Trump's Happy-Go-Lucky Debate Strategy
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What's up, Phoenix? Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jane Koston. I'm Jon Lovett. Tommy Vitor. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. We have a great show for you tonight. Your next senator from the great state of Arizona, Ruben Gallego, is here. Yay!

We are also especially excited to have Jane with us tonight because she comes bearing big news. Starting Monday, Jane is going to be the new host of our daily news podcast, What a Day. That's right. You get to hear from me 20 minutes a day, every day, and it won't be about Michigan football, which doesn't exist for right now for reasons that I don't want to get into. Everything's totally fine. Notre Dame lost. Everything's fine.

So exciting. We got Jane to move to L.A. and everything. I know. Pacific Coast, it's been beautiful, but I could not be more excited to be here in Phoenix, Arizona. You know, ASU is playing right now, but I'd like to remember. See? See? Divided loyalty. I'm sorry. I've got to say, go Sun Devils. But, most importantly...

Why was Carrie Lake at a Texas A&M game? Yeah, that was weird. With Ted Cruz. Like, with Ted Cruz, who, by the way, I really wish Ted Cruz had made it to Michigan, Texas, because that game would have gone very differently. Hey, and for anybody gay here... Hey, hey. They know what I mean, and you know what I mean. All right, fine. I don't understand either. It's fine.

All right, let's get to the news. Our last live show was exactly 50 days ago in Madison, Wisconsin. Less than 48 hours before Joe Biden passed the torch to Kamala Harris after...

the most consequential debate in history. We are now 70 hours away from the first and so far only scheduled debate between Harris and Donald Trump just one week before early voting begins in the 2024 election.

Who's got a pit in their stomach? I don't feel good, but I feel better than I would. There you go. I'll take that. The vice president is off the trail preparing for the debate in a Pittsburgh hotel. There's a replica stage, practice sessions, and a Trump stand-in who's gone full method.

Shout out, Philippe. Philippe Reines. I worked with Philippe almost 20 years ago when I was first in D.C., and there is no one who would spend more time and effort learning every single mannerism and fact about a person than Philippe, but kind of

deep and broken obsession. For people who don't know, Philippe also played Donald Trump to help prep Hillary Clinton during the 2016 debates. He was also full method then. Wore like boxy suit, ties, did the whole thing. I don't know that he ever came out of it, frankly. I got dinner with him a couple years ago. He ordered his burger well done.

He's been stuck for the last nine years, whatever it's been. Anyway, Trump himself, ever the wonk, is preparing with what he calls policy time, which involves, I guess, huddling with his advisors and this. Her favorite show is Law and Order, and there's an almost exact...

story as her story in Law and Order about being attacked in the dressing room of a department. So I never met the woman other than this picture, which could have been AI generated. I don't know. Showed up out of nowhere, but it's fine. Nice picture. And I'm disappointed in my legal talent, I'll be honest with you. But this is a disgraceful case and disgraceful in particular because it's about a former president of the United States

who is now leading in the polls. If you look at the Nate Silver, very respected guy, I don't know him, but he has me up by a lot. I'm going into very hostile territory shortly on a debate with ABC, George Slapadopoulos and that group. And ABC, I think, is the worst of everybody. I think they're the worst.

So I guess that was the message event for Friday. That's what they were pushing ahead of the debate. Quick 50-minute press conference, no questions. No questions. No questions. Just complaining about his legal troubles. And Jane, he was complaining about his legal troubles even though he got mostly good news this week on that front. The judge just postponed sentencing for his felony conviction until a few weeks after the election. Oh.

You know, the wheels of justice. And the judge in the January 6th trial said that that won't begin until well into 2025, all of which means the outcome of this election for Trump is either the White House or the big house.

Not your big house. Not mine. Not mine. To be clear. How do you think, if at all, Kamala Harris should handle this in the debate? And then more broadly, what's the overall case you think she should be prosecuted? I mean, personally, if she just spent a lot of time going, look at this fucking guy. Like...

I nearly got distracted for a minute because when I was in high school, I used to come home every day and watch Law & Order, and I was like, all right, which season are we talking about? Because if Sam Watterson's involved, I'm in. But I really think that, like, something that she... I mean, she's talked about this before, that, like, remember in 2016 when he was, like, stalking Hillary Clinton around? And Kamala was like, if that would have been me, I would have turned around and been like, why are you being so weird? Like...

Did she say that? She did. That's cool. I think that if she talks about the issues that matter to people and also points out the fact that he is physically incapable of talking about anything that doesn't have to do with himself or the movie Bloodsport, which I will talk about, you know, if it would help him lose the presidential election, I will discuss the movie Bloodsport with him. All day.

Is there a split in that movie, right, where he splits? He does a split and he holds it between two countertops, if I remember. Jean-Claude Van Damme. We're all over that part. I remember that scene. The signs were there. LAUGHTER

Dan, let's talk about the rules of the debate, which are now set and similar to the Biden-Trump match in June. No audience, no pre-written notes, mics muted when the other candidate is speaking, which the Harris campaign tried pretty hard to reverse. Apparently, the campaign still thinks there may be chaotic exchanges where ABC is forced to unmute both mics. You mean there's going to be chaos with Donald Trump? I know, it's wild.

Who do you think won here? And like, how much do the rules matter, especially this whole mic debate that we've been dealing with? I think the muted mic debate matters. So as a bit of context, this is the when Biden and Trump were negotiating debates. This was something that Biden really, really wanted in the debate was for Trump's microphone to be muted because in the 2020 debates, Trump had interrupted Biden a whole bunch.

And Biden's team thought it would help them to have Trump's mic be muted. That turned out not to be the case because it sort of served as like a leash on Trump. And we didn't hear what he was muttering to himself as Biden was speaking. And so the Harris people were smart to try to get that rule changed. And Trump's people, who understand the same thing the Biden people do, also tried to stop the rule from getting changed because they know that

as the Harris people do, that Trump speaking, particularly when he's agitated, is often bad for Trump. And so the...

If you imagine a world where Kamala Harris is up there, she's saying the things she's saying, and Trump is reacting to that in real time, and we can all hear that, that's good for Kamala Harris and bad for Trump. So this is, I think, an actual win for them. But what is important, and I think was good that they pitched this fight, was ABC has agency. They can decide when it's muted and unmuted. And I think they will now feel some pressure to unmute Trump's mic periodically to try to get those organic exchanges, because I think that will end up netting out to Harris's benefit in this.

I've been thinking about this on the mics because originally I was like, yeah, it would be better for what the Harris campaign wants, which is to have them unmuted the whole time. But if they're muted, it does mean that she does not get drawn into the back and forth with Trump as much. And I wonder if that's to her benefit because her strategy, which is, I think, a little different than Biden's,

is not just to make it about Trump the whole time, but to actually talk about what she's for, who she is, what her plans are. I think she has to, no matter whether the mics are muted or unmuted, she has to not get drawn into that. That should be part of the strategic goal. But what you want, ultimately, you're right, the debate is about her. She wants to make it about her. She wants to share her story, her visions, et cetera. But...

you also want to give Trump an opportunity. You want to show the American people in full transparency what an erratic lunatic with cognitive decline Donald Trump is and allowing this microphone to be open would help. Yeah. I feel like he's going to do a pretty good job of that himself. Well, that's, yeah, I think we kind of go back and forth. Like we say a lot, right, that like,

people understand and know who Trump is, the undecided voters really want to make sure that they feel like they can get behind Kamala Harris. And so the debate is an opportunity for her to kind of put Trump aside and kind of have a conversation with the American people. I think she's adept enough to do that, whether or not Trump's muted or not. I think the fact... I just...

Should the ex-president's mic be muted because he's such a chaotic maniac that he's self-destructive and these are two adults and one of them cannot obey even the basic of rules or human forms of discipline? Like, what a sad fucking state of affairs. What are the politics of the microphones? We have to talk about it, but it's fucking insane. It just is.

I mean, I think that this goes to, I mean, I've been thinking about this a lot, about how the media, and I include a lot of institutions, have unintentionally, unintentionally, sane-washed Trump. Like, how many times have you, like, you read, like, oh, Trump said this, and you watch the video, and you're like, he's just talking about Hannibal Lecter. Yeah.

Did you see the economic club event he just did? It was just like absolute gibberish. Yeah. An hour of gibberish. His answer is on like, somehow, I believe, tariffs are going to pay for child care. Child care, yeah. But like...

Maybe that's wrong. It genuinely is the kind of thing that if somebody said that in court, you'd be like, okay. So we're gonna, you're gonna, no. So I think there is a degree to which if, I don't think the Harris campaign wants to accidentally sane wash Donald Trump.

I mean, every Trump speech was never great, right? There was not a real logical threat to them. But in this campaign, every one of them is like Adam Sandler and Billy Madison. LAUGHTER

I do think if he goes off like that, when he goes off like that and rambles like he did in that economic speech, he should have like a line or two in her pocket that's just like, well, and just like really, like, I have no idea what he meant by that or what he said, but anyway. I want to know, does he think that seeking asylum and being in an insane asylum are the same thing? That's a good question. I have to know.

Pretty sure he does. I have to know. It seems like yes that he thinks that. I'm pretty sure he does. Also, did he watch NBC's Hannibal? In which case, I have additional questions. Tommy, New York Times reports that Trump's team has, quote, urged him to be happy Trump in the debate. Ha ha ha ha ha.

Rather than mean bully Trump while pressing a policy-based case against Ms. Harris. Putting aside the likelihood of Trump embracing his happy side, how do you think Kamala should prepare for that possibility and how should she approach the debate if he is mean bully Trump?

Yeah, I think the line was happy warrior. And I did laugh out loud when I read that. Not because it was bad reporting or because it's bad advice, frankly. I mean, basically what that advisor is telling the New York Times is we hope he doesn't look like an asshole. But I think if you're a staffer, you have to advise your candidate correctly.

in a way that fits their capacities. And Trump can be very funny, but it's because he's being the meanest version of a presidential candidate you've ever seen in your life. He's talking about Marco Rubio's genitalia or Ted Cruz's wife or whatever. So there's that part. The contrast on policy, I think it's also good advice. Trump's staff knows that he

Kamala Harris. He says constantly he doesn't think she's smart. He doesn't respect her. But she's pretty. But he's angry that he's running against her. Right? And they do not want the misogynistic, racist things he says in private to come out in public. So they want him to focus on immigration, inflation, the economy, and make a policy-based argument. We'll see if he can do that. I think for Kamala, she is basically... We'll see. I know. Time will tell. It's like, we'll see if my dog can do string theory.

Can Bundit do that? I think she has three goals. One is she has to talk about her economic vision for the country. Every poll, every focus group will tell you that people want more information about what she'll do for them and for their financial situation. She has to lay that out. But two, she has to undercut Trump's record on the economy because voters view the Trump

through rose-colored glasses. They think of 2018, not 2020. And I think she needs to remind them that his only legislative accomplishment was passing the biggest tax cut, multi-trillion dollar tax cut for billionaires and corporations, and that he's promised a bunch of rich donors that if

They cut him big checks. He'll do it again. And then three, to answer your question, like she has to try to get under his skin and annoy him and piss him off and bring out like the feral Trump, Trump the Twitter feed, the brooding red face, probably COVID filled. I think being a biracial woman. I think that'll make it easy. Yeah, I think she'll be good to go. I think, but you know, he was disciplined against Joe Biden. And I think that is kind of the question is if he can do it again.

Yeah, I agree that they will, I mean, Kamala's team has been saying this, that they want her to get under his skin. I think that it's much easier to do that than you'd think. Like, I don't think she needs a bunch of zingers or, I know that the New York Times interviewed Hillary Clinton and she was talking about how, you know, when she said, you know, you're Putin's puppet, and then of course Trump went back and like, I'm not the puppet, you're the puppet, and they went back. No puppet, no puppet. No puppet.

I don't actually think you need that. I think if you just talk about the difference in policy, it will freak him out. Just criticize him. Criticize him in any way. If she says, I want to protect abortion access and he will make states monitor women's pregnancies, he will flip out.

The lesson of the great success of Kamala Harris' campaign over the last seven weeks is that the best way to get Donald Trump off his game is not to insult him. It's to ignore his insults. Yes. When he does that and she just pivots and she just like a little dirt off the shoulders and doesn't care, that drives him bananas. If you were in an insult fest with Donald Trump, you're playing his game. Well, it's what Jane said. I mean, she's not going to say, what the fuck is this guy doing?

But that vibe, I think that is the tone. Yeah. No, I think that if there are any women here who have ever been told some bullshit by a man in their late 70s, like, you know. Very specific. It's happened. You know, a man in his late 70s who stands like this.

Like, I don't know. It just seems like just noting that I'm a person who is willing to act on behalf of everyday Americans, even ones who don't like me. And this is a maniac. So go from there.

Love it. The Trump team and Trump has been like trying out a whole bunch of different attacks on Kamala. They're now telling reporters that their strategy in the debate is to force Kamala to own her partnership with Biden and take responsibility for the parts of his presidency that voters are unhappiest about. How do you think she should handle that? Yeah, first of all, I think Donald Trump can't force Kamala Harris to do anything in the debate. I think she's too smart for that. I think the most important thing

thing she can do in this debate is just sort of put him aside. The less she's addressing him, the more she's talking to the moderators, the more she's talking to the cameras, the more he's like a non-entity to her. I think the better, you know, the, the Dana Bash interview, I think was instructive because you don't have to make Kamala Harris own her role in the Biden administration. She's

well aware that she's associated with the Biden administration, she's owning that role and she's showing loyalty and saying she's proud of her, of the work they've gotten done. And I'm sure she'll say some version of how much work there is left to be done. And then I think turn to the contrast between what Donald Trump would do going forward and what she would do going forward. I do think there's also space though. This may be like gilding a lily and maybe like too cute by half. I don't know. Shouldn't have used both expressions. Uh,

It was maybe gilding the lily. It was gilding the lily. I do think there's something that people instinctively get about Trump that like, hey man, I know you like complaining from the sidelines. It's very easy from the sidelines to say how much better you'd be at everything and how everything was perfect when you were president. But we remember what it was like when you were president. We remember how you said you'd fix everything, but yet problems remained...

You bring chaos with you. You bring failure with you. You bring blame and you bring antagonism and you bring noise and you bring bullshit. The American people are very sick of that. And so we can choose between a future in which we're going to do these hard things and it won't be easy and we won't get it all right and we won't always succeed or we can go back to the bullshit and the lying and the chaos and the complaining and the antagonism and the division. And I think making that the choice and the contrast about the future is the right thing to do.

I have two thoughts on this because I think first and foremost, it's been really interesting for Donald Trump to pretend he wasn't president. I mean, believe me, if I could just black out 2016 to 2020, I would. But like the degree, like bringing in RFK and talking about like, oh, we're going to make America healthy again. I'm like,

I know. I'm sorry. To the guy who fed every national championship team McDonald's when they visited the White House. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. But more importantly, this is someone who is like, chemicals in water sounds awesome. Love it. Like, we know who this person is, and the degree to which he needs to obfuscate his own presidency is baffling to me. I will also say that, like, Afghanistan is going to come up.

Donald Trump talked a lot about getting troops out of Afghanistan. Do you remember the, like, Donald the Dove thing in 2016? Remember that? I do. The degree to which the same people who were like, you know, it's America first, we got to get out of Afghanistan. Joe Biden fucking did it. Joe Biden said, like, okay, we got to do this. This is the end of this. And, like, obviously, I wish it had gone differently. But

It is over. And it's time for it to end. And like, you know, for people who... But even more specifically on that, Donald Trump negotiated the deal with the Taliban to get us out of it. On 9-11. And Donald Trump has always said... He invited the Taliban to Camp David on 9-11. Yes. And actually, that we would have withdrawn from Afghanistan earlier under the Trump timeframe. Joe Biden extended it. Now, again, I'm with you. Like, it didn't end well. We shouldn't pretend it was. It wasn't like the most consequential airlift in history. Like...

disastrous things happened on that day. Service members lost their lives. A lot of people helped out the United States were left behind. But the fact that Trump whitewashed his own record on Afghanistan makes me crazy. No, it's really frustrating to see Trump promise something to people and people be like, yes, we want that. And then someone does it. And people being, we don't like how it happened. I don't like how it happened either, but someone fucking did it. And I think that

There's something really to be said about how we cannot, as voters, as people, as Kamala Harris in the debate, you can't let Trump have it both ways. You can't let him be the best president and also a bystander. It's not fair, and it's not fair to us as voters. Yeah.

That is his shtick. All right. Real quick around the horn. You're talking to Kamala Harris right before she goes out on stage. What is the one thing you want her to leave voters with and do in this debate? If you have one thing to say, Dan. It is that voters want to hear Kamala Harris talk about Kamala Harris more than they want to hear Kamala Harris talk about Trump.

What they are thirsting for is information about her, her story, her visions, the kind of president she would be. We're not just one piece of bad information away from a bunch of swing voters leaving Trump. Yeah. Yeah. And you said this. I think it's just he cares about himself. I am fighting for the whole country. All he cares about is himself. That's it. And I'm for everyone. Okay. We're going to take a quick break. But when we come back, you're going to hear from Chris Love of Arizona for Abortion Access.

Conclave is a gripping thriller from Academy Award-winning director Edward Berger, starring Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, and Isabella Rossellini, only in theaters October 25th. The Pope is dead. The throne is vacant. Conclave is an unprecedented and illuminating glimpse into the inner workings of the Catholic Church as it follows one of the world's most secretive and ancient events, selecting the new Pope.

Conclave is only in theaters October 25th. Visit conclavethefilm.com to get tickets now. Pod Save America is brought to you by Brooklinen. With all the life that happens in your bedroom with pets, family, hobbies, me time, date night, etc. A lot carried in that etc. Am I right, John? Give me a high five, huh? For etc. How does your bedroom re-energize you, John?

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Therapy is great. It is, John. It is helpful for learning positive coping skills and how to set boundaries. It empowers you to be the best version of yourself. And it isn't just for those who've experienced major trauma. Everyone can use therapy. Just great to talk to someone. I texted my therapist. I said, I'm coming back after this election. Either way, win or lose. She's like, who is this? New number. Yeah.

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As you know, sometimes the choices in politics can be pretty stark. Here in Arizona, you have the folks who love the 1864 abortion ban, and then you have the folks working night and day to enshrine abortion rights in your constitution through Prop 139. Joining us now is Chris Love, spokesperson for Arizona for Abortion Access. Welcome, Chris. Hey, Chris. Hey, how are you?

Well, I was nervous, but what a warm welcome. Good evening, Arizona. So I'm thrilled to speak to you guys tonight, right? First, I want to thank the relentless and really damn funny and smart advocates at Pod Save for coming to Phoenix and for giving me a few minutes to tell you the story of Proposition 139, the Arizona Abortion Access Act.

So let me take you back a couple of years. In 2022, when Trump's Supreme Court threw away 50 years of legal precedent to destroy Roe versus Wade, I know boo his. They created chaos all over the country and definitely here in the state of Arizona.

It caused doctors and nurses to fear that they might lose their licenses and their freedom because the laws that we had still on the books included criminal penalties for anyone performing or assisting with an abortion. I know, boo. And that's on top of fearing for the health and safety of pregnant patients in Arizona who could no longer be legally treated.

What happened in Arizona in 2022 was dangerous and unjust. And it's why reproductive rights, healthcare, and voting rights organizations got together to create what is now Proposition 139, the Arizona Abortion Access Act. So Prop 139 is a constitutional amendment that will be on our ballot this fall. And we all must vote yes on Prop 139.

It gives freedom back to patients and their doctors to make personal medical decisions that are right for them. And it gets politicians out of the way. But we still need your help to press Prop 139, right? So please go to our website, ArizonaForAbortionAccess.org, and donate because it's expensive.

Sign up to volunteer and tell everyone who'll listen why we all need to vote yes. It's going to be a long ballot, folks. Four pages this year. Yeah, exactly. And Prop 139 is going to be on the back at the bottom, right? So we need your help to get the word out. Just a little more.

This is our chance to make history again and protect right to abortion access here in Arizona, free from government interference. Yeah. But again, I need every single person in this auditorium tonight to do what you can and stand with us every day from now until November 5th. We cannot do this without you.

I'm so grateful to be in this fight with our Pod Save Phoenix folks today and with all of you. Thank you so much, and we'll see you at our victory party on November 5th. Get up for Chris Love! All right, let's get back to the news. I'm sure a lot of you were at the Arizona Biltmore on Thursday to catch the charismatic powerhouse of the 2024 cycle, Ohio Senator J.D. Vance.

You're just mad because he's so hot. So at one point, Vance was asked about the recent news that John McCain's son Jimmy, a veteran like his father, has decided to vote for Kamala Harris. Here's what he said.

I do not believe for a second that if John McCain were alive today and he sees what's going on at the American southern border, that he would support Kamala Harris and all the destruction that she's wrought. Who cares what somebody's family thinks about a presidential race? I care about what these people care about the presidential race. I really couldn't. The media is turning into a story what John McCain's family says about Donald Trump.

I'm not sure I'd be so dismissive of a family that's revered in a must-win state that went blue in 2020. But then again, I don't have J.D. Vance's political acumen. But I bring this up because the McCain brand of conservatism was once the dominant strain of politics here in Arizona not very long ago. Now we got Carrie Lake and Joe Arpaio. Woo!

You guys don't like them. Jane, you've been doing a lot of reporting on this and what's changed. What did you learn? So first and foremost, let me just say again, he went to Ohio State. Yeah, there you go. That's... There you go. That's what happens. So I had the opportunity to speak with amazing Arizona State legislator, Lorena Austin, and...

They told me about how the Republicans that they experience on a daily basis are so extreme that when they talk to other people about them, people don't believe them. You know, you talk about somebody like Wendy Rogers, who has not yet met a Nazi she's not into. Wendy Rogers, who said that, you know, we got it right in 1864. And let me just say nothing, nothing could happen in 1864. Right.

We had this really great conversation talking about how Arizona is changing, but the Republican Party here has been locked in this purity spiral of election denialism and election denialism continued. We saw this in 2020. We saw it with Carrie Lake deciding that she's actually governor, which, you know, she isn't.

What we've seen again and again, and you guys know this, you know that Arizonans are changing. Arizonans are diverse. Arizonans are thoughtful. Arizonans don't want any of this shit. And so, but to speak specifically about the Republican Party, I talked with amazing journalist Jen Fafield from VoteBeat.

Awesome writer. And she was talking about how like, yeah, you know, there's always been this swath of the Arizona GOP that has adhered to extremism. I mean, Joe Arpaio, for example, and like, you know, the Tea Party, you can go back 20, 25 years or something like that. But it really has been that since Chemtrail Kelly and,

We all remember our favorite person, Kelly Ward. So I think that there really has been this ongoing takeover of the Republican Party by extremists who, when they lose, they decide, no, no, no, I didn't lose, it was stolen. And then they double down and double down through primary after primary. And so I think that it's really important. I've got a couple of notes here because it's not just the 1864 ban. It's also Prop 314 banning

It's also Prop 137, which would be a lifetime appointment for judges, which, yeah, yeah, immediately, no, no. We've seen how that goes. So there are so many important issues to focus on in this election, especially because the Arizona legislature, if we get it to 50-50, that's Democratic trifecta in this state. Thank you.

And I think that that's something that people like Lorena, people like Chris, people are fighting for across this state. And like, while Carrie Lake can go watch Texas A&M lose, let's go see her lose here. Yeah. So, Tommy, you know, as Jane was saying, it's not just in Arizona. It's like all over the country. Losing is cool. Right. Everybody's into it.

One example of a very MAGA Republican Party nominating a very MAGA candidate is in North Carolina. Their nominee for governor is this...

Cuckoo Bananas guy, Mark Robinson. He's called gay people filth, Michelle Obama a man, Beyonce satanic, Muslims invaders, women unfit to lead, and mass shootings karma for abortions. But there was a story about him this week that was even crazier. A former employee of a video porn shop in Greensboro...

He said that about 20 years ago, Mark Robinson, he didn't just frequent the store once in a while. Five nights a week. Five nights a week, he was a regular in the porn preview booths in the porn shop. Very respectful customer, he said. Don't worry.

I know you've been following this story closely. Yeah. First of all, I don't like how you phrased that. Second of all, I'm happy to tell you about it because I am. That's what I thought. Yeah. Mark Robinson, the current lieutenant governor of North Carolina, Yeah.

Republican nominee to be governor. I mean, he became famous. He became well-known in Republican circles because right after the Parkland shooting, he went to, I think, a city hall or town hall meeting, and he gave this very high-energy speech about how gun control was wrong. And then he later said a bunch of horrible things about the Parkland students. He called them spoiled little bastards and media prostitutes, which is a

fucked up thing to say about high school kids in any context, but these were kids who had just survived a mass shooting that killed 17 people in their own high school. So I think that kind of tells you everything you need to know about Mark Robinson. Unfortunately for the Republicans in North Carolina, Mark Robinson told us much, much more about himself on Facebook over and over and over again. He was also a Holocaust denier. He used to quote Hitler all the time. He said that...

Black Panther was Jews trying to take money from black people. I think shekels. Shekels. Shekels. Shekels. It's hard to remember all the Mark Levinson quotes. No, it really is. He said that he wanted to go back to a time before women could vote. That was another one of his things.

And so, yeah, I mean, of course, what that led to was Republicans loving him and him winning the Republican nomination. And I think Donald Trump told him that he was Martin Luther King on steroids. I believe that's an exact quote. So, yeah. So didn't that man suffer enough? Yeah.

So this gets back to the story John was mentioning there's a great Outlet in North Carolina things called the assembly. It's a local North Carolina outlet. They interviewed a big assembly fans Right on

Interviewed some folks who worked, I guess, at the front desk at some of these 24-hour porn stores. They said that Mark Robinson would come in all the time. The deal was you could buy a video for a lot of money or preview a video for less money, so he did that. And it gets worse. Mark Robinson worked at a pizza shop, so he'd bring in a pizza and bring it to the booth and eat the pizza in the booth where you preview the video. So far, all I'm hearing is kink-shaming.

I don't know. Bring a black light to that restaurant. We're not trying to yuck his yum. And so, don't have you have had pizza after a good night? And so, two great things that go great together. What's happening with the leftovers there? Long, one of the topics on that pizza, long, wow. We were all thinking it. Long, disgusting story short.

I read that and I was like, this is very funny. But also, it's like the least bad thing I've ever heard about Mark Robinson. Like, go jerk off all you want. I don't care. Just like, don't do all the other stuff. But what confused me was like, hey man, like get a VCR, right? Do this...

Do this in the comfort of your own home. And so I tweeted that, and I was very rapidly informed about how naive I am about what actually goes on in these booths in the back of the store with the pizza and the whatever else. So projection is what they were trying to say. So yeah, we got to beat that guy. Josh Stein. Josh Stein. Was beat him the wrong word? Defeat him.

I want to talk about this for a second because we've seen... Sounds pretty wacky. We've got to spank him at the polls. We've got to stop this jerk-off. I want to get serious here for a second because we've seen how Republicans, they know that abortion is a losing issue for them, which everyone in America could have been like, yeah, we know.

And so there was a recent ad that Mark Robinson dragged his wife into to talk about an abortion she had about 20 years ago. And this is the same person who said that abortion happens because women can't keep their skirts down. And I just want to say again, you can see it happening across the board. You see it happening in Florida. You see it happening in every state in which abortion is on the ballot, in which Republicans who had...

Long said that abortion should be banned, that women who have abortions are evil, that women who have abortions are murderers. After Dobbs, they were like, actually, what we meant was we want French abortion law, and it's not really a big deal anymore. We don't really care. And you can see that with Mark Robinson dragging his wife into this. Again, this is a person who basically accused anyone who has used reproductive services of being a whore, and

And then he's like, well, actually, I really support our current laws and I totally understand this is a very complex issue. And so one, Mark Robinson's full of shit.

And two, I think that it's been interesting to me again and again to see how Republicans try to obfuscate their own extremism and sane-wash themselves to say like, no, no, no, what I meant was I want French abortion law. No, no, no, what I want is that I think abortion is bad for women. Like...

Don't let people lie to you to your face. And I see that happen with Mark Robinson on this issue. You see it happening in states, you know, you saw people in Kansas and Kentucky and you're seeing it in Missouri. You're seeing it here. You're seeing people saying, stop fucking with me. Stop it. We're done with it. Go back to your little booth in the store with your pizza. Yeah. Figure it out. What you do with your pizza is... You work up quite an appetite. Yeah.

What you do with your pizza is your business. It's a dipping sauce. That's trying to figure out a segue to the Cheney endorsements. So speaking of shooting in the face... I still got it. I still got it. John, you had a question? That's the good side of the party. Um...

This week, friend of the pod Liz Cheney and her father, poster child for compassionate conservatism, Dick Cheney, both said they're voting for Kamala Harris. I have to ask, I have to know, which of you thought in like 2002 that you'd be like, woo, Dick Cheney.

Lovett, how do you feel that you are voting for the same candidate as Dick Cheney? And...

the more serious question, how many more of these old guard Republicans that are, you know, sort of a shrinking in number at this point? Um, do you think the Harris campaign should go after? Do you think this is, these are valuable endorsements in any way? What do you think? Uh, well, first of all, I mean, Dick Cheney and I voted the same way before we voted the same way in 2008. I'm just kidding. Just kidding. Just kidding. Uh, so flip it. I was, I was a Puma. Uh, uh, so I,

We should be very, like, we should fully embrace that Dick Cheney, like, there's a little bit, I think, of, like, online of people being like, ah, Dick Cheney's bad, like, it feels weird. No, no. We should be unabashedly embracing the fact that Dick Cheney and Liz Cheney are endorsing Kamala Harris. The reason we should, we should. Because it, because we did not compromise to get that endorsement. And when people, look,

I wish it weren't as hard for leading Republicans to admit the truth and do the right thing. But clearly it is because so few of them have done it. And we can decide whether or not these people were weaker and shittier and more craven than we could have possibly imagined. Or if this does require some moral courage, it's probably a mix of both. But when someone does something hard that you've asked them to do, you should be glad that they did it.

We forget that there was this moment when there were some Republicans who were anti-Trump but also anti-Democrat. They were like, well, if Democrats really believed what they said about the threat of Trump, they'd compromise all their values to get Republicans to come vote. They'd compromise on choice. They'd compromise on the economy. They'd compromise on health care, whatever it may be. And we haven't done that, right? We've shifted to the left, like on economic policy. We're fighting for abortion access all across the country. And so

When Dick Cheney embraces that, that's not something that reflects poorly on us, it just reflects actually poorly on all the Republicans that are refusing to do it. So I think as much as we can be telling a story about those kinds of Republicans willing to come out and say, I'm not writing in Abraham fucking Lincoln because I'm not a child. I understand that there's two people on that ballot. I'm either for Trump or I'm for Kamala Harris. I'm either going to participate or I'm not. I think the better.

And like, yes, like, you know, I saw there was a story today about like no one expects George W. Bush to come out of his studio just to help the country. Not the first time we've been disappointed by George W. Bush won't be the last. His office put out a statement saying he's not endorsing. Yeah. So I'm like, OK, well, Dick fucking Cheney did it. Yeah. He put out a statement. What's the point of having a profile, man? Do something with it. What are you waiting for?

Again, we're genuinely waiting for George W. Bush. Nobody's waiting, but he's got a choice. You're going to vote or you're not. To your point before, though, I do think it has been really interesting and confusing if you look at Bush Republicans from the early 2000s who have turned out to have backbone and integrity and who have been craving little fucking weasels. And like,

Honestly, it's surprising in both directions. No, and it was wild. If you watch the Republican National Convention, you'd believe that the Republican Party began in 2016. They're like, yeah, before then it was just like...

I don't know, you know, Ronald Reagan, who he? Like, it's been wild, the ahistorization of the Republican Party, where it's just like, it's Trump. It's all Trump. Everybody's Trump. Trump, Trump, Trump. And like, it's, I mean, as someone who was and remains deeply opposed to literally everything Dick Cheney did,

Sometimes a broken clock is right. Like, it'll happen sometimes. Dick Cheney, welcome to the resistance. Dan, you and I talked on Friday's pod about how unlikely it is that the Republican Party, even if Trump loses, goes back to the days of Cheney, McCain, whatever. They still sucked, to be clear. But, you know, Benji Sarland and Semaphore had a good piece about how...

like these, the MAGA candidates who have like refashioned themselves in Donald Trump's image don't seem to be doing well electorally, right? And so, which is great.

We applaud that. And why do you think that is? And what do you think that means for Democrats facing Republican candidates who aren't as MAGA as a Carrie Lake or a Donald Trump? So I think there are ways to look at this. First is it is important for Democrats to truly understand Donald Trump's appeal because he's in his third national election. He is trending towards, as we said here again, getting another 47% of Americans to vote for him for president.

And part of that, what's interesting is that Donald Trump is not a popular person, but the Republican Party is much less popular than Donald Trump. He, for a lot of voters, represents an outsider. It's important to understand just how big a celebrity Donald Trump is for a lot of Americans. Someone sent me a Pizza Hut ad from the early 2000s of Donald Trump. He was the Pizza Hut spokesperson eating Pizza Hut on Trump Force One.

Is this Avatar of Wealth in America? He was in an episode of Sex and the City, if those of us remember. He was in Home Alone 2. Was he previewing a movie? He was in...

Got that. And because of his celebrity, he is able to elude two of the things that have failed Republicans in most elections. One, because he is this celebrity, millionaire, thrice-married cad from New York, he doesn't come across as the same sort of

abortion-hating, homophobic Republican, even though all of his policies reflect that, to most people. And so there is this view among a lot of voters that in the Rorschach test that he is personally more socially liberal than Republicans. Then also because he is run as this nationalist candidate, he also doesn't seem like

the Social Security cutting, tax cut, giving away Republicans like Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan. And so he's alluding about those things. So when you take another, like the sort of MAGA candidates like Kerry Lake, who lost in 2022, what they are is they're just worse versions of the Republicans that people already hate.

And so part of that, you can look at that and say, well, yes, we are able to defeat Donald Trump, as I sure hope we do, and he does not run for president again. Now the Republicans have adopted a philosophy with a bunch of people who do not have the charisma or the ability to carry that movement forward. Like, honestly, the two people, if you would ask this two years ago, who are the two people who would be the potential leaders of the MAGA movement if Donald Trump were to go away, and that person was not Donald Trump Jr., it would be Ron DeSantis and J.D. Vance. Yeah. Yeah.

These people can't even order fucking donuts like a human, okay? But even if they do not have Donald Trump's political appeal, and that makes me want to throw up my mouth to say that, but even if they don't have that, what Donald Trump has created is something incredibly dangerous in the radicalization of a generation of Republicans that goes forward and means that

In a polarized country, any Republican can win in a certain year if the conditions are right. So we are, yes, we can defeat Donald Trump here. We have to defeat Donald Trump. We have to defeat Kerry Lake. But the seeds of what created Donald Trump and Kerry Lake is going to exist going forward. And that's something we have to take on. Yeah, I mean, Mark Robinson is still in the hunt. He's the current lieutenant governor. Yep.

I think, I mean, one thing that I think is always interesting is we were told over and over in 2016 and 2017 that Trumpism was about populism, about economic protectionism. And it's been interesting to see how many Trumpist candidates were like, I hear that. I'm just going to be racist.

Like, Corey Stewart in Virginia, who is from Minnesota and went to St. Olaf College and then was like, the people who want to take down Confederate memorials are the Taliban. Like, you saw that again, Roy Moore in Alabama. Yeah.

Like, you see this again and again and again about how Trumpism, there is no such thing as Trumpism. There are people like the populist project, as you're seeing now as Tucker Carlson decides that Nazism is a fun new thing we're trying. Like...

It's been interesting, again, to see there is no such thing. The Trumpist ideology does not exist because it can't exist beyond him. He has no coattails. There's no one who's like, oh, I'm going to try and do this thing. It's just people hating people. It's Marco Rubio saying that I'm fine making Amazon workers piss in bottles so that they don't have to leave the clock as long as they don't sell books about trans people.

It's Josh Hawley being whatever that is. Like, there are no coattails. There is no such thing as Trumpism. There's only Trump and weirdo Trumpist drag queens.

Either way, we've got to beat them. So votesaveamerica.com. Head there. Sign up if you haven't. We're trying to get as many volunteers as we can for our Organizer Else goals. We're trying to hit 75,000 people. So go to votesaveamerica.com if you haven't signed up already. And when we come back, Dan talks to your next senator, Ruben Gallego. It's a new ghost burger from Carl's Jr. It's a juicy char-boiled Angus beef burger. Yeah.

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Please welcome to the stage your congressman and the next senator from Arizona, Ruben Gallego. I think they like you. Okay, so you just heard us talk for the last 20 minutes or so about how politics in Arizona have changed over the years. You're a lifelong Arizonan. You've run for office here. I want to get your take on how Arizona went from, the Arizona Republicans went from the party of John McCain to the party of Kerry Lake. How long do we have?

As long as you need, sir. Look, you know, many of us actually know the McCain family, have known the McCain family, and I think one of the things that people don't understand, the reason why Democrats, Independents, and Republicans have respect for the McCain family, it's not the politics, it's the service, right? And the fact that...

Senator McCain and his family, we at the core always understood that they would always put country first. And we saw that time and time again, even though many of us here were knocking doors, trying to make sure someone else got elected a lot of times. But at the core, we knew that that was still a good man. And then that family really was dedicated to Arizona and the United States. I think what happened many, many, many times, and this is prior even to Donald Trump, is that politicians...

moved from service to self-service. And Carrie Lake is a prime example of that. As soon as she saw that she can gain some power, as soon as she saw the ability to gain some fame, you know, and when she realized that she was a failed newscaster, the next thing she wanted to do was become a failed politician. Um...

And I'm going to ensure that's going to happen again. But this is why, if you ever see Carrie Lake's evolution in politics, it's all over the place because she will say anything, anything possible. She will lie. She will confuse people. She'll try to confuse you. She's gotten sued by fellow Republicans. She admitted that she lied about the 2020 election. Now she is lying about lying about the 2020 election. But that's a very dangerous politician because, like you said...

This is a 50-50 state, so on any given roll of the dice, they can win, and that's very consequential.

I have been fascinated by your race because for many reasons, one, obviously what's happening in Arizona is going to turn control of the Senate, control of the White House, so many important things. But it's also really ground zero for I think the three issues that are finding the 2024 election across the country, abortion, immigration, and the big lie. And so I wanted to start with abortion, right, where you have had this 1864 law, you have the Prop 139 now on the ballot.

And you have an opponent who is, has in a position that I can't truly understand. She has been for the law, against the law. But I want to just ask you how Prop 139 and sort of the emergence of abortion has changed your race. And if you could possibly tell me what Carrie Lake's position on abortion actually is. Well, Prop 139 is important because we need to protect women's rights to control their body, without a doubt. And leaving this...

leaving this, this right, uh, to the Arizona legislature and you've met them. Um, well, you met the good ones. Um, it's, but it's, it's scary, right? And so the work that Chris Love, uh, and the Prop 139 committee is, is doing is, is, is heroic work for, uh, Arizona. Um,

How has this changed? I will say this, Arizona actually has always been a fairly pro-choice state, Democrats and Republicans. The Goldwater family was involved in the first starting of Planned Parenthood here in Arizona. It's not uncommon if you go to a Planned Parenthood luncheon here, you will see Republican women there, and a lot of them.

I think what this has done though is now this conversation has been pushed forward into other areas. For the first time in, since I can remember, I hear Latino men talking about abortion rights.

I hear them talking about concern that the health of their wives and their family and their daughters is now at risk because of these extreme politicians that took away their family's ability to make choices for themselves. I hear your country club Republican male now talking about how extreme this is. So this has really crossed these barriers that just didn't exist before.

And I think now everyone feels more comfortable having these conversations versus before a lot of people did not really talk about abortion rights outside the confines of politics. And now it's something that we hear and we talk about almost, you know, you feel people feel very comfortable talking about it in every aspect because now we realize that it is really, really at risk. Where is Carrie Lake on this? We don't know, but it's bad. And here's why.

In 2022, she said the 1864 law was a great law. What was the 1864 law? Let's make sure we understand that it said no exceptions for rape or incest to begin with. Number one, great law is what she called it. If you're a provider, a doctor, a nurse that decide to give an abortion to someone who, for example, didn't get raped or was a victim of incest, two years mandatory in jail. And she called that a great law.

So fast forward to 1884, sorry I was in the Navajo Nation early in the morning, so to 2024, what did she start saying about this? Now it's a great law, but it's a shame that the Attorney General won't enforce it. The sheriffs of Arizona should enforce it. Have you guys met some of the sheriffs in Arizona? There's some good ones, but imagine back in the day Sheriff Joe Rapallo enforcing some of these like extreme abortion bans.

And on and on. So she will say anything. She will do anything. The most important thing we have to understand is women are in danger if Carrie Lake is appointed, is elected. And what she says now we cannot take to the bank.

If she said only two years ago that this was a great law, if this is the same person that said she was thrilled when Roe was overturned, how can we trust her with a woman's right to control her body? We can't. It's not a safe choice. Thank you.

And a point I would make for our listeners, everyone here in this room knows this, but for our listeners back home, we're going to hear this podcast tomorrow morning, is the difference between Ruben Gallego and Carrie Lake in the Senate is the difference between likely giving President Kamala Harris a majority that would enshrine Roe v. Wade as the law in this country. 100%, yes. So I want to talk a little about immigration, right? You're a congressman from a border state.

I watch all the political ads. I've seen Carrie Lake's ads and the Super PAC ads about you. They're largely about the border. They're attacking you on the border. Carrie Lake has even associated herself or sort of echoed some of the great replacement theory. And now she's talked about why people come to this country and immigrants, the Democratic Party. How is immigration coming up in your race? And what is it that Democrats in the country don't understand, maybe don't get about the politics of immigration when you're from a place like Arizona? Yeah.

Well, I think actually the Democrats in Arizona actually get and understand border politics and immigration better than almost anyone else in the country. I would imagine, yeah. We've been having this discussion for years. And also, we're very realistic about the border and the border politics, the problems, but also some of the benefits, right? Right now, we would get on the road, we'd get to the border, probably in Nogales, in about two and a half hours, two hours and 15 minutes, how I drive.

But what does that mean is that we actually understand the border for what it is, right? Billions and billions of dollars worth of trade crosses that border every day. We have U.S. citizens that live on the Mexico side and come over. We have Mexican nationals that come over and work here in the United States and shop. During COVID, one of the two places in the country where non-citizens were allowed to cross over was Yuma, Arizona.

You know why? If we didn't have those Mexican nationals that have visas to cross over to pull our winter lettuce, the majority of the winter lettuce in America would have gone, would have rotted on the field. So...

We understand the border, that this is something that we can work with, but we also need to improve it, right? We do need more border patrol. We need more customs agents. We need more technology to check the fentanyl. But we also need politicians that are willing to work for border solutions and not want a border problem, right? And that's what Cary Lake represents. Thank you.

You know, we had a good border compromise bill that would have brought in more security at the border, more scanners, all the technology we wanted for us to be checking the vehicles that are coming through so we could actually stop the fentanyl at the border. And Carrie Lake said, do not vote for it.

Not because there was a better bill coming up, not because if you held out it's going to be better, because she knew that if this was a solution, that it would end her campaign. She needs that border drama because she has nothing else to talk about. What is she going to talk about, abortion? We already just talked about that, right? So this is why when we talk about it, if you see our commercials, we actually talk about solutions. We talk about what we've done, too.

One of the first bills I jumped in on to help out when I first got to Congress was with Martha McSally, another veteran, to help veterans move from leaving the military and go become border patrol. Just a couple weeks ago, I joined in with a Republican, Dan Crenshaw, who has a really good bill to help government officials, law enforcement, be able to transfer over veterans

their clearances so that way it doesn't take as long with bureaucracy. So these are the things that we consistently point out. And I think that's the difference is that, you know, when Carrie Lake sees a border problem, she runs to the camera. I run to solutions. And that's how we're going to win this. There's obviously in dealing with the with immigration, I'd say it's there's two challenges, right? There is border security and there's what do we do with the immigrants who are already here?

And what do you do with the undocumented people already here? And how do you find the balance in that conversation between border security and a comprehensive immigration reform that is fair? I got to tell you, I think it's mostly the Washington, D.C. kind of punditry that doesn't understand that most your middle road Arizonan wants both border security and immigration reform. Right. It's it's not an either or.

And this is not just talking to your country club Republican in Mesa or Scottsdale. If you talk to Latinos, they'll say the same thing too. They want to see more security at the border. They want to see stricter asylum claims being adjudicated. But they also want to deal with the status of dreamers. The fact that we have...

Hundreds of thousands of dreamers in Arizona. And they're not kids anymore. They now have families. They're teachers. They're part of our community. They have businesses. They have homes. And, you know, you have a very severe threat coming from people like Carrie Lake who says she will deport dreamers, right? In a time and place where these people are part of our society, they have American kids, many of them. We have one politician that's going to deport these people that aren't

came here not through their own volition and want to be US citizens, but if it isn't for our own vision because of the broken immigration system, they don't actually have the ability to do that. There are lots of other families, right? We talk about how we're a country of keeping families together and making families strong. We have a lot of mixed status families, right? Where we have a woman who is married to a US citizen, but has not been able to fix her paperwork.

We should give them an opportunity to also become here legally and get in the process. And so at the same time, we can also have border security. It's possible to do that. We've done it in the past. I don't understand why we think we can't do it again. I'm glad you brought up Dreamers because you may not remember this, but 10 years ago, I think it was 10 years ago, you flew to Arizona.

Air Force One with Barack Obama. Yeah, yeah. And he was coming here to do an event on housing policy. This was right after the State of the Union in 2014 or 2015. And you were fresh into Congress at the time. And there was a group of really well-meaning young people who were planning to protest the president at the event. They were dreamers. We didn't know what we were going to do about the protest. And Congressman Gallego said he would go meet with them.

And talk to them about it before the event. And I remember very well, I watched that meeting. It was an incredibly impressive thing where you sat down with these young people, you listen to their concerns, you address them, and you promise they'd have someone in Washington who would listen to them. And that is something that has always stuck with me when I thought about you and your political career in that moment. Thank you. Thank you. I have so many friends that are, close friends that are dreamers. And I've been working with them and I've

I used to call them kids, and now they're adults, they have kids, they're like family to me. And it would be just a stain on this country if we deported them because we couldn't fix our immigration system or we couldn't stop these radical politicians like Carrie Lake. But I mean, in general,

You know, I think that's the one thing that we just don't do enough. And I think this is one of the reasons why we're doing well on this campaign is because we are traveling the state. We're going to some of the reddest areas of the state. And I am actually sitting down having conversations with my Republican counterparts, treating them with respect, asking what they need, what they look, what they're looking for from their senator or from the government. And guess what? Super majority of the time, I'm not getting any support.

And that's fine. But I'm making myself available to them so they know that they have someone to talk to, that even if you didn't support me in this election, when I'm in there, I'm going to come back to Havasu. I'm going to be coming back to Mojave County. I'm going to be going back to some of these places that...

You know what? Are ignored by Democrats and Republicans. And even after 75% of the time when I get rejected, we do get one or two Republicans are saying, you know what? I'm glad you're here. I'm glad we're talking. I want to build on this, and I am going to support you. And I think that's more and more that we need to be doing. And look, Arizona.

is not represented by this population here. It still is a Republican-leaning state. There are about 200,000 more Republicans registered in Arizona than Democrats. So as a Democrat, you have to work across the aisle to get them to come over to support you. And that means you have to have very honest and frank conversations. So Arizona is also one of the states where...

the Trump folks worked very hard to overturn the election. There's been indictment of Arizona politicians, including several former aides of the Trump campaign. A lot of Republicans who are running for office in battleground states have tried to walk away from their role in the big lie in January six and all of that. Your opponent is one of the proudest and loudest pushers of the dangerous conspiracy theory of the big lie. Is this something voters are still interested in focus on? Does it come up in your race?

It does, but it kind of comes up in the overall picture of who she is. She's dangerous. She'll say anything, do anything to get power, and they don't trust her because of that. It also comes up with a lot of independents, Republicans, and veterans. People that, like me, sort of uphold the Constitution of the United States at a very young age that still feel that they have some fealty to that oath and that someone like Carrie Lake is violating that.

And consistently. And it's also insulting, right? You know, you're telling these people that somehow in 2022, two other Republicans running statewide got more votes than her. And then we also elected two Republicans in swing congressional districts and kept the statehouse and state senate for Republicans. But we decided somehow to just screw her election. Yeah.

So, like, in our whole, like, and by the way, the fact that Democrats are that organized to do that, I love us, but let's be honest. But this is what she's telling people. Like, and she's, I mean, she believes it. You know, I had a run-in with her at the airport, and when I asked her, like, how did you lose, how did these other two Republicans win and you lose, and she just, like, everybody knows I just went full...

Full, full, full. But this is something that people see and they kind of attach to other politics. Like how can I trust you if you're lying to my face?

And then she gets sued for defamation. Then she admits that she lies part of the lawsuit. And now she's lying about lying about the lawsuit. So this is where, you know, she's doing the basic mistake, I think, in Arizona politics that people do not trust her. And they're not going to trust someone who they think is just a craven politician doing whatever she can just to gain power. Okay. Last and very tough question for you.

How can the people either in this room or listening at home, how can they help you defeat Kerry Lake and give the Democrats the majority that President Kamala Harris needs in the Senate? Thank you. Number one, we've got to get our commercials out there. We've got to get our mail. We've got to get our digital. You can donate. www.GallegoForArizona.com Really appreciate it. It's Gallego, not Gallegos.

Happens a lot. It's okay. Two, this election, whether it's top of ticket all the way to the bottom, they're going to be decided by a couple hundred votes, a couple thousand votes. We had an attorney general's race that last year was decided with around 250 votes, right? So door knock, call, volunteer every time you can. We have about 30 days until ballots drop. Thank you.

We're an early voting state. Arizonans, Democrats, Republicans, Independents love to vote early, so let's talk to them. Let's have respectful conversations with our fellow Arizonans. Let's remind them that we're all patriots. We all want to do the same thing. We all want Arizona to move forward. If we do that, we will win Arizona again. Please give it up for your next senator, Ruben Gallego. Thank you, thank you. When we come back, I game. And we're back.

There are two kinds of people in this world. There's the kind of person who bumps into their political opponent outside a bathroom at Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport.

And thinks, even though I find my opponent's election denialism and extremism abhorrent, we are both human beings, and perhaps in this one fleeting moment, away from the draw of endless shouting matches and viral confrontations, we might be able to see each other as such, and perhaps if I model the kind of patriotism that says we can argue and compete at the end of the day, shake hands, and respect the outcome of an election, we can help restore that kind of politics for all of us. Until you notice she's sort of cheating out a little, because is she fucking filming me? And then there's the other kind of person, the person filming you.

And so it's time for a game we're calling Carried Interest, aka Lake Lake Don't Tell Me. Most Arizonans, they understand that Carrie Lake is a dangerous crank. They've already gone to the polls once and said, no, thank you. But like a chef offering you seconds of a dish you sent back because you ordered your burger medium, but what came out was well done dog shit.

Carrie Lake is back. And we have to remind Arizonans of just how out of touch and out of her mind she is because it's frankly hard to believe. Here's how it works. We have two teams. Ruben Gallego, because you were a Marine, I've teamed you up with the second toughest person on this stage, Jane. Woo! Woo!

Tommy, John, and Dan will be the other team. I will ask questions. You will alternate going first. If you are right, you get a point. If not, the other team can steal for two points. Now, it says here that John, Tommy, and Dan are Group A, but former and active military members board first. So we're going to start with Jane and the congressman. Question one. Denying the results of the election she lost in 2022, Carrie Lake claimed to have whose blood coursing through her veins? Trump. Incorrect. For the steal...

Blood? Whose blood did she say was coursing through her veins as she fought to steal the election? Barry Goldwater? That's a good call. I'm sorry, you can go... George Washington? Yes. It was the founding fathers. She said Benjamin Franklin and the founding fathers. Many assumed it was a metaphor, but she actually broke into the Smithsonian in a daring midnight raid. No, that's not right.

All right, over to John, Dan, and Tommy. Carrie Lake's ongoing refusal to accept election results she doesn't like has actually inspired a song. What is the name of that song? I have no idea. And I'm proud of that. 81 million votes? So close. 81 million votes, my ass. Correct. And I believe we have a clip. I believe we have a clip. It's a rap song, too. Just to be clear.

We are living on Planet Crazy. It does slap. All right. She wants to vote on your behalf in the Senate. Just remember that. Okay.

All right, Jane, Congressman Gallego, when sued for defamation over her baseless allegations against election officials, the kinds of allegations that have led to threats and forced officials to go into hiding, how did Carrie Lake defend her previous comments in March of this year?

She admitted that she actually lied and accepted the fact that she said that she defamed Stephen Richard. Yes. I feel like people don't appreciate this. I didn't know that. People don't get this. She did not contest the charges. She surrendered, allowed the court to move straight to damages, and then as you pointed out during the interview, she's now lying about how she admitted to lying about the big fucking lie. Yes. Wow. Wow.

You may have noticed she's kind of a liar. Yeah. It comes up a lot. That's the through line. Human lie to be. John, Tommy, and Dan, according to Carrie Lake, when did America first see racial hatred? Racial hatred. When did it appear? It was the Obama era. It was when Barack Obama was elected. That's correct. Yeah, that's right. That's correct. I don't believe there was racist hatred. Obama stoked that.

So it's one less thing to worry about. Oh, good. Well. Back to you, Congressman and Jane. What did Carrie Lake consider one of the greatest acts of cowardice in American history? She described this as one of the greatest acts of cowardice. What was the act of voting to protect the ACA? Incorrect. For the steal. Mike Pence? Is it Mike Pence?

Mike Pence? That's correct. It was Mike Pence certifying the election. Mike Pence not creating a new made-up rule, which is the vice president picks the president, was an act of cowardice. I don't want to bring the vibe down, but I actually was thinking about this, which is... Congressman, no, look. The vibe is so high right now. What? The vibe is so good right now. The vibe is great. But no, but I really wanted to ask you this.

Which is, look, I don't like Mike Pence very much, but you can't describe what he did as cowardice. He was under a lot of pressure and he stood up to do the right thing. You're someone who's shown courage and you've been around people that have shown courage. You're humble, but that's a big part of who you are. What does it tell you about Carrie Lake's character? That she is confusing a genuine act of backbone with cowardice.

Well, she's never been put in a situation like that. And because she never has ever put in a situation where she has to make a decision between herself and the country, she basically makes an excuse and tries to say someone else is a coward when, in fact, she is the coward. I would just say...

When Carrie Lake said, I'm in perfect health, the brakes on my car have been checked, and they're in working order, I am not suicidal, who is she suggesting might try to take her out? Wait, who is she suggesting what? For everyone? That's for them or for us? Carrie Lake. You guys take this one. Carrie Lake said, I'm in perfect health, the brakes on my car have been checked, they're in working order, and I'm not suicidal, who is she suggesting might try to take her out? This is a real quote. Joe Biden? Sure, yeah, yeah.

Joe Biden? Incorrect. It was Hillary Clinton. That was a twist. Should have known. Honestly, that's always the answer. It's Hillary Clinton. That's just second fault. When I doubt with her, it's always that. Yeah. Yeah. We should have known. Is there a slaughter rule to this? I know. You are crushing. I understand there's a sports term in there, like how in a little league game, if the kids are winning by too much. All right.

Back to you, Congressman and Jane. Carrie Lake was caught on tape saying, the only people who can enforce that law are our sheriffs. And we need to start asking the sheriffs if they're willing to enforce that. What is the law Carrie Lake was referring to? 1864 abortion law. That's correct. She said that in April of this year, when she was meeting with Republicans behind closed doors less than six months ago, a law she has repeatedly praised. You know what that sound means?

Do you know what that means? It's a lightning round where the points really add up. And so it's time to play a round of, say it with me, who would Carrie Lake throw in jail for personal or political reasons? Now anyone can shout out the answer if they know it. That's how the lightning round works. How dare you?

Said, "Fuck you, Harley Jarvis." He's comparing. How dare you? All right. Carrie Lake has not just brainstormed about getting sheriffs to enforce an abortion law passed before women could vote or doctors knew about washing their hands. Believing the government should go after people she doesn't like is her kind of, kind of her vibe. Any team can answer. First up, Carrie Lake referred to the members of this profession as criminals. Doctors? Nurses? I hear teachers, nurses. You're getting warmer.

Give you a hint, they're the enemy of the people. Fauci's. We'll get there. It's journalists. Journalists, yeah. It's journalists. We were close. We should have known that. Do not believe a word that the corrupt media says that they're liars and frankly, I think they're criminal. They should be. I mean, some of them probably should be locked up. All right. Wild. She was an anchor, I believe. A TV anchor. She was a TV anchor. She was a part of the profession.

Double checking. Zeal of the converted. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, not a good one. Carrie Lake said, Ivermectin is a wonder drug before suggesting the sheriff's arrest this doctor. Anthony Fauci. That is true. I'm encouraging any lawman here, and I'm talking sheriffs, to issue a warrant for Anthony Fauci's arrest out of Arizona. Carrie Lake also wanted to jail this opponent and former Arizona Secretary of State. Katie Hobbs. Katie Hobbs.

You got to...

Arrest her fucking... Arrest her ring light there, man. Their face was glowing. I know, I just... I have to say that in comparison to Steve Bannon, I'm like, damn, Carrie. Yeah. That lighting is so good. That lighting is good. Also good are winners. Congressman Ruben Gallego and Jane have won the game. Now, speaking of winning the game, I did want to leave you with this moment from Carrie Light. The media, hit your record button back there. My pronouns are

Her pronouns are I won. No, she didn't. And that's not what pronouns are. She didn't win. And to make sure she doesn't win, go to Gallego for Arizona and VoteSaveAmerica.com and sign up to make sure we put Ruben Gallego in the Senate and send Carrie Lake back to Truth Social where she belongs.

That's our show for tonight. Thank you to Ruben Gallego. Thanks, Jane Koston. Check out What A Day on Monday and go see the Votate of America booth outside. Thank you, guys.

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Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our producer is David Toledo. Our associate producers are Saul Rubin and Farrah Safari. Reid Cherlin is our executive editor, and Adrian Hill is our executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer, with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Writing support by Hallie Kiefer. Madeline Herringer is our head of news and programming. Matt DeGroat is our head of production. Andy Taft is our executive assistant.

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