Republicans Beg Trump to Be New Person
48:23 Share

Conclave is a gripping thriller from Academy Award-winning director Edward Berger, starring Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, and Isabella Rossellini, only in theaters October 25th. The Pope is dead. The throne is vacant. Conclave is an unprecedented and illuminating glimpse into the inner workings of the Catholic Church as it follows one of the world's most secretive and ancient events, selecting the new Pope.

Conclave is only in theaters October 25th. Visit conclavethefilm.com to get tickets now.

Anthropics Cloud is AI backed by uncompromising integrity. Cloud is run by responsible leadership who have an ethical approach to the development of AI while providing strong data security and putting humanity first. Whether you're brainstorming alone or building with a team, Cloud can help you do your best work securely. Discover how Cloud can transform your work and business at anthropic.com slash cloud or find Cloud on Apple and Android app stores.

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. On today's show, Donald Trump holds another absolute banger of a press conference while Kamala Harris and Joe Biden hold their first joint event since the president left the race. Big announcement about lower drug prices. And later, RFK Jr. was apparently willing to drop out of the race if Kamala Harris offered him a job. But first...

There is one topic that Republicans are focusing on the last couple days, and it's not Kamala Harris or the economy or even immigration. It's this. Quit whining about her. The campaign is not going to win talking about crowd sizes. It's not going to win talking about what race Kamala Harris is. It's not going to win talking about whether she's dumb.

I will say that in that discussion with Elon, to me, he seemed quite rambling. I mean, it was like he rambles. He goes on too long at his rallies and in these exchanges and at his presser the other day to where you get kind of bored. You lose the thread. You lose interest. The winning formula for President Trump is very plain to see. It's fewer insults, more insights, and that policy contrast. It's insane to attack Trump.

Kamala Harris personally when in fact the attacks on her actual policy statements

will be much more devastating. So that was Nikki Haley, Megyn Kelly, Kellyanne Conway, and Peter Navarro. Fresh from prison to the podcast studio. Yeah, he was guest hosting for Steve Bannon on The War Room. I guess Tommy wasn't available. Well, they record the same time as Pod Save the World, so Tommy's never available for the gig of his dreams. Peter Navarro went to prison for Trump.

And now is criticizing his campaign strategy. Maybe you should take what he has to say a little bit seriously. No rhino there. So Republicans are once again nervous that Trump's lack of discipline and obsession with petty grievances, a.k.a. his personality, might cost him a race. He was favored to win just a month ago.

So his campaign tried to send the old man out to talk about the economy in what was billed as a major policy speech in North Carolina this week. Let's listen to how that went. We're talking about a thing called the economy. They wanted to do a speech on the economy. A lot of people are

Spoiler.

He did not talk about the economy in that economic policy speech. He ended up just going on. He did his usual STEM speech, rambling. He did his tampon Tim thing. He's yelling about Kamala Harris. It was just a complete mess. So then...

Trump's advisers somehow convinced him to shuffle out of another one of his golf clubs today for a redo on economic messaging. Let's see how that went. She's running on the Maduro plan. We call it the Maduro plan, like something straight out of Venezuela or the Soviet Union. He wants to change a free enterprise type country into Europe.

A communist type country. That's what she knows. Ideas and Joe Biden too. I mentioned him, but he's sort of gonzo. But you're allowed to rob a store as long as it's not more than $950. Has everyone ever heard of that? You can rob a store and you have thieves going into stores with calculators calculating how much it is.

because if it's less than $950, they can rob it and not get charged. That was her. I think I'm entitled to personal attacks. I don't have a lot of respect for her. I don't have a lot of respect for her intelligence. And I think she'll be a terrible president. And I think it's very important that we win. And whether the personal attacks are good, bad, I mean, she certainly attacks me personally. She actually called me weird. He's weird. And by the way, I'm a big fan of electricity.

It was nearly two hours, this press conference. He walks out of Bedminster in New Jersey, his country club there, and he's surrounded by tables with cereal and other products because they wanted to do an inflation event, a high prices event.

And he walks out. He sort of sticks to the script for a little while. He seems just terribly bored reading what his advisors wanted him to say. He's doing like he's just reading off statistics about the economy. This price is up 30 percent, blah, blah, blah. Done those things. Then he goes and starts taking questions and just all bets are off as per usual. He was talking about he was criticizing Hillary Clinton at one point.

And talking about how she should feel lucky that he never threw her in jail and he never really wanted to throw her in jail. And then he went back to the bleach bit. He's playing the old hits now. She's banging her Blackberry around and burning the emails. It was wild. What did you think? Favorite moments? I just want to start with the premise here that they held...

an event to highlight the high cost of living at a golf club where it costs a half a million dollars to join. You don't think that's a good setting? It's truly one of the fucking stupidest things I've ever seen a campaign do in my life. It's because he's too lazy to go do it at a grocery store. There's clearly a grocery store pretty close because they went and bought all the groceries. And I will, this is a small thing that only people like

us care about, but they set almost all the groceries up so they weren't in the camera shot. So it was just like him and a random box of honey bunches of oats next to him. Yes, there was Cheerios, three coffees and some meat just sitting baking in the sun there for two hours.

And then all of a sudden, all these signs with the that apparently had the increase like an egg cost or something over the course of the Biden-Harris administration. No one saw any of that. They just all they saw was three tubs of coffee, some rotting meat and his golf club in the background. I mean, just insane. A truly insane thing for a campaign to do, like blown away by how stupid it was.

I think it's very funny that that clip that we played of Republicans giving him advice. They're like, Kellyanne Conway's like, don't go with the personal insults. Talk about policy. And Nikki Haley's like, stop complaining about her. And then you heard there at the press conference, he's like, I'm entitled to my personal attacks on Kamala Harris. He just goes right into it.

Well, that's in response to a question that was asked by a CNN reporter, essentially about the argument of Nikki Haley and others have made about the personal attacks. And apparently that's something a lot of Republicans have been saying on the Hill. And he then answered that with a 10 minute...

10 minutes? Tyrate of personal attacks on people. I couldn't, I, I, I came into the studio to interview our friend David Plouffe, who's now in the Harris campaign. Tune into The Wilderness this Sunday at the finale. I get a great conversation with Plouffe. And I came out and he's like still giving that answer. Yeah.

It was wild. I was like, I can't believe he's, I'm like, John and Tommy. I was like, what, what else? What's going on? What did I miss? Are you still talking? I'm still giving this answer. Sometimes I do the thing where I wait till it's over. And then I watch Trump at, you know, 1.75 speed to prepare for this podcast or whatever else I'm doing. But you know, it was that, it was that one 30 hour time of day. We're recording it three hour time. Like, you know, I'm going to sit in front of the TV and I'm going to watch it. And I watched it and I watched it.

And I watched it. And my kids came home from school. And I'm still watching it. It's just... I mean, did he actually stop? I had to leave my house to come to my office to walk in. Right before I came in here, he was about to leave. And then they had one more shouted question. Do you wish you hadn't debated Joe Biden? No.

He did a whole that was the thing he was most passionate about in the opening remarks. He went on a little tangent about how he did too good in the debate by taking Joe Biden out. And maybe that was a mistake. He did. He did circle back to that. One thing I noticed is that, like, even last time he did a press conference, I was kind of like, I can't believe we have to watch this. But you know what? He always says some crazy shit. It'll be fun. We'll have some good content to talk about on America.

Like this one, we were just sitting there and he's going to go and I'm like, he's so boring. It's like what Megyn Kelly was saying, right? Where he just like, he rambles on and on and on and you lose interest. And it's just like, if it is not your job to watch Donald Trump like it is ours. Yeah.

Wonderful. Wonderful. What a series of chosen mistakes have found us in this place. Why would you? I don't know why you'd watch that. Even if you like Donald Trump, I don't know why you'd watch that. It's so fucking boring. It's not easy to watch either. CNN cut him off like 20 minutes into the opening remarks and came back for the questions. So we all tend to think that the that the the

the rambling, the incoherence, the two-hour press conferences. Like, you know, it's not really helping with persuadable voters, not really helping with much.

But it does keep him in the news cycle. He is in the news cycle more than he has been. Now, in the Biden-Trump race, the theory was the more Trump, the better, because then everyone's going to remember what they don't like about Trump. You know, now with Harris and Trump, people really like Kamala Harris, and she's doing really well, and she's got sort of this hopeful, joyful message. And I wonder, just as an intellectual exercise here,

Do we think that there's a case to be made for the let Trump be Trump and more Trump the better strategy that they are seemingly pursuing now based on just, I'm sure, the desires of one man, Donald Trump? Oh, we're all intellectuals now, huh, John? We're all intellectuals, just like Tim said, just for this speech. There is no...

way in any sort of intellectual exercise, I could justify a strategy that allowed Trump to be this Trump. Boring, aggrieved, rambling. He mumbles through the message and the only thing he gets passionate about are things that involve personal grievances against him. This is... That does not matter. And I think it is... Like, it's... It is...

From a strategic question, it's sort of interesting because Trump's approval number, like he is, obviously Kamala Harris is doing much better against Trump than Biden was, but Trump's favorable ratings are the highest they have been possibly ever, other than maybe a blip right after COVID. He's in the mid 40s in the battleground states. Certainly higher than they were at this point in 2016 and 2020 in the campaigns. Yes, for sure. And that it might be because

He has been out of the news for a month. There's been no Trump. And that may have helped him. Now, he can't just let Kamala Harris run to the White House on a wave of energy, hope, and joy as she is doing right now. So he needs a strategy to get in the news. And it's one of the reasons why he's acting like a lunatic is he has now run for president three times. In a row. In a row. Who's the last candidate that's run for president three times in a row?

like Ron Paul, maybe? I don't, I mean. Yeah, besides like your gadflies. Yeah, I don't think there is a threefer in modern history. We need to bring our own Daniel Dale. FDR? Maybe FDR? FDR, yes, yes. FDR, there we go. You have to go that far back. Okay. But this is the first time that he has been losing the attention wars, right? In 2016, he dominated, obviously, the Republican primary. None of them get their message out. Through much of the general election, Hillary Clinton was responding to Trump, right? Yeah.

2020, Biden had the strategy of basically let Trump light himself on fire, and that strategy worked. In 2024 against Biden, Biden just had no ability to ever put Trump on the defensive. That was not in his wheelhouse. But what Kamala Harris is doing is not only is she getting attention and dominating it, she's kind of doing it without really talking about Trump. Trump is obviously in her speech.

But it is not the way that everyone in politics and media has gotten attention for the last nine fucking years, which is take the crazy thing Trump says and then respond to that. She is driving the conversation and he is being forced to respond to her. And so he has to do something to change that dynamic. The things they have currently tried are not working for them. And this is not the right approach. So I don't believe they just let more of this or more Trump is good, but they need to find something between don't be in the news at all and

call the cameras to your golf club to light yourself on fire. Right? There's got to be like a happy middle ground there strategically. In his mind, I would bet that he believes all attention is good attention, even if it's negative, right? Even if he's saying, he just wants to be in the news. He thinks that helps him just being in the news because he's got to get attention. I think that

Even though he knows the economy is the top issue, despite the fact that in that North Carolina speech, he questioned that. He doesn't believe that if he just talks about the economy, immigration, Kamala Harris's record, her plans, that that's going to do anything for him because A, people have sort of made up their minds about him. And B, that's not going to get him the kind of attention that he craves and that he needs. And

And so what he wants to do, that's why he said that thing, I think, about the personal insults, which is like he wants to draw her in to a fight.

You know, and he he probably the thing he hates the most is that she is not responding to him. Like you said, that she is barely talking about him or she's just talking about him like he's like a washed up entertainer in the past. That's probably driving him crazy because what he wants to do is to goad her into responding to some of the crazy shit that he says about her. And so far, he hasn't been able to do that. And I'm sure that's why he's probably looking forward to the debate. I think he is also confused attention and approval.

Right. What he wants is not to actually capture the mind share of the voters who are going to start the election. It's he wants applause. And the economy stuff doesn't get the applause, right? We're talking to David Oxenrod on Wednesday's podcast. He made the point that Trump got up there to do the unity stuff during the convention speech, realized the unity stuff didn't get applause. We went back to throwing them the red meat. And it's the same thing in all these events, right? He gets up there. He does the egg prices or whatever, or the gas prices, whatever else.

And the rabid crowd of MAGA people in the room don't cheer for that. They're not showing up for that, right? They're showing up for the old hits. They're showing up for the shtick. But the audience is not people in the room. The audience is the people who are watching the coverage of what he's saying. And he can't separate those two things in his head because he wants the applause too much.

The other thing when I was talking to Plouffe, you know, he said that Trump is at 46 in some of these battleground states. He's as high as 48 in some other battleground states.

But it makes me think that like he's not really gaining a lot of vote share here. And his vote share has been relatively stable this entire race, even with all that's happened, survives an assassination attempt, convicted felon, wins the debate with Biden. Like Biden went up and down and then down and then Kamala Harris went up. But like,

Donald Trump has stayed steady. So how do you win if you're between 46 and 48 percent of the vote? Well, you try to peel off some of her voters and either have them go third party or have them stay home. And you do that by just a scorched earth campaign where you say as much crazy shit about her as possible. It seems like that's that's his path.

Because if she consolidates enough vote where she's getting 48, 49, 50 in these states, he can't win.

That's right. There is scorched earth and then there is strategic attacks that actually peel off voters, right? He's just throwing all the shit against the wall. And once again, he is judging success or failure based on the applause of people who would lie down and moving traffic for him, not on the voter's side. Like if you're trying to – like who is the soft Kamala Harris voter who's going to listen to the stuff Trump just said and move away from her based on that? No.

No. Some of the stuff they have on air about immigration and the economy, that's a different deal. But Trump – there's a real gap between what Trump's saying and what's in the paid media and –

I mean, and what in Franklin, the presidential campaign, what the candidate says in the broader social media media conversation is way more important than the ads. And until those get in alignment, he's in trouble, I think. OK, two quick things before we go to break. Big news. The very first episode of Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams is out now. Stacey Abrams, Crooked Media podcast. We love it.

On Assembly Required, Stacey's breaking down the most complex issues in American politics and asking, how did we get here? What obstacles lie ahead? And what can we do to make the kind of change we want to see? The first episode is all about how the Electoral College sucks, and it spotlights the activists working on ways to counteract its power, including with ranked choice voting. If you are looking for a pod that makes your political conversation smarter and keeps you motivated for the long haul, and you love listening to Stacey Abrams, and who doesn't?

This is your pod. You're going to love it. New episodes drop on Thursdays. You can follow and listen to Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams right now wherever you get your podcasts. Take a second right now. Go. Find Stacey Abrams' podcast. Click on it. Save it for later. Remind yourself to go listen to it. Follow it. Rate it. It's going to be great.

All right. Also, speaking of the convention, a reminder that we will be doing a reaction show every night from Chicago. But we're also going to do a ton of great stuff just for Friends of the Pod subscribers. We'll have lots of behind-the-scenes content and community events, including a DNC live chat for subscribers and a new subscriber-exclusive segment featuring Lovett, Tommy, and Dan. Not me. I am learning about this in real time. What the fuck's my name?

What are we doing? I don't know. I guess I'm not doing anything. Keep reading. Let's learn. And of course, if that's it, that's all we got. If you subscribe, you get all four of next week's shows ad free. Isn't that nice? Isn't that nice? Head to crooked.com slash friends to sign up now and you'll find out what the content is, I guess, right when Dan does. Whatever time it takes to edit it and put it up. That's the only head start I'll have.

Pods of America is sponsored by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online. With Squarespace, it's easy to create a beautiful website all on your terms.

You don't want to miss Fluid Engine, a next-generation website design system from Squarespace with reimagined drag-and-drop technology for desktop or mobile. With Squarespace email campaigns, you can drive sales and engage your audience. Easily collect email subscribers on your site and build connections. Plus, use insights to grow your business. Squarespace helps you learn where your site visits and sales are coming from and analyze which channels are most effective.

We love Squarespace. We've used it before here at Crooked. It helps you make websites very easily. You don't have to be an engineer. You don't have to know code right out of the box. You just make a website and it looks great. And it is very helpful and an easy product to use. Head to squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com slash crooked to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

Pod Save America is brought to you by Magic Spoon. As a kid, everyone always loved eating cereal, but as an adult, you don't want all that sugar and most cereals don't give you the protein you need. Introducing Magic Spoon, a nostalgically delicious cereal that tastes just like your childhood favorites, but without the sugar and with a ton of protein.

Every serving of Magic Spoon cereal has 13 grams of protein, 0 grams of sugar, and 4 grams of net carbs, so you can feel good about what you're eating. The most popular flavors are Fruity and Cocoa, and there's so many more. And if you're already a Magic Spoon fan, Magic Spoon has turned their super popular cereal into high-protein treats that are light, crispy, and taste just like those classic crunchy cereal bars.

Magic Spoon's brand new treats are so delicious and will become your favorite before and after gym snack. I had two bowls of Magic Spoon cereal this morning. I had one of those Magic Spoon treat bars last night. I love Magic Spoon. I have a subscription to Magic Spoon, so it comes to my house once a month. That's what a fan I am. This is a product I would eat even if I wasn't selling it on this podcast.

Get $5 off your next order at magicspoon.com slash crooked or look for Magic Spoon in your nearest grocery store. That's magicspoon.com slash crooked for $5 off. Magic Spoon, hold on to the dream. Pod Save America is brought to you by Brooklinen. With all the life that happens in your bedroom with pets, family, hobbies, me time, date night, etc. A lot carried in that etc. Am I right, John? Give me a high five, huh? For etc. How does your bedroom re-energize you, John?

Oh, the sheets. Oh, the sheets. Yes, they are comfortable. I love Brooklyn and sheets. Me too. I, you know that I've recently become a linen sheets person. I never was. I always thought they'll do linen sheets. I thought I couldn't either. I thought I couldn't either. But Brooklyn is changing that for you? I thought I wasn't a linen person. And then I tried and I was like, I'm not going back. We're not going back. We're not going back.

They have everything you need to style your dream bed with layers, textures, throws, blankets. Super high quality products have been tested and awarded by experts including Good Housekeeping, GQ Wirecutter, and more with over 100,000 five-star reviews.

So you might be wondering...

Who could possibly get Trump back on message? Well, we got our answer today. Corey Lewandowski, Trump's 2016 campaign manager, who's been fired twice from Trump World, once in June of the 2016 campaign after he was charged with misdemeanor battery for grabbing a reporter, and then he was fired again in

from a pro-Trump super PAC in 2021 when he was accused by a top Trump donor's wife of making unwanted sexual advances towards her. Now he's back on as senior advisor. And Trump's also bringing back an array of other goons from past campaigns and other parts of his life. Always a good sign, right? How do you think this is going to work? I think, look...

What could possibly go wrong is what I would say. What could possibly go wrong? This is the sort of – like these are comfort items for Trump, right? He's feeling at sea. He needs his blankie. Corey Lewandowski has his blankie. And it's a way – this is the thing that –

Clearly, Chris Acevedo and Susie Wiles are giving to Trump to preserve their role in the campaign. There are people calling for their heads. Trump has never gone this long without really firing a campaign manager of sorts. So this is addition instead of subtraction. And I'm sure they're going to continually give Corey Lewandowski the wrong passcode to the Zoom for the meetings. And maybe he'll fly on the plane with Trump or whatever. Like we did to you this morning?

Yeah, I mean, look, you have a campaign like that and you start adding people, especially people from the past who were fired. Yeah, it's not great management style. It's never a great sign. So we're heading into the DNC next week, which will be, you know, wall to wall coverage of Democrats message. What is Trump's next opportunity to change the narrative here? Like what is the what do you if you're trying to be strategic on that campaign, what do you do?

You probably kind of wind Trump down. Maybe send him to some battleground states. Do some lighter type stuff. Sedatives, some horse tranquilizer. Only show him, limit his media diet probably. No, I think you probably are looking at the first debate on September 10th because you're going convention to Labor Day weekend to start a school and you have to deal that debate if you're Trump. Like that is, if he goes there and he gets his ass kicked, that's a huge problem for him.

And they are probably guessing that since the media is already sort of getting antsy and tired of the like Kamala's, you know, joyful campaign is surging narrative. She's going to sit down for an interview at some point. She's going to take questions. They're going to want a real race. And then if, you know, if that happens around the debate and then they can argue that, you know, he didn't do horrible at the debate or he won the debate, then maybe they can change things.

And you can see that through the beginnings of that strategy in the statement today, like originally it was billed as just he's going to talk about inflation, but he sort of unloaded the oppo file on Kamala Harris and he just did every single position she's ever changed on, every position she took that's too liberal, all of that stuff. He just he did it all today. So I guess that's a preview of what they're going to do.

I guess a couple of things they would do. One is wait for her to potentially make a mistake. She has been, she has not made one to date. Maybe one happens in an interview or something on the trail. So you can see something because the press is bored of this. And then there is always this thing with poll numbers where the press reads them in the context of the narrative they're currently saying. So right now it's like Kamala Harris is surging, right? She's got all the momentum and that is true. She is surging momentum, but you can also look at the polls and say, okay,

After all of that, she only has a one-point lead in the national polls. Right. Right. Or she's not ahead. They're going to look at this. They're going to get past the convention. Maybe she'll get a little bump in the convention. It's typically three points and pretty fleeting historically. And we'll be heading into the debate. You're going to see the press are like,

Trump made it through all of that and he's still only down two points. Yeah. And then the narrative shifts, right? And then the pressures on her and the debate and everyone. Yeah, that's, that's, that's what they're hoping for. Okay. Uh, well, Trump flails and Republicans complain. Democrats, uh,

They're just in such a ray. We are just, we're crushing it. Thursday in Maryland, Kamala Harris and Joe Biden held an event together. Their first joint appearance since Biden stepped down from the race. The event was notable for two things. One, Harris and Biden driving a clear message on an incredibly popular policy. Imagine that. Two, the amount of love in the room for Joe Biden and the feeling of ease between him and Harris. Let's listen to a clip. We've,

We finally addressed the long-standing issue that for years was one of the biggest challenges on this subject, which was that Medicare was prohibited by law from negotiating lower drug prices. And those costs then got passed on to our seniors, but not anymore. Folks, I have an incredible partner. The progress we've made, she's going to make one hell of a president.

And of course I could speak all afternoon about the person that I am standing on this stage with.

Let's start with the vibes. What did you think of the vibes? Joe Biden seemed happy. Kamala Harris seemed happy. The crowd was loving it. That's great. When I saw this on the calendar, and then I saw this on the calendar on a day that we were podcasting with an event happening right before we podcast, I dreaded this. I felt like maybe it was going to be awkward or strange or tension-filled, and it was on the above. It was awesome. You know why? Because we weren't there. That's why.

Speak for yourself. I would have been there in full sport. Well, I thought it was great. I mean, the president really did seem unburdened. Yes. He wasn't. He was touting. He was having fun. He was cracking jokes, having a good time. Donald Dump. Good joke there. I don't know.

I don't know what that was, but yeah, sure. Great. And also, more importantly, incredible accomplishment. Now, like the top 10 drugs under Medicare now much cheaper. Truly one of the most popular policies anyone has ever passed. You know, I just saw a poll from the folks at Blueprint, which said that 70% of people thought that this policy was good.

But also 70% of people thought this policy would affect themselves or people in their family. Right? Like you hear all kinds of people like, I love this policy. It's great, but it would never affect me. Here's one that everyone thinks is going to help them. And that's just, it's a huge accomplishment. It's a huge political winner. It was great to see them talking about it. It was great to see the easy chem, that easy chemistry is still there with them. It was just great. The whole thing was great.

There are certain policies that Democrats have loved forever and talked about forever, and they also happen to poll really well. And one of them has always been, we're going to have Medicare negotiate for cheaper drug prices, and we're going to take on the drug companies to make sure that people, and especially seniors on Medicare, don't have to pay too much for their prescriptions. And for years and years,

couldn't get it done and in the inflation reduction act joe biden and kamala harris got it done and you know they've biden talked a lot in the campaign about uh capping insulin at 35 there's other drugs aside from insulin that a lot of people count on they were way too expensive and now they're going to be able to afford them because of this it is a it is a huge accomplishment and you know we don't talk a lot of policy here but we should people should be pretty pretty proud of that accomplishment and it's going to really make a difference in people's lives

The conventional wisdom is that like Harris doesn't want to be like tied too closely to the Biden administration because Biden's approval ratings were quite low for most of the campaign. But what it didn't it doesn't see this seems to be an example of why being tied to the Biden administration and specifically the Biden administration's accomplishments could be quite a good thing for her.

Do you know who's newly popular again? Joe Biden. Everyone's approval rating is up. Harris's, Biden's, Trump's. Yeah, his approval rating and his approval ratings have gone up since he made his decision. He's obviously become a less polarizing figure. Democrats who...

Even if they love the president personally, we're head concerns about him running. They now will tell pollsters they like him. It is a tricky dance for her because she does not want to be the incumbent in this race. She's actually managed to make Trump the incumbent. He is the past. He is status quo. She has changed. But there are these really important things they've done, which and I thought this was smart about the way they did this in this event is here's the thing we did. And here this is proof positive that we're going to do similar things and we take on powerful special interests in the future.

And so this was the right tone for doing it. And just all over, you know, Biden, when he was on a CBS interview over the weekend, talked about how he had talked to Governor Shapiro about doing a tour of Pennsylvania at some point with him to campaign for Harris and the Democratic ticket. And there are voters that Biden can be helpful with Harris. Like when you look at the polling, she has gained with a whole younger voters, black voters, Latino voters, but she has lost some with older white voters and Biden can be helpful with that.

Yeah, no, he definitely can. And to your point about here's some great stuff we did. We took on

powerful interests, brought down costs for people, and now she's going to do more in the future. That future is today, where she is delivering a major economic policy speech. Unlike Trump, I think she's actually going to probably give the speech. According to Politico, the focus of the speech is going to be a federal ban on price gouging and other actions she'll take in her first 100 days to lower the cost of groceries and other everyday expenses.

She will also reportedly call for the construction of 3 million housing units by offering tax incentives for builders that contract properties for first-time homebuyers. What do you think of that? What do you think of those policies? Love it. Love it. I feel like I was listening to a podcast recently that maybe they suggested this would be a good idea to do these economics before the convention. Was it Hacks on Tap?

Well, I listen to Axl on Tap. I took that idea I brought to you. I mean, obviously, they did not get this idea from our podcast. I'll be very clear about that. But I think this is very smart because the – I can get to the politics and the policy in a second here. But just she has this tremendous burden that she's been running for a month. She's about to give her convention speech. A normal candidate at this point who had not just started a month before the convention would have given –

12 economic speeches over the course of the primary and the general election already. And you don't want your convention speech to be the State of the Union. It's just like a laundry list of policies. So by doing this now, and it's a really, I would say, unfair burden to put on their speechwriters to have to write this speech during the convention. But this is going to make it easier to give a convention speech that tells her story in

in the context of values, not policy. So I think it's great they're doing it. These are the right policies. These are popular policies. It's very smart. It's like really stark contrast to the absurdity we just saw with Trump today.

it's also she's addressing the top issues on voters minds and we were just talking about like tying her you know kamala harris tying herself too closely to biden or not or what did she do the number one concern about biden was his age that was like the number one driver of his low approval rating and the fact that people you know did not want this trump biden rematch and they weren't sure that they wanted to vote for joe biden for another four years

And then the only other driver, I think, significant driver of his approval rating was concerns about lingering high prices from inflation and costs. And that he had not done enough about that, even though he gave us the strongest recovery of any other country since COVID. But prices are still high. And so that is on people's minds. And on that issue...

If she just focuses on her plans to lower costs for people and goes around saying, you know, look, people were struggling with high costs even before the pandemic sent inflation soaring.

And it's been like this for decades. And, you know, we've made progress and President Obama made progress with the Affordable Care Act and Joe Biden made progress. And we made progress in the White House by bringing down the cost of prescription drugs and energy and child tax credits. But now I got to do more to bring down costs for everyone. And so I'm going to bring down the cost of groceries. I'm going to bring down the cost of housing. Look, I...

Every focus group I did for the wilderness in 2022, every single, I'm like a broken record on this, every single demographic, everywhere I went,

Open-ended question, what are you worried about? It's not that people said the word inflation or high cost. Housing. Housing was the first thing. The cost of housing is the biggest challenge for people. And it is not a topic that politicians have necessarily talked about a lot, or at least it's not been central to the national debate over the last –

decade maybe, maybe since we had the housing crisis around the Great Recession. And so coming out by talking about building new houses and incentives and stuff like that, it's a state and local issue. It's not just a national issue, but the federal government has a role here. And the fact that she's now like now her big plans, her big economic plans are to lower the price of groceries, drugs, health care and housing.

I mean, it's great. It's great. And it's very popular. And I think it's going to be a great message to run on. And just in breaking news here, the Wall Street Journal is now reporting that tomorrow Kamala Harris is going to propose a $25,000 in down payment support for first-time homebuyers. Wow. That's great. It's great. Obviously, we can't speak to the full substance of policy. We know her economic advisors. I'm sure it's great. But from a political perspective, from a narrative perspective, this is right on the money.

Also, she's running against a former slumlord. Yes. Donald Trump has screwed people out of their housing forever. He has cheated people, homeowners, for a long, long time. So it's a great contrast. Pod Save America is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Hey, listeners, you may not know this, but Crooked has been around for over seven years.

That's a lot of political stories and interviews, commentary, and opportunities for action. And I can't believe how much we've grown. We started Crooked in 2017. In addition to John, Tommy, and I, there were three more people sitting around my kitchen table. I think there were six of us all together. That was the company. We...

opened a bank account, put $25 into it, and that was Crooked Media. Now we have, I don't even know how many employees. I think we're pushing 100. And we have grown this business and have this wonderful community and wonderful audience. And

You know what? We used ZipRecruiter to get a lot of our employees because it helps you sift through resumes with some really great technology so that it can be a lot easier to hire because hiring is difficult. In our experience, the best place to find and hire the most brilliant people is ZipRecruiter.

In fact, we've got a few jobs posted on ZipRecruiter right now, like producer, art director, and research associate. If your business is growing and you want the best people working for you, use ZipRecruiter. Its powerful matching technology finds qualified candidates for your roles fast. And today you can try it for free at this exclusive web address, ziprecruiter.com slash crooked. Once again, that's ziprecruiter.com slash crooked.

Conclave is a gripping thriller from Academy Award-winning director Edward Berger, starring Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, and Isabella Rossellini, only in theaters October 25th. The Pope is dead. The throne is vacant. Conclave is an unprecedented and illuminating glimpse into the inner workings of the Catholic Church as it follows one of the world's most secretive and ancient events, selecting the new Pope.

Conclave is only in theaters October 25th. Visit conclavethefilm.com to get tickets now. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Therapy is great. It is, John. It is helpful for learning positive coping skills and how to set boundaries. It empowers you to be the best version of yourself. And it isn't just for those who've experienced major trauma. Everyone can use therapy. Just great to talk to someone. I'm gonna, I texted my therapist. I said, I'm coming back after this election.

Either way, win or lose. She's like, who is this? New number. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge.

Visit BetterHelp.com slash PSA today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash PSA. All right, so if you've noticed that the last we heard from RFK Jr. was when he was talking to Roseanne about dumping a dead bear cub he had planned to eat in Central Park, you're not alone.

It seems like he might at least be considering a way out of his campaign. According to Kennedy campaign officials, RFK Jr. has approached the Harris campaign about meeting with her and also the possibility of dropping out and endorsing her if she'll give him a job in the administration. It seems like he has not been able to secure that meeting yet. Does it seem like the Harris folks have gotten back to him? I don't know.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I don't think they're going to give him a job in the administration. Kennedy himself threw cold water on this idea after it was reported in The Washington Post. He wrote a tweet on Wednesday night that said, VP Harris's Democratic Party would be unrecognizable to my father and uncle, and I cannot reconcile it with my values. And he ended it with, I have no plans to endorse Kamala Harris for president. I do have a plan to defeat her.

Sure. Worth noting, RFK Jr. also met with Donald Trump in Milwaukee during the RNC and might have made a similar offer to him. J.D. Vance got in on the action today, urging RFK Jr. to endorse Trump, saying they have similar views on quote-unquote medical freedom and not starting stupid wars. What do you think is going on here with RFK Jr., Dan? Well, I would say that RFK Jr. is an example of the apple falling very far from the tree. I mean, it...

The whole thing's absurd. He will forever, in my mind, be defined by the dead bear cub video. Just truly one of the most bizarre stories ever told. And even more bizarre that it was told on video and then released to the public.

To Roseanne. To Roseanne. Like, how did that? I don't want to, yeah. The story's incredible. I could tell the story forever. I mean, the part where he goes to Peter Luger with the dead bear cub at his back. The falconing at the beginning. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out the geography of going from Peter Luger to Central Park to the airport. I know. I've been very, yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Where was he going? Why was it a night flight? What was happening? I just don't understand any of it.

And then there was the bear cub meat, right? But that's the soon to be eaten bear cub meat. He does have a plan in his defense to defeat Kamala Harris. And that plan is to be funded by Trump's biggest donors to take away two to 3% of her vote in a couple of battleground states and elect Donald Trump. That is his plan to defeat Kamala Harris. He has that plan. The problem for him in this is that his appeal is,

We saw this. I remember you and I both listened, as we always do, to Sarah Longwell's focus groups on RFK curious voters and what they all said about whether they were former Biden supporters or former Trump supporters, Republicans or Democrats, was he was the anti-politician. These guys are all corrupt and he was not. Here he is doing the single most corrupt thing you can possibly do in politics, which is you have said these people are terrible, they're warmongers, but you're going to support them in exchange for a job?

And you've gone to both of them. That's like the idea that you're like, well, I'm going to stand on principle and I'm a third party. I'm a new I'm a breath of fresh air. And it's like, but I tried to get a job with Donald Trump and said I would drop out if he gave me a job. He said no. Then I went to Kamala Harris. I said, I'll drop out if you give me a job. And she said no. So here I am. I'm going to beat both of them now. It's like it's one. It's one thing to like if you're like, you know.

In the end, I'm closer to Trump than I am to Harris or closer to Harris than Trump, and I'm going to step aside for one of them. But to be willing to go with the highest bidder is just the highest form of corruption. And so if this story gets out and gets traction, and I imagine knowing the people we do who have been working at the DNC on this third-party stuff –

it is damaging with a lot of the voters that he had a shot with, which is not a ton of voters. And we can get to that in a sec, but it is enough, right? We know what the margins are in these battleground States. And if he's getting a couple of points that got to come from somewhere and the person they come more from is probably going to lose the state.

Yeah, well, this was supposed to be, you know, the year of third party candidates. And, you know, when Biden was in the race, it did seem like RFK Jr., Jill Stein, others were getting, you know, a bigger share of the vote than polls showed in 2020, at least. Was that overblown or did Biden dropping out just change everything?

It was changing before Biden dropped out. If you were watching the tracking and the polling averages, RFK Jr. was at a high about six to eight months ago and had been coming down on sort of – it's still at a particularly – at a high number for a third-party candidate. Normally, his candidates are getting 1% to 2%, and he was getting 5% to 7% and sometimes more. But what's changed is third-party candidates do well when people are angry with both candidates.

And we spent all this time, we spent a year talking about the double haters, people who didn't like Biden or Trump. The double haters are gone. The number has been cut by more than half since Biden dropped out. That's because Kamala Harris's approval ratings are much higher than Biden's, but also Trump's have gone up. And that's kind of why the third party share goes down over time, because people sort of realign with their candidates, right? You had all these Trump voters who

Maybe they weren't sure they were for Trump or they were voting for Trump, but they didn't really like him. But now the more the race gets polarized, the more they like their candidate. So there's just the lane in which a third party candidate can get a significant vote share has gone down now.

That does not mean this is still modeling like an incredibly close race. So if Jill Stein gets a point or two, Cornel West gets a point and RFK Jr. gets two points, that four points would be decisive, incredibly decisive. So it still matters a lot. Well, we were just talking about Trump at, you know, if Trump's at 48 in some of these states, if he could, you know, 47 or 48 and then three or four points, yeah, then that becomes a tight race. He can win at 48 because RFK Jr. is going to be on the ballot in almost all the battleground states.

Yeah. And Joe Stein is already on the ballot in a lot of these states. Yep. And then you got the libertarian candidate too. Yeah. I don't remember his name, but he's out there. Something Oliver, Gary Oliver. Does that sound right? No, it's not Gary, but Oliver's right. All right. Let's just work this out here. All right. Lastly, something fun before we go. The Harris campaign just posted an incredibly charming YouTube video of Harris and Tim Walz getting to know each other.

Here's a sampling. I called you, Tim. I was hoping maybe we wouldn't have to. I called you, Tim. Yes. You didn't answer, Tim. I know. I know. What happened? The most important call of my life. It popped up and we didn't recognize the caller ID. It went to voicemail. Hi, this is Tim. I'm not able to answer. There you go. It's not possible. Thank you.

Hey Tim, it's Kamala. I really want to talk to you. Talk about how Prince was with that guitar, man. I almost know by heart every one of those songs. I feel like a trip to Paisley Park is going to happen here at the Stab. It's on my bucket list, I'll tell you that. I have white guy tacos and like black. What does that mean, like mayonnaise and tuna? What are you doing? Pretty much ground beef and cheese. That's okay. Do you put any flavor in it? No. Here's the deal. Okay.

I just love how she was so disappointed. Oh, you didn't put any flavor. Um,

Where do you rank a video like this on the impact scale compared to like a rally or an ad? It seems like the kind of thing that a lot of people, maybe people who aren't political junkies like us would share because it's just like two normal people having a good time laughing with each other. It's kind of nice. It's great. It's so much more valuable than a single ad or even a rally because it's going to, especially like in a world of TikTok, it's just going to be there for a long time. It's going to circulate. People are going to see it. They seem like normal humans. Kamala Harris is, we know Tim Wallace is great in this scenario. She's been posting videos

We've all seen them now. Amazing videos for years now. I mean, the video of Tim Walz's daughter telling him that turkey is meat is still one of the greatest videos of all time. Yeah, it's great. Or the one where they're doing the hands-free at PSA ad, which is also superb. Like, he is very good at this. Kamala Harris is great at this stuff. She was, I mean, do you remember the video that she did cooking with Indian food with Mindy Kaling? Yes. It's like superb, right? Superb. And we haven't seen a lot. The Trump later tweeted. Yeah.

thinking there was damage to prove that she's not black. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that. And so this is like, this is like shows him as people. Like we just listened to Trump spent, try to treat her as this radical communist who's stupid and mean and all of this. And here she is just being a normal human being, have a normal conversation with a normal, normal human being. It's, it really is gold. Like this is the people want, this is relatable. This stuff defangs the caricature when they see it. And I love it. Speaking of relatable, um,

What do you think was going on with Tim Walz missing the call? He's getting a call, the most important call of his life. Would you serve as my vice president? And because it's a blocked number, he just goes right to voicemail.

It's inexcusable, frankly. Inexcusable. And I say that I am someone who never answers the phone. I don't talk on the phone. You call me on the phone. I don't answer. When Emily calls me on the phone, I think it's an emergency. My parents do. And certainly numbers I don't recognize or block numbers, I don't answer those.

So I don't I mean, I understand that. But if you know that, OK, she's probably calling the winner of the veep stakes today, then I turn on the ringer and I'd start looking at the phone and I just pick up any number. If you knew you were the finalist to win Powerball and you're going to get a call the next morning one way or the other to find out if you had won Powerball, you're answering the phone no matter what the numbers is. It could say spam risk on it and you would answer that phone.

What is the worst case scenario? He answers that it turns out to be a scam and he hangs up on the person. He just says bye and then waits for the next call. Like, absurd. Also, did he think that the call was going to come through and just say like, it's Kamala Harris? I mean, obviously he's talked to her. It's so funny. It's really funny. It's really funny. Like, I get... There is like a... I remember when we were in the White House, like you get those calls and it was like, it's the...

It's the president and it's like a blocked number or it's the two, whatever. And you're like, it is very scary when you're awaiting a call from an important person. But like, you just got to do it. You got to pick up. You know when it's really scary? When you're not awaiting a call from an important person. And that phone rings. No, that's, you're right. That is the scary part. That's when you know something's going, you're in trouble and your night is over, whatever you were doing. Yeah, exactly. Like when I was at Lollapalooza in 2007 during the campaign and I thought that the speech was locked.

that our energy speech was locked because Barack Obama said, we're all done. I have no more edits.

And then right in the middle of the concert on my phone. There you guys. I want to rewrite the speech. Well, look, in defense of you, people have been talking about that speech for the 15 years since. Everyone remembers the energy speech. I don't remember anything about it. Tacos. Look, I'm a white guy. I put seasoning on my tacos. Do you like spice? White guy tacos? Come on, Tim.

I think there's a couple ways to look at this. One, the no seasoning thing, also inexcusable, right? They give you a packet of the taco kit, Tim. Put it in there. That's what makes tacos so good. Yes, that's called taco seasoning. Otherwise, you're just eating fucking hamburger. You're eating a hamburger without the helper in a tortilla chip. But I will say in Tim's defense, I have to say this carefully as someone who has now lived in California for nine years and is married to someone from the Bay Area.

who takes her Mexican food incredibly seriously. I have no objection to a crispy shell taco. No. I don't. Is that a... Oh, because that's... That is one of the key ingredients of a white guy taco or a white person taco is crispy shell taco like comes in the taco kit as opposed to a corn tortilla. I also like a crispy shell taco. Yeah. I mean, look, it's not a traditional taco. I have to say that if I want to be able to return to my home later tonight, but...

But I will not. If you want to give me a crispy shell taco with some ground beef with seasoning Tim Walls, some lettuce and some cheese, I'll eat that. That's delicious. But also medium to hot salsa, jalapenos. Oh, spice for sure. For sure. It is funny. And apparently Kamala Harris really likes spicy food and she should really go on Hot Ones. I mean, I think that's... I have such... I mean, the current podcast aside, I have such a list of great podcasts for Kamala Harris to do that I just want to see. And Hot Ones is one of them.

I think she'll be able to hang on that for sure. Absolutely. There is a funny part in that video that is not in our super cut where he says that the black pepper is the pinnacle of spice in Minnesota, which is very funny. That is very funny. That is very funny. All right. Well, that's our show for today. We will be back on Monday.

The two of us and Love It and Tommy in Chicago for the very first DNC Reaction Show. We'll be doing that Monday night, so that episode will be out on Tuesday. Get excited. Chicago, here we come. Have a good weekend, everyone. We're going to go to one of America's great cities and record podcasts. Can't wait. Bye. Bye, everyone.

If you want to get ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and more, consider joining our Friends of the Pod subscription community at cricket.com slash friends. And if you're already doom-scrolling, don't forget to follow us at Pod Save America on Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube for access to full episodes, bonus content, and more. Plus, if you're as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review to help boost this episode or spice up the group chat by sharing it with friends, family, or randos you want in on this conversation.

Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our producer is David Toledo. Our associate producers are Saul Rubin and Farrah Safari. Reid Cherlin is our executive editor, and Adrian Hill is our executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer, with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Writing support by Hallie Kiefer. Madeline Herringer is our head of news and programming. Matt DeGroat is our head of production. Andy Taft is our executive assistant.

Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Phoebe Bradford, Joseph Dutra, Ben Hefcote, Mia Kelman, Molly Lobel, Kiril Pellaviv, and David Toles.

Building a business may feel like a big jump, but OnDeck small business loans can help keep you afloat. With lines of credit up to $100,000 and term loans up to $250,000, OnDeck lets you choose the loan that's right for your business. As a top-rated online small business lender, OnDeck's team of loan advisors can help you find the right business loan to fit your needs. Visit OnDeck.com for more information.

Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

They're back. Verizon Small Business Days are here. October 14th to the 20th. Meet with our experts. Get one-on-one advice, a free tech check, and special offers. Like a free 5G phone when you switch. Don't miss out. Call 1-800-483-4428. Or go to verizon.com slash smallbusiness. Offer available for select 5G phones. New device payment purchase agreement and select biz unlimited plan required. Credit applied over agreement term up to 36 months. Terms apply. Limited time offer.