Episode 543: The Execution of Hamida Djandoubi (with Special Guests Alvin & Fran From Affirmative Murder Podcast)
57:01 Share

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Morbid early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast.

Hey everyone, I have to tell you about this all-in-one shake that I am loving called Kachava. It's hands down the best thing that I've found to help me get all my essential nutrients into each day. Kachava is the all-in-one superfood shake made up of high quality plant-based nutrients. It's got greens, it's got superfruits, plant proteins, antioxidants, adaptogens, probiotics, in other words,

everything your body craves to feel your best. It's creamy, it's smooth, and it comes together with just water. It also comes in five delicious flavors. I've tried literally every single one of them. Personally, vanilla and chai are my favorite flavors, and sometimes I like to combine them to have a vanilla chai. But there's also chocolate, matcha, and coconut acai, if that's your thing.

Big fan of the coconut acai. I like to drink cachava in the morning because then I know I got all my nutrients right at the top of my day and I just feel satiated, happy, energized to go about my day. Cachava is offering our listeners 10% off for a limited time. Just go to cachava.com slash morbid. Spelled K-A-C-H-A-V-A and get 10% off your first order. That's K-A-C-H-A-V-A.com slash morbid.

Weirdos, we cover some spooky stories, but nothing is scarier than the thought of hens being trapped in cages. I hate that thought. But listen, at Happy Egg, all of their hens roam on eight or more acres of land, leaving no mystery to why their eggs are the absolute best.

They're cared for by small family farmers and live their best hen lives day in and day out. Aside from their hens roaming across more than eight acres of farmland, they have plenty of access to fresh water and nutritious feed. This goes above the traditional free-range farming, but it's what they believe is better for their birds overall. All of this results in eggs with the plumpest,

Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And I'm Alvin. And I'm Francois. And this is Morbid with a little crossover.

Affirmative murder is here. Man. First of all, I have to let you guys know that we're bringing in behind the closed curtain. We're going to open that curtain up like Wiz. You guys are fulfilling something for me and Fran. We've been beefing.

Oh, no. I guess years. Whenever I came on and guested, I had a great time. But Fran wasn't able to make it for scheduling reasons. And he's been holding that over my head since that time has happened. He's been very aggressive and saying all kinds of passive-aggressive things. We've come to blows almost several times. So it feels good to get a redo and have the full quartet here. And so I want to say thank you, Fran. Please speak and let the people know that you're real. Yeah, I am real. It's an honor to be on here with you guys. Thank you.

I would say the queens of true crime podcasting. Oh my God. Thank you. Yeah. So, um, I think the last time, yeah, I think the last time Alvin maybe hired somebody to like flat my tires. So I couldn't, that's why I didn't make it. I'm happy. I'm happy to be here though.

We're happy to have you guys. I love that. As soon as we got on, I was like, Fran is here. Like the whole crew is here. We had so much fun collabing with Alvin last time, but we were like, we need a Fran. Something felt like it was missing a little bit. It's his fault. It's his fault. Let's blame it on him. We'll blame it on Alvin. This took a turn I did not expect. Alvin, why don't you just go? I'm just kidding. I'll be on by myself. Let's just get out of here.

That's why we're in my house. So I will not be forced out of my home this way. But yes, again, like Fran said, thank you guys for having us. It's great to see you guys again. Always a great time having the conversation with you guys individually and together. I know that's been so fun, too. I know. We've done a couple of those over the years. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. You guys are you guys are cool peeps.

We tried. So were you. Right back at you. Yeah. Ditto. This is a beautiful family right now. Hey, friend. Why don't you get out of here? Suddenly it's flipping. Turned him back on my side. We can all be in this together. We're a family here. It's a team. Stop arguing. No.

I don't want the kids arguing. But we, you know what? We've got something kind of wild to talk about today. And I'm really excited about it a little bit because it's different. It is different. Than what we've done on our show. Yeah, I felt like you guys would enjoy a conversation about a medieval tool of execution and how things come to an end. You know, one day people just stopped planking. Like one day a guy did a plank.

And then everyone was like, oh, that's not it anymore. That's not cool. And so this is the execution version of that. I felt like this is it's always cool. It's interesting to see when trends, you know, subside. And this happened in this case with the guillotine. You know, like TikTok sounds go out of style.

Yeah. Stop. They're like, why are you using that sound? Don't use that sound. Skinny jeans. Same exact thing. That dog going, hell no. Hell no. It's got like a couple more weeks left. And then someday somebody's going to do that. And I'm like, no. No, we don't do that anymore. You're old. Yeah. Gross. This is the exact same thing. And I think, so what we're going to be talking about today, and you're going to be able to hear Fran and Alvin tell this story for the most part, which is great.

Because you're going to hear what amazing storytellers there are. And it's going to make you want to listen to this and then jump right over to their feed and start gobbling up everything that they have to offer. So that's up to you guys, of course. But we do have a podcast called Affirmative Murder. So if you like what we do here, come check us out. There's more. There's room for you on the train. Trains. Trains. Podcast of trains. Yeah. Yeah.

I like trains. We're the conductors. Trains, planes, automobiles. Yes. Boats. All of the above. However you get there is your business. We highly recommend it. We don't transportation. We won't say we're not going to force you over there, but we are highly suggesting by

By like shoving you as hard as we can over there. Yes. But like gently. You'll love it. Yeah. That's all you need to know. So should we just, should we go? Should we get into it? So let's, let's go. Let's do it. Let's do this. Like Lil Jon. Okay. So let's start with like the history of the guillotine, right? Yes. So the guillotine's inception, guys, like many things in modern history, is steeped in like rich white man smoking mirrors.

So one day this guy named, his name was Joseph Ignis Guillotine. This was in 1789. He comes into a room and he's all like, That was actual audio from that moment, actually. Yeah, we sourced it. Yeah. Very rare audio. Yes, exactly. That was archival audio from the French parliament.

But basically what he said was, hey guys, like the way we're killing people is super like barbaric and gross and torturous. And we need to like streamline this, clean things up. Let's get more inundated in the future and leave that stuff in the past. And then he left the room and

two less socially important people, poor people, then did all the hard work and invented the actual guillotine. More specifically, their names were Tobias Schmidt and Antoine Louis. But the device is called the guillotine, named after the rich guy named Joseph Ignace Guillotine, who just had an idea loosely about cleaning up how people die. And then they were like, how about this? And he's like, that's fine.

Put my name on it. Absolutely. And I'll trademark it and patent it as well. So they wanted to make something that's more barbaric and gross. But like quicker. Oh no, I would disagree. Anybody who wants to look up like the Western European modes of killing people before the guillotine, straight up.

straight up some of the craziest things I've ever heard of. There was one, there was a chair, like a metal chair that they would just put over fire and the chair would get really hot and then you just would burn to death on the chair. You wouldn't die. So then it's like everything basically before this was like, we torture you for a long time and then we hit you over the head with a mallet. Yeah. Cause you don't die. We just torture you really bad. They had another one. They tie you to a wheel. Then we put you out. Yeah. They're like breaking on the rack. Yeah.

Was that breaking on the rack? And they like break your bones like misery. One by one. Just like slow as fuck. Turn you into like a scorpion essentially. I feel like I feel that when we talk about it. It's awful. And it's like you stole some bread to the rack you go. And then the rack wouldn't kill you. And then they would like let the birds eat you slowly.

Also, I read that they would either also they would hit you in your chest with a hammer or your stomach because these were fatal blows. But over time. So like, I think we burst your appendix when we hit you with this hammer in the stomach. So now you'll die in like three days from like stomach. They were like sepsis. You'll die eventually. Yeah.

But it's kind of weird hearing a name now where it's like, we know his name, but it being named after a machine that was like beheading people is kind of crazy. Yeah. It's like if somebody's name was like, name was like Noose or something. Exactly. I'm Noose Simmons. Wait, what? Yeah, you're like, whoa. Wait,

Wait a second. But yeah, it's guillotine. You think of the action and it's like, no, it's just some guy who had an idea. It's the guy's name, yeah. And some people say guillotine. When I was younger, everyone said guillotine. Guillotine? And then it like switched over into guillotine, I feel like. Yeah, because we have this conversation all the time. How do you really say it? I like float back and forth. Is this a Mandela effect thing? Sometimes I'll revert to guillotine. I think it might be. I say guillotine though. And I always have. Yeah. I might have made this up. I have imposter syndrome. So I'm like, it's...

it's French and I'm like, I'm going to say it French. But if I was just being myself, I would say guillotine because there's no else. Yeah. Right. I mean, that's how it looks. They both feel right. Yeah. I don't think either is wrong. I don't either. It's dialect. It's all right. Yeah. If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's a fucking duck. So shut the fuck up. Absolutely. Certainly not a moose. And it's a guillotine. Yeah.

They weren't calling it Gilly Hicks. There you go. That's a very deep cut reference. I don't know if anybody shot the Gilly Hicks. I used to work. I worked in the Abercrombie umbrella so I was, you know. Hell yeah. Shout out to Gilly Hicks. Gilly. T-V-T. Shout out to Gilly Hicks. No, but

as we all said, all jokes aside, though, the guy, even though he just had an idea, the idea was, you know, steeped in some level of dignity and not torturing people. So the criminals of France's past should really thank this guy because, like I said, the stuff was very torturous. It could have been worse. You could have been melted on a chair for like

Punching your friend. Yeah, from the butt up. Which is way worse. So the guillotine or guillotine went on to become the symbol of the French Revolution because the people saw it as this great equalizer. Because of the ideas behind its inception, people believed that whether you were royalty or you came from the lowest of the low, the guillotine was the great equalizer. Like everybody who commits the same crimes, they die by the guillotine. And this was enforced by the fact that

Louis XVI and his wife Marie Antoinette. Queen. Literally. They were both beheaded during the French Revolution. The people revolted against them and cut their heads off in mutiny. They were kind of like the Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey of the 17th century. I would say so. They kind of were. They were the it couple until the tides fell. Until they weren't. Like

Everybody loved them until they did. Everybody loved Marie Antoinette, had great gowns, and she was like super trendy. Until the Super Bowl. So, you know, we'll see how the Super Bowl goes, but hopefully it doesn't end the way that Marie Antoinette and Louis went out. We can all hope. We can all hope, yeah. It would be a more interesting Super Bowl.

Yeah, maybe different. In a different way. In a different way. In a very different way. It would hit a little different. It would hit very different. That's very true. For the next hundred years, though, the guillotine shined as a symbol of France's altruistic and dignified stance on capital punishment.

And over time, the public sentiment towards the execution style for high crimes, it started to shift. And this really kind of really, really took place in during World War Two when Adolf Hitler was killing thousands of people publicly using the guillotine.

But it was more, it was malicious. He just, if you dissented against the regime of Adolf Hitler, he would behead you publicly. So really people were like, oh, this isn't this equaling force in the caste system. It's just, it's a torture device. The idea that the PR team around

the guillotine when it first came out was super strong. It was like Steve Jobs level where they're like, are we cutting your head off? Yeah, but like, it's got Wi-Fi. It's got Wi-Fi. It's got Wi-Fi.

This thing has Bluetooth. And people are like, whoa, this is revolutionary. Like, this is next level stuff. It's like you're cutting off somebody's head and it falls in the basket. So like you can wear a button up shirt while it happens. So this is dignified. What song do you want to go out to? We all can watch this publicly. It's super clean. Nobody gets blood on them because it's so fast. It cuts the head off. It goes in the basket. So yeah, we can all go to like a nice classy dinner after this. Yeah.

But it's a barbaric tool that slices off your head and falls in the basket. That's what it's always been. But then when Hitler started using it, people were like, this is nasty, actually. That's not the dignified tool that we thought it was. It was always this gross thing. But I'm glad you know now. At least we're starting to have conversations now around capital punishment and those kind of things. But it took

Kind of the turn of the century, you know, the industrial age, people driving cars and stuff to go slicing off people's heads in public is wrong. Kind of fun. Kind of gnarly. It's a little hardcore. Look at us as humans. It just takes us a minute. Look at us go. Upon reflection, I don't think I'd like to see somebody's head cut off in broad daylight. I'd like to go to the cinema. Yeah, now that I think about it. Yeah.

Right.

That's right. We're cutting the price of Mint Unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. $45 upfront for three months plus taxes and fees. Promo rate for new customers for limited time. Unlimited more than 40 gigabytes per month. Slows. Full terms at mintmobile.com.

With Audible, there's more to imagine when you listen. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice, any genre you love, you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities, new ways of thinking. And Audible makes it easy to be inspired and entertained as a part of your everyday routine without needing to set aside extra time. As an Audible member, you choose one title a month to keep from their ever-growing catalog. Be

Be inspired to explore your inner creativity with Viola Davis' memoir, Finding Me. Find what piques your imagination with Audible. New members can try Audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash imagine or text imagine to 500-500. That's audible.com slash imagine or text imagine to 500-500. ♪

So just a couple of decades removed from World War II, the nation of France was so far from the barbaric stances that they had so long ago that this idea of a falling blade being this distinguished, decent way of killing people was now starting to be the subject of conversations in France and all across Western Europe. Because Europe did, in a lot of countries in Europe, did away with capital punishment long before the United States did. Because we also didn't, federally in the United States, we still do that. Yeah. But a lot of countries in Western Europe

Don't kill people as a form of punishment. But yeah, this became an outdated concept in France during the 40s and 50s and 60s. It started to become like this conversation that was had like, should we be doing this? If we really are the dignified people that we say we are, is killing people in the first place even dignified at all? It's like a knife. Maybe not. Perhaps not. Probably not. The answer is no. That might not be that chill.

It was the 60s. They're like, you know what? That's not chill. That's super not chill. We're moving into a chill vibe century here. Got to leave some stuff behind. Calm down. So all of that backstory brings us to the final time a state-sanctioned guillotining or guillotining took place in France, which was in the year 1977. Hilariously, in a sense, the same year that Star Wars A New Hope came out. So there was...

Wow. This really big leap in technology as far as movies go. And also France was still like, we cut people's head off. Yeah, we cut people's head off. Yeah. When you put those two events together, you're like, at the same time? At the same damn time. Yeah, it's super crazy. Like the idea of such an old form of torture being still used while, you know, my boy Harrison Ford is doing his thing. Yeah.

Super lean in those bootcut black pants, those gauchos. Hell yeah. You could bounce a quarter off that thing. So anyway, yes, this is the story of Hamida Jandoubi, who was the last man to be killed in France by the method of guillotine.

Fun fact, as we discussed before we went live mics with you guys, the last public guillotining actually took place in 1939 when a serial killer named Eugene Weidman was beheaded in front of a crowd of hundreds. Damn. A crowd of like 600 people gathered four hours early. They were passing out sausage sandwiches. People were like, they were like doing the wave. They were cheering and whistling. It was the Super Bowl. It was Coachella. Coachella. Coachella.

This was, yes, this was murder. This was Coachella. Coachella. Yes. They had like souvenir stands out there. This was Coachella 1939. Get my seat. They were four hours early. The beheading took place at 4 a.m. So we were out there at midnight. Damn. Wow. People were on floaters.

They picked out their outfits ahead of time. Yeah, exactly. People were wearing glitter. Straight up medieval. Like it is straight up like from the 1600s. And it's 1939. Like that is wild to me. Everybody was wearing like flowery headdresses. Oh, yeah. It was a very big fashion moment.

Yeah. Lana Del Rey was there in a past life. Yeah. She's a thousand years old and she was at this. Cause of course she would be. Lana Del Rey is always a ghost in a white dress. Always. Christopher Lee was actually at that one. Who? Christopher Lee from star Wars and Dracula and,

Lord of the Rings. He was at the He was 17 years old and he was actually at that one. The 1939 one? Yes. And he said he didn't look. He said he turned at the last second. He said he heard it though. Oh. Yeah, he said it was like wild. Oh, he heard it? Oh my goodness. Probably like a crunch or something crazy. I know. No, but hearing like the membrane of the spine. And then the head fall. Oh, sure. Like if it's like if they used like a Norelco razor.

It should be sharp. But then you hear a thump. You would hear that thump though. If it was a Bic, you'd hear everything. This one, this was the last public when it was sponsored by Bic. The documentary is coming out soon. It failed, the event.

It's like Woodstock 99. A great sponsoring opportunity. It's like Bic ruined everything. That's why Gillette is the best the band can get. Because they did not fall for this. Yeah, but so this last one, this last public one, people were going crazy. The beheading took place at like 4 a.m. and people lost their shit. They were throwing their sausage sandwiches. They were living for the moment. More! And the French government was so embarrassed that they were like, we are never doing this again.

So it took a crowd outrage. No, it's not even outrage. The crowd was so excited and ravenous that the French government was disgusted at itself and was like, we're not doing this anymore. You guys are having too much fun. Too much fun at this. French parties, dancing. Yeah, they were the French. They were the fun police.

They were the fun police. These people had a blast, man. They were losing their shit. They were throwing stuff. They lost their mind. It wasn't like the people lost their mind at this barbaric incident. It was so sick and awesome. The French government was like, this is done. You people are animals and we are taking this away from you because we thought you guys would be disgusted and you guys are too excited. It's over now. It's supposed to be a lesson. You're supposed to learn a lesson. You're supposed to learn a lesson. You're supposed to walk away from this and be like, you shouldn't steal.

You know what it was? They were like, we see that you are all humans and that humans are terrible. And we don't ever want to see that again. Yeah. We'd like to pretend we're not. This is why the government exists to protect the people from themselves. The government makes the decisions that the people would never make because you guys are animals. So they had to do that. Which is pretty horrifying. Yeah. It's really horrifying. Yeah. Somebody left that was like, I'm going to frame a dude for thievery tomorrow so that they can be awesome. Yeah.

I fucking hate my neighbor. Let's go. Let's frame him and then he'll be beheaded publicly. Because we look back at these like public executions from like, you know, King Henry VIII and all that shit. And we're like, oh my God, people were like bringing their kids to this. They were just like coming out for this. Like it's a big event. Times were so different. People were so terrible back then. And then we're like 1939. We're all like, woo!

People listen to this on the radio. Let's watch this guy die. It's not wild. When everybody's got on like, you know, Lederhosen and those big man sparkly dresses. I don't know like what William Shakespeare's always depicted in. When I see them in those, I'm like, yeah, those people got beheaded. But when you see somebody in like a suit. Yeah, see? Yeah.

People in those kind of suits got somebody with a pocket watch and a big bow tie. And like a pompadour. People had product in their hair and brushed their teeth. And they were like, let's go to the beheading. Hygiene was a thing. Exactly. You know, also off topic a little bit. I was having a discussion with my girlfriend the other day and we were talking about how that Fifty Shades of Grey moment. Like we all just kind of look back on that or we did look back on it was like people were going to the movie theaters and droves to like watch Smut.

Yeah. Like, like, like it was sold out like this weekend. You can't get a ticket to go see 50 shades. And there's just a bunch of people in the audience being like, Oh my,

Just watching. Girls are united. When you look back on it, that's really weird to do. It's wild. Elbow to elbow with a stranger just being like in heat. That's crazy. You know, so people are going to look back on that someday and be like, what were these people doing? This is a dirty movie. We're a weird species of people gathering to watch fanfic. People are really something. Something to behold. We don't get better. We just get weirder. We just get different. Carpool to a guillotine is

It's nuts, man. Eating a sausage sandwich while somebody's getting their head cut off. And that's a real thing. Like the sausage sandwich thing is a real thing. Yeah, the shops. There was two shops right there in the town square that were like, we got to load up on sausage sandwiches because there's going to be a packed crowd tonight. That'll change you. And there were waiters like joking around. Oh, so was the money to be made. Vendors. Vendors out there like popcorn. Get your popcorn. It's straight up medieval. Oh, yeah. As hell. Yeah. But it was 1939. Yeah.

1939.

So let's get back to this guy named Hamida Jandubi, the man in question. So Hamida Jandubi was born on September 22nd, 1949. He was actually born in Tunisia, which I have not been to. But when I looked up pictures, it's gorgeous. It's like a coastal city. It's like a coastal country in northern Africa. It's got beautiful waters. It almost kind of looks like Greece. But there is a travel warning or travel advisory about like there's like

crime at the moment. But it's a beautiful, I mean, you look at the, I couldn't find a bad picture of it. Oh, it's gorgeous. Yeah, this place is gorgeous. No, this is gorge. I want to go. Yeah. So I guess for whatever reason, by the time Hamida was 20 years old, he was like, fuck all this blue water and sun. Yeah. Listen, I had a great time when I went to France, but it is pretty dirty. It looks like New York. Yeah. Yeah. Like all the pictures that you see are lies. Yeah. It's

It's propaganda. It's just New York. Every restaurant down by the Eiffel Tower sucks. They're all like, they want you to leave quickly because it's touristy. So you really got to go outside. It's like New York. You don't go to Times Square. That's true. There's a word for that. Like when you go to Paris and you get disappointed because it's like a thing a lot of people experience. Is it ennui? Yes.

I'm going to Google it. Keep going and I'll just interject. Yeah, the French disappointment, if you go with the tourist mindset, if you go and you're like, oh, I went on TikTok and I was like, places the locals go. I had a great time. But the Louvre, the Eiffel Tower, all these things, you're never going to get close to the Mona Lisa. The Eiffel Tower, you look at it, but it was closed. You couldn't go in it because they were doing construction. Everything is just nice. But

Beautiful people, great shops. And if you go to the places where the locals go, it's a cool city, but it is dirty.

It's called Paris Syndrome, by the way. It's a thing. There you go. People get hallucinations, increased heart rate, nausea, because they're so disappointed. Damn. Yeah. Were you that disappointed? Yeah. Really? You're like, wait, I thought that like this was like Amelie. Everybody thinks it's Amelie. Yeah. Everybody thinks it's that. They're like, it's going to be like a romantic, beautiful dream. Yeah. So it's never that. It's just never that. But anyway, so Hamida had moved to France by the time he was 20 years old and he was living and working in France as a stock boy at a grocery store.

He also had a job as a landscaper, but in 1971, he suffered an accident on the job. One of Hamida's legs was caught in a tractor, crushing it horribly and causing him to lose two thirds of his right leg. Oh, that's a lot of your leg. That's a lot of your leg. That's almost all of it. Yeah, pretty much all of it. Yeah. But I like, see what they did in that, um,

Remember that two-part movie thing that came out with Rose McGowan when she made it a gun? Oh, yes. The Grindhouse. He lost about that much of his leg. Up to his quad. I forgot about that movie. That was a really bold idea for like 2009. That was a wild one. A double feature horror movie. I forgot about that movie. I'm not sitting in the movie for five hours. Crazy. Now I love it. It's like AK-47. Hell yeah.

Yeah, she had an AK-47 leg. Damn. Yeah. And it was, that was, when movies are just, I like movies that are silly. It's like, how does she pull the trigger with like, like what pulls the trigger? Who knows? Who knows? It's movie magic. And that's, I love when movies do that. Like, don't ask questions. There's this, this lady has a gun as a leg. That's awesome. Just happens. Whenever the theme of a movie is, don't worry about it. That's when I love it. That's fun. Like when you ask a question, you just go, don't worry about it.

Let's deal with it. Yeah. You don't ask questions. Just enjoy what's happening. Take the ride. Yeah. So, yeah. So unfortunately Hamida did lose about two thirds of his legs and he did not get a cool gun. Like he just, they gave him a prosthetic eventually.

He struggled to find work for years after this accident. And this is when he started to take up drinking and using controlled substances. And in 1973, he met a young woman named Elizabeth Bisquette. Okay. That's an elegant name. It's a very elegant name. That is. Sidebar, I am ashamed at how long I did call biscuits bisquettes. Yes.

Bisquets. Bisquets. I think you should still call biscuits bisquets. It's the same thing as what was the other word we were talking about? It's guillotine. It looks like biscuit. It has a Q and an I in it. That's what I call my dog. My dog's name is biscuit. Bisquets. Or at least bisquets. Bisquets. When they're fancy. Bisquets.

Why not? You know, think outside the box. I'm just saying, I'm just telling people, if you take nothing else from affirmative murder, know that, hey, we like to think outside the box over there. Yeah. Romanticize everyday life. Exactly. Bisquets. Have a nice bisquit, some tea. Yeah. So these two met while Hamida was recovering in the hospital from an amputation because at first he lost a leg, but then he had to have a couple of amputation surgeries to kind of clean it up and, you know, all that kind of stuff. Get it where it needed to be.

And while he was sitting in the hospital, he met Elizabeth Bisquette. But not long after meeting, Elizabeth filed a complaint against Jan Duby, alleging that he tried to force her into prostitution. So, yeah. Which is horrifying to think about. That's so scary. That he's just being taken care of by this because she's like a nurse. Yeah. She comes and checks on the patients. And he's...

And he's trying to force her into sex work. It's like, where did those two things connect? How did this happen? He's down and out and he's still this evil. Like, that's scary. When somebody's in their darkest time and they're still like, how can I manipulate and exploit people? Like, this person is trying to be nice to you while you're...

Not even more than half of your leg is gone. And while they're talking, you're like, I'm going to fucking manipulate and just trick you so bad. That's really... I'm going to try to ruin your life. That's dark. Wow. That's dark-sided. I'm going to gaslight and destroy your life. While they're just like, you need a sponge bath? Can I help you? That's a really evil person. That's sinister. Yeah.

Yeah. That's dark sided. Yeah. I'll tell you what, if, if, if, uh, Obi-Wan Kenobi had looked down on Anakin Skywalker while he was all burnt up on that lava mountain. And, and he said like, one day I'm going to be a super evil dude and kill everybody. I think he would have killed him.

at the time you have that pity you're like i'm here to help i'm here to help you're down on your luck and but if you knew in his mind he's like oh i'm gonna human traffic you you'd be like oh god like oh fuck that yeah you're out of here no yeah so he fell down that classic um tractor accident to sex trafficking predator pipeline you know it's an easy one to fall into you know absolutely right we've all heard yada yada yada sex trafficker

That's what his, like, that's what his defense tried to use. Yeah, they were like, wow. That exact defense. They were like, you know how this happens. Yeah. It's like, I don't know if that was going to work. Not so much. I ruptured my Achilles like five years ago and I was super bummed out. Never thought about committing horrible crimes against people. Right. You know what I mean? Was I a little bummed? Yeah. What?

What did I do? I smoked a little weed and I watched Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse. That's how you handle that. I'm going to like make Girl Scouts sell cookies for me without giving them the money to get their prizes. My brain never cooked up some kind of crazy scheme. I was not scheming. So Jan Doobie was arrested for her filing a complaint against him, but he was released not long after because it was a complaint. There was nothing criminal to charge him with.

Upon his release, though, Hamid allured two other young girls to his apartment and forced them into prostitution for his financial benefit. And it's actually really interesting the times in France, like if anybody has seen Moulin Rouge, this was the time of the madam. Like there was a lot of like brothels and madams. And there was one madam in particular. I didn't write her name down, but she was the most famous madam. And her her signature was she would make all of the women that she forced into sex work give plastic surgery.

Like immediately. She would get them under her control and then make them have plastic surgery. That was like her stamp. And this is plastic surgery in like the 1970s. It's not awesome plastic surgery, but it's like you all get it.

Yeah. And so in France, this was a very popular brothels and madams and all these things. And so he kind of tried to follow that same pathway, but he was using his apartment and he wasn't good at it. But he was still a man who was manipulating women. He was still making women be under his control. But that was his idea when he couldn't get a job as a stock boy. He's like, I'll become a pimp or whatever you call that in French. So like I said, Jan Duby is now seeing himself as some kind of a pimp and his arrogance as a man

didn't let him let go of the fact that Elizabeth Bisquit had filed a complaint against him. So for the next year, he fixated on the fact that she wasn't under his control. She didn't fall for his tricks or lies or whatever and become one of his women or whatever. And they called them Lorette's. That's the French word for a sex worker that works at the time. Like there's,

And then there is, what was Satine in Mulan? That's why I brought up Mulan. She was a courtesan. A courtesan is like you work with one specific John and they kind of fund your lifestyle. Where a laurette is what you think of a sex worker, like a rotating cast of people. So that was a laurette. But a courtesan is more like, oh, I have a rich dignitary takes care of me. Yeah.

Yeah. But they all work at a brothel for a madam. It's just different levels of it, I guess. But yeah, so he sees himself as this, but he still, you know, Elizabeth Bisquette is in the back of his mind. Is this the one that got away? The one that tried to put him in prison? He can't let it go. She bested him. He fixates on it until July of 1970. That's so scary that he fixated that long. Yeah, he just couldn't let it go. Oh, that's so scary.

That's yeah, that's evil. Well, men are scary, you know, and that's one thing as a man in true crime, you don't really as a man not in true crime. If you don't have conversations with women, you don't really know how scary men are when you're a man. But when you when you hear a woman go like, oh, walking down the street, like what men are thinking about, like,

All of these things are like, they're all, they all can be dangerous to somebody, you know, but you never look at it that way. Of course. A woman's Roman empire is being killed. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It's like, it's, and it's, and it's probably you think by a man, like some guy that's on Instagram or go to the gym as them. And it's just some guy just like, I like you now.

Could be anybody. Those are my feelings. How you feel doesn't have anything to do with that. Well, I followed you to your car because I want your number. Oh, yeah. And that's fine. I don't want to give it to you. But I want it, though. That's scary. I don't think of that as scary. That's just not an experience I've had in my life. In my younger years, I've had some aggressive women be like, well, give me your phone number. But I was never like, oh. Terrified. She might kill me. What a weird lady. Yeah. I'm like, no.

I think that's a hard concept for a lot of men to be like, why don't you just say no? It's like, well, intimidation, fear, you know, like it's a lot of things. It's a lot more complicated than that. Because you don't want to piss a man off. And sometimes people do say no and it doesn't work out. And then the bad things happen faster. Yeah. I mean, you can't even really take a walk or a jog alone as a woman anymore.

Like you can't like I would love to take a jog in the morning, like early morning with like music on. But I could never do that. Like my husband's like, absolutely not. Like you're not going by yourself. Like if you want to go for a walk, your husband has to go. He has to come. So you can't have like alone time to like just zone out to like music. Yeah. With your cute pink headphones. I remember telling, I told Alvin, I went to Myrtle Beach maybe a couple of years ago and it was a, we was out mini golfing and there was a young lady going for a jog.

It was maybe like nine o'clock at night. She had headphones on. I was like, oh, my God. That's kind of me. That's crazy. She's drunk by herself late at night. I mean, I'm not from Myrtle Beach, but that's still terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. You're like worried for her. Right. Be careful. I've had we we have had many conversations where we're just casually talking and we're like, I got the AirPod Max's last year.

And I'm like, you hit the button and everybody goes away. I don't know what's going on. I don't know. Yes. You have that conversation. That button is for men. Yes. That's exactly. You're like, I hit this button and you could come hit me in the back of the head with a bat. I couldn't know what we're like, but we're like, that's awesome. Yeah. That's so awesome. Yeah. No idea what's going on in my surroundings when I hit this button. I'm like yelling. Can you hear me? You can't. We just see mom lips. I have no idea what's happening. No.

That's the freedom of a man to be like, you could just like turn off your guard. Yes. It's so true. Cause we have those two and we were doing that. We're like, well, I can't hear you at all. And I was like, I could never wear these outside of the house. Nope. I would never hit this button if I wasn't in the safety of my home. No, never. Even with the button off, I'm like, should I be wearing these? Yeah. I'm like, I shouldn't wear these outside. They're going to think I can't hear them. Nope.

This season, Instacart has your back to school. As in, they've got your back to school lunch favorites, like snack packs and fresh fruit. And they've got your back to school supplies, like backpacks, binders, and pencils. And they've got your back when your kid casually tells you they have a huge school project due tomorrow.

Let's face it, we were all that kid. So first call your parents to say I'm sorry, and then download the Instacart app to get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes all school year long. Get a $0 delivery fee for your first three orders while supplies last. Minimum $10 per order. Additional terms apply.

Wow. Did we just write an ad?

Yes. Bombas. Big comfort for everyone. Go to bombas.com slash Wondery and use code Wondery for 20% off your first purchase. So, yeah. So, like I said, Hamida Jandubi fixated on Elizabeth Biscuit for a year until in 1974, he kidnapped her and brought her to his home.

My God. Now his home was acting as some kind of makeshift brothel. He had the other, the other two young ladies were still there. They all lived together and he brings her in to the home. He beat Elizabeth in full view of the terrified girls. And even when, as far as the, um, put out lit cigarettes on her body, um,

So this was very, very like vindictive and evil, fightful years. I mean, days and days of, and weeks of thinking and fixating on her. And he didn't take it. He took his time in getting his revenge on her. Wow. Yeah. He straight up tortured her. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Really horrible. And also to do it in front of the two other women that were under the control of his sex trafficking ring was also intentional as well. Probably. Time is of trying to prove a point.

going to see what happens. Oh yeah, absolutely. Like this will happen to you if you try to go. That flexes his muscle a little bit. Yep. So Bisquette actually survived the ordeal, but after the torture, Hamida drove her to the outskirts of Marseille, another lovely town, beautiful, beautiful city. But he strangled her on the outskirts of Marseille.

He then returned from the brutal murder and Jen Doobie warned the other two girls not to say anything about what they had seen or else, you know, that whole implications thing. There's the intimidation. But on July 7th, 1974, Elizabeth Bisquette's body was discovered in a shed and the investigation by the police was launched.

However, though, Jan Duby was so arrogant that he moved on from that immediately. And not more than a couple of days later, he went back out to try to kidnap another young girl with the intention of forcing her into his sex trafficking ring. So he's looking to get a third woman into his sex trafficking ring. But the young lady managed to flee, probably because...

She ran. So she got away. She gets away and she filed a police report against the police and they went and arrested him. But they arrested him again for a complaint, basically, which is what Elizabeth Biscuit filed against him. So he was arrested. But during the time that he was in holding,

They actually brought him up on charges for the murder of Elizabeth Bisquit. So thankfully, they were able to connect the dots because he was a human trafficker. Yeah. What his actions were. And then they put that together with how Elizabeth Bisquit was killed and also read something that the two women, once he was arrested, came forward and gave their accounts as well. Yeah. So it was like kind of put it all together in that moment. But thank you know, he could have been let out.

Whatever the way he was let out when he threatened Elizabeth Bisquette. So thankfully he wasn't. And thank goodness those other two women were able to talk about what happened to them. Because sometimes they break them so hard that they don't even feel like they can speak out against it. They probably saw it as their opportunity. Like, we have to do this while he's in custody. For sure. Yeah, exactly. I think that's what happened. I think they were like, this is our moment to...

to get him. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, yeah. So after two and a half years of sitting in prison on February 24th, 1977, Amita Jandubi appeared in court on charges of torture, murder, rape, and premeditated violence. His defense, as Elena alluded to, was that the tragic loss of two thirds of his leg drove him to a period of alcohol abuse and violence, which transformed him into a different person. And that different person just happened to be a human trafficker. Yeah.

And it's like, okay, then we're going to imprison that different person that you are today. That different person? You're going to the choker. Send his ass to the choker. Now. Yeah. Because plenty of people go through that and don't do what he did. Like, come on. That's the shittiest defense ever. It is. It's like he lost his leg. Yeah. To try to fucking...

weaponize mental illness like that to be like, I was going through a time of darkness. Exactly. And I became a full-blown criminal. Yeah. So I should be just let free. There's other ways to like deal with your, you know, not having a job. And I'm, listen,

If you go through a tragic accident and your life has changed forever, if I ruptured my Achilles in 1977, I would have a limp for the rest of my life. Thankfully, modern science is, you know, you can get a surgery and now I can play basketball again and I can run and everything. But if I was now a person who walked different and couldn't work the same job that did, that would affect me mentally. That's no excuse to start ruining people's lives and kidnapping people and stuff. Yeah.

Go to therapy. The things that therapy can resolve, you'll be amazed by. It's wild. Any other outlet than hurting other human beings or yourself? Yeah. Anything else. You know, they say, you know, and everybody else goes, hurt people, hurt people. Like, no, don't just, let's not, let's not just normalize that. Exactly.

That's an excuse. I know we say it like that's a bad thing, but hurt people can do other things. Yeah. Hurt people go to therapy. That's the 2024 slogan. Hurt people go to therapy. Exactly. So the very next day, so this would be February 25th, Hamida Jandubi was sentenced to death. Like they heard all they needed to hear. His defense said their bullshit that they said. They were like, you're not wasting time. Okay. Yeah. Alcohol abuse. Guilty. Yeah.

Still guilty. They went and deliberated for a cool 45 minutes and they came back with that death by guillotine verdict. Damn. And after a denied appeal, Hamida was also informed that he would not receive a reprieve from the then president of France. But no way he thought he was like sitting there like, oh man. He was like, he's going to come through. I know it. If president can sit there and reprieve him.

If he sends that reprieve, I'll be golden. And the president did not do that. Nah. That's not President Ha Ha's style. Ha Ha does not play like that. President Ha Ha was like, no, no. No. Homie don't play that. The one thing about President Ha Ha, he doesn't like guys to do what he did. He doesn't mess around. No reprieve for you. He said, ha ha, uh-uh. Ha Ha said, uh-uh.

So the president of France denied a reprieve for Hamida. And in the early morning of September 10th, 1977, 12 days before his 28th birthday,

Oh my God. He was only 27? He was only 28 years old. Wow. He didn't make it to 28. He was 27 years old. 50 years old. No, this is a young boy. I mean, by the time he was 20, he was working at the stock place. His injury happened by the time he was like 23 years old. So between 23 and 27, he had a life as a scummy human trafficker.

He's literally my age. He's a literal bebe. Bebe. That's crazy. And now he's sitting at the gallows, man. Crazy times. Being there with a guy holding a curtain rod or whatever the string is to drop a fucking a big razor on your neck.

and they walk you past that wicker basket yeah that your headless body is going to be placed into like you just you just breeze right by it i'm like i mean that they said he was like really trying to buy time he's smoking cigarettes oh yeah they told him like that's enough yeah he was really so many cigarettes he's really

I think he had like three cigarettes and a glass of water. I don't blame him though. I mean like he was taking those things for a walk. I think he had some rum too. He was like, I'm going to save this. Yeah, he was taking those things for a walk. You got a Gillette razor just staring at you and you're like, oh, this is the end. That last meal? Yeah. Oh, the last meal. And you see somebody like swing, swing, swing. Sharpening it? Sharpening it. And I was like, I'll have everything. Literally everything. Take me to the buffet. Yeah.

Because you think about it and you're like, when I finish this cigarette, that is the last thing I do. That is it. Or if I take this last sip, that's the last thing I do. I would want to be like a little tipsy. They would have to fight me. They would have to pull that cigarette. No, I'm not done yet. You're done after the cigarette.

You had to pull that from me Smoking the filter They spray it Put the fire out Oh my god It's so stressful to think about That's a lot to reconcile It's coming to an end This is the bucket your head is going to fall in Here's the basket That will put your headless body in He has white gloves on He's real classy He's a real classy guy He's got ass jeeves gloves on He's like

And here's your bags. Here's your headbasket. Because I think Eugene Weidman there, the guy, the last public execution there in 39. He when they walked him out, his eyes were closed the whole he didn't want to look at anything. He just squeezed his eyes shut the whole time. And I was like, oh,

Yeah, I would be the same way. I don't want to see that. I don't want to look at this. I wouldn't either. That's where my head is going to fall. You bump into the basket. They're like, this is a second generation guillotine. Yeah. They start taking it through like it's a Winnebago. They're like, this is a... It's guillotine 2.0. Yeah, we really streamline things.

this is a titanium string that it falls from you're like this vicious serial killer is reduced into like closing his eyes shut like a kid yeah like it's just like i know in for a second i was like oh and then i was like wait a second this guy yeah yeah too many emotions that part is kind of when you talk about it being the great equalizer yeah when you talk about somebody being this horrible thing person that did this horrible thing and then them being brings you right

down yeah in that moment them being scared absolutely it's like no matter who you are or what you did when you see that in the basket and the thing everybody's this it's the same reaction you know no one's looking at that stoically no it's not happening no no no no i you know marie antoinette was so um flustered and and fucked up and scared it was they killed marie antoinette for a lot of fucked up reasons it was yeah but she apologized to the guy that did the thing like

Because she stepped on his shoes. She was so flustered. She didn't know what to do. She apologized to him for stepping on the shoes. That was her last words. Meanwhile, you're going to be cutting my head off in a second. But I'm sorry I stepped on your shoes. Sorry, I got scuffed up your shoes. Sorry. Who knows what I would say. Did I leave the pot on? Yeah. Don't record that. I don't want to hear the last thing.

It's so gross. Yeah, it's crazy, man. So, yeah, September 10, 1977, 12 days before his 28th birthday, Hamida Jandubi was guillotined at the Bomet prison in Marseille shortly after 4.40 a.m. And like I said, there's really like no better city I could think of that to be killed in because it's a beautiful city. You look up pictures of Marseille.

Oh, really? Yeah, it was really pretty. So nice sight to see before. Nice sight to see. When you're looking out that window, like I picture like a hunchback of Notre Dame style. Like I think every prison in Europe is made of bricks. And then they have like bars. And you look out and you see the beautiful coast of Marseille. It's like, oh, wow. For the last time.

And then they take you off to slice your head off. Now, there is some debate as to whether a person is still alive, even briefly after a beheading. And some physicians have done studies in the last century that show brain activity in animals like rats and stuff for like up to 30 seconds. So but they say this could be a reaction to the pain receptors from animals.

the quick slicing, like it could just be the pain receptors reacting as far as blinking and stuff that people have said they've seen heads do in baskets. This has been seen in like people being bit by rattlesnakes that have been beheaded. Or like I have a friend, she embalms, she works at a funeral home and she said the dead bodies, they sigh. Elena, can you attest to that? They do, I can't attest to that.

That does happen because air will be forced out sometimes and it'll, a little bit of like a moan will come with it sometimes because it's just like a trapped moment almost. That rocked my spine when she told me that. No, that's fucked up. That'll rock your shit when you're alone in a morgue. Luckily, I think I'll never find myself in that position. That's terrible. They warned me ahead of time of that, thankfully, because when it happened, I was like, oh,

And I was like, okay, all right, I know what that is. And she said it was like melancholic. Like it's very much like... It is. Yeah. It's a very sad... It's like a little, like you're bored. Is it like... Is there like different tones? Like it being a male and female or it's just... Yeah, it can be. And it's like different when, like different methods of it coming out. Like sometimes when you cut, sometimes the air just escapes. So like, it'll just be like a...

No, when you're that in that moment, like that. Yeah. Certain air will escape. Hurry up. So it's it's interesting. Wow. That's fucked. Yeah. I didn't know that. That would cut even. Yeah. Just like there's certain ways when you're like manipulating a body, if there's trapped air somewhere, it's coming out.

This episode is brought to you by Huggies Little Movers. Huggies knows that babies come in all shapes and sizes, and their tushies do too. Huggies has more curves and outstanding active fit. Babies, no matter what kind of butt you've got, you'll feel comfy while your mushy little tushy wiggles and jiggles all around. Get your baby's butt into the best-fitting diaper. Huggies Little Movers. We got you, baby. ♪

So it is controversial. But anyways, it is possible that Amita Jandubi sat with his head in that basket reflecting on his life like 30 seconds before the curtains faded. You know, those curtains closed. You kind of hope so. That like he was like, fuck, I shouldn't have done that. Yeah, he sat in that basket. Does that last 30 seconds? Yeah, just have a moment of like, ooh, regerts. Are they tied up? Like, are they laying down? I think they, you know, tie their hands behind their backs or they might even be like, we got you here, man. Just sit down on your...

I think they lay like belly down. Yeah. And somebody holds their feet. You'd have to tie me up. There's no way I'm just going to like, yeah, I'm just going to like go along with this. It's not happening. Didn't they used to put like a hood over your head too?

I think they did for... They did it for hangings. For hangings because you're... Sometimes it's a little ghastly. But they might have done it for that because then the head falls in the basket and then it's in the bag. You take the bag out and they like your head. You're more hygienic. What is the thing called they like your head because you can't... Oh, that's a stockade. That's for when you want to be pomelled with tomatoes.

Yeah. When you want to be. Those are for minor crimes. That's for like, you know, you look at a married woman in public. Yeah. They put you in the stockade and throw tomatoes at your face. You showed an ankle. Yeah. Yeah. You were a Jezebel. Yeah. You had your knees out. Oh, scandalo. Yeah. With tomatoes.

in the town square um but yes uh that was the story of hamida jandubi and the last time a guillotine was used on a human being in france and in western europe damn that's so wild that's crazy they also used to call it the national razor no way i just saw yeah that's more metal i kind of like that it's really metal we're taking you to the national razor today

I did look up because I always wondered why the razor was at an angle. So they said they'd do that so it was an easy slice because if it was flat, it'll bounce. It'll be some breaking of the neck. That makes sense. Like I told you in the beginning, when you talk about their methods, they used to just have one guy with an axe.

Yeah, it was kind of dull. And so it would take a couple of swipes, like two, three or so twice. And there was even, you know, everything creates a market. Right. So there were people who were like, if you loved your family member, you'd slip the you'd slip the the the warden or the guy with the axe some money to use a sharper axe.

Yeah. Here's 20 bucks, man. Can you try hard to like really get it in one go? Because there were some where it was like they would slip and hit them in the back. There was some where they would like they would slip. Yeah, like slip. Fuck you. Because some of those executioners were just like drunk and like

Some of them were like, you know, having to deal with doing this all the time. So they would show up like just completely wasted and like. I'd be so pissed if mine was drunk. Completely missed. Yeah. Wow. And then sometimes I think the person who was being executed had to pay the executioner as they walked up onto the. For the service. The scaffold. Could you cut my head off please? Like a lot of like King Henry VIII wives.

wives who were murdered that way, like handed them like a bag of coins before. The beheading tax. Yeah. Hey, listen. They tax you till it's over, man. Yeah. You have to pay for everything. You gotta pay the service. You gotta pay the beheader. That's humiliating too. Isn't it? Like you're paying for this? Yeah, that adds a level of humiliation. Yeah, don't tap my pockets one last time before you slice my head off. Especially when it's the guy with the axe. I'd much rather space the guillotine than a guy just...

It's named Marcus. Yeah, just like, all right, let's do this. With an axe is crazy. With an axe and it's dull. And they have to be able to aim correctly. And like you said, you need that angle. Yeah, you got to really hit a specific spot. You said a back. You get hit in the back with an axe. So fucked up. What did you say, my bad? Yeah, sorry, bro. Yeah, like, oops. Whoopsie-daisy, bro. Sorry. Hey, bro, scoot back a little bit. Sorry about that. You weren't on the mark. That was your fault. It was your bad. That was your fault. That was your fault. That was your fault.

My spine's out. You're like, no, it was on you. It was your fault. It was your fault. That was on you. That wasn't me. Yeah, it was your fault. You flinched. You flinched. Damn. That's wild. And imagine just going home after that as the executioner. You're just like, all right. You just go home to your family. Did you make dinner? Imagine going home after that as the public and being like, that was sick, man. That was awesome. I don't want to imagine that. Like, truly. Like,

Like people would bring their kids to those things. Yeah. We've come a long way in a lot of ways, but not really as well. I don't know about that. I remember when I, whenever I watch political shows, I'm like, whenever we, like when we watch stuff like 300 and stuff and they're like a dagger in the sleeve and people putting poison in cups. I'm like, that stuff's just, it's still happening. People are just wearing Tom Ford suits now. Yeah. It's true. It's true. We've come such a long way. It's like, I don't know. This happened in 1977. Yeah.

Yeah. Really not that long away. Yeah. They're like, now it's democracy. I'm like, no, that stuff just happens behind closed doors. Yeah. What? The guillotine? Yeah, no. Bro. Yeah. Star Wars is out. That's like 50 years, not even. Yeah. That is not... Damn. That's like, like my mom was born when that one happened. Yeah. I was born only a few years later. Yeah. Like less than 10. Like...

That's not eight years before your first B-Day. Yeah, you just missed the show. Yeah, eight years later, I came into this world. I wasn't even a thot. No, you weren't.

You're like, yeah, you know, you know, just super young and like porcelain skin. I don't claim that, though. No, it's a lineal. The elders here like and I was like the next year. Oh, my goodness. Wow. What a story. But yeah, Hamida Jandubi and the guillotine. What?

A story. Thank you for telling us that. Thank you guys for listening. That horrifying tale. Thank you for bringing that beautiful, beautiful tale our way. That was a wild one, right? Yeah. That was crazy. It really was. And he was, I mean, he was evil. Also, can I just take a second before we go? Can I give you guys your flowers really quick? Because you guys had Holland Madison on your podcast a couple of times.

And I love her story and who she is. And I just, when I think about my youth and what TV was in the early 2000s and how women were exploited so crazy, like everything about the early 2000s was like pixelated mouths and pixelated bodies and, you know, Anna Nicole Smith and Holly Madison and all, you know, all these people who,

Imagine what Anna Nicole Smith podcast would be today. She's probably such an interesting and amazing person, but she was like exploited by the powers that be at the time of what they thought people wanted to see from reality television. And to hear her go on your platform and tell a story and just be like a person. I hate to... I don't mean to say it in like a misogynistic way, but like...

No, it's true. You're right. To see her get to be a person is like really cool because I only know her from the Girls Next Door show. Yeah, to get to be like her own person. Yes. And she's such an interesting person. Her and Bridget are so sweet. So smart. So sweet. So smart. So interesting. So like multifaceted. And so kind. I love them. They're just like

And it's like, I want everybody to know that. They're so amazing. Yeah. Like they are not just from the girls next door. Cause I used to love that show when I was younger. Like we used to watch it. And now you watch it so different. You're like, that was not entertaining. That was dark. Yeah.

No, but thank you. It's like, she's amazing. I highly recommend. And Girls Next Level, their podcast is so interesting to listen to. Yes. I just wanted to give you guys, I just want to shout you guys out. I thought that was really cool. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Well, everybody, you need to go listen to Affirmative Murder. I'm telling you, we don't recommend things lightly here. You know that. So go run over and gobble up that feed because you just heard the storytelling ability. It's amazing.

Chef's kiss. Everything you need. And if you guys want to like shout out anything you have coming up, any of your socials, anything you want to shout out, just affirmative murder. Fran is taking up DJing. So you might be able to see him. Maybe get a resident. They're giving out residencies in Vegas like hotcakes these days.

I'm trying to get one. You might catch Vegas spinning some records in Vegas this summer. But other than that, Affirmative Murder, you can catch us on all the social media platforms and chat it up. We're on there talking it up with people and all that kind of good stuff. Affirmative Murders every Thursday. And we also do a listener style thing on Mondays where our listeners send us in crazy stories from their hometowns and stuff like that. So those are Monday. And yeah, Affirmative Murder. Check us out. Hell yeah.

They rock. No, you don't have a choice. Do it. Do it. Keep it that weird. All right, guys. So go listen to Affirmative Murder and we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you don't go listen. I was going to say Affirmative Murder, but I stumbled. We kind of did that. Oh, man.

If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.

BP added more than $130 billion to the U.S. economy over the past two years by making investments from coast to coast. Investments like building EV charging hubs in Washington state and starting up new infrastructure in the Gulf of Mexico. It's and, not or. See what doing both means for energy nationwide at bp.com slash investing in america.