Episode 626: James P. Watson: The Bluebeard Killer
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Hey weirdos, it's Ash. Before we dive into today's twisted tale, let me tell you about the spooky perks of Wondery+. It's like having a skeleton key that unlocks ad-free listening and early access to new episodes. So don't wait, try Wondery Plus today. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast.

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Wait, guys, serious question. Did you get your invite to our next Weirdos Audio book club? No? Oh my god, I'm so sorry. Well, consider yourself invited. This time, you guys, we are covering the audible title Bluebeard, a suspenseful radio-style dramatization of true-life events leading to the capture of infamous, the infamous Bluebeard Watson, who conned and killed countless women in the early 1900s.

Join us and a special guest on Friday the 13th of December while we talk about this title. Join the conversation on Instagram, Friday, December 13th, Weirdos Audiobook Club. Cute way of talking, not the baddest ideas. Does he actually say the baddest ideas? I don't know that song. You don't know that song? No. Isn't it old? Yeah, it is. I love how you're like, you know all old songs. Isn't it old like you?

Isn't it old? You must know it. Hold on. You've got a cute one. You know what? I'm not good. You've seen it before. You'll sing a song and I'll be like, I don't know what that song is. And then I'll listen to it and I'm like, oh, I know this song. You absolutely. I'm just not good at like catching it when someone else sings it. It's the one that's like, you like dancing. I'm going to dance the night away. You make me feel like dancing. Ma and Papa definitely played this song. Please hold. Make me feel like.

Oh, I think I have heard this. I don't think it played often in our house, though. This does not hit a nostalgia button at all for me. I love that song. Like, I think maybe I've heard that like once. Wow. You have to say, hey, weirdos. Oh, yeah. Hey, weirdos. I'm Ash. And this is Morbin. And you make us feel like dancing. I don't know why I thought he said you have the baddest ideas when he says you got the better of me. Your interpretations of lyrics are...

Thank you. It's a specialty of mine. The pecan pie. Oh, it's, they're so, and the ice queen. Oh, that's one of my best. We've told them that one. Have we told them the, is that Empire of the Sun? Yes. It's not walking on a dream, is it? Yeah, it is. Is it? Yeah. Now I have you got me feeling like dancing in my head, so I can't think of my version. Hold on. When he says, is it real now when two people become one, I say, is it great?

Grandma, is she making pecan pie? And then I say, can I have some? Can I have some pecan pie? And if you listen to it, you can hear the grandma a little bit. Yeah.

It trails off a little. I think that the pecan pie was like a joke that I added. It just felt right. Yeah. At the moment. Yeah. That was for the bet. That was for the plot. For the plot. Okay. For the plot. And that's lyrics with Ashkel. Thanks for tuning in, folks. I love it. Thanks. How are you? You got the baddest ideas.

When you were singing that, I was like, what? Because you were like, it's old. I was like, I feel like that wouldn't be what they would say. No, when I was singing that, I also was like, that's definitely not it. But it just felt good. You commit. And like baddest now is good. Like you're the baddest bitch. You got the baddest ideas. And it's kind of like, oh, you got the baddest ideas, girl. Yeah.

You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Oh my god, you crazy girl. Oh, here we are. I put a lot of coffee creamer in my coffee today. She did. She's on a different level. I'm in like Baja Blast territory. Excuse me, Baja Blast territory. It's

I become unhinged. And we love it. Thank you. We've got an unhinged case that we're going to talk about. Don't we? Because we're going to be covering James P. Watson, the blue beard killer. Oh, and then we're going to be following this up with the Weirdos Audio Book Club, honey. Hi-ya! So we're covering the case, and then we're going to read the title, and we're going to discuss it with a special guest. A special guest. We're not announcing yet, but I think you know him, and I think you'll love him.

And we do too. And of course we do too. Of course. He's stuck with us forever. It's true. I think he knows that. Yeah. Yeah. He said he's happy being stuck with us forever. So who do you think it is? It's not John or Drew, but they're also stuck with us forever. So this story is very complex. Yeah. There are many names, quite like the kind of like the one that you were doing. Yeah. The murder of Carol Thompson. Yeah. That would, that had a lot of names. Very complex. So many criminals. So many criminals.

See, and this is just one criminal who goes by many names. Oh, we have another alias. Yeah, so many aliases. I love them. So many. An alias I? An alias I. Do they become alias I? This is a wild one. So we're going to start at a place and then I'm going to take you to the beginning.

When Catherine Wambacher suspected her husband, Walter Andrew, of having an affair in the spring of 1920, she hired a private detective. She was on her shit. She was like, I'm not letting this just go. Queen. And also back in 1920? In 1920, she hired a private detective to follow him on one of his many out-of-town trips that he would take. Oh, please. And they had only been married for a short period of time, and he had been on many out-of-town trips. So she was like, something's weird here. Yeah.

But rather than follow Walter out of town like the private detective thought he would be doing, he tracked the man less than a mile away from his home with Catherine. What? In Hollywood, where he discovered that Walter had indeed been carrying on a relationship with another woman. He was having an affair. But that was the least of Catherine's issues here. Oh, no. In fact, his real name was James Watson-

And that was not the only name he was known by. Uh-oh. So let's go back to the beginning. Who the fuck is James Watson? Because what are you doing, sir? Yeah. Is what I say. Yeah. Less than a mile away from your home? That's crazy. And all that time she thought he was like going here and there and everywhere. Out of town. Less than a mile away. But he was going out of town sometimes because that was not the only thing he was doing. Oh.

I'm so scared to know what he was doing. As you should be. In the interviews he gave just after his arrest, because he would be arrested later, Watson claimed to have very little memory of his early life. That tended to be his go-to thing. When he didn't want to talk about something, he'd go, you know, it's crazy. I just don't remember.

He pled the fifth a lot. Good. He would go so far as to tell a reporter that he'd grown up in an orphanage and couldn't remember which state he resided in. Okay. He only knew that it was in the south.

Now, when asked what he knew of his parents, he again claimed he really didn't have any memory of either his mother or his father. But he did have vague memories, apparently, of both parents appearing at one point or another to claim him at the orphanage. He said in an interview, it appears that a man came and they said they must hide me for they didn't want him to have me. And I think I heard someone say he was my father. It seems to me they put me under the bed or in the closet just before he came and I stayed there until he went away.

And do we think this is true? Survey says that's a lie. Okay. So, yeah. No one

No one really knows why Watson told these stories at this time, especially. Yeah. They were basically all lies. Like, he just kind of bullshitted his whole life. I guess it makes his life sound more interesting. Yeah, he's very... He's H.H. Holmes-esque. Ah, I see. He's got that vibe. It had that vibe. Yeah, where he lies a lot, he embellishes a lot, he goes by many aliases to get away with different things. All very fantastical. Lots of marriages happening here. But...

He would also claim that he couldn't remember details of something when, one, he wanted to get away with something or just be a dick. But he also, they found that he would do this when the reality of the situation was too painful. So he did have some trauma. Yeah, I was going to say that's definitely a trauma response. Yeah.

And this would make sense for him because, again, his early life was definitely not great. There was a lot of abuse, a lot of neglect. He did not grow up in a loving home. Yeah, you feel bad for the kid version of him. Now, James Watson was not born James Watson. Had a feeling. He was born Charles Gillum in Carroll County. That's a great name. Why change it? Charles Gillum. I love the name Charles. He was born in Carroll County, Arkansas on July 3rd, 1871.

His father was a dick and abandoned the family when Watson was just an infant, just took off. Great. And his mother was also a dick. She was super volatile and would honestly direct all her rage and anger at her only son. Awesome. Yeah. When James was still very young, his mom remarried and changed his first and last names. Ha ha.

Yeah. Relatable. Yeah. Rechristening him as Joseph Holden. Oh, okay. Yeah. So she... Maybe to have a more holy name? I guess. I'm not really sure. I think just...

shenanigans on her part. Yeah, moms that change their kids' names are weird. Yeah, it's a little strange. Now, at the time of his mother's remarriage, his stepfather already had several children of his own, and neither parent made any effort to integrate James into that new family. That's really sad. He was just kind of kicked to the side. Yeah.

So his mom's a complete piece of shit, and his new stepfather was also a complete piece of shit. Yeah, fuck him. Yeah, they just didn't do it. Instead, they just kind of used him as a scapegoat for whatever went wrong and would just kind of like...

torment and abuse him his entire childhood. Why have children? So those two are fucking assholes. When he was just 12 years old, he left home for good. Wow. Just took off. Was like, I'm good with this. The shit he must have seen and experienced by 12. Yeah. To leave permanently. Yeah. He left home for good. He drifted around the southern United States taking jobs wherever he could find them. In his version of events, and remember you have to

take all what he's saying as a grain of salt because he's a liar, a true, true liar. Right. But, I mean, I guess it wouldn't really serve him too much to lie about this part, but who knows? You never know, yeah. In his version of events, he was adopted and his new family traveled around the South working as farm laborers. According to Watson, in his mid-teens, he spent a long period in Kansas working on a farm with a man who served as the area's blacksmiths.

He told a reporter for the Los Angeles Times, he used to make me work on the farm. If I didn't do my work, I didn't eat. And then he said the blacksmith was physically abusive and would often hit and whip him for things he didn't realize he'd even done wrong. Jesus. Yeah. What is wrong with all these adults? Truly. According to Watson, he ran away from the blacksmith's farm for about a year, and then he changed his name again to Dan Bolton.

Okay. From this point, he continued traveling through the South as kind of just like working as a laborer, whatever he could do. Eventually, he made his way up to Canada, and he settled in a place that I didn't know existed, and I love the name of it, Moose Jaw Saskatoon. Hell yeah. Moose Jaw Saskatoon? Moose Jaw Saskatoon.

Oh, hey, where are you from? I come from Moose Jaw Saskatoon. I come from Moose Jaw Saskatoon. It has a very nice mouth feel when you say it. It's the Saskatoon of it all. Yeah, it's very smooth. Because you do the s and then the k and then the t and then the oon. I like the Saskatoon. Yeah. And Moose Jaw is just great.

I feel like, you know how people like call their animals crazy things? I could see you calling your dog Saskatoon. Oh, hell yeah. Come here, you little Saskatoon. I love it. That was, Bubba was Goobanation Station. Oh, yeah. For a long time. She was many, many things. But Goobanation Station was a big one. Goobanation Station. I just call my cat sexy, man. And Drew's like, that's weird. He's like.

And I'm like, whatever. So here he goes. He settles in Moose Jaw, Saskatoon in 1912. And he changed his name again. That's when he changed it to James Watson. Okay. Now, in the year that followed, he found work at a mill in Calgary. And then from there, he traveled to Vancouver. He went into business for himself and operated a collection agency. You're in a place of Canada lately. I am in a place of Canada lately. I get it.

It's fun. I mean, Canada. Canada, am I right? No, in 1913, Watson met and married Catherine Cruz in Nelson, which is a small city in the mountains of southern British Columbia.

There's not a lot known about Catherine, but through like some articles and publications, they list her as either his first or his fourth wife. Oh, big difference there. Yeah. And as you'll see, there's countless. So it's really hard to keep it track. In a letter to a friend, Catherine wrote, James certainly knew about how to get married quickly. We were married without any of our friends knowing about anything about it. My parents did not know of it until sometime afterwards. Oh, that's really sad.

And when she says James certainly knew how to get married quickly, that's an understatement. Oh, yeah. Now, as a collection agent, Watson would have to spend a lot of time traveling, you know, to collect on debts, do all that kind of stuff. Yeah. So on his frequent trips away from home, he was doing something that didn't seem suspicious to Catherine at the time. Yeah. Like that checked. He travels for work. Yeah. Like it wasn't hard to convince her. Sure. So he would...

What was a little suspicious was he would come back from these trips a lot of time with women's clothing and jewelry. That's upsetting. And he would tell his wife these items were seized in payment of overdue debts or mortgages. I wouldn't want them. And so now you get them. And she was like, okay. That feels bad. But she was like, weird. Why get all your holiday decorations delivered through Instacart? Why?

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Now, because Watson was a consummate liar who, by the end of his life, couldn't even tell which parts of his own history were true and false, like he had literally muddled his own memory so much. That's scary. Yeah, it's really difficult to know where his habits went from bigamy to murder.

Like, where exactly it happened. Between 1915 and 1918, he was juggling several marriages at the time. Marriages, too. Not just, like, women, like, girlfriends. No. Marriages. Like, how? And some of those, his wives would just disappear without a trace. Oh, no.

Oh, no. Yeah. And as a result, it's impossible to know precisely when his murder spree began or even identify his very first victim. Okay. But specifically, since he frequently claimed to have forgotten so many details, it gets very muddled. It should also kind of be noted that

While he did confess to many murders, there's no exact list of how many wives he even had or how many of them were victims. Like, there could be more. Wow. Many more. Yeah. Even the details of those that are known to have been killed are so obscured and vague, it's kind of difficult to put everything together. It's not impossible to put together, like, an accurate chronology of the events, at least, like,

to some extent. Yeah. But I guess even like modern sources will tell you like it's difficult to put dates and names with victims to a T. Yeah, sure. Like things get muddled in here.

Now, in October 1917, while he was still married to Catherine Cruz, Watson, going by the name Charles Newton Harvey now. Jesus Christ. Oh, yeah. We're only at the tip of it. He was married to Catherine Cruz. Yes. Now he is going by the name Charles Newton Harvey, and he's marrying another woman now while he's married to Catherine named Alice Ludvigson in Port Townsend, Washington. Okay.

It's worth noting that he was technically still married to Catherine Cruz, but he had abandoned her several years earlier. Oh. Like maybe even as early as 1914, just abandoned her. Nice. Stand-up guy. Yeah. With the exception of maybe Cruz, it looks like Watson's method of meeting women was typically placing an ad in the Lonely Hearts magazine.

Oh, one of those. Yes. One of those people. He would advertise himself as a wealthy man looking for a wife. And this was exactly the kind, this was the advertisement that he placed under the alias H.L. Gordon.

A gentleman, neat appearing, of courteous disposition, well-connected in a business way, has quite a little property and has connected several corporations. His nice bank account has nice bank account as well, as considerable role of government bonds. Would be pleased to correspond with refined young lady or widow. Objective, matrimony. This advertisement is in good faith. All answers will be treated with respect.

Which you can see why people responded to that. Of course. He seems nice. He's got money. He's got property. He's looking for marriage. He's going to give you a chance no matter what. Yeah. All right. I'm saying. I'd answer back then. So once the advertisement would get some responses...

He would evaluate each one and he would pick out the wealthiest women. It's like a game for him. It absolutely was. And once he picked out that list of wealthy women, he would start a rapid fire courtship and urge a very early marriage with them. After the marriage, he would ask his new wife for a list of her closest friends, her closest relatives, saying he wanted to make sure he knew who was close to her so he could notify them in case of emergency.

From that point forward, he set about, you know, leasing them of money, essentially property, various other assets.

by either asking for small to bigger size loans or claiming, you know what, why don't we just combine our assets together, roll our wealth into each other's, and that would give him free access to their money. You know what this makes me wonder? I wonder when prenups started. I know. I'm going to Google that really quickly because it just popped into my head. Now in the early decades of the 20th century and for many decades later, the concept of a serial or spree killer was still unfathomable. Like,

I mean, yeah. Serial killers, spree killers were not a thing that people were studying or thinking could even happen. And the majority, you know, of Americans were naive to the fact that men would prey on women to the extent that Watson did. It just wasn't something that happened. Yeah. Like all the time.

So it never occurred to any of Watson's wives that not only was he only marrying them for the money, but he also intended to kill them once they were no longer of any use or value to him. Right. That never crossed their mind. It wasn't like they were looking at this ad being like, oh, I wonder if he's a murderer, like we would. Yeah. Like modern women probably would immediately be like, but this guy could be a serial killer. Yeah, like probably most likely. Never crossed their mind.

Of course not. And shouldn't have because it wasn't a big thing. It just wasn't a thing that they had to worry about. And also being married was like a huge thing back then. Yeah, that was a thing. You were looking to get married. You were looking to like combine assets. Absolutely. You were looking to find that partner. And it was a place of stature. That was your societal standing. Exactly. And by the way, prenups actually go back to ancient Egypt. Right.

Wow. Which is crazy. Yeah. According to AI on Google, prenuptial agreements, also known as marital contracts, date back to ancient Egypt where some of the earliest known prenups were written on papyrus scrolls over 2,000 years. Papyrus scrolls, excuse me, 2,000 years ago. But I think the prenup as we think of it, like the more kind of legal document, became more popular in the 1980s. Oh, okay.

But that's so cool to think about. That there was some kind of discussion of like what we're going to divvy up or what we keep in UGA. Yeah. And if you think of it too like in like more medieval times, it was like dowries and stuff like that was your kind of their version of like a prenup. Yeah. It was like leading up to the more formal one. Yeah. That's interesting. That's interesting.

But yeah, these women, they didn't have any reason to really be thinking that this is what they were encountering here. In fact, many of the women looking for love and companionship in the newspaper were older and more socially established already. So it made their pool of potential suitors a little smaller.

Not only were they less likely to be suspicious of a man who seemed pretty psyched to move into, like, forward with the relationship quickly, but they were also susceptible to the grand romantic gestures that Watson made and the promises of exotic vacations, you know. They had already been through this rigmarole. Right. So they're just like, another one. Let's go. Yeah.

Unfortunately for many of Watson's wives, those exciting and exotic vacations would turn out to be their last. Starting with Alice Ludwigson in 1917. According to his confession later, the two of them took a fishing trip on a river in Idaho. And while out on the water in their small rowboat, the boat became jammed up against some logs that had been secured to the riverbank.

And Watson said, he claimed, that Alice started to push against the logs with her hands and he was pushing with his feet. And when the boat finally, like, dislodged, she lost her balance and fell from the boat. And he said his first impulse was to rush to one of the logging camps in the vicinity and ask for help. But he was a stranger in the neighborhood and fearing that he might be suspected of being the cause of the woman's death, he finally decided to say nothing about the matter.

I feel like this went differently. He definitely murdered her. Yeah. Absolutely. Like drowned her most likely. Her body was never recovered. And her death only came to light after he was arrested. Wow. Yeah. It was definitely a murder. Like for sure. But he claimed it was an accident. And he claimed that it gave him the idea that he could, oh, conveniently get rid of his wives once he secured access to their finances. And then he could move on to a new woman. Yeah.

you know, using the Lonely Hearts section of the newspaper and keep doing it. The next several murders happened in quick succession, all in a very similar manner to Alice. There was Beatrice Andre-Wartha, a widow who was described as having a particularly lovely disposition. Watson married her in Tacoma, Washington in the summer of 1918 under the name Harry Lewis. Yeah.

They took a trip to Lake Washington a few months later where Beatrice drowned under mysterious circumstances. So he likes to drown people. Yeah, he changes it up a little bit. Oh, okay. Agnes Wilson, he married in September 1918. Now remember, 1918, that's the same year.

Same year. So his previous, Beatrice drowns. He marries Agnes in the same year. Damn. And in the same year, she met the same fate in Lake Washington, the same exact lake, when she fell from the boat, quote unquote, and drowned in the rough waters of Lake Washington. Wow.

Bertha Goodrich, also referred to in some sources as Goodnick. She married Watson and also, quote unquote, fell from a boat on Lake Washington one afternoon when they went out on the water. According to Watson, he said she tried to travel from the stern to the center of the craft and lost her balance and fell. Doubt it. But later...

He slipped up because he referred to this death explicitly as a murder. Wow. Yeah. So it's like, how could that be a murder if she just slipped? He would just forget what he referred to as an accident when he didn't. Yeah, of course. Now, initially, Watson framed the deaths of these wives, like I said, as accidental drownings. And he said he just, you know, he would capitalize on it by taking control of the women's estates.

But in interviews with investigators after he was arrested, he would claim he was, quote, impelled to do these acts by some dominating force that he could not understand. He said that the impulse to kill would come upon him and that he would feel that some mighty power was instructing him and forcing him to commit murder. Okay. Yeah. Now, according to him, he would resist the urge for a little period of time until he was no longer able to control himself and he would kill.

And after that, he said he would always feel a sense of relief, a feeling he described as having done well. Okay. So he's a straight-up murderer. Yeah. Like, he was made into a monster. And he, like, very much enjoys it. And he does it because he wants to, and I think the money is just, like, a happy thing that he also likes during it. Right. Now, the deaths of these women seem to have been committed opportunistically so far. Yeah. Or at least orchestrated to appear as accidents. Absolutely.

At some point in early 1919, though, only the following year after all those, it seems that the kind of accidental nature of these deaths was no longer sufficient to satisfy his need to kill. This is evident in the murder of Marie Austin, who Watson married in Calgary.

Very shortly after the wedding, they honeymooned in Coeur d'Alene, and on a trip to Lake Coeur d'Alene, he struck her on the head with a rock. Holy shit. And drowned her in the lake. Oh, my God. After she was dead, he weighted her body down with rocks and sank her to the bottom of the lake. My God. So he really escalated. Yeah. Her body.

Her death was followed quickly by the death of Eleanor Fraser, whom Watson married in Seattle in the same exact year, early 1919. For their honeymoon, the couple visited the waterfalls in Spokane. While looking out over the falls, the waterfalls, admiring the view, Watson came up behind Eleanor and hard pushed her into the waterfall. Holy shit. And she drowned.

And when he told detectives of this later, he said there was no controversy, just an impulse to kill. So he was like, there was nothing wrong. We weren't fighting. I just pushed her over. And she's just having this moment where she's probably thinking, wow, what a beautiful life I'm living. I'm on my honeymoon. And he pushes her into the falls. Holy shit. So although it's difficult to pinpoint the specifics of names and dates, you know, it's very clear that he is increasing in violence as he goes on.

A few months after Fraser's death, Elizabeth Pryor, who Watson married as Milton Lewis in Coeur d'Alene on March, and that's in Idaho, on March 25th, 1919. This is the same year.

So he's now on wife three for a year. And we are only in March. Which is insane. She died a similarly violent death. According to Watson's confession, shortly after they got married, they got into a little argument in what he called a house near Olympia, Washington. And he said Pryor attacked him with a hat pin. Okay. And Watson claimed that he pushed her away violently and she fell to the floor but hit her head on the corner of a box.

Based on the amount of blood, Watson assumed she was dead. But to make certain, he said he got a hammer and struck her in the head with it. Now, that's not entirely true. Okay. He didn't just hit her on the head with a hammer. He literally crushed Elizabeth's skull with a sledgehammer. A sledgehammer? Yes. What the fuck? The way that he just started drowning people and like pushing them over cliffs, like...

That's almost passive in a way. You know what I mean? But then to beat somebody about the head with a sledgehammer. And for him to claim that she fell and hit her head first, I think that's bullshit because you could never tell that that was... He crushed her skull. There was no way to tell that she had hit her head before that. My God. And after killing her, he placed her body in a large hole in the yard from a... And it was like a large hole that was from a tree that had been uprooted. And then he covered her over and buried her with dirt.

He went back to the house and he said he found the room was so covered with blood that he could not possibly clean it all up. So he just set the house on fire. I have a feeling that's what he was going to do.

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In the three years leading up to Elizabeth Pryor's death, Watson estimated that he married about 20 women. I love that even he's not sure. Yeah, he's not really sure. He's like, it's probably like ballpark 20. And some estimates are as high as 40. Really? Yeah.

Holy shit. Some of them disappeared. Some of them were murdered. And it occurred to Watson that it was getting a little risky to operate in the Pacific Northwest now. So he packed up his things, abandoned his many wives without any word. Because you're just like taking out everybody everywhere. And he traveled southwest to California, settling in San Francisco in the fall of 1919. We are still in 1919. When you just said that, I was like, hello? Yeah.

Once there, Watson met and married Nina Deloney, as well as two other women. Great. So he married three women right off the bat, whose names he claimed to have forgotten by the time he was arrested. He probably did, which is so crass and awful, but I believe it. Yeah. Nina Deloney arrived in California from Montana in November 1919, and on December 5th, within weeks of her arrival, she was married to Watson, who she knew as Charles N. Harvey. Wow.

On January 12th, 1920, they registered at a hotel in Santa Monica and they spent their honeymoon there. On January 26th, only like a week later, they left Santa Monica for a camping trip near Signal Hill in Long Beach. Don't go on camping trips. No. With these men. Just don't do it. At some point during the trip, Nina became suspicious that her husband was having an affair. Because he was.

Because he was with many other women. So many women. With all the women. And she found several letters from other women in his possession. Yikes. The two got into a heated argument, and after losing his temper entirely, he struck Nina in the head with a hammer, then smothered her with a blanket. After smothering her, he struck her several more times with the hammer just to make sure she was dead.

Just the brutality. Yeah, the violence is insane. That night he wrapped Nina's body in a blanket and drove south to the Imperial Valley and buried her in a shallow grave along a mountain road.

About a month later, one of Nina's friends in Kentucky received a telegram from her saying she was in Tijuana. Stop it. So he would also, and we find out later, he would follow up with letters to all their family members to try to make sure they thought they were alive. Which is why he asked for those contacts. And these are like multiple, multiple women that he's killing and maintaining relationships with their family members as them.

He had to have been kept keeping like crazy logs of whose family was who. He did. And he kept all their letters. I love that he can't remember certain women's names that he was married to, but somehow was able to keep track of all of that. For someone who has a shitty memory later in life, he was able to hold...

different people and I can't even remember people's names who I literally just shake their hands. It's true. I forget names immediately and it's not because I don't give a shit. It's because I just don't hold a name. Some people just don't have that ability. And this guy is literally holding all these facts with people, maintaining communication

communication with their family members, and then later is like, yeah, my memory is just crazy. I'm like, no. I just can't remember. No. That doesn't make any sense. Now, among the more curious aspects of the case for investigators and the public, honestly, was how Watson was able to do just that. How was he able to manage multiple wives at one time? Logs. Married couples see each other. And logs are one thing, but married couples see each other?

Most days. I see Drew like every day. It's crazy. Like you pretty much live with your spouse. Most of the time. Like that's something you see them a lot. Yeah. So juggling as many as four or five wives at once would require a lot of absences for each of them. Yeah. Why?

Watson's solution was to tell each wife that his job required him to travel often, either as a collections agent or a secret service or other government agent. Of course. He's like, I'm in the CIA. Yeah. To the ordinary American in the early 20th century, those jobs were familiar titles. That wasn't weird, like collection agent. Right.

But they were vague enough that no one was going to pry any further. Yeah. And in the event that one of the wives would become suspicious, he would just quickly pack up his and usually her things and disappear or just murder her. Yeah. Those were his two options. Yeah. Steal all her shit and disappear or murder her. Yeah. Now, the latest of Watson's wives, Catherine Wambacher, you may remember from the beginning. I do indeed. Became suspicious when her husband, whom she knew as Walter Andrews, had been gone for extended periods of time.

And during one of those extended periods of time, that was when he murdered and married Nina Deloney. Okay. So he had left being like, I'm going out on business and married and murdered a woman. And then wrote letters to her family members. Catherine was a dressmaker from Spokane, Washington, who married Watson in late 1919. We're still in 1919. How many

How many people did he marry in 1919? Oh, my God. So many. And before he left the area and relocated to California. And at the time of the marriage, he told his new wife that he worked as a federal agent and required, they required a lot of traveling around to investigate thefts. Despite this impressive and, you know, what you would presume to be a lucrative thing.

You know? Yeah. Watson seemed particularly interested in Catherine's finances. And within weeks of their marriage, he was asking her for loans of several thousand dollars. No. I'd be like, I thought you had a good job. Why you need my money? Yeah. Catherine soon grew tired of this whole thing and was like, you're gone a lot. And I think it's weird. And

And in early 1920, she followed him to California herself, showing up unexpectedly at his residence. She's a badass. How scary, though, to think what he could have done to her. True. And with Catherine unwilling to return to Washington without him, he had no choice but to set up a new residence with her in Hollywood. She was like, I'm not leaving. Incredible. Figure it out. Incredible. So the new apartment in California didn't do a lot to settle her anxieties about him, though.

He still disappeared for long periods of time. He seemed more secretive than he had ever been. And among the more sensitive topics that she would get into with him was the large black satchel that he carried with him everywhere he went.

And the bag was always locked. It had a lock on it. And he was cagey and sometimes combative when she would ask him what was inside of it. It's shocking that he didn't just murder her as quickly as he murdered these other women. Especially because she's asking questions. She's asking questions. That's the thing. Some of these other women, they're just looking out over cliffs and he pushes them off a cliff or hits them in the head with a hammer for literally nothing. For literally nothing. She's actually...

kind of on to him. She is. So assuming her husband was carrying on an affair with another woman, that was like the most she was upset about. Catherine hired Nick Harris, who was an L.A. private detective. Oh, I love a PD. Right? And she was like, and this is 1920 too, so it seems very...

And she was like, follow my husband, find out what he's up to. And chain smoke while you're at it. Exactly. Like Catherine, Harris assumed the case was, you know, infidelity. Like, pretty simple. It's going to be straightforward. I'm sure he's dealt with that a lot. Yeah. And he began following Watson in early April. And when he... That's when Watson had told Catherine he had to go out of town to investigate a diamond smuggling ring. Shut the fuck up. In Northern California. Do you ever notice how these guys who do this shit, they always over-inflate? Yes. They always turn into, like...

I have to investigate a diamond smuggling ring. Like, they're so, he's like, I'm a CIA agent. It's like, oh my God. You're just a stupid murderer. You're just an asshole and a waste of space. You're so gross. But rather than follow him to Northern California, as he was expecting to do, since that's where he told Catherine he would be going, the detective assigned to the case, J.B. Armstrong...

followed Watson to a small house less than a mile away where he watched Watson go inside and not come out until the following morning. Oh. Yeah. He's got a girlfriend or a wife. Armstrong waited until Watson left the house for an extended period, and then he contacted the sheriff's office and was like, yo, I need your help breaking into this house.

It's unclear what grounds they were able to enter that home on without consent. Shaky grounds. Shaky grounds. For sure. But an article published a few days later stated that Walter Andrews, James Watson, was suspected of complicity in the recent attempt to burglarize the Heinz banks, which theoretically could have given them cause. Okay. Probable. Did they make it up? Maybe. Possibly. I don't know. They might not have, though. Maybe they had some evidence here.

But once inside, they did get inside, the men located Watson's famous black bag. Oh, he left his bag. He left it. I'm so scared. What's in the bag? They broke the lock and discovered three marriage licenses under three different names, including a marriage to Nina Deloney.

as well as jewelry, money, and other valuables believed to be from women he had married, abandoned, or killed. And he's just, he's got all this on his person? Just walking around with it, yeah. And also in the bag was a list of 20 women with whom he had been corresponding. 20. Along with some of the letters from those women indicating he had no intention of stopping. Oh, he just felt like a big shot. Yeah, he was just on to the next.

20 women he was corresponding with. I can't answer a text. You can't. And this man is corresponding with 20 different people. Couldn't be me. And via snail mail. Couldn't be me. No, honey, it could never be you. Could never be me. Like, holy shit. Back at the sheriff's office, the deputies, with the help of the Harris agency, sent telegrams to law enforcement officials in the area where the marriage licenses had been issued.

And it was from those agencies that investigators learned their suspect, who they knew as Walter Andrews, had, quote, deserted his wives after they had given him sums ranging from $600 to $4,500. Based on the multiple marriage licenses, the sheriff's office got a warrant for Watson's arrest on the charge of bigamy. Yep. And on April 9th, they returned to the house to arrest him and return him to San Diego to be questioned for other crimes.

including the death of Nina Deloney because her marriage license was in there. However, when they arrived at the house and announced that they were going to be arresting him for several crimes, he pulled out a pocket knife from his pocket and cut his own throat. No! Yeah. But he lived because he says shit. He was rushed to the nearest hospital for treatment, and while they awaited word from doctors, they started investigating and unraveling the giant puzzle that was James Watson's fucking life.

It took some time, but using the information contained in the bag and the additional documents and information provided by Catherine Wambacher... Queen! Queen! Investigators in California were able to connect a lot of the dots from one alias and wife to another, because there's so many aliases and wives involved.

So they put together a truly shocking picture. By the time he had been stabilized a few days later, detectives had connected Watson to at least 17 wives officially, like at this point. My God. Including several who had gone missing under mysterious circumstances. Also, they were surprised to find his activity extended far beyond the borders of California and included wives in states up and down the West Coast and several in Canada.

My God. Because most had been taken for various sums of money and were fucking pissed. Like, a lot of them had just been taken for money and abandoned. Yeah. All of the wives that police in California were able to contact had no hesitation talking to them. They were like, let's go. Sit down. Let me tell you everything. According to Elizabeth Williamson, Watson's wife in Sacramento, her husband, who she knew as Richard Hurt, was a, quote, woman-hater.

It always goes back to the mama. She pretty much hit the nail on the head. Yeah.

Now, within a week of Watson's arrest, investigators had found additional evidence connecting him to several other women, much of which was stored in a safety deposit box in San Diego. So now he has all different fucking storage things.

It was at this time that he was also connected to Bertha Goodrich, sometimes referred to as Goodnick, and Alice Ludvinson, the initial like accidental quote-unquote death. His first victim, pretty much. Also by this time, investigators had identified several of the names Watson had used in his marriage schemes, including, but not limited to...

Walter Andrews, Walter Andrew Watson, Charles Newton Harvey, Harry Lewis, Louis A. Hilton, Andrew Hurt, James Wood, C.N. Harvey, Edward Huff, Dan Holden, James R. Ruett, and H.L. Gordon. That's 12. And that's all, that's like not limited to that. But what they know of. Yeah.

As they followed the clues from one wife and alias to another, it was coming increasingly clear that there was more to the story than simple bigamy and financial fraud. In a storage unit in L.A. rented under the name C.N. Harvey, detectives found a large amount of Nina Deloney's furniture. Oh, wow.

as well as typewritten letters from several of Watson's wives, which it would later be learned that he used to fool family members into thinking their loved ones were still alive. And they were all, a lot of them were like stored in this box. That's like a...

That's like something all on its own, like convincing their family members that they're still alive. Sitting down and writing as that person to convince them, that's a whole other layer of fucking. Exactly. Yeah. One of those letters, signed by Alice Ludvingson, informed her family that she would be taking a long trip to South America and wouldn't be able to contact them for some time. Oh, God.

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They also began assembling a large file of newspaper clippings where Watson was finding and meeting his wives, as well as several marriage announcements, including one from 1913 announcing the marriage of James Watson to Catherine Cruz. Huh.

Finally, they also discovered a bloodstained map of the Barago Valley, which investigators believe would lead them to where Nina Deloney's body was. It was bloodstained. That's so horrific to think about. While law enforcement officials worked cooperatively, which is nice to hear, because there are so many of them that have to work together, and this could have been an absolute shootout.

Shit show of egos and bullshit. Yep. And we've seen that happen. Oh, yeah. They worked very cooperatively to just disentangle this whole thing. Headlines in papers across California and the Pacific Northwest were full of stories of who they were now referring to as a modern day blue beard.

That's a reference to the 17th century French folktale of a wealthy man who murders his wives. It's also got pirate vibes. It does, and we all agreed with that.

Me, Mikey, and Ash were like, I thought this was a pirate. Yep. 100%. I thought this was a pirate. As soon as I heard about Bluebeard, I was like, oh, a pirate. Right? Like, it feels pirate-y. Yeah, I'd never heard of that grim fairy tale. Is Blackbeard a pirate? Blackbeard's gotta be a pirate. Blackbeard's a pirate. Maybe that's where... A pilot, I just said. A pilot, too, maybe. Who knows? It's Blackbeard, right? Yeah. That's why we... I think that's where we were all going. Just, you know, colorful beards. He was an English pirate. Yeah, I knew it.

So there you go. We're not far off. No. But each day with this case seemed to bring more reports of another wife and, you know, more disturbing details and new questions about the missing women as well. But what seemed to baffle the press and police alike was how very little Watson seemed to fit the description of somebody they thought could be a murderous maniac. Right. Who was also charming all these women. Yeah. Especially back then, too. Yeah. They're like...

They don't understand this whole concept. They're not seeing it. So rather than being the stereotypically mad killer they expected, doctors and detectives found Watson to be a, quote, gnome-like fellow. A gnome-like fellow? A gnome-like fellow's tricking all these ladies? A gnome? A gnome-like fellow. Who wined and dined his prospective brides at fancy restaurants and even endeared himself to the widowed ones with children. Wow.

Which is so fucked up. Oh, I hate that. He was, one journalist wrote, a man of average looks and build, well-spoken and intelligent. So he was just your everyday gnome-like fellow, you know? A gnome sent me. A gnome-like fellow. A gnome sent me. Almost two weeks into their investigation, police in L.A. were notified about the discovery of Elizabeth Pryor's body in Plum Station, Washington. It didn't take long for the news to hit the papers, and soon after, it made its way back to Watson that they had found her body.

He was still in the hospital recovering from that self-inflicted neck wound. He heard the news and he made another attempt to end his life by cutting his wrists. Wow. But the hospital staff stopped him. This is so crazy that I actually forgot that he slit his own throat. Yeah. Upon arrival. Because there's so much happening. I was like, wait, what happened? And I was like, oh, wow. And he slit his own throat. And then he heard that they found Elizabeth Pryor's body and he tried to slice his wrists. But the hospital staff was able to intervene. Good. Good.

So for weeks, Los Angeles County District Attorney Thomas Woolwine had been interrogating Watson, trying to get him to confess. But they'd made very little progress with him at this point. He was frequently claiming he had no memory. Now is it? Just bleeding the fifth. Yeah. I just can't remember. Yeah. And following the discovery of Pryor's body in Washington, though, Watson...

probably accepting the fact that he had no fucking way out of this at this point, asked to speak with Woolwine. And in the course of a few days, he confessed to killing four of his wives.

Yeah, four. Yeah, that was just the beginning. But by the time the case was closed, he had confessed to killing at least nine of his wives. At least. That was only what he confessed to. Oy. He told Woolwine, something just told me to go and marry them, and yet something told me not to. Yet I would go do it, and it seemed all at once an impulse came over me to go someplace and make away with them.

It seemed like I had done something I was ordered to do. That's scary because you're like, and obviously back then there was not really any way to like psychologically evaluate him. I mean, they tried to for sure. Like they always, I mean like how they could in modern times, you know what I mean? And there's so many things that didn't even have names yet. Yeah, that's the thing. You just wonder what,

What he was. What he had. Yeah. After giving his confession, he led detectives to the mountain in El Centro where he buried Nina Deloney. But he couldn't remember exactly where the grave was. Did they find her? But they did eventually find and exhume her from the shallow grave. His confession was published in parts in papers across the country. And people were demanding he be executed for his crimes. Oh, yeah. Both those he confessed to and those he was assumed to have been committing crimes.

But in exchange for his confession and directions to Nina Deloney's body, Woolwine offered him a sentence of life in prison.

You can understand that. And honestly, yeah. They needed the information. I'm sure Nina's family would have rather had their loved one back than another person did. Exactly. On May 3rd, 1920, just before leading police to Nina Deloney's body, James Watson made a public statement through his attorney. J. Morgan Marmaduke. Like, sir, nobody wants that. No. Also Marmaduke a lot. Right. And he tried to defend himself as mentally ill. He said... He does sound mentally ill. He does, but when you hear the statement, you're like...

But you're like real self-aware. Like I'm like, I don't know. Like that seems pretty self-aware. Well, and it's also like he seems mentally ill, but he's also evil. He's sane to me. And like, yeah, has the wherewithal to keep track of most of this at least. That's the thing. I think he's mentally ill, but I think he is sane. Yes, agreed. And knows what he was doing, knows it was wrong. I don't think he should be put in a...

institution or hospital. Agreed. Completely agreed. Yeah. So he said, is it even reasonable to think my acts are the work of a sane man who is in a position to control himself? My every act shows I am to be pitied more than to be blamed. Disagree. Fuck off. Yeah. No. I don't pity you. I don't pity you at all. You're a fool, but I don't pity the fool. And then he urged the public to consider the circumstances before passing judgment. He said, if they will do this, I believe the public will not ask that I should receive the same punishment as if I were a normal person.

Like, dude, don't. No. Yeah, you're definitely not a normal person, but you... You kept the logs. Like, let's not pretend that you were like, oops, I did that and now I'm moving on. That's the thing. Like, you were sane enough to make sure you didn't get caught for a long time. The fact that you were using aliases tells me everything I need to know. You made a new identity so you wouldn't get caught. Right, which means you understand the law. You can't claim to be insane or not understand the consequences of your actions now. Yep, exactly. That fucked you. Yep.

On May 6th, he appeared in Superior Court of Los Angeles where he pleaded guilty to the murder of Nina Deloney. Four days later, he was back in Superior Court where Judge Frank Willis handed down a life sentence to be served at San Quentin Prison. He was like, no. He said, your crimes as recorded in this court are the most heinous in the annals of criminal jurisprudence. And he told Watson, though he acknowledged that he does think he was mentally ill, he believed that the district attorney had made the right decision in offering a plea deal.

He was like, you do not belong in a hospital. Yeah, I agree. And he was kind of saying what we were. I think you're mentally ill, but you do what you're doing. On May 18th, he arrived at San Quentin to begin serving his sentence. And that's a rough prison. Good luck there, Jamesy-poo. Yeah. So for months, the story of James Watson dominated newspapers across the country. But when he entered prison in May, most people were assuming it was just going to kind of come to a stop.

And for the most part, it did. But at San Quentin, the guards and other inmates were baffled by this man. They were like, this is the guy who wooed more than 20 up to 40 women? This gnome-looking motherfucker? Like, what, this gnome-looking motherfucker? San Quentin warden James Johnson told a reporter in 1946, I had to turn away a number of women who had no legitimate reason for calling, but faked excuses in the hopes of getting a chance to see him.

Which, ladies, I have to say, let's get it together, okay? Let's make a collective promise to each other to get it the fuck together. What are we doing here? Did y'all watch the Barbie movie?

are we doing did y'all watch it ladies he's killing wives he's killing wives and taking their money or he's just straight up abandoning them after robbing them blind and you're like fuck do you want to see this man what it is it's the I can fix him mentality no one can fix this man you can't do it he hates women and is it worth it no queen fix yourself he was a gnome like motherfucker he's no no no no

But while in prison, he took up writing and tried to get his poetry published in papers around the country. Oh, just what we need, a tortured man's poetry. No one was interested in it, so he didn't get it published. He did find another way to keep himself in the limelight, though. Beginning in 1925, he began a correspondence with Los Angeles journalist Wycliffe Hill.

And he convinced that reporter that he'd hidden his treasure of more than $50,000 somewhere in Los Angeles. I'm so sure. Over the course of five years, the newspaper Hill worked for published a series of stories that sent the public running all over California deserts. Guys, what are you doing? Digging around for the treasure. What are you doing believing this guy? Yeah. He duped people.

countless women and you are all running around looking for his treasure. Well, and also his treasure is stolen from murdered women. You won't find that treasure. You're going to feel good about putting that in your goddamn bank account. Hello? Like, what are you doing? That he literally stole that. That's stolen money. This is a Wendy's. Eventually it really is. So at this point, ma'am, this is a Wendy's. Eventually it came to light that the paper had agreed to pay Hill $20,000 for the story.

And the series came to an end, with most believing the story about the money was, like most things about James Watson, a motherfucking lie. An article in the Los Angeles Times denounced Hill and the newspaper for having duped the public, writing, Incidentally, Watson is very proud of the way in which he trapped those he now considers his own enemies.

So he did that just for fun. Of course he did. And you all fell for it. And that's the thing. It's like he's sitting behind bars just lolling. Yeah. You can't let him have that power back there. Fucking gnoming and lolling. In 1930, Hill sued Watson for $25,000 for causing him to waste five years of his life on wild goose chases. Well, you're stupid for doing that. Then Watson countersued for $50,000 in damages, alleging Hill defamed him. You're insane.

in prison. And in 1932, a judge threw both the cases out and told both of them they would have to wait until Watson was freed from prison to pursue their bullshit cases. That's the other thing. I'm like, what the fuck are you going to do with the money in prison? He was like, stop wasting my goddamn time, you idiot. He was like, I got better shit to do. Fuck off. In his life at San Quentin, James Watson became a model prisoner because what the fuck else is he going to do? He's a gnome-like motherfucker. And even became an assistant to the chief medical officer at the prison. Who allowed that?

Not I. In 1939, he died. Bye. Of pneumonia at age 69. Rude. So pretty early. Rest in distress. And was buried in San Quentin's Boot Hill Cemetery in a grave marked only with his motherfucking prisoner number. Loves it. See you later, James motherfucking Watson. What a wife.

Wild, gnome-like motherfucker. Truly wild. A wild, gnome-like motherfucker. I'm never moving on from the gnome of it all. He's a gnome-like motherfucker who, fuck that guy. Truly. A gnome-like, woman-hating motherfucker. And fuck all, honestly, screw all the women that were like, I'm going to make him president. I'm going to call him and try to view him like, you guys suck too. We don't claim you. And his parents suck. Yeah. Everybody sucks except Catherine and all the women that he married. Yeah. Yeah.

Damn. Fuck that guy. What? Shout out to Catherine, though. One girl unravels this motherfucker's entire years-long scheme. She said, not on my watch. I don't think so. I don't think so. I do not think so. One, you're definitely not going to cheat on me. And two, here's all the documents that I can provide to the...

fucking investigators to take your ass down. And three, what the fuck is in your satchel? Yeah. What's in that goddamn satchel? She found out. She fucked around and she found out, but it worked out. But she saved lives. She did. She literally did. Catherine saved more lives. I love it. Yeah. I love a woman coming out on top. Hell yeah.

And you know what? Good on all these, I will say, good on all these investigative agencies that work together. Working together, yes. Because that could have been a big clusterfuck. Shit show. Absolute shit show. We probably never would have had the story had it gone the other way. That's true. And crazy, I had never heard of this before.

until Audible was like, hey, check out this title. And you said, fuck, all right. And I said, wow, that sounds absolutely thrilling. Okay, Audible. Okay. So yeah, you will catch us and our special guest. Outside. Outside. How about that? Or on the next episode where we discuss the title. Yeah. So check out Bluebeard on Audible and we will see. It's a bonus-y. It's a bonus-y episode. It's not a full episode. You'll still get your two and your one. Yeah.

So yeah, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you travel the nation duping women everywhere. What are you, that guy from Sister Wives with the crunchy hair? I'm trying to be an H.H. Holmes motherfucker, but you're a gnome-like motherfucker. Yeah. What's that guy's name from Sister Wives? Cody. Cody. Cody with the crunch hair. Don't be him. Don't be him. Ugh.

Oh!

Hello, ladies and gerbs, boys and girls. The Grinch is back again to ruin your Christmas season with Tis the Grinch Holiday Podcast. After last year, he's learned a thing or two about hosting, and he's ready to rant against Christmas cheer and roast his celebrity guests like chestnuts on an open fire.

You can listen with the whole family as guest stars like Jon Hamm, Brittany Broski, and Danny DeVito try to persuade the mean old Grinch that there's a lot to love about the insufferable holiday season. But that's not all. Somebody stole all the children of Whoville's letters to Santa, and everybody thinks the Grinch is responsible. It's a real Whoville whodunit. Can Cindy Lou and Max help clear the Grinch's name? Grab your hot cocoa and cozy slippers to find out.

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