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Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor. On today's show, the prosecution's witnesses in the Manhattan trial, including Hope Hicks, deliver damning new testimony against Donald Trump. We're also going to talk about Trump's donor retreat at Mar-a-Lago, where he compared the Biden administration to Nazis, offered attendees a turn at the mic if they donated a million dollars, and held live auditions for his running mate, including Every Puppy's Worst Nightmare, Kristi Noem.
Then later, Vote Save America's fearless leader, Shaniqua McClendon, will be here to talk about the big launch of Organize or Else, which is the easiest and most effective way to get involved in this election.
But first, some big developments in Gaza over the last several days. Hamas said they agreed to a ceasefire deal drawn up by Qatar in Egypt. It's unclear what the terms of the deal were, but the Israeli government rejected it and then announced that they were striking Hamas targets in eastern Rafah, where they've also begun evacuating more than 100,000 Palestinians in preparation for an invasion. They also said they'll send a delegation to keep negotiating a deal. The sticking point seems to be the length of the ceasefire. Hamas wants it to be permanent. Israel does not.
Biden spoke to Netanyahu just before all this happened and warned him against invading Rafah. And then a U.S. official told Reuters that Washington is committed to stopping the invasion and that Netanyahu has not approached these negotiations with Hamas in good faith. Obviously, a lot we still don't know. But, Tommy, what's the reason Bibi doesn't seem to want a permanent ceasefire if it would mean getting the hostages back?
Because getting the hostages back is a priority, but not the sole priority or probably even his first priority. I mean, he said repeatedly that he believes that they need to destroy Hamas and that he thinks that requires a ground invasion into Rafah because that's where the remaining battalions of Hamas fighters are and where the Hamas leadership is.
The more cynical version or read on this is that Netanyahu is facing some political pressure from the families of hostages, but he faces even more existential pressure from the right wingers in his cabinet who want a Rafah invasion. For example, Itamar Ben-Gadbir, the national security minister, said,
We did not attack Gaza and we got October 7th. We didn't attack Rafah and we got a persistent attack. Netanyahu go to Rafah now. So this is a guy who could pull his coalition support and topple the government, which makes Netanyahu out of power. So there's a lot of people that think Bibi is perpetuating the war because it will help him stay in power for as long as possible. And maybe you can use that power to evade some corruption charges down the road. But that's the kind of more cynical read.
I mean, it sure seems like he's putting his own political future and his job, maybe his own freedom, I guess, ahead of the lives of hostages at this point. I saw someone say, well, if you do that deal and then you promise to end the war, it rewards Hamas for taking hostages. But I don't know what kind of reward that is after this war already has taken so many lives and also destroyed a lot of Hamas. And
And then, I don't know. I think that, like, you have a chance. You have a deal to get the hostages back. I don't understand why you wouldn't take it. It's, like, pressure from the families, also pressure from, like, thousands of Israelis protesting now. Tommy, what do you think Biden should do if this deal falls apart and Israel invades? I mean, they've already started to strike, but... I mean, look, it hasn't started yet. I think it's... They've been hitting Rafah targets for a very long time, and they've told people to evacuate, but there's no way. They're not evacuating people. You know, you're just told to, like, go somewhere else, essentially. Right.
I think it's absolutely critical that they use every bit of leverage they have now to get a ceasefire and prevent this large ground invasion in Tarafa. Again, the statistics are 34,000 people are already dead, including an estimated 13,000 children. And now the World Food Program says there is a full-blown famine happening in northern Gaza.
One aid crossing in northern Gaza is closed now because Hamas shelled an area near it over the weekend. The other main aid crossing is Rafah. So you have to assume that would get shut down during a Rafah invasion. So the question is, where are people going to get food from?
There are people who have now been asked to evacuate five, six, seven times with their families. They don't have clean water. They don't have sanitation. They can barely find food now, let alone fuel to evacuate or go somewhere. So you'll have people who I talked to someone who leads an aid organization today, this morning, and she said, some people are just saying, no, I'm not going to evacuate this time. You told me to evacuate so many times and I'm just not going to do it. So these people are going to be in the line of fire.
So I just think that at this point, you cannot justify expanding this war. It is a moral and strategic and humanitarian disaster. Thousands more kids will die. And so even from the Israeli standpoint, I think.
Arafa invasion is more likely to kill the hostages than rescue them. I think it will lead to Israel being more isolated. And I also think that this military effort is based on a false promise from Netanyahu that you can eradicate Hamas entirely through a military means.
That is just, I don't think that's true. Even the Israeli military says that Hamas will exist after the war as a guerrilla group, as an extremist group. They're an idea, they're a resistance occupation. And so we've learned in Iraq, Vietnam, Afghanistan, that you can't
find a military solution to a political problem. And there will have to be some sort of political talks or accommodation that gets to a two-state solution. And so my priority, if I were sitting in the White House, would be to do everything humanly possible to get a ceasefire immediately and then flood aid into Gaza and then figure out the rest later. I also understand
like the Israelis want to, you know, root out Hamas's leadership and defend themselves from another October 7th style attack. But it does seem like you could do both of those things, or at least you have the chance to do both of those things, particularly defend yourself without doing a full ground invasion of Rafah, right? Like, couldn't you just like have a ceasefire and then, you know, there's targeted operations down the road and you've, you know, all that kind of stuff. Yes and no. I mean, listen, I think you, a couple of things. One, you just have to imagine,
To put yourself in the Israeli mindset, I do think you have to try to imagine how we all felt six months after 9-11. And there's a piece of this where they want, you want to take out Al-Qaeda or you want to take out Hamas. There's also just, I think, a desire for vengeance. And we should just be honest about that. There is also this tunnel infrastructure where they think Yahya Sinwar is hiding another leadership of Hamas.
They believe that Senoir is surrounded by 15 or so hostages to protect himself from some sort of military operation or airstrike. And so it's very complicated. I'm not saying any of this is easy, but I do think six months, seven months into this war, we've seen the death toll. We've seen how badly it's gone for everyone involved. And it's time to just get to a ceasefire. I hear you on the White House ought to put as much pressure as possible on getting to a ceasefire.
how are they meant to do that when Israel's interests and Netanyahu's interests don't align? Right? Like that, that's what I, I'm not, I'm not saying you're, you don't, you don't understand that too. I'm just, that is to me like the challenge in this, which is, you know, Biden calls Bibi just today, right? To make sure that they open this crossing. And they're clearly trying to,
Every way they can to get to a ceasefire. But when net when there is a wide recognition that Israel's interest is in a ceasefire, that this is not serving the long term security and and and strategic interest of this country. But Netanyahu has his own equities in this. I guess I just don't understand how you kind of cut that knot.
I mean, I think what a lot of people want to see is more of a carrot and stick approach where there are real consequences for defying U.S. requests like this that include conditioning aid or cutting off, you know, weapon shipments or, you know, fill in, you know, more recognition of Palestinian statehood at the U.N. Like there's a lot of ways to
to put pressure on Netanyahu. None of them are comfortable for someone like Biden, who's a, you know, longtime, like, self-professed lover of Israel and supporter of the Israeli project and government. But, you know, I think a lot of Democrats want to see more of that pressure track. Well, and Biden, I mean, in the White House readout of the call today, they said he reiterated his clear position on RAFA, which is don't invade RAFA.
And when he had said that previously, he also said, you know, or the White House had said, like, there could be a rethinking of support for Israel. Right. So, like, I think if they go through with this invasion, he's got to.
He can't just like have drawn that line and then not do anything. After the IDF struck that World Central Kitchen convoy and killed seven aid workers, Biden made a call to Netanyahu that sounded like it was very difficult. He demanded several things. And, you know, Netanyahu went out and said that they would accede to those demands.
I think a lot of people saw that example and thought, okay, the pressure track has been effective where six months of requests have not. So let's emphasize that more. And I think that is the right path, clearly. Totally. All right. Let's talk about the latest in Trump's criminal trial. On Friday, Hope Hicks delivered some of the most damning testimony yet against her former boss when she revealed that Trump told her that he knew about the hush money payments to Stormy Daniels and was glad the story didn't come out before the election.
Trump also said that Cohen made the payments on his own, which Hicks said she believed was a lie. She then broke down into tears on the stand. On Monday, the prosecution moved on to the falsifying business records part of the crime. They called the Trump organization's former comptroller to the stand, who admitted that Trump's reimbursement to Michael Cohen was falsely recorded as a legal expense and that Trump.
Constitution is much more important than jail. It's not even close. I'll do that sacrifice any day.
That's why that juror number seven is a real sow. And I'll say it if I have to for the country. I've gone from thinking Trump was terrified to go to jail to wondering if he wants to to seem like a martyr for his people now. I keep going back and forth on it. And today after that, I'm like, I'm a little more on the side of I'm where you are, Tommy. I don't I still I still don't believe it. I still think he's put on a show that he doesn't want to go. What if he wants to sing in the J6 choir?
Yeah, I guess. I don't know if they're taking new members. He's a hit maker. He's also probably asking, you know he's asking his lawyers like, well, how long would I spend in jail? Right. Would it be like a day? A night? A couple days? Upstate? I think the lack of control over
face hair body I think it's like a big deal I think it's a big deal for him he wears a hat when it's windy now he's gonna go to jail yeah although he's not he knows he's not gonna get thrown in a cell with other uh with other inmates you know right Tim and his secret service buddies yeah so he's probably well I can't even move we're talking about this is wild yeah living a fucking carnival stupid so the whole thing's stupid
Usually we have guests with actual law degrees with us to talk about these developments. But from everything you guys have seen and read, how are you feeling about how this trial is going for Trump? Should he should he start measuring the drapes at Rikers or what? It's not going particularly well. The the whole big testimony is interesting, I guess.
There's two parts that stood out to me. One was when she first gets the emailed transcript of the Access Hollywood tape and she goes and she brings it to Trump. Trump's like, that doesn't sound like me. I wouldn't say that. And then minutes later, they had the video, which I thought was great. Just, you know, he's a liar. He's a fucking liar. That's the point of that. But there's the part where she describes Trump telling her after it becomes public about Michael Cohen making the payments, where Trump tells Hope Hicks something like,
I just talked to Michael. I just talked to him. Michael did it out of the goodness of his heart. And he did it without my knowledge. He did it out of the goodness of his heart. And that's what Michael did. I just talked to him. Also, good thing it didn't come out before the election. And good thing it didn't come out before the election. But just that kind of...
fucking dime store mafioso, like getting the story straight thing just comes across. And the fact that she's breaking down as she tells us, and I'm sure is a very compelling witness. I don't think it was a good day for him. I also like that we learned that I think Trump apparently asked Hope to hide the newspapers that got delivered to Trump's home to keep Melania from seeing a story about his affair with Karen McDougal, which is a technique that didn't work before the internet.
These other people get newspapers and they can call your wife. It's so funny. You assume Melania has a phone? I don't know. I don't know if she has a phone. But that was interesting. Yeah. Whether Trump directed Michael Cohen to do it or whether Michael Cohen actually did it out of the goodness of his heart, Andrew Weissman was saying that it doesn't actually matter for this case because Trump knowing about the scheme
after the fact and knowing about it like that's all they need to prove that he knew about it he knew that falsifying the business records was in furtherance of covering up the campaign finance violation so that's what they have to prove it is more damning yeah if what hick said is true and what michael cohen surely will say is true which is of course trump directed michael cohen to do it but it's not absolutely necessary yeah i mean i'm look i i'm i'm sure that's right legally um
because he's the lawyer and we're nothing. - Right, that's why I follow Andrew Weisman. - But just in terms of the story, for people hearing this, I do think it is actually important in terms of the seriousness of it to know that from the beginning he was directing this, that he wasn't just after the fact trying to kind of fuck up the ledger. - And I think that's why they started with Pecker, right? Because they wanted to lay the predicate that this started in 2015, 2016,
Trump was there. Trump entered into the deal with them and said, let's do this catch and kill thing with any any kind of story that comes up. And so now you have to believe that Trump wanted to do that with Karen McDougal, the negative stories on his opponents, all this other shit. But when it came to Stormy Daniels, then it was just Michael Cohen acting on his own. Some people think it's a better strategy to start with Pecker. Some people finish with Pecker. But I think I think in this case, you're right. I think starting with Pecker was nice.
I think big picture, hope seemed to confirm that Trump ran a micromanaged everything that happened in his little family business. And the idea that Michael Cohen would...
Catch and kill an article out of the goodness of his heart does not ring true to anybody. Well, and today, Monday, was all about the business records falsification. And that seems like a pretty airtight case. Not just because of the testimony, but they also have documents. They introduce all kinds of evidence. And it's like Allen Weisselberg writing on it like, this is for Stormy. Yeah.
Caught and killed. A-dubs. So, you know, and it's like they have this whole thing where like Trump signs all the checks and then Trump's telling people like, I want to look at every invoice. I mean, it's just it's there's a lot of evidence, a lot of evidence that he knowingly falsified the business records. Yeah. Well, I also just we went into this.
It's obvious. The evidence was there. The facts were there. It was always just the question about how novel the case was, which a bunch of liberal lawyers decided was novel. Then it became the only case going forward. Then it became iron fucking clad. And then also how serious it would be for people. Yeah.
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So Trump spent the weekend at his beach club speaking to his richest donors and potential running mates. The New York Times got a hold of an audio recording and wrote that Trump, quote, delivered a frustrated and often obscene speech lasting roughly 75 minutes where he compared the Biden administration to the Gestapo, called Jack Smith ugly, mocked Bill Barr, and said that Democrats start off with 40 percent of the vote because of federal employees, union members and people on welfare. The insinuation there is that Democrats give government assistance in exchange for votes.
Jake Tapper asked VP contender Doug Burgum about the irony of Trump making this accusation while promising tax cuts to his rich donors. And here's what he said. Donald Trump telling a room full of donors, wealthy people, millionaires, billionaires, that he's going to cut their taxes. Is that buying votes any different?
Well, first of all, I just reject the whole premise of this idea of wealthy donors. I mean, the room of people that were there yesterday are all people that were job creators. These are Americans that took risks that, you know... So they're not wealthy? Sometimes risk everything they had to start a business. Well, they're wealthy now. I was hearing that for the first time and that's good stuff. That's great. That is good stuff. I don't understand why you're using the W word, Jake.
I will just say, there's too many clips, so we didn't use this one. Doug Burgum, just a couple days ago on Fox, when he was getting interviewed by Laura Ingraham, he said that she was asking him about some Trump policy, and he's like, you know, billionaires, billionaires should want to vote for Trump because he's going to help them succeed. Sure.
Why not? I'm hoping now. Doug Burgum, he should pick Doug. My boy Doug. You're on the Doug train. Think of how great it would be to have Doug Burgum walking around talking about how billionaires have rights too. Big bushy eyebrows. Anyway, it sounds like a real fun event. Wish I could have been there. The Biden campaign responded with a statement that hit Trump for the Gestapo comments, but interestingly they led with the welfare comments.
You guys think those are more damaging? Or what were your thoughts on all that? I think Trump has done a version of the Gestapo thing. It might be new. It's one of those things where I heard it. It didn't shock me. It didn't shock me for even a second. It should have. I mean, it should upset us. Well, sure, it no longer does because Trump's killed that part of us. But yeah, the welfare comments to me, I saw people comparing it to the Romney 47% comment. Oh, the welfare stuff. The welfare stuff. And whether or not that comparison is fair.
I think anytime Trump is in a room full of plutocrats decrying the welfare state, I think you're kind of in a good zone. That's where I want to live. I like that.
Yeah, I think whenever you have a gaffe that reminds the press corps of a previous gaffe, you have a good shot at leapfrogging a couple stages of analysis right to like, oh, this is damaging. You kind of like manifest the thing into being a problem. The comparison to Mitt, right, who said 47% of the country is with Obama no matter what.
I actually think Romney's comments were worse for a couple of reasons. He was scathing about the voters themselves. He said they think they're victims. They believe they're entitled to food. Yeah, that was the title. Yeah, entitled to food and housing. People should be able to eat.
And then he said, my job is not to- Tommy thinks people should have food. Crazy talk. Wild. Then he said, my job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility, which solidified this narrative that we were pushing that he was a plutocrat and in it for his donors. Romney, though, has a conscience, and he felt bad about those comments, and he reacted in a way that demonstrated he felt bad. We later learned from his book that he thought about dropping out of the race.
Trump does not have a... Turns out Romney was a plutocrat with a heart of gold. Right. Trump does not have a conscience. I think he says worse things than whatever he said at his donor conference at rallies all the time because he's a narcissist. So he'll be fine. Also, if only...
federal employees plus union members plus people getting government assistance added up to 40% of the vote. And if only all those people were voting Democrat. They are not. This is Richard Daly's Chicago. What are you talking about? But also, in fact, much of Trump's base, people who are getting federal assistance, probably a lot of Trump's base at this point, civil service, very tiny percent of the population, union members. Wish more people were a part of union. Not the case right now. So it's just like...
It's just such a, it's such an old school view of the electorate. And it is, to love its original point, so damning to say all this in a room full of fucking billionaires who then he was like, by the way, if anyone cuts a $1 million check to me right now, you can come up and have a turn at the mic. Ooh, you get to speak to,
First of all, what a shitty... Talk to the donors? What a shitty consult. Like, oh, you get to talk to the donors. Wow. A million dollars to do a toast? And apparently no one took him up on it for a little while. And then finally, he was like... The New York Times said he seemed annoyed. He seemed upset. And then finally someone said, okay...
Is Jack Smith ugly? Where is this coming from? No, no. What do you think? Jack Smith's handsome. You're a fan? Yeah. I wouldn't have brought it up unprompted. I don't have a poster in my locker. I'm not trying to go all mullet time on you guys. I'm just serious. He's a good looking person. I do have a bobblehead on my desk. Someone sent us. One of you wonderful listeners sent us a Jack Smith bobblehead. I needed a gut check on that.
I do think that like the whole million dollar check thing, it just sort of speaks to Trump's entire approach to politics, which is authoritarian in that like if you kiss his ass, you make him richer, you know, he'll do something shitty for you. Like you can get to speak to a bunch of donors. Yeah, and then it's transactional. Yeah, it's all transactional. And if not, he'll come after you. That's it. That's his whole that's his whole shtick. So Trump's campaign team also gave a presentation at the event that reportedly included three different electoral college maps.
The first one they called the media's version, which is the seven swing states we're all familiar with. The second they called, quote, actual current reality, which is just Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin as the three states in play. And then the third they called, quote, expanded reality, which said that in addition to those three, Minnesota and Virginia are also in play.
I realize the Trump campaign isn't well equipped to give lessons on reality. But what do you guys think of their maps and their view on the race? So here's what I thought. I think if we're talking about Minnesota and Virginia, OK, I guess we can I guess we can eventually if we're talking about that, we got a lot of problems. But I want to focus on their whatever with their middle their middle scenario.
Because what I saw it and I realized like, oh, okay. So let's say you, they, they, let's just give them this. Obviously it's spin. Obviously it's bluster, but let's just give them this. So you're giving them Georgia, giving them Arizona, you're giving them Nevada. You're giving them North Carolina, obviously. This is why they're focused on that Nebraska seat.
Because if you punch those numbers in, if Biden wins Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, Trump wins those other states, and Biden wins one election,
electoral vote in Nebraska, that's 270, 268. If they stop that and it goes all red, it's 269, 269 and goes to the House. So it is, I think, I found it just, I saw it and I was like, oh, that's chilling. One of their most likely scenarios is the tie scenario. We haven't talked about it in a little while. It does seem like it is unlikely to happen in Nebraska because they just don't have the votes. Yeah.
And the governor basically said as much too. He's like, if we had the votes, we'd do it, but we don't. And then I saw that I think one of the Democratic leaders, either in the House or the Senate in Maine, did say that if Nebraska went forward with it, then Maine would go forward with taking it there. Which would undo it. Yeah, which would undo it basically. And the other piece of it- Sorry, because Maine has a split electoral vote as well. It's the only other state that does. But that does explain why they were going for it, right? They're looking at this map and seeing that like, it's not like a 270, 268. It's like a very reasonable outcome. Yeah.
Expanded reality is kind of a great term. I know. Alternative facts kind of feel to it. It's a good theme for the Trump campaign. It's actually very Bush-esque. Yeah. Remember when they were talking, they were the reality distortion field? Remember that whole thing? Unitary executive, expanded reality, it's all one fucking thing. I think just on the general point, though, like, I would just...
approach this with kind of an Occam's razor common sense view that this is a rematch of an election from four years ago and the maps kind of probably going to look like the map four years ago. And that doesn't mean Biden's going to win every state he won in 2020, but they'll be contested. And if Trump's team thinks that Minnesota and Virginia are in play, I would expect them to one, spend money there and to go there.
when you're not in court. But, you know, yeah, to Lovett's point, Biden won Minnesota by seven points and Virginia by 10. So if those states go to Trump, it's a landslide anyway. Yeah, I was looking into it. I think it's an odd two states to choose. I mean, Biden, like you said, he won by seven. I
I think the reason they thought about it is because Hillary only won Minnesota by 1.5. I forgot that it was that close in 2016. But the reason that Biden did so much better than Hillary is because he... Mostly, he got the extra margin out of the Twin Cities metro area, which are all those suburbs around the Twin Cities, which are very college-educated. And, like...
If anything, Biden has only been doing better with college-educated voters. So, like, could he do worse in, like, the Iron Range and some of the rural places in Minnesota? Yes, but, like, most of the population is Hennepin County, like, right around Minneapolis. So, like, I don't... I think that's wishful thinking on the Trump... And I think in Virginia, they're probably just thinking, like, oh...
you know, what's his face? Youngkin won, beat Terry McAuliffe. But I really think that was more about, I think we know now that that was more about Terry McAuliffe than it was about like Donald Trump or Joe Biden or national politics. This is the part of the campaign where the Democrats do a little wish casting. We talk about flipping Arkansas or whatever and Republicans do the same on their side. And then, you know, we end up battling each other in Pennsylvania for-
four grueling months or whatever by the end. Yeah. And like right now, the polls, you know, in Minnesota, there was one SurveyUSA poll that had Biden only up two in Minnesota, but the rest have had him comfortably ahead. In Virginia, recent polls have had it closer than the 10 points he won by, but they're still mid-single digits. He's got a mid-single digits lead. In the current reality map, I agree with Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin are the most important states.
I think that Arizona should be in that category. And then I think Nevada next. And then it does feel like North Carolina and Georgia will be tougher this year, but still doable. And our friends at FiveThirtyEight now finally have the averages, the polling averages for states, just so everyone knows. They have North Carolina at six point six. So Trump's up by six point six. Georgia, he's up by six. Nevada, he's up by five. And then Arizona's three, Wisconsin's three, Pennsylvania's two. And Michigan is actually the closest now. Trump's only up by a point and a half there.
So tight race, tight race. The only good thing about North Carolina is the Republicans decided to nominate Mark Robinson as their gubernatorial candidate. And he is a bona fide just nutbag. And he, you know, he's he called most recent headline I read about Mark Robinson was he called Beyonce a skank.
So that's the kind of press he's getting. So maybe he'll have some reverse coattails. Well, the polls so far are showing Josh Stein really outpacing Biden, even in that state, and beating Mark Robinson. Truly have to beat that man. He's frightening. There's been some national polls. It's still basically a tied race. But one thing to keep an eye on, few high-quality polls came out recently where they gave the results in terms of polling all adults, registered voters, and likely voters. And
Biden's doing better with registered than all adults and he's doing better with likely than either of them. And that has now been a pattern where every time they have a likely voter screen, Biden ends up doing a little bit better. So people who are saying that they're more likely to vote in the election are more likely to be Biden voters, which is not a pattern we've seen before.
didn't we didn't see it in 2020. But one theory of this is, you know, the special elections and the midterms where Democrats have been outperforming. And we keep saying, you know, I've been saying that, like, well, in a presidential election, it's a completely different electorate. And so you're going to get all these other voters who are much more Trump, you know, tend to be more unfavorable towards Trump. But, you know, if
It could be a situation where if there's a lower, oddly enough, if there is a lower turnout election, lower than 2020, and it starts to look a little bit more like a midterm electorate, then it could benefit Biden, which would be wild. But something to keep an eye on.
All right. Trump also did an episode of Apprentice VP edition during the donor retreat where he auditioned several potential running mates who were in attendance. And according to the leaked audio, made comments about each one. He even called puppy murderer Kristi Noem, quote, somebody that I love, even though she keeps digging that gravel pit deeper with one of the most bewildering and damaging press tours I have ever seen. Here's a clip from her star turn on this week's Face the Nation. You
You talk about meeting some world leaders and one specific one. Quote, I remember when I met with North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un. I'm sure he underestimated me, having no clue about my experience staring down little tyrants. I've been a children's pastor after all. Did you meet Kim Jong-un?
Well, you know, as soon as this was brought to my attention, I certainly made some changes and looked at this passage. And I've met with many, many world leaders. I've traveled around the world. As soon as it was brought to my attention, we went forward and have made some edits. So you did not meet with Kim Jong-un. That's what you're saying.
I've met with many, many world leaders, many world leaders. I've traveled around the world. I think I've talked extensively in this book about my time serving in Congress, my time as governor, before governor, some of the travels that I've had. I'm not going to talk about my specific meetings with world leaders. At the end of the book, you say the very first thing you would do if you got to the White House that was different from Joe Biden is you'd make sure Joe Biden's dog was nowhere on the grounds. Commander, say hello to cricket.
Are you doing this to try to look tough? Do you still think that you have a shot at being a VP? Well, number one, Joe Biden's dog has attacked 24 Secret Service people. So how many people is enough people to be attacked and dangerously hurt before you make a decision on a dog and what to do with it? Well, he's not living at the White House anymore. That's the question that the president should be held accountable to. You're saying he should be shot? That's what the president should be accountable to, is what is the number?
She's an entire dog murder platform. I didn't realize that part about... I hadn't heard that part about Commander Mead Crick in hell. It's not just one proposal. It's a whole thing. I didn't realize that she had a whole... I'm not retreating. I'm reloading to kill more fucking dogs. That is insane. That is insane. I love this. I love this. She apparently just went on Fox and...
and said that the reason that she told this story in her book about killing the puppy was to prove that she's, quote, not like other politicians. Yeah, okay. Mission accomplished. Yeah. You did it. Christy Dahmer over here. Is she intentionally trying to ruin her career? What do you think? I like how she acts offended on behalf of the confidentiality of her imaginary meetings. I am not going to elaborate on my meetings that didn't happen. I've really never seen anything like this. I mean...
I mean, I can't believe why she continues to do the interviews because she's because she doesn't. She only has so many. This is she's in the early. This is this is training for in front of Trump. They're going out in front of Trump and demonstrating that they can handle the press and she had to do it just to get out there. But man, the other thing, too, is.
It's okay to just say, yeah, we muffed it. It's a fuck up. It's a fuck up. It combined two stories I didn't notice in the edit. Obviously, I didn't meet with Kim Jong-un. What I love about this, you chose to write the book. I know they're trying to blame the ghostwriter now, but she also read the audio book herself. Yeah.
By the way, by the way. I didn't hear that. That's so funny. By the way, are we being, is this our own humorous? I know, I know, I know. Because we have a book coming out that we all read and we can't, we can try to blame Josh. Don't put that into the, I'm blaming Josh right now. But look, I will say in my chapters that I read, I didn't notice anything. I can't speak for you two. I don't know. I just, I don't, I don't know about you guys. When I read our chapters, I didn't disassociate. Like I heard what I said. And so if I, and I caught a couple more typos that we fixed. Yeah.
And if I read about my meeting with Kim Jong-un, I might think to myself, huh, was I one of like a half dozen living U.S. officials to ever meet with this guy? Was I the only member of Congress to ever meet with Kim Jong-un? Did I accidentally get on a plane with Dennis Rodman and not realize until I landed in Pyongyang? No. OK, well, let's fix it. But to your point, the lesson of the Trump era is like you can't back down. You can't let the liberal media see you sweat. And she also she can't.
cancel her interviews she can't apologize so she just has to do this idiotic so defensive her book is called no going back i guess that's right yeah it's it's it really like it i don't it is also i think wrong right like i think it's a like an overlearned lesson like i think it would have been it's so defensive and kind of politician-y to be like well i've met with many world leaders and we're going to go take a look at that just say like oh yeah it's an it's obviously a mistake i didn't mean with kim jong-un well she's like i was interrupted three
36 times. Although even like admitting that the problem is exactly what Tommy just said with the audio book, right? Like you can't be like, obviously to me, then why did you say it? Right. Cause I think then it starts to introduce, like, did she confuse Asian leaders? Like, it's like, what, what is the, what is the mistake? Cause she says it combined. Cause she says it was like some, there's some, there's some comments somewhere about like, Oh, it was a combined with another part of a passage and they didn't notice it. I put the combined North and South Korea. I,
- We've been working on that project for a long time. - I know, easy to do in a fake book. Also, by the way, even when you, like forget the obvious ridiculousness of claiming to have met the Korean dictator, but that tone of these political books, these like fake bio books, like, oh, you think I can't handle meeting with a foreign leader like Putin? Well, you haven't seen these six year olds when they've had too much Kool-Aid. You know, it's like that fucking shit. - I know, I know. - Like, you know, we started off,
As we started off as people who couldn't see eye to eye, but over a local craft beer and two hours of good and difficult conversation, we came to see each other's point of view. Like that kind of shit. Who's that for? Was that in Hard Choices? I was not being specific.
She put out a, she tweeted that Margaret Brennan on CBS Face the Nation interrupted her 36 times or something like that. It just turned into just this whining grievance nonsense. Which is just Mad Libs, you know, like blame liberal media. And Margaret Brennan, she's like, wait, but did you meet with Kim Jong-un? Like, now I'm confused. Politico reported that, do you know she wrote a first book? This was her second book. And in the first book, her team got her to take the story of killing the puppy out.
She put it back. Hire those people again. She demanded it go in the second book. And then she said, the reason that she put it in the second book is because opponents in past races have used it against her. So she thought she would get ahead of the story. What? How do the opponents know she murdered her dog? Did she call them? Small place. Smallest place off Dakota. Apparently it's been going around. They were at the funeral. You tell one person...
You tell one person you killed your puppy, you know, and then all of a sudden it's a whole thing. They tell two friends. And then your goat. And then the horses. She's killing everything. What do you guys think of Trump's reviews of his other potential running mates based on the audio recording that we read about? Let's do an impromptu quiz. All right, don't look at your notes. I'm going to read you what Trump said about them. You say who it was. His name is coming up a lot for vice president. Rubio. That is Rubio. As a candidate, he did a good job, but as a surrogate, he's unbelievable. Tim Scott.
He wasn't a supporter of mine at the very beginning. He was saying things like, this guy's a total disaster. You think we haven't read the prep? Yeah.
I know you know them also by heart. No, but you're picking up on what I picked up on, which was that there wasn't a single interesting or insightful observation out of the entire dozen or so that were listed here. I love your haircut and he's a good man too. That's Mike Lee. That was good. Oh, and the best one, the best one is about, he said this about Byron Donalds, a black member of Congress.
Somebody who's created something very special politically. I like diversity. Diversity, as you would say. I like diversity. Worth millions of dollars. All want a piece of Byron. Diversity. Diversity. Right out of EAP. He's having a blast up there. The guy doesn't drink. Doug Burgum. I didn't know this. He was a supporter of my two campaigns. He's a very rich man.
Again, it's just like, he's just observations, trivia. At least to phonic, a very smart person. She was in upstate New York when I met her. Little did we realize she would be such a big factor.
That was my favorite one too. The gnome one also is very much like she has no chance. It's done. So he's just kind of throwing her some love. I love her. He'll be making fun of the puppy shooting thing, but he's not going to be able to resist that. At some point he's going to go nuts. Do you guys follow Magic Johnson on Twitter by any chance? I don't. 50-50 shot. Okay. It's like so bad it's good. He has these...
utterly, he just tweets about the NBA in ways that are like Celtics shot more tonight, got more points, therefore one. It like, that's what it reminded me from Trump. Anyway, I don't know why I even raised that at this audience. I think you're going to say that Magic Johnson tweeted about the, uh, the puppy killer. Well, hopefully he will with any luck. What this reminded me of, uh,
When I had Alyssa, when Alyssa guest hosted when you guys were in DC the other week, she talked about the VP selection process she ran for Kerry and Obama and how focused they were on confidentiality and making sure that these people who you asked to tell you all their darkest secrets and do all this vetting information aren't humiliated by leaks and things. And then you have Trump, which is he's doing the exact opposite. But I wondered,
Could this be kind of a Machiavellian way to get as much dirt as you can from all your potential rivals so it's sitting there in a little folder in the future if they ever criticize you? Think about it.
Yeah, I mean, I think Trump doesn't need any material to ruin someone's political career. Just makes it up. She's called David Becker. She put one of the most damning things I've ever seen a politician get accused of in her own book. She made it easy, yeah. That's true. Did it to herself. That's fair. Anyway. No, but I do, it is interesting that like,
Trump has sort of steamrolled all these places where we used to have seriousness. And I think that's obviously been very damning. But I remember when Kerry was choosing between Edwards and Gephardt. I mean, the New York Post ran a cover that said Gephardt is picked and they got it wrong. And it was secret and it was important. And and everyone took it really, really seriously. And I don't know.
And they realize that Gephardt killed that puppy. Right. And then, yeah, he killed all those, but it's just, he just nonstop murderous brain. It's a libelous and it didn't happen. Yeah. It didn't happen. Didn't happen. Didn't happen. And then Trump does this with these people. It is. I love it. What is brilliant about it though, is he knows that he can distract the press with this.
until the day he picks. He can just do this little game and dance these people in front of the press corps and his donors and make them dance for him and he loves it. Yeah, we'll keep talking about it. It's a blast. If there's new stuff out there. And by the way, it's free to put somebody on the list and make them feel good. It's free. It is free. One note before we go to break. I just want to let everybody know I'm taking a couple weeks off
both on Posse America and Love It or Leave It. Are you being vetted for the VP search? It's happening. I'm working on something. Can't say more now. We'll tell you more about it when I'm back. But I just wanted to let everybody know we lined up some awesome guest hosts for Love It or Leave It. Andy Richter, Larry Wilmore, Maria Bamford, Matt Rogers, Louis Vertel, Ian Carmel, Langston Kerman, and Guy Branum. As it turns out, it takes...
It takes a lot of people to fill these shoes. - It's a village. - And I'm very worried that after I get back and these shows were really very, very good, that I won't be able to run through the office screaming, "I am the indispensable person, I am the talent." - Yeah. - But other than that. - We'll miss you. - Yeah, for sure. - Good luck with your Brazilian butt lift. - Sure. And you can get new, there will still be episodes Tuesdays and Saturdays, qwerky.com/events. Go to these special guest shows.
There's lavender. Oh, they're laughing. Go to cricket.com slash events. Otherwise, I'll be back for our June tour swing starting in Charlotte and Asheville, North Carolina, and then Boston. Awesome. And when we come back, we'll have Shaniqua McClendon on from Vote Save America to talk all about Organize or Else, which is our big 2024 volunteer operation.
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in our opinion. So join now. You won't regret it unless you hate fun. Subscribe to the Friends of the Pod community only at cricket.com slash friends. We will see you there. We're back and we've got with us the president of Vote Save America, Shaniqua McClendon. Hi, thank you. Boss. Yeah, man, Fiona came up with something really funny and I can't remember. It's like something princess. Politics princess. No, you don't have to. Politics princess? No.
All right. We have brought you on today, not just because we like having you here and you're in town, which is always great since you're usually in D.C., but because Vote Save America has launched the largest electoral organizing effort, not just of the year. It says here in the year ever. Oh, it is. Right. It is big.
Called Organizer Else? Yes, it's Organizer Else. So most people probably remember Adopt-A-State from 2020, where we recruited 300,000 people to volunteer and raised $46 million that year. That's a lot of money. But this year, we're doing Organizer Else, and it's a little bit different because we should have focused on the house a little bit more in 2020, and so we learned our lesson. It's our fault. Don't blame yourself. You know, we did consult you all on what we'd be focused on, but it's fine.
It's fine. And you know what? And Lovett was like, don't pay much attention to New York. I think New York's a lot. New York, California, it's a lot. Don't worry. Look, if I said one thing I said a thousand times, the New York State Democratic Party, they've got this. They're perfect. Well, we learned our lesson. But this time, we're not leaving anything. We're going everywhere. So Senate...
Karen about the White House, the House, but we're also going down ballot to state legislatures, gubernatorial elections, anything that matters. But in order to do that, we had to kind of change the way that we're doing the program. And so people can go to votesaveamerica.com slash 2024 and they basically tell us where they live and we're
whether or not they want to do virtual or in-person volunteer events. And then each week we'll send them a high impact volunteer event. But when they tell us what state they're in, they will be assigned to a team, Team East or West. And we just split the country.
along the Mississippi River, which I learned is how they do the NBA. Yeah. And so that's how it's all split up. That's how they do radio stations. They do how they do radio stations. It's K on one side and W on the other. Mississippi. Oh, YK. I didn't know that. Yeah. Shaniqua, East Coast, West Coast rivalries have famously ended in tragedy. What's your plan to prevent that? Um,
You know, this could end in tragedy if Donald Trump is elected. Yeah, she's on message. That's right. We are team captains. Yes, I was going to ask. You all live here, but what team are you on? It's the Johns. We're taking the team West. Okay. Softies. I'm on team East. Thank you. And Dan. And Dan. Tommy and Dan. Tommy, Dan, and Shanique are a team. Who else do we have on team West?
Alyssa is on Team West. No, Team East. Sorry. She's on our team. She literally lives in New York. I wish we could have had a draft. Yeah. Oh, that would have been fun. Next most important election of our life. We'll either do that in the studio or in the camps, depending on what happens. We'll draft some.
We can draft some other people. We can think about some outsiders we want to draft. Oh, that would be fun. Yeah, that's right. That's a good idea. That is. Aaron is on Team West. Hell yeah. Nice. Nice. Okay, great. Wow, that's a really great idea. So we're playing in 24 different states, 71 target races. Yeah, I know. It's a lot. I love that. But there's a lot to do. And that's why we need everyone to sign up. Like, if we could get anywhere in...
near or more would even be better. The 300,000 people that signed up in 2020, we can make sure everyone has the help they need. And we've been talking to grassroots organizations across the country and they need volunteers. Like they really, really need volunteers. We're going to need volunteers here in California. Arizona and Nevada need volunteers. Everywhere needs volunteers up and down the ballot. So we really need people to sign up. I will also say like volunteers
Volunteers have always been important to campaigns, right? And a good field operation with a lot of volunteers always makes the difference in very close races. And we are headed for another very close race. The country is very evenly divided, which means that even though that makes everyone nervous, that also means that whatever you do has a bigger impact. The other reason volunteering is so important now, probably more so this cycle than it's ever been, is...
the media infrastructure that campaigns are used to, that organizing is used to, has disappeared. It is very, very difficult for campaigns to communicate directly with voters, whether it's paid ads, whether it's media, because no one's paying attention anymore. And so what ends up being most effective is
peer to peer, person to person organizing either with people, you know, people in your community or perfect strangers. Yeah. And then having these conversations with people that is going to end up making the difference in this election. So volunteering is just not like an add on thing for campaigns. It's going to make the difference. Yeah. This is a hard pitch. All right. You listen and we love it. We're so glad that you do.
But you did not do all this paying attention over the last several years to not do this one step, which is sign up to be part of Vote Save America. This is what it was all for. This is what all the paying attention gets us. It gets us to this moment. This is why we podcast. This is why we do it. This is why we pod. This is why. This is why. This is why we download. We do 1.5x. We skip ahead. Yeah.
That's right. Can't skip ahead to November. Yeah. I wish we could. That's good. You got to do the work in the in-between. You got to do the work. I like that. Also, speaking of doing the work, I'm really smart to pick 71 races because that just sounds like you put so much thought into it. We did. No, we really, really did. I hate to use the word anal about this stuff, but what is a better word than that?
I don't know. You really drew attention to it. Honestly, if you just said it, we would have been fucking fine. I would just say it again and just go through it. I hate to be so... No, we're using this already. You're not getting an edit. Was the 72nd candidate Henry Cuellar? You know, I don't care for that man. Neither does the FBI. We're learning that today. I hope he has fun with whatever happens. Yeah, we all do. Sorry. You know, I want to keep the house all that. Anyway, sign up. If you're listening to Pod Save America...
and you're not signed up to Vote Save America, unless you're just like hate listening because you're some right wing MAGA person, that's fine. But if you're listening and you don't want Donald Trump in the White House,
this is going to do a lot more than just listening or posting. Also, it's really fun. It's really fun. You'll meet the best people. You'll have a good time. And you can do whatever you want. Like, if you don't want to talk to people face-to-face, you can send text messages, like, just tell us what you want to do and we'll send you something to do. Absolutely. And I know, like, maybe you say to yourself, like, oh, but I'm not really political. I just listen because I like to write fan fiction about Dan and Tommy. Still. You think that's the most popular one? I think it's up there with the right-wing freaks. There's me plus Yes We Dan slash fic? Yeah.
There is now. There is now. You just manifested it. You just put that into the world? Wow. You just put that into the world on my behalf?
Man. Anyway, is this what you hoped for? Yeah. It was a late night at the White House. Oh, my gosh. Wow. You know what? If people sign up and we win the election, Lovett will finish whatever he's talking about. Oh, that's a good. That's a deal. Honestly, honestly, that's a deal. There's a joke I'm trying to get at. It's something about how the P isn't always silent. I don't know. Oh.
This is taking a turn. Olivia's like, nope, nope, nope. Olivia cut that. I don't know. The P in Pfeiffer. Well, that's all the time we have for today. Thank you, Shaniqua, for joining Pod Save America. Sign up for Organize or Else at votesaveamerica.com slash 2024 slash 2024. Got a big URL debate brewing back here, folks. We're letting you in on it. Got a big URL fight happening.
Putting the soft P in Pfeiffer is the joke? I was thinking the P and the V. Make sure they're recording. Like Tommy said that late night at the White House. Let's leave that in. All right. Thanks to Shaniqua for joining us. And we will have a brand new episode for you on Wednesday. Bye, everyone. And a brand new butt. Bye. Bye.
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Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our show is produced by Olivia Martinez and David Toledo. Our associate producers are Saul Rubin and Farrah Safari. Kira Wakeem is our senior producer. Reid Cherlin is our executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis.
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