Episode 5: “The Strangest Thing”
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Pushkin. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, and I'd like to take a moment to talk about an amazing new podcast I'm hosting called Medal of Honor.

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LifeLock makes it easy to take control of your identity and will work to fix identity theft if it happens. Join the millions of Americans who trust LifeLock. Visit LifeLock.com slash metal today to save up to 40% off your first year.

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Before we get to this episode, I want to let you know that you can binge the entire season right now, ad-free, by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber. You can hear every episode before they're released to the public. Sign up for Pushkin Plus on the Where's Deer Apple Podcast show page or visit pushkin.fm slash plus. Now, on to the episode. Last time on Where's Deer. Where's Deer.

Dia was well aware of my past. We discussed that in full detail long before we started dating. You can pretty much just take out a sharpie and just cross out every damn thing he says. Like, literally, he just, he's allergic to the truth. He is not a man that takes no. He does not accept a no.

If any one of the parties, them or me, the kids or me, was found guilty of her disappearance or had anything to do with her disappearance or death, we would get nothing. One thing that's been bothering me throughout my reporting is my struggle to find an objective voice. I trained at a very traditional journalism school.

Our professors drummed into us the importance of being objective, unbiased, of stating the facts. Almost everyone I've spoken to has some kind of agenda. Okay, maybe not Peggy, dear sister, but everyone else has been smeared with accusations or cloaked in suspicion. I was getting pretty frustrated. Was there anyone who could be an objective outsider?

And then I met Carmen Ibañez. We didn't have deep conversations. I would text her whenever I would hear gunshots or screams over there. And I said, Dia, are you okay? And she's like, yeah, it was a coyote. Oh, it was a rattlesnake. Or, you know, things like that. That's what I would do. Carmen runs a Christian youth camp just down the road from Bonita Vista, Dia's ranch. She wouldn't go as far as calling herself a friend of Dia's.

She'd heard Dia had a temper, so she tried to keep her distance. And so that's why I always had a healthy sense of boundaries with her, because I'm like, you know, I care about your dogs, I care about your animals, I care about you, but we're, you know, I wasn't like friends with her, like per se. Carmen remembers the last time she spoke to Dia. It was about two weeks before Dia disappeared. She says Dia was extremely upset about something Clinton and Krasara had done.

It wasn't the first time Dia had complained about her kids.

But, Carmen says, she tended to exaggerate. So I kind of took everything she said with a grain of salt because I knew she was dramatic. I thought, OK, let's find out what the truth is. Regardless of what Carmen thought of Dia, when she heard her neighbor was missing, she gathered her staff and leapt into action. So, you know, I am a Christian and we're a Christian camp. And so I care about people, even if they're not nice.

Carmen was the perfect person for this kind of job. For our summer camp, we have to practice drills for fires and also for missing camper drill, we say, in case somebody, we can't find somebody. And we time ourselves and we do, you know, searches at every building. I mean, so we kind of know how to do searches for people who are missing, right? Carmen told me her version of what happened the weekend Dia went missing.

And it felt like a breath of fresh air because finally I had an impartial version of events. Finally, I felt like I was holding a piece of the truth. We honestly thought, okay, she probably went hiking and just injured herself. That was the main, you know, that's what we thought. We're going to go find her. We will find her. I'm Lucy Sheriff, and this is Where's Dia?

Episode 5, The Strangest Thing. When Carmen and her staff showed up to Benito Vista Ranch on that Sunday in 2020, the day after Dia disappeared, they expected to be greeted with open arms. But that's not exactly what happened. It was the strangest thing. You know, you would think Harper would have said, hey, thank you for coming. It was almost like we were in the way kind of thing.

It didn't feel like we were welcome. Regardless of the chilly welcome, Carmen got straight to work. We got a megaphone from our camp. We got all kinds of tools from our camp just to take with us. And I was using it to yell out for Dia, basically. And a lot of people were out there. And at one point I became very frustrated because I thought, well, what's going on? And then I, you know, I'm feeling like we're just, there's no direction to this, right? Right.

At some point, Carmen called a friend of hers who worked at the sheriff's department. I stood on a rock because there was no signal and I said, hey, why aren't you here? He said, Carmen, we can't be out there till tomorrow anyways. You know, it's 48 hours. Oh yeah, that 48-hour thing again. It's funny that someone who works at the sheriff's department would say that because Riverside's own standards manual specifically says that officers shouldn't wait before acting on a missing persons report.

They're supposed to begin investigations right away. I did reach out to the sheriff's department to ask them about this discrepancy and many other things, but I did not get any response. Back to Carmen's phone call. She told her friend she thought Harper was acting suspicious.

He didn't share any details that could help with the search, like which places he'd already checked. I said, I have all kinds of red flags going on, just all kinds of alarms going off in my head. I said, there's something not right. I said, and I'm usually right about these things. There was also something else Carmen noticed. He's riding around in a quad with this woman who I don't know who she is, which is Diane Fetter. To me, it looked like there was something going on between them. Clinton has mentioned this to me too.

that he and his private investigator thought Diana Feder, Dia's friend, may have been romantically involved with Harper. To be very clear, though, Harper and Diana both deny this. Eventually, one of Carmen and Dia's neighbors mentioned something incredibly useful. The ranch was covered in security cameras. And she was like, there's not a place here that Dia has not wired with a camera.

She was like, "And I know that because I just talked the other day, I was feeding the animals." And she was like, she would talk to me through the cameras. She was like, "So there's got to be something that shows us what happened yesterday." And because Carmen is Carmen, she sent in one of her IT guys to check them out. So he went inside and he couldn't get it to come up, the server to turn on. He couldn't get it to boot up, basically. He thought that somebody had tampered with it and had damaged it so they couldn't, you know.

He said, something happened here. I don't feel comfortable going back in there by myself. I feel like I'm at a crime scene and I'm putting my fingerprints all over the place. Another member of Carmen's group went to search the meadow. She told Carmen what she saw. Ruby, Dia's faithful dog, had followed her and went straight up to a patch of fresh dirt. She said a dog laid down right on the fresh dirt. We turned around and he didn't want to leave.

It was almost like, it was like maybe she was there. She said the dog, but did not want to leave. We finally kind of coaxed her back and got her to go back with us. When Carmen and her staff got back from being out in the heat, they wanted to make sure to check every building on the property before they left. There was one last place Carmen wanted to search. Harper's White Ford Motorhome.

I said, I just need to have everybody because I kind of wanted to take over at that point. I said, well, somebody needs to go and look. And then they came back and they said it locked.

Nobody offered a key. Nobody... No, and that's the thing. That's when I started just getting really... That was a Sunday when we were all just like, you know, this does not feel good. That was just like the final confirmation. We just need to wait for the cops to get here kind of thing. The consensus was among my staff, it was like, look, I think he

We just got called over to put all kinds of footprints everywhere and to just damage the crime scene, basically. That's how we felt at that moment. And so we left. And that was the final thing that's just stuck in my head. Why couldn't we get into that motorhome? Carmen returned the next day, on the Monday, with homemade missing persons leaflets in hand. But by then, Harper and his motorhome were gone.

He was on his way to New Mexico. And I'm like, why would you leave? So this is your girlfriend. You're supposedly distraught about her, right? I would be, I was distraught even if, and I wasn't that close to Dia. You know, I'm thinking, how can I be more upset about this than you? You know, how is this that, this is not, is not right. How did he just take off?

After that weekend of searching, Carmen kept tabs on the ranch. Diana and Harper held Dia's power of attorney, although nobody else seemed to know this yet. When the cops had finished their search, they turned over the ranch keys to Dia's children, who locked the gate. But one night, soon after the search, Carmen noticed a car heading up the road towards Bonita Vista Ranch. So I saw a car go over there and I went over there and I said, excuse me, what are you doing?

To Carmen's surprise, it was Diana Fedder. That's the one time that I thought, oh my goodness, what the heck is this woman doing here? I don't think anybody, I said, I don't think anybody's supposed to be over here. I said, nobody's supposed to be here. She was like, I just, I just can't get a few things from the truck. Something for the animals. Carmen had called the sheriff's department as soon as she'd seen the car. And when an officer showed up, she went back home.

Carmen brought up so many things, but there was one thing she mentioned that to this day still stands out to me. She told me what Harper said he'd been doing during the window of time Deer went missing. So the story of what he was doing on Saturday kept changing. When we were there that day on Sunday to search, he said he had been burying brush in the meadow.

Like, Barry and Brush, what the heck? And then later on he changed his story to, I was mowing the meadow. This, by the way, is Harper's only alibi, that he was out mowing the meadow. Speaking with Carmen brought me back to the immediate aftermath of Dia's disappearance. I felt like I was seeing those crucial first days in a new light. But my conversation with her also raised a lot of questions about Harper and Diana.

More on that after the break. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, and I'd like to take a moment to talk to you about an amazing new podcast I'm hosting called Medal of Honor. It's a moving podcast series celebrating the untold stories of those who protect our country. Brought to you by LifeLock, the leader in identity theft protection.

Now you may think, I'm smart, I'm careful with my data, I don't need to worry. But the truth is, a lot of your personal information is in the control of others, like your doctor's office, your bank, your insurance provider. All it takes is one breach of any organization that has your info and you could become a victim of identity theft.

LifeLock is a leader in identity theft protection and empowers you to take control of your identity, alerting you to more uses of your personal information and fixing identity theft if it happens. Guaranteed. All your money back. LifeLock offers extensive, proactive protection, and all plans include the LifeLock Million Dollar Protection Package.

So start protecting your identity today. Save up to 40% off your first year of LifeLock identity theft protection. Go to LifeLock.com slash metal to save 40% off. Terms apply.

The Medal of Honor podcast is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. It's a special thing to be a member of Navy Federal because they're a member-owned, not-for-profit credit union that invests in their members with amazing rates and low fees. That's why members earn and save more every year. If you are active duty, a veteran, or have a family member who is a veteran or service member, you're eligible for membership.

Become a Navy Federal member today. Navy Federal Credit Union. Members are the mission. Insured by NCUA. Equal housing lender.

I was joking with my producer Jacob the other day, who's one of Pushkin's most valuable employees. I hired him to be my assistant years ago in the most random manner possible. I think he saw a message board posting somewhere and I interviewed him for basically 10 minutes and said, go for it. I made a wild gamble on someone and got incredibly lucky.

But let's be honest, you can't rely on getting lucky when it comes to hiring people. Lightning's not going to strike more than once. You need a system and you need tools. And that's why LinkedIn is so important. LinkedIn is more than just a job board. They help connect you with professionals you can't find anywhere else. Even people who aren't actively looking for a new job.

In a given month, over 70% of LinkedIn users don't visit other leading job sites. So if you're not looking on LinkedIn, you're looking in the wrong place. Hire professionals like a professional and post your job for free at linkedin.com slash gladwell. That's linkedin.com slash gladwell to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. ♪

I found the whole story about Diana Fedder taking stuff out of Dia's truck so bizarre. It was at night. The ranch had been locked shut and Harper was away. What was she doing there? Incidentally, Diana had actually told me the whole truck story before, without me even asking about it. The first time I spoke to her.

Let's see. So the sheriff's department ended their thing on Wednesday because that's the day I went back to get the canned dog food for Ruby. Ruby, remember, is Dia's dog who had gone with Harper on his trip to New Mexico. Oh, so he didn't take Ruby in the end? No.

He did, but he didn't have the proper food. And I was, you know, I wasn't aware of the proper food that she was supposed to be being fed. And they said, well, she always kept cans in her truck. So I went back to go get the cans to figure out what kind of medicated food she was eating. This interview happened early on in my reporting. Before, I knew about all the weird twists and turns. But after I spoke with Carmen, I felt I had to call Diana back.

I wanted to run through some more of these questions. So I've spoken to Carmen and I just wanted to run... Carmen. Oh, was that the neighbour? Yes. This time, Diana gave me a more detailed account about the night she went to Dia's truck. She told me she went to the ranch with a friend...

I mentioned finding the dog food again, along with something else. And I told all this to the police officer. And we went to the truck and the windows were down. We opened the door, the alarm went off, and we grabbed two bowls, dog bowls, a leash and

some canned dog food from the car. Mm-hmm. And on the front seat was a safe, like a lockbox. Mm-hmm. And when I opened it, there was a gun in there. Oh. I'm like, okay, why is there a lockbox on the front seat with a gun? And why did the police not take it with them?

So I leave with my friend and we go out front. And I guess that was Carmen and her husband. They were walking their dog or walking. And I said, well, we heard a lot. Yeah, we needed to get dog food for Ruby. And we showed them everything. And then I locked up the weapon and then told the police about it.

So, to recap, Diana found one of these guns in Dia's truck, on Dia's ranch, which by that point, I'm guessing, was a potential crime scene. And she took it. Diana said it was for safety reasons. So what happened to that gun? I did not feel uncomfortable leaving a loaded weapon sitting in the front seat of my friend's vehicle with the windows down on property where nobody is staying.

You know, that anybody could come on. I'm like, no, no, no, no. What happened to it? Oh, to the weapon? Yeah. I told the police about it. And then Harper said that he wanted the weapon. And I said, it's fine in my face. And he goes, no, I want to keep all of Dia's property on the property.

By many accounts, Dia did own a lot of guns. I tried to find out what happened to that one. Harper says he doesn't have it anymore. And the police didn't respond to my questions about it.

In general, Diana disputed a lot of what Carmen told me, particularly about her and Harper. Harper and I have never been in a relationship. I met him, I think it was been twice before he had disappeared. While I had Diana on the phone, I wanted to ask her about some of Clinton's allegations.

He believes that Diana had something to do with Deer's disappearance and that she was working with Harper. He's been pretty adamant to me that you're involved somehow. Yeah, he's told the police that and he's told everybody else. Just because you happen to be asked by a friend to help them with their estate or what have you when you ask does not automatically make you the bad guy.

Diana denied having anything to do with D's disappearance. I mean, I can understand, you know, like if something happened to somebody's spouse, the person they could look to is the other spouse, you know, and I can understand why they would consider it at first, but there's no gain. Yeah. None at all. You know, I mean, I mean, there's no money. There's nothing. Yeah.

Diana said there's no value in Dia's trust. Dia was so in debt, Diana said, that her estate is pretty much worthless. This is hard for me to verify because the legal guardian of Dia's estate won't tell me anything about Dia's financial situation. But according to court records, Dia's estate could be worth millions.

Regardless, a couple of years ago, Diana withdrew as Dia's trustee anyway, giving up any claim on Dia's assets. And there was one last thing that Diana told me that directly correlated to something Carmen had said. I asked Diana why Carmen wasn't allowed to search the RV. Diana was surprised and said the RV had been searched. It was searched twice. It was searched on Sunday, Tuesday,

And it was searched again on Monday before he departed in it. But there was nothing in it. Nothing that raised concern. And then she told me this. The only thing that did raise concern was the RV was parked in the field, in the horse field. Okay. And Harper had told the police that he was mowing the field when she supposedly disappeared. Yeah. Yeah.

And he couldn't have because it was up to their needs. So first, Carmen tells me Harper changed his alibi from burying brush in the meadow to mowing it. And then Diana tells me that the grass was definitely not mown. That's really interesting about the meadow. That's really good to know.

I couldn't help wondering, where were the police in all of this?

Had they checked out Harper's alibi? I don't know if they did. But what I did learn is that Harper wasn't exactly concerned about alibis. Because, it turns out, he claims he's known all along exactly what happened to Dia. And he'd seen it all unfold on the security camera's tapes. We'll be right back.

I'm Malcolm Gladwell, and I'd like to take a moment to talk to you about an amazing new podcast I'm hosting called Medal of Honor. It's a moving podcast series celebrating the untold stories of those who protect our country. Brought to you by LifeLock, the leader in identity theft protection.

Now you may think, I'm smart, I'm careful with my data, I don't need to worry. But the truth is, a lot of your personal information is in the control of others, like your doctor's office, your bank, your insurance provider. All it takes is one breach of any organization that has your info and you could become a victim of identity theft.

LifeLock is a leader in identity theft protection and empowers you to take control of your identity, alerting you to more uses of your personal information and fixing identity theft if it happens. Guaranteed. All your money back. LifeLock offers extensive, proactive protection, and all plans include the LifeLock Million Dollar Protection Package.

So start protecting your identity today. Save up to 40% off your first year of LifeLock identity theft protection. Go to LifeLock.com slash metal to save 40% off. Terms apply.

The Medal of Honor podcast is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. It's a special thing to be a member of Navy Federal because they're a member-owned, not-for-profit credit union that invests in their members with amazing rates and low fees. That's why members earn and save more every year. If you are active duty, a veteran, or have a family member who is a veteran or service member, you're eligible for membership.

Become a Navy Federal member today. Navy Federal Credit Union members are the mission. Insured by NCUA, Equal Housing Lender.

I was joking with my producer Jacob the other day, who's one of Pushkin's most valuable employees. I hired him to be my assistant years ago in the most random manner possible. I think he saw a message board posting somewhere and I interviewed him for basically 10 minutes and said, go for it. I made a wild gamble on someone and got incredibly lucky.

But let's be honest, you can't rely on getting lucky when it comes to hiring people. Lightning's not going to strike more than once. You need a system and you need tools. And that's why LinkedIn is so important. LinkedIn is more than just a job board. They help connect you with professionals you can't find anywhere else. Even people who aren't actively looking for a new job.

In a given month, over 70% of LinkedIn users don't visit other leading job sites. So if you're not looking on LinkedIn, you're looking in the wrong place. Hire professionals like a professional and post your job for free at linkedin.com slash gladwell. That's linkedin.com slash gladwell to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. In May 2023, around Memorial Day,

three people broke into Benita Vista Ranch. According to a police report, they stole some power tools, an old car, and a tractor. They were arrested at the ranch and later pled guilty. The reason I'm telling you about this is because it's after this burglary happens, three years into our interviews, that Harper suddenly mentions something new, something he has never told me before.

I'm stuck. I'm stuck with what we do once we find her, you know. Obviously, you know, in my opinion, they've always known it was a murder because the video shows that. And why they... The video that was here at the ranch that was taken. Oh, well, I don't know anything about that video. What video is that? We had surveillance. Oh, God.

on the area in which she was assaulted, basically. This man, who I've been speaking to for three years by this point, is suddenly telling me about a security camera which captured Dia being kidnapped. And he's never, ever mentioned this before. In fact, he told me this in 2021. I always believed that she was going to a safe zone.

So I always felt that she left, but I always felt that she would contact me and let me know that she was fine. That contact never comes. That same year, right before I was thinking of visiting the ranch, Harper told me something else.

He told me the security cameras hadn't captured anything. Yeah, you know what? I'll take you upstairs and show you the cameras. How they do not see what happens is beyond me. And why. And when he finally does mention the videotapes to me all those years later, he describes in detail what he watched on this footage. He launches into this wild chronicle about Dia being kidnapped.

It takes place between the main house and what we call the cabin, which is across the street from the main house. They surround her. As she's coming, they do not talk. They do not communicate. They just surround her. And that's where the big guy halts off and hits her to the side of the right cheek.

He tells me that Deer's attorney called him after Deer went missing and told him to watch the security camera footage. I tried to double check this with Deer's attorney, but in the middle of all of this, he died. So I couldn't. Harper also tells me that Detective Alberto Larrero of the Riverside County Sheriff's Department has seen the footage too.

He's been asked who they were and why they haven't been identified. He claims that the video is not clear enough to do facial recognition on it. Have you actually physically seen this video? Yes. You have? When did you watch it?

So, just to recap, I've been speaking to Harper for years by this point. And it's only after that Memorial Day burglary happens that he brings up these videotapes.

He told me that the people who burgled the ranch in 2023 were the same people he watched on video kidnapping Dia in 2020. There were three burglars that came. They meet the same description of those who killed her, almost identical in height, weight and size. It was hard to reconcile all of this with what Carmen told me.

According to her, her IT guy couldn't access the security footage on Diaz Ranch. He said someone had tampered with it. Detective Lorero also told me that no such tape exists. There was one more strange aspect about Harper's new theory. It lined up with information from some of Kelly Snyder's psychics, who work with his missing persons organization. They said that three people, two men and a woman,

were responsible for Dia's disappearance. We heard this from Kelly Snyder back in episode three. They were all saying the same thing independently. Which was? That she was murdered. She was murdered by three people, two males and a female. She was taken and, you know, killed and buried. And basically that was it.

So is Harper just taking what Kelly's psychics said happened and sort of mish-mashing it with the people who burgled the ranch? It wouldn't be the first time that he treated the psychics' information as hard fact. Ultimately, Harper believes that the three people in the footage are part of a drug-trafficking motorcycle gang and that they're heavily involved in Dia's death. Oh, and that Clinton hired them.

I couldn't help but wonder, is Harper simply making all of this up? If he's lying, it would call his entire narrative into question. And most importantly, his alibi that he was mowing the meadow when Deer disappeared. I have been told by somebody who was at the search the weekend Deer disappeared that your alibi changed. That you first said you were burying brush in the meadow and then you said you were mowing the meadow and

And then two people. I said, I said, rushing or mowing. And people have said that the meadow wasn't mown, that the grass was long. The meadow, the meadow, what you got to realize is where the horses go out and feast. That is approximately five acres. The meadow goes on for probably a mile and a half.

So did I mow all of the meadow? No, I mow what we use and what is planted in grass, not what is brushed. There's no way I'll ever know if the meadow was mown or not. But in any case, Harper is adamant that at some point, Deer's body will be found. Once we find her, which I think without question we will, then we need to address the issue

with the Sheriff's Department of why Quentin Abrams was never interviewed or interrogated. He becomes the main suspect in all of our investigations. Clinton says that the Riverside Sheriff's Department has questioned him, and he's actually spent the past few years deep in an investigation of his own.

He's taken all of his interviews and tape recordings and documents and finessed his theory of what he believes happened to his mother. The deer was taken and killed by a gang. Coming next time on the season finale of Where's Deer? It's an emotional Katrina. You know, it came in, it washed everything out.

OK, was that a location of where the body was? It was a location of something. I don't need to hear that shit. No, OK, no. Well, I need to hear more specific. Do we have a location where we believe that she is? I think there is a deal amongst multiple people to split the spoils of war, so to speak. Neighbors woke up early Sunday morning to the sound of a sheriff's helicopter flying over Dia Abrams' ranch near Idyllwild.

Thank you.

Where's Deer is a co-production of Pushkin Industries and iHeartMedia. You can listen to all of Where's Deer right now, ad-free, by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber. Find Pushkin Plus on the Apple show page for Where's Deer or at pushkin.fm slash plus.

I'm Malcolm Gladwell, and I'd like to take a moment to talk about an amazing new podcast I'm hosting called Medal of Honor. It's a moving podcast series celebrating the untold stories of those who protect our country. And it's brought to you by LifeLock, the leader in identity theft protection. Your personal info is in a lot of places that can accidentally expose you to identity theft.

and not everyone who handles your personal info is as careful as you. LifeLock makes it easy to take control of your identity and will work to fix identity theft if it happens. Join the millions of Americans who trust LifeLock. Visit LifeLock.com slash metal today to save up to 40% off your first year.

This is Malcolm Gladwell from Revisionist History. Hey there, you've got to check out season two of Lord of the Rings, The Rings of Power. It's going to be epic.

To catch you up, Sauron has returned and nobody in Middle-earth is safe. Season two is all about the greatest villain of all time. And if you're like, I'm not into that stuff, think again. If you love action, fantasy, or drama, you'll love Rings of Power. Season two of The Lord of the Rings, The Rings of Power, premieres on August 29th, only on Prime Video.

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