EP. 140: PENNSYLVANIA - The Pizza Delivery Bombing & The Death Of Brian Wells
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On August 28th, 2003...

A middle-aged man walked into a PNC bank in the town of Erie, Pennsylvania, and immediately, everyone knew something was off. As he approached the front desk and handed the teller a piece of paper, they quickly learned that this was a robbery. Now, typically, criminals use guns to rob banks, but the main weapon in this story was far more dangerous.

The man standing in front of them had a metal collar around his neck and under his white t-shirt was a bomb specifically created to maximize casualties. The bank teller quickly read over the long and detailed note, which in part read, quote, do not cause panic or many people will be killed. Sounding any alarm will interrupt this action and guaranteed injuries and death.

The note also demanded $250,000. However, the bank couldn't access that kind of money at the time. So instead, the teller gathered all of the money in the registers, which only equaled around $8,000. She placed it in a bag, handed it over to the man, and from there, he quickly left the bank.

Soon enough, the police in Erie got word that a man with a bomb had just robbed the PNC bank, and it wouldn't take them long to find their suspect. About a mile away from the bank, the police found the man in a parking lot. They quickly placed him in handcuffs and then backed away from him as they waited for the bomb squad to arrive.

The suspect, whose name was Brian Wells, began yelling out to the officers that he was just a pizza delivery man. And on one of his deliveries, someone had locked the bomb around his neck and ordered him to rob the bank. "Why isn't anyone trying to get this thing off me?" he yelled out. As each minute passed, Brian was growing more and more panic. "It's going to go off," he yells.

And then the bomb started beeping. Brian began breathing heavily and he's getting agitated.

Maybe you can get the key so I can get out of this thing. I don't know if I have enough time now. I'm not lying. He pleads with the officers to help him, with a look of terror on his face. But the bomb squad still hadn't arrived. And then at 3.18 p.m., Ryan's eyes widened, and in an instant, the bombs dropped around his chest detonated. Bang!

46-year-old Brian Wells was dead, and the investigation into his murder would lead the FBI straight to a group of criminals living right in the heart of Erie, Pennsylvania. So this is the story of the pizza delivery bombing. I'm Courtney Brown. And I'm Colin Brown. And you're listening to Murder in America. ♪♪

Brian Wells was born on November 15th, 1956, in the quiet town of Warren, Pennsylvania. His parents, Rose and Harold Wells, would have six children altogether, and Brian was the middle child, so they had a pretty big family. During his junior high years, Brian made straight A's, but once he got to high school, education was just not his main priority.

especially once his father was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. After his dad's diagnosis, Brian's grades began to suffer, and by the time he was 16, he decided to drop out during his sophomore year. But he did go on to get his GED, and immediately started working to gain some independence. And it was here when Brian started discovering his passions in life.

He loved mechanics and was always collecting different parts so he could build lawnmowers and cars. And one thing to know about Brian Wells was that he was a simple man. He didn't need a lot of money or nice things to be happy. He enjoyed a simple and modest lifestyle. In 2003, he was 46 years old. He had a buzz cut, wore oversized thick-rimmed glasses, and was working as a pizza delivery driver.

He had worked in the pizza delivery business for nearly 30 years, and he was happy with his job. He also loved to watch movies, play guitar, do jigsaw puzzles, and according to the New York Times, he was very disinterested in modern technology. He apparently never owned a computer and didn't really know how to navigate the internet.

and one thing brian looked forward to every year was the town's annual scavenger hunt it was called the great key hunt and every year the local newspapers would leave clues in the paper on where they could find certain keys hidden around the city at the end of it the winner would eventually find a box in town with twenty five hundred dollars inside one year brian got really close to winning but someone beat him to it right in the nick of time

Regardless, he enjoyed the friendly competition and he looked forward to it every year. Nearly enough though, a scavenger hunt would eventually lead to Brian's death.

Brian Wells was also a man who kept to himself and enjoyed his alone time. He never got married or had children. And when he wasn't working, he mostly liked to stay at home and play with his three cats. But even though he was quiet and reserved, the people that knew him said he was a very kind person. Now, like everyone, Brian had his own demons.

He struggled with alcohol and drug use in his past, and he had even spent some time in jail. At 33 years old, shortly after his father passed away, Brian would get into an altercation with a neighbor, where he apparently threatened to shoot them. He would later get arrested for this, and he pleaded guilty.

But after that, he seemed to stay out of trouble. It was also known that Brian would occasionally hire sex workers when he needed a little human connection. But according to the people that knew him, he was harmless. His landlady was named Linda, and she said he was the ideal tenant.

He always paid his rent on time, he was super respectful, and any time Linda needed help around her house, Brian was always willing to lend a helping hand. He would also chat with Linda in the mornings before he left to go to work. She would later tell the Netflix documentary Evil Genius, quote, "'He seemed pretty even-tempered. "'If he did get excited, he danced a little bit. "'It was just the way he was, you know?'

Sometimes he would take his mother to the movies, and if there were a free concert in town, he'd take his mother and her friend. Now some people would describe Brian's life as mundane, but he didn't mind it. He liked his simple, routined life. Every morning, Brian would wake up, drive to the local McDonald's to get some breakfast, and then he would come back home and read the newspaper until it was time to leave for work.

For the past 10 years, Brian had worked the 11 a.m. to 2 p.m. shift at a local pizza shop called Mama Mia's Pizza. And his boss, Tony DeTomo, said that he was the most reliable employee he ever had. In fact, the only time Brian called in late for work was when one of his cats died. But other than that, he was always on time and he never missed his shifts.

But that couldn't be said about the other employees at Mama Mia's Pizza. One of Brian's friends and coworkers was named Robert Panetti, and he was very unreliable. Unlike Brian, Robert was constantly calling out sick and missing his shifts. His excuses were anything from minor car troubles, illness, or even just forgetting that he was supposed to be working that day. Now, Robert also struggled with drugs and alcohol, was in a lot of debt, and according to their boss, Tony, he just wasn't a great employee.

Tony also said that Robert was known to come into work with glassy eyes, and sometimes he would just walk away in the middle of conversations. Now, Robert will come back into the story later on, but first, let's talk about August 28th, 2003.

It started out like any other day. Brian woke up that morning, got his breakfast, read the newspaper, and then left his house to go to work. Mama Mia's Pizza was a one-story red brick building located in an unassuming shopping plaza in town. And at 11 a.m. sharp, Brian walked through the doors to start his three-hour shift wearing white sneakers, blue jeans, and a gray t-shirt.

Soon enough, the air smelled of fresh pizza. The phone lines started buzzing with orders and the employees hustled through the cramped space, rhythmically going about their day like they always did. With over 30 years of experience, Brian Wells moved through a shift with ease. It was a fast paced job, so the days usually went by pretty quickly. And at 1:15 PM, the restaurant's phone rang.

The owner, Tony, answered it. But for whatever reason, it was difficult for Tony to understand the caller, so he handed the phone over to Brian. From here, Brian used his cheek to press the phone into his shoulder as he quickly scribbled down the caller's order, two small pepperoni and sausage pizzas, and the location of the delivery was 8631 Peach Street. After the pizzas were made,

Brian loaded them up into his green Geo Metro hatchback. It was now around 1:30 p.m., meaning this would be his very last delivery of the day. After leaving Mama Mia's, Brian would turn onto Peach Street. The location of the delivery was about three miles away, and soon enough he found himself turning left on a quiet dirt road surrounded by trees.

There wasn't much around other than the transmission tower. In fact, that is where the customer wanted the pizza delivered, this old tower. So Brian pulls his car over and steps out with the two small pizzas in hand. However, he would quickly learn that this was not your average pizza delivery. In fact, this would be the last delivery Brian would ever make.

Shortly after he got out of his vehicle, Brian was approached by five people, four men and a woman, and one of them came up and tried to put something around his neck.

Brian immediately felt a primal fear run through his body, so he started running. However, he wouldn't get very far. As Brian ran away, he heard a gunshot go off behind him. He was then tackled to the ground, and suddenly, he heard a click. One of the men had attached a metal collar around his neck, and hanging beneath it,

now strapped to his chest, was what looked like a bomb. It was bulky with all these colored wires attached. One of the attackers then knelt down by Brian's side and said, "You're going to drive to the PNC bank and hand them this note. In it, it demands $250,000." The man then handed Brian a homemade shotgun that looked like a walking cane.

They had attached a wooden curve to the handle of it and they told Brian, "If anyone gives you any trouble at the bank, use it." From here, the attackers handed Brian a long list of instructions. You see, this wasn't just a bank robbery. After Brian got the $250,000 from the PNC bank,

The group was going to make him go on a scavenger hunt of sorts. The scavenger hunt would lead him to different locations around Erie, and at each location he would find a key. At the end of it all, if Brian was successful, the keys would then be used to unlock the collar around his neck. But on the other hand, if Brian didn't finish in time, the bomb around his chest would detonate and he would die.

As Brian is reading these instructions, he is understandably terrified and he pleads with the group to just let him go. But they've already made up their minds. In fact, they had spent a lot of time preparing for this day, so there was no going back now. But before leaving, the group reminds Brian just how important it is to follow their rules.

From here, one of the men walked over to Brian and used a key to start a timer on the bomb. They then put a white guest shirt over the top of it and ordered Brian to get going. As he walked to his car,

He could hear the soft, rhythmic tick of the bomb against his chest, and he knew that this wasn't a hoax. Attached to his body was a real bomb, and from there, he was on a mission to save his life.

Brian quickly got into his car and read over his instructions. Like we mentioned earlier, he was actually pretty good at scavenger hunts, but this one was a bit different. It was literally life or death. So it was crucial that he followed their instructions. On the paper it read, Rules. Number one, you must follow a course of instructions to find keys and combination codes to disarm bomb. Do not insert keys into keyholes until instructed. Some keyholes are booby-trapped to prevent tampering. Number two, you must follow a course of instructions to find keys and combination codes to disarm bomb.

2. Drive at 60 mph throughout course. 3. Use only 2 or 3 minutes at each stop. A sentry will be watching at each stop to ensure you are not being followed. 4. Bomb has tripwires. Forcing or tampering will detonate. 5. All weapons, papers, containers, tapes, etc. must be returned to us. Each item you find after dropping money has a key and/or combination word. You will need to decipher the combination. This will disarm tripwires before you unlock.

From here, Brian started driving to the PNC bank.

I'm sure there were a million thoughts running through his head, but he had to stay focused. At 2:27 PM, Brian arrives at the bank with the homemade shotgun in hand. He calmly walks through the front doors and up to the teller's desk, where he swiftly hands her the pieces of paper. Now, normally when people rob banks by handing over notes, the instructions are very clear.

It'll say things like, put X amount of money into the bag, no dye packs, no calling the police. But the note Brian hands over is extremely detailed. In fact, it is four pages long. The teller quickly and anxiously reads over the detailed note, which in part read, quote,

Now, the employee tries to tell Brian that her manager is out on her lunch break.

and they wouldn't be back for another 30 minutes. She also says that without the manager there, it would be impossible to access the vault. But Brian doesn't have 30 minutes to spare, so he takes what he can get. From there, the teller begins to fill the bag with all of the cash in the registers, which is only a little over $8,000.

And interestingly enough, as she fills the bag with cash, Brian grabs a lollipop out of the container on the desk. Many people have questioned this action over the years. Was Brian trying to seem normal? Was his mouth dry from the anxiety of the situation?

We don't know, but after handing him the bag of cash, the teller secretly motions to a customer to call 911. And as they did, Brian calmly walks out of the bank with the cash in hand and lollipop in mouth.

Once back in the car, Brian grabs the instructions to figure out his next move, and it read, Exit the bank with the money and go to the McDonald's restaurant. Get out of the car and go to the small sign reading, Drive-thru open 24 hours. In the flowerbed by the sign, there is a rock with a note taped to the bottom. It has your next instructions.

Brian then places the instructions in the passenger seat and pulls out of the PNC bank. However, little does he know, the Pennsylvania State Police are not far behind. Once he pulls into the McDonald's, Brian quickly gets out of his car and finds the note, exactly where they said it would be. He reads the note and then gets back into his car, and the next set of instructions read...

Leave McDonald's from the rear and drive behind and around the side of Eyeglass World. Stop at Peach Street. Important, you must get out and tie the orange tape around the fire hydrant at Peach Street to signal you have money in left bank. So from here, Brian follows the instructions and drives to Eyeglass World. But unfortunately for him, shortly after he gets out of his vehicle, officers are already in the parking lot with their guns drawn. Upon seeing them, Brian is clearly nervous, and he tries explaining that he's been set up.

the officers quickly place him in handcuffs and order him down onto the concrete. Again, Brian tries explaining that he was attacked. He told him that he's just a pizza delivery driver, and while he was making a delivery near the transmission tower, a group of black men put this bomb around him and forced him to rob the bank, which is what his attackers told him to say, if law enforcement got involved. Keep in mind, Brian knows that his attackers are watching his every move, so he continues to follow their rules.

Now, this wasn't the first time the town of Erie had dealt with a bomb threat, but usually they ended up being a hoax. However, just to make sure, one of the officers approached Brian and began to cut his shirt. And there, underneath the large metal collar with a white plastic digital clock mounted on it, there was also green, red, and yellow wiring.

And just by one glance, the officer can tell that this is real. Not only was there a faint ticking sound, but there were also four different locks on it. And on the box, there was a warning that read, quote, do not open, do not move. Riveted construction produces deadly shrapnel.

Kill zone equals 100 yards. Hidden and exposed booby traps. End quote. After seeing this, the officer quickly backs away and takes cover. And over the next few minutes, a crowd starts to gather. All Brian can do is sit there and yell out to law enforcement officers that he's got to get this collar off. He pleads with them, please, I don't have much time.

"If you go in my car, you'll find the instructions on where the keys are. Could you at least get the keys for me so I can get this unlocked?" The police had now been in the parking lot for around 15 minutes, and although the bomb squad was en route, this incident caused a lot of traffic, and they were still 6 miles away. As each minute passed, it was clear that Brian was growing more and more agitated.

He knew he was running out of time. Now at this point, a local news crew had showed up to the scene and began filming. It's not every day that you have a man with a bomb come and rob your local bank. And as they filmed, they captured some of Brian's pleas to law enforcement. Yeah, I'm starting to time a person. I'm going to go to the truck. This is... What are you guys doing? You can get those expenses. They don't get...

Grian was still sitting cross-legged on the parking lot, and you could see that he was growing more and more panicked. He begged the officers to remove the bomb. He even asked them to call his boss Tony so he could verify that he was on a delivery shortly before this all happened. The officers on scene don't know what to think. Was he a victim in this? Or was he lying?

They did find the scavenger hunt instructions in his car, so it was beginning to look like Brian truly was a victim in this story. However, there was nothing they could do for him at this moment. They didn't have any training on bombs, so all they could do was wait. As Brian sat on the ground, he was scared.

At one point, he even asked the officers for a cigarette to help calm him down, but he wouldn't get one. Next, he asked for a priest, but he wouldn't get one of those either. Then, in a last-ditch effort,

Brian yells out to the officers, quote, he pulled out a key and started a timer. I heard the thing ticking when he did it. It's going to go off. I'm not lying. Did you call my boss? But after Brian says this, the bomb around his neck starts to beep. And in that moment, Brian knew that it was over for him. At 3.18 p.m., his eyes widened. And in an instant...

the bomb strapped around his chest detonated. When the smoke cleared and the shrapnel came to a rolling stop, the officers cautiously peeked out from their cover to see 46-year-old Brian Wells lying on the pavement. After the bomb went off, he took a couple more breaths and then died right there with a fist-sized hole in his chest.

Soon enough, Brian's lifeless body was surrounded by first responders. And over the next few hours, officers racked their minds trying to figure out exactly what happened that day in Erie, Pennsylvania.

The bomb squad would finally make it to the scene, three minutes after the bomb went off. And by then, it seemed as if the entire town was tuning in on what was happening. A local news crew had actually been live-streaming the entire thing. But during the time the bomb detonated, they'd been having some technical difficulties. So, Brian's death was not on air. But on scene, there were multiple agencies helping with the investigation.

Because this was a homicide, the state police were involved. The FBI was there because of the bank robbery, and the ATF assisted because of the bomb. And there was a ton of evidence at the scene, including the bomb itself, the shrapnel from the blast, a toy cell phone, the timer. It was a lot.

But the first thing the ATF needed to do was make sure there weren't any other explosives. Brian's body, along with what was left of the bomb, was carefully taken to a location so that the bomb could be removed for an autopsy. The only problem was that the metal collar was still wrapped around his neck, and they had no idea how to remove it. Even further, there was this blue liquid attached to the metal collar, and they weren't exactly sure what it did.

So they were faced with a big problem. For one, they were worried that if they tried to remove the collar, it would explode.

putting people in harm's way. And two, if it did explode, they would damage the biggest piece of evidence that they had. You see, with bombs, it's very important to analyze its parts and figure out how it was made. And in doing so, you can begin to narrow down who built the bomb. So wanting to preserve the evidence they had, they made the horrifying decision to cut off Brian's head.

In their minds, that was the only way to safely remove the collar from his neck. So once Brian's head was removed and the bomb was safely taken away, it was now time for his autopsy. They would later find that the bomb had completely shattered through Brian's ribs and severed his heart. There was also a huge hole in Brian's thigh from where the shrapnel ripped through his tissue.

They learned that Brian was not under the influence of any drugs or alcohol. And they didn't find any defensive wounds, which did raise some questions as to whether or not he was in on the whole plan. But as for the bomb itself, it was analyzed by very experienced members of the ATF.

And sadly, they learned that the blue liquid around the metal collar was actually just a decoy. They could have just removed it and nothing would have happened. But clearly, they didn't know that at the time. They were just taking precautions, but it is sad that Brian's head was cut off when it didn't need to be.

Now, after analyzing the bomb, the ATF quickly discovered that whoever built it was no amateur. In fact, the bomb that was used here was one of the most complex pipe bombs they had ever seen. In the book Pizza Bomber, the bomb is described as "consisting of two parts. It had a four-key locking mechanism and one dial combination locking mechanism, two timers, parallel circuits, and a green and beige circuit board."

The collar, which resembled the design of a large handcuff, was spring-loaded with fixed and hinged semicircular arms. Three copper wires were twisted around a thin tube of blue liquid, which went around the outside of the collar. The metal box hanging off the collar measured approximately 6 inches by 10.5 inches and contained two 6-inch pipe bombs loaded with enough double-based smokeless powder to fill 273 shotgun shells.

The same type of powder was found inside the 12-gauge shotgun shell in the cane Brian Wells was carrying, shells that were sold, exclusively, at Walmart. The plastic pipes sat next to each other inside the box vertically, and was sealed to be airtight by a series of plates, bolts, and rods so it would explode when pressure was applied. The wires running through the bomb weren't connected to anything, they were just a decoy, as was the liquid in the tube around the outside of the collar, totally harmless, but designed to confuse anyone who tried to disarm the bomb.

The timers controlled one circuit and provided 55 minutes of time each, 110 minutes in total. However, because one timer wasn't activated, this reduced the time available to Brian to just 55 minutes.

There was also this mesh that was connected to the battery pack found in the bomb and it was manipulated in a way to where if the mesh touched the metal box, the bomb would have exploded. The ATF members would later say that it was probably a good thing the bomb squad didn't get there in time that day. If they would have, there likely would have been many more casualties as the bomb was very sensitive and dangerous.

So while the ATF were trying to track down members in their community that could have built this bomb, the FBI started looking at the evidence they had, which had to do with the scavenger hunt. And from the beginning, this hunt was very perplexing to the investigators. What was the purpose of it?

Why send Brian around on one of the busiest streets in Erie? Why scatter clues at restaurants, stores, and busy intersections where it would be easy for law enforcement to spot him?

After reading the nine-page instructions found in Brian's car, the FBI decided to do the scavenger hunt themselves. Knowing that Brian only had 55 minutes to complete the hunt, they started a timer. Starting at the transmission tower where Brian said he was attacked, they made their way to the bank. Then they went to the McDonald's, then Eyeglass World.

And then the third location, the one that Brian never got to. According to the instructions, after leaving Eyeglass World, Brian was supposed to "go south on Peach Street, take Route 90 west for two miles."

"At interchange 198, take 79 north for 2.25 miles. At exit 180, pull to the side of the off ramp and stop next to the yellow traffic light warning sign. Go directly across the grass. The container with the orange tape has your next instructions." So the FBI followed the map.

And there, off 180, they found a red plastic Folgers coffee can just 10 yards away from the traffic sign. And inside the canister was a one-page note written just like the others. And this note told Brian to drive two miles south and stop at a road sign for McKean Township. So the FBI drives there. And they did find a bottle tied to a branch with orange tape.

but there was no note, no keys, nothing. This should have been the location where Brian would have gotten the keys to free himself, but there was nothing there, meaning Brian likely wouldn't have been able to free himself from the bomb, even if he completed the scavenger hunt on time. It seems as though his attacker set him up to die that day,

Even further, when the FBI conducted the scavenger hunt themselves, they learned that it would have been impossible for Brian to complete it within 55 minutes, even if everything went according to plan. So as you can see, this is a very complex story and the FBI knew that they were dealing with a sick group of individuals.

A group that sent Brian Wells out on a mission that he would have never been able to complete.

By now, the pizza delivery bombing was all anyone could talk about, and it seems as though the town of Erie was pretty divided in the beginning on whether or not Brian was involved. Some people that saw him that day said he was far too calm to be an innocent victim, but then others that knew Brian said that there was absolutely no way he could have been a part of this. His aunt would later tell the media, Brian was definitely a victim. There is no way such a kind, gentle, thoughtful, and wonderful boy could do that. He had too much to live for, and his family was too meaningful to him.

Sadly, Brian's sister Jean said that she had actually been driving around Erie that day, running errands when she suddenly found herself in a lot of traffic from the police blocking off the roads. She had no idea that her brother was on the other side with a bomb attached to his chest, and she wouldn't find out until later that night. She would later say, My kids are sitting on the couch and then the story airs of this bank robbery and a man came into the bank with a bomb on him.

My brother's sitting there with this bomb on him. And I'm thinking, okay, the police have him. They will find out who did this to him. Then as it goes on, it was like it was Brian exploded. You know, the bomb went off. Brian is dead. And I'm like, I can't believe this. That's how I found out about it. Nobody called us earlier. I watched the news report at 10 o'clock. Saw him sitting there and then he blew up. And then I called all my brothers and sisters and told them what I think I saw. And they think I'm nuts because Brian is not a bank robber.

But since the FBI had no other persons of interest, they started their investigation by looking into Brian. They would later find that the only fingerprints on the typed scavenger hunt papers were his. In his shoe prints, entire impressions were the only ones found by the transmission tower.

So for now, they were focused on finding out everything they could about the 46-year-old pizza delivery man. On August 29th, 2003, authorities executed a search warrant at Brian's house, located on 2421 Loveland Avenue. They were hoping that if Brian was the mastermind behind all of this, they would find bomb paraphernalia, but there wasn't.

In fact, they didn't find much of anything in Brian's home. From what they could tell, he was a normal man with little material possessions, which was true. And since there wasn't one shred of evidence linking him to this crime, many people started to think that maybe he was an innocent victim, which is what his family had been saying all along. They were very unhappy with how the investigation was going.

and even more so that authorities had cut off Brian's head. His family would end up having a small intimate funeral for Brian, but they couldn't even have an open casket. Brian's sister would later tell the Netflix documentary "Evil Genius," quote, "I'm one of Brian Wells' three sisters. I first heard of the suffering and death of my brother on the news. Brian was handcuffed. The officers continued to point their guns at him.

even though he was fully cooperating in their custody. And why was there no ambulance present trying to help him when he lay dying upon the ground, grasping for life? The decision was made to cut off Brian's head to preserve the collar bomb. This beheading of Brian took from us the closure we sought by being able to view Brian at his funeral.

Tears streamed down mom's face as she learned the news that Brian's body was not fit for an open casket viewing. The removed head could not be supported in position. More respect was shown for the destructive device than for Brian's body. As a kind-hearted listener, Brian touched our lives in so many beautiful ways.

by his humble and quiet presence, and his devoted and selfless care and service for our family. We believe that what happened to Brian was monstrous. The absence of clarity and truth in the investigation has been a horrendous ordeal for our entire family." End quote.

And Brian's family wasn't alone. Almost everyone that knew him said that there was no way he could have been involved in this. Danelle Stone, Brian's next-door neighbor, said, Stone's 15-year-old son Joshua chimed in and agreed. He was too simple.

Jim Fisher, a retired FBI agent and criminologist, also studied the case, and he believed the investigation was sloppy, stating: "So you have 50 people running around randomly conducting leads with very little coordination. No one really seemed to be in charge. This wasn't a bank robbery. It was a murder."

Now, at this point in the investigation, the FBI was still trying to gather all they could about 46-year-old Brian Wells. During the search of his home, they located his address book and found the information of the sex workers Brian was known to hire from time to time. Their names were Angie and Jessica. Both of the girls denied any involvement, but because one of them had a black boyfriend and Brian said that his attackers were black, police raided their home but found nothing. Next...

The FBI would interview Brian's boss, Tony, and he told them that Brian was a great and reliable employee. He said that in the 10 years Brian had worked there, he had never even called out of work. Now, if you remember from earlier in the story, we mentioned Brian's coworker, Robert Panetti.

The one who always missed work. Well, after interviewing Tony that day, the FBI said that they were going to come back the following day to interview Robert. But that day would never come. You see, before the FBI could conduct their interview with him, Robert would be found dead at his mother's house just two days after the bombing.

The coroner determined that he had died from an accidental drug overdose. But those that knew Robert would later say that Brian's death had frightened him. He was paranoid and scared to go to work, which is understandable considering Brian died while delivering pizzas. But Robert's autopsy would raise some red flags. At the time of his death, he was taking anti-anxiety medication, which did show up in his system.

But another thing that showed up was methadone, which is a medication that is used to help people stop using heroin or opiates. But interestingly enough, the people close to Robert said that he didn't use either and no one knew he was using methadone. So the FBI was definitely suspicious. What are the odds that Brian's coworker would die of a methadone overdose two days after the bombing?

As the weeks passed, investigators were still working hard to try and figure out what had happened, but they weren't getting very far. They were able to trace the phone call that the attackers used to place the pizza delivery order, and it led them to a phone booth by a gas station on Peach Street. And they ended up taking the entire phone in as evidence, but that didn't lead anywhere either. So,

So from here, investigators continued combing through tips that the public sent in. By now, it seemed like the entire city was calling in to report suspicious activity around Erie, but most of the tips ran dry. And before they knew it, a month had passed and investigators still didn't have any answers. Soon enough though, a strange 911 call would blow the case wide open. On September 20th, 2003, a 911 call came into the Erie police station.

The man on the phone introduced himself as Bill Rothstein, and he had a confession to make. First, he gives the operator his address, 8645 Peach Street. Bill then says, quote, "In the garage, there's a frozen body. It's in the freezer."

Now Bill says that he didn't kill the man in the freezer, he was just storing the body on his property. But he does know the person that did kill him. And when detectives hear this, they are shocked. At the time, the town of Erie rarely ever had any murders.

But in 2003, within one month, they had Brian Wells' murderer. And now there's a man's body in a freezer. So after this 911 call, investigators immediately make their way over to Bill's house. And interestingly enough, his home happens to be directly next to the transmission tower where Brian Wells was attacked. As detectives are driving up, alarm bells start ringing.

But first, they have to deal with the situation at hand. Upon pulling up to the home, authorities see Bill walking in their direction, and he quickly leads them to the freezer in his garage. The officers take a deep breath and then lift open the lid. And there, just like Bill said, was the frozen body of a man.

Bill Rothstein was born on January 17th, 1944, and he had lived in Erie, Pennsylvania all of his life. Bill came from a very wealthy family who founded the soft drink Rolla Cola. The company had a bottling plant in East Erie that had been in operation for decades, and it did very well. Bill grew up privileged, and he had the potential to do great things with his life. He already had a financial advantage, but on top of that, he was extremely smart. Growing up, however, Bill was sort of an outcast.

He was bullied in school. Kids would reportedly kick him in the shins and call him a dirty Jew. But everyone that knew him said that he had a big personality. Bill was very eccentric and marched to the beat of his own drum. Throughout his school years, it was clear that he was very smart, but he was one of those kids who never really applied themselves. After he graduated from high school, Bill went to the University of Toledo, where he studied electrical engineering from 1962 to 1967, but he never graduated and earned his degree.

Ray Borkowski, a lifelong best friend of Bill's, thought the world of him, stating, Borkowski also talked about Bill's intelligence and said that while he was extremely smart, and he dropped out of high school.

After he dropped out of high school, Bill came back to Erie and lived a pretty uneventful life from what everyone could tell. So what was this 59-year-old doing with a body in his freezer? Well, the police were about to figure that out. After locating the body on his property, Bill was brought back to the police station for questioning. And there, he would tell the officers about the woman who killed the man in his freezer. Mr. Rothstein, we're conducting an investigation along with the state police in regards to

conversation you had the night before Saturday night in which you initiated calls to the state police. Could you explain what that was all about? Okay, that was basically there was a person I had known since the late 60s, early 70s she had

Marjorie Deal Armstrong, the woman that Bill claimed murdered the man in his freezer.

Now Bill and Marjorie went way back. They dated on and off throughout the 60s and 70s and even got engaged at one point. But their relationship was rocky and they would eventually break up. However, despite their split, the two remained friends over the years. Close friends. So close, in fact...

Marjorie called Bill one day and told him that she needed help disposing of a body. So who is Marjorie Deal Armstrong? And what does all of this have to do with the pizza bombing?

Marjorie Deal Armstrong was born on February 26, 1949, in Erie, Pennsylvania, and she too came from a wealthy, hardworking family. She was an only child, and from a young age, her parents taught her the importance of working hard and managing your money, and she was a bit of an outcast as well. As a kid, she was described as tall, lanky, and awkward, and she had these eyes that people would make fun of.

But despite this, Marjorie thought very highly of herself. Her family was one of the more wealthy families in her neighborhood, and she was known to walk around like she was better than everyone else. In school, Marjorie never really had a lot of friends, but as she grew up, that seemed to change.

Marjorie had a confidence that people were just attracted to. Unlike Bill, she was eccentric and very smart, but she seemed to be an acquired taste. Susan Robinson, a close high school friend of Marjorie's, said, "...she was a striking beauty and a great musician, but she was intense. She was intense enough that I would have to go home and relax after we'd hung out together."

Throughout high school, Marjorie played many instruments for her school's orchestra, including the cello, organ, and piano. She was so talented, she also taught cello and piano lessons. And when she wasn't playing an instrument, she spent all of her time studying. Marjorie was extremely smart, and in 1967, she graduated 12th in her class at Erie Academy High School.

After graduating, she would attend Mercury Hearst College, where she got a degree in biology and sociology. Then Marjorie went on to get her master's degree in education from Gannon University in 1975. And it was during her time here when she crossed paths with Bill Rothstein. That day, Marjorie and her friends were ice skating.

When a tall, handsome young man walked past her, Marjorie thought he looked like a young Elvis, and she was immediately interested in him. The two struck up a conversation, and not long after, they were in love. Marjorie's friend Susan would later say that Bill was quote, "...always somewhere in the background."

I think she was just happy to find someone older who could relate to her on an intellectual level, which a lot of people couldn't." But after a few months of dating, some of Bill's friends were not big fans of Marjorie. Ray Borkowski would later say, "...I met Marjorie a couple of times, and I didn't like her."

I told Bill I didn't like her because she was nasty, she was controlling, she thought the world revolved around her, she could do anything she wanted and get away with it. Soon enough after the honeymoon phase passed, Bill and Marjorie were constantly fighting. They both had very big personalities that would often clash and they were always breaking up and then getting back together. At one point, the two were even engaged.

But by the late 70s, they decided to break up for good and just remain friends. And usually, this never works out. It's nearly impossible to stay friends with an ex, but surprisingly, it worked for them. Sure, their relationship was dysfunctional, but it seemed as though they both cared for one another and enjoyed the companionship.

But Bill would later claim that after they broke up, Marjorie's mental health took a turn for the worse.

After earning her master's degree, Marjorie moved into a house in Erie, and according to the people that knew her, she began hoarding. Her home quickly began to fill up with everything she could get her hands on, including stuffed animals, toys she found on the side of the road, trash, car seats, food, you name it. It was also reported that Marjorie would go weeks without showering. Her high school friend Susan recalled speaking with her on the phone around this time, and she said that over their three-hour conversation, she never got in one single word.

Marjorie literally talked for the entire three hours, going off on tangents that just didn't make any sense. Now, this is often a symptom of bipolar disorder, referred to as flight of ideas, where you have this rapid speech pattern. And Marjorie would be diagnosed as being bipolar later on in our story, but it was around this time where her loved ones knew she was struggling.

At the time, she was working in education as a guidance counselor after receiving her master's degree, but her mental health struggles made it to where it was very difficult for her to hold down a job. In 1980, she would actually form a non-profit organization for women, where she worked as a counselor, but again, her own mental health struggles always seemed to get in the way. It was also around this time when she was arrested for attempted theft.

She apparently told someone she was pregnant and needed money for an abortion, when she wasn't. And because of this, she was put on two years probation. Now, she ended up doing this rehab program so that the conviction wouldn't be on her record, but after this, it would be very hard for her to find work. So from here, Marjorie was given disability benefits and public housing. But despite all of this, Marjorie still had a way of captivating men.

At the time, she was dating a man named Bob Thomas. He was a Vietnam veteran who struggled with mental health issues, including PTSD and schizophrenia. But he and Marjorie's relationship was volatile, to say the least.

Bob Thomas was known to be physically abusive and Marjorie started talking with her friends about her dissatisfaction with the relationship. And then on July 30th, 1984, she had finally had enough

While Bob was resting on the living room couch watching TV, Marjorie walked into the room holding a short barrel revolver. She then stood in front of her boyfriend and emptied six rounds into his body, killing him. After the murder, Marjorie showed up at her friend Donna's house and offered her $25,000 to help dispose of his body. At first, Donna said she thought she was joking

She knew that Marjorie and Bob had been having some problems, but there was no way she actually killed him. However, Marjorie then pulled out a bag with $18,000 inside, and she told Donna, this is yours if you could help me. Donna knew right then that she was serious. Marjorie had actually murdered her boyfriend. Marjorie claimed that earlier that day, Bob had beaten her.

And she had finally had enough. So she walked into the living room and killed him. Now Donna told Marjorie that she would need some time to think about things. And then later that day, she called her mom to tell her what happened. And Donna's mom would ultimately be the one who called the police. Soon enough, the authorities were at Marjorie's house, placing her under arrest.

And while she was being taken to the police station, crime scene investigators entered her extremely cluttered house. According to them, there were boxes of stuff everywhere. Food was scattered about the kitchen and it was extremely hard for them to get around. In one of the bedrooms, there wasn't even any furniture left.

She had hoarded over the years, and there were rats crawling all over. Investigators also found four tons of stolen food. Because Marjorie didn't work, she would go to food banks around the area about three times a week and take as much food as she could get.

She would sometimes tell the food banks that she was delivering the items to people in her community, when really she was stealing the food and selling it to make a profit. It was her way of making money. When the investigators went to her home, they found about $10,000 worth of government food that she had stolen. And then in the living room, they found the body of Bob Thomas.

He was slumped over on the couch with his head lying against the armrest and six bullets were riddled through his body. Now back at the police station, Marjorie quickly claimed that the murder was in self-defense. She told the investigators that Bob had been beating her and she had no other choice but to kill him.

For this incident, Marjorie and her defense team initially wanted to plead not guilty by reason of insanity due to her mental illness. But as they prepared for trial, they quickly learned that Marjorie was not an easy client. She was incredibly opinionated and hard to work with. In her mind, all of her attorneys were idiots and she was never pleased with their work.

Now, she would later be evaluated by four different psychiatrists over the course of four years, and they all found that she was not competent to stand trial. So her case was in limbo for a while. But then finally, in January of 1988, nearly half a decade after the murder, she was finally found competent to stand trial, and she was facing first-degree murder charges. However, her defense team did a good job painting Bob Thomas out to be a violent abuser.

They claim Marjorie suffered from battered woman syndrome due to Bob's physical and emotional abuse, and after a 10-day trial, the jury would end up acquitting her of this murder. She was found guilty of a firearms charge, but Marjorie only had to serve 15 months of probation.

Shortly after she was released back into the real world, Marjorie would find another boyfriend named Richard Armstrong. And just like all of her other relationships, it was rocky. Richard also had schizophrenia and he had an obsession with cleanliness, which was obviously a problem considering Marjorie was not a very clean woman.

But the two fought constantly, and they even had some run-ins with law enforcement. In April of 1990, Marjorie told the police that Richard had threatened to kill her. She said that he also told her he would mutilate her body and burn her house down. Now Richard would get arrested for this, and served a one-month prison sentence because of it.

But surprisingly, shortly after he was released, he and Marjorie would get married, which was a huge shock to everyone considering how horrible their relationship was. The two would end up tying the knot on January 23rd, 1991. And just 20 months later, Richard would be dead.

On August 22nd, 1992, paramedics would arrive at Marjorie's home after she called 911, reporting that her husband was having a medical emergency. They would later find Richard on the floor after he reportedly fell and hit his head. After arriving at the hospital, Richard slipped into a coma and was declared brain dead. And two days later, he would pass away at the age of 44.

The coroner determined that he had died from a brain hemorrhage and his death was ruled an accident. Now, we aren't claiming that Marjorie was responsible, but it is interesting that two of her love interests had tragically died within an eight-year period. But with Richard's death, Marjorie genuinely seemed to be upset.

She played the part of a grieving wife and filed a wrongful death lawsuit, claiming they didn't properly diagnose Richard before he died. She would end up winning the case and receive $250,000. But as you can see, Marjorie had a very eventful life. Tragedy and chaos seemed to follow her everywhere. But the one constant in her life was her good friend, Bill Rothstein.

Marjorie and Bill definitely had a rocky past themselves, but they always remained in contact. The two loved talking about the complexities of life, and they stimulated each other on a level that other people couldn't. After seeing the crazy life Marjorie had, with all the chaos and death, Bill knew Marjorie was a handful, but he still loved her, and he couldn't seem to stay away. As they say, misery loves company.

and Bill definitely had some issues of his own. Like Marjorie, it was difficult for him to hold down a job. Over the years, he worked as a substitute teacher, an electrician, and a handyman. Bill also loved photography, radio, theater, and computer programming. He was very intelligent. And like Marjorie, he had a bit of an ego. He and Marjorie thought they were the smartest people in every room, which is something they actually bonded over.

People that knew Bill said that he wasn't very trustworthy, and he was a bit conniving. He would lie all the time, telling people these outlandish stories about himself that weren't even true. He was also known to secretly record people's phone calls, which is actually illegal in Pennsylvania. Bill Rothstein was not widely liked. Most people thought he was too cocky and awkward. He also liked to live under the radar. In the phone books, he went by a completely different name, so people just wouldn't be able to track him down.

By 2003, Bill and Marjorie were still good friends. He was actually the first person she would call when she was in trouble, which is interesting because Marjorie actually had a boyfriend at the time. In fact, she had been dating a man named Jim Roden for nearly 10 years, but still, Bill was her right-hand man.

Now, like every relationship before this, Marjorie's relationship with Jim Roden was horrible. She would constantly tell him that he would never amount to anything. There was domestic violence on both sides. And over the course of their relationship, they would break up, file restraining orders against each other, then get back together again as if nothing happened. And this cycle abuse would continue for years.

Now, since the death of her husband, Richard, Marjorie had developed more mental illnesses, including schizoaffective disorder, and it was clear that she wasn't doing well.

A few weeks before the bombing, Marjorie called her friend Bill after her house was broken into. She was hysterical and she claimed that the robbers stole several thousand dollars from her. So Bill, who was in love with Marjorie, did what he could to help. He even cut down some of the low hanging branches that hung around her house so that the neighbors could see if someone tried to break in again. But that was about all he could do.

Now after this incident, Bill said that Marjorie was paranoid. She even responded to an ad in the paper where someone was selling their 12 gauge shotgun.

When she showed up at the house to purchase the gun, the seller said that Marjorie was extremely unkempt and smelled of cat urine, but she paid in cash and left without incident. However, shortly after buying the gun, another person would die at her hands. That day, Marjorie would come home, load the 12-gauge shotgun, and then walk into the bedroom she shared with her boyfriend, Jim Roden.

And while Jim was sleeping on his stomach, she pointed the gun at him and shot him twice in the back. After murdering him, Marjorie didn't know what to do.

She would leave his body in their bed for days before she finally decided to pick up the phone and call the person she always called when she was in trouble, Bill Rothstein. She ended up leaving him a message and shortly after, she made her way over to his house with $75,000 in cash. Bill Rothstein would later say that Marjorie admitted to killing Jim.

And her reasoning was because she wanted to find the person who broke into their home.

And Jim apparently wasn't helping. She also believed that the people responsible were Jim's friends. So she killed him. And now she needed Bill's help getting rid of the body. She even offered him the $75,000. Here is Bill describing this encounter. I'm not exactly sure how this went. I think she probably asked for help. And I know she went into like histrionics, which is basically like, oh, she leaned back in the chair and said,

nobody can help me, you're the only one who can help me or something like that. And I didn't think obviously, I thought about it, but I didn't think obviously the way I should have. And I finally said that I would take, I think I said I would take a look or something like that. From here, Bill said that he and Marjorie went back to her place to start the cleanup. And boy, did they do a thorough job. Bill and Marjorie would remove Jim's body from the bed.

wrap it up in plastic, and then drive it over to his house to put him in the freezer.

Bill actually purchased this freezer specifically for this occasion. They planned on dismembering him later on, but first, they needed to clean up the crime scene. Once back at Marjorie's house, Bill would then take the murder weapon and completely destroy it. He cut the shotgun up with a saw and then meticulously melted down the pieces with a torch.

Afterwards, he discarded the rest of it around different locations in Erie. From there, Bill replaced Marjorie's floorboards, where the blood had seeped through the bed. He then cleaned the entire room with bleach and even repainted her walls.

But even after this meticulous cleaning, there were still pieces of furniture that couldn't be cleaned. So Bill gathered all of it, which was about 1,000 pounds of stuff, and he dumped it all at the Lakeview landfill in Erie.

This cleanup took several days and it was a lot of work, especially considering Bill was not in great health. But keep in mind, all of this happened a few weeks before the pizza bombing. Then a few weeks after the pizza bombing,

Bill said he started to have second thoughts. Marjorie had been pressuring him into getting rid of Jim's body. She even went out and bought plastic, a meat grinder, a bucket, and an ice pick. But Bill said he just couldn't bring himself to do it. He told the detectives, quote, I couldn't see myself cutting up a body like that.

and I don't think she would. She indicated she wanted me to, and I couldn't do it. I wanted to help her because I thought this would maybe straighten her out, because she was going to give up on guys, because she kept going out with the wrong guys, so I thought maybe I could help her out with this." But weeks later, the body was still in his freezer, and Bill didn't want to be a part of it anymore.

Now according to Bill, one of the main reasons he decided to call the police was because he knew Marjorie was a dangerous woman.

and he was scared of what she would do if he refused to dismember jim so he went to the authorities instead and came clean now as the detectives are listening to this they are shocked the town of erie barely ever had murderers and now their homicide department was working overtime but with bill's confession the authorities had everything they needed to make an arrest

Bill was arrested for his part in the crime and then on September 21st, 2003, authorities approached Marjorie Deal Armstrong, placed handcuffs on her wrist and charged her with the first degree murder of Jim Roden, the second man that had died at her hands.

Back at Bill's house, the police were combing through all of their evidence, including that body in the freezer, Jim's bicycle found in the garage, and the bloody mattress he was killed on. During the search, they also found a suicide note that Bill had written. It read, Police, my body is in the bedroom on the first floor, in the southeast corner of the house. One, this had nothing to do with the Wells case. Two, the body in the freezer in the garage is Jim Roden.

3. I did not kill him nor participate in his death. 4. My apologies to those who cared for or about me. I am sorry that I let them down. 5. I am sorry to leave you this mess.

Bill would later walk the authorities through he and Marjorie's houses, showing them everything they did that day to cover up the murder. Authorities also learned that while Bill and Marjorie were putting a body into his freezer, Bill actually had a roommate at the time named Floyd Stockton. Interestingly enough, police in Washington had been looking for Floyd after he was accused of raping a disabled woman, which is something he was known to do, because he had previously gone to prison for a different rape.

But while on the run, he came into contact with Bill and even moved in with him. So when the police learned this, they brought Floyd in for questioning, but he denied ever knowing about the body in the freezer. So then the detectives ask him about Brian Wells. If Floyd was living with Bill near the transmission tower, maybe he saw something that day. But Floyd was adamant that he knew nothing about the Brian Wells case.

In fact, he said on the day that it all went down, he and Bill were chilling at home when they suddenly saw cops driving around outside, so they decided to turn on the news to see what was going on. And that's how they learned about the bombing. The detectives were suspicious of Floyd and ended up giving him a polygraph, which he passed, so from there they were forced to move on. But after this ordeal, Floyd was extradited back to Washington, where he pled guilty to the rape charge he was facing.

Over the next few days, there was a ton of police presence at Bill's home as they continued to gather evidence. In his car, they ended up finding two walkie-talkies and a gun, something that will come into play later on. But as they worked the scene, they couldn't help but think about the Brian Wells case. What are the odds that Brian Wells would get attacked directly next to a home where a man's body was in a freezer?

Even further, in the days after the bombing, Bill Rothstein had happily spoken with the FBI and reporters about the Brian Wells case. It seemed strange that someone would be eager to speak about the bombing when there was a body in his garage just yards away. The police knew they were onto something here. Something in their gut told them that Bill and Marjorie were involved in the pizza bombing. They just needed proof.

So they decided to conduct another interview with Bill Rothstein.

But for this interview, as soon as the detective sat down, Bill told them, "Let me get this out of the way first. I'm the smartest guy in this room." Bill wanted to make it very clear that they were not going to outsmart him. And he was right. Throughout the interrogation, Bill was very vague with all of his answers. He knew exactly how to word things without incriminating himself. When asked about Brian Wells, Bill said he didn't know the guy.

So next, the detectives bring up Bill's suicide note, where he claimed he wasn't involved in the Brian Wells case. Then they ask him, why'd you mention his name in your suicide note? But that seemed to be a touchy subject for Bill. He didn't want to answer. The detectives also ask about Robert Panetti's death, who, if you remember, was Brian Wells' friend and co-worker who died of an overdose days after the bombing. But again, Bill denied knowing him.

Towards the end of their interview, the detectives were beginning to see that Bill was not going to give them the answers that they needed. The only thing he was forthcoming about was the murder and cleanup of Jim Roden. But with everything else, he was pretty tight-lipped.

He did, however, offer up a piece of information that caught the detectives by surprise. Bill randomly told them that at some point on the day of the bombing, he had used a payphone at a gas station off Peach Street. Interestingly, it happened to be the same payphone that was used to place the pizza delivery order that day. The detectives were a little taken aback by this statement. The payphone comment was sort of irrelevant, so why did he offer up that information?

Was Bill worried that someone saw him at the payphone that day? They didn't know. But later on, investigators would get a tip from a UPS delivery driver who said that on the day of the bombing, he was driving down Peach Street when he saw a dark-haired woman and an older gray-haired man making a call at the payphone. The driver also said he remembered the man was wearing overalls, something Bill Rothstein was known to frequently wear.

This driver would later say that after looking at the photos of Bill and Marjorie, he was positive that they were the people standing at the payphone. - It's also around this time when detectives discovered that Bill Rothstein had actually put his home up for sale

And his asking price? $250,000. The exact same amount of money that was demanded at the PNC bank robbery. Even further, Bill put his home up for sale shortly before the bombing. And his real estate agent tried to tell him that his listing price was way too high. In fact, his home had an appraisal value of $83,000. But he was adamant that they sell it at $250,000.

So was it just a coincidence that Bill was selling his home for the exact same price that was demanded in the robbery? Investigators didn't think so.

Now something else that is very important to note is that there were multiple agencies working this case and at times there wasn't great communication between them. For instance, it's around this time when state troopers began combing through the federal agents notes from the day of the bombing. And believe it or not, they came across one note that said on the day of the bombing,

A blue van was seen at one of the scavenger hunt locations. And can you guess who owned a blue van? Bill Rothstein. Investigators were now sure that Bill Rothstein was a part of the pizza delivery bombing. But tragically, in July of 2004, as they were building their case, Bill would die from stage four lymphoma. This was a huge disappointment for everyone.

Bill was supposed to be the prosecution's star witness in the murder trial against Marjorie. He was also likely responsible for one of Erie's biggest mysteries. And now he was gone. Interestingly enough, three days before he passed away, investigators interviewed him one last time.

They hoped that in doing so, Bill would have a change of heart and give them a deathbed confession. But until the very end, Bill denied any involvement in the bombing. It was a secret he took to his grave.

For six months after her arrest, Marjorie Deal Armstrong had been held under a psychiatric evaluation, so investigators hadn't been able to interview her. And her trial for Jim Roten's murder was right around the corner. And surprisingly, for his murder, Marjorie would plead guilty, but she said she was mentally ill during the crime, which is actually a plea in Pennsylvania. Guilty, but mentally ill. From this point, Marjorie was sentenced to seven to 20 years in prison for the murder of Jim Roten.

Which is a pretty lenient sentence. This meant that Marjorie could be paroled in just seven years. Which was a really scary thought considering she had killed another boyfriend of hers years back.

And in a strange twist, the DA in this case actually went to high school with Marjorie. And he would later say, I know the court cannot take into the account the acquittal of Bob Thomas' murder of a number of years ago, but I think it's important to note that the conduct she engaged in in the late 80s was almost identical to this particular conduct. I think the psychiatric reports reflect a woman who was suffering from a mental disorder, and that without question, if she were ever placed on the streets again, she would kill another man.

With Marjorie now in prison, investigators continue to work the pizza bombing case, but they were kind of at a standstill. They didn't have any physical evidence linking Marjorie or Bill Rothstein to the crime, and they needed help.

So it's here in February of 2005 when investigators spoke with the media. In a press conference, they said that they are not just looking for one individual. The bombing of Brian Wells was done by a group of people living right there in Erie, Pennsylvania. But despite this being a group effort, one person who they called Collar Bomber was the mastermind.

The FBI then released the profile of their collar bomber, saying he was not motivated by money, but by the power he felt throughout the operation. They said the collar bomber was smart and patient, yet obsessive and manipulative. They speculated that the assailant planned this attack out for months, and that he would be skilled in using machinery and repairing devices.

They also likely kept to themselves and followed along with the media as the case panned out. According to the FBI, this person wouldn't go out of their way to mention the case to people, but if it were to be brought up, they would likely scrutinize the authorities for their lack of progress, as they believed they were smarter than the FBI.

At the end of their statement, they noted, "It continues to be the opinion of the department that this is much more than a mere bank robbery. The behavior seen in this crime was choreographed by Collar Bomber, watching on the sidelines, according to a written script, in which he attempted to direct others to do what he wanted them to do. The person is a manipulator who manipulates the actions of others. He is like a puppeteer."

The FBI's profile of the collar bomber was a perfect match to the man they suspected all along, Bill Rothstein. But he was dead, so the only other person that could give them the answers they needed was the other person they suspected in the bombing, Marjorie Deal Armstrong. And luckily for them, just a few months after this profile was released, Marjorie told the prison officials that she was finally ready to talk.

When the agents met with her, Marjorie was quick to tell them that Bill Rothstein was indeed the person who built the bomb. And she also said that Jim Roden's murder wasn't because she blamed him for the robbery at her house. In fact, Marjorie said that Jim's murder was directly correlated with the pizza bombing incident.

That summer of 2003, Marjorie said the plan to rob the PNC bank had been thoroughly planned out by Bill Rothstein and her boyfriend Jim Roden was in on it. But Marjorie said as it got closer to the date, Jim started getting nervous. He even threatened to go to the police. So Marjorie said she shot him to keep him quiet. She also said that Bill Rothstein was right next to her when she killed him.

And Brian Wells, Marjorie said that he was no innocent victim in all of this and that he had been in on it all along. Now, throughout this confession, Marjorie continued to distance herself from the bank robbery.

She acted like she didn't really know all the details of the heist and that Bill Rothstein was the one who planned it all. However, investigators knew that Marjorie had more of a hand in this than she was willing to admit. But the big question was, what was her motive? Well, they were about to find out. Like we mentioned, there was a lot of miscommunication between the different agencies working the case.

And one day, a state trooper named David Gluth decided that he was going to look through the FBI's evidence to see if they missed anything. And boy, did they. He spent hours looking through the boxes of evidence taken from Marjorie's home. And on the very last box, he found a letter that Marjorie had written to the PNC bank, the same bank used in the robbery.

After reading the letter, it was clear that Marjorie hated the PNC Bank. And let me tell you why. A few years before the bombing, Marjorie's mother had passed away. And instead of being there for her grieving father, she decided to fight him for their estate. Marjorie's mom and dad had saved up around $1.8 million throughout their lifetime.

And because Marjorie was the only child, she was set to inherit all of it. But she didn't want to wait until her father died to get the money. She wanted it right then. So shortly after her mother's death, she went back and forth with the PNC bank, trying to get administration over her parents' estate. But the PNC bank denied her, and she was pissed.

Now, the FBI had suspected that whoever was responsible for the bank robbery had a personal vendetta against the PNC Bank. And after finding that letter, it all started to make sense. But they still had some unanswered questions. Like, why did they need exactly $250,000?

How was Brian Wells roped into all of this? Now, investigators knew that Marjorie wasn't going to answer any of these questions. However, one thing to know about her is that she has a big mouth. And even though she wouldn't talk to authorities about what happened, she would end up talking to her cellmate.

In November of 2005, Marjorie Selmy came to the authorities with over 20 pages of notes she had taken of all the things Marjorie had confessed to during their time together.

including detailed information about the bank robbery. Now, you always have to take things with a grain of salt when it comes to jailhouse snitches, but the things that this woman had written down seemed to answer all of the FBI's questions. So here are some of the major points that were written down. Marjorie allegedly told her roommate that the entire pizza bombing plan started because she wanted her father murdered.

So she started coming up with a plan to have him killed. So that's when Marjorie approached her 51-year-old friend named Ken Barnes. Now, Ken was a drug dealer in town with a criminal history. And one day in early 2003, Marjorie approached him and asked if he would be willing to kill her father. Initially, Ken said no, but Marjorie persisted.

And eventually, Ken said he would do it for $250,000. But Marjorie didn't have that kind of money. So that's when she and Bill started planning the bank robbery. And not just at any bank. She wanted to rob the PNC bank.

who denied her her inheritance. In Marjorie and Bill's mind, it was the perfect plan. They would find someone to rob the bank of $250,000. Then they would give that money to Ken, who would murder her father. And from there, Marjorie would get her parents $1.8 million inheritance.

So as investigators are reading all of this and her cellmate's notes, it all finally starts to make sense. But again, all of this information is coming from her cellmate. So the next step is to find Ken Barnes and confront him with this new information. Of course, initially Ken denied everything, but after turning up the heat, he eventually came clean.

And Ken would actually be the person who filled in all the blanks. Here is what he told investigators.

Marjorie approached me in early 2003 and asked me to kill her father. I didn't want to. I initially told her no, but she kept asking. For months, she and Jim would come over and beg me to do it. And she would say things like, come on, Ken, what's your price? So I finally gave her a number. I said I would kill her dad for $250,000 and I wanted $100,000 up front.

But I wasn't serious. I just wanted to see if she was dumb enough to give me money up front. All I was going to do was take half the money and I was going to go to Buffalo and buy a lot of crack and come back and be a millionaire. That didn't work out because I smoked my own product too much.

Ken said that after he agreed to kill Marjorie's father, the bank robbery plans commenced and there were a lot of people involved. There was Bill and Marjorie, obviously, Jim Roden, Marjorie's boyfriend at the time, Bill's roommate, Floyd Stockton, Ken, and even Brian Wells' coworker, Robert Panetti, the one who died of a drug overdose days after the bombing.

But the only issue was, while they were planning everything out, no one wanted to be the person that actually had to rob the bank. So they started brainstorming. And that's when Floyd, Bill's roommate at the time, suggested they use a pizza delivery man. Luckily for them, Ken knew the perfect guy for the job, Brian Wells. Brian's connection to the group of criminals was through Ken Barnes.

You see, Ken lived in a very rough part of town and sold crack cocaine out of his home. He was also known to let sex workers use his house for work.

And according to him, Brian Wells was one of his regulars. Apparently, Brian would come over from time to time to have sex with Jessica, who we mentioned earlier on in the story. And Brian even delivered pizzas to Marjorie on a number of occasions. So they did know each other in passing. But according to Ken, they approached Brian one day and asked if he wanted to be a part of the heist.

And clearly, since he would be the guy robbing the bank, they would give him a large cut of the profit. And according to Ken, Brian agreed. He said that Brian had some debt he needed to pay off, so he was up for the job. Now, you might be thinking, why on earth would Brian agree to put a bomb around his neck and rob a bank? Well, according to Ken, Brian was under the impression that the bomb would be faked.

He had no idea just how dangerous this group of criminals actually were, who allegedly agreed to do it. The plan was finally in motion. But sadly, Brian was lied to. And in July of 2003, Bill Rothstein started making the real bomb. For months, he and Marjorie meticulously planned out every detail of the heist. And it was all going according to plan.

But then, just a few weeks before the bombing, Marjorie's boyfriend, Jim Roden, started to get cold feet. So together, she and Bill murdered him to keep him quiet.

When authorities spoke to Floyd Stockton, Bill's old roommate, he corroborated Ken's story. He said that throughout the planning process, he was getting cold feet too. In fact, the day before the heist, Floyd said he tried to back out, but Bill told him, you don't have a fucking choice, and Marjorie will kill you if you don't cooperate. And he knew that that was true. They all saw what Marjorie did to Jim, her boyfriend, when he got cold feet.

So Floyd said he kept his mouth shut. Now, the day before the bank robbery, everyone involved all met up at Bill's house to rehearse everything. And everyone was in attendance. Bill, Marjorie, Ken, Floyd, Brian Wells, and Brian's coworker, Robert Panetti. Now, during this meeting, Marjorie even measured Brian's neck to make sure the bomb would fit. And right there, in Bill's living room, they pulled out a fake bomb. They wrapped it around Brian's neck and told him that this would be the decoy used in the heist.

And Brian believed them. Now, you might be thinking, if Brian agreed to rob the bank with a fake bomb, why would they go through the trouble of making a real one? Well, it's speculated that Marjorie really wanted to make sure she got that $250,000. If the bomb was fake, Brian could easily just give up on the plan. But with a real bomb around his neck, he wouldn't have the chance to back out of it. His life would be on the line, so he would do everything in his power to get that money.

So on August 27th, 2003, everyone in the group went to bed that night with tomorrow's plans on their mind. Meanwhile, the rest of Erie, Pennsylvania was completely unaware that their sleepy little town was about to change forever.

On the morning of August 28th, 2003, Brian Wells woke up and went to work for what would be his very last shift. Meanwhile, on the other side of town, Marjorie drove over to Ken Barnes' house to pick him up, and from there, they drove to the payphone on Peach Street.

Bill Rothstein met them there, and together, at 1.15 p.m., they placed a call to Mama Mia's Pizza. Once the call was made, they all drove to the transmission tower, where they waited for Brian. And everyone was in attendance, including Bill, Marjorie, Ken, Floyd, and Brian's co-worker, Robert Panetti.

and at around 2 pm they all see brian's car pull down the dirt road this was the moment of truth bill rothstein turned to floyd and motioned for him to grab the bomb and as he walked away brian got out of his car and set the two pizzas on the hood of bill's van moments later floyd came around the corner holding the device brian glanced over

and his eyes immediately widened. This was not the fake bomb they had showed him the day before. This one was real. At that very moment, Brian looked to his left and started to run, but Bill Rothstein pulled out a gun and shot it into the air. A warning shot. From here, Floyd and Brian's co-worker Robert ran after Brian and tackled him to the ground.

There was a bit of a struggle, but they were able to overpower him. They each held him by the arm and brought him over to Bill and Marjorie. Marjorie helped hold the bomb, while Bill strapped it on. At this point, Brian was sobbing. He pleaded with them to let him go. He didn't want to be a part of it anymore, but he didn't have a choice.

Once the bomb was secured, Marjorie and Bill handed him the homemade shotgun. They knew Brian wouldn't use it on them because his life was literally in their hands. And it's here where they told him to rob the bank and then follow the rules of the scavenger hunt. They made Brian think that if he worked quickly, he would live. But he never had a chance.

They also never intended on giving him any of the money from that day. He was simply a pawn in their sick little game. It's also at this point where they told him to blame it on a group of black men if he were to get caught. Bill then put the key into the bomb, which started the 55 minute timer. And with that, Brian Wells was in a race against time.

After the group watched Brian drive away, they ate the pizza that he brought them. And once they were finished, Marjorie, Ken, and Bill drove to Peach Street to watch everything unfold. Bill ended up taking a separate car and they communicated with each other through walkie-talkies, which were later found in Bill's van. But they all ended up parking in the parking lot across the street from the PNC bank. And they used binoculars to get a good look at everything going on. Soon enough, they saw Brian exit the bank with a bag of cash in his hand.

Little did they know, he didn't get the $250,000. He was only able to walk away with a little over $8,000.

The group then watched as he made his way over to the McDonald's and then the eyeglass world. Brian was now halfway through the scavenger hunt. If everything went to plan, he would then go to the other location and give Floyd the bag of cash. The group knew that Brian wouldn't be able to get the bomb off in time, but they didn't care. As long as they had the money, that's all that mattered. And from their binoculars, it seemed as if everything was going according to plan. But then in the distance, they heard sirens.

And before they knew it, they watched as Brian was surrounded by police. This was not a part of their plan, and it was falling apart in front of their very eyes. So from here, they all quickly fled the scene and drove back to Bill's house in a hurry. According to Ken, Bill was furious that the plan went awry. He was also scared that investigators would finish the scavenger hunt.

and find the clues that would lead back to them. So he ordered Marjorie to get in his van and drive to the other location so she could get rid of the evidence. Ken got into the van with her and according to him, Marjorie was panicking. So much so, she even started driving on the wrong way of the interstate just so she could get to the location quickly.

Ken said that when they arrived, Marjorie pulled the car over and ran into the woods. And when she came back, she was holding something wrapped in a white t-shirt. From here, Marjorie drove to another location and she and Bill switched cars. Then she dropped off Ken at his house. But before leaving, she threatened him. Marjorie said if he ever told anybody about what happened that day, she would kill him.

just like she did her boyfriend, Jim Roden. At the end of it all, the group was paranoid beyond measure. After they all got home, they turned on their TVs and watched the media coverage from that day. And that's when they all learned that Brian had died. The bomb exploded, putting a fist-sized hole right in his chest. And to be honest, they were kind of relieved.

If authorities would have been able to get the bomb off him, he surely would have told him who was responsible. But Brian never got the chance. They also learned by watching the news that Brian had followed their instructions. As he sat in the Eyeglass World parking lot, Brian told the authorities that a group of black men were responsible. And people that follow this case wonder why.

Why wouldn't Brian tell the officers the true identity of the people who did this? And I think it's important to remember that Brian was told if he didn't follow their instructions, they would kill him. They also told him that they would be watching his every move to make sure he was following the rules. He likely figured if he said who really did this, Bill and Marjorie would detonate the bomb right then and there. So he lied.

In the days after the bombing, the town of Erie was in a frenzy. Every media outlet in the country was covering the case, and it was all anyone could talk about. The FBI and ATF were also assisting the state police in the investigation, and there was a huge police presence all over the town, especially near the transmission tower where Brian said he was attacked.

Now, you would think that Bill Rothstein would lay low considering he lived right next to the tower and the fact that the dead body of Jim Roden was still in his freezer

But that wasn't the case. In fact, Bill stood out on his porch and proudly spoke with the media. Marjorie, on the other hand, was a basket case. Not because she regretted taking Brian's life, but because she was scared of getting caught. In fact, immediately after the bombing, Marjorie started talking with the group about Brian's co-worker, Robert Panetti. She didn't think he was trustworthy, and she considered him a loose end.

So it's here where they decided to kill him too. Now, Robert had a history of drug abuse, so they knew exactly how to get rid of him. A few days after the bombing, Ken approached him and gave Robert a lethal dose of drugs. And soon after that, he would be found dead of a drug overdose.

So now, thanks to Ken and Floyd's confessions, investigators finally had the full story. Ken and Floyd's confessions also matched up with the story that Marjorie's cellmate had given them. So it's safe to say that is how the story panned out. But the one question that investigators still had was what was Bill Rothstein's motivation behind all of this?

He was the one who built the bomb and the one who came up with the idea of the scavenger hunt. But why? Everyone else involved in the crime was clearly motivated by money and greed, but not Bill. In fact, at the time of the bombing, he knew his cancer diagnosis was terminal. So clearly, money wouldn't have been a big motive.

Investigators theorized that he wanted in on this plan so he could go out with a bang. Bill Rothstein loved the idea of being the mastermind that was smart enough to build a complex pipe bomb, which is so interesting because Bill claimed he was so smart, the smartest guy in every room, but the scavenger hunt and the entire heist was honestly really freaking stupid.

He ordered Brian to rob a bank and then send him on a scavenger hunt, driving in circles, on one of the busiest roads in town. So the fact that he actually thought he'd get away with this is pretty dumb.

And then, after the plan went awry, Bill was the one who exposed the group to the police by reporting the body in his garage. Throughout the years, many people wonder why Bill did this. It's speculated that he thought the police were zeroing in, and he wanted to throw Marjorie under the bus before they all got caught.

Interestingly enough, Bill went out of his way to deny any involvement in the pizza bombing. And that's because he prided himself on being the smartest person in the room. And I think he realized just how stupid this entire plan truly was. And he didn't want to be known as the mastermind behind it. So until his dying breath, Bill Rothstein proclaimed his innocence.

Now, despite her co-conspirators turning against her, Marjorie continued to deny her involvement in the crime. In fact, she said that yes, she was with the group when the heist was going down, but she didn't have any part in it. Throughout Marjorie's life, she never took responsibility for her actions, even after murdering Bob Thomas back in the 80s. And her most recent boyfriend, Jim Roden, she never thought she was in the wrong.

and she always made excuses, excuses, excuses for her actions. But that didn't matter anymore. The authorities had everything they needed. Now, Floyd Stockton would end up getting immunity due to his cooperation with the police. But on July 11th, 2007, Marjorie Deal Armstrong and Ken Barnes were federally indicted on charges of conspiracy to commit armed robbery, aiding and abetting an armed bank robbery involving a death.

and aiding and abetting the use of a destructive device in a crime of violence. The federal indictment also listed Bill Rothstein as a co-conspirator and Brian Wells, stating that he planned on robbing the bank that day with what he thought was a fake bomb. During the press conference where this information was revealed, U.S. Attorney Mary Beth Buchanan said, "...it was the participant's intention to have it seem as though the person wearing the explosive device was a hostage."

In response to this, Brian's sister Barbara yelled out, "'Liar! What if somebody bolted a bomb around your neck, Mary Beth? What would you do? What would you do?'

Brian's family was outraged that they were painting him out to be a villain. They claimed there was absolutely no evidence that Brian was involved, other than the testimony of a bunch of criminals. His brother John said, "Where is the evidence? There is no evidence. You cannot link a man where there is no evidence. When he was accosted at gunpoint, taken from his job,

That's not a co-conspirator. 19 hours after that bomb went off, the federal authorities chopped his head off to get that collar off. Brian did not put that collar on himself." John would later say, "...I would like to let everyone know that Brian was a completely innocent murder victim in this case. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise, or you would have heard that evidence today."

My brother is a brutal murder victim. He does not know any of these people. The fact that he delivered Rothstein's pizza does not make him a co-conspirator. When he delivered pizzas to the DA, that did not make him a prosecutor. When he delivered pizzas to the medical center, that did not make him a doctor.

and when he delivers pizzas to a murderer, that does not make him a co-conspirator. I have not seen any evidence to suggest he knew any of these people in any way other than he might have delivered them a pizza." Brian's sister Jean also spoke with reporters about the FBI sloppy investigation saying, "They let an innocent man, my brother, die while in their custody.

and they didn't even lift a finger to help him. This case is going to be looked at for years to come, and they don't want it known that they screwed up. Brian never would have done this. They want it known that he was a poor man. He wanted money. No, Brian was never materialistic. He was never greedy. He never would have done this."

But the US Attorney Mary Buchanan said, "There were opportunities when he could have let people know what was happening, and that is why he was both a participant and a victim." Now clearly, the story of Brian Wells is tragic either way. Even if he agreed to rob the PNC bank with a fake bomb, he ended up a murder victim. Brian never imagined anyone getting hurt that day.

and he definitely didn't expect to die. I think it's clear to everyone that he crossed paths with an evil group of individuals. And because of that, he ended up being one of the many murder victims of Marjorie Deal Armstrong and her group of co-conspirators. Now for her trial, Marjorie would plead not guilty, but she didn't have any money at this point.

And her dad clearly wasn't going to help her out after she tried to kill him, so she was forced to get a public defender. But before her trial started, Marjorie found out she had cancer. It started out as breast cancer, but then spread to her lymph nodes. And in 2010, a malignant tumor was found in her neck that she had to get removed. But once that surgery was finished, it was time for Marjorie to face a jury.

Marjorie's trial started on October 15th, 2010, and the prosecution's star witness was Ken Barnes, her co-conspirator. Floyd Stockton was also supposed to testify in her trial, but he ended up having open heart surgery shortly before, so he wasn't cleared to travel. But it wouldn't even matter. After 10 days, her trial came to an end, and the jury left for deliberation.

and after 11 hours, they had reached their verdict. Marjorie D.L. Armstrong was found guilty on all counts. Her sentencing trial started on February 28, 2011, and federal magistrate judge Martin C. Carlson would comment, a coldly calculated criminal recidivist and serial killer, marked by brutality, sadism, cruelty, and the morbid abuse of her victims, both living in debt. The U.S. attorney Marshall Piccini, who prosecuted Marjorie, also had some words, saying...

When you combine this woman's serious mental illness with her personality disorder, her narcissism, her paranoia, her deception, her manipulativeness, you combine that into one person with evil and this is the type of crime that results. The combination of Marjorie Deal Armstrong and her propensity towards violence in this particular case proved deadly. At the end of it all, Marjorie would be sentenced to life without the possibility of parole, plus 30 additional years.

As you can imagine, Marjorie worked hard to try and appeal her sentence, but they were all unsuccessful, so she would have to live out the rest of her days at the Federal Medical Center in Fort Worth, Texas. However, on March 21st, 2017, Marjorie was found unresponsive in her cell. Then two weeks later, on April 4th, 2017, she would pass away at 68 years old.

As for Ken Barnes, her co-conspirator, he had made a plea deal with the prosecution and in exchange for his testimony at Marjorie's trial, he got his most serious charge dropped, which was aiding and abetting a bank robbery. And at the end of it, he was sentenced to 45 years in prison, but later on it would be reduced to 22 and a half. Ken was supposed to be up for parole in 2027,

But luckily, he wouldn't make it that far. Two years after Marjorie's death, in July of 2019, Ken Barnes would die in a North Carolina prison of small cell lung cancer that had spread to his brain. And then we have Floyd Stockton, the last surviving member of the evil group.

Floyd was given immunity in the pizza bombing case, but he was already serving time in prison for raping a 19-year-old disabled woman. However, after serving that sentence, he would be released back into the real world. But just a few years back, on August 10th, 2022, Floyd Stockton would die from acute respiratory failure. He was 75 years old.

His ex-wife would later comment on his death, saying, quote, He was an evil, sick rapist, abuser, and murderer who got enjoyment showing power over other people. I shed no tears but find peace in his death. End quote.

His daughter would also comment, saying, quote, I love the man he should have been. His evil won his soul. I'm thankful I only got the goodness of him. I will find peace knowing he's gone and can't hurt or reflect his evil on anyone else ever again. End quote.

With the death of Floyd Stockton, that meant all members of the pizza bombing case are now deceased, three of whom died of aggressive cancers. And I have to say, the world is a better place without them here. But as we wrap this story up, I think it's interesting to reflect on how these horrible human beings all came together. Each of them were messed up in their own ways.

but together, they were an evil force to be reckoned with. Jerry Clark, the FBI agent who worked the pizza bombing case, would later comment on the group, saying, "What really made this case so unique is the characters. The fact that these like-minded, mean-spirited people all found each other with such bad intentions is truly the craziest part of this case." Which is true.

All four of the pizza bombing members were horrible human beings. Marjorie Deal Armstrong murdered anyone that got in her way. Bill Rothstein came up with the pizza bombing scheme that ultimately took the lives of three people, including Jim Roden, Brian Wells, and Robert Panetti. Ken Barnes dealt crack cocaine and agreed to take the life of Marjorie's father. He also supplied the drugs that killed Robert Panetti.

And then finally Floyd Stockton, who raped multiple women throughout his life. These people were the scum of the earth who all came together to wreak havoc. But as for Brian Wells, he didn't seem to fit in with this group.

People that knew him said that he was kind and gentle. They said he was a simple man who treated people with respect and didn't need much to be happy. According to the FBI, Brian Wells was a member of the pizza bombing group. But to many people out there that know this story, Brian Wells was just one of their many victims who happened to cross paths with evil.

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Hey everybody, it's Colin here. Thank you for joining us for this week's episode of Murder in America. Now, this is truly a crazy, wild, hard to believe story that honestly, I wouldn't believe if they hadn't made documentaries about this and reported on this in the news. I mean, it's literally something out of a movie. It just doesn't seem real.

But I want to shout out some of our new patrons this week. Oh my God, guys, we have so many names to get through. But you're really missing out if you're not joining the party on Patreon. So...

If you love the show, you want bonus content, just head over to patreon.com and search Murder in America. For $5 a month, you get access to every single episode we post early and ad-free. For $10 a month, you get all the early ad-free episodes, plus...

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And we have a great community on there. I love interacting with everybody on our Patreon. Also, be sure to follow us on Instagram at Murder in America. We are really trying to hit 100,000 followers. So if you hear this message, get your phone out, type in Murder in America. Let's boost those numbers. We're getting really, really close. And yeah, we just love you guys so much. Thank you, everybody, for listening. We were the 14th biggest true crime podcast in the nation this month. That's where we're currently sitting right now as I'm recording this. So...

It's all because of you guys, so thank you so much. But anyways, it's Colin Brow in here, and we'll catch y'all on the next one. Hello, I'm Shelby Scott, the host of Scare You to Sleep, a podcast where I tell you spooky bedtime stories full of creepy sound effects and music that is soothing yet unsettling to help immerse you into a world of horror. This is a show for those of us who have realized horror

Horror can be a strange but relaxing escape from reality. Speaking of escapes, sometimes I lead you through guided nightmares, like a guided meditation, but instead of flowery meadows, I take you on a journey through your own personal nightmare.

So come get lost in the terror with me. Listen to Scare You to Sleep wherever you listen to podcasts or find us online at bloody.fm. Sweet screams.

Why horror?

We go extremely deep with the films in discussion. For us to accomplish this, we break down each film, scene by scene, spoiling literally everything. You can find Nightlight, a horror movie podcast, every Friday on your favorite podcast service. And remember, everybody, don't forget your nightlight. It was late in the afternoon when the professor and I took our way towards the east, whence I knew Jonathan was coming.

Jonathan Harker has asked me to note this, as he says he is hardly equal to the task, and he wants an exact record kept. Dear Madame Mina, I have read your husband's so wonderful diary. Strange and terrible as it is, it is true. I will pledge my life on it. God preserve my sanity, for to this I am reduced. Safety and the assurance of safety are things of the past.

I am in hopes that I shall see more of you at Castle Dracula. Listen to Regarding Dracula wherever you listen to podcasts, or find us online at bloody.fm.