Don’t Learn This Too Late: Make An Authentic Life Now, By Getting Real About The End
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Hey, each friend male and welcome to the male robbin's broadcast. Have you ever thought about how you want to die? Yeah, me either. mostly. I think about how I don't want to die.

What if I told you that thinking about your death could be the key to living your most viBrant for filling life right now? Today, you and I are sitting down with someone who will transform the way you see not just death, but life itself. August is best selling author and death ua.

a. lua. Arthur SHE says that there is a way to use your death is something that's incredibly she's three questions that she's going to ask you today and an incredible exercise to share that he wants you to do every year on your birthday.

It's going to help you unlock deeper joy, purpose and happiness in ways you've never imagined. This conversation will chAllenge you, move you. And my hope is that IT inspires you and how you live the rest of your life. Starting today.

the male b's podcast is proudly .

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Whether you're on the road at home or traveling long life's journey, their friendly and knowledgeable representatives will work with you to ensure you have the right coverage in place. Omega will provide you with piece of mind, go to amica outcome and get a quote today. Did you know learning a new language can boost your brain power? Research chose that improves memory problems, solving skills and even creativity.

Pretty cool, right? That's why i've been divided into games with rosetta wonder bar IT means wonderful. And honestly, that's I feel about this whole experience. Don't put off learning that language. There's no Better time than right now to get our listeners can get rosette stones lifetime membership for fifty percent off this a rosetta dock sash mell, that's fifty percent off unlimited access to twenty five language courses for the rest of your life we're deemed fifty percent off. And is that stone dark com slash melt today?

Hey, fell, I am so excited that you're here. Welcome to the mill. Robin's podcast is always such an hour to spend time with you and to be together. And if you ran knew, welcome to the Robin's podcast family. Thank you for choosing to listen to this podcast.

And you know what that tells me? IT tells me that you're the type of person that values your time and you're interested in learning ways that you can improve your life. I love that me too.

You know, recently I read something that just stopped me in my drugs. IT was written by a woman named a lua Arthur. Here's what you rote.

Our deaths are practically begging to live. What i'm thinking about my death, I can see very clearly who I want to be. I ve never thought about death that way.

That is going to help me clearly see who I want to be. Well, that's exactly we're onna talk about today a lua. She's the best selling author and a death a and she's the founder of going with Grace, an organization that is trained thousands of people, end of life planning.

And she's flown here today from los Angeles to be in our boston studios to speak to you and me. SHE says that simply allowing yourself to think about your death, how you want to feel, where you want to be, who do you want to be surrounded by, what kind of life do you want to live? You're proud yourself.

Just thinking .

about IT unlocks a deeper joy, purpose and happiness in your life in ways you can never imagine. SHE also has three questions to ask you today and a powerful exercise for you to do every year on your birthday. And if you answer these three questions with courage and honesty, IT will inspire you to make some incredible changes in your life. After you and I spend time with a luis today, I promise you will both be looking at our lives and our death in a whole new way. A lua, welcome to the male Robin forecasts.

Thank you very much for having me.

I am so excited that you're here. And there's a number reasons why i'm excited that you're here are. But the main one is that I watched your ted talk and IT is one of the most beautiful, profound and just kind of jaw dropping twenty nine talks I ve ever seen in my entire life.

I was absolutely captivated. And that LED me to your book briefly, perfectly human. And I have to say, first of all, before you can crack this book open, this is one of the most gorgeous books i've ever seen in my entire life.

And I cannot wait for you as you're listening to us, to hold this book in your hands because it's gonna make you think completely differently about your life. And where I wanted to start is there's so many passages in your book that just had me gasp and reread, and I wanna open up the page ten and have you read to the person listening from your beautiful book. Thank you.

OK ready.

Looking out the window .

towards zero cumulus clouds blanketing the countryside, I think about what I want for my life and who I want to be at. My death is the first time i'm asking myself these questions. Thirty four years old, I realized that eua I want to be on my death bed is a woman who has filled her live cup all the way up and has built her lives.

He feels comfortable living on that boss in cuba. I feel far off from being that ela, i'm a shell of human with a mere pandrick of my left inside my body. I feel the heat of shame for not knowing i've been living dead for so long.

My inside titan, looking around the bus, I take stock of the individuals aboard and wonder what and they will meet. These people are currently distracted by the daily business of living one day. People die if they sense to the immediate cy of life the precious sss of IT is the insignificant significance of IT.

What would they be doing differently now? How many unwritten books, undeclared loves and unfulfilled ams, like dormant hearing these seats? And in these bodies, would they be content dying from the lives they live, or do they hungry? Ry, for more beautiful.

beautiful. This book begins where you start to talk about how death brings back to life. What does that mean? And can you tell the person listening where you are in your life right now? Just personnel, because you're thirty four years old and you're not facing death, you're just contemplating IT. So what does .

this passage mean? This passage means that i'd spent ten or so years in a career that didn't really fit me doing work that, while very important, nobel wasn't really working for me. I put on somebody else in life.

I felt like I was wearing somebody else's skin, pretending I was in somebody else's life, but I was in my own. And that thirty four, at this moment, I was finally noticing that I was not in my life. I wasn't living IT.

I was surprised to find out that this was my life, even though I very carefully created all of IT. And when I look back on my life, I saw somebody who hadn't lived the way that sh'd wanted to. I saw somebody who was living out of alignment with who he was.

But yeah, I kept going and just kept putting my foot from the other. That's not the death I wanted to meet. So something, how to change?

Have you always done this deep?

I look, find myself to be very deep. You should ask my life. Well.

the reason I say that, because I think almost everybody has the experience of feeling stuck. And boy o boy, did I relate to that sentence that you said that you felt like you had put on someone else's life that even though you had carefully created IT, now that you're in IT, you're thinking, well, this doesn't feel like I thought I would feel and what's interesting to me is you're the first person that i've ever talked to who in that very Normal, real human experience, of waking up and being unsatisfied with your life, or having the courage to recognize this isn't what I wanted to feel like, that you immediately jumped to your death. Why is that an important leap? And how does IT help you to access something with a new to truly change .

in full reality? Our deaf are practically begging us to live. My death is my best advisor, is my greatest teacher, is my greatest motivator.

It's the one that tells me all the time that this life is brief and is precious and is short. And so when i'm thinking about my death, I can see very clearly who I wanted be. I can see harm spending my time.

I can see if I am pleased with what IT is that i'm doing and if i'm not, well, my death is asking me to change IT all the time. I'm gonna be the one who asked to meet myself on my death bed. I want to make sure that have been happy with what I was that I did. I was here.

Can you tell the person that's listening, how their life might change if they take to hurt absolutely everything that you are able to share with us today?

My hope is that when we are thinking about our desk consistently, that we we think of our lives and contacts like a big glass bubble that holds all of our hopes and our dreams and our wishes and our authenticity and our fear and our doubt in our insecurity. And when i'm thinking about my death, IT allows me to see exactly you have become. And knowing that i'm still living, I have an opportunity to change IT. I think death can be a great inspiration for us to start living more authentically and be real with who we are and who we want to be.

And you're going to teach how to do that.

Well, do my best to share what I learned a long way.

I have a feeling. You're to teach us how to do that because i'm already thinking about time traveling ahead. And I, of course, create a lot of space for myself between where I am now and where I am when on my death bed. Why is that that we is such a hard time talking .

about death that scares us, makes us uncomfortable. IT brings up of our greatest fears. That brings up our inadequacy.

We feel really, really small on the face of IT. We don't know anything about IT. And nobody you've ever been there all the way has went back to tell us exactly what happens.

We use our human minds to try to think through something that is not part of the human experience. The die is human, but the death part. Well, then it's over. And so my brain can't quite fast with that might be like. And that make us uncomfortable.

I hadn't even thought about the death part. I guess i'm more focused on the sadness that I feel for leaving. Yeah, how does that also prevent us from seeing death as our greatest teacher and adviser in life?

Well, we shot IT because of the sadness and because of the pain, and because of the grief in the law. You know, we're condition to feel the good things all the time. I want to feel happy and free and joyful all and like, I have everything I need but to think that one day, my life and or that of people that I love also makes me really uncomfortable.

And we shy away from pain. We try to do our best to get ourselves from pain. And that's a certain pain that's coming. And so people don't want to think about that too much either.

It's true, and there's a saying that you have that I find both hilarious and comforting, that talking about sex won't make you pregnant and talking about death won't make IT dead. And why is that important for us to be able to talk about this?

People percent is not happening and they percent is not happening by not talking about IT, but IT doesn't change the fact that is happening. And then there's the other side of IT that says I can't talk about IT because if I talk about i'm onna, bring IT on myself, but it's gonna happen anyway and so not talking about IT doesn't make IT not happen IT just means that we are ill prepared and IT goes on when it's time. So we made to start talking about IT it's gonna .

happen anyway. You have um made IT your career to be a death dula and a lot of people have not even heard that term before. Can you explain what a that still is sure a .

death delt is a non medical current support person for the dying person and their entire circle support through the process. When I say the dying person, I mean anybody was coming to recognition of their mortality.

That means that even when people are healthy, we can help them create comprehensive end of life plans to think through there ideas about our thoughts around their death, when people know what they are going to be dying of, which is typically what we think of a death of doing. We can support them in creating the most ideal death for themselves under the circumstances. And then after death occurs, we can help family members wrap up affairs of their loved one's life. And so we're doing all full scale emotional, logistical, practical spirit will support for the dying.

Wow, a lot of people have hurt of hospice. How is this different from what hospice may provide to a family or someone who's dying?

It's collaborative. It's supportive. I like to think that we played really well together because often what happens is that I can either teach somebody much further upstream like they're still healthy and they are starting to to think about their death or they have a serious diagnoses and they're not yet on hospital and they're trying to figure that out. Um but when somebody y's on hospice, we work really well together like often times uh hospital ers will come into the room and asked me what's going on with today? How is everybody doing what needs paying attention to?

But also sounds like you work with people who aren't. Well, I guess I should correct that. We're all dying. We're all dying and we're all gona die. And you work with people that don't have an acute diagnosis and aren't even that close to die. They are just wanting to use death as a teacher and as a way to really think about and reshape their life and also .

get their plans down. You know, started think practically through IT. I noticed that a lot of the clients that come front of life planning, probably a parents set of that recently or they're seeing the elders and their family died or a friend died, and they think, what a mess. I don't want to create that for myself. And so what can I do right now already to get that going?

You know what I think about end of death finding one. I'm about to get on a plane with my husband and I can help but think over and over in the back of my mind. okay? We have our affairs in order.

great. Like what happens if this plane goes down and we die? And I don't want to think about that.

understandable. Speaking of which, how's your planning going?

Uh, I think it's done with high. We've done some things with with with people, my husband, uh, we've done some things with lawyers and and planning and setting things up. But I have been looked at in three, four years and I probably should .

yeah that be helpful.

How often should .

you look at this yearly? I think so. I love to do around my birthday, and I know that sounds wild, but being able to celebrate another year reminds me that i'm still here. But one day I won't be like I may not see my next one. And so let me take some time to reflect.

I think we need to look at all the Price of things, but also start asking like the tougher questions, like what kind of that do I want to experience? Who do I want to make my decisions for me? If I can't, how do I feel about life support? How do I feel about my life currently?

Who do I need to say I love you too? Who do I need to forgive? Think about IT like big picture.

I love that you do the time you were.

Yeah, touch.

So if you were to, in fact, my bird is coming up. great. So what questions could I ask myself on my birthday to really invite the subject, or the, I guess I should say, reality? Look at this. I'm even sanative zing the way I talk about this to create distance between me and something that is going to happen. I will die. How do I use my death to shape my life? And what questions could I ask myself on my birthday to invite the reality of my death in and help me truly think about how I want to live my life?

There's a lot of ways to go about this. You know, we can spend time on the practical, which I think is an easier entry point for some people thinking about your affair. You know, who do you want to make your decisions for you? What do you think about life support? What do you want them with your body services would like? How would like celebrated? Also your possession ons and dependence? Sell your important information stuff.

But I also suggest that we think about the life that we live so far. If folks are interested, there's a little exercise that I like to do, which is to think of my life as a line, think of my lifespan as a long line, and place myself somewhere on that line, my birthday one end and my death being the other. So I placed myself some place on that line at that current birthday.

How far do you, I think I am? How much further do I have to go? And what do I want to experience in the time that I have remaining? IT allows me to conceptualized my life in terms of a lifespan, and then see visually where else I still have to go.

hopefully. How do you? And forty six, how long do you think you have?

I would like to live another forty, forty five years. I don't want to be like one hundred and something i'm thinking about now.

X, i'm going to turn fifty six and i'd like to be on red. You I I mean, when I pull out the line and I visualize what I want because I get to say that might not be what happens, but I get to say. What I want, I want to be viBrant and active and engaged and connected to my family.

great. So what you just said is you listed also some core values, which is really helpful when we start thinking about how we want to experience the rest of our life. If we have a serious illness or if there is treatment or something coming, you can think about your values. He's got engaged and with your family and all those things that can be helpful when you are starting to think about what is remaining of your time and are you going to spend that?

I love that. How I have did you get into this in the death ork?

yes. I you know i'm so wondering ing that myself I mean, I know some events have that that made IT. So the big pictures sometimes i'm like, now how do we pick this one? But I really don't think that we choose death works. I think death work.

Choose is us. I was just to say.

do you think you pick this? No, not at all. I mean, when I look back, I can see how perfectly set up everything was, so that this is what i'm doing with my time right now.

I am a attorney by trade. I worked at legal ID for about eight years. And while I was doing so, I grew a very, very thick depression. And I say, fac, uh because IT was heavy, was dance but I was incredibly my body was a hello shell. I wasn't living in IT anymore and during that depression I took a medical leave of absence um by my psychiatrist was like, grow you can work anymore and I said, I think you probably right like to go leave of absence and during that leave absence I went to you about where I had to fellow traveller on the bus and her and I talked a lot about life and we talked about about death because yet don't cancer and that's how the ideas around being with mortality really started.

Can you share more about that story of meeting this woman on the bus and how that impacted you?

Yeah, so through all this beautiful serendipity ended up in cuba. And as I was heading to the bus stop to go, get on the bus to go to, sometimes I go on the other side of the island, carm was hit me along the way, and I slight my hands on the hood and thought, don't die on the streets, please, like your parents will .

kill you and what you would .

be done so like yeah right I would be modified also with roots and death but I be modified that this occurred um and I as after the almost car accident happened I was just kind of like shocked back into myself I did what I to do stop I A in line and arted SHE offered to hold the bus for me so that I could get on IT because I was in the wrong line and I was running late. SHE did hold the bus for me in a really interesting way.

And when I got on the bus, we started chatting. SHE told me that he was in cuba to see the top six places in the world you want to see before he died, because he had died in cancer. And IT was daring to me.

I didn't know anybody my age who had died. He was thirty six, I was thirty four, and we started talking a lot about her mortality. I asked her questions that I still don't know where I got the hubris to ask what I asked her about herself on her death, that I asked what meaning her life's work had had up until that point.

And they created a really federal ground for us to get into the thick, thick, thick bits about power living and ultimately hour dying. Uh, during that bus, right? I thought there should be somebody that people can talk to about death because SHE had him in talking about IT, because when he would, her friends and family would tell her to focus on hope and healing instead.

I don't think. But the reality is that he is dying. We are all dying, and we should be talking about that. And the fact that we'd have an opportunity to do so together, this seems to create some value for her.

And I also felt totally in my pocket talking to her about death, like I could ask all the weird, all curious questions I have anyway. And somebody finally answer them. So made IT really a right place to begin talking about morality.

Do you remember the first question you ask about death?

I think I ask what would happen? Well, you would tell me about uterine cancer and cans, you was sick and SHE said, I might die and I said, what? What would happen then? And he said, well, I guess I be dead and IT was the beginning of like a, well, what happens if this is IT? Like, what? What does that mean? What does that mean? So we started talking mouth after our life.

We talked about herself on her death bed. I asked me to look at herself on her death bed and tell me what you said 啊。 And while he did that, I started to think of myself on my own death bed.

And I don't like what I saw. I don't like what I saw, which is where that passage came from. I wanted somebody who was really full of her life, you know, somebody who, like, enjoyed somebody who was present for. And I wasn't.

And that's what you meant when you said, talk of death is starting to bring me back to life.

yeah. I finally felt signs of life in my body again. I finally felt like myself. I felt like a version and myself.

I really liked somebody who was curious and engaged and connected and present, like I was really present for that conversation. You know, I was leaning forward and maintained I contact and wasn't thinking about what a mess i've made of my life. Rather, I was almost hopeful that I could feel myself again. What's .

interesting because if .

you do time .

travel forward, IT creates the space that allows hope and something different to come in to your consciousness. And there, so many of us have this experience in our data day life. I've just gone through the motions. yeah. And IT is true that when you allow yourself to push through the fear in the sadness and truly think about that moment on your death bed, that IT forces you to think about how you want to feel about your life, and ironically, creates an opening to change.

What are some of the things that people say wrong when they are talking to someone? And maybe it's a friend that has a cancer diagnosis, or maybe you find out that somebody's parent is a, you know, got dementia and their hospices called in. What are some of the things not to say? And what can you say?

Let me start with what you can lead with. Oh, great. Which is perhaps that you don't know what say.

You know what say, as a great place to begin. What does that mean? I don't know what's to say that sounds really tough. This is a really big deal. That sounds really difficult for you, but I just I really don't know what to say now that's a great place to begin rather than try to the space with attitudes and you know the things that we think that we're supposed to say, we can just begin with I don't know what to say and ignored dge and validate their experience.

That sounds ds really hard or um how are you feeling? How are you doing with this news? I think if we can keep our focus on the person who is in the experience of IT, then we can avoid getting into some really yuki muddy waters where we're trying to tell them how to feel about their experience.

That's beautiful and that's probably where the problems come. You like always going to be OK and you'll get through IT.

We don't know that they might die from IT.

They gonna drive .

at something. They are die at some point. Disease cyma and dimension IT might be going down. How really fast like saying it'll be OK or you know I know what you're going through. That's another thing we should avoid IT because we don't know what they're experiences like even if we have a similar family situation ourselves. I don't know what it's like to be you experiencing listing right now. And so we can also avoid trying to put ourselves in their shoes or you're trying to, I say, invalidate what they're experiencing by filling IT with what I ve experience, what I would like to experience, what I think the experience should be like.

I love that, that I don't know what to say. That sounds like it's very difficult. How are you doing today?

Great a plus. Oh my god. Thank you. I am very motivated by doing well.

So thank you. I shit. I can do that one. I can do that one. Um in your experiences is a death a what are some of the best ways that you can show up for other people when either they're dying or they're supporting somebody else?

You is it's a similar way to approach, which is you show up, you acknowledge in your validate and you create space to the person to have their experience and you keep asking questions and you just allow them to be and you allow them to guy the conversation because maybe they also don't want to talk about IT, you know maybe they wanted talk about the cda, ian instead and that's solly fine. That's solly fine. Um so it's important that we create space for them to be where they are and to be in their experience.

primarily a lua that's so helpful, especially that visual of creating space because i'm always thinking about what I need to say. But if I can just focus on creating space for them to have their experience, that makes IT a lot easier to do. So thank you.

And I want to take a quick pause so we can hear a word for responsable, but don't go anywhere, because eua has so many more profound takeaway to share. And a little bit later, he is three questions that SHE wants to ask you and you're not gonna na miss IT to stay with us. Somehow it's almost flu season again and IT seems coffee season hasn't ever really left us, which means it's time to get updated on your seasonal vaccines again.

But you're so busy where you find the time wall Greens s makes IT simple with day of appointments and flexible scheduling and nights. And because you can even get multiple vaccines in one trip and knocked out some irons, why you add IT new mascara, check toilet paper done and done, double chocolate ice cream. I mean, hey, you're prioritizing your health so you deserve a sweet treat.

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everyone.

you want to die home with your affairs in order. And then you said, and when my loved ones notice that i've released my last breath, I want them to clap. I want them to clap because I died well, but I died well only because I lived well. Can you talk more about that? I've never heard anyone say I want you to clap.

I want them to clap. I want them to clap at how authentically I live my life. I want them to say, yes, he did her.

I want them to clap an honor of a life that I love and the Grace with which I let you go. I want them to have been proud of me. You know, even at my death, I still want the people that I care about to think you did IT.

I wanted to feel the way I filled out my life and that I lived by example. I want them to think that I was generous and present, and I cared. I did my best, that I was here for the time that I was here.

I just love the visual of every clapping is so cool IT is because I didn't have the context IT sounds like you know, your crankie. Grandmother who you could not stand oh my god, thank god .

she's oh baby baby.

But even in that instance, your clappy, because they were a fighter. But I love the knowledge ment of the spirit. What do you think happens after we died?

Yes, I hear so many theories that i'm constantly coupling IT together myself. One of things that I really love is when somebody present something that i'm just really struggling to understand and they give me a little more context. Matter one with you.

please. okay.

So there's a kind of not that long ago who at the eleven hour decided that you need to be baptized, ed, that he was not sure about anything that happened, but he felt that he need to go back to the religion of her childhood because that may get her into have an or awareness else after he died.

And so I asked what had been going on, like why SHE got to that point sh'd been having these really incredible dreams um right before he died, when he was in her unconditional state. And SHE see a great big eye in the sky. When SHE said that I thought you meant that you know the capital eye in the nondum isc perspective, like the I that exists within us all but SHE meant an actual like .

eyeball and this guy really yeah .

I scary like watching us all the time. I got very comfortable um and as we talk through that he said yeah I ball that he sees in the sky that sees all and also that will go back to so we can watch all and SHE thinks of that is heaven and so he wants to get backed eyes to go to heaven to that eye in the sky and .

is that a piece that you couple together that helps you think about what you believe about what happened?

I like the idea of an ee, but I like the idea of the letter. I capital.

Yeah, I ball .

scares me. And so what if .

you cobbled together in terms of how you think about what happens?

Well, we have couple together is this is tRicky because it's changing all the time. And also, the more I talk about that, the less IT makes space for my clients to have whatever experience that they may be having. I feel the space was what I think, how I feel IT makes the harder forever people to show with me what they think or feel. Because first, while everybody thinks i'm .

right because of the world like to hear, now I really, one here.

think i'm right. We kind of the work I do, you know, my hope is we cannot return to all that ever was, and all that ever will be in place of absolute, perfect and profound illness and perfection and peace and love, the transcendent. This space from before we were born, where I have no conscious memory, of which I think was also perfect place, because I made a perfect human along the way, and my perfect death will hopefully leads me back to that real duced perfect place. I think.

I think, I believe something very similar. Yeah, yeah. I think a lot about the fact that when you at the moment of creation, and you're in your mother's, whom you have no consciousness about the world, that you're about to be more n into, and I feel that death is the exact same sort of birth that there is an entire world. And I have no consciousness of what I might be. I know what I hope IT might be, but I just trust that as the transition happens, that IT is another form of birthing yourself from one world and one state of consciousness to another.

Lovely death is the birth into something new, and every birth is also a death. Upon my birth, I died from the whom I changed the way I breathe. I changed probably how I think I changed experience, the world, my experience, I died from that experience into this.

So i'll likely be dying from this into something else. And what I don't know, I hope that feels like riding a glitter way for all of eternity, where I just see Sparkles. And I am, in that perfect place, reconnected with everything that .

ever was a lot there, right on Sparkle wave. I have never been present when somebody died. Can you walk us through kind of what happens in those moments?

sure. So dying itself doesn't happen linearly when people are dying from disease. However, IT generally ens shut down the system, the tissues and such, so goes out twt like that.

So that looks different for every person. But for the most part, what I experience more often than not is that the person starts to recede in the days before death. You can tell that there is a distance that's happening.

If they have a death rally, it'll probably happen right before that time. And the death rally is, I think, when the last little bit of lifetime is just all burned off, all the energies use up. And so if the rally has occurred, there is a still misses starts to happen that you can tell the person they received.

Um they likely fall asleep and stay asleep for a while and the breathing changes, the skin color changes, breathing this kind of jack. Um you can tell that the body is kind of taken over. IT is doing what he needs to do to die.

And I trust everybody's make capacity to know how to die. And so it's doing what I must do. And at some point, when the space between the breath gets very long, you can tell that there is a separation that occurring, and then there is a stillest. The illness comes when the breath stopped.

And do you, in your work, feel that separation and you feel an accident or spirit of a person living? Or I can tell that .

something has occurred because the room seems to get very full, like IT feels like there is a blank ket in the space, but like a warm cloth blanket. You know, there is a, if you've been in this space, if you know what i'm talking about, like after the breath is complete in the room is still very sick. The clapping would help. The clapping would break IT out.

Wow, thank you for sharing. How do you bring this conversation up with your parents? There are so many people listening around the world who have parents are aging. And I personally kind of tap dance around IT all then say, hey, you know, we should probably have the conversation. And my mom will say something like, yeah we should and show remark about how there is so much stuff in this house like i'm not even going to do anything with that you are in your brother are going to have to clear IT out and so it's more about the surface level stuff. But do you have advice for the best way to set up a conversation with your parents so that you can talk about this?

I love that your mom is bringing IT up, yeah, and she's bringing IT up that way. I think that the process is a great way into the deeper emotional sport, psychological stuff that happens. great. Yeah because I he's talking about IT like I won't be here so I this thing anymore, he can explain to what the meaning behind certain objects where that meaning has her look back on her life. I got this one thousand nine hundred and sixty seven, and when we were kids and we were doing this, you know what I mean so it's a way into like, the deeper emotional stuff.

Thank you for saying that. Yeah, because I maybe it's my discomfort, but every time I go home to michigan and where I grew up and we start going through stuff and she's like, so focused on what you want, what do you want? Let's get the stuff out here and she's only seventy something I mean, he is like full of like go you know like let's go. She's got a lot of life in her, thank god. Um but I always was thinking this is a deflection yeah and that's not you're saying actually no, this is fantastic.

She's talking about IT. I'm so glad to hear she's talking about IT. It's an introduce you know, to talk about the things are the practical things. And often, as I was saying, IT IT shows what else is under the surface. You know, IT may be through an object.

But when talking to people about what they want with their body after they die, i'll hear people say things like, I can think of my body burning when talking about cremation, or I can think of myself burning. That suggests to me that they think of himself in their body as one, or they don't, because they said my body burning. So that's and opening into the deep spiritual conversation, it's all in front of us. We can tell how people think about their death based on how they talk and certainly when they are talking about their stuff. That's another way to thank you, mom.

Yeah, thanks, mom. In fact, you don't i'm going to do, while we take a quick pause in your word for our amazing sponsors, i'm gonna send this episode to my mom because I think it'll Spark and even deeper and cooler and awesome weight to talk about this important topic and want you do the same. Sure this with someone that you love and don't go anywhere because a luan I will be waiting for you after short break.

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And you know, as we were listening to response or I couldn't help but think about a moment that I had with my mom just a few weeks ago when I was back in michigan, we were down in the basement. We're flipping through a bunch of framed things that used to hang on the wall that have now been replaced. And like, oh, i'd love, I think, oh, those are drawings for my kids.

Like, will take that. Like, I love this. Is there in that moment where you're engaging in the stuff? Is there a way to just crack the door open a little bit more, to go a little deeper .

into the emotional sta? Well, one way of, if you are noticing that he likes particular objects, so there's something that he likes, maybe you can ask if this is a way that you like to be remembered. When I see a spoon, will this help me think of you? And you maybe say, yes, so I don't care whatever else, but maybe you'll say, well, I really like butterflies so I feel like your own Helen visits me through the butterflies or something to start that part of the conversation also.

she's been very funny about because I know exactly what he wants to happen. Yeah, she's like meltdown on my joy. great.

And then get an earn and let's put the jewelry all over the earn. Cream ate me. And then that earn can rotate between you and your brother's house. And when your father dies, he goes in there too. Like, okay.

thanks em. Okay, good to me. Plus too, wow.

she's going to be really heavy about that. And meanwhile, I feel like a jerk because i've been what you're gone. We have been talked about the end of lifecare. We haven't talked about where you're on. We haven't talked about whether or not you're and stay in this house or whether not we're going to look for some when what you're saying is that those conversations actually are an open door and they represent somebody processing.

This reality is starting to happen. You know, people often say people don't want to talk about death or older folks don't want to talk about death. And I think that they do.

I think we're uncomfortable with IT. And so when we hear the opportunity, we is not happening or we make IT mean something else. There is more quality again or mom is starting to engage you with her end of life because they are thinking about IT.

Okay, I mean, older I get them. I think about my mortality because I feel in my neck apps. And so like eighty something, you're definitely thinking about IT. More, more your friends are dying. You're seeing people that you grow up with die .

on T V like it's true ah I think about my dad who just turned eighty and he's had three very close friends die very suddenly, including his best friend. He had A A surgery and on his I like louk ma go wrong and so he's got now floors in there and he can't quite see and I know that makes him feel like frail and he just had back surgery because of a pick ball injury.

And so i've been thinking a lot about him and he's very stoic and doesn't talk a lot about that kind of stuff the way my mom is very out there. Get the earn. Melt the jewelry.

Let's go get this crap out of this house. I'm not cleaned in this house. This is on you and your brother.

Just glaser.

how do I engage my father?

You are, says, really used all things. The fact that his friends are dying. That's a great place to begin.

What's this grif? Like, what happened when they died? Did somebody have an accident? Was her surgery? What happened medically? Like using the best of people in their lives is a great place to begin just to ask them how they're feeling or what their thoughts are around IT. You can also if that's not happening in your family, you can also talk about celebrities or people that are happening in popular culture, people that are dying there as another entry way in, did you like what happened? Did you not like I got to be with a group of black elders around the time a retha Frankland died. And when I tell you all the end of life plans were done by the time that we like because I was like, I can't believe they had all these health its and I would never want a glass cough and nobody Better put shoes on me when I you know what I mean is a great way to start the conversation is available.

Well, you know, it's true. We all go weddings yeah and let's be honest, we enjoy ourselves and then either on the way home or the next morning, we like pick and a part. I do this. I won't do this. What did they do that 叭叭， 叭叭， 叭叭， 叭叭， 叭叭。 Never even thought about funerals being a point of understanding what people like, what they don't like, what they want, what they don't want, what they are comfortable with, what they don't but they are not like get no open clash for me, absolutely not cremation all the way.

You don't give you that all oh my god.

Now that absolutely not yeah. And there is a thing that happened at my father in lost funeral that I thought was the coolest thing in the world that i'd ever seen. I absolutely want this to happen.

Um he was cremated and my mother in law, I don't know, he went to like ebay or whatever. SHE bought all of these tiny little member, the film canisters that were metal that you would kind of score apart. SHE got like a hundred of them.

And I just have this image of her spooning his ashes into all these canisters. And at his end of life celebration, SHE came out and had them in this huge salad ball. And SHE invited anyone who wanted to have a piece of can to come up and take a canisters.

But there was one requirement, you had to spread his ashes somewhere or keep him in a certain place. And when you did, IT SHE requested that you write her a letter and send a photo of the place where he is. And SHE now has this extraordinary photo album of him all over the world.

We, i've a friend that snuck onto the U. S. Open golf course the last night of the turn ament and poured him into like the tenth hole. And then he was sealed up. Please, overseas, he's been on bike trips. He, you know, my husband, every time he writes his bike, he puts his little, he takes his canister of his father and toxic underneath, and is just a beautiful way to see what he meant to other people. And that's .

what I want. That think incredible .

and that cool.

Have you written IT down? Now we know that what you are, yes, that is so great.

What what? I know how you want to die, but what do you want to have happen after?

I want a Green barrier, I want a natural barrier.

meaning they put you somewhere and let you on fire. Is that what feel .

a beautiful .

natural thing to do?

This is also a very beautiful natural thing. I want to be in a hot pink in orange or silk, stroud, no more than three and a half, maybe four feet underground, so that the natural decomposition can happen. The box can get to me the elements. Go away. Let's use that.

Let s oh, my gosh, and I love that you're sharing this and that we're going to details. And as you're listening, think about what you want. Yes, allow yourself to truly reflect on this.

I feel like my daughters popped into this world and theyve been planned in their weddings over since. Yes, and it's interesting to think about your own death and celebration of your life and how you want IT to feel as something that can be as amazing as waiting even more so. Why even .

more so well, wedding to you? You know, I wish that we focus more on the marriage than on the big day itself. I think funerals to me are a nice, big, beautiful period on that.

Sounds that really would be nice if a, if a show to the person was, if we really showed who the person was, you know, and people have a chance to be together in their grief around the end of this person life. I ask all the students that comes with the going with Grace and of life training program, what kind of deficit would like, what kind of funeral they like, or about their legacy eeta. Those just one student years ago who got stuck in the question about who her body belongs to and who her life belongs to.

I thought I was so rich. Yeah, because when we were talking about who her body belongs to, god thinking, got me thinking about what happens to this body after I die. You know, in this story that is shared about is the income that his body now belongs to all these people.

And they are now spreading IT everywhere. They're doing what they want with IT. And so we can use our value system like try to figure out what do I actually, what do I care about? And you see, I care about eating enough cakes that the box can be happy after I die. I'm trying to back about the earth. I'm trying to help the earth well.

I think some people do that when they think about whether or not they want to be an organ donor but there's a even deeper sure way to think about who you are yeah and how that could express through your death .

that's what that does for us every single time about my work, about my relationships, about my love, about I care about my body, certain ly, what I want to have happened to IT after I die, how I planned for IT. Best of my death does every single time if we let IT. But most of us are way too scared to even engage in the conversation.

And your experience, what are the biggest regrets that people have on their death bed?

They mostly round how they spent at a time, how they loved about being authentic. I wish i'd lived a life for me, not for my parents or a society, or my partner or my kids, but what was most authentic for me. People also often regret how they spend their time, you know, spending more of IT at the office, or not playing fake ball, or not doing the things they really wanted do with their time.

I also find that people regret how they showed up for the people that they loved, or did or didn't IT show up for the people that they left, probably more far more how they didn't show up. Not saying that I love you and thank you. Please forgive me as the big one.

That's something that I think a lot about, that it's only when it's over that some people find the ability to forgive or to ask for forgiveness. And for somebody that's listening to us right now, could you speak directly to them about what's available today based on the reality of death and what to do today in order to not die with regrets?

There are three big questions that I suggest people ask themselves when thinking about, about their lives and their relationship and their death, which is, who did I love? How did I love and was I loved? 嗯， now these questions, I speak of them in the past times because I am thinking about somebody who's on their death bed.

But those questions are available for us right now and should be available to us right now. I don't say should very often, but this is one where is wildly, wildly important for us to think about how we relate to one another and what still what's still sticky between us, the two. Often I see people at the death that where they're wishing for that you know magic moment where that person that they've been loving from a far because they did something or the other person did something, they're waiting for that to be reconcile just and can I tell you a story?

Yes, please, was a kind of few years ago who was in her ladies h, she's a grandma, and her one of her grandkids was there. She's had three biological children, nine grandchildren, and one was there. This one grandchild had been busting her.

But to make so much money to put grandma in one of these homes where there was maybe like, six people in a room, you know what I mean, IT was not fancy your top of the line, but this kid had worked really hard for IT. Turns out grama was a terrible parent, her kids, and want to be there. They'd made their peace.

But gram and sister that he did not want to die until those kids came to say, goodyer to her. I talked to all those kids, and they were all done. They'd made their peace with her dying.

We ekk out a letter. And when I say eat, I mean, he was practically non verb at this time. But there are things that you still want to say.

So we tried really hard to get all these things out. Some of them were asking for forgiveness, but also some of them were Angel. I did what I need to do and how I need to do, and new kids should be grateful.

But he moved into act of dying a very short while later. I don't know what happened with those letters. I don't know if those kids got them.

I don't know what they thought of them, but I know that they did what they need to do for themselves. Sometimes we don't have to forgive just because somebody is dying. We need to speak the truth about how we feel about people while they're living. And if grandma maybe had tried that earlier, they may have been in a different position when he was time. Wow.

I have a very good friend who has been a strange for her parents for a number of years, and her father just died.

How you feeling?

I don't know how she's feeling today, but I can only imagine that her feelings are all over the place and mourning someone that you have been a strange from for a long time must just IT doesn't IT doesn't prevent you for IT like you still grieve somebody even if you haven't seen them for a long time, even if you ended on bad terms and so I don't know how she's doing today, but as soon as I heard the news, I told her that if you want to go to the funeral, I will get on a plane with you.

I will go if you do not want to a go to the funeral, that is OK too. I I will come and support you if you want somebody to be there. And SHE thanked me and so that you have no idea how much that means.

And I just felt like I wanted to do something. And so I decided to send her just a beautiful arrangement of flowers from my husband and I. And I thought and thought and thought and thought and thought about what to put on the card. And so I put this, never forget, you cut ties with your father, not because you didn't love him, but because you love yourself enough to know you deserve to be treated Better.

Did you get another plus credible? That's so good. That's so good. What i'm hearing from that is the reinforcement of the choice that he made.

And what I think is wildly important is that we remember, just because somebody y's dying doesn't mean we then have to undo all the things that doesn't make them a great person anymore. Does that make them a great person for us anymore? I think it's important that we tell the truth about who people are when they were living and after they die, they tell the truth.

We tell the truth about their impact on us. IT doesn't change because they died. And when we make people sense after they died IT marginalizes. That distance franchise for those people that didn't experience them like that yeah you know yeah that people still have to grieve complicated relationships. They still have to grieve when they haven't seen their parent in decades because they chose to step away. And sometimes me healing looks like that IT doesn't look like and may be speaking, the forgiveness that looks like making your choice and recommend selling IT within ourselves yeah.

It's a lot.

It's big.

What advice to have for all of us as we experience grief? F like, how do you think about the process grieving, which I don't think ever leaves?

No, he doesn't leave IT just changes form. You know, I think about my brother and love still get motion thinking and talking about him. And it's been eleven years, december.

Can you tell us about Peter?

Oh, I would love to Peter with my older sisters husband, bosnia, say john as her husband. And I love fear. He was the only big brother I had, had been everyone, and I was his Younger siblings because he was the Youngest of seven and didn't have anybody who could exercise the million over until I came around.

Peter. Peter was quicker ious. He was silly and really, really smart and probably justice suborn and software as I am, which for a lot of budding heads because he was really conservative of nature and I am not. And so we just go to war over the death penalty and vegetarian m and veganism and just anything. Um we've got along really, really well despite our chAllenges, and I got to support him in his death.

Did he know was coming or was at an accident .

he knew was coming? He wasn't long. He got diagnosed with berkson former in june, and by october, they said they couldn't treat him anymore.

So IT was fast, but IT was a there was some awareness that was coming, even though the doctors never, they never said he was dying. They said they couldn't treat him anymore. Oh, and that for somebody who was wishing, hoping, with all hope that he would live, I did not hear that he was dying.

I heard that they weren't going to treat him. My brain maybe, maybe made jump. He was forty three.

You write about his death in your beautiful book briefly. Perfectly human. Would you mind reading us that passage on is on page fifty three?

嗯， how do my best OK, as I done countless times before, I took my position that Peters feet, which i'd regularly masked with moist, rich solution to prevent them from cracking. Today they were called in yellowing due to judas has since learned that in some faith traditions that saw this engages from the feet first to leave through the head. I held them quietly and carefully, thanking him for walking here in, walking into my life in which came well for wherever he was walking to next. Shortly before four I M, four days before his forty fourth birthday, my brother in love, Peter and john breathe his last.

I felt, and right there in the hospital with you.

every single time, every single time. The brief doesn't go anywhere. I just learn how to live with IT. You know, I learned, I think I learned how my grief wants to express gratefully.

I get to talk about Peter all the time because of my work, because I learned how to do less. R Peter, 嗯， many people don't get that chance. You know, people stop asking about their person after a while, but I still get to talk about Peter.

I still get to remember him, and he feels very present for me, even though I haven't heard his voice in almost seven years. And you know, he hasn't seen my knees as a teenager. He hasn't seen me finally get IT together.

I think IT be .

pretty proud. I hope so. I hope so.

What do you want the person listening to know about Peter and how he lived his life and how IT impacted you?

IT sounds wild to say, because when I look at IT at a distance, kind of pinches and way. But Peter, is that this show as a gift to me, of course, I want him to live. And with the reality that he died, is ultimately created a lot of opportunity for me.

And that's something that we don't think of. You mean bright side, that's not what i'm doing, but rather what was created from this death, which was for me a real purpose. Like I learned how to do that.

I got really agree about how society does death. I want to do something about IT. I created a company to do that.

I teach people how to be death. do. As i'm still angry about how he died, I still wish that he got Better.

But that is now turned into fuel to support other people. Grief allows the new version of ourselves to emerge. IT allows whatever version is being held and boxed in to come to late IT allows the seeing itself to grow.

Because when it's all cracked open, who wants to come out? And all bets were off. I didn't even wear pants for a while.

I was like, forget IT, I don't have to. I'm grieving and sad. Everybody just going have to deal.

And what I saw was me that was really on purpose, who was really on fire, who was clear about what you wants to create in the world. And I used my grief to support me in doing IT. That grief became IT, became away through, and still is away through.

Grief can be useful. It's hard. But I can be useful is .

talk really are about had all death is also a birth. And that sounds like Peters's death was birth for you. A A new version of you was born. In that moment.

I met myself in my grief. I think we often do. We were willing, you know, I saw really who I was and what I wanted.

and how I showed up .

in the world. What did you see? I saw fire. I saw anger. My grief expressed a lot through anger, which is something that I typically had not allowed myself to feel much.

You know, I think lot women are socialized to the saturday first before anger. I also, as a black woman in america, being angry as something, as a trope. And so I did not often allow myself anger.

I just will defer to sadness. But I was pace. I was hot about the medical care system, but how we care for our dying, about our lack of support for IT.

And I wanted to fix IT now anger can move mountains in if we'll let IT. You know, i'm sitting here right now because I got really pissed. Feel so much sorry you're using IT .

to make incredible change. Thank you. And those feelings value yeah well.

that's the thing about grief too. I think when we're allowing ourselves to just be the experience of see how nuance IT is and that we have a lot of emotion and all of them are fine, they're all totally OK know. Brief allows us finally to express all the things that perhaps we keep repressed because we are too busy trying to pay the bills and do our taxes. A brief allows us to be in a deep emotional space.

You know, else I love that you touched done is the fact that when somebody dies, it's almost as if we annoying them were saying, hood, come on and you read these these ology enough the eulogies, you read these things that people put the paper and you're thinking, did this person also walk on water? You like what what and you see a funeral, sort of that quiet memorial of, you know, now we're just time about all the good stuff, and there's no acknowledged that there are real difficulties in the relationship that you may have had with this person is IT important to kind of acknowledge that for yourself. So that, you know, is part of the process of grieving, like grieving, even who that person wasn't for you.

Absolutely, it's a necessary component of grieving, is being honest with ourselves about the nature of the relationship. What we got from IT thinks that still stuck and robed us because those don't change just because the person died. Not everybody lit up a room when they walked in, but virtually every arbitrary, he says, SHE LED up the room, maybe SHE was making hung out on the corner.

That would be fine too. That's how her human hood was expressed. And people experiences through that way.

And we don't give them an opportunity to be with their grief. If we don't tell the truth about somebody, we need to tell the truth. I want people to tell the whole truth about who I am. I can also be a massive pain, the ass.

What does IT mean to leave a legacy? And how do you advise people to think about creating yours, or what you want yours to be?

Our legacy is often, sometimes rooted in who we are. I think people often mistake legacy with the money or are accomplishments, but rather is more about who you are as you accomplish of the things. I notice that at funerals, people do talk a little bit about, you know, how many lives the person changed.

But they also talk about the fact that they changed life because they were kind, they are generous or thoughtfulness. Um legacy is aren't optional, you know we're all living on every single day. Even people that we think of as those that maybe don't hold a big position in society are still living a huge like to say I tell you now there a quick story.

absolutely.

There was a uh, human that came to me for some support because you want to plan, if you neural, for somebody who did not have a much of a family, at least that he knew he was unhoused. He lived on the corner where he got a coffee every morning on the way to work, and so SHE would talk to him sometimes and got to know a little bit over the years.

One day, he noticed that he wasn't there anymore and searched up and down for him and found out that he had died and he wanted to honor his life. What happened was we planned what we thought was going to a small ceremony, and about four hundred people showed up because of the impact that he had had on her life, because of how he talks about him, because of the games he dropped on her, because he was a touch point for her every single day in her gree anger. That was his legacy.

Somebody who otherwise folks would just disregard, you know, pretend that their life had no meaning or purpose. He touched that many people through her. That's a legacy.

Yes, IT is A U. A. What are your party words?

In my life, in this .

conversation, in your life, what are the last word you want to say?

I hope the last words I say, thank you. I hope they are. Thank you. Because this life is an other gift.

I am so grateful that I get to lucky in the eye and feel connected at just by vir, two of my site, but I get to feel joy and cold and crunchy french fries, and also grateful that I get to feel anger and grief. I'm grateful that I get to live in my purpose and teach death, do las and spread the message. As far as I will go, i'm grateful for cake.

I'm grateful for exercise. I'm grateful for feeling my hearty and grateful for these air that I breathe. I am grateful for my life.

I want my last words to be, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you to all the beings that give me with me to you, to everybody that I met the day to the folk settle, fly the plane. Just thank you. 对。

Will i'll be clap and that for sure I .

have got the memo and .

i'll see you on that glitter wave.

I I believe so.

gratitude you. You are a remarkable human being. I am so deeply moved and change by conversation today. I'm glad to see that. And I also want to just take a moment and thank you for being here with us, for staying all the way until the end.

And in case someone else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you, I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a Better life. And what an extraordinary gift to use your death as a way to help you make the most of the time that you have left, so that when you are on your death bed, you are saying, thank you, thank you. Thank you for this life to, i'll be waiting for you in the next episode.

Wow is so good.

so I would not fake that. I think i'm just doing, you know, the things that come up for me.

Oh, my god. give. Thank you. great. Well, I know. Who am I?

Oh, my god, I would feel so same for you. great. I yes, I will. I feel so.

Oh, I have like a little thing where we're Tracy can talk to me in this thing next year. okay? So we have an ipad sitting up there that reflects just to that. If he has to be like.

you know, I stay .

right here.

You're doing great. Oh.

I just, well.

i'll take you, take you. Thank you. Like anything showed my, yeah, you woke up today. I did wake up today.

Oh, and one more thing I know, this is not a blue per. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers right? And what I need to read you.

This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a license therapies, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist or other qualified professional. Got IT good. I'll see in .

the next episode stitch.

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