Episode 592: Nellie May Madison: California’s First Woman on Death Row
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Hey weirdos, I'm Alayna. I'm Ash. And this is Mobbin. Hi. Hey. What's up? What's going on everybody? There's so much going on today. There is. Today's a busy fucking day. Also in between my fingers is just orange. Yeah. I woke up yesterday and in between the fingers only on my left hand looks like I got like a really bad spray tan. Yeah.

But like only on the inside of my fingers. Yeah, it's shocking. We Googled it. And what was the thing that I have too much of? Beta carotin. Beta carotin. There's too much beta carotin in one of my moisturizers. And it can happen by like eating a lot of carrots and shit, like things with beta carotins in it. Yeah. She wasn't doing that. I wasn't eating a lot of carrots. Yeah.

So now I just have to wait for my fucking fingers to go back to normal. I look like... Because you have like carrots. One of your moisturizers is made with carrots, right? Yeah, it's literally like a carrot mask. And I love this moisturizer. It makes my skin feel so good. But this is like not good for you. Yeah. Like the fact that your fingers are doing this. It means that there's like too much. Yeah, it's like an overindulgence. And one of the ways to like make it stop, they said, is just to...

Cease. Like cease using whatever. That's fine. I have a lot of different moisturizers. Yeah, I just told her about a great one. Yeah, and it's actually right next to me. She told me about Pharmacy Honey Halo Ultra Hydrating Ceramide Moisturizer. I love it. That makes me laugh because I use – have you ever heard – you've heard of CeraVe?

Yeah. I use that face wash. And whenever I use it, usually me and Drew are like in the bathroom together at night, like brushing teeth, like doing skincare. And whenever I wash my face with that, I say, your face is craving the ceramides and CeraVe, like they say on the commercial. And now you can say it about this. Yeah, exactly. Craving the ceramides.

But I'm sad because I loved my carrot one. My carrot one. My carrot one. I love carrots. I love carrots. I do love carrots. I do too. Not so much that I poisoned myself with an orange. Yeah, take it down a notch, I suppose, everyone. Yeah. How are you? I'm pretty good. What's your life? My life is my life, you know, and it's busy. That was profound.

My life. It's my life. It's my life. I was like, my life, be like. I'm very tired today because one of my kids had a night of nightmares. A scary nightmare. Yeah, that kept her awake for a little bit. So we were awake for a little bit. Are you willing to share what the nightmare was? It was a weird one. Yeah, it was like she said it was like a scary guy standing in the yard. And like she was like, you guys went out to talk to him and like.

He was gone when you went out there. And I was like, that's a scary one. Yeah. And like, I get why you're scared by that. Yeah, that's like a nightmare that I would have. Yeah, me too. And that's why I was like, oh man, I'm sorry. I know. And it's one of those things when kids, I mean, as we were saying, as an adult...

When I have a certain nightmare that like really starts your adrenaline and gets you in fight or flight and you wake up in that state. It's hard to calm down. It takes me a long time to fall back to sleep and feel comfortable falling back to sleep. So I'm like, you're eight. I get it. Yeah. But we just were. We were awake for quite some time last night. Yeah, that's rough. Hopefully, I'm going to do like we have this little like potion kit.

I think it's called the Little Potion Company. Oh, that's cute. And it's really cute. And it's all like biodegradable stuff. So you can do it like it's glitters and stuff that if you do it outside. It's okay for the earth. It's okay. Like you can do it. Like it's not a big deal. Nice. Because I don't want to leave glitter like all over the place to just sit there and rot. You know what? Thank you for caring. No problem. You know earth and all that. But so I think there's a little potion in there for like nightmares.

Like a monster away potion. That's cute. So I think I'm going to see if we can make that this afternoon, like tonight, and put it under her pillow. Oh, that's a good idea. Because that usually is stuff that she likes. It makes her feel better. Yeah, she's a little witch. She's a little witchy, so we're going to do that. I love that. But yeah, so I'm just living in a state of like...

half here, half in outer space. Yeah. Yeah. But you're doing a good job. Thank you. I don't do well with no sleep. So I applaud you. I appreciate that. You betcha. I'm living. I'm here. I'll get my second wind. I think I'm already on the way. I'm going to get crazy. I love that though. And we're recording Scream today. So like perfect timing to get crazy. I love it. I love

I love it. I love it. But yeah, I was trying to think of any other fun updates. There's a buzzing noise that's happening in this room as well that is freaking us out. We can't determine the source of it. We have these little like plug-ins that get flies and kill them. Because like summer flies. Yeah, like they just happen. And like sometimes we open the windows and shit. So we thought like, we were like, oh no, is that a fly dying? Like that's relatively sad. Because it sounds like that. It's like a zzz.

But it's not coming from there. No, I don't. And it just happened again. That's the only reason we're bringing it up. It feels like it's everywhere all at once. It's omnipotent. And I don't know what that means. I feel like we need Rachel Stavis in here.

She needs to come help us because I don't know what's going on here. I do wonder because we've been, I think everybody knows we've been like going through it. Yeah. And I think the negative energy is like collecting. Yeah. And usually, you know what it is, like Mikey's always really good at suddenly being like, we need to clear this out.

And I think we need to just clear it out because whenever we do, we're always like, okay, that's a different feeling. It feels better, yeah. I think we need to like salt the rugs again. Yeah. And we need a Rachel Stavis in here to exercise the room. Yeah. I did see – actually, that's funny. I saw it this morning. It was like – I know you're really not supposed to go on your phone first thing when you wake up. But hey-o. I do. Most people do. My cortisol is fucked. Yeah.

If you salt the corners of the room and you just leave it there for a little bit and then you can like brush it up or vacuum it away, it's supposed to like kind of take in all the yucky energy and like then you can remove it. I love it. I'm into it. We should try that. I'm into the salt of it all. All right. Well, that's everything going on in our world right now. I have a crazy case today. It's got like somewhat old Hollywood vibes. It's –

And it's just, I don't want to give too much away at the top, but this is an interesting one. I will let you know this is a relatively long one. I was going to try to break it into two parts, but there just wasn't really a place to break it. Yeah, there was no natural. Yeah, we don't really like to do that unless it makes sense. It has to be a natural break. Yeah, there's no like cliffing or anything like that. So we're going to get into it. It's going to be a long one. Sit tight. I really think you guys are going to think this one is interesting. Let's go.

go. And actually, it's kind of like kismet timing because Aggie Underwood plays a role in this story. And if you don't know who that is, you will at a certain point in the story. And then you can go over to Gossip Spritle. And at some point, they are going to be doing an episode that she either they're featuring her or she's a part of one of the episodes. Yes, it's with Spencer and Madison. New show just launched on August 6th. They dropped two episodes.

So interesting. Go check that out. You'll love it. But let's get into this without further ado. Let's go. We're talking about Nellie Mae Madison today. Nellie Mae Mooney, though, before she was Nellie Mae Madison. What a cute name. I know. Isn't that cute? She was born April 5th, 1895 in Red Rock, Montana. She was the fifth child born to Edward and Kate Mooney. They, like a lot of other families at the time, had immigrated from Ireland in search of better opportunities.

When they arrived in the U.S. several years earlier, Edward found work as a coal miner in the Midwest. But the problem with coal mining at that time and just in general is that it's not really the most lucrative job and it's not always a super permanent position. Yeah, it's like dangerous. I was going to say, on top of that, it's incredibly dangerous and rough work. Oof. So in the early 1890s, just before Nellie was born, Edward and Kate decided to take advantage of the Homestead Act.

which was a federal program that provided land to individuals and families who were willing to settle in the western part of the country. So they moved the entire family to southwestern Montana, where Edward found work with the railroad in the town of Dillon. Okay. So they just like...

Up and moved. Moved to Dillon. Moved to Dillon to work on the railroad all the live long day. I love it. Like many families at the time, life in the relatively untamed western states at that point was... Wild, wild west. The wild, wild west. It was challenging for the Moonies. They worked really hard to establish a sheep ranch on their land, and that really left...

a little time for any kind of entertainment or socialization outside of the farm. The combination of a rural upbringing and Irish heritage would become a huge part of Nellie's personality. She was fearless, she was adventurous, she was outspoken. And while a lot of urban American life was dictated by rigid gender roles and expectations at that time...

And it's still today. Yeah. The lives of ranchers and farmers were guided more by necessity than by cultural norms. So the women in the Mooney family usually worked right alongside the men. They tended to the animals. They sheared the sheep. Hell yeah. They did those quote unquote male roles at that time. Mm-hmm.

But for Nellie and her mother, there were also additional chores like cooking, cleaning, and sewing, the more womanly things of the time. Womanly. But the mix of labor and sense of equality made Nellie a strong, independent young woman who could take care of herself in pretty much any situation. She grew up very well-rounded. Yeah. Independent. Able to break a bitch. Yeah. Literally. Yeah.

Yeah. You know? Well, while Nellie's independence and spirited personality were definitely assets on the farm, there were times where she definitely became too defiant, very much to her parents' dismay.

In fact, in 1908, when she was just 13 years old, she eloped to Salt Lake City. I'm sorry, you said 13 years old? I said when she was 13 years old, she eloped with a man named Ralph Brothers. You also said a man. I did. Yeah. Yep. Okay. And I said a man who was 11 years older than her. So a predator. Correct. Okay.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. That's upsetting. I've never heard this story, so this is all going to be brand new to me. Oh, really? I don't know any of it. I like when you don't know the story that I'm telling. Yeah, I don't even recognize the name. This is...

This is a crazy case. Yeah. Holy shit. This captivated me. Yeah, so she eloped with him. Aside from a few references to brothers during her later interrogation and trial, Nellie rarely spoke of this particular marriage, and there's very little known about their relationship. According to historian Kathleen Carnes, who I'm going to reference a lot here, she is, like, so well-rounded on this one particular, I'm sure on many stories, but specifically on this story. Yeah.

But she said brothers worked as a cowboy and Nellie was an expert horseback rider, so she could have met him at a local rodeo. But in truth, no one knew how the two came to meet. Because it's horrifying. Yeah.

Yeah, because he's 11 years older than her. Because he's a man and she's a child. 13 years old. So it's horrifying that she met a predator out in the world. Yeah, it usually is. Ew. Ew. Yeah. So in summary, ew. Ew. But their daughter's secret marriage to brothers, who they soon learned was a felon with a long criminal history aside from being a predator. Shocking. Was devastating to Edward and Kate Mooney, who were deeply religious. Yeah.

Oh, I'm sure. Once they found out where Nellie was, they immediately went to Salt Lake City and dragged her back to Montana. And a few weeks later, brothers filed a petition to have the marriage annulled. In the petition, it was made clear that neither Nellie's parents gave their consent to this marriage. So it was quickly annulled. And she actually never saw Ralph Brothers again after that.

But even though the marriage was very, very short-lived and an old, like on paper it never happened, it did bring considerable shame to the family. And it made Nellie an outcast. She rarely spoke about her childhood throughout her later life, but Carnes noted a moment following her arrest in 1934 when a reporter asked to describe her adolescence, and Nellie said it was unhappy.

Which is sad looking back. I mean, that's all very traumatic. You're 13 years old and you're eloping with somebody like...

What is life like? Yeah, something's going on there. And it's also like, how were you groomed by this man? We don't even know that whole side of it, you know? Yeah, like what were you possibly running away from? Yeah. There's a lot of unknowns there. And what was he doing to make you want to run away from him? You know, like, what was he saying to you? Yeah. It's all very upsetting. It is. I mean...

That's young. That's a child child. That's a baby. Yeah. You're in, what are you like eighth grade? Yeah, you're a child. Yeah, that's crazy.

But Nellie, aside from, you know, eloping at the age of 13 years old, was like a lot of young people growing up in rural, desolate America at the time. She was restless and she was desperate for a life way more exciting or glamorous than the one that she'd been brought up in. It's most likely this impatience and defiant nature that led Nellie to run away with Ralph Brothers in the first place. And it would just be the first time her determination led her to pretty undesirable outcomes.

Boyzie. Right.

In fact, Nellie would be the only member of her immediate family to leave Montana, but she did return pretty often for visits in the years that followed. So she arrived in the city with no social contacts, pretty few resources, but Boise offered her something that she never could have found in Dillon. She wanted that opportunity for a fresh start.

Here, she wasn't Nellie Moody, a tainted divorcee with no education. She was an unknown entity. She could shape her identity and the future that she wanted from herself from pretty much the ground up. So at the business college, she learned the basic skills required to succeed in business like shorthand typewriting, bookkeeping, calculation, and proper grammar. Yeah.

And after two years, she finished her coursework. But rather than enter the business world, she decided to get married again. This time to a man named Clarence Kennedy. He was a local firefighter. They moved into a small apartment a few blocks from the fire station. But it didn't take long before Nellie realized that this marriage might have been another impulsive mistake.

And they separated less than a year later. Nellie actually never spoke publicly about this marriage either. And according to Kathleen Carnes, when asked about her marriages, Nellie always omitted Kennedy, though she never said why. Interesting. Yeah, that's very interesting. Yeah. I don't know if it was because it was just like super short-lived or...

Maybe. I mean, obviously the marriage to Ralph Brothers was too, but she didn't really talk about that one either. Yeah. But Kennedy, she just. She just omitted completely. Yeah. Huh. So single and on her own again, she found. It's interesting. It is. Yeah. She found work as a cashier at a local majestic theater. It was a movie house downtown. Yeah.

Back in Montana on the farm, she never had time for luxuries like movies. So here she quickly developed a big affinity for the films at a time when the silent film industry was making stars out of once ordinary women like Clarabelle, Betty Davis, and Norma Shearer. In the days before the production code, these films actually portrayed women as independent and having agency over their own sexuality, which is actually funny to think about. That's...

crazy to think about. Because it totally got flipped on its head just a few years later. But at this time, she could watch those movies and aspire to be like these characters because of their independence and their own autonomy. That's amazing how that changed so quickly. It really is. Yeah. But these characters felt familiar to her who, like we said, she's always been independent. She's a defiant girl. And

She wanted to be like them. For her, they represented the future that she wanted where she wasn't an outcast. She was just an independent woman. And people weren't like shaming her for it. Yeah, exactly. The movies may have empowered and validated Nellie's sense of independence, but that didn't stop her from getting married a third time. Just two years after her marriage to Kennedy fell apart. In 1917, Nellie married Earl Trask. He was an auto mechanic who owned a repair shop in Boise.

The marriage actually coincided with the onset of World War I, and like a lot of women, Nellie was eager to do her part.

So she quit her job at the theater and she took a job as a quartermaster clerk at Fort Boise where she was actually finally able to put her business school skills to use. Oh, there you go. Which is really cool. Yeah. The job paid better than any job she'd had and for the first time in her life she actually had disposable income. Oh, shit. So this was when she began her lifelong practice of dressing really nicely. Oh, yeah. Paying extra attention to her appearance. She kind of got to dress like the woman that she was seeing in the movies. Yeah, she was doing a little self

care. Yes. You know? Working hard for the money. Yeah. You get self-care a little bit. Exactly. Now in 1920, after hearing rumors of countless ordinary people striking it rich in the oil fields further west, her husband Earl decided that they should move out to California. He's like, let's become an oil tycoon. He's like, yeah. Let's go. We'll give it a shot. Let's give it a shot.

shot. It's like, let's go find a fucking fortune. All right, Earl. I feel like you got the right name for it. I don't know. I feel like Earl is an oil tycoon name. Absolutely. I 100% agree. So give it a shot. And also this was perfect for Nellie because she had spent years watching these Hollywood stars on screen and now she was like, maybe I could go make it big out there. You kidding me? Hollywood. Let's go. Hollywood? Hollywood? Hollywood?

So they settled in Pasadena just a few months later. The first few months in California were really exciting. Nellie found work as a cashier at the Raymond Theater just a few blocks from their apartment. Oh, that's a fun job. Yeah. And she loved working at the theater. Because again, she loved those movies. Yeah.

So it was really fun. It was exciting. She found a new job. She's, you know, finding some friends, doing her thing. But the excitement and the newness of California started to wear off. And the old problems of their relationship began to pop back up. Uh-oh. By the summer of 1921, Nellie and Earl split up and he moved to an apartment in Los Angeles. Oh, man. Like her other marriages, she never really provided a lot of details about her life with Earl. She never really explained why the marriage came to an end.

It's so bonker. It feels like it's, it was such a big part of what she was looking for in her life, but they're insignificant to her.

Once they're done. In the grand scheme. Yeah. It's like once it's all done, like I wanted it in the moment. It's pretty insignificant to me now. She's very impulsive. Interesting. Yeah. Very impulsive. So when it's over, it's over. That's it. Yeah. It doesn't matter. It's like it never happened. That's interesting way of thinking. And we'll talk about it, but it's actually nuts how often she was able to get divorced. Like divorces weren't granted. Yeah. That often.

that easy. It's not like you could just, yeah. Yeah, we'll get to it. But within a few months after separating, Nellie actually had no idea where Earl had gone and she would never see him again.

Wow. Honestly, that's probably ideal to most divorced couples. Well, and at that point. With like no kids or anything. It's like, yeah, we just never see each other again. That would be great. We just got separated and never saw each other again. And that is like, that was a way where she definitely could have gotten a divorce because it was like desertion. Yeah, she's gone.

So in January of 1923, she filed a petition for that divorce, claiming, quote, her husband had walked out with no warning one warm summer day, and she hadn't seen him since. Damn, that's a country song. That's poetic. That is a country song. It really is. On a warm summer day, he walked out on me, and I never saw him again. I'm a horse dad. A year later, in January 1924, that divorce was finalized, and Nellie was once again a single lady.

I bet not for long. Probably not. No.

We'll get into this a little bit because like I was just saying, divorce was kind of a source of shame and stigma for American women throughout most of the 20th century. It's a testament to her independence and again, her defiant spirit that at a time when less than 10% of marriages ended in divorce. Damn. Think about that. Now I think it's like 50% of marriages ended in divorce. It's fluctuated totally the other way. At that point, less than 10% ended that way. Man.

man, the amount of unhappy people. Oh, yeah. 100%. Because, like, the fact that people were just sticking in marriages that were, like, so unhappy or toxic just for the stigma of it all, like, damn. It's nuts. It's nuts.

But Nellie thought nothing of ending one marriage and quickly entering another. She was ahead of her time in that way. That's the thing. It really is a testament to who the fuck she was. Yeah, because I'm not saying go out and just marry people and divorce them willy-nilly. No. Especially because she didn't have kids. Yeah, exactly. So it's not like it's, you know...

If you're unhappy, you're unhappy. Why stick in it? And you shouldn't stick in it for the kids anyways. But it's like that makes it harder and that's on a lot of people's minds when they're going through that. Of course. But when it's just you guys, it's like. But that was such a progressive opinion to have at that time. And actually the fact that she has all these marriages and doesn't have any kids is actually a later point of suspicion. Yeah.

Which is interesting. I was thinking that was going to be used against her because like, what's this lady doing not having kids and just marrying and divorcing men all over the place? Yep. It absolutely is. Interesting. But we'll get there. Yeah. First, when it was not right when the divorce was finalized, it was a little over one year after her divorce from Earl got finalized. Nellie got married for a fourth time. Damn. To William Brown. Wow. The brother of her divorce attorney. Wow. I mean, eventually...

You're going to start fishing in the pond that's closest to you. You know? In your divorce. Your divorce attorney's brother. Your divorce attorney is quickly becoming your closest confidant. I know. He's going to start being your wingman at this point. I actually don't know if she used the same one for a few of these, but I'm assuming she must have. Yeah, who knows? Yeah. Wow. So...

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She got married to William Brown. William was also an attorney, actually, and he worked for the city prosecutor for several years before he started his own private practice not long before meeting Nellie.

Of all her relationships, Nellie's marriage to William Brown was actually probably her most traditional. It was a Catholic wedding. But after five years, it ended like all the others did. And by 1930, the couple was officially separated. In the years that followed, both parties, quote, claimed to be victims of spousal battery in their separate divorce filings. In Nellie's filing, she accused Brown of, quote, hitting her, chasing her around the house, and tearing up their marriage certificate.

Damn. William also accused her of violence, alleging that she, quote, struck him over the head with a bottle so hard it required seven stitches to close the wound. Oh, my. At one point, both accused each other of attempted murder, each claiming that the other had shot at the other during arguments after the separation. Holy shit. So I would say that that relationship was toxic. Yeah, to say the very least. Yeah, just a little toxic. Wow. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Glad that's over. Like we were just saying like a minute ago, because divorces were very hard to obtain at that time, Kathleen Karnes suggests that the accusations Nellie and William made in their respective divorce petitions, quote, may have been exaggerations or never occurred at all. Just to speed along the process. Yeah. Compelling excuses they both knew would win them a favorable judgment. Like they both just wanted to get out of this marriage and they didn't want any. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, anyone push him back. Because interestingly enough, he later becomes kind of like a confidant for her. Interesting. Yeah. So it's hard. I mean, relationships are toxic and they go through cycles where they're like super duper toxic and then they're like love bomb-y. So who knows? But interesting. Very interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

So following this divorce, Nellie decided that she needed a fresh start. So she packed up her few belongings and she moved out to Palm Springs, about 100 miles north of Los Angeles. Despite the worsening economic depression in the U.S., Palm Springs was actually a budding tourist town really popular with Hollywood elites. So Nellie quickly found work as a cashier at the Village Inn, one of the pioneering hotels in the area. And she actually was soon promoted to manager. So she worked her way up there really quickly. Yeah.

Within a couple years, she had become an invaluable asset to the company. And she actually started splitting her time between Palm Springs and the San Bernardino Mountains where she managed a resort in the summer months. So this place had her managing multiple properties. Damn. Look at her. That's a big deal to be a woman and to be doing that. Absolutely. That was an honor.

In late 1932, Nellie was readying to marry for the fifth time, this time to a visitor who frequented the hotel. But she was actually never really interested in marrying this guy, and the engagement period dragged on until March of 1933, when she met a man named Eric Madison. Oh, well, I recognize that last name. I was waiting for that. Like Nellie, Madison had come to Palm Springs looking for work and eventually took a job managing the coffee shop at the village inn.

So both now employed at the hotel, Nellie and Eric became friendly, and soon she called off her engagement to this other guy and started dating Madison. Wow. Yeah. Damn. She's got something. She's got some kind of riz. Yeah, she does. As the kids would say. As the kids would say.

It's not difficult to see why Nellie was initially attracted to Eric Madison. Like herself, he came from hardworking immigrant parents, and he left home at a young age looking for an adventure. So they were kind of like-minded that way. Yeah, from like stock. Yeah, exactly. When he was still a teenager, he actually started traveling across Europe. And in the years that followed his return to the U.S., he had lived in cities all over the country. So he was very worldly. Yeah. And also, like Nellie, he had been married and divorced, which meant that he was –

somewhat familiar with... I mean, there was a stigma. There was way more of a stigma for women than there was for men. Of course. But he was familiar with that stigma nonetheless. Yeah. He was, Nellie would tell her boss, a most fascinating man, one whom I can love with all my body and soul. Wow. I love how people talked back then. Right? And it's like, again, I don't know what's happening here, but obviously I've been around the block a few times with these kind of stories, and I can sense...

impending doom coming upon this whole thing. Yeah. But in this moment, I'm sitting here going, wow, they seem great together. That sounds like real, like, I love him with my body. And so that's what it should be, my friend. I agree. Welcome. That's the thing. But now I'm like, I don't think we're going to be the same. But remember, she's also hella impulsive. She sure is. So.

To Nellie, Eric at least partially represented the indescribable excitement that she'd been seeking since she left the farm. He was romantic. Like I said, he was worldly. He wanted more out of life than just a quiet domestic arrangement. Like they both wanted more. Yeah. Although he was managing the coffee shop for now, he assured Nellie that he was an entrepreneur and he had bigger plans for himself. He actually wanted to become something in the restaurant industry.

But while Nellie may have been enamored with Madison, her boss, Nell Kaufman, actually tried to discourage the relationship. He warned her that Eric had a volatile temper and was often quick to anger. And yeah, sure, maybe he had these big dreams and considered himself this astute businessman, but he was an unreliable employee and actually quite lazy. Yeah, see, it feels like it's like...

that classic, like, oh, I got big plans. Promising the world. I'm going to promise everything. And when someone says he has a volatile temper and is quick to anger. And is quick to stay away from that. You should heed that. Heed that warning. Heed that. Or at least, like...

Slow down a little bit. That's the thing. Like, proceed with caution. Like, I fully respect wanting to make your own opinion about somebody. For sure. But proceed with caution. Don't attach all your assets to them and get married right off the bat. No. But...

Interestingly enough, in June of 1933, Kaufman actually fired Eric for insubordination, and he left to find work in Riverside, which was a town about 50 miles outside of LA. Desperate to hold on to their relationship, Nellie quit her job at Village Inn. Whoa. Which, remember... This doesn't feel...

like her no it doesn't actually it does not at all yeah and remember she had worked really hard at village and to the point where she was quickly promoted to manager and then entrusted with managing another property yeah so like that's giving up everything that's a that's a bridge burned yeah there and it's giving up everything you worked for which is not for a guy which doesn't feel like like again she's she's a

A strange dichotomy of a human being because she's like has to be in a relationship at all times, which feels very codependent and very like insecure and very much that way. Definitely. But like at the same time, she considers them so insignificant later that it feels like giving up everything to run off with a guy doesn't feel exactly like it fits. Her style. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know.

Their relationship is very interesting and I will get to it later and we can kind of revisit this part of the story, but I have my suspicions as to why she was so ready to drop everything. Yeah. All right.

So, like I said, she quit her job. She follows Eric to Riverside. By then, the inheritance she received after her mother's death a few years earlier had finally cleared. So she was able to access the $1,000 that her mom had left her, which today would be about $25,000. Oh, wow. So she had a lot of money. Yeah. And she didn't need the income from working full-time, at least right now. But before she could access those funds, she would have to travel to Montana to sign some papers. Right.

So just before she was about to leave for Montana, Eric proposed to Nellie. Interesting timing, if you ask me. You mean before she's supposed to sign papers for a large inheritance? Yeah, crazy, right? I don't think that had anything to do with it. No, probably not. No. Who are we? But she's enamored, so she enthusiastically accepted. They're in love. They're in something.

She suggested an Arizona wedding and even had a friend and a lawyer that she'd met years earlier in mind for their witness. Oh. But Eric had other plans. He said he had a friend in Salt Lake City who was a minister and would happily marry the couple. Oh, shit. Well, I've got a friend over here that can also marry. Friends in high and low places.

But he also pointed out Arizona would have required them to go out of their way, whereas Salt Lake City was along the way to Montana. So this sounded like a great idea. She said, oh, that's a better idea. Yeah, let's go with that. Why not? And in June of 1933, they were married in Salt Lake City and then continued on to Montana, where they spent about two weeks in Dillon visiting Nellie's family and signing over papers for that very large inheritance. That had nothing to do with the marriage. Definitely not. Nope. None. None.

At first, Nellie's marriage to Eric seemed like it actually would finally be the one that took. But it wasn't long before she started to realize those things her old boss had warned her about. Uh-oh. After leaving Montana with that large inheritance, they planned to move on to Portland, Oregon, where Eric found a job managing a hotel. But within weeks of their arrival, he got into an explosive argument with a co-worker and ended up being fired.

Like immediately. We're seeing a little bit of a pattern here. Uh-huh. Yeah. So from Portland, they returned to Southern California, this time to El Monte, where got a job helping a friend in a restaurant. Okay. Unfortunately, that job came to an end just a few weeks later when he got into yet another argument and was asked to leave the position. What I'm seeing here is that he has an explosive temper and that he is quick to anger. We...

Has someone told us that? That's so crazy. I think somebody said those exact words. I feel like I've heard that. Yeah.

So thanks to the multiple job losses and failed investments, by February of 1934, Nellie and Eric had blown through Nellie's entire inheritance. Because he can't hold a job. And she bailed on hers. Yep. Cool. And was just going to rely on that money. But now they're moving all over the place, like having to pay for somewhere to live without having actual income. Boy, oh boy. So they're desperate for money.

Fortunately, Eric was able to get a job maintaining vending machines and working in the commissary at Warner Brothers, which that's cool. Oh, a movie studio. Yeah. Nellie also managed to get some part-time work at the studio working as a cashier.

It was a far cry from managing those two successful hotels in Palm Springs, but they both decided that it would hold them over until something better came along. And it would cover the rent at the Sterling Arms Apartments, which was located just a block or two away from the studio. So it was like they were close to work. They were bringing in money that they could pay for.

So things, they weren't looking up, but they were okay for the time being. Yeah, I mean, these jobs are taking care of what you need them to take care of for the time being. Yeah. You know, they can be a step up into what you really want to do. And maybe things will be okay, right? I don't think they will, but maybe. Probably not. Okay.

On Sunday, March 25th, Belle Bradley, love that name. That's a great name. Belle Bradley, she was the landlady at the Sterling Arms Apartments. She became concerned about her tenants in room 123, Eric and Nellie Madison. The previous evening, there had been a loud commotion in their room, followed by what sounded like gunshots.

But when Bradley knocked on the door to inquire about the noise, Mrs. Madison appeared at the door and she assured her everything was fine. Uh-oh. They agreed that the gunshots must have come from the lot across the street because Warner Brothers was actually shooting a new gangster movie. They were shooting a new gangster movie? They were shooting a gangster movie. I love that. So they were like, oh, the shots must have been from there. Wow, what a perfect coincidence. I know, crazy. Yeah. But still, Bradley suspected that there might have been something going on, like something more going on than it appeared. Yeah.

Eric Madison had recently been fired from his job at the studio after only a month. He never gets fired. Never. But that made her curious about how they were going to be able to afford rent going forward. Valid. She was like, I'm concerned. Since you have no income. I'd like to know. Yeah. Well, you have Nellie's income, but that's not going to be enough. Yeah. And you've basically blown through that at this point. Yeah. Yeah.

So after knocking loudly, because she checks on them the night before, and then she's still concerned. So she's there the next morning. And she knocked loudly for a few minutes and got no response. So she opened the door and cautiously entered the main room, calling out to see if anybody was there. Still, she's getting no response. So she made her way toward the bedroom. The room was messy. The drapes were drawn, so it was dark inside. And the bed appeared to have been slept in recently. Okay.

There were also magazines scattered across the floor, like somebody had been reading through them recently or, like, going through them. And a pair of glasses was sitting on the nightstand, and she noticed that one lens was cracked. Uh-oh. When she looked toward the floor on the side of the bed, she saw what she thought was a man's foot sticking out. Oh. So she moved closer to confirm what she was seeing, and that's when she discovered the body of Eric Madison.

He was lying slightly on his left side and curled up almost into a fetal position. He

He was wearing only his underwear, which at that point in time was a white one-piece that covered him from his torso to just above the knee. And the upper portion of that underwear was soaked through with blood from several bullet holes she could see from where she stood. Oh, shit. So she screamed and fled the room in terror. Oh, poor Bill. When she got downstairs, she called the police and officers were dispatched immediately and arrived a few minutes later.

Detective DJ Mockeret of the LAPD Homicide Squad was the first to arrive at the scene, and when he saw the body, he called his boss Chief Elmer Adams, which I just like that name. Elmer Adams. Elmer Adams. And Elmer Adams arrived a short time later with several additional officers and a team of reporters and photographers who had heard about the murder followed everybody into the apartment. That's probably fine. What a time to be alive.

Inside, the scene gave no indication of what had happened leading up to Eric Madison's death. There was no evidence of a break-in, and while the room was messy, nothing appeared to have been stolen. In the bedroom, the victim's blood had splattered across the wall, and there were actually nicks in the headboard and the wall from bullets that went through Eric's body. Holy shit. But there was no sign of the gun anywhere.

By 7 p.m., the coroner had come and gone, and Eric's body had been loaded into the hearse and taken to the morgue. A few days later, the autopsy would be completed, and it would confirm that he was indeed the victim of murder.

Damn. Yeah. Yeah.

That's how he died. Holy shit. So he just bled out on the floor. Uh-huh. Holy shit. At the time, the most obvious question in everyone's minds was, where was the victim's wife, Nellie Madison? Earlier that morning, several residents of the Sterling Arms Apartments had seen Nellie leave her apartment with a bundle of newspapers under her arm. Oh. She exchanged pleasantries with her neighbors as she passed by. Hello. Good morning. How are you? Oh, my.

Oh my. And then she got into their car and drove away and no one had seen her since. Oh boy. Given that she seemed to be the key that would unlock the entire case, the Sheriff's Department issued an all points bulletin warning law enforcement across the state to watch out for a quote, beautiful black haired woman driving a dark blue 1930 Buick sedan and believed to be armed and dangerous. That could only happen in that era.

Look out for this crazy ass murderer. Look out for a beautiful black haired woman. She's beautiful with black hair. Wow. Also, she's armed and dangerous. Wow. That goes crazy, as Caleb would say. Wow. Yeah. Like, truly, wow. That's a legit quote. Yeah. I was...

That blew my mind. That's wild. Yeah. Like, truly, truly wild. Yeah, it's something. Damn. So the next day, police made a statement to the press where they theorized that Eric Madison, quote, had undressed and after pulling back the covers of the double bed was apparently about to retire when he was shot from behind.

Ooh. Ah.

Of course, the papers that morning ran with the story immediately. They published a description of Nellie in a recent photograph in the hopes that somebody might come forward with any information. And they got lucky immediately. Just a few hours after the article ran, a man named Charles Brown walked into the sheriff's department and he said he didn't know anybody named Nellie Madison, but he did know the woman in the paper as his brother William's ex-wife, Nellie Brown. Whoa.

Remember, she had been married. Holy shit. To William Brown. Oh, man. It was from the obviously biased Charles Brown that investigators got their first detailed description of Nellie's personality.

Brown explained that she had been abusive and violent with his brother. He also conveniently admitted that William had also been accused of abuse. Of course. He said that she had even attempted to shoot him at one point in their brief marriage. Holy shit. He alleged that she had cultivated a kind of outlaw persona for herself and had no reservations. This is not funny. He said she had no reservations about engaging in typically masculine behaviors like gambling and drinking and smoking.

And perhaps most scandalous of all, Nellie's marriage to William was not her first marriage, it was her fourth. And like all those others, their relationship didn't produce any children.

Weird. What the fuck? Suspicious. That's... You gotta be a murderer. You must be. You gotta be. Four marriages, no children. Murderer. Yeah, murder. It's like, um... Or maybe she's infertile. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if we should point to that. Yeah. That's the reason. But like, wow. Like you're an outlaw because you didn't have kids. What a fucking time to be alive. What a time. She's been married four times and not one child. Like, okay. Yeah.

As for where Nellie might have gone, he explained that he didn't think Nellie had any relatives nearby, but he did say she was close with an older man named Robert Cuddy, who owned a small ranch about 80 miles north of L.A. in the San Joaquin Valley, and it seemed possible that she could be hiding out there.

To call Robert Cuddy's home in the valley a ranch was probably too generous a term. In the winter of 1934, most of Northern California was very sparsely populated. It was a densely forested region, and it had yet to be taken over by the timber and agricultural industries. Hmm.

Aside from the near-reclusive year-round residence, it was becoming popular with fishing, hunting, and camping enthusiasts like the Brown family, who owned a small cabin a few miles away from what was locally referred to as Cuddy Ranch. Cuddy Ranch. Cuddy Ranch.

Cuddy Ranch. Cuddy Ranch. I love how you said that. I don't know why I said it. It was through her then-husband William that Nellie met and formed a close relationship with the elderly Cuddy. The elderly Cuddy. The elderly Cuddy, who was one of the few people Nellie thought she could turn to and trust in a crisis situation.

It took some time to track down the location of the cabin, but once investigators Willard Killian and Ray Rowe got directions to Cuddy Ranch, they traveled there, very certain that they were going to find Nellie Madison hiding out. When they arrived at the small cabin at the end of the long dirt road, they hadn't even made it to the steps of the cabin when Robert Cuddy emerged from the door with a .30-30 shotgun in his hand. Also, I think that's how you say it. This is the Wild West.

Quite literally. Figuratively, literally, all of the above. Yeah.

The detectives identified themselves as law enforcement and explained that they were looking for Nellie Madison. And he said, I know her. She hasn't been around here since last fall. And then he reminded them that they needed a warrant if they wanted to search any part of his property. That's legit. It is. But before he could object any further, the two detectives disarmed and threatened him, saying persistence in that attitude was a good way to get yourself in jail. And that caused him to back down. He's just an elderly rancher. Just an elderly rancher. And he's actually...

Completely right. You do need a warrant to search his property, but they scared him. So they started looking around. And in the garage along the side of the cabin, they discovered Nellie's dark blue sedan, confirming that she was indeed in the area. During a quick search of the car, they discovered a .32 caliber revolver.

and an open box of shells in the glove compartment, as well as a receipt for that gun, which had been purchased on the day of the shooting. Huh. Yeah. At that point, the officers ordered Cuddy into the house at gunpoint and started searching inside of the small cabin.

In the bedroom, Killian pulled back the sheet that covered the closet and discovered a pile of coats, blankets, and other clothing piled up on the floor. And beneath all that mess, he could clearly see a pair of feet and tan and white women's shoes. Oh, man. So he just started pulling back blankets and coats from the closet and eventually discovered Nellie Madison crouched in that tiny closet and demanded she come out. That's wild.

Wild. The closet was so tiny that it took her several seconds to get out of that cramped space. Damn. But eventually she emerged and he grabbed her by the wrist and pulled her out into the main room of the house. He told her, we know your husband's dead. You shot him. We want to talk to you about it. Damn. She was calm. She was composed. She didn't react to the accusation other than to say, I don't know anything about that. That's probably the best thing you can say in that situation. Also, at this point in time, there was no Miranda rights.

Oh, shit. So when they arrested her, that's all they said. They were just like, come on. They didn't say you have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be used against you or can be or whatever. You have a right to an attorney, all that shit. Like she did have a right to an attorney, but they didn't have to. But they didn't have to tell her that. No. Upon arrest. Isn't it crazy to think about that? I always forget that there's a time before Miranda rights. Yeah. And that time was a long time. Yeah, it's nuts. Damn.

So for better or worse, Nellie's stoicism in the face of the accusations from hardened detectives would become one of the most talked about aspects of the case. I'm sure. More often than not, when someone accuses someone of murder, usually that person accused kind of like protests a lot. Yeah, to say like...

I guess being like, I don't know anything about that. It's sort of like saying I didn't do it. But you'd think if you didn't do it, you'd be like, oh my God, I would never kill my husband. Holy shit. Yeah, she just said, I don't know anything about that. Yeah, but she doesn't. And she also said literally not one word to the detectives as they drove back to LA. She's remaining silent. She is. She has that right. And she knows it. Remember, she was married to an attorney. There you go.

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She was similarly silent when she was placed in the interrogation room, surrounded by detectives, reporters, photographers. In the interrogation room? Yeah, they were allowed in the interrogation room. Kathleen Carnes noted, the relationship between reporters and police was quite different at that time. You don't say. And reporters and photographers all swept into the interrogation room with Nellie. That is bonkers. Like, just picturing that and...

I mean, picturing how overwhelming that must be. The chaos of that and then having to answer questions. And honestly, the detectives having to interrogate under that kind of situation. Yeah.

It's such a delicate dance interrogation. Absolutely. And to have all that chaos and circus around you, like, no. They weren't getting proper ones then. It's a wild scene to imagine. But in the interrogation room, she was peppered with questions about the night of the murder as they tried to get more information out of her or even some kind of confession. Karn said, they really didn't know what to make of her. She's not submissive in the face of being questioned by all these men.

That's, I love that, but I'm like, you, I think you killed your husband. Maybe. Maybe. Okay. Again, I don't know this case. So I'm like, I'm like, she sounds like such a bad bitch. And it's like, I don't want her to be a murderer. I don't want to tell you anything. Yeah. I won't. I'll let it flow. Yeah. No, I don't blame you for wanting to know. Yeah.

This is a very interesting case. Oh, that's good. Okay. All right. I just love the idea. Like she's not submissive in the face of being questioned by all this men. Like she's like, she's like throwing them all off their game. Well, no matter what, that's the thing. She is throwing everyone off their game. Quite the contrary. In fact, Nellie remained quietly defiant as she was harshly scrutinized by a room full of increasingly aggressive men. That's horrifying. That's the other thing. She's the only woman in that room and these are all men. Like,

Peppering her with questions, probably getting up in her face, screaming at her. That would be terrifying. Yeah, it'd be scary. But while she continued denying any knowledge of the murder, she did reluctantly answer some basic biographical questions. She confirmed that she had been married five times and she said she was and always had been childless because that was a big point of this case. They continued asking her, like, you don't have any children? None? She's like, no. Married five times, no kids? Yeah. Hey, you got kids, lady? Why you got no kids? You don't have kids?

You're an outlaw. They just kept asking her. She's like, yep, no kids. Thanks for asking again. Former San Diego public defender Gary Gibson said, in their eyes, the number of marriages was astonishing. And the fact that she had no children from those was suspicious. The fact that that's suspicious. I just can't get over that. Are you trying to... I'm like, do you guys think she killed those kids? Yeah, because many...

People with children commit heinous crimes. Yeah. So why is it suspicious that she's not mutually excused? Yeah, like having children isn't going to stop you if you're committing heinous crimes. Yeah. I don't know exactly what their suspicions were. I think it's more just like it's suspicious like it's unheard of. Yeah. So like it makes them suspicious. Like who the fuck is this woman? Who the fuck are you? Yeah. It's weird though. So weird. It's hard to wrap your mind around that.

But investigators had – they only ever had one suspect. And Nellie knew if she wanted to stay out of jail, she couldn't stay quiet forever. Yeah.

But rather than cave to the increasing pressure from the detectives, she did something that shocked almost everyone in the interrogation room. She refused to answer any more questions without her lawyer present and demanded a phone call. Damn. She knows her rights. Like I said, at the time of Nellie's arrest, Miranda v. Arizona, the case that established that law enforcement has a legal obligation to inform individuals of their rights when they're being placed under arrest, was still 30 years away. What?

Wow. 30 fucking years away. So we're talking... Hearing that will never not shock me. I think it's like 1960s. Yeah. So there's been so many cases that we've talked about, I mean, that Miranda rights weren't a part of. And that we just like don't really think about it. No. Which is nuts. Because you just...

It hasn't been around more than it has been around at this point, which is wild. Yeah, honestly. And because of that, a lot of people in that time period before Miranda v. Arizona didn't really know that they had particular rights. They did have those rights. They just weren't being read to them. Mm-hmm.

But like I said earlier, having been married to a defense attorney not so long ago, Nellie was one of the few who knew she had a right not to answer questions. Wow. And a right to demand a lawyer. What an upper hand in that situation. Because imagine if she hadn't known that. No. This could have gone very differently. And it doesn't really go completely well for her, but we'll get there.

In late 1933 and early 1994, defense attorney Joseph Ryan had started advertising his services to the public all around Los Angeles. And as it happened, Nellie happened to pick up a matchbook with his contact information on it at some point in time. And it was in her purse at her time of arrest. Oh, shit. So when she was allowed to make a call, she hired Ryan as her lawyer on the spot. And he rushed down to the precinct to represent his client. Damn, that was luck.

Uh-oh. Nellie probably assumed that he was a good lawyer, like would be. Just like I did. Yeah, just like you did. She assumed he'd be as good a lawyer as any. And it couldn't be worse than having no attorney at all, she thought. But she didn't really know anything about him or his history. According to Gary Gibson, Joseph Ryan had gotten fired from the district attorney's office and had become the equivalent of an ambulance chaser. Oh.

Yeah. That's not good. Uh-huh. Eek. So he informed his client, Joseph Ryan informed his client to say nothing to the police or the press for the time being and let him take the lead. And that's exactly what she did. Within days of her arrest, Ryan had assembled the press and given a statement where he told the reporters, what she told me to my mind constitutes a perfect defense. He also assured the press that Nellie was innocent and denied any part in the shooting. Okay. Okay. I mean, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Let's go.

While he was enthusiastically defending his client in the press, investigators continued tirelessly working to build an airtight case against Nellie.

It turned out the gun that they found in her car at Cuddy Ranch was actually not the weapon used in the murder. Whoa. But the receipt was evidence of her owning a second gun. Oh. Which they had yet to find and believe to be that murder weapon. Detectives actually traced that receipt to a gun shop on Hollywood Boulevard, and the merchant remembered Nellie due to the unusual circumstances of the purchase.

According to the owner of the shop, she had come in the previous week with a Spanish revolver that she had recently purchased from a pawn shop, and it was badly in need of repair.

The man told her they didn't have a gunsmith at the shop, and she explained, quote, she and her husband were looking to spend the weekend at a mountain cabin near LaBeck, I think, and wished to do some target shooting. And when she learned that the gun couldn't be repaired, she switched up tactics, telling her man, telling, telling her man, telling the man, her husband had insisted if the revolver couldn't be repaired, that she should buy a new one. So he sold her a 3220 caliber Colt revolver. Oh.

Okay. Revolver. I don't know why I said revolver. Prior to completing the sale, though, he raised the issue of a permit, which Nellie didn't have. And he reminded her that there was a state law that required buyers to wait a full 24 hours between purchase and pickup of a firearm, which I actually didn't know. Okay.

He explained, in none of this conversation did she display the least ill feeling toward her husband. But he did say she did become visibly anxious about having to wait to get the gun. After explaining that they were leaving that afternoon, she was like, I really need this now. Like, is there any way you can do me a solid? He relented and allowed her to leave with that gun. Oh, shit. He kind of broke a law. So he, yeah, that wasn't good. Yeah, definitely not. He was probably shitting himself. Yeah.

So as investigators continued putting together the pieces of the case without Nellie's help, the press quickly picked up the sensational story and ran with it. Gary Gibson said she was the cool, quiet, good-looking femme fatale. She was this hot chick who killed her husband. Yeah, pretty much. According to the press. According to the press. They referred to her variously as the Sphinx Woman, Iron Woman, and Enigma Woman.

All references to herself. Get it together. Enigma woman is my favorite. They were all referencing her stoicism and the air of mystery they felt was surrounding her. Damn. It's a lot. She's just not like smiling or showing lots of emotion. She's just like talking. She's fucking stone. And it's like, or she's just a human under a lot of pressure. Iron woman. Like, come on. Sphinx woman. Enigma woman. All of them are wild. Yeah.

But her commitment to silence may have had a certain appeal to the media. It did little to help her cause an illegal sentence. At the end of March, when Nellie was called to testify at the coroner's inquest, she declined, saying she would, quote, stand by her constitutional rights.

Oh, yikes. Because remember, she was doing that in the beginning because she didn't have a lawyer yet and she knew it was her right. So she was like, let me not say anything until my lawyer's here. But now her lawyer's telling her, stay quiet. She's being advised not to talk. Which you think would be, you know, you listen to that. Yeah, you listen to that. And I'm sure that has its pros, but it also has its cons because then everybody else is filling in the story for you. Exactly.

Later, it was learned that Nellie's silence was largely the result of her lawyer's instructions. But at that time, her refusal to speak, like I was just saying, only gave others time to fill in the gaps for her. For example, sheriff's deputies happily told reporters of her several failed marriages, basically revealing her private shame to readers all over California, if not the United States, because this got big. Yeah.

They claimed this information may have no direct bearing on the present case, but we want to gather all the data on Mrs. Madison that we can. Yeah, so that we can just paint her in a certain way. Exactly. The fact that law enforcement would share these details with the press was pretty telling of the public disapproval of women like Nellie Madison. Yeah. Kathleen Karn said they didn't like her lifestyle or the fact that she didn't break down and cry. Yeah, that's 100% part of this is they were pissed that they couldn't get her to break down.

Yeah, they want to break her down. And they cannot handle the idea of not being able to break at least anybody, especially not this woman. Exactly. So they're like, if we can't do it, the public will do it for us. Yeah, the public will break her down for us. And it's like, that's fucked. Yeah, it is.

On April 12th, a grand jury was convened to review the evidence in the case, and at that time, several witnesses, including that landlady, Belle Bradley, Robert Cuddy, and the gun shop owner gave testimony that supported the prosecution's case. Nellie, on the other hand, offered no defense and said very little. When asked for comment, Joseph Ryan explained that the, quote, "'surprise' defense of Mrs. Madison would not be told at the hearing and that she would stick to her decision to say nothing until brought to trial."

So he's like, I got something up my sleeve, but I'm not telling you yet. And we're like, do you, Ryan? Do you? We're still asking. Who said today? We're still asking. Yeah. Without evidence in her favor and no explicit defense offered, Nellie was held without bail, and the case was deemed appropriate for the state superior court, and that trial date was set for May 24th.

Obviously, the trial was pushed back a number of times because that always happens. It does always happen. It's so many formalities and each side tries to get it pushed so they can have longer to spend working on it. But jury selection finally started on June 6, 1934. Wow.

And it was while questioning prospective jurors that Joseph Ryan started to give some indication of his supposed secret defense when he asked jurors questions like, do you object to homicide as self-defense? So was he going for a self-defense angle here? I don't know. Yeah.

He wasn't the only one whose rhetoric provided some insight into their trial strategy. District Attorney, I think it's Buron Fitz. Yep, it is. Yeah, Buron. Because I say so. Yep, it is. Buron Fitz. He also caused a stir with his indication that the state wanted to make an example out of Nellie and intended to pursue the death penalty. Holy shit. Yeah.

Whoa. Yeah.

But both had their sentences commuted and they both avoided execution. So no woman had been put to death in California yet. So she would be the first woman to be executed in the state's history at that point. To make matters worse, the judge overseeing this particular case was Judge Charles Frick, a notorious hanging judge who rarely had any sympathy for the accused in court.

You have to take a long look at your life if you are known as a notorious hanging judge. Who has no sympathy for the accused. Like, you gotta take a look. Yeah. You gotta take a little peek back. You gotta think about that a little. And you just gotta, yeah, you gotta think on it for a minute. You should, at least. Because that moniker is alarming. It's scary. Alarming, jarring. But he probably loved that, though. Oh, that's the thing, and it's like, I'm upset. I'm

I'm scared. I don't know. That's just not a good thing to be known for. Not in my opinion. A hanging judge. A notorious one at that. Don't you want to be known as like unbiased and fair? I think that's actually the whole point of being a judge. Is just going to look at each one individually and look at the evidence. That's what I would want in a judge. That's what I would want.

And I'm sure that's what Nellie wanted in a judge, but she didn't get that. No, she didn't. So the trial began on June 11th and spectators started lining by the hundreds that morning, hoping to get a look at the accused. They, quote, were jamming the corridors and breaking down wooden barriers installed for crowd control. In his opening statement, Deputy District Attorney Paul Palmer took nearly an hour to lay out the state's strong circumstantial case against Nellie.

They said the defendant was a cold-blooded, quote-unquote, ruthless murderess, Palmer said, who, quote, planned and executed the killing of her husband with deliberate malice. He explained how she purchased a gun specifically to commit the crime, and when that one failed to operate, giving her the opportunity to abandon her plan, she did not do that. Instead, she went out and bought a second gun because she was that determined to kill her husband. I mean, that is a very good case that they are laying out here. Yeah.

It's a perfect case, in my opinion. To be able to throw out there with evidence, she bought a gun. That didn't work. She had the opportunity to back out of this whole thing. And she did it again. And instead she was so determined to kill him that she bought a second one. Yeah. That doesn't look good. It doesn't. The state was not required to offer a motive and they actually didn't. But by then the press had done such a good job of slandering Nellie as a femme fatale that they didn't really need to bother with a motive. Damn. The press had done it for them. When the press does it for you. Yeah. Yeah.

From the moment Joseph Ryan took Nellie's case, there had been small red flags that he might not be up to the task. Oh, no. And now in the courtroom, those red flags were glaringly obvious. They became a blanket. It's like that guy on TikTok who runs around with the giant ones. The giant red flag. Yeah. His name is actually Joseph Ryan. Yeah, that's him. And he's in the courtroom. Yeah. Just kidding. But when it came time to give his opening statement, he said...

I will make no opening statement. Oh. I will save my comments for the trial and the closing statement. And then apropos of nothing, he said, Robert Cuddy was so drunk he couldn't have made a coherent statement to the police. Oh. Oh, no. And at that point, Nellie shit herself. You know those big, like, show business hooks where they pull you off the stage and it's like you, like, soft shoe off while it pulls you off? Uh-huh.

Let's get that out for Joseph Ryan here. Because that was the beginning. The fact that he the entire time has been like, we're not saying anything because I got some shit up my sleeve. And you're like, oh, man, the civil defense statement is going to blow us all out of the water. And he goes in there and he's like, I'm not doing one.

I will not be doing my job because I don't know how. And also that guy's drunk. So fuck it all. Like that's essentially what this guy just did. It's like, what was that? What was the show? The juror, the jury, the jury. It's like that lawyer that they're like fucking with them with. And they're like, this guy is so bad. They're like, no, this is your actual lawyer. A real lawyer in a murder trial. Damn.

Also, that comment about Robert Cuddy being so drunk, just like completely out of place, drew an immediate warning from the judge who ordered that it be struck from the record. But it was just the first of many examples to follow that would show just how far out of his league Joseph Ryan truly was. Yeah, I would say so. In his vague and cryptic comments to reporters and his questioning of jurors, he made multiple statements that indicated he'd be presenting a self-defense case.

But when the trial finally opened, his actual strategy was far stranger and far less convincing than any self-defense case that he could have offered, which is exactly the route he should have gone. Yeah, and you think he sounded like he was. No. No. In the early days of the trial, three state's witnesses had been shown a photograph of Eric Madison by Joseph Ryan taken at the crime scene, and they were unable to say with certainty that the man in the photograph was Eric Madison.

Mind you, he's been shot in the head. I was just going to say, wasn't he shot in the head? Yeah, so it's going to be a little hard to determine. The trend baffled the judge and the prosecution, but Ryan insisted his intention would be made clear, quote, in orderly manner through further testimony. I don't think it's going to. It will be made clear like what he was trying to do. But it won't be clear like why? Yeah.

No. Okay. No. Okay. For two days, he called nearly 20 witnesses to the stand. Damn. All of whom knew Eric in some capacity throughout his life. Okay. And a few of them couldn't confirm the dead man in the photograph to be Eric Madison. But under cross-contamination, many witnesses acknowledged it could be him in the photo. Yeah. But they could not say with 100% certainty. They just didn't want to definitively say it.

Finally, when Nellie took the stand in her own defense on June 14th, Ryan's strategy came into focus. Not only did Nellie claim that she didn't shoot her husband or anyone else, but she insisted, as Ryan had intimated, the man in the photo didn't look like her husband because he was, in fact, not her husband. They have his body, though. Correct. Like, we can go check.

Yep. Okay. Yep. Okay. Wow, what an interesting strategy. Yeah. You know in dodgeball when they're like, bold move, Cotton, let's see how it works out for them? Yep. That's how I feel right now. You shouldn't feel like that right now. Like when they're literally like, oh, it looks like they're forfeiting the game. He's like, bold move, Cotton, let's see how it works out for them. That's what the prosecution's saying. That's how I feel right now. Looks like they're forfeiting the trial. Yeah, bold move, let's see how it works out for them. Yeah. Yeah.

We will. Yeah. From the outset, Nellie's testimony was very hard for anyone to believe who had been following the case. Yeah. By stating that she had neither shot nor even recognized the dead man, she was implying that her husband was still alive somewhere and just simply hadn't come forward to clear anything up. Yeah, he was just seeing the press and being like, whoa. Yeah, that seemed unusual given the fact that he was her husband and she was on trial for murder.

Otherwise, she claimed that on the night of the murder, Eric returned home briefly around 10 p.m. and then went out again a short time later. And she went to bed until she was woken up by Bell Bradley about an hour or so later. She left early the next morning, just as the other witnesses had claimed. And she went to Cuddy Ranch, where she was supposed to meet her husband. And then she just spent some time hiding in a closet. Yeah, we all do it.

Duh. Anything that happened after that, including the murder of a stranger in her apartment, she knew nothing about. So she's literally like, I don't know where my husband Eric went.

Yep. Supposed to meet him at this ranch for no fucking reason at all. Yep. Instead, I shoved myself into a tiny little crawl space in the closet and hid behind shit tons of coats and stuff. Yep. And the police had to literally physically pull me out of there. Yes. But what happened in that apartment with that stranger who I have never met that ended up dead in his underwear in my bedroom? I don't know about that. Why would I? Why are you asking me? Yes. Yes.

That's her story and for now she's sticking to it. Again, I say bold strategy. Bold fucking strategy. Bold strategy. I don't know. This is very interesting. She put a lot of faith in Joseph Ryan.

Sadly. Yeah. And she shouldn't have. A very unearned faith. So, despite seeming pretty fucking implausible, Ryan called to the stand Cecilia Durst, another resident of Sterling Arms, who claimed that around 2 a.m. on the night of the murder, she heard noises outside of her door. And when she opened it, she was, quote, surprised and startled by a strange woman who made a hurried exit by a rear stairway.

Okay. Ryan also questioned the residents of the apartment building, and none said they smelled any gunpowder outside the Madison's apartment or when Nellie answered the door to Bell Bradley.

Oh, that's what we're hinging it all on here? Yes. I didn't smell any gunpowder in my apartment. What? Uh-huh. Okay. The appearance of the mysterious woman in the hallway and the absence of the smell of gunpowder were meant to support Nellie's claims. For sure. But that all depended on Nellie and Joseph Ryan's assertion that the man in the photo wasn't Eric Madison. But it only took the state one witness to bring that entire defense strategy down.

One witness. Of course. Anybody. Let's bring somebody up here. Yeah. In response to the question of whether or not the man was Eric Madison, the prosecution called Madison's ex-wife. There you go. Georgia Madison. Oh, you mean someone else who knows Eric? Yeah. Like very well. She was shown the photo of the man in Nellie's apartment. Which must have been horrific. Yeah. As well. Yeah. Yeah.

She didn't hesitate to confirm that it was Eric. While looking at the image, she said, quote, he had a small mole on the right side of his nose. Okay. In his cross-examination of Georgia, Joseph Ryan just asked whether the woman had ever been in a mental institution. She said no, and he said no further questions. And that's a quote, by the way. He said mental institution. Okay.

So she said, no, that's definitely Eric. Like that mole that he has is right there. And he said, okay, my turn. Have you ever been in a mental institution? And she said, no. And he said, no further questions. Damn. Imagine watching this trial. Is he walking away from those interactions being like,

Nailed it. You know, like that whole mic drop. I can't tell you for sure, but everything about what I've read about this man does tell me that he is. Feels like he's like, y'all don't even understand. Got him. How good I am. You got the goat up here. In his mind, he is the goat. Like, what the fuck? And in reality, he is an ass. Yeah.

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Okay. Wow.

I don't know. Did they just like, did they convince themselves that they were correct? I have no fucking idea. Yeah. Deputy District Attorney Stallman told reporters, I think we can prove to the jury without any question that the man murdered was Madison, but I may ask the body be exhumed anyway. Just for the hell of it, you know? He's like at this point, like, yeah, let's stick it to you. Let's exhume some bodies, you know? It's no big deal. When asked his thoughts on the matter, Ryan gave his entire approval, quote unquote.

In the end, Eric Madison's body luckily did not end up being exhumed, but that was only one of the many bizarre moments in this case that also included calling the trial judge to testify and the prosecution bringing the Madison's entire bed, bloody sheets, and all into the courtroom. What the fuck? It was a fucking weird trial. What the fuck? Had this been televised... Oh my God. It would... Yeah. Oh my God. Cray cray. Yeah. It would have been...

Cray, cray. Damn. On June 20th, the prosecution gave their closing arguments finally, in which George Stallman, quote, I mean, literary references are always appreciated. Damn.

Yeah. Whoa.

So they're like, don't recommend that she spends life in prison. Recommend death penalty. Yeah.

On June 22nd, the jury deliberated for nearly 30 hours until emerging the following day to deliver a guilty verdict. Eek. When asked by Judge Freak what the penalty they believe should be imposed, the jury foreman stunned the courtroom by reporting that they agreed Nellie Madison should be sentenced to death. Holy shit. When the verdict and the sentence were read, she remained characteristically stoic.

One reporter wrote, the Sphinx woman accepted her fate laconically. However, later that day, she was reported by prison guards as saying, they gave me the works. They gave me the worst they could give to me. I'm innocent and I'm confident of the outcome. Whoa.

So after the verdict and the sentence were read, Nellie was removed to the women's prison where she was held in a private room in the hospital ward because at that point, the women's prison had never had a death row. Oh, shit. So they were like, where do we put her? So they put her in a hospital. Do we just put her in with everybody else? Yeah. Yeah.

And they put her in a private room. Damn. Pending her appeal with the Supreme Court, Judge Frick... I don't know if it's Frick or Freak. I think I said Freak before. I think it's Frick. And then all I could think was, is somebody going to match my Freak? And then I just picture him doing that. Judge Frick. He does have a specific kind of Freak. That's what I mean. Exactly. That's why my brain just won't get rid of it. Judge Frick set her execution date for September 24th, 1935.

Whoa.

Whoa. In simple terms, he was arguing that the justice system and jury had been biased against Nellie because of her history, like the amount of time she had been married and everything else, and the way which she chose to comfort herself with regard to men.

Okay. He also accused the judge of showing favoritism to the prosecution, which was actually pretty evident in his willingness to testify on behalf of the state. Yeah. Even though his testimony was related to his having been present for a minute detail of the pretrial hearing. Yeah. It's like he can't do that. Yeah. Ultimately...

Ultimately, though, the Supreme Court upheld the ruling and denied the motion for a new trial. In their opinion, in May 1935, the justices wrote, the record discloses that the defendant has had a fair and impartial trial, singularly free from anything upon which to predicate a charge of prejudicial error. The evidence is sufficient to support the verdict, and on the record, the court is not justified in disturbing the judgment. Oh, shit. So they said no. They said nor. They said we're not going to.

Once again, Joseph Ryan's long shot strategies had completely backfired and he blew the last best chance that Nellie had at avoiding execution. Good job, Joseph. Yeah, way to go, asshole.

So with the appeal denied, the case went back to the lower court for re-imposition of the sentence, since the original date had come and gone by that point. And Judge Frick set a new execution date for October 4th, 1935. Now running out of options, Nellie did something that she should have done long ago and fired Joseph Ryan. Ooh, sounds too late. Thank goodness. And she hired a new attorney, former L.A. city attorney Lloyd Nix.

Unlike Ryan, Nix had a wealth of experience, and he could easily see what a horrific job Ryan had done defending Nellie. Yeah, Lloyd, of course he knows. Yeah. His name's Lloyd. His name is Lloyd Nix. I believe him. I do. He was like, wow, maybe he shouldn't have based the entire defense strategy on the most outrageous lie humanly possible to tell. That was a misstep. He was like, maybe that's what you guys did wrong. That was a very big misstep.

If they were going to have any chance at saving Nellie's life, they were going to need to appeal directly to the governor of California at that point. Oh, snap. Which meant that Nellie would have to tell the entire embarrassing, shameful truth. Oh. By that summer, the Madison murder case was a year in the past, and even the public had moved on to other matters.

but there was one reporter for the los angeles evening post reporters aggie underwood there she is i was waiting for her to show up i know i told you it was going to be a while so if you missed it at the top of the show aggie underwood is actually going to be featured in spencer and madison's new show oh uh i was gonna say obituary they do have one called obituary they have obituary you know them from there but now they have the new show gossip's bridal yeah aggie underwood she plays

She plays a pretty big role in the end of this case, but they're going to go through, like, a lot more of her. Yeah, so check it out. So check it out. But Aggie Underwood felt that Nellie had been holding back crucial evidence, and the public had not heard the real story, she felt. She's been real quiet. Mm-hmm. So at Underwood's insistence, Nellie sat down for a formal interview where she laid out the real story of what happened and what led to Eric Madison's death. What the fuck happened here? So...

You'll have never guessed this. No, I have no guesses. That's why I have been very like, I don't know what she did or if she did anything or what happened here. Let me just state, I fully believe her story. Whoa. I fully believe it. Whoa. According to Nellie, and I don't support her killing him, but I believe the story.

Now, according to Nellie, she had for months suspected that her husband had been unfaithful to her on a number of occasions, and her suspicions were confirmed about a week before the murder when she returned home and found him in bed with a teenage sex worker. Holy shit. She was outraged, but her outrage was quickly replaced by shock when Eric lashed out at her, claiming that he'd only been with her in order to access the inheritance from her mother.

But what was most shocking of all was his claim that they were never legally married. What? He alleged that their marriage, quote unquote, was a stunt that he arranged in which he got a friend in Salt Lake City. Oh my God, I knew that was fucking shady. To play the role of a minister to make Nellie think that their marriage was official. Shut the fuck up. That's why he said, no, I know someone in Salt Lake City who's a minister. We'll do it my way. Yeah.

Not a minister. I knew that was fucking shady. After that shocking revelation, he brutally beat Nellie and forced her to write a letter addressed to friends and family where she confessed that she had been a promiscuous quote unquote fornicator and the fake marriage was her idea. What the fuck? So under duress, he wanted her to write that letter.

The false confession letter would have made a judge look favorably upon Eric in the divorce proceedings. But more importantly, it would have irreparably damaged Nellie in the eyes of friends and family. Whoa. Kathleen Carnes points out, back at this time, if you were living with someone who wasn't your husband and having sex with them, this could really ruin you and you could...

actually be arrested. So she could have been arrested and ruined just because she thought they were married and they weren't. Yes. And living together and, you know, sleeping together. Mm-hmm. Holy shit. Yep.

So she had very real reasons to comply with his demands and every reason in the world to believe that he would do exactly what he threatened if she did otherwise. Holy shit. So she wrote that letter while, like after having been beaten by him. Yeah. And the week that followed, he terrorized her daily. She said he threatened her. He verbally abused her whenever they were alone together. Yeah.

When he would go out, she would tear apart the apartment looking for the letter, which was the key to her freedom, but it seemed like wherever he had been keeping it, it wasn't in the apartment. After a week, she said she couldn't take the abuse any longer and she couldn't continue living on in fear, so she decided to take drastic measures to free herself. On the morning of March 25th, she went to that gun shop on Hollywood Boulevard where she purchased the Colt revolver, and then she returned home and waited for her husband.

What the fuck?

Holy shit. That's your self-defense. Yeah, absolutely. Like, again, I'm not like saying like she should have killed him. No, absolutely not. If they were going to use this self-defense strategy, which again, it seemed like Joseph Ryan was like, I'm like, how much did you know for you putting that, putting feelers out? He did know this story. He knows all this? Why the fuck? Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

So the next morning, she said she left the apartment building and started making her way towards Cuddy Ranch, tossing the gun out of the car along the way, which is why they never found that gun. Oh, shit. Should have tossed the receipt, too. I know. Just kidding. It's good that you didn't. Yeah. Once she got to the cabin, she explained nothing of what happened to Robert, who assumed that she would tell him if she wanted to. Robert's like a real ride or die. He really is. He doesn't ask where are we riding and why do we have to die. He's just like...

let's go he's like that's your business you'll tell me if you want to everyone needs someone in their life like Robert Cuddy yeah like damn in order to ensure that no one would ever be able to use the false confession against her she burned the letter in the woods because eventually she did find the letter oh shit and a short time later she was arrested

According to Nellie, she did tell this entire story to her lawyer, Joseph Ryan, who claimed that no one would believe her. So he developed an alternative and frankly fucking ludicrous defense strategy that she was like,

Okay. That she just went with because what else was she supposed to do? Right. Wow. Given that now she was only a few months away from being executed, Aggie Underwood was suspicious of the story. She had every right to be. Yeah. She thought, you know, this is a weird time to go public with your story. It seems like desperation. Because it's also a wild story. It is. It's hard to believe, but you can see it. Yeah.

You can see it and you just wait. There's more. There's more. And that's because I said right at the top, I believed it. There's more reason for me believing it. Okay. I'm not just buying it on face value. No.

So, Aggie Underwood was suspicious, but also she was a woman working in a male-dominated field in which misogyny wasn't just tolerated, but expected as a form of professional bonding. Cool. She knew well how women stepped outside of the bounds of traditional gender roles could be treated by the world. Yeah.

And she also suspected that assuming it was true, Nellie's story wouldn't just elicit sympathy from the public. It would also resonate with countless American women who understood what it meant to be in an abusive relationship. Absolutely. Because remember, at the top of this, we were talking about how many, like how few divorces there were. Yeah. There were so many women putting up with abusive relationships because they had no other choice. Yeah.

Aggie Underwood agreed to publish that interview on the condition that Nellie and Nix could provide some corroborating information that would prove it was more than a last-ditch effort to save a dying murderer. So she was like, I'll publish this, but I need more proof. Yeah, I'll publish it if you prove to me that it's true. Responsible journalism. Hell yeah.

While it would certainly seem difficult to prove Nick's reasoned, if Eric Madison had been abusive toward Nellie, it surely couldn't have been the first time he abused a woman. So they tracked down the person who would know better than anybody else. Georgia Madison. Yep. Eric's ex-wife.

She, strangely enough, actually played a key role in tearing down the defense strategy originally. Yeah. But if Ryan had bothered to ask Georgia any additional questions outside of if she spent time in a fucking mental institution, he would have quickly learned that she actually didn't have any love for her ex-husband. So all he had to do was ask a couple more questions. That's it. Damn. When Nick sat down with Georgia to ask her about her relationship with Madison, she told a very eerily similar story. Wow.

She was years younger than Eric when they first met. She said at first he was very romantic. Our relationship was great. But after the wedding, it seemed like he became another person entirely. That's horrifying. According to Georgia, he drank heavily. He cheated on her. He was violent, abusive, mean, narcissistic, like...

It just went on and on. All the things. Georgia told Nix that on several occasions, she would wake up in the middle of the night feeling like she was choking, at which point Eric would tell her it was just a bad dream. But the next morning, she would look in the mirror and see bruising around her neck where his hands had been. What the fuck?

Finally, when she threatened to leave, he became violently abusive toward her and forced her to write a letter exactly like the one Nellie had written. Holy shit! When she finally did divorce him, she made no claims and walked away with nothing.

Oh, I believe Nellie. Chills all over my entire body. Holy shit. That's the thing. It didn't just support the fact that Eric Madison was abusive. It completely validated and mirrored Nellie's story to the letter. And the fact that Georgia walked away with nothing. Yeah. Like she was like, I just got the fuck out of there. Like,

Holy shit. So the article was published the next day and elicited an unenthusiastic response from the prosecutor's office, who dismissed it as a, quote, desperate bid to avoid the gallows. Joseph Ryan himself flatly rejected Nellie's story. He said her mind was cracked under the strain. I think your mind has been cracked for a long time. I think you fucked this up. Yeah.

While those in positions of power remained skeptical, Aggie Underwood's instinct turned out to be right. A significant number of Californians now aware of the real story behind Eric Madison's death came to see Nellie as what she was, a victim of abuse.

And they started publicly questioning whether it was really right that she received the death penalty given all these extenuating circumstances. Yeah, because it's like nobody's saying that she shouldn't be, you know, you can't murder someone. Yeah, you need to be punished appropriately. Like you need to receive some kind of consequence for that. But the death penalty? It's too far. For self-defense after being abused systematically? Like, no. Exactly. Exactly.

So in the days that followed the publication of Underwood's article, residents across California started a letter-writing campaign to the governor on Nellie's behalf. Damn. Demanding, at the very least, she be considered for commutation. Yeah. Among those who came to support Nellie were the 12 jurors on the case. Holy shit. All of them.

who signed a petition demanding a new trial, and Georgia Madison herself wrote out a 15-page document detailing her identical experience with Eric Madison. Holy shit. Even William Brown, Nellie's ex-husband, came to her defense and filed a petition for a new trial with the Supreme Court, blaming Ryan's quote-unquote egregious conduct and terrible defense for conviction. Yeah.

He wrote, at the time of her trial and sometime afterward, the mind of Nellie Madison bordered on a state of hysteria. She being unable to comprehend the significance of her counsel changing from the proper to the ridiculous. Damn. Unfortunately, the court rejected the petition. Are you fucking kidding me? No.

But by the fall, public consensus was that while she had indeed murdered her husband, Nellie Madison did not deserve to die as a consequence. Despite the public pressure, Governor Merriam had been silent on the issue since the verdict was handed down. But then, in late September, just a couple weeks away from Nellie's execution, Merriam held a press conference where he announced he had decided to quote-unquote spare Mrs. Madison's life. Wow.

The commutation, he insisted, was based purely on the circumstances of her case, and in no way did he want the public to interpret his actions as a, quote, weakening of his support for capital punishment. Okay, don't worry about it. He was like, I'm still a hard ass. I still want to kill people. I want to kill people all the time, but not this one. After the commutation, Nellie was moved from the hospital ward, aka death row, to the women's prison where she was to serve out her life sentence. She still got her life sentence. Damn.

In a press conference a few days later, she sobbed gratefully and expressed a profound appreciation for the people of California. But unfortunately, she soon learned that while it was definitely better than being executed, prison was going to be a tough experience. Particularly for somebody so independent and given to defiance.

According to Kathleen Karn, she grew to dislike the other women, whom she viewed as beneath her socially and intellectually, and she despised the patronizing, condescending attitudes of prison authorities who sought to turn inmates into models of domesticity. Yeah, I didn't think that was going to be good. Yeah, it wasn't going to go great for Nellie. In the years that followed, she focused a lot of her time and attention on her clemency petition. She wrote countless letters to the governor asking for updates on her application, but he never responded.

But when Miriam was replaced by Colbert Olson in 1938, Nellie began directing her letters to him instead and actually eventually started dealing with Olson's lawyer, Stanley Mosk, who always responded, even though there was little he could do to speed up the process. Oh, wow. Stanley.

In 1939, the Advisory Pardon Board rejected Nellie's petition. But just one year later, in 1940, the Tehachapi Board of Trustees recommended that her sentence be reduced to 15 years. Damn. Which made her eligible for parole the following year. Holy shit. In 1941, she was elated to learn that the governor approved her petition for parole.

But that joy soon turned to frustration when the parole process dragged on for two more years until she finally was paroled in March of 1943. Oh, wow. Once out of prison, she changed her name back to a previous iteration and started going by Nellie Brown. Interesting. So to me, I really do kind of like...

lean more towards what Kathleen Karn said about that they both came up with that idea I think they did like I'm sure their relationship had its shit and like that's why they got divorced yeah so but I I do wonder how much was embellished so that a divorce was granted by both of them because she changed her name back to Nellie Brown yeah that's very interesting when she could have just gone by Nellie Moody yeah

And he also played a big part in getting her free. Or at least getting her sentence commuted. But the next year...

One year later, she married again. Oh, Nellie. For a sixth time. Whoa, Nellie. And by all accounts, this last time was the healthiest, most rewarding relationship Nellie ever had. Jeez Louise. It's about time. They remained together until Nellie's death from a stroke in July of 1953 at the age of 58. Oh, she was young. She was young. I mean, think of what she had been through in her life. Yeah.

Years later, when she wrote about the case, Aggie Underwood said she thought Nellie, and this is a quote, she thought Nellie had received the death sentence because she had been married so many times and had no children. So much of that negative attention that she received and the bias toward Nellie Madison seemed to stem from the fact that she just refused to adhere to the standards of society and men. In particular, yeah. In particular, that they had established for women at the time. In the years that followed her case, the justice system

And even society as a whole would undergo a lot of changes in terms of how it viewed women, sort of, and especially women who committed murder. Some changes were positive, obviously. Yeah.

including changes to the expectations and thresholds for prosecution. Thank goodness. However, others, like the imposition of the death penalty, remained controversial. And still remain controversial. And still to this day do. As Carnes pointed out, by the time Madison died in 1953, two women had been executed and two more would be put to death in the next few years. All four were convicted murderers, but none had killed her mate.

And that is the story of Nellie Mae Brown. Brown. Not Madison. That is a truly wild, wild tale. Insane. I have to say, this is one of my favorite cases that I've ever covered. Yeah, this was, I think this one is... Fascinating. I have never heard of this one before.

I had never heard of it either. I think Dave actually suggested this one. Dave. Yeah. Round of applause for Dave.

Because damn. No, this one was really, really interesting. Damn, David. Damn, David. And you see what I mean? Like it had to be really long because there just wasn't anywhere to break that. That needed to be just like run straight through because there's no, if you had ended me somewhere, I would have kicked you in the shin. Yeah. And there just wasn't any way to do it where it would have been like, okay, let's pick back up. Yeah, no. You needed to just blow through. Yeah. It was a steady stream. Too much happening.

It's such a fascinating case and I really hope you guys enjoyed it. Oh my god. Because I did. That was a wild one. And go listen to Gossip Sprite and look out for their episode on Aggie Underwood. You'll get the same kind of like vibe of the time. Yes. But you'll get like a more like There's something. kind of blue vibe to it. Yeah. It's very like da da da. It's very interesting. You know? Yeah. So we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it wild.

But not so weird that you're a defense attorney who goes with a cray-cray strategy, which really shouldn't even be called a strategy at all. That man was so nuts. Don't do that. Don't Joseph Ryan it. Don't Joseph Ryan it. Yeah, no. Yeah. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

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