You Might Also Like: On The Homefront with Jeff Dudan
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Welcome everybody. This is Jeff Duden and you are on the home front and I have a very special guest today. My old, I can't tell you how old the friends we are. It's at least three hours. Uh,

We have today with us Ileana Golan. Ileana was a she broke barriers as a commander in the in the IDF in the Air Force training F-16 fighter pilot. She's an engineer. She's an entrepreneur. She's a Silicon Valley investor. And I do believe an insider.

And today is the CEO of Leap Academy, which is one of the fastest growing award winning businesses for helping people transition their careers. Ileana, how did I do?

Oh, wow. You did fantastic. Thank you, Jeff. Well, I mean, you wrote the story. I just had to read it. It is so great to have you on. I'm so excited to have you on. And we're very similar in the work that we do, which is really helping people transition from whatever their current state is. Is it their current state or is it their current constraints and giving them tools and tactics and opportunities to build a better life for those and those people they care about?

I would love to start because you have such a rich history. Can you tell us a little bit about how you grew up?

Oh, I love that, Jeff. And yes, we share so much of the same things. We just want to see people become the best version of themselves, which is so incredible. But I will take you back in time. And as a kid, I guess, I think I was always, I was actually a shy kid. So if I'm being really honest, I was very shy. I had huge bunny teeth, you know, like I was just like, I don't know.

I was very, you know, it took me time to get out of my shell a little bit. But I did have a little bit of that entrepreneurial thing in me, I think from a very early age, at age probably about four or five. My parents weren't at home, which I still don't know why. At age four or five, they weren't at home. But I decided to take a bunch of their stuff and put a big box in front of the house and sell them. Oh, you did?

You had a moving sale, but you weren't moving.

Yeah, we were not moving. So my parents came back. They were like, what just happened to all our pens, all our stuff? Where did it go? And I looked at them and showed them how much money I made. And it was obviously very little, but I was very proud. So there was a little bit of that, Jeff. Well, you had a very low cost basis in your inventory. Exactly. Yeah. And there wasn't really a lot to sell because, I mean, we came from a...

You know, I mean, we were never poor by any standards, but we we we grew up basic. You know, there was like one toy, one thing that you do, you go to school. So it was very basic. But I had everything I needed. That's that's outstanding. And then you you went to university.

in Israel? Yes. So before the university, I went to the military. So we do have a compulsory military in Israel. I stumbled upon one of the best roles a person can get. I think there was some luck in there for sure. And I became an F-16 flight instructor or flight instructor. And we were basically teaching because women actually had a pretty

glass ceiling there in terms of not being able to be real combat pilots and commanders in my squad, we essentially had this barrier. So the only possibility for me to eventually go into is to train pilots. And that was an incredible experience, incredible school, being able to learn how to talk to people that have twice your age, twice your age.

dozens of times your experience is a very humbling, but very, you know, educating experience. Fundamentally, the training that you must have had, and this was prior to university, must have set you up for disciplines and regiments and, you know, guidelines and approaches and ways of thinking. How did your time in the military lead you to become an engineering student?

Oh, it's such a great question. I mean, first of all, it teaches you to touch things that are bigger than anything that you've done before. Right. And, and, and I think that's a very humbling experience. You're literally in the military, you're thrown in the water and you hope that you actually going to swim. And, and,

Like you said, it's like you, it comes with very basic training. You, you're kind of slammed into it. And at that point you need to suddenly, you know, it, it,

I suddenly realized that my mission in life is to train these pilots to defend my country and come home safe. And I'm doing this all through technology. So even though I, till I think age 18, I actually fell in love with being in medical school and being a doctor. That was kind of my dream. In the military, it all flipped and I fell in love with technology and what we can actually make possible with technology. And that's what kind of took me into engineering.

I heard a statistic that engineers represent 40% of the world's billionaires.

And I have a, I have a, so you're, you're probably one of them, but, uh, you know, I have a getting there, getting on the way. And, uh, I have, my youngest is an engineering student, material science, and he just loves solving problems. He loves, um, uh, creating processes, putting his hands on things almost, you know, he, he's built businesses. Uh, when he was in high school, uh, he had a pressure washing business called two bros and a hose. Um,

And they would make a lot of money on a weekend pressure washing. But as soon as he stopped buying equipment and figuring out how the truck worked and the pumps worked and all of that, he lost interest in it. Because for him, it was about creating the process and the technology and the ability to do it. And so you're an engineering student. And did you have any inkling how entrepreneurial you were at that time?

Oh, absolutely not. And I think entrepreneurship wasn't even a thing, at least not when I grew up. It wasn't, the word didn't exist for sure. And, you know, I don't think it was really a thing. I think we were just trying to tap into what this computer thing is. I'm dating myself here a little bit.

But first of all, I think you're right. Like engineering school teaches you to take a big problem and break it down to smaller chunks that you can actually like start chewing on. And I think that's a really interesting thing because I,

that's what you need to do in entrepreneurship or anything, even in corporate, right? You take this big vision and now the question is, and again, you can decide to get overwhelmed, which we sometimes do too, or you can actually chunk it down and say, okay, there's a bite-sized piece to this and I can start doing this.

The interesting thing is because of my military, I got, again, kind of lucky because I did become the first to ever become a commander in that squad. So I did kind of break that barrier. And that created a little bit of a wave in Israel. So people kind of knew me and that, you know, that helped a little bit. So when I started studying engineering, actually in the very first semester of

Intel came and snatched me. So I always laugh that they probably stole me so that somebody else will not steal me, but I don't care why, but I barely knew any coding and I was already in Intel. So there was a lot of advantage there. But I think, again, there was, you know, this pattern of taking a big vision, a big thing,

And how do you even get started? Because at the end of the day, you're talking to a machine and you need to give bite sizes to the machine. And if you can't give a bite size to the machine, it will not understand. So I think it just it really started this entrepreneur. It wasn't an entrepreneur. I can't even say that. But it started and I understood that my I love coding. But where I get really, really good is that combination of actually being

client facing or human facing with that understanding of business. And that became kind of that zone of genius. And I think then my question became, where can I find more of that? Where can I do more of that? Not just the coding piece, but also understanding the whole vision of what's possible.

So as you were a commander, was that the and you got some recognition for that? Did you was that the first time that you maybe were up in front of people or maybe getting awards or, you know, just really being recognized to somebody that, you know, can break down barriers, has done something that other people haven't done before? Like what kind of impact was that on your confidence?

As you went forward? Because your journey is just full of bold, confident-type steps, just one after another. Did you really gain that first sense of, hey, I can take on a challenge and win it from your time there? I think so. So I think I touched leadership proficiency.

probably as kind of head of school somewhere around senior year. So that was my first leadership, you know, touch. But when I got into the military, I think this is where suddenly I realized, first of all, I, I, I realized that I was very determined to prove to everyone. And this is, you know, that,

that we can do this. So even though they put women and they're guarding them so they won't go beyond enemy lines and there were all these reasoning, but we can get really, really good at this. And that was, I'm very determined to at least try to prove it

And so I think that when you, you know, suddenly they opened the door and I became the first commander, I think it just created this, you know what, you can actually dream big and sometimes it will actually make it happen. And I think there was something really beautiful about it. And I'm sure it's, you know, it's motivated me in a whole different level in the future. Do you have brothers or sisters?

I don't. I'm an only child. Yeah. Okay. Well, there you go. Now, did Intel bring you to the United States?

No. So that's also another funny story. I love traveling and that's been in my blood. And I traveled after the military before I got into Intel, I traveled alone, which I think was also something that usually women don't do alone. It was basically all over Thailand, India, Nepal. And I think even just traveling alone teaches you so much about how

unpredictable challenges and, you know, like dealing with things on your own. Suddenly you're sick. What happens? Like there's like things that you need to deal with that are not easy. So I had to deal with all these things. I think it also really boiled me, you know, and prepared me for what's coming. And I think it teaches you independence. So in Intel, after about five years there, I realized that I actually want to, you know,

travel the world. That's when I met my to-be husband. And we decided to go hiking and biking around the world for about nine months.

And actually, the last area was where we're landing in the U.S. I originally was born in Utah. So even though I moved to Israel really early on, but I was born in Utah. So I was lucky enough to actually be able to find a job here pretty quick with an Israeli startup. And that started my startup journey, I guess. Yeah.

I'd like to talk a little bit about that startup because I think and I've been involved in one where it was a it was a Swedish company and they were rolling out a product in the United States.

And it was amazing to me to see how tone deaf they were about the U.S. market, thinking that their product, as it was in Sweden, was going to just be adopted in the U.S. And it needed so much refinement and it needed a complete rebuild. And it just it didn't contemplate market conditions. Does any of that resonate with your startup? Yeah.

I was laughing out loud because it was like tick the box, tick the box, tick the box. Yes. So first of all, yes, it was actually funny because on behalf of Intel, I actually acquired a Swedish company and we morphed it and became, you know, an Intel product. But when I came to the US, I think it shocked me. Again, I will say two things. The first startup that I was in was already a kind of more established startup.

And so I think I and I was, I think, too much down the layers to really notice. The second startup was basically I was founding the company here in the U.S.,

And it was interesting because I met them in Israel. It sounded like, this is a moneymaker. All you need to do is come and collect the cash. So I came and the cash was not coming because it was completely not what we needed for this market. It's something that looked really good 5,000 miles away, but completely not relevant for this market. And it was a complete revamp. And I'll say another thing, Jeff, I think it's also very hard to,

to explain what we're seeing on this side of the world where they have this massive certainty that what they built is the best thing since sliced bread. But they're sitting 5,000 miles away dreaming about all this cash that is coming in and you're looking and you're like, I'm meeting Cisco, I'm leaning HB, I'm leaning on it.

They're not going to buy this. So either we morph this damn thing or we have a problem. And that was like a really interesting realization about market fit, about how to communicate. I mean, I learned so much from that, Jeff. Can you share at all what the product was or if not the product itself, what segment it was in?

Yeah, yeah. So it was a basically big automation. And the idea was basically, if you think of, I don't know, like a T-Mobile, right? It needs to make a phone call from New Jersey all the way to California, right? Like, how do you automate a million phone calls and make sure that they come on time? Or, you know, how do you make a phone call from New Jersey all the way to California?

You know, like it's something along these lines. Like if there's like a Super Bowl, how do you make sure the ad will actually come to everybody at the same time? Because you don't want people to see the ads in different moments and to see the Super Bowl in different moments. So how do you validate all these big systems? It was a fascinating experience.

product, but initially it was kind of more of a lab, you know, it was kind of more, you know, very tight verification things that just didn't, didn't pan out. Like it wasn't what people needed here.

And I think there's also just different, you know, people here have certain staffing and, you know, they rather bring somebody in-house to code than not lean on a third party. The IP is not there. So there's all these assumptions here.

of the behavior of the client, which we needed to completely change. Yeah, we sure do fall in love with our own products, don't we? Oh, but that's the beautiful part about founders, right? Like we have to fall in love, but we also need to listen, which is an interesting balance. Yeah, it starts as a love story. And then, you know, it turns into, you know, like any relationship needs communication both ways.

Yeah. And I think that's also taught me to communicate because I think, you know, if you come from, I know better and it becomes a head to head conversation, it's really, really hard.

When you come and basically sit on their side of the table and say, look, this is what I'm seeing. Here is the things you want. You know, we can and you bring the proof. You understand, you explain. For them, it's an emotional thing, right? You're actually bashing their baby. So, you know, once you understand some of these little things about communication, I think you know how to move people's minds a lot better, which is also a big trait that I feel like

I needed to learn, but it was golden. It was really golden. Yeah. You had another stop or two. And at some point you were focusing on investing in tech startups.

Yeah, not yet. But I can, if you want a little bit drama in the show, I can tell a little bit of drama because, because before, quite before that. So here's the thing. I was, you know, in, in this company that I was in, I was already kind of climbing up the ladder, already vice president. So really kind of, you know, I ticked a lot of boxes.

Um, but I had no life. Like I was flying all the time, every single week I'm in a different place, all red eyes, always, you know, saving cash. Uh, the biggest thing was how many red eyes can I do without taking a shower once? I mean, it was really disgusting. Um, but at the end of the day, um,

you know, at some point I was like, you know what, maybe this is not driving me anymore. Like I've been there for five years. Like I feel there's more to me. What can I do to get better? And at that point, a friend of mine, actually somebody I knew for like 20 years came to me and said, hey, Lana, let's start a company together. And I got so excited, Jeff. Like it was just like, oh my God, this is going to be a dream. So we worked on this company day and night. I was, you

And at that point, we also raised some capital. And even that went really fast. So I have to admit, because our founder story made sense, we pushed this really far.

There was like kind of the Silicon Valley dream, right? Eight hundred thousand dollars. They were evaluating our little baby at five million almost. And I remember looking at this document and I'm like, oh, my God, like, how did I get this lucky? And so at that point, I parted ways from my vice president role. You know, I wanted to make sure everybody understand that I'm not running away because I founded this site. So I wanted to make sure, you know, everybody's set.

And I moved to this new baby. But within exactly 24 hours, my co-founder decided to take the money, throw me out of the business. And I was left with nothing. So no job, no salary, no company, no investment. And I think the worst part, Jeff, is that the ego was down the drain. It was totally crashed.

And it was suddenly I realized that I gave for the last 20 years everything to the company that I was with, but I never built myself. I was inevitably a complete nobody outside. And I think that was a huge, really hard realization. And for somebody really driven to,

I think we always know what's next. Like we always know, like everything is scripted in my life. Like I always knew kind of what's coming. And suddenly there was this big void. Like I wasn't even sure if I'm looking for a job or looking for to start a business or I'm looking at co-founder. I'm looking for revenge. Like honestly, Jeff, at that point, I was like, where am I even heading? And did you say revenge?

Yeah, pretty much. I mean, I'm going to start a similar company and I'm going to show him or whatever, like, you know, because at that point, you're just like I was at the bottom of my barrel, Jeff. I was so it was really hard moment. And I think the hardest thing is I told everybody. So I felt like my ego was down the drain. Like I I.

What do I tell to people now? Like that I'm a nobody and I don't know where I'm going. And like, it just, just threw me off. I knew I could always go back to that company that I was vice president, but there was a reason why I left in the first place. So the question is, what do I do now?

And that was a really, really hard, I mean, we can talk about it, but that was a spiraling for about a good time. Eventually I did start a tech startup. It was acquired and that's how I became an investor, but it was not without a lot of drama. - Yeah, I'm interested if you go back to that point in time, a 20 year career, very successful, highly sought after, probably got calls from recruiters every single day to come and do this or to do that.

You decide on an opportunity. You take that leap. It doesn't work out. And at that point, it was probably a good opportunity to do some soul searching about your beliefs and your values and your fundamentals. What what is there anything that you could share that, you know, you you very intentionally changed about the way that you thought?

It's a great question because I think some of these questions took me a long time to even come with the question because I think sometimes you're so down to

yourself, that it's, you're not even coming up with the right questions in your head. So for me, if I'm being really honest, Jeff, my main question is how the hell did I become such a failure? You know what I mean? It's like, and, and again, you've, it's amazing how fast we forget 20 years of success and we go right into how did this become my life? Like how, and it's,

It's it impacted my sleep. It impacted how I wake up. It impacted my relationship with my my husband. It impacted I was snappy at my kids. I'm never snappy at my kids. I mean, I was just, you know, and it was amazing, Jeff. What's hardest about it as a mom, like I was finally having I had all the time in the world to spend with them. It was the first time in forever that I wasn't flying every other week.

And I wasn't present. I was grouchy. I was annoying. Like I was a fraction of who I could be. So to a long story short, I think...

First of all, I realized how hard this was. And at that point, I probably Googled every little like, how do you find your passion? Where do you find your next career direction? Like I Googled everything possible, checked every TED talk. But it was either very motivational, like who you can do it. I'm like, I know I can do it. I'm like so motivated, but I just don't know what and how.

Or it was done by people that didn't really inspire me without hurting anybody, you know, listening, but really just wasn't, you know, if I already looked at kind of my career trajectory, I knew there was a lot more, but I need to be inspired by somebody that has done some big things and

And at that point, I promised myself that if I ever figure this out, Jeff, I'm going to tell the world how, because that was a really hard moment. So I don't know if I had really good questions. The questions came later. So I think once I realized that slowly I got myself back on, you know, and started leaping again and again.

Suddenly the questions came back and I said, how were, how was I never intentional strategic about my career? Why did I never, you know, really go into the driver's seat? Why did I never build my, you know, personal brand? Because that's so fundamental. Like all these questions suddenly came back, but it was only, only once I recovered, it was really, really hard to, you know, when you're in inside the jar, it's hard to read your own label and I could not read anything. Yeah.

So many great businesses are created by personal experience and oftentimes personal crisis, a problem that somebody has that you can't believe that it hasn't been solved before. How did that experience lead you ultimately to create Leap Academy?

Oh, I mean, that was exactly where I promised myself, you know, I mean, I, and the truth is, Jeff, initially, I thought maybe I just going to create this little thing, you know, we just going to make it's like on the side $20,000 the first year, you know, I just going to maybe there's just not enough people that are going to run into this problem. But I was really curious if I was the only one.

crazy person that ran into this? Or is this really common? Because I felt like this should be really common in today's world. And I was wondering about it. And, you know, the first year we made not 20K, but a quarter of a million. And, you know, and we skyrocket from there. So and now you're right. We're one of the fastest growing companies in America. And I'm

and again for me it's not the numbers it's the numbers of lives that we can save it's the level of coaches that i can bring on it's the level of support and branding and community that we can create for each other to open each other's doors and to create this hidden market and um that's what i'm proud of but it all came from that point of you know from that low moment in my life when when i really lost everything and i think

you know, to somebody listening, if they're running into this similar situation, I'll just say to you,

Like seriously, like sometimes this is exactly the muscle you need to go through right now in order to create the best version of yourself. So if you are going through a really tough moment, if you are lost, this could be very well the muscle that you need to build in order to create a different tomorrow. But I will also say, you know, I, one of the lessons that I got from there is to stop going through this alone, Jeff. So I went, I,

and grinded through this. And right now I probably have like six coaches on different things. We talked about one of them, you know what I'm saying? Like I have somebody helping me with a podcast. I have people helping me with LinkedIn and Instagram. I have people helping me with the business. I have people, you know, it's like, I am done going through this alone, Jeff. It's always takes you, you know, hold slower. You always gonna have a ceiling, you know, like I, I am now such a big believer in finding the people that have walked the walk and

and take them there. Like you, Jeff, if I need a franchise, I am calling Mr. Jeff. Like seriously, like why would you even try to figure this out all on your own? Like you always gonna, it's never gonna work out. Yeah, look, collaboration is a catalyst.

It's a catalyst to an outcome. It's a catalyst to a win-win situation. And, you know, you could say, well, this is a vendor situation or whatever, but ultimately, you know, finding the right who's, you know, and Dan Sullivan with Strategic Coach, I don't know if you've been in Coach, but, you know, nothing new without a who. And, you know, it's finding the right people because it's too expensive in terms of time, right?

to figure everything out from the beginning.

I'll take it even further, Jeff. I will say the biggest cost in your life is the money you're not making, period. It's not just the time. It's the money that you're not making. What if I started Leap Academy five years ago or 10 years ago? We would be a billion-dollar company now. So there is also a cost to not taking action, and that cost is really, really, really high. So I would just say that, Jeff.

What is the impact that you aspire to make with Leap Academy? So I will answer it in two phases. I mean, in the general sense, I just want to take driven people that know that there's more to them. They might be feeling stuck. They might be feeling that there's more to their life, but they just don't know what. And first of all, we want to figure out what that is.

And then we really want to help them get there, right? And to get there, we might also lean on partners to get there faster, right? But at that point, maybe it is up the corporate ladder. Maybe it is to find a new job. Maybe it is to start a new business. But no matter what, you need the clarity. You need a better story. You need to broaden your network. You need to build a reputation. Like there's all these engineered processes that if you just follow, it's actually not that

hard, but you just need to follow the sequence. And if you have that together with, you know, the network and the mindset coaching and the branding coaching and all of that, it really helps. But I'll say, you know, beyond that, Jeff, I truly believe and the way I look at this, I think the education system did not catch up to what's needed in the future of work.

And whatever you're learning at age 20, 22, even an MBA is just irrelevant. It's more theoretical versus what actually takes you, you know, meets you where you are and takes you higher. So we are the big vision is Leap Academy will disrupt professional education. We want to completely change what education, professional education looks like.

And if I'm being really honest, I think eventually this should be taught in colleges and high school. Like, I don't think that needs to be only taught to the elite. Like, I think every single person needs to know how to find their next career, what's right for them, how to lean on their zone of genius, what's transferable. Like, it's just basic learning. So at some point, I want every single person to know it. So that's the big vision.

Similar to a university, people have to enroll. Well, first of all, they have to apply and you don't take everybody. And then if they are accepted to Leap Academy, what types of things do they need to commit to?

Oh, it's a great question. I mean, so we are, you know, we do want to make sure that every single person can actually get massive results. And that's the reason why we might decline someone. It's not because we don't wear mean or anything like this. Like we do want very specific standards of people are really committed to their success. They really want to push more. They really want to create more of their life.

They understand that there's no magic wand. There's no get rich quick. But they truly are hungry to create a better tomorrow, whether it's impact or financial or influence or reputation, legacy, thought leadership, freedom, whatever it is for them.

but they really are driven to create a better tomorrow for themselves. And that is really, really important, Jeff. So once they come in, we kind of decide like what kind of program is right for them. There's some basic one that we believe almost everybody should go through. We have Millionaires Club, we have Presidential Club for kind of top C-suites, et cetera. So we do have a big variety of rules, of programs.

But at the end of the day, the one thing that is a pattern for everybody is they're all driven. They all want something incredible for themselves. And they all want to create some mark on the universe or on their self, on their families and to become the best version that they can be. Do you call them leapers?

We do call them leapers and they call themselves leapers. And it's really fun. I was hoping that I was hoping it wasn't leper. But if I'm a leaper and I come in, is it incumbent upon me to tell you where I want to go? Or is it your is it your assessments that helps craft a future path for these people?

No, we do it together for sure, Jeff. So I think about, I would say 75 or 80% of the people that join, and we're talking about, you know, almost a thousand a year, um,

have no clue what they want to do next. And that's their biggest thing. And without that clarity, everything is a waste of time. They can pay a lot of money to a resume writer, but guess what? That resume writer will not be able to create a good resume if they don't know where they're going. Right. So with us, we just create this holistic experience that they understand where they're going. They understand what their story, what kind of things they're going to need to emphasize. Then we take care of all the branding. We take care of the network, you know, like

all of this needs to be aligned because only then you create incredible results for yourself. And I, you know, so for me, it's really about, you know, understanding your must haves, understanding your zone of genius, really understanding what's going to make you shine where, and again, it's about not just getting the paycheck, but the life that you want with that paycheck and how you create all of it. Incredible. So yeah,

Yeah, it's a combination. Yeah. So it's like coaching plus, plus, plus, plus. So it's coaching plus enablement, coaching plus. Okay. And like, all right, well, if this is true that you believe that you want to excel four levels into your, you know, Fortune 100 company,

Here are the things that you that these people typically have. It might not have dawned on you to have a personal brand. It might not have dawned on you to have this training or these connections or to be parts of these networks. And it might be, too, that you're helping them because if if they do these things.

They can and they don't have the opportunity to leap in their own organization. They can leap to another organization and be recruited there because now they're they're they're more recruitable. They're more employable for the higher role. So it might be that they have to leave the current company and move to another one. Or sometimes, which I read on the website, is sometimes people leap into a business for themselves.

Right. Yeah. So you said it really beautifully. So I'll give you an example because I think it's easier to speak with examples. So we had a leaper or, you know, somebody that came director, lost their job. And again, in their mind, I'm just looking for another director role. Right. So that is kind of where their headspace is.

Now, again, for some people, it's the right thing to just go as fast as possible, find, you know, the lowest hanging fruit. I mean, in his case, it was very clear that he wants to try to maximize the potential. And, you know, he can breathe a little bit. He can take a little bit of time. I mean, not forever, but he can take a little bit of time to get this right. And he, you know, and with him, it was very clear that if he could just build something and add a little bit of things, he can actually build some really amazing executive presence.

So with him, actually, we went very strategic to how the best to build that executive presence. A lot of it to some mentorship and startup accelerators, some advisories, some board seats. Like it can be a lot of different things that people don't necessarily think about it as a personal branding. But for him specifically, it was the right approach. And he actually landed a chief business officer. So from director that was laid off to a chief business officer in a startup. And now he was promoted to be the CEO. So, yeah.

That is the kind of leaps that are possible, but only if you really get them right. And again, not that we commit that every director will become a CEO, but there's like ways to do this. It's like playing chess, but most people never realize it. And nobody teaches you the rules of this chess game, but it's incredible once you actually master it. The other two things that I will say is when you get this right, first of all,

um, it's not only that you're going to be happier, but you're also going to be more appreciated. You're going to be paid more. You're going to create more of the life that you want. It creates incredible safety net because if God forbid something happens to this work, now your brand stand on its own. It's not, you're not as like me attached to this title or the, the, the one job that you had. Um, but the other thing that we're seeing, um,

is a trend that we're seeing the last few years is to create a portfolio career. So no matter if you're in a corporation or you have your business, if you can actually strategize a portfolio of income streams that will

actually ripple effects, it create this ripple. It can actually create like a really interesting snowball for your reputation, for your wealth, for your impact. And that's been a really, really interesting thing that we work a lot with clients. So again, the idea is just to get this incredible life for them. And it's exciting to see it. Risk is something that if people are going to take on risk,

they might need just a little bit more certainty in another area of their life. So they might say, well, you know, I'm not, I'm, I'm concerned about taking this leap because it's going to leave me with questionable income for six months. Maybe I'm finding a position that's got lots of options, but it's a startup and they're not going to be able to pay me as well. I have a certain lifestyle, by the way, bankers have told me this over and over again. People's lifestyle is the last thing that they will change before they go bankrupt. Right.

Like they will give up so many things that are that are appreciable, creative assets, you know, just to maintain their country club membership and the four cars that they have sitting in the drive and they can only drive one at a time.

But like people, people have a heart like lifestyles are very dangerous because, man, they never go backwards. The intent is, you know, because we all seek progress and negative progress is one of the greatest dissatisfactors in life.

And if you have to downsize and you're willing, you know, very few people actually have the courage to downsize that. So creating another income stream through a board seat, creating some long even some equity inside of that or some long term gain, creating some diversification probably would help people, you know, incorporate maybe a riskier decision, even starting a business, buying a franchise, whatever it is into that.

That's one observation. And then the other thing that I wanted to ask you is, are companies actively coming in and recruiting your leapers? Or do you have, I mean, it's like, okay, I mean, it would only make sense because you're having so much success and you have so many people that are enrolled in the program that immediately for me, it tells me that this person is willing to invest in themselves.

They're up to something and going somewhere. And because they haven't been kicked out of the program, they're actually following through on, right? And the next question is going to be, what do you have to do to get kicked out? But so...

But but I imagine that if you know, it's it's like it's like a training camp. People are going in there and they're going to work hard. And as they're working on themselves, that's that's if I'm an employer that really needs top notch people, tech, whatever it is, I'm going to come to you and say, who do you have?

Oh, yeah, for sure. So I'll say a few things, Jeff. And I think, first of all, you're spot on. I do believe leaping will become a habit. So if we're looking at the pace of change right now, people will change every year or two. Now, it could be that they're in the same company, but they'll still change responsibility, the tech that they're working with, the tool that they're working with, the functions. They're still going to have to adapt new things all the time. Just use...

It's never been the case. So we're going to see people. And now is this whole like plateau of opportunities to make income these days. There's just so much out there. So I do believe that we're going to see, and we're already seeing the trend, but I think we're going to see people leaping every year or two.

So it is coming at a pace that is really mind blowing. And I think it just becomes a skill that every single person will need to learn again and again and apply again and again. So you're, you're absolutely right. If somebody is not driven by definition, they will fall off. I don't believe that there is any more stuck in the world. Like I think if you,

think that you're stuck. We're actually losing relevance at a pace we've never seen before with a space of change. So if you're putting it all together, the people by definition need to be really, really, really driven. They want to, they need to not only level the playing field and catch up with where, you know, the, the,

pace of changes. Now they need to rise above the noise and that's not simple. So I do need people that are driven. I need people. I always love that there's no traffic jam in the extra mile. I need the people that will be in the extra mile that will rise above the noise that will roll up their sleeves.

And when they are, it's incredible. Yes, I want to hire all of them. So but we are seeing an incredible ecosystem, first of all, with people, you know, companies that are coming in and looking for. But also our leapers are everywhere. So we just had somebody that landed a VP in PayPal. The first thing he said is like, hey, I have you know, I need to hire two senior directors to my team. You know, I mean, it's an incredible hidden market.

So where is he going to look? First of all, he's going to look at, you know, his friends and, you know, our network. And only if he doesn't, now we can start looking outside. But that is the, you know, one of the first place they're going to look for. So it's an incredible thing. Yeah.

One of the first steps is, from what I understand, focusing on their vision and being crystal clear about their life. So first thing is clarity, right? Like, okay, you know, you as an example, 20 years in your career, you're

You're moving forward through a compensation structure. You're continuing to, you know, your roles and your accountability continues to go up as your skills and your capabilities improve and all of that. But it doesn't sound like you had a clear vision for how it was going to end.

Is that fair? Oh, oh, I don't know how to explain. The clear vision is, you know, if somebody would even paint the vision of what my life looks like, I would never believe it, Jeff. Right. It's that bad. Like it's a gap between where I was and where my life is right now.

is, is not even something that I can say in words. It's incredible. So no, that was not my vision. Um, you know, so are you absolutely right? I think my, you know, the clarity is a first piece. I mean, it's really taking into account your must-haves. First of all, what's really important for you. I mean, sometimes it's,

finance. You just need to make the cash. That's the most important element. And sometimes it's because you need the money. Sometimes it gives you confidence. I needed to make more than my husband. It really doesn't matter what the reasoning is, but sometimes it's cash. Sometimes it's

growth. Like you want to learn something new. You want to flourish. You want to change a function. You want to change an industry. You want reputation, maybe even fame. And that's okay. That's growth. Sometimes it's impact. I want to feel like I moved the needle. Sometimes it's balance for health, for kids, for whatever it is. And the interesting thing is no job will really give you all four. If you think you have a job that gives you all four, don't ever leave. Right. But no job will give you a four. Um,

But if you look at your life, you'll see that you're roaming between two of them every year or two or every few years. Again, it used to be a little longer for each one and now it's shorter. And if you're going to look a little bit, you'll see that it's morphing. And even if in the same role, maybe you started with, you know, I want financial stability, but I'm learning like crazy. So it sits on this growth area and now you're getting used to it. So it starts moving to the balance and maybe a little more impact, you know, so it's kind of changes.

even within the same role. So the very first thing is to understand what do I even want? What's important for me right now? And it's going to change every year or two. So you don't even need to look so far out, right? The other thing is the zone of genius. Like where do you really shine? And that's a really important piece of it. Gay Hendricks has an incredible book about it. But

The bottom line is, and we use a lot of techniques, but also some questions and things to really understand. But the most important thing, then you put it all together. And I think the big thing that changed in my life is when I realized that I can look at a career as an experiment because it's such a short change.

I can start looking at it as an experiment, not as a career decision. And that lifts a big weight off your shoulders. And I actually brought this from actually startups, right? Because after my exit, I did find myself kind of mentoring in Google, Startup Accelerators and Singularity University and speaking in Carnegie Mellon and a bunch of other things.

and it's really interesting because for some reason for startups, you know, that you're going to have to experiment to find the market fit, but we somehow don't morph it into the world of careers, but it makes so much sense, especially now. So now we're helping the, you know, our, you know, our clients and all these leapers to do some small experiments to kind of feel, is this really where I want to go? And if you do great, we go all in. And it's a,

great way to just make it as a habit and to do it again, again in life. Because I think right now, like if I want to join a board, I can join it. If I want to start a podcast, I post out a podcast and like it suddenly becomes this thing. Great. What do I need to do? Start a podcast. Get clarity. What I want to do story. How I do it. How do I broaden my network? How to build reputation? Boom. Next. Right. Like it just becomes this thing that you do again and again.

After you had your exit and then you started being invited to speak a lot more, was that when you really started building and focusing on your personal brand? Yeah, that was the, so, well, I'll take you back in time. When I initially thought I might raise capital for that startup, it was a tech startup that I started, um,

Um, and it wasn't a massive success, but it was good enough to, to, to take me a little forward. Um, but when I started that, um, I started at some point I was debating if I want to raise capital. Um,

And when I was actually looking and talking to investors, it was actually really interesting because I could see specific investors that already raised capital in the first one when I was kicked out. But now they were, you know, it frightened them. And so I was meeting them again and again and again. And after about three, four times, because again, they want me to meet me. They want to meet me, but they're not really putting the cash. Right. And at some point I just said, look,

Tell me flat out what's missing for you. And at some point they just said, look, right before you came in, we actually really like you. We like the company. We like your vision. Right before you came in, we Googled your name. We looked you up on LinkedIn. You have about 400 connections on LinkedIn. There's nothing in Google. Like we don't even know if these stories exist. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Okay. And at that point, just the sanity check, I'm going to, I'm going to put you into Google and see what pops up. There was nothing, Jeff. I was basically working a thousand percent for somebody else's success. Like I did not put even 5% of on my own, on reputation, on anything. My Facebook was my two and a half friends and my LinkedIn was a few other friends. That's all.

If I'm looking to leap inside of an organization or to an employment position in another organization, why is it important for me to build a personal brand?

Oh, such a great question, Jeff. I'll say a few things. So first of all, almost everything today is happening, especially mid to late stage career. It's all happening in what I call the hidden market. The chance of actually somebody mid to late stage career landing something from a job board is strong.

so minuscule, it's not even worth the effort. So what happens, the hidden market is basically who thinks about you when you're not in the room, right? So essentially, we all have a brand. And that's where people sometimes are mistaken. We all have a brand. And the brand is what people think about you when you're not in the room, you might not be building it. So that means that they probably not thinking about you in the right context.

But you all have a brand. So the problem there is that, you know, in the other hand, you is the easiest way to control the narrative, which is so, so strong. So if you do want to be seen as a leader, as an executive, as somebody that really knows AI, big data, whatever it is that you want to be known for.

It's the best way to control the narrative. But if you don't use it, then you're absolutely losing it. So, you know, the thing is that employers today, first of all, they're going to first ask, hey, who do you know that can come in as whatever director, VP, senior manager, whatever it is. So they first going to go to the network, to people they know, to their employees and

And that's where they're going to try to find someone. So first of all, people need to think about you in the right context. That's where reputation is. You have to be top of mind. So even if you posted one time six months ago, you're not top of mind for anybody. Everybody's moving 6,000 miles an hour today. So if you're not top of mind, they will not remember you.

So if you look at all of these things, you actually make it super hard for people to bring opportunities your way. Now, I'll take it even further. If you do have that reputation, this is where it becomes gold because now you come from more of a position of power to every conversation. You're more confident. They can see that confidence. Now you can negotiate your worth. You can negotiate better results.

titles, better terms. They're going to appreciate you more when you come in. They're going to, you know, like recognize you better. So it's, it's everybody wins, but it's so fundamental. I mean, whether we like it or not, 2007, we all became a media company for not using it. We lost. And again, I didn't lose it for a decade, but now it's time. Well, it's, it's so true because, and it's really just this simple concept of social proof.

And, you know, in our process, we manage everything up to including making sure we have the same waitstaff at the at our dinners that we have where we host candidates to come in. And, you know, that they know us and we know them and the people that are driving the transportation to and from the airport are people that we use all the time. And they'll engage with them and say this, you know, and it's it's just making sure that.

And that, you know, from every point possible that, you know, we are people that are known, that are liked, that are trusted. You know, and you do that through your social media. You do it through things like this.

You do it through, you know, other people that are already in the academy or in our system, you know, providing testimonials or engagement or whatever it is. But it's basically, you know, people are testing to see, is it, you know, am I okay to engage with this person? And if, you know, where the internet is today, if you don't show up anywhere for anything, then that's probably a huge red flag, right?

Right. Because like, where did you even, where did you even come from? You know, but, but if you, it's true though, you know, I've Googled people that I was going to be meeting with and it's like, man, I can't find anything on this person. Like what are, what have they been doing or not doing? Not a, not a, not an article, not a post, not a, you know, you know, announcement about a position or, or anything like that. So,

Yeah, very relevant. And I think I think great, a great realization for people that, you know, it's a blind spot. People are like, you know, I'm just I'm building I'm building my reputation through my work. And but, you know, it doesn't you're making it you're putting too much work on the people that you want to influence.

I mean, and even if you even if you have a big online presence, right, you can't assume that the people that you want to influence are going to are going to land on the piece of content.

that you that they need to see so it's really inc now the part of it is if you have so much stuff out there you don't know what they're going to land on so you really have to make sure that you're you know you're finding a way to put the right stuff on the right people at the right time so that they can be informed uh why they should engage with you

Oh, that is so, so, so true, Jeff. Like, I can't tell you how many times we, you know, I've seen people that I wanted to introduce them or to help them. And, you know, I mean, this is, I can't introduce you. You just either wrote me a hundred paragraphs of something that is irrelevant or, you know, or you, you didn't put the links, you didn't put the, I mean, this is, I

I can't be the person doing the work. You need to make it the work. You do the work for us. If you want the introduction. And the other thing is, yes, make it easy on people. Like I can't stress it enough because the big thing is also, are you known for what you want to be known for? Right. And that's also when you reinvent yourself,

you will find yourself known for the wrong things. Because again, at some point I was known for the cloud data center business person that invests and now I want to be known for a leap academy, right? So there's also a shift, but if you do this right and you're very strategic, very intentional with every move you make, it will actually happen a lot faster than anybody realizes. But I think just most people don't realize how and just don't take the action.

I think it's well known that every business owner, every small business owner needs to be a media personality in the face of their business. But it's a little counterintuitive that people that are leaping within corporate America need to consider that as well.

Right. Yeah. And I think in today's world, it's inevitable. You have to. It's not a nice to have anymore. It's a must have. Absolutely. You have career transition coaches. I took a spin through the website. And is Kelly Doyle working with you?

I think. Yeah. Heather Doyle. Yes. Oh, Heather. Okay. You know what? Then that's not the person that I knew because there was actually a very, very successful coach here in Charlotte. So career transition coaches, what is their role in your organization and are they the front lines with your clients?

Well, if you ask about Heather, I will say the one thing, first of all, she was, I don't know if you know, IPEC, that's like the main coaching school for all the coaches. And she was actually the chief operating officer for all of IPEC. And she came to work for me because she believes so much in what we're doing. So first of all, she's incredible. But I will say, first of all, it's really, it was really important for me to bring only people who have walked the walk.

And because one of the biggest issues that I've had before is that, again, the people that I was looking at didn't inspire me. So we have people that ran a 600 person department themselves and decided to be a coach. We have somebody that was a top results coach for Tony Robbins. We have, you know, like, so it was really, really important for me that every single person have walked the walk in a very substantial way.

And again, their big role is, you know, to look if there's some there's usually some weight that is holding people back. They might not realize it and they might think, oh, I'm missing the strategies. I'm missing the strategy. So that's what happened to me, Jeff. When I wanted to start Leap, the fear was numbing. I'm not going to lie. And even though I did some pretty daring things in my life.

suddenly being known for this was scary because what if it doesn't work? And what if I make a mistake? And what if people don't like it? And what if I fail?

And I always laugh that at some point I sat and binge watched Grey's Anatomy for hours and watched Netflix because the fear was numbing. And I kept thinking, I don't have the strategies. I don't have the strategy. But the truth is, Jeff, the strategy was really simple. I just need to write one post. Hi, friends, this is what I decided to do now. So the strategy was really simple, but the fear was numbing. And what we realized is that really, really good

good mindset coaches, performance coaches can really help you find the things that are holding you back and push you forward. And on top of this, we have branding coaches and executive coaches and entrepreneurship coaches, et cetera. So we do have a really broad spectrum. So it's just incredible. Yeah. Great talent on the website. I went through the bios and you've got just the right person, just the right who for just the right what.

And it's very, very comprehensive offering there. So so if I what's the application process? Because I'll be signing up for to be a leaper. I don't I don't know where I'm going to leap to, but I just I want to go somewhere with you guys. So what what is the application process?

So there is a website and basically you just look at a short 30 minute training if you want. If not, we just book you a call with you. But usually people want to just check to see if they, you know, they match with it. So they go to a free training.

And if that resonates, they book a short career strategy call with us. We understand the team will understand exactly where they are now, exactly where they want to go. And if we can help, we strategize exactly how and we explain how this works.

And if we can't help, we send them to one of our loving partners. But in your case, Jeff, I think we're going to do some really fun partnership here. So I am very much looking forward to it. Yeah, I'm excited. I can see at least one strong collaboration that we can do. Actually, two that I'd like to speak with you about.

Well, Ilana, what questions is there anything that I should have asked you that I haven't? And is there anything that typically comes up with candidates on a call that you think they should know?

No, I will just say to everybody, every single person that is listening, if you're contemplating whether you're the best version of yourself, if you're debating if there's more to you, if you think that if you stay exactly where you are within a decade or two, you're going to have massive regret. The only thing that I will say is

First of all, it takes one phone call to even just assess this, right? Like, let's understand. It's a free conversation. It will give you clarity no matter what.

But to me, you know, at the end of the day, it's just amazing what's possible. And one of my favorite slogans is it's not about what we make. It's about what we make possible. And I'm just so excited about what we're making possible. But also every single human can make possible in the world for themselves and just live an incredible life because that's what it's about. OK, where can people reach out and get in touch with you or Leap Academy?

Ilana at leapacademy.com. Okay. Yeah. I mean, just send an email. My team will take care of you and just looking forward to changing more lives. Yep. And I'm sure that if you, uh, if you go to the Google that you and leap academy will pop up, uh, because I did that last question. If you had one sentence to make an impact in somebody's life, what would that be? Hmm.

I think one of them is what I just shared, but I will say everything is possible. And there is a new possible right now that if you just going to open your eyes and you're going to know how you can absolutely change the second part of your life. And any single person that is driven should be in that driver's seat, should be intentional, should be strategic. And the sky's the limit today. Perfectly said. We'll end on that. Thank you so much for being on today.

Jeff, you are amazing. Thank you for a beautiful show as always. It's been so much fun. It's been an honor and a pleasure. And I'm so excited for all the people that you're helping. All right. Well, this is Jeff Duden and we have been with Ilana Golan and we have been on the home front. Thank you for listening.