Verdicts in both the Delphi murders trial and the case of a murdered Minnesota mom. Plus 20 years on, Keith Morrison talks about Scott Peterson.
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Our editorial team is catching up on breaking crime news around the country.

The text start revealing this really kinds devious. They try to put that in his margaritas, and I do believe the defensive rest today.

So he is charged with the mom's murder.

No.

welcome to date line through crime weekly. I'm andry a canning. Its november thirteen. Then here's what's on our docket. A twenty six year old mother of two was missing for months before her body was found in a drainage pipe in southern minnesota. We've got the latest on her alleged killers trial.

The defense was able to get a change of venue, claiming that a lot of people in the community participated and the search for .

her in date line round up dramatic developments. In the case of missing texas mom Susann simpson. And a judge hears arguments in the brian coburg case, should the man accused of murdering four university of vita ho students face the death penalty when somebody sits on death row and there's no real means of executing them, that is dehumanizing to that person. Plus, Keith morson will be here on the twenty th anniversary of scot Peterson's conviction. Keith looks back on .

the blockbuster case. Em, at this, hard to figure out, accepted this guy, the husband, he was a strange cat. People couldn't figure out.

But before all that, we're headed to a course in Carol county, inDiana, where this week a jury reached a verdict in the trial of the man accused of murdering two school girls in twenty seventeen. It's a case we've talked about several times on the podcast. The brutal double murder of dbl scholars abby Williams and libby german, who were found stepped to death in the woods neo winding creek.

The case hung over their hometown of delphi, inDiana for five years until twenty twenty two, when investigators arrested a local man by the name of Richard Allen. Allen's trial began almost a months ago, with the prosecution and the defense presenting starkly different accounts of the defendant. Was he a killer without mercy who forced to terrified girls down a hill at gunpoint? Or was he an innocent man got caught up in a botched investigation here? To fills in on what the jury decided and how the community reacted? Is deadline producer mariano donal? Hey marian.

hey Andrew.

give us a sense of what the jury had to go over once they went into that jury room. I'm sure that video from libby german's phone of a man who looks to be telling the girls to go down the hill how to be a big focus for them.

Well, you know, the prosecution said, look, look at that image taken by libby german man, just before her death. You're saying who but Richard Allen fits the description of that and that you see there. One other visible bomb shell that the prosecution delivered was in one of his confessions from prison.

Richard Allen said, I killed those girls. I had the intent to rape them, but then I saw a then passing by and I got scared. And sure enough, there's a man who said he was driving a van that day at around that time of his driveway, which runs parallel to the creek.

So the prosecution is saying, look, if you've got ta give credibility to this confession because IT matters up with this witness.

that's right. And who but the killer would would know that detail?

What do you think were the most powerful moments the jury took away from the defense as they deliberated?

Well, I would have to say so much was in the video. You see this video of him in prison, and he is at times gone, at times he is covered in faces saying, listen, they broke the sky in prison. Those confessionals have got to be thrown out because this man was not in his right state of mind.

And there is one more thing at the end of the the defense um arguments about the headphone jack of luby's phone tell us about that.

This was another one of those job dropping moments. The defense expert said, look at five forty five P M. The state series, the girls are already did at this point. Why that does the data show that something was plug into the headphone jack of the phone at five forty five P M, and then unplug some five hours later, around ten thirty, that your killer. And by way, that cannot be Richard out.

He's home by them. Oh my good. That is an interesting nugget, marian.

The jury deliberated for around nineteen hours over the course of four days. Take us inside that courthouse. Well, you and everyone else were waiting for the verdict.

We were not allowed inside the courthouse until they said there's a verdict. But when we came into that courtroom, there was no sound. IT was like everybody was just holding their birthday, couldn't hear people breathing or coming like you Normally did.

And then they handed the judge the form, and SHE read IT like he was ribby off the handset, can want guilty? Come two guilty, come three guilty, come for guilty. And after that first guilty, you heard one gasp and then silence, one gas likely from one of the victim's families.

And then you hear this very silent weeping, and he was right behind me. And IT was his wife, Katherine. And is mom.

can you break down the four counts for us of what he was found guilty?

The first and second counts were called felony murder. The first four avoca Williams, a second for libby german. And what that really refers to is that includes kidnapping in the commission of murder. And then the second two counts, three and four are called murder felony, the opposite. And those referred to intentionally causing the deaths of these girls.

Did he have a reaction? Did he say anything?

Said nothing. He looked stoic, but at then at one point, he turned his head around and he looked at his wife, and he just kept nodding his head as if he was suddenly community to her, like it's gonna be OK.

How has the community reacted to this?

For the past three weeks, the people lining up outside have been people, not from delphine, but from other parts of the country who've come in just to watch this trial. And many those people that I tribute were really rooting for Richard Allen. However, after the vertical, as I came down the courthouse steps, I, all of us suddenly hear this woop and this rounds of applause, and I see the street filled with people. The people of delphi had heard about the verdict, and they came out to show their support for the families of the victims.

What is next for the case? Maria, sentencing.

Sentencing is set for december twenty years. He's looking at forty five to sixty five years, suggests of each girl.

A land's wife, Cathy SHE, is ready to fight the verdict. SHE spoke to N B C A fili A W T H R. As SHE left the courtroom .

and then Richard Allen's wife came out, but Richard Ellen's wife, Kathy Allen came out. h. SHE was crying, and he just said to the media, this isn't over at all.

That was her one indication. And yeah, I mean, Katherine has been a constant persons there in the court. His mother has been there most days. And even though they were weeping when this came down, they had a bit of, I guess I don't have a stoicism or determination that this was not going to be the end of things.

What about the girl's families? Is what do we know where they go from here? Sometimes family members of victims, you know, they channel that pain into helping others.

You're one hundred percent right. And that is the case of in respect to libya family heard grandmother and her sister have become very outspoken at gets for victims rights.

And I think abby's mother, I know that once a year SHE just is really beautiful charity service for kids who don't have access to things like pencils and paper and games and people the community come and join her and they fill shoe boxes with all these great things that kids would love. And they go out over the country to to kids. And that's in abbe's memory.

And so nice. Thanks, mary, so much for your reporting and for bringing to us on the podcast. We appreciate IT.

Thanks, Sandy.

Up next, thousands of people turned up to search for a Young mom who disappeared in southern minnesota. But IT wasn't until a share of deputy heard flies swarming over a pile of logs that he was found. A year and a half later, her x boyfriend went on trial for murder.

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On march thirty first, twenty twenty three, at eight in the morning, madelin kingsbury and her x boyfriend adam flavell drop their kids off at daycare in windows. A minnesota IT was the last time the five year old and two year old would see their mother. SHE was twenty six years old. Her family reported her missing the next day, and a little over her two months later, a body was found wrapped in a fitted sheet in a covert ara filet. K, T, T, C, covered the news.

Law enforcement has confirmed the remains are those of metal and change very.

Adam was arrested for her murder a few hours later, and for the past month, his trial on four counts of murder, two for killing her and two for killing her while committing domestic abuse, has riveted the state as the prosecution has told the story of a woman trying and fAiling to a scape of relationship that had become violent. Olivia, a bronze in ski who reports for K, T, T, C, was in the courtroom every day, joins us now from rochester's neot. A, hey, Olivia.

hi.

Thanks for having me. What has been the reaction in southern minnesota where all of this happened? There was a search, of course, Young mom goes missing like that. I would imagine a lot of people turned out to try to find madi.

Yeah, thousands. There were several large searches every weekend. IT seemed like there were fifty two, one hundred volunteers coming out on top of several law enforcement agencies doing stuff on there and as well.

And during this time that madi is missing. What is out am doing? Is he helping search for her? Is he doing please on the news? Is he going on? Al media? Adam claims .

that he was told by the bca not to participate in searches, don't go to any of conferences. But later on I confirmed with the bca that they never said that. Am, oh.

n bca, is that are those crime scene investigation?

So sorry, not everyone is from minnesota. The B, C, A is basically the top crime investigator in soda stance for a peer of criminal apprehension.

Yeah, that would seem really odd for the enforcement to tell someone's significant other not to participate in a search that i've never heard that before. Of course, there are in middle of break up at this point.

Yes, the relationship has actually been done for will leave a couple of weeks, if not months, but they were still living together for the kid sake.

So IT took from April first until june seven for them. Define madders .

body yeah so where her body was found had actually been searched numerous times by law enforcement agencies and SHE was found in a cover that nobody knew existed which is a piece of pipe that directs water underneath a road um and so the investigator he just so happened to go down that road one day and he said that he got out of his car and walked up and down the road and then he could smell um decomposition and that he could hear flies and he looked down and he said that he had trouble seeing IT at first but poking out from underneath the pile of logs he could see a great fitted bedsheet .

bottom was arrested the day the body was found. Charged with murder two days later did the police give insight into what evidence they had that LED to this quicker arrest about them?

Really IT was all of the abuse allegations that came from madley family and friends. I I think the biggest one was the abuse allegation where um IT happened at the september of twenty twenty one. They were watching A I believe a special on gb potato. And after that, I think madeleine and expressed that the murder made her upset, and I was sad to see. And then adam allegedly put his hands around her neck and push her into the couch and said that if SHE didn't wise up, that he would end up like garby potato.

Oh, I don't think i've ever heard anything quite like that. My gunness.

yeah. A scary situation for sure.

The statute and minnesota also comes into play because he was committing domestic abuse, allegedly. And if there's a pattern of domestic abuse that can affect your charges.

yes, according to minnesota, a lot. The prosecution had approved two other instances of a alleged domestic abuse. And in this case they had multiple. They had the garby patio incident. There was the incident with one of metal le's friends where they were on a face time call, and he watched him hit across the face. There were also instances where friends noticed bruising around her neck.

You were in court, Olivia, for the entire trial.

Yes, I was there for .

the whole month. The state was arguing that matt y's murder was premeditated.

According to the the prosecute on us, there were several things that make IT seem like IT may have been planned. They had security cameras in their home, and they were ripped down just a few days before he went messing. The prosecution argued that no one else knew where that culbert ones .

besides adam afraid adam chose not to testify. Did the defense present any evidence that threw some doubt on the .

prosecution case? Yeah, they were calling in a case of tunnel vision because they said that other suspects were possibly overlooked. They were also trying to, I guess, poke holes in the investigation by saying that essentially metal and kingsbury y's body wasn't in that hover before and there's no way that adam probable could have done that because after April first, adam was under constant supervision. There was a tractor w put on his car. Adam travel was .

found guilty on all four counts last week.

Yes, he was found guilty on all four counts of murder. I think a lot of people are relieved. The family described him as a weight off their shoulder. I mean, I can even imagine what has gone through the family's mind throughout this past nineteen months waiting for justice.

Sentencing is coming soon for adam travel. Yes, he'll be .

sentences in december seventeen th. And for first degree murder in minnesota is a Mandatory life sentence.

Olivia, thank you for taking us through this very, very tragic case.

Thank you for having me.

If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence, call the national domestic violence hotline at one eight hundred seven nine nine safe that's one eight hundred seven nine nine seven, two three three or visit W W W dot, the hot line dot org coming up over a month after missing texas mom suzann simpson disappeared, her husband is charged with her murder and brian coburg is back in court with his life on the line. Plus Keith Morrison joins the show as we look back at scot Peterson's case on the twenty fifth anniversary of his conviction.

The online N B A from geese college business at the university of illinois is an empower ing experience, a global community, extraordinary supportive colleagues and top faculty. To learn more, go to online N B A. That illini.

that E D U. The holidays are all about sharing with family meals, couches, stories, gramma, secret peak, an recipe. And now you can also share a card with instar ds family cards. Everyone can add what they want to one group card from wherever they are, so you don't have to go from room to room to find out who wants and berry is asked, or whether you should get many marshmallows for the arms or collecting votes first sugar co s version or bread, just share a card and then share the meals in the moments, don't know the installed APP and get delivery in as fastest thirty minutes plus enjoy free delivery on your first three order fees terms.

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Welcome back to the show. Joining me for this week's round up is date line correspondent. Blame Alexander. blame. Welcome back to the podcast.

So glad to be here.

Yeah right. So first stop. We have several updates in the case we first talked about a few weeks ago out in a wealthy suburb of san antonia, texas, Susann simpson, a mam for, has been missing since the beginning of october.

In the days that followed, her husband, brad, was charged with assault and a federal weapons charged as well as tampering with evidence. Then last week, he was charged again. Here's our nbc fili I T W O A I.

This obviously is not the development that Susan's loved ones and community wanted to hear, ran sims said. Now charged with her murder, he is here we are now talking murder. Tell us how this all went down and what brought is facing.

This is huge, although remember, Susan's body has still not been found, so right now, his total bond has said at five million dollars, and his attorney has previously said that he does intend to plead not guilty to all charges.

What do we know about why they're charging bread with murder now?

So there's so much that we don't know about this, Andrew, at first that the arrest affidavit was originally sealed by the judge for thirty days, but IT has since been obtained by orfila W, O, A, I, and IT doesn't include an alleged timeline of events and new details like cameras showing at least two trash bags and a large ice chest in the back of red truck, along with a quote, a large and wrapped in a blue tarp with a fire would rack placed on top of them. We also know that investigators are now searching an area that's near the property and bandara taxes. That's where bad reportedly went after the Susana disappeared.

One of brad and Susan's children also spoke at last week, their daughter.

What did he have to say? We heard from her on instagram, chanler simpson, she's a twenty year old daughter of bread, and Susan and SHE called Susan, quote, a victim of abuse from my father and added, my father took my mother's life in a state of .

rage and control. wow. Still a lot we don't know about this case will be sure to keep you posted on what happens next for our next story.

Bryan coburg is back in the headlines. Coburg is, of course, accused of murdering four university of idaho students in twenty twenty two. He was back in court for a hearing last week.

Blame what happened in the hearing. So this really centers around the death penalty and whether the death penalty can be used in this case. And of course, as we know, cover grasp did not guilty. The trial has yet to get underway, but at this hearing, the defense argued that the trial should not allow the duck penalty as a punishment should he be found guilty.

In this case, what was the defensive .

argument will basically, they focus on some ongoing issues with the death penalty. In the state of idaho. Idaho has had real trouble obtaining the drugs used to perform these little injection, and you've not use the death penalty since twenty twelve .

or more than a decade. Here, some coverage from our NBA c affiloir KTV b of the defense argument at the hearing when somebody sits on death row and there's no real means of executing them that is dehumanizing to that person, how did their prosecution respond to all of this? What was their argument?

Well, they push back. They said that lethal injection is currently available in idaho and that its availability should not determine the outcome of whether the death penalty is on the table or not. In this case.

even if you assume that I hope cannot do lethal injection, that's not to say the decades from now, there is not going to be a method by which the state could put him to death.

The judge said he would issue a ruling on the death penalty at a later date, but will be watching this one and will keep you posted blame. Thank you so much for coming back on round up.

You're so welcome.

And a twenty years ago this week, in november two thousand, four, a crowd of people gathered outside the sand metai o county courthouse in california. They were there to hear the verdict in a case that had captivated .

the nation with the jury, the ove and tired cause by the dependence. Cutlet Peterson guilty of the climb of murder of lacy, denese Peterson guilty of the climb of murder a baby connect Peterson.

We asked kate Morrison, who covered the story from the very beginning, along with date line senior producer Susan lee botz, to come and chat about why this case struck such a nerve back in two thousand four and continues to do so today. He, Susan and .

Keith Keith.

you filed your first report on this case just three weeks after lacy disappeared. Let's take a quick listen to the opening lines of that episode.

Where was he Christmas eve all days? Lady Peterson, just twenty seven. Beautiful, doing a month, which just not the sort of person who wanted off without telling someone .

what caught your attention about this case.

You know, this was just obvious from the very beginning that something very where that happened there was a search for the missing woman. Of course.

by two a, we had a yes posters and flyers blanket .

at modesta scars of policeman gave up Christmas to hunt for clue. You know, evidence at that stage was hard to figure out, except at this guy, the husband, he was a strange cat. People couldn't figure out Scott's frantic stories. Simply, yet utterly baffling was this at nine thirty the morning on Christmas eve he had decided to drive ninety miles to san france kobay he says to do some gen fishing memories um was standing outside of the Peterson house hoping that we could get an interview with him and indeed got Peterson walked out of his house he was very calm and I don't know what that meant of anything is just this first impression was quite remarkable .

you felt like if your wife and your unborne child or missing you would be, you know.

iraq exactly. And I think that one of the things that made this such a big story that the public was looking at and said, look at this guy, look what behaves. And yet, you know, the police didn't have the evidence to arrest him. Do you consider him as .

we would love to eliminate Scott from this investigation? And we have been able to do that .

about a month after lacey's disappearance, a woman by the name of Amber fry comes forward and reveals in a press conference that he was romantically involved with Scott Peterson.

Scott told me he was not married. We did have a romantic relationship.

Number of I was a huge thing. And the thing that sticks out in my memory about that particular is that when there was a visual for lacy, everybody was the holding candles and singing songs. And he was at the back of the crowd, and he was on the phone. And later on, IT was discovered that he was on the phone with amer fly.

But Scott's team will point out he did participate somewhat in the visual. There we have footage from our phillip of him in the middle of visual, with a tear running down his face, but he never got on the stage with the other people who are looking for her tonight.

The new lazy Peterson's family had been dreading ever since he disappeared last Christmas eve.

And then in April two thousand, three, two bodies washed to shore a few miles from the marine a, where Scott said he went fishing the day lacy disappeared.

The body being found, the way IT was IT with everything in this story is, put that way, conspired to make him seem prickly, done guilty.

When Scott was arrested. There is that image. And with the died hair, you know, he was caught with certain things.

When police arrested Peterson, he was Carrying ten thousand dollars, his brothers I deep and a passport application. If he was innocent, prosecutors asked, why was he evidently preparing to flee?

From the very beginning, Scott has maintained his innocence. He pleaded not guilty to two counts of capital murder for the deaths of both lacy and corner, and his murder trial began in june of two thousand four. Amber testified at a trial.

I think that turned the tide of the trial wasn't going well for the prosecution until Amber got there.

As we said, Scott was found guilty and sentence to death years past, and we know that he has found a new ally in the los Angeles innocence project. So what can you tell us is, is the latest with that.

the instance project has asked to test many things. The judge has said no to everything except a piece of duck tape that was found on lazy when they recovered her about right now they're looking for any DNA they can find on IT.

Susan, you send attacks to sharing rocha, lacey Peterson's mother, about the twenty of anniversary of scot Peterson's conviction, and he replied to you, the only thing i'd want to say is, remember lacy.

I feel bad for Sharon. I mean, I think it's so hard on her. She's just says she's just so tired, so tired of all this.

I think there is probably no greater curse to a family then being at the middle of a of a story like this one. Um it's just a constant pain for the rest of your life if you happen to be the family of that person.

Ah well we will see what what transpires in the months ahead. Keith h. And Susan, thank you so much for your insight into this this case that has .

captured the world's attention .

that's IT for this episode of date line through crime weekly, you can find out more about the cases covered on our show at our website date line, true crime weekly dot com and coming up this friday on date line. A former barn, a shoots and kills her husband, leaving a jury to decide if I was self defense. The spreads like a lifetime movie. You have allegations of poison t stocking murder. IT goes on and on every .

time I thought this is the crazy thing i've ever heard, that I would hear something else.

Watch my new one hour mystery deadly dance airing at a special time this friday at ten nine central on nbc, or streams starting saturday on p cock, and be sure to listen to case newest deadline original podcast, the man in the black mask. It's a hunting story about a man who goes missing near the set of a horror film and a killer arrested on halloween.

I have never in my life felt fear like that.

You can binge all six episodes now wherever you get your podcast to get add free listening for all our podcast subscribed to date line premium. Thanks for listening date line. True crime weekly is produced by Fanny Kelly and Kitty ferguson.

Our associate producers are carson comments and Caroline casey. Our senior producer is liz Brown coal production. In fact, checking help by Sarah adea, veronica maza is our digital producer, rick on as our sound designer, original music by Justin magana Price and Barnes with head of audi o production. Paul ryan is executive producer and liz coal is senior executive producer of date line.

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