Trump Tries to Spin Poor Debate Performance | John Heilemann
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Welcome to The Daily Show. I'm Jordan Klepper. We got so much to talk about. Kamala Harris wins her first debate. Donald Trump shits the debate bed. And J.D. Vance shits the litter box. So, let's get right into it with our continuing coverage of Indecision 2024. Last night, Kamala Harris and Donald Trump took to the debate stage to make their cases to Taylor Allison Swift. And whoever else happened to be watching.

It was not a good night for Trump. In terms of personal tragedies for him, I'd put it somewhere between losing the 2020 election and the day Fox News started letting female anchors wear pants. Somewhere in there. And there was one moment that was probably the best example of just how badly Trump did at the debate. In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in. They're eating the cats. They're eating...

They're eating the pets of the people that live there. Sir, the question was, state your name. Now, if you were one of the many people last night wondering why Trump was shouting, they're eating the dogs! Let me explain. It started with a random Facebook post where someone accused a Haitian immigrant of stealing and eating their neighbor's daughter's friend's cat.

And if there's one thing we know about Facebook posts, it's that they're always rigorously fact-checked. But as with any unfounded rumor on Facebook, obviously this got picked up by the right-wing establishment and spread across the Internet. Even J.D. Vance promoted it while simultaneously acknowledging it was completely unfounded. You might say he jumped in the misinformation pool but kept his shirt on.

Which brings us to last night. If there's one thing we know about a racist conspiracy theory, it's that Donald Trump's brain will swallow it whole like a hungry immigrant at Petco. And that's how a random Facebook post turned into Donald Trump's campaign slogan, They're eating cats and dogs! It seemed like Trump had a rough performance. But you know what? That's just my opinion.

But you could also tell that Donald Trump was the loser because he did all the things losers do when they lose. Number one, complaining about the refs. -I thought they were very unfair, the moderators. Everybody did. -I thought it was terrible from the standpoint of ABC. It was 3-1. It was a rigged deal, as I assumed it would be, because when you looked at the fact that they were correcting everything and not correcting with her.

Yeah, man. They were correcting you because of the things you were saying. That's barely fact-checking. The moderators were reacting like normal human beings react when you hear the craziest shit you've ever heard. Like, if you were at a cocktail party and your friend said, "Trans immigrants are eating dogs in Ohio," you would say, "What the are you talking about, Stu?"

No, they aren't. You wouldn't be like, okay, thank you for that. Let's move on to foreign policy. You know what? It wasn't just blaming the refs. Another way you know Trump lost is that he was accusing his opponent of cheating. They had a rigged show with somebody that maybe even had the answers. I mean, I'll be honest. I watched her talk, and I said, you know, she seems awfully familiar with the questions. Okay, okay. Okay.

You think she was cheating because she seemed familiar with the questions? It's a presidential debate. They always ask the same questions. It's like being suspicious that someone knows all the words to take me out to the ballgame. How will you fix the economy? What's your stance on abortion? Do you promise not to overthrow the government? Standard boilerplate debate questions.

Meanwhile, Trump seemed awfully familiar with the questions that nobody asked, like, who's eating all the cats in Springfield, Ohio? But maybe the best way you know Trump lost the debate is that he repeatedly insisted he won. I think it was the best debate I've ever personally that I've had. We're getting polls that show 92 to 6, 88.

Wow!

Those certainly were numbers. Is this what Trump did during his debate prep? Memorize all the numbers between 70 and 98? In fact, every moment since the debate ended last night, Trump has been spinning and spinning and spinning. I mean, just listen to his response after Taylor Swift announced she is endorsing Kamala Harris. Well, I actually like, uh...

Mrs. I actually like Mrs. Mahomes much better, if you want to know the truth. She's a big Trump fan. I was not a Taylor Swift fan. Oh, really? Really, Donald? You prefer Brittany Mahomes? What's your top five Brittany Mahomes songs? Is this really his angle? Well, I don't care, Taylor, because I like your boyfriend's co-worker's wife better.

This has just been a day of pathetic, desperate spinning. I mean, imagine if Donald Trump spent all that energy on doing things correctly instead of pretending he did things correctly.

I mean, if he had worked harder preparing for the debate, maybe he wouldn't have had to pretend he won the debate. If he had worked harder to win in 2020, maybe he wouldn't have to pretend the election was rigged. And if he had worked harder on January 6th, maybe he could have overthrown the government and wouldn't have to be debating in the first place.

It's called work ethic, Donald. Come on. Of course, Donald Trump wasn't the only one spinning his performance last night. His aforementioned vice president, J.D. Vance, was asked about why Donald Trump ranted about illegal immigrants eating pets. And his response was illuminating. Why...

push something that's not true. Well, first of all, city officials have not said it's not true. They've said they don't have all the evidence. They said they have no evidence. We've heard from a number of constituents on the ground, Caitlin, who both firsthand and secondhand reports saying this stuff is happening. So they very clearly, meaning the people on the ground dealing with this, think that it is happening. And I think that it's important for journalists to actually get on the ground and uncover this stuff for themselves.

Okay, I'm sorry. This is not my main takeaway from the story, but someone's cat went missing, so they called their senator? I mean, were they like, hmm, should I go right to the president of the United States, or should I start with my senator? You got to update those emergency numbers on your fridge, Barry. Come on. But perhaps, perhaps J.D. Vance has a point. If a story bubbles up from the right-wing sewer, it is our obligation...

our duty in the mainstream media to investigate it no matter the cost. And that is exactly what we have done here at The Daily Show. I sent Ronny Chieng undercover to Springfield to find out if illegal migrants are really gobbling up our small-town cats. Let's go live to him now. Ronny. Ronny. Ronny, how-how is the investigation going?

Well, Jordan, I'm in Ohio in a f***ing cat costume trying to get migrants to eat me. So it's not great. Also, it's not working, okay? I even tenderized myself with a jerk rub and went around saying, meow, meow, I'm so tasty. Nothing. Okay, yeah, well, obviously you're not gonna fool anyone with a half-assed meow like that. You need to commit to the role, Ronnie. Hey, hey, don't tell me how to commit, all right? How many Marvel movies are you in, okay? Trust me.

Trust me, okay? I've tried everything. I shit in a box. I batter around some yarn. I play with a dead mouse I found. Nothing. Have you been licking your butthole? I can't reach my butthole. Did you try to reach your butthole? Yes, I've tried to reach my butthole, okay? I can't. It's impossible. Which I already knew for reasons I don't want to discuss. Okay, well, then what are we going to do about these allegations? I don't know, Jordan. How about we ignore them?

Good journalism doesn't mean we have to take every insane, racist conspiracy theory at face value, okay? Let's just shit on it and move on like I did in a box earlier. Wow. Wow. You know what? You know what, Ronnie? Maybe you're right. I appreciate you taking journalistic principles so seriously. You're really following in the footsteps of Edward R. Miao Ro. Ronnie, did you hear what I said? I said Edward R. Edward R. Miao Ro. Yeah, I heard what you said, right? Okay, okay, okay.

Wish you were dead, all right? Anyway. Oh, oh, oh, wait. Oh, oh, oh, wait, wait. Someone's coming. Someone's coming. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. They're getting out of their car. They're coming for me. They're coming for me. Hey, Roddy. Roddy, are you there? Roddy, are you there? Hello, Roddy. Yes, yes, I'm here. Oh. Oh, thank God. Okay. What happened? Were you kidnapped by a hungry immigrant? No, no, no. I think I was adopted by a childless cat lady. Oh. All right.

Okay. Hang tight. Ronny, hang tight. We're sending someone to bring you back. Oh, actually, you know what? Hold off. She's in the kitchen cooking me some organic chicken right now. I want to see how this plays out. Awesome. I love these things. Okay. Have fun, Ronny. Ronny Chang, everyone. We'll come back. We'll find out how the city of Philadelphia is taking your money so don't go away.

It's time for a brand new season of Survivor. And you know what that means. It means it's also a brand new season of the only official Survivor podcast on fire. Here's our goal with this podcast. We bring you inside the how and the why of what we do on the show. And we do it from three different points of view. You have the producer in me. You have the fan in Jay, who also happens to be our executive producer in this podcast. And you have the producer in me.

And then we bring you the insight from a former player, and this season it is Survivor 46 runner-up, Charlie Davis. Welcome to the team, Charlie. Well, Jeff, I know firsthand that playing from the couch and playing on the island, completely different. So I hope you tune in every single week. We're going to dissect the strategy, the misfires and mistakes that change the game. If you want more Survivor than just 90 minutes, this is where you get it. On Fire, the only official Survivor podcast.

Listen to On Fire, the official survivor podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to The Daily Show. Last night's debate took place in Philadelphia, a critical city in the upcoming election. But if you're a resident who plans to vote there, you might want to be careful where you park your car on the way to the voting booth. Michael Kosta has more. City parking.

It's a hell for those who choose to live in urban areas. But in Philadelphia, the eating shit and public capital of America, if you're not keeping up with parking rules, they'll move your car for you. Isn't that great? It's called courtesy towing and Philadelphians love it. My car was moved from a legal parking spot to a illegal parking spot as what they call a courtesy tow.

I have a parking permit for the street parking and there was a temporary no parking sign put up within a couple days and I was out of town. So it was then towed to an illegal parking spot by the city and then it was towed down to the PPA impound lot which is where we are and then moved to the auction lot because it was about to be auctioned off. So you parked in a legal spot with a legal permit? Correct.

Eventually your car was in the impound lot. Correct. Did you park shitty? Just be honest. No. Gary, Gary, Gary. Forget the cameras. I am a very legal parker. Be very careful where you park your car. You're going to get ticketed.

Let me just side with big government for a sec. I hear a lot of people bitching about the tow truck man. I've been towed once or twice. But I know I parked it legally. There's courtesy towing, which is for weather, for events, and typically they're supposed to put up no parking signs. It happened less than 12 hours after I had parked there. When I got back to my car, it wasn't there. Okay.

I called the PPA a couple times, not helpful. Finally just called the police, who then was able to tell me, "Based on your license plate, it's at 15th and Washington." - This is called a courtesy tow? - Yeah. - Well, that's nice. That's nice, no? - I mean, it would be. It would be if they parked my car legally. So we're walking up to 15th and Washington. There's my car, and it's parked in the median, like in the turn lane, which-- - Weird. - Yeah.

See the four tickets on it. - Oh, there's four tickets on it. - Four tickets on it. - They courtesy towed your car to a different location, to an illegal spot, and then you start to acquire tickets

from that illegal spot. The one common factor in these stories? The PPA, or Philadelphia Parking Authority. But why was this beloved governmental agency courtesy-towing its residents in the first place? It's very profitable, and everybody knows that. I waited about an hour and a half to get in, and then had to pay $964. What? Yeah. They have a tow fee, the ticket fees, and then the impound lot daily storage fee. And it's a money-making program

All right, well, how bad could a couple extra fines be, especially since the PPA helps fund cash-trapped schools in Philly?

Well, it turns out they haven't been honoring their agreement with the city, withholding close to $78 million because of alleged financial mismanagement. The money is not going to the schools. One group holding the parking authority accountable is the Pay Up PPA Coalition. I met with organizer Rochelle Nicole Solomon in one of Philadelphia's historic green spaces.

The mission of Pay Up PPA is to have the Philadelphia Parking Authority be accountable, be transparent,

and to have a specific amount of reoccurring funding every year to the school district of Philadelphia. So in Philadelphia, the parking authority's leftover revenue goes to the education system? Yes, yes. $45 million a year estimate to the school district of Philadelphia from the on-street parking, but the money is not going to the schools, which means one of two things, or maybe both.

One, they were lying, or two, that the leadership, both the director and the board, are grossly incompetent. And your opinion is getting ticketed or towed by the PPA a right of passage for Philadelphia residents? I don't know about a right of passage, but probably everybody can check that off their list. I mean, I've been towed.

My husband's been told we all get tickets. I mean, it's part of life. There goes one right there. That's one of our guys right now getting a ticket as we speak. Good luck trying to fight that. Anyway, back to the interview.

What can Philadelphians do to combat some of the corruption of the PPA other than throw batteries or riot on Broad Street? I think there's some room in between those two things, right? I think they need to ask questions. Show up at the parking authority board meeting and say, pay up, PPA. It was time for the PPA to pay up. So I did what any good citizen would. I went into the PPA unsolicited with a camera and microphone.

How you doing? You probably know who I am, but I'm Michael Kosta with The Daily Show. And I just wanted to talk to somebody on camera about the PPA's courtesy tow policy. So we're going to have to ask you to step back over. Okay. And we can't have this interview. Okay, so I'm being asked to leave? Yep. Okay, but do you mind if I use your toilet? I got a bus about to leave the station. I need the property. Okay. Thank you. Well, I just want to talk to you, but I got courtesy towed out of there.

So there you have it, Philadelphians. The PPA is screwing you and your public schools over. The good news is, I'm a New Yorker. I don't have to give a shit about any of this. Son of a bitch. What the f*** is this? $175? F*** this city and f*** the PPA. Thank you, Michael. When we come back, John Halliman will be joining me on the show. Don't go away. Thank you.

It's time for a brand new season of Survivor. And you know what that means. It means it's also a brand new season of the only official Survivor podcast on fire. Here's our goal with this podcast. We bring you inside the how and the why of what we do on the show. And we do it from three different points of view. You have the producer in me. You have the fan in Jay, who also happens to be our executive producer in this podcast. And you have the producer in me.

And then we bring you the insight from a former player, and this season it is Survivor 46 runner-up, Charlie Davis. Welcome to the team, Charlie. Well, Jeff, I know firsthand that playing from the couch and playing on the island, completely different. So I hope you tune in every single week. We're going to dissect the strategy, the misfires and mistakes that change the game. If you want more Survivor than just 90 minutes, this is where you get it. On Fire, the only official Survivor podcast.

Listen to On Fire, the official Survivor podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to The Daily Show. My guest tonight is a best-selling author, chief political columnist, and partner at Puck, and host of the InPolitic podcast. Please welcome John Heilman. ♪♪

I knew there would be some Wu-Tang apparel when you walked out here. Well, after you sung the praises of Wu-Tang at that Chicago convention show. You saw that? Yeah, of course I did. You talked about how that era, 1991, 1995, four best years in American history. I agreed. You agreed, right? I agreed. I'm a little disappointed. They promised me Desi tonight. They did promise you Desi. That's why I'm here. I mean, I love you, but like, you know, I was like, I wanted to get the best sub-John host. First of all, I don't consider myself a sub-John host. I am the host of the goddamn Daily Show. You will respect that.

And you should understand that all of the best groups have a lot of members. ODB, JZA, RZA, Master Killer, Inspector Deck. These are groups. Plans, if you will. I can't believe you. I can't believe some of the ones you're leaving out there, like Meth, who's going to come over here and beat the shit out of you for that. But...

But here's how you know that I actually knew it was you. Okay. After all that discussion that we had on my podcast last week about the food of Chicago. Yes, I was slumming it and I did your podcast. He did. And he was great. He was great. You got to listen to it in Politics with John Heilman. Here's the thing. Good promo. So you didn't come to Philly. No, I didn't. You know what they make in Philly? What do they make? Cheesesteaks. Cheesesteaks, famously. There's two of them.

two famous cheesesteak makers. Yes, I've been to one of them. Which one? Gino's, I think. Well, we got... Now, these were purchased after... They're open 24 hours. These were purchased in the middle, like about 3 a.m. It's Pat's and Gino's, right? Pat's and Gino's right next to each other. Gino's Steaks, right?

Wait, you're bringing me old meat? Well, no, no. These were transported from Philadelphia as if they were severed limbs, okay? Like, on ice, very well, like, just really hygienic. Don't worry. It's going to be great. But yeah, cold?

- Old Cheez Whiz, there's nothing better. There's nothing better. And this is Pat's King of Steaks. Now these place have been operating in Philadelphia for like 80 years. They're a block away from each other. And people will fight you in Philly over which one of these is better. - Yeah. - They're indistinguishable. If you take one of these pieces of steak and cover it in Cheez Whiz, which is what you're supposed to do, and onions,

You can't tell the difference. You don't have to eat it now, because I know eating on the air is not cool, but I wanted to make sure that you had an offering. An offering. What do you think these people want to see, John? This is the smartest audience on television. Eat it. Let's do it. You know what?

We're going to do it. I tell you what, we're going to do it. This is all going to live on the web now because this interview has already gone 17 minutes into. Okay, so I'm starting with my genos. Okay, I'm going to try this. And as I'm trying this, I want you to encapsulate as if we are eating in Philadelphia your experience last night at the debate in Philadelphia. First things first, she kicked his ass.

Now, I heard John last night talking about how, you know, this is a matter of opinion. People will claim various things. Here's the fundamental truth about campaigns. Both sides have either directly under their auspices or in super PACs, they do this thing called dial groups. Mm-hmm.

They get undecided voters in battleground states to watch the debate in real time. And they say you've seen these things where they crank the dial. Do they approve? They disapprove. And that's how they that's all they're looking at is what the dials are showing them. Later, they will look at polling. But on that night internally, they're getting that essentially in real time based on the answer that they're having. And at the end of the night, they know two things.

Did their candidate perform well with the dial groups? And the dial groups are meant to be representative of groups they're trying to reach and bring over onto their side. And they will know what worked, what are the things that work best.

By the end of the night, if you know someone at a high level of the campaign, or either campaign, or both campaigns, says, I might, you will know by the end of the night what the group said, what the dial said, basically, is what they'll say. Yeah. And I would say this is a rare moment where the Harris campaign and the Trump campaign were in agreement. The dial said that she kicked his ass. Really? And the Trump campaign was aware of that? Because I don't know if you saw, Donald Trump had numbers. I think one of them was 90, one of them was 74. Oh, yeah.

I think there was a pie squared in there. He had numbers. I thought that was the funniest part when he came into the spin room because, like, Trump is full of shit most of the time. He makes up all kinds of things. But that was one of those things that was the most made-up thing on Earth. And, of course, like the story about how Alberta and America wanted Roe v. Wade to go away, which we'll come back to, it was easily verifiable because, of course, all the networks were going to put up their numbers on

You know, CNN was broadcasting numbers that half an hour later and showing that in fact all their their Insta polls, but you know showed that Harrison won and I'll tell you the other thing is that what she did best on Were all the abortion related questions all the stuff about women's reproductive rights Those were the things that stretch she had about two and a half minute answer when she really Started to come on strong in the debate and she got very she was very emotional very direct very powerful they those the dial groups loved that and

that was off the charts, even in the, I mean, in the, these are all undecided voters. So they're essentially different groups that the campaigns are monitoring, but they're all, there are no Trump fans in these groups. And there's no Harris fans. These are, you know, ostensibly people who haven't made it

haven't made up their mind. They're undecided. They're psychotic and sane people who I can't wrap my head around. But these undecided-- I mean, there was some poll that around 30% of people wanted to know more from Kamala Harris. What did people actually learn about Kamala Harris? Well, I'll tell you what. I think there's two ways to look at that. When you think about this from the Harris' strategic standpoint,

One thing was that was the New York Times Sienna poll basically said there was a lot of people who still don't feel like they know very much about her and they wanted to know more. That was one thing that you could have tried to aim to do. Tell your story more, try to explain some of your changes on positions, all that sort of stuff, right? But if you look back at the history of presidential debates, the way that they are often remembered as who won them and who lost them is on one metric and one metric alone, which is like who commands the stage? Who

who commanded the sphere of battle. And for a candidate who's in their first general election presidential debate,

Bill Clinton and others would say. Americans are watching to see whether they can imagine this person as the commander in chief, as president of the United States. Can they go toe-to-toe with an adversary in the moment? Do they command the debate? Is the image of command left in people? It's a plausibility test. And I just think there's no one with eyes in their head who didn't think that Kamala Harris was the one who commanded the stage last night. And that's why between the dial groups and just the plain obvious thing that Trump as president

maniacal, irrational, mentally, psychologically, emotionally, spiritually failing, as he is at this moment. She was, you know, was she perfect? No, but she was strong, right? And I think that she came across as strong, and she decided to play that prosecutor role, and she played it really well. She was incredibly, as you said, incredibly well-prepared.

And she kept coming back to her themes that she wanted to hit. And I just, I mean, I can't, as a debate, quad debate, which is not how are people going to vote. Eight weeks from now is when the election day is. These people are still undecided. Most of you are not waking up today going, okay, I've decided. Well, she looked presidential. Yes, and as you said off camera, I think, to these fine people out here, you know, you're dealing with a lunatic.

You're dealing with a pathologically lying, insurrection-fermenting, democracy-degrading, defiling asshole. Allegedly. So it's a tough challenge. Imagine what that, you know, the challenge involved in doing that and holding your composure. And I'll say, you know, because...

No one did this better than Jon did on the night of the first debate. I get it. You like Jon Stewart. Well, he did look-- he's like, you're a comedy hero. I like Jon Stewart as well. OK, yes. But he put up those pictures of Biden slack-jawed. It was a four box. And he's like, when they did the debate prep, did nobody show him these pictures? Because these don't look great.

She was so aware of the split screen and how the split screen would work that I feel like it was like a bizarro world Biden debate a lot of ways last night right because Trump the split screen that that with with that with Harris Was doing to Trump what the split screen with Biden did to Biden right Biden suffered in that split screen with Trump and Trump suffers in that split screen with her he looked angry and

Almost throughout. He did without the sound on. I don't disagree. And I do think I think Kamala looked more than adept. She did look presidential. I think she was was masterful in many ways of both seeming above the fray, but also poking him as well. Yes. But this audience is different. I think people don't see Donald. I don't believe people saw that and saw Donald Trump for the first time as a diminished man.

He looked angry, but angrier has been something that he's been selling the American public, and there's that 45% who love that. Do you actually think that that diminished... I don't think you're going to take away Trump voters from Trump. I think what she's trying to get across, I think, now is that...

He is not just the old candidate in the race now. The generational contrast. She wants to be changed. She wants to be younger. And she is, in some ways, implicitly pushing, like, the argument that took down Biden, which is that, I mean, Donald Trump's mental acuity, I say this not in just a trashing him kind of way, which I'm happy to do sometimes. I think about a minute and a half ago. But he just...

But he's getting worse. I mean, he's never been wholly linear. Let's put it that way, right?

But if you go back to 2016, when he really won the election against Clinton, in those last 10 or 12 days of the election, they managed to get him to talk about trade, the border wall, China. And he was actually a pretty disciplined candidate for the crucial 10 or 12 days of the election. Now, there are a lot of Republicans who look at, well, she has this momentum. What's going to change between now and Election Day that will halt her momentum? One thing is like some external event, you know, you know,

Vladimir Putin does something, China does something, some kind of cyber war, a Russian, a Martian invasion, you know, that someone has to repel on the White House lawn. Another is Harris, you know, she messes up somehow. She didn't do that last night, right? We will all agree about that.

And the third thing which Republicans all are hoping for and praying for, and that what they've been trying to beg Trump to do, is be a disciplined, focused, rigorous, consistent candidate. Make these arguments. That's we're begging him to do it with this idea in mind that he can pull it together in these last eight weeks and become this thing that occasionally he was in the past. I just think if you watch that debate last night,

There's none of that there. There's none of that there. When he started talking about the dogs and cats and the pets being killed, do you know how that question started? I don't remember. It started with David Muir asking him about immigration. Now, in the Biden debate, go back to my bizarro world thing, in the Biden debate, rightly, Biden got a question about abortion, his strength, and turned it into an immigration question. And that's when you knew he'd really lost it. You're like, what are you doing? You're talking about immigration. They set you up. They put it on the tee. Abortion. Talk about Roe v. Wade.

Last night, Trump got asked about immigration. Here's the issue he wants to talk about. That's a sweet spot. But Harris had baited him on the crowd size thing. He turned away from immigration and then proceeded to discuss the size of his crowds. World War III was coming. The size of his crowds again. And then the apparent, obviously completely made up, holocaust of the cats, dogs, and pets in Ohio.

Bear in mind that in the last hundred years of occupants of the White House, every single one of them has had a pet. Except for Donald Trump. Because he's a sociopath. Maybe he doesn't like to snack at night. The guy cares less about dogs and cats than any occupant of the White House ever does.

And that includes, like, other bona fide sociopaths. Well, it is such an example, too. You give Donald Trump enough time. He's not prepped for anything. He's always grasping at straws. And frankly, he's only got a handful of straws, right? He's got his immigration as well. He's got a couple things he's going to bang that drum. And whatever he read on the internet that

day. And that's what you see getting amplified. He brings the internet to life. And you saw when he arrived in Philly, Laura Loomer, who's like literally the craziest person on the right. Crazier than anybody in the history of the right. That's a hell of a crown to wear, I gotta tell you. When she got off the plane, you knew. You were like, he's going to be talking about the cat carnage in the non-existent cat carnage in Ohio. And I will say this again to the question of can he be a disciplined candidate? What's the other thing he was supposed to do last night?

tie Kamala Harris to Joe Biden's economic record. The first time he mentioned it was at the one hour and 24 minute mark of a one hour and 30 minute debate. And the way he mentioned it was to say, she is Joe Biden. She is Joe Biden. And again, back to the split screen, Kamala Harris is like, I don't really think I'm Joe Biden. Nope.

I mean, can people see that I'm not Joe Biden? He did it. He finally decided to do what he did so badly that she could just, like, knock it away with a laugh line. Well, she got asked that question right off the bat, and she said, I'm going to talk about my history. Yes, totally. And you heard J.D. Vance afterwards in the spin room where I was talking about how, you know, Trump made these points in his closing statement. I'm like, ha-ha. Now, that's a strong candidate, the one who remembers, hey, it's my closing statement. I might want to say that thing about Biden, you know, at the end here. Do people around... I guess my question, do people around him...

One, do they really have an expectation of changing Donald Trump in that way? And two, do they have a sense of what truly is happening? I hear the moment where Donald Trump comes out and he has those bullshit numbers. And of course he's always pulling out numbers that make the most sense to him. But are they giving him numbers that make him comfortable in that moment? What is their awareness? The Trump circle, what is their awareness of what is happening? It's not a monolith, right? You know, Trump has now brought Corey Lewandowski back into the fold.

Corey Lewandowski is the ultimate "Let Trump be Trump" candidate. Corey was exiled. Now he's back. His job is to do things that make Trump happy so that he will not be exiled again.

The professionals in that group, people like Chris LaCivita, the campaign manager, and Suzy Wiles, the co-campaign manager, you would say whatever you want about them and their values or whatever in working for Trump, but there are professional people who've run important campaigns before, and they are the ones begging Donald Trump to please talk about how she's a San Francisco liberal, talk about how she's a flip-flopper, talk about how she's a phony, try to make her explain how she went from being in favor of all these liberal positions to being against them, and they are...

I think constantly must live in hope because if they don't live in the hope that they can change him in some way, you know, the world is very cold and dark. If you think that if you think that this Donald Trump is going to be the Donald Trump you're going to get for the next 55 days before Election Day, because that's a Donald Trump. I'm not saying you can't win, Jordan, because it's going to be really, really close. But man, I think, you know, every Republican strategist in the country looks and says, if this guy ran a standard Republican campaign against her,

There's a playbook, and he would appreciably increase his odds of winning if he were to be able to remotely execute that. And we have no sign that he can. There's this also the thing, we were talking about this a little bit before, you know, I've been in a lot of spin rooms in my life. And I'm very impressed.

Pretty cool room to be in. You get to hang out with this caramucci now and then. You get to be with the mooch. Here's the thing about this. People go, oh, are you in there? Somebody wrote to me last night, a friend who said, were you in the room where it happens? I'm like, no, the press is never in the room where it happens. We don't sit in the debate hall. We sit in a room next to the room where it happens, and we all get to sit together in a giant room watching it on TV, just like you at home. And the only advantage is that when it's over, a bunch of professional liars come out and we get to be lied to to our face. But that...

And I never miss it. But it feels like, we talked about this in the beginning of our show, it feels like Trump thinks that is the room where it happens.

happens while he doesn't he doesn't prep for debate to articulate a vision of the future to America he preps for a time to lick his wounds and bullshit the press with more cameras that's that's where all his energy goes you got the show totally people should be performing for you that's a nightmare percent what people should be Trump should be performing for the people at home he doesn't see it that way.

You know, I think I may have told you this story for a little while in 2015, 2016. Don't retell me a story, for God's sakes. Well, these people I haven't heard. Trump liked me for a little while. He liked you, is that right? I wrote a tweet about him when he first entered the race in 2015. I said, you know, the Republican Party is getting more racist, nationalist, and xenophobic. I think Donald Trump has a chance to win. And I saw him. I had a face-to-face interview with him the next day, and he said, after he had tweeted, Atchay Hollis finally started to understand me.

And I went and did this interview with him and I said, you know, I thought you might be pissed. And he was like, no. At that moment, it was there were people who didn't think he could win and people who thought he could win.

Binary and if you were on the side of people who took him seriously He didn't care why you could have said the whole country's now members of the Ku Klux Klan Donald Trump's gonna shoo in he would've been like thank you for understanding He didn't care. He just didn't want to be he didn't like the people who were saying he has no chance. He's buffoon He's doing this as a branding exercise I was on the other side and for a little while whenever I would see him he would say Heilman You're starting to understand me. We're both German and that always freaked me out

Because I'm not, like, really German in any meaningful way, you know? And the name, I'm German from German descent, but I'm not like, I didn't, like, grow up in Munich, you know? It's not my... But he saw something in you. Yes, it was very, like, it was always, like, a lot of, like, he's always, like, you know, like, yeah, yeah, so you're starting to come around on Trump. Is it the haircut you think? The meaner I was, the more he liked me until he then got an office and my Secret Service code name became that mother...

Well, that's a step up. That's a step up, right? That's a step up. I'll tell you what you can see in the spin room last night, though, is that it's not hard to know the things that you find out from your sources about how the dial groups went. Yeah. It's not hard to read the faces. And I will tell you, I posted a tweet last night. I took a picture as I was walking out of Matt Gaetz's

What's his name? Stephen Miller. Stephen Miller. Matt Gaetz, Stephen Miller, and the skinniest, most incel-y looking guy in the world who was carrying their little sad sign out in the spin room because they have a little person who carries a sign. If you were in the spin room, they would carry a little sign that would say Klepper on it. Lovely. Or if they wanted to get some attention, it would say Stewart. Okay, the goddamn it.

And that'd be, boy, or Desi, or Desi. Unbelievable. I'm going to, okay, you know what? I'm going to get it done. Or Roy Wood. Or Roy Wood. Or Roy Wood. Yeah, there you go. Jordan's having a hard time with that wax there. It's a hard wax. It's a hard wax. It's a hard. Have you been skimping on the gym sessions lately? I'm waiting until after the election. You know, this will be good later. But here, I'll help you.

But this picture, now I'm not going to be able to do it. Yeah, I was going to say, look at this. Look at this. It's tough. God, is there no one around here? This is the rye, though. The bourbon's much easier. Is there no one around here who can help us here? That's really what waxed on. Is it? It's like Miyagi. Wax on, wax off. Stay focused. All right, I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm trying.

I gotta wrap this up. This ain't a f***ing podcast, okay? Gates, Gates, Gates Miller and this little skinny kid. Yeah. Right? They look so sad. And, you know, I saw the various response tweets people would say, you know, an incel, a neo-Nazi and a pedophile walk into a bar.

That's the way a lot of great jokes start. And Matt Gates was wearing these white, like, Skechers with, like, black jogging pants as his suit bottoms and then a suit jacket on top. I mean...

He looked like he was ready for Del Boca Vista, basically. I mean, honestly, I think that's a step forward. If he's trying to appeal to the older folks, I think, you know, I'll take it with Matt Gaetz. But I'll tell you, when I looked at that, I was thinking about, you know, what I had thought as I heard about the dial groups from the insiders of the campaign. I thought, you know, David Plouffe,

David Binder, the focus group pulling impresario from Obama who's now working for Harris, they are not like champagne popping types. You know, they're like, they like try to keep, but they were metaphorically popping champagne corks last night and how well they were handed it. In the Trump world, they were popping like, either like Maalox or Klonopin, I don't know which, but they were, they were not, and when those guys showed up and I looked at them, I was like, those guys are either very, very sad

Very, very drugged up. Or someone killed their pets. They lost their... They look like a bunch of guys who had their cats and dogs taken out by some imaginary Haitians in Ohio. Yeah, take it from the sad man in the Skechers. I think that's how the debate went. Be sure to check out John's column at Puck and his podcast, In Politics, with John Heilman. We'll be right back after this.

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