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There's more to imagine when you listen. I just got to the end of My Best Friend's Exorcism, which is the title we're going to be discussing on the Weirdos Audio Book Club. By the way, that's going to be on August 30th, just so you know. And oh my God, my heartstrings have been
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Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Alayna. And this is Morbid. This is Morbid. This is Morbid? This is Morbid. Oh, it's Morbid. It's Morbid. And guess what? We did another TikTok. Hey! And it was really funny. It was a fun one. We used our girl, Kale Lowrys. We did, and it was awesome. You know, name and likeness or whatever it is. Yeah, and you guys have been hilarious about it, so thanks for...
For supporting our TikTok journey with my book. Shouldn't be outside enjoying the sunlight. Should be in a cave. What an unhinged thing to say to a human being. Truly hilarious. I think even Kale would agree that that's fucking hilarious. But like,
Whoa. Yeah. How does your brain just say to another person? It's so calm. You should be in a cave. You should be in a cave. Yeah. What? I love it. I think it's hilarious. And I love her reaction because she's just like, what? What the fuck are you talking about? It's so good. But that TikTok was really fun to film. Yeah, you guys have been amazing about it. So thanks for being so great. What's your TikTok handle, you bitch? Uh.
What is it? I think it's Elena to the Max. My everything is Elena to the Max. You gotta let the people know every time. It's how we're gonna drive the new people to your TikToks. You know? I am a millennial. And we'll be doing more as September 17th approaches, which is the day that the book comes out, The Butcher Game.
the butchergame.com if you need to order something you could pre-order it it might come the day before who knows that's always fun and like more signed copies might be happening maybe right who knows you never know the world is an oyster and it's yours and it's my oyster yeah no theirs no well it's all of ours yeah everybody's oyster we can all have a part unless you have a shellfish allergy i actually don't like shellfish so it's my like meatball sub i would say i have to tell you something
I told you I was never going to eat oysters again. I ate them. Vibrio. I ate them. But I'm only eating them in places where, like, I feel like the water is super fresh.
It's a vibe. Vibrio is also a vibe. No, vibrio is actually not a vibe. It's a vibe. It's some kind of vibe. Vibrio is a dang dark place. I'm with fire, my friend. I know. YOLO. You know, here we are, but YOLO. YOLO, as the kids would say. I don't think they say that anymore. I almost said YOLO. YOLO? I accidentally said YOLO. YOLO.
Yeah, you lady-like warts. Here we are. I don't know. I have an interesting case today to tell you all about. Do you? I do. It's kind of like not really like... Well, that's not true. I was going to say it's not like anything. It's not like anything we've ever done before. It's totally different. But it's not. It's sort of. It's like in a different wheelhouse, but it's still our wheelhouse, I feel. All right. It's a kidnapping, I'd like to warn you, at the top of the show. Okay. So it's a little bit intense. Okay. Okay.
I'm going to also tell you it has a happy ending. Oh, good. Okay. And nobody dies. There's no murder. Look at that. Yeah. So that's good. Wow, that is different. So here we are. It is. Different wheelhouse. All right. So should we dive in? Let's dive in. It's been a long time since I did that. And it just came to me. It did. All right. So we're going to be talking about the disappearance of Delamar Vera.
Delamar Vera was born December 5th, 1997. So like we're about the same age. Look at that. I think it's pronounced Luce. I looked it up. Cuevas and Pedro Vera, a young couple. They were living in Feltonville, North Philadelphia. Luce was beyond excitable. Here we go. Excitable. Excitable.
Luz was beyond excited about the arrival of her baby daughter, but she always maintained her then-husband, Pedro, hadn't been super stoked about the prospect of having children. He was like, yeah, woohoo. According to her, not super excited. That's not great. In fact, according to her, when the baby was born, Pedro actually refused to sign the birth certificate, which she pointed to as evidence that he, quote, did not want the child.
I think that's pretty glaring evidence, I would say. Yeah. I'm like, I don't love that. That's really sad. I know. But a little more than a week later, on December 15th, Luz was home with Pedro, their new baby Delamar, which I think is such a pretty name. Yeah. And their two sons, who at that time were four and five. And around 7 p.m., there was a knock on the door. And Luz answered it to find a woman who she'd never met before standing on her doorstep.
The woman, Carolyn Carrera, was actually Pedro's cousin by marriage. She was from New Jersey. And she said she was there hoping that Pedro might take a look at her car. She said her car was having brake problems. Pedro was like good with car stuff. So she kind of just showed up from New Jersey and said, hey, take a look at my brakes. Okay. Random. Yeah. Unexpected. This is why they don't answer the door.
Oh, I never answered the door. No, I literally never answered the door. Even when it's people I'm expecting, I send Drew. He said, nope. Can you get the door, please? Oh, yeah. I don't even answer the door then. Yeah. Nope. Nope. But Pedro agreed to take a look at the car. But before he did, he said he needed to run some errands and go grocery shopping. So while he was out, the two women remained at the house just kind of making small talk because remember, they don't know each other. So yeah, it's like a pretty awkward situation. But she's kind of family. Like she's family. So yeah.
She loses trying to like be a good entertainer. I'd be like, sorry. But she said later on she would describe it as an uncomfortable conversation. Yeah, I can imagine. And also having just given birth a little over a week earlier, I don't think you'd really want to be entertaining by yourself. No, you don't.
But because she had just given birth only a week earlier or like a little more than a week earlier, the subject of a baby came up naturally. And this woman, Carolyn, mentioned that she and her boyfriend, Andrea Moore, had also just recently had a baby. She said, same sister.
Wow. Now, as the women were chatting downstairs, Lou suddenly heard a loud bang upstairs that sounded like an explosion and the baby sleeping upstairs. What the fuck? So she is all obviously terrified and she runs upstairs and goes into Delamar's room.
But by the time she reached the room, a small fire had broken out and the room was beginning to fill with smoke. Holy shit. Now, despite the large amount of smoke now and the fumes just rapidly filling the room, Luce was able to get to the crib. She was completely determined to get there and got there.
But Delamar was nowhere to be seen. What the fuck? She was gone. In her own room? Yep. She had just been sleeping in her room. And then she heard a loud bang and the baby was gone by the time she got to the crib. That's everyone's worst nightmare. And it's also just like, how did this happen? She was upstairs and I've been downstairs this whole time. Yeah. Where's the baby? Yeah.
So a few seconds later, the smoke had become unbearable and Luz was forced out of the room. After catching her breath, she tried again to go back in the room and get to the crib. Wow. She actually suffered burns to her face and her arms, but...
When she reached the crib, her first impression was confirmed. There was definitely no baby in that crib. What the fuck? No, she also noticed that the window in the room was open and she knew that there was no way she would have done that herself. No. Just one, having the baby in the room by herself, she wasn't going to open the window. But also it was a cold night, so it just wouldn't have been something that she'd do.
So this was shocking. But the fire had grown out of control at that point. And she didn't have time to think because also she had other children that she had to get to. Oh, yeah. She has a four and five year old baby. So they were forced outside. And this is heartbreaking. Neighbors just could hear her screaming, my baby, my baby. Oh, God. Over and over again.
So hearing the noise and seeing the smoke and fire from the house, coming from the house, a neighbor, 20-year-old Jose Rosario, rushed over and tried to get into the house to save the baby. Later, he told journalists that he heard crying. So covering his face, he tried to climb the stairs to get to the baby, but the smoke was so thick, he just couldn't get in there. He said, I tried the best I could, but the smoke was choking me.
Other neighbors also tried to help, like Chico Frazon, who tried to douse the house with his garden hose, but it just, the fire was out of control. A garden hose wasn't going to do anything. He told a reporter the flames were just too much.
So firefighters arrived at the scene quickly and they pushed back what was now a really big crowd. And they were all just, the crowd was shouting like, save the baby, save the baby. Oh man. Frazon remembered the neighbors were outside yelling, there's a baby in there. There's a baby. And Luce also reported to the firefighters that she had gone to her daughter's room when the fire first broke out, but that she had found no baby in the crib where she had expected her baby Delamar to be.
That's horrifying. Now, there's no documentation of how firefighters responded to the claims, but it's pretty clear from their later statements that they didn't believe Luce at the time. Why the fuck would she say that? I don't really know. Within about 10 minutes, firefighters had things under control, luckily, and the fire was extinguished. But the small row house had been completely gutted, and there was no sign of little Delamar.
Now, just then, Pedro returned to find the house destroyed, his wife being packed into an ambulance, and he found out that his daughter was consumed by the fire. That's what firefighters told him. Holy shit. Yeah. Delamar ended up being declared dead at the scene, and fire officials explained to Pedro that they found no body because her remains were completely destroyed by the flames. Now...
Just up front, that is not what happened. So don't think for a second that that's what happened. But that's what this family was told. Holy shit. But they never believed it.
Wow. Pedro didn't believe it and neither did Luce. Wow. So the next day, fire captain Henry Dulberry told the press the fire was caused by a home-rigged extension cord connected to a space heater, which must have thrown a spark at some point and started the fire. Oh, man. Neighbor Gloria Mojica said it's a shame because they were just trying to find a way to keep themselves warm. Yeah. Luce was discharged from Temple University Hospital just one day after the fire.
And she learned that not only were there no remains to bury, but also that as a result of there not being a body, the medical examiner actually couldn't issue a death certificate or even legally declare Delamar dead. Holy shit. So like firefighters, first responders said like declare their dead at the scene, but they couldn't legally do that. Like firefighters could. Yeah. But they couldn't have it on record. Like official record. Exactly. Exactly.
And if the parents wanted or needed that formality, they were going to have to go and petition a court. To get their child declared legally dead. Yeah. When they don't know that for sure. Exactly. Wow. So the family was understandably devastated. Yeah. But they didn't really have a lot of choice but to move on and try to make things the best they could for their two living children. Yeah.
So they moved to a new house, and in 1999, Luce gave birth to a fourth child, a boy that they named Samuel. They felt happy about adding to their family, obviously, but the loss of a child took a really heavy toll on them. Of course. And in December of 2022, or excuse me, 2002, Luce and Pedro separated for good. That's so common. It is. When you lose a child. When you lose a child and just like grief in general. Yeah. That can tear people apart. Yeah.
And by that time, they really just agreed on very little and their communication was just, it had gotten really bad. But they did agree on one thing. They both believed that Delamar was still alive. In 2004, Lou said, I always knew that my daughter did not die in that fire. They were actually both very public about their beliefs. Gloria Mojica recalled, every time I'd see Pedro, he'd say the same thing. My baby's alive. I know it. Wow. They just like,
like felt it in their hearts. And it's like you can see how like the whole thing changed his perspective on. Yeah. Like being a father with this child. You know what I mean? Like you can tell he immediately was like, that's my baby. That's my baby. And my baby's alive. It's like a very cliche thing to say, but you don't know what you have till it's gone. Yeah. You know, it's like his obviously he was like, that's my child. Mm hmm. And
They were correct, it sounds like. So it's like they both have that parent connection. Definitely. Now, Pedro wasn't just convinced that his daughter was alive, but he was also determined to find her wherever she had gone. Hell yeah, Pedro. I know. Let's go. Mojica said he would tell me he was pursuing it, though what exactly that meant, how he was pursuing it remains unclear. But you know what? He had intentions too. Yeah.
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Listening on Audible helps your imagination soar. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice, any genre you love, you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities, new ways of thinking. Find genres you love and discover new ones along the way. Explore bestsellers, new releases, plus thousands of included audiobooks and originals that members can listen to all they want with more added all the time. Audible makes it easy to be inspired and entertained as part of your daily routine without needing to set aside any extra time.
There's more to imagine when you listen. I just finished listening to Local Woman Missing and it was really cool because it's like multiple points of view and there was different actors for each voice and oh my goodness, it was a very cool listening experience. I recommend it. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog, including latest bestsellers and new releases. I don't know why I got British.
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So on January 24th, 2004, Luce went to a family party thrown by Pedro's sister, Evelyn, where she spotted a young girl who looked to be about six years old. According to Luce, the girl, quote, bore a striking resemblance to herself and her other children. Luce, like we said, never believed Delamar died in the fire. So when she saw the child, she instantly felt that it was Delamar. Holy shit. And she's just at a family party. And at a family party. Mm-hmm.
That feeling became even stronger when she realized that the girl's mother was Carolyn Correa. I think it's Correa. I didn't trust this lady the second you said she showed up at the door. She just showed up at the door from New Jersey randomly and was like, hey, my brakes are fucked up. I didn't want to say it for fear that, like, she was an innocent bystander here. She's not. So I was keeping it inside, but I was like, I don't know about this girl. Imagine...
Like, don't you imagine this, but listen. No, I will not. Imagine your child goes missing from your home while a weird stranger is there. And then you go to a family party and you see what you know is your child or like very, very strongly believe is your child. And the lady who you had a weird feeling about already is claiming to be the mother. No. Or is the lady that took this child to the party. No. Like,
you dealt or luce must have felt like she was in an alternate fucking universe and the the feeling of like helplessness at first must have been unreal because it's like what do i do when everyone's gonna think i sound cuckoo nuts bananas and it's like if you know that's your child you're like well i'm gonna burn the i'm gonna like scorch the earth to get this child back so like
I guess let's fucking go. Like that would be my, I'd be like, let's go. Let's go. Let's fucking go. Like I'm going to burn the whole place down. I would. Like I'm getting that kid back. Well, don't you worry. Luce is the baddest bitch in the game. I knew it about Luce. So Carolyn introduced this girl as Aaliyah.
Was like, this is my daughter, Aaliyah. But Luz just couldn't shake the feeling that not Aaliyah, this was her daughter, Delamar. Oh, my God. And she was like, she started putting two and two together. And she's like, I don't know how, but somehow Carolyn kidnapped my baby on the night of the fire. Like, I just know it in my heart. She kept her distracted downstairs. Yeah.
She later told a reporter, those dimples were all the DNA I needed to be certain. Because she had these cute little dimples. That is some mama shit. Yeah. She had that child for like a little over a week. Literally a little over a week. Like that's like, like luckily, like luckily many of us do not have to worry about like what, how you would be able to identify your child older when not seeing them for their entire life. But hearing this, you're just like, damn. Like that parent like look.
love and knowledge for your like who your child is yeah that's unbelievable it's a force it's a little over a week you knew this infant newborn yeah and then you see them years later and you're like that's my kid and like let's be real most newborns look alike like exactly newborns all look pretty similar but
That's unbelievable. Yeah. That's really unbelievable. This family is iconic. Yeah, they're incredible. So according to Pedro's cousin, Jose Vera, this was actually not the first time either Pedro or Luz had seen Aaliyah. And while they weren't exactly close with Carolyn, they were still related and had some contact with her over the years, but not much.
But Jose Vera said they agreed the child looked like them and Pedro always thought it was his daughter, but nothing ever happened until now. Oh, damn. So he claimed that although Pedro had seen the girl in person at family functions, Luz had only ever seen her in photographs before this family function where she's like, that's my daughter. That's my child. And she really didn't have a lot of contact with the family since ending her relationship with Pedro in 2002. Okay.
but still they both together reported their suspicions to the police and nothing ever came of the complaints like from seeing the photographs and that kind of thing. But now in 2004 with the girl just standing right in front of her, Luce was like,
Without a doubt, 100% my daughter. I definitely thought so before, but now I know. But now I'm in front of her. I'm in her presence. I know it. And she actually told the host of the party that she believed Aaliyah was Delamar. But given the unbelievable nature of the claim, the host just kind of dismissed what she was saying and was like, no, no, no, that's Carolyn's daughter. You must be mistaken. And probably felt bad. Yeah, like that I have to tell you, like...
I'm sorry, no, that's Carolyn's daughter. Right. But Luz's own brother even doubted what she was saying and said, we thought she was just traumatized by the fire. Which like... You can understand that. Yeah, because it's like that would be traumatizing. I can't even fathom the amount of trauma she would have. Absolutely. And she didn't have.
I'm sure. And trauma makes you do some things that, you know, you wouldn't normally do or like makes you think things. Yeah. She's desperate to find her child again. So maybe this is one of those instances where it's like she's just desperate. Or maybe not. Or maybe not. So later that afternoon, Luz was like, okay, you guys can all think I'm cuckoo nuts bananas, but I'm not. And I'm going to prove it to all of you. She's like, nope. So she approached the girl, the little girl, and just made small talk with her.
And then right before Aaliyah was about to run off, Luz told her, oh, you have some gum in your hair. Like, let me help you with that. And while she removed the gum. Shut up. Or like while she pretended to remove the gum, she used it as an opportunity to get a hair sample that she could take to the police for DNA testing. Luz is a fucking icon. When I said baddest bitch in the game, I meant it. Luz.
I want to, like, shake Luce's hand. I want to high-five her. Holy shit, Luce. That is genius level. She's so nonchalant about it, too. She told reporters later, because of TV, I knew they needed hair for the DNA. Oh, bitch. Like, Luce is top-notch. She's like, I just watch TV. I learned some shit. That's elite. That's elite behavior, Luce. And...
And also that's elite behavior because you did nothing to scare this girl. And that's a mama. And nothing to inform her that her, you know, anything was being called into question. Like, that's unbelievable. Unbelievable. Truly unbelievable. Because your first instinct might be to just like, you know, like, again, you're traumatized. You're desperate to find your child. Yeah. Yeah.
You would want to run up to her and just be like, you're my baby. I'm taking you with me. But this child clearly was gone before.
a week after her birth. Whoever mother, quote unquote, she thinks is her mother, that's the only mother she's known. That's the thing. She's six years old. She's been raised for six years by Carolyn. You can't scare her. You can't make her question her whole upbringing. You don't know what kind of life she's had. You don't know anything about that. So it's like, you can't just run up to her and be like, I think you're my kid. Of course not. She's going to be like, what?
So doing that in such a way that is one, brilliant, and two, totally nonchalant and not upsetting to that girl at all is like...
Mama. Mama shit. Well done, Luce. So a few days after the party, Luce brought the Harris to her local Philadelphia police precinct to ask for help, and they redirected her to a lab where she could actually get the DNA testing done. Hell yeah. According to the official story, remember, Delamar Vera had died in a tragic fire, and police never believed she was kidnapped, so there was actually little they could have done to help her at the time.
According to Representative Angel Cruz, who would eventually prove instrumental in solving this case, the language barrier between Luce, who spoke very little English, and law enforcement might have caused additional confusion and prevented faster action. I'm sure. So Luce had hoped to get the DNA test
done to prove that Aaliyah was her daughter, but with limited English language skills, no information about how to access laboratory testing, and of course, little financial resources. That kind of thing is so expensive. Yeah. The chances that she would get answers were pretty slim.
But after hearing her story, though, a neighbor suggested that Luce seek help from Representative Angel Cruz, who represented the largely Latino Philadelphia neighborhood that Luce was living in at the time. Cruz said, I must admit, when Luce first came to me with this story, I had trouble believing her. I mean, it's an incredible story. It is. Yeah. But something in the story struck him as being true, so he agreed to speak with law enforcement on her behalf and explain what she had told him. He was like,
I don't know, but I'll try. Hell yeah, Cruz. Now, when the fire first broke out in Pedro and Luz's home in 1997, her instinct was to run to the daughter's room and save her. Yeah. It's worth noting she had been alerted to the danger because of the loud bang. Yeah. Not the fire itself, which hadn't broken out yet by the time she reached the room. Huh. And when she reached the crib, Delamar had already vanished completely.
And then the fire began. Yeah. That's the thing. Like when I was first telling that story, you heard loud bang runs upstairs, fire
that the crib is empty and then the room starts filling with smoke and the fire breaks out. I was wondering, because I'm like, what is this loud bang? Like, what happened here? Exactly. And you could assume like, oh, that was the space heater exploding. When you said that, I was like, oh, that must have been it. But who knows? Maybe it was somebody opening the window. Maybe it was a ladder being thrown on the side of the house. I don't know. Yeah. So all that to say, though, when Luce reported to fire officials that her daughter was missing, she meant that the girl hadn't been in the house when the fire began. But
But as Angel Cruz pointed out, it's entirely possible that because of that language barrier, investigators just thought that she meant her daughter was trapped in the house during the fire. Absolutely, I can see that. Which you understand that, of course. Any claims Luce and Pedro made after the fire were just dismissed as those of grieving parents struggling to accept what had happened. Yeah, just not being willing to... And also, when Luce initially took the lock of hair to the police, she brought it to the front desk of the precinct because...
How would she know to bring it in? I wouldn't know what to do with it. But the receiving officer had no prior knowledge of the case, and there wasn't any kind of translator there to help with the barrier, the language barrier. Oh, man. So she wasn't able to really convey how important this was and what the background here was. Yeah. That's so frustrating. Yeah, it is.
So to Angel Cruz, who spoke fluent Spanish, the story, like we said, was equally unbelievable. And his instinct, though, was to respond exactly how law enforcement agents had over the years. But the fact that Luz had never wavered in her belief and she was so thoroughly convinced that the girl was her daughter seemed good enough a reason to him to at least follow up. Yeah. So he contacted the police on her behalf and he was successfully able to convince them to follow up on this claim.
Another goodie. I know. This is full. That's what I told you. Chock full. It started off and you're like, what the fuck are you about to tell me? What is going on? But I'm like, no, it's a good story. Yeah. Like, I promise you. I promise you guys. This just keeps going up and up and up. It does. And it will. Yeah. So given the details of the crime and the age of the alleged victim, the case was handed over to Lieutenant Michael Boyle of Philadelphia Special Victims Unit, an episode of SVU, if you will. Yeah.
In late February, detectives and agents from Child Protective Services went to Carolyn's home in New Jersey and explained the situation. Now, given that so much depended on the outcome of the DNA tests, Aaliyah was actually removed from the home and temporarily placed in a foster care while investigators tried to untangle the details of the case. It's like...
That's so sad. And she's probably, remember, like we said, this is the only mom she's ever known. Yeah, and she has no idea what's going on. And she's a little girl. She's probably like, what the, like, what is going on? Yeah, and it's like, and again, like, this is all because somebody stole her. And it's like, Luce is just trying to get her back. And obviously they have to go through this.
the steps the proper steps to do they can't just rip her out of a home and be like well she's yours now like you know what i mean like they could get in trouble for that like that's necessary but like man this kid didn't ask for any of this no and she's and poor luce and pedro didn't ask for any of this carolyn like just victimized everybody she did she victimized that child yeah exactly just to get something she wanted yeah
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So
So according to Carolyn, she had given birth to her daughter, Aaliyah, in December of 1997. No, you didn't. Right around the same time that Luce had her baby. Oh, wow. In fact, other family members and her own boyfriend at the time remembered her being pregnant and coming home with a baby at the end of December. Despite the number of times that Pager had voiced his suspicions, nobody ever thought to question Carolyn and her boyfriend's claims because why would you ever be like... What would make you do it? You know, that's the thing.
That's the thing. Now, after all, while newborn babies do get kidnapped, it's complicated.
kind of a rare occurrence. Yeah, I mean, that's not the first thing you're thinking, that these people staged a wild coup to steal your newborn. And not only that, like, I'm talking about, like, their own family. Few people would want to believe their own relatives capable of this. No. Can you imagine thinking of that? No. Like, in your own family? No. That somebody in your own family stole another person's baby in your own family? Absolutely not. Out of their crib?
After starting a fire in their house? It's so beyond. But this time, through Luce's insistence and the new hair evidence and pending DNA results...
It was compelling enough that at least a few members of law enforcement were starting to really take this seriously. Hell yeah, let's go, everybody. At first, everybody's like, yeah, we'll follow up, but like, I don't know. It was a case of let's fucking go. And now it's like, let's fucking go. Exactly. So in late February, the results of the DNA test conducted on Aaliyah's hair came back and provided vital answers. The girl that Carolyn had been passing off as her daughter Aaliyah for the past six years...
Nope. That was Della Marvera. Fuck Carolyn. Yeah. Fuck Carolyn. Well... What the fuck? With the results in hand, Lieutenant Boyle and his partner returned to Carolyn's home in New Jersey to confront her...
But by the time they got there, she had already fled, leaving her three other young children behind. Oh, it's on site with Carolyn. On site. Like, fuck you, Carolyn. What an asshole. That's the thing. It's like, she's just out for her and hers. You're evil. Not even hers. You stole someone's newborn, you fucking asshole. And then you abandoned your three other children to flee law enforcement after you got caught? It's fucked to steal any newborn. Like, don't keep it that weird.
To steal a newborn child from your family? It's... What? Like, I know you married into this family, but that's your family. Like, who the fuck are you, Carolyn? I hope... Mm-hmm. I hope we see something for Carolyn at the end of this. Well, investigators, now that she was on the run, theorized that certain she'd been found out and would be arrested, she chose to become a fugitive rather than face the consequences. Oh, you mean coward. Yes, exactly. Because...
I mean, everything more or less confirmed her guilt in the eyes of detectives. DNA just proved it. You stole a baby. So in a statement to the press, a law enforcement official stated their belief that on the night of December 15th, 1997, Caroline started the fire and kidnapped Delamar, whom she passed off as her own daughter.
Wow. And when they realized that she had fled, multiple arrest warrants were issued for charges including arson, kidnapping, and concealing the whereabouts of a child. So she was facing like serious, serious charges here. Yeah. Not just kidnapping, like that's a serious charge in and of itself. But arson. Arson and concealing the whereabouts of a child. Yeah. Like, did you not think about that?
this? Yeah, she did. I don't know. Yeah, she didn't care. Despite the circumstances, though, Luce couldn't help but feel joy that her daughter wasn't only alive, but would also be reunited with her in the days to come. Yeah. Boyle told reporters she sat there and shook and cried and kept saying, thank you, thank you, thank you. But this is going to be tough. Absolutely. This kid is six years old. That's the thing. On the other not so bright side of things, this was just the beginning of a super
slow and like you said very difficult process facing everybody involved most importantly alia or really delamar had only ever known carolyn to be her mother like we've said and she was now being told that not only was carolyn not her mother but carolyn was her kidnapper who had stolen her from her actual mother just days after her birth
A concept that no fucking six-year-old would ever be able to wrap their head around. You can't even imagine a grown adult finding that out. No. A teenager finding that out. How do you explain that to a six-year-old?
Like, without creating, like, first of all, creating so many new fears. Yeah, that they were kidnapped out of their crib. Disillusioning their entire world. Like, that just, that's a glass shatter on your entire world. And now you have to reform that bond with that child. Like, you're going to have a natural something's there, because obviously you knew that was your child. Like, your bond is strong. It's in there. But she's, like, she's probably going to miss Carolyn and, like, feel kind of weird about it. Yeah, because that's all she's ever known. But...
There's so many layers that you could point out here. I just feel so bad for... I feel so bad for... Because she goes by Aaliyah. She ends up going by Aaliyah. Because that's what she's been known as. That makes sense. And also, like, how...
Like, that's a pretty big thing of Luce and Pedro to do, to be like, you know what? We'll keep your name Aliyah. Like, your kidnapper named you that, but that's all you know, and we're not going to... And we're not going to change your name. Yeah. You know what I mean? That's huge. I wouldn't even change, like, a puppy's name. No. You know what I mean? And it's like...
And also, like you said, your kidnapper named you that. Right. And also it's like I named you something. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like I named you Delamar. Like that was the name I chose for you. It's almost like a...
I can't call you that. It's like a different thing to grieve. Yeah. Like luckily your child is still alive and healthy and you get to have her back. But you're grieving that identity that you created for them when they were born. Exactly. So that's a lot on everybody. Yeah. And the other thing was further complicating matters, which were already insanely complicated like we're pointing out now. Yeah.
Lou spoke very little English and Aaliyah spoke no Spanish. So their ability to communicate with each other, at least initially, required a translator and the services of a professional social worker.
So it's all very like, I'm sure they did their best to make it like not as clinical as it had to be. But that's tough. But still, that's like not a setting any six-year-old is going to be super open in. So Carolyn did all this and also took her out of her culture and didn't teach her the language that she would have been taught. Yep.
Wow. Yep. Wow, Carolyn. Wow. Unreal. Now, shortly after the discovery of all this, Carolyn, accompanied by her attorney, turned herself in to the authorities in Philadelphia. Good, as you should. The arrest was a welcome news to Lucid, her family, and Pedro. Yeah.
she told a reporter if she was so evil then and started a fire she could do that now with the kids inside yes absolutely that's the other thing she could have killed her other two children with that fire absolutely and she had no fucking what i was just gonna she didn't give a shit and also she abandoned her other kids to run away from this yeah exactly fuck her now detectives in philadelphia were equally pleased with carolyn's surrender
With Captain John Darby saying, Me too. Same.
Now, while the arrest appeared to be the beginning of the end of the police involvement in the case, it also raised just as many questions as it answered. Because to those who knew her, the arrest and allegations of a kidnapping seemed 100% impossible. Evelyn Vera, Pedro's sister, said the rest of the family wasn't surprised when Carolyn showed up with a baby in December because they had all believed that she had been pregnant.
Wow. In fact, in early January 1998, a few weeks after the fire, she went to the police station in New Jersey, in Willingboro, and reported that she had given birth at home, a
A bizarre incident they now believe was intended to cover her tracks, should there be any suspicion. Holy shit. Because obviously she hadn't given birth anywhere. Like she's not, there's no records of her having given birth in a hospital. So she was like, oh, I have to do, like she researched this somehow. Yeah, she figured out that she had to go report this, that she quote unquote gave birth at home so that there would be record of it. And also. Damn, that's cunning as fuck. That's the thing. It's.
That's really fucked up. And the fact that everybody believes she was pregnant, like she had to have been showing. Yeah. It's like, what? Hello? What's going on here? Now, when it came to Aaliyah, there was some tension between the two of them. But for the most part, everybody remembered that Carolyn doted on the girl. Evelyn Vera said she treated that little girl better than her three other kids. That's fucked up. That's also fucked up. I'm glad she treated her well, but I'm sorry for those other three children. Yeah.
Aaliyah was enrolled in private school, and although she was just six years old, she had already begun a modeling career, appearing in television and print ads, which also, you're just flaunting her. You know what I mean? There's so many layers there that I'm... Like, the psychology... But in this... I'm not saying anything about, like, kids modeling. I'm saying in this specific case, you kidnapped this child, and now she's appearing in television ads, and you're like, oh, like, that's my baby. Yeah. Yeah.
The fucking pathology and the psychology behind that, you could spend years studying. Yep.
What? And it's like, that's definitely you just living through this child and wanting to get the like, pats on the back for like, look at my pretty little girl in a modeling ad. Just like dangling her in front of the people who are like, I'm pretty sure that's my kid. Yeah. Like, that's the that's the aspect that I'm looking at. Like, what? When they said she's evil, they are 100% correct. This woman is evil. Like that's diabolical. Yeah.
Now, what made the story even stranger was that there were many members of the Vera family who not only knew of Pedro and Luz's belief that their daughter was still alive, but several of them, like a lot of people didn't believe it, but several family members did believe that Carolyn's daughter was actually Delamar. Wow. Jose Vera said, we told my cousin Pedro about it, but nothing ever happened. Nothing was done. I don't know why.
Because what do you do? And it's because they did report certain things to the police. But the police were like, we don't have any fucking evidence. Yeah. They were like, that's crazy. And there was language barriers. There was so many things. Doesn't seem like it was like top of the to-do list for the police at the time. No, it don't even seem that way. Until Luce came in there with the hair. Yeah. My girl Luce. And then Cruz was like, I'll take care of this. Exactly. Now, even Carolyn's boyfriend at the time was actually suspicious of her story. Yeah.
In 1999, he confronted Carolyn about his suspicions and demanded to take a paternity test to prove whether the child was his or not. And at that point, she broke up with him and never had any contact with him after that. You wish that... And I understand, like, this is, you know, a position none of us can imagine being in. But I wish that he, once she had broken up with him, he had gone to police and been like...
I think this kid was stolen. I think this kid was kidnapped. I don't think this kid is hers. But again, I can't imagine being in his position thinking that of your significant other. And honestly, he might have. I didn't come across that. But like Pedro and Luz had gone to the police with suspicions. And honestly, if that guy did too, then like kudos to him. And I'm sorry it didn't work out. I know. But even if he didn't, I'm like, I can't imagine that position. So...
But you just wish like thinking back. Because also you probably like if you're having those suspicions and then she breaks up with you all of a sudden that pretty much confirms it. But then you must sit there with your own thoughts and say, no, I'm insane. Yeah. There's no way. And I'm claiming this kid is not mine. Like that's why am I thinking that? You know, like. Yeah. There's a lot of layers to that. A lot of guilt.
Right. And having truly believed Carolyn to have been pregnant at the time, the breakup also left him with troubling unanswered questions. He said, my question is, where is the child she and I had together? It's a traumatic experience. Oh, I can't imagine. Because he thought she had been pregnant with his baby. And then she's got this child and he's like, I don't think this is our child. Right.
And she's like, well, fuck you, and just breaks up with him and cuts off contact. It's like... Because now he's probably thinking, like, is that my child? And I can't see them now? Like, what the fuck? And now I'm feeling some layer of guilt because, like, I questioned... But now I still don't believe that's my kid? Like, what happened to my child that I thought you were pregnant with? It's wild. This woman fucked so many people up. She did. And it's a whole family. Ooh.
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If some members of the family were stunned by the revelation that Aaliyah was Delamar, there were others who were less surprised by the news. After all, this actually wasn't the first time Carolyn had been in trouble with the law. I'm shocked. Or the first time she'd made up a wild story to explain away someone's suspicions. In 1996, she had actually been arrested and charged with starting a fire at a New Jersey medical office where she'd been working as a billing clerk. According to the
According to police, Carolyn had been stealing business checks and cashing them. But when she believed her boss had caught on to what she was doing, she, quote, tried to destroy evidence by setting fire to the office. Wow, Carolyn. Once an arsonist, always an arsonist. Yeah.
Also, there were people still inside the building at the time she set the fire. Oh, she doesn't care about killing people. Like, she doesn't care. No. As long as she's getting what she wants out of it. Like, it's pure luck that she hasn't. Yeah. That I've heard from you yet.
Carolyn's out for Carolyn and Carolyn only. Yeah, she doesn't give a shit. But because there was people in the building at the time she set the fire, she was charged with aggravated arson. As she should be. In addition to the fraud and theft charges. But she agreed to plead guilty to a third degree charge in exchange for probation and community service. I'm sorry. If someone tries to burn down a building with people inside of it, that's attempted murder. Also...
Let me tell you, if I was in that motherfucking office at the time that she had set it ablaze and I found out that she got probation... In community service. I would be through the fucking roof. I'd be calling everybody. That seems...
really wild to me like that's not enough and also but wait there's more that's what this story should be titled but wait there's more it was also not the only time carolyn had claimed to be pregnant when she wasn't oh you don't say in 2000 while working at a drug store she told multiple co-workers that she was pregnant even though she never showed any physical signs of being pregnant
That fall, she took maternity leave. And when she returned to work and trigger warning, she says something terrible. She claimed that the baby was stillborn and even went so far as to show several of her co-workers a photograph of a dead newborn.
I don't even know how to respond to that. Her boss said, it was kind of gruesome. I really didn't know what to say to her. She didn't have a stillborn. Carolyn is one of the grossest people I've heard of. Like that's, she's gross. Unreal. That's unbelievable.
This case, obviously, whenever a child that is presumed to have been missing for many, many years is recovered, it's remarkable. But in this case, the most unbelievable part of it probably was Carolyn's version of events that led to her taking on the role of Aaliyah's mother. According to her, she did go to Pedro and Luce's home on December 15th, 1997, where she was taken to a hospital.
But she didn't kidnap Delamar. She said Pedro handed the girl over for a few inexplicable reasons, and she never had any idea why he did that. In a 2005 interview, she said, I've thought about it. Why didn't I question it? Yeah, but it made my emptiness go away. So she just never questioned his actions. And you know that baby had a mother that you were sitting talking to downstairs? Yeah.
It filled your emptiness, though, to steal her newborn. Yeah, totally. Yeah, definitely. Okay, that makes sense. That makes it fine. Also, that just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It's fine. If her story seemed entirely implausible, it only got stranger from there.
She also claimed that Luce had not only known the truth about her daughter all along, but actually she had been there when Pedro handed the baby over after the fire broke out. And as evidence that she was telling the truth, she pointed to the number of times that Pedro had visited her and her family at their home in New Jersey, including one occasion when she said he was accompanied by Luce.
She said, why is it that Pedro is not arrested? I didn't do this by myself. And he gave me the child. Why didn't he get the kid before? If he would have come to me and got her, it wouldn't hurt me as bad as it's hurting me now.
Here's the thing, too. The statement that she just made that says, why didn't he get the kid before? Yeah. You don't love that kid. No. The kid. You don't refer to your kid as the kid. Why didn't he get the kid? I've never referred to my kid. Like, why didn't you go get the kid over there? It's like, what? No, I don't believe shit all that you're saying. Like we said, Carolyn's out for Carolyn. Yeah.
While authorities never believed that Pedro Vera was involved in his daughter's kidnapping, the charges against Carolyn did allege that she had not acted alone. Yeah. But the documents only named an unnamed conspirator and no additional arrests were ever made. That's horrifying. But that's what I'm wondering. She was downstairs distracting Luce. Luce. Exactly. Somebody came in that room and stole that child for her. Like she was involved, obviously, but like she,
She didn't do the act herself. Right. I'm sure somebody else was involved in that. What the fuck was that? Isn't that interesting that the person is only referred to as an unnamed conspirator? Because it's like, who is this person that would go into a nursery and steal a newborn out of a window? Also, they had to have a really compelling story to be unnamed in all of this. No, that's wild. Yeah, it's weird.
But in 2005, Pedro's lawyer, Mike Luber, told reporters, this woman who is obviously a pathological, this is a woman who is obviously a pathological liar. She has significant mental problems. Two of the psychiatrists have said she is mentally imbalanced and she obviously will say anything to do anything to avoid the music, so to speak. Yeah, she abandoned her children too. He said the one thing she hasn't said is the truth, who the real conspirator is. That's,
That's so weird. Isn't that weird? That's so weird. And I just, there's not enough information about the case to point fingers. Obviously, I'm not going to point fingers. Yeah, you're not going to speculate. Like, I wish I could speculate on my own. Yeah. But there's not enough. There's just not enough. For her part, Carolyn has always stuck to her story and maintained her innocence. She said, I feel it's unfair. I raised her for six years. And instead of saying, I want my child back, saying, this woman kidnapped my kid. Well, I didn't. I'm.
That's Carolyn? Yeah. Who's saying? It's unfair. I raised her. Instead of saying, I want my child back, saying, this woman kidnapped my kid. Because she's saying they should have said, like, I want my kid back because I gave my kid to you voluntarily, and now I want it back. Wow. And she's like,
Instead, they're saying, I kidnapped this child or this kid. This kid. Yeah. Instead, she believes once Pedro learned that she had lost her baby in December of 1997, he decided to hand his own child over to her.
I don't know about that. According to the Philadelphia Daily News, her medical records actually show no sign of her having been pregnant at the time or giving birth to a stillborn baby, as she claims. But she has stuck to that story. When in all reality, records indicate that she actually had a tubal ligation in 1990.
Wow. So like, I don't know a lot about that surgery. I don't know if it's reversible, but I know even when people do try to get like their tubes untied, it depletes your chances of...
getting pregnant. It can be reversed by another operation. Only about 50 to 80 percent of women are able to become pregnant after having their fallopian tubes reattached. That's what I figured. Like I know some like surgeries like that claim to be reversible but a lot of them. It's a lower chance. It's a much lower chance. So who's to say? Yeah. But in her version of events Carolyn went to the house that day to give Pedro a ride to a friend's house to buy drugs she said.
Meanwhile, they were like, no, she showed up asking for her brakes to be fixed. But she said after she dropped him off, she returned to Luce at the house just before the fire started. Once the fire started, she helped Luce get all the other children out of the house before returning to the friend's house to pick up Pedro and tell him what happened.
But that couldn't have been true because first responders at the scene told Pedro what happened when he got back. Yeah. She alleged all the way back to the house, he said, it's my fault. I cut the wires in the heater and did something. And when they got near the house, she claims he asked her to drop him about a block away from the house. And a few minutes later, he returned to the car and handed her the baby. What? So he got the baby out of the fire? I'm like, what? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. No.
No. The fire started. So you drove him to his friend's house to quote unquote buy drugs. Then you went back to Luce's house and then the fire happened and nobody knew where the baby was and the baby was already missing from her crib. And then you left to go get Pedro. And then Pedro said...
Oh, no, that's my fault. Thank you for helping my family out of the fire. Here's my baby who I found after the fire. What? Even though no firefighters could find this baby. That's the weirdest story I've ever heard. What?
Anyway, she continued, I took her home, laid down next to her, and played with her. From then on, she was mine, and no one questioned it. Except multiple people for six entire years. What the fuck? No one questioned it, baby. What the fuck are you talking about? It's documented that people have questioned it. Yeah, literally documented. As the trial neared, Carolyn agreed to plead no contest to the charges, and in late September 2005, she was sentenced to nine to 30 years in prison for the abduction.
After the sentence was passed, she addressed the court saying, I truly believe I need counseling, Your Honor. I want to apologize to the family and the court for all of this confusion. All of this confusion. It's like, hey, I'm glad you're saying you need counseling because like 10 out of 10 agree. Because absolutely. Check out better help. Yeah. Confusion? Yeah.
You talk to a therapist about calling that confusion because I don't know about that. Yeah. But in response, Judge Pamela Demby called Carolyn's remarks breathtakingly short of the mark. Yeah. And said, and what I'm hearing in your voice still is an angry desire to put a lot of the responsibility on someone else. I can't imagine letting another parent believe that their child had been burned to death. That's the other thing. It's like you didn't just kidnap this child and this child was like missing. Like they were just like, which it would be
devastating enough to think that somebody just kidnapped your child they were led to believe that she burned to death in her crib to the point where there was literally nothing left nothing for them to do a memorial nothing nothing and they also remember couldn't even have her legally declared dead so there was no headstone to visit nothing nothing wow nothing
Good. Good.
But it was agreed that her primary residence would be with Luce. And for the sake of their daughter, Pedro and Luce maintain a cordial relationship. Pedro's lawyer said, this child already has a fragile psyche. If we get into custody and visitation battles, it's going to get messy. That was really good of them, though, to like put their own shit aside, which like I imagine is hard to do anyways in that scenario. Yeah, absolutely. And it's like to make sure you're putting her and her well-being first. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
And finally, while they always referred to their daughter as Delamar, like I was saying earlier, both Luz and Pedro agreed to continue calling the girl Aaliyah so as not to disrupt or confuse her any further. Because remember, she was six years old when she was reunited with them. Six years she's been Aaliyah.
In late March of 2004, less than a month after Aaliyah was returned to them, Luce and Pedro sold the rights to their story for a movie and a book to the Larry A. Thompson Organization, a company known for producing made-for-TV movies. And in 2008, if this entire thing has been sounding like a Lifetime movie to you... It became one. It became one. The Lifetime Network premiered Little Girl Lost, the Delamar Vera story. And the family and Angel Cruz agreed it was an accurate and respectful depiction of their story. So that's great.
Yeah. In August 2006, both parents, Pager and Luce, filed a civil suit against the city of Philadelphia, including the Philadelphia Fire Department. Wow. Alleging that several city and law enforcement officials had violated their, quote, federal statutory right under the National Child Search Assistance Act of 1990 and their 14th Amendment right by failing to conduct a proper search for Delamar. I understand that. During and after the fire. Yeah.
Right.
So they did so with sympathy, which was nice. Yeah, like they didn't just say like, fuck that. And I think it would have been like difficult to go through more court proceedings. It must be hard to prove all of that. So it's probably a good thing. Exactly. So you hope that now they're all just living peaceably.
peacefully and that my goodness everything is going well for all of them and that yeah they wake up on the right side of the bed every day i hope like i want all good things for this family honestly because it's like you've been through enough that's the thing like damn absolutely bonkers story and i mean there's pictures of them now together and
And everything, and they look so happy. Yeah. And adorable. And that makes you so happy. That's awesome. What a wild story, though. I was just looking for true crime stories that weren't like, you know, like the typical kind of thing. Yeah. And this one had a happy ending, and that made me happy. Wow. Yeah. That's... Wow.
That was a wild story that I have not heard of. A cray cray one. Which is crazy. I never heard it before I started looking up. I think I literally wrote true crime stories with a happy ending. Yeah, I love that because you're just like, I just want one. I just needed one. I would like one now. So yeah. Wow. That is one of the craziest cases I think we've ever covered. Truly. And I'm happy that I had a happy ending for that family. I hope you guys enjoyed it. I hope they're thriving. I hope they're thriving. They look like they are. Yeah. They look so happy. Yeah.
And we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you ever kidnap a baby out of their crib and lie about it. Because don't listen to the show if you do that. Don't. And just don't do that. Don't do that. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.
I'm Dan Taberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York. I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad. I'm like, stop f***ing around. She's like...
I can't. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast. It's like doubling and tripling, and it's all these girls. With a diagnosis the state tried to keep on the down low. Everybody thought I was holding something back. Well, you were holding something back intentionally. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah.
No, it's hysteria. It's all in your head. It's not physical. Oh my gosh, you're exaggerating. Is this the largest mass hysteria since The Witches of Salem? Or is it something else entirely? Something's wrong here. Something's not right. Leroy was the new dateline and everyone was trying to solve the murder. A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios. Hysterical.
Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery+.
