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So are we supposed to start the podcast? Ready? One, two, three. I mean, it's going to be a great day. It is. Oklahoma City, because we have a guest who's flown from Atlanta, Georgia. AKA Hotlanta. In the home of Fonny Willis, which is my favorite part of it. I love the way she spells her name. I do too. She's a bad bitch. The HGTV star Brian Patrick Flynn is here in Oklahoma City.

I went to dinner with Brian and his husband Hollis last night in Oklahoma City. You got his name right. That's right. I've got a still trap memory. I believe it. Yeah, still traps right here, Brian. I do not. And so you kind of toured around Oklahoma City a little bit yesterday. What are your thoughts?

I was blown away. So there's there until yesterday, there were eight states I hadn't gone to and Oklahoma was one of them. And then I just reached out to you randomly. I never I really just asked you to have dinner. I really wanted to come knock this off my list. And you're like, do you want to take the podcast? And I thought, I thought you were kidding. And I was like, yeah, but I'm not I don't want I really just want to have dinner. But so this is like a total treat.

Well, we're so glad you're here. It's always fun to have an in-studio guest. Yeah, the energy's better. It is. It's better. It's totally different. But what we like to do, Brian, is just kind of do some petty grievances off the bat so the audience can kind of release some frustration. Yeah.

And so, Pumps, you go first. What have you had it with this week? Okay, what I've had it with, and your dog, my precious Tebbs, is the biggest offender. Fucking crop dusting. Like people or dogs that walk by you, let a silent fart, and your whole nose starts like running. The nose hairs fry off. It's so bad. And it's not just Tebby. I was in the airport security line not long ago.

And a guy walked by me and crop dusted me. And I was just like, oh my God. And the line wasn't moving and I couldn't move. And I was like, my eyes were watering. It was so terrible. Okay. I remember this. I can't remember where we were, but we were traveling for our tour and you and Kylie don't have TSA and I have TSA. So y'all were in a different line, but we kind of pass at some point, like the TSA and the non TSAs pass.

and pumps has this like look on her face and she whispers as loud as she possibly can which when pumps whispers loudly it's almost like a yell she's like this guy just crop tested and the guy's standing right there and she's like hovering pointing down on him and i was like oh boy yeah no it's bad i just think it's so rude i almost would rather somebody be like

I just farted. I'm so sorry. I would just be like, you know what? It happens. What would you do in that instance? I mean, to be honest, what would I do? I would crop dust. Because I wouldn't want to, I mean, you know. Would you announce the dusting? You're in the TSA line. Rotten egg smell starts permeating. Do you act like it's Kylie or me? Or do you just announce to everybody in line that you just crop dusted? Here's the deal. If I would have thought about it, I would blame it on you.

But I would look back and be like, I'm so sorry. But knowing myself the way I do, I would probably just say, oh my God, you guys, I'm so sorry. My stomach is not feeling well. Totally my bad. I think I would silent act like I didn't do it and probably like...

smell a little bit and be like, ugh. And I would act like I had nothing to do with it, that I was with them and they're disgust. How would you handle that? I really hope this never happens to me. I think this is why people fly private. First of all, the fact that this is a thing is blowing my mind. I'm glad that I haven't experienced it yet. But

But I don't really have an answer because my mind is trying to comprehend. I don't know what I would do. I don't even know at that point, what if that person being the one assigned the seat next to you? Because you have to make eye contact with them again. And that's not a good thing. I hate this whole thing. I hate the whole thing. But see, Brian, here's what I'd like to do on an airplane. I like to act like I'm in

invisible, and everybody else on the plane is invisible. There's no eye contact. There's no... Like, if we both have the arms on the armrest, it's like neither one of us have an arm. I mean, I just...

I completely act like I'm in my own bubble and no one else exists. Oh, man. We are flying soulmates. I don't want any eye contact. No. Same with bathrooms. I'm sorry. I agree. Also, when I'm using the plane, because I fly so much and I'm so tall, I always get upgraded to first class. I'm not bragging. It's just I fly every week. Right. What I love is when you're – I usually fly Delta because I'm in Atlanta. There's only like six rows in first class. Usually, what I love is when you're getting up to go to the bathroom, you're facing the bathroom, not looking at people. Right.

One of my biggest stressors is when you face up and you walk towards the back of the plane and people know, hey, they're headed to the bathroom. Right. And they can count down how long you've been in there. Yeah. And it's like the countdown of shame. Right. So this – I understand where you're going with this and I have a lot of thoughts on it. But I would – I'm like you. I like to be invisible and I want everybody else to be invisible and don't make eye contact. Yeah.

Yeah. Kylie, our producer, intentionally dehydrates prior to flying. Yes. So that she doesn't have to use the restroom. And we went to London a few months ago.

And she did not pee the entire flight from, where did you fly out of? Houston? Houston, yes. Houston to London. She did not pee not one time. That's how dehydrated she was. But I remember this. On the flight back, she did. Yes. She had one. Bested out. That's right. So I told you, I'm like the Michael Rapaport of the I've Had It podcast. So.

So I know how to spell her name correctly. It's not like Jenner. It's K-I-L-E-Y. That's right. And she's from Stillwater, which I'm aware of everything. I watch you guys. I watch and listen to you religiously as well as Heather McMahon and then also the Dax Shepard podcast. Those are the three that I listen to. See, this is what I want to talk to our listeners about. Sometimes they're lackluster listeners and they say stuff like, how did Pumps get her nickname?

Why has pumps lost so much weight? So the last several podcasts, I've just started off. Welcome to I've Had It. It used to be Angelina Pumpkin Tina. Then it was Tina Full of Pumps. Now it's Pumps.

She's basically injecting Mongero every chance she can get, hence the weight loss. Because they just ask us over and over again, because I think we have some lackluster listeners. But your ambition in listening to the podcast is nothing short of exemplary. Absolutely. It's a five gold star situation. I really appreciate this. I've been working really hard on it. Let me tell you guys what I've had it with. Since you're an interior designer and I'm an interior designer, I'm going to tell you what I've had it with. Please. The color of the year.

Oh, I didn't know that was a thing. It's a lot to know about. Do people ask you your opinion or like, hey, what's the color of the year so I can have it in my house? So sometimes if I have to do press, the journalist will be like, and what do you think about the color of the year? And my answer is, I think it's irrelevant because you want to choose things that have longevity. You want to choose a paint color that has longevity. The color of the year

is only going to be that color for that year. And then it's going to be replaced 365 days later. The baby Jennifer Welch designer would have chosen the color of the year and got leaned into trends. But the more sophisticated,

mature version of myself. I want to pick things that are in the house that are going to age well. So I avoid the color of the year and I've had it with the color of the year. I think it's a racket. I think it's capitalism on speed. I want nothing to do with it. And when it comes out, I'm like,

Fuck that color. It's so funny. We're so different on this. So I prefer – I have a favorite color that I've been using my whole career. But one of the things I appreciate about – especially like when Pantone comes out and does like – back in 2015, there were two colors of the year for Pantone. One was like a periwinkle and the other was kind of like a cross between blush and purple. Yeah.

And I thought it was interesting that there were very specific colors. But what I do appreciate about it and what it can do is I think sometimes those people that are stuck in the box of beige, their mind opens to, oh, I can use coral tones or I can use turquoise. And I think it pushes people out of their comfort zone. But I see your point. If it's of the year, it's like at what point. But I also think it is smart to get people thinking outside of the box. But I understand. I see your point of view. I get excited about it still now.

Because a lot of times it's one that I use. Because if it's something that I use a lot, because I don't do a lot of beige, I do a lot of black and white. When somebody comes out and starts using like a mustard or even like, let's say a khaki that has a little green in it and I just use it in a room, I'm like, finally, show people this color can be done well. I see both sides of the

I like it. I like your optimism. Okay, so who does the color of your pans, you said? Pantone. Pantone. And then what is like the 2024 color? Do we know yet? I don't think Jennifer or I know because I think most fashion people do it right away because it becomes something that you want to capitalize on because it's not out there. So it's usually a color that's been missing from the masses. So then they will put it out in fashion and usually interiors fall right behind. Do you agree with me? Yes, I agree.

Yeah, I agree. I had no idea there was a color of the year. So what have you had it with? Email anxiety, which is a word that I started to coin because I understand that email from the beginning was meant to... It's very efficient. I love it. But now when I'm out in the field, I don't want to look at email on my phone. Do you agree? Totally. It needs to be on my laptop or a desktop because I can fully respond. When I have to truncate and read an email...

While I'm on the go, on an installation, taping something, shopping for something, my brain can't switch to, hey, let's focus on giving them a really well-researched answer. And I've had it with that because I want to do one thing. But nowadays, we have to do seven things at once. And I can't. It's starting to age me. I'm 100% with you on that. Yesterday, we filmed a lot for the podcast. And when I have to, my brain, I am best when I am thinking about the thing that I'm about to do. And Kylie came downstairs and she was like, okay, let's prep for, and it was for our one o'clock filming. And I was just like,

I can't do that. I have to get the eight o'clock filming out from under me. And then after that, I'm all chips in on the one o'clock filming, the 1 p.m. I can't. And so I'm with you. If I'm on an installer, I'm meeting with clients and I look at my email box. I don't even really like to return emails that much from my phone. I agree. I like to do it from a desktop or a laptop because I feel more engaged.

with the email. Plus, I'm just not a big fan of constant communication all the time. I don't want to be available all the time to everyone. I've noticed that with your Instagram. So I follow you on Instagram, but I think Kylie does your Instagram, right? Assists. I would say the majority of what I post, unless it's posted of my kids,

Kylie sent me the stuff to post. I'm not 100% on all that. I'm for that, though. Do you agree, Jennifer? I think it's pretty cool that she's not doing it because I hate that it's become part of my daily routine. What's the return on the investment for me to look at my Instagram 16 times a day? Right. No. The great thing about the podcast is Kylie runs the I've Had It podcast, the TikTok podcast.

all the stuff. And so our personal Instagrams, we don't really try to promote that much because we're just promoting the pod more. So neither one of us are these prolific Instagrammers. Now I enjoy Instagram because there's a lot of things that I look at interior design wise. Um,

There's a lot of dog influencers. Great joy. There's a lot of travel stuff. There's a lot of tennis videos. There's a lot of pickleball videos that bring me great joy. Specifically, I've really enjoyed these dog influencers because I've had it with people influencers. Oh, I think we've all had it with people. I follow Samoyed and this guy, he's been to like 40 countries.

That's a white dog? Yes. And he smiles. It's a big white dog. He's traveled all over. He's everywhere, this dog. And he's one of my favorite followers. So I'm really into the dog influencers right now. Like if a person did half the shit the dog did, I would hate that person's account. Yet I would probably spend some time looking into every individual post that I hated. Right. When I get over to the dogs, they're grandstanding, showboating. This one dog is...

traveled more than I have in his short life. And I have nothing but joy for him and all of his adventures. And I would even say I like following his journey. And we all know how I feel about journeys. You don't like journeys. Not a journey person. But when it comes to a dog, they get to do all the shit that drives me crazy with humans. I'm with Jennifer. And I also think that a dog is welcome to end its name with E-I-G-H. And it wouldn't bother me.

You know what I mean? I agree. If the dog was Ashley, it's spelled that way, or Brontley, I would be like, you know, it's cool. You're a dog. You're a Samoyed. You've been to 40 countries. You can spell your name how you want. And it's cool. Braxley. Braxley. Braxley. That's beautiful. I promote that. B-A-R-K-S-L-E-I-G-H. All right. Let's hear. Brian, we like to have Kylie read comments about our podcast to us, and so we want you to weigh in. So Kylie, what's going on on the World Wide Web? Since you brought up the Husky, I'm going to start with this five-star review we got.

called This Podcast Has Ruined Me. I've been listening to this podcast for about six months, and I can confidently say these two have changed me for the worse. For example, this entire time when Pumps was speaking about shaving her Siberian husky, I truly believed it was a metaphor for her vagina. Ha ha ha!

From now on, listener, we will always refer to Pumps' vagine as the Siberian Husky. That is fantastic. Are they still going? That's it. That's it. That's amazing. Oh, my God. I mean, that is amazing. That is incredible. Pumps and the Siberian Husky. Shaved it right up. It could be the name of a porn. It could be. Pumps and the Siberian Husky. The shaved Siberian Husky. To shave or not to shave. Yeah. Yeah.

And what's interesting, this morning on the way here, I made an appointment for Blaze to be shaved. So are you getting waxed? No, it's really for the dog. But that's the funniest thing I've ever heard. It's just not a far stretch either with you two. It really isn't. And you know what I love about this comment? We've made the person worse. They still give us five stars that they just are swimming and basking in.

And what a terrible person we've made this person be. And I admire that. She owns it. Kylie did say to us the other day, I say a lot of things now out loud I would never have said before I met you guys. What did you say? Something to that effect. I mutter some stuff when we're out in public about people. I'm like, I think they're making me worse. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah. You want to get out of Oklahoma City as quickly as you can, Brian. I've got three hours to run, by the way. That's right. You need to run for your life.

All right. What's next, Kylie? All right. I have a comment from Alpha 677. And they write, these women are proof that the phrase, with age comes wisdom, is not always true. What I like about that is the guy's...

Bio name is alpha something. Right. Which you immediately know he is a thin skinned beta male with what pumps? Teeny weenie. Yep. That's what you know. Anytime there's an alpha male in the thing, you automatically know soft serve teeny weenie.

The worst. Yeah. Can I just give you guys mad credit for, including you, Kylie, for how you handle the comments. I feel like even like back to Jimmy Kimmel days, not the other one, not Johnny Kimmel. Who's the other one? Jimmy Fallon. Yeah. When he would do, when celebrities would come on and read their mean tweets. Mean tweets. I love that.

You truly are laughing at it. Y'all who are listening, listener, look at me. I'm playing Jennifer's role. It's just incredible how you let it roll off. You seem completely unfazed by it. And it says so much about your confidence that you don't care. You really are laughing at it. I think it's a beautiful thing. Thank you. Thank you. I think it's hilarious. And we just get so tickled that somebody would take the time and the care to come hate on us.

On the internet. Like, I mean, it's just, we're two complete morons. We agree with half the shit these people say about us. So, you know. I love this. I just think it speaks volumes about your confidence and the fact that it just rolls off your back because it doesn't matter to you, which is amazing. Thank you. Thank you. That's sweet. I gotta say, I don't really get hate comments, Brian. So. No, Kylie's comments are always like, she's got a fabulous voice. She's sexy. And they have crushes on her. Everybody has a crush on Kylie. That's a huge crush.

Someone did comment and they said, I can't believe how old Kylie is. I thought she was going to be young. Aren't you 28, 27? You look 24. That's ridiculous. She looks like a baby, doesn't she? Permanent record. All right, the last one, five stars, titled Simply the Best. Jessica and her old lesbian sidekick are just top notch. I agree with that.

You are. You are. Old lesbian sidekick here. Because Brian and I were talking last night at dinner a lot about the age difference. Brian and I are real close to the same age. How much older you are. It's a different generation. Jennifer was saying it's a different generation. She was saying we are definitely millennials and that you're a boomer. And I'm like, I don't think.

I think Angie's only about three years older than us. Right. Yeah, she likes to act like it's five decades. It's just, it comes out a lot when we're doing the podcast. Because she brings it up. She just found out recently what a fluffer was. I didn't know. I know what that is. And I'm like, I don't know, I'm like a pilgrim when it comes to that stuff. But I know what it is because there's a movie called that when I was in film school. There was actually a movie that was titled that was the guy's job. Fluffing? Yeah. Does he...

Or is it just the set? Listener, just so you know, Pabst just did a hand job. Oh, okay, okay. So the only reason I know that is because there's a movie called it when I was in film school. Yeah, I had no idea. I was bragging about how I'm a great fluffer because I like to get in my jommies and fluff up my pillows and watch a show. Well, fluffing pillows is a thing. So I can see how it could be kind of a term that can use multiple ways. He doesn't pick on me. Sweet. If I don't live here, it might be different.

Do you suffer from having a parasocial relationship with two barely competent middle-aged women?

If so, please go to I've had it podcast.com or to any social media site. I'm talking X, formerly Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, et cetera, and click the link in bio and come see us at the hot shit tour. Make your parasocial relationship real at the hot shit tour. Right pumps. Tell them it's so fun. We hope to see you there.

Pumps, I can imagine when you get to be your age that you have to visit the doctor quite a bit to stay on top of your health. How do you manage finding a doctor for each segment of your health that you need to address as you get older? I will tell you, Jenny, ZocDoc.

It is the most fabulous app because it lets me shop for great doctors that take my insurance that are located close to me that have positive reviews. You know, I've read about ZocDoc and what I like about it is all of these docs have verified reviews from actual real patients.

You can book an appointment with tens of thousands of top rated patient reviewed, credible doctors and specialists. I can imagine that this has just been a godsend for you pumps. Listener, go to ZocDoc.com slash I've had it and download the ZocDoc app for free. Then find and book a top rated doctor today. That's Z-O-C-D-O-C.com slash I've had it.

ZocDoc.com slash I've had it. Pumps, your hair lately is straight up 10 out of 10. Share with the listener and with me what's going on. I have been using the new hair products created by Jennifer Aniston, Lola V, and I absolutely love the shampoo and conditioner. The conditioner is the best I've ever used.

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Please support our show and tell them that we sent you. Okay. So what I want to move to now is we had dinner last night. Yeah. And I want to give our listener a little background. So you married your husband at dinner with Brian and his husband, Hollis, and y'all got married in 2017 in Antarctica. Yeah. That's really specific. Tell the listener why you

You wanted to get married in Antarctica because I worship the reasoning behind all of this. So I was born and raised in Florida. I'm from South Florida, from Fort Lauderdale, specifically Parkland, which is way out by the Everglades. It's more suburban. And I'm not a person who likes vacations that have to do with the beach and the sun and the sand. I can't stand sand. I don't like the way it feels. I don't like the way it smells. I don't like the way... I don't like anything about sand. But I knew that... And I'm not a big wedding person. I don't like the whole attention thing where...

there's a bunch of people around and everybody cares about what they're wearing. And somebody is being so super, super like,

plucked to look this way. I don't like formality. And when I started to think that we'd been together for a good 10, 11 years at the time, I was kind of like, let's get married. And I kept thinking, I've always wanted to go to Antarctica because it was the opposite of Florida. And I didn't know you could go there. I just found out in my late 20s it's possible to go. So after about two years of research, it's really hard to get there. We did it. And we got there and we brought a photographer friend with us. And the reason that I loved it so much is like,

You know, people spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on weddings for a venue and the clothes and the people and the flowers.

And I was like, how cool would it be to just do this as an experience, no formality whatsoever, with the most incredible wedding photos you'd ever have because it doesn't look like this planet. And we got down there and it was summer. It was in the 50s. The sun was out. It's like 24 hours of daylight. And I just kept thinking like I love the whole like analogy, like penguins mate for life. And that's where the penguins live. I love that. I love the penguins mate for life. That's so romantic. Yeah, I love penguins. And I follow a lot of penguin accounts as well.

Gosh, you are so good at animal accounts. I didn't know that there was. There's a whole Antarctica like account with like these penguins and they follow the penguins. And I really love penguins. I love a lot of animal accounts on Instagram. But I think we just kind of.

You know, glazed over the most important thing you said is that you don't like all of this attention and this focus and everybody worried about all of this stuff and this group activity that is a wedding. It's a racket, as you would say. Oh, it's a racket. And we spend a lot of time talking about the narcissism that comes with a wedding that then it detracts from.

like it being about the couple, because then you've got, you know, the mother, the mother-in-law and all of these other forces that be. But, you know, this brings up something we've touched on this in the podcast before, but I kind of want to resurrect it a little bit. And it is when people get married and then they use those photographs to

for years as fraud. Right. Like it's Father's Day. So then the wedding picture with the dad walking on the aisle comes up. And like these wedding photos get blasted for like five or so years. But the Antarctic wedding photos, I would enjoy seeing that. Those are timeless. You know, you're really taking into account not only your and Hollis' feelings by doing this together away from everybody, but

But it was really, you took into account the feelings of all the people that love you by saying, guess what? You can't come. I think that is a great way to show love. You don't have to come. You don't have to buy anything. You don't have to spend money on a hotel. You don't have to worry about getting your hair blown out. Thank you for saying that because I felt like I was saving people a lot of time and effort. Absolutely. It was nothing short of a love message both to your husband and to everybody else.

And I'm glad that you appreciate pretty photos because there's one thing to get married at a venue that's like a hotel or something. And there's images. There's one thing to go on the beach, which, you know, when the families wear the matching shirts and all that. I wanted the opposite of all that. I wanted just the background to speak for itself. And the good thing is it was...

there's been so much incredible, like there was a lot of support online for us because a lot of people were like, wow, I never thought of going there. And it's nice to have like wedding photos. A lot of people pin and look at again and again, just because the backdrop is so dreamy, but I'm with you. I see what you mean. People do the same image for their whole life. And it's like, we've seen that already. Oh my God. It's rolled out. I mean, you know, when somebody gets married,

Their entire Instagram feed for the next three years is going to be nothing but a slow drip of this wedding. And you've seen – if you've seen two of the wedding photos, it's like, I get it. Yeah. Let's refresh our content. We need to stir the pot here. Get a dog. Do something new or you're getting the big mute. Yeah. A dog or a penguin. A penguin. Specifically one that's traveled to 40 countries would be nice, right? That would be so nice. Exactly. Well, and the expense that – I mean, not saying it wasn't expensive, but –

You have an experience that will last forever. One thing I get frustrated with about how expensive weddings are, it's like, and then it's done. The flowers die. Yeah.

You know, it's just not that nuanced or anything. But I feel like Antarctica, I would be all down with that. That might even be somewhere fun to go. How long did it take you to get there? It's, well, you're not guaranteed. This is the thing about Antarctica. There's no guarantee you'll even make it. To answer your question, though, we had to fly down to Chile. And then there was like a 72-hour possibility of us being ready. So we flew down there. And then it turns out the weather conditions were so perfect, about a day and a half

before the day we were supposed to go. We had to be ready that day within like an hour. So we even had to leave like luggage and stuff behind. This was my wedding. So it's chaotic, but the chaos is beautiful because you're going to this place on the planet nobody goes to. But it was about a year and a half to two years of planning. And then it was overall about three or four days to get down there. And then getting back was a lot easier because you stop in Santiago, Chile, and then you fly. I could fly directly from Atlanta from there, but I would do it again in a heartbeat.

I loved it. I actually, I think it would be fun to take kids there because it's such a weird experience. So I want to get, I want to segue next into what you were sharing with me last night. And there's just a huge announcement for you and your husband and for all of your fans that follow your design account and career. And journey. And journey. Because there is a manifestation in the works. Yeah. We are eight weeks away from our first child. That is so cool.

That is so exciting. Congratulations. It's insane. Yeah, we're at 31 weeks right now. We haven't gone public with it at all because we've been... The whole surrogacy process and the egg donation process, it's a lot of science and it's a lot of learning. And so we've kept it really tight for the past two years. We ended up finding an agency three years ago. Two friends of mine own it. They started it specifically for LGBT people because when they started to go and try to have

embryos created years ago, all of the paperwork and all the rules were, what's the mom's name? What's the dad's name? But it's like, well, what about what if it's a mom and a mom or dad and dad or a single person? So they created this agency called Elevate. It's out of California, which is the opposite of where we live. It was very far. But the thing was, they make it an easy process for same-sex couples to be able to go out there and not have to deal with all the weird stuff that... Imagine how pissed you'd be if you were filling out a paper and you didn't exist on it.

like it says, you know, I'm not married to a woman. I'm married to a man. So, uh, and then, uh, so we met them, we knew they were right. And they, uh, okay. I want to, I want to break this down because I think this is fascinating. I think it's interesting. And I think it is such a marvel of modern science. And I think it's amazing for the LGBTQ plus community that, um, agencies like this. So I'm going to ask the questions that everybody would want to ask. Okay. So you and Hollis, uh,

decide you want to have a child. And so you have to find, you obviously have to go whack in a cab. It's so weird. It's part of the process. Yeah. So my nephew recently did this and he had to go into the whack room and there was a straight porn in there. So I'm wondering, was, was there any gay friendly activities in the whack room? I very much am type A with controlling my environment. I,

I am one of those people that if you make eye contact with me, even though I'm just going to go pee in the urinal, I can't. I can no longer... Don't look at me. Stench fright. So when you go into the room that you just mentioned and there's somebody eight feet outside the door, it's something that's remarkably personal. I agree. It'd be weird. I was like...

Did you not think about the environment? So A, it is the ugliest room I've ever seen with the most hideous furniture. And then there's a collection of DVDs, which I don't even know how to use anymore. Right. So I had to, basically, I remember going outside and saying, hey, this is not going to happen. Like, is there another alternative? They're like, you can do the home option. I'm like, why did you tell us that?

Why was that not up front? Yeah. It's similar to – especially like when you're a woman and you're donating your eggs, it's super invasive. It's outpatient surgery basically. But they treat the guy part so whimsically. And I'm like, no, it's a lot more complicated than that. But I don't know. I was so creeped out, Jennifer, that I lasted maybe three minutes and I'm like, I give up. Let's just let these be Paul's embryos because the room creeped me out so much and the whole idea of the task with a stranger outside the door, I couldn't deal with it. So I gave up. Okay. So you have –

as two gay men, you both...

Okay. First you found an egg donor, right? Yes. There's two sides of an agency. So do you shop in like a catalog and look at the images of these people? I could talk about... I love the enthusiasm from all you... Even Kylie's like body positioning right now. Like people are genuinely interested in this. Absolutely. I could talk about it for hours, but I'm not an expert because I'm not a scientist and I'm obsessed with science and facts. That's my world. Right. So what I learned about it is there's agencies that do both. There's one that we're with Elevate has one side that is all egg donation, one side that's all

Surrogates are also called gestational carriers. Okay. And so the way that it works is – I'm fascinated by this. When you're choosing an egg donor, sometimes it's a little bit – it's more surface than choosing a surrogate. So you are – the first thing is everybody's been screened for genetics. These people have incredible genes. They weed out any type of hereditary bacteria.

diseases. Okay. That's nice. It's incredible. And then also, I don't think you can be past 31 for most agencies. That's how old you have to be to donate your eggs. So you're still on the younger side. Okay. So when you look, when you're looking through, there's not an actual book. What are you looking through? So you get a password to the site where you get to go in and look at all the profiles. And all the profiles are

are a headshot of a person and then a number below it. You have no idea where they live, what their name is. Other ones also do it where you see a picture of just them as a child. So you know what your child will look like, which I think is brilliant. So my mind was blown. Hollis and I, our jaws were on the floor for the first two weeks because he had a specific egg donor he was obsessed with who had never done it before. And the one that I wanted already yielded over three successful children from her egg donation. And I'm like, this is tried and true. It's going to happen.

We knew basically I'm one of three. I'm number three out of four kids. I just lied. I'm number three out of four. Yeah.

Which is the opposite of what I just said. And Hollis is an only child. So my sisters both have multiple children and my sisters are incredible moms. My brother is also not having children. So the good news is that my family lineage, it keeps going. Right. Hollis is an only child and his father's no longer with us. He's the end of his lineage. So I thought a really beautiful part of our story being together almost 20 years would be like, we're going to do something that keeps your lineage out there. So we both decided to make embryos by looking at pictures of the...

the donors. So we're looking at the pictures and you find out like maybe what they do for a living, how many kids are in their family. Okay. But in her case, she was super healthy, is from Ireland, which is kind of important to me because we're super Irish. And look at my name. Was her egg extracted from Ireland? Or is she an Irish American? Oh, good question. She has a really strong Irish accent. Okay.

Okay. She's Irish-Irish. Yes. So how many eggs did her heart... I know when they would extract eggs from somebody, how many did you get from her before the sperm were contributed? That's a good... I don't remember. I know that it was a lot. So one of the reasons that you... When you're going for an egg donor, you know they're going to produce. I believe it was more than 10. I think it might have been maybe in the 12 to 14 range, which is legit. And then there's screening. So there might be less than a good...

your seed and Hollis's seed. And I've heard in the past that sometimes gay men will mix the sperm up. I've heard that too. And then implant. And y'all did not do that, correct? No.

So here's where the myths come in. I thought – so there's something called the gay man's special and it's a term that was used out of nowhere and a lot of our gay friends and people we know, they'll have boy-girl twins. And what happens is when they impregnate the surrogate, they use one of the guy's embryos and another one.

And when you have the children, all of a sudden you can tell, wait, the girl looks like me. The boy looks like him. And that would have been our dream too. That's the gay man special. Yeah, because you're having two kids at once. And then you have one that is genetically from each of you, which is a perfect way to do it. Right. That's great. That's pretty smart. It's brilliant. Except you have to have twins at the end. I know. So think about the gestational carrier too, who's giving birth to two twins. Right. It's redundant to say two twins. I've realized that recently. But yeah.

But so in our case, we ended up with six good ones. Okay. Five were girls. One was a boy. And then they go through a whole nother round of testing because they are so- Another question. Yes. How many of the six were Brian seed and how many were Hollis seeds? Four Brian, two Hollis.

Okay. Four brine, two hollis. Okay. So then they embed the first embryo into your surrogate who is different from your egg donor. So now at this point, we have- I know. See? At this point in the game, listener and pumps, Kylie, there is two gay men, right? Two sets of sperm. Gotcha. There is the Irish egg donor.

donor. Okay. Where they have taken the eggs out of her body. It's gone to a lab. They've taken the semen out. He had to do the homework assignment part, not the in lab part. And then they, now they have made six embryos for Brian to Hollis. Now, where are we going to implant the embryo? Now we have a new person involved, which is the surrogate. Okay. So now you have a surrogate who's not the egg donor. Uh-uh.

Now we have another person and then y'all embed the first embryo and whose seed was that? The first one was mine. So the way that we did it was we made a plan that some surrogates will tell you at first if they're cool with carrying twins. And a lot of them will say, we are welcome to do two, three, four embryos and hope for the best and I'll carry your twins. There's others that are like,

If we naturally get pregnant with twins, we'll have them. And in our case, it was more like, I will only do it if let's do one embryo. So we did. It was my embryo. And the thing that's so fascinating about going with an agency is they teach you all the psychology and all of the counseling behind it. So we were taught, I know nothing about the female anatomy. I've been, I'm a gold star gay. I've never even...

Never kiss a girl. When a girl holds my hand, unless it's like my mom, my aunt, I'm like, this is weird. It's uncomfortable. So I knew as a kid, I was straight up. I'm like, I have no interest in women. So we ended up having... We did our very first... It's called a transfer. That's when the embryo is put in. And then you know about 10 to 12 days later if it took. The plan was, let's go back and forth. And let's also go by the ones that are rated the highest for a good chance of having a live birth.

I had two that were significantly higher in ratings than all the other ones between. You had gold star embryos. Gold star embryos. Gold star gay. Gold star gay. I'm not a competitive person when it comes to embryos. I'm very competitive. So we decided, let's go with Brian. And then we did. And the good news about it is they teach you the stats and the facts. And it's like, let's hope for the best. We only made it to about eight and a half or nine weeks, which was really upsetting because that means you're dealing with a miscarriage, which is probably even harder on your surrogate because

It has nothing to do with them. It's my embryo. So it had to do with genetics and it had to do with science. At that point, you're talking about something that is the size of a blueberry or smaller. Well, and miscarriages are very common in all forms of pregnancy. And I don't think that's really spoken about very much. But I mean, miscarriages are a very common occurrence in the germ.

journey of getting pregnant, whether it be natural or through these ultra planned scientific methods, which I just want to remind the listener, this is like the optimal planned

Like, you know, to go through all of this, you desperately want to be parents, which I think is such a beautiful thing. Okay. So let's get back. So she miscarries. Our embryo did not make it as a way that we look at it because we've learned so much about miscarriages from this. Your embryo did. Yeah. And the reason we've learned so much about it is...

It's never talked about. And like, it is heartbreaking also for the expectant father. And it has nothing to do with anybody. And from a nature standpoint, it's telling you this one was not going to make it to birth. So, and that's all there is to it. And we had to like psychologically be like, okay, well, we're going to have to wait about four or five months and try again. And so the second try was Hollis's and she has just been a gold star embryo. Is it the same surrogate? Yeah.

Yeah, she's with us. So you put another – so now it's Hollis' turn. Yeah, and we're just a few weeks away from doing the real thing. And do you know the gender? Yeah, we're having a girl. I was going to say, he said she. I picked right up on the she. Now, here's something I'd like to talk about.

Okay. Can I flip the script a little here? Yeah. Yeah. All right, listener. So I'm going to play the role of Jennifer. One of the things that we were talking about last night is when Jennifer and I had dinner is I go by Brian Patrick Flynn. I added my middle name when I became an interior designer as one does. But what I learned last night is – so Jennifer's middle name is Denise, which I think is fascinating because I have a friend back home named Jennifer Denise. Yeah.

Really? Yeah, she's a makeup artist. Because they don't go together necessarily. They don't. And it's not very common. So Jennifer is Jennifer Denise, which I think is a beautiful combo. And it sounds very soap opera-ish to me. I love it. I think it sounds like a very dignified name. But also, I found out that you were Angela Dawn. So you were like Angel of the Morning. Dawning of an Angel. Dawning of an Angel, my mother said, yes. Oh!

What's your mom's name? Judy. This is amazing. Yeah, Judy's a mom's name just like Susan or Kathy. Linda. Linda, Nancy, like a baby. There was a whole episode of Kimmy Schmidt about a baby named Linda. And it was like, that's not a thing. That's not a thing. So now all that to say is the naming process-

Yes. Whoa. So we both have Irish in our family and we wanted an Irish girl's name, but they're so hard to pronounce. Yeah. Like Saoirse, like the actress. So we were like, what about something that you see and is iconically Irish, but isn't necessarily an Irish name? And we just love the idea of turning Clover into a name.

Clover is darling. Oh, it's perfect. What about the last name? We're going to combine our names together. So instead of – one of the things I've noticed is I think it's pretty chic when people have the dash, you know, like Jolie Pitts and stuff like that. Yeah, Jolie Louis Dreyfus. Yeah, it looks cool and you remember it. But I don't know. I also love over the past few years where somebody – one of my friends, Jillian, her name is Jillian St. Charles, and she married a man named Damon Boggess. And they turned her last name into St. Boggess, which I thought was brilliant. Yeah, I have seen that. I think that's –

requires a lot of creativity. Yeah. And it cannot work sometimes. It might visually look ugly. Right. But my last name is Flynn. His is Smith. And you know how there's a blacksmith and there's like a wordsmith? Right. We love the idea of one run on words. So it's going to be capital F and then so Flynn Smith, one word. So she'll have her own last name.

I love that. Yeah? That is precious. It's really thought out. Like, we – there's this Brandi Carlile song called The Mother. And it really – there's some lyrics in it that talk about, like, you were not an accident. Like, we worked really hard to make you exist. And we're those people. Like, we worked really hard at this to make it happen. And, like, this child is going to get all of our attention.

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I think it's fascinating how the effort that LGBTQ plus couples go through to have children. I mean, you have to really, really want this child in the planning and the amount of time that you have to possibly think,

God, maybe this is a bad idea. Maybe I hate my spouse's guts. Right. I mean, you're in and you passed, I mean, a huge amount of time. And so now you have where a lot of the country, big blue cities embrace this idea of planned families and, um,

gay couples, lesbian couples having children and it's very embraced. But you have a big part of the country that is demonizing this as maybe, quote, not a traditional family. And they use that word traditional. I

I hate that word. I hate it. It's a weapon. Even interior design, I hate it. What's traditional? It's not 1743 anymore. Things have changed. Yes. I hate that because I think it's a way to politely, in their mind, politely demean people. Yeah. Because what they don't realize is...

Most of the gay people you know came from what would be perceived as traditional families. So gay people are born in traditional families. And I don't know about you all, but a lot of straight people I know have the most fucked up families I have ever seen in my entire life. Agreed. I can't argue with that, actually. Do you worry with the political climate? Do you have any worry about having to –

gay dads and what your daughter will go through? Have you gotten there yet? Or is Atlanta just so big and blue that it's not even a concern? There's two parts to the answer. In the spring of 2016, we had done a trip with my whole team, some of my closest friends to Iceland after an incredible epic year in 2015. And we went as a celebration. I'm friends with a lot of photographers. And we went over as this incredible experience to take beautiful images and everybody get their

creative juices flowing. We fell in love with Iceland so much that we bought a house there. We bought a house there on the HGTV show House Hunters, which was so... Yeah, I watched it. So we bought our house there. It was before Iceland became a massive thing. So we bought it before the boom. And what happened is that year when everything got so divisive, we were like,

This is a kind of a good backup plan. It is a super feminist, open-minded country. I mean, gay pride in Reykjavik, which is the capital city where we live. Mm-hmm.

like 80% of the country comes to Reykjavik to be there to celebrate because they just look every, they look at everything. It's beautiful. And there's kids and there's business people. And then there's people that work in the club industry. It's just looked as like, if you're left-handed or right-handed, it's not different. Everybody is meant to be who they are. And even when you go to restaurants and clubs there, they'll have the gay pride and the trans flag, the trans pride flag out. But

You'll see you walk in there and it's everybody. I mean, it's people with gigantic families. It's people who are senior, people who are young. And it's celebrated as let's let everybody be who they are. And so to answer your question, it does scare me because we live in Atlanta, which is an incredible melting pot. We love Atlanta because it's so accepting. And on our street, we've got all different ethnicities and religions and people from all different continents who speak multiple languages. And there's different generations in one house.

But it does make me nervous when you get outside of those places where you get to being in the South, which are you technically in the South or not? It's Oklahoma. We consider it the South culturally the South. It wasn't a part of the Confederacy. No. And so that's where it it's not technically the South, but it's definitely culturally the South.

and definitely had a lot of racist roots as evidenced by the Tulsa race riots, which surprisingly we never learned about in school. We never learned about it. We were both educated in Oklahoma, but it was whitewashed. Whoa. Or even Killers of the Flower Moon. But I want to get back to this point that, you know, it is, it's interesting, this whole idea of like these people

Two Americas that we have. When you described Reykjavik and just the tolerance level and how accepting and tolerant everybody is there, that to me is freedom. Yeah. Right. Where everybody tolerates and accepts people freely.

where they are. And I see this intolerance and we live in this red, deeply red state that has banned abortion. And there's a lot of anti LGBTQ rhetoric. There is a lot of anti-trans rhetoric. It's very much being marginalized. And so I'm going to warn you when Clover is born, there is something that happens as a parent that

There is this guilt that consumes you. All the time. That you've never felt before in your entire life. It's not like, oh my God, I forgot to do this. And you have guilt over this. Or maybe you lied to your spouse over something. This is this guilt that just permeates in your brain. And it's ubiquitous from the time you wake up to the moment you go to bed. And you can feel guilty for going to Target for an hour. Right. Something as benign as going to buy supplies. Right.

And so when you start piling on, because I like right now with my kids being 21 and 17, I think I worry. I think like everybody does that listens to this podcast about the political climate, like

God, are these Christian nationalists just going to keep browbeating everybody and just fighting so ugly and we're going to have some crazy president? Are they going to be able to have kids and whatnot? I mean, you're so fortunate that you have a potential escape plan. Yeah, we did it on purpose in case that, because I think it's very real that that could happen. It's very much

It very much freaks me out. I can't watch The Handmaid's Tale. I can't watch it because it doesn't seem so far-fetched. I mean, the way that it's done in that way, I understand it's sensationalized for becoming TV. But yeah, I can't believe that's still a conversation in 2024. I agree. How? I agree. We passed this like 12 years ago. I want these conversations that we just had. In 2024, we have all of this modern science.

We know that people don't choose to be gay. We know that people just love who they love and we should in turn love them. And I want to hear stories like yours and Hollis's where y'all have gone to such a cool, amazing scientific route to bring this clover into the world. And she's got these amazing, posh stories.

Cool dads. Gold star gay dads. Power dads. And I just think it's so cool. And these are the conversations that I want to have. And then like you see this segment of the internet or the news and you're like, what the fuck are those people talking about? Why are they mad about drag queens or whatever? And it just...

I want to always platform and highlight your story and what y'all are doing because I think it's beautiful. I think the more visibility we have too. What about that global ban on surrogacy? Did you see that? No. From the Vatican, I think? Yes. How is that? What? You do not need to tell us anything about morality, Catholic Church. Thanks so much. So I see where you're going, and that's why we have been very, very –

quiet about this because we don't want a bunch of extra noise. We're starting a family. We've done it in a way that a lot of people do when they're cisgendered, heterosexual families. Like we've been planning it all out. And if that means that if things start getting really volatile here, we have a plan B because we want her to have a very...

very hands-on dad experience. And also we want her to see the world. We want her to see people who don't look like her. Yes. Absolutely. She needs to be surrounded by people she can learn from. I think we're on the same page with this. Yes. I have to tell you though, two things. Number one, two gay dads. I mean, I just love gay men more than any other population. Clover is very lucky. So, I mean, I just am like this little girl,

It has so much to be thankful for already. And we were on a plane to LA not long ago. Yep. There were two gay dads on the flight. They had this little girl. We got off the plane. That little girl did not make a peep the entire time with the best traveler I have ever seen. She was maybe six. She was better behaved than pumps on the plane. A hundred percent. I'm not even kidding. She kept to herself. She dropped her earphones one time. She's like, excuse me. You know, and I was like, we got off the plane and we're like, well, obviously you're better behaved if you have gay dads because she was perfect.

I hear that a lot. Also, there's a bunch of tests about things about aptitudes of students. And a lot of children of lesbian moms have this incredible rating of like,

like straight A's, choosing whatever college they want to go to on a full scholarship. And I think a lot of it has to do with you. Scientifically, we have to plan this out. We can't just do it for fun. It can't be a fun night out. Hey, somebody's pregnant. It's like this has to be methodically planned out. Right. And I think that might have a lot to do with it. And I feel like I want her to be around people who are going to accept her. So I'm happy to live in Atlanta. But if things do change, as they have been for a while now, we do have a backup plan.

Well, Pumps and I are wonderful aunts, believe it or not, as much as we browbeat children. Right. We do like children on a case-to-case basis. Do you like each other's children? Oh, love. Yes, love. Okay. They're friends? Yeah. They're all friends. Our friends are almost like siblings. And I adore her children and she adores my children, but we already adore Clover. I want to thank you so much for sharing that because I think it's so cool. I think it's fascinating for us to marvel at modern science and how possible that is. And the whole like...

egg donor, like looking at all of that is really fascinating. It's so cool that we can do that. And I think it's just amazing that you live in a time that you can be a gay man and have and start a beautiful family with a man you love that you married among penguins. Yeah.

It's really beautiful. How many little girls can say that about their dads married with penguins? It's one that we know of. Okay. We have to play had it or hit it. Okay. Oh my God. Welcome to had it or hit it. I would hit it. I hit it every day, sometimes twice a day. Okay. Had it or hit it. Oversized bows on little girl infants.

Hollis is in the next room right now. And this has been a topic we've gone over. As it should be. As it should be. This is a huge thing. I'm going to blanket this with fine print by saying everybody should do whatever they want when it comes to clothing and the way you're going to dress your child up. If it makes you happy and it brings a child joy, you should do it. It's your life and your child's.

There's something about the bows on the newborns that it's so – it's disproportionate. Like I look at the bow and I forget the baby's even there. Right. And it's just – it's like I don't like the way it looks and I just feel like it's a default setting. I feel like it's a precursor to a Stanley Cup schlepper. I think if your mom puts a bow on you as an infant, 100% by age 10 or 11, you're schlepping around that poison-filled lead bowl.

tote receptacle Stanley Cup. I do. I think it's foreshadowing to a lot of bad habits. So I'm assuming Hollis is purchasing bows for Clover? So when we were first looking a few months ago at things that we wanted to get to have ready during birth, because we're going to have to live in the city that we're having the baby in, which is not Atlanta. We have to fly and do all the paperwork and the legal stuff. One of the fascinating things about

Same-sex couples having a baby. Whoever is not the biological person embryonically has to adopt the baby from you. Oh, I'm telling the lawyer this. So I have to adopt my daughter from Hollis because biologically she's his. So I'm going to absolutely say I've had it. Hollis did in his cart choose some of those bans. Luckily, none of them were huge flowers, but I am banning the bans.

I don't like the band around the head. I'd rather a cute little like small dog hat. Like, you know, when people – A little beanie. Right. A beanie or like a tiny little grown-up person's hat shrunk the size like you put on a little dog. Like because it's costumey. There's something about the big flower. I just don't care for it. But do it if you want. I just don't want it for me. Yeah, you can do it if you want. But –

I just want it in the permanent record that I've had it and I judge it. I've had it and I don't judge it for other people, but I expect other people to judge me if I put it on my child. So I'm going to say had it and not do it. See, I'm a lot pettier person than you are, Brian. I judge. And I'm not judging. I didn't do the little bands on the baby's head because I'm just not that organized. But Emily, when she was two, I would always pull her hair back and put a bow in it. And she would look at me, she'd pull that bow out and she'd throw it at me when she was two years old. So we didn't

Go very far with the best. Okay, last one. Had it or hid it?

celebrities and or known figures that go by their first, middle, and last name. Such as Sarah Jessica Parker or perhaps a fellow named Brian Patrick Flynn. Had it or hit it? Hit it all day long. I did it knowingly. There was one other Brian Flynn in the area that I grew up in, the Fort Lauderdale area of Florida. And

And there was something about the fact that there were two Brian Flins. I was like, I don't like this. And also, Brian is not really a popular name anymore. There's not a lot of Gen Z. You are Gen Z. I don't see any Gen Z's Kylie's age. I don't see any Brian's Kylie's age. I see Kylie's Kylie's age, but they are not spelled the way that Kylie spells her, so she wins. Okay.

I love the three-name thing. And I don't know why Julia Louis-Dreyfus might have set me off on that, but that's also hyphenated. Right. I don't know. I think if you had a really unique name, like Fantasia Barino, there's no need for a middle name. Your name is so spectacular. Right. But I think if your name is just like Brian and Flannery Brian Smith, adding another one makes you a little bit different. Or, you know, like Angela Dawn or Jennifer Denise. Well, there's a meaning

Angela Dawn, Dawning of an Angel, obviously. Yeah, I love that. That's a good story. It is. The dawning. And as our listener has surely experienced each and every time you clap us on, it is nothing short of the clapping of an angel. It's true. It's true. It is a sound from the heavens above. Brian, I cannot thank you enough for coming all the way from Atlanta.

to see your surrogate and then to come see Clover's new aunties. Yes. Angela Dawn and Jennifer Denise. Stay on, join us on Patreon if you want to hear some after show. I'm going to ask Brian more about that room and what type of porn

the porn they had. Everybody knows they want to hear that and I'm going to ask those hard hitting questions on Patreon. Come see us on the Hot Shit Tour. Give us five stars. Pumps, tell them. We will see you next Tuesday or Thursday or both. I'll tell you what I've had it with.