Murder, Mystery, And Mommies w/ Susan Hendricks | Your Mom's House Ep. 793
02:02:17 Share

What's up everybody? It's me, Tom Segura. I will be in San Francisco January 24th at the Chase Center. January 30th, I'm in Athens, Georgia. January 31st, Savannah, Georgia. February 1st, North Charleston, South Carolina. And February 27th, Evansville, Indiana. All the dates and info are at tomsegura.com slash tour. Welcome, welcome to your mom's house.

Bye.

Plus, enjoy zero delivery fees on your first three orders. Excludes restaurant orders, service fees, and terms apply. What's everybody? We are back. We are here. And it is time to get going. This is a huge episode. It's great to be...

doing this show for a year number 15 i think no way jose are you serious we started in 2010 so god damn later in 2010 but still it'll be 15 at some point this year still my favorite thing to do in the whole wide world it's so much fun to look at my jean my jean saint jean and talk about farting and coming and all sorts of good stuff all types of neat things rod my ass like a horse is

We have to slow roll the announcement of all the things happening this year. But just know this is a super packed year for us. I'm still on tour. I will be shooting a special at some point this year. I have a show coming out. I got some other things that I'm shooting. We're going to be doing some stuff. YMH Studios. That's right. It's very exciting. There's a lot of stuff happening this year. There's a lot of stuff happening. I'm not touring yet because I'm still recovering from all my, oh, I know, bullshit. I know.

I know. I'm sorry you had Invisalign and that was really traumatic. Yeah, it was. I had my own things going on. It's not a joke. But I'm still selling lipstick, you guys. Get the perfect four. That is Berlin, Madison, Atomic Red, and the perfect red. You should get them all four. And you know why? Because they cover all your bases. You got your daytime, your nighttime, your fancy, all of that shit. And, you know, in honor of what's happening in the art world right now,

The banana that got taped to the wall and sold. I'm throwing my hat in the ring as an artist as well. You can buy my pieces of art. You can buy Tom as a cat choking. That was my homage to the Netflix debacle. All that cool stuff. Don't forget. I'm not afraid of it anymore. I'm not afraid of that. Don't forget that.

that the lipstick is gender neutral. So this is not just for the ladies in your life. This is for any human. It can go with your color beard if you want, if you wish, if you want. Very cool. Very cool. All right. Before we get into all the fun stuff, let's do an opening clip. What do you, what do you say there, bro? If I think it is what it is, I'm going to be, you don't know what it is yet. You don't know what it is yet, but this one's cool. Here we go. Happy Saturday.

Rum, chai, and chai roll. Oh, he's gonna puke? No. Yes, he is, you fucking liar. I hate you so much, you dummy. He's not! Stop it! You're fucked, you know that? I hate you. I hate you so much. He's not. Yes, he is, and I'm not looking. He's ruining the clip. It really does just taste like cinnamon crunch. That's really good. Holy crap. Don't bring anyone's love into this.

Welcome to your mom's house with Tom Segura and Christina Pagitsky. Welcome to your mom's house. Thank you so much. God.

I don't like you. You know what? I just got inspired for new artwork. No! Yes. He doesn't throw up. I fucking hate you so much. You fucking ruined it. I don't want to listen to it. I love it. You ruined it. He doesn't throw up. Happy Saturday. What's wrong with his mouth? He's doing a gag. He is? How? Can you even curl your lip under? The whole time? It doesn't pop out? You think that's really what it looks like? What do you think? He doesn't throw up. It really does taste...

I hate you so much. It really does taste like cinnamon crunch. That's really good. That is his lip, I guess. I think it's his lip. I hope your lip looks like that. I thought you said it doesn't bother you anymore. You know what? You have food in your teeth. Why did you take it out? And I'm not going to tell you where. But why did you take it out? You said it doesn't bother you anymore. I don't like it. I like either seeing it or not. I don't like the in-between. What? What?

I don't like waiting the anticipation of the sound and the thing. You literally were like, it doesn't bother me anymore. What do you want from me? It's not my fault, my reaction. What do you want me to do? No, your reaction is stupid. You're stupid. You're stupid. You smell bad. I'm going to fucking draw another artwork for you. Stupid. You're stupid. Your mother. I'm so annoyed. Why would you open on that? It's hilarious. Why would you open on that? But I don't like that. You know it doesn't make me laugh. So that's just for you? Well, what? I don't get to laugh?

I'm not allowed to laugh? Can you please do a palate cleanser, something better than this? But you're ruining the vibe, just so you know. No, no, you've already ruined the vibe. No, the vibe was great. We were having fun. We were listening. Everyone was having a good time. Nobody liked it. Everybody was having a good time. Nobody liked it in there. Really? Ask them. Ask them. I don't think it's funny. Jesus. Please play something different. God, stop talking. You stop talking.

You're ruining everything. You're ruining everything. No, you are. You are. And you always do. Stop. I always. Yes. Always. Your big flaw is that you ruin everything. Oh my God. We were all having fun and then you ruined it. You knew that I wouldn't like the vomit clip. No, he just, no. You knew I liked it. He doesn't throw up and you just got through saying it doesn't bother you. You planned that before. You just said it doesn't bother you. I know, I lied. I changed my mind. I changed my mind. The lady changed her fucking mind. And you said it last week. You're like, doesn't bother me anymore.

You said this. I know. Well, then show me another barf clip and I'll watch it. I didn't like the in-between. I don't like the anticipation. Just show me someone puking or not. Fine. Show me someone else puking. I'll watch it. Why are so many guys on here obsessed with saying, just be gay? Like, why do I have to just label myself when the more gay things I do, the more I...

The more I want to eat clams. Young, nubile clams from the west coast of British Columbia. That is fucking vile. I love him. No, he's so free. Can you imagine being this free and this happy? I just love him. I love that he's so, he's just, he just is. He's everything. Will Blunderfeld. Taking a shit, like a gnarly shit while he talks about it. I guess everyone's saying just be gay, but is he not just being gay?

But you can't label him. But he is doing gay shit constantly. He's saying he's not gay? He doesn't want to label it as gay shit. That's the whole problem. It's just shit. It's dude shit is what he's trying to say. Okay. Maybe you should stop being so closed-minded and go visit him. Go on a retreat. Fine. Annie. Would you come on a retreat with Will? Oh, no. I would not.

Why? That's a big N-O, I'm afraid. How come? How come? Yeah. How come? Well, yeah. Nigga, the video. That video. That's why. Well, which one? He's just shitting. What do you mean, which? Any of them. You can pick any of his videos. Could you do it if you just went to... So this is what y'all talking about in the conference room before y'all came in? No, no. This is what y'all... Ooh, how could we get Andy to do some gay shit? No, no, no, no. Not to do gay shit. Not to do gay shit. Oh, okay. No, no. Would you just go on a retreat...

Hold on, hold on. Yeah, I'm waiting. Okay. Where you listen and you are participating to the level that you are comfortable with. No, no, I'm saying just like learning, listening, growing, participating, not doing gay shit. Uh-huh. So what shit are we doing? Well, you know. No, I don't.

Well, you're just learning, man. Nah, learning about what, dog? Learning about what? Is this an electrician course? What's he teaching me? Fucking trade skills and shit? Just to be, you know. To be more masculine. Yeah, masculine. How to be more masculine. How to harness your masculine energy or chi. And you don't have to do anything like nude unless you want to. Want to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I think I'm straight on this. I think I'm straight. I don't know what I could learn. Okay, wear boxers. Hold on. You wear boxers. I wear like 12 boxers. What do you mean? Okay, you wear multiple boxers. I'm wearing boxers, shorts, pants, joggers. And you just let the guru kind of guide you. This is crazy. Come on, man. Is this a real ask? Yeah. You're actually asking me this? We kind of are, actually. How did you think this was going to go? I'm so confused. Well, I thought that you would not want to. That's it. All right. That's what I'm saying.

But I do think there's a path to growth. How much money would you say would be at the end of this path? I mean, there would be a fee involved, obviously. There would be a fee? Yeah. How big is that fee? I mean, we could, you know. Let's say it on the show. Let's say it on the show. Everybody needs to know. Well, it's not going to, come on, we can't talk about it. This is not lottery stuff. I mean, it would be a fee.

What does that, what do you mean lottery stuff? What does that mean? Like, you can't just throw out some crazy fucking number to go to a retreat, you know? Yeah, I'm gonna do it like your mom. I'm gonna do it like your mom. I ain't gonna throw out a crazy number. We're gonna do this. What's your fee for going to a retreat? I'm thinking like 50K. 50K! Oh my God. Yep. To better yourself. This is for, it's for your benefit. Mm-hmm. Okay. You gotta come down from that. He's acting like... 49K. No, 49K.

He's acting like this isn't in his benefit. I know. You're going to learn so much, you're going to come back a more masculine man. Whoa. Come on, dude. You know what really made me look like a masculine man? What? That nice little rolly on this arm right here, or maybe two little rolls.

Two? Dang. That would make me feel real masculine. You know what, though? Or 50K in my hand. Any, by the way, you owe us because I hear that you're so fat that you've been breaking our chairs. Huh? Yeah. They say you broke the chairs in the conference room. You've been breaking chairs. You owe us. What is happening? Those chairs are ergonomic, $20,000 a piece. Yeah, maybe skip a few meals, man. Like, how much are you weighing now? I'm confused. I don't know what this is.

You broke chairs. You owe us. I broke chairs. You owe us is what I'm saying. I never broke a chair. Yes, you did in the conference room. They told us. What are you talking about? They all said that you broke the chairs. You are leaning back because you're so fat and you broke them. No, no, no. See, what they mean to say is that they're stupid and they don't know how to fucking use chairs. I didn't break shit. Let me push a button. I'll fix it right back up. If I got you a really nice watch, would you go on the retreat?

How expensive is this watch? If I were to take it to the nearest pawn shop. You're going to pawn it? No, don't pawn it. Don't do that. It's an asset. It's an asset? Yeah. It'll increase value over time. I'll get you a nice one. It'll appreciate in value. You don't want to sell it. But see, I'd rather just buy myself one. You know what I'm saying? Okay. Let's say, okay, how about, okay. All right.

I can't give you $40,000 to go on a retreat, man. Why not? It's insane. That's not insane. That is insane. This is an insane ask. To ask a black man to do some low-key gay shit. It ain't low-key gay. Okay, so you're right. Oh, so are the samurai all gay? Oh my God. That's true, Tom. Good point. Samurai ain't niggas. I'll tell you that. Jesus. All right, good answer. Now...

Wow. Come on, man. You think there's no gay blacks, black people in the world? Is that what you're trying to assert? How did you get this? The assertion is that black people can't be gay. That date just is nice. That is a nice one. Boy, I bet they'll look real nice on any wrist. Oh, my God. After his retreat, after he's built muscle and endurance and strength. Can you go ahead and copy paste that model into Google? Put shopping in there.

They got prices right there. What is that? $10,000? That's too low for you. A $10,000. That is ridiculous. Oh my God. I got to buy my mom a house, dog. What? I got to buy my mom a house somehow. Have better sex with Blue Chew. Blue Chew is the original brand offering chewable tablets. These erection enhancing tablets help men achieve stronger, harder, and longer lasting erections for sexual pleasure.

activities. BlueChew is putting its money where its mouth is and offering you a month free. The process is simple. You sign up at bluechew.com, consult with one of their licensed medical providers, and once you're approved, you'll receive your prescription within days. You can take them anytime, day or night.

So you can plan ahead or be ready whenever an opportunity arises. The best part, it's all done online. That means no visits to the doctor's office, no awkward conversations, and no waiting in line at the pharmacy. I love popping these things just to start the day, whether it's in the morning, coasting through the afternoon, or even in the evening. And I love being rock hard.

Make life easier by getting harder and discover your options at bluechew.com. We've got a special deal for our listeners. Try your first month of Blue Chew free. Visit bluechew.com for more details and important safety information. And we thank Blue Chew for sponsoring the podcast. This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep. Helix makes a great mattress. The great thing also is that Helix has an online test system.

questionnaire that helps you decide which is the best mattress for you. So you fill in your information and you get a recommendation that I guarantee you can count on. Look, sleep is the baseline guideline of how everything's going to go. It's so important. You need to be sleeping

better. You need better sleep. You need to sleep more comfortably. And you can't do that if you don't have a great mattress. It doesn't matter what you're looking for. I mean, if temperature is a big deal, they have a cooling mattress cover for your hot sleepers. They have extra memory foam padding for side sleepers. They have it all. So just pick the thing that's going to help you get the best sleep in the world. And that way you're the best version of you.

Sleep better. Go to helixsleep.com slash YMH for 20% off site-wide plus two free dream pillows with a mattress purchase. That's helixsleep.com slash YMH for 20% off site-wide plus two free dream pillows with a mattress purchase. Helix, H-E-L-I-X, sleep.com slash YMH. Okay, scroll down. Plus, you already owe me 10 from the basketball game, so. I owe you 10? Mm-hmm. I owe you $10,000? From the basketball game.

When he won against Ryan? Mm-hmm. I thought we were doing something else from that. No, we canceled it. We canceled it? Oh, my God. That's on you. How did we cancel it? You.

What do you mean? And he canceled it. He won hair plugs and then he changes his mind. We were going to fly you to Turkey to get your hair fixed. Oh yeah, you were all in on hair stuff. Yeah, and then you change your mind. That's not our fault. I mean, we could do that too. Yeah, but you can't back out and then change what you want after. We have to sign a contract. See... But you can't change your mind and then go, oh, but we owe you money instead. I didn't change my mind. We said...

We said, what did we say? We said 10K. We said 10Gs. And, yeah, and then Ryan accepted. What do you mean? Ryan accepted. Mm-hmm. And what happened there? We said he ended up, y'all ended up saying, oh, this is unreasonable. We shouldn't do that because, you know, that's not, what was it? That was not fair to me because what if I lost and, oh, it's too much, this and that. Oh, it was like a bet. Mm-hmm. I got you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying.

All right, I'm a little confused. I'm confused, too. But then I thought we ended up saying that the prize for any would be a trip to Turkey to get hair. Yes. That was what we agreed on. And then afterwards. And then we came in and he was like, I don't want to do that anymore. Then he changed his mind about what the prize was. I agree. It's very confusing. I'll tell you what. We'll settle all of it. $50,000. You can't. Sorry. It's just ridiculous. You know what? Forget it. We got to get you to go on this retreat, man. Please go on the retreat.

Please. What do you mean? I can't believe this is a serious ask. It's a serious ask. I can't believe this is a serious ask. Please. I mean, I'm saying please too. No, I know, but your please is unreasonable. You can't give you $50,000. Tom, which retreat are we doing? Is it Will's retreat? Yeah. Oh, you got to go do that. You see, it's like I don't even know if like...

I don't even know a 50K, like if I'm really going to do that. And then I get there and he's like, yeah, first thing you got to do, you just touch my dick a little bit. No, that's not his style. It's all voluntary. Whatever you do is voluntary. He is not going to force you to do things. Come on, dude. That's not how he is. I don't think he would do that. Just take one for the team and go. Take one for the team. For the sake of fun and self-growth. Come on, man.

I mean, I just don't understand why you would refuse this help. It's so good. Just do it. Can we say you'll do it? We cannot say it. This is crazy. Come on. Look at y'all pushing. Don't you like being part of the team? I love being part of the team. Well, then come on. Just do it. This is what it takes to be a part of the team. Yes. Well, this is how you're one of the leaders on the team. Yeah. What? You're a leader. I'm a leader. Yes. Mm-hmm.

All right, that's a yes. You're doing it. I did not say that. Okay, great. It's done. Let's say it's mostly settled. I did not say that. Yes. This is a conversation. I'm having a conversation. I didn't say yes. This is crazy. Okay, we'll revisit. But basically, he's pretty much going. He's psyched. Okay, so I'm excited for you. I'm excited, too. Here's the thing. I already have your prize for you for going. Hey, Blackman. How are you? It's freaking smooth. I love it, too.

And what kind of a person besides a snow bunny goes out in the snow in shorts? Anyways, I was just calling to tell you that if you get you a snow bunny...

We take care of your hair. We take care of your beard. We take care of getting reservations for food. We take care of... Stuff black guys struggle with. We take care of making snowman. Do you want to build a snowman? We take care of casserole dishes for the family parties. Nice. We take care of...

Hey, Blackman. There she is. You know what time it is? It's almost tax season. Time to get you a snow bunny. Because, you know, we got that bread. Is this like an appealing thing to you?

I mean, it's appealing to look at. I love watching this girl on Instagram, but I would never get with that, though. That bipolar crazy shit. She's crazy. Yeah, that's wild. Well, hold on. That mania, that's crazy. I thought boys liked crazy chicks because they really put out. Yes, boys. You're right. Boys. Oh, men are over. Crazy? Men understand the consequences that come with those. Oh, right. Yeah, the fatal attraction. It seems like you already went to Will's fucking retreat. You were talking like a grown man. Ah!

That's right. Yeah. That's right. And you know what? It's time. It's a new chapter in your life. It's time to expand your horizons and try new things. Yeah. It says here that she's married and has two kids. To a black man? Yeah. Oh, sweet. But why is she? I don't know. Listen. Yeah, that's mania. What better way to start your new year's out. She's slow. When they sell money.

That was spooky. She really loves Black Widow. Am I having a stroke or was that... She put it in slow-mo. You didn't... I was like...

Either I did too many micro doses in the last week or okay, okay, okay. Hey, can I, I think the new, remember what eyebrows were? Yeah. Eyebrows used to be the tell for crazy chicks. Yeah. The new eyebrows is eyelashes. Oh, eyelashes. The lash extensions that look like that. Eyebrows are still a pretty good indicator, but yeah. Yeah. If you shaved your eyebrows and penciled them on, your

You're crazy. And if you do eyelashes like this chunky extensions, you're absolutely insane. By the way, and this has been something I've been hearing a long time because Annie brought up the...

basketball game Ryan has been wanting to rematch Eni for a while this is ridiculous we're gonna do this again he wants to do it again no way Jose oh my god that's awesome well Ryan's in much better shape yeah it's this thing he's lost a lot of weight he's lost weight he's been working out he's been taking good care of himself yep

Damn. Could be. Yeah, that'd be cool, except no rematch. Sorry, buddy. One and done. One win. He's afraid. How about if Ryan wins, you go to the retreat?

What the? No. Why no? No. I'm already signing you up, dude. No. Yes. No. Yes. This is not going to. This has to happen. Thomas. Come on, Eni. Thomas. Are we not friends? This is not how. You see, this is how. Now I know how I sound when I do this to people. Okay. Now I know how this feels. I see. Okay. Well. This is not going to happen. All right. We're getting there. We're getting there.

I am sending a message to him. You are? Yes. Are you telling Ryan that he wants to go? That he wants to go, yes.

And he'd just do it. Come on. What happened? Have the people. You know what I'm saying? I think you need the retreat more than ever because you used to have this confidence. Remember when Annie was confident? Used to. And now you're just kind of like, oh, I don't want to challenge Ryan. I can't. I'm afraid. Like, I feel like your confidence is waning. You need this retreat more than you know. Damn, now you're just going to try to hurt my feelings? Well, you need to build yourself, your masculine energy back up. Yeah. Will can help you build that. Will can help you out.

You want to be a real fucking man like this guy? I got the opposite of Amazon. Zarks! Fuck, dude. Dude. Oh, yeah. Oh, fuck, dude. Oh, I'm angry. Wow, it didn't come out. It didn't come out. It didn't come out, yeah. That's why he's not in royal pain. He was...

You need alcohol to do that. He grips it. You can hear it clank against his teeth. Yeah, you need to be on drugs to do that to yourself. You need to be high on meth, opium. He needs Falcon Car Wash. He needs a little bit of Pepsi in a cup with some dog food on a knife. Dog food on a knife. He's like. Yeah, you need to be on drugs to do this. That's the problem. He's sober. Yeah, man. Damn. Yeah, man.

This is America, right? You dumb motherfucker. You better get it going, buddy. That's insanity. That's how you do it. Insanity. Here's a guy who looks pretty cool. This is, I think, maybe a holiday video. He's from the ATL, bro. He's from the ATL. Oh! Get this fuck out of here. Get out.

That guy's face is wrecked. Yeah. That fall? Yep. From the choke to the floor.

landing on your face. He just did it to himself. He totally did. Everything was to himself. That's the sad part. In slow motion. It wasn't even fast. They were like, get the fuck out of here. Now they're like, God damn it. This guy. He just died in our bar. He's just unconscious now on our floor. God damn it. I tell you, the nightlife business is a hard one. I've worked in bars. We tell jokes at night. I don't want anything to do with it. It's just, you're just dealing with chaos. All the time. The security you need. Drunk people are the worst to deal with.

Very, very sad. Very sad. What's up, fight fans? It's a new year, which means new matchups and all new action to keep you pumped up this weekend. Tune into the fights this weekend and don't forget to get in on the action with our partners at DraftKings Sportsbook. They are offering all new customers $200 in bonus bets instantly after betting just $5.

So don't wait. Download the DraftKings app now. Sign up using the code MOM, M-O-M. The crown is yours. Love the thrill of live betting? DraftKings has you covered with live markets like Fight to Go the Distance, making watching the fights even more exciting. If sports betting is not yet available in your state, don't worry. You can still join in on all the fun with DraftKings Daily Fantasy and have the shot to win cash only.

Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app now. New customers use my promo code MOM and bet just $5 on any wager and get $200 in bonus bets instantly. That's promo code MOM only at DraftKings Sportsbook. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. In New York, call 877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY

466-369-4667.

Cuffing season led to a new boo. Want some extra heat in the bedroom to fight off the winter chill? Keep the passion alive using the natural power of hemp with Vaya. Vaya has developed a unique blend of pleasure-enhancing cannabinoids, libido-strengthening herbs,

and a medium dose of THC all into one mind-blowing gummy called High Love. Vaya just dropped their High Love bundle, which includes a pack of gummies and a THC-A vape just in time for Valentine's Day. And the best part, Vaya legally ships to nearly all states in the United States in discreet packaging directly to your door with a worry-free guarantee. No medical card required. And I'm telling you, people are crazy.

fired up about this product. I mean, our very own Eni basically rambles on and on from the moment he gets to the office about what Vaya has done for him and his love life every second that he's here. If you're 21 and up, check out the link to Vaya in our description and use the code YMH to receive 15% off. And if you're new to Vaya, get a free gift of your choice. After you purchase, they've asked you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you.

This Valentine's Day, elevate your love life with Vaya. And the great Eladia Baldwin. Oh my God, she's back. We've had some, if you don't know, some other stuff in the past just to give you a refresher. Oh, she's so great.

Very few ingredients. We have tomatoes. We have, how do you say it in English? Cucumbers. Cucumbers. How do you say it in English? How do you say? Como se dice? So, there's been some questions about where I'm born. I'm born in Boston. So, and then I spent some of my childhood in Boston, some of my childhood in Spain. Got it. So, that's why she was like, I don't know how to say. How do you say? Do it, Tommy. Do her, because you do that. How do you say? How do you say?

I'm not going to say anything to you. You know that. So please...

Leave my family in peace and let this all play out. She talks like she was born in fucking Honduras or some shit. It's so funny. Her name is Hilaria Lynn Hayward Thomas. Hilarious. From Boston. Hillary, not Hilaria. Sorry, Hillary. Hillary Hills. From Boston. She is of English, French, Canadian, German, Irish, and Slovak descent. She says she was raised in a Spanish-speaking household and traveled to Spain annually. Okay.

She also said she began to use the name Eladia as she got older. So anyway...

Please. It's not good for my children. Please. But why are you photographing me and my children? Here's the newest one. Oh, my God. Can you please explain what your... I mean, I don't know what that one is, but I can tell you that my tortilla is... Potatoes, you have to not cut them too tiny because they're not going to have the right texture. And then...

My husband hates cebolla. Onions. I forgot it. Cebolla. Cebolla. So he hates cebolla. And so I grind cebolla and asshole. And asshole. What does she grind? My husband hates, what's the word for cebolla? Onions. How you say. How you say. She's like how my mom talks. Oh, I know.

That's how my mom talks. Yes. Who learned English at 31. Yeah. She's claiming to forget her native tongue. It is so fun. How you say? How do you say? I make this tortilla here. And my husband. How you say? I forget. I forget it. How do you say? My first language. My first language. How you say in English? How do you say?

What? And she also has that baby voice, like that highly voice. If you're, listen, if you've been sexually assaulted, no, it's true. That's why all the girls in porn, they have high register. It's a sign of assault. Just lower the register in your voice and you'll sound way more intelligent. No, listen, it's a true story. I believe it was Margaret Thatcher when she started working in parliament, had a vocal coach to bring her voice up.

A few octaves, because it's not pleasant to listen to it up here. Yeah. It's not pleasant. Well, you feel like you're listening to a kid. You're listening to a little girl. If you want to listen to an authority, you want the authority to have a deeper register. Like you, you got that gravel. Well, yeah, just talk like you mean business, right? Doing a lot of things out there. Guys, I've been thinking. I've been thinking.

Hey, you want to know something? Go on to the UK soon. Oh, that's right, love. Yeah. Thatcher, first fucking things first. As the Prime Minister. Hire taxes. We are going to the UK. Oh, no, I can't fucking wait, mate. I have a tour. I'm so excited. Some of it is outside of the UK, but it's still in the region. I'll be going to Dublin, Glasgow, London, Manchester, Birmingham, Cardiff.

Am I forgetting one? I don't remember. Bam, Cardiff, where else? Wales. No, that isn't Cardiff. Cardiff is Wales. Is it Birmingham? Bam is Birmingham. That's outside of London. It's all down in March. Let's see. I'm so excited. Belfast. Oh, Belfast. I forgot Belfast. Glasgow. Oh, Nottingham. Nottingham. Nottingham. That's exciting, mate. Wembley.

He's doing the Wembley. Yep. It's all very exciting. This is so rad. I can't wait to come. We're going to have the greatest family vacay. It'll be fun. Oi. Oi. What? No, you got to practice your cool British accent. Nai. Nai. Nai is Australian. Nai. I know. They were, uh, you know that that was a thing last night at bottom of the barrel. Well, one of the things was like how Australians say no. Yeah. And then there was an Australian guy in the audience that we made him speak.

Did he say it? He was like, no. I was like, you're not fucking doing it right. He was like, no. We're like, say water. He was like, water. And we were like, that's, I get it. We were kind of come up with things that for him to say that we would be lost on. It was very fun. Well, I can't wait for you to do your Cockney accent in England and tell people you love them and happy birthday. Happy birthday. It's your birthday. Yeah.

Especially when you tip people. It's your birthday. It's your birthday. Happy birthday. It's stupid. Evening, governor. Hello. It's your birthday. Oh, this is some serious news. What do you say? We have to switch to something serious. On Jonians? This is serious, if you don't mind. Oh, I'm sorry. Please. Could you get serious for a second? I'm sorry. Not everything's a fucking joke. Okay. Go ahead. So in one of the great crimes...

of modern times. This has yet again happened.

I have been misgendered three times in the past 24 hours at restaurants. Last night, I was at Benihana with my girlfriend and the server said, what about you, sir? What would you like to eat? My girlfriend, God bless her heart, steps in, says, actually, that's ma'am. And she looks at my girlfriend and didn't really understand what had happened and said, no, I'm talking to him, pointing at me. Our jaws were on the floor. Me too. And we decided to leave because it was just a bad bye-bye.

And just a few minutes ago, I was at another restaurant for lunch and they showed me my seat and said, here you go, sir. And I said, I am not a sir. Yeah. So fucking crazy that this keeps happening. I'll tell you why it keeps happening. It's because you look like a guy.

And you talk like a guy. Yeah. So if you want people to fucking start calling you ma'am, start looking like one. I know. You're not putting in enough effort, fuckface. No. You gotta fucking try harder. There's a reason that everyone keeps doing this to you. It's because your level of effort sucks. Step it up.

You have a masculine fucking face. I know. Go get some surgery, wear a prettier dress, get better hair, and start talking in a higher voice. Like Hilaria. Yeah. Also, maybe not wear a bark collar out in the world. I thought that was a voice adapter changer. I wish. Just a microphone. Now, it's a microphone. It looks like that collar you put on your dog so it doesn't bark when people ring the doorbell. How cool is that?

I don't know how you can get mad at this fucking clown. He's been all crazy. So upset with people constantly misgendering me. And you know who he gets mad at? The bus boys. Like people that have no, you don't care. Yeah. Sweet fucking El Salvadorian person pouring water. He's like, yes, sir. He's like, for fuck's sake. It's just like a nice little immigrant guy. Yes.

I'll tell you what, too. It's I really do wish in another life if I could open up a shop to consult trans women, like help these dudes actually look like women. I would love to do that. And then I left because I wasn't comfortable anymore. And I went to a new restaurant and I asked before I sit down, where's the bathroom, please? And they said, oh, it's right this way, sir.

And I just left because I wasn't comfortable. So you're just going to keep leaving every place. If you're a server in the food industry, you don't need to use words like sir or ma'am. There are ways to be respectful without using those words. And if you get it wrong for someone like me, I will probably leave the restaurant. And it puts like a bad vibe on my day when it happens, especially when it happens three times in a row. Yeah, but this is fair to say also, this person is mentally ill. This is a complete lunatic. Yeah.

Like after seeing a series of these videos, you're like, okay. Well, I think this is all a charade. It's a charade. And it's all about picking fights. It's like this person's waiting to be called out and then get mad on TikTok. Like, just relax. And he's waiting to go in with his fucking dog collar. Yeah. Well, his dog collar and his dock worker face and going like, hey, how come no one's like, excuse me, miss?

Because no one sees it. And then you're just going to be like, I'm going to keep going into places. It's like the definition of insanity. It is. It is. And I think this person lives in San Francisco, I want to say, which is a very open, lenient, trans-friendly town. I mean, there's nothing but trans. And it just goes all the way back to your level of effort. You're just not trying hard enough. No, you should try harder. You definitely need to get your face shit done, taken care of.

Yeah, his face is still very masculine. It's not passing. See my wild side. I show everything. Oh, that's why he's doing this. But including a cock, which also belongs to men. Watch me jack off with my feminine dick. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, come on. Now the gig is up. We know what you're doing. Yeah, this is all. You're just directing traffic to the OnlyFans, huh? Got it. Got it. You know, this makes me mad. You're not the only one that's going to have a hot OnlyFans. Charo is getting closer to getting going, and the fans are still ready and asking for it. What's up, everybody? This is a message for Charo. What's up, everybody?

Getting on only things, girl. You know what we want to hear. I love this. I love this dude. That shift was really fucking scary. Yeah. That was terrifying. Let's watch it again. Yeah, that was so scary. What's everybody? This is a message for Charo. Getting on only things, girl.

You know what we want here? Yeah. Oh, it was amazing. It was great. And by the way, he's got the cool guy angle. Yeah. He's got the audio. I like it. He's got music playing. It looks like he's cooking or something or painting. He's got an apron on. Mm-hmm.

Hey, Hitlers. Brandon from Ohio. Just wanted to weigh in on the Charo OnlyFans debacle. Big time yes. Yes, yes, yes. The people want to see it. The people need to see it. It's riveting. It's exciting. It's new. I'd pay $15 a month. Wow. Let's get Charo on OnlyFans. Yes. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much for that. Wow. That was great.

Hey Charlie, this is Luted Yes from Scotland telling you to get your arse in gear and get that OnlyFans made. Let it rip! Yes. Thank you. This guy's awesome. There's excitement around this. Yep. And I think we're going to get her in here soon. We're going to show her these and I hopefully think we can get a page going. She's getting ready. She's getting ready. She's getting her Botox today. That's right. Yeah, I'm taking her to get her face. Yeah, I got a cool phone call. What happened?

She was like, I'm on my way to do this thing. And I go, okay. I'm driving. She's like, how do I pay for this? Oh, my God. Which is basically like, how are you going to pay for this? And I was like, I don't know. I'll reimburse you. And she's like, yeah, I think I have a checkbook. I go, you're going to bring a checkbook? A check. God, you really are old as shit. I know. Anyway. She wants you to pay for it? I got her a ride today. I gave her a ride. You took her? I didn't take her, but I got somebody to drive her. You hired someone to drive her.

So she's shaking me down for the ride and now she's shaking you down for the money. This is crazy. She's not destitute. She is not poor. At all. At all. I can't believe she just shakes us down for everything. Everything. I can't believe she just did it to me now. She's shaking me down.

Yesterday it was, can I have a bag? Yeah. You have so many bags. Ask me for a bag. So this is like luggage, right? And I do have a lot of luggage. Yeah. Years of so much traveling. So I was like, okay, give me this backpack. I'm like, no, I just bought this backpack. Well, give it to me. I'm like, no. And so then she goes, don't you have something? Something I can have? So I fucking emptied a bag and I go here.

And I gave her a bag. And I go, I don't think you're going to want to take this. Why? I go, because it's empty right now. When it's full, it's a duffel. You're not going to want to throw it over your shoulder, you know? Of course. No, it's fine. And then in the car, I'm like, I really think you're not going to like that unless it's full of your stuff. You are right. I go, yeah.

she goes so you have another bag i go yeah i have a roller bag i'll give you a roller bag because you're not going to want to lug one over your shoulder no you are right when can i have the roller i'm like the next time you come over

Unbelievable. She wants everything and she wants it right now. She should pair up with the fucking misgendered person. I know. I feel like they would be a good match. Go cry. You know what we should do? I was thinking, because every time she sees what I have, she wants it. She wants my handbag. She gets in my car yesterday and she's like, oh, what do I have to do to get this bag? And I go, nothing. You can't have this. Yeah. Here's what we should do. What?

Let's go to the 99 cent store. Yeah. And just buy a bunch of shit. A bunch of bullshit. And wrap every single thing. So when she comes over, we're like, we got you something. It's like a toddler. Yeah. So she can feel like she unwrapped a gift. Yeah. Are you retarded? Yeah. So retarded. Yeah, she is. Any. You.

You really need to take a shit. I know you're black and you guys do your own thing, but you still have to shit. Thank you, Charo. Yep. That's very true. Thank you for the reminder. All right, let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. And we are back. You know our guest perhaps from HLN, maybe CNN, and she's also the author of Down the Hill, My Descent into the Double Murder in Delphi. It's Susan Hendricks, everybody. Yeah, good to see you.

Thank you for coming. I'm so excited to be here. We're very excited. Me in particular. He's been erect all day just thinking about talking about murders with you. I mean, you know that most of our...

Television consumption is basically her just saying, literally every night when I get into bed, she goes, are you going to watch a murder? And she's like, I'm going to go to bed as you watch a murder. No, no, no. I go, what are you going to watch? Genocide, murder, serial killers, kidnapping. What awful thing are you going to watch? And then she drifts off as I dive into a new story. Well, they're captivating. They bring you in. Thank you for doing this. Because one of the reasons is that she also is like, you know, you're a sick person. Yeah.

Like she'll say this to me, right? She's like, you're sick. Something's wrong with you. Why are you watching this? Before sleep. What are you filling your head with? And then I also would be like, hey, you realize this is the number one show trending right now? Like she thinks, I'm like, you think they produce this for me? Like there's a lot of people watching this.

Let me tell you, we watched that documentary the other night and I couldn't sleep for two, what was it called again? You're talking about Lover, Killer, Mother, Stalker. Lover, Stalker, Killer. And I couldn't sleep for hours. I was so upset. I felt traumatized. I felt sick to my stomach. Now, how is it that...

How do you live with this stuff? I was watching an episode. You guys know I'm so excited to be here again. I'm a huge fan. You guys got me through COVID. Thank you. I would come back and from the numbers ticking up at CNN and it's like fight or flight constantly. And I'd come home and I listened to Sebastian and P. Correale, you guys. And now my algorithm is that's all I listen to is you guys. Good.

But, right, my sister would say, oh, I fall asleep to forensic files. Oh, my God. And when covering the story out of Delphi, it was two young girls murdered in the middle of the day, and I was sent there by CNN. I didn't know about the story much about it, just that the 14-year-old Libby was able to hit record on her cell phone, and they got this kind of, the guy on this abandoned bridge in the woods. I used to play outside. It was Gen X. That's what you did, come home when the lights go on.

It was a day off from school. They were down there and it was secluded. And she was able to, he was a blurry version because he was far away, but they got his voice saying guys down the hill. So I was sent here. I met the families normally with the news cycle when I'm in studio teleprompter story, you know, the A block, the B block, it's very formulaic. So you care, but you're, you're onto the next, the next, the next. Well, this one, I was in their kitchen. I had spaghetti with the families. I saw their rooms and I went,

Oh, my. I saw the bridge, and they were looking for the guy. Fast forward, I really got to know them well, especially Libby's family. And every family deals with it differently. And Libby's family was very open. They were speaking at CrimeCon, holding up a sketch, like, we need help finding this guy. And I think that was their focus, to get them through. And Mike, Libby's grandfather, was there. And he would say, come to the meet and greet.

And I said, it's inappropriate. I shouldn't be here. I'm not part of it. He said, come. And he kicked me under the table because...

in a nice way, but say, you have to be here. These women would show up and cry. They're waiting in line. They care. So I think what I found out through this whole community is the connection. So at CrimeCon, it's either people who have literally gone through it. I interviewed BTK's daughter, Carrie Rawson, on stage because I met her through Kelsey's sister. Who was that like? Well, she said, I trust you, Susan. I gave Carrie your name. I said, okay. She just wrote a book. I said, that's fine.

And I met her and she's amazing and she's shaking backstage. And she said, I'm nervous. People don't like me. They say that I look like my father. And I'm so glad that this family is nice to me because I'm on the other side. And I said, what other side? There's no other. You didn't do this. It was your father. She said, I had no clue, Susan. He'd make me scrambled eggs. He'd say, fill up your tires before driving back to college. Walked her down the aisle. And that, to me, I got that. It's part of the fascination. Like, what? Wait a minute. What? Because...

The Mansons look like man. Yeah, you understand. The father. And with this, it ended up being a guy, CVS. Father. He walked his daughter down the aisle at CVS when the aunt of one of the girls walked in crying for the funeral and said, develop...

a picture for her. He said, it's on me. It was him. He looks normal. We think that they're not going to look normal. Well, that's part of the fascination, right? Is that, first of all, I think you just, these are behaviors that all extreme violence is accessible to everyone. In other words, everyone has thought, God, I want to kill this person. I'm so mad. I want to hit this person. But you always, you stop yourself, right? Like you want to, you're, you're so angry. And so the fact that somebody, uh,

is capable of doing that, I think is part of the fascination that somebody crosses the line, right? And then there's the story aspects to this because they're fascinating. Like how did the person go about doing this horrible thing? And then to get away with it. And then how did we piece together

the investigation to catch the person. So that whole arc, I think, is why these stories never get old. It's just always, you're like, how did this happen? How can somebody do this? And then how do you catch them? And I have an eight-year-old son, and I interviewed Ann Burgess. I'm like, is it nature or nurture? Like, what is it? Can you raise a murder? Like, what is it? She's like, well, that's the question that everyone asks, but it usually is. Not always, but there's abuse there. We all want to compartmentalize to be like, why?

And the why is never like a, oh, okay, I get it. I get it. So he was 44 years old when he went down there and he said...

When I first walked into this trial, because I had seen him when they finally made an arrest, and he looked back at me, and he didn't take his eyes off me first. And I went, like, because you know how you normally do that? And I go, what's going on? This was a hearing before the trial. And Tara, Libby's aunt, said to me, oh, he always does this. He glares at us, and he would look at me like this. The guy's like 5'4", and I'm like, what? 44 years old, wakes up one day and decides to...

murder someone but i've gotten to know paul holes who solved the golden state killer case and he's like susan you can have sick fantasies about this for years and never act on that golden state case is what is that just tell me to to remind me oh my god it was originally um scared the person because it happened from the 70s and it was an ex-cop but it was called uh the

Yeah, he started with break-ins. So what he would do is just break into homes, ransack them. He was like, robberies, you know? And then it escalated to assaults and then to murders. And he did it, I mean, his numbers were actually off the charts. Sadistic. It was off the charts with how many people, the murders are obviously the highlight, but if you know how many people he actually broke into homes and killed.

assaulted even before that, it was like triple digits. And this is before, of course, cell phones like with this guy who got caught, Richard Allen.

He didn't bring a cell phone down there, but it's kind of like you're able to see his car pass a certain building, even though the town was less than 3,000 people, which I think it hurt him. 120 burglars. Jesus. Over years. And no one suspected he was an ex-cop. But what he would do, he'd tie up the husband, have him watch and put like a crystal cup on his back and say, if I hear this, smash, you're all dead. And he killed, I mean, countless people, of course. And finally, Paul said to me, Susan...

I had to look out for this. I put everything that aligned with what I thought. I would say, okay, I think I got the guy. And he said, and everything that didn't, I'd kind of push away. And he said, I had to be very careful about that.

Because it turned out that because the DNA came back, it wasn't the guy I thought it was. He pulled in front of his house, and Paul Hull has the most amazing book. And he thought, I'm going to go in. This is him. I know it's him. And he goes, thank God I didn't, like, what he fantasized about going in. And the first page of Paul Hull's book, he said he was so devoted, and he said...

He was at this strip club and he thought to himself, he would see the young girl. He was with a bunch of guys and he'd say, I'd see her in like an autopsy table. And he's like, I'm going crazy. He's like, what the fuck am I doing? I'm going crazy. And he said he felt more comfortable though at an autopsy than a cocktail party. It ruined his life.

It ruined marriages. But he's good at it. I know. But he'd look at a scene and say, swab the foot, like he has a way of solving it. Yeah. Sorry. No, the story was just unbelievable. I mean, the HBO series, they had a series on it about...

Michelle McNamara. That's right. That's Pat Narswell. Married to that actor. Yes. And she was obsessed with the case. Obsessed. Died during. Yeah. And it was, yeah, it is one of the most incredible stories. If it wasn't for Michelle McNamara, and Paul Hulse points this out all the time, it wouldn't have been solved. Yeah. She became kind of a- She was like the driving force of this thing. Yes. Like an armchair detective, so to speak. And really kind of dug into it and was taking things to sleep at night and then-

It ended up accidentally killing her. The prescription mixed with something and...

Sometimes I have my sister call, don't get too much into crimes. Michelle McNamara died. Like, you can't. You have to separate this. And my mom would say, can't you tell them you have kids now? No more murders. I'm like, mom, I can't go into CNN. I'm like, excuse me. Excuse me. No more murders. Well, that's what I was going to ask you too, Susan. This guy also just, by the way, was married, kids, grandkids. Of course. They all have a profile of being a normal human. Don't trust your neighbors. You don't know. Do you ever get afraid of?

of retaliation? I do, but I think that I'm very skilled at compartmentalization. I don't know if that's a good thing. I'm able to tell other people's stories and focus on that. I don't get afraid, but my son the other day is in second grade. He goes, Mom,

He's just so sweet. So there was a mom today at reading and she writes poetry with my friend's mom. And I said to him, I'm like, my mom writes books. What kind of books? He goes, don't tell anybody. Murder. And my mom goes, well, at least he said don't tell anybody. I'm like, the Catholic way. But I told that to Nancy Grace. I'm like, I swear he's a therapy. He's going to be a therapist.

And then I, when, when I decided to write this and it's, it's different because no one was caught at the time. I just got to know the families and I thought there's something there about their perspective. And growing up, I digress back to New Jersey. I think I was like 10 or 11. Our cousin, the key family is like four very pretty girls. And the dad worked in local politics. So did my dad and the brother. And she was murdered. And I,

I heard my parents talk about it, like on the landline. And we heard rumors like, was it a drug dealer in New Brunswick, New Jersey? No one ever talked about it. And we didn't. And our friend, whose sisters were friends with Kathy Keith, said it was a drug deal and it was this. So finally, when I was writing this, I mentioned it and I said to my dad, Dad, what happened?

And he goes, oh, it was her boyfriend. I went, what do you mean boyfriend? I thought it was a drug dealer. He goes, well, they were doing drugs, but it wasn't a drug dealer. I'm like, why didn't you tell us? He's like, when am I going to tell my teenage girls about that? So I did call the sister and say, can I mention this? And it was, there was a newspaper article that I found, um,

And it's funny because it says like the headline of this. And when I, the editor, Hachette, said more of this. But if the sister said I don't want to talk about it, I wouldn't have. And it was more like the headline was like dead woman is daughter of official. Did they get preferential treatment?

Which was like the headline. But anyway, so I thought, is that why? I don't know why. But anyway, I think it's about the draw to it is...

people want to understand why and i feel like they can they think that they could help maybe i'm not sure do you did you find that i mean obviously this this title is very telling my descent into this that you became obsessed with this then did you become oh i did yeah yeah yeah because i was used to being on set and there's a teleprompter in their stories and you just move on i did anderson show at night and i you move on you and you're good at moving on

And then I got to know them too well. And I would just start crying for no reason. And then the pandemic hit. And my sister's like, I think you're too involved. I'm like, I'm not too involved. I just...

And I get criticized, like we all do online, I guess. But it's like, she's not a journalist. Who does she think she is? She's too nice to the local cops. They were – I really like the local authorities. But I found out my cousin, Kevin Hendricks, who's 10 years younger than me. I still look at him as a kid. He's in the FBI. And I said, what do you – can you look into this? Like, what's going on? There's tips and tricks.

it's a town of less than 3000 people. It's like, but I think that was a deterrent. You would think, Oh, it's Jim. No, you don't think it's the guy who you like, who, who you see in town. So, um, um,

He's like, okay, I'm going to write you back like this and don't look at this and open this as this. And I thought, I'm going to see stuff. This is two years before and around. And he goes, oh, forget it. I go, what? He goes, they shut the FBI out. They kicked them out. Because when someone's missing, the FBI is automatically invited in. The girls were missing. When their bodies were found, they have to be invited in. And guess what they gave them? The tip line. Nothing. The ego. So you think you see it in the movies? Ego plays a role, yeah.

Wait, now why do you think, because you have, I'm sure, a very clear perspective on this, why do you think these stories and this genre in particular appeals to women so much? That's such a good point or a good question. And I've wondered that too. And Kevin Balfe, who puts on CrimeCon, I've asked him that. And it's a funny story. Him and his brother own Red Seat Ventures and Nancy Grace came to them after HLN and said it.

It was kind of a podcast of Brola. And he said, oh, let's go to the crime conventions. And there were none. And he said, so we started one. He's like, it could have been a colossal failure. He goes, I didn't know. I wasn't really. He said, but what I found is that women either want to know

And I've heard this said in kind of a joking manner. Like women, when they go on a date, if they don't know that they're worried, they're going to get killed. Like women want to be armed with the information. So I don't know if it's that, but the Scott Peterson, I think it's the person who doesn't look like a killer. And so you're like, wait a minute, that guy could, and Chris Watts, the most horrific. It's like, he looks normal. Who's Chris Watts? The one. Oh,

horrible. He looks totally normie. Killed his two little girls and the wife. And the wife. It got so bad and I'm good at staying at this level on the air. Well, that day it was the hearing where the prosecutor, I think he did this on purpose, explained everything he did to those girls. And I was with guys I'm usually with, contributors. This was Joey Jackson, an attorney, and my eyes were watering. And I looked at him and he goes, I got it. So we kept talking. It was horrible.

Horrific. Because usually it is the husband, correct, that kills children. I want to tell future husbands, if you're thinking about doing this, you get caught. It's the guy. They always get caught. But what about those anomaly cases like the JonBenet Ramseys or Madeline McCann? Yeah. Or they're like, oh, it's not the parents. I mean...

And usually, and even in the Delphi case, these internet, the thing I love about YouTube, and I was able to find you guys and podcasts, everyone has a voice, but the bad news is everyone has a voice. So some people could go on there and blame the families that have nothing to do with it. I think with murder and abuse of kids, it usually happens inside the house of its family.

outside the house when they're on a bridge. It's not going to be, you're going to be like, dad, if they're walking towards you. It depends who you ask. With Maddie McCann, I never ever thought, because I covered that, but not as extensive as others. I never met the parents, but I always thought like something happened. And it's funny. I stayed at a hotel with my husband. I'm like, nobody leave this room. I'm a little nuts now. A lot nuts because I'm like,

didn't you see the Mad Amagam thing? You think of everything that could happen. And he's like, we have a sitter. There's a sitter there. I'm like, should we not bring the kids? So you always think of the worst case scenario. But there are people out there who said,

Maybe it was an accidental death and the parents covered up. But you can find anything that you believe. That whole cover up and maybe, you know, you can't help but think about the JonBenet case because it's, you know, the other thing is, as I mentioned this in some of the other

uh stories like even the menendez story is that you know you're alive during it but but you you kind of you're like oh yeah the guys that killed their parents and then you watch the documentary again and you're like oh shit i don't remember any of this or i didn't know any of this and the jean benet documentary was a real really informative and also a big time refresher because i was like you know i remember the story i even when you're young and you're young and you're like

I remember that when it started, I was like, oh yeah, so who ended up being arrested for that again? That's how I, and I was like, oh right, they never really got anybody. I go back and forth on Jean Benet at first. I never, I've met the dad at CrimeCon and a nice man. And I was in the green room with him and he said, you know, Susan, I think I'm fighting for that. Like in Delphi, I want the FBI to be, to stay in certain jurisdictions. And I said, I understand that.

And at first, I wasn't clear about what happened or I didn't have a thought. And then I read a book on it and I thought, ooh, could it have been the son? And, you know, parents would... Because you're not...

I thought about it. I wouldn't stick up for my husband if he did this, ever. But if my daughter acts in it, would I stick up for the kids? So that's where my head went. But I don't know if we'll ever know. The note was odd. The note's so odd. So what do you think of the note? There's so many odd things. The placement. Well, first of all, her being in the home, the access to that home through that window. The note is beyond perfect.

peculiar. But also seeing, okay, take the father aside, seeing how I believed how distraught this mother was. And it was, it just didn't register to me like that. She was just being like, I got you to him on this. It's very peculiar. I don't think we'll ever know, but I think something happened inside of that house.

And I don't think we'll ever know what it is. I really don't. And it's horrible that Patsy passed away and that, you know, wouldn't you know if there were suspicion on you just kind of go away? He's still at CrimeCon. He's still out there. He wants it tested. He even came out and said recently, look, I think that, I know what you're going to say. What? That...

I think here's what I think. OK, you know, when the mind is very powerful and I'm not accusing anybody of anything, you know what I mean? But let's just say I did something terrible and I could convince myself that I'm innocent and I might believe that lie so much. I might go to church every day just to show other people how innocent I am. I might try to absolve myself of the sin.

By overcompensating. Someone find my daughter. Someone find my husband. I love Tom Segura so much. Before I came on here, I said I was going to talk about this. She's CSI. And I said, what do you think? Tell me. I won't quote you. She just quote me. Well, there's people, a lot of people are doing what she said, which is, you know, when they go, all right, we'll submit for this. And they go, sure. I'll give you my DNA. And then the DNA is a match, you know, that there is DNA, some DNA in this case as well, that isn't a match.

for the father. Right. And I think it depends on what documentary you watch because my sister just watched one that John was leading, right? And so she said, there's no way. She said, Burke reminds me of Jack, my son's Jackie's age. There's no way he's going to

kill, I said, well, what if it was accidental? And then they covered up. And she's like, I just think it's not true. And I'm not saying, I feel bad. If John, if he is innocent and think of the life and the hell he went through, but it's just bizarre to know that there's too many things. I don't know. It's so bizarre. So bizarre. But you're right about that. So Cheryl McCollum is her name. She works for Nancy Grace. She's the most amazing person. I love her. And she's like, Susan, this is Cheryl. She said,

If I was looking for Caroline, her daughter, would I say a founder? Or would I say, like, just that she picks up on things that I don't. Like, and then there she was. Wouldn't you say, oh, my God, there's my son. Like, but then I think back to, like, do we put ourselves in that situation and think, how would we react? But the truth is, the Chris Watts, the Scott Peterson, they don't act right. They don't act right.

They don't act right. And the dad, when he carried JonBenet's body, which I found on TikTok. And invited all the friends over. And invited the friends over. And then now that carries JonBenet's body out like this. Now, if you find your dead child, I would cradle. I don't give a fuck what evidence. This is not the way you carry the child you just found murdered on the floor.

I would be to my body looking for life and holding it. I don't even hold my fucking dog, my cat like that. Right, and you put yourself in the shoes. And yes, there have been situations where people have been accused and they didn't do it because we always think, oh, it's the closest too. But in the Delphi case, the grandfather, Mike, I say grandfather, he's like in the 60s, he's like, check me out, test me. I know they go to family first. Yeah.

But with JonBenet, I think the fascination was. And I remember, same thing as you mentioned, Tom, with the Menendez brothers. Even, I knew them. One of them, Lyle, went to high school with my sister at Princeton Day School. I went to East Brunswick Tennis Club with them. And we knew the tennis pro, Merrick. And it's funny because my dad remembers this. They stopped by. It was him and Lyle, the older one. And we weren't home. I was 14. I probably should have been hanging out with a 19-year-old tennis guy. Right? Right.

But so they stopped by. We weren't there. And Merrick used to say to me, you know, Susie, you got to meet this Lyle. He's crazy. He'd pull up to Newark Airport in a Porsche and just leave it. And that's where he parked. Oh, my God. He'd pay for the towing. So when it came out on People magazine and going to high school in Princeton, Chuck's was right near us. We ate there all the time, the restaurant they bought. Just like you said, you don't think about it. Thank God murder wasn't my business at 17. I'm like, oh, really? They kill for money and then you move on.

But now that I think about it, they had access to all the money anyway. You don't kill your parents for an extra couple million. Was the shopping spree. I asked Ann Burgess. She testified in the first trial and she said they had access. That was like a way of saying you're gone.

And, oh, I also interviewed one of the jurors, Hazel Thornton, from the first trial. She said to me, Susan, I'm like, tell me what it's like when you go back and you're talking. It's divide. And remember, 90s. Men against women. Men were like, no way would a father abuse their kids sexually. It just doesn't happen. Boys. And are they gay? No.

That's what the members. And the women are like, not to say, let them walk there. It's a horrific crime. You saw. Yeah. But they were saying manslaughter. They'd be out by now. So that's the argument. Hazel has said to me, I've been on with her and she's like, Susan, I'm not saying they should have walked. No one's saying that. But 35 years is enough.

And considering the horrific abuse. And the DA, Gil Garcetti at the time, just lost OJ. So he's like, we can't... A lot of this is political. We can't lose this. No abuse is allowed in the second trial. One of the most telling things was that in the documentary that came out recently about them, that the prosecutor... And prosecutors are always like, fucking lock this piece of shit up. She's a spitfire. She's a real spitfire. And she goes...

The day, that's the woman right there. Where is she? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. She goes, the day that that guy died, the father, she goes, the world became a better place. Ah.

So for the prosecutor to say that, you know, she was like, this guy, she goes, I couldn't find one character witness for the father. Not one. Not even one he paid. None. Think about how much money he had. No one. He must have been just a real fucking horrible guy. Well, they have 20 family members, even on his side, who say, let these guys out. Like, that's why I believe. But when I was watching that, I remember being young and watching that and being like, ooh, I don't know about the sweaters. Like, the...

And I don't think as a society we could wrap our brains around that that would happen. No, because I remember growing up and thinking like, oh, those two douchebags killed her. Me too. Because you don't think about that context for sure. You don't think about it. But you shouldn't kill your mommy and daddy. Ever. I mean, there's a lot of people are abused, but geez louise. No, absolutely. But they paid their debt to society. I see what you're saying 100% because my mom says that. Why do you have to talk about the bananas all the time? And she goes, and they shot the bananas.

And I said, I know, Mom, but I said, I don't want to get into details. But if you watch the documentary about Menudo, and nothing against that industry back then, but now that we know what we know, what did he have access to and how evil was it? But I think...

when they went to reload and shoot the mom. There's a lot of hatred in there. Rage. Rage, rage. But I do think that they paid their debt to society. I truly believe that. And all of their family members. If they were even, you know, the father's family members, that's interesting that nobody liked the guy. Not one. She goes, that's the reason, she goes, we couldn't even have a character witness brought to,

to the trial because we couldn't find one. I think people think money equals problem solved and therefore, why would anyone with money do that? It hides a lot of things, I think. And I even think with the Ramseys, like, people are like, oh no, that wouldn't happen. Look at the facade. Like, look at the way they look in their house and the, you know, I think that, and I do that, I fall into that of like, well, they don't look like they should look. They don't look like Manson. Right.

What could possibly be wrong? But I think secrets are held tight inside of houses and you never know. And that's part of the crime obsession. You're watching, you're like, 20, why would anyone? It's all the questions. You have unanswered questions, of course. And I don't know if we ever hear a why and go, oh, that makes sense. But that's like the, you know, this is like the, it's the reason why

Hitchcock became a phenomenon. It's like you go, this thing happened and then you want to piece it together. Everyone wants to piece things together. You want an explanation. You want the answer at the end. And every time a crime occurs, it's a new question. And you go like, what? And it's what I found. So the trial of Richard Allen and Delphi, there are, it's a business. And so I saw ABC.

NBC, they're swarming. They're swarming. And like, who's getting exclusives? And do you know the family? And can you get the, the, the, the, and it's, it's. And you guys all end up competing too, because Netflix puts out the doc and then all of a sudden there's a Dateline special. And then there's a CNN, like everybody has to do their story on it. I think you guys who paved the way it's true. Last night, I didn't realize how long you guys have been doing this, but you really did pave the way of different media and,

And what I love about you guys is people kind of

talk about their feelings and talk about who they are. And at CNN, it's like teleprompter and anchor hair. And it's funny, Mr. Ball and I met with him about his charity. And I said, can I even say this? Fuck. And he goes, I love that you said fuck. He goes, you have anchor hair, but we love you. So it made me laugh. I'm like, that's because of you guys at CNN. I'd be like pulled off. But my point is, I think that you allow conversations to happen. And that's why I really love you guys because it's authentic.

And at CNN, I remember producers in my years like Susan, I said, you're

You're kind of funny. We like the commercial break, Susan. I'm like, but I can't do the commercial break, Susan. It's like three, two, one. Sure. Pretend to be normal. Coming up tomorrow with the anchor voice. So I digress, but you guys allow for those conversations to happen. Well, that's nice. And I forget your question. No, that's fine. I want to ask you this. The gays are going nuts for Luigi Mangione. And so.

is the rest of society, but gays in particular. - I think me too. I think me too. If you saw my screenshots. So I was getting my haircut the other day and I was looking at like a haircut I liked and the guy who cuts my hair goes, "Why is Luigi on your phone?" I go, "I know it was a screenshot of him." I'm sorry. - Stunning. - Handsome young man. - Smart. - Smart. - Young, young. - He's very young. The gays really are going crazy. If you go on Twitter, it's like gay Twitter.

And also, there's a lot of debate over whether that penis pic is real. Wait, what? Really? Debate now. You guys, I'm behind on the, what pic? We broke the story. What? The dick pics? We broke it. You didn't see the dick pic? Please, play it. Mom, it's time to mute this. What? Susan, you gotta see his dog. No. Well, people were saying whether or not it's a Photoshop. Oh, where? I wonder

What a bummer. Was it the perp walk? Did you guys see the perp walk with the mayor who's in trouble with Diddy and he's on the perp walk? Yes, the perp walk was kind of crazy. Oh, that pic. No, that's not the one, but that is one. That's not the one? That's not the one. That's a good one. But that's an example of... I think he's closer to my son's age than my age. All right, let's see. I know what the draw is, though. What is the draw?

The Robin Hood type of guy. Like my husband's father passed away last week. He was 70 at COPD for a while. He got COVID. They put him in the hospital. Nicest guy. We all went to Disney last year. Anyway, his insurance, they sent him home early and he died. He was, I mean, and my husband was talking to him on the phone watching a Broncos game. And my husband said, do you think he got too excited? He couldn't breathe. I'm like, he should have been.

In the hospital still. Or they said with rehab to build up the lungs. And he died. He was mentally fine. He was only 70. So I... And he said, it's the insurance thing. I said, that's why that guy... It really did, like...

open our we're all talking it sparked and which actually kind of defines how terrorism works right because like a terrorist attack that is a good isn't about the act of violence it's usually done to point your eyes towards a cause right and then and then that's when that's when they consider it a success is is like if you you do the horrific act of violence and they go what was why did this happen we did it because of this and then if you're discussing this and you're

changing the way you view something that's like a successful terrorist attack this was killing one person but it's oh there it is that's not it that's it that's the one that people are saying that's a fake people are saying that might be a fake Susan please look this is very important

Do you think that's his real piece? Now we're going to go to a commercial break. Well, the lighting seems a little off. Oh my God, you guys. I mean, isn't that crazy? Now you can see- You don't do this at CNN? Now you can see why gay Twitter is going nuts. A producer would be in my ear and go, B-roll, we got B-roll. Roll it. Do you think that's authentic? Here's our B-roll. Check it out. Is that authentic? Oh my gosh, you guys. He's too young for me, even to me to think he's here. I'm scuttering. Look at it like you're a pediatrician. Do you think-

I think it's real. You think it's real? I don't know because now looking at that, we did see that picture last time we discussed it. The shadowing, the light, it seems a little blurry at the head. It's a hog. Do you see the head is a little blurry? Yeah. It's in the foreground and therefore it should be clearer image, correct? Look, as a society, we came together over the sky. Wait, did that sound right? Okay, we all got together over the sky. Yeah.

But, but, but, but, there's clearly something wrong. The mom was called and she said, is this your son? Like, he has a huge family. Like, if that was my son Jack, oh my God. But if that was like, I'd be, that's my... Just don't close it. Just move it off frame for a moment. I don't want her to lose her frame. I'm Catholic. I would, you know, she said I could see him doing that. So I'm wondering, was this the beginning of schizophrenia? I'm just making that up. Like, was something up? No, there's...

First of all, I think that he's the normal University of Pennsylvania. I think he was this normal, obviously very bright guy. He's valedictorian, UPenn and, and really sharp guy. But he started to retreat from his normal connections. Nobody was in touch with him. It's not, that's not normal behavior, especially for somebody in their early twenties started to post and write, you know, things that were not of the norm. Like his, his,

going on, I think, some Reddit rants and maybe on Twitter about his feelings about healthcare industry. And so you have these kind of behaviors that indicate something is changing, right? Then the actual act of pulling off this assassination. And now you have, you know, they had the very short manifesto written that he was like,

This was my work alone and didn't want to, I didn't include anybody else on this, but now pleading not guilty to it, which is... And matching the lawyer sweater. Isn't that weird? And the husband of that woman is P. Diddy's lawyer. They're a dream team though. I mean, if anyone could get them off. I don't see how you can get off on this. I really don't. There's something called, is it jury nullification, which basically means they could go back. Same thing with OJ, in my opinion,

Oh, that a jury might let him off. Yeah, a jury might be, hey, you know, maybe Nicole did that, but there's a bigger issue. It was Rodney King. It just happened. And I understand. And they were... I remember, I think I was interning at a Fox affiliate in Phoenix. I went to Arizona State. So I was... But I remember watching that and I...

He was a superstar, right? But I'm wondering, is this guy a superstar? Kind of. For a certain portion of the population, he is. But mentally, did I think OJ would kill again? No. No. Would...

I don't know. I don't know the mental stability of Luigi. I don't know. Luigi might be like, I mean, there's, it's reasonable to believe that he might have a new agenda or, or see somebody else that is reasonable to go after, you know, not that I think he's a career killer. We know so much more than we know for sure. You know, because what a heartbreak for them, this kid, I watched his high school speech, Val Victoria. I still don't know how to spell it, much less be it for him to do that. It's like, what happens?

happens. But there is schizophrenia with boys. And I think girls, I think more boys at that particular time, that's when he could show signs. Well, the fact that he had this surgery that, you know, to have spinal surgery. But did he? Someone I saw on a show was saying, how do we know that's his x-ray? Well, yeah, but I think he's... He did though, right? He was injured. He's been, you can find him talking about

him going through this pain. I wonder if that pain shifted something. Oh, I think that pain can shift something in you for sure. And,

pills and whatever else he was taking can mess with your mind and and you can kind of fall into schizophrenia at an early age because of that but you know he went he was in real pain i think with his with his back problems i remember after september 11th i think i was in palm springs at the time everyone coming together and of course i feel like and not to compare this to that

But in terms of how, like, it doesn't matter what party. Everyone agrees that our health care system is a disaster. Is a disaster. Yeah. Is a disaster. Whoever you ask. And maybe, like, if you can afford... It shouldn't be that you could afford it. And I was thinking, like, so...

I was thinking this about my, I should have stepped in and we should have gotten him a private nurse. And why can't we stay? I didn't know how bad he was. It was sudden though. I didn't know that they sent him home and we didn't know, but it shouldn't even be that if you pay, he's paying health insurance. It doesn't. It's people get egregious. Yeah. So I think that's the connection coverage and you're like, he's the symbolic. Yes. He's the symbol of it. Face of it. And he happens to be good looking. I know. Thank God we chose a handsome fella.

Well, I've thought about this, that if he were not a good-looking guy, there would still be people who would be like, yeah, I get why you did this, and supporting the fact that healthcare- I think Chris Rock said that. He's like, come on. He's like, if this guy looked like someone else, we'd be over it. He's good-looking, right? And smart, and came from that succession family. Yeah. I'm dying to deep dive there. Like, what-

It's interesting too that the grandmother had a $30 million fortune that she left to her children and grandchildren, right? Of which he is one. And in the will...

It notes like if anybody's convicted of a felony, that you don't get a piece of this. But I'm like, this is such an interesting thing to think you have to put in there. You know what I mean? Like I just, but who does? Yeah. Like who goes, well, no felonies though. That sounds like succession. Yeah. Like that, that there were, she predicted that something like that would happen. I remember my aunt Jeannie who didn't die with much. You'd go, I love my aunt Jeannie and uncle Peter, but,

you'd go in their house and it felt like I had a madman and they, I think they grew up in the depression. So they had Campbell's soup, but they, he, my dad, who's an attorney was the executor. And he said, uncle Peter at $200,000, like stuff was hidden mattresses, but they left it to like my mom and certain people, but not,

Not the cousin that was divorced. That was the end for them. That was their line? Yeah, like divorce. But felonies apparently with this family. But I wonder if it does go to trial. He's charged federally. But it's funny. I had questions about terrorism and you answered it. And it was a big deal because when he was originally arrested, they were saying that they were going to charge him with second degree murder. Because in New York...

is a more likely conviction and the sentencing guidelines for that, they felt like they could for sure do that. And then there was the shift to make it first degree terrorism, which is a much, but there's a much higher burden of proof for that.

So there's a lower threshold to convict on second degree. But I think with the fact that, well, the video, obviously they confiscated the backpack. They had the gun there. That's interesting. With Casey Anthony, there was a criticism of overcharge. So she walked. That could be interesting. I heard this morning that P. Diddy is jealous of how much attention he's getting because they're in the same prison. And they have husband and wife lawyers.

The wife is his lawyer. The husband's P. Diddy. So P. Diddy's furious. He's like, why is everybody talking about Luigi, man? That is so ridiculous that he's furious. But it's interesting about murder and what we think. And looking at, I remember seeing that video and thinking, who has a silencer? This was a hit. And then the bike,

But then is it true that like a female flirting brought him down? Like the mask? Well, that's how that photo got circulated. Yeah. The photo was circulated because like, it's not for this photo. We don't have a face.

So if you don't have a face, how would people know who to look for? We didn't have anything. If you're a savvy and you planned it, like you don't flirt with the. No. He's out of his. You're right. You know, what's interesting, though, is that I feel more afraid of a P. Diddy than I do this guy. I was just going to say that. Yeah. We have different lines like with BTK, who was absolutely nuts and would kill again. And he said that out loud in court.

Would certain people killing it like that's it's almost like the Menendez like when is a murder we and I guess that's why obviously they have the legal system in parole. It's like would they do it again? How have they acted in prison?

And I guess that matters to the new Diddy was in a deep dark hole. But Diddy's torturing people. And it's torturing people. I think he tried to kill Jamie Foxx or somebody. I don't know. The more I go down it, I don't know what to believe with him. But it's like, again, I ask why you have everything. What are you doing? I mean, that was Caligula. That's the big question. He was just like unchecked.

resources and power that just kept growing and growing and then that that for him it feels like it was just like to get that dopamine drip you just had to keep yeah raising the bar until it got into this really sick dark world i don't i mean who knows what would have been next for him if you follow the story it's almost what happens to you though i feel like

I'm not saying that everyone's abused who commits murder, but kind of, I think so. It's like, what happened to you? Oh, yeah. But there are people that are abused that never do this. I'm not saying that that excuses it. But usually when it's like serial killers, people that have patterns of repeated violence, you almost always, always find neglect and abuse. Almost 100% of the time. I asked Gabby Petito's dad that. He's wonderful. Joe Petito, I said to him,

I went to his house in Florida. He's from Long Island, though, him and his wife. And they were setting up lights, and it took forever. And I said, I got to know him. Wait, where did – oh. Oh, my gosh. This is embarrassing. So I was doing a Gabby Petito special at CNN, and I was doing this, and I was exhausted. And I'm walking to the parking lot, and they're like, keep trying to call Joe. Here's his number. I'm like, hello? He answered. Susan? I said, yeah, it's Susan Hendricks. How you doing? He goes, good. And I started staring. I'm overtired. I'm like, I'm so sorry.

And he's like, don't worry about it. It's going to be all right. I'm like, this guy's making me feel, I'm mortified. It's a father.

And I just said, I'm so sorry. I just, cause the video came out of her, that body cam video of her. And I think that was my peak of like, okay, I need a break here. I'm crying to this dad. Um, but so I got to know him and I, and I said, what do you think happened? This is off the cat. And he goes, I'm going to show you something on my phone and it's not out yet. I'm going to show you something. I said, all right. He goes, Gabby texts me this that day. And it's

And I said, do you think it's his father? I was trying to, I had gotten to know him. And he goes, the mom, the mom. And I said, what? And he goes, did you see the note that came out? It said burn after reading. Like it was, so body cam footage came out where he was seen smacking her across the face. I think she was, so an assessment had been done. That was in Utah, Utah.

And I interviewed the assessor of this, who was the police chief, who said based on what he saw,

and investigated she was the victim of long-term abuse the girl was yeah and i think watching that i think i saw myself from home from him no from him him yeah yeah but long-term meaning at that age it could be a couple years and i saw a little bit of myself in like who you dated at that age like oh yeah and so when i saw that in the newsroom it was very different than my friend sammy

who is 25, a pretty, he's like, she seems a little off too. I'm like, Oh God, only certain people see what I see. Yeah. Because he had, um, kind of conned the cops who were there and said, is everything all right? And he's like, you saw him suck them in. It was something that I'll never forget seeing. And, uh,

The father said, I can't watch that. That's not really Gabby. I'll watch part of it, he said, but it gets very depressing. And he said, what keeps their family going? So Gabby's mom and dad were divorced when she was three. They're good friends with the now step parents. They're all good friends. They were at CrimeCon one year and they're funny and nice. They went golfing with my husband. They're nice. They came together. Now they're trying to help others. People

people who don't get as much attention as Gabby. Because I was asked that at CrimeCon. Like, why? Because she's blonde and pretty, and is that why? And I said, I'm not sure. I don't make the decisions at CNN. I don't know if that comes first, then the attention comes, or is it we put it out first? But they're right. Everyone should get equal attention. And now Joe and his family fight for that. But he said watching that, her mom said watching that, her mom's Nicole,

That she knew. She knew right after that. Seeing that is horrible. Can I ask you this? When you've met people that have committed crime, violent crimes, do you feel...

an energy from them? For instance, in that JonBenet documentary on Netflix, the first policewoman that shows up, she says, "I locked eyes with the father with Jon, and I knew, and I knew." Like, do you feel a cold breeze? - I will say that that's a great question. I felt it in Delphi when I first walked into the hearing. This was at the end of July.

And when he turned around, and I know it's easy to say because he's an orange, you know, but that look was like, and it's not about me. So I'm with the family. They said to me, Susan, come over here. I go, it's inappropriate. I always said, now I hear my son say, that's inappropriate. And so I said, oh, they're like, no, come here. So I sat with them and he just glared. And that's, I never got a feeling like that. But it's not often that I meet

the guy, like the alleged perpetrator or whoever, I usually meet the families, the Joe Petitos, not the guy who's accused. But with John Ramsey, I didn't feel it. But... And...

I wonder if I would have with BTK. It's interesting because I felt it with him, but he was in and he was looking at me and he was also at the ceiling doing this. BTK was? No, this is Richard Allen. And then when the trial came along, I think he was faking it. Then I saw a interview that he did and he acted normal because I was watching him and I go...

wife and i know he was nuts because the wife sitting over there then i see an interview interrogation that he did and i'm like because he's faking it he is nor like normal there i think that the people who are able to do that if i met him and he wasn't arrested i don't think i'd be able to tell i think they're good at it yeah what about these eyes look into these eyes what do you see what do you feel the coldness he's too much of an intellect the coldness the

The dead eyes. My first gig was I worked for America's Most Wanted. What? I didn't know that. Yeah. I was an associate producer on Final Justice. And then I switched over to America's Most Wanted. You know, I can't wait to call my husband because he's like, I'm a huge fan. He's like, it's definitely going to be the wife who knows all about the murders. He's not even going to know what you're talking about. Yeah. I don't like it. I don't like it. Let me tell you, I don't like it. And I...

I get more terrified because this could be your neighbor. This could be the school teacher. This could be anybody. They're called news moms. I'm a psycho. I got to ask you this, though, because you said you interviewed BTK's daughter. That story is obviously one of the most famous, horrific stories. But when you realize that this guy had the family and the like, what happened?

What was she like? What did you gather from... Awesome. She was really amazing. She's very... You could tell that her nervous system is shot. And she said that she... Her dad would say to her, be careful. Be careful that BTK... You know, lock the doors or do... No. Yes. And so...

She, I felt her get her mojo back, so to speak. Like at CrimeCon, I think it's a good thing it gave her strength. She was a, and oh my gosh, so there's a Q&A session at the end of

And she wrote about it, two kids with her husband, but it caused a divorce. And of course, she says she has PTSD and all of that. But when the FBI first showed up at her door, they said she thought her grandmother died. They mentioned some somewhat. It didn't click until they said, your father's BTK. And she said, my life changed from then on. I had no idea. None. Zero. And the mom and, of course, the brother, everybody was shocked.

I think she said, I have to own it. I can't hide from this. But I hope that people know that I, of course, they know you had nothing to do with it. So someone stood up at the end and this gave her strength.

I never thought I would hear this. And I said, okay, you're next. And she said, hi, Carrie, I wasn't going to come, but I heard you were here. My dad's also a serial killer. No. And I went, only a crime. Gone a place called crime. That you would find that. Somebody else saying that. Yeah. That's cool. And so they walk up to her and say, hey, you know, and I asked Kevin that who puts it on with his brother, how do you keep out the...

the crazies because you would think they'd be there yeah and he said well it's two things if anyone does anything bad they're out escorted out but i priced them out it's expensive these people have like backstage for a thousand dollars the meet and greet and it's we he was able to do this upstairs and it's different cities each time it's like they have sweatshirts that say i'm basically a detective and like a pay phone i'm like i remember people and like cutouts of the dateline people

But then on a different floor, it's with Delphi, like flyers, we want you to help out. But everybody's kind. They really are. They're spending a lot of money to be there. They want to be there. And a good friend of mine, he used to play for the Falcons, Koi Wire. I worked with them for years at CNN. And he's like, oh my gosh, my wife is so jealous. She was at the first crime con in New Orleans. I'm like, really? Yeah.

But because people love 2020, Dateline, and I think, I don't have the exact answer, but I think it's because people feel more in control maybe. It comes down to like a mystery, who would do it and why. It's not so much a crime, like a drive-by shooting. It's more like who did it. Who did it, yeah. And why, and we never know why. We're always like, why? Why?

Well, and I was watching Gladiator 2 this morning as I was walking in my treadmill. And I do think, you know, that is a primitive yearning is that humans need violence. We need that sublimation. We need a bad guy. We need to see bloody, awful stuff because it is a part of the human experience, unfortunately. Yeah.

I don't know. Maybe it's a cruel thing. Maybe we like to see it. I can't believe I was able to watch Friday the 13th at age like 12. Right. I tell my mom that and she's like, I didn't know you were watching that. I'm like, we were screaming the VCR tape of like Jason slaughtering people. If my son's like now I'm, I overcompensate, but clearly he knows what's going on because I did order books in the first person to see, oh my gosh, now I have to write this. How am I going to write it? And tracking this was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. So I said,

ordered these books and he goes mom murder and i said oh no that's an actress he goes oh i'm like my daughter is older she had she would never do that he's definitely in tune to different things but he's like you want to see some wild shit i don't know if you've seen this this is uh brian i'm like i'm in yeah of course this is uh brian cohey jr you saw this no i thought you were gonna say coberger parents have some concerns of some stuff they may have found in your room

Um, yeah, I believe so. And what would it be? A human head and hands. Like, for real, human head and hands? Yes. From? That fellow who went missing recently. Which fellow was that? Warren Brown. Warren Brown? When did he go missing? The night of the 27th. The night of the 27th? Okay. And how did you end up with him? I murdered him. With what? A knife. That's like a Dahmer work. Why would you have done that? I've always wondered what murder felt like.

Well, when I killed him,

Why do you just keep the head in hands, I wonder?

And the rest is down the road. I'm good, sir. How are you? You said your name is Brian? I'm not feeling too well. You're not feeling too well? No, these past few days I've been very, very anxious. What about? I'm not understandable.

So what we're gonna have you do here is I'm just gonna have you sit in the back here, okay? I'm gonna turn on the air for you in a second. That way you're not too hot. Are you a hot-blooded or cold-blooded? I heard everyone knew about Jeffrey Dahmer and then the whole new generation learned about it. With that documentary, which is strange. So you prefer the cold. Okay, fantastic. I didn't even hear about that. So hop in here. I know you're tall, so it's a little bit of a tight squeeze, but like I said, I'll get that air on for you. I go back to British shows.

Oh, we got more, right? My mom's like, why don't you watch Hallmark Christmas? I'm like, okay. Oh, they have to blur it out again. Oh, wait. Was it one guy? Yeah. Yeah. So, but you see how he was like,

Is this a serial killer? No. What state? I've got to go throw up. Excuse me. Colorado. Can I pee real quick? Colorado. Grand Junction, Colorado. Grand Junction. Okay. I'm going to piss. You're going to leave right now? I have to pee so bad. I'm so anxious and nervous. I'm sorry. I have to piss. Can you give me some air? Yeah. She's such a bummer about this shit. Wait. How old is that kid?

He was 19 when he murdered a 69-year-old guy. I know. It is weird. I think when Nancy Grace came into HLNC and the Casey Anthony, it's all about ratings and numbers. So that's when it kind of shifted. That's when I kind of got into the all-crime world.

John Robbins. So it is my job. It's weird. I know. There's also something about just how many, you know, when you say like, it'd be great if everybody could get the same coverage. Yeah. Just how many horrific crimes occur, particularly in this country like this violent crimes. And what I realized with Gabby Petito's dad told me that in the national parks, like they're dead bodies that are there.

and no one talks about it because I did say to him look I'm going to be at crime con with you and that's going to be a question I even asked my bosses at CNN I'm like how do you think I should answer because they're like well don't bring that up I'm like I'm not going to bring it up they're going to bring it up why do we cover blonde pretty girls or like the Casey Anthony's I hope this isn't airing because I'm scared but I'm kidding um

I don't know what the answer is. I think it's about what catches on. I know it sounds callous. Part of it, though, is the fact that when you show blonde 20-year-old who's gone missing or whatever...

people's attention also just sparks for that. It's not just the fact that you showed her. It's that people go, oh, what? They're curious. And to me, I guess if I were to answer, it'd be like, oh, we saw Gabby because she has videos now and kids have things. With Scott Peterson's wife, it was just that one still shot. Do you remember with Lacey Peterson? Now kids have videos and you're able to kind of get a peek into their lives. Did you watch that doc? Which one? The Scott Peterson? Yeah. Yeah.

I forgot so much about that case. With his ponytail. But I'm like, someone said to me at CNN, and you kind of joke, you get used to what you do. Not joke about anyone dying, but you get used to what you do. And if you don't laugh, you'll lose your mind. But someone's like, how about that aging on Scott Peterson? What's going on with the skincare? Meaning he looks good. I'm like, you know, you kind of have to laugh. Sleeps like a baby. Yeah. The sister being like, still. That sister-in-law. I'm sorry, she's in love with us. She's in love with us. But the, um,

Crazy that one of the things that stands out so much is his behavior in the initial interrogation. Like the Christmas Eve. Guys who do this who don't cry, they have this raspy voice. They're like, we're looking for Lizzie. Like they have like this raspy, like, I don't know where she is, trying to sound sad. Practice it, Tom. It's a raspy, like fried voice with no tears. Christina's gone.

Is that good? And you whisper, yeah, perfect. Christina, I hope we find her. And that's it, no tears. He was like, he's like, yeah, I got back, went fishing and then I saw the dog was out and then, I don't know,

I don't know. Yeah, fishing on Christmas Day. And Nancy Grace, I'm fishing on Christmas Day. I love Nancy Grace. Didn't he like order a pizza before he called her in missing or something? He was so chill. Oh, he got, no. Remember, the cops arrested him. He had an orange beard. He took classes at Arizona State, my alum. But he, and they're like, are you hungry? And they went through a drive-thru and he got like in and out. They're like, are you hungry? And he's like, yeah, I'm starving.

I just killed my wife. With no qualms. But I mean, he did the worst performance, as far as putting on a performance. He was just like, yeah, and the dog was out, so I knew something was wrong. Yeah, the dog. So yeah, she's just, I don't know where she is. But I hope you find her. It's like, this is your pregnant wife on Christmas Eve, and you're like, yeah, I hope you find her. I don't know what to tell you, man. How about his mistress? I really liked her. She was really nice. Coming forward and like, he's like, hey, I'm in Paris. Yeah.

I see the Eiffel Tower. There's the Eiffel Tower. And she knows at that point what's going on, so she has to be like, oh, cool. Do you see now this is my job, so I would listen to you guys and was on the algorithm and was like, all I wanted to do was laugh. Because it's like one extreme. And I am, I will say, I'm a little nuts. I'm so aware of my surroundings that I was at the gym and I hit this thing

And I noticed like a guy was supposed to get off on the button. He clicked, but he didn't. He got off on where I did. And I'm like, and I take a right and I'm like, I'm nuts. I remember one time. I'll never forget this. Stranger danger. I was a exchange. I was a foreign exchange student. I was in Madrid and the bus that would go to my stop. I was, it was taking it in the evening.

And I got up from the back of the bus and a woman in the front of the bus was getting off and she turned around and saw me. And when I got off with her, she ran like she ran. Of course.

And like screaming, so I chased her. What? I did because I was like, this is so fun to see somebody this scared, you know? It was fun. Let the record show that he was joking about it. If I go missing, guys, my favorite clip of you guys is Bill Burr being like, no, you're not. Oh, who's the bigger psycho? Oh, yeah, totally.

Please. I didn't know you worked for America's Most Wanted. Yeah. He loves it. Remember the milk cartons? Was anyone ever found from that? Jesus Christ, I hope so. I think so. But that show caught a lot of people.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. America's Most Wanted caught so many people. Oh, with, what's his name? John Walsh. Yes. Yeah. That when Fox went to cancel the show after it had been on for years, there was a backlash that was so big that they brought it back. Good. Because they were showing, they were like, look, this show's already caught like 800 people. Yeah. It's a public service. It was like public service, yeah. Always. I don't know if you guys are aware of this subculture. No.

So outside of trials, I covered this, but with like Karen Reed, there's these people on YouTube who want clicks. And there was Turtle Boy, who's like the conspiracy theorist. And like, she's innocent. She was accused of killing her Boston cop husband. But, you know, so there are people who now go to these trials. So the Brian Koberger trial is coming up at the end of August. Yeah. The Idaho. Yeah. And I got to know Stacey-

Okay, who's this psycho? Sorry. Ethan Chapin is, you know, one of the college kids who were murdered in that off-campus home, the three girls and the boy. I got to know Ethan Chapin's mom, and I said to her, would you do...

be on a panel with me. I'm interviewing like Yardley Love, who was killed in a lacrosse. She played lacrosse at University of Virginia. And so I was doing a panel on kind of how do you recover? What is the strength? And there's a lot of gag orders. And I said, we won't talk about the specifics. And she said, I will. And she's so nice. She called me like two weeks before she goes, you didn't tell me the name of it. I go, I know. I'm sorry. CrimeCon, I left that to the end. Oh, yeah, yeah.

I was like, I know. And she goes, I'll do it. And then I really love her. She's like, I don't think I'm going to the trial. Nothing can bring my son back. She's like, he was at his girlfriend's house. And the one thing I will say, I know this sounds very depressing and we keep bringing up different murders. The families that I've met and the strength that I got from them, and that's the focus of my book, it's unbearable.

It's unprecedented. If you think you're going through something, it really is. And you guys do that too. I feel like your genre and what you guys do when you guys were one of the first, it's like men don't talk about things back then that you guys talk about. Like, oh, with Theo Vaughn, maybe I'm depressed. Maybe emotions of it, yeah. Yeah. For my husband to watch it, that wasn't talked about. They watched football games.

games. You guys are doing something wonderful. And I think I kind of thought through it. You are. But I thought through it like that's what that does. It's like they can get through it then I can get through it. I think hurt people are drawn to crime. They really are. It's good for them to meet other people too that have been victims of even not maybe of a murder but just something. There's always something in the eyes though. This guy's out of his fucking mind. The eyes

are really a window. Wouldn't talk to that kid. Wouldn't talk to him. And I remember talking to Paul Hulls about it. He said, remember he saw snow or there's something snow like that is, I don't know if it's a sign of schizophrenia, obviously, but something was up clearly. And remember the dad driving him across the country. But in that picture, like if he's a teacher at your college, you're not thinking mass murderer. Yeah.

He wants Jake Gyllenhaal to play him. Is that what he said? If this tells you anything, don't trust anyone. I mean, you could turn paranoid. So that's why I have to balance it out. And my mom's like, watch Hallmark Christmas movies with the same plot. So it is a little, but it is, again, the strength from the families. It is a little, oh yeah, Jake Gyllenhaal, I could see that.

I think also I have an aversion to this type of stuff because I grew up in Los Angeles during the Night Stalker as a child. Yes, so did my college roommate. And it was so scary. We were all terrified this guy was going to climb in our windows at night. And it's a very, there he is, childhood fear. I think that may have saved my life and here's why. But as ditzy as ditzy can be, my parents said, you can go to any college you want. My dad and my mom said, I can't believe you said that. They took me to ASU. I live in New Jersey.

My mom cried the whole flight home. My sister went to Boston College. She said, you should go to Boston with your sister. Mom, I'm old. Now I look at pictures. I'm like, so my friend Terry had a Jeep and she ran out of gas all the time. Two ditzes. And the guy pulls up like muffler dragging and said, hop in girls and has a badge. And I go, let's go. She goes, no.

And I'm shocked she said no because I was like, why? And she's like, growing up there was a night stalker worried about you never know who's who. And I'm like, let's get in. He has a badge. Thank God. Well, I lived in Milwaukee during Dahmer and I got just a taste for chocolate. I was really like, this is what I want to be doing, man. It was exciting. I think you got the Dahmer glasses. Oh, man.

But the Night Stalker. I mean, we talk about people not looking like that. He looks like a killer. That is the cool thing. How did they finally get him? I don't even know. So the best part of that story is that it was the citizens of Los Angeles. They beat this guy in the streets. They found him. They found him. Like looking in a window. No, he was all over the news in LA. You couldn't not hear about the Night Stalker. And his picture was up everywhere. And somebody saw him coming out of a Greyhound bus station, I think. Yeah.

In the neighborhood there. He was trying to steal a car. And they fucking spotted him. Awesome. And a group of dudes beat him down. Think about before social media, everyone's like, I'm sick of this guy. And L.A. was. And it was the greatest thing ever. He got street justice. Where did you grow up in L.A.? The San Fernando Valley. So it's on fire. Last night I turned on Anderson Cooper. I'm like, it's on fire.

I'm like, it's burning. It's devastating. Horrible. It is devastating. It's horrible. Devastating. This is the worst one ever. I don't think I've, in my lifetime. In Getty, Louisiana? I lived in LA a couple years after college. Manhattan Beach first. And then my dad calls me and he's like, do you have a job? No, I'm just moving with my friends at Manhattan Beach. But I loved living there. And I turn it on. I'm like, what the hell? It's so sad. It's really devastating. Very sad. Not cool. Oh.

Oh my God. Yeah, Night Stalker. There's a great doc about that too. The Night Stalker? Yeah, it's great. Oh, maybe Jake Gyllenhaal played him, right? I think I may, or I'm thinking of, what was it where they would leave signs that the- Zodiac? Yeah, did they ever catch that? No, Zodiac was, well-

The theory is that the one guy who they presumed was him and that it was him because there's no other – there's nobody else that fits the profile like he did. He died, that guy. Who was that Long Island one who used to shoot people in their cars like they were kissing? Oh, you're talking about – I remember this. I know this one too. Son of Sam you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the new one. This is the Long Island guy.

Yeah. A friend of mine, Cheryl. This guy's a fucking architect. The CSI guy, that woman that I'm friends with, she said, Susan, I was at his house. No. For the Nancy Grace show, like after the fact. And she's like,

I'm sorry, but he's an architect in that house. It stands out. Like Billy Baldwin went to high school with the guy. Like, cause he would live in upstate and Seth like, I don't know. I mean, do you ever know? Everyone knows kind of someone in high school where you're like, I could see that. So there's the house. And yeah, that's true. I guess he had a room in the basement, like silence of the lambs. No. Yeah. Like a soundproof. That's quite a mug. He's got on him though, too. That is a, that's a, that is a face, man.

And it is sad going back to like the Gavititos. If these women, because they didn't have, some of them didn't have families who were going to be the dad that's standing in front of the microphone. You got to wait with it for longer. He was killing prostitutes. So it's like people would just be gone. It's so sick. But this one woman who was on Nancy Grace was a prostitute and met him and said, no, got the vibe and was like, uh-uh. Met at a restaurant. He was furious, but like the overpowering. And you know,

I just miss the online dating, thank God. But you never know who's who, right? Well, we just, that stalk Mary kill. What was that? Stalker, lover, dancer. Lover, stalker, killer. And immediately when he talks about going on a date with the first girl and she's like, we had a party. We went to a bar. And she's like flipping the bird and like, oh. And I'm like, that chick's so fucking crazy. Did you see that one? No. No.

That one is really good. You got to see it. I think that one kept me up. I would put the end of the fire one above that. That one is incredible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's incredible. What's the premise of it? End of the fire? Yeah. So this woman had given up her, this woman right here, had given up her daughter for adoption. And she decides as an older woman now to look up her adult daughter.

daughter who she gave her well she finds that the daughter she gave up for adoption had gone missing years prior and that's the catalyst for this whole thing and she ends up really being like we were discussing she ends up being the driving force for getting answers to like what do you mean my daughter just went missing and it's I don't want to give it away because it's such a good story it's such a good story that uh

I mean, it really is. It's unbelievable. Christina, did you watch Shillian? This one? Yeah. No. No, but she was hearing stuff. Oh. I heard enough. What happens is she's sitting there. Do you watch TV in different rooms? No, I fall asleep to him. And I hear murder in my sleep. She'll just hear. She'll be like, and then assaulted and put a cigarette out on her eyes. And she's like, thank you. I'm trying to sleep now. Or if it's having to do with children, I can't do it. I can't do it. I can't. And that, when I anchor weekends on TV, I

I would say, okay, this rundown, it's a Saturday. It's literally, I said, no dead kids. Like, this is horrific. And I know that we shouldn't like, I'm sorry, but I can say that. Like with kids, I can't. Yeah, I know. I don't want to watch any kids stories. I'm telling you, you just did the adoption. No, this is different.

JonBenet is where I draw the line. And I got obsessed with JonBenet and Maddie McCann. And I was like, I can't do this anymore. What do you guys think happened to Maddie? What do you think happened? I think what you said to the extent of some maybe neglect. Because they were, so if people don't know, it was a group of tourists, English tourists. And they were what in Portugal. And they decide to not get babysitters. Instead, they let all their children sleep alone. Right. And instead, they have tapas. Tapas.

How many feet away? Around a bush? Down the hotel? And they figure we can check on these kids every so often. They should be fine. Well, one of the kids disappears. I think they drugged her because they're doctors. They probably drugged the children to go to sleep. And I think it was a death. Because here's what gets me is. Oh, you think death. I think it was an accidental death. And then they got rid of the body. Because the blood sniffing dogs. Remember that? There's the dogs that are like experts. That stopped there. Corpse sniffing. Yeah.

The dog's alarmed on that. I do. I always think it's the parents. Do you think Casey did the same thing, Anthony? Casey Anthony? Allegedly, people guess that it's like chloroform to go out and party. Yeah. Hello. Sometimes that's what they do because that's what those parents did. I think they drug the kids to go to sleep so that they could have fun at the tapas place down the street. And it's funny. My mom would watch me during this. My daughter was that age at the time. She's like, I think of Emery too much. And I'm like,

I'll call her about Delphi and I'll say, mom, this is what I saw today in court. She'll start crying. And she's like, it's just so sad. And not that I'm not sad, but I'm like, realize how hardened because I have to like talk about it on the air. And,

And so I'm almost able to compartmentalize, but who knows? Long-term damage. Like you're able to talk about it because it's my job. But it is horribly sad. And the one day, so we get lottery tickets for pool reporters. So I'm in the front row. And that day that I got the pool, I took myself out of the lottery after that. I said to Nancy's producer, I'm like, get me out. Because it's front row and it was the crime scene photo day. And it was zooming in and I went, oh.

Like, and I had to, I got in trouble too. You laugh. So I had to take notes and I knew that it was going out to a pool cause there's no cameras and my notes weren't that good. And we're in a lunch break and the Carroll County comment newspaper lady who was like, Susan, I need your notes. I said, they're not done. I'm just writing. I'm Googling the blood term. It was DNA day and I'm so stressed. And then I sent it at four o'clock. I had to take pictures so everyone could get it. Well,

Nancy's producer calls me. I've been friends with him at CNN. He goes, Jeremiah, you got fired. I go, what do you mean? He goes, you got let go. You didn't hand your notes in at noon. I'm like, I'm fired for the pool. They're like, yeah. I'm like, good. I'd rather wait in line with the cool people anyway. It was just so funny. I'm like, they're like, we won't be needing your services for the notes. But I'm like, I don't want to sit in the front row and be worried about the notes. And that's the fine line. Because I got close to the family, I was like, you know what?

Because I did go to the hearing and Mike, the grandfather, was like, who are you with now? I'm like, myself. I wanted to be there. I didn't want... So it's kind of like, I don't know. I think I'm too in it almost with this case that I don't... It's a little nuts. Well, for people who want to do a deep dive...

because you did, get down the hill, my descent into the double murder in Delphi, which I'm excited to read. I am. Maybe you can read out loud to me as I fall asleep. I can read to the kids. Well, it's funny. I asked the families because it mattered to me. I didn't want them to not want me to do this. So I sent them a couple of chapters and said, if you don't want me to do it, I won't do it.

And Becky said, no, it's okay. And she read it. And this was a very big compliment to me. Tara Libby's aunt said, can you send me four for Christmas? Because it's not at this. We didn't know much, but it's really about them going through beginning to end and their perspective. So it wasn't like, you know, not that I'm on my high horse saying I'm better because people are.

really fascinated by the actual killer. You know, we can name them. We rarely can name the victim. So I just wanted it to be a different perspective. I'm not saying I'm amazing by doing it. It's just what I knew, what I could write about. And we don't get to hear those stories. I don't think, you know, I've ever heard of a book like that where you hear from their perspective and how absolutely traumatizing that has to be to have something like this happen to you. And to be able to keep going on. And that's what it is. It's the connection that...

at CrimeCon, like if they can get through that, how do they get through that? Then I can get through anything I'm going through. That's so true. That's a good point. So true. So that's what I gained. I've learned so much from them. And Kelsey Libby's sister wrote the foreword. I asked her. And I'm like, if she can get through this. She was only 18 at the time. She dropped them off at the bridge. She blamed herself. She didn't know what to do. I went to her baby shower. She has a little girl. She's pregnant again. So yes, I am too close. But I love them. I really like them as people. And I...

I felt for the first time I was in the inside looking out instead of the outside looking in and getting the sound bite. And I know it might be nuts, but it's my perspective. Tell you what, I think you're nuts. I think you're nuts, but I'm going to read this. Susan, thank you so much for coming. Thank you so much. It was so fun chatting with you. Hopefully you can come back and we can do another dive into crime and horrible things that people have done. And Hallmark Christmas show. Yes.

All right, that's it. We'll see you guys next week. Bye.

♪♪ ♪♪

Bye.

You're very handsome. You're my fresh last heat. Whoa, thank you. What's going on? What's going on? I've been having, uh... Cucumbers. Where? You eat cucumbers? Yeah, I eat cucumbers and then it makes me look better. Cucumbers.

Bye.