years ago. Okay, because I just started watching the Michael Jordan documentary, and I'm kind of, as you're talking, comparing it to how the Bulls were in the...
the Chicago Bulls, until Jordan and that whole, and Rodman came along. And we got our, this is going to be so controversial, I can't wait for people to say, how dare they say that, but we got our Michael Jordan with Austin Matthews and then Mitch Marner or whatever. These are the pieces that
that shanee's been putting together but you have to understand so they were really trying to he was trying to figure it out but i remember one night i was sitting at home and i was watching and i was like you know who the leafs ought to get they ought to buy out he at the time he was still with the kings mike richards who had won olympic gold who won the stanley cup he's a hard-working kid from canora ontario and i was like they ought to get my grinch and i text you and they go
You ought to think about buying out Mike Richards. And he sent me a screen. Do you remember this? He sent me a screenshot of your laptop was up at that moment and you had been looking at Mike Richards stats. No, he didn't end up doing it, but yeah. We're just connected. We just finish each other's sentences. Sentences. Awesome.
But, Sean, I'm going to give you a little context of something that's really cool about Brendan. And we call him Shani, but you have to ask. No, sure. I get it. Is that in 1987, he was drafted number two in the draft, right? He was a highly touted coming out of junior. Number two, and he was drafted by the New Jersey Devils.
The general manager at the time was this gentleman by the name of Lou Lemorello, who's had an illustrious NHL career as a general manager. He's won multiple Stanley Cups. And went on to start that great sportswear company, too, the Yoga Pants and whatnot. Lou Lemon, yeah. Not a lot of people know that. Nobody knows. Sorry, go ahead. I didn't want to interrupt. Yeah. So he was drafted by Lou Lemorello, numbered to 1987.
When he took over the Toronto Maple Leafs and he was putting together a team, he ended up hiring as general manager Lou Lamorello, the guy who drafted him as a player, was now coming to work for him as his general manager. How cool is that? We just lost our listener. Sean, did you get it? No, I'm the listener. No, I think that's amazing. Isn't that sick? Yeah. Be more blown away by that. That's unbelievable. No, it really is.
I'm thinking about, because I, you know, being gay, you can imagine I'm an enormous hockey connoisseur. Are there any famous gay hockey players? Sure, but they still don't want to be known.
I have a question for you, Brendan or Shani? Shani. We're Shani now, Sean. We're Shani now. Okay. I, you know, I relate the pressure that you're talking about, the pressure to, you know, I want, I want this pressure out of my life of going to the rink and having to perform and always, you know, killing it every, every game or whatever. But then you turned around and kind of created another type of pressure by running the joint. So arguably more, uh,
Yeah. Right. And so why choose to imbue that upon yourself yet again? Well, I think it's the secret that we all sort of learn sometimes a little too late is that, that we do it because we love it. And yeah, I get it. When I look at our players now and I know that there are certain things probably about the game that, that, that bothers them. There's I'm sure with you guys as well, like people would love to be doing what you guys are doing, but there's certain parts of it that aren't as fun that are difficult, but
And so I think it's normal to sort of say, I can't wait for the day when I sort of cross that finish line and, and I don't get criticized anymore. And I don't have people like second guessing me and I, and I don't have the pressure to perform, but, but then once it's taken away, I, I just watched that last dance as well. And, and, you know, our team in Detroit at the time when, when Jordan in, in 98, when the show sort of like the last dance, when they were winning their, uh,
I think it was their second three-peat in Detroit. When I was with the Red Wings, we were winning back-to-back. And I remember being in our – we would play in off nights. Like we were in the Stanley Cup finals. And like if we played on a Tuesday, we'd be off on the Wednesday. But then the Bulls would play in the finals on the Wednesday night. So we'd all gather and watch. So it's weird to sort of go back in time and see them at that time
What I took from that is, and it has to be the same for my industry as it is for yours, that people who are successful can sometimes look very elegant about it. They can sometimes look very smooth, but there's a fire in their belly that is very, very difficult to satisfy. That's what keeps you going.
And I use Michael Jordan as an example for this with my kids. When everybody says, oh, Michael Jordan, what a winner. And I love that one commercial he did where he talks about all the times he failed. And I think that in any industry, in any business, and when I try to say to my kids, kids will say, oh, you won three Stanley Cups, Dad. You're so lucky. And I say that that means 18 times I lost.
Like 18 times I felt like a loser all summer long. Like the Thomas Edison thing. He said, I didn't find 10,000 ways to do it. I found 9,999 ways not to do it. Sean has a lot of experience with failure. So he knows what you're talking about. Do you want me to just jump right in? Is that my cue? No, but I think as you get older, you learn how to handle it better. I remember saying to one of my teammates when I was in my final playoff, like as a 40-year-old, I said,
we were playing a game seven and I was just so excited and so loose and not nervous. And he said like, how aren't you like sick to your stomach right now? And I remember making the recognition at the time that right when my head is finally starting to get it, my body's starting to lose it. And interesting. And so the, the ability to handle the pressure now,
I also think when I was younger, I liked credit. That's what I thought about with the Bulls thing. That poor general manager, it was named Jerry Krause. He was actually a ridiculously good general manager. He found really good players. He had a great eye for coaching, but his insecurity and his need for credit and his need for attention. But I think that that is something that I'm over now. And I really just want to win here for people like Will. Yeah.
So that makes them happy. But, you know, you said that fire in the belly. I imagine you still get that. You have to get that. But now you have to be OK with responding to that fire in your belly without tangibly, literally getting on the ice and and playing real.
really hard, really well, really aggressively, really smartly, et cetera. You have to do it through these proxies that you put in place. Is that satisfying enough or is it even more so? Great question. I don't think there's anything quite like being a player. And I'll say this, it's hard to watch my team play a game seven because I'm standing there in a suit and a suite and I can't do anything. And I remember as a player, I might've felt sick to my stomach that morning or whatever. Like you learn how to,
compartmentalize so that you're not nervous when it's not time to be nervous. But I found it easier as a player to be in those moments. Cause like you said, Jason, you get to go out and use your energy and skate and
body check people and do all these things. And you're so focused, but you want to almost just grab these young guys. And I want it when I was watching the Jordan thing, I almost wanted, I wanted to go back in time and just grab them and say, Michael, go fix this with Scotty and the general manager. Go like, don't let this end, just go talk it out. And I want to grab our young players and just say,
You know, it's like children. It's like your kids. Sometimes you care about them. You want to say like, I don't want you to make the mistakes I made, or I want you to learn what I learned, learn it earlier so you can have more fun doing this, but they have to learn it on their own and they have to figure it out on their own. Would you be able to, to sort of communicate some of the more specific guidance stuff like that in the head coaching position? Do you have any desire to do that at all? I mean, I know it's a, it'd be a step down from where you're at right now, but you'd be more, more,
You know, you travel with the, I don't imagine you travel with the team right now. Do you? I'm in a lucky position where I get to travel when I, when I, when I want to travel. Is that appealing to you at all? The coaching stuff?
Yeah, it is. But who knows? Maybe when my kids move off to college and we're empty nesters, I'll be the only guy to go backwards and go from team president to head coach. That would be cool. Quite frankly, they make more money. Yeah. So...
I think that, yeah, any chance you have to get these young players and sort of help mold and shape them and have an impact on their lives, hopefully a positive one, it would be fun. But my guess is I'll stay where I am as long as I can. Got it. You remember, like, you guys know what it's like when you do a show or you're performing or doing whatever and you have that kind of letdown afterwards where you've got all that energy, you've just kind of dumped it all out.
So when you retire from playing where you're kind of up all the time for over 20 years, 21, 22 years. Yeah. Yeah. And then how long was that? I mean, I was there for and was hanging out with you. But how long do you think that really took that sort of come down period right after you retired?
Well, that's one of the reasons why I wanted to get right to work. Like I remember having a couple of different, you know, ideas about what I wanted to do. And I ended up, the easiest thing for me, I lived in Manhattan, my kids were going to school in Manhattan. And the easiest thing, and it really took me out of my comfort zone was to go work in an NHL office and really be such a newbie. I was a 40 year old, like total newbie. I remember my, sounds like a
joke it makes me sound like an idiot but it's it is actually true at the end of my first day i'm sitting in this cubicle and and around you know 4 45 450 i see some people are staying some people are leaving and i said to the woman in the cubicle next to me like excuse me how do we know when it's time to leave like when does the buzzer go is there a horn is there a siren
Oh, my God. You know, she's probably 26 years old and I'm 40. And I just I was that green. And I poured it all right into work right away and sort of learning something new and being off balance. And Sean, you should know there was a there was a period not long after he retired. I called up one day and I said, how are you doing? He goes, I'm pretty good. But I don't know. It just occurred to me.
I'm never going to fight again. And I said, well, yeah, you're 42, man. You shouldn't be fighting anybody. What are you talking about? Let me ask you a question. What hurts more, punching a guy's edge of his helmet by mistake, like missing his face and hitting the edge of a helmet, or getting a puck in the ankle? I'm so excited to be able to tell three actors, never, never, never. If you ever have to punch someone in a TV show or movie, shake your hand.
It never hurts the moment after you punch. So many people do, they punch and they go, oh, it hurts an hour after when you realize you've broken your hand. In the moment you punch a guy, your hand could be broken. You don't know it. Your, your adrenaline's going. I have some editing to do then I have to go back and some old footage. And so it's, is it the puck in the ankle?
The ankle hurts right away. The ankle hurts right away. Like I said, the fist thing, it's usually like you're, it's like in Ferris Bueller when he catches the ball and about an hour later, he's sort of like doing this going, ow, ow. This is a great point that you just made, Shannon. I'm glad you brought up Ferris Bueller. I'm so happy to bring up
things to people my age that get Flintstones jokes. I get blank stares in my office from all these millennials when I'm like, oh, Lonnie Anderson's hot, you know? And
Lonnie Anderson. Get this. So, Sean, you ready for this? Shani has an encyclopedic knowledge of movies and TV. I love that. You cannot stump him on movies and people who are in movies. It's virtually unstumpable. What was Winona Ryder's first film?
Is it Heather's? I was going to say it's Lucas. Lucas, you see? It's interesting you said that after I said it, but that's great. That was it. Oh, did you say Lucas? Yeah, that's okay. No, you didn't. That's interesting. So I played every single sport. I had three older brothers. I played football, basketball, soccer. I never played hockey. Everything. Everything.
And then, of course, other interests took me into other places that I grew up. I studied piano and arts and all that stuff. But it never occurred to me until, like, several years ago that, you know, I still watch football. I think it's a super exciting game to watch on TV, is the performance of it, okay? Just from an actor's standpoint.
I would see these football players who get like angry or a baseball player would get angry. They get angry just a little more than if a crowd wasn't there or the cameras weren't on. And now, is that true? Is that like from this gay guy who doesn't really, you know, I'm not on the inside scoop of all these, how it's all done.
But just from a performer, from an actor's standpoint, it seems like they notch it up just a little bit for the crowd. And if they weren't there, it would just be a regular game where there's not a lot of hype.
I think there's probably more real passion than you expect, but you're not wrong. There were always times where there was a guy on the other team that would be acting up and really sort of like, you know, getting theatrical out there with his whatever it was, you know, like, I'm so bad. I'm so mad. And we'd be like, those are the lines he would say. I'm so mad. I'm so mad. Yeah.
No, other stuff. But you know, like there was a guy, there was a guy on Colorado. We used to call him Mr. Meany face, you know, it's like, Oh, Hey, Mr. Meany face, you know, like you're scaring us. And then there was a guy in Toronto, like every time they were losing, he'd start a fight late in the game and throw his equipment. And we were like, Oh yeah, yeah. You care more than everyone else. Don't worry. The radio shows would be nice to you tomorrow. You care more than anyone. Um, so it is strange how, um,
Like you, I'm the youngest. Do you say you have three older brothers? Yeah. Same for me. So I grew up and my brothers would laugh at me when I got to the NHL and they'd see me like losing my mind on the ice or they'd see. But the reality is you're in this like sort of controlled environment where it's sort of okay to lose it. And sometimes it's actually encouraged. And it isn't until you get older and you start like having a family. And I always say like perspective matters.
is the enemy of being a really good athlete. Like once you get to an age where you're sort of like, well, it's really not war and it's really not life and death. Like that's, that's your enemy. And I always remember when I was playing for the Rangers, uh,
late in the game and we were up by a goal and the Buffalo Sabres were like coming around our net. There was this young rookie right by the post and the puck was coming to him for an empty net to tap it in and tie the game. And I cross-checked this kid right in the head and drove his head into the crossbar and his helmet fell off and he was carried off the ice. And
We're all laughing at that. Carried off the ice, by the way. But he didn't score. There you go. But he didn't score. But here's the difference. I got his phone number and called him afterwards and said, hey, are you okay? I'm really sorry. And I remember making the mental note, like, you wouldn't have done that when you were like, you know, you're doing that because you're 40. You wouldn't have done it when you were 20. And you would have said, like, even though that was accidental, I want him to think I did it on purpose because then he won't come near me next game. Uh-huh.
So since you've been in the game for so long, not only as a player, but with what you're doing now, a lot of changes to hockey. If you could eliminate one of the new rules that has come along since you were a rookie, which one would you pick? And I also want to hear which one would you make up and put in?
Oh, wow. You know, as much as I tell those stories and I grew up, like I said, I grew up in that environment where it was OK to do these things on the ice. I'm actually somebody that has has been on the record for saying that it's we got to clean the game up. We know more about concussions now and brain injuries and head injuries and the like.
And the game has cleaned up. There's a lot less fighting in hockey. There's a lot less. I mean, look, I spent five years or three years working in player safety for the National Hockey League. That's like asking a former bank robber to work at your bank. By the way, to that, Sean, you should know that Shani holds the record for the most
what they call Gordie Howe hat tricks in the league, which are games where you have a goal assist and a fight at nine, I think. Really? That's crazy. Sean, I'm so nice. He is so nice. I get that. I feel that. You don't have to be afraid of me. No, I understand. I feel like as close as I am to Will, and Will knows, I feel like I get you already. You would get along. Put it this way. Shani, I one time was at a...
at a restaurant and I went to the bathroom and we were having dinner with another friend of ours and I came up the stairs and I heard Shani say to this guy, tell him, I heard him go, say five nice things about me, quick. And I came up and I'm like,
He was feeling low. I go, your self-esteem is so low. I heard that. That was unbelievable. I think I said it to you. Um, so no, Jason, I, so I, I think that the game, um,
I like the fact that the game is making a greater effort to protect players from serious injuries, and especially injuries that could have an effect on them. So I like the rules that are built around illegal checks to the head. And, you know, fighting is something that will happen in any sport. It happens in baseball. It happens...
But to me, if I see a fight in hockey and it's because somebody was protecting somebody or somebody was bullying somebody and you were addressing it, there's probably still a place for that in hockey. But using it as a tool to intimidate or hurt, I don't know. It's going away from that. It's weird now, isn't it? Do you find – I find it –
We were all around the same age, and obviously I grew up watching that whole era. The 90s were a particularly brutal time in the NHL. It was super tough, a lot of fights, a lot of really hard hits, a lot of dangerous hits, lots of dudes carted off the ice. Now when I watch a game and I see a fight, it's kind of unusual. People still talk about, oh, yeah, especially down here they'll say, you know, went to a hockey game and, no, went to a fight and a hockey game broke out. That's not the way it is anymore.
It's rare. And it's rare. I'll talk about my brothers. Like I remember my brother, Sean, my brother, Brian were on the same hockey team and I kind of copied them how they played sports. That's, that's who I emulated and they were tough guys and they played some defense and they played, they scored some goals, but yeah,
I always thought when Brian fought, it was that moment in the stands where the whole arena was sort of saying, and they were lacrosse players, and it was when the whole arena was sort of saying, somebody do something, you know, don't let him get away with that. And then Brian would come running over like a hero, like, you know, and take care of it. But then Sean, when Sean would fight, it was like,
the whole crowd was going, Oh, that was dirty. That was, that looked mean. So I think he's getting away from, from that. Or is it becoming a more offensive league as opposed to a, to a defensive league or game? Yeah. Well, I just like, I don't know. The way I think is not necessarily the way I played, you know? And I know people get pissed off at me when I say stuff like this, but I,
but I don't get excited to see a big hit. I, I, I get excited when I see a big goal and I just, I just can't cheer, get excited anymore. And I want to say anymore because there's probably lots of occasions where I did bad stuff on the ice, but probably I, I don't want to see any of these young, young guys on the ice getting carried off. I just don't, I don't get off on it. You watch these other sports leagues though. Um, uh,
make these huge efforts to, to, to market out the sport and, and increase its popularity. Like, uh, you know, baseball will go towards, um, juicing the ball and putting in clocks between pitches to, to up the pace of the game where, um, so, so they're looking for more offense. They think that that'll be more exciting for people. Whereas like football, uh,
they think, you know, well, careful. We don't want to like say that you can't hit a guy too hard because people tune in for, for sort of the violence and the physical contact of it. So where do you think hockey sits in that where every league would naturally want to increase its viewership and it's, and it's a,
appeal uh and tv friendliness of it as far as you know excitement goes where do you what do you think the best combo is for for the nhl to to what's that you mean like what's the thing they can market what's the thing they can hone in on i think people i tell my my kids this i think whether you're an actor or professional hockey player people are attracted to passion so whatever that how like michael jordan wasn't fighting anybody but he was passionate
I think when you see that someone really loves their job and is really into their job,
even if you don't know the first thing about their job, you're attracted to that person. Yeah. That's, I love watching Olympic hockey. Cause you, you definitely mean I love NHL too, but with an Olympic hockey has got this different sort of like you've got that national pride that seems to pull out a real passion and desperation in those games. And it's single game elimination. It's like, it's one and done. And also you're right. And it's one and done. And there's,
We went to the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver. Shani was kind enough to get us tickets, so Jason and I were there with you, and that was unbelievable. And I remember at the time thinking, like,
This is so, isn't this so great watching the Canada win Olympic gold. And of course, Shani had already won a gold. I'd forgotten that. But tell me what, what was that like as a player? We've never actually talked about this, about the Olympics. I don't think maybe we have, I probably fell asleep, but what, what did you, what did you love? What was that like winning Olympic gold for Canada?
Well, in 1988, the Olympics were in Calgary, but I made the NHL in 1987 as an 18-year-old. So at that time, the moment you were a professional, you could not play in the Olympics. So I thought my Olympic career
dream was was over so my first olympics was um the first time they they allowed professionals to go was after the basketball dream team uh in 98 um we nhl shut down for two weeks and let us all go to nagano and i and and and then in 2002 i was able to go back to salt lake so it's
I couldn't, the whole winning the gold medal in Salt Lake in 2002 is really connected to my experience in 98. In 98, we were the favorites to win. We were having an unbelievable tournament. We were in the semifinals against the Czech Republic and we ran into a hot goalie,
We ended up tying the game with under a minute to go. We went through overtime. There was no winner in overtime, so we went to a shootout. Now, none of us had ever been in a shootout
in hockey for these stakes. So unlike soccer, where they do it all the time, we didn't know what to do. So they're calling out five names and we're all sitting on the bench. Wayne Gretzky's on the team, myself, and like great, great players, probably all Hall of Famers. And the coaches are having a little meeting and we're going to have this shootout to decide who goes and plays in the gold medal game.
And they start calling out names. And I'm just in my head. I'm going, pick me, pick me, pick me, pick me, pick me. And then the fifth name, they go Shanahan. So all I'm thinking is, oh, my God, I hope I get to shoot. I hope I get to score, be the winner and be the hero. They score the first goal. Then everyone else misses. And I'm the last shooter. I'm the last shooter for Canada to advance. And I don't score.
And I let down the whole country and it was very confusing to me. It was like, like I said, we talk about athletes and how they compartmentalize and they're always thinking they're supposed to take that last shot of the game. And they're supposed to sink that three and they're supposed to be the winner. And now I got to wait four years. I don't even know if I'll make the team in four years. I'll be 33 in four years. So yeah,
I went home and after some real soul searching, I wrote on a piece of paper. I didn't tell my wife.
But I wrote on a piece of paper, you're going to make the Olympic team in 2002. You're going to win the gold medal and you're going to score the game winning goal. And I mailed it to myself. I put a stamp on it, mailed it to myself and got it a couple of days later and put it in my drawer so I could prove that I actually mailed it in 1998. So going back and doing this in 2002 was perfect.
personally, it was so much about redemption and I didn't get the game winning goal, but, but I didn't care. We, we were able to beat USA on their soil and they had a great team and we had some, it was just a fantastic thing. When I came home, I went and,
A couple of days later, I went into my office and searched through my drawer and found the envelope and handed it to my wife and she read it. You didn't tell her about it before any of that? Did you keep it a secret the whole time? Oh, yeah. Because what if we lost or what if I didn't make the team? Right, right, right. That would have gone in the fireplace. That's cool. I've learned so much about you during this, but I'm always fascinated with, you know, your whole life, it seems, just meeting you here for the first time, all about hockey, all the time, 24-7. Yeah.
What in the world would you ever dream of doing else other than hockey or have you delved into anything outside of the sports world? Well, that's it. That's it. Bye-bye now. Take care. Bye. See you.
I'm just getting ready for my second career with you guys. Do you want to act? We may have a new slot open on the podcast. Will and I are looking to... Wait, what? You know what? I actually, I've done some acting with Will. We've done some really special pieces together, Will. The one at the NHL. We did some pretty good NHL pieces. I made a video where I played Jenny. And in every video, he kept getting more insane. And eventually, I eventually ripped my shirt off.
And then they played it at the NHL Awards and he didn't know. And he was pissed at me. I wasn't pissed. No, I know, I know, I know. I wasn't pissed. But you know what's funny is I was driving home the other day and I've heard this before and I thought about you when you were imitating me.
I was driving down the street. I saw a guy on the sidewalk walking with a woman. And I was like, that guy is a hockey player. And then as I pull up beside him, I realized he's the goalie coach for our minor league hockey team here in Toronto. And I thought, what is the hockey walk, which I had, I used to have as a player, there was this hockey walk.
And then, and then when I started working at the league, I remember being late for everything. And I was now just walking like a New Yorker, you know, it was like, it was like little short, fast steps, but that hockey walk, you do it well in that one segment where you're sort of cruising around the corner to the elevator bank, you know,
And I'm like, is that how I walk? Is that how I walk? Well, you got to throw those big quads around each other, right? Loop them around one another. Thank you. Oh, you're complimenting him. Listen, if you want to be a good player, you got a big quad. I love Ozarks. I love Ozarks. Oh,
- Well, listen, you gotta have a pro dumper too. You need to have a pro dumper to play in this show. - Oh yeah, I gotta jump back. So Sean, I feel like a bit of a dunce. It is true that hockey has occupied so much of my life, but I'm one of these people that if I pick something up, I get addicted to it. And really, honestly-- - Same as Will and Jason. Yeah, go ahead.
It's really right. Well, by the way, I do think we've all got it. Like Michael Jordan, people, people say that about Tiger Woods when a lot of stuff came out about Tiger Woods. Like I'm like, he's an addict. He's got the addict gene in him. Like, was it normal that a four year old boy plays golf for eight hours? No, he just got addicted to the right thing. Right. And I find like a lot of the best people I know are most successful people that I've met in hockey. They've got that gene and they've just luckily passed.
channeled it in the right direction. But, um, and I'm that way, whether it's gardening or cooking or just hanging out with my kids, like once I get into something, I can't stop. Right. Um, Shani, oh my God, man. Thank you so much for your time. Thanks guys. Yeah. Thank you, Shani. Such a pleasure to meet you and, and, and learn about you and, uh, get to know you. Sean. Can't wait to hang.
Likewise. Thanks, Brendan. Jason, Sean. See you, pal. Wendell. Thanks very much. Thanks, buddy. Bye, buddy. Bye. So Sean, that was, uh, that was hockey. That's hockey. Oh, on, on the ice. Okay. So like I, I've done like, is that like figure skating?
Sure. Exactly. They just... Like Sao Cao, double axel. But it just means that you get to attack your competitors, you know, on the ice. You don't have to wait for them to leave the locker room and have your bodyguard hit them in the shins. Yeah, no, no, no. You can just do it in plain view. No, I mean, look, I've never been... You know, I never watched...
Sit down and watch hockey. I do watch football. I do watch... Have you ever been to a live hockey game? Yeah, I went to the LA Kings once. It's fun, right? Oh, it's so fun. Yeah, it's super fun. Yeah. And... I really, really genuinely wish it was a bigger sport in the United States. Yeah. Why is that, Will? I mean, it's not like we don't have frozen ponds here in the States. Too many options. Yeah.
I mean, it is huge. If you look at the northern states, Minnesota, Michigan, it's massive, just like it is in Canada. But there are also so many big sports here. The football is so huge here, and baseball, basketball certainly. Why did football take off in the States and not as much in Canada? You have the NFL, because this...
Just the stakes are lower. We have the Canadian Football League, which is eight teams, two of which are named the Rough Riders. No joke. Right, but I mean, they had the same timing, the same opportunity for football to take off there as it did here and...
Well, just because the league saddles the border, the NHL, the hockey league, it means that it is bigger and there's more money and it's a bigger deal. When you have Canadian Football League, there's just not the same kind of... They don't have the same money and resources that they can pour into it, so it just doesn't become as big. But hockey is that sport that...
You know, look, Canada is, just by virtue of being that much further north, you do the winter months are longer, and it is just colder out for longer. You think it's as simple as that? It must be, right? It's definitely a factor. But, you know, you go to Toronto in July, and the Toronto Maple Leafs are on the front cover of the sports pages. You know, that's... Yeah, they're huge. Of course I know. But anyway, how great was he? He's such a great guy. I love him. I would love to hang out with him. He's the best dude, and I'm just so happy for him. And he's such a smart guy, and...
Even if nothing else, he's really changed the way that people look at that team in Toronto. Is that right? Absolutely, man. He's changed the whole culture. He's always had a long view on this. And, you know, he has this thing, the Shannon plan, which he's, you know, sometimes people laud him for it and sometimes they try to hang it around his neck. The truth is...
He's really calm. He knows he's confident that in the long term they're going to do well. So, yeah. Well, that was fun, you guys. That really, really was. I really, really liked that. I loved meeting him. I hope this virus goes away so we can get back out here to L.A. or we go over there and we go get a dinner. That would be nice. Yeah. I hope your virus clears up too, Jason. I think wet wipes and a lot of sleep. Okay? If I just tilt down a little bit, you'll see it's really weeping.
The feet's cutting. The feet's cutting. A weeping wound. All right, guys. Super fun. All right, pal. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.
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