How Do I Learn to Love Myself, Really?
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Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to an absolutely freaking amazing episode of the Mel Robbins podcast. I got to take a deep breath because I have some serious goosebumps about what's going to go down today with you and me. You're about to hear a conversation that I just had with our 17-year-old son, Oakley. Here's what we're talking about. We're talking about self-hatred and self-acceptance.

and learning how to be kinder to yourself and self-love. And you're going to hear that our son used to struggle deeply with hating himself. And this was happening during elementary school, during middle school, and it was absolutely terrifying for Chris and I to watch one of our kids struggle so profoundly.

He was always picked on. He didn't have a lot of friends. He spent a lot of time alone. He always felt like the odd guy out. And we tried absolutely everything to reach this kid, to help him. And so Oak and I had this long conversation about it because now he's 17 and he is so happy. In fact, he's one of the most self-accepting and self-assured and self-loving people I know.

And you're going to hear that 17-year-old happier version of him. And the reason why I wanted to share this really personal conversation with you is because this is proof that you can learn how to accept yourself and be kinder to yourself and even how to love yourself and who you're becoming at any age. I mean, I think it's incredible that he figured this out so young. For me, I've been working on this

literally daily, and I'm 54. And so if you struggle with self-acceptance, if you struggle with being kind to yourself, it is never too early or too late to have an enormous breakthrough in your relationship to yourself.

And this is really important. It's really important because based on the research, there was this massive study done in the UK where they took a look at absolutely every single behavior or attitude change you could make or you could practice in terms of improving your life. And they looked at everything. They looked at changing your diet, practicing gratitude, having a meditation practice, exercising regularly, seeing your friends more, all the things that we know we should be doing, right? But do you know

That the single behavior change that has the biggest and most profound impact on your quality of your day-to-day life is simply being kinder to yourself. Yeah, that's right. According to the research, being kinder to yourself, learning how to accept and love yourself, it is the biggest mover in terms of your happiness, meaning, confidence, all of it.

And the sad thing about the study is that habit of being kinder to yourself, of accepting yourself, of loving yourself, it's the one we practice the least. And so today's episode of the Mel Robbins Podcast is a deeply personal, encouraging, optimistic, at times funny because it's so relatable and sad, conversation that could change your life.

And I'm going to invite you to listen because I'm sure there are aspects of yourself that you hate or that you trash. I'm sure, like me, you're still working on being kinder to yourself and loving yourself. And so there's something here for you. And there's definitely something here for you to share with the high schoolers and college kids and middle schoolers in your life. When you hear a kid like Oakley describe in detail

The things he hated about himself when he was in sixth grade and seventh grade and eighth grade. These are things I didn't even know that he hated about himself. This is so relatable to other kids and to other young adults that you're going to want to share this with everybody. The way that this is going to go is I'm going to bring you into this really personal conversation that Oakley and I had.

There'll be times where I stop and I give you more tools that you can use so that you can learn how to love yourself and practice this habit of being kinder to yourself. Because this is exactly what my last book, The High Five Habit, was all about. The science and the research and the habits of learning how to be kind to and cheer for and love yourself. And one final thing that I want to say before we jump into this is I know that many of you are going to write to me about my relationship with Oakley.

Because that's what happened when you heard the episode where my daughter Kendall and I were talking. The fact is, I do have a really unique relationship with Oak. And it's probably a byproduct of a number of things. First of all, he is our third kid. And you know that you're kind of different with all your kids. So he's the third.

He's also got two older sisters who are major oversharers, okay? And so they have not only micromanaged their little brother, they have also dumped all of their own feelings and struggles and everything with them, and they have yanked his stories out of him.

On top of that, my husband, Christopher Oak's dad is a yoga instructor. He leads a men's retreat called Soul Degree. He's studying to be a death doula. He is a very deep, introspective guy. And that has definitely impacted Oakley. And one final thing, you know, there have been several pretty bad bullying incidents that Oakley has survived. And in each one,

I was the one that went barreling in to protect the kid. When he was bullied at this camp, Mama Bear Mel Robbins, I put the pedal to the metal and I floored it 120 miles an hour to that camp and squealed in there and marched into that camp director's office and gave that camp director a new one. And then I ripped my kid out of there. And I think having seen me just go,

explosive on his behalf, I think it makes him way more open with me about what's going on. So with all of that as a background and one final disclaimer, he is 17. He is in that stage in high school. Every kid goes through it, whether they do it in front of you or not. It's the F's stage where they drop the F bomb all the time and they're all the cool kid. And I made a decision

that as he was talking, I didn't want to become the corrective mom. I wanted to just let the conversation flow. And so you will hear this 17-year-old drop the F-bomb occasionally, so please do not have the littles around. Protect their little ears. And just know that we edited some of them out, but we left a bunch in because I just wanted you to hear a very honest conversation about self-hatred and self-love.

between a 17-year-old boy and his mom. All right, let's jump into it. This is really like your debut on the podcast. Feels great. Glad to be here. Okay. I'm glad you're here too. Thanks for having me. You're welcome. So I...

I want to talk to you about the topic of self-love because the majority of people struggle with accepting, liking, and loving themselves. Right. And you are 17 years old and you seem to have had a profound breakthrough in truly authentically liking and loving yourself. And I was not like that at 17. At 17, I freaking hated myself.

And I have not truly started learning all about self-acceptance and self-kindness and self-love until the last couple of years. And so I want to know, was there a moment that you had an epiphany or like what fricking happened? Yeah, I'd love to tell you. Okay. So maybe you should give everybody a little background of Oakley before he loved himself. Okay. So to give context, um,

I feel like you start to become very self-conscious. 11 to 13 is when it starts. I think that's when it begins. I'd say that I started to be a little self-conscious when I was 13.

I had very short hair, like so short to the point where it wasn't even curly like it is now. It was blue and red and bleach and pink. It was every color. It was every color. Why was it every color? Because I really wanted to just do that. I woke up one day and I was like, I want that. I want that. And then like a few months later, I was like, oh my God, I don't want this. I couldn't do anything about it because my whole head was literally a different color. Yeah.

So I think that's when I started to be like, oh, like, I don't know. Like, I'm not liking myself right now. And also, like, I feel like I was definitely struggling with weight issue. I don't know. I'd look at myself and look at it. I was 13. I was 13. It was weird. Yeah. But what would you look in the mirror and see? Chubby cheeks, double chin, man boobs, moobs. Get out of the shower and be like, ugh, no. And I was 13. Like, I was so young. You told me a story once about... Yeah, the jeans. Yeah. Yeah. So...

Seventh grade Oakley, bleached hair, no eyebrows. I didn't have eyebrows. Well, they hadn't, they hadn't grown it. They were there, but they were really, really blonde. They were very blonde. So it looked like I had no eyebrows. I had blonde hair. And one day I wore skinny jeans and I just like liked how they felt. Like I liked the look of skinny jeans on me. So I continued to wear them every single day.

every single day, like October to like April. And like, you know, that first day in April where it like is just warm enough where you can like not have to wear a sweatshirt or like wear shorts for the first time. And you're like, fuck yeah. Like winter's over. Yes. And so I'm like, winter's over. Like, let me throw on a pair of shorts and I go to school. I'm so excited. And the first, like, nobody even says good morning. The first thing everybody says is your legs look so weird. And I was like,

Like, what? Like, this is the first time I'm ever not wearing like jeans and everybody's making fun of my legs. And I'm like, oh my God. So for the rest of the year, I wore jeans even in like 70 and 80 degree weather because I was so worried about people being like, your legs look weird. That's so sad. I know. Because I was just like, oh my God, they think my legs look weird. Like, I don't want to stand out. I don't want them to look at my legs. What was it like that day at school?

With shorts on having had somebody say publicly. It was more than one person. More than multiple people said my legs look weird. It was like, I just wanted to find a pair of jeans. I wanted to find a pair of pants anywhere. I would have fucking taken anything. I would have worn leggings. Like, I don't care. Give me literally anything other than shorts and I will be fine.

But I just like, I didn't even want, it's not that I wanted to leave. I just like wanted to get the attention away from myself and I had no idea what to do or how to do it. So I just kind of like sat there and thought about it all day. And I was like, my legs do look weird. What happens is when someone's self-conscious, they want to draw as little attention to them as possible. So they just are like, let me throw all this attention on somebody else.

So when they're super self-conscious, they're like, oh, look at your shoes. Like who wears those to like get everybody to look at their, your shoes instead of like, look at their hair. I don't think they ever like commented about my weight. That was never a comment, but it was always like my hair or like the way I acted or stuff like that, where people would comment about it. Um, and I think I, it's just like spiraled into other things. Like me, like being like, oh, if they don't like this, then I'm guessing they don't like this. And it was like a spiral and it was negative and it was not good. So yeah.

Very self-conscious, very like, ooh, continued into eighth grade. And then- What happened? Because this sounds terrible. What changed? Yeah, what changed? Because I think we can all relate to this, where you look in the mirror and you focus on what you don't like. Right. You have an experience of just wanting the attention to be off of you and wanting people to accept you or wanting to fit in.

every single one of us can relate to that gene story, Oakley. Yeah. And I think we discount how these tiny moments where somebody picks on you or criticizes something about your appearance or your voice or your height or your skin color, how it affects us. It stays with you forever. As you're talking, Oak, I can remember an incident that happened in my life. I'll tell you about it when we come back.

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Okay, so your jean story reminded me of this thing that happened in my life. It was ninth grade. And this movie Flashdance was super popular. Jennifer Beals was the star of it. And I was so in love with that movie that I marched right to my mom's hairdresser and asked them to give me a Jennifer Beals perm. Now, to get curly hair like Jennifer Beals, you had to get layers first. And then I got a perm. I walked out of there.

tight curls, wavy, big, moppy perm head. I thought it was fantastic. And so the next day I go to school, Oak, and I'm wearing a sweatshirt, of course, with my shoulder exposed because that was the flash dance dance look. I didn't even take dance classes. I had my bouncy, full, new Jennifer Beals poodle perm. And I walked in

And I'll never forget walking down that hall, just like you with the jeans. It wasn't one person that pointed out the perm. It wasn't one person that laughed. It was like everybody in that hallway. Right. And I went home that night, just like you went home and you never wore shorts again.

I went home that night and washed my hair about 25 times to try to wash the perm out, which you actually can't do. It just makes it frizzier. What happens in those moments is that none of us, when we're kids, have the ability to turn to the people criticizing us and be like, you freaking idiots. My legs are fine. What we do in those moments where we feel separate is we turn against ourselves. Right.

And it's those tiny moments that happen over and over and over again where we turn against ourselves and we become obsessed with making other people not pick on us or like us or fitting in. That's where we lose that connection to self. Because when you turn against yourself, it's literally an act of self-hatred. So what happened next for you?

All right. So what happens is eighth grade comes around. Now, would you say at this point you like didn't like yourself or like where were you about your relationship? It was very like, I'd say it was like 70-30. Like myself 30%, didn't like myself 70%. Okay. But eighth grade, you know, I'm older. I look a little bit older. It was a good year. I'd say it was a good year. I kind of got over that. I wore shorts. I kept wearing sweatshirts though. The top half of my body was a big like...

No, thank you. Because I like my boobs, my man boobs. They were not it. It was like, oh, my God. Okay. This is fascinating. But anyways. We're getting to the point. Because I never thought you had man boobs. I did. I'd get out of the shower and I'd like take a step and I'd like see him like... Big jiggle? I'd be like...

Then I'd like put my towel on around my like upper half like a girl does. I was like, put the blon on. I just like do the top, walk to my room, put my clothes on, throw. I'd always wear a sweatshirt. I don't think there was ever a time where I didn't have a sweatshirt on. You know, Sawyer did the same thing when she was going through puberty because she hated the way her body looked. I knew what was going on with Sawyer, but you never shared this with me. I had no idea that you hated your body. Yeah. And so...

What happened is 2020, big lockdown, everybody's screaming and scared. Shut up. A word, how are you stuck? We are all in the shit show, except for me. It was a time of recreational activities,

No one making fun of me and nothing to do ever. Now I'm not going to like be like, oh, like people had it so easy. Like, no, it was fucking horrible for so many people. But for me as a 14 year old boy, it was the time of my goddamn life. I'd wake up, I'd play games all day. I'd jump on the trampoline. I'd hang out with my dogs. I would eat whatever the hell I wanted. It was fantastic. And I noticed that.

that I'd stop looking in the mirror and being like, I don't look a certain way. Or I, I'm worried that this way that I look right now is going to upset people or all that because I didn't have anybody to show. I didn't have anybody to see. That's right. You weren't going to school. I wasn't going anywhere. I wasn't seeing anybody. I didn't care. I have to stop you because I want to point out two really critical things. Number one,

You stopped caring about what other people thought. Yeah. Now look, you had it easy because you were locked in your house so you didn't have to see people. Right. But when you can figure out how to care more about how you feel today about yourself, rather than focusing on caring whether or not people are going to pick on you for the skinny jeans or your poodle perm in my case, when you can actually stop caring and you can care more about your own happiness and

That right there changes everything. And so what you're describing is you have this epiphany that we all need to have, which is the only thing that matters is whether or not you're waking up today and you are gonna do things that make you happy. That's the only thing that you should care about. And there's a second thing that I wanna point out. Instead of being surrounded by people who are critical of you, which is what was happening in school,

You were now stuck at home with four people who

who love you. Exactly. I knew they loved me and I knew that they respected me and I'd wake up every day and I wouldn't like look in the mirror and be like, well, there are my man boobs. There's like my ugly ass double chin. I wouldn't, I wouldn't see that. I'd look in the mirror and be like, today's today's a day. Time to go fucking play Xbox for 30 hours. Like, you know, it was awesome because we were all together and it was awesome, but it was just like, I was walking every day and I was enjoying my time and I wasn't ever like getting down on myself.

And what I came to realize is that when I worry about what other people think of me, it like drags me the hell down. And when I didn't think about other people or I didn't think about what they were thinking about me, I wasn't like, yeah, like I bet they look so stupid right now. Or I bet their hair looks ugly. Cause like, I didn't know, nor did I give a shit. So I wasn't trying to impress anybody and no one was trying to impress me. So what I really realized was that

When social scenarios get in the way and you are worried about what other people think of you, that's when you get down on yourself. - Well, one of the things that I've noticed about you Oakley is that you're not on social media a lot. And based on the research, there's a lot of kids that came out of that two year weird period in our lives way worse in terms of mental health because they were mainlining social media. So even though they weren't in school,

They were online doing that comparison thing in isolation on their own. It is so freaking damaging when you mainline social media and say to yourself, well, I hate myself. I hate the way I look. I wish I looked like that. And so I think that's an important thing to point out, Oak, that you weren't sitting there doing that probably because you were on Xbox playing video games for 30 hours a day. But that's a big deal. Yeah.

So there was a very poignant moment you described to me, Oak, that I keep thinking about, and I want you to share it with us when we come back.

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Heavenly Bed. Find wellness at Westin, one of 30 extraordinary hotel brands in the Marriott Bonvoy portfolio. Okay, so there was this very poignant moment, Oak, you described to me where you had this amazing breakthrough. Can you share what your realization was? Yeah. You only go through life with yourself. You are the only person that you wake up with and you go to sleep with every single night and every single day. And you are the only person that

that you need to please. You are not going to live your whole life with the ability to please everyone else because that's not going to make you happy. Because at the end of the day, if you're not happy, other people's happiness won't boost you. It won't make you feel better. That's a crazy simple way to explain how profound it is when you learn how to accept, be kind to, and eventually love yourself.

And you said something to me when we were talking about this that I thought was really like so simple, but also gut-wrenching in its truth, which is when you were removed from the situation of walking into school where you were worried people are going to pick on you, worried about whether you fit in, trying to get the attention off you, and you were just quarantining with me and dad and your two older sisters, you had this epiphany where you're like, well,

There's nothing wrong with me. There's nothing wrong with me. Yeah. Those five words, there's nothing wrong with me. That will change your entire life. I mean, just imagine how big of a breakthrough it is if you could wake up every single day and believe there's nothing wrong with me. Because the fact is, there is nothing wrong with you. Right. You know, I spent, God, Oak,

40 plus years of my life waking up every day believing there was something wrong with me. And one of the first things that everybody has to do if they're going to have a breakthrough in self-acceptance and self-kindness, you must start to tell yourself, there's nothing wrong with me. That right there, if you could just do that, would completely change your relationship with yourself.

Because we can't stop what other people might say, but you can absolutely alter and reprogram the way you talk to yourself. And so I just want to point out that that bar right there, there's nothing wrong with me. If you just flip from constantly looking for what's wrong, and now you start reminding yourself, there's nothing wrong with me. Yeah, there are things that I could improve, of course, but there's nothing wrong with me. That is acceptance right there. Right. It is. And then you add this second epiphany.

Which is, you thought, well, if nothing's wrong with me, why don't I just like myself? What a radical idea. Yeah. Imagine how much your life changes when you say to yourself, why don't I just like myself? I mean, other people can have opinions, but why don't I just like myself exactly as I am? I mean, I'm a good person. I'm trying hard. What's stopping me from liking myself? Yeah. Well, if you're like most of us, you're basically holding some goal out.

as the thing that you got to do. Like, oh, I'd like myself if I lost 30 pounds. I'd like myself if I didn't have man boobs. I'd like myself if I didn't have bills piled up to the ceiling. I'd like myself if I didn't make all those mistakes. See, that's where we get it all wrong. Liking yourself is not going to happen just because you lose the weight. You could make a decision to like yourself exactly where you are because you deserve that.

And you need it. Yeah. When you like yourself, what happens, and I noticed this with you, Oakley, is that you start to act like you like yourself. You start to be kinder to yourself. The more you treat yourself as if you like yourself, the more other people can have their opinions. But your opinion is that you think you're a pretty good person and you treat yourself kindly. And then it starts to snowball from there. Right.

So imagine if you realize that the only thing that's stopping you from liking yourself is your own judgment. That means you have the power to remove the judgment and add in kindness. And that changes everything. And that's not only something that makes a lot of sense, Oak. Like when you look in the mirror and you're like, oh, I ate my man boobs. Do you feel motivated to do something? No, of course not. That's why I can't make a difference with you because you're

The lack of motivation comes from your self-criticism. And so this whole thing hinges on acceptance first and then kindness towards self. That's exactly how everything changes. And I watched that happen with you, Oak. Yeah, why not just like yourself? Well, that brings me to something. So I want to read to you a question from somebody that listens to the podcast. Okay. Corinne Schillinger.

Everyone says love yourself, accept yourself, validate yourself. These are general terms. No one actually knows what that means. What does loving yourself actually look like? What does that mean in our everyday lives? Please do an episode about what loving, accepting, and validating yourself looks like, feels like. Specific examples. So many people

are frustrated and confused by the advice, love yourself. So what does that mean and give specific examples of what you do? It is an incredibly broad term. Just love yourself. So easy to say. The way I like myself is...

I feel like there's always little things. There's always little things about yourself that you can find that you like. So number one, find something little. You know, it doesn't have to be big. Okay. So give us three examples of little things you like or love about yourself. Right now. Yes. I haven't looked at a mirror recently, but I think I like my hair right now. Pretty sure I like my hair right now. I'm liking my smile right now. I really like my smile. And I'm also liking...

I'm also liking like who I am in my friend group right now. What does that mean? So what do you like about who you are? Give me a specific example.

It's kind of like how I'm acting with my friends and how I'm treating them and how I'm like respecting them and being there for them. I'm enjoying that. I'm liking that about myself. You're proud of yourself. I am proud of myself. Can you give another example that is not about something physical? About something physical. I'm proud of how I'm doing in school. I'm doing pretty well in school. And do you know why you're doing well? Because I'm trying. Yes. So you're proud of yourself for trying. Yeah, I am. See, it's like those little things like,

"Oh, I don't like the way my stomach looks," or "I don't like the way I look." - Or "I don't like my grades," or "I don't like this." And then you don't feel motivated. - Exactly. - 'Cause you're beating yourself down. - Exactly. - And so you find number one, little teeny things. - They can literally be like, "I like the color of my eye right now." It doesn't have to be like, "I look like a god." No, just has to be like very little. - Yeah, start with, "I love the shape or the color of my eyes." - Yeah. - "I love the sound of my laugh."

Find something small. And I'm focusing on simple and small habits because this is not something that happens overnight. Self-acceptance, self-kindness, self-love is a habit. You have to practice it every single day. Find one small thing that you like about yourself. It could be that you're a great friend, that you have an amazing laugh, that you're a wonderful cook, that you're a terrific son.

that you try really hard at work, that you are proud of the way you're working on your boundaries. And if you can't think of something, look in that mirror and look at your iris and just compliment the incredible miracle that is that unique pattern and color that is unique to you of 8 billion people on this planet.

You're the only one with an eyeball that is designed and looks like that. And that is freaking cool. Yeah. But I just wanted to take a minute and say, it's hard. You know, Oak sounds really upbeat and so do I. And we're joking around because we have a great relationship and Oakley doesn't hate himself anymore. And I'm actively working on self-kindness and self-love. But it's hard, right, Oak? It's definitely hard.

It's not going to be easy to love yourself and it takes time. It's like a muscle. I'd say it's definitely like a muscle. When you work at it and you start off small, like start off with small weight and then you get bigger, it becomes easier. When you start to try and work at it and you work more, it's going to become more unconscious that you are nice about yourself. Oh my gosh, Oak. That's the high five habit. The most important habit that helps with self-love and self-acceptance.

I'm going to explain it. Cool? Yeah. Okay, cool. So the high five habit, super simple. Don't overthink this. I will do an entire episode about the high five habit, probably in January because there's so much science to cover and so many stories to tell you. Here it is. Tomorrow morning, after you finish brushing your teeth, put the toothbrush down. And now I want you to do the high five habit. First, you look in the mirror. For many of you, that's going to be the hardest part.

50% of men and women based on our research cannot or will not look themselves in the mirror because they do not like the person they see. And so I don't want you to be surprised if simply looking at yourself in the mirror is really difficult. Step two, you are then going to raise your hand and high five your reflection. It's just unbelievable what happens when you simply high five yourself in the mirror. When you go to raise your hand, I don't want you to say anything, nothing.

It's just about the action and watching yourself high-five yourself. The action alone of high-fiving yourself does all the work neurologically, physiologically, chemically, and psychologically. We've had 164,000 people in 91 countries go through a five-day challenge with me called the High Five Challenge, and the results are just irrefutable. It will take less than five days for you to have a breakthrough in self-love, and

If you simply look in the mirror every morning and send yourself into your day by high-fiving yourself in the mirror. You may laugh. The reason why you laugh is because your brain releases dopamine. This is really normal. You might burst into tears. That's also very normal. Because you may not have looked at yourself for real or been kind to yourself for real in years.

This is the fastest way based on science to start rewiring your brain and to have a breakthrough in being kind and loving to yourself. And it works at a reprogramming level in your nervous system and in your brain. All right, Oakley, thank you for letting me do that. Yeah. Let's bring it home. Actually, I have another thing I want to say. Tell me. Guys, compliment each other.

Oh, great idea. Bring up positive things about your friends. Like if you don't want to draw attention to yourself and you want to draw attention to each other, be like, I love the way your hair looks right now. Or that was a really good point you brought up in that meeting or in class or just like that feels good. You can make other people feel good. Yes, you can. And it makes you feel good. And one of the things that I learned later as a parent that I now do a great job at is I don't just compliment how you look. I compliment... A specific part of how I look.

That's not what I was going to say. Oh, what the fuck were you going to say? I was going to say your character. Oh. You're a great friend. Yeah. You try really hard. Yeah. I love that you, I love, you know what I love most about you? What? Other than your like amazing. Aura. Yep. Your aura is great. I love your aura. I would say it's purple. It's like purpley green. Yes. It's a little green fuzz there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, what I would say about you that I love most is I really admire you.

how in tune you are with your own values and how you live by them. I admire that in you. Thank you, mom. You're welcome. It is important to compliment personnel. I think personality is like even bigger than looks. I feel like when I get compliments on like how I act, I feel like so much better when I get like a compliment on how I look. Of course, because you can control how you show up. You can't control what you look like. It's true.

Well, I love you. I love you too. And I believe in you. And I believe in you guys. And I believe in your ability to learn how to love yourself, to be kinder to yourself, to cheer yourself forward. And we're rooting for you all the way. That's why we're here. And we'll see you in a few days. Yes, we will. Stitcher.