Kids Who Lie, Steal, Sneak Things At Night
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After you purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. So please support our podcast and tell them we sent you. So do you have a child who lies, sometimes repeatedly and reflexively? What do you do when your child predictably sneaks food or their iPad or phone late at night? How do you handle a teen or tween who liberates your credit card from your purse or wallet to buy some gaming apps without your knowledge?

What would you do if your child stole something and then lied about it? I want to give you scripts and specific action steps. So that is what we're going to discuss on today's episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast. So welcome. This is Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm. You can find us at CelebrateCalm.com. You can find us on Instagram and even TikTok now at the Calm Parenting Podcast. So let me just address this bluntly. Kids love

Lie. Humans lie. Stop being shocked by it. It's not usually an integrity issue. So stop with the lectures about, well, you just need to tell us the truth. We need to be able to trust you. It has nothing to do with that. You have strong-willed kids who make impulsive decisions because they like to learn by touching the hot stove and pushing limits.

That's normal and healthy. But then they realize, oh crap, I shouldn't have done that. So they try to cover it up because of their shame or embarrassment. They don't want that long lecture and they don't want the consequence sometimes. So you will ask them about their action and voila, they lie. Why is this shocking? It's happened since the beginning of time.

This is an impulse control issue way more than an integrity issue. And that's why it's critical to teach our kids impulse control in practical ways. And I've been through that on previous podcasts and in our programs.

I just don't want you shaming kids for lying because that causes them to become better liars and more sneaky. So we'll go through this a little bit more in the third example today. So first question, what would you do if your child used your credit card to go online late at night to purchase apps for their video games?

Look, I just print out the bill. I print out the charges on your credit card. I would circle them and then I'd lay that piece of paper on the kitchen counter or hand it to your child and just say, look, I expect you to pay this back to me plus an extra $50 for the time it took me to call the credit card company and replace my cards since I thought it was fraud.

No drama. Your child will deny this. They're gonna say someone hacked your account and I have no problem saying this. Look, I'm not an idiot and I know it's embarrassing to get caught. I'm not interested in lecturing you or punishing you. You know this was wrong and we've all done stuff like this. Just own it. Don't do it again. I expect you to pay this back and until that's done, no video games for you. Now,

Now, you have the option of walking out of the room and letting your child sit in the discomfort of their action and what they did and their embarrassment. That's perfectly fine. Or you could say, "Hey, why don't we go grab a smoothie, a couple tacos? We don't have to talk about this, but I am hungry." See, I don't want to get into a long discussion or lecture or create a lot of drama.

Part of my larger goal with your kids and especially in the teen and tween years is to be the one person and one thing in their lives without drama because their entire lives are nothing but drama and there's no need for endless back and forth and them making excuses.

and trying to argue and negotiate with you. I just don't do that. So short and sweet, no drama, no shame. Okay, second question. What about a child who is sneaking food or say their iPad in the middle of the night? First thing I do, I normalize it. Of course you'd wanna get up in the middle of the night and sneak time on your iPad or get food that we don't want you to have.

Look, this is all normal human behavior and especially kid behavior. I'm not excusing it. I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying it's normal to want to do that. Look, our kids have access to screens, to the internet, to all.

all the world's information to these tantalizing videos and exciting videos. And I don't even mean just the tantalizing ones, just interesting videos and they're curious kids. So it makes sense to me. Where I really want to put my energy is problem solving. So be curious and get to the root. So I'm curious how this feels when you do this in the middle of the night.

Do you kind of get a thrill out of the strategic thinking that goes into this, like planning when we go to bed? Because I know you're really good at noticing patterns. So you know I usually fall asleep right after I use the bathroom and you can kind of hear me flushing the toilet in my room. So do you get a rush from sneaking downstairs, from having to be quiet?

From using your brain, that strategic brain to figure out how to get the food out of the cupboard without making noise, without replacing it so we didn't notice, and then just getting away with it. I get that. That is kind of fun. It's a challenge and you're actually pretty good at it. So,

I have an idea. Look, you can keep sneaking your iPad and your food. You're just going to lose your iPad forever. I'm just going to lock it up or sell it. You're just going to get in trouble. It's just not going to work.

But what if you and I brainstormed some different ways to use those strategic thinking skills and that ability to see patterns to get that brain stimulation you seek in positive ways? Maybe running your own little business in the neighborhood because you've got a big heart too and you could make some money and we could donate that to St. Jude's for kids with cancer. I'll even match some of that.

Man, there's a lot of other things we can do in order to get that brain stimulation, that thrill.

Something like that. See, that way you've problem solved. You've actually taught your child why he or she is doing these things. You're teaching them about their brains. And so they can start to understand why they do things. And this is really important because when they get older and they go out into the world by themselves...

Instead of seeking out risky behaviors and risky pursuits, they'll know, oh yeah, I know my brain will always need...

to be stimulated. I seek out intensity. And so now I know to do that in positive ways instead of making really bad decisions. Does that make sense? I'm not saying, oh buddy, it's okay. We all make mistakes. No, it was wrong, but I'm not creating a lot of drama around it

And what I really want to do, instead of just taking things away, because for some of your kids, when you take things away, it's like, oh, good. Now I've got a bigger challenge. I once worked with parents who put locks on the cupboards and the child figured out a way to pick the lock. It became an extra challenge. So now I'm saying, hey, I know how your brain works.

I know what's going on. I've seen this before. Why don't we do this differently? And there are all kinds of different ways for them to get positive intensity and stimulate their brains. Okay, third example. So this nice couple come up to me after a live event and

And they said, hey, we had four $100 bills in a cupboard because we'd sold something online. And we came into home once and we noticed three of the bills were missing. Now our daughter informed us that she had seen the missing money in our son's room. And I played like I didn't know. I got down at my son's eye level and I asked him if he had taken the money.

He denied it. I then placed him over my knee to give him a spanking and he confessed. I admit that I was so irritated that he lied to my face and broke our trust that I gave him an extra spanking. What would you have done differently in this situation?

So a few things. Number one, I have a bias here. I expected the kid or expect the kid to grab the $100 bills. Seriously, I'd be shocked if he didn't. Read history, study human nature, stop being shocked that a kid would steal this money. Honestly, the first time I heard this story, I was like, why didn't he take all four of the $100 bills? Why did he leave just the one? That was weird.

So why would this surprise you that a kid stole some tantalizing looking $100 bills? Am I excusing it? Absolutely not. I just don't want to get that worked up about it. Number two, of course your son lied.

Look, in some ways, it's actually a good sign. It means he has a conscience and he knows he did something wrong. There's no moral ambiguity here. The kid knew when he first set his eyes on those dollar bills and first put his fingers on them, he knew it was wrong. Kids know from a very young age, you don't steal, you don't lie, you don't cheat, you don't hit people, you don't call people names. They know that.

He knew it was wrong. That's why he hid the money in his room. And that's why he lied when asked about it. Because he knew it was wrong.

He didn't want the consequences. He didn't want to get caught disappointing you. He was possibly afraid of your reaction, so he lied right to your face. That makes perfect sense to me. And to be honest, he had a right to fear your reaction and being taken over the knee. Look, that's humiliating. That's not discipline. Discipline means to teach.

Sending a child to her room, taking away stuff, that doesn't teach kids anything. Well, I need to send the message that it was wrong. They already know it was wrong. What they need is for someone to teach them impulse control and how to make a different choice the next time. So please note this. It's not even really consequences your kids fear because they really don't.

They don't like disappointing us and sometimes they dread the anger, the long lectures, and the shame that comes from it. They're embarrassed. And please know that direct eye contact can be intimidating. Sometimes it's too intense for our kids and that's why I prefer having hard talks while riding in a car, building with Lego blocks, coloring, walking.

Just realize guys that sometimes we as men we're just plain intimidating. We are. Number three, if I'm being honest your game of gotcha was dishonest. You asked him if he had taken the dollar hundred dollar bills but you already knew that he did. Unless your daughter is a psychopath who planted the dollar bills in his room to make him look bad. So that was a form of entrapment that didn't need to happen.

And I do mean this. If you know that your child didn't wash his hands, or brush your teeth, or do their homework assignment, or complete their chores, stop asking your kids if they did when you already know they didn't. That is dishonest. It is not a trustworthy way of handling these situations. You're basically asking your child to lie to you. Well, but why won't he just tell the truth?

Because it's intimidating. Do you ever lie, even a white lie, when confronted with something, especially by a boss or someone bigger than you? It's really hard to look into your mother or father's eyes and say, I took something I wasn't supposed to, and then I deceived you.

I bet if they could, what they would want to say is like, please don't be upset at me. Please don't be disappointed more than please don't take things away. So what would I do differently?

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First, I would not spank. And here's why. Look, I'm not going to go into detail on the issue of spanking. I will just tell you bluntly that this will not work with a strong-willed child. These are fight-or-flight kids. And I promise you, if you do this, it will drive defiance and anger deep inside these kids. And that will...

will come out later and you will regret it. This has nothing to do with being, "Oh, you're just being soft on kids." Not at all. It's just that the spanking, it doesn't work. I've worked with almost a million families and I will say this with 100% conviction.

I can give you 10 more effective ways to discipline, i.e. teach a child, than spanking without the potential downsides. See, in this particular case, this dad did give an extra spanking out of what? Frustration. That's a definite no-go. It's entirely avoidable. So if I can give you... Look, I just created that new updated discipline program. It's four and a half hours long.

I can give you dozens of different ways to discipline your kids that have zero downsides, that build your trust with your kids, that don't reinforce and actually drive shame deep in them.

Look, look, look what happened in this situation. Your son lied to avoid getting spanked for stealing money. And then he told the truth to avoid getting spanked. And he still got spanked. See, there's a better way. So what would I do differently? Here's my favorite option. I would just be direct while you're playing catch or going for a ride or playing with Lego blocks. Something with no real eye contact. Simply say this.

"Look, son, daughter, I know you took those hundred dollar bills from the cupboard. I'm not mad. I'm not angry. I get it. I know that you know that was wrong and that's why you hid the bills. Mom and I have to run to the store for about an hour. When we are gone,

Just put the money back where you found it and we won't mention again. See, that would be a simple, honest way to deal with this. No gotcha, no big dance, no drama. You gave your child an opportunity to do what's right and make restitution without making it some big deal, without putting him in the position to lie again, without having to do that walk of shame in front of everyone.

It's kind of just a more merciful and honest way to handle it. And you may chafe at that, but I guarantee you, you wouldn't want to have your secret adult sins and weaknesses exposed in front of your family or friends. You'd be embarrassed. And you and I have those things. So

when you come home and see the money there do not make a big deal out of it no big praise the child simply did was what the child simply did what was expected both times first he took the shiny dollar bills and then he put them back and i could give like a little fist bump in passing but then i would move on with your day see that promotes trust

Because now he can trust that you will not freak out and you don't escalate something normal into some major issue wringing your hands and lecturing endlessly about integrity and trust. And I believe that 99% of the time your kids will put the money back when given the opportunity.

And if they do double down hardcore, go through the discipline program because we go through the situations like kids kicking the back of the seat, being aggressive, calling you the B word, hitting, all those tough things. But I believe that if you handle it this way, kids are going to put the money back. Now,

What would I do? Is that it? You know what I would do extra is I would role play. See, it's practicing behavior. Some of your kids have gotten into a really bad habit of lying. Like they're just lie over meaningless stuff that won't even get them in trouble. And so it's kind of become a habit. So I want you to build a new habit. I actually did this with Casey when he was a teenager.

So your kids need to practice verbally saying, "Hey mom, dad, I did that. I apologize. I was wrong." And you need to practice not overreacting, not grimacing and lecturing. So here's a cool script that I really like. Something like this: "Hey son, daughter, I realize that sometimes I make it difficult for you to tell me the truth.

I can be intimidating and scary. And sometimes I yell, I shake my head, I grimace, I lecture, I make you feel ashamed. So I want to practice learning how to respond better. So let's practice this. And I would literally just have your kids verbally practice using the words, hey, mom, dad, I didn't do my chores. Oh, I did take that money. I didn't brush my teeth. I didn't do my homework. I lied to you.

And then you practice saying, you know what, that takes courage and I'm proud of you for telling me the truth. So what are we going to do to fix the situation now?

Is there anything I can do to help you? See, practice actually verbalizing this so they get to say it out loud and you practice responding in stride without overreacting or creating drama. I want you to make it easy for your kids to come to you because if they don't come to you with their issues, they're going to go to their friends and you don't want that or to the internet.

So make it easy for your kids to come to you for help instead of being afraid or being a tenant, being tentative. I want them to be able to come and just say, hey, I lied right to your face. And then when you don't freak out, you can problem solve.

you could actually have a predetermined code word or routine. Hey, mom, dad, will you go through the football with me? Can we go for a walk? Can we grab a slice of pizza? Can I paint my nails with you? See, that's a sign they want to talk so you can be on your kind of best behavior yourself. So in this situation, you could even say, hey, you up for a slice of pizza, son? It's a prompt to do something together where you both are relaxed and it's free of drama.

I'd like you to have this in place for the teen years, especially when your kids need to talk about deeper stuff.

Look, it's getting younger and younger. So I really want you to have this in place from the time your kids are young, even third, fourth, fifth grade, because there's deep stuff going on. There's tough issues that they need to address without being afraid of your reaction. And you know, sometimes I like going out late at night, kind of for a snack with teens and tweens because they open up better then.

Look, final thought, the way we typically handle this, there's still these overriding and kind of underlying feelings of shame and distrust and worry and fear hanging over everyone. And that's not healthy. And it doesn't inspire a kid to be open and honest. It's that shaming and the anger can actually create a dynamic in which your kids are more likely to just get better at sneaking, hiding, deceiving, and lying.

So rather than put all the onus on the child to create trust, I want you and I, I want us as the adults to take the lead on creating trust

because we're the adults and i want to demonstrate very clearly and consistently to my kids you can trust me when you're at your worst i can handle when your world is out of control mine's not i want you to be able to come to me at any time because i can help you because remember discipline means to teach my goal is to guide these kids to teach them through these things not just to walk around

punishing them see that is a higher form of discipline because it shifts it from being about behavior to this being a two-way trusting relationship see that will break those old patterns many of those that you and i got from our parents and it will create new patterns in which your kids actually trust you

And that alone, I promise you, it will change so many of the behavior issues. You just working on yourself. So let's practice these things. But you know what's underlying all of it? Me being able to control myself.

Us working on our own control issues, breaking the old patterns. I know, but I just think when my child does that, I have to yell. No, you don't. You can break that pattern. No blame, no guilt. But let's break that pattern we got from our parents. It means I have to work on my own anxiety. Let's dig in and do that.

I promise you when you change yourself, your kids' behavior will change much more quickly. If we can help you in any way, let us know. As you go through those programs,

Let your kids listen to them. Look, let them listen to this podcast. Seriously, say like, hey, if you get a chance to listen to part of this podcast, is that the way you want to start doing it? Would you want to start handling some of these issues that way? Because now you're promoting really good conversations with your kids. There are no secrets here. There's nothing to hide. It's a two-way relationship and I want it to be healthy. Thank you for listening to the podcast.

I do appreciate it more than you know. And thanks for sharing it. I will see you on Instagram, sometimes a little bit on TikTok, but I still like Instagram better. And we have a lot more people there. But thanks for the new TikTok people who are listening to the podcast. I'll get better on your platform. But anyway, okay. Love you all. Talk to you soon. Bye-bye.